April 5, 2021 • 33 mins
Surviving a Career Change After 40
According to a survey from Indeed, nearly 60% of workers are willing to take a pay cut in order to completely change industries. Leah Zibulsky, did just that. This former freelance writer and editor went back to school mid-life to study renewable energy. And then she found herself unemployed for 14 months, competing for jobs with a much younger crowd. In this episode, Leah shares how she bounced back, proving that you’re never too old to change paths.
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According to a survey from Indeed, nearly 60% of workers are willing to take a pay cut in order to completely change industries. Leah Zibulsky, did just that. This former freelance writer and editor went back to school mid-life to study renewable energy. And then she found herself unemployed for 14 months, competing for jobs with a much younger crowd. In this episode, Leah shares how she bounced back, proving that you’re never too old to change paths.
---Connect with us!
https://facebook.com/eqatwork
https://instagram.com/eqatwork1
https://twitter.com/eqatwork1
YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/c/ATopCareer
Web Site
https://eqatwork.net
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you don't give up, something is going to happen
to turn the story around for you. Something is going
to happen. I did not have hope. I looked for
a job for fourteen months and then three separate jobs
in the same week of July where I came so
close to getting and they rejected me the same week
(00:25):
in July.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
So I had no hope.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
The hope came after I got the job in August
and I saw that somehow, like things turn around, if
you keep going, something is going to happen.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
That's going to change the story for you eventually.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
In this episode, Edith and our guests talk about unemployment,
switching careers, and why so hard to find a new job.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Hi, folks, I'm your host Edith Richards, and you may
know me from my podcast series Myers Briggs Question Corner
or my website at topcreer dot com. I've spent the
last twenty years of my career helping people get smart
about their careers, and I've found that lots of smart
people aren't successful.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Why is that.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
I'm convinced it's due to emotional intelligence. In EQ at work,
I'm bringing you inspiring people and messages to help you
get smart about your emotions.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
Hi, folks, Edith Richards here and today I'm with Leah Zabowski,
who's the deputy Communications team lead at the US Department
of Energy Solar Energy Tech Technologies Office. Welcome, Leah, Thanks
for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Edith.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
Yeah, we're so glad you're here. It's such important work
that you're doing, and we could have an entire episode
just devoted to that, but we're here to talk about
your career journey. I know it's taken you a lot
of uphill work to get to this point in your career,
and I'm sure we're going to get into all of that,
but first, welcome to the show. I'm so pleased you're here,
and I'm really excited for you to share your story
(02:27):
because it's such an inspiration to anyone who's been stuck professionally,
who's sent out thousands of resumes, gone on interviews, and
essentially just has done everything right and for whatever reason,
they aren't getting the results that they want. So that's
a little preview about what we'll be talking about today.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I was on that uphill road and we met there,
so I guess that's why I'm here.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I'm happy to talk about it.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
Yeah, So speaking of that, I'd like to start out
with the story of how you and I met, and
then we can get into all these careers accesses that
you've had. A few years ago, I got laid off
from a job that I loved, and I was fortunate
to land a new job very quickly in a completely
different industry. And I won't lie, it was really rough,
(03:13):
and I think in most workplaces there's not nearly enough
emphasis on a positive onboarding experience and helping new employees
get acclimated properly training new employees. But that's another story.
Suffice it to say that very shortly after I started
this new job, I was asked to speak at a
local event with an organization I'm involved with called Leaders
(03:35):
in Energy, and I was asked to speak on recreering
modern job search, especially with regards to green careers and
careers in the renewable energy space. So fast forward a
little bit. I did my little speech. I talked about
being laid off and how I was able to land
to this new job so quickly, and as usually happens
(03:55):
at events like this, several audience members came up to
me afterwards. And you happened to be one of those people, Leah.
And you know, I don't know what it was about you,
but to this day, it's something I remember so viscerally,
definitely something positive about your demeanor, because you asked me
in that moment how my new job was going. And
(04:17):
I still remember this so clearly. I said, I've cried
every day, and I watched your face and it was
this look of compassion mixed with oh my god, I
can't believe this stranger just told me that. And I've
thought about that moment so many times since then. What
(04:37):
was it about you that caused me to be completely
vulnerable in that moment to a stranger. I'd never met
you before, And I can only conclude that you have
some natural quality about you that disarms people, or at
least it disarmed me and gets people to open up
to you and maybe even trust you.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
You know, it's funny because because you recently reminded me
of that moment when we were preparing for this podcast,
and I had forgotten about it, but when you talked
about it, it came rushing back to me. And you know,
is this mixture of like it broke my heart, but
It also made me happy because I wanted to hear
(05:18):
why you were crying every day. And I think, you know,
I've been told that I have no poker face, so
this has been good and bad for me throughout my
career and throughout my life. But I think the fact
that I mean, I have no poker face, and I
honestly wanted to know how things were going. I was
(05:40):
interested in what you had to say that day. Obviously
I came up to you afterwards, so you know, you
saw that I had no poker face. I am who
I am, and that must have come through for you,
and that started our relationship of you know, work and
getting to know each other and trying to help each other.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
Yeah, it totally like it broke the ice in a way.
And we are often told, especially in the professional world,
we're told to hide our feelings. Feelings have no place
in the professional world, and for those of us who
are perhaps more emotional or sensitive, that's a really tall
order to fill, and I think a lot of us
(06:20):
end up feeling, at least on some level, like we
have to give up a part of ourselves if we're
to be successful at work. So that's kind of a
segue into how I guess your expressiveness or your lack
of a poker face, because it must have worked for
you in some way for you to get to the
point where you are now.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I suppose it has because I am where I am,
which is having a really good job as a contractor
at the Department of Energy Solar Office. So it's where
I wanted to be, and I got here. You know,
poker face or no poker face, And like I said,
I don't have one, and I'm full of feelings all
the time. I'm a very sensitive person, always have been.
(07:01):
I haven't always been this outspoken. If you had asked
me twenty years ago to do a podcast, I probably
would have said no.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I was very, very shy.
Speaker 5 (07:08):
Let's talk about how you got to this point in
your career.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
You know I had been doing something completely different for
seventeen or so years prior. I was a copy editor,
which basically means that I fixed grammar according to style
at different magazines in New York. So I lived in
a different city and I did a completely different job,
and I was very happy doing that job until I
wasn't anymore. Because it had been about seventeen years and
(07:35):
I became obsessed with climate change.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
So I was reading a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Of Elizabeth Colbert articles in the New Yorker and picking
up books and things like that.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
So I was getting antsy.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
So you had been a copy editor in New York.
