April 12, 2021 • 39 mins
Podcast host and meaningful work advocate Dan Smolen talks about his journey to becoming an entrepreneur. Dan shares actionable steps for starting a business and personal reflections to help you shape the course of your future.
EQ at Work is brought to you by career counselor Edythe Richards (MBTI Question Corner). This series features interviews with people who have overcome significant difficulties by using the concepts of emotional intelligence. We publish every Monday.
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Dan's Twitter page.
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Dan's Web Site.
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EQ at Work is brought to you by career counselor Edythe Richards (MBTI Question Corner). This series features interviews with people who have overcome significant difficulties by using the concepts of emotional intelligence. We publish every Monday.
---Connect with us!
https://facebook.com/eqatwork
https://instagram.com/eqatwork1
https://twitter.com/eqatwork1
YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/c/ATopCareer
Web Site
https://eqatwork.net
------------------------------------------------
Dan's Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/dan.smolen/
Dan's Podcast page on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/dansmolen.podcast
Dan's Twitter page.
https://twitter.com/dansmolen
Dan's Web Site.
https://dansmolen.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
And if you sense something is wrong, you can go
to that other person and say, I'm not asking you
to confide in me. All I want to say is
I sense that something's not right, and I just wanted
to let you know that I recognize that, and if
you ever do want to speak to me, I'm here
to listen. That goes a long way in how we
(00:24):
deal with relationships, not just in life, but at work,
because when you're not functioning at work, forget it, it's
not going to work out.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
In this episode, host Edith and her guest Dan Smallan
talk about entrepreneurship, what is I to start and grow
a business, and the importance of meaningful work.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Hi folks, I'm your host Edith Richards, and you may
know me from my podcast series Meyers Briggs Question Corner
or my website at top career dot com. I've spent
the last twenty years of my career helping people get
smart about their careers. And I've found that lots of
smart people aren't successful. Why is that. I'm convinced it's
(01:18):
due to emotional intelligence in EQ at work, I'm bringing
you inspiring people and messages to help you get smart
about your emotions. It's well known that emotional intelligence is
(01:42):
linked to job satisfaction. Many studies have shown correlation between
high EQ and high workplace satisfaction. We all know that
in today's world, people expect something deeper than a paycheck
in return for their efforts. They expect meaning in their jobs.
With us today to talk about the link between meaningful work, entrepreneurship,
(02:05):
and emotional intelligence is Dan Smollen. Dan is a veteran
executive recruiter turned nationally recognized thought leader in workforce and
workplace topics. Now he is the host and executive producer
of the Dan Smollen Podcast, which helps listeners navigate the
(02:25):
future of work to do truly meaningful work. You can
subscribe to the Dan Smollen Podcast on a variety of
channels including Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, and Stitcher. Dan,
I have got to admit that I feel like we're
switching roles here. Finally, I'm interviewing you for a change.
(02:47):
You've had quite an interesting career, which I'm a bit
in awe of, especially how you've made the leap from
quote unquote worker to entrepreneur. And I think a lot
of folks tuning in today are going to be interested
to hear not only how you made that leap, but
what you learned along the way. But let's start with
(03:07):
an easy question, how would you describe your professional self?
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Well, first off, Edith, what a delight to be on
a podcast with you where I am the guest and
you're the host.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I know, right, it's really exciting for me too.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Well, you asked an interesting question. How I answer that is,
I believe I help people in the workforce to real
time imagine work for themselves that is profound, protects the planet,
empowers people in communities, and it's fun to do meaningful work.
Beyond that, I report on how the future of work
(03:44):
is becoming present in our lives. In our sudden pivotal
way from what is often called co located work, which
is working with other people in an office setting, we're
shifting to more remote work and hybrid work and vironments,
and that is happening right now in twenty twenty one.
So I feel like I'm getting back to my reporter
(04:06):
roots describing how these future of work changes are becoming
present tense.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Yeah, and there sure have been a lot of changes
over the past year, and it really begs the question,
what is the future of work going to look like.
And I'd like to ask you a question about your
career progression before we get into the kind of nitty
gritty of that. Can you talk about your career progression,
because you certainly didn't start out as an entrepreneur, nor
(04:36):
did you start out, I think, seeking to become an
advocate for meaningful work. But how did you know that
you didn't want to work in a traditional nine to
five kind of job.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Well, I didn't know that initially, and I think it's
why I had a four act progression in my careers.
You asked me to take you through it, and I'll
gladly do that. Back in college, I started as an
on air reporter, and previous to that, I was a
scholastic journalist in high school in Maryland outside of Washington, DC.
(05:09):
So I thought I was going to be a journalist,
either in print or on radio. I loved radio. I
love the intimacy of it, and as a college student
I got good at it. I was on the air
quite a bit, and I thought that that was going
to be what I would do for a career. Didn't happen.
(05:30):
As I graduated college in a really terrible economy, I
was encouraged to get into advertising and marketing, and that
was my second career act. I spent several years in
the ad agency space, representing some very top clients in
both their marketing and account management needs. And imagine, if
(05:55):
you will, I was a twenty seven year old guy
with a lot of ambition and not a lot of
experience and a tremendous amount of responsibility. But as they say,
nothing last forever. And then I went into my third act,
which was probably my longest so far, and that was
a twenty year stint in executive recruitment, the first seven
(06:15):
years working for a woman named Victoria James, who I
actually worked for during my second act in the agency space.
And then I decided seven years in that I wanted
to be an entrepreneur. I wanted to go at this
on my own, so I hung my own shingle and
I started my own recruitment agency and I did that
(06:38):
for thirteen years and it was very successful at it.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Can I ask you what actually you said that you
wanted to become an entrepreneur? Why did you want to
become an entrepreneur? What was it? Was there something that
you were dissatisfied with in the quote unquote traditional workspace
or was it just kind of an idea that you had.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Well, I think some of it was latent in my DNA.
I love solving problems. I actually liked having a business.
I liked the responsibility of creating and sustaining something that
had the benefit of helping others.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Nice, Well, that's great, and then I guess as an entrepreneur,
you could probably do that more to the parameters of
kind of what you thought was meaningful, just to start
to pivot into meaningful work there that would probably just
having your own agency would probably tick that box a
little more than working for someone else.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I wanted to add one thing though, because that was
my third act, and I figured, oh, okay, I can
do this the rest of my life. I can be
a recruiter. I could live anywhere. When you are a recruiter,
you can work virtually and have mobile technology. And you know,
my wife dreamed years ago of retiring on on a
Capri which is the top of the Aisle of Capri
(08:00):
to Italy, and I was like, how would I do that?
But I could have I didn't stay a recruiter. About
three years ago I reached a point where the success
measures were going retrograde. I was very good at retaining
people in their work, in allowing them to find opportunities
to be happy. But what was happening to me was
(08:21):
that the clients that I had were great people. I
loved them. Unfortunately, the assignments that I was getting from
them and the culture in their companies was growingly discordant.
What I mean by that is I would put somebody
in a position that was, let's say a business development manager,
which has some elements of marketing and planning involved. What
(08:43):
I discovered is that my clients really wanted was pure
salespeople and not the hunter gatherer type, the type that
works off of the phone and calls people cold calling.
I mean, nobody really cold calls anymore, but that's what
they wanted. And oftentimes I was getting reached back from
my place client saying, Dan, I'm miserable. I never really
had that. But I know we're talking about emotional intelligence
(09:07):
on this episode, and I had to tap into that
and say, wait a minute, what is going on here?
