Is It a Happy Easter In The Government? With John Rothmann

John Rothmann, host of Around The Political World, joins us to discuss celebrating Easter, Joe McCarthy, and what will happen if Donald Trump is found guilty?

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Episode Transcript

(00:10):
Face Paul America. I'm Bao WolfRockland. Well spring is really sprung.
The weather is so nice. It'sthe day after Easter. If you celebrated,
you know, that's wonderful. Ifyou didn't celebrate, you know,
that's fine too. But there's reasonsfor celebration just in the weather and the
atmosphere. And there is cause forcelebration on this podcast because John Rothman is

(00:34):
with us, the host of Aroundthe Political World with John Rothman. John,
Welcome back to Face Paul America.Thank you so much for being here.
Oh my pleasure. I almost puton my Easter bonnet, but then
I decided what the heck it wasYesterday they're having an Easter egg roll,
the traditional one at the White Housetoday, I assume, right, I
haven't seen that. Yes, youknow, I love the Easter a roll

(00:54):
at the White House. It's absolutelymarvelous. And you heard. Of course,
the trumpets are all upset. Tworeasons. One, there's no religious
symbolism of this Easter egg role.There never has been, by the way.
In fact, the most religious thingthey did was used to have the
Easter bunny show up. I don'tknow if that happened this year. But
the second thing is, you know, yesterday was Easter Sunday, it was

(01:15):
also Transgender Awareness Day, and ohmy, oh good. That's very offensive
to Republicans, I suppose, wellto some, not the log cabin Republicans,
I don't think, but the Republicansin general. But it's really quite
astounding that the religious right is nowcondemning the president because he celebrated Transgender Awareness

(01:38):
Day on Easter Sunday. They maynot know that the calendar does not conform
to their particular proclivities, and that, in fact, March thirty first is
always that day. Of course,you know what March thirty first is for
me? What's that for me?It was being in Wisconsin. I'd been
with Richard Nixon all day in nineteensixty eight and in Milwaukee, back to

(02:00):
Madison and listened to Lyndon Johnson withdrawas a candidate for President of the United
States. It was an unforgettable evening. I'm telling you, I from everything
that I've read, that was itwas a very sudden and unexpected thing.
What was your response in that momentnow, what fifty six years ago?
Yeah, Well, I was withNixon in Wisconsin and the Johnson. People

(02:23):
were out, that is to say, you know, support the president.
The whole nine yards. Everybody wasattacking Eugene McCarthy. And then I sat
in my hotel room watched the announcementwith incredulity. It was stunning, the
abdication of a president. So allI can tell you is I've seen it
before. We may see it again. You never know, but that's what

(02:47):
I always think of. On Marchthirty first, although I do acknowledge the
fact, and I talked about itin my podcast this morning, that President
George Washington said, give bigotry nosanction, and yet what we are seeing
now from those who are attacking transgenderfellow citizens is exactly that bigotry. It

(03:08):
doesn't have to mean that you're atransgender, but it's shocking. And I
must tell you, equally shocking tome was the Berkeley City Council meeting last
week, where the hatred of Jewswas so manifest, it was offensive,
it was appalling, And do youthink anybody really objected. No, So
all I can say is, whetheryou're a transgender, or you're a Jew,

(03:30):
or black or your Muslim, theidea of this kind of giving bigotry
permission to flourish is really shocking.And if you read Donald Trump's true social
you know, it's just filled withbigotry and it's appalling. But that seems
to be where we are today,and that to me is the saddest thing

(03:51):
of all. You know, itseems to me we should include in that
list like the Easter bunny him orherself, because if they're is a feeling
that there there is not adequate youknow, Christian religious fervor on Easter,
then it would seem to me thatthat the Easter Bunny, as a secular

(04:13):
symbol of Easter and spring renewal,would then be under attack. Could it
be John that the that the Christianright is launchering a war on the Easter
Bunny? Could it be that wecould could see for a demand for the
removal of chocolate, you know,Cadbury eggs from shelves across the country this
time next year. Heresy, Isay, heresy. It's like the old

