August 28, 2025 • 49 mins
Christine and Steve welcome Janice Selbie, a counselor and author of Divorcing Religion, who opens up about being deceived by a sociopathic conman who stole both her heart and her money. Janice shares how her background, religious upbringing, and trust left her vulnerable—and how she turned her pain into purpose. She now helps others heal through her podcast, book, and private practice at DivorcingReligion.com
Fifty Shades of Bullshit is broadcast live Thursdays at 4PM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Fifty Shades of Bullshit TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Fifty Shades of Bullshit Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Fifty Shades of Bullshit is broadcast live Thursdays at 4PM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Fifty Shades of Bullshit TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Fifty Shades of Bullshit Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The following show contains adult content. It's not our intent
to offend anyone, but we want to inform you that
if you are a child under the age of eighteen
or get offended easily, this next show may not be
for you. The content, opinions, and subject matter of these
shows are solely the choice of your show hosts and
their guests, and not those of the Entertainment Network or
any affiliated stations. Any comments or inquiry you should be
(00:21):
directed to those show hosts. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hey everyone, and welcome to Fifty Shades of Bullshit. I'm
your host, Christine Lalan and this is the podcast where
we uncover the truth about online dating.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Now let's begin.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Hey, I'm Christine and I'm Steve, and this is fifty
Shades of Bullshit.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Oh are you Steve?
Speaker 5 (00:50):
I'm good. How you doing. I'm good.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
It's so great to see your face again. It's been
a little bit.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
How did your reading go? Last week?
Speaker 6 (01:00):
Eating went well? Yes, we are rolling out this show,
this one man's show. We haven't talked about it on here,
but no we haven't.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
But I went just so the listeners know. I went
to Steve's I think it was what three three weeks ago,
three or four weeks ago that Yeah, I went to
your place and I was there for one of your
table readings for your One Man's show, and it was
quite and it left a deep impression on me.
Speaker 6 (01:30):
Tell me what what it brought up in your mind
and thoughts and heart.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
You know that I really can relate, and I think
a lot of our listeners, anybody listening, can relate to
the fact that a lot of us sim to long
for a place that we miss without really knowing what
that is. Like we long for this, but it's like
a homesickness for a place that we can't go back to,
(01:58):
or a place that we haven't found. And your story
of your life and your journey and hearing about your heartaches,
your heartbreaks, your joys, your passions told in stories that
are poignant and sweet and endearing and loving and funny,
and I just really enjoyed it. I was felt very
(02:22):
special to be able to be part of it and
meet your lovely friends. Your friends are amazing.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
I have friends.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I really enjoyed it. Everybody was
welcoming and sweet and I loved it.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
So yeah, thank you, thank you for the lovely reflection.
This is the first I guess time of actually somebody's
anybody's mentioned it publicly, so well.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
I've done it without your consent.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
Yeah, so I've been outed, but.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
You have, but no why I would say, you know,
let's shout it from the tops. It's going to be
an incredible show and I will be the first one
there on opening night.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
All right.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
I just love it.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I think it's amazing.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
I also, you know, think that we should talk further
about possibly filming it very cinematically, very you know, like
the lighting, the stuff that you're all talking about while
you were reading, and I think that we should at
least two you know, have something for you. Plus you
(03:30):
can always do something online with it, and you never know,
make a sizzle for your show, you know.
Speaker 7 (03:37):
For sure.
Speaker 6 (03:38):
I want to do a reel that I could present,
and let's see if we can start farming it out
to theaters around the country and get myself out there.
I know, still in the early stages though, we're still
doing what I call living.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
Room readings, and I don't know anyone with a living
room can host me.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
I will say though, that you should come in by place.
I'll get some people together. I think that you're a
lot further along than you think you are. I think
you're more hesitant, you know. But I think you just,
you know, fine, tune your pops buzzes and whistles and
(04:20):
slim them down for sure. I think that you want
to put too much in. I think it's all really
about you and not about the presentation of everything else.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
Yeah, everybody says keep it simple.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Mm hmmm. Yeah, but I think it's lovely and I
can't wait for you to actually see it in realization,
in real rural time.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
And yeah, it's happening.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
I love it. Well, good job.
Speaker 5 (04:46):
Thanks.
Speaker 6 (04:48):
Tell me about our guests, because I have not met
this guest.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
Shall we shall we?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Yeah? She actually came as a recommendation from Janice.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
Okay, what oh.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
I always go to say the names of her podcast,
and I never can remember them right when I go
to say them. So sex and the solo Girl I
think is one, and then the other ones about broken
hearts and breakups and moving on. But Jenna has referred
this guest to us, and let me tell you a
little about her before we bring her on. Her name
(05:22):
also is Janice Janice Selby. She's a counselor and author
of Divorcing Religion, who opens up about being deceived by
a sociopathic con man who stole both her heart and
her money. Jenna her background, religious upbringing and truth and
trust left her vulnerable, and how she turned her pain
(05:44):
into purpose. She now helps others heal through her podcast,
her book, and her private practice at divorcingreligion dot com.
Let's welcome Jennie Selby. She is going to tell us
all about her experience with how He's Heart Monday. Jennie,
(06:05):
Welcome to the show girl.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
How are from British Columbia. Good good. I'm happy to
join you both, and I can't wait till Steve brings
this show to Canada. I know, living room, We'll do it.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
I love it. Well. Welcome Janis. Thank you for being here.
Tell us a little about yourself beyond what.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I was saying in your interest. Sure. Yeah, So I
grew up in a very religious home, and so I
think I was primed to trust people. And I went
through most of my life actually till I got to
be about forty. And at that point that's when I
started deconstructing the views that I had been indoctrinated with
(06:46):
from my very well meaning parents, and then I ended
up divorcing my husband and my religion. So that's quite
a bit to go through all at once. And then
it was kind of like I'm out in the open.
I I'm going to have another teenage, like an adolescence
that I never had before. We're going to live it up,
We're going to do all these things. But there, you know,
(07:10):
there is some danger that can come with that when
we're we're not expecting it. I mean, I had only
been with my husband for almost twenty years. I had
never hadn't been dating anyone or looking at, you know,
for another relationship, and then to suddenly be rust into
the online world and I mean I'm getting unsolicited pictures
(07:34):
of male genitalia like it was just shocking because also
remember I had been quite religious too, so and here
I am on my dating profiles trying to be quite
honest about myself and expecting and thinking that the man
you're going to get to that are also going to
be honest. And I'm sure there are some out there,
but so yeah, it was it was challenging.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Well, I think it is very challenging for people who
have been in long term relationships and marriages throughout their
twenties and thirties and even you know, part of their forties,
and even some people into their fifties, and then all
of a sudden, you know, they find themselves not wanting
to be alone, wanting to find love and thinking, well,
(08:19):
everybody's talking about this online thing, and it seems to
be where everybody goes to find somebody, and it is
very frightening. It can be very overwhelming. And what we
try to strive here on this podcast to do is
to teach people about these pitfalls and how to protect
yourself and how love can be found out there. Just
(08:41):
it takes a little bit of trial and error and understanding.
So that's why we have you here today because I
know that you went full force into dating and you
met somebody. Please tell us about this.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I did well. The first fellow that I met and
I ended up moving in with and having a longer
term relationship with that was that felt amazing. So he
owned a high end luxury travel business and he had
lots of money. I was pretty much used to poverty,
(09:17):
So this being with this person really expanded me and
opened my eyes to a life that I didn't know
I could ever participate in. And I thought we had
a wonderful relationship. It was more of an open type relationship,
but we lived together. But then, shockingly to me, he
pulled the rug out from under me and he said, nope,
(09:39):
I've met somebody else, you know, move along. And so
then I was extremely broken heart. I just plunged into
the depths of grief. I was really like blinded by it.
I didn't see it coming. And so then I moved
from this high end luxury condo downtown, moved into this grimy,
(10:02):
illegal basement suite on the outskirts of town because that's
all I could afford. And my days and nights just
seemed to consist of weeping. And I've lost a ton
of weight only because I couldn't eat. I had no apputate.
It really was deeply depressed and saddened by it. And
(10:24):
so then I gave myself a few months where you know,
I wasn't going to look at anything online, wasn't interested.
I needed to try and rebuild myself. And then eventually
I decided, Okay, I'm gonna go back online and see
what other fish are out there. And this person showed
(10:46):
up in my feet and I think he had showed
up earlier at some point, but I hadn't. I had
just ignored him. But it was persistent, and he seemed
kind of funny, that kind of charming. There's a lot
of word. Remember, to charm is a verb, so he
seemed charming. He was older than the previous one, so
that he seemed more mature, and so he said he
(11:09):
would really like to meet up. And so I would
only go and meet people for the first time at
a pub, like in a very public place. I would
always buy my own meal. And then I remember I
found him quite engaging. He's a great storyteller. And then
when we were leaving, he asked if he could have
(11:30):
a kiss, and I said no, but I'll give you
a hug. And I gave him a hug. That's what
I was comfortable with. And then I went back to
my place. And then you know, he was messaging me
quite regularly from that time on. And I did find
he was a little bit pushier physically than I would
have liked, but I didn't. I didn't hold back on that.