And am I contributing to their misery? And I had
to make a decision, Edith, And the decision was I
either double down, try to find some new clients, keep
up recruiting, or I had to ask myself, is this
the time to exit out and do something else? And
(09:30):
I took the road less traveled, as you know, which
pivoted me into my fourth act, which is being a
podcaster and a thought leader around the areas of future
of work and meaningful work. So that's how I've come
full circle in my career. And now I'm dealing with
the issues that I never dealt with as a recruiter
because as a recruiter, you're hired by the hiring manager.
(09:53):
They are the ones calling the shots. Now I am
talent focused, I am people focused, and I'm trying to
respond to people in a way that helps them direct
more purpose and more enjoyment out of their careers and
hopefully by extension, their lives.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, let's hope. So, and I have no doubt that
you're doing that for a lot of people. And you know,
speaking of that kind of making that pivot between working
for the hiring manager versus working for the talent, I
can't help but think about this disconnect there is between,
you know, what the leaders of these organizations think is
(10:33):
important and what people are trying to do to create
meaning in their own space. It just seems like this
disconnect is bigger than ever now. And I would have
thought that the times we're living in would have minimized
that a bit. But I personally don't see that happening,
do you.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
That's an interesting question. I actually think that the tumult
that we are dealing with right now is uncovering these things.
I'll give you an example. Sometimes a hiring manager would
say to me, Dan, I want you to go out.
This is a cache organization. I want you to go
out and find me people who only have IVY League backgrounds. Now,
(11:15):
when I say IVY League backgrounds, I'm not talking about Cornell.
I want either Harvard or Yale or Wharton School of Business. Okay,
and think about it, and I say, all right, fine,
Then I would discover that's that person's pedigree. Why are
they hiring themselves? If you're going to hire somebody, why
(11:35):
don't you hire somebody who brings a completely different value set,
because maybe hiring you is the problem.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yeah, we see this all the time in the corporate world.
People they don't always have this awareness of what they
need on their teams. They need someone else who has
a different skill set. We all can't be good at everything, right, we.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Can't all be good at everything. But I think that
emotional intelligence plays into this because it takes somebody really
eq strong to say, maybe I got to hire somebody
completely different from me stylistically, background wise, if I'm a
white guy, maybe a woman of color, maybe somebody from
(12:21):
a different scholastic background and a different life experience background.
Because when we tend to hire ourselves, you know, maybe
we perpetuate some good aspects. Maybe I find somebody who,
like me, is a strong hunter sales type who knows
how to drive revenue and scale revenue scale. Maybe I'm
(12:43):
perpetuating all the bad habits. Maybe I'm ignoring market opportunities
because I only know what I know, and I don't
know what I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
That's a great way to put it, because when we're
talking about emotional intelligence, I mean it takes someone who
not only is aware of their own strengths and weaknesses
and is able to use that when they're, you know,
in this case, sourcing candidates, but also has that level
of self regard that they're not threatened by someone who
(13:14):
has a different skill set than they do. What would
you do to that.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Well, I would agree with you. You know, I spent a
tremendous amount of my career in the advertising space, which
couldn't have been more white and more male. And the sensibilities,
even the management tropes are usually around competitive sports. Get
on the team, uh huh, don't sit on the bench,
(13:39):
you know, get a little dirty in the playground, you know.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
And how has that changed today?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Well, it's changing. I don't know that it's changed. I
think this is the opportunity this decade. Yeah, with a
distributed workforce, perhaps we are able to bring on people
into kinds of work that that they would not normally
have been able to do because they had to travel
too far, or they had some something in the way,
(14:07):
maybe childcare or you know, some other hindrance. I'm hoping
that we get smarter about hiring all kinds of people
for all kinds of work and not be afraid of it.
Let it liberate us. Think about if we bring in
new kinds of people, they may actually open up new
(14:27):
markets for us, or they will think about the execution
of a plan differently that will create better and perhaps
even different outcomes that we've never thought about. And I
think the old school of management tends to be very,
very white and very hierarchical. And I'd like, indeed, and
(14:47):
I'd like to see more bottom up ideation, because you
know what, sometimes the man or woman or person on
the factory floor has the best ideas.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
No kidding. But the question then becomes, how do you
get these leaders at the top to buy into this.
It's a bit of a rhetorical question.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Now, Oh, I think you hire more women. You purpose
yourself to make sure that you're not hiring, that you're
not considering hiring people of color and differing backgrounds and experiences.
I mean, I think about and I don't remember the
gentleman's name, the CEO of Low's Corporation, which is in
the home improvement business. They compete against Home Depot. African
(15:30):
American gentleman with a very interesting backstory, grew up poor,
suffered a lot of discrimination, and yet he's running one
of the most amazing companies out there and he's reimagining
it for the twenty first century. That's not a knock
on Home Depot. This is because this man brings this
(15:51):
set of experiences that are so unlike what you typically
see among blue chip companies in the United States. Uh huh.
And my hope is by breaking the old culture paradigms
and creating new ones, work is going to change. How
we use emotional intelligence at work is going to be
(16:12):
liberated because we're going to have all these new perspectives
in place that are going to be fresh and free
us from the old. I don't know how else to
put it, but I think it's a real opportunity.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
I definitely agree with you there, because when we're talking
about emotional intelligence, there's just so many misconceptions about what
it is. And I love that example that you just
gave because it shows how someone has used this element
of flexibility to work for him and to grow his business.
And speaking of emotional intelligence, you've taken the EQI assessment,
(16:49):
so you are familiar with all of these elements of
emotional intelligence and also where your natural tendencies lie. What
does emotional intelligence mean to you and how does it
relate to both your career and you know where you
think that the world is going.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Well, let's start with me. I think it means that
I can get into most any situation and read the room,
read what is going on, read what people are saying,
feel what the room is telling me in terms of energy,
but also intent, and respond in a way that creates
(17:27):
forward progress. So what does that mean? I especially learn
this in recruiting. Oftentimes you are dealing with competing interests.
How do you get a candidate who's one way and
a hiring manager who says it's got to be another way?
And how do you find the bridges in their divide?
And I think I learned that from emotional intelligence. Part
(17:49):
of it is just sitting back and listening and seeing
what bubbles up, because oftentimes we hear words, but we
don't hear intent, and so sometimes it takes a little
time to bridge that divide. But I think EQ has
helped me get to that point. And my success or
lack of success comes from active listening, but also from
my intuition, which I think is very strong.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I can be in a room and I can feel
an energy. Sometimes it's from a micro expression or a
nonverbal expression, and I can see, uh, oh I've hit
a touch point, back off or redirect.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
So here's a question for you about that, because I
think a lot of people tuning in they might hear
what you're saying, but they might not have such a
strong intuition as you do. So how do you gauge
whether you're right or wrong? I guess is the question
I want to ask here.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I had a situation many many years ago before I
was recruiting in the agency space and one of our
team members just had a look on her face as
if the bottom that dropped off. And I'm sitting watching
in the meeting, and immediately I knew something was wrong
because she was completely different in her demeanor. She was
usually a very outgoing person, but I could see there
(19:04):
was something. There was something different. I felt this energy.
