July 23, 2025 • 34 mins
Trauma bonding, a profound and often paradoxical emotional attachment, develops in relationships characterized by a cyclical pattern of abuse and intermittent positive reinforcement. This complex dynamic, where a victim forms a strong emotional connection with their abuser despite experiencing harm, can manifest across various relationship types, including those stemming from adolescent sexual abuse, evolving into toxic adult relationships, and even appearing in the contemporary landscape of "sugar relationships." The transactional core of these "bitter bargains" can, for some, become another layer in a life already burdened by the echoes of past betrayal and unhealed trauma.Adolescent sexual abuse, a deeply traumatic experience, has pervasive and long-lasting implications for mental and physical health. Studies, including those from early 2025, consistently show a significant increase in the likelihood of depression, anxiety, PTSD, and other adverse mental health outcomes in adulthood for survivors. This early trauma can disrupt normal developmental processes, affecting an individual's ability to establish and maintain healthy intimate relationships. Survivors may struggle with trust issues, fear of intimacy, and a heightened vulnerability to being drawn into difficult or abusive partnerships. The brain's response to fear and sexual violence can lead to a "freeze and endure" mechanism, making individuals more susceptible to passive responses in the face of future threats. Furthermore, early trauma experiences can internalize insecure attachment patterns, impacting how individuals perceive and engage in romantic relationships later in life.In toxic relationships, trauma bonding is a hallmark, characterized by stages such as love bombing, gaining trust, criticism, gaslighting, submission, loss of self, and emotional dependence. The abuser's actions create a cycle of emotional dependence, where the victim, feeling depleted and with low self-esteem, struggles to leave. This neurochemical response in the brain, with dopamine released during "good" times and cortisol during "bad," creates an emotional addiction, making it difficult to break free. The power imbalance inherent in abusive dynamics further entrenches the bond.The emergence of "sugar relationships," involving the exchange of financial support or material benefits for companionship, has sparked discussions about their psychological underpinnings and potential risks.
Recent research, including studies from 2025, indicates that openness to sugar relationships is strongly linked to a "short-term mating orientation," where individuals are comfortable with casual, uncommitted sexual relationships. However, a more nuanced picture reveals an indirect pathway connecting early-life experiences to these choices, particularly for women. Women who experienced resource scarcity in childhood may adopt "faster life history strategies," leading to a focus on immediate rewards and a greater openness to sugar relationships. While some individuals report positive and empowering experiences, viewing these arrangements as a means of support and motivation with clear communication and consent, others describe significant risks. The inherently transactional nature of sugar relationships, while seemingly offering control and clear boundaries, can paradoxically become a new arena for trauma to manifest or be re-experienced. For individuals with a history of sexual abuse or toxic relationships, where their value was often tied to what they could provide or endure, the monetary exchange can reinforce feelings of commodification. This can exacerbate existing self-worth issues and lead to a further erosion of boundaries, especially when emotional investment begins to intertwine with financial dependency. The "bitter bargain" here lies in the potential for emotional and psychological costs to outweigh the perceived benefits, echoing the dynamics of past traumas where personal well-being was sacrificed for a form of security or validation. Parallels have been drawn between sugar relationships and transactional sex work, with some participants experiencing similar emotional scars such as shame, guilt, embarrassment, and feelings of being used, vulnerable, anxious, and depressed. The transactional nature, where feelings develop around the promise of money, can negatively impact self-view and morale. While the term "trauma bonding" is not always explicitly used in the context of sugar relationships in the reviewed literature, the descriptions of emotional scars, feelings of being exploited, and the cyclical nature of some arrangements, especially when combined with pre-existing vulnerabilities like financial need and a history of adverse childhood experiences, strongly suggest a potential for dynamics akin to trauma bonding.
The very act of valuing a relationship based on exchange can, for those with a history of trauma, subtly perpetuate the idea that their wort
Recent research, including studies from 2025, indicates that openness to sugar relationships is strongly linked to a "short-term mating orientation," where individuals are comfortable with casual, uncommitted sexual relationships. However, a more nuanced picture reveals an indirect pathway connecting early-life experiences to these choices, particularly for women. Women who experienced resource scarcity in childhood may adopt "faster life history strategies," leading to a focus on immediate rewards and a greater openness to sugar relationships. While some individuals report positive and empowering experiences, viewing these arrangements as a means of support and motivation with clear communication and consent, others describe significant risks. The inherently transactional nature of sugar relationships, while seemingly offering control and clear boundaries, can paradoxically become a new arena for trauma to manifest or be re-experienced. For individuals with a history of sexual abuse or toxic relationships, where their value was often tied to what they could provide or endure, the monetary exchange can reinforce feelings of commodification. This can exacerbate existing self-worth issues and lead to a further erosion of boundaries, especially when emotional investment begins to intertwine with financial dependency. The "bitter bargain" here lies in the potential for emotional and psychological costs to outweigh the perceived benefits, echoing the dynamics of past traumas where personal well-being was sacrificed for a form of security or validation. Parallels have been drawn between sugar relationships and transactional sex work, with some participants experiencing similar emotional scars such as shame, guilt, embarrassment, and feelings of being used, vulnerable, anxious, and depressed. The transactional nature, where feelings develop around the promise of money, can negatively impact self-view and morale. While the term "trauma bonding" is not always explicitly used in the context of sugar relationships in the reviewed literature, the descriptions of emotional scars, feelings of being exploited, and the cyclical nature of some arrangements, especially when combined with pre-existing vulnerabilities like financial need and a history of adverse childhood experiences, strongly suggest a potential for dynamics akin to trauma bonding.
The very act of valuing a relationship based on exchange can, for those with a history of trauma, subtly perpetuate the idea that their wort
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Podcasting since two thousand and five.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
This is the King of Podcasts Radio Network, Kingopodcasts dot com.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Some sugar babies take that tragic trip down through trauma,
the toxic relationships to something transactional. We're all a little
depraved and debaucherous. Here is the King of Podcasts. Welcome
(00:28):
to the program. This is Depraved and the Bochers, and
I am King of Podcasts here with you. I appreciate
all of you joanted me here on the program and
listen to the show on a regular basis. I really, however,
you found this show, whether it's me talking about Bonnie Blue,
Andrew Tait and all these other crazy people in the
world of the praise for Depravity of the Bachery, thank
you for finding the show. I mean it. It means
(00:51):
a lot to me that this little show could get
out to so many people, especially a lot of young
people that I see when I look at the numbers
and how this show's perform I'm very pleasantly happy and
surprised and thrilled that some of you have really caught
on to this show and I have been listening to it.
We thank you for that. I really mean that. From
the bottom of my heart. It means a lot to me.
(01:15):
We're going to go back to several weeks ago. There
was an episode that I did called Sugar Daddy, Sugar
Babies and the New Normal of Profit based Dating. So
this was two weeks ago on the program that I
talked about a young lady in named Margot Graf, and
I talked about how, at thirty three years old, she
is an actress, model, entrepreneur, self proclaimed quint of receiving
(01:40):
and she's receiving between sixteen and seventeen thousand dollars a
month in allowances and lavish gifts among a boyfriend and
several sugar daddies. So I went into the story explaining
the point about a trauma that there are a number
(02:00):
and of course we can't put a number on ads
to how many sugar babies are out there that are
in these sugar relationships that come from a significant traumatic background,
that have gone through a considerable amount of sexual trauma,
where trauma bonding comes in and sugar relationships can be
tied into trauma bonding. That is a thing too. So
(02:24):
I want to bring all that together and make the point.
