May 3, 2021 • 32 mins
In this refreshing story of acculturation and everything that goes along with that, Fei Zao shares his story of immigration, job search, language difficulties, and more.
Amid the COVID-19 pandemic, Fei’s story is not political. It is not fraught with racism or discrimination. It is a very real, human story of an adult immigrant – with some surprises you won’t expect.
This series features interviews with people who have overcome significant difficulties by using the concepts of emotional intelligence.
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Amid the COVID-19 pandemic, Fei’s story is not political. It is not fraught with racism or discrimination. It is a very real, human story of an adult immigrant – with some surprises you won’t expect.
This series features interviews with people who have overcome significant difficulties by using the concepts of emotional intelligence.
---Connect with us!
https://facebook.com/eqatwork
https://instagram.com/eqatwork1
https://twitter.com/eqatwork1
YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/c/ATopCareer
Web Site
https://eqatwork.net
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
They are always seeming nice people there. They always give
you hope and the encouragement. That's why even today, as
they have the hope, there's always good things waiting for us.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
In this episode, Edith and our guests speak about the
immigration experience. For many immigrants, negative experiences occur when competing
for jobs alongside equally qualified Americans. However, this conversation is
quite different. It brings a refreshing positive look at American culture.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Hi, folks, I'm your host Edith Richards, and you may
know me from my podcast series Myers Briggs Question Corner
or my website at top career dot com. I've spent
the last twenty years of my career helping people get
smart about their careers, and I've found that lots of
smart people aren't successful. Why is that. I'm convinced it's
(01:07):
due to emotional intelligence. In EQ at work, I'm bringing
you inspiring people and messages to help you get smart
about your emotions. Many immigrants are drawn to the United
(01:30):
States with promises of prosperity. For hundreds of years, the
US has been known as the land of opportunity, and
we see this clearly in our multicultural makeup. The contributions
of immigrants have shaped our country as we know it,
and yet we Americans remain deeply polarized on the issue
(01:51):
of immigration. Today's topic is not political, it's the very
human story of a culturation and everything that goes along
with that. Immigrants experience unique stresses, prejudice, and often poverty.
As such, immigrants develop coping styles to adjust to their
new culture, but of course that comes with stress. Sometimes
(02:14):
that stress is positive. For example, the person may enjoy
being in a new culture and may look forward to
learning and adapting. Other times it can be negative, especially
when everything becomes overwhelming. For adult immigrants. This often happens
when applying for jobs competing alongside equally qualified Americans. I
(02:37):
hope that you will recognize in this story that we are,
in fact all in this together, this thing called life,
and I hope that together we share the same basic humanity.
And with that, I would like to introduce my guest today,
fay Zou Fay. Welcome to EQ at Work.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Hi, thank you, is a.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Research scientist and research engineer with a PhD in chemistry,
material science, and mechanical engineering, and it came to the
US nine years ago from China and is working with semiconductors. Faye,
Did I get all that right?
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yes, okay, great. So there's a story behind every decision
to immigrate. Can you share your story with us?
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Sure, yeah, I create exactly. It's a long story behind that.
And also, id to say, is a.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Very hot decision to make.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I have a long discussion with my wife and a
family before we finally moved. Their decision is about more
than one year. But eventually we decided to stay. I
think just because I mean for the purpose of my
kids education. Yeah, but for myself and my wife, you know,
we have to quit out drabs and everything from the
(04:01):
very beginning in a new country.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yeah, that's gotta be tough even to just make that decision,
even though you know it's in the best interest of
your child. Oh yes, yeah, So that was the main
reason for you to immigrate, was to have a better
life for your child.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (04:18):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
But then in doing so, and I've heard this from
other immigrants, it's almost like going backwards. But yes, what
were your first impressions of the US and what surprised you?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
I create the first and pression different from what expected
before I came to the US. Yeah, I saw a
lot of things from the Hollywood movies, you know, the
tall buildings. There were crowded people there. But when I
first came here, I didn't see the tall buildings. I
didn't see the busy traffic. I've seen very quiet. So
(04:54):
it's totally different from what expected.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
That's pretty funny. So you must have come in a
more rural area or more space, I guess when you
were first in the US.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Oh, yes, actually, yeah, I landed at the international airport,
so it's a little bit different.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Yeah. Right, And then when you're trying to transition to
American life, I imagine that was really difficult for you
in the beginning. Can you share what or who helped
you as you were acclimating to American culture.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, actually, it's really very hard at beginning. I think
the first and the most hard part is the language.
I didn't understand what you sing. Especially I couldn't order
in a restaurant. That's very hard for me to talk
on the phone because I don't understand that. Especially if
I want to make appointment to see a doctor, it's
(05:48):
very hard for me because I don't understand that question.
Or in the US, we have to have a car
right if you want to go anywhere either for growthery
strugging something. So that means I needed to get a
driver license first because at that time, my language when
a goods. I couldn't understand what the instructor was seeing.
(06:11):
So I feeled my driving test several times.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
So it was very hard.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Oh goodness, Yeah, a very specific question, just like they
asked me, was your DALB. I didn't know what that means.
