June 18, 2024 • 58 mins
What is your Earth Archetype? Take the Quiz
!https://quiz.eartharchetypes.com/
Filmmaking has a powerful effect on cultures worldwide. It shapes the conversations we have, what we perceive as true, memes and buzz words we circulate, and more. Heck, it got Americans to wear seatbelts.
Climate has been noticeably absent even though we’ve known it’s been affecting our lives for over 50 years. What’s getting in our way? And what’s possible when we address that?
Join Heather Fipps and I as we explore these questions, stakes, and solutions.
You can also join us at the Hollywood Climate Summit June 24-28, 2024.
Heather Fipps is a co-founder and executive producer of the Hollywood Climate Summit and Program Director of The Redford Center where she cultivates opportunities for environmental filmmakers and produces impact-driven media projects and campaigns. As a former Professor of Media and Social Impact at Cal State LA, and Head of Video Production at Mark Bradford’s studio, she has multifaceted experience in film and tv production, experiential learning design, social impact strategy, and community organizing.
Instagram: @heatherfipps
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heather-fipps/
“A solution isn’t a fix. A solution is a process.”
And if you liked this episode,you'll also enjoy my podcast with Metaphor Type Isaias Hernandez. Check it out right here
Connect with the Community:
Watch episodes on YouTube
Check out the Website
Take the What is Your Earth Archetype? Quiz
Follow Earth Archetypes on Instagram
Or how about Earth Archetypes on Facebook
Pick Your Favorite Way to Join
Direct with Earth Archetypes
Through Patreon
Via Buy Me a Coffee
iHeart’s Supporters Club
Apple Podcast’s Subscription
!https://quiz.eartharchetypes.com/
Filmmaking has a powerful effect on cultures worldwide. It shapes the conversations we have, what we perceive as true, memes and buzz words we circulate, and more. Heck, it got Americans to wear seatbelts.
Climate has been noticeably absent even though we’ve known it’s been affecting our lives for over 50 years. What’s getting in our way? And what’s possible when we address that?
Join Heather Fipps and I as we explore these questions, stakes, and solutions.
You can also join us at the Hollywood Climate Summit June 24-28, 2024.
Heather Fipps is a co-founder and executive producer of the Hollywood Climate Summit and Program Director of The Redford Center where she cultivates opportunities for environmental filmmakers and produces impact-driven media projects and campaigns. As a former Professor of Media and Social Impact at Cal State LA, and Head of Video Production at Mark Bradford’s studio, she has multifaceted experience in film and tv production, experiential learning design, social impact strategy, and community organizing.
Instagram: @heatherfipps
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heather-fipps/
“A solution isn’t a fix. A solution is a process.”
And if you liked this episode,you'll also enjoy my podcast with Metaphor Type Isaias Hernandez. Check it out right here
Connect with the Community:
Watch episodes on YouTube
Check out the Website
Take the What is Your Earth Archetype? Quiz
Follow Earth Archetypes on Instagram
Or how about Earth Archetypes on Facebook
Pick Your Favorite Way to Join
Direct with Earth Archetypes
Through Patreon
Via Buy Me a Coffee
iHeart’s Supporters Club
Apple Podcast’s Subscription
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I think another lens to look at this with is the future orientation because we always show our future as apocalyptic it feels and technologically overwhelming and completely disconnected from anything humanity nature like why is that the only future that we can envision that's horribly sad we can dream anything we want as storytellers and what we're dreaming is
(00:25):
the city and technology all around us and nuclear fields and deserts and drought I would really love it if you know our future isn't that man destroyed nature and now suffers the consequences I would love it if we envisioned a future where man really understood the power of nature and we all did it in such a way that it made our lives so much better so much more joy is so much more powerful so much more meaningful
(00:54):
where are those futures welcome to the earth mates podcast together we explore how to find your path from climate anxiety to community action by asking who are you because just like any relationship that matters
(01:17):
so get ready to be raw and real but also playful and silly with me chief relationship officer amber peoples as we discover what's possible through the lens of the five earth archetypes
curiosity and subscription buttons highly encouraged
(01:43):
welcome friend to the podcast today today as we record this session I'm around the 45th parallel and it is the middle of winter so I have this cozy sweater on and I know that Heather is calling in from LA and so she's probably a little bit warmer but I noticed we got the long sleeves and it feels like something that's potentially petable and so I'm feeling connected to all of you out there right now wearing something that has that quality to it
(02:10):
or maybe as you're listening to this it is the middle of summer and you are releasing and having your skin feel the sun and so wherever you are in this moment whatever time of year it is
we're going to take a five-second pause I'm an account silently in my head and have you feel and experience what it is that is around you in this moment as you're listening to this
(02:33):
so take a bait take a beat tune in and here we go
thank you
now as we come back to your listening ears I am delighted to introduce you to the metaphor type Heather Fips
(03:01):
I was first introduced to Heather as she moderated an eye-opening panel at the 2023 Sundance Film Festival called Audiences Want Climate Stories
and the resounding response was yes they sure do we have all kinds of research on it that's super exciting
and she would know for sure too as the senior program director at the Redford Center where she cultivates opportunities for environmental filmmakers and produces impact driven media projects and campaigns
(03:32):
then I got to see her as in full boss mode during the Hollywood climate summit in June where she is a co-founder
so all the things that amazed me about Heather I loved that one of her favorite aspects of the event was bringing the people doing on the ground climate work into Hollywood to share their stories
because self-determination is the key to storytelling stories that show the humanity behind the goals in a time where we don't have clear solutions
(04:03):
so I'm excited to have Heather here today to talk more about the power of story and all things that come about when we view the world from a lens of storytelling and from the metaphor type and specifically within this environmental climate space
so welcome Heather I'm curious to hear if you have another version of this story that you would like to share with folks
(04:24):
oh my gosh well thank you so much for having me Amber I love the work that you're doing and I'm so curious to learn more about the metaphor type through our conversation as well
but yeah I would say you know it was a pleasure meeting you it was just one of these moments where you put your ideas out in the world and people come up to you and share if they resonate
(04:49):
and Amber you shared that what I had programmed and talked about did resonate with you and not only does that mean a lot I mean I think it was just such a great moment of connection to you know
it's the value of convening people so that we feel that we're not alone that we hear ideas that resonate with what we've been maybe thinking about in isolation but now we've built community
(05:12):
and so I'm just really happy to be in community with you today
I'm so grateful thank you so much yeah that peace about community is so important and really at the heart of earth relationship
it's that idea of a lot of where these these types came from was actually listening to physicist Fritov Capra
and he was looking at these different definitions of oneness or belonging and connection
(05:37):
and so you know I love this idea of first of all having that impetus to bring what is in your head to the forefront and and share it and put it out because you never quite know what's going to happen
but then to hear those those places of resonance those places of community is really such a special place and especially places like what you were doing when you were bringing different groups of people together to see what could happen in that synergy
(06:05):
and that brings us kind of to where we started in the in the intro about the storyline about self determination
and I know that that is a big part about you know what you're looking at when you put together the summit and who you chose to have on panels
also when you're at the Redford Center and you're looking at stories that you want to share
and I'm curious what more you can talk about when we look at climate stories
(06:30):
how the heck does self determination fit into that it almost it it doesn't seem necessarily like a no brainer
it feels like there's some leap to take there and I'd love for you to help us with that leap
yeah I think that's a great question I mean there's a couple of different levels that I've come to think about it
you know the first is in being a documentary filmmaker
(06:55):
there's particularly we have a certain vision of what nature documentaries are right and it's usually a film crew goes
films a place goes and tells a story about a place that they're not from and really kind of perpetuates an extractive storytelling model of go in
tell a story about a place that you are not necessarily a part of and there's been some let's not you know
(07:20):
I don't want to tear that down we've needed those stories we've needed those points of connection to visualize nature
to visualize you know other forms of storytelling not even just nature documentaries
but I think that in being a storytelling practitioner you start to really understand the responsibility that you hold
when engaging with someone else's story and you start to ask if you're an ethical filmmaker questions about is this my story to tell
(07:46):
and there's a field wide discussion happening about this that is really important to have and I think it it
on one level leads us to really understand that there are certain stories that exist but who deserves to tell them
and that's a form of self-determination there have been stories that have been told about populations of people
(08:08):
marginalized of all kinds and some of those stories are wrong they've painted false images of people of culture
of gender and self-determination is the ability to say that's not my story my story is this and I want to correct that
through the messages that I'm participating in messages that I'm putting out in the world and so I think self-determination of story origin is really important
(08:36):
I think self-determination also comes through when we talk about climate because for me we've been told the story about climate
we've been told a story about climate from people who are trying to perpetuate harm
we've been told stories that we can't exist without fossil fuel we've been told stories that we're doomed we've been told stories that
(08:57):
there's nothing we as individuals can do or that individually it is all our fault and not the faults of corporations
and I think it's on us to reclaim that story and take our humanity self-determination into our own hands and say
not only is that wrong we are going to self-determine our future and we're going to imagine a better one
(09:19):
and it doesn't have to be what has been designed presented to us it doesn't have to be the story that we are told that we have to exist in
and I think that there's a lot of value in moving particularly as a climate activist into a space of
I'm not just going to accept what I'm being told I'm going to tell a different story to myself so that I can keep going I'm going to tell a different story
(09:45):
so that the people that I know need to be involved in this conversation who aren't here have a way to break through and tell their story as well
yeah that's so powerful that idea of how when we look through the lens of self-determination A it is like I know the work at let's say
(10:10):
350.org you know they've done a really good job of cataloging media messages that were fed by the fossil fuel industry
