September 4, 2025 • 48 mins
Join Christine and Jodi as we dive into the Tea App controversy—the dating app that promised safety for women but turned into a nightmare after millions of private photos, messages, and even IDs were leaked. We unpack how a tool meant to protect love and trust became a weapon of exposure, and what this means for finding love, setting boundaries, and protecting yourself in the digital dating world.
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Fifty Shades of Bullshit Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Fifty Shades of Bullshit is broadcast live Thursdays at 4PM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Fifty Shades of Bullshit TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Fifty Shades of Bullshit Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The following show contains adult content. It's not our intent
to offend anyone, but we want to inform you that
if you are a child under the age of eighteen
or get offended easily, this next show may not be
for you. The content, opinions, and subject matter of these
shows are solely the choice of your show hosts and
their guests, and not those of the Entertainment Network or
any affiliated stations. Any comments or inquiry you should be
(00:21):
directed to those show hosts. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hey everyone, and welcome to Fifty Shades of Bullshit. I'm
your host, Christine Lalan and this is the podcast where
we uncover the truth about online dating.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Now let's begin. Hey everybody, I'm Christine and I'm Jody,
and this is fifty Shades of Bullshit. Thanks for coming
back and being with us. Jody, how are you.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
I'm doing awesome and it's very great to see Christine.
These are a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
No, no, I love it. I love having you on
the show. Jody, You're a blast. Well, you're a fountain
of knowledge in your your I don't know. I I
like having a a male counterpart a lot because I
like the the male kind of you know, thoughts on
(01:18):
certain things, and I think that it brings a different
kind of dynamic to the show. You know, I'm I'm
a pretty bold, strong female, I don't know opinion on
this on this platform, and it's kind of nice to
have a guy with me, you know, bringing in his own,
you know, take on things, because you know, there's always
(01:41):
a different way or different angle to see things, and
I love it.
Speaker 5 (01:44):
I love bringing the male perspective. I think it's a
good balance also. And the other reason I like doing
this show is because I feel like we are we
reach people. I feel like there's people out there with
questions and curiosities, and even on the topic today, it's
much deeper, deeper than what it made look like on
the surface.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
There's a lot of uh.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Issues around you know, trust and safety and ethics and
all these things that are part of my coaching business
and things that are really important to me.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yeah, I love that, you know. I think that when
I first started this show, it's about to be four years.
We're a couple months shy of four years, and I
know the whole premise in the beginning was just to
tell wild dating stories and to talk about what it
was like to be out there in the dating world,
(02:32):
you know, and just be you know, fallacious. But then
I started realizing that it's not just about that. Yeah,
we share stories. Yeah, oh, Missy says the show.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
The show is fun, that's all.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Thank you, Missy. The show really kind of tried to
steer itself and I and I loved it. We started
really talking to people and professionals about, you know, how
to find love. And in that journey we were how
to find ourselves and which became more of a of
a idea that you know, finding yourself and falling in
(03:10):
love with you first became the premise of where to
go then for the rest of your life, you know,
falling in love with your job or your or your
work or or your spouse or your partner or someone new. So,
you know. And I love how the show is growing
and changing and the loyal amazing people who listen to
(03:33):
the show. It's it's unbelievable. If one person listens and
we make an impact, my day is full, my day
is great. I'm good.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
But to be very proud of yourself.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
And I say the same thing about any group that
are the men's group here that I run in Denver.
If just I don't care who comes. I don't promote,
I don't advertise. If it's right for you, come if
there's one. If there's one person that comes, and we get.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Mickey.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Micky just made a comment for those who who only
get to listen to the show. Mickey said, we get
to have fun, learn things and cut up listen and
interacting here, and that to me has always been the
most fun. I love it when I hate it when
we have to pre record because I always in the
(04:20):
back of my mind is like so disappointed because I
don't get to hear what everybody says. I don't get
to see the comments and interact with everybody. It's my
favorite part of the show. But you know, once in
a while we have to pre record, and you know,
it is what it is. But I love all the
interaction and the and the love we get. It's awesome me.
Speaker 5 (04:43):
Too, and I and you know, I'll be I'll be
looking at the comments today. I'd love to hear when
we get into the topic eventually, what people think about this.
This isn't so much of a question and answer episode,
but a think a thinking episode, and and there's a
lot of opinions out there. I mean, it is very
controversial and there's a lot of issues to dig into,
(05:04):
so I'm really looking forward to what the listeners and
viewers have to say about it.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yeah, me too. You were saying something about business coaching
right before the episode started. Yeah, oh my god, one
more thing, Anastasia says, Oh, for certain, this is a
highlight of the day.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
I just love that.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
My heart grows three four, five hundred sizes when you
guys like say things like that. It just makes me
very happy because really, honestly, all make people happy. Yeah,
I love it.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
So Yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
So I'm I'm a personal and a business coach, Christine,
and I work with people around emotional fluency, relationship dynamics,
and building more authentic connections in a world that I
think often teaches us to stay really guarded and that
that is true in life and in intimacy and in business,
and I.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I love that. Well, I might have to talk to
you about the business coaching side because I've been looking
into a couple of different business coaches for my cannabis business.
So maybe we can chat later about it.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Let's chat later about it.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Awesome. Well, I want to start out the show talking
telling you a little bit about what this episode is about.
And then I have the background, so I'd like to
read the background, and then Jody and I are going
to discuss this with you guys. So today we are
(06:39):
talking about the Tee app controversy. If y'all don't know
what the t app is, it is a dating advice
app for women only. So let me let me read
what this is. The women only app called Tea Dating Advice,
it called dating. It's a device. It went viral in
(07:03):
mid twenty twenty five, which is right now. It just
went viral in August. It was toted as a yelp
for men, intended as a whisper network to flag red
flag behaviors. In July through August twenty twenty five, it
suffered multiple data breaches, leaking user photos, messages, and personal information,
(07:28):
leading to ten class action lawsuits by early August. It
raises pressing questions about trust, privacy, accountability, and digital dating ethics,
all while navigating the tension between protecting oneself versus violating
someone else's privacy. Now, before I go into more about
the app, I just there is a I don't know
(07:50):
if you know about this Jodi. But there is a
web There is a group on Facebook all across the
nation called are We Dating the Same Guy?
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Right?
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Okay? And men have it are We Dating the Same Women?
And I like it because and I'm part of the
group here in LA and I've looked at other groups
around the country, and I like it because it allows
women to support women. For one, it's a safe place
(08:23):
to talk about what has happened to you on a
date or with a circumstance with a man or whatever, okay,
And it allows everybody to say, hey, I'm gonna get
to these and the second guys. Everybody's popping out today,
and I love it. So it basically is a place,
(08:45):
a safe place where women can talk about, you know,
their husband or boyfriend and their behavior lately and how
they think they might be on dating sites or dating
other women. And it allows other women to come on
and uh, yeah, I've been dating that guy for three
months or he told me he wasn't married, or you know,
(09:06):
things like this. And there was controversy about that for
a little while because one of the men. So what
happens is there's not always women looking out for women.
By the way, there are bitches out there who do
not care. They only want attention for themselves, and they
(09:27):
will see something for the guy and go run and
tell him, and that puts a lot of women in danger. Okay,
so let's this is kind of similar to that, and
I'm going to finish telling you about what happened with
the tea app data reach. So just a little background.
The app was launched in twenty twenty three by Sean
(09:49):
cook A. Tea Dating Advice is a women only app
that aim to help women vet potential dates if features
includes anonymous report like red flags or green flags, background checks,
AI powered catfish detection which is so important, and crowdsourced
(10:10):
insight on men. That's very similar to what we were
just saying. By July of twenty twenty five, t exposed
and exploded in popularity, becoming among the top free apps
in the US App Store with over four to five
million users, driven by TikTok and Instagram Buzz. The first
(10:32):
breach was leaked images on July twenty fifth, twenty twenty five.
Tractors exposed around seventy two thousand images, including thirteen thousand
selfies government IDs that were used for verification on the
app plus fifty nine thousand images from posts, comments, and
(10:54):
direct messages. The data originated from a legacy storage system.
Despite Tease policies stating verification ideas would be deleted promptly,
they did not delete them. They kept them. The second
breach was private messages exposed, so shortly after the first breach,
(11:14):
a more massive leak occurred, which was over one point
one million private messages, spanning through February of twenty twenty
three to July of twenty twenty five. These included conversations
about abortion, cheating, divorce, rape among the along with phone
numbers and meeting locations. We're not talking about phone numbers
(11:38):
and meeting locations for these men. We're talking about phone
numbers and locations of these women that were supposed to
be safe. So a security researcher, Azra Rajarde revealed the
flaw was in Tea's use of fire based storage, whose
misconfiguration enabled E see external access unlike ts otherwise secure
(12:04):
internal API. Now, the public fallout was massive. The leak
content was swiftly shared on forums like four chan or
four chain, whatever that is. I don't know what that is.