(11:52):
You know, what do you think drew you into him?
Speaker 4 (11:55):
What made you really start to turn them?
Speaker 7 (11:59):
Right?
Speaker 4 (12:00):
I know because I've been in this type of relationship,
but I would like our listeners to hear how that
what happens in that.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Transition, right, Yeah, there's there can be such a vulnerability
when we are the dumpy rather than the dumper, feeling
like we are unlovable. Who would ever find us attractive
again or want to be with us? Especially? I mean,
once you're over forty, you become really super aware of
(12:29):
just not being as young as you once were, and
so that I think I was vulnerable in that way.
And he also was very likable. He told great stories,
and he seemed quite generous. Eventually I introduce him to
(12:50):
my family and they also thought that he was a
terrific guy. Like we didn't have warning signs at that point.
And then when we'd only been dating about three or
four months, he said, and he was living in a
neighboring town. I forgot that part. He was living in
a neighboring town. So he was coming in every every
weekend to visit, and we, you know, we were eventually
(13:11):
then becoming intimate and just getting to know each other
better and better. And then he he messaged me and said, oh,
I have to talk to you right away, and so
we talked on the phone, and he said that he
had lost his job. It was unexpected. He worked high
up in construction and management, like site supervisor type type thing.
(13:34):
And and so he asked if he could move in
with me, because he wanted to leave that town and
move to the town where I was so he could
be with me. And I was uncomfortable with that, for sure.
I felt like that was too fast. I was not
interested in that. But he mentioned what a hardship it
would be for him to, you know, have to stay there,
keep driving back and forth, just applying, you know, the pressure,
(13:58):
and so I agreed, and so he so he moved in.
I was living with my daughter at the time, she
was maybe eighteen or nineteen, and so it was a
small place, this small, grimy basement suite that we're living in.
So he moved in, and then it was nice to
have his added income into our situation. So then we
(14:21):
were able to start looking for another another place. And
it was pretty easy having him there, like he was
easy to get along with. But one red flag that
came up as soon as he moved in whenever he
would go to call his wife, which he told me
they were separated. They'd been separated for years, you know,
(14:44):
divorce was supposed to be forthcoming. Whenever he was going
to call her, he would leave and I said, why
are you leaving? Talk to her here? And he'd say, oh, no,
she makes me so mad. She pushes all my buttons.
And I don't want you to hear me yelling at her.
And I was like, and I prefer you made the
(15:07):
call here. I'm not going to listen in. But then so.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
I think his behavior about his ex should have been
our biggest flag. Oh yomen women here, men here. When
when exes disrespect the other ex like tremendously like that,
that's a big that's.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
A big yeah. And so he said he didn't particularly
talk poorly about her, but he did say that she
would push his buttons and he would lose his temper.
And he never lost his temper around me or with
my with my daughter. There was there was one time
when we were dating before he moved in, when he
(15:46):
still lived in the other place in the other town,
and I went to visit him out there, and he's
taking me for a drive through the country. I don't know,
and I think I felt he was speeding or something
was going on and it made me feel a little
bit unsafe, and I asked him would he please slowed down,
and he really surprised me because he he mocked me
(16:07):
and he had never done that, and that was the
only time in the whole relationship he ever did that.
But he's like, oh, yeah, whining something like this, and
I thought that is bizarre because I'm not whining. So
I just tucked that one away, you know, didn't do
anything about it. Didn't listen to my intuition. So so anyway, yeah,
then he moves in and he's not anytime, he's going
(16:31):
to talk to his wife. He leaves, but then of
course he'd like he'd go to Tim Horton's and bring
back a coffee for me or something like that. He'd
always have a nice way of coming back into the
home after that. So we found another place in town
that was bigger, and in fact, my other daughter was
living in the basement suite, so we moved to the
(16:52):
upstairs suite of this place where my other daughter was renting.
And it was quite a nice arrangement and things seemed
to be going well. My heart was definitely healing, you know,
I wasn't looking backwards anymore and thinking about the previous
relationship that had left, you know, that was such a
train wreck, and so I felt like things were going well.
(17:15):
My family liked him, even my relatives from out of town,
you know, when they'd come over, he would meet them.
He got my mom a lovely Christmas present, and he
was just full of stories. So everyone thought he was great.
And he's showing me photos of his daughters. So they
don't live in the town he lived in. They were
several provinces away. They were half the country away in Ontario.
(17:37):
We're in British Columbia. So he's always showing me photos
of them. And I had said to him very specifically, well,
you must have told them or I want you to
make sure. This was after he first moved in. I said,
I don't want to be anybody's dirty secret. So you
make it plain that we're together, and I expect you
to be meeting with the divorce lawyer. That's the only
(18:00):
way this happened. Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's it's no problem,
no problem at all. And he would still he would
go back home to the other province about maybe once
every couple of months to see his kids, and because
one was, you know, a tween and then the other
(18:20):
we're in there later later teens, and I thought, okay,
I would want to be going back to see my
kids if I live far away. So I didn't think
anything about it, but one time I did make a
comment to him about I just want to make sure
that we both are on the same page with this relationship.
This is our relationship. We are not dating other people,
(18:43):
we are not seeing other people. And that means when
you're back in Ontario, your ex is your ex. And
he said, well, how do I know that you're not
getting back together? And I said, well, I'm not, and
I'm you know, I'm happy to I'll facilitate and introduction
if you want. You can check my phone whatever. I
(19:03):
have nothing to do with that with that person at all.
And he said, well, you know, I expect you to
trust me, give me that trust. Of course, I'm not
You're the one I want to be with. And yes,
the divorce is moving forward. So we're taking all sorts
of pictures of ourselves doing all these different traveling, different
activities and putting them on Facebook and everything. I wasn't
I wasn't hiding anything, And then in the end of
(19:27):
twenty nineteen, he says that he had a dream job
offer from a company back in Ontario and he'd really
like to take it, but he won't take it unless
I'm willing to move there. So that would mean leaving
one of my adult children behind, my elderly mother, you know,
(19:50):
my business, so I'd have to start everything over there.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
How long were you together at this point.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Year and a half maybe, and living together for a
substantial amount of time. Okay, yes, and I'm just trying
to I don't want to leave anything out. Yes, that's he.
Speaker 6 (20:12):
Because I keep I'm anticipating the other shoes going to
drop somewhere, So you'll need to have all the play
by play.
Speaker 5 (20:18):
We only have an hour to be together.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
What was the thing that turned it for you?
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Well, he said, you know, move move out there with me,
and so I said I would. I told my mom,
I told people online at that time, I was preparing
to host a big conference in twenty twenty, the first
of its kind in Vancouver in the spring, and so
I told him, all right, let's wait till I host
this big conference and then we'll move out there. And
(20:47):
so he's sending me photos of Oh, here's the apartments
I'm looking at. Here's one I found. I'm fixing it up.
He's sending me these photos. He's coming home still, but
like back to me, but not as often as I like.
And one or two times when I tried to get
a hold of him, he didn't answer, and so then
I'm emailing and I'm phoning, and I'm like, what is
(21:08):
going on here? But he always had a reason, always
had an excuse. And then twenty twenty comes and I
start hearing about this virus and it's like February and
I'm thinking, ooh, I hope it doesn't get any worse
because my conference is in April. And I emailed him,
said I'm worried about it. He said, oh, don't worry
about it. It's nothing. It's never going to get here.
(21:31):
But watching it. And then finally in March, I had
to either make my deposit or let the conference go,
and I decided, you know what, I'm so concerned about this.
I do not want to expose anybody to this. And
ticket sales had been wonderful because it was a first
of its kind event. He had set up my website.
(21:54):
He was very helpful. I didn't know anything about hosting
conferences or anything. He said, I've posted tons of com it. Says,
I'll set up the website for you, and I said, well,
I can't. I don't know how I can pay you
for that. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it.
Set up the website, set up the payment system. I
was so naive this was I wasn't in Zoom or
working with people online at this point, so I didn't
(22:16):
really know anything about it. So he sets all that up.
So I've sold all these tickets and it seems wonderful,
and then finally I pull the plug. So March seventh,
I emailed him and I said, I need to talk
to you. I've decided to postpone or cancel the conference,
and I'm really struggling emotionally with it. No answer, no answer.
(22:39):
The next day, I get an email from him on
March eighth, and he says, I can't, I can't do
this anymore. I have to be here for my children,
and I'm really sorry and too bad, and I am
once again totally blindsided. And now a few days later
(23:03):
I got a priority mail package and it was from
the landlord saying the rent had been late three times.
That's grounds for being kicked out in British Columbia. I
always gave him my push of the rent money. My
daughter and I gave it to him. He never told
me that he ever was late. So the landlord says,
(23:23):
you got to get out immediately. But by now it's
the COVID is here and people are dying, and people
are terrified and don't know what's going on. My daughter
that's living with me is severely immune compromised, and so
I said to the landlord, please, here's what's happened. Don't
kick me out. I have to find another place. And
(23:44):
I can't have Lookielus coming through potentially with my daughter,
it could kill her. So I had to go to
arbitration and get all this stuff. And in the meantime,
I started paying back people for the ticket money for
the conference. My name is on it, my integrity is
(24:04):
on the line. Of course, I'm going to refund people.
