SPECIAL SERIES ==> The Right Amount of Emails to Send! (Relevancy = Frequency)📬 <== | BATHROOM Break #77 COLLAB: The Marketing Millennials + Do This, Not That | 428

Everyone thinks they’re sending too many emails, but according to Jay Schwedelson and Daniel Murray, the truth is you’re probably not sending enough. In this Bathroom Break episode, the duo dives into the myths around email frequency, timing, and those dreaded unsubscribes. They share hot takes, real data, and a few caffeine-fueled truths about what really keeps your emails in the inbox (and your audience engaged).

Follow Daniel on LinkedIn and check out The Marketing Millennials podcast for sharp, no-fluff marketing insights. Subscribe to Ari Murray’s newsletter at gotomillions.co for sharp, actionable marketing insights.

Best Moments:

(01:05) Jay admits to skipping a VIP dinner for room service and honesty wins the night

(03:12) Why sending more emails actually improves open rates and inbox placement

(06:40) The myth of the “best day and time” to send emails and why variety wins

(09:22) How AI tools can now auto-time your email sends to each subscriber’s habits

(13:00) Unsubscribes aren’t bad—they can be a sign your content finally stood out

(16:44) Relevancy and frequency are a power couple—great content earns more sends

(19:55) Daniel shares the real cost of parenting on six Celsius a day

Check out our 100% FREE + VIRTUAL EVENTS! ->

Guru Conference - The World's Largest Virtual EMAIL MARKETING Conference - Nov 6-7!

Register here: www.GuruConference.com

ㅤ

Check out Jay’s YOUTUBE Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@schwedelson

Check out Jay’s TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@schwedelson

Check Out Jay's INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/jayschwedelson/

ㅤ

MASSIVE thank you to our Sponsor, Marigold!!

Email chaos across campuses, branches, or chapters? Emma by Marigold lets HQ keep control while local teams send on-brand, on-time messages with ease.

Podcast & GURU listeners: 50 % off your first 3 months with an annual plan (new customers, 10 k-contact minimum, terms apply).

Claim your offer now at jayschwedelson.com/emma

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome to a new specialseries called the Bathroom break.
That extra 10 minutes youeither have to listen to marking
tips or use the bathroom. Orboth. But I don't recommend both.
But that's your choice.
This collab is going to besuper fun. We have Daniel Murray
from the MarketingMillennials, and me, Jay Schwedelson
from the do this, not thatpodcast and subjectline.com each
episode in the series, we aregoing to go over quick tips about

(00:25):
different marketing topics.And if you want to be in the bathroom,
fine. Just don't tell us aboutit. Thanks for checking it out.
We are back with anotherepisode of the Bathroom Break. I
am here with the ConferenceHopper. He just went to a huge conference,
which is like the conferencesoff conferences had three talks.

(00:48):
He's still running on Celsius.
Wait, wait. You die. You die.So I walk by a booth, and I see these
people that I work with, andthey go, jay, we want to invite you
to this VIP dinner tonight.You know, we'd love for you to come.
And I'm such a jerk. VIPdinner. I sound like such a tool
that I just said that. Andthey go, will you come? And I go,
actually, I'm gonna lie to youand tell you I have another dinner,

(01:09):
but I'll be in my room hidingout. And the guy's like, you can't
actually tell us that you'resupposed to lie. I'm like, I don't
care.
I mean, you should have said,if you listen to any of my content,
you know, I put that outpublicly, that I'm not gonna go to
any d. Yeah, it's amazing.
At least you told the truth.

(01:30):
That's a start.
Listen, chicken wing roomservice is underrated. What are we
talking about?
I wanted to ask you becauseyou have been talking about this
for a long time, and I thinkyou have a take on it that I think
people should know about. Butwith emails, like, how many emails
should I send? Like, sendingvolumes. The holiday season's coming.