I didn't get a chance to look it up. It's
where users created a ranking game. They rank gamed these women,
(12:24):
and even interaction maps linking the women's images to their
locations for harassing purposes. That disclows my mind. Media experts
condemned how T, intended as a whisper network, became a
tool for surveillance, highlighting the fragile boundary between empowerment and explosure.
(12:51):
The legal institution response was done. By early August twenty
twenty five, at least ten class action lawsuits had been filed,
with five consolidated in federal court in San Francisco. Plaine
has included survivors of domestic violence and those who use
the app to warn others about the men that they
(13:12):
were dating. T issued statements saying that they took the
legacy system offline, involved third party cyber security experts and
are coordinating with the FBI offering identity protection to the
affected users.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
So this app was intended to create safety, but you
know when something's not thoughtfully designed, they're on these old,
old systems and architecture I think and create new kinds
of risk.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
So a woman uses this app.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
To warn other people about a toxic dating experience, but
her name and her messages. Over a million messages were
linked in the breach over two months this year, as
you pointed out, made her vulnerable to.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Retaliation, harassment, and legal threat.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
So I think what was meant to protect people and
well intended, ended up exposing these women, these user users,
to new types of harm. So I don't know kind
of wonder like what actually creates safety, And I'd be
curious what the listeners think about what, where, where it
does that safety really come from, or what does it
need to.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Come You know, it's crazy that I feel so emotionally
involved in this because I know what it's like to
be dating on apps here in LA and I can
tell you all the listeners have heard some of my crazy, wild,
scary stories. They're they're they're scary. And if there is
(14:41):
a place that a woman can go on and say, hey,
I just had a meeting a date with John Doe
and you know he did this, he did that, I
felt very uncomfortable. Just be aware. I think these things
are really important. I where you should be pret tecting
each other out there, and then we've got these circumstances
(15:03):
where you know someone is now being fiberable lead and
and threatened, and and and all they wanted to do
was talk about the fact that some dude raped them
on a date and to be aware of it. So
be careful. You know, if our society and our cops
and our our our courthouses are not going to protect
(15:23):
women from from domestic of you know, attack, or or
from raping or anything like that, then we got to
protect each other. And this is horrendous.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
I think the whole story hits on so many layers.
It's about dating, like you pointed out, it's about identity,
who we are, it's about privacy, gender protection, shame.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
But what's most interesting for me it's not just what the.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Appitter didn't do, but it's it's it's how it reflects
the way people are trying to protect them in dating today.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
It is wild out there.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
It is so crazy. I have a couple of victim quotes,
and then I have some comments from uh some left
wing Maile advocates on Reddit about this, which is bile.
It just any man in this world who can speak
this way just makes me sick. I want to read
(16:26):
two of the quotes here from some of the victims.
This is a plaintiff in the class action lawsuit. Her
name's Griselda Reyes, and I find her very brave with
keeping her name. The Washington Post Business Insider quotes her
to say, I now have anxiety and increased concerns for
(16:46):
the loss of privacy, as well as anxiety over the
impact of cyber criminals accessing, using, and selling my private information.
From another anonymous plaintiff, they call her Jane Doe. She
joined TEA to warn her community. She said, and this
is from Straight Arrow News. She lives in constant fear
(17:09):
that her exposed driver's license will be used for identity theft,
that her biometric data will be used to create deep
fakes or bypassed security systems, or worst of all, that
the man that she reported will find out she exposed
him on the app and seek retaliation. Wow, that that
is scary enough. Here's a couple of quotes from some assholes.
(17:33):
We're just going to phrase them that way because I
can come at me. I don't give a fuck. Men
who've never dated anyone are being labeled cheaters. Let's start
with that sentence. Men who've never dated anyone, like right,
are being labeled cheaters. Some are even falsely accused of
sexual assault or rape. I feel like this will be
(17:56):
ruining many men's mental health. I wonder if they care
about what it ruins in a woman's life when she's
assaulted or raped, or her husband cheats or her boyfriend cheats.
I don't know. Here's from change my view, this guy says. Listen,
I'm a man who completely understands why these apps are needed.
(18:19):
The problem is that women use them for slander or
melissia's gossip instead of safety. Excuse me, are we in
the same universe? Like, are we in the same fucking universe? Yeah?
Women are using this to falsely slander and malicious gossip
(18:40):
on purpose. What the fuck is wrong with these people?
Here's another one, my last one, because I can't stomach these.
These make me sick. The data breach is awful, but
the idea behind the app is disturbing too. An app
for women to secretly leave reviews of men. The fact
that it's called a safe place a safe space app
(19:02):
should have set off alarm bells everywhere. Men don't like
being exposed. That's that's just plain and simple. These also
are quotes from men who don't give a fuck about women.
Plain and simple, Lane and Sip so yeah, those are
a couple of quotes that I can find a lot
(19:23):
of women are not talking about it really as far
as you know, out in the public or or in
the news because they are about to start some of
these class action suits. So I get it they can't
really talk about it. But it's crazy that this wasn't
wider spread than you know. I'm just shocked I didn't
hear more about it. I don't know, Jody, did you
(19:46):
hear about this before this episode?
Speaker 4 (19:48):
I had not.
Speaker 5 (19:49):
Actually, you and I started talking about it, and I
was a little bit surprised to hear about.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
I'm I'm not. I'm not in the dating app world
at the moment.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
I have been, and I think this was a little
bit new or so I have not caught the wave,
had not caught the wave of it.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I want to read a couple of the messages that
our listeners are doing. Charles says, we never know what's
going to happen on here, so it's fun times. Thanks Charles.
Mickey says, it's always a good thing to catch the cheaters.
But Misty said, but what after they're busted? Does the
behavior stop? And rarely I don't know what about you
(20:29):
do you think that if a cheater, let's just just
talk about cheating. If a cheater cheats and he's busted,
do you think it's going to change his ways or
it's just just something that he just gets caught with.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
And I find, you know, cheating and betrayal is I
think really deep and complicated, and I think it happens
for so many reasons.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
That happens.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
You know, men betray women and women betray men as well,
and everything in between.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
And I think there's.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Different reasons why that happens. Are are they going to
change because they get caught?
Speaker 4 (21:02):
I don't know. I think that really depends. I mean,
I it depends.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
You know, betrayal can come from all different types of places.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
For some people, it's it's the thrill of it, you know.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
It is the thrill.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Yeah, definitely the thrill of it.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
A lot of betrayal comes from a place of pain
or unhealed trauma or something like that, seeking validation outside
of a primary relationship or something like that.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
So, I you know, is it going to change them?
Speaker 5 (21:30):
I'm sure there's instances out there where perhaps it does,
where it's kind of a wake up, a wake up
call for people and for others, they they might.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Revel in it.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
It might be it might be part of the thrill
of the whole of the whole betrayal. Yeah, it's most
try to find new ways to get not caught, like
kind of a criminal mentality, like Mickey said, I yeah,
maybe too, Like they may just batten down and find
a better way to do it next time.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Who knows exactly I'm learned about the female users on
the app and how they must grapple with great you know,
regret and shame and trust issues that they already have
with dating. And now there's this the healing after the
(22:16):
betrayal and the process of like reclaim reclaiming trust or
self agency. I yeah, even but then to also speak
about you know, gender tensions and dosing culture and revenge porn.
There's always revenge porn, and there's cyberbulling and the ethics
(22:37):
of the digital vigilanteism. And I'm not sure if I
said that right.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
But.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
But you know, it's like, if we're not looking out
for each other as women, we don't feel safe in
the dating world. Like if I earlier in my dating history,
when I first started online, I would say that I'm
about fifteen years into online dating that I've had experience with,
(23:10):
and there I have been raped by a date from
online dating. I have been stalked by another and it
was for frightening. I thought I was being abducted one
(23:31):
time from a date. It was the scariest thing. I
knocked the absolute fuck out of him and ran for
my life. So if I had had the opportunity to
go on something like this to say, you know, hey, girls,
I'm about to date this guy. Anybody have anything on him,
I would love insider information and I'd love to be
(23:55):
able to go back on and say, hey, this guy,
I went out with him, We just to be friends,
hanging out for a couple of months as friends. Then
I go on a real date with somebody else and
he comes over after and decides to rape me. Be
careful of him.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
You know.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I think that if we have these kind of tools,
I'm one hundred percent down for it. I don't see
anything wrong with a woman sharing information. Men can say
all they want that we're liars or we make this
shit up. I don't. I don't want to talk about abductions, rapes, stalking,
(24:37):
violence in any way, shape or form. If it hasn't
happened to me. I'm not going to make it up
and talk shit.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
No woman. Let me ask you this, Christine. I agree
with you. I think most of the time that's true.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
Do you think there's situations where a woman could weaponize
it and label.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
Some of the dangerous and actually, you know, better for them.