Were you working for magazines.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Or yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
I had been on staff at several of them, including GQ,
a magazine called Details back in.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
The day, smart money. Those gone now, and then I
went freelance.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
For the last ten years of my career, I was freelancing,
so I'd work at like Glamour during the day, or
actually I worked at Glamour at night and in Style
during the day, or Popular Science or Time or New
York Magazine. So I bounced around a lot. I was successful.
It was a good thing, you know, I had the time.
I also was working, you know, about seventy hours a
(08:23):
week a lot of the time, for not a whole
lot of money. So yeah, I was burning out and
I was getting bored.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
So then you started, as you said, started reading articles
on climate change, and that got you interested in a
totally new career field.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
I was really enraged because I saw a lot of
problems that were happening that were totally our fault as
human beings, and nobody was really doing enough about them
to make a significant difference.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
And you know, I'm not somebody who likes to.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
March in the streets, although I have definitely done that,
because my father was a civil rights activist, and so
I think my first protest was a the Iraq War
and Times Square when I was a teenager. But you know,
when I see a problem that I get upset about,
I want to fix it somehow, and in this case,
it meant making it my new job, literally my job,
(09:16):
to fix climate change. So I ended up I guess
it was twenty sixteen. I wasn't planning on going back
to school, but I went to a green fair at
the Javit Center in New York City and there was
a man who was waving at me behind a booth.
He was just trying to get my attention, and it
turned out he was the director of the sustainability Management
program at American University, and he wanted to try to
(09:39):
get me interested in going back to school, which again
had not been the plan, but it became the plan.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
So he convinced you then to apply to American University,
and I guess that led you down to DC.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah, that's exactly what happened. So in twenty sixteen. I
also should mention that I'm slow to make big changes, right.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
You know.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I'd been dissatisfied with my life for probably since twenty twelve,
and it wasn't until twenty sixteen that I actually made
the move. And I will say that one of the
big things that happened that made me make the move
was my mother dying in twenty fifteen, which was kind
of a surprise. But after that year of grief and
(10:23):
managing her estate and taking care of everything, that was
when I realized, Okay, it's my time now, and something
like get me out of this town, get me out
of this current career, like let me.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Start over, because this is my life now.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
When you lose somebody close to you, as so many
people have during this horrible year, it shakes you up
and it makes you really get out of your comfort zone.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
So yeah, I came down to DC.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I did the Master's program in one year because I
went full time. I was lucky enough to have saved
enough money where I could go full time. I'd also
received some money from this coool to help and then
I was thrown into this world of having completed the program,
I had a master's degree. This is actually my second one.
(11:10):
I have a master's degree in journalism, which was also
a one year program that I got from Boston University
like twenty years ago. So that which led me into,
you know, working in magazines, which I had always wanted
to do, and now I wanted to do something related
to sustainability. So that's what I had, and then I
couldn't get a job.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
Oh my goodness. Okay, this is really quite a story here.
I mean, first of all, that you approximately at the
age of forty, I guess you just decided to drastically
change your life, to take back your life in a way.
And of course there were several events that happened, notably
your mom passing away that kind of served as the
catalyst for that change. You know, there's so many people,
(11:53):
I think probably tuning in, who have dreamed of doing
something like this, doing something more meaningful career wise or professionally,
and you've had the courage to do that, even though,
as you said, it took a couple of years of
being dissatisfied, but you did it. Sounds like pretty suddenly
take that leap, and then, you know, after doing so,
(12:16):
it sounded like didn't work out the way that you
wanted them to.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That's correct, things did not go well.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I spent fourteen months looking for a job after I graduated.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Oh gosh, I.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Was doing some freelance copy editing on the side, but
they were you know, book projects, which I'm of course
grateful for, because they kept me afloat. As I you know,
my savings dwindled, and I sat in this apartment in Washington,
d C. Where I basically had you know, no family
or friends. Okay, maybe one or two, but I mean
(12:49):
I have a tendency to look on that like the
glass is half empty all the time. That and I
have a history of depression as well. So to not
be working for fourteen after having been able to get
jobs just by word of mouth because I was good
at what I did back in New York, and now
I'm in a new city and I completed this program
(13:09):
and I was at zero.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I was negative, right, So and that's how we met.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
Yeah, you know, and I've talked to so many people
over the course of my career who have been there,
you know, and I'm sure there's a lot of folks
tuning in right now who are kind of in the
same boat. They've been laid off or they've been furloughed.
And you mentioned this horrible year. I should mention here
we're right at the end of twenty twenty as we're
recording this, and we are still in the midst of
the pandemic. So there's going to be more people when
(13:37):
this episode is published. I think who will be tuning
in and in this boat of you know, trying everything
and not being able to get the results that they want.
Speaker 5 (13:46):
So during that time, I have to ask what worked
for you? How did you get through that dark time?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I got a dog, Okay, I know it was in January.
I've lost all sense of time and meaning.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
You know, we're you know what are we We're in
December of twenty twenty right now. It's been a long
pandemic and I barely know what day it is. So
I do know that I got my dog in January.
It must have been months after I graduated, probably six
months after. And I knew that I needed a reason
to get out of bed in the morning, because, like
I said, depression, and I knew a dog was going
(14:23):
to do it, and I had had a dog previously,
but she had died ten years prior and I didn't
get over it for ten years.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
I've got your own now. He's saved my life, honestly.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
So for anyone who lives alone like I do, I
should mention I am child free and I am husband
free and always have been, and you know, maybe always
will be. But you know, it's important to have connection
with something. So aside from I have a small circle
(14:55):
of close family and friends that I would, you know,
text because I'm not a phone person anymore. Nobody really
is in these times, although the pandemic has probably changed that.