The lady was very nice. Then she told me DOB
is date of birth. She repeated twice, and I finally
got it. So yeah, at first it's very frustrated, but
(06:39):
I had to see I've overcome all those kind of
difficulties because there are so many wonderful, great people there
to help along the way from the very beginning and
even now.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Wow, I'm just thinking here, when you're telling that dob
the date of birth story, it's just making me think
how much we take for granted, know, living in our
own culture. And you know, because we hear that all
the time, what's your DOB? And you know you're coming
at it from a completely different angle. And of course, yeah,
there's this acronym and so many others that are going
(07:13):
to leave you completely lost.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
So to improve my English, I think there are a
lot of programs provided by both the county and also
some non profit organizations. I did get a lot of
help from them.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
I think. First it's like.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
The ESL classes from the county that they have different levels,
so they haven't lodge from beginning to start improve my English.
But I think there was a taning point in my
life ever since I attended a ESL classes in a
(07:54):
local church.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
So you started attending ESL English as a second language
class through the county, and then you started attending ESL
classes at the church.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yes exactly, Okay, I've since I need the SL classes
as the church at the first I could continue to
have my English improves. But what's more important is I
have also get the opportunities to learn more about the
US customs, especially they have different activities to introduce, like
(08:26):
the effects giving the Christmas, the Easter, all kind of things.
And also we were invited to their home to have
lunch with them. Yeah, so that's helped a lot.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Yeah, because then you can actually relate to other Americans
in a more natural way.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yes, I think from that time I started to feel
a part of society.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
That's excellent.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, And what's more important is I think in the
ESL program as the church, we had a one to
one conversation partner. So during the summer break, that was
wonderful because my partner helped me, like learn how to
(09:13):
order meal in a restaurant. Yeah, that's a difficult part
for me before. And also helped me to create a
linkeding account because I told him I need to look
for a job.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
The LinkedIn account. Yes, okay, yeah, that's very important, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yes, that's why I said. It's a great turning point
for myself.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yeah. So this actually brings me to another question. When
you were in China. I'm sure you learned English in China,
but you still had trouble here with the language.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Oh yes, Before I came here, I did have a
lot of training on writing and reading, so I didn't
have an issue on that reading, but I didn't get
machining or opportunities on the speed or listening.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
I see. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah, were you working when you first came to the US.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Oh yes, I can hear it because I was a
post doctor at that time.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
I see. Okay, so you got a post doctorate and
that's why you were able to come. Oh, yes, but
you didn't realize I guess getting to the job search
part of the LinkedIn and how important that is.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, at that time I didn't realize, but now I
know it's very important.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Yes, So switching gears just a little bit here, and
I think we're going to get back shortly into the
whole job search part of your story. But before we
get to that, were there times that you felt unwelcome
as an immigrant and if so, can you talk about that?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Actually, to me, I didn't have the specific experience of
feeding welcome as immigrants.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
I think maybe.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Partially because I had very limited social activities. But I
think most of the time people I have met or
worked with or interacted with the very nice. Actually they
giving me a lot of hope and the encouragement.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
M that's really good to hear.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Actually, I was unemployed for about half year during that time,
so at that time I worked as.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
A delivery driver.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Delivery driver, yeah, delivery driver.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
And also at that time, you know, it's not that
good with the hourly pay is not that high, so
we have to rely on the tape.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yeah, right right.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, and sometimes let's see if we get the order
late or I have to drive for like a long
time to deliver the order, So some of the customers
may not be that happy. So some of them may
not give you any tape at all. Right, Yeah, and
you can imagine after you're driving in the darkness. For me,
(11:58):
like see twenty or five minutes, I've then got nothing.
So that was a very frustrated situation.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Yeah, it doesn't happen often, but it happened. But I
think the most important part is, wherever you have this
kind of situation frustration, you can always match wonderful people
feel very generous. They give you a good tip that
makes you feel a great day again. They are always
(12:26):
assuming nice people there. They always give you hope and encouragement.
That's why even today I still have the hope there's
always good things waiting for us.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
It's a very good reminder, I think for everybody tuning
in here is that life may throw you a lot
of difficulties, but there are always people there who want
to help, and there are ways to get through these
difficult situations.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Yes, exactly, Yeah, thank.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
You for reminding us about that. What advice do you
have for us? Others who are thinking about immigrating to
the US.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I think there are several things. The first, you need
to prepare for some potential challenges before you come here.
First thing, at in the language. Yeah, if you can
get more opportunities to improve your speak and listening, so
that's griached for you to overcome the difficulties in the
first step. Also, if you can hand some other kind
(13:28):
of skill set, yeah, so that may help you look
for some jobs at the beginning.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
It'll be easier for that.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Okay. So you mean if they have a specific skill
set for job searching. So yeah, if you're highly qualified
in your particular area of expertise, that's going to be
helpful when you come here to find a job.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yes, but you know, as as we have a dream,
so hold fast to it even if you don't have
any preparation.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
That's like me, don't about that that.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
They're always always either one of the people or great
programs there to help you out.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
And this is a good reminder too. No matter where
you are in the United States, there are programs to
help immigrants to adapt, So different acculturation programs, different language programs,
and then workforce development programs to help people get jobs.