and everything from you know carbon footprint to there's nothing you can do in the doomsday stories of that that keep us stuck and then not doing anything
and so this element of self-determination to be able to act and to find a place of that energy within yourself and then also as you touched on to that idea of
(10:42):
I know that I think there's even a documentary out right now called subject which is all about examining who gets to tell the story of somebody who is the subject of a documentary
and I even when I attended Sundance last year I noticed there was some interesting places where the subject was actually considered one of the co-authors of the documentary
(11:05):
where they were starting to expand upon how is how is a story being told and I'm wondering within this place because I think what's what's exciting about that is that so many people enter the climate conversation with kind of a
very serious question which is what can I do which is really kind of an excuse to do nothing and so this this power of self-determination I think this is another place I'd love to hear you talk a bit more about is is this place of if we don't have clear solutions
(11:45):
one of the things that's easy to market is a clear solution take this pill to lose 50 pounds do this one little trick and you'll get the person of your dreams you know it's such an easy way but in this realm of where we don't have solutions how is story helpful in that how is self-determination helpful in that especially as we deal with this thing that we have science behind to know metrics and predictors
(12:10):
but the lived experience of it is unlike anything we can almost even imagine at this point so I would love to hear how you think story helps with that
yeah this is such a good question and I hope I can do a justice answer and an overview but you know I have come to really understand that
(12:39):
when we're looking for solutions here sure there can be technical solutions there can be behavior change there can be
innovations that can absolutely are essential to help mitigate climate change but I think what's underneath all of that is what does it take to shift to that and when we talk about implementation adaptation recovery all of which are the human side of what it takes to not only move towards solutions but live in a time of climate change where we will be experiencing climate change and have fun
(13:24):
climate change and have to navigate what that means culturally in a way that we never have before what's so much deeper than that is the change that's required of us to grapple with this existential crisis that we don't have answers for with our sense of self with our sense of
(13:47):
we as human beings good for this planet are we doing a good job are we am I you know how do I fit in am I part of the problem these are very difficult things to wrestle with and then especially as you move towards anything that even is a proposed solution who is a solution for it's probably not a solution for everyone
(14:10):
there is more extraction that has to happen to move towards different forms of energy and fuel there is habitat you know considerations to be there's just so much change that's required and you you end up in this kind of experience of do we move quickly because it's urgent do we move thoughtfully because we've made mistakes in the past and we need to think about where we are going together before we make any drastic
(14:39):
action and there's so much debate and tension and disagreement that is going to naturally arise from us as individuals family members society community nobody has a singular answer it's impossible to look at a singular solution as by this instead of that and that it's just it's that's so
(15:05):
so reductive and that's really reducting us into just consumers and not participants in this whole system that we have built and participate in and are responsible for changing and so I think story comes into play because I think that the skills that we really need to build our ability to talk
(15:30):
about how to disagree being community hold community in crisis think thoughtfully about our neighbors as we are making decisions that are best for our community these are things that stories can and have historically really illuminated for us culturally and I think that
(15:51):
what we need now is actually to strengthen our humanity that is a solution to be able to live in a world with plurality where lots of different perspectives can be true at the same time depending on your lived experience that's something that's very difficult to hold and understand we see world leaders
grapple with this at cop we see this in policy be one of the biggest conflicts that arises so if we can't strengthen our approach to understanding that a solution isn't isn't a fix a solution is a process and it's one that takes constant
(16:31):
humanity evaluation tending to revisiting relationship building who are we at the end of the solution I think is a good question for us to be thinking about and what have we historically thought were solutions that ended up being harmful and ended up being lessons for us to learn from those are some of the values of some of the stories that we absorb now of looking back on our choices as humanity and what could we have done to
(17:00):
what could we have done differently or would do we wish we had done something differently so there's a lot to be explored and I think it's it's getting at something so much deeper than what I think is marketed to us as climate solutions.
Yeah and I think that designation that you made between consumer and participant is really key because with with the solutions were often put in that consumer role by these you know carbon credits or choose this food over this food or things like that and and I think the piece about the participant piece requires such an interesting level of concerted effort intentionality
(17:44):
and and one of the things that I've been really wondering about that would love your opinion on is is story structure itself like when we when we look at story structure throughout the world and throughout the ages we can summarize it in a handful of story structures and it all centers on three words something versus something
(18:07):
versus self self versus other one that I've been really wondering a lot about is humans versus nature that is one of the top seven or so that exists and I go and and I argued with story consultants about this ongoing because what I'm looking at is is there way to tell a story that is human with nature
(18:31):
and and and I know that you know when we look at story structure is that and even how you describe it is that what lessons did we learn so we can do it differently now what different plural ways of looking at it can we have and do those but heads to create a versus there.
So I'm wondering with from this lens of story how can we make stories exciting and entertaining thought provoking that that somehow replace this versus with a with and I'm wondering if you think that's even possible or maybe like I think of examples often would be more like indigenous type stories like origin stories oftentimes don't follow that structure
(19:18):
and so I'm curious to hear your vantage point on that.
Oh man there's so many lenses you could could really look at this through.
I love that you've identified man versus nature that certainly you know when we're talking about narrative shift and narrative change one that we're really encouraging people to think differently about.
(19:42):
And you know I think I think it's also reflective of the moment that we're in as people right now we're coming out of an industrial revolution where there it was very much the mentality of man versus nature how what can we do to change and survive and make modify our world to be better and even the idea of nature I read this wonderful book called the invention of nature and just this idea that we were a part of nature.
(20:11):
It was like a new very new concept for humanity to grapple with in terms of understanding it's not just yeah man versus my environment that I am having to survive is I am a part of nature and I influence it and I actually share a tinship with it which is very much you know we see that in the indigenous world view that you're speaking about.
(20:35):
And so can we do stories about that in a entertaining way I mean I think the answer is absolutely yes and I think it's really about continuing on this line of thinking about the solutions angle it's it's like.
Who do we want to be what do we want to value can our characters and our stories value that I don't think our stories need to change much they they should stay entertaining they should.
(21:13):
Explore really complicated questions and relationship tensions but I think that there's a world in which we just need to reshape the values of what those characters value and this can be simple materialistic things like is a giant perfect suburban house really what's important to this family or is of setting in a family vacation in nature and important backdrop of this story.
(21:42):
And something that they value is the you know perfect wardrobe and fashion that we're seeing is valuable to a character can they have another value system that they're very interested in and explore I mean I see there's simple shifts like that that I think are very easy for us to think about it's I honestly shocking to me how many characters we see on screen that don't have any environmental values at all that are visible or understandable but yet I think that's a very important thing.
(22:11):
But yet I think socially when you look around like you'll go to your friends houses and you'll see most people have some sort of like sustainability thinking at this point most people are feeling the need to do something like why aren't we seeing that value system in the people that we're experiencing as our character friends on screen.
I don't know that much needs to change other than the values of the characters because our values are changing and I think that's really a starting point.
(22:41):
I also just want to say like I think another lens to look at this with is the future orientation because we always show our future as apocalyptic it feels and technologically overwhelming and completely disconnected from anything humanity nature like why is that the only future that we can.
In vision that's horribly sad we can dream anything we want as storytellers and what we're dreaming is the city and technology all around us and nuclear fields and deserts and drought I would really love it if you know our future isn't that man destroyed nature and now suffers the consequences I would love it if we envisioned a future where man really understood the power of nature.
(23:29):
And we all did it in such way that it made our lives so much better so much more joy is so much more powerful so much more meaningful where those futures I would love for people to really shift thinking about what we're envisioning for ourselves.
Yeah I really love that so that idea of imagining the future world building of sorts that's often talked about in the sci fi genre for sure but even you know but mister fuller had his world games that were a similar thing that he invited leaders to imagine you know the world 50 years from now and what would they what would they want to kind of government and society what they want that work they're doing now to create.
(24:11):
I think what's what's interesting that is part of this conversation that that I would love to take another step forward in our question about it is.
You know if we look at stories they have to have stakes that's part of what's entertaining about it right that there's something that we want to find out how how do they work through it how do they get through what's at stake and if you look at like let's let's take reality TV shows they're going to win a million dollar prize they're going to find the love of the life they're going to whatever the case may be.
(24:49):
And what I'm curious about is when we plant these values into our characters because they reflect the majority of people and when we use our imagination of storytellers to paint potential.
(25:10):
And in the future is what do you think is the underlying stakes of the story that you could that we can point to because to me it's it's kind of a no brainer it's like it's our very survival it's our it's our very like humanity.