Maybe she really truly believes it. But that's, you know,
one side of the story. How do you you know?
Speaker 5 (25:01):
How do you how do you reconcile that where on
a platform where it's you're just kind of taking people's
word for it, there's no due process or anything.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Well, what actions are the other women taking. Let's let's
talk about that for a second. When let's just say
I just went on a date. This guy completely terrified
the shit out of me, and he did some crazy
ass things. So I go onto the app and I say, hey, listen,
(25:30):
I'm in LA. Here's this dude. I just had a
horrible experience. Take it for what you want to take
it for. So what's happening? Nothing? Nothing, nothing's happening. What's
happening is one I've been able to warn other women
just in case. Now, if he didn't do anything to me,
(25:51):
what is it going to do to him anyway? I mean,
even let's just say I am a liar. Let's say
I'm a liar and I go on and I decide
because this guy didn't like me, which this is the
dumbest scenario I've ever thought of. But let's just say
some dumbasque woman decides to go on and is like
pissed off at this dude or it's her ex, and
she says something who cares? Like, who cares? It doesn't
(26:16):
hurt anybody. It's not hurting anybody unless somebody else, you know,
goes out and starts slandering these people in public. They're
not slandering them in public, they're warning other women. Now,
I've had plenty of shit dates that I don't give
a shit about, and I would. I have never posted
(26:37):
on are we meeting this? Are we dating the same guy?
I never have because my circumstances happened way after I mean,
way before the web that that group even started. But
I just I just don't. But let's just see someone
does go on and slander somebody. I just don't see
where it is really hurting anybody unless they're out there
(27:02):
trying to you know, tell lies to like say a
wife or a girlfriend in public or a boss, uh,
you know, try to get you fired. That's a different story.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
So what if someone meets this man on a dating
app that someone told their version of the story, whether
or not it was true or not.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
And you know, we we we don't really know.
Speaker 5 (27:21):
So what happens if a man's on a dating app
and a woman meets this man but saw his name
come up on this app and she says, oh, this
man there was he was toxic, you know, he was
he trayed, he lied to me or whatever whatever the
situation was. And you know, and may and maybe there
are you know, three sides of that story.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
I you know, I that's I think that may interfere
with the with the dating process.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
They're a little bit but.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Good, good, good, that's how I feel. I think good.
If you're out there being a fuckery, then fuckery should
happen to you.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
Well, I'm talking about if there's someone out there not
being a fun and happens if we weren't there. And
using the example that you put it out where a
woman maybe they felt rejected or something like that and
they want to put the situation I'm talking.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah, well how bad can that be?
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Though?
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Let's just say that someone goes on and says, oh,
just says, this is a guy I dated and he
did this this, and women just don't match with him
on a daity site. What is that going to do
to him? Nothing? He won't find women somewhere. He will
men find women anywhere. And there are maybe say a
(28:39):
hundred women don't match with him from this site, there's
going to be thousands of women that do. And what
about those, you know, maybe the you know, I just
don't see it really hurting anybody. What I do see
is men getting butt hurt. I mean, egos are.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
You know, I'd be very surprised that.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Well, see, I don't see you doing shit me commit
to to have a woman go on. I'm gonna I'm
gonna explain something to a lot of people right now
who are under the misconception that all women talk shit
about men. We we don't. We we don't we talk
about what they do to us. But that's what they
(29:22):
do to us. It's an opinion, it's sharing, it's sharing
an opinion of facts. It let me let me let
me rephrase this. Uh as a woman who has been
sexually assaulted in many ways, many times many I rarely
(29:44):
talk about it unless it's for this show or for
somebody who says something happened to them, and I can say,
you're not alone. That's pretty much it. I don't run
around telling every Tom, Dick and Harry that some jackass
named so and so so did this to me. We
don't run around doing that. We don't even want to
(30:05):
go to the motherfucking police and report, because one we're
labeled psychos, We're labeled oh women, they just are, you know,
trying to hurt a man. We're labeled liars. We have
to prove when some things are not provable. But I
(30:27):
will tell you there are women out there that may
accuse somebody of something they didn't do, of course, but
there's all kinds of people who do that on a
daily basis, whether it be work or men with whatever.
But when we get down to it, I'm going to
tell you there's rarely a woman who is going to
(30:48):
go out and start talking about something that's this horrible
that happened to them if it didn't happen to them,
unless they're attention seekers. And that's exactly what they want.
But how many stories do you really hear of that?
Speaker 5 (31:02):
I think, I think you're you're you're right about a
lot of that, I think, or that's been my experience
as well. I think the majority of reports are true
and valid, and perhaps the vast majority of them are.
I have seen situations on both sides of it where
there there are you know, there have been false reports.
(31:22):
It can be really really damaging to a human being.
And I don't care if they're a man or a
woman or anything else. It can be really really damaging psychologically,
emotionally in just out in the world in real life
when it comes to you know, jobs and community and
that kind of thing can be really difficult, you know.
I I think a lot of people really grapple with
(31:45):
how to stay open and how to be vulnerable and
while also feeling safe. And I I think this is
a real case study for you know, what happens when
you know, tech tries to handle what maybe an emotional
or or relational challenge. And I think you know this
is if if if the tech's not working for us,
(32:07):
if the app's not working for if it's it's getting breached,
where do we where does this leave this, And in fact,
I want to ask you, Christine, would you having if
you know, hypothetically, with the breach, if that happened to
you and you were exposed and you're one of these women, one.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Of these victims uh in the class action lawsuit?
Speaker 5 (32:24):
Would you go back onto an app like that and
take that risk again?
Speaker 4 (32:29):
And then then where does it?
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (32:31):
So where does that? Where does that leave us for
a safe place to go?
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Not very far? I mean, you know, it's it's really
sad that we have to even have the original Facebook
groups and apps to try to protect each other if
there's not something to protect from. Do you do you
(32:57):
get where I'm coming from. It's like, why why aren't
we up and why aren't these men up in arms
about the fact that women even have to do this
much less bitch about how we're having to do it.
It's like they're they're coming at it on the on
the wrong side is well, it's my opinion that they're
(33:17):
coming on the wrong side. What I mean by the
wrong side is why aren't we fucking upset about the
fact that women have to protect themselves from men? Why
aren't we upset about that? Why are these men upset
about the fact that the women even started talking about men.
It's like, fucking weird. I don't understand how how someone
(33:42):
can go, oh, well, women are using these so it's
gonna be false advertisement. It's like, what the fuck you're there?
You're probably on the side.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Dude.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
The dude that said the problem is is that women
are using it and women are talking. That is a
dude that's on site, guarantee.
Speaker 5 (34:02):
Yeah, I think there's a lot of complexity to this.
I and you know.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
I don't you know, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
I don't know what the solution is, and I I'd
love to hear from from listeners. And I I thought
the very same thing you, Christiana. I thought about the
Facebook group that are we dating the same man? And
I think I've seen are we dating the same woman?
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Pop up?
Speaker 5 (34:21):
And those you know, I've I've scrolled through and I've
seen those on my feet, I think before and I've
I've popped in there and and that's.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Even I think less.
Speaker 5 (34:29):
Uh, that's kind of anyone can jump on there and
there's it's it's not very well, you know, curated or
anything or or better. And I'm not talking about the reports.
I'm just talking about the quality of the content of
the group. And so here's this company that the te app,
which I think I don't know if that was.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
The best name for them to choose.
Speaker 5 (34:50):
I when I we we we talked about dishing the
tea is usually gossip and I don't think that, you know,
that's what I don't think this is gossip.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
This is this people communicating with each other.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
It was started by a man, not a woman. Yep.
And he did it, which I think he did it
with good intent, using a I don't know what you
call a firewall or protection wall or cyber protection wall
that is flimsy and not known for not being protective.
(35:26):
I don't I can't imagine that he would do something
like that, you know, without thinking. I mean, if you're
going to build an app and you've got cyber protection
security that's protecting your own personal data and data that
is the app, but not the data of the women,
and then you save fucking ideas when you claim they're
(35:49):
going to be immediately disposed of what is what is that?
It's like, you know, I get, Look, we're all human beings,
we're all shitty fuckers, and we do things to each
other and nobody's perfect, and we all do all kinds
of shit, and everybody's got an opinion and all these things.
(36:11):
But in the end, why do we even have to
protect ourselves? And that's the sad part for me, and
I just don't understand how anybody can go after these
women who were just trying to be supportive of each
other and say, hey, there's a bad guy out there.
(36:31):
Nobody's out there protecting you. I'm going to warn you
because this guy did terrible things to me. I mean,
would I go out with somebody if I saw that
on one of those dating apps or one of those apps.