She looked hollow, like desiccated. I don't know how to
explain it. We weren't close friends, but I pulled her
aside and I said, so and so, I sensed that
something's going on with you. And I'm not prying, but
I just wanted to let you know that I'm sensing
(19:27):
it and I feel for you, and if there's something
that I could do, would you please let me know?
Would you do that. I'm here to listen, not judge.
And she nodded and went away and figured, okay, that's fine.
And about three days later she came to me and
she said, my husband just filed divorce on me and
(19:47):
this was the love of my life. Oh and it's
rocked my world and I don't know how to get
through the day. And she, you know, she wasn't returning
phone calls, and she wasn't this, and wasn't that. And
I think not re acquiring her to respond, but me
to say I feel it. Yeah, was a breakthrough moment,
which I think back in those days probably didn't happen
(20:10):
very much, because you know, when we deal with grief
at work, it's often you know, bucket up, you know,
take the day off to go deal with your problems
and come back, you know, hitting the ground hard. But
this poor woman, I mean, this is her. I don't
know if it was a college sweetheart or a high
school sweetheart, dude left, moved out, I don't know what
the circumstances were, but this woman's grief was so palpable
(20:33):
that it directed me away from all the other things
I had to deal with because I could see one
of my team members was suffering. Yeah, and she didn't
work for me, she worked with me. And that's sort
of how I use intuition. It's not a secret power.
I think that many people have intuitive strengths. Mine tend
to be very heightened, but I think most people have
(20:56):
some degree of it. And if you sense something is wrong,
you can go to that other person and say, I'm
not asking you to confide in me. All I want
to say is I sense that something's not right, and
I just wanted to let you know that I recognize that,
and if you ever do want to speak to me,
I'm here to listen. That goes a long way in
(21:17):
how we deal with relationships, not just in life, but
at work, because when you're not functioning at work, forget it,
it's not going to work out.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Yeah, you're bringing up such a pivotal point here to me, because,
as you know, I am a very relationship centric person
and I truly believe this that relationships drive everything that
we do. And when we're talking about relationships at work,
we have to have relationships with you. We have to
get along with people, we have to work together on
(21:49):
a team, we have to influence people, and we have
to produce together. And that's what's going to drive our progress.
And if we don't, then you know we're we're not
just missing out on an opportunity. Today we're missing out
on marketplace revenue and such. Which is why I really
like that example of the story, because I think at work, especially,
(22:12):
so many people aren't tuned in to other people's emotions.
And if we can just pause for a moment and see,
how is somebody showing up here, and is this different
than how this person normally shows up And just the
fact that you took her aside privately and said, you know,
(22:33):
I'm not here to judge, but I'm here that certainly
had to have gone a long way, not just for
her but for the work that she was producing and
for your team.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Indeed, now, mind you, this was a long time ago.
Let's put the focus on the present twenty twenty one.
So we're reaching a nearly one year mark of lockdowns
and virtual work and not being in the physical presence
of other people, not being tactile, not being able to
hug or shake hands. Add to that the fact that
(23:05):
many of us have experience profound loss of loved ones
in the past year or no. People who have lost
loved ones I happened to who have lost my mother
in law was traumatic.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Oh that's terrible. I'm so sorry to hear that.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Well, thank you. She lived in your town, Edith, and
we couldn't say goodbye to her. There are people who
don't really understand how completely mind blowing the loss of
a loved one to COVID is because all of the
normal rituals of passing and saying goodbye don't happen. How
did we say goodbye over a speakerphone. Couldn't even get
(23:42):
zoom to work in the hospital, so we had to
do it over an iPhone speakerphone. We couldn't even look
at her, couldn't attend her funeral. It was too dangerous
at the time. This happened back in May, and we're
in the Washington, DC area, and we weren't able to
travel to New York State to bury her and have
a funeral, so we had to do it over zoom.
That's like a new thing now, the zoom funeral. And
(24:03):
I'm Jewish, and in the Jewish tradition, for seven days
you do what's called sid shiva. It's a period of
mourning where people come to your residence and they pay
their respects to you. Ye, well, you can't do that,
so there was no shiva. You know, imagine having no
wake or memorial period after the person has passed. It
(24:23):
was very strange and very unsettling. And I think to
your listeners who have never encountered this, put yourselves in
the space of people who have been profoundly changed by
the sudden loss of a loved one without the normal
means of expression to grow from the loss. That takes
a tremendous well of emotional intelligence to do. And I'm
(24:47):
hopeful that if we can talk about it for those
people who I'm pleased have not lost a loved one,
they've been safe or maybe just been lucky that they
can recognize the profound of losing a loved one in
such a way, you know, knowing that that person passed
away alone or whatever. I think this is a tremendous
(25:08):
growing and learning opportunity for us all, I think in
twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Very much so, because how it affects one person is
not necessarily going to be how it affects someone else.
And really, to truly appreciate that other person's perspective, you
have to find a way to step outside of yourself,
and that's it's not always easy to do, but it
(25:34):
is very much what we need during these times. Indeed, yeah,
I thank you Dan for sharing that story. I'm so
sorry for your loss.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
It must be just a terrible time for your family
to have gone through that. And I'm wondering about your
entrepreneurship ventures too. How has the last year affected the
work you do?
Speaker 1 (25:56):
What's really interesting? You know, I think back to when
you're in college, Edith, and you thought about what you
were going to do. It was a singular thing, right,
you know, I want to be a teacher, or I
want to be an entrepreneur, I want to run a business,
or I want to be an advertising and a you know,
be a creator. What twenty twenty one has done, what
(26:18):
I think has made the future of work present in
so many ways, is that what we do for work
is not singular anymore. It can be an amalgam of experiences.
And that's what gets to me. I am a podcaster.
I'm building a bigger brand around that podcast, which is
(26:38):
thought leadership to get us to do more meaningful work
for ourselves and achieve more happiness for ourselves. But beyond
my enterprise is all the things that I do with
my wife. We run several vintage clothing businesses online on
things like Poshmark and on you know, Etsy and things
(26:59):
like that, and it's a tremendous amount of work, but
very fulfilling. On top of that, my wife and I
do investment together. So the idea of side hustles, I
think is going to become very normalized this year. I
see it in my own family. My wife is a
full time school teacher, and yet in her off hours,
when she's off the clock, she's got this whole other
(27:19):
world that brings her great joy it you know, the
items that she curates to sell, and you know, beyond
the online sales, she also has some antique stores in
the Northern Virginia suburbs where she sells merchandise. So we
have a full life around a lot of different entrepreneurial pursuits,
which is really kind of fun.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Yeah, it's really interesting what you said, because I think
this prediction was made long ago, and I had this
in my head. I've had it in my head for
years that how we are working is changing, and I
think it's been slowly changing for years, but this past
year has really just kind of taken it into overdrive
and changed the hours that we put in how we work.
(28:03):
It's very interesting that you're wearing all of these hats,
and I agree with you. I think we're going to
see more and more of this as time goes on,
and I want to have As we are kind of
starting to close out here, I'm very interested in your
answer to this question. What advice do you have for
people who are considering entrepreneurship.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Well, first of all, find something that you are absolutely
passionate about, that you're knowledgeable about, or think about something
that provides a solution to a problem that you think
you can solve, and on top of that, make a
little money. But here's the butt. Don't give up your
day job. If you've got a job that's paying you
a steady paycheck and providing benefits, don't walk away from
(28:48):
that to start a sole proprietorship of some kind. That
is just nutty. Find a way to side hustle your
idea like my wife. My wife teaches full time in school,
she gets a great salary, benefits, and the night she
does your side hustle. It's a win win, and that
way you still have the benefit of your paycheck and
your health insurance. But you can turn this thing into
(29:10):
something rewarding. It can become a passion project that overtime grows,
and maybe you reach a point where you say, I'm
making so much money or i am so satisfied doing
this that I'm going to give up my day job.