So I talked to another friend of mine that was
really helping me promote the conference, and she said, I
smell something rotten. I want us to start repaying the people.
Finish all the repayments as quick as we can. So
that's what we did. For the next two days, We're
(24:24):
just refunding, refunding, and then suddenly we can't take anymore.
We can't pay back any more money. And he emails
me and he says, you know, stop right now. This
isn't your money, this is my money. It was the
ticket money. It was the ticket money. So I've got
(24:45):
all these things going on at once. I'm like, oh
my god. I thought my life fell apart before, but
this is my life really really falling apart. And then
a couple of days later, I get a phone call
and it is his wife, his wife that he's still
married to, that he is not separated from, and she
(25:09):
tells me who she is and says that she's watched
our whole relationship online. I said, why didn't you reach
out to me? I would have reached out to you.
And a year and a half, she said, you're not
the first one that he's done this too. Oh, here
was another red flag. This was just around the time
(25:33):
he was moving in with me, first of all. And
I said, well, let's talk finances. I don't I don't
carry a lot of debt at all, and I only
have one credit card. He had a stack, a stack
of credit cards. I have never seen so many credit
cards in my life. And I said, what, what do
you need all those for? And he said, oh, that
(25:53):
just for all sorts of different things. And I and
I get them when i'm you know, opening new businesses,
for the construction all this kind of stuff. He had
an answer for everything. His wife tells me a bunch
of those cards he took out in her name that
he owes tens of thousands of dollars, and she says
(26:15):
to me, he cheated on you the whole time he
was with you. And I said what, and she said, yeah,
the whole time. Anytime he came back here, he was
with me. She said. He took me and my youngest
daughter on vacation to a tropical place, and he stayed
in the shape the whole time. So when he came
back to you, he wouldn't have suntan.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
And you wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
And so my mind is reeling as this person is
telling me this and he's not being forthcoming at all.
He's not answering my emails. It's just like you're going
one hundred miles an hour into a brick into a brick, wall,
and then his wife is just pouring salt in the wound.
She took some kind of weird pleasure I think in this,
(27:02):
and so it was really hard to It was hard
to understand, and I'm trying to explain to my family
what's going on, and explain to my to my supporters,
the people who had bought the tickets, and so I'm
keeping very fastidious notes about who got fully reimbursed, who didn't,
(27:23):
who has told me I can just give them a
free ticket, you know, when I do the concert when
or the conference, whenever it happens. So trying to keep
track of all those things. And then I had to
try and find another place to live, and so that
also was very tricky. But so that was the end
(27:46):
of that relationship. Unfortunately, he had my business name, Divorcing Religion,
and he had the website. I wanted it all transferred
to me, obviously, and he made it very, very difficult.
It was just a lot of everything costs a lot
more money, and people were saying to me, go after him,
(28:07):
sue him, take him to court, because it was thousands
and thousands of dollars, and so I reached out to
a lawyer for a consultation, and they said, you know what,
it's just going to be small claims court because it
was it wasn't twenty five thousand. It might have been
like ten thousand or whatever. And I had to look
at the amount of energy that I had, like emotional
(28:31):
energy and physical stamina at that time, and I was like,
I can't I can't even do it. It's all I
can do to get out of bed every day and
just keep putting one foot in front of the other.
It was such a horrible time, so difficult. So I
didn't see him.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
I'm surprised that you couldn't sum for your domains back
for you know, the con all the information that he
literally stole from.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
You, He eventually gave them back. I would say it
took about maybe it took about six months of back
and forth eventually, you know, email type stuff. Yeah. So really,
when I'm looking back now, I'm like, oh my god,
(29:19):
there were so many red flags. But let me tell you,
a red flag looks like a normal flag. If you're
wearing rose colored glasses, you're gonna miss it's not gonna
look like a red flag. And every tiny little check
that I had that made me go ooh hmm, something's
not right. He would have a reason, he would have
an excuse that sounded viable. And he's an excellent liar,
(29:43):
just will lie to your face. Here's another one that
I that I left out. When he eventually got fired
from a job here. Then he took a job as
a doing construction stuff in an in another city a
few hours away, and so, uh, you know, I wasn't
thrilled with it, but oh well, he'd come back on
(30:04):
the weekends and stuff. And then he says, well, you
come out to me, come out to the worksite, and
you can stay in the hotel where I am and stuff.
And so I get there and we're in this little
ice cream shop and a woman comes up to him
and says soon and so what you then another girlfriend
and I said what? And he's like, oh, you're such
a kid or you're so funny. How like he's being
(30:25):
really snide and sarcastic to her, And I just thought,
what are we going for her to say? Interesting?
Speaker 4 (30:33):
So what do you think it was?
Speaker 5 (30:35):
That? It's so?
Speaker 4 (30:38):
It's I see your story. I can see how how
you can be blinded by some things. I can see
how he can pull the whole over your eyes with
the weaving of the lies. What do you think it
is that you looking back, would have you been in
a different headspace? So how how do you think you
(30:58):
could have handled some of these red flax?
Speaker 3 (31:01):
I think I could have been and might have been
less vulnerable if I was financially stable. I was still
trying to regroup myself after losing the previous relationship. So,
and this happens with women a lot. We are usually
not the ones that are making as much money as
(31:21):
men in the relationship, at least that is how it
has been through the seventies, eighties, nineties like that. So
I think that can add an element of desperation for women.
And of course, remember too, I'm still recovering from my
broken heart and here's someone who's funny and smart and engaging, engaging,
and they think I'm valuable and they want to spend
(31:44):
time with me. He was super encouraging about all my
business ideas. Boy, oh boy, was he supportive?
Speaker 4 (31:50):
I'm sure he was. How do you think it looking
at a relationship that is healthy in the normality of
getting to know each other and compliments and growing and
caring for each other, how do you see the difference.
Are there glowing differences that you can see between what
a sociopath or a con man who who pushes this
(32:14):
kind of agenda? How do you think you can say
the differences are for women or men to kind of compare.
I mean, because isn't there is there a bigger difference
between someone who's like, oh, I'm really supportive and oh
you're amazing and oh let's let's be together to somebody
who is genuinely saying I support you or I want
(32:34):
to be with you.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
I think it's it can be very hard to tell
because if you are an honest person, and this it's
honest people who get conned and get taken advantage of
because we you know, we're it's like a currency trust
that that's we're trustworthy, and we expect other people to
be trustworthy. And sometimes there is almost no way to
(32:59):
protect yourself if you're there are just some bad apples
out there that are hell bent on creating destruction, leaving
a trail of destruction in their wake, and they maybe
even get off on it, get some kind of pleasure
out of it. And so also another thing that might
have been helpful if he was local, if I could
(33:23):
meet other people that knew him, that would vouch for him.
I never got to talk to any of his daughters.
I could have insisted on that. Of course, he could
have put anybody on I guess, and said that they
were them. But I trusted him and believed him when
he said, yes, the divorce, I've met with the lawyer
(33:45):
a number of times, and it's going through. And here
here are photos of the apartment that I'm fixing up
for you. And so I said. When his wife called,
I said, was any of what he told me? And
I said, what about this and this and this? And
she said, oh, yeah, those those are true. Those are
(34:05):
you know, real things that actually happened, or real things
in his life. But she said his intention was to
move me and my daughter uh to Ontario, and so
he would have his cake and eat it too. So
then his his actual wife and family would be there
and we would be there. And I don't know, I
(34:26):
guess he just thought I wouldn't, I wouldn't clue into it.
I don't know. I hadn't, I han't glued in so far.
I so desperately wanted him to be a person of integrity,
and he was not.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Well, I think that a lot of us want what
we put, we project onto the people that we are
attracted to or want to be with what we want
them to be, rather than what they are. So did
he tell his wife that he was working in these
other towns and that's why he was gone for so long.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Yes, But she must have known more about what was
going on, because she said that she saw she saw
our photos, and she guessed that I must just be fine.
She said, well, I just figured that kind of woman
that's fine with them, with being with a married man.
So I mean, obviously she's got her own issues. And
(35:19):
because she said it's happened over and over again, I said,
why are you staying of this person? But my job
wasn't to care for her. My job was to care
for myself. And I think another thing that made me
vulnerable was having grown up in a very religious home
and having done so as a female and a patriarchal environment,
(35:43):
so submission to authority, obedience to authority. I saw my
mom bend over backwards for my dad to try and
make him happy and keep the peace, even though he
was not a mentally well person. She was my example
of how you deal with relationships. You know, you ignore
(36:06):
as much as you can possibly ignore. So some of
those things also, I think made me more vulnerable.
Speaker 6 (36:16):
So that can I say something because yeah, I you know,
I hear this story and I understand how painful it was.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
And at the same time, and this is not your story,
this is you know, you've triumphed over this. Now tell us.
Speaker 6 (36:31):
About how you bounced back, because you know we could
easily get, you know, caught up in the drama and
sympathize and this sucks.