But back in twenty seventeen, in twenty eighteen, when I
was job searching, I wasn't a chatty person. So I
would text or I would email, right, So, you know,
(15:16):
staying connected and getting a dog.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
You know, that's an important first step because, as I've
often told other job seekers over the years, whatever it
is that you're feeling, whether you're anxious, whether you're depressed,
whether you're desperate for a job, somehow that's going to
come across when you communicate people, when you go to
networking events, when you go to interviews, and so whatever
(15:38):
negative emotions that you're feeling there in the moment, you
do need to somehow manage to get a handle on
that before you actually move forward with the technical aspect
of the job search. So fast forward to that. What
actually worked for you in terms of, you know, sending
out resumes linked in job search sites. How did you
(16:02):
manage to get this position where you are now?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I mean I leveraged the school right. You know, they
had career counselors. I wouldn't leave them alone because you know,
they basically owed me as far as I was concerned.
But yes, I beefed up my LinkedIn profile. I went
to events.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I am not a networker. I hate networking.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
I know I sound like probably an extrovert right now,
but don't consider myself one. So I have social anxiety.
I don't like going to events. But I made myself
go because I was desperate, and so I went to
events and I made myself talk to you know, one
or two people at each thing. I got business cards.
I tried to use them. I didn't always because depression
(16:47):
and fear of failure and also I guess imposter syndrome.
You know, you spin out it's impossible to kind of
control that. Sometimes, you know, there are ups and downs,
there are good days and bad days, and you to
have to like, you know, the thought of not having
a job and absolutely needing a job was enough to
put the fear of God in me to keep going,
(17:10):
you know, keep sending out the resumes. You are the
one who taught me because I went to an event
after I met you that first time. You told me
about something you were doing at the Arlington Library, so
I think it was a resume building workshop. And you
are the one that told me to tailor my resume
to each job posting so that you use the language
(17:30):
that the job posting has in your resume so the
algorithms can pick it up. So I started doing that.
And to be honest with you, I do not know
how I found this job. I mean where exactly I
found it. I don't know what I'm I wasn't on
a list serve like I found it, and I barely
understood what it was, which is ironic because I've worked
(17:50):
in communications and it wasn't abundantly clear what this position
was going to be. I didn't know that it had
something to do with solar. I knew what Solar was,
but not to the extent that I do now, and
I went for it, and they called me really quickly,
Like the time that I remember it was August. I
think I applied for that job on August fifth, and
(18:11):
by August eighteenth I had an offer.
Speaker 5 (18:13):
Wow. Okay, so that was a really quick turnaround time.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Then, very quick, and it was like magic, and.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Well deserved too, because after fourteen months sending out job
application after application and hundreds I know that you've gone
on many different interviews and things just did not seem
to click for whatever reason. And I think you were
someone who was doing everything correctly, and I just cannot
(18:40):
imagine how devastating that must be. In the midst of
that to you know, you'd question, you know, what's wrong
with me? What am I doing wrong? And still you
had something inside you that forced you to keep moving on. Now,
you mentioned it was fear of God and fear of
(19:00):
not having a job, but you know it, to me
sounds like there was something else there too, some glimmer
of hope, glimmer of optimism there that you know somehow
that just kept you going. Maybe it was your dog,
but things ended up working out and suddenly you got
this new position. And since you've gotten it, it sounds
(19:22):
like there's been a lot of good things that happened.
It was just a rapid series of promotions for you.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Well, I did get promoted. First.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Let me go back, because I do want to address
what you said about the glimmer of hope. I only
have that glimmer of hope now in himsight. I did
not have it then. What happened back then, actually, and
I'd forgotten about this or I crushed it down.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Because it was so painful.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Was that the June in July, right before August, when
I got the job, I had come so.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Close to getting three separate jobs. I am talking.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I went to a different city and they bought me lunch,
and they introduced me to like ten people and took
me around. Oh yeah, there were three jobs that I
came that close with that summer, and all three of
them rejected me the same week in July.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
Oh my gosh, that's awful.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
It was so bad.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
It was so dark that I mean, I am telling
you so there was no glimmer of hope. What I
will say is that there must be some magic out
there because and I'm a realist, Okay, I don't. But
the fact that I got this job, I don't know.
I don't remember how, except that I do remember applying
for it and couldn't tell you which website and that
(20:38):
it finally worked out. That's the magic. So I will say,
you know, if you keep if you don't give up,
something is going to happen to turn the story around
for you. Something is going to happen. I did not
have hope. I looked for a job for fourteen months,
and then three separate jobs in the same week of
(20:59):
July where I came so close to getting and they
rejected me the same week in July.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
So I had no hope.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
What the hope came after I got the job in August,
and I saw that somehow, like things turn around, if
you keep going, something is going to happen.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
That's going to change the story for you eventually.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
I love that. So just don't give up hope. There
is bound to be something that happens. It's so important
for anybody who's tuning in to hear what you're saying there.
I think it's so easy these days for people to
lose hope and to give up on themselves, and just
any small piece that you have, you know, whether it's
(21:44):
a pet, whether it's getting outside and taking a walk
every day, as long as there's that little bit to
get you up and get you moving and get you
looking to the future, those little things that you're doing
every day, that's where you start to build on things,
and that's where it starts to inspire. Hope, And I
want to Leah circle back to something that you said
(22:06):
at the beginning of our conversation, which was really about
your you know, you called it your poker face. I'm
going to call it like your natural expressiveness. I think
this is just it's such a part of who you are,
and to greater or lesser degrees, I think it has
contributed to your success professionally. What do you think about that.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I think that's probably true.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
You know, I think a lot of us are taught
to go through life presenting one way and then being another.
So I guess what I mean by that is that,
you know, especially for women and especially of women of
a certain age. Although you know things are starting to
change now, but you know, my mother was a very
sweet lady and was a good girl. Okay, she was
(22:53):
a very good girl, and then my father was a
loud mouth. And I am the glorious combination of.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
These two people.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Where I could see that, you know, my mother probably
loved my father because he was just unfailingly himself.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
He had no filter, just said what he wanted. It
didn't matter what other people thought of him.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
My father told me from a very young age, when
I was being bullied, of course, in sixth grade, you know,
it doesn't matter what other people think. What do you
care what other people think? And of course I did
care because I was in sixth grade, but I you know,
and he couldn't really tell me why I shouldn't, because
you know, when you're in sixth grade and you're a
girl and your father is telling you this, it doesn't
(23:38):
always you know, sink in. But yeah, I saw both
sides of how you're supposed to be and how you
really are. And for a lot of people that's two
different things. And for me, I'm not good at that.
I am my father's daughter in the way that I
am expressive, so I can try to say the right thing,
but if you're looking at me while I'm saying it,
(24:00):
you're gonna see that it's not really what I want
to be saying.