So there are several things to get into and explain
what happens here. So I'm going to go back to
her story and playback as an example of what we're
gonna talk about tonight, those sugar relationships. First of all,
(02:47):
the interest into sugar relationships. There was a recent study
that came out from Hungary that had three hundred and
twelve participants. They were looking at the psychological factors that
influence people's openness to sugar relationships and that the attitudes
aren't random but are shaped by deep rooted psychological strategies
to develop in response to early life experiences. And part
(03:09):
of that can be that I've talked about plenty of
times in this program is where it comes from with
a young woman that the size of the biggest sugar
baby and what her background comes from. If she had
a fatherly figure, I mean not a father, but someone
who's a dominant figure that could serve as a role
model for her to fall on the footsteps of finding
(03:30):
someone that is like that fatherly figure that shared love, security,
safety and was just there for them like it was
just a wall of safety and security and love. That
is really that's the attachment of hope father to their
daughter and their love for each other and how they
(03:51):
are with each other, with the mom also in playing.
So one of the studies' most significant findings is that
openness and sugar relationships is primarily linked to what researchers
call short term mating orientation, referring to a psychological tendency
to be comfortable with casual sexual relationships who seek variety
romantic partners rather than focusing on long term commitment. Because
(04:12):
of the trauma they might have come through to get
to this point, that's why they do not want to
go state into any commitment, which means take away any
possibility of them finding a long term relationship that could
lead to marriage early on in life. Maybe children may
be able to have your family all that, throw that
away because it's not going to be possible if this
is the plan of a woman decides to go into
(04:33):
this route and find someone short term, friends of benefits,
or just whatever. So, people with a short term mating
orientation tend to be more open to casual sex, are
comfortable with multiple partners, open relationships, and don't necessarily view
sex as requiring emotional attachment or long term commitment. And
this psychological orientation appears to be the strongest predicure of
(04:54):
attitudes towards sugar relationships that these arrangements appeal to individuals
who are already comfortable with less traditional relationship structures. What
you got to think about is how broken down in
the normal course of events that a woman goes through
where she decides he's happy to be in casual sex
(05:16):
with somebody, have multiple partners, and doesn't get emotional or
feel attached to anybody during sex. Some do, but they're
saying they're not for the initial onset. So the research
community has been debating about whether sugar relationships should be
considered short term or long term maating strategies, but the
evidence strongly suggests they align more with closely with short
(05:40):
term approaches to relationships. But now here's the thing too,
there are men out there, the toxicity that they bring
because of whatever traumatic events that they might have brought
these two together, because the interest for the man with
that woman based on if they didn't have a motherly
thing to fall back on, to have someone that will
(06:04):
nurture them, love them and give them the appreciation and
the care that they're looking for if they can't know
what that's like or have had any experience and their
own relationships with anybody sexually. Then they have their own
issues with emotional attachment or long term com incies. Then
(06:26):
there's the case where the mother is not completely attached
to the child, to the son, and there's an emotional
attachment the detachment there that I think that John Bowlby
kind of studies, right, anxious attachment strategies, these things that
go on. And then there are men if they do
not have that nurturing aspect from the mother, nor do
(06:46):
they have that sexual experience from a young age, you know,
in their teens, twenties and so on, and they're not familiar.
Then they go into the real world not knowing that
they'll go into a structure where they'll go into a
short term meaning standpoint because that's where they are. They'll
(07:09):
go with short term mating strategies because they're just trying
to find their way. I can tell you that, first
of all, I can put my hand up and say
that I have been into short term mating strategies because
from my end, I've just been trying to find my
way just to get past a couple of dates, because
I have never experienced in my years what a long
(07:29):
term relationship is like. Never happened. That's the reason I
talk about this right here because I have experienced that.
So from the man's standpoint, I can speak about it,
and I can pass those long to other men out there.
Hopefully they'll understand what I'm saying here, and they they'll
find a way to go ahead and work on their
own cells to understand confront what they're dealing with, find
(07:54):
the trauma that's dealing with them. It might not be
spending the silvery tragic, but like there's a trauma inside
of you, you need to be able to go and
address it, accept it, and confront it. Exceptance of confrontations
act it is helpful, and it took me a long
time to get to that point. I want other men
out there if you feel in the same way, that's
something that's got to be done too. But the thing
(08:15):
is too, is that where they talk about there are
people that want to have the feel comfortable with multiple
partners or not looking at sex as requiring emotional attachment
or long term commitment. But part of it is that
if you're going to be in a short term mating strategy,
if you're going to go into somebody that's a friends
with benefits or whatever it is. Yes, you cannot let
(08:35):
your heart get caught up in this. But then the
people that are broken from all this emotionally broken. We
know that on both sides, men and women will go
ahead and abuse if someone is vulnerable because of what
they've gone through. And for most women, they're not the
ones that are necessarily overly narcissistic or controlling or manipulative.
They are, don't get me wrong. They can be and
(08:58):
men can be the same way. But then at the
same time, women can find the outlet to go ahead
and be in a sugar relationship to get what they
want from it because that's where they feel like of
the trauma they've gone through, because of the toxic relationship
they've gone through as well, they feel like, well, it's
their beauty and their presence and who they are that's
enough for someone to go ahead and support them and
(09:21):
give them what they want. So let's go back to
Margo Graft's interviews. We talked about two weeks ago on
the program about the new normal of profit based dating.
So I'm gonna go and play back the interview she
did with the Cole Walters on their media. Let's go
back to that and play a little clip from that.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Ohs or fat or like, because I wasn't looking for love,
but this is a thing for sure. So you know,
a lot of money. Also, like people with a lot
of money, they are they are desensitized to the normal.
They like to feel, they need to feel something.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Okay, so let's get into what it is. So you
find someone, you get them what is is. Well, let's
move along here. Also, an only fans compression of the
show also makes in this podcast, you know, because this
is it's not blowing my mind.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
I know some people listening. There's so much between like
this and only fans right, like yes through right, because
it's normalized.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
There are Instagram girls who literally post pictures of themselves.
After I got my body done, I was in a
relation if you had done what I might need to
get in LiPo done during the pandemic, when like I
had all the time in the world to heal, which
was great, And it went from like, I mean, I
built my body so that if you saw me naked
on screen in a movie, you would never know that
I had my body done. I wanted everything like so naturally, classy, elegant, tasteful,
(10:40):
and timeless, right, like I can say that you're not
going to like change one hundred percent. And he said
he was unattracted to me, and I'm like, bro, I
look the best I've ever looked in my life. Dog.
It's so good that I never had kitties like this.
So I got on OnlyFans and I was just doing
Lingerine swim because I was in this swim paget. We
did the thirty eight swimsuit look photo shoots on this patch.
(11:03):
I did like, I was like, I can just sell
my HoTT photos. I don't need to do anything nude
or inappropriate. And I made great money. I only did
it for like six months, but people kept asking for
customs and I just want wow.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah. So remember the mindset for her bad relationship, among
other things we talked about. If you need to go
back to two weeks ago and catch that episode, because
I gave the whole story. I gave you almost an
hour of ourgost story, starting with what she's doing as
a sugar baby for the Sugar Daddy's and where she
(11:39):
has her mindset now, and then going back to what
she said on a previous podcast when she talked about
her trauma which never got discussed on the newer podcast,
and I had to go ahead and connect those two
together because I thought her story it was important for
people to go ahead and hear all that. Yeah, now
(12:01):
back to the story here, it goes into her being
an example of what we're talking about when it comes
to the research, because she didn't necessarily heal from the trauma.