And what I think is particularly interesting about your story,
(14:29):
fee is that you were able to find these resources
through the religious organizations, through churches, not just government or
county agencies.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Actually, I have to say that from both, but I
think the door was opened from the church ESL classes
to me. Maybe it's a very specific example. This is
also another chance for new immigrants to learn. It might
be helpful.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yeah, excellent. Is there anything else that you wish other
than language that you had known before you came to
the US.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I think the first thing is still it would be
better if you can learn some of the US customers
or something like that.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Yeah, what was very different for you in terms of
US customs as compared to Chinese?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I think, honestly, there are some things we didn't expect
because when I first can hear you see there so
many strangers, they are so very nice, and they're waiting
to help you. At first, you may not understand why. Yeah,
so at first it's confused me. Why thear so happy
to help you without asking for anything. Back to that time,
(15:44):
I didn't understand. Even though I didn't outstand, but because
of the repeated helps actually helped me encreage or overcome
the difficulties of frustration as the very beginning, and also
that helped me make the decision to stay.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I see, just because of the people you encountered and
how helpful they were to you.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Oh yes, and also because I have received so much help,
so much love, so much encouragement. And that's also why
today I want to stay here to help spread this
kind of encouragement to others.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
That's really great to hear. As I mentioned before, the
polarization on the issue of immigration among Americans, it's rampant
these days, and as you know, there's a lot of
divisiveness about immigrants, just especially recently in recent years. What
do you wish more Americans knew about immigrants?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
I think, first, based on my personal experiences, I don't
think most Americans knows about the immigration process. Yeah, because
if they don't have any friends or relatives, need to
go through that process. So I wish more Americans could
understand the process, because if you want to immigrant, sometimes
(17:07):
it may not depends on how hard we work, because
it's not a simple matter of if you work hard
or not. It may take a long time. Even if
you want to get a work permit first that allows
you to be able to work in the US.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
It takes a long time, and it's not always just
a matter of hard work. Would you say it's often
a matter of luck?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I think maybe sometimes like that, But it's also depends
on the persistence, because sometimes you say, if you're reading
for a long time, it's partly the situation would be
very frustrating, So it would be hard for immigrants especially
you have a family to support, you have to earn money,
but you're not allowed to work, So you can imagine
(17:53):
this kind of hard situation.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, that's something definitely. I wish more Americans would pay
attention to that too, because it's a long and arduous
process just to get the work permit, and then once
you're here, it's not like it's a walk in the park.
You have a lot of difficulties to overcome.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Oh yes, a lot of Americans they are very curious
about China. But maybe some of the information decors was
not that updated because from the description at my kid age,
my feeling was that they were describing a China that's
ours not familiar with. It was before I was born.
(18:34):
I think maybe definitely more communication, yeah, better, Yes.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yeah, it's funny you say that because you mentioned how
you know, you got a lot of your information about
the US from the media and from movies. Yes, and
that's how we get our information from China too, Right,
there's definitely going to be a lot of misperceptions there.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
And also I think for any is, I think they
may have no more about US than Americans knows about
the country where the immigrants was from.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Right, So the immigrants here, they're going to know more
about the US. So you're going to know more about
the US than most Americans know about China. Yes, yeah,
good point. Good point. So I know that you've had
some challenges regarding finding and sustaining employment as an immigrant.
(19:31):
Can you tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yes, Actually, we're the first generation immigrants, so you know
that means we have no relatives here, we have no
friends here, so it would be very hard for us
to get the recommendation when we look for a job.
We cannot get that kind of the supportive recommendation or
those positive recommendations. So the first step to get a
(19:57):
jobs in the US would be very very difficult for us,
especially for technical guys.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
So yeah, when you don't know anyone and there's no
one to vouch for you. Yeah, that can be really tough.
And most jobs still they're asking for either a recommendation
or a letter of reference or something like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, and it'd be even more difficult if your language
not as well. Maybe you're able to answer those questions
appropriately because you never touched those kind of questions before.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
So when you're talking about the kinds of questions there
do you meet in an interview situation? Yes, And are
you talking about like the non technical questions that we
often ask in interviews?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Yes, I think most of the questions. Yeah, maybe we
don't know how to answer all those non technical wives.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
So can you give us some examples of that, Some
questions that kind of threw you off in an interview?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
In why you have asked what would you do if
you met a very tough customer? So, because I never
had that kind of experience before, so it's very hard
for me to answer that question.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Okay. Also some of these hypothetical questions, yes, yeah, so
I guess in China they don't they don't do that.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, Actually I don't think I gave a proper answer.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Interviews are just they're so difficult for everyone because at
the end of the day, it really is subjective. But
when you get into more technical fields, I think, like,
for example, your field, it's a little bit of a
different story. They're going to be relying more on your
technical skills than these hypothetical questions. Would you say that's true?
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Oh? Yes, agreed? Yeah, I totally agreed.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Before I gotten my first job, submitted more than one
hundred resumes, but I didn't get many chances for an
interview my first job, actually I just submitted my resume indeed,
so it's a very simple process. But during the interview,
I was asked many technical questions. I'm good at answering
(22:08):
those kind of questions.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
I see. Okay, so you were able to get your
first job just randomly through indeed, by answering technical questions.
So that's good. Oh yes, And how about your current job?
Speaker 1 (22:22):
My current job, actually I was contacted by recruiters.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Okay, that's interesting. So how did they contact you? Do
you have your I guess through LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Or Honestly, I don't know where they got the information from,
either Liking or Indeed or Master because I posted my
resumes there, so I'm not sure. Which one I didn't
ask them. One thing I know is the information depot
was not updated, so that's why after the call me,
(22:54):
I had to send them updated the resume.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
I see, Okay, so they saw you out. So that's
also I think very helpful for listeners to know just
posting your resume on these job sites, it can help
to get you some exposure.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Oh yes, agreed, Yes.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
So is there anything else that you can share, any
helpful tips for other immigrant job seekers.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
I think there are different levels of job seeking. I
think firstly, maybe you can get some help from some
local workforce centers because there they can help you modify
your resumes and they can give you some training and
also they may have some some position there. But for
the professionals, I think it's better to have your resume
(23:40):
postage like the in liking or the monster or indeed unmntioned.