But that that seems a bit too broad because part of story is you got to get in some of the details in the specifics of the story some curious how you navigate helping people sharpen that quality of a story.
(25:38):
And then we're going to look at the real world around stakes when we're trying to deal with some of these larger existential questions.
You know something emotional came up for me when you're speaking about stakes and I agree you know there's there's the biggest one of course which is the future of all society and humanity existing it but I think it's the small things for me that informed my personal stakes being felt in really not being able to focus on very much else in my career and my life and having to really lean into this is that.
(26:07):
If you've ever stood in a forest that was your childhood home and seen it burned to the ground.
That's a stakes I can never show that to my husband I can never experience that and heal from that place again and feel those encherished memories that existed there if you've ever.
(26:31):
Gone to a beautiful place and experienced a population of animals that was there and you come back and they are no longer.
That's a loss that is a stake that feels very emotional if you're someone that has a relationship with with earth and with the planet and nature is a part of who you are and what you need to experience this world in the best version of yourself.
(27:00):
I think that the small stakes there's also of course the stakes of like housing displacement and lots of you know history and family and there's so much that you know I think that's unfortunately thinking about the disaster angle of it but I think there's also this feeling of fighting against systems and what are the stakes of feeling like you don't have control over your own life.
(27:29):
And one of the stakes of feeling like you are at the mercy of systems that you can't fight against and I think everyone can relate to that in some way you're struggling in a system that is broken and that you feel like you know it's broken but you don't know what to do and what are the stakes that move people to have self determination and do something even if it's.
(27:55):
This and something very small and specific in your world and your community in your place of what you can do it's shocking that's that's not an easy shift for people to make but if you sit with what that shift in for your what the stakes would take for you to make that shift.
I think that's a good place to start and it could be about climate but it could be about a lot of different things because climate is an intersection of broken values and broken systems so you can follow a lot of lines to get there of what the stakes are.
(28:30):
Yeah, I think that that's really a luminity in that quality because I know that is a discussion we have a lot within within this realm of you know as you talked about not just showing the dystopia so not just showing the degradation or the destruction but that idea of of systems I think is really insightful in regards to especially sense that is that's how we got here is we built sense of systems that so many people think that well that's just the way it is right.
(28:59):
It's actually well know it can be changed but i'm wondering about impact because one of things especially when we do film is we talk about impact campaigns and I know with climate of I actually have a unique approach because i'm integrating it from the very beginning it's going to be how we fund it it's going to be how we distribute it and who we choose to be in part of it.
(29:25):
And and all of those elements are from the ground up and sometimes for some documentaries it's almost like we just made it through like we got the fund in okay great now we can film okay great and and they're kind of these siloed places and then you get to the impact campaign you're almost like i'm so tired of this film it's like seven years later what do I do now.
(29:48):
Yes, I'm wondering like what through this process, how do you support creators storytellers filmmakers in this potential for impact campaigns.
What I've really come to embrace through a lot of observation and research and case studies and working with a lot of different artists putting a story out in the world at all has the potential to create an impact whether you intend for it to or not so in thinking about impact it's
(30:31):
a holistic approach of power you responsibly wielding that impact have you thought that through it comes from a place of understanding what you're showing it comes from a place of who you're amplifying are you what you know to what depth are you telling the truth or are you.
(30:54):
Including people who should be stakeholders in the story that's being told there's a multifaceted approach to I think interpreting what impact means and I think there will be a certain point in which.
If you are making a project for an advocacy purpose there's there will be a goal and there will be an impact that can be achieved through i'm making this film to do this or to have people and you know people.
(31:31):
I will never say that i'm the one voice of what impact means it's used in so many different ways for some people the impact is the emotional resonance that an audience feels and that is enough and that's the full conversation and that's totally fine and i'll never.
I'll say that in what i've really learned particularly through my academic research is how influential media really is and we're contributing to collective narrative memory we're contributing to identity for ourselves we are contributing to.
(32:06):
I think that if you don't think about the impact that your story can potentially have in a positive or a negative way that is something to really I think hold more responsibly in our role as media makers specifically something that is used so so.
(32:29):
So that's that's like the first part of the answer I think the second part of the answer is if you are someone that's creating because you have something to say or something you want to change wow what a powerful thing and your story can unlock some really amazing potential for that to happen i've seen stories.
spur conversations between people and communities who i'd never talked before and then they mobilized in made a movement i've seen impact the training policy makers and decision makers and lawyers to think differently about the cases that they're hearing the policies that they're making.
(33:07):
It's stopped bad decisions from happening it's encouraged good decisions to happen it is there's so much unlimited potential of what the impact of your film can be and you can really choose what is important to you in that is it building community is it reaching certain specific people to have a conversation is it.
(33:30):
mobilizing a movement is it shutting something down is it building something up is it changing where power is being distributed like ask yourself those questions what is the best version of how this story can.
And then you can influence the world and the issue that I care about start there and then think about and work with people who can tangibly help you think about what that could really look like who could be involved in that.
(33:59):
And i'll just plug one step further which is there if you are doing a film because you feel something but you're not doing the advocacy work on the ground i really encourage you to connect with people on the ground because your film might also be a bridge for people to learn about important work that's happening every day.
direct support those initiatives and you don't have to solve the world's problems but you sure can point to people who are working day and day out to try to do that and i think we need to think a lot more thoughtfully about ourselves as connectors and bridge builders to important initiatives people thought leaders.
(34:37):
That i think is another power that is certainly right for tapping when we're thinking about impact of our stories.
Yeah and that connects a lot with work that i know that you've been doing a lot of writing about which is this element of storytelling and democracy and i think that last point that you wanted to plug is really a big piece of that is.
(34:58):
You know of the people for the people and when that comes to let's say a climate story it is well who are the people that yet yes you are a part of it because you are a part of climate but if you're not touching it every day or having to make some of those large and small decisions about it on a regular basis.
You might not know and you know that's that's a movement that's happening throughout the arts throughout the humanities throughout governance is how to listen more to the people that are that are more directly involved because they're going to have incredible insights that.
(35:37):
And so I think that you know from an outside perspective no matter how much you research you're you're just never going to come across and so i'm curious if there's there's more to this idea of linking storytelling and democracy that that you feel is is important to share.
So I think the of whose stories are told is really important to me when thinking about democracy I think i'm existing in an entertainment system where there are certain films that get tons of financial support and resources saying an attention and there are films that have to do it all on their own.
(36:16):
And I think that if we want to really truly change the story of our cultural truths and i'll expand on that in just a second but we really are saying we want to change the story that is not going to happen from top down development.
We're going to keep creating a monoculture of the same people telling the same stories on a f of a business model that has proven for business purposes and I think where we're truly seeing innovation and when we're where we're seeing fresh perspectives where we're seeing perspectives that are based on lived experience that is coming from artists and if you know anything about supporting artists.
(36:59):
It's a hard journey to be an artist it's a hard journey to get to a place where you are supported it is a hard place to get to a place where people where your work is visible the hard hard fought hard one journey over and over and over again and so I think that that's not dissimilar from feeling like a singular voice in a democracy and wanting to advocate for your community for your perspective for.
(37:27):
Your take on what is happening which could be very, very valuable and unlock a lot of different ways into problem solving but if you are not heard or you don't have the access that is hugely problematic for democracy when things lean towards the same decision makers make the same decisions and we all live in the same broken systems and so I think.
(37:53):
First of all I think there's a really important connection between the society and the value system that we are living in has been designed by a certain type of people who have held power for a long time and if you don't redistribute that power you will not see different stories and you will not see a different way forward and so I think that is really important to be thinking about really understanding the deep connection between DEI initiatives and climate justice.
(38:22):
And climate justice we will not see decisions shift unless we change the decision makers and see different ways of world experiences that can inform what decisions are reached so that's that's one thing and then.
If you read a lot of screen plays which I have done as both a teacher and a reviewer and a judge on several when you start reading and reading and reading the stories and the stories that people are trying to tell.
(38:51):
You will really quickly see how many similarities there are between like what I'm going to do is stereotypes of characters or ways of solving problems or ways of going on these journeys as characters and you start to realize they may just be cultural truths but they may not be authentic to what that person they they're doing it because they're trying to accomplish a story framework that they know will be.
(39:20):
But it may not be that that is their truth and it's very interesting to me to work with artists and say what is your truth what's not the societal truth that you have been told and we see this arise in tropes stereotypes things that we see over and over again and people will write these things and not even realize that they've written them into their own stories because they've just.
(39:49):
Making it on as a part of their way of telling a story that feels.
Attemplatized to them and and I'm just very interested in breaking us out of that so when I say cultural truths I mean like these things that are our collective narrative memory and how do we show new things if we are.
shaping things to constantly fit a model that is a proven successful business model or proven successful story template will will just keep creating those.
(40:21):
Layers and layers of cultural truths that will adapt as truth but they not may not actually be a truth they may just be a trope or a stereotype or something that we have been told is the way that things are.
Yeah that's really insightful because whenever we hear that word truth we assume oh that's the thing right and you're encouraging in that moment to be like well let's let's double check let's let's take a moment let's take a breath and actually take a look at what we.