Her way of healing from the trauma was enhancements of
changing herself because she didn't want to be the girl
from Minnesota anymore. It cannot be her. Now that's not
(12:24):
saying that women can't go ahead and evolve and change,
but when you lose your innocence, you lose who you are,
like who you were when you grew up. Then you
kind of lose who your identity was. I mean, you
grow into a new identity, but like there should be
a part of you that still stays intact. I mean
(12:45):
it's not supposed to like some childlike quality, but like
there's something about who you are from growing up and
holding on to who you are. And that's the part
I think that's very important about this now in the
research that I'm talking about here for this story from
Observer Voice about why people are open to sugar relationships
(13:06):
and the psychological meanings behind it, they going to talk
about that. Perhaps the most intriguing finding was the connection
between childhood experiences and adult relationship attitudes. Researchers discovered an
indirect pathway thinking childhood resource scarcity to openness to sugar relationships,
particularly among women. Childhood resource scarcity, now, women who experienced
(13:29):
limited family resources during childhood were more likely to develop
fast life history strategies, which in turn predicted greater openness
to sugar relationships and adulthood. So coming from tough times,
and in those tough times, there could be dysfunction, there
could be a broken home. Like there's nothing that's being
(13:50):
said about why there is that financial issue, but childhood
resource scarcity, that's got to be something to be said.
And think about those that are, you know, the comfort
communities that are just all the children are resource scarce,
thy about it like that. That's why you have women
(14:10):
are out there that are not able to go ahead
and be in a healthy relationship because they're not healthy
themselves emotionally. Women who experienced these limited family resources were
more likely to develop fast life history strategies. As we said,
and that the early experiences of resource scarce that you
might create a lasting psychological orientation towards securing resources relationships. Yeah,
(14:32):
I never have enough of anything, and I don't want
to live poor anymore. I can't go back to that life.
That's the kind of idea the pathway makes evolutionary sense.
They say that women have always faced greater reproductive costs
and risks and making security particularly important for survival and
successful child rearing. That's back of the day, but much
(14:53):
different story now. But the pattern is specific to women,
and researchers couldn't find this among men. The women always
feel like they need to go and hold on to
getting a better life if they didn't have that life.
They want to make a better life for themselves. Or
what is always what we hear from women when they
have a child. I want to I want to give
my child everything I'd ever had. We always you that right,
(15:14):
And it's also just families together always say that. And
what does it mean for understanding modern relationships? Well, Rather
than viewing sugar relationships as purely exploitative or unusual arrangements,
research suggests they may represent adaptive responses to specific developmental
experiences and psychological orientations, right, So don't play this up
(15:36):
that every sugar daddy sugar baby relationship is just some
quirky thing that's just all money based. No, there are
deep intrinsic, emotional, psychological reasons for this, that's what they're saying. Now,
this study doesn't judge relationships as positive or negative, but
they're looking at why some people are drawn to them
while others are not. They're want to help to keep
(15:59):
this perspective, to reduce stigma and promote more nuanced discussions
on this about relationship diversity in modern society. So they
move along and say that they talk to Hungarian university students,
so you gotta go by what background they might have had,
where they came from. And the conclusion, they say that
(16:21):
by connecting childhood experiences to adult relationship strategies through evolutionary psychology,
it helps explain why some individuals are drawn to sugar
relationships while others are not, and that openness to sugar
relationships among women may represent an adaptive response to early
resource scarity. The perspective neither condemns nor endorses these relationships,
(16:41):
but provides a scientific framework for understanding psychological origins well
I'm here to go and talk about the psychological origins
based on Margo's story and based on other things we're
learning about this. Modern relationship behaviors in general, however novel
they may appear, are deep rooted in psychological processes shaped
by both evolutionary history and individual developmental experiences. But now
(17:06):
let's go into this here. This is why Sage Publications
put that out in a journal that they had on this,
and yeah, take a look at it again. Observer Voice
dot Com put the story out about there titled why
some people are open to sugar relationships to modern psychology
behind modern dating choices. So psychology today talks about this,
the same thing goes the research was done in evolutionary psychology.
(17:32):
The more of this Hungarian story. He looked at the
life history strategy, a concept referring to whether someone tends
to favor long term investment versus immediate reward. Now we
know that men and women kind of fall on that
same trait. Men will probably look for trying to do
things to create long term investment, and that's what they
do when it comes to finding a woman, when it
(17:53):
comes to their careers. When it comes to all this
like yea alpha male. That's all. It is long term
investment versus immediate reward. Childhood experiences of were measured using
the Family Resources to scale assessing perceived adequacy of material
and emotional support during childhood and the Child Unpredictable Unpredictability scale,
which gages how chaotic or unstable participants early environments are.
(18:17):
They're going on the right route here. Then they also
use a scale called perceived vulnerability disease. Whether concerned about
infection might relate to openness and transactional relationships.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
But look at what.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
They're talking about right here. When they're looking at trying
to understand why someone would be susceptible and open to
sugar relationships, it has to do with what their background was.
If it's scarcity, if it's being poor, if it's being destitute,
it's if it's not or obviously love is not enough,
(18:50):
money is everything, or that there was a lack of
material and emotional support during childhood, by the way material
and emotionals support because if they were not taken care of,
looked after, protected these young women, if they were assaulted,
if they were victims of trauma that caused trauma that
(19:12):
never has never been addressed. Honestly going back to the childhood,
because I always think that, you know, each for myself,
you have to find a piece of yourself from your
childhood when things before things happened to you to be
able to go ahead and bring yourself full circle to
healing yourself from your trauma. I believe that wholeheartedly. That's
(19:33):
why I look at it for myself. Back to Margot,
and like I said, the story that she came from
and what she went through is quite expansive. This is
from another podcast that she was on and it's her
where in this part of the conversation she talks about
that she was subjected to softcore porn at a young age,
(19:58):
so there were some issues at home. Emotional material support
got off there in Minnesota where she was, and then
again a move to California. This is after where the
thing was. He was in Minnesota. She was a business
major and he was trying to work her way through.
But at the time time she was in a sorority.
(20:20):
Roerty house had a boy and a boy that was
there that was always kind of taking care of things,
kind of a handy man around the house. She got
into a relationship with him, and this boy was extremely
abusive to her, narcissistic, controlling, manipultive, all the nine. And
then she decided to go ahead and escape overseas for
(20:43):
some international studies towards her degree. So she goes to Europe,
and this is where her story comes in from there.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
So when I was studying abroad in Europe, I was
just numbing the pain away. I was partying. I was
doing everything to, you know, just try and heal myself.
But I was really numbing myself because you're in college, right,
so you're like, I'll just go party all over Europe.
I'll do whatever. And when you're looking for the party,
the party will always find you. Party will always find you.
And especially if you're you know, a privileged white girl
(21:13):
who's also had a very privileged life. You weren't given
any you know, self defense class. You weren't told to
be aware that you were actually a target. You weren't
told that, Hey, when you're always looking for the party
and you're always going with the party and you're into,
you know, the nice things in life, people will actually
use that to bait you well.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
And you're the again material and emotional support that she
did not have and then her approach at what eighteen nineteen,
twenty years old, to heal from her emotional trauma that
she was leaving behind. Completely extricate yourself from the situation,
get her away from Minnesota, small town Minnesota, the Europe
(21:54):
complete culture, shock party, all of that, and again she
sees it, you know what she's getting herself into. Yeah,
she is not prepared for and it's not the right
place for her to find herself in the right mind.