I can afford to do it. It's very important to
balance out the passion with the practicality. Don't give up
(29:32):
your day job, don't fall into economic despair, but find
things that you can do on a smaller scale. That's
why I call them side hustles that will provide you joy.
Maybe you do them during evening hours or on the weekends.
You know a lot of people have turned to crafting.
They're making things now, they're joining maker movements, building furniture
(29:54):
and clocks and doing floral displays, or like my wife,
making jewelry or selling the jewelry. That's a side hustle.
It doesn't take away the motion, lotion, the money that
you're making to pay the bills and perhaps put away
money for your retirement. But on the other hand, it
allows you to live your dreams because you know, maybe
(30:16):
you have maybe your main job is just okay, and
maybe you don't have the means to create added meaning
to it, meaning to do volunteer efforts. If that's what
you want to do or make your job greener and
more clean. So find ways outside of that professional experience
to create something all your own and own it and
(30:38):
learn how to do it at the best that you can,
and most importantly, just be blissful about it and enthusiastic
about it, because if you're selling things to other people,
it's your enthusiasm which is the gateway to the benefits
and the utility of the products or services that you
are selling. Just be blissful and be enthusiastic. And that's
(31:00):
how I think we're going to find joy in doing
work in the future is by oftentimes creating side hustles
that augment the daily reality of a job that's just
sort of okay, but it's paying the bills.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
I hear you there. I mean, I think we all
deserve to be blissful and enthusiastic with what we're doing. Dan,
what is coming up for you in the next few months.
What are you working on now?
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Well, I think twenty twenty one is going to be
an amazing year for me. I am lining up brand
new guests who we're talking about how they are impacting
the future of work. We are going to have people
on who in the next week or so, who will
talk about, you know, how to design the perfect space
for your zoom room, you know, for those of us
(31:48):
working at home. So it's getting beyond the kind of
recruitment questions that I used to deal with in more
of a lifestyle play because life and work are so
in mesh. Now, I am leveraging old skills as a
talk show segment producer to weave new stories to help
people visualize how the future of work is going to
(32:09):
play out in their own lives. And I think with that, Edith,
the next few months are going to be very exciting,
the new guests we bring on, you know, beyond the podcast,
I'm hoping to write another book. I got to get
that started. I think I've got a lot of really
great stories to tell about how we are pursuing future
of work opportunities and also striving for meaningful work. And
(32:30):
I am going to take a very serious look at
my brand, which we call the Dan Smollen Experience, to see,
you know, how it can monetize it better and more importantly,
how we bring more value to people so that it's
a destination people can come to and say, I want
to learn more about ways that I can make the
work that I do more joyful and more meaningful for me.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Nice, thank you so. And speaking of that, where can
listeners get in touch with you?
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Well, I'm at dansmollin dot com. That's d A N
S m O l e n dot com. That's my
website and right there are all my podcast episodes if
you want to scroll through them. We also have blog
posts and if you join up with us you can
get our quarterly newsletter and other things that are going
to come in the future. For podcast listeners, search for
(33:18):
my name Dan Smollen. We're on all the channels.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
One thing we just did, we launched a podcast app,
which for people that just hate searching podcast channels for
our show, becomes a very easy way to listen and
it updates beautifully. It's it's not a perfect tool, but
it's going to get better over the future, and it's
simple and easy to use. And if you're on if
you use an iPhone, you can go to the app store,
(33:44):
the Apple app Store, put in my name Dan Smollen
and ding there it is and it's free, excellent, and
so you can find me there. You can find me
on Twitter at Dan Smollen I am on Instagram at
Dan dot Smollen and on LinkedIn. Of course I'd love
to hear from your listeners and thank you. I've enjoyed this,
this has been great.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Oh well, I really appreciate you being here, Dan, Thank
you so much. It is just a pleasure to hear
about somebody who is doing such good in the world.
So thank you for that. Thank you for all you
do for other people to help them navigate meaningful work.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
I do want to add one thing though, for if
you're going to look at my website, put Edith Richards
in the search bar and you'll bring up some of
the podcast episodes that I did with Edith. She's one
of our most popular podcast guests that we've had over
the years. And you can listen to Edith taking me
through my EQ assessment. That would be interesting, or are
(34:40):
my Meyers Briggs assessment, which is really really interesting. So
thank you so much, Edith.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Oh sure those were a lot of fun for me too,
So thanks again. Dan, really appreciate you being here, and
all the best to you in twenty twenty one. I'm
sure I'll be talking to you again soon.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Back got you, my friend, have a great twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Thanks so much, Take care. Dan talked about many different
aspects of emotional intelligence that have helped to shape his career,
including empathy, problem solving, interpersonal relationships, and of course optimism.
(35:23):
But there's one more that I'd like to cite, and
it's an element that we often underestimate, but one that
is so vital during these uncertain times, and that's flexibility.
This is our ability and tendency to adapt to life's challenges,
to unpredictable situations, and to change direction when evidence suggests
(35:44):
we're on the wrong path. Some people are just naturally flexible,
but I'll also say that the pandemic has challenged even
the most flexible people in more ways than one. However,
this is an opportunity for leaders to examine how they're working,
and how the work environment is changing, and how they're
(36:06):
communicating with their employees. We need to be able to
shift our mindsets as legislation and work practices evolve. Still,
many of us are stuck in our ways. We're often
not as agile as we think we are. If you
believe great tools can fix any problem, if you rarely
(36:28):
veer away from your structured plans and schedules. If you
track hours but not progress, or you find yourself saying
here's what I think much more often than you ask
for others' opinions, you could probably use a flexibility boost.
Here's how to get started. The more time you spend
(36:50):
observing yourself and the people around you, the more you'll
improve your flexibility. So try some experimentation. Notice, for example,
how you approach different people. Is your style the same
with each interaction you have, or do you respond to
people differently, adjusting your approach as needed. To really understand
(37:10):
another person, you need to tune in to what's going
on beneath the surface, and we heard Dan describe how
he does this in several of his interactions. Think about
your daily routine. Do you do the same things every
day with little variation. If so, start small with driving
or walking a different route to work, adding a new
(37:32):
variation to your schedule, or just trying a new flavor
of ice cream. Exposing yourself to different scenarios and getting
out of your comfort zone will help you to become
more flexible. Think about your agility. Are you open to
new ideas, to new practices or other points of view?
(37:53):
Are you curious? We often think that we've taken multiple
perspectives into consideration, when in fact we're really aligning our
beliefs and ideas with like minded people or situations. This
can lead to confirmation bias, so it's a slippery slope. Instead,
(38:15):
find someone you don't have much in common with and
ask them questions just to learn about them. Don't try
to convince them of anything, Just listen with an open mind.