(40:51):
And so I really love that and I love where that kind of leads me into is that when I have these conversations I also like to look at you know because we've been talking now for about 50 minutes about all the superpowers that we have a storytellers and and these elements we have to to bring to the table the things that we can add to the conversation the things that we can be proud of that we have.
(41:19):
And there's also some things that we need to make sure that we're also on the lookout for and and challenging ourselves about through the process and cultural truths definitely seems like a legit one from this idea of storytelling and there's a couple other ones I would love if as you hear them.
And there's a couple of ways that you've seen them happen in the world and suggestions you have things that perhaps you've experienced or even working through yourself depending on your your comfort level with that but kind of some things that I've noticed that people of the metaphor type struggle with is a shiny object syndrome.
(41:59):
That's cool, oh that's cool you know we were actually joking before we started recording about our to do list that were just grown by the day of on a just on a unable time wise to get to all of them.
And there's also a you know when you talked about that pressure that artists have to get funding to support themselves to do this work it also that flip side can be a paralyzing fear of failure because if you fail it's it's so much harder to you know we even have terms like the soft moroc effect to describe you know with somebody's trying to get that second addition out of something and they struggle with it like the how that can take their career.
(42:42):
And also I think sometimes there is this bias that things that are more scientific perhaps or more business orientated are given so much more credence in this world that there is this bias against those things as trying to rebell against them or or their rigidity and within that I'm curious to see how you have found ways it a I'm here I'm seeing you shake your head so I'm guessing there's some resonance there.
(43:11):
But I'm curious ways that you either have worked through some of those things yourself or helped people work through in all the various amazing ways that you have to support people and overall comments.
Oh wow well yes I mean I'll just say I've of course have struggled with all of those things on my own journey.
(43:38):
And I think the shiny object syndrome that when I have not figured out that that I mean I just attribute it to I feel like personally I just have an un-satiable curiosity about everything.
I really do just enjoy learning new things all the time I enjoy coming up with new ideas I feel like when I am most creative it is my most healthy and happiest self so you know I do chase creativity and it's hard to finish things it's hard to see things through when you've got that new poll of oh what about this idea now or and I also feel like
(44:26):
the world is just so overwhelmingly that that's just particularly when you get into cause driven work there's so much to want to give your heart and attention to and I think is an activist it's super easy to burn out and I think artists are very emotional and so you also feel that emotional
(44:50):
and responsibility to everything that you see as interconnected and inter-laked and and you just can't possibly give all of your time and energy and attention and work and skillsets to every single thing no matter how much you feel your heart cracked wide open to do so and so I think like mediating that and just giving yourself permission to feel but knowing that you have to walk
(45:17):
your path and do what you can do and focus on the things that you have the power to change and that fuel you that's the other important thing is like it has to fuel you to stay engaged with it because otherwise you you will burn out and get to a really I think challenging place to get get out of and you'll find yourself searching for that so that was a deep
(45:44):
departure from your full question but it's that's hard I'm still working on that one I don't have any good answers if anyone does send me
but I think the other pieces of fear of failure and struggling as an artist I can say I very very much was just so absolutely terrified of a failing of asking for things of putting my ideas out there as I started
(46:13):
as an artist and I think since I've moved into a role of artist support and an educator and I really would encourage everyone to mentor or teach or try something where you can experience helping others on their artistic journey
(46:35):
and I think you will see so much of yourself and you will have this kind of like really portal experience of going this person is incredible their idea is amazing they have nothing but just mountains of aspirations and dreams in front of them
and I'm so excited for them and yet they're filled with doubt and self dread and you know self doubt and they're struggling to see their value and like you just want to pull that out of them and you want to believe in them and show them that they're the only thing holding themselves back
(47:10):
and then you kind of can pause and go oh someone advocated for that for me and that was me and I everyone feels this and can I take my own advice can I listen to what I'm telling another artist to do which is just go for it
and just believe like don't worry about what people say and like if you can almost give advice to take your own advice that really shifted for me
(47:42):
an understanding of what my fears were and an understanding of how to move forward and it really usually I would say most of the time is facing yourself
I think fear of asking for things and thinking that I was bothering people or not qualified enough yet or didn't have enough you know in place that perfectionism it has to be this perfect package before I show it to anyone
(48:08):
and now I exist in a space where people ask me for things all the time and they're very brazen about it and they just throw things your way and say what do you think about this or you know I'm working on this can you help me
and like it doesn't bother me at all it's like I start to see oh those are the people getting things done like my ideas sitting in a box that no one's looking at are not getting done
(48:32):
the people that are out there building community talking about their ideas being brave enough to share their 10 steps ahead of somebody that's sitting there afraid to share
and I know that's not an easy thing to hear I wouldn't have taken that advice probably 10 years ago but I know now that it really is about that relationship building and the confidence building in yourself to know that nothing bad is going to happen if you share
(49:04):
I promise and asking for things and sharing your ideas
at least at early stages you know there's there's a lot of risks to putting your creative work out there and that's a whole other conversation that everyone has to navigate in their own way
but I think if you just are called to create I really hope that you do I hope you do it for your own life experience I hope you do it for what feels you
(49:29):
and I hope that you don't let yourself be the only thing that holds you back because there's a lot of other things that we have to grapple with but you being your own barrier is certainly the one that I hope every artist gets gets passed
yeah and yeah that's that's a huge insight into how to look at that fear of failure is is through the lens of getting out of your own way and I think even more so this piece that you touched on that there's there's where we're kind of near the end of wrapping this up and there's normally two questions that I ask
(50:12):
and one you kind of walked into with with the way that you express this idea of putting your ideas out there and sharing is through relationship and kind of these last two questions one that I often ask about is looking through the lens that you look at life and the skill sets you have
and how do you view reciprocal relationships like you talked about from this idea of mentoring it's that you are getting actually the you're getting a whole new way to look at advice that you need for yourself
(50:43):
and when you're putting your ideas out there you're potentially building these relationships that can support one another and so I see reciprocity there I'm curious if there's anything else that you want to add either from a human to human
or we have a reciprocal relationship or this wider sense of how to look at it from an environmental standpoint as well
(51:07):
that's a really thoughtful concept I mean I I think reciprocity for me is deeply grounded in empathy and care so I think if if I can experience care from a relationship
that can mean a lot of different things in different situations but if I can experience care as a core tenant of a relationship and if I can give care that feels very reciprocal to me I think you know it's easy to feel what an extractive relationship feels like if you're not getting any sort of care in return so I think that's a big part of it for me personally
(51:51):
I forgot the second part of your question I'm sorry I think that's it was just exploring if because I think one of the things that is curious is you were talking with this idea of care
and and you're like we we understand unfortunately all too well what an extractive relationship looks like and that and fortunately that tends to be the bulk of our relationship with the environment is that you know I've I've gotten my thing out of it
(52:19):
but what am I how what is that what is the care that I'm giving back to that and so just just curious if you have especially since you work in this realm of a lot of stories that focus within the environmental climate space
if there's maybe a story that gave you insight about that or just a melding pot of an idea that's formed from having the exposure to all these different stories
(52:41):
the impact piece is really where I see that reciprocal relationship because if you are telling a story about a place or a community or you're a part of that community and you're telling that story I think the care of how will this affect the community how will this affect this place
how will this affect the outcome of the problem that I am presenting or the conflict that I am presenting and really really strongly considering that and choosing your actions carefully as a result of those considerations that is a reciprocal relationship with the holistic story
(53:18):
you know is your film going to cause harm is it going to increase traffic and then overly extracted from region is it going to affect people's livelihoods their public appearances their ability for upward mobility or are they getting nothing out of it and you took a story and then they didn't receive anything out of it
(53:45):
that is extractive and so I think seeing both the more ethical approach to filmmaking and storytelling that's emergent in our field and certainly considering you know the environmental impact that we have in caring for place and caring for practice and caring for what is it cost for you to do what you are doing
(54:12):
and are you restoring that place are you practicing reciprocity are you thinking about locally sourced things instead of exports from all over the world and further you know extraction and these are all really important questions I think there's so many different ways to look at our reciprocity and when you zoom out and think about our reciprocity with the planet
(54:37):
all of our choices to think about what what is my impact on this place in this time and how can it be a more positive one than a negative one and how can I not just participate in a system that I know for certain is negative what can be my piece of disrupting that even if it's small what is my small piece and disrupting that
(55:03):
I think I can't really tell you so much Heather I know that one of the things so that the last question is a bit of a curve ball so before I throw that curve ball here at the end I do want to preempt it because your answer might be to share with everybody that if you are interested in these topics if you do want to explore how do we get
(55:27):
that are done through Hollywood or other filming means I would encourage everybody to join Heather and I at the next Hollywood climate summit which is going to be June 24 through the 28th the summer is my understanding and so that's super exciting I'm glad it will be the fifth annual one and it keeps getting more of an impact and more people talking and meeting and connecting and so I preempt with that because the last question that I love to ever ask everybody is
(55:56):
what something that you wish I would have asked and didn't over the course of this conversation oh my gosh I don't think I have a question because you asked such a really thought provoking questions I think it's really just I think it's interesting to me leaving the concept of of questions because I grapple with these all the time like I'll just say I don't think there's any right way one right way
(56:25):
to do anything and so I just like this idea of continuing to ask questions and having an insatiable curiosity and I think that's just a really important part of being an artist of being a storyteller and of being a citizen in this world is just continuing to ask questions and really
(56:54):
to be a lifelong learning journey and that's just what I'll say about reflections from this conversation I'm still on a lifelong learning journey myself this is where I'm at right now but I think I think these are really thoughtful conversations that you're having and I really really appreciate the way that you're really opening up space to think about our relationship with our planet and our relationship with ourselves and each other so thank you.