Like gets the idea of recovering. I thinking, well, if
(22:14):
you just go somewhere else, it's skull going to go. Wait.
Well no, Unfortunately, the pattern of abuse that she went
through comes back to find you. And that's what happened here.
So more of her story, let's get the more what
she actually said.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Guard was down because you went to the other side
of the world to feel safe. So all of a
sudden you think you're in a safe spice. Yeah, for sure,
for sure. So that's where I actually met these guys
who were I was in Brussels, Belgium, and they were like, hey,
we're a band, do you want to go on tour
with us? And I was like real life Penny Lane
from almost famous. Yeah, I want to be a bandied.
(22:47):
My cousins are like, you know, we're close to being
excuse me, so I hate smary when I do it
a lot. We're close being billionaires, had private jets. I
was like, my dad works with rock stars. I was like,
this is my life. This is what I meant to do.
Take me away from this hell hole that is my life,
put me on a private jet and let's start the
movie that is my life. And God was like, oh, yeah,
(23:08):
this is going to be a movie for sure. But
they ended up being so they would speak to me
in a French American accent, so they're speaking American in
a French accent. And then I guess so they were like, hey,
ask me all these questions. They are passport blah blah blah.
And I was like, and they were going to take
me on tour with them, on their treat and I
was like, yeah, my dad would total understand if I
just left for a little bit, went on tour and
(23:29):
I would come back like life of a rock star
is I'm down down. I guess they had roofed me
and by the time I blacked back in, I was like,
something is very wrong. I do not feel safe. I
have to get out of here. I don't know what's
going on. There's cops, there's it's I have to leave.
I have to So I grabbed my friend and I
was like, we have to go now. And because Russels, Belgium.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
But I mean like at a like at a festival,
at a bar.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
You're at a bar, a brewery. Pink elephant or something
that it was like a pink elephant I think is
their logo. There are a lot of people there, a delirium, yes,
and now I don't really remember.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
It's a little foggy, sure, sure, So again I mean
not prepared. It's like it was like the nurturing, the mentorship,
helping to raise this young girl to grow up so
that she could be prepared for what the real life
was going to bring to her. So naive tams into play,
(24:26):
which that never goes away and just kind of stays
in the play because she thought she was in a
safe place, she said it. So it was in a
safe place all the way from all this. But again,
that abusive pattern, that pattern of abuse, it follows you.
I don't know why it is, but it's like it's
a kiss men, it's for some people, they just think, oh,
(24:47):
if I just go and just try to push it
deep down inside of me, block it off, block it away,
just ignore it, neglect it, that things will just get better.
It never does. A pattern, and this pattern followed her
all the way to Europe, to Brussels, Belgium for her
to go and get into this thing. And remember, yeah,
(25:07):
I mean, it's unfortunate. She wish she would have known better,
and maybe her friends as well wouldn't have got caught
up with this idea of thinking this band was supposedly
going to go ahead and take them out and have
a great time when they completely lied to her and
had a completely different ulterior motive. And look at the
probably sex trafficker, which is what the probably the plan
was going to be. And who knows if her parents
or anybody else would ever hear from her again. All
(25:29):
this right here says everything you need to know about
why she decided to go into a sugar relationship. Astounding,
but it's true, and that's unfortunate. Now the appeal the
risks of sugar daddy relationships. We go into another study
that came out, and a study from Psychology Today actually
(25:52):
talked about this that says that over three million college
students in the US are considered so called sugar babies.
Let me give you that no again. This is why
I talk about this so much. Three million college students
in the United States are considered so called sugar babies.
That should shock you. These are women that are not
(26:15):
just on seeking or some other sugar douty website. These
are just out there in general. We don't know to
the extent of what they're doing, but they're in transactional relationships.
And that's just counting the ones that we'll say are
so called sugar babies, because we're not even talking about
the women that are out there now you see on TikTok,
on instagramas wherever, or you're just see in person that
(26:36):
maybe they're not necessarily as drawn into a sugar relationship
per se, but the relationship they're trying to be in
is transactional, not too much farther away from being a
sugar baby. And that's also not counting those only fans
models are those that are online showing off their bodies
that if they did find someone to be with, they
(26:57):
will be doing the same thing. They will be looking
for something actionable. Now a study in the Trauma and
Mental Health Report. An interview that they did in this
particular study that was a young lady that they called Emily,
a twenty one year old university student. She needed extra income.
She describes one among several of her experiences with the
(27:19):
sugar daddy, who was not who was married, but again
not uncommon when it happens, and he had a wife
of kids that did not know, so she felt a
little weird about it. She says that being in this
relationship with the sugar daddy was all risky.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
I'm lucky that nothing bad ever did happen. If any
of them had ever had bad intentions, they could have
easily done anything to me. There's a lot of things
that could go wrong. You could get ripped off. It's risky.
You have to be careful, and there's really no way
of knowing. You talk to someone and they seem super
nice and then they end up not being genuine. So
(27:56):
she stopped and said that the impact that the experience
had on herself was quote there were definitely times that
I didn't feel really good about myself afterwards. I would
try to think about this in this way, they're paying
me for my time, not for what I am doing,
but there were times that I would feel kind of used.
Sometimes you do things you don't really want to do
just for the money, and regret is definitely a part
(28:16):
of it. You also lose some autonomy if you aren't
paying for your own stuff anymore. It kind of feels
like your life isn't yours. But then there's that part
where women will try to say, well, they want to
go ahead and be able to say that, well, I
have my own income, and then I just get from
somebody else discretionary income, whatever it might be. So there's
woman that will try to go and turn this around
and say, well, no, I have my money, I have
(28:37):
my life, I can do what I want. But then
they will want money from somewhere else. They don't want
to spend their own money, or rather spend somebody else's money.
So this young girl right here, yeah, she was doing
things where he was on the clock, and she was
basically at the behest of this sugar daddy, and she
didn't feel like she was being herself. They talked to
(28:59):
a marriage and the family therapist, Jessica Stebbins, who counsels
women who have a history of prostitution, and she talked
about this sugar baby trend, saying, quote, the fact is
that many young women get into these relationships for the
same reasons that prostitutes enter their profession. These cases, the
risks are very similar to prostitution, and it is safe
to say that neither the prostitute nor the sugar baby
(29:19):
will come out of the experience free of emotional scars.
But the point is, Jessica, is that we already know
that most of these women, not all, but most already
come in with emotional scars already. All they're doing is intensifying.
These girls express the same emotions and problems as the
girls who were labeled prostitutes did. Shame, guilt, embarrassment, I think, exposed, vulnerable, dirty, anxious,
(29:46):
and depressed. He thinks of the trouble with sugar relationships
is that they do not allow for feelings to develop naturally,
but rather on the promise of money, and it can
affect morale and self view and lead to other negative consequences. Now,
on the other end, one other person they talk to
you named Jordan, says that was very empowering.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
In the end, as long as there is full communication
and consent throughout the entire process. There's nothing wrong with
doing what you can to support yourself to be able
to meet with individuals, create a mutual agreement and have
a very good time. It's a very positive experience and
empowering a best. It shows sugar babies that they have
the drive and motivation to help themselves or even just
to live happily. And there are those women that will say, well,
(30:29):
this is to help, you know, advance of my income
because right now tough times growing up, getting out of
geting into college, or trying to start off in a career, whatever,
it might be that they might do things where if
they have their beauty, they have their youth, then they
will use it to get what they want, purely transactional,
(30:49):
no emotion involved at all. But in some cases there
goes the same thing about possible resource scare that comes
into play. But then I think also it might not
be just necessarily the scarcity. It's also the fact that
there might be things that in the word of those
(31:11):
social media the age of social media that we have
right now, there are so many things that women show
that they have that other women want. I mean, if
you look at a girl of this song on TikTok
or Instagram and you can see, Oh, it's a beautiful woman.