Very few of us do this on a regular basis,
and it helps us to suspend judgment, allowing us to
use that information to respond in the moment, adjusting our
(38:40):
behavior as needed. The more you accept our world is
changing and you need to change with it, the more
you'll put EQ to work.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Thanks for listening to EQ at Work. Find us using
the hashtag EQ at work. Visit our website eq at
work Net. Subscribe to this podcast via iTunes, Speaker, or
your favorite podcast platform. We'd love you to leave a
rating or review, and if you have a moment, a
simple share would be wonderful. Remember tell your friends. Mastering
(39:16):
your emotions matters. Tune in next week for a special
episode featuring one woman's story of simultaneous personal losses, which
include her husband's incarceration, her job loss, and rebuilding her
life and career as a single mother. It's a motivational
and inspirational story, and one you won't want to miss
And if you sense something is wrong, you can go
to that other person and say, I'm not asking you
to confide in me. All I want to say is
I sense that something's not right, and I just wanted
to let you know that I recognize that, and if
you ever do want to speak to me, I'm here
to listen. That goes a long way in how we
(00:24):
deal with relationships, not just in life, but at work,
because when you're not functioning at work, forget it, it's
not going to work out.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
In this episode, host Edith and her guest Dan Smallan
talk about entrepreneurship, what is I to start and grow
a business, and the importance of meaningful work.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Hi folks, I'm your host Edith Richards, and you may
know me from my podcast series Meyers Briggs Question Corner
or my website at top career dot com. I've spent
the last twenty years of my career helping people get
smart about their careers. And I've found that lots of
smart people aren't successful. Why is that. I'm convinced it's
(01:18):
due to emotional intelligence in EQ at work, I'm bringing
you inspiring people and messages to help you get smart
about your emotions. It's well known that emotional intelligence is
(01:42):
linked to job satisfaction. Many studies have shown correlation between
high EQ and high workplace satisfaction. We all know that
in today's world, people expect something deeper than a paycheck
in return for their efforts. They expect meaning in their jobs.
With us today to talk about the link between meaningful work, entrepreneurship,
(02:05):
and emotional intelligence is Dan Smollen. Dan is a veteran
executive recruiter turned nationally recognized thought leader in workforce and
workplace topics. Now he is the host and executive producer
of the Dan Smollen Podcast, which helps listeners navigate the
(02:25):
future of work to do truly meaningful work. You can
subscribe to the Dan Smollen Podcast on a variety of
channels including Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, and Stitcher. Dan,
I have got to admit that I feel like we're
switching roles here. Finally, I'm interviewing you for a change.
(02:47):
You've had quite an interesting career, which I'm a bit
in awe of, especially how you've made the leap from
quote unquote worker to entrepreneur. And I think a lot
of folks tuning in today are going to be interested
to hear not only how you made that leap, but
what you learned along the way. But let's start with
(03:07):
an easy question, how would you describe your professional self?
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Well, first off, Edith, what a delight to be on
a podcast with you where I am the guest and
you're the host.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I know, right, it's really exciting for me too.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Well, you asked an interesting question. How I answer that is,
I believe I help people in the workforce to real
time imagine work for themselves that is profound, protects the planet,
empowers people in communities, and it's fun to do meaningful work.
Beyond that, I report on how the future of work
(03:44):
is becoming present in our lives. In our sudden pivotal
way from what is often called co located work, which
is working with other people in an office setting, we're
shifting to more remote work and hybrid work and vironments,
and that is happening right now in twenty twenty one.
So I feel like I'm getting back to my reporter
(04:06):
roots describing how these future of work changes are becoming
present tense.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Yeah, and there sure have been a lot of changes
over the past year, and it really begs the question,
what is the future of work going to look like.
And I'd like to ask you a question about your
career progression before we get into the kind of nitty
gritty of that. Can you talk about your career progression,
because you certainly didn't start out as an entrepreneur, nor
(04:36):
did you start out, I think, seeking to become an
advocate for meaningful work. But how did you know that
you didn't want to work in a traditional nine to
five kind of job.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Well, I didn't know that initially, and I think it's
why I had a four act progression in my careers.
You asked me to take you through it, and I'll
gladly do that. Back in college, I started as an
on air reporter, and previous to that, I was a
scholastic journalist in high school in Maryland outside of Washington, DC.
(05:09):
So I thought I was going to be a journalist,
either in print or on radio. I loved radio. I
love the intimacy of it, and as a college student
I got good at it. I was on the air
quite a bit, and I thought that that was going
to be what I would do for a career. Didn't happen.
(05:30):
As I graduated college in a really terrible economy, I
was encouraged to get into advertising and marketing, and that
was my second career act. I spent several years in
the ad agency space, representing some very top clients in
both their marketing and account management needs. And imagine, if
(05:55):
you will, I was a twenty seven year old guy
with a lot of ambition and not a lot of
experience and a tremendous amount of responsibility. But as they say,
nothing last forever. And then I went into my third act,
which was probably my longest so far, and that was
a twenty year stint in executive recruitment, the first seven
(06:15):
years working for a woman named Victoria James, who I
actually worked for during my second act in the agency space.
And then I decided seven years in that I wanted
to be an entrepreneur. I wanted to go at this
on my own, so I hung my own shingle and
I started my own recruitment agency and I did that
(06:38):
for thirteen years and it was very successful at it.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Can I ask you what actually you said that you
wanted to become an entrepreneur? Why did you want to
become an entrepreneur? What was it? Was there something that
you were dissatisfied with in the quote unquote traditional workspace
or was it just kind of an idea that you had.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Well, I think some of it was latent in my DNA.
I love solving problems. I actually liked having a business.
I liked the responsibility of creating and sustaining something that
had the benefit of helping others.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Nice, Well, that's great, and then I guess as an entrepreneur,
you could probably do that more to the parameters of
kind of what you thought was meaningful, just to start
to pivot into meaningful work there that would probably just
having your own agency would probably tick that box a
little more than working for someone else.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I wanted to add one thing though, because that was
my third act, and I figured, oh, okay, I can
do this the rest of my life. I can be
a recruiter. I could live anywhere. When you are a recruiter,
you can work virtually and have mobile technology. And you know,
my wife dreamed years ago of retiring on on a
Capri which is the top of the Aisle of Capri
(08:00):
to Italy, and I was like, how would I do that?
But I could have I didn't stay a recruiter. About
three years ago I reached a point where the success
measures were going retrograde. I was very good at retaining
people in their work, in allowing them to find opportunities
to be happy. But what was happening to me was
(08:21):
that the clients that I had were great people. I
loved them. Unfortunately, the assignments that I was getting from
them and the culture in their companies was growingly discordant.
What I mean by that is I would put somebody
in a position that was, let's say a business development manager,
which has some elements of marketing and planning involved. What
(08:43):
I discovered is that my clients really wanted was pure
salespeople and not the hunter gatherer type, the type that
works off of the phone and calls people cold calling.
I mean, nobody really cold calls anymore, but that's what
they wanted. And oftentimes I was getting reached back from
my place client saying, Dan, I'm miserable. I never really
had that. But I know we're talking about emotional intelligence
(09:07):
on this episode, and I had to tap into that
and say, wait a minute, what is going on here?
And am I contributing to their misery? And I had
to make a decision, Edith, And the decision was I
either double down, try to find some new clients, keep
up recruiting, or I had to ask myself, is this
the time to exit out and do something else? And
(09:30):
I took the road less traveled, as you know, which
pivoted me into my fourth act, which is being a
podcaster and a thought leader around the areas of future
of work and meaningful work. So that's how I've come
full circle in my career. And now I'm dealing with
the issues that I never dealt with as a recruiter
because as a recruiter, you're hired by the hiring manager.