(57:20):
Amazing thank you so much Heather such such a delight to spend this luxurious hour with you and to share with people listening and I look forward to continue to ask questions right alongside you and creating a stronger and stronger community thank you so much.
Thank you.
(57:41):
Hey Earthmate how did that episode resonate did it stretch you inspire you or perhaps or you I'm here for it so please reach out besides the socials we have a community to practice with on our website earth archetypes dot com where more
archetypes can guide your path and become dear friends a great place to start is the quiz to discover your type. Oh and on your way I'd love for you to hit the subscribe button see you again soon.
(58:16):
[music]
I think another lens to look at this with is the future orientation because we always show our future as apocalyptic it feels and technologically overwhelming and completely disconnected from anything humanity nature like why is that the only future that we can envision that's horribly sad we can dream anything we want as storytellers and what we're dreaming is
(00:25):
the city and technology all around us and nuclear fields and deserts and drought I would really love it if you know our future isn't that man destroyed nature and now suffers the consequences I would love it if we envisioned a future where man really understood the power of nature and we all did it in such a way that it made our lives so much better so much more joy is so much more powerful so much more meaningful
(00:54):
where are those futures welcome to the earth mates podcast together we explore how to find your path from climate anxiety to community action by asking who are you because just like any relationship that matters
(01:17):
so get ready to be raw and real but also playful and silly with me chief relationship officer amber peoples as we discover what's possible through the lens of the five earth archetypes
curiosity and subscription buttons highly encouraged
(01:43):
welcome friend to the podcast today today as we record this session I'm around the 45th parallel and it is the middle of winter so I have this cozy sweater on and I know that Heather is calling in from LA and so she's probably a little bit warmer but I noticed we got the long sleeves and it feels like something that's potentially petable and so I'm feeling connected to all of you out there right now wearing something that has that quality to it
(02:10):
or maybe as you're listening to this it is the middle of summer and you are releasing and having your skin feel the sun and so wherever you are in this moment whatever time of year it is
we're going to take a five-second pause I'm an account silently in my head and have you feel and experience what it is that is around you in this moment as you're listening to this
(02:33):
so take a bait take a beat tune in and here we go
thank you
now as we come back to your listening ears I am delighted to introduce you to the metaphor type Heather Fips
(03:01):
I was first introduced to Heather as she moderated an eye-opening panel at the 2023 Sundance Film Festival called Audiences Want Climate Stories
and the resounding response was yes they sure do we have all kinds of research on it that's super exciting
and she would know for sure too as the senior program director at the Redford Center where she cultivates opportunities for environmental filmmakers and produces impact driven media projects and campaigns
(03:32):
then I got to see her as in full boss mode during the Hollywood climate summit in June where she is a co-founder
so all the things that amazed me about Heather I loved that one of her favorite aspects of the event was bringing the people doing on the ground climate work into Hollywood to share their stories
because self-determination is the key to storytelling stories that show the humanity behind the goals in a time where we don't have clear solutions
(04:03):
so I'm excited to have Heather here today to talk more about the power of story and all things that come about when we view the world from a lens of storytelling and from the metaphor type and specifically within this environmental climate space
so welcome Heather I'm curious to hear if you have another version of this story that you would like to share with folks
(04:24):
oh my gosh well thank you so much for having me Amber I love the work that you're doing and I'm so curious to learn more about the metaphor type through our conversation as well
but yeah I would say you know it was a pleasure meeting you it was just one of these moments where you put your ideas out in the world and people come up to you and share if they resonate
(04:49):
and Amber you shared that what I had programmed and talked about did resonate with you and not only does that mean a lot I mean I think it was just such a great moment of connection to you know
it's the value of convening people so that we feel that we're not alone that we hear ideas that resonate with what we've been maybe thinking about in isolation but now we've built community
(05:12):
and so I'm just really happy to be in community with you today
I'm so grateful thank you so much yeah that peace about community is so important and really at the heart of earth relationship
it's that idea of a lot of where these these types came from was actually listening to physicist Fritov Capra
and he was looking at these different definitions of oneness or belonging and connection
(05:37):
and so you know I love this idea of first of all having that impetus to bring what is in your head to the forefront and and share it and put it out because you never quite know what's going to happen
but then to hear those those places of resonance those places of community is really such a special place and especially places like what you were doing when you were bringing different groups of people together to see what could happen in that synergy
(06:05):
and that brings us kind of to where we started in the in the intro about the storyline about self determination
and I know that that is a big part about you know what you're looking at when you put together the summit and who you chose to have on panels
also when you're at the Redford Center and you're looking at stories that you want to share
and I'm curious what more you can talk about when we look at climate stories
(06:30):
how the heck does self determination fit into that it almost it it doesn't seem necessarily like a no brainer
it feels like there's some leap to take there and I'd love for you to help us with that leap
yeah I think that's a great question I mean there's a couple of different levels that I've come to think about it
you know the first is in being a documentary filmmaker
(06:55):
there's particularly we have a certain vision of what nature documentaries are right and it's usually a film crew goes
films a place goes and tells a story about a place that they're not from and really kind of perpetuates an extractive storytelling model of go in
tell a story about a place that you are not necessarily a part of and there's been some let's not you know
(07:20):
I don't want to tear that down we've needed those stories we've needed those points of connection to visualize nature
to visualize you know other forms of storytelling not even just nature documentaries
but I think that in being a storytelling practitioner you start to really understand the responsibility that you hold
when engaging with someone else's story and you start to ask if you're an ethical filmmaker questions about is this my story to tell
(07:46):
and there's a field wide discussion happening about this that is really important to have and I think it it
on one level leads us to really understand that there are certain stories that exist but who deserves to tell them
and that's a form of self-determination there have been stories that have been told about populations of people
(08:08):
marginalized of all kinds and some of those stories are wrong they've painted false images of people of culture
of gender and self-determination is the ability to say that's not my story my story is this and I want to correct that
through the messages that I'm participating in messages that I'm putting out in the world and so I think self-determination of story origin is really important
(08:36):
I think self-determination also comes through when we talk about climate because for me we've been told the story about climate
we've been told a story about climate from people who are trying to perpetuate harm
we've been told stories that we can't exist without fossil fuel we've been told stories that we're doomed we've been told stories that
(08:57):
there's nothing we as individuals can do or that individually it is all our fault and not the faults of corporations
and I think it's on us to reclaim that story and take our humanity self-determination into our own hands and say
not only is that wrong we are going to self-determine our future and we're going to imagine a better one
(09:19):
and it doesn't have to be what has been designed presented to us it doesn't have to be the story that we are told that we have to exist in
and I think that there's a lot of value in moving particularly as a climate activist into a space of
I'm not just going to accept what I'm being told I'm going to tell a different story to myself so that I can keep going I'm going to tell a different story
(09:45):
so that the people that I know need to be involved in this conversation who aren't here have a way to break through and tell their story as well
yeah that's so powerful that idea of how when we look through the lens of self-determination A it is like I know the work at let's say
(10:10):
350.org you know they've done a really good job of cataloging media messages that were fed by the fossil fuel industry
and everything from you know carbon footprint to there's nothing you can do in the doomsday stories of that that keep us stuck and then not doing anything
and so this element of self-determination to be able to act and to find a place of that energy within yourself and then also as you touched on to that idea of
(10:42):
I know that I think there's even a documentary out right now called subject which is all about examining who gets to tell the story of somebody who is the subject of a documentary
and I even when I attended Sundance last year I noticed there was some interesting places where the subject was actually considered one of the co-authors of the documentary
(11:05):
where they were starting to expand upon how is how is a story being told and I'm wondering within this place because I think what's what's exciting about that is that so many people enter the climate conversation with kind of a
very serious question which is what can I do which is really kind of an excuse to do nothing and so this this power of self-determination I think this is another place I'd love to hear you talk a bit more about is is this place of if we don't have clear solutions
(11:45):
one of the things that's easy to market is a clear solution take this pill to lose 50 pounds do this one little trick and you'll get the person of your dreams you know it's such an easy way but in this realm of where we don't have solutions how is story helpful in that how is self-determination helpful in that especially as we deal with this thing that we have science behind to know metrics and predictors
(12:10):
but the lived experience of it is unlike anything we can almost even imagine at this point so I would love to hear how you think story helps with that
yeah this is such a good question and I hope I can do a justice answer and an overview but you know I have come to really understand that
(12:39):
when we're looking for solutions here sure there can be technical solutions there can be behavior change there can be
innovations that can absolutely are essential to help mitigate climate change but I think what's underneath all of that is what does it take to shift to that and when we talk about implementation adaptation recovery all of which are the human side of what it takes to not only move towards solutions but live in a time of climate change where we will be experiencing climate change and have fun
(13:24):
climate change and have to navigate what that means culturally in a way that we never have before what's so much deeper than that is the change that's required of us to grapple with this existential crisis that we don't have answers for with our sense of self with our sense of
(13:47):
we as human beings good for this planet are we doing a good job are we am I you know how do I fit in am I part of the problem these are very difficult things to wrestle with and then especially as you move towards anything that even is a proposed solution who is a solution for it's probably not a solution for everyone
(14:10):
there is more extraction that has to happen to move towards different forms of energy and fuel there is habitat you know considerations to be there's just so much change that's required and you you end up in this kind of experience of do we move quickly because it's urgent do we move thoughtfully because we've made mistakes in the past and we need to think about where we are going together before we make any drastic
(14:39):
action and there's so much debate and tension and disagreement that is going to naturally arise from us as individuals family members society community nobody has a singular answer it's impossible to look at a singular solution as by this instead of that and that it's just it's that's so
(15:05):
so reductive and that's really reducting us into just consumers and not participants in this whole system that we have built and participate in and are responsible for changing and so I think story comes into play because I think that the skills that we really need to build our ability to talk
(15:30):
about how to disagree being community hold community in crisis think thoughtfully about our neighbors as we are making decisions that are best for our community these are things that stories can and have historically really illuminated for us culturally and I think that
(15:51):
what we need now is actually to strengthen our humanity that is a solution to be able to live in a world with plurality where lots of different perspectives can be true at the same time depending on your lived experience that's something that's very difficult to hold and understand we see world leaders
grapple with this at cop we see this in policy be one of the biggest conflicts that arises so if we can't strengthen our approach to understanding that a solution isn't isn't a fix a solution is a process and it's one that takes constant
(16:31):
humanity evaluation tending to revisiting relationship building who are we at the end of the solution I think is a good question for us to be thinking about and what have we historically thought were solutions that ended up being harmful and ended up being lessons for us to learn from those are some of the values of some of the stories that we absorb now of looking back on our choices as humanity and what could we have done to
(17:00):
what could we have done differently or would do we wish we had done something differently so there's a lot to be explored and I think it's it's getting at something so much deeper than what I think is marketed to us as climate solutions.