Speaker 5 (24:05):
Your words are saying one thing, but the expression on
your face is saying something completely opposite.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
And then, of course, because I'm May, I and often
defer to comic relief, just to try to make it
a kind of an even playing field for everybody so
that we're all feeling comfortable. And also because I need
to be liked, right, We all need to be liked
in this world, and we will all do all sorts
of things to try to get people to like us,
(24:32):
especially in a work situation, because it's your job. When
you need your job, I just try to make it,
you know, the even playing field where I crack a
joke is to try to get us all on the
same page, like, hey, we're just humans here, like trying
to get through the day. But here's my opinion about
that thing you just asked me, And it may not
(24:53):
be what you wanted to hear, but and I'll do
what you say because you're my boss.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
But I might not like totally agree with it right now.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
But somehow you've been able to find a workplace that
not just accepts you for that, but values you for
your opinions and for your frankness and they have rewarded
you as such. I mean, you've been able to grow
with this company.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
That is actually true.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
When I was hired, I was hired as a program
analyst slash writer, and I got promoted to the deputy
communications team lead position.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
About a year after that, there was.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
A vacancy and I was approached to advance into it,
and so I've taken that on and my role has
since changed dramatically and it's been quite a challenge and
I've learned so much. But yes, I find that I
work in an office where people accept me for who
I am and maybe even like me for it. And
(25:54):
you can't really ask for a whole lot more than that.
But foundationally, if you're not comfortable with where you spend
the majority of your life, you're in trouble, you know.
Speaker 5 (26:06):
Yeah, I mean I think we're all on some level.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
We may not be aware of it, but we're looking
for workplaces and organizations and people who support these natural
tendencies in ourselves. And after a long, long, uphill battle,
I think you've finally found it. And I'm so pleased
for you.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Thank you, you know.
Speaker 5 (26:26):
And as we're wrapping up here, I would like to
cite this one question for you, because I think there's
a lot of people out there who are not only
struggling with the job search, but even deciding if a
career change is the right choice for them. I think
we a lot of us reach this point mid career
and we want to do something that's more personally fulfilling
(26:49):
or more meaningful. What would you say to these folks
who are even struggling to make that decision?
Speaker 1 (26:55):
If you go with your gut and check your happiness level, right,
Because like I was just saying, you know, if you're
not happy where you spend the majority of your day,
which is at work, I.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Do think you're in trouble.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
And if you are considering, like changing your career, the
fact that you're considering it means that something isn't quite right.
You're not checking all the boxes that you want to
check in your life. And we're only here for a
limited amount of time. It's our lives, it's our chance
to just you know, run our lives the way we
(27:29):
want to. And so if you, you know, check your gut,
what would you.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Rather be doing? You don't even have to know. I
didn't know. I didn't know how to verbalize. That was
a big problem for me.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I work in communications, and I couldn't verbalize exactly what
I wanted to be doing. I just wanted to solve
climate change, and I didn't know how to do that.
But I did know that I could write, and I
can edit, and I could put words together, and I
could also it turns out make complicated science accessible to
regular folks who are not scientists, and that's what I do,
(28:03):
and that's great for me. Like I figured it out eventually,
but for a long time, I couldn't figure that out.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
So you you know, I'm talking to the audience here.
You don't have to know.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
You just have to have an inkling, and it would
have helped to know. Like maybe it wouldn't have taken
me fourteen months to find the job. But if you
have an inkling that there's something else you'd rather be doing,
then I would investigate that pretty hard.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
Absolutely, take that leap. You don't have to know what
the end result is going to be, but just take
that leap of faith and it will surely be better
than where you are now. Yeah, Cleah, I really appreciate
you sharing your story. It's so inspiring what you've done.
How would you like listeners and subscribers to be able
(28:45):
to get in touch with you?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Oh, you can find me on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Message me there, but tell me in the message who
you are or why you're writing to me, because I'll
just probably overlook it otherwise. But yeah, So I'm Leah
is l e A h and Zabalski is zib U
l Sky.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
Okay. We'll provide your contact information and the listening notes,
and if you're tuning in and would like to connect
with le on LinkedIn, please do be sure to send
a personalized message with your request and let her know
that you heard her story on EQ at work. And
with that, folks, thanks for tuning in Leah, thanks again
for joining us here and wishing you all the best
(29:27):
for lots of continued success.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Thanks Edith.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
I'd like to sum up this episode by talking about
a prominent element of emotional intelligence that Leah shared, and
that is emotional expression. This is our ability and tendency
to remain transparent with our emotions and to share and
communicate how we're feeling. When we're skilled in this area,
(30:01):
as Leah is, we are open and congruent in the
emotional messages that we send to others. Essentially, we're willing
to share our emotions appropriately, whether we're aware of it
or not. We are constantly giving out messages at an
emotional level. Sometimes it's the words we use, other times
(30:24):
it's our body language and our facial expressions. Other people
register these messages that we send out and they respond
both consciously and unconsciously. If you're not skilled in emotional expression,
you may tend not to communicate what you're thinking and feeling.
(30:44):
You may show up as, for example, having a flat
affect or a blank expression. Others may not know how
to approach you. They may not know that you hear
or understand what they're saying. You may have heard feedba
back that you're unaware of what's going on around you,
(31:05):
or you may be asked if you're okay or if
you're tuning in. And you also may show up as
distrustful of others, or detached or uncommunicative or even isolated.
If this sounds like you, put EQ to work with
these simple boosting strategies. It's always good to observe other
(31:27):
successful people. Find some people whom you appreciate or admire,
and note their facial expressions, their body language and the
words that they use. Can you tell what emotion they're feeling?
And if you can ask yourself how you know that
By observing other people who express themselves well, you can
(31:50):
better understand how to express yourself effectively. You can also
coach yourself with a few simple questions. For example, how
often do you talk about your emotions? How do others
know what you're feeling? And how do other people respond
to you in general. Lastly, there are a couple of
(32:11):
actions that you can take right now to boost your
emotional expression. First, take small steps and decide what you're
going to express and what emotion that will be. Second,
talk to a trusted friend or colleague and tell them
how you're feeling. Third, notice your body language and your
(32:35):
facial expressions when you express yourself. Do these match the
words that you use? And finally, what impact do you
have on people? Now? The more time you spend observing
yourself and others, the more you'll boost your emotional expression
and put EQ to work.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Thanks for listening to EQ Work. Find us using the
hashtag EQ at work or visit our website EQ at
work dot net. Subscribe to this podcast via iTunes, speaker,
or your favorite podcast platform. We'd love you to leave
a rating or review, and if you have a moment,
a simple share would be wonderful. Remember tell your friends.