Speaker 5 (36:40):
I hate you, I'm sorry.
Speaker 6 (36:42):
But what I'm really interested in is who you became
out of this and this experience and also your life
experience that had you write your book, because you wrote
this book, and I'm intrigued, So how how can you
share with us your resilience and power in the face
(37:04):
of this crappy experience? It sounds like it sucked, but
who cares?
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Now, I'm.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Thank you?
Speaker 5 (37:15):
And how yes transform yourself?
Speaker 3 (37:17):
I love it? And you used one of my favorite words, resilience,
And so I was extremely fortunate while I was going
through this, I had a friend in the United States
far away, like ten thousand miles away, and I knew
them through some of the religious trauma groups that I
(37:40):
was involved with. So we knew each other online and
we'd met once in person at a conference and just
had a very collegial, kind nice relationship. And he saw
what was going on. He had actually bought a ticket.
He was going to come all the way from Mississippi
to Vancouver for my smart.
Speaker 5 (37:58):
What was confidence about? By the way.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
The conference on Religious Trauma also called Court Cort. It
was Court twenty twenty that I was putting together, and
so he was one of the people I had to
contact and say I have to give you your money back.
And he'd bought a plane, a train ticket and everything,
and he said, I am so horrified by what you're
going through. He said, I will not take any money
(38:22):
back from you, you know, take my money and put
it towards being off your debt. I'm very concerned for you.
And if you need a friend to talk to, I'm here.
And he was as good as his word, and so
I would FaceTime him. I'd be ugly crying, I'd be
you know, yelling and swearing, and he was just like,
(38:44):
let it out. You gotta let it out better out
than in. And so he became such a good friend,
and this is part of resilience, is making sure we
have some people in our corner that we can depend on.
So he was a wonderful help. So I ended up
finding a place. My mom helped me with a down
payment on an older mobile home, and I was able
(39:07):
to move in, so my daughter and I safely moved
in there, and then I decided, you know what, I'm
well enough, feeling healthy enough. Now I'm going to transition
to an online conference. And I had never done that.
They were just all starting to happen then, and so
then I was able to do that, and that was
(39:28):
a success. And I kept talking with my gentleman friend,
and eventually he said, you know, if you ever are
ready to date again years in the future, I would
like you to consider me. And I already knew he
was a very a man of great integrity, and he
(39:51):
is twenty two years my senior. He's quite a bit older.
Both been married before. And I said, you know, I'll
really have to think about that because my heart has
been through so much. I don't know if I'm ready,
Because of course, twenty two years sooner, he could pass
away sooner. But we just kept talking and being friends
(40:11):
and then eventually he came out to visit, and my
business was taking off, my counseling business, which I transitioned
to online, and I continued educating myself about religious trauma
and became a religious trauma recovery coach. And then my
friend came out here and he met all my family
(40:32):
and he's so delightful, and he said, I never want
to rush you. I never want you to do anything
you don't want to do. And he said, if you'd
like to come to the United States, I'd love to
introduce you to my children. So that was the next thing,
and he took me all around the Southern States, where
I'd never been, so he was holding nothing back, he
was hiding nothing, and he said, I realize how important
(40:56):
transparency is for you. And then on one of those
trips he proposed to me, which was just a delight,
and then we were married later that year, and and
things have just kept going. We ended up being in
a documentary together, which which opened in Sweden, so we
(41:17):
flew out to Sweden and we were there for the
documentary about religious trauma. I've finished my book, and of
course he factors into my book, and my stories are
are in my book, the memoir portion including this. When
I just sharing this.
Speaker 6 (41:32):
We're forty two minutes into this, and now we get
the punchline.
Speaker 7 (41:36):
So this whole thing is backwards. You you have this triumph,
this huge opportunity. This is the story we're talking about.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
All we talked about the drama, Steve, so that other
people can be aware that it happens and that they
it is relatable. So people under stand, you know, that
things happen in that it's not always about you know,
these perfect dating experiences. We're here to teach people about
(42:11):
all these different types of dating experience so that we
could give them advice and help them through it and
know that they're not alone and recovery.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Recovery is possible. Recovery is as possible. My life now
looks so different from what it looked like then. And
if someone had said to me, just hang on, girl,
just hang on, you know something so much better than
you ever imagined.
Speaker 5 (42:38):
That an example of faith.
Speaker 6 (42:41):
Yeah, so I know that you're about divorcing religion, and
I'm not talking about religious faith, but faith.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
Just faith, you mean faith in humanity faith faith.
Speaker 4 (42:52):
There's a difference, there's a different possibilities in life, that
there's that there's faith that you're going to get what
you desire or deserve or want.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
You know, I'll tell you what I had faith in.
I had faith in myself because I had already been
through many horrible things which are in a memoir, and
I managed to get up. Every time, you know, fall
down seven times, stand up eight And sometimes life is
going to knock you down. You decide whether you're going
(43:23):
to get back up again. And each with each relationship
that ended in tragedy, I learned from it. I learned
from it, and I applied that to myself, and looking forward,
I thought, I'll never put up with this again. I'll
never put up with that again, watching for those red
flags instead of wearing the rose colored glasses. So saying
(43:46):
to him, why did your first marriage end? You know what?
And what's your relationship like with her now? And how
are you on speaking terms with your kids? Like asking
really uncomfortable questions that you need to be able to ask,
you should be able to asking a partner.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Well, you know, it doesn't take a weak person to
leave a religion, a very strong, powerful doing a lot
for that religious culture. It's not It does not take
a weak person to do that. So having the strength
to learn and grow through all the different dating traumas
(44:24):
you did to get to the place where you are now,
you know it's a journey, and you know we love
to know about people's journeys. Now, I do have a
couple of advice for the audience today as a takeaway
from Janesi's story and some advice from someone who has
also been through it. Is. The first is trust your gut.
(44:45):
If something fills off but you can't put your finger
on it, don't ignore it. Don't rush so so your
pass often try to accelerate intimacy, money decisions or life changes. Yes, verified,
don't believe. Double check the stories, work and finances. If
(45:05):
someone is defensive about transparency, that's a red fucking flag.
Look for consistency. Do their words match their actions over time?
Two more, build a support system common thrive common sorry,
conmin thrive in isolation, keep friends and family in the
(45:28):
loop about all your new relationships. And last but not
please know the patterns. So soopass often use charm, love bombing,
guilt victim stories to hook their target. So that's that's
always been my takeaway on that type of relationship, that
kind of thing so well.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
And you know, I when I was being honest with
people about what was going on, most of the people
were quite supportive, and you know, they fell they had
empathy for me. But I definitely heard from people saying, well,
what kind of counselor are you? You should have known better,
you should have seen the signs. And that was you know,
(46:10):
that was very painful. That made me really sad. I
felt like, oh, now people are thinking less of my skills.
But if anything, at this point, I go, I want
other people to learn from what I went through. I'm
just a person like any other person, and I had
blinders on because I wanted things to be a certain way.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
So it doesn't exempt you because you're a therapist. You know,
it doesn't exempt you.
Speaker 5 (46:38):
You're human. That was the one thing you thought you
wanted the most, that your deepest desire that had you
overlook everything.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Maybe stability because I had come out of a very
long marriage and because I was still you know, kind
of reeling from the previous relationship, so the stability, but
also that that desire for for someone to desire me,
And I think that's really that's a really common common thing.
Speaker 4 (47:13):
Yeah, I think the journey of healing should trump the
journey of finding a new person after.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
A relationship m.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
Relationship, because when you heal after a big, long lifetime
of being with somebody, and things change. Once you've started
that journey, your whole life changes, your whole perspective changes.
You're no longer a victim, You're no longer not worthy,
not good enough, not loved you. You get that from
(47:43):
other sources and from your friends and your family and yourself,
and then you start, once you've learned to heal, you
start finding better people for yourself, people who aren't advantage.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
Sometimes our blind spots are not exposed to us. We
can't see them until we get in a situation and
we're looking back with hindsight and we're like, oh, Okay,
I didn't know that I had codependent traits. Now I
know that. I didn't know that I was too dressing.
Now I know that. And so you get to tell
(48:15):
the story however you want to tell it, because there's
two there's two things. There's what actually happens, and then
there's the story we tell ourselves about what happened. So
I feel like my story is one of resiliency. Of
lessons learned, and I'm truly living a beautiful life. I
have a podcast, Divorcing Religion, podcast, my book, my YouTube channel.
(48:39):
I'm helping people. I'm working with people, hopefully leaving this
world a better place than I found it.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
I love it. Well, We're really grateful. I think I
think you do just that.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
Janice.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
Thank you, and we really appreciate you coming on today
and talking about your story and showing that you know,
just the normal, wonderful, average person can be sucked into drama,
trauma and bullshit and survive and make it so and
be a better person.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
To help others.
Speaker 4 (49:07):
I love that very much.
Speaker 3 (49:09):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (49:10):
Thank you for having me on, Thanks for being with us.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
We appreciate it. Thanks for being here again, Steve and
Jennis for being our amazing guests. All the listeners out there,
thank you for coming back each week. We'd love to
have you so, same time, same place next week, and
until then, let's just keep this shit real. If you
enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, like and
(49:34):
follow us on Instagram at fifty Shades.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
Of Underscore Bullshit and.