Yeah and I think that designation that you made between consumer and participant is really key because with with the solutions were often put in that consumer role by these you know carbon credits or choose this food over this food or things like that and and I think the piece about the participant piece requires such an interesting level of concerted effort intentionality
(17:44):
and and one of the things that I've been really wondering about that would love your opinion on is is story structure itself like when we when we look at story structure throughout the world and throughout the ages we can summarize it in a handful of story structures and it all centers on three words something versus something
(18:07):
versus self self versus other one that I've been really wondering a lot about is humans versus nature that is one of the top seven or so that exists and I go and and I argued with story consultants about this ongoing because what I'm looking at is is there way to tell a story that is human with nature
(18:31):
and and and I know that you know when we look at story structure is that and even how you describe it is that what lessons did we learn so we can do it differently now what different plural ways of looking at it can we have and do those but heads to create a versus there.
So I'm wondering with from this lens of story how can we make stories exciting and entertaining thought provoking that that somehow replace this versus with a with and I'm wondering if you think that's even possible or maybe like I think of examples often would be more like indigenous type stories like origin stories oftentimes don't follow that structure
(19:18):
and so I'm curious to hear your vantage point on that.
Oh man there's so many lenses you could could really look at this through.
I love that you've identified man versus nature that certainly you know when we're talking about narrative shift and narrative change one that we're really encouraging people to think differently about.
(19:42):
And you know I think I think it's also reflective of the moment that we're in as people right now we're coming out of an industrial revolution where there it was very much the mentality of man versus nature how what can we do to change and survive and make modify our world to be better and even the idea of nature I read this wonderful book called the invention of nature and just this idea that we were a part of nature.
(20:11):
It was like a new very new concept for humanity to grapple with in terms of understanding it's not just yeah man versus my environment that I am having to survive is I am a part of nature and I influence it and I actually share a tinship with it which is very much you know we see that in the indigenous world view that you're speaking about.
(20:35):
And so can we do stories about that in a entertaining way I mean I think the answer is absolutely yes and I think it's really about continuing on this line of thinking about the solutions angle it's it's like.
Who do we want to be what do we want to value can our characters and our stories value that I don't think our stories need to change much they they should stay entertaining they should.
(21:13):
Explore really complicated questions and relationship tensions but I think that there's a world in which we just need to reshape the values of what those characters value and this can be simple materialistic things like is a giant perfect suburban house really what's important to this family or is of setting in a family vacation in nature and important backdrop of this story.
(21:42):
And something that they value is the you know perfect wardrobe and fashion that we're seeing is valuable to a character can they have another value system that they're very interested in and explore I mean I see there's simple shifts like that that I think are very easy for us to think about it's I honestly shocking to me how many characters we see on screen that don't have any environmental values at all that are visible or understandable but yet I think that's a very important thing.
(22:11):
But yet I think socially when you look around like you'll go to your friends houses and you'll see most people have some sort of like sustainability thinking at this point most people are feeling the need to do something like why aren't we seeing that value system in the people that we're experiencing as our character friends on screen.
I don't know that much needs to change other than the values of the characters because our values are changing and I think that's really a starting point.
(22:41):
I also just want to say like I think another lens to look at this with is the future orientation because we always show our future as apocalyptic it feels and technologically overwhelming and completely disconnected from anything humanity nature like why is that the only future that we can.
In vision that's horribly sad we can dream anything we want as storytellers and what we're dreaming is the city and technology all around us and nuclear fields and deserts and drought I would really love it if you know our future isn't that man destroyed nature and now suffers the consequences I would love it if we envisioned a future where man really understood the power of nature.
(23:29):
And we all did it in such way that it made our lives so much better so much more joy is so much more powerful so much more meaningful where those futures I would love for people to really shift thinking about what we're envisioning for ourselves.
Yeah I really love that so that idea of imagining the future world building of sorts that's often talked about in the sci fi genre for sure but even you know but mister fuller had his world games that were a similar thing that he invited leaders to imagine you know the world 50 years from now and what would they what would they want to kind of government and society what they want that work they're doing now to create.
(24:11):
I think what's what's interesting that is part of this conversation that that I would love to take another step forward in our question about it is.
You know if we look at stories they have to have stakes that's part of what's entertaining about it right that there's something that we want to find out how how do they work through it how do they get through what's at stake and if you look at like let's let's take reality TV shows they're going to win a million dollar prize they're going to find the love of the life they're going to whatever the case may be.
(24:49):
And what I'm curious about is when we plant these values into our characters because they reflect the majority of people and when we use our imagination of storytellers to paint potential.
(25:10):
And in the future is what do you think is the underlying stakes of the story that you could that we can point to because to me it's it's kind of a no brainer it's like it's our very survival it's our it's our very like humanity.
But that that seems a bit too broad because part of story is you got to get in some of the details in the specifics of the story some curious how you navigate helping people sharpen that quality of a story.
(25:38):
And then we're going to look at the real world around stakes when we're trying to deal with some of these larger existential questions.
You know something emotional came up for me when you're speaking about stakes and I agree you know there's there's the biggest one of course which is the future of all society and humanity existing it but I think it's the small things for me that informed my personal stakes being felt in really not being able to focus on very much else in my career and my life and having to really lean into this is that.
(26:07):
If you've ever stood in a forest that was your childhood home and seen it burned to the ground.
That's a stakes I can never show that to my husband I can never experience that and heal from that place again and feel those encherished memories that existed there if you've ever.
(26:31):
Gone to a beautiful place and experienced a population of animals that was there and you come back and they are no longer.
That's a loss that is a stake that feels very emotional if you're someone that has a relationship with with earth and with the planet and nature is a part of who you are and what you need to experience this world in the best version of yourself.
(27:00):
I think that the small stakes there's also of course the stakes of like housing displacement and lots of you know history and family and there's so much that you know I think that's unfortunately thinking about the disaster angle of it but I think there's also this feeling of fighting against systems and what are the stakes of feeling like you don't have control over your own life.
(27:29):
And one of the stakes of feeling like you are at the mercy of systems that you can't fight against and I think everyone can relate to that in some way you're struggling in a system that is broken and that you feel like you know it's broken but you don't know what to do and what are the stakes that move people to have self determination and do something even if it's.
(27:55):
This and something very small and specific in your world and your community in your place of what you can do it's shocking that's that's not an easy shift for people to make but if you sit with what that shift in for your what the stakes would take for you to make that shift.
I think that's a good place to start and it could be about climate but it could be about a lot of different things because climate is an intersection of broken values and broken systems so you can follow a lot of lines to get there of what the stakes are.