Absolutely not. But what if somebody didn't listen to the
(36:52):
advice and they did go on a date with that
same person and the same thing happened to them, or
nobody warned anybody, and these guys are haphazardly fucking up
these women's lives because they're doing things to them. I mean,
I don't know what do we do then?
Speaker 4 (37:11):
I think that's very scary to think about it. I
think with all.
Speaker 5 (37:14):
The users are on there, I don't know, I don't
know how many users the app, I don't know if
you came across that in your research. But I you know,
I think that that that is a lot of information
floating around out there, and statistically speaking, there's going to
be you know, you know, some some percentage, there's there's
gonna be I don't think it's some to look at
as as as black and white whether or not, I don't.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
I don't think know that it's a matter of are
they telling the truth or not?
Speaker 5 (37:39):
But I guess to kind of elevate and and kind
of zoom out a little bit and just to talk
about the the idea of trust versus surveillance. I think
the app validated a very deep need for digital safety,
as you're saying, Christine.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Yeah, to protect the data.
Speaker 5 (38:01):
And this place that was supposed to be safe was
completely exposed. And I think that that can be kind
of wielded in ways that really deepened vulnerability and not common.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
You know, I got some data for you. According to
the apps Developers and Wikipedia, TE had over four point
six million users as of twenty twenty five. ABC News
similarly reported that te reached over four million female users
and even had a waiting list of about nine hundred
(38:36):
thousand prospective users. On the lower end. Let's see, Yeah,
that's pretty much it. That's a lot of women who
are now afraid because they are personal information. Listen, there
are a lot of vindictive people out there. And when
(38:57):
you take a map and then you take all these
women's names, phone numbers, home addresses and start labeling them
on the apps for some psycho to go and do
whatever he wants, I don't. I don't know. I just
don't see how anybody can feel safe. Who was on
(39:20):
that app? That's four million women. I just I don't know.
That's that's a lot.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
And so where do we go for safety?
Speaker 3 (39:29):
That's a good question. Where do we go for safe?
You know, I would rather know if John Doe did
something to some women. Now listen, if say the app
had most of the time, most of the time, I'm
gonna I'm gonna talk about when I see some some
things coming through on are we dating the same guy?
(39:51):
You'll see one person post something and you'll see crickets.
Nobody has any responses, nobody's had any interaction, and we
take it as a grain AsSalt. You can decide whether
you want to go out with somebody or not. Who
matches this this guy? Okay, great, But when you've got
an overwhelming amount of women who come on and say, yep,
(40:12):
know that guy, Yep, oh that happened to me. Yep, oh,
that's that's true. That's that's this that's come on.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
It's like, I think that's a great point.
Speaker 5 (40:22):
And I don't know exactly how the app worked and
or if there's a function like that. The problem is
tech systems are built on anything is very very binary logic.
But real relationships and real interactions are complex. And maybe
that's the solution or something like that. As far as
I don't want to even want to say validating things,
(40:43):
I think I think one. I think I think a
report is valid, but understanding the potential severity of it
or something like that. You're the illustration of the Facebook
post where there's a lot of activity on it is
that's going to stand out as very much alarming, And
I don't know if it makes it more incredible but
(41:05):
more eminent. Perhaps you know, there's there's obviously something going
on there. If there's crickets on a post, we don't
really know, it could be the most dangerous person in
the world, or it may be you know, a victim
of slanders who know who really knows well?
Speaker 3 (41:21):
I have a great example. About five years ago, I
started dating and guy and we dated for I don't know,
six months. It wasn't like we saw each other every
week for six months. We went on dates a couple
times a month for six months, gotten to know each other. Yeah,
it wasn't quite who I wanted to continue a real
(41:42):
relationship with, for no reason other than he just it
wasn't there for me of thing that he wasn't telling me.
But I was like whatever, Well, I walked away from him,
and he's always stayed in contact with me, always kept
sending me messages, Hi, just think about you.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
You know.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
We parted his friends, I air quote friends. Fast forward
five years. It's five years now since I stopped dating him.
He still asks me out all the time, all the time,
reaches out once a month or more and says, hey,
how are you just want to check in with you
see if you have time to date, go out. I'd
(42:21):
love to see you again, blah blah blah. I always
put him off, always said nah, nah, whatever, And then
for a while I was you know, it'd say, oh
I'm dating somebody or whatever. About three or four months
ago I saw that he popped up on are we
dating the same guying uh huh, and I keep knocking
(42:43):
my computers so my screen keeps jumping all around. Okay,
So he popped up and they were saying with this
woman said he's married. He's doing this, he's doing that,
and I was like, oh snap, and several other I'm watching,
I'm looking other women are like, Yep, that's true, Yep,
(43:05):
that happened, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. And I was like,
that motherfucker, that's what it was. He was married. So
when he I didn't purposely reach out to him. But
the next time he reached out to me and I said, hey,
how's the marriage going.
Speaker 4 (43:20):
Yeah, and he's like.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
What what what?
Speaker 4 (43:24):
What?
Speaker 3 (43:25):
What? And I said, Uh, you're almost said his name.
It's a very unique name. And he may listen to
this podcast.
Speaker 5 (43:33):
Bring the point of if you should say his name
or not the same thing as is, how is that
different than saying his name inside of an app or
on a Facebook.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Post, Because on an app and inside the Facebook post,
it's only the women who are potentially able to date him.
It's not the entire world to know his name. They're
not going on public forums saying x Y and Z
did ABC to me. They're saying in a private setting
(44:06):
with other women, Hey, I want to try to protect you.
This guy is doing this. So when I said to him, hey,
how's the marriage, he said, how did you find out?
I said, actually I was at a party. I lied.
I said I was at a party because I want
to protect the women in this fight. It's not for me.
(44:28):
Part of the rules is to not go out and
talk about the site. It's like fight club. It's like,
don't talk about what's being said on it to the men.
So I said, actually, I was at a party and
I was talking to this woman and she was we
were talking about dating because she knows I have a podcast,
and she mentioned that she had just started dating somebody
(44:51):
and she said his name, and I said, you have
such a unique name that I thought maybe it might
be you. And I said, hey, I know somebody with
that name, and I said, do you have a picture
of him? And she pulled you up from the dating
site and I saw your picture. So yeah, and let's
just say you never called me again. It got him
(45:12):
to leave me the fuck alone after five years. But
do you see what I mean, It's like you don't
know what men are telling you, whether it's true or not.
And I don't think a lot of women are out
there maliciously trying to destroy men's lives.
Speaker 4 (45:29):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
I think they're out there trying to protect you.
Speaker 4 (45:33):
I agree.
Speaker 5 (45:34):
I think I think again it's it's I don't think
it's black and white. I think it's very gray. I
think there's men and women on both sides of the issue.
Speaker 4 (45:43):
Who are bad actors.
Speaker 5 (45:45):
I agree for the most part, and I think it
dare say it may be quite obvious to the you know,
listen the broader listening audience, that that is the intent,
you know, And I think so is there a point,
you know, where the app does potentially become damaging to
(46:06):
someone you know?
Speaker 4 (46:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (46:07):
I'd be really curious. I haven't the listeners have been
a little bit quiet. Be really curious if anyone's been
on the app or had any firsthand experience with it.
I've just heard about it recently. I have not a woman,
so I have not been on the app myself. I
really appreciate what you said. Now this the Facebook groups
are public, I can see them, and it's really interesting
(46:28):
to sell you right, no pop up sometimes the app
Like you said, you it's women only.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
You're not supposed to be able as a guy see
anything in the women's postings. Unless you are a woman
and applied to be into the group, you're not supposed
to be able to see them. The only people that
are supposed to see them are the people who are
actually the females who are vetted in the group. That's it.
(46:57):
But no, Mickey hasn't heard of it. I don't think
anybody else. I had not heard of it until I
was searching for something to do the show on today
and I was like, WHOA, Well, I'm so sorry. I'm
sure that Rebel is like freaking out. She has another
show to go do and we're out of time. Thanks
Jody for being here with me today. I appreciate your
(47:18):
chat time with me here. This is awesome.
Speaker 4 (47:20):
Yeah. I think it was a really important conversation to have.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
Yeah, yeah, me too. Thank you. Thanks to everybody who
came and shared and talked with us today, all the
people who listen and join us every week. We're very excited.
We're going to be back again next week. We're going
to have Paul and Steve back for another Our last
section of the psychedelics. We're going to talk about psychedelics
again next week. We're going to polish that up on
(47:45):
Act three and then nope, Bussy didn't know about it either.