How many comments for the women themselves? Oh where do
you get that outfit? Oh? You look great? Your body
is tea all that women that want to be like
(31:31):
those women. So there is a jealousy or there is
an admiration and what they want to be able to
do to get closer to being like that. Those kind
of things fascinating. I hope that all this makes sense
to everyone out of here when you think about this,
(31:52):
because I really wanted to go and sink in as
much as possible that while there are sugar relationships that
could just be a listen, I'm not gonna knock any
girl that wants to go and make get a little
bit ahead financially until they can find themselves in a
way where they are financially ahead of themselves right and
(32:13):
they have their career, they have their life, they have
what they want. So sometimes if a woman can do that,
all more power to them. But I'm worried about the
ones that are in this and have been vulnerable and
not even been traumatized, and they never handled it because
getting one of these sugar relationships makes things worse. But also, guys,
(32:35):
if you are into this kind of thing right now
and you find girls that you meet from sugar relationships,
I want you to take into account that maybe they
come back from a good list of emotional baggage that
they come up with that you don't know about, and
if you try to understand them, and maybe if you
try to go and help them overcome what they're going through,
(32:58):
what they went through, and bring them out of that,
find a way that you could be feeling the void
that they didn't have growing up in some way kind
of like a follower or a just a brotherly type figure.
You give a little piece of that to yourself to
(33:18):
her to help her overcome what you went through if
you're looking to trying to create some kind of emotional
attachment with her, if that's what you want, because at
this point, I mean, we're not finding a lot of
girls that are willing to go ahead and go through
just beating up and you know, traditional relationships. We're finding
the other other modes and we're finding women in various
(33:42):
situations that they're not just like ready to date. No,
they've come with some emotional baggage most likely, and you
know what more than anything else. There might be things
that you might not know about them, but you know,
we always know that. Oh if they're crazy, oh they
might pray great and bet. Or if it's just the
sex that you're looking for and they're also looking just
(34:03):
from the sex, well, then go along and have the
sexes you want. But if you get help them a
little bit in the long run, that might be helpful.
In the meantime. If you're gonna go ahead and hook
up and get together with a girl that might be
in a sugar relationship with you, if you put a
little effort on them, maybe you need to be a
little to prey and the bochers
Podcasting since two thousand and five.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
This is the King of Podcasts Radio Network, Kingopodcasts dot com.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Some sugar babies take that tragic trip down through trauma,
the toxic relationships to something transactional. We're all a little
depraved and debaucherous. Here is the King of Podcasts. Welcome
(00:28):
to the program. This is Depraved and the Bochers, and
I am King of Podcasts here with you. I appreciate
all of you joanted me here on the program and
listen to the show on a regular basis. I really, however,
you found this show, whether it's me talking about Bonnie Blue,
Andrew Tait and all these other crazy people in the
world of the praise for Depravity of the Bachery, thank
you for finding the show. I mean it. It means
(00:51):
a lot to me that this little show could get
out to so many people, especially a lot of young
people that I see when I look at the numbers
and how this show's perform I'm very pleasantly happy and
surprised and thrilled that some of you have really caught
on to this show and I have been listening to it.
We thank you for that. I really mean that. From
the bottom of my heart. It means a lot to me.
(01:15):
We're going to go back to several weeks ago. There
was an episode that I did called Sugar Daddy, Sugar
Babies and the New Normal of Profit based Dating. So
this was two weeks ago on the program that I
talked about a young lady in named Margot Graf, and
I talked about how, at thirty three years old, she
is an actress, model, entrepreneur, self proclaimed quint of receiving
(01:40):
and she's receiving between sixteen and seventeen thousand dollars a
month in allowances and lavish gifts among a boyfriend and
several sugar daddies. So I went into the story explaining
the point about a trauma that there are a number
(02:00):
and of course we can't put a number on ads
to how many sugar babies are out there that are
in these sugar relationships that come from a significant traumatic background,
that have gone through a considerable amount of sexual trauma,
where trauma bonding comes in and sugar relationships can be
tied into trauma bonding. That is a thing too. So
(02:24):
I want to bring all that together and make the point.
So there are several things to get into and explain
what happens here. So I'm going to go back to
her story and playback as an example of what we're
gonna talk about tonight, those sugar relationships. First of all,
(02:47):
the interest into sugar relationships. There was a recent study
that came out from Hungary that had three hundred and
twelve participants. They were looking at the psychological factors that
influence people's openness to sugar relationships and that the attitudes
aren't random but are shaped by deep rooted psychological strategies
to develop in response to early life experiences. And part
(03:09):
of that can be that I've talked about plenty of
times in this program is where it comes from with
a young woman that the size of the biggest sugar
baby and what her background comes from. If she had
a fatherly figure, I mean not a father, but someone
who's a dominant figure that could serve as a role
model for her to fall on the footsteps of finding
(03:30):
someone that is like that fatherly figure that shared love, security,
safety and was just there for them like it was
just a wall of safety and security and love. That
is really that's the attachment of hope father to their
daughter and their love for each other and how they
(03:51):
are with each other, with the mom also in playing.
So one of the studies' most significant findings is that
openness and sugar relationships is primarily linked to what researchers
call short term mating orientation, referring to a psychological tendency
to be comfortable with casual sexual relationships who seek variety
romantic partners rather than focusing on long term commitment. Because
(04:12):
of the trauma they might have come through to get
to this point, that's why they do not want to
go state into any commitment, which means take away any
possibility of them finding a long term relationship that could
lead to marriage early on in life. Maybe children may
be able to have your family all that, throw that
away because it's not going to be possible if this
is the plan of a woman decides to go into
(04:33):
this route and find someone short term, friends of benefits,
or just whatever. So, people with a short term mating
orientation tend to be more open to casual sex, are
comfortable with multiple partners, open relationships, and don't necessarily view
sex as requiring emotional attachment or long term commitment. And
this psychological orientation appears to be the strongest predicure of
(04:54):
attitudes towards sugar relationships that these arrangements appeal to individuals
who are already comfortable with less traditional relationship structures. What
you got to think about is how broken down in
the normal course of events that a woman goes through
where she decides he's happy to be in casual sex
(05:16):
with somebody, have multiple partners, and doesn't get emotional or
feel attached to anybody during sex. Some do, but they're
saying they're not for the initial onset. So the research
community has been debating about whether sugar relationships should be
considered short term or long term maating strategies, but the
evidence strongly suggests they align more with closely with short
(05:40):
term approaches to relationships. But now here's the thing too,
there are men out there, the toxicity that they bring
because of whatever traumatic events that they might have brought
these two together, because the interest for the man with
that woman based on if they didn't have a motherly
thing to fall back on, to have someone that will
(06:04):
nurture them, love them and give them the appreciation and
the care that they're looking for if they can't know
what that's like or have had any experience and their
own relationships with anybody sexually. Then they have their own
issues with emotional attachment or long term com incies. Then
(06:26):
there's the case where the mother is not completely attached
to the child, to the son, and there's an emotional
attachment the detachment there that I think that John Bowlby
kind of studies, right, anxious attachment strategies, these things that
go on. And then there are men if they do
not have that nurturing aspect from the mother, nor do
(06:46):
they have that sexual experience from a young age, you know,
in their teens, twenties and so on, and they're not familiar.