(04:36):
cry of there put Christ back inChristmas. Yeah, I'm a nice Jewish
boy. The only thing that appealedto me about Christmas was Santa Claus,
and he was a non denominational figureexactly. I say, I played Santa
Claus on a number of occasions andalways enjoyed the joy that it brought to
children. And all you have todo is see Miracle on thirty fourth Street

(04:58):
to understand that the true truth symbolof Christmas was not Christ but rather sanate
flaws. Now some would say,what a horrible thing to say, but
that's the reality. Coca Cola didn'tcelebrate the birthday of Christ. It celebrated
state laws. That's that's absolutely correct. And they didn't put you know,
Jesus drinking a bottle of coke ontheir advertisements for so many years, so

(05:26):
you know, I'm I'm with younow. The other big issue today is
a Speaker Johnson, Oh yes,house said he is going to put on
the floor of the House of Representativesthe appropriation for Ukraine. The far right
of the Republican Party in the Housevery upset about it. Will they topple
Speaker Johnson or will they hold theirnoses and allow it to go through?

(05:50):
This is the great question we willsee in answer this week. I think
Speaker Johnson, who were he notSpeaker, would probably have opposed aid to
Ukraine, is now understanding that thespotlight of history is on him, and
so we have to wait now andsee how that goes. But the disarray

(06:10):
in Republican ranks is astounding. Andof course we saw in Alabama last week
that the state House the legislature flippedto from Republican control of the Democrat control.
And the reason the Democrats won theDemocratic Party campaigned horror on the idea
of a woman's right to choose.I would say that the signals are not
good. And I was listening thismorning to commentary about whether African Americans will

(06:34):
vote for Joe Biden. I cantell you that there's no point in cutting
off your nose to spite your face. Whatever unhappiness they may have with Joe
Biden, and I think it's probablynot as much as people say. It
would be much worse with Donald Trump, who clearly gives sanction to bigotry.
That's certainly true. And yeah,you know on many counts about Joe Biden,

(07:02):
as you and I have discussed inthe past, but I think it's
clear that Donald Trump leads us downsuch a dark pathway as a choice for
president of the United States that it'sjust not something that we can abide.
It's interesting to me, you know, Marjorie Taylor Green and others on the
far right in the House of Representativestrying to or in the process of ousting

(07:29):
Speaker Johnson. It's just fascinating tome the timing that they choose leading up
to the election. I mean,basically, they are giving the Democrats a
shot at leading the House of Representativeson the one hand, or at least
like causing complete disarray in their rankson what is almost certainly going to be

(07:50):
a very close election. On theirpart, it just seems like they have
you know, it's fine with mebecause I oppose them politically, but that
they just have no sense of strategyand timing. They just want what they
want and they're going to push itno matter what. Now, let me
also make a comment about Robert Kennedy'schoice for vice president. Robert Kennedy Junior

(08:13):
should know that who is vice Presidentof the United States matters. Now.
It's true she's a billionaire and shecan give him as much money as he
wants. And it's true that shepaid for the ad and Super Bowl Sunday,
which, by the way, wasan ad a rip off from his
uncle John f. Kennedy, forwhich the family demanded an apology. Look,

(08:33):
can you imagine nominating somebody for VicePresident of the United States who public
record opposes vaccines, who, well, she's consistent with Bobby Kennedy exactly.
Let me just say, I don'tbegrudge Robert Kennedy Junior his name nor his
family, but I do resent histaking advantage of his father's name to run

(08:54):
for president. I am always remindedof the story we were talking about Johnson's
withdrawal. I always remember being inWisconsin in nineteen hundred and sixty eight.
I remember Joe McCarthy had been theSenator from Wisconsin. He died in nineteen
fifty seven, and there was alittle old lady who appeared to me to
be a sure thing for Richard Nixon. And I said, you are voting