And also it's better to work with recruiters because they
are very professional and they can give you very good advice.
And also they can give you feedback even if you
feel maybe it's for your next you.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
That's really good advice to hear. Yeah, working with recruiters,
and there's so many recruiters out there, internal recruiters and
external recruiters like the ones. It sounds like you worked
with people who just find your information online. But the
feedback that you get from recruiters also very important because
a lot of folks tuning in may not be aware
(24:21):
of applicant tracking systems and how applicant tracking systems work
and aggregate your data. And so for any job that
you're applying to, the information really does need to be
tailored for that specific job, and recruiters can often help
with that process. So that's important to know. I think
it's also important to know that in today's world, it's
(24:43):
not the most qualified person who necessarily gets the job,
but it is the most visible person. So it sounds
like with Fay, you were very visible, Your resume was
easily found, and for that reason you're able to secure
this position.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
You have now, Yes, I think so.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
So if there are really two takeaways that I have
from this conversation. First is for new immigrants just to
seek out services, local services at local workforce centers or
even if there's a local church or a religious organization
that provides this type of support. That's one of the
first things immigrants should do. And Secondly, just know that
(25:26):
whatever negative experiences you have, if you have any, there
are always good people out there who are willing to help.
So those are my two takeaways from this conversation. Was
there anything else that you wanted to add, Fae?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
I think that's the second Tickree, I think that's most important.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Yeah, because it's.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Not only related to top searching, but also about your
attitude to life and work.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Excellent point. Thank you very much and very well, said Fay.
It has been a pleas as you're talking to you.
Thank you so much for your time and sharing your
story with us.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
No program. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Considering the difficulties many outsiders have in adjusting to life
in the US, especially now in the midst of the coronavirus,
I had been expecting Fae to share at least one
story of racism or discrimination. I was surprised, to say
the least, that he had no negative stories like that.
I was so surprised that I even asked him more
(26:39):
than once about negative experiences, and every time, instead of
dwelling on the negativity, he turned the situation into something positive,
like learning a new experience or meeting someone who helped him.
At one point, Fay said that even though before coming
to the US he should should have sought out more
(27:01):
opportunities to practice listening and speaking in everyday English. On
the other hand, if he had come with a better
command of the language, he probably would not have sought
out community resources and as a result, would not have
met so many influential and helpful people. And it is
(27:21):
a direct result of his relationship with those people that
gave him the professional opportunities that he has enjoyed. The
most meaningful part of my conversation with Fay was how
he never forgot to mention the people who helped him,
whether it was a smile and a hello while he
(27:41):
and his family were walking in the neighborhood, to someone
patiently repeating information over the phone, to providing a recommendation
for a job. It is clear that his interpersonal skills
are what helped Faye to both adjust and to get ahead.
Emotional intelligence element of interpersonal relationships is an important one
(28:04):
as it directly relates to our overall happiness and well being.
Interpersonal relationships is our ability and tendency to approach relationships
with others as mutually beneficial and building relationships with compassion
and trust. People who are skilled in this area seek
out the expertise and help of others, and in turn,
(28:28):
others seek them out because of their approachable nature. They
also tend to have good teamwork skills and good cross
functional communication skills. We heard several examples of this from Fay.
Every time he encountered a negative situation, he mentioned that
there was someone there to help him. Humans are by
(28:50):
nature social beings, and relationships are crucial to our success.
People who are not as skilled in this area may
see relationships with others as transactional. They may have several
acquaintances but few close personal friends. They may prefer to
work alone and rely on their own skills instead of
(29:14):
enlisting the expertise of others. If this sounds like you,
in your next interaction, observe the person you're speaking with
and try to gauge their level of comfort. If it's appropriate,
Slowly switch from impersonal to personal. Start with something relatively safe,
(29:34):
like what the person did over the weekend, and use
open ended questions. For example, instead of did you have
a nice weekend, ask how did you spend that three
day weekend? Or even more specific, I remember you said
you went to New York city recently. Did you visit
any fun places that you'd recommend? Talking with people, sharing
(29:57):
stories and hearing their viewpoints will go alone long way
in building a relationship. You'll also want to find people
you genuinely like and connect with, So give people the
benefit of the doubt and remember that every person you
meet knows something that you don't know. Show you're engaged
(30:18):
with the conversation, maintain eye contact and smile as much
as possible, show open body language. These subtle cues will
show that you're open to communicating and working with others,
and let's face it, we all need to get work
done through others. Finally, one more point I'd like to
(30:38):
mention is to keep up with old friends and acquaintances.
You never know when you might need a recommendation for
a job, or even just a listening ear. Well developed
relationships serve as a buffer from the negativity of life's demands.
But you don't have to have a huge group of
(30:59):
friends to get on with people. This ability is about
being able to build and sustain relationships when it's needed.
Give it a try yourself and put EQ to work.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Thanks for tuning in to another episode of EQ at Work.