Then they go into the real world not knowing that
they'll go into a structure where they'll go into a
short term meaning standpoint because that's where they are. They'll
(07:09):
go with short term mating strategies because they're just trying
to find their way. I can tell you that, first
of all, I can put my hand up and say
that I have been into short term mating strategies because
from my end, I've just been trying to find my
way just to get past a couple of dates, because
I have never experienced in my years what a long
(07:29):
term relationship is like. Never happened. That's the reason I
talk about this right here because I have experienced that.
So from the man's standpoint, I can speak about it,
and I can pass those long to other men out there.
Hopefully they'll understand what I'm saying here, and they they'll
find a way to go ahead and work on their
own cells to understand confront what they're dealing with, find
(07:54):
the trauma that's dealing with them. It might not be
spending the silvery tragic, but like there's a trauma inside
of you, you need to be able to go and
address it, accept it, and confront it. Exceptance of confrontations
act it is helpful, and it took me a long
time to get to that point. I want other men
out there if you feel in the same way, that's
something that's got to be done too. But the thing
(08:15):
is too, is that where they talk about there are
people that want to have the feel comfortable with multiple
partners or not looking at sex as requiring emotional attachment
or long term commitment. But part of it is that
if you're going to be in a short term mating strategy,
if you're going to go into somebody that's a friends
with benefits or whatever it is. Yes, you cannot let
(08:35):
your heart get caught up in this. But then the
people that are broken from all this emotionally broken. We
know that on both sides, men and women will go
ahead and abuse if someone is vulnerable because of what
they've gone through. And for most women, they're not the
ones that are necessarily overly narcissistic or controlling or manipulative.
They are, don't get me wrong. They can be and
(08:58):
men can be the same way. But then at the
same time, women can find the outlet to go ahead
and be in a sugar relationship to get what they
want from it because that's where they feel like of
the trauma they've gone through, because of the toxic relationship
they've gone through as well, they feel like, well, it's
their beauty and their presence and who they are that's
enough for someone to go ahead and support them and
(09:21):
give them what they want. So let's go back to
Margo Graft's interviews. We talked about two weeks ago on
the program about the new normal of profit based dating.
So I'm gonna go and play back the interview she
did with the Cole Walters on their media. Let's go
back to that and play a little clip from that.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Ohs or fat or like, because I wasn't looking for love,
but this is a thing for sure. So you know,
a lot of money. Also, like people with a lot
of money, they are they are desensitized to the normal.
They like to feel, they need to feel something.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Okay, so let's get into what it is. So you
find someone, you get them what is is. Well, let's
move along here. Also, an only fans compression of the
show also makes in this podcast, you know, because this
is it's not blowing my mind.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
I know some people listening. There's so much between like
this and only fans right, like yes through right, because
it's normalized.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
There are Instagram girls who literally post pictures of themselves.
After I got my body done, I was in a
relation if you had done what I might need to
get in LiPo done during the pandemic, when like I
had all the time in the world to heal, which
was great, And it went from like, I mean, I
built my body so that if you saw me naked
on screen in a movie, you would never know that
I had my body done. I wanted everything like so naturally, classy, elegant, tasteful,
(10:40):
and timeless, right, like I can say that you're not
going to like change one hundred percent. And he said
he was unattracted to me, and I'm like, bro, I
look the best I've ever looked in my life. Dog.
It's so good that I never had kitties like this.
So I got on OnlyFans and I was just doing
Lingerine swim because I was in this swim paget. We
did the thirty eight swimsuit look photo shoots on this patch.
(11:03):
I did like, I was like, I can just sell
my HoTT photos. I don't need to do anything nude
or inappropriate. And I made great money. I only did
it for like six months, but people kept asking for
customs and I just want wow.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah. So remember the mindset for her bad relationship, among
other things we talked about. If you need to go
back to two weeks ago and catch that episode, because
I gave the whole story. I gave you almost an
hour of ourgost story, starting with what she's doing as
a sugar baby for the Sugar Daddy's and where she
(11:39):
has her mindset now, and then going back to what
she said on a previous podcast when she talked about
her trauma which never got discussed on the newer podcast,
and I had to go ahead and connect those two
together because I thought her story it was important for
people to go ahead and hear all that. Yeah, now
(12:01):
back to the story here, it goes into her being
an example of what we're talking about when it comes
to the research, because she didn't necessarily heal from the trauma.
Her way of healing from the trauma was enhancements of
changing herself because she didn't want to be the girl
from Minnesota anymore. It cannot be her. Now that's not
(12:24):
saying that women can't go ahead and evolve and change,
but when you lose your innocence, you lose who you are,
like who you were when you grew up. Then you
kind of lose who your identity was. I mean, you
grow into a new identity, but like there should be
a part of you that still stays intact. I mean
(12:45):
it's not supposed to like some childlike quality, but like
there's something about who you are from growing up and
holding on to who you are. And that's the part
I think that's very important about this now in the
research that I'm talking about here for this story from
Observer Voice about why people are open to sugar relationships
(13:06):
and the psychological meanings behind it, they going to talk
about that. Perhaps the most intriguing finding was the connection
between childhood experiences and adult relationship attitudes. Researchers discovered an
indirect pathway thinking childhood resource scarcity to openness to sugar relationships,
particularly among women. Childhood resource scarcity, now, women who experienced
(13:29):
limited family resources during childhood were more likely to develop
fast life history strategies, which in turn predicted greater openness
to sugar relationships and adulthood. So coming from tough times,
and in those tough times, there could be dysfunction, there
could be a broken home. Like there's nothing that's being
(13:50):
said about why there is that financial issue, but childhood
resource scarcity, that's got to be something to be said.
And think about those that are, you know, the comfort
communities that are just all the children are resource scarce,
thy about it like that. That's why you have women
(14:10):
are out there that are not able to go ahead
and be in a healthy relationship because they're not healthy
themselves emotionally. Women who experienced these limited family resources were
more likely to develop fast life history strategies. As we said,
and that the early experiences of resource scarce that you
might create a lasting psychological orientation towards securing resources relationships. Yeah,
(14:32):
I never have enough of anything, and I don't want
to live poor anymore. I can't go back to that life.
That's the kind of idea the pathway makes evolutionary sense.
They say that women have always faced greater reproductive costs
and risks and making security particularly important for survival and
successful child rearing. That's back of the day, but much
(14:53):
different story now. But the pattern is specific to women,
and researchers couldn't find this among men. The women always
feel like they need to go and hold on to
getting a better life if they didn't have that life.