(09:16):
for Nixon. She said, ohno, she said, I'm voting for
McCarthy. I've always voted for Joe, and I'm going to vote for him
again. And you laugh at it, But I think it's very important to
understand the confusion when it comes tonames. Yeah and so, but I
Eugen, not Joe. No,it's it's you know, something I've wanted

(09:37):
to ask you about for a longtime. That I because I hadn't before
I read the books on Lyndon Johnsonby Robert Carroll, I hadn't known a
whole lot about the background of RobertF. Kennedy R FK. Junior's dad,
and I found it fascinating the transformationthat he went under seemed to have
gone under during the nineteen sixties,because during the nineteen fifty he was a

(10:01):
member of Joe McCarthy's staff, andI found that fascinating me. Clearly,
at an earlier point in his politicalcareer he had held some pretty starkly reaction
or any views, and he evolvedhis job. He got the job because
of his father, and Joe McCarthyactually dated one of the Kennedy women.

(10:22):
And Joe McCarthy was a lovely manin terms off, he wasn't drinking,
evidently, very charming, good looking, and Kennedy ultimately left not because of
his disagreements with McCarthy, but becausehe didn't like Roy Cohen, and that
was the reason he left the staff. But people do evolve. I like
to remind people that if you readAbraham Lincoln September the fourteenth, eighteen fifty

(10:43):
eight. You will see in thefourth joint debate with Stephen A. Douglas
at Freeport. What you'll note isthat Lincoln himself said that African Americans were
inferior. And it's a fast thingto remember. People's views evolved. Bobby
Kennedy's views evolved over Vietnam. Hehad been a staunch defender of that policy

(11:07):
of his brother and Lindon Johnson whenhe decided to change his mind. Which
goes to show you that people havethe ability to have that flexibility. And
one would think one would think inthe Republican Party that they would understand the
peril of Donald Trump. Let memake another quick comment about Ronal Romney McDaniel.
As you know, I defended herbeing hired by NBC. I had

(11:30):
no problem with her being hired byNBCF. NBC wanted to throw away three
hundred thousand dollars a year. Thatwas their business, although they had been
better off hiring Bailwolf Rockland or JohnRothman, to be very honest with you,
but the simple reality is then theyreversed themselves and they let her go.
And it was because of her fellowworkers who said she shouldn't be there.

(11:52):
I thought that was shameful. I'mno defender of Rona Romney McDaniel,
but I'd rather have her front andcenter, being interviewed, talked about then
what happened in this case where shewas deep sixth for her political views.
I don't want a commentator deep sixfor his or her particular views. I
want to hear what people have tosay. You know, Hubert Humphrey said

(12:15):
it best of the nineteen forty eightDemocratic National Convention when he said, the
only way you expose bigotry is underthe bright sunshine of freedom. I believe
in the first Amendment. Okay,I wouldn't have signed a contract with her
for three hundred thousand dollars, veryhonest with you. But the point is,
I hope she does give commentary,and I hope she is smart enough

(12:35):
to understand the danger of Donald Trumpand may ultimately reveal that. And by
the way, if she did,she'd be hired immediately because that reflected the
political trend. It's one of thethings. One of the things to you
and I have done is always includeda diversity of opinion. I think that's
very important. No, it isimportant and I completely understand, you know,

(12:56):
frankly, I can't. I don'tunderstand by a network like MSNBC would
have, you know, hired herto begin with, and I completely understand
why they got rid of her.I don't you know, if I happen
to be watching you know, MSNBC, I don't particularly want to be like,

(13:16):
you know, like confronted with thatviewpoint unless I like go and deliberately
selected out. It's sort of likewhat you get on Fox with a continual
diatribe and high paid salaries for peoplelike Sean Hannity and Mark Levin, who
frankly reflect that same point of view. Well, they do, and they
control you see, I don't know. I I believe that the current system