That's good. So next week we're going to talk about
the psychedelics again, and then the week after that it
is our two hundred episode, so we will be with
a whole bunch of people from our guests and having
a party. So same time, the same place next week
(48:07):
and until then, let's just keep this shit real. If
you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, like
and follow us on Instagram at fifty Shades of Underscore
Bullshit and Facebook at fifty Shades of Bullshit.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Thanks so much for listening, and we really hope to
see you again next week
The following show contains adult content. It's not our intent
to offend anyone, but we want to inform you that
if you are a child under the age of eighteen
or get offended easily, this next show may not be
for you. The content, opinions, and subject matter of these
shows are solely the choice of your show hosts and
their guests, and not those of the Entertainment Network or
any affiliated stations. Any comments or inquiry you should be
(00:21):
directed to those show hosts. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hey everyone, and welcome to Fifty Shades of Bullshit. I'm
your host, Christine Lalan and this is the podcast where
we uncover the truth about online dating.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Now let's begin. Hey everybody, I'm Christine and I'm Jody,
and this is fifty Shades of Bullshit. Thanks for coming
back and being with us. Jody, how are you.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
I'm doing awesome and it's very great to see Christine.
These are a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
No, no, I love it. I love having you on
the show. Jody, You're a blast. Well, you're a fountain
of knowledge in your your I don't know. I I
like having a a male counterpart a lot because I
like the the male kind of you know, thoughts on
(01:18):
certain things, and I think that it brings a different
kind of dynamic to the show. You know, I'm I'm
a pretty bold, strong female, I don't know opinion on
this on this platform, and it's kind of nice to
have a guy with me, you know, bringing in his own,
you know, take on things, because you know, there's always
(01:41):
a different way or different angle to see things, and
I love it.
Speaker 5 (01:44):
I love bringing the male perspective. I think it's a
good balance also. And the other reason I like doing
this show is because I feel like we are we
reach people. I feel like there's people out there with
questions and curiosities, and even on the topic today, it's
much deeper, deeper than what it made look like on
the surface.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
There's a lot of uh.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Issues around you know, trust and safety and ethics and
all these things that are part of my coaching business
and things that are really important to me.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yeah, I love that, you know. I think that when
I first started this show, it's about to be four years.
We're a couple months shy of four years, and I
know the whole premise in the beginning was just to
tell wild dating stories and to talk about what it
was like to be out there in the dating world,
(02:32):
you know, and just be you know, fallacious. But then
I started realizing that it's not just about that. Yeah,
we share stories. Yeah, oh, Missy says the show.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
The show is fun, that's all.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Thank you, Missy. The show really kind of tried to
steer itself and I and I loved it. We started
really talking to people and professionals about, you know, how
to find love. And in that journey we were how
to find ourselves and which became more of a of
a idea that you know, finding yourself and falling in
(03:10):
love with you first became the premise of where to
go then for the rest of your life, you know,
falling in love with your job or your or your
work or or your spouse or your partner or someone new. So,
you know. And I love how the show is growing
and changing and the loyal amazing people who listen to
(03:33):
the show. It's it's unbelievable. If one person listens and
we make an impact, my day is full, my day
is great. I'm good.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
But to be very proud of yourself.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
And I say the same thing about any group that
are the men's group here that I run in Denver.
If just I don't care who comes. I don't promote,
I don't advertise. If it's right for you, come if
there's one. If there's one person that comes, and we get.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Mickey.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Micky just made a comment for those who who only
get to listen to the show. Mickey said, we get
to have fun, learn things and cut up listen and
interacting here, and that to me has always been the
most fun. I love it when I hate it when
we have to pre record because I always in the
(04:20):
back of my mind is like so disappointed because I
don't get to hear what everybody says. I don't get
to see the comments and interact with everybody. It's my
favorite part of the show. But you know, once in
a while we have to pre record, and you know,
it is what it is. But I love all the
interaction and the and the love we get. It's awesome me.
Speaker 5 (04:43):
Too, and I and you know, I'll be I'll be
looking at the comments today. I'd love to hear when
we get into the topic eventually, what people think about this.
This isn't so much of a question and answer episode,
but a think a thinking episode, and and there's a
lot of opinions out there. I mean, it is very
controversial and there's a lot of issues to dig into,
(05:04):
so I'm really looking forward to what the listeners and
viewers have to say about it.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yeah, me too. You were saying something about business coaching
right before the episode started. Yeah, oh my god, one
more thing, Anastasia says, Oh, for certain, this is a
highlight of the day.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
I just love that.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
My heart grows three four, five hundred sizes when you
guys like say things like that. It just makes me
very happy because really, honestly, all make people happy. Yeah,
I love it.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
So Yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
So I'm I'm a personal and a business coach, Christine,
and I work with people around emotional fluency, relationship dynamics,
and building more authentic connections in a world that I
think often teaches us to stay really guarded and that
that is true in life and in intimacy and in business,
and I.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I love that. Well, I might have to talk to
you about the business coaching side because I've been looking
into a couple of different business coaches for my cannabis business.
So maybe we can chat later about it.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Let's chat later about it.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Awesome. Well, I want to start out the show talking
telling you a little bit about what this episode is about.
And then I have the background, so I'd like to
read the background, and then Jody and I are going
to discuss this with you guys. So today we are
(06:39):
talking about the Tee app controversy. If y'all don't know
what the t app is, it is a dating advice
app for women only. So let me let me read
what this is. The women only app called Tea Dating Advice,
it called dating. It's a device. It went viral in
(07:03):
mid twenty twenty five, which is right now. It just
went viral in August. It was toted as a yelp
for men, intended as a whisper network to flag red
flag behaviors. In July through August twenty twenty five, it
suffered multiple data breaches, leaking user photos, messages, and personal information,
(07:28):
leading to ten class action lawsuits by early August. It
raises pressing questions about trust, privacy, accountability, and digital dating ethics,
all while navigating the tension between protecting oneself versus violating
someone else's privacy. Now, before I go into more about
the app, I just there is a I don't know
(07:50):
if you know about this Jodi. But there is a
web There is a group on Facebook all across the
nation called are We Dating the Same Guy?
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Right?
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Okay? And men have it are We Dating the Same Women?
And I like it because and I'm part of the
group here in LA and I've looked at other groups
around the country, and I like it because it allows
women to support women. For one, it's a safe place
(08:23):
to talk about what has happened to you on a
date or with a circumstance with a man or whatever, okay,
And it allows everybody to say, hey, I'm gonna get
to these and the second guys. Everybody's popping out today,
and I love it. So it basically is a place,
(08:45):
a safe place where women can talk about, you know,
their husband or boyfriend and their behavior lately and how
they think they might be on dating sites or dating
other women. And it allows other women to come on
and uh, yeah, I've been dating that guy for three
months or he told me he wasn't married, or you know,
(09:06):
things like this. And there was controversy about that for
a little while because one of the men. So what
happens is there's not always women looking out for women.
By the way, there are bitches out there who do
not care. They only want attention for themselves, and they
(09:27):
will see something for the guy and go run and
tell him, and that puts a lot of women in danger. Okay,
so let's this is kind of similar to that, and
I'm going to finish telling you about what happened with
the tea app data reach. So just a little background.
The app was launched in twenty twenty three by Sean
(09:49):
cook A. Tea Dating Advice is a women only app
that aim to help women vet potential dates if features
includes anonymous report like red flags or green flags, background checks,
AI powered catfish detection which is so important, and crowdsourced
(10:10):
insight on men. That's very similar to what we were
just saying. By July of twenty twenty five, t exposed
and exploded in popularity, becoming among the top free apps
in the US App Store with over four to five
million users, driven by TikTok and Instagram Buzz. The first
(10:32):
breach was leaked images on July twenty fifth, twenty twenty five.
Tractors exposed around seventy two thousand images, including thirteen thousand
selfies government IDs that were used for verification on the
app plus fifty nine thousand images from posts, comments, and
(10:54):
direct messages. The data originated from a legacy storage system.
Despite Tease policies stating verification ideas would be deleted promptly,
they did not delete them. They kept them. The second
breach was private messages exposed, so shortly after the first breach,
(11:14):
a more massive leak occurred, which was over one point
one million private messages, spanning through February of twenty twenty
three to July of twenty twenty five. These included conversations
about abortion, cheating, divorce, rape among the along with phone
numbers and meeting locations. We're not talking about phone numbers
(11:38):
and meeting locations for these men. We're talking about phone
numbers and locations of these women that were supposed to
be safe. So a security researcher, Azra Rajarde revealed the
flaw was in Tea's use of fire based storage, whose
misconfiguration enabled E see external access unlike ts otherwise secure
(12:04):
internal API. Now, the public fallout was massive. The leak
content was swiftly shared on forums like four chan or
four chain, whatever that is. I don't know what that is.