Speaker 4 (49:41):
Facebook at fifty Shades of Bullshit.
Speaker 3 (49:44):
Thanks so much
Speaker 2 (49:44):
For listening, and we really hope to see you again
next week.
The following show contains adult content. It's not our intent
to offend anyone, but we want to inform you that
if you are a child under the age of eighteen
or get offended easily, this next show may not be
for you. The content, opinions, and subject matter of these
shows are solely the choice of your show hosts and
their guests, and not those of the Entertainment Network or
any affiliated stations. Any comments or inquiry you should be
(00:21):
directed to those show hosts. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hey everyone, and welcome to Fifty Shades of Bullshit. I'm
your host, Christine Lalan and this is the podcast where
we uncover the truth about online dating.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Now let's begin.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Hey, I'm Christine and I'm Steve, and this is fifty
Shades of Bullshit.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Oh are you Steve?
Speaker 5 (00:50):
I'm good. How you doing. I'm good.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
It's so great to see your face again. It's been
a little bit.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
How did your reading go? Last week?
Speaker 6 (01:00):
Eating went well? Yes, we are rolling out this show,
this one man's show. We haven't talked about it on here,
but no we haven't.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
But I went just so the listeners know. I went
to Steve's I think it was what three three weeks ago,
three or four weeks ago that Yeah, I went to
your place and I was there for one of your
table readings for your One Man's show, and it was
quite and it left a deep impression on me.
Speaker 6 (01:30):
Tell me what what it brought up in your mind
and thoughts and heart.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
You know that I really can relate, and I think
a lot of our listeners, anybody listening, can relate to
the fact that a lot of us sim to long
for a place that we miss without really knowing what
that is. Like we long for this, but it's like
a homesickness for a place that we can't go back to,
(01:58):
or a place that we haven't found. And your story
of your life and your journey and hearing about your heartaches,
your heartbreaks, your joys, your passions told in stories that
are poignant and sweet and endearing and loving and funny,
and I just really enjoyed it. I was felt very
(02:22):
special to be able to be part of it and
meet your lovely friends. Your friends are amazing.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
I have friends.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I really enjoyed it. Everybody was
welcoming and sweet and I loved it.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
So yeah, thank you, thank you for the lovely reflection.
This is the first I guess time of actually somebody's
anybody's mentioned it publicly, so well.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
I've done it without your consent.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
Yeah, so I've been outed, but.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
You have, but no why I would say, you know,
let's shout it from the tops. It's going to be
an incredible show and I will be the first one
there on opening night.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
All right.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
I just love it.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I think it's amazing.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
I also, you know, think that we should talk further
about possibly filming it very cinematically, very you know, like
the lighting, the stuff that you're all talking about while
you were reading, and I think that we should at
least two you know, have something for you. Plus you
(03:30):
can always do something online with it, and you never know,
make a sizzle for your show, you know.
Speaker 7 (03:37):
For sure.
Speaker 6 (03:38):
I want to do a reel that I could present,
and let's see if we can start farming it out
to theaters around the country and get myself out there.
I know, still in the early stages though, we're still
doing what I call living.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
Room readings, and I don't know anyone with a living
room can host me.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
I will say though, that you should come in by place.
I'll get some people together. I think that you're a
lot further along than you think you are. I think
you're more hesitant, you know. But I think you just,
you know, fine, tune your pops buzzes and whistles and
(04:20):
slim them down for sure. I think that you want
to put too much in. I think it's all really
about you and not about the presentation of everything else.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
Yeah, everybody says keep it simple.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Mm hmmm. Yeah, but I think it's lovely and I
can't wait for you to actually see it in realization,
in real rural time.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
And yeah, it's happening.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
I love it. Well, good job.
Speaker 5 (04:46):
Thanks.
Speaker 6 (04:48):
Tell me about our guests, because I have not met
this guest.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
Shall we shall we?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Yeah? She actually came as a recommendation from Janice.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
Okay, what oh.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
I always go to say the names of her podcast,
and I never can remember them right when I go
to say them. So sex and the solo Girl I
think is one, and then the other ones about broken
hearts and breakups and moving on. But Jenna has referred
this guest to us, and let me tell you a
little about her before we bring her on. Her name
(05:22):
also is Janice Janice Selby. She's a counselor and author
of Divorcing Religion, who opens up about being deceived by
a sociopathic con man who stole both her heart and
her money. Jenna her background, religious upbringing and truth and
trust left her vulnerable, and how she turned her pain
(05:44):
into purpose. She now helps others heal through her podcast,
her book, and her private practice at divorcingreligion dot com.
Let's welcome Jennie Selby. She is going to tell us
all about her experience with how He's Heart Monday. Jennie,
(06:05):
Welcome to the show girl.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
How are from British Columbia. Good good. I'm happy to
join you both, and I can't wait till Steve brings
this show to Canada. I know, living room, We'll do it.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
I love it. Well. Welcome Janis. Thank you for being here.
Tell us a little about yourself beyond what.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I was saying in your interest. Sure. Yeah, So I
grew up in a very religious home, and so I
think I was primed to trust people. And I went
through most of my life actually till I got to
be about forty. And at that point that's when I
started deconstructing the views that I had been indoctrinated with
(06:46):
from my very well meaning parents, and then I ended
up divorcing my husband and my religion. So that's quite
a bit to go through all at once. And then
it was kind of like I'm out in the open.
I I'm going to have another teenage, like an adolescence
that I never had before. We're going to live it up,
We're going to do all these things. But there, you know,
(07:10):
there is some danger that can come with that when
we're we're not expecting it. I mean, I had only
been with my husband for almost twenty years. I had
never hadn't been dating anyone or looking at, you know,
for another relationship, and then to suddenly be rust into
the online world and I mean I'm getting unsolicited pictures
(07:34):
of male genitalia like it was just shocking because also
remember I had been quite religious too, so and here
I am on my dating profiles trying to be quite
honest about myself and expecting and thinking that the man
you're going to get to that are also going to
be honest. And I'm sure there are some out there,
but so yeah, it was it was challenging.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Well, I think it is very challenging for people who
have been in long term relationships and marriages throughout their
twenties and thirties and even you know, part of their forties,
and even some people into their fifties, and then all
of a sudden, you know, they find themselves not wanting
to be alone, wanting to find love and thinking, well,
(08:19):
everybody's talking about this online thing, and it seems to
be where everybody goes to find somebody, and it is
very frightening. It can be very overwhelming. And what we
try to strive here on this podcast to do is
to teach people about these pitfalls and how to protect
yourself and how love can be found out there. Just
(08:41):
it takes a little bit of trial and error and understanding.
So that's why we have you here today because I
know that you went full force into dating and you
met somebody. Please tell us about this.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I did well. The first fellow that I met and
I ended up moving in with and having a longer
term relationship with that was that felt amazing. So he
owned a high end luxury travel business and he had
lots of money. I was pretty much used to poverty,
(09:17):
So this being with this person really expanded me and
opened my eyes to a life that I didn't know
I could ever participate in. And I thought we had
a wonderful relationship. It was more of an open type relationship,
but we lived together. But then, shockingly to me, he
pulled the rug out from under me and he said, nope,
(09:39):
I've met somebody else, you know, move along. And so
then I was extremely broken heart. I just plunged into
the depths of grief. I was really like blinded by it.
I didn't see it coming. And so then I moved
from this high end luxury condo downtown, moved into this grimy,
(10:02):
illegal basement suite on the outskirts of town because that's
all I could afford. And my days and nights just
seemed to consist of weeping. And I've lost a ton
of weight only because I couldn't eat. I had no apputate.
It really was deeply depressed and saddened by it. And
(10:24):
so then I gave myself a few months where you know,
I wasn't going to look at anything online, wasn't interested.
I needed to try and rebuild myself. And then eventually
I decided, Okay, I'm gonna go back online and see
what other fish are out there. And this person showed
(10:46):
up in my feet and I think he had showed
up earlier at some point, but I hadn't. I had
just ignored him. But it was persistent, and he seemed
kind of funny, that kind of charming. There's a lot
of word. Remember, to charm is a verb, so he
seemed charming. He was older than the previous one, so
that he seemed more mature, and so he said he
(11:09):
would really like to meet up. And so I would
only go and meet people for the first time at
a pub, like in a very public place. I would
always buy my own meal. And then I remember I
found him quite engaging. He's a great storyteller. And then
when we were leaving, he asked if he could have
(11:30):
a kiss, and I said no, but I'll give you
a hug. And I gave him a hug. That's what
I was comfortable with. And then I went back to
my place. And then you know, he was messaging me
quite regularly from that time on. And I did find
he was a little bit pushier physically than I would
have liked, but I didn't. I didn't hold back on that.
(11:52):
You know, what do you think drew you into him?
Speaker 4 (11:55):
What made you really start to turn them?
Speaker 7 (11:59):
Right?