They want to make a better life for themselves. Or
what is always what we hear from women when they
have a child. I want to I want to give
my child everything I'd ever had. We always you that right,
(15:14):
And it's also just families together always say that. And
what does it mean for understanding modern relationships? Well, Rather
than viewing sugar relationships as purely exploitative or unusual arrangements,
research suggests they may represent adaptive responses to specific developmental
experiences and psychological orientations, right, So don't play this up
(15:36):
that every sugar daddy sugar baby relationship is just some
quirky thing that's just all money based. No, there are
deep intrinsic, emotional, psychological reasons for this, that's what they're saying. Now,
this study doesn't judge relationships as positive or negative, but
they're looking at why some people are drawn to them
while others are not. They're want to help to keep
(15:59):
this perspective, to reduce stigma and promote more nuanced discussions
on this about relationship diversity in modern society. So they
move along and say that they talk to Hungarian university students,
so you gotta go by what background they might have had,
where they came from. And the conclusion, they say that
(16:21):
by connecting childhood experiences to adult relationship strategies through evolutionary psychology,
it helps explain why some individuals are drawn to sugar
relationships while others are not, and that openness to sugar
relationships among women may represent an adaptive response to early
resource scarity. The perspective neither condemns nor endorses these relationships,
(16:41):
but provides a scientific framework for understanding psychological origins well
I'm here to go and talk about the psychological origins
based on Margo's story and based on other things we're
learning about this. Modern relationship behaviors in general, however novel
they may appear, are deep rooted in psychological processes shaped
by both evolutionary history and individual developmental experiences. But now
(17:06):
let's go into this here. This is why Sage Publications
put that out in a journal that they had on this,
and yeah, take a look at it again. Observer Voice
dot Com put the story out about there titled why
some people are open to sugar relationships to modern psychology
behind modern dating choices. So psychology today talks about this,
the same thing goes the research was done in evolutionary psychology.
(17:32):
The more of this Hungarian story. He looked at the
life history strategy, a concept referring to whether someone tends
to favor long term investment versus immediate reward. Now we
know that men and women kind of fall on that
same trait. Men will probably look for trying to do
things to create long term investment, and that's what they
do when it comes to finding a woman, when it
(17:53):
comes to their careers. When it comes to all this
like yea alpha male. That's all. It is long term
investment versus immediate reward. Childhood experiences of were measured using
the Family Resources to scale assessing perceived adequacy of material
and emotional support during childhood and the Child Unpredictable Unpredictability scale,
which gages how chaotic or unstable participants early environments are.
(18:17):
They're going on the right route here. Then they also
use a scale called perceived vulnerability disease. Whether concerned about
infection might relate to openness and transactional relationships.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
But look at what.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
They're talking about right here. When they're looking at trying
to understand why someone would be susceptible and open to
sugar relationships, it has to do with what their background was.
If it's scarcity, if it's being poor, if it's being destitute,
it's if it's not or obviously love is not enough,
(18:50):
money is everything, or that there was a lack of
material and emotional support during childhood, by the way material
and emotionals support because if they were not taken care of,
looked after, protected these young women, if they were assaulted,
if they were victims of trauma that caused trauma that
(19:12):
never has never been addressed. Honestly going back to the childhood,
because I always think that, you know, each for myself,
you have to find a piece of yourself from your
childhood when things before things happened to you to be
able to go ahead and bring yourself full circle to
healing yourself from your trauma. I believe that wholeheartedly. That's
(19:33):
why I look at it for myself. Back to Margot,
and like I said, the story that she came from
and what she went through is quite expansive. This is
from another podcast that she was on and it's her
where in this part of the conversation she talks about
that she was subjected to softcore porn at a young age,
(19:58):
so there were some issues at home. Emotional material support
got off there in Minnesota where she was, and then
again a move to California. This is after where the
thing was. He was in Minnesota. She was a business
major and he was trying to work her way through.
But at the time time she was in a sorority.
(20:20):
Roerty house had a boy and a boy that was
there that was always kind of taking care of things,
kind of a handy man around the house. She got
into a relationship with him, and this boy was extremely
abusive to her, narcissistic, controlling, manipultive, all the nine. And
then she decided to go ahead and escape overseas for
(20:43):
some international studies towards her degree. So she goes to Europe,
and this is where her story comes in from there.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
So when I was studying abroad in Europe, I was
just numbing the pain away. I was partying. I was
doing everything to, you know, just try and heal myself.
But I was really numbing myself because you're in college, right,
so you're like, I'll just go party all over Europe.
I'll do whatever. And when you're looking for the party,
the party will always find you. Party will always find you.
And especially if you're you know, a privileged white girl
(21:13):
who's also had a very privileged life. You weren't given
any you know, self defense class. You weren't told to
be aware that you were actually a target. You weren't
told that, Hey, when you're always looking for the party
and you're always going with the party and you're into,
you know, the nice things in life, people will actually
use that to bait you well.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
And you're the again material and emotional support that she
did not have and then her approach at what eighteen nineteen,
twenty years old, to heal from her emotional trauma that
she was leaving behind. Completely extricate yourself from the situation,
get her away from Minnesota, small town Minnesota, the Europe
(21:54):
complete culture, shock party, all of that, and again she
sees it, you know what she's getting herself into. Yeah,
she is not prepared for and it's not the right
place for her to find herself in the right mind.
Like gets the idea of recovering. I thinking, well, if
(22:14):
you just go somewhere else, it's skull going to go. Wait.
Well no, Unfortunately, the pattern of abuse that she went
through comes back to find you. And that's what happened here.
So more of her story, let's get the more what
she actually said.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Guard was down because you went to the other side
of the world to feel safe. So all of a
sudden you think you're in a safe spice. Yeah, for sure,
for sure. So that's where I actually met these guys
who were I was in Brussels, Belgium, and they were like, hey,
we're a band, do you want to go on tour
with us? And I was like real life Penny Lane
from almost famous. Yeah, I want to be a bandied.
(22:47):
My cousins are like, you know, we're close to being
excuse me, so I hate smary when I do it
a lot. We're close being billionaires, had private jets. I
was like, my dad works with rock stars. I was like,
this is my life. This is what I meant to do.
Take me away from this hell hole that is my life,
put me on a private jet and let's start the
movie that is my life. And God was like, oh, yeah,
(23:08):
this is going to be a movie for sure. But
they ended up being so they would speak to me
in a French American accent, so they're speaking American in
a French accent. And then I guess so they were like, hey,
ask me all these questions. They are passport blah blah blah.
And I was like, and they were going to take
me on tour with them, on their treat and I
was like, yeah, my dad would total understand if I
just left for a little bit, went on tour and
(23:29):
I would come back like life of a rock star
is I'm down down. I guess they had roofed me
and by the time I blacked back in, I was like,
something is very wrong. I do not feel safe. I
have to get out of here. I don't know what's
going on. There's cops, there's it's I have to leave.
I have to So I grabbed my friend and I
was like, we have to go now. And because Russels, Belgium.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
But I mean like at a like at a festival,
at a bar.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
You're at a bar, a brewery. Pink elephant or something
that it was like a pink elephant I think is
their logo. There are a lot of people there, a delirium, yes,
and now I don't really remember.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
It's a little foggy, sure, sure, So again I mean
not prepared. It's like it was like the nurturing, the mentorship,
helping to raise this young girl to grow up so
that she could be prepared for what the real life
was going to bring to her. So naive tams into play,
(24:26):
which that never goes away and just kind of stays
in the play because she thought she was in a
safe place, she said it. So it was in a
safe place all the way from all this. But again,
that abusive pattern, that pattern of abuse, it follows you.
I don't know why it is, but it's like it's
a kiss men, it's for some people, they just think, oh,
(24:47):
if I just go and just try to push it
deep down inside of me, block it off, block it away,
just ignore it, neglect it, that things will just get better.