I didn't get a chance to look it up. It's
where users created a ranking game. They rank gamed these women,
(12:24):
and even interaction maps linking the women's images to their
locations for harassing purposes. That disclows my mind. Media experts
condemned how T, intended as a whisper network, became a
tool for surveillance, highlighting the fragile boundary between empowerment and explosure.
(12:51):
The legal institution response was done. By early August twenty
twenty five, at least ten class action lawsuits had been filed,
with five consolidated in federal court in San Francisco. Plaine
has included survivors of domestic violence and those who use
the app to warn others about the men that they
(13:12):
were dating. T issued statements saying that they took the
legacy system offline, involved third party cyber security experts and
are coordinating with the FBI offering identity protection to the
affected users.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
So this app was intended to create safety, but you
know when something's not thoughtfully designed, they're on these old,
old systems and architecture I think and create new kinds
of risk.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
So a woman uses this app.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
To warn other people about a toxic dating experience, but
her name and her messages. Over a million messages were
linked in the breach over two months this year, as
you pointed out, made her vulnerable to.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Retaliation, harassment, and legal threat.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
So I think what was meant to protect people and
well intended, ended up exposing these women, these user users,
to new types of harm. So I don't know kind
of wonder like what actually creates safety, And I'd be
curious what the listeners think about what, where, where it
does that safety really come from, or what does it
need to.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Come You know, it's crazy that I feel so emotionally
involved in this because I know what it's like to
be dating on apps here in LA and I can
tell you all the listeners have heard some of my crazy, wild,
scary stories. They're they're they're scary. And if there is
(14:41):
a place that a woman can go on and say, hey,
I just had a meeting a date with John Doe
and you know he did this, he did that, I
felt very uncomfortable. Just be aware. I think these things
are really important. I where you should be pret tecting
each other out there, and then we've got these circumstances
(15:03):
where you know someone is now being fiberable lead and
and threatened, and and and all they wanted to do
was talk about the fact that some dude raped them
on a date and to be aware of it. So
be careful. You know, if our society and our cops
and our our our courthouses are not going to protect
(15:23):
women from from domestic of you know, attack, or or
from raping or anything like that, then we got to
protect each other. And this is horrendous.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
I think the whole story hits on so many layers.
It's about dating, like you pointed out, it's about identity,
who we are, it's about privacy, gender protection, shame.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
But what's most interesting for me it's not just what the.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Appitter didn't do, but it's it's it's how it reflects
the way people are trying to protect them in dating today.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
It is wild out there.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
It is so crazy. I have a couple of victim quotes,
and then I have some comments from uh some left
wing Maile advocates on Reddit about this, which is bile.
It just any man in this world who can speak
this way just makes me sick. I want to read
(16:26):
two of the quotes here from some of the victims.
This is a plaintiff in the class action lawsuit. Her
name's Griselda Reyes, and I find her very brave with
keeping her name. The Washington Post Business Insider quotes her
to say, I now have anxiety and increased concerns for
(16:46):
the loss of privacy, as well as anxiety over the
impact of cyber criminals accessing, using, and selling my private information.
From another anonymous plaintiff, they call her Jane Doe. She
joined TEA to warn her community. She said, and this
is from Straight Arrow News. She lives in constant fear
(17:09):
that her exposed driver's license will be used for identity theft,
that her biometric data will be used to create deep
fakes or bypassed security systems, or worst of all, that
the man that she reported will find out she exposed
him on the app and seek retaliation. Wow, that that
is scary enough. Here's a couple of quotes from some assholes.
(17:33):
We're just going to phrase them that way because I
can come at me. I don't give a fuck. Men
who've never dated anyone are being labeled cheaters. Let's start
with that sentence. Men who've never dated anyone, like right,
are being labeled cheaters. Some are even falsely accused of
sexual assault or rape. I feel like this will be
(17:56):
ruining many men's mental health. I wonder if they care
about what it ruins in a woman's life when she's
assaulted or raped, or her husband cheats or her boyfriend cheats.
I don't know. Here's from change my view, this guy says. Listen,
I'm a man who completely understands why these apps are needed.
(18:19):
The problem is that women use them for slander or
melissia's gossip instead of safety. Excuse me, are we in
the same universe? Like, are we in the same fucking universe? Yeah?
Women are using this to falsely slander and malicious gossip
(18:40):
on purpose. What the fuck is wrong with these people?
Here's another one, my last one, because I can't stomach these.
These make me sick. The data breach is awful, but
the idea behind the app is disturbing too. An app
for women to secretly leave reviews of men. The fact
that it's called a safe place a safe space app
(19:02):
should have set off alarm bells everywhere. Men don't like
being exposed. That's that's just plain and simple. These also
are quotes from men who don't give a fuck about women.
Plain and simple, Lane and Sip so yeah, those are
a couple of quotes that I can find a lot
(19:23):
of women are not talking about it really as far
as you know, out in the public or or in
the news because they are about to start some of
these class action suits. So I get it they can't
really talk about it. But it's crazy that this wasn't
wider spread than you know. I'm just shocked I didn't
hear more about it. I don't know, Jody, did you
(19:46):
hear about this before this episode?
Speaker 4 (19:48):
I had not.
Speaker 5 (19:49):
Actually, you and I started talking about it, and I
was a little bit surprised to hear about.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
I'm I'm not. I'm not in the dating app world
at the moment.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
I have been, and I think this was a little
bit new or so I have not caught the wave,
had not caught the wave of it.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I want to read a couple of the messages that
our listeners are doing. Charles says, we never know what's
going to happen on here, so it's fun times. Thanks Charles.
Mickey says, it's always a good thing to catch the cheaters.
But Misty said, but what after they're busted? Does the
behavior stop? And rarely I don't know what about you
(20:29):
do you think that if a cheater, let's just just
talk about cheating. If a cheater cheats and he's busted,
do you think it's going to change his ways or
it's just just something that he just gets caught with.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
And I find, you know, cheating and betrayal is I
think really deep and complicated, and I think it happens
for so many reasons.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
That happens.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
You know, men betray women and women betray men as well,
and everything in between.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
And I think there's.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Different reasons why that happens. Are are they going to
change because they get caught?
Speaker 4 (21:02):
I don't know. I think that really depends. I mean,
I it depends.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
You know, betrayal can come from all different types of places.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
For some people, it's it's the thrill of it, you know.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
It is the thrill.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Yeah, definitely the thrill of it.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
A lot of betrayal comes from a place of pain
or unhealed trauma or something like that, seeking validation outside
of a primary relationship or something like that.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
So, I you know, is it going to change them?
Speaker 5 (21:30):
I'm sure there's instances out there where perhaps it does,
where it's kind of a wake up, a wake up
call for people and for others, they they might.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Revel in it.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
It might be it might be part of the thrill
of the whole of the whole betrayal. Yeah, it's most
try to find new ways to get not caught, like
kind of a criminal mentality, like Mickey said, I yeah,
maybe too, Like they may just batten down and find
a better way to do it next time.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Who knows exactly I'm learned about the female users on
the app and how they must grapple with great you know,
regret and shame and trust issues that they already have
with dating. And now there's this the healing after the
(22:16):
betrayal and the process of like reclaim reclaiming trust or
self agency. I yeah, even but then to also speak
about you know, gender tensions and dosing culture and revenge porn.
There's always revenge porn, and there's cyberbulling and the ethics
(22:37):
of the digital vigilanteism. And I'm not sure if I
said that right.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
But.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
But you know, it's like, if we're not looking out
for each other as women, we don't feel safe in
the dating world. Like if I earlier in my dating history,
when I first started online, I would say that I'm
about fifteen years into online dating that I've had experience with,
(23:10):
and there I have been raped by a date from
online dating. I have been stalked by another and it
was for frightening. I thought I was being abducted one
(23:31):
time from a date. It was the scariest thing. I
knocked the absolute fuck out of him and ran for
my life. So if I had had the opportunity to
go on something like this to say, you know, hey, girls,
I'm about to date this guy. Anybody have anything on him,
I would love insider information and I'd love to be
(23:55):
able to go back on and say, hey, this guy,
I went out with him, We just to be friends,
hanging out for a couple of months as friends. Then
I go on a real date with somebody else and
he comes over after and decides to rape me. Be
careful of him.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
You know.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I think that if we have these kind of tools,
I'm one hundred percent down for it. I don't see
anything wrong with a woman sharing information. Men can say
all they want that we're liars or we make this
shit up. I don't. I don't want to talk about abductions, rapes, stalking,
(24:37):
violence in any way, shape or form. If it hasn't
happened to me. I'm not going to make it up
and talk shit.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
No woman. Let me ask you this, Christine. I agree
with you. I think most of the time that's true.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
Do you think there's situations where a woman could weaponize
it and label.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
Some of the dangerous and actually, you know, better for them.
Maybe she really truly believes it. But that's, you know,
one side of the story. How do you you know?