Speaker 4 (12:00):
I know because I've been in this type of relationship,
but I would like our listeners to hear how that
what happens in that.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Transition, right, Yeah, there's there can be such a vulnerability
when we are the dumpy rather than the dumper, feeling
like we are unlovable. Who would ever find us attractive
again or want to be with us? Especially? I mean,
once you're over forty, you become really super aware of
(12:29):
just not being as young as you once were, and
so that I think I was vulnerable in that way.
And he also was very likable. He told great stories,
and he seemed quite generous. Eventually I introduce him to
(12:50):
my family and they also thought that he was a
terrific guy. Like we didn't have warning signs at that point.
And then when we'd only been dating about three or
four months, he said, and he was living in a
neighboring town. I forgot that part. He was living in
a neighboring town. So he was coming in every every
weekend to visit, and we, you know, we were eventually
(13:11):
then becoming intimate and just getting to know each other
better and better. And then he he messaged me and said, oh,
I have to talk to you right away, and so
we talked on the phone, and he said that he
had lost his job. It was unexpected. He worked high
up in construction and management, like site supervisor type type thing.
(13:34):
And and so he asked if he could move in
with me, because he wanted to leave that town and
move to the town where I was so he could
be with me. And I was uncomfortable with that, for sure.
I felt like that was too fast. I was not
interested in that. But he mentioned what a hardship it
would be for him to, you know, have to stay there,
keep driving back and forth, just applying, you know, the pressure,
(13:58):
and so I agreed, and so he so he moved in.
I was living with my daughter at the time, she
was maybe eighteen or nineteen, and so it was a
small place, this small, grimy basement suite that we're living in.
So he moved in, and then it was nice to
have his added income into our situation. So then we
(14:21):
were able to start looking for another another place. And
it was pretty easy having him there, like he was
easy to get along with. But one red flag that
came up as soon as he moved in whenever he
would go to call his wife, which he told me
they were separated. They'd been separated for years, you know,
(14:44):
divorce was supposed to be forthcoming. Whenever he was going
to call her, he would leave and I said, why
are you leaving? Talk to her here? And he'd say, oh, no,
she makes me so mad. She pushes all my buttons.
And I don't want you to hear me yelling at her.
And I was like, and I prefer you made the
(15:07):
call here. I'm not going to listen in. But then so.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
I think his behavior about his ex should have been
our biggest flag. Oh yomen women here, men here. When
when exes disrespect the other ex like tremendously like that,
that's a big that's.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
A big yeah. And so he said he didn't particularly
talk poorly about her, but he did say that she
would push his buttons and he would lose his temper.
And he never lost his temper around me or with
my with my daughter. There was there was one time
when we were dating before he moved in, when he
(15:46):
still lived in the other place in the other town,
and I went to visit him out there, and he's
taking me for a drive through the country. I don't know,
and I think I felt he was speeding or something
was going on and it made me feel a little
bit unsafe, and I asked him would he please slowed down,
and he really surprised me because he he mocked me
(16:07):
and he had never done that, and that was the
only time in the whole relationship he ever did that.
But he's like, oh, yeah, whining something like this, and
I thought that is bizarre because I'm not whining. So
I just tucked that one away, you know, didn't do
anything about it. Didn't listen to my intuition. So so anyway, yeah,
then he moves in and he's not anytime, he's going
(16:31):
to talk to his wife. He leaves, but then of
course he'd like he'd go to Tim Horton's and bring
back a coffee for me or something like that. He'd
always have a nice way of coming back into the
home after that. So we found another place in town
that was bigger, and in fact, my other daughter was
living in the basement suite, so we moved to the
(16:52):
upstairs suite of this place where my other daughter was renting.
And it was quite a nice arrangement and things seemed
to be going well. My heart was definitely healing, you know,
I wasn't looking backwards anymore and thinking about the previous
relationship that had left, you know, that was such a
train wreck, and so I felt like things were going well.
(17:15):
My family liked him, even my relatives from out of town,
you know, when they'd come over, he would meet them.
He got my mom a lovely Christmas present, and he
was just full of stories. So everyone thought he was great.
And he's showing me photos of his daughters. So they
don't live in the town he lived in. They were
several provinces away. They were half the country away in Ontario.
(17:37):
We're in British Columbia. So he's always showing me photos
of them. And I had said to him very specifically, well,
you must have told them or I want you to
make sure. This was after he first moved in. I said,
I don't want to be anybody's dirty secret. So you
make it plain that we're together, and I expect you
to be meeting with the divorce lawyer. That's the only
(18:00):
way this happened. Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's it's no problem,
no problem at all. And he would still he would
go back home to the other province about maybe once
every couple of months to see his kids, and because
one was, you know, a tween and then the other
(18:20):
we're in there later later teens, and I thought, okay,
I would want to be going back to see my
kids if I live far away. So I didn't think
anything about it, but one time I did make a
comment to him about I just want to make sure
that we both are on the same page with this relationship.
This is our relationship. We are not dating other people,
(18:43):
we are not seeing other people. And that means when
you're back in Ontario, your ex is your ex. And
he said, well, how do I know that you're not
getting back together? And I said, well, I'm not, and
I'm you know, I'm happy to I'll facilitate and introduction
if you want. You can check my phone whatever. I
(19:03):
have nothing to do with that with that person at all.
And he said, well, you know, I expect you to
trust me, give me that trust. Of course, I'm not
You're the one I want to be with. And yes,
the divorce is moving forward. So we're taking all sorts
of pictures of ourselves doing all these different traveling, different
activities and putting them on Facebook and everything. I wasn't
I wasn't hiding anything, And then in the end of
(19:27):
twenty nineteen, he says that he had a dream job
offer from a company back in Ontario and he'd really
like to take it, but he won't take it unless
I'm willing to move there. So that would mean leaving
one of my adult children behind, my elderly mother, you know,
(19:50):
my business, so I'd have to start everything over there.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
How long were you together at this point.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Year and a half maybe, and living together for a
substantial amount of time. Okay, yes, and I'm just trying
to I don't want to leave anything out. Yes, that's he.
Speaker 6 (20:12):
Because I keep I'm anticipating the other shoes going to
drop somewhere, So you'll need to have all the play
by play.
Speaker 5 (20:18):
We only have an hour to be together.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
What was the thing that turned it for you?
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Well, he said, you know, move move out there with me,
and so I said I would. I told my mom,
I told people online at that time, I was preparing
to host a big conference in twenty twenty, the first
of its kind in Vancouver in the spring, and so
I told him, all right, let's wait till I host
this big conference and then we'll move out there. And
(20:47):
so he's sending me photos of Oh, here's the apartments
I'm looking at. Here's one I found. I'm fixing it up.
He's sending me these photos. He's coming home still, but
like back to me, but not as often as I like.
And one or two times when I tried to get
a hold of him, he didn't answer, and so then
I'm emailing and I'm phoning, and I'm like, what is
(21:08):
going on here? But he always had a reason, always
had an excuse. And then twenty twenty comes and I
start hearing about this virus and it's like February and
I'm thinking, ooh, I hope it doesn't get any worse
because my conference is in April. And I emailed him,
said I'm worried about it. He said, oh, don't worry
about it. It's nothing. It's never going to get here.
(21:31):
But watching it. And then finally in March, I had
to either make my deposit or let the conference go,
and I decided, you know what, I'm so concerned about this.
I do not want to expose anybody to this. And
ticket sales had been wonderful because it was a first
of its kind event. He had set up my website.
(21:54):
He was very helpful. I didn't know anything about hosting
conferences or anything. He said, I've posted tons of com it. Says,
I'll set up the website for you, and I said, well,
I can't. I don't know how I can pay you
for that. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it.
Set up the website, set up the payment system. I
was so naive this was I wasn't in Zoom or
working with people online at this point, so I didn't
(22:16):
really know anything about it. So he sets all that up.
So I've sold all these tickets and it seems wonderful,
and then finally I pull the plug. So March seventh,
I emailed him and I said, I need to talk
to you. I've decided to postpone or cancel the conference,
and I'm really struggling emotionally with it. No answer, no answer.
(22:39):
The next day, I get an email from him on
March eighth, and he says, I can't, I can't do
this anymore. I have to be here for my children,
and I'm really sorry and too bad, and I am
once again totally blindsided. And now a few days later
(23:03):
I got a priority mail package and it was from
the landlord saying the rent had been late three times.
That's grounds for being kicked out in British Columbia. I
always gave him my push of the rent money. My
daughter and I gave it to him. He never told
me that he ever was late. So the landlord says,
(23:23):
you got to get out immediately. But by now it's
the COVID is here and people are dying, and people
are terrified and don't know what's going on. My daughter
that's living with me is severely immune compromised, and so
I said to the landlord, please, here's what's happened. Don't
kick me out. I have to find another place. And
(23:44):
I can't have Lookielus coming through potentially with my daughter,
it could kill her. So I had to go to
arbitration and get all this stuff. And in the meantime,
I started paying back people for the ticket money for
the conference. My name is on it, my integrity is
(24:04):
on the line. Of course, I'm going to refund people.
So I talked to another friend of mine that was
really helping me promote the conference, and she said, I
smell something rotten. I want us to start repaying the people.