(33:22):
Mastering your emotions matters. Tune in next week when Edith
talks about entrepreneurship and what to do if you are
thinking about starting your own business.
If you don't give up, something is going to happen
to turn the story around for you. Something is going
to happen. I did not have hope. I looked for
a job for fourteen months and then three separate jobs
in the same week of July where I came so
close to getting and they rejected me the same week
(00:25):
in July.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
So I had no hope.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
The hope came after I got the job in August
and I saw that somehow, like things turn around, if
you keep going, something is going to happen.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
That's going to change the story for you eventually.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
In this episode, Edith and our guests talk about unemployment,
switching careers, and why so hard to find a new job.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Hi, folks, I'm your host Edith Richards, and you may
know me from my podcast series Myers Briggs Question Corner
or my website at topcreer dot com. I've spent the
last twenty years of my career helping people get smart
about their careers, and I've found that lots of smart
people aren't successful.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Why is that.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
I'm convinced it's due to emotional intelligence. In EQ at work,
I'm bringing you inspiring people and messages to help you
get smart about your emotions.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
Hi, folks, Edith Richards here and today I'm with Leah Zabowski,
who's the deputy Communications team lead at the US Department
of Energy Solar Energy Tech Technologies Office. Welcome, Leah, Thanks
for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Edith.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
Yeah, we're so glad you're here. It's such important work
that you're doing, and we could have an entire episode
just devoted to that, but we're here to talk about
your career journey. I know it's taken you a lot
of uphill work to get to this point in your career,
and I'm sure we're going to get into all of that,
but first, welcome to the show. I'm so pleased you're here,
and I'm really excited for you to share your story
(02:27):
because it's such an inspiration to anyone who's been stuck professionally,
who's sent out thousands of resumes, gone on interviews, and
essentially just has done everything right and for whatever reason,
they aren't getting the results that they want. So that's
a little preview about what we'll be talking about today.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I was on that uphill road and we met there,
so I guess that's why I'm here.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I'm happy to talk about it.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
Yeah, So speaking of that, I'd like to start out
with the story of how you and I met, and
then we can get into all these careers accesses that
you've had. A few years ago, I got laid off
from a job that I loved, and I was fortunate
to land a new job very quickly in a completely
different industry. And I won't lie, it was really rough,
(03:13):
and I think in most workplaces there's not nearly enough
emphasis on a positive onboarding experience and helping new employees
get acclimated properly training new employees. But that's another story.
Suffice it to say that very shortly after I started
this new job, I was asked to speak at a
local event with an organization I'm involved with called Leaders
(03:35):
in Energy, and I was asked to speak on recreering
modern job search, especially with regards to green careers and
careers in the renewable energy space. So fast forward a
little bit. I did my little speech. I talked about
being laid off and how I was able to land
to this new job so quickly, and as usually happens
(03:55):
at events like this, several audience members came up to
me afterwards. And you happened to be one of those people, Leah.
And you know, I don't know what it was about you,
but to this day, it's something I remember so viscerally,
definitely something positive about your demeanor, because you asked me
in that moment how my new job was going. And
(04:17):
I still remember this so clearly. I said, I've cried
every day, and I watched your face and it was
this look of compassion mixed with oh my god, I
can't believe this stranger just told me that. And I've
thought about that moment so many times since then. What
(04:37):
was it about you that caused me to be completely
vulnerable in that moment to a stranger. I'd never met
you before, And I can only conclude that you have
some natural quality about you that disarms people, or at
least it disarmed me and gets people to open up
to you and maybe even trust you.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
You know, it's funny because because you recently reminded me
of that moment when we were preparing for this podcast,
and I had forgotten about it, but when you talked
about it, it came rushing back to me. And you know,
is this mixture of like it broke my heart, but
It also made me happy because I wanted to hear
(05:18):
why you were crying every day. And I think, you know,
I've been told that I have no poker face, so
this has been good and bad for me throughout my
career and throughout my life. But I think the fact
that I mean, I have no poker face, and I
honestly wanted to know how things were going. I was
(05:40):
interested in what you had to say that day. Obviously
I came up to you afterwards, so you know, you
saw that I had no poker face. I am who
I am, and that must have come through for you,
and that started our relationship of you know, work and
getting to know each other and trying to help each other.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
Yeah, it totally like it broke the ice in a way.
And we are often told, especially in the professional world,
we're told to hide our feelings. Feelings have no place
in the professional world, and for those of us who
are perhaps more emotional or sensitive, that's a really tall
order to fill, and I think a lot of us
(06:20):
end up feeling, at least on some level, like we
have to give up a part of ourselves if we're
to be successful at work. So that's kind of a
segue into how I guess your expressiveness or your lack
of a poker face, because it must have worked for
you in some way for you to get to the
point where you are now.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I suppose it has because I am where I am,
which is having a really good job as a contractor
at the Department of Energy Solar Office. So it's where
I wanted to be, and I got here. You know,
poker face or no poker face, And like I said,
I don't have one, and I'm full of feelings all
the time. I'm a very sensitive person, always have been.
(07:01):
I haven't always been this outspoken. If you had asked
me twenty years ago to do a podcast, I probably
would have said no.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I was very, very shy.
Speaker 5 (07:08):
Let's talk about how you got to this point in
your career.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
You know I had been doing something completely different for
seventeen or so years prior. I was a copy editor,
which basically means that I fixed grammar according to style
at different magazines in New York. So I lived in
a different city and I did a completely different job,
and I was very happy doing that job until I
wasn't anymore. Because it had been about seventeen years and
(07:35):
I became obsessed with climate change.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
So I was reading a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Of Elizabeth Colbert articles in the New Yorker and picking
up books and things like that.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
So I was getting antsy.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
So you had been a copy editor in New York.
Were you working for magazines.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Or yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
I had been on staff at several of them, including GQ,
a magazine called Details back in.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
The day, smart money. Those gone now, and then I
went freelance.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
For the last ten years of my career, I was freelancing,
so I'd work at like Glamour during the day, or
actually I worked at Glamour at night and in Style
during the day, or Popular Science or Time or New
York Magazine. So I bounced around a lot. I was successful.