It never does. A pattern, and this pattern followed her
all the way to Europe, to Brussels, Belgium for her
to go and get into this thing. And remember, yeah,
(25:07):
I mean, it's unfortunate. She wish she would have known better,
and maybe her friends as well wouldn't have got caught
up with this idea of thinking this band was supposedly
going to go ahead and take them out and have
a great time when they completely lied to her and
had a completely different ulterior motive. And look at the
probably sex trafficker, which is what the probably the plan
was going to be. And who knows if her parents
or anybody else would ever hear from her again. All
(25:29):
this right here says everything you need to know about
why she decided to go into a sugar relationship. Astounding,
but it's true, and that's unfortunate. Now the appeal the
risks of sugar daddy relationships. We go into another study
that came out, and a study from Psychology Today actually
(25:52):
talked about this that says that over three million college
students in the US are considered so called sugar babies.
Let me give you that no again. This is why
I talk about this so much. Three million college students
in the United States are considered so called sugar babies.
That should shock you. These are women that are not
(26:15):
just on seeking or some other sugar douty website. These
are just out there in general. We don't know to
the extent of what they're doing, but they're in transactional relationships.
And that's just counting the ones that we'll say are
so called sugar babies, because we're not even talking about
the women that are out there now you see on TikTok,
on instagramas wherever, or you're just see in person that
(26:36):
maybe they're not necessarily as drawn into a sugar relationship
per se, but the relationship they're trying to be in
is transactional, not too much farther away from being a
sugar baby. And that's also not counting those only fans
models are those that are online showing off their bodies
that if they did find someone to be with, they
(26:57):
will be doing the same thing. They will be looking
for something actionable. Now a study in the Trauma and
Mental Health Report. An interview that they did in this
particular study that was a young lady that they called Emily,
a twenty one year old university student. She needed extra income.
She describes one among several of her experiences with the
(27:19):
sugar daddy, who was not who was married, but again
not uncommon when it happens, and he had a wife
of kids that did not know, so she felt a
little weird about it. She says that being in this
relationship with the sugar daddy was all risky.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
I'm lucky that nothing bad ever did happen. If any
of them had ever had bad intentions, they could have
easily done anything to me. There's a lot of things
that could go wrong. You could get ripped off. It's risky.
You have to be careful, and there's really no way
of knowing. You talk to someone and they seem super
nice and then they end up not being genuine. So
(27:56):
she stopped and said that the impact that the experience
had on herself was quote there were definitely times that
I didn't feel really good about myself afterwards. I would
try to think about this in this way, they're paying
me for my time, not for what I am doing,
but there were times that I would feel kind of used.
Sometimes you do things you don't really want to do
just for the money, and regret is definitely a part
(28:16):
of it. You also lose some autonomy if you aren't
paying for your own stuff anymore. It kind of feels
like your life isn't yours. But then there's that part
where women will try to say, well, they want to
go ahead and be able to say that, well, I
have my own income, and then I just get from
somebody else discretionary income, whatever it might be. So there's
woman that will try to go and turn this around
and say, well, no, I have my money, I have
(28:37):
my life, I can do what I want. But then
they will want money from somewhere else. They don't want
to spend their own money, or rather spend somebody else's money.
So this young girl right here, yeah, she was doing
things where he was on the clock, and she was
basically at the behest of this sugar daddy, and she
didn't feel like she was being herself. They talked to
(28:59):
a marriage and the family therapist, Jessica Stebbins, who counsels
women who have a history of prostitution, and she talked
about this sugar baby trend, saying, quote, the fact is
that many young women get into these relationships for the
same reasons that prostitutes enter their profession. These cases, the
risks are very similar to prostitution, and it is safe
to say that neither the prostitute nor the sugar baby
(29:19):
will come out of the experience free of emotional scars.
But the point is, Jessica, is that we already know
that most of these women, not all, but most already
come in with emotional scars already. All they're doing is intensifying.
These girls express the same emotions and problems as the
girls who were labeled prostitutes did. Shame, guilt, embarrassment, I think, exposed, vulnerable, dirty, anxious,
(29:46):
and depressed. He thinks of the trouble with sugar relationships
is that they do not allow for feelings to develop naturally,
but rather on the promise of money, and it can
affect morale and self view and lead to other negative consequences. Now,
on the other end, one other person they talk to
you named Jordan, says that was very empowering.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
In the end, as long as there is full communication
and consent throughout the entire process. There's nothing wrong with
doing what you can to support yourself to be able
to meet with individuals, create a mutual agreement and have
a very good time. It's a very positive experience and
empowering a best. It shows sugar babies that they have
the drive and motivation to help themselves or even just
to live happily. And there are those women that will say, well,
(30:29):
this is to help, you know, advance of my income
because right now tough times growing up, getting out of
geting into college, or trying to start off in a career, whatever,
it might be that they might do things where if
they have their beauty, they have their youth, then they
will use it to get what they want, purely transactional,
(30:49):
no emotion involved at all. But in some cases there
goes the same thing about possible resource scare that comes
into play. But then I think also it might not
be just necessarily the scarcity. It's also the fact that
there might be things that in the word of those
(31:11):
social media the age of social media that we have
right now, there are so many things that women show
that they have that other women want. I mean, if
you look at a girl of this song on TikTok
or Instagram and you can see, Oh, it's a beautiful woman.
How many comments for the women themselves? Oh where do
you get that outfit? Oh? You look great? Your body
is tea all that women that want to be like
(31:31):
those women. So there is a jealousy or there is
an admiration and what they want to be able to
do to get closer to being like that. Those kind
of things fascinating. I hope that all this makes sense
to everyone out of here when you think about this,
(31:52):
because I really wanted to go and sink in as
much as possible that while there are sugar relationships that
could just be a listen, I'm not gonna knock any
girl that wants to go and make get a little
bit ahead financially until they can find themselves in a
way where they are financially ahead of themselves right and
(32:13):
they have their career, they have their life, they have
what they want. So sometimes if a woman can do that,
all more power to them. But I'm worried about the
ones that are in this and have been vulnerable and
not even been traumatized, and they never handled it because
getting one of these sugar relationships makes things worse. But also, guys,
(32:35):
if you are into this kind of thing right now
and you find girls that you meet from sugar relationships,
I want you to take into account that maybe they
come back from a good list of emotional baggage that
they come up with that you don't know about, and
if you try to understand them, and maybe if you
try to go and help them overcome what they're going through,
(32:58):
what they went through, and bring them out of that,
find a way that you could be feeling the void
that they didn't have growing up in some way kind
of like a follower or a just a brotherly type figure.
You give a little piece of that to yourself to
(33:18):
her to help her overcome what you went through if
you're looking to trying to create some kind of emotional
attachment with her, if that's what you want, because at
this point, I mean, we're not finding a lot of
girls that are willing to go ahead and go through
just beating up and you know, traditional relationships. We're finding
the other other modes and we're finding women in various
(33:42):
situations that they're not just like ready to date. No,
they've come with some emotional baggage most likely, and you
know what more than anything else. There might be things
that you might not know about them, but you know,
we always know that. Oh if they're crazy, oh they
might pray great and bet. Or if it's just the
sex that you're looking for and they're also looking just
(34:03):
from the sex, well, then go along and have the
sexes you want. But if you get help them a
little bit in the long run, that might be helpful.
In the meantime. If you're gonna go ahead and hook
up and get together with a girl that might be
in a sugar relationship with you, if you put a
little effort on them, maybe you need to be a
little to prey and the bochers
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