(13:41):
where everything is is siloed, andI understand this kind of play plays into
that. It obviously doesn't work particularlywell. But then on the other hand,
you're not really going to get muchon the other side from a Fox
News, not in this day andage. You know, now that you
know Alan Colmes has has passed fromthe scene and others you don't, you

(14:01):
don't get the same kind of ofbalance, and you know, in a
perfect use to him, I wouldlove to see ron A Rome, Nate
McDaniel be uh be be represented andbut I just I can understand why they
wanted to uh see see her gobecause he doesn't fit in with the network
from from the perspective of the kindof network that they that they put out

(14:22):
there. But it should be quoint. Counterpoint you mentioned, correct, nobody
remembers Combs, but it was Hannityand Combs, Yeah, because they had
different point of view where nobody remembers. Crossfire on CNN when you had a
Pap Buchanan against the liberal Democrat,well there was at various times. I
remember because I remember watching that thatshow in the mid nineties, and at

(14:45):
one point it was Michael Kinsley,who was later of Slate, who was
a who was a really sharp guy. And later it was Oh, I'm
trying to remember the it's I've methim in person and I can't remember his
name. You know the three signsof getting older, Bail. The first
thing is you forget things, andthe second one is yes, I know,

(15:09):
I can't remember. He filled infor Ron Owens on a couple of
occasions on Cajuns Bill Press. Thankyou very much. That way, I
didn't want to you know, embarrassyou in any way. Oh please feel
free? Please? No, No, absolutely no. I believe in diversity
of opinion. That's the reason whyI'm looking forward to the Trump Biden debates

(15:39):
if they in fact take place,because people have to be held accountable.
Look, if you have been readingDonald Trump's true social it's disgraceful what he's
doing there. And the attack onthe judge, the attack on the judge's
daughter. I mean, the manhas I think, lost, at least
with me, any credibility. Helost that a long time ago. But

(16:02):
this really does it. It's theicing on the cake. So where are
the Republicans standing up and telling uswhat they think about him? I mean,
really, it's interesting because it seemslike a few people on Capitol Hill
I'm in the GOP are actually standingup and saying that you've got to,
you know, lower the volume alittle bit, Donald when it comes to
making attacks on the judges. Andyou know, of course he's not going

(16:27):
to. I don't know why theyeven bother to begin with, because asking
Donald Trump to quiet down a littlebit please has obviously not worked at any
place. Whether he's quieted down ornot. It's his record it's the disgraceful
use of and abuse exactly. Idon't understand why they think that would work,

(16:48):
like as if we're just going toforget about everything that Donald Trump has
done over the course of his politicalWe asked a question on April fifteenth,
you pay your income tax? Yes, well, I think officially we've done
it already, but yes, bythat time. Signaling on April fifteenth,
income tax will fade as Donald Trumpgoes on trial, and I hope this
is the first of many trials,So the most important single thing will be

(17:11):
if he's sound guilty. Will theguilty verdict, which I think is clear
and self evident, be dismissed bythose who support him as if it doesn't
matter. This to me also isanother critical, critical question, where is
the conscience of the American people whenit comes to and particularly Trump voters.

(17:32):
I listen, I listen to thesmears against Joe Biden, the attempts to
prove that he is not really compassmentto anymore. Well, last time I
looked, Joe Biden didn't confuse NICKIHaley with Nancy Pelosi. I mean,
there is a hypocrisy here. Solet me tell you what I'm looking for
now, I'm looking for the Republicans. I want to see how the Republicans

(17:56):
respond to Trump being on trial.What I think are near certain convictions coming
up. How will they then respond? And of course the big thing beyo
Wolf, And I think I've toldyou this before, is I'm waiting for
the defeat of Donald Trump, themassive defeat of Donald Trump. Yeah,
so that the Republican Party can rebuildlooking back to its roots. And I
think that will be a critical moment. Believe me, I hope. So

(18:19):
I guess what I see is thecore of Donald Trump's support is never really
going to believe that he can doany wrong, at least for not but
not for the foreseeable, for yourfuture. But the core of Donald Trump's
support is not the entirety of theGOP, or of the electorate that votes