Finish all the repayments as quick as we can. So
that's what we did. For the next two days, We're
(24:24):
just refunding, refunding, and then suddenly we can't take anymore.
We can't pay back any more money. And he emails
me and he says, you know, stop right now. This
isn't your money, this is my money. It was the
ticket money. It was the ticket money. So I've got
(24:45):
all these things going on at once. I'm like, oh
my god. I thought my life fell apart before, but
this is my life really really falling apart. And then
a couple of days later, I get a phone call
and it is his wife, his wife that he's still
married to, that he is not separated from, and she
(25:09):
tells me who she is and says that she's watched
our whole relationship online. I said, why didn't you reach
out to me? I would have reached out to you.
And a year and a half, she said, you're not
the first one that he's done this too. Oh, here
was another red flag. This was just around the time
(25:33):
he was moving in with me, first of all. And
I said, well, let's talk finances. I don't I don't
carry a lot of debt at all, and I only
have one credit card. He had a stack, a stack
of credit cards. I have never seen so many credit
cards in my life. And I said, what, what do
you need all those for? And he said, oh, that
(25:53):
just for all sorts of different things. And I and
I get them when i'm you know, opening new businesses,
for the construction all this kind of stuff. He had
an answer for everything. His wife tells me a bunch
of those cards he took out in her name that
he owes tens of thousands of dollars, and she says
(26:15):
to me, he cheated on you the whole time he
was with you. And I said what, and she said, yeah,
the whole time. Anytime he came back here, he was
with me. She said. He took me and my youngest
daughter on vacation to a tropical place, and he stayed
in the shape the whole time. So when he came
back to you, he wouldn't have suntan.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
And you wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
And so my mind is reeling as this person is
telling me this and he's not being forthcoming at all.
He's not answering my emails. It's just like you're going
one hundred miles an hour into a brick into a brick, wall,
and then his wife is just pouring salt in the wound.
She took some kind of weird pleasure I think in this,
(27:02):
and so it was really hard to It was hard
to understand, and I'm trying to explain to my family
what's going on, and explain to my to my supporters,
the people who had bought the tickets, and so I'm
keeping very fastidious notes about who got fully reimbursed, who didn't,
(27:23):
who has told me I can just give them a
free ticket, you know, when I do the concert when
or the conference, whenever it happens. So trying to keep
track of all those things. And then I had to
try and find another place to live, and so that
also was very tricky. But so that was the end
(27:46):
of that relationship. Unfortunately, he had my business name, Divorcing Religion,
and he had the website. I wanted it all transferred
to me, obviously, and he made it very, very difficult.
It was just a lot of everything costs a lot
more money, and people were saying to me, go after him,
(28:07):
sue him, take him to court, because it was thousands
and thousands of dollars, and so I reached out to
a lawyer for a consultation, and they said, you know what,
it's just going to be small claims court because it
was it wasn't twenty five thousand. It might have been
like ten thousand or whatever. And I had to look
at the amount of energy that I had, like emotional
(28:31):
energy and physical stamina at that time, and I was like,
I can't I can't even do it. It's all I
can do to get out of bed every day and
just keep putting one foot in front of the other.
It was such a horrible time, so difficult. So I
didn't see him.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
I'm surprised that you couldn't sum for your domains back
for you know, the con all the information that he
literally stole from.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
You, He eventually gave them back. I would say it
took about maybe it took about six months of back
and forth eventually, you know, email type stuff. Yeah. So really,
when I'm looking back now, I'm like, oh my god,
(29:19):
there were so many red flags. But let me tell you,
a red flag looks like a normal flag. If you're
wearing rose colored glasses, you're gonna miss it's not gonna
look like a red flag. And every tiny little check
that I had that made me go ooh hmm, something's
not right. He would have a reason, he would have
an excuse that sounded viable. And he's an excellent liar,
(29:43):
just will lie to your face. Here's another one that
I that I left out. When he eventually got fired
from a job here. Then he took a job as
a doing construction stuff in an in another city a
few hours away, and so, uh, you know, I wasn't
thrilled with it, but oh well, he'd come back on
(30:04):
the weekends and stuff. And then he says, well, you
come out to me, come out to the worksite, and
you can stay in the hotel where I am and stuff.
And so I get there and we're in this little
ice cream shop and a woman comes up to him
and says soon and so what you then another girlfriend
and I said what? And he's like, oh, you're such
a kid or you're so funny. How like he's being
(30:25):
really snide and sarcastic to her, And I just thought,
what are we going for her to say? Interesting?
Speaker 4 (30:33):
So what do you think it was?
Speaker 5 (30:35):
That? It's so?
Speaker 4 (30:38):
It's I see your story. I can see how how
you can be blinded by some things. I can see
how he can pull the whole over your eyes with
the weaving of the lies. What do you think it
is that you looking back, would have you been in
a different headspace? So how how do you think you
(30:58):
could have handled some of these red flax?
Speaker 3 (31:01):
I think I could have been and might have been
less vulnerable if I was financially stable. I was still
trying to regroup myself after losing the previous relationship. So,
and this happens with women a lot. We are usually
not the ones that are making as much money as
(31:21):
men in the relationship, at least that is how it
has been through the seventies, eighties, nineties like that. So
I think that can add an element of desperation for women.
And of course, remember too, I'm still recovering from my
broken heart and here's someone who's funny and smart and engaging, engaging,
and they think I'm valuable and they want to spend
(31:44):
time with me. He was super encouraging about all my
business ideas. Boy, oh boy, was he supportive?
Speaker 4 (31:50):
I'm sure he was. How do you think it looking
at a relationship that is healthy in the normality of
getting to know each other and compliments and growing and
caring for each other, how do you see the difference.
Are there glowing differences that you can see between what
a sociopath or a con man who who pushes this
(32:14):
kind of agenda? How do you think you can say
the differences are for women or men to kind of compare.
I mean, because isn't there is there a bigger difference
between someone who's like, oh, I'm really supportive and oh
you're amazing and oh let's let's be together to somebody
who is genuinely saying I support you or I want
(32:34):
to be with you.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
I think it's it can be very hard to tell
because if you are an honest person, and this it's
honest people who get conned and get taken advantage of
because we you know, we're it's like a currency trust
that that's we're trustworthy, and we expect other people to
be trustworthy. And sometimes there is almost no way to
(32:59):
protect yourself if you're there are just some bad apples
out there that are hell bent on creating destruction, leaving
a trail of destruction in their wake, and they maybe
even get off on it, get some kind of pleasure
out of it. And so also another thing that might
have been helpful if he was local, if I could
(33:23):
meet other people that knew him, that would vouch for him.
I never got to talk to any of his daughters.
I could have insisted on that. Of course, he could
have put anybody on I guess, and said that they
were them. But I trusted him and believed him when
he said, yes, the divorce, I've met with the lawyer
(33:45):
a number of times, and it's going through. And here
here are photos of the apartment that I'm fixing up
for you. And so I said. When his wife called,
I said, was any of what he told me? And
I said, what about this and this and this? And
she said, oh, yeah, those those are true. Those are
(34:05):
you know, real things that actually happened, or real things
in his life. But she said his intention was to
move me and my daughter uh to Ontario, and so
he would have his cake and eat it too. So
then his his actual wife and family would be there
and we would be there. And I don't know, I
(34:26):
guess he just thought I wouldn't, I wouldn't clue into it.
I don't know. I hadn't, I han't glued in so far.
I so desperately wanted him to be a person of integrity,
and he was not.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Well, I think that a lot of us want what
we put, we project onto the people that we are
attracted to or want to be with what we want
them to be, rather than what they are. So did
he tell his wife that he was working in these
other towns and that's why he was gone for so long.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Yes, But she must have known more about what was
going on, because she said that she saw she saw
our photos, and she guessed that I must just be fine.
She said, well, I just figured that kind of woman
that's fine with them, with being with a married man.
So I mean, obviously she's got her own issues. And
(35:19):
because she said it's happened over and over again, I said,
why are you staying of this person? But my job
wasn't to care for her. My job was to care
for myself. And I think another thing that made me
vulnerable was having grown up in a very religious home
and having done so as a female and a patriarchal environment,
(35:43):
so submission to authority, obedience to authority. I saw my
mom bend over backwards for my dad to try and
make him happy and keep the peace, even though he
was not a mentally well person. She was my example
of how you deal with relationships. You know, you ignore
(36:06):
as much as you can possibly ignore. So some of
those things also, I think made me more vulnerable.
Speaker 6 (36:16):
So that can I say something because yeah, I you know,
I hear this story and I understand how painful it was.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
And at the same time, and this is not your story,
this is you know, you've triumphed over this. Now tell us.
Speaker 6 (36:31):
About how you bounced back, because you know we could
easily get, you know, caught up in the drama and
sympathize and this sucks.
Speaker 5 (36:40):
I hate you, I'm sorry.
Speaker 6 (36:42):
But what I'm really interested in is who you became
out of this and this experience and also your life
experience that had you write your book, because you wrote
this book, and I'm intrigued, So how how can you
share with us your resilience and power in the face
(37:04):
of this crappy experience? It sounds like it sucked, but
who cares?