(28:30):
Yeah, I think that that's really a luminity in that quality because I know that is a discussion we have a lot within within this realm of you know as you talked about not just showing the dystopia so not just showing the degradation or the destruction but that idea of of systems I think is really insightful in regards to especially sense that is that's how we got here is we built sense of systems that so many people think that well that's just the way it is right.
(28:59):
It's actually well know it can be changed but i'm wondering about impact because one of things especially when we do film is we talk about impact campaigns and I know with climate of I actually have a unique approach because i'm integrating it from the very beginning it's going to be how we fund it it's going to be how we distribute it and who we choose to be in part of it.
(29:25):
And and all of those elements are from the ground up and sometimes for some documentaries it's almost like we just made it through like we got the fund in okay great now we can film okay great and and they're kind of these siloed places and then you get to the impact campaign you're almost like i'm so tired of this film it's like seven years later what do I do now.
(29:48):
Yes, I'm wondering like what through this process, how do you support creators storytellers filmmakers in this potential for impact campaigns.
What I've really come to embrace through a lot of observation and research and case studies and working with a lot of different artists putting a story out in the world at all has the potential to create an impact whether you intend for it to or not so in thinking about impact it's
(30:31):
a holistic approach of power you responsibly wielding that impact have you thought that through it comes from a place of understanding what you're showing it comes from a place of who you're amplifying are you what you know to what depth are you telling the truth or are you.
(30:54):
Including people who should be stakeholders in the story that's being told there's a multifaceted approach to I think interpreting what impact means and I think there will be a certain point in which.
If you are making a project for an advocacy purpose there's there will be a goal and there will be an impact that can be achieved through i'm making this film to do this or to have people and you know people.
(31:31):
I will never say that i'm the one voice of what impact means it's used in so many different ways for some people the impact is the emotional resonance that an audience feels and that is enough and that's the full conversation and that's totally fine and i'll never.
I'll say that in what i've really learned particularly through my academic research is how influential media really is and we're contributing to collective narrative memory we're contributing to identity for ourselves we are contributing to.
(32:06):
I think that if you don't think about the impact that your story can potentially have in a positive or a negative way that is something to really I think hold more responsibly in our role as media makers specifically something that is used so so.
(32:29):
So that's that's like the first part of the answer I think the second part of the answer is if you are someone that's creating because you have something to say or something you want to change wow what a powerful thing and your story can unlock some really amazing potential for that to happen i've seen stories.
spur conversations between people and communities who i'd never talked before and then they mobilized in made a movement i've seen impact the training policy makers and decision makers and lawyers to think differently about the cases that they're hearing the policies that they're making.
(33:07):
It's stopped bad decisions from happening it's encouraged good decisions to happen it is there's so much unlimited potential of what the impact of your film can be and you can really choose what is important to you in that is it building community is it reaching certain specific people to have a conversation is it.
(33:30):
mobilizing a movement is it shutting something down is it building something up is it changing where power is being distributed like ask yourself those questions what is the best version of how this story can.
And then you can influence the world and the issue that I care about start there and then think about and work with people who can tangibly help you think about what that could really look like who could be involved in that.
(33:59):
And i'll just plug one step further which is there if you are doing a film because you feel something but you're not doing the advocacy work on the ground i really encourage you to connect with people on the ground because your film might also be a bridge for people to learn about important work that's happening every day.
direct support those initiatives and you don't have to solve the world's problems but you sure can point to people who are working day and day out to try to do that and i think we need to think a lot more thoughtfully about ourselves as connectors and bridge builders to important initiatives people thought leaders.
(34:37):
That i think is another power that is certainly right for tapping when we're thinking about impact of our stories.
Yeah and that connects a lot with work that i know that you've been doing a lot of writing about which is this element of storytelling and democracy and i think that last point that you wanted to plug is really a big piece of that is.
(34:58):
You know of the people for the people and when that comes to let's say a climate story it is well who are the people that yet yes you are a part of it because you are a part of climate but if you're not touching it every day or having to make some of those large and small decisions about it on a regular basis.
You might not know and you know that's that's a movement that's happening throughout the arts throughout the humanities throughout governance is how to listen more to the people that are that are more directly involved because they're going to have incredible insights that.
(35:37):
And so I think that you know from an outside perspective no matter how much you research you're you're just never going to come across and so i'm curious if there's there's more to this idea of linking storytelling and democracy that that you feel is is important to share.
So I think the of whose stories are told is really important to me when thinking about democracy I think i'm existing in an entertainment system where there are certain films that get tons of financial support and resources saying an attention and there are films that have to do it all on their own.
(36:16):
And I think that if we want to really truly change the story of our cultural truths and i'll expand on that in just a second but we really are saying we want to change the story that is not going to happen from top down development.
We're going to keep creating a monoculture of the same people telling the same stories on a f of a business model that has proven for business purposes and I think where we're truly seeing innovation and when we're where we're seeing fresh perspectives where we're seeing perspectives that are based on lived experience that is coming from artists and if you know anything about supporting artists.
(36:59):
It's a hard journey to be an artist it's a hard journey to get to a place where you are supported it is a hard place to get to a place where people where your work is visible the hard hard fought hard one journey over and over and over again and so I think that that's not dissimilar from feeling like a singular voice in a democracy and wanting to advocate for your community for your perspective for.
(37:27):
Your take on what is happening which could be very, very valuable and unlock a lot of different ways into problem solving but if you are not heard or you don't have the access that is hugely problematic for democracy when things lean towards the same decision makers make the same decisions and we all live in the same broken systems and so I think.
(37:53):
First of all I think there's a really important connection between the society and the value system that we are living in has been designed by a certain type of people who have held power for a long time and if you don't redistribute that power you will not see different stories and you will not see a different way forward and so I think that is really important to be thinking about really understanding the deep connection between DEI initiatives and climate justice.
(38:22):
And climate justice we will not see decisions shift unless we change the decision makers and see different ways of world experiences that can inform what decisions are reached so that's that's one thing and then.
If you read a lot of screen plays which I have done as both a teacher and a reviewer and a judge on several when you start reading and reading and reading the stories and the stories that people are trying to tell.
(38:51):
You will really quickly see how many similarities there are between like what I'm going to do is stereotypes of characters or ways of solving problems or ways of going on these journeys as characters and you start to realize they may just be cultural truths but they may not be authentic to what that person they they're doing it because they're trying to accomplish a story framework that they know will be.
(39:20):
But it may not be that that is their truth and it's very interesting to me to work with artists and say what is your truth what's not the societal truth that you have been told and we see this arise in tropes stereotypes things that we see over and over again and people will write these things and not even realize that they've written them into their own stories because they've just.
(39:49):
Making it on as a part of their way of telling a story that feels.
Attemplatized to them and and I'm just very interested in breaking us out of that so when I say cultural truths I mean like these things that are our collective narrative memory and how do we show new things if we are.
shaping things to constantly fit a model that is a proven successful business model or proven successful story template will will just keep creating those.
(40:21):
Layers and layers of cultural truths that will adapt as truth but they not may not actually be a truth they may just be a trope or a stereotype or something that we have been told is the way that things are.
Yeah that's really insightful because whenever we hear that word truth we assume oh that's the thing right and you're encouraging in that moment to be like well let's let's double check let's let's take a moment let's take a breath and actually take a look at what we.
(40:51):
And so I really love that and I love where that kind of leads me into is that when I have these conversations I also like to look at you know because we've been talking now for about 50 minutes about all the superpowers that we have a storytellers and and these elements we have to to bring to the table the things that we can add to the conversation the things that we can be proud of that we have.
(41:19):
And there's also some things that we need to make sure that we're also on the lookout for and and challenging ourselves about through the process and cultural truths definitely seems like a legit one from this idea of storytelling and there's a couple other ones I would love if as you hear them.
And there's a couple of ways that you've seen them happen in the world and suggestions you have things that perhaps you've experienced or even working through yourself depending on your your comfort level with that but kind of some things that I've noticed that people of the metaphor type struggle with is a shiny object syndrome.
(41:59):
That's cool, oh that's cool you know we were actually joking before we started recording about our to do list that were just grown by the day of on a just on a unable time wise to get to all of them.
And there's also a you know when you talked about that pressure that artists have to get funding to support themselves to do this work it also that flip side can be a paralyzing fear of failure because if you fail it's it's so much harder to you know we even have terms like the soft moroc effect to describe you know with somebody's trying to get that second addition out of something and they struggle with it like the how that can take their career.
(42:42):
And also I think sometimes there is this bias that things that are more scientific perhaps or more business orientated are given so much more credence in this world that there is this bias against those things as trying to rebell against them or or their rigidity and within that I'm curious to see how you have found ways it a I'm here I'm seeing you shake your head so I'm guessing there's some resonance there.
(43:11):
But I'm curious ways that you either have worked through some of those things yourself or helped people work through in all the various amazing ways that you have to support people and overall comments.
Oh wow well yes I mean I'll just say I've of course have struggled with all of those things on my own journey.
(43:38):
And I think the shiny object syndrome that when I have not figured out that that I mean I just attribute it to I feel like personally I just have an un-satiable curiosity about everything.