(09:53):
They are the ones calling the shots. Now I am
talent focused, I am people focused, and I'm trying to
respond to people in a way that helps them direct
more purpose and more enjoyment out of their careers and
hopefully by extension, their lives.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, let's hope. So, and I have no doubt that
you're doing that for a lot of people. And you know,
speaking of that kind of making that pivot between working
for the hiring manager versus working for the talent, I
can't help but think about this disconnect there is between,
you know, what the leaders of these organizations think is
(10:33):
important and what people are trying to do to create
meaning in their own space. It just seems like this
disconnect is bigger than ever now. And I would have
thought that the times we're living in would have minimized
that a bit. But I personally don't see that happening,
do you.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
That's an interesting question. I actually think that the tumult
that we are dealing with right now is uncovering these things.
I'll give you an example. Sometimes a hiring manager would
say to me, Dan, I want you to go out.
This is a cache organization. I want you to go
out and find me people who only have IVY League backgrounds. Now,
(11:15):
when I say IVY League backgrounds, I'm not talking about Cornell.
I want either Harvard or Yale or Wharton School of Business. Okay,
and think about it, and I say, all right, fine,
Then I would discover that's that person's pedigree. Why are
they hiring themselves? If you're going to hire somebody, why
(11:35):
don't you hire somebody who brings a completely different value set,
because maybe hiring you is the problem.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yeah, we see this all the time in the corporate world.
People they don't always have this awareness of what they
need on their teams. They need someone else who has
a different skill set. We all can't be good at everything, right, we.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Can't all be good at everything. But I think that
emotional intelligence plays into this because it takes somebody really
eq strong to say, maybe I got to hire somebody
completely different from me stylistically, background wise, if I'm a
white guy, maybe a woman of color, maybe somebody from
(12:21):
a different scholastic background and a different life experience background.
Because when we tend to hire ourselves, you know, maybe
we perpetuate some good aspects. Maybe I find somebody who,
like me, is a strong hunter sales type who knows
how to drive revenue and scale revenue scale. Maybe I'm
(12:43):
perpetuating all the bad habits. Maybe I'm ignoring market opportunities
because I only know what I know, and I don't
know what I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
That's a great way to put it, because when we're
talking about emotional intelligence, I mean it takes someone who
not only is aware of their own strengths and weaknesses
and is able to use that when they're, you know,
in this case, sourcing candidates, but also has that level
of self regard that they're not threatened by someone who
(13:14):
has a different skill set than they do. What would
you do to that.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Well, I would agree with you. You know, I spent a
tremendous amount of my career in the advertising space, which
couldn't have been more white and more male. And the sensibilities,
even the management tropes are usually around competitive sports. Get
on the team, uh huh, don't sit on the bench,
(13:39):
you know, get a little dirty in the playground, you know.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
And how has that changed today?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Well, it's changing. I don't know that it's changed. I
think this is the opportunity this decade. Yeah, with a
distributed workforce, perhaps we are able to bring on people
into kinds of work that that they would not normally
have been able to do because they had to travel
too far, or they had some something in the way,
(14:07):
maybe childcare or you know, some other hindrance. I'm hoping
that we get smarter about hiring all kinds of people
for all kinds of work and not be afraid of it.
Let it liberate us. Think about if we bring in
new kinds of people, they may actually open up new
(14:27):
markets for us, or they will think about the execution
of a plan differently that will create better and perhaps
even different outcomes that we've never thought about. And I
think the old school of management tends to be very,
very white and very hierarchical. And I'd like, indeed, and
(14:47):
I'd like to see more bottom up ideation, because you
know what, sometimes the man or woman or person on
the factory floor has the best ideas.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
No kidding. But the question then becomes, how do you
get these leaders at the top to buy into this.
It's a bit of a rhetorical question.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Now, Oh, I think you hire more women. You purpose
yourself to make sure that you're not hiring, that you're
not considering hiring people of color and differing backgrounds and experiences.
I mean, I think about and I don't remember the
gentleman's name, the CEO of Low's Corporation, which is in
the home improvement business. They compete against Home Depot. African
(15:30):
American gentleman with a very interesting backstory, grew up poor,
suffered a lot of discrimination, and yet he's running one
of the most amazing companies out there and he's reimagining
it for the twenty first century. That's not a knock
on Home Depot. This is because this man brings this
(15:51):
set of experiences that are so unlike what you typically
see among blue chip companies in the United States. Uh huh.
And my hope is by breaking the old culture paradigms
and creating new ones, work is going to change. How
we use emotional intelligence at work is going to be
(16:12):
liberated because we're going to have all these new perspectives
in place that are going to be fresh and free
us from the old. I don't know how else to
put it, but I think it's a real opportunity.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
I definitely agree with you there, because when we're talking
about emotional intelligence, there's just so many misconceptions about what
it is. And I love that example that you just
gave because it shows how someone has used this element
of flexibility to work for him and to grow his business.
And speaking of emotional intelligence, you've taken the EQI assessment,
(16:49):
so you are familiar with all of these elements of
emotional intelligence and also where your natural tendencies lie. What
does emotional intelligence mean to you and how does it
relate to both your career and you know where you
think that the world is going.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Well, let's start with me. I think it means that
I can get into most any situation and read the room,
read what is going on, read what people are saying,
feel what the room is telling me in terms of energy,
but also intent, and respond in a way that creates
(17:27):
forward progress. So what does that mean? I especially learn
this in recruiting. Oftentimes you are dealing with competing interests.
How do you get a candidate who's one way and
a hiring manager who says it's got to be another way?
And how do you find the bridges in their divide?
And I think I learned that from emotional intelligence. Part
(17:49):
of it is just sitting back and listening and seeing
what bubbles up, because oftentimes we hear words, but we
don't hear intent, and so sometimes it takes a little
time to bridge that divide. But I think EQ has
helped me get to that point. And my success or
lack of success comes from active listening, but also from
my intuition, which I think is very strong.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I can be in a room and I can feel
an energy. Sometimes it's from a micro expression or a
nonverbal expression, and I can see, uh, oh I've hit
a touch point, back off or redirect.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
So here's a question for you about that, because I
think a lot of people tuning in they might hear
what you're saying, but they might not have such a
strong intuition as you do. So how do you gauge
whether you're right or wrong? I guess is the question
I want to ask here.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I had a situation many many years ago before I
was recruiting in the agency space and one of our
team members just had a look on her face as
if the bottom that dropped off. And I'm sitting watching
in the meeting, and immediately I knew something was wrong
because she was completely different in her demeanor. She was
usually a very outgoing person, but I could see there
(19:04):
was something. There was something different. I felt this energy.
She looked hollow, like desiccated. I don't know how to
explain it. We weren't close friends, but I pulled her
aside and I said, so and so, I sensed that
something's going on with you. And I'm not prying, but
I just wanted to let you know that I'm sensing
(19:27):
it and I feel for you, and if there's something
that I could do, would you please let me know?
Would you do that. I'm here to listen, not judge.
And she nodded and went away and figured, okay, that's fine.