Speaker 5 (25:01):
How do you how do you reconcile that where on
a platform where it's you're just kind of taking people's
word for it, there's no due process or anything.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Well, what actions are the other women taking. Let's let's
talk about that for a second. When let's just say
I just went on a date. This guy completely terrified
the shit out of me, and he did some crazy
ass things. So I go onto the app and I say, hey, listen,
(25:30):
I'm in LA. Here's this dude. I just had a
horrible experience. Take it for what you want to take
it for. So what's happening? Nothing? Nothing, nothing's happening. What's
happening is one I've been able to warn other women
just in case. Now, if he didn't do anything to me,
(25:51):
what is it going to do to him anyway? I mean,
even let's just say I am a liar. Let's say
I'm a liar and I go on and I decide
because this guy didn't like me, which this is the
dumbest scenario I've ever thought of. But let's just say
some dumbasque woman decides to go on and is like
pissed off at this dude or it's her ex, and
she says something who cares? Like, who cares? It doesn't
(26:16):
hurt anybody. It's not hurting anybody unless somebody else, you know,
goes out and starts slandering these people in public. They're
not slandering them in public, they're warning other women. Now,
I've had plenty of shit dates that I don't give
a shit about, and I would. I have never posted
(26:37):
on are we meeting this? Are we dating the same guy?
I never have because my circumstances happened way after I mean,
way before the web that that group even started. But
I just I just don't. But let's just see someone
does go on and slander somebody. I just don't see
where it is really hurting anybody unless they're out there
(27:02):
trying to you know, tell lies to like say a
wife or a girlfriend in public or a boss, uh,
you know, try to get you fired. That's a different story.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
So what if someone meets this man on a dating
app that someone told their version of the story, whether
or not it was true or not.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
And you know, we we we don't really know.
Speaker 5 (27:21):
So what happens if a man's on a dating app
and a woman meets this man but saw his name
come up on this app and she says, oh, this
man there was he was toxic, you know, he was
he trayed, he lied to me or whatever whatever the
situation was. And you know, and may and maybe there
are you know, three sides of that story.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
I you know, I that's I think that may interfere
with the with the dating process.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
They're a little bit but.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Good, good, good, that's how I feel. I think good.
If you're out there being a fuckery, then fuckery should
happen to you.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
Well, I'm talking about if there's someone out there not
being a fun and happens if we weren't there. And
using the example that you put it out where a
woman maybe they felt rejected or something like that and
they want to put the situation I'm talking.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah, well how bad can that be?
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Though?
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Let's just say that someone goes on and says, oh,
just says, this is a guy I dated and he
did this this, and women just don't match with him
on a daity site. What is that going to do
to him? Nothing? He won't find women somewhere. He will
men find women anywhere. And there are maybe say a
(28:39):
hundred women don't match with him from this site, there's
going to be thousands of women that do. And what
about those, you know, maybe the you know, I just
don't see it really hurting anybody. What I do see
is men getting butt hurt. I mean, egos are.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
You know, I'd be very surprised that.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Well, see, I don't see you doing shit me commit
to to have a woman go on. I'm gonna I'm
gonna explain something to a lot of people right now
who are under the misconception that all women talk shit
about men. We we don't. We we don't we talk
about what they do to us. But that's what they
(29:22):
do to us. It's an opinion, it's sharing, it's sharing
an opinion of facts. It let me let me let
me rephrase this. Uh as a woman who has been
sexually assaulted in many ways, many times many I rarely
(29:44):
talk about it unless it's for this show or for
somebody who says something happened to them, and I can say,
you're not alone. That's pretty much it. I don't run
around telling every Tom, Dick and Harry that some jackass
named so and so so did this to me. We
don't run around doing that. We don't even want to
(30:05):
go to the motherfucking police and report, because one we're
labeled psychos, We're labeled oh women, they just are, you know,
trying to hurt a man. We're labeled liars. We have
to prove when some things are not provable. But I
(30:27):
will tell you there are women out there that may
accuse somebody of something they didn't do, of course, but
there's all kinds of people who do that on a
daily basis, whether it be work or men with whatever.
But when we get down to it, I'm going to
tell you there's rarely a woman who is going to
(30:48):
go out and start talking about something that's this horrible
that happened to them if it didn't happen to them,
unless they're attention seekers. And that's exactly what they want.
But how many stories do you really hear of that?
Speaker 5 (31:02):
I think, I think you're you're you're right about a
lot of that, I think, or that's been my experience
as well. I think the majority of reports are true
and valid, and perhaps the vast majority of them are.
I have seen situations on both sides of it where
there there are you know, there have been false reports.
(31:22):
It can be really really damaging to a human being.
And I don't care if they're a man or a
woman or anything else. It can be really really damaging psychologically,
emotionally in just out in the world in real life
when it comes to you know, jobs and community and
that kind of thing can be really difficult, you know.
I I think a lot of people really grapple with
(31:45):
how to stay open and how to be vulnerable and
while also feeling safe. And I I think this is
a real case study for you know, what happens when
you know, tech tries to handle what maybe an emotional
or or relational challenge. And I think you know this
is if if if the tech's not working for us,
(32:07):
if the app's not working for if it's it's getting breached,
where do we where does this leave this, And in fact,
I want to ask you, Christine, would you having if
you know, hypothetically, with the breach, if that happened to
you and you were exposed and you're one of these women, one.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Of these victims uh in the class action lawsuit?
Speaker 5 (32:24):
Would you go back onto an app like that and
take that risk again?
Speaker 4 (32:29):
And then then where does it?
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (32:31):
So where does that? Where does that leave us for
a safe place to go?
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Not very far? I mean, you know, it's it's really
sad that we have to even have the original Facebook
groups and apps to try to protect each other if
there's not something to protect from. Do you do you
(32:57):
get where I'm coming from. It's like, why why aren't
we up and why aren't these men up in arms
about the fact that women even have to do this
much less bitch about how we're having to do it.
It's like they're they're coming at it on the on
the wrong side is well, it's my opinion that they're
(33:17):
coming on the wrong side. What I mean by the
wrong side is why aren't we fucking upset about the
fact that women have to protect themselves from men? Why
aren't we upset about that? Why are these men upset
about the fact that the women even started talking about men.
It's like, fucking weird. I don't understand how how someone
(33:42):
can go, oh, well, women are using these so it's
gonna be false advertisement. It's like, what the fuck you're there?
You're probably on the side.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Dude.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
The dude that said the problem is is that women
are using it and women are talking. That is a
dude that's on site, guarantee.
Speaker 5 (34:02):
Yeah, I think there's a lot of complexity to this.
I and you know.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
I don't you know, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
I don't know what the solution is, and I I'd
love to hear from from listeners. And I I thought
the very same thing you, Christiana. I thought about the
Facebook group that are we dating the same man? And
I think I've seen are we dating the same woman?
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Pop up?
Speaker 5 (34:21):
And those you know, I've I've scrolled through and I've
seen those on my feet, I think before and I've
I've popped in there and and that's.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Even I think less.
Speaker 5 (34:29):
Uh, that's kind of anyone can jump on there and
there's it's it's not very well, you know, curated or
anything or or better. And I'm not talking about the reports.
I'm just talking about the quality of the content of
the group. And so here's this company that the te app,
which I think I don't know if that was.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
The best name for them to choose.
Speaker 5 (34:50):
I when I we we we talked about dishing the
tea is usually gossip and I don't think that, you know,
that's what I don't think this is gossip.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
This is this people communicating with each other.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
It was started by a man, not a woman. Yep.
And he did it, which I think he did it
with good intent, using a I don't know what you
call a firewall or protection wall or cyber protection wall
that is flimsy and not known for not being protective.
(35:26):
I don't I can't imagine that he would do something
like that, you know, without thinking. I mean, if you're
going to build an app and you've got cyber protection
security that's protecting your own personal data and data that
is the app, but not the data of the women,
and then you save fucking ideas when you claim they're
(35:49):
going to be immediately disposed of what is what is that?
It's like, you know, I get, Look, we're all human beings,
we're all shitty fuckers, and we do things to each
other and nobody's perfect, and we all do all kinds
of shit, and everybody's got an opinion and all these things.
(36:11):
But in the end, why do we even have to
protect ourselves? And that's the sad part for me, and
I just don't understand how anybody can go after these
women who were just trying to be supportive of each
other and say, hey, there's a bad guy out there.
(36:31):
Nobody's out there protecting you. I'm going to warn you
because this guy did terrible things to me. I mean,
would I go out with somebody if I saw that
on one of those dating apps or one of those apps.
Absolutely not. But what if somebody didn't listen to the
(36:52):
advice and they did go on a date with that
same person and the same thing happened to them, or
nobody warned anybody, and these guys are haphazardly fucking up
these women's lives because they're doing things to them. I mean,
I don't know what do we do then?