If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a rating
on iTunes, give us a share, and be sure to
subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. We're looking to spread
the word and how important emotional intelligence really is, and
it would be great to have your help to do so.
(31:33):
Next week's episode is on unintentional leadership and our guest
is Cindy Mesaros, director of Alberta, Canada's Workforce Essential Skills Society.
If you've ever found yourself in a leadership role but
never intended to be, you'll want to be sure to
tune in. Thanks for supporting EQ at Work Until next time.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Five
They are always seeming nice people there. They always give
you hope and the encouragement. That's why even today, as
they have the hope, there's always good things waiting for us.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
In this episode, Edith and our guests speak about the
immigration experience. For many immigrants, negative experiences occur when competing
for jobs alongside equally qualified Americans. However, this conversation is
quite different. It brings a refreshing positive look at American culture.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Hi, folks, I'm your host Edith Richards, and you may
know me from my podcast series Myers Briggs Question Corner
or my website at top career dot com. I've spent
the last twenty years of my career helping people get
smart about their careers, and I've found that lots of
smart people aren't successful. Why is that. I'm convinced it's
(01:07):
due to emotional intelligence. In EQ at work, I'm bringing
you inspiring people and messages to help you get smart
about your emotions. Many immigrants are drawn to the United
(01:30):
States with promises of prosperity. For hundreds of years, the
US has been known as the land of opportunity, and
we see this clearly in our multicultural makeup. The contributions
of immigrants have shaped our country as we know it,
and yet we Americans remain deeply polarized on the issue
(01:51):
of immigration. Today's topic is not political, it's the very
human story of a culturation and everything that goes along
with that. Immigrants experience unique stresses, prejudice, and often poverty.
As such, immigrants develop coping styles to adjust to their
new culture, but of course that comes with stress. Sometimes
(02:14):
that stress is positive. For example, the person may enjoy
being in a new culture and may look forward to
learning and adapting. Other times it can be negative, especially
when everything becomes overwhelming. For adult immigrants. This often happens
when applying for jobs competing alongside equally qualified Americans. I
(02:37):
hope that you will recognize in this story that we are,
in fact all in this together, this thing called life,
and I hope that together we share the same basic humanity.
And with that, I would like to introduce my guest today,
fay Zou Fay. Welcome to EQ at Work.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Hi, thank you, is a.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Research scientist and research engineer with a PhD in chemistry,
material science, and mechanical engineering, and it came to the
US nine years ago from China and is working with semiconductors. Faye,
Did I get all that right?
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yes, okay, great. So there's a story behind every decision
to immigrate. Can you share your story with us?
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Sure, yeah, I create exactly. It's a long story behind that.
And also, id to say, is a.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Very hot decision to make.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I have a long discussion with my wife and a
family before we finally moved. Their decision is about more
than one year. But eventually we decided to stay. I
think just because I mean for the purpose of my
kids education. Yeah, but for myself and my wife, you know,
we have to quit out drabs and everything from the
(04:01):
very beginning in a new country.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yeah, that's gotta be tough even to just make that decision,
even though you know it's in the best interest of
your child. Oh yes, yeah, So that was the main
reason for you to immigrate, was to have a better
life for your child.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (04:18):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
But then in doing so, and I've heard this from
other immigrants, it's almost like going backwards. But yes, what
were your first impressions of the US and what surprised you?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
I create the first and pression different from what expected
before I came to the US. Yeah, I saw a
lot of things from the Hollywood movies, you know, the
tall buildings. There were crowded people there. But when I
first came here, I didn't see the tall buildings. I
didn't see the busy traffic. I've seen very quiet. So
(04:54):
it's totally different from what expected.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
That's pretty funny. So you must have come in a
more rural area or more space, I guess when you
were first in the US.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Oh, yes, actually, yeah, I landed at the international airport,
so it's a little bit different.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Yeah. Right, And then when you're trying to transition to
American life, I imagine that was really difficult for you
in the beginning. Can you share what or who helped
you as you were acclimating to American culture.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, actually, it's really very hard at beginning. I think
the first and the most hard part is the language.
I didn't understand what you sing. Especially I couldn't order
in a restaurant. That's very hard for me to talk
on the phone because I don't understand that. Especially if
I want to make appointment to see a doctor, it's
(05:48):
very hard for me because I don't understand that question.
Or in the US, we have to have a car
right if you want to go anywhere either for growthery
strugging something. So that means I needed to get a
driver license first because at that time, my language when
a goods. I couldn't understand what the instructor was seeing.
(06:11):
So I feeled my driving test several times.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
So it was very hard.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Oh goodness, Yeah, a very specific question, just like they
asked me, was your DALB. I didn't know what that means.
The lady was very nice. Then she told me DOB
is date of birth. She repeated twice, and I finally
got it. So yeah, at first it's very frustrated, but
(06:39):
I had to see I've overcome all those kind of
difficulties because there are so many wonderful, great people there
to help along the way from the very beginning and
even now.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Wow, I'm just thinking here, when you're telling that dob
the date of birth story, it's just making me think
how much we take for granted, know, living in our
own culture. And you know, because we hear that all
the time, what's your DOB? And you know you're coming
at it from a completely different angle. And of course, yeah,
there's this acronym and so many others that are going
(07:13):
to leave you completely lost.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
So to improve my English, I think there are a
lot of programs provided by both the county and also
some non profit organizations. I did get a lot of
help from them.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
I think. First it's like.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
The ESL classes from the county that they have different levels,
so they haven't lodge from beginning to start improve my English.