And about three days later she came to me and
she said, my husband just filed divorce on me and
(19:47):
this was the love of my life. Oh and it's
rocked my world and I don't know how to get
through the day. And she, you know, she wasn't returning
phone calls, and she wasn't this, and wasn't that. And
I think not re acquiring her to respond, but me
to say I feel it. Yeah, was a breakthrough moment,
which I think back in those days probably didn't happen
(20:10):
very much, because you know, when we deal with grief
at work, it's often you know, bucket up, you know,
take the day off to go deal with your problems
and come back, you know, hitting the ground hard. But
this poor woman, I mean, this is her. I don't
know if it was a college sweetheart or a high
school sweetheart, dude left, moved out, I don't know what
the circumstances were, but this woman's grief was so palpable
(20:33):
that it directed me away from all the other things
I had to deal with because I could see one
of my team members was suffering. Yeah, and she didn't
work for me, she worked with me. And that's sort
of how I use intuition. It's not a secret power.
I think that many people have intuitive strengths. Mine tend
to be very heightened, but I think most people have
(20:56):
some degree of it. And if you sense something is wrong,
you can go to that other person and say, I'm
not asking you to confide in me. All I want
to say is I sense that something's not right, and
I just wanted to let you know that I recognize that,
and if you ever do want to speak to me,
I'm here to listen. That goes a long way in
(21:17):
how we deal with relationships, not just in life, but
at work, because when you're not functioning at work, forget it,
it's not going to work out.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Yeah, you're bringing up such a pivotal point here to me, because,
as you know, I am a very relationship centric person
and I truly believe this that relationships drive everything that
we do. And when we're talking about relationships at work,
we have to have relationships with you. We have to
get along with people, we have to work together on
(21:49):
a team, we have to influence people, and we have
to produce together. And that's what's going to drive our progress.
And if we don't, then you know we're we're not
just missing out on an opportunity. Today we're missing out
on marketplace revenue and such. Which is why I really
like that example of the story, because I think at work, especially,
(22:12):
so many people aren't tuned in to other people's emotions.
And if we can just pause for a moment and see,
how is somebody showing up here, and is this different
than how this person normally shows up And just the
fact that you took her aside privately and said, you know,
(22:33):
I'm not here to judge, but I'm here that certainly
had to have gone a long way, not just for
her but for the work that she was producing and
for your team.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Indeed, now, mind you, this was a long time ago.
Let's put the focus on the present twenty twenty one.
So we're reaching a nearly one year mark of lockdowns
and virtual work and not being in the physical presence
of other people, not being tactile, not being able to
hug or shake hands. Add to that the fact that
(23:05):
many of us have experience profound loss of loved ones
in the past year or no. People who have lost
loved ones I happened to who have lost my mother
in law was traumatic.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Oh that's terrible. I'm so sorry to hear that.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Well, thank you. She lived in your town, Edith, and
we couldn't say goodbye to her. There are people who
don't really understand how completely mind blowing the loss of
a loved one to COVID is because all of the
normal rituals of passing and saying goodbye don't happen. How
did we say goodbye over a speakerphone. Couldn't even get
(23:42):
zoom to work in the hospital, so we had to
do it over an iPhone speakerphone. We couldn't even look
at her, couldn't attend her funeral. It was too dangerous
at the time. This happened back in May, and we're
in the Washington, DC area, and we weren't able to
travel to New York State to bury her and have
a funeral, so we had to do it over zoom.
That's like a new thing now, the zoom funeral. And
(24:03):
I'm Jewish, and in the Jewish tradition, for seven days
you do what's called sid shiva. It's a period of
mourning where people come to your residence and they pay
their respects to you. Ye, well, you can't do that,
so there was no shiva. You know, imagine having no
wake or memorial period after the person has passed. It
(24:23):
was very strange and very unsettling. And I think to
your listeners who have never encountered this, put yourselves in
the space of people who have been profoundly changed by
the sudden loss of a loved one without the normal
means of expression to grow from the loss. That takes
a tremendous well of emotional intelligence to do. And I'm
(24:47):
hopeful that if we can talk about it for those
people who I'm pleased have not lost a loved one,
they've been safe or maybe just been lucky that they
can recognize the profound of losing a loved one in
such a way, you know, knowing that that person passed
away alone or whatever. I think this is a tremendous
(25:08):
growing and learning opportunity for us all, I think in
twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Very much so, because how it affects one person is
not necessarily going to be how it affects someone else.
And really, to truly appreciate that other person's perspective, you
have to find a way to step outside of yourself,
and that's it's not always easy to do, but it
(25:34):
is very much what we need during these times. Indeed, yeah,
I thank you Dan for sharing that story. I'm so
sorry for your loss.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
It must be just a terrible time for your family
to have gone through that. And I'm wondering about your
entrepreneurship ventures too. How has the last year affected the
work you do?
Speaker 1 (25:56):
What's really interesting? You know, I think back to when
you're in college, Edith, and you thought about what you
were going to do. It was a singular thing, right,
you know, I want to be a teacher, or I
want to be an entrepreneur, I want to run a business,
or I want to be an advertising and a you know,
be a creator. What twenty twenty one has done, what
(26:18):
I think has made the future of work present in
so many ways, is that what we do for work
is not singular anymore. It can be an amalgam of experiences.
And that's what gets to me. I am a podcaster.
I'm building a bigger brand around that podcast, which is
(26:38):
thought leadership to get us to do more meaningful work
for ourselves and achieve more happiness for ourselves. But beyond
my enterprise is all the things that I do with
my wife. We run several vintage clothing businesses online on
things like Poshmark and on you know, Etsy and things
(26:59):
like that, and it's a tremendous amount of work, but
very fulfilling. On top of that, my wife and I
do investment together. So the idea of side hustles, I
think is going to become very normalized this year. I
see it in my own family. My wife is a
full time school teacher, and yet in her off hours,
when she's off the clock, she's got this whole other
(27:19):
world that brings her great joy it you know, the
items that she curates to sell, and you know, beyond
the online sales, she also has some antique stores in
the Northern Virginia suburbs where she sells merchandise. So we
have a full life around a lot of different entrepreneurial pursuits,
which is really kind of fun.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Yeah, it's really interesting what you said, because I think
this prediction was made long ago, and I had this
in my head. I've had it in my head for
years that how we are working is changing, and I
think it's been slowly changing for years, but this past
year has really just kind of taken it into overdrive
and changed the hours that we put in how we work.
(28:03):
It's very interesting that you're wearing all of these hats,
and I agree with you. I think we're going to
see more and more of this as time goes on,
and I want to have As we are kind of
starting to close out here, I'm very interested in your
answer to this question. What advice do you have for
people who are considering entrepreneurship.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Well, first of all, find something that you are absolutely
passionate about, that you're knowledgeable about, or think about something
that provides a solution to a problem that you think
you can solve, and on top of that, make a
little money. But here's the butt. Don't give up your
day job. If you've got a job that's paying you
a steady paycheck and providing benefits, don't walk away from
(28:48):
that to start a sole proprietorship of some kind. That
is just nutty. Find a way to side hustle your
idea like my wife. My wife teaches full time in school,
she gets a great salary, benefits, and the night she
does your side hustle. It's a win win, and that
way you still have the benefit of your paycheck and
your health insurance. But you can turn this thing into
(29:10):
something rewarding. It can become a passion project that overtime grows,
and maybe you reach a point where you say, I'm
making so much money or i am so satisfied doing
this that I'm going to give up my day job.
I can afford to do it. It's very important to
balance out the passion with the practicality. Don't give up
(29:32):
your day job, don't fall into economic despair, but find
things that you can do on a smaller scale. That's
why I call them side hustles that will provide you joy.