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Now, I'm.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Thank you?
Speaker 5 (37:15):
And how yes transform yourself?
Speaker 3 (37:17):
I love it? And you used one of my favorite words, resilience,
And so I was extremely fortunate while I was going
through this, I had a friend in the United States
far away, like ten thousand miles away, and I knew
them through some of the religious trauma groups that I
(37:40):
was involved with. So we knew each other online and
we'd met once in person at a conference and just
had a very collegial, kind nice relationship. And he saw
what was going on. He had actually bought a ticket.
He was going to come all the way from Mississippi
to Vancouver for my smart.
Speaker 5 (37:58):
What was confidence about? By the way.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
The conference on Religious Trauma also called Court Cort. It
was Court twenty twenty that I was putting together, and
so he was one of the people I had to
contact and say I have to give you your money back.
And he'd bought a plane, a train ticket and everything,
and he said, I am so horrified by what you're
going through. He said, I will not take any money
(38:22):
back from you, you know, take my money and put
it towards being off your debt. I'm very concerned for you.
And if you need a friend to talk to, I'm here.
And he was as good as his word, and so
I would FaceTime him. I'd be ugly crying, I'd be
you know, yelling and swearing, and he was just like,
(38:44):
let it out. You gotta let it out better out
than in. And so he became such a good friend,
and this is part of resilience, is making sure we
have some people in our corner that we can depend on.
So he was a wonderful help. So I ended up
finding a place. My mom helped me with a down
payment on an older mobile home, and I was able
(39:07):
to move in, so my daughter and I safely moved
in there, and then I decided, you know what, I'm
well enough, feeling healthy enough. Now I'm going to transition
to an online conference. And I had never done that.
They were just all starting to happen then, and so
then I was able to do that, and that was
(39:28):
a success. And I kept talking with my gentleman friend,
and eventually he said, you know, if you ever are
ready to date again years in the future, I would
like you to consider me. And I already knew he
was a very a man of great integrity, and he
(39:51):
is twenty two years my senior. He's quite a bit older.
Both been married before. And I said, you know, I'll
really have to think about that because my heart has
been through so much. I don't know if I'm ready,
Because of course, twenty two years sooner, he could pass
away sooner. But we just kept talking and being friends
(40:11):
and then eventually he came out to visit, and my
business was taking off, my counseling business, which I transitioned
to online, and I continued educating myself about religious trauma
and became a religious trauma recovery coach. And then my
friend came out here and he met all my family
(40:32):
and he's so delightful, and he said, I never want
to rush you. I never want you to do anything
you don't want to do. And he said, if you'd
like to come to the United States, I'd love to
introduce you to my children. So that was the next thing,
and he took me all around the Southern States, where
I'd never been, so he was holding nothing back, he
was hiding nothing, and he said, I realize how important
(40:56):
transparency is for you. And then on one of those
trips he proposed to me, which was just a delight,
and then we were married later that year, and and
things have just kept going. We ended up being in
a documentary together, which which opened in Sweden, so we
(41:17):
flew out to Sweden and we were there for the
documentary about religious trauma. I've finished my book, and of
course he factors into my book, and my stories are
are in my book, the memoir portion including this. When
I just sharing this.
Speaker 6 (41:32):
We're forty two minutes into this, and now we get
the punchline.
Speaker 7 (41:36):
So this whole thing is backwards. You you have this triumph,
this huge opportunity. This is the story we're talking about.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
All we talked about the drama, Steve, so that other
people can be aware that it happens and that they
it is relatable. So people under stand, you know, that
things happen in that it's not always about you know,
these perfect dating experiences. We're here to teach people about
(42:11):
all these different types of dating experience so that we
could give them advice and help them through it and
know that they're not alone and recovery.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Recovery is possible. Recovery is as possible. My life now
looks so different from what it looked like then. And
if someone had said to me, just hang on, girl,
just hang on, you know something so much better than
you ever imagined.
Speaker 5 (42:38):
That an example of faith.
Speaker 6 (42:41):
Yeah, so I know that you're about divorcing religion, and
I'm not talking about religious faith, but faith.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
Just faith, you mean faith in humanity faith faith.
Speaker 4 (42:52):
There's a difference, there's a different possibilities in life, that
there's that there's faith that you're going to get what
you desire or deserve or want.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
You know, I'll tell you what I had faith in.
I had faith in myself because I had already been
through many horrible things which are in a memoir, and
I managed to get up. Every time, you know, fall
down seven times, stand up eight And sometimes life is
going to knock you down. You decide whether you're going
(43:23):
to get back up again. And each with each relationship
that ended in tragedy, I learned from it. I learned
from it, and I applied that to myself, and looking forward,
I thought, I'll never put up with this again. I'll
never put up with that again, watching for those red
flags instead of wearing the rose colored glasses. So saying
(43:46):
to him, why did your first marriage end? You know what?
And what's your relationship like with her now? And how
are you on speaking terms with your kids? Like asking
really uncomfortable questions that you need to be able to ask,
you should be able to asking a partner.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Well, you know, it doesn't take a weak person to
leave a religion, a very strong, powerful doing a lot
for that religious culture. It's not It does not take
a weak person to do that. So having the strength
to learn and grow through all the different dating traumas
(44:24):
you did to get to the place where you are now,
you know it's a journey, and you know we love
to know about people's journeys. Now, I do have a
couple of advice for the audience today as a takeaway
from Janesi's story and some advice from someone who has
also been through it. Is. The first is trust your gut.
(44:45):
If something fills off but you can't put your finger
on it, don't ignore it. Don't rush so so your
pass often try to accelerate intimacy, money decisions or life changes. Yes, verified,
don't believe. Double check the stories, work and finances. If
(45:05):
someone is defensive about transparency, that's a red fucking flag.
Look for consistency. Do their words match their actions over time?
Two more, build a support system common thrive common sorry,
conmin thrive in isolation, keep friends and family in the
(45:28):
loop about all your new relationships. And last but not
please know the patterns. So soopass often use charm, love bombing,
guilt victim stories to hook their target. So that's that's
always been my takeaway on that type of relationship, that
kind of thing so well.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
And you know, I when I was being honest with
people about what was going on, most of the people
were quite supportive, and you know, they fell they had
empathy for me. But I definitely heard from people saying, well,
what kind of counselor are you? You should have known better,
you should have seen the signs. And that was you know,
(46:10):
that was very painful. That made me really sad. I
felt like, oh, now people are thinking less of my skills.
But if anything, at this point, I go, I want
other people to learn from what I went through. I'm
just a person like any other person, and I had
blinders on because I wanted things to be a certain way.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
So it doesn't exempt you because you're a therapist. You know,
it doesn't exempt you.
Speaker 5 (46:38):
You're human. That was the one thing you thought you
wanted the most, that your deepest desire that had you
overlook everything.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Maybe stability because I had come out of a very
long marriage and because I was still you know, kind
of reeling from the previous relationship, so the stability, but
also that that desire for for someone to desire me,
And I think that's really that's a really common common thing.
Speaker 4 (47:13):
Yeah, I think the journey of healing should trump the
journey of finding a new person after.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
A relationship m.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
Relationship, because when you heal after a big, long lifetime
of being with somebody, and things change. Once you've started
that journey, your whole life changes, your whole perspective changes.
You're no longer a victim, You're no longer not worthy,
not good enough, not loved you. You get that from
(47:43):
other sources and from your friends and your family and yourself,
and then you start, once you've learned to heal, you
start finding better people for yourself, people who aren't advantage.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
Sometimes our blind spots are not exposed to us. We
can't see them until we get in a situation and
we're looking back with hindsight and we're like, oh, Okay,
I didn't know that I had codependent traits. Now I
know that. I didn't know that I was too dressing.
Now I know that. And so you get to tell
(48:15):
the story however you want to tell it, because there's
two there's two things. There's what actually happens, and then
there's the story we tell ourselves about what happened. So
I feel like my story is one of resiliency. Of
lessons learned, and I'm truly living a beautiful life. I
have a podcast, Divorcing Religion, podcast, my book, my YouTube channel.
(48:39):
I'm helping people. I'm working with people, hopefully leaving this
world a better place than I found it.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
I love it. Well, We're really grateful. I think I
think you do just that.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
Janice.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
Thank you, and we really appreciate you coming on today
and talking about your story and showing that you know,
just the normal, wonderful, average person can be sucked into drama,
trauma and bullshit and survive and make it so and
be a better person.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
To help others.
Speaker 4 (49:07):
I love that very much.
Speaker 3 (49:09):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (49:10):
Thank you for having me on, Thanks for being with us.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
We appreciate it. Thanks for being here again, Steve and
Jennis for being our amazing guests. All the listeners out there,
thank you for coming back each week. We'd love to
have you so, same time, same place next week, and
until then, let's just keep this shit real. If you
enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, like and
(49:34):
follow us on Instagram at fifty Shades.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
Of Underscore Bullshit and.
Speaker 4 (49:41):
Facebook at fifty Shades of Bullshit.
Speaker 3 (49:44):
Thanks so much
Speaker 2 (49:44):
For listening, and we really hope to see you again
next week.
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