(18:41):
for Donald Trump. So I thinkthat with these, with these like convictions,
which I think you are correct,we will inevitably see you will see
a slow winnowing away saying I've hadenough, this is too much for me.
It's not going to happen all atonce, but it will happen,
you know, over the course oflike the next few months, and that

(19:03):
it is my hope will draw enoughstrength away from him to prevent him from
becoming president. That's the scenario Isee. Can we turn to foreign policy
for a moment and let me saya word about Ukraine. If Ukraine is
lost, and I use that termhistorically, it will be the fault of
the Republicans, because the Republicans needto put up the money that we have

(19:26):
guaranteed the Ukrainians in terms of arms, munitions, public support. I don't
hear the Republicans doing that. It'sa far cry from the days of when
the Republicans insisted on celebrating Captive NationsWeek and when the Republicans are in the
forefront of attacking Russian imperialism. Thishas to happen, and I equip I

(19:47):
may about the Middle East. Isimply want to say I watched a clip
of the City Council meeting in Berkeleylast week where it wasn't about the Middle
East. It was hatred of Jews. It was one of the most stunning,
impossible moments I've seen in a publicforum, and Berkeley the home of
free speech, and their attack onJews was to me absolutely appalling. So

(20:11):
I want to emphasize that as well, because there are a lot of undercurrents
in this campaign. When George Washingtonsaid give to bigotry, no ability to
function in this country, no sanction, but I was trying to put it
in a different word, he wasright. And the bigotry that we see

(20:33):
reflected today, whether it is againsttransgender, whether it's against Jews, frankly,
whether it is against Asians. Andhere in the San Francisco Bay Area
we have a huge Asian American communitywho were constantly under attack, and there
needs to be an understanding that thelevel of bigotry that has been made apparent
I think by the Trump candidacy needsto be addressed in our society. It

(20:57):
is it's something that we need tohave a national conversation about. I look
to what South Africa went through inthe post apartheid period and the truth and
reconciliation commissions and hearings that they had. I almost tend to think that we
need something of that nature to recoverfrom the Trump era. You know,

(21:19):
once knocking on wood there he isdefeated come November, because people need to
understand if Jews in this country feelinsecure, and they do with real,
real passion. First time I've heardthis kind of response in my own community,
in the Jewish community. It's fear, and the American people cannot allow

(21:44):
that kind of fear to grow againstany And I think that's that's the bottom
line. Yeah, Yeah, weneed to put an end to hate in
this country. And I truly thinkthat Donald Trump has been the biggest force
in you know, bringing that youknow to the surface. You know,

(22:04):
I think it's existed and probably toone extent or another, will always exist
beneath the surface in this country.If that raised Tim Scott's possibility of becoming
the Republican nominee for vice president,one would hope, One would hope so,
But I don't know. I trulythink that the well of hate is

(22:26):
is too deep for something like that, And even if Trump did it,
obviously it would be something that waswas very cynical and very superficial and didn't
speak to the core of you know, his beliefs. To the extent that
any such thing exists, I'm notconvinced that there is, And I know
that you have serious questions in thatregard as well. John. It is

(22:48):
always a pleasure to speak with you, whether it is the start of the
first full month of spring, orany day of the week, but Mondays
here are especially reserved for you,and I have enjoyed this one truly.
Thank you so much for being withus here on face Palm America. Sir,
my pleasure. Have a wonderful AprilFool's Day. And I'm not fooling
when I say that I treasure myfriendship with bebol Frocklin. Thank you so

(23:12):
much for being with us on facePalm America today. I really appreciate that
you listen. Our show is puttogether by two Squared Media Productions. You
can find out more about them attwo Squaredmedia Productions dot com. I want
to thank Ace Elson and Rooseabel Hinewho produced this show, and please share
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(23:34):
And until next time, enjoy theday.