But I think there was a taning point in my
life ever since I attended a ESL classes in a
(07:54):
local church.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
So you started attending ESL English as a second language
class through the county, and then you started attending ESL
classes at the church.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yes exactly, Okay, I've since I need the SL classes
as the church at the first I could continue to
have my English improves. But what's more important is I
have also get the opportunities to learn more about the
US customs, especially they have different activities to introduce, like
(08:26):
the effects giving the Christmas, the Easter, all kind of things.
And also we were invited to their home to have
lunch with them. Yeah, so that's helped a lot.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Yeah, because then you can actually relate to other Americans
in a more natural way.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yes, I think from that time I started to feel
a part of society.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
That's excellent.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, And what's more important is I think in the
ESL program as the church, we had a one to
one conversation partner. So during the summer break, that was
wonderful because my partner helped me, like learn how to
(09:13):
order meal in a restaurant. Yeah, that's a difficult part
for me before. And also helped me to create a
linkeding account because I told him I need to look
for a job.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
The LinkedIn account. Yes, okay, yeah, that's very important, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yes, that's why I said. It's a great turning point
for myself.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yeah. So this actually brings me to another question. When
you were in China. I'm sure you learned English in China,
but you still had trouble here with the language.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Oh yes, Before I came here, I did have a
lot of training on writing and reading, so I didn't
have an issue on that reading, but I didn't get
machining or opportunities on the speed or listening.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
I see. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah, were you working when you first came to the US.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Oh yes, I can hear it because I was a
post doctor at that time.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
I see. Okay, so you got a post doctorate and
that's why you were able to come. Oh, yes, but
you didn't realize I guess getting to the job search
part of the LinkedIn and how important that is.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, at that time I didn't realize, but now I
know it's very important.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Yes, So switching gears just a little bit here, and
I think we're going to get back shortly into the
whole job search part of your story. But before we
get to that, were there times that you felt unwelcome
as an immigrant and if so, can you talk about that?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Actually, to me, I didn't have the specific experience of
feeding welcome as immigrants.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
I think maybe.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Partially because I had very limited social activities. But I
think most of the time people I have met or
worked with or interacted with the very nice. Actually they
giving me a lot of hope and the encouragement.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
M that's really good to hear.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Actually, I was unemployed for about half year during that time,
so at that time I worked as.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
A delivery driver.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Delivery driver, yeah, delivery driver.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
And also at that time, you know, it's not that
good with the hourly pay is not that high, so
we have to rely on the tape.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yeah, right right.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, and sometimes let's see if we get the order
late or I have to drive for like a long
time to deliver the order, So some of the customers
may not be that happy. So some of them may
not give you any tape at all. Right, Yeah, and
you can imagine after you're driving in the darkness. For me,
(11:58):
like see twenty or five minutes, I've then got nothing.
So that was a very frustrated situation.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Yeah, it doesn't happen often, but it happened. But I
think the most important part is, wherever you have this
kind of situation frustration, you can always match wonderful people
feel very generous. They give you a good tip that
makes you feel a great day again. They are always
(12:26):
assuming nice people there. They always give you hope and encouragement.
That's why even today I still have the hope there's
always good things waiting for us.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
It's a very good reminder, I think for everybody tuning
in here is that life may throw you a lot
of difficulties, but there are always people there who want
to help, and there are ways to get through these
difficult situations.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Yes, exactly, Yeah, thank.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
You for reminding us about that. What advice do you
have for us? Others who are thinking about immigrating to
the US.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I think there are several things. The first, you need
to prepare for some potential challenges before you come here.
First thing, at in the language. Yeah, if you can
get more opportunities to improve your speak and listening, so
that's griached for you to overcome the difficulties in the
first step. Also, if you can hand some other kind
(13:28):
of skill set, yeah, so that may help you look
for some jobs at the beginning.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
It'll be easier for that.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Okay. So you mean if they have a specific skill
set for job searching. So yeah, if you're highly qualified
in your particular area of expertise, that's going to be
helpful when you come here to find a job.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yes, but you know, as as we have a dream,
so hold fast to it even if you don't have
any preparation.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
That's like me, don't about that that.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
They're always always either one of the people or great
programs there to help you out.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
And this is a good reminder too. No matter where
you are in the United States, there are programs to
help immigrants to adapt, So different acculturation programs, different language programs,
and then workforce development programs to help people get jobs.