Speaker 4 (37:11):
I think that's very scary to think about it. I
think with all.
Speaker 5 (37:14):
The users are on there, I don't know, I don't
know how many users the app, I don't know if
you came across that in your research. But I you know,
I think that that that is a lot of information
floating around out there, and statistically speaking, there's going to
be you know, you know, some some percentage, there's there's
gonna be I don't think it's some to look at
as as as black and white whether or not, I don't.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
I don't think know that it's a matter of are
they telling the truth or not?
Speaker 5 (37:39):
But I guess to kind of elevate and and kind
of zoom out a little bit and just to talk
about the the idea of trust versus surveillance. I think
the app validated a very deep need for digital safety,
as you're saying, Christine.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Yeah, to protect the data.
Speaker 5 (38:01):
And this place that was supposed to be safe was
completely exposed. And I think that that can be kind
of wielded in ways that really deepened vulnerability and not common.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
You know, I got some data for you. According to
the apps Developers and Wikipedia, TE had over four point
six million users as of twenty twenty five. ABC News
similarly reported that te reached over four million female users
and even had a waiting list of about nine hundred
(38:36):
thousand prospective users. On the lower end. Let's see, Yeah,
that's pretty much it. That's a lot of women who
are now afraid because they are personal information. Listen, there
are a lot of vindictive people out there. And when
(38:57):
you take a map and then you take all these
women's names, phone numbers, home addresses and start labeling them
on the apps for some psycho to go and do
whatever he wants, I don't. I don't know. I just
don't see how anybody can feel safe. Who was on
(39:20):
that app? That's four million women. I just I don't know.
That's that's a lot.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
And so where do we go for safety?
Speaker 3 (39:29):
That's a good question. Where do we go for safe?
You know, I would rather know if John Doe did
something to some women. Now listen, if say the app
had most of the time, most of the time, I'm
gonna I'm gonna talk about when I see some some
things coming through on are we dating the same guy?
(39:51):
You'll see one person post something and you'll see crickets.
Nobody has any responses, nobody's had any interaction, and we
take it as a grain AsSalt. You can decide whether
you want to go out with somebody or not. Who
matches this this guy? Okay, great, But when you've got
an overwhelming amount of women who come on and say, yep,
(40:12):
know that guy, Yep, oh that happened to me. Yep, oh,
that's that's true. That's that's this that's come on.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
It's like, I think that's a great point.
Speaker 5 (40:22):
And I don't know exactly how the app worked and
or if there's a function like that. The problem is
tech systems are built on anything is very very binary logic.
But real relationships and real interactions are complex. And maybe
that's the solution or something like that. As far as
I don't want to even want to say validating things,
(40:43):
I think I think one. I think I think a
report is valid, but understanding the potential severity of it
or something like that. You're the illustration of the Facebook
post where there's a lot of activity on it is
that's going to stand out as very much alarming, And
I don't know if it makes it more incredible but
(41:05):
more eminent. Perhaps you know, there's there's obviously something going
on there. If there's crickets on a post, we don't
really know, it could be the most dangerous person in
the world, or it may be you know, a victim
of slanders who know who really knows well?
Speaker 3 (41:21):
I have a great example. About five years ago, I
started dating and guy and we dated for I don't know,
six months. It wasn't like we saw each other every
week for six months. We went on dates a couple
times a month for six months, gotten to know each other. Yeah,
it wasn't quite who I wanted to continue a real
(41:42):
relationship with, for no reason other than he just it
wasn't there for me of thing that he wasn't telling me.
But I was like whatever, Well, I walked away from him,
and he's always stayed in contact with me, always kept
sending me messages, Hi, just think about you.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
You know.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
We parted his friends, I air quote friends. Fast forward
five years. It's five years now since I stopped dating him.
He still asks me out all the time, all the time,
reaches out once a month or more and says, hey,
how are you just want to check in with you
see if you have time to date, go out. I'd
(42:21):
love to see you again, blah blah blah. I always
put him off, always said nah, nah, whatever, And then
for a while I was you know, it'd say, oh
I'm dating somebody or whatever. About three or four months
ago I saw that he popped up on are we
dating the same guying uh huh, and I keep knocking
(42:43):
my computers so my screen keeps jumping all around. Okay,
So he popped up and they were saying with this
woman said he's married. He's doing this, he's doing that,
and I was like, oh snap, and several other I'm watching,
I'm looking other women are like, Yep, that's true, Yep,
(43:05):
that happened, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. And I was like,
that motherfucker, that's what it was. He was married. So
when he I didn't purposely reach out to him. But
the next time he reached out to me and I said, hey,
how's the marriage going.
Speaker 4 (43:20):
Yeah, and he's like.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
What what what?
Speaker 4 (43:24):
What?
Speaker 3 (43:25):
What? And I said, Uh, you're almost said his name.
It's a very unique name. And he may listen to
this podcast.
Speaker 5 (43:33):
Bring the point of if you should say his name
or not the same thing as is, how is that
different than saying his name inside of an app or
on a Facebook.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Post, Because on an app and inside the Facebook post,
it's only the women who are potentially able to date him.
It's not the entire world to know his name. They're
not going on public forums saying x Y and Z
did ABC to me. They're saying in a private setting
(44:06):
with other women, Hey, I want to try to protect you.
This guy is doing this. So when I said to him, hey,
how's the marriage, he said, how did you find out?
I said, actually I was at a party. I lied.
I said I was at a party because I want
to protect the women in this fight. It's not for me.
(44:28):
Part of the rules is to not go out and
talk about the site. It's like fight club. It's like,
don't talk about what's being said on it to the men.
So I said, actually, I was at a party and
I was talking to this woman and she was we
were talking about dating because she knows I have a podcast,
and she mentioned that she had just started dating somebody
(44:51):
and she said his name, and I said, you have
such a unique name that I thought maybe it might
be you. And I said, hey, I know somebody with
that name, and I said, do you have a picture
of him? And she pulled you up from the dating
site and I saw your picture. So yeah, and let's
just say you never called me again. It got him
(45:12):
to leave me the fuck alone after five years. But
do you see what I mean, It's like you don't
know what men are telling you, whether it's true or not.
And I don't think a lot of women are out
there maliciously trying to destroy men's lives.
Speaker 4 (45:29):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
I think they're out there trying to protect you.
Speaker 4 (45:33):
I agree.
Speaker 5 (45:34):
I think I think again it's it's I don't think
it's black and white. I think it's very gray. I
think there's men and women on both sides of the issue.
Speaker 4 (45:43):
Who are bad actors.
Speaker 5 (45:45):
I agree for the most part, and I think it
dare say it may be quite obvious to the you know,
listen the broader listening audience, that that is the intent,
you know, And I think so is there a point,
you know, where the app does potentially become damaging to
(46:06):
someone you know?
Speaker 4 (46:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (46:07):
I'd be really curious. I haven't the listeners have been
a little bit quiet. Be really curious if anyone's been
on the app or had any firsthand experience with it.
I've just heard about it recently. I have not a woman,
so I have not been on the app myself. I
really appreciate what you said. Now this the Facebook groups
are public, I can see them, and it's really interesting
(46:28):
to sell you right, no pop up sometimes the app
Like you said, you it's women only.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
You're not supposed to be able as a guy see
anything in the women's postings. Unless you are a woman
and applied to be into the group, you're not supposed
to be able to see them. The only people that
are supposed to see them are the people who are
actually the females who are vetted in the group. That's it.
(46:57):
But no, Mickey hasn't heard of it. I don't think
anybody else. I had not heard of it until I
was searching for something to do the show on today
and I was like, WHOA, Well, I'm so sorry. I'm
sure that Rebel is like freaking out. She has another
show to go do and we're out of time. Thanks
Jody for being here with me today. I appreciate your
(47:18):
chat time with me here. This is awesome.
Speaker 4 (47:20):
Yeah. I think it was a really important conversation to have.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
Yeah, yeah, me too. Thank you. Thanks to everybody who
came and shared and talked with us today, all the
people who listen and join us every week. We're very excited.
We're going to be back again next week. We're going
to have Paul and Steve back for another Our last
section of the psychedelics. We're going to talk about psychedelics
again next week. We're going to polish that up on
(47:45):
Act three and then nope, Bussy didn't know about it either.
That's good. So next week we're going to talk about
the psychedelics again, and then the week after that it
is our two hundred episode, so we will be with
a whole bunch of people from our guests and having
a party. So same time, the same place next week
(48:07):
and until then, let's just keep this shit real. If
you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, like
and follow us on Instagram at fifty Shades of Underscore
Bullshit and Facebook at fifty Shades of Bullshit.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Thanks so much for listening, and we really hope to
see you again next week
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