(01:50):
What should I do with my email list?
All right, so in general,everybody thinks they send too much
to their list. And I don'tcare if you're in a boring B2B industry.
You're in a nonprofit. You'rein a consumer. You're direct to consumer.
I don't care. You're actuallynot sending enough email. I know
that sounds ridiculous. Twothings. Number one, you stay in the

(02:11):
inbox. Now, based onengagement that you have in your
database, how often are peopleopening, clicking, interacting with
your emails? The weirdest statof all time is is that those marketers
that send at least five timesper month, okay. Have over a 20%
higher average open rate thanthose that send less. And the reason
being is if you don't generateenough opens and clicks on your overall

(02:32):
email sending, then thereceiving email infrastructures don't
view you as a credible sender.So now the way you stay in the inbox
is by sending out a lot. Buthere's my hot take and I want to
know what you think about thisDaniel, is that I hate when people
say the best day for my emailsis Tuesday at 10am that's our number
one day that's we send out ouremails. And I'll tell you why I hate

(02:52):
that. Because I also likesending emails out at 9pm on a Thursday.
I like sending emails out at2pm on a Sunday. And the reason I
do is not to find what is thebest day and time. I don't care about
that. I believe and I see itin the data that different populations
within your database interactwith email at different times. There
are people that read emails onSunday mornings, people that read

(03:14):
emails at night, people thatread emails on Tuesday morning. So
it's not what is your best dayand your best time. But you need
to be doing sends at all thesedifferent times ongoing to reach
different segments of yourdatabase. And you can't just focus
on that one. What is the bestday and time first?
I mean I'll pick over thatfirst. When someone says best time
and we talk about this all thetime, is usually that a time you

(03:37):
should probably avoid? Becausenow it's become a public knowledge
that that's the best time. ButI also think that the best thing
in marketing is just testing abunch of things. But also now that
AI is coming in the picture,there are some sending platforms
that can put emails in theinbox when people when your audience
best time so that you can useif you have a stronger ESP or marketing

(04:02):
automation platform, theyprobably have features like that
where AI could predict likeput in this email and this inbox
at this time or this personshould have a text message versus
an email. So think about that.But if you don't have something like
that for my emails for themarket millennials, I will send it

(04:25):
on Sunday at 2:30 one day andthen Monday at 3:33 22 one day. And
I'm trying to. I'm really, Ihonestly believe that what matters
more is putting out goodcontent people want to open and having
a good like when you come inthe Inbox, they know it's your name

(04:47):
versus trying to predict likethe perfect email. So like subject
line and who you are showingup in the inboxes. Actually, I think
matters more than send time inmy, my point of view.
I totally agree with you. AndI also think in terms of how much
you are sending, people think,oh, the reason I'm getting unsubscribed

(05:07):
is because I sent out that oneextra email. That's why our unsubscribes
went up. Which is the mostridiculous thing in the world. Okay?
You can't send out less andget more business. The reason you're
getting unsubscribes isbecause people find your content
epically boring. Or whatpeople also don't know about unsubscribes
is sometimes you've donesomething really great and unsubscribes
do not hurt yourdeliverability. They don't cause

(05:28):
you go to the junk folder. Butthe reason I say they're a great
thing is because let's say youlisten to us talk and you get out
this idea, oh, I've nevertested in a month emoji in my subject
line. I don't care if you'reB2B B2C and you say, I'm going to
test an emoji in the subjectline, I'm going to do an A B split,
whatever. And then you hitsend. And when you send it out, you
get this really high openrate, you get this really high click
through rate, but you also getone of the highest unsubscribe rates

(05:50):
you've ever gotten. You mightsay, Jay and Daniel have no idea
what they're talking about.But that's not what happened. What
happened was for the firsttime in a long time, the people in
your database noticed theemail because you stuck an emoji
in there. They opened it up,they checked it all and they said,
you know what? I've changed myjob function. I've changed where
I live. I don't need the localservices anymore. I've changed something.
I'm not a fit on this listanymore. Let me unsubscribe. They