And what I think is particularly interesting about your story,
(14:29):
fee is that you were able to find these resources
through the religious organizations, through churches, not just government or
county agencies.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Actually, I have to say that from both, but I
think the door was opened from the church ESL classes
to me. Maybe it's a very specific example. This is
also another chance for new immigrants to learn. It might
be helpful.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yeah, excellent. Is there anything else that you wish other
than language that you had known before you came to
the US.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I think the first thing is still it would be
better if you can learn some of the US customers
or something like that.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Yeah, what was very different for you in terms of
US customs as compared to Chinese?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I think, honestly, there are some things we didn't expect
because when I first can hear you see there so
many strangers, they are so very nice, and they're waiting
to help you. At first, you may not understand why. Yeah,
so at first it's confused me. Why thear so happy
to help you without asking for anything. Back to that time,
(15:44):
I didn't understand. Even though I didn't outstand, but because
of the repeated helps actually helped me encreage or overcome
the difficulties of frustration as the very beginning, and also
that helped me make the decision to stay.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I see, just because of the people you encountered and
how helpful they were to you.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Oh yes, and also because I have received so much help,
so much love, so much encouragement. And that's also why
today I want to stay here to help spread this
kind of encouragement to others.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
That's really great to hear. As I mentioned before, the
polarization on the issue of immigration among Americans, it's rampant
these days, and as you know, there's a lot of
divisiveness about immigrants, just especially recently in recent years. What
do you wish more Americans knew about immigrants?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
I think, first, based on my personal experiences, I don't
think most Americans knows about the immigration process. Yeah, because
if they don't have any friends or relatives, need to
go through that process. So I wish more Americans could
understand the process, because if you want to immigrant, sometimes
(17:07):
it may not depends on how hard we work, because
it's not a simple matter of if you work hard
or not. It may take a long time. Even if
you want to get a work permit first that allows
you to be able to work in the US.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
It takes a long time, and it's not always just
a matter of hard work. Would you say it's often
a matter of luck?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I think maybe sometimes like that, But it's also depends
on the persistence, because sometimes you say, if you're reading
for a long time, it's partly the situation would be
very frustrating, So it would be hard for immigrants especially
you have a family to support, you have to earn money,
but you're not allowed to work, So you can imagine
(17:53):
this kind of hard situation.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, that's something definitely. I wish more Americans would pay
attention to that too, because it's a long and arduous
process just to get the work permit, and then once
you're here, it's not like it's a walk in the park.
You have a lot of difficulties to overcome.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Oh yes, a lot of Americans they are very curious
about China. But maybe some of the information decors was
not that updated because from the description at my kid age,
my feeling was that they were describing a China that's
ours not familiar with. It was before I was born.
(18:34):
I think maybe definitely more communication, yeah, better, Yes.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yeah, it's funny you say that because you mentioned how
you know, you got a lot of your information about
the US from the media and from movies. Yes, and
that's how we get our information from China too, Right,
there's definitely going to be a lot of misperceptions there.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
And also I think for any is, I think they
may have no more about US than Americans knows about
the country where the immigrants was from.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Right, So the immigrants here, they're going to know more
about the US. So you're going to know more about
the US than most Americans know about China. Yes, yeah,
good point. Good point. So I know that you've had
some challenges regarding finding and sustaining employment as an immigrant.
(19:31):
Can you tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yes, Actually, we're the first generation immigrants, so you know
that means we have no relatives here, we have no
friends here, so it would be very hard for us
to get the recommendation when we look for a job.
We cannot get that kind of the supportive recommendation or
those positive recommendations. So the first step to get a
(19:57):
jobs in the US would be very very difficult for us,
especially for technical guys.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
So yeah, when you don't know anyone and there's no
one to vouch for you. Yeah, that can be really tough.
And most jobs still they're asking for either a recommendation
or a letter of reference or something like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, and it'd be even more difficult if your language
not as well. Maybe you're able to answer those questions
appropriately because you never touched those kind of questions before.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
So when you're talking about the kinds of questions there
do you meet in an interview situation? Yes, And are
you talking about like the non technical questions that we
often ask in interviews?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Yes, I think most of the questions. Yeah, maybe we
don't know how to answer all those non technical wives.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
So can you give us some examples of that, Some
questions that kind of threw you off in an interview?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
In why you have asked what would you do if
you met a very tough customer? So, because I never
had that kind of experience before, so it's very hard
for me to answer that question.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Okay. Also some of these hypothetical questions, yes, yeah, so
I guess in China they don't they don't do that.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, Actually I don't think I gave a proper answer.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Interviews are just they're so difficult for everyone because at
the end of the day, it really is subjective. But
when you get into more technical fields, I think, like,
for example, your field, it's a little bit of a
different story. They're going to be relying more on your
technical skills than these hypothetical questions. Would you say that's true?
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Oh? Yes, agreed? Yeah, I totally agreed.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Before I gotten my first job, submitted more than one
hundred resumes, but I didn't get many chances for an
interview my first job, actually I just submitted my resume indeed,
so it's a very simple process. But during the interview,
I was asked many technical questions. I'm good at answering
(22:08):
those kind of questions.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
I see. Okay, so you were able to get your
first job just randomly through indeed, by answering technical questions.
So that's good. Oh yes, And how about your current job?
Speaker 1 (22:22):
My current job, actually I was contacted by recruiters.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Okay, that's interesting. So how did they contact you? Do
you have your I guess through LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Or Honestly, I don't know where they got the information from,
either Liking or Indeed or Master because I posted my
resumes there, so I'm not sure. Which one I didn't
ask them. One thing I know is the information depot
was not updated, so that's why after the call me,
(22:54):
I had to send them updated the resume.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
I see, Okay, so they saw you out. So that's
also I think very helpful for listeners to know just
posting your resume on these job sites, it can help
to get you some exposure.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Oh yes, agreed, Yes.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
So is there anything else that you can share, any
helpful tips for other immigrant job seekers.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
I think there are different levels of job seeking. I
think firstly, maybe you can get some help from some
local workforce centers because there they can help you modify
your resumes and they can give you some training and
also they may have some some position there. But for
the professionals, I think it's better to have your resume
(23:40):
postage like the in liking or the monster or indeed unmntioned.