It was a good thing, you know, I had the time.
I also was working, you know, about seventy hours a
(08:23):
week a lot of the time, for not a whole
lot of money. So yeah, I was burning out and
I was getting bored.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
So then you started, as you said, started reading articles
on climate change, and that got you interested in a
totally new career field.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
I was really enraged because I saw a lot of
problems that were happening that were totally our fault as
human beings, and nobody was really doing enough about them
to make a significant difference.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
And you know, I'm not somebody who likes to.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
March in the streets, although I have definitely done that,
because my father was a civil rights activist, and so
I think my first protest was a the Iraq War
and Times Square when I was a teenager. But you know,
when I see a problem that I get upset about,
I want to fix it somehow, and in this case,
it meant making it my new job, literally my job,
(09:16):
to fix climate change. So I ended up I guess
it was twenty sixteen. I wasn't planning on going back
to school, but I went to a green fair at
the Javit Center in New York City and there was
a man who was waving at me behind a booth.
He was just trying to get my attention, and it
turned out he was the director of the sustainability Management
program at American University, and he wanted to try to
(09:39):
get me interested in going back to school, which again
had not been the plan, but it became the plan.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
So he convinced you then to apply to American University,
and I guess that led you down to DC.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah, that's exactly what happened. So in twenty sixteen. I
also should mention that I'm slow to make big changes, right.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
You know.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I'd been dissatisfied with my life for probably since twenty twelve,
and it wasn't until twenty sixteen that I actually made
the move. And I will say that one of the
big things that happened that made me make the move
was my mother dying in twenty fifteen, which was kind
of a surprise. But after that year of grief and
(10:23):
managing her estate and taking care of everything, that was
when I realized, Okay, it's my time now, and something
like get me out of this town, get me out
of this current career, like let me.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Start over, because this is my life now.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
When you lose somebody close to you, as so many
people have during this horrible year, it shakes you up
and it makes you really get out of your comfort zone.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
So yeah, I came down to DC.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I did the Master's program in one year because I
went full time. I was lucky enough to have saved
enough money where I could go full time. I'd also
received some money from this coool to help and then
I was thrown into this world of having completed the program,
I had a master's degree. This is actually my second one.
(11:10):
I have a master's degree in journalism, which was also
a one year program that I got from Boston University
like twenty years ago. So that which led me into,
you know, working in magazines, which I had always wanted
to do, and now I wanted to do something related
to sustainability. So that's what I had, and then I
couldn't get a job.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
Oh my goodness. Okay, this is really quite a story here.
I mean, first of all, that you approximately at the
age of forty, I guess you just decided to drastically
change your life, to take back your life in a way.
And of course there were several events that happened, notably
your mom passing away that kind of served as the
catalyst for that change. You know, there's so many people,
(11:53):
I think probably tuning in, who have dreamed of doing
something like this, doing something more meaningful career wise or professionally,
and you've had the courage to do that, even though,
as you said, it took a couple of years of
being dissatisfied, but you did it. Sounds like pretty suddenly
take that leap, and then, you know, after doing so,
(12:16):
it sounded like didn't work out the way that you
wanted them to.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That's correct, things did not go well.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I spent fourteen months looking for a job after I graduated.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Oh gosh, I.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Was doing some freelance copy editing on the side, but
they were you know, book projects, which I'm of course
grateful for, because they kept me afloat. As I you know,
my savings dwindled, and I sat in this apartment in Washington,
d C. Where I basically had you know, no family
or friends. Okay, maybe one or two, but I mean
(12:49):
I have a tendency to look on that like the
glass is half empty all the time. That and I
have a history of depression as well. So to not
be working for fourteen after having been able to get
jobs just by word of mouth because I was good
at what I did back in New York, and now
I'm in a new city and I completed this program
(13:09):
and I was at zero.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I was negative, right, So and that's how we met.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
Yeah, you know, and I've talked to so many people
over the course of my career who have been there,
you know, and I'm sure there's a lot of folks
tuning in right now who are kind of in the
same boat. They've been laid off or they've been furloughed.
And you mentioned this horrible year. I should mention here
we're right at the end of twenty twenty as we're
recording this, and we are still in the midst of
the pandemic. So there's going to be more people when
(13:37):
this episode is published. I think who will be tuning
in and in this boat of you know, trying everything
and not being able to get the results that they want.
Speaker 5 (13:46):
So during that time, I have to ask what worked
for you? How did you get through that dark time?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I got a dog, Okay, I know it was in January.
I've lost all sense of time and meaning.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
You know, we're you know what are we We're in
December of twenty twenty right now. It's been a long
pandemic and I barely know what day it is. So
I do know that I got my dog in January.
It must have been months after I graduated, probably six
months after. And I knew that I needed a reason
to get out of bed in the morning, because, like
I said, depression, and I knew a dog was going
(14:23):
to do it, and I had had a dog previously,
but she had died ten years prior and I didn't
get over it for ten years.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
I've got your own now. He's saved my life, honestly.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
So for anyone who lives alone like I do, I
should mention I am child free and I am husband
free and always have been, and you know, maybe always
will be. But you know, it's important to have connection
with something. So aside from I have a small circle
(14:55):
of close family and friends that I would, you know,
text because I'm not a phone person anymore. Nobody really
is in these times, although the pandemic has probably changed that.
But back in twenty seventeen, in twenty eighteen, when I
was job searching, I wasn't a chatty person. So I
would text or I would email, right, So, you know,
(15:16):
staying connected and getting a dog.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
You know, that's an important first step because, as I've
often told other job seekers over the years, whatever it
is that you're feeling, whether you're anxious, whether you're depressed,
whether you're desperate for a job, somehow that's going to
come across when you communicate people, when you go to
networking events, when you go to interviews, and so whatever
(15:38):
negative emotions that you're feeling there in the moment, you
do need to somehow manage to get a handle on
that before you actually move forward with the technical aspect
of the job search. So fast forward to that. What
actually worked for you in terms of, you know, sending
out resumes linked in job search sites. How did you
(16:02):
manage to get this position where you are now?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I mean I leveraged the school right. You know, they
had career counselors. I wouldn't leave them alone because you know,
they basically owed me as far as I was concerned.