(06:12):
unsubscribe because you stoodout for the first time in forever.
So it's a good thing that yougot the unsubscribe. Don't get turned
off about sending out morebecause of ridiculous metrics.
Yeah, I agree. Because Isometimes get unsubscribes that say,
hey, Daniel, I like you said,I changed jobs and could you put
me on it? I Actuallysubscribe, resubscribed with my new

(06:35):
email. Or I like, oh, hey,Daniel, your content's great, but
my inbox is, like, busy. I'msorry, I need to. Like, that happens
all the time, but it's better.But also, I truly believe you need
to get closer to yourcustomer. And the closer you get
to your, like, real audienceis better than having people go off

(06:58):
your list. So the people, theraving fans you are, you should care
about. And if people don'twant to be unless they can resubscribe
later, don't worry about thosepeople are leaving. But I do agree
that if you're sending moreemails with bad content, that's bad.
That's what we're not saying.Like, don't send an email just to
send an email. Send an emailthat is above average in the inbox,

(07:20):
but send more emails that areabove average. Good content that
people want that arepersonalized to them. And personalization
doesn't have to mean, hey,Daniel, hey, whatever personality
mean the contents personalizedto them. The whatever's in there
is made for them. That's whatI mean by personalized.
No, I'm glad you called thatout, because sometimes I say this

(07:42):
and I forget to say the mostimportant part, which is relevancy
and frequency are marriedtogether, right? If you're sending
out relevant, engaging stuffthat's good for that person, you
have the license to send outstuff. I wish Daniel sent me your
newsletter every single daybecause it's awesome content, right?
So it's all about, are youbeing relevant? If you're being relevant,

(08:03):
you could be more frequent. Ifyou're being irrelevant, then you
suck and you should send outless. All right, before we wrap up
here, Daniel, I want to knowsomething. You've now been on the
daddy circuit here for a fewmonths now, and you're operating
with less sleep. What is that?Like, what is going on with you?
Are you just miserable interms of interacting with other humans?

(08:23):
What is your deal now? Thereare no sleep, man.
I wouldn't say miserable, butthe caffeine intake is at Jay's level
now, where before I was at 1Celsius per day, now it's like 5
or 6 going. So I think thecaffeine intake has gone up. And
also, yeah, I don't getgrumpy, but I notice it like, the

(08:46):
headache levels go up, thebody aches go up. So I'm just. I'm
just saying, like, that we'llget through this period. He'll eventually
sleep more than four hours. Atone time.
So no, it never happens again.It's over. Because then you get old
like me and you just can'tsleep anymore. So that's it. That's
what happened. Your sleepingtime is over. I'm envious of people,

(09:07):
like, sleep till, like, 11 o'.Clock. I'm like, how do you do that?
People probably slept throughthis episode, but they shouldn't.
And they also should go andfollow the Marketing Millennials
podcast, the greatest podcastthat's ever been created. Leave Daniel
a review. He deserves this.He's a great dude.
Ridiculousness, but also, guruconference is coming up, so everybody
go register. Nicole Kidman.

(09:30):
What about yours?
Mine's Halloween Eve, so ifyou want to come show up in costumes,
it's markingland10marketingland.com. Come on,
hang out.
Marketingland.com it is free.It is virtual. I'll be there. Daniel
will be there. It's going tobe bunkers. All right, we'll see
you at the next one. Daniel.Come on, man. I got to get back to

(09:55):
work. Get out of there. Allright, while he's still in there.
This is Jay. Check out mypodcast, do this, not that, for Marketers.
Each week we share reallyquick tips on stuff that can improve
your marketing and hope yougive it a try. Oh, here's Daniel.
He's finally out.
Back from my bathroom break.This is Daniel. Go follow the Market
Millennials podcast, but alsotune into this series. It's once

(10:16):
a week, the Bathroom Break. Wetalk about marketing tips that we
just spew out. And it could beanything from email, subject line
to any marketing tips in theworld. We'll talk about it. Just
give us a. A shout on LinkedInand tell us what you want to hear.
Peace out.