And also it's better to work with recruiters because they
are very professional and they can give you very good advice.
And also they can give you feedback even if you
feel maybe it's for your next you.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
That's really good advice to hear. Yeah, working with recruiters,
and there's so many recruiters out there, internal recruiters and
external recruiters like the ones. It sounds like you worked
with people who just find your information online. But the
feedback that you get from recruiters also very important because
a lot of folks tuning in may not be aware
(24:21):
of applicant tracking systems and how applicant tracking systems work
and aggregate your data. And so for any job that
you're applying to, the information really does need to be
tailored for that specific job, and recruiters can often help
with that process. So that's important to know. I think
it's also important to know that in today's world, it's
(24:43):
not the most qualified person who necessarily gets the job,
but it is the most visible person. So it sounds
like with Fay, you were very visible, Your resume was
easily found, and for that reason you're able to secure
this position.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
You have now, Yes, I think so.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
So if there are really two takeaways that I have
from this conversation. First is for new immigrants just to
seek out services, local services at local workforce centers or
even if there's a local church or a religious organization
that provides this type of support. That's one of the
first things immigrants should do. And Secondly, just know that
(25:26):
whatever negative experiences you have, if you have any, there
are always good people out there who are willing to help.
So those are my two takeaways from this conversation. Was
there anything else that you wanted to add, Fae?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
I think that's the second Tickree, I think that's most important.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Yeah, because it's.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Not only related to top searching, but also about your
attitude to life and work.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Excellent point. Thank you very much and very well, said Fay.
It has been a pleas as you're talking to you.
Thank you so much for your time and sharing your
story with us.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
No program. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Considering the difficulties many outsiders have in adjusting to life
in the US, especially now in the midst of the coronavirus,
I had been expecting Fae to share at least one
story of racism or discrimination. I was surprised, to say
the least, that he had no negative stories like that.
I was so surprised that I even asked him more
(26:39):
than once about negative experiences, and every time, instead of
dwelling on the negativity, he turned the situation into something positive,
like learning a new experience or meeting someone who helped him.
At one point, Fay said that even though before coming
to the US he should should have sought out more
(27:01):
opportunities to practice listening and speaking in everyday English. On
the other hand, if he had come with a better
command of the language, he probably would not have sought
out community resources and as a result, would not have
met so many influential and helpful people. And it is
(27:21):
a direct result of his relationship with those people that
gave him the professional opportunities that he has enjoyed. The
most meaningful part of my conversation with Fay was how
he never forgot to mention the people who helped him,
whether it was a smile and a hello while he
(27:41):
and his family were walking in the neighborhood, to someone
patiently repeating information over the phone, to providing a recommendation
for a job. It is clear that his interpersonal skills
are what helped Faye to both adjust and to get ahead.
Emotional intelligence element of interpersonal relationships is an important one
(28:04):
as it directly relates to our overall happiness and well being.
Interpersonal relationships is our ability and tendency to approach relationships
with others as mutually beneficial and building relationships with compassion
and trust. People who are skilled in this area seek
out the expertise and help of others, and in turn,
(28:28):
others seek them out because of their approachable nature. They
also tend to have good teamwork skills and good cross
functional communication skills. We heard several examples of this from Fay.
Every time he encountered a negative situation, he mentioned that
there was someone there to help him. Humans are by
(28:50):
nature social beings, and relationships are crucial to our success.
People who are not as skilled in this area may
see relationships with others as transactional. They may have several
acquaintances but few close personal friends. They may prefer to
work alone and rely on their own skills instead of
(29:14):
enlisting the expertise of others. If this sounds like you,
in your next interaction, observe the person you're speaking with
and try to gauge their level of comfort. If it's appropriate,
Slowly switch from impersonal to personal. Start with something relatively safe,
(29:34):
like what the person did over the weekend, and use
open ended questions. For example, instead of did you have
a nice weekend, ask how did you spend that three
day weekend? Or even more specific, I remember you said
you went to New York city recently. Did you visit
any fun places that you'd recommend? Talking with people, sharing
(29:57):
stories and hearing their viewpoints will go alone long way
in building a relationship. You'll also want to find people
you genuinely like and connect with, So give people the
benefit of the doubt and remember that every person you
meet knows something that you don't know. Show you're engaged
(30:18):
with the conversation, maintain eye contact and smile as much
as possible, show open body language. These subtle cues will
show that you're open to communicating and working with others,
and let's face it, we all need to get work
done through others. Finally, one more point I'd like to
(30:38):
mention is to keep up with old friends and acquaintances.
You never know when you might need a recommendation for
a job, or even just a listening ear. Well developed
relationships serve as a buffer from the negativity of life's demands.
But you don't have to have a huge group of
(30:59):
friends to get on with people. This ability is about
being able to build and sustain relationships when it's needed.
Give it a try yourself and put EQ to work.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Thanks for tuning in to another episode of EQ at Work.
If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a rating
on iTunes, give us a share, and be sure to
subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. We're looking to spread
the word and how important emotional intelligence really is, and
it would be great to have your help to do so.
(31:33):
Next week's episode is on unintentional leadership and our guest
is Cindy Mesaros, director of Alberta, Canada's Workforce Essential Skills Society.
If you've ever found yourself in a leadership role but
never intended to be, you'll want to be sure to
tune in. Thanks for supporting EQ at Work Until next time.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
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