But yes, I beefed up my LinkedIn profile. I went
to events.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I am not a networker. I hate networking.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
I know I sound like probably an extrovert right now,
but don't consider myself one. So I have social anxiety.
I don't like going to events. But I made myself
go because I was desperate, and so I went to
events and I made myself talk to you know, one
or two people at each thing. I got business cards.
I tried to use them. I didn't always because depression
(16:47):
and fear of failure and also I guess imposter syndrome.
You know, you spin out it's impossible to kind of
control that. Sometimes, you know, there are ups and downs,
there are good days and bad days, and you to
have to like, you know, the thought of not having
a job and absolutely needing a job was enough to
put the fear of God in me to keep going,
(17:10):
you know, keep sending out the resumes. You are the
one who taught me because I went to an event
after I met you that first time. You told me
about something you were doing at the Arlington Library, so
I think it was a resume building workshop. And you
are the one that told me to tailor my resume
to each job posting so that you use the language
(17:30):
that the job posting has in your resume so the
algorithms can pick it up. So I started doing that.
And to be honest with you, I do not know
how I found this job. I mean where exactly I
found it. I don't know what I'm I wasn't on
a list serve like I found it, and I barely
understood what it was, which is ironic because I've worked
(17:50):
in communications and it wasn't abundantly clear what this position
was going to be. I didn't know that it had
something to do with solar. I knew what Solar was,
but not to the extent that I do now, and
I went for it, and they called me really quickly,
Like the time that I remember it was August. I
think I applied for that job on August fifth, and
(18:11):
by August eighteenth I had an offer.
Speaker 5 (18:13):
Wow. Okay, so that was a really quick turnaround time.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Then, very quick, and it was like magic, and.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Well deserved too, because after fourteen months sending out job
application after application and hundreds I know that you've gone
on many different interviews and things just did not seem
to click for whatever reason. And I think you were
someone who was doing everything correctly, and I just cannot
(18:40):
imagine how devastating that must be. In the midst of
that to you know, you'd question, you know, what's wrong
with me? What am I doing wrong? And still you
had something inside you that forced you to keep moving on. Now,
you mentioned it was fear of God and fear of
(19:00):
not having a job, but you know it, to me
sounds like there was something else there too, some glimmer
of hope, glimmer of optimism there that you know somehow
that just kept you going. Maybe it was your dog,
but things ended up working out and suddenly you got
this new position. And since you've gotten it, it sounds
(19:22):
like there's been a lot of good things that happened.
It was just a rapid series of promotions for you.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Well, I did get promoted. First.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Let me go back, because I do want to address
what you said about the glimmer of hope. I only
have that glimmer of hope now in himsight. I did
not have it then. What happened back then, actually, and
I'd forgotten about this or I crushed it down.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Because it was so painful.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Was that the June in July, right before August, when
I got the job, I had come so.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Close to getting three separate jobs. I am talking.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I went to a different city and they bought me lunch,
and they introduced me to like ten people and took
me around. Oh yeah, there were three jobs that I
came that close with that summer, and all three of
them rejected me the same week in July.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
Oh my gosh, that's awful.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
It was so bad.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
It was so dark that I mean, I am telling
you so there was no glimmer of hope. What I
will say is that there must be some magic out
there because and I'm a realist, Okay, I don't. But
the fact that I got this job, I don't know.
I don't remember how, except that I do remember applying
for it and couldn't tell you which website and that
(20:38):
it finally worked out. That's the magic. So I will say,
you know, if you keep if you don't give up,
something is going to happen to turn the story around
for you. Something is going to happen. I did not
have hope. I looked for a job for fourteen months,
and then three separate jobs in the same week of
(20:59):
July where I came so close to getting and they
rejected me the same week in July.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
So I had no hope.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
What the hope came after I got the job in August,
and I saw that somehow, like things turn around, if
you keep going, something is going to happen.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
That's going to change the story for you eventually.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
I love that. So just don't give up hope. There
is bound to be something that happens. It's so important
for anybody who's tuning in to hear what you're saying there.
I think it's so easy these days for people to
lose hope and to give up on themselves, and just
any small piece that you have, you know, whether it's
(21:44):
a pet, whether it's getting outside and taking a walk
every day, as long as there's that little bit to
get you up and get you moving and get you
looking to the future, those little things that you're doing
every day, that's where you start to build on things,
and that's where it starts to inspire. Hope, And I
want to Leah circle back to something that you said
(22:06):
at the beginning of our conversation, which was really about
your you know, you called it your poker face. I'm
going to call it like your natural expressiveness. I think
this is just it's such a part of who you are,
and to greater or lesser degrees, I think it has
contributed to your success professionally. What do you think about that.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I think that's probably true.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
You know, I think a lot of us are taught
to go through life presenting one way and then being another.
So I guess what I mean by that is that,
you know, especially for women and especially of women of
a certain age. Although you know things are starting to
change now, but you know, my mother was a very
sweet lady and was a good girl. Okay, she was
(22:53):
a very good girl, and then my father was a
loud mouth. And I am the glorious combination of.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
These two people.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Where I could see that, you know, my mother probably
loved my father because he was just unfailingly himself.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
He had no filter, just said what he wanted. It
didn't matter what other people thought of him.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
My father told me from a very young age, when
I was being bullied, of course, in sixth grade, you know,
it doesn't matter what other people think. What do you
care what other people think? And of course I did
care because I was in sixth grade, but I you know,
and he couldn't really tell me why I shouldn't, because
you know, when you're in sixth grade and you're a
girl and your father is telling you this, it doesn't
(23:38):
always you know, sink in. But yeah, I saw both
sides of how you're supposed to be and how you
really are. And for a lot of people that's two
different things. And for me, I'm not good at that.
I am my father's daughter in the way that I
am expressive, so I can try to say the right thing,
but if you're looking at me while I'm saying it,
(24:00):
you're gonna see that it's not really what I want
to be saying.