Maybe you do them during evening hours or on the weekends.
You know a lot of people have turned to crafting.
They're making things now, they're joining maker movements, building furniture
(29:54):
and clocks and doing floral displays, or like my wife,
making jewelry or selling the jewelry. That's a side hustle.
It doesn't take away the motion, lotion, the money that
you're making to pay the bills and perhaps put away
money for your retirement. But on the other hand, it
allows you to live your dreams because you know, maybe
(30:16):
you have maybe your main job is just okay, and
maybe you don't have the means to create added meaning
to it, meaning to do volunteer efforts. If that's what
you want to do or make your job greener and
more clean. So find ways outside of that professional experience
to create something all your own and own it and
(30:38):
learn how to do it at the best that you can,
and most importantly, just be blissful about it and enthusiastic
about it, because if you're selling things to other people,
it's your enthusiasm which is the gateway to the benefits
and the utility of the products or services that you
are selling. Just be blissful and be enthusiastic. And that's
(31:00):
how I think we're going to find joy in doing
work in the future is by oftentimes creating side hustles
that augment the daily reality of a job that's just
sort of okay, but it's paying the bills.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
I hear you there. I mean, I think we all
deserve to be blissful and enthusiastic with what we're doing. Dan,
what is coming up for you in the next few months.
What are you working on now?
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Well, I think twenty twenty one is going to be
an amazing year for me. I am lining up brand
new guests who we're talking about how they are impacting
the future of work. We are going to have people
on who in the next week or so, who will
talk about, you know, how to design the perfect space
for your zoom room, you know, for those of us
(31:48):
working at home. So it's getting beyond the kind of
recruitment questions that I used to deal with in more
of a lifestyle play because life and work are so
in mesh. Now, I am leveraging old skills as a
talk show segment producer to weave new stories to help
people visualize how the future of work is going to
(32:09):
play out in their own lives. And I think with that, Edith,
the next few months are going to be very exciting,
the new guests we bring on, you know, beyond the podcast,
I'm hoping to write another book. I got to get
that started. I think I've got a lot of really
great stories to tell about how we are pursuing future
of work opportunities and also striving for meaningful work. And
(32:30):
I am going to take a very serious look at
my brand, which we call the Dan Smollen Experience, to see,
you know, how it can monetize it better and more importantly,
how we bring more value to people so that it's
a destination people can come to and say, I want
to learn more about ways that I can make the
work that I do more joyful and more meaningful for me.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Nice, thank you so. And speaking of that, where can
listeners get in touch with you?
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Well, I'm at dansmollin dot com. That's d A N
S m O l e n dot com. That's my
website and right there are all my podcast episodes if
you want to scroll through them. We also have blog
posts and if you join up with us you can
get our quarterly newsletter and other things that are going
to come in the future. For podcast listeners, search for
(33:18):
my name Dan Smollen. We're on all the channels.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
One thing we just did, we launched a podcast app,
which for people that just hate searching podcast channels for
our show, becomes a very easy way to listen and
it updates beautifully. It's it's not a perfect tool, but
it's going to get better over the future, and it's
simple and easy to use. And if you're on if
you use an iPhone, you can go to the app store,
(33:44):
the Apple app Store, put in my name Dan Smollen
and ding there it is and it's free, excellent, and
so you can find me there. You can find me
on Twitter at Dan Smollen I am on Instagram at
Dan dot Smollen and on LinkedIn. Of course I'd love
to hear from your listeners and thank you. I've enjoyed this,
this has been great.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Oh well, I really appreciate you being here, Dan, Thank
you so much. It is just a pleasure to hear
about somebody who is doing such good in the world.
So thank you for that. Thank you for all you
do for other people to help them navigate meaningful work.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
I do want to add one thing though, for if
you're going to look at my website, put Edith Richards
in the search bar and you'll bring up some of
the podcast episodes that I did with Edith. She's one
of our most popular podcast guests that we've had over
the years. And you can listen to Edith taking me
through my EQ assessment. That would be interesting, or are
(34:40):
my Meyers Briggs assessment, which is really really interesting. So
thank you so much, Edith.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Oh sure those were a lot of fun for me too,
So thanks again. Dan, really appreciate you being here, and
all the best to you in twenty twenty one. I'm
sure I'll be talking to you again soon.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Back got you, my friend, have a great twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Thanks so much, Take care. Dan talked about many different
aspects of emotional intelligence that have helped to shape his career,
including empathy, problem solving, interpersonal relationships, and of course optimism.
(35:23):
But there's one more that I'd like to cite, and
it's an element that we often underestimate, but one that
is so vital during these uncertain times, and that's flexibility.
This is our ability and tendency to adapt to life's challenges,
to unpredictable situations, and to change direction when evidence suggests
(35:44):
we're on the wrong path. Some people are just naturally flexible,
but I'll also say that the pandemic has challenged even
the most flexible people in more ways than one. However,
this is an opportunity for leaders to examine how they're working,
and how the work environment is changing, and how they're
(36:06):
communicating with their employees. We need to be able to
shift our mindsets as legislation and work practices evolve. Still,
many of us are stuck in our ways. We're often
not as agile as we think we are. If you
believe great tools can fix any problem, if you rarely
(36:28):
veer away from your structured plans and schedules. If you
track hours but not progress, or you find yourself saying
here's what I think much more often than you ask
for others' opinions, you could probably use a flexibility boost.
Here's how to get started. The more time you spend
(36:50):
observing yourself and the people around you, the more you'll
improve your flexibility. So try some experimentation. Notice, for example,
how you approach different people. Is your style the same
with each interaction you have, or do you respond to
people differently, adjusting your approach as needed. To really understand
(37:10):
another person, you need to tune in to what's going
on beneath the surface, and we heard Dan describe how
he does this in several of his interactions. Think about
your daily routine. Do you do the same things every
day with little variation. If so, start small with driving
or walking a different route to work, adding a new
(37:32):
variation to your schedule, or just trying a new flavor
of ice cream. Exposing yourself to different scenarios and getting
out of your comfort zone will help you to become
more flexible. Think about your agility. Are you open to
new ideas, to new practices or other points of view?
(37:53):
Are you curious? We often think that we've taken multiple
perspectives into consideration, when in fact we're really aligning our
beliefs and ideas with like minded people or situations. This
can lead to confirmation bias, so it's a slippery slope. Instead,
(38:15):
find someone you don't have much in common with and
ask them questions just to learn about them. Don't try
to convince them of anything, Just listen with an open mind.
Very few of us do this on a regular basis,
and it helps us to suspend judgment, allowing us to
use that information to respond in the moment, adjusting our
(38:40):
behavior as needed. The more you accept our world is
changing and you need to change with it, the more
you'll put EQ to work.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Thanks for listening to EQ at Work. Find us using
the hashtag EQ at work. Visit our website eq at
work Net. Subscribe to this podcast via iTunes, Speaker, or
your favorite podcast platform. We'd love you to leave a
rating or review, and if you have a moment, a
simple share would be wonderful. Remember tell your friends. Mastering
(39:16):
your emotions matters. Tune in next week for a special
episode featuring one woman's story of simultaneous personal losses, which
include her husband's incarceration, her job loss, and rebuilding her
life and career as a single mother. It's a motivational
and inspirational story, and one you won't want to miss
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