I really do just enjoy learning new things all the time I enjoy coming up with new ideas I feel like when I am most creative it is my most healthy and happiest self so you know I do chase creativity and it's hard to finish things it's hard to see things through when you've got that new poll of oh what about this idea now or and I also feel like
(44:26):
the world is just so overwhelmingly that that's just particularly when you get into cause driven work there's so much to want to give your heart and attention to and I think is an activist it's super easy to burn out and I think artists are very emotional and so you also feel that emotional
(44:50):
and responsibility to everything that you see as interconnected and inter-laked and and you just can't possibly give all of your time and energy and attention and work and skillsets to every single thing no matter how much you feel your heart cracked wide open to do so and so I think like mediating that and just giving yourself permission to feel but knowing that you have to walk
(45:17):
your path and do what you can do and focus on the things that you have the power to change and that fuel you that's the other important thing is like it has to fuel you to stay engaged with it because otherwise you you will burn out and get to a really I think challenging place to get get out of and you'll find yourself searching for that so that was a deep
(45:44):
departure from your full question but it's that's hard I'm still working on that one I don't have any good answers if anyone does send me
but I think the other pieces of fear of failure and struggling as an artist I can say I very very much was just so absolutely terrified of a failing of asking for things of putting my ideas out there as I started
(46:13):
as an artist and I think since I've moved into a role of artist support and an educator and I really would encourage everyone to mentor or teach or try something where you can experience helping others on their artistic journey
(46:35):
and I think you will see so much of yourself and you will have this kind of like really portal experience of going this person is incredible their idea is amazing they have nothing but just mountains of aspirations and dreams in front of them
and I'm so excited for them and yet they're filled with doubt and self dread and you know self doubt and they're struggling to see their value and like you just want to pull that out of them and you want to believe in them and show them that they're the only thing holding themselves back
(47:10):
and then you kind of can pause and go oh someone advocated for that for me and that was me and I everyone feels this and can I take my own advice can I listen to what I'm telling another artist to do which is just go for it
and just believe like don't worry about what people say and like if you can almost give advice to take your own advice that really shifted for me
(47:42):
an understanding of what my fears were and an understanding of how to move forward and it really usually I would say most of the time is facing yourself
I think fear of asking for things and thinking that I was bothering people or not qualified enough yet or didn't have enough you know in place that perfectionism it has to be this perfect package before I show it to anyone
(48:08):
and now I exist in a space where people ask me for things all the time and they're very brazen about it and they just throw things your way and say what do you think about this or you know I'm working on this can you help me
and like it doesn't bother me at all it's like I start to see oh those are the people getting things done like my ideas sitting in a box that no one's looking at are not getting done
(48:32):
the people that are out there building community talking about their ideas being brave enough to share their 10 steps ahead of somebody that's sitting there afraid to share
and I know that's not an easy thing to hear I wouldn't have taken that advice probably 10 years ago but I know now that it really is about that relationship building and the confidence building in yourself to know that nothing bad is going to happen if you share
(49:04):
I promise and asking for things and sharing your ideas
at least at early stages you know there's there's a lot of risks to putting your creative work out there and that's a whole other conversation that everyone has to navigate in their own way
but I think if you just are called to create I really hope that you do I hope you do it for your own life experience I hope you do it for what feels you
(49:29):
and I hope that you don't let yourself be the only thing that holds you back because there's a lot of other things that we have to grapple with but you being your own barrier is certainly the one that I hope every artist gets gets passed
yeah and yeah that's that's a huge insight into how to look at that fear of failure is is through the lens of getting out of your own way and I think even more so this piece that you touched on that there's there's where we're kind of near the end of wrapping this up and there's normally two questions that I ask
(50:12):
and one you kind of walked into with with the way that you express this idea of putting your ideas out there and sharing is through relationship and kind of these last two questions one that I often ask about is looking through the lens that you look at life and the skill sets you have
and how do you view reciprocal relationships like you talked about from this idea of mentoring it's that you are getting actually the you're getting a whole new way to look at advice that you need for yourself
(50:43):
and when you're putting your ideas out there you're potentially building these relationships that can support one another and so I see reciprocity there I'm curious if there's anything else that you want to add either from a human to human
or we have a reciprocal relationship or this wider sense of how to look at it from an environmental standpoint as well
(51:07):
that's a really thoughtful concept I mean I I think reciprocity for me is deeply grounded in empathy and care so I think if if I can experience care from a relationship
that can mean a lot of different things in different situations but if I can experience care as a core tenant of a relationship and if I can give care that feels very reciprocal to me I think you know it's easy to feel what an extractive relationship feels like if you're not getting any sort of care in return so I think that's a big part of it for me personally
(51:51):
I forgot the second part of your question I'm sorry I think that's it was just exploring if because I think one of the things that is curious is you were talking with this idea of care
and and you're like we we understand unfortunately all too well what an extractive relationship looks like and that and fortunately that tends to be the bulk of our relationship with the environment is that you know I've I've gotten my thing out of it
(52:19):
but what am I how what is that what is the care that I'm giving back to that and so just just curious if you have especially since you work in this realm of a lot of stories that focus within the environmental climate space
if there's maybe a story that gave you insight about that or just a melding pot of an idea that's formed from having the exposure to all these different stories
(52:41):
the impact piece is really where I see that reciprocal relationship because if you are telling a story about a place or a community or you're a part of that community and you're telling that story I think the care of how will this affect the community how will this affect this place
how will this affect the outcome of the problem that I am presenting or the conflict that I am presenting and really really strongly considering that and choosing your actions carefully as a result of those considerations that is a reciprocal relationship with the holistic story
(53:18):
you know is your film going to cause harm is it going to increase traffic and then overly extracted from region is it going to affect people's livelihoods their public appearances their ability for upward mobility or are they getting nothing out of it and you took a story and then they didn't receive anything out of it
(53:45):
that is extractive and so I think seeing both the more ethical approach to filmmaking and storytelling that's emergent in our field and certainly considering you know the environmental impact that we have in caring for place and caring for practice and caring for what is it cost for you to do what you are doing
(54:12):
and are you restoring that place are you practicing reciprocity are you thinking about locally sourced things instead of exports from all over the world and further you know extraction and these are all really important questions I think there's so many different ways to look at our reciprocity and when you zoom out and think about our reciprocity with the planet
(54:37):
all of our choices to think about what what is my impact on this place in this time and how can it be a more positive one than a negative one and how can I not just participate in a system that I know for certain is negative what can be my piece of disrupting that even if it's small what is my small piece and disrupting that
(55:03):
I think I can't really tell you so much Heather I know that one of the things so that the last question is a bit of a curve ball so before I throw that curve ball here at the end I do want to preempt it because your answer might be to share with everybody that if you are interested in these topics if you do want to explore how do we get
(55:27):
that are done through Hollywood or other filming means I would encourage everybody to join Heather and I at the next Hollywood climate summit which is going to be June 24 through the 28th the summer is my understanding and so that's super exciting I'm glad it will be the fifth annual one and it keeps getting more of an impact and more people talking and meeting and connecting and so I preempt with that because the last question that I love to ever ask everybody is
(55:56):
what something that you wish I would have asked and didn't over the course of this conversation oh my gosh I don't think I have a question because you asked such a really thought provoking questions I think it's really just I think it's interesting to me leaving the concept of of questions because I grapple with these all the time like I'll just say I don't think there's any right way one right way
(56:25):
to do anything and so I just like this idea of continuing to ask questions and having an insatiable curiosity and I think that's just a really important part of being an artist of being a storyteller and of being a citizen in this world is just continuing to ask questions and really
(56:54):
to be a lifelong learning journey and that's just what I'll say about reflections from this conversation I'm still on a lifelong learning journey myself this is where I'm at right now but I think I think these are really thoughtful conversations that you're having and I really really appreciate the way that you're really opening up space to think about our relationship with our planet and our relationship with ourselves and each other so thank you.
(57:20):
Amazing thank you so much Heather such such a delight to spend this luxurious hour with you and to share with people listening and I look forward to continue to ask questions right alongside you and creating a stronger and stronger community thank you so much.
Thank you.
(57:41):
Hey Earthmate how did that episode resonate did it stretch you inspire you or perhaps or you I'm here for it so please reach out besides the socials we have a community to practice with on our website earth archetypes dot com where more
archetypes can guide your path and become dear friends a great place to start is the quiz to discover your type. Oh and on your way I'd love for you to hit the subscribe button see you again soon.
(58:16):
[music]
Popular Podcasts
Boysober
Have you ever wondered what life might be like if you stopped worrying about being wanted, and focused on understanding what you actually want? That was the question Hope Woodard asked herself after a string of situationships inspired her to take a break from sex and dating. She went "boysober," a personal concept that sparked a global movement among women looking to prioritize themselves over men. Now, Hope is looking to expand the ways we explore our relationship to relationships. Taking a bold, unfiltered look into modern love, romance, and self-discovery, Boysober will dive into messy stories about dating, sex, love, friendship, and breaking generational patterns—all with humor, vulnerability, and a fresh perspective.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com