Speaker 5 (24:05):
Your words are saying one thing, but the expression on
your face is saying something completely opposite.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
And then, of course, because I'm May, I and often
defer to comic relief, just to try to make it
a kind of an even playing field for everybody so
that we're all feeling comfortable. And also because I need
to be liked, right, We all need to be liked
in this world, and we will all do all sorts
of things to try to get people to like us,
(24:32):
especially in a work situation, because it's your job. When
you need your job, I just try to make it,
you know, the even playing field where I crack a
joke is to try to get us all on the
same page, like, hey, we're just humans here, like trying
to get through the day. But here's my opinion about
that thing you just asked me, And it may not
(24:53):
be what you wanted to hear, but and I'll do
what you say because you're my boss.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
But I might not like totally agree with it right now.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
But somehow you've been able to find a workplace that
not just accepts you for that, but values you for
your opinions and for your frankness and they have rewarded
you as such. I mean, you've been able to grow
with this company.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
That is actually true.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
When I was hired, I was hired as a program
analyst slash writer, and I got promoted to the deputy
communications team lead position.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
About a year after that, there was.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
A vacancy and I was approached to advance into it,
and so I've taken that on and my role has
since changed dramatically and it's been quite a challenge and
I've learned so much. But yes, I find that I
work in an office where people accept me for who
I am and maybe even like me for it. And
(25:54):
you can't really ask for a whole lot more than that.
But foundationally, if you're not comfortable with where you spend
the majority of your life, you're in trouble, you know.
Speaker 5 (26:06):
Yeah, I mean I think we're all on some level.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
We may not be aware of it, but we're looking
for workplaces and organizations and people who support these natural
tendencies in ourselves. And after a long, long, uphill battle,
I think you've finally found it. And I'm so pleased
for you.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Thank you, you know.
Speaker 5 (26:26):
And as we're wrapping up here, I would like to
cite this one question for you, because I think there's
a lot of people out there who are not only
struggling with the job search, but even deciding if a
career change is the right choice for them. I think
we a lot of us reach this point mid career
and we want to do something that's more personally fulfilling
(26:49):
or more meaningful. What would you say to these folks
who are even struggling to make that decision?
Speaker 1 (26:55):
If you go with your gut and check your happiness level, right,
Because like I was just saying, you know, if you're
not happy where you spend the majority of your day,
which is at work, I.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Do think you're in trouble.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
And if you are considering, like changing your career, the
fact that you're considering it means that something isn't quite right.
You're not checking all the boxes that you want to
check in your life. And we're only here for a
limited amount of time. It's our lives, it's our chance
to just you know, run our lives the way we
(27:29):
want to. And so if you, you know, check your gut,
what would you.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Rather be doing? You don't even have to know. I
didn't know. I didn't know how to verbalize. That was
a big problem for me.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I work in communications, and I couldn't verbalize exactly what
I wanted to be doing. I just wanted to solve
climate change, and I didn't know how to do that.
But I did know that I could write, and I
can edit, and I could put words together, and I
could also it turns out make complicated science accessible to
regular folks who are not scientists, and that's what I do,
(28:03):
and that's great for me. Like I figured it out eventually,
but for a long time, I couldn't figure that out.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
So you you know, I'm talking to the audience here.
You don't have to know.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
You just have to have an inkling, and it would
have helped to know. Like maybe it wouldn't have taken
me fourteen months to find the job. But if you
have an inkling that there's something else you'd rather be doing,
then I would investigate that pretty hard.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
Absolutely, take that leap. You don't have to know what
the end result is going to be, but just take
that leap of faith and it will surely be better
than where you are now. Yeah, Cleah, I really appreciate
you sharing your story. It's so inspiring what you've done.
How would you like listeners and subscribers to be able
(28:45):
to get in touch with you?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Oh, you can find me on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Message me there, but tell me in the message who
you are or why you're writing to me, because I'll
just probably overlook it otherwise. But yeah, So I'm Leah
is l e A h and Zabalski is zib U
l Sky.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
Okay. We'll provide your contact information and the listening notes,
and if you're tuning in and would like to connect
with le on LinkedIn, please do be sure to send
a personalized message with your request and let her know
that you heard her story on EQ at work. And
with that, folks, thanks for tuning in Leah, thanks again
for joining us here and wishing you all the best
(29:27):
for lots of continued success.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Thanks Edith.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
I'd like to sum up this episode by talking about
a prominent element of emotional intelligence that Leah shared, and
that is emotional expression. This is our ability and tendency
to remain transparent with our emotions and to share and
communicate how we're feeling. When we're skilled in this area,
(30:01):
as Leah is, we are open and congruent in the
emotional messages that we send to others. Essentially, we're willing
to share our emotions appropriately, whether we're aware of it
or not. We are constantly giving out messages at an
emotional level. Sometimes it's the words we use, other times
(30:24):
it's our body language and our facial expressions. Other people
register these messages that we send out and they respond
both consciously and unconsciously. If you're not skilled in emotional expression,
you may tend not to communicate what you're thinking and feeling.
(30:44):
You may show up as, for example, having a flat
affect or a blank expression. Others may not know how
to approach you. They may not know that you hear
or understand what they're saying. You may have heard feedba
back that you're unaware of what's going on around you,
(31:05):
or you may be asked if you're okay or if
you're tuning in. And you also may show up as
distrustful of others, or detached or uncommunicative or even isolated.
If this sounds like you, put EQ to work with
these simple boosting strategies. It's always good to observe other
(31:27):
successful people. Find some people whom you appreciate or admire,
and note their facial expressions, their body language and the
words that they use. Can you tell what emotion they're feeling?
And if you can ask yourself how you know that
By observing other people who express themselves well, you can
(31:50):
better understand how to express yourself effectively. You can also
coach yourself with a few simple questions. For example, how
often do you talk about your emotions? How do others
know what you're feeling? And how do other people respond
to you in general. Lastly, there are a couple of
(32:11):
actions that you can take right now to boost your
emotional expression. First, take small steps and decide what you're
going to express and what emotion that will be. Second,
talk to a trusted friend or colleague and tell them
how you're feeling. Third, notice your body language and your
(32:35):
facial expressions when you express yourself. Do these match the
words that you use? And finally, what impact do you
have on people? Now? The more time you spend observing
yourself and others, the more you'll boost your emotional expression
and put EQ to work.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Thanks for listening to EQ Work. Find us using the
hashtag EQ at work or visit our website EQ at
work dot net. Subscribe to this podcast via iTunes, speaker,
or your favorite podcast platform. We'd love you to leave
a rating or review, and if you have a moment,
a simple share would be wonderful. Remember tell your friends.
(33:22):
Mastering your emotions matters. Tune in next week when Edith
talks about entrepreneurship and what to do if you are
thinking about starting your own business.
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