BPN w/ Daryl Carter, Chairman and CEO of Avanath Capital Management

Tune in to Greysteel's GreyCast podcast! CEO of Avanath Capital Management, Daryl Carter, joins us to share his experience in the debt and equity businesses. Listen as he discusses the challenges of starting a business in 1991 and 2008, and how the financial services industry has evolved. Discover how Avanath focuses on acquiring, rehabilitating, and preserving affordable housing, and even pursues ground-up development opportunities. Carter emphasizes the importance of building strong communities and debunking misconceptions about evictions in the multifamily business industry.
Don't miss this valuable conversation about entrepreneurship and long-term thinking.

Takeaways
-Starting a Business in Different Economic Landscapes
-Transforming the Financial Services Industry
-Revitalizing and Preserving Affordable Housing
-Avanath's Approach to Ground-Up Development
-Building Strong Communities: Avanath Capital's Key Focus
-Dispelling Myths: Evictions in Multifamily Business

Quotes
"Building communities is more important than just making profits. If you focus on building communities, the profits will come." - Daryl Carter
"The multifamily industry needs to improve its public perception and tell its story better. We need to focus on the good things we are doing in terms of housing safety instead of emphasizing the supply angle." - Daryl Carter

Featured in this Episode
Dayrl Carter
Chairman and CEO of Avanath Capital Management
https://www.avanath.com/team/daryl-j-carter/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daryl-j-carter-b18941116

Chapters
00:00 Introduction
06:41 Banking: Unconventional Path to Success
10:48 Pioneering Affordable Housing: Journey and Triumph
15:54 Evolution of Real Estate Business: Then and Now
31:12 Darryl Davis' Strategy for Affordable Housing Expansion
36:48 Addressing the Affordability Crisis: Role of Private Capital
39:36 Tackling High Turnover Rates in Real Estate
44:05 Innovative Solutions for Affordable Housing Crisis
49:38 Shifting Industry Messaging for Resident Prioritization
52:11 Housing Concerns Unite Congress Members

Produced by Heartcast media
http://www.heartcastmedia.com

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
These podcasts are presented by Gray Steeland Gray Steel's Black Professional Network. Gray
Steel is a national commercial brokerage withtwelve offices across the country and delivers its
clients integrated suite of capital event solutionstailored to the unique needs of each engagement
across asset types and geographies. GraySteel provides investment sales, capital markets,

(00:20):
and JV equity solutions for its clients. This podcast series is hosted and moderated
by the leaders of the Gray SteelBlack Professional Network. As we hear Grace,
Steel believe that a more representative culturecan drive impact and real business results.
To that end, the GBPN wasfounded to help drive retention internally and
hiring externally of diverse talent, whilealso providing institutional transactional services to diverse operators

(00:46):
that have historically been underrepresented in themarketplace. Each guest interviewed is an industry
leader and trailblazer in their own right. We hope that their stories can help
inform and drive impact and greater representationin our industry. Your host of the
podcast will be Aaron Edman, cofounder of the GBPN and leader of our
investment sales business in Baltimore. Marylandand surrounding metros. Nigel Crayton, co

(01:10):
founder of the GPN and senior teamleader of the Washington d C and mid
Atlantic investment sales businesses. Roman Sinclair, co founder of GBPN and team lead
for New York City Investment Sales andtc Cosmy co founder of GBPN and leader
of the National Structured Finance business.My name is Roman Sinclair. I'm a

(01:38):
senior associate at gray Steal focused onthe sale of investment properties in New York
City. Ari Feruzabadi is the founderand CEO of gray Steal and Daryl J.
Carter is the founder, chairman andCEO of A Banneth Capital Manager,
as well as a graysteeal client.Mister Carter is a forty two year veteran
of the commercial real estate industry,previously a chairman of the National Multi Family

(02:01):
Housing Council at MHC. Mister CarterAttendant MTS Graduate School of Management, MTS
Graduate School of Architecture, and Universityof Michigan or undergrad. Today he leads
a Baneth Capital Management, a realestate investment firm that acquires and operates multi
family apartments in the United States.Founded in two thousand and seven by mister

(02:25):
Carter. Abandonth focuses on transforming affordableand a workforce housing by improving the resident
experience, thereby reducing tenant attrition andgrowing rents and tenant satisfaction. Under mister
Carter's leadership, A Baneth has acquiredclose to four billion of real estate assets
since its inception. Today, ABanneth owns and manages approximately fifteen thousand apartments

(02:52):
across fifteen states. Well, goodmorning, guys. I'm glad you're able
to make the time today to hopin on another episode of the cast.
UM. Today, we'll uh doanother episode with the Black Professional Network.
UM and uh you know it's myself, Ari and darryl Um Daryl. We're

(03:12):
gonna have an intro piece coming inUM that will sort of introduce you formally.
But you know, while we're here, why don't we you know,
kick it off and you know,have have you tell us a bit about
yourself and and your your company?Well, Um, Roman and Ari,
thank you for having me on onyour podcast. UM. You know,

(03:34):
it's been a a a wonderful journeyfor me career wise. I'm originally from
Detroit and UM, I grew upon the west side of Detroit, the
son of an auto worker. Andand and uh, you know, UH
was very blessed to go to college. I played basketball in college. That
first got me, you know,to the University of Michigan, and then

(03:57):
uh, from there start, youknow, started in banking. I've always
had a fascination with buildings. Sowhen I as a kid, I you
know, I watching construction. Icould sit and watch a building be built
for hours, you know. Andso I've always had this fascination with construction
and later buildings, and and uhso it was I think it was my

(04:23):
calling to be in the commercial realestate business. And it's been I've worked
in the industry. Now this ismy forty second year, and people talk
about success. I said, yeah, forty two years, I'm an overnight
success. That's great. That's great. Um, and you know you're you.
You went into lending, I believeright away. Was that the first

(04:46):
the first job you had out ofcollege. It was in banking at Continental
Illinois Bank, which at the timewas the fifth largest bank in the country.
It was one of the early bankfailures in the mid eighties. Um,
but it was a great training ground, and you know, part of

(05:08):
what was special about that company wasI had a peer group of people in
the training program with me who endedup being quite successful in the industry,
people like David Nethercutt, who wasthe CEO of Equity Residential, and Mary
Ann King who is the president ofBirkadia, and and you know, so

(05:30):
there were just a lot of peoplewho were my peers who you know,
we were all very young in ourtwenties and uh start, you know,
starting out in an industry, andyou know it just you know, it's
the the value of people. Saywhat's the what's important of being successful in
the real estate industry? Number oneare relationships? And you know, and

(05:51):
I know they don't you know,there was you know, we used to
say having a great role at thedecks, but no one has roll at
DEXes anymore, which roman You probablydon't know what that is, but it
was where cards were put in ain a file. So now it's your
contact file on your Apple contact file. So I guess I should say,

(06:12):
you know, building your Apple contactfile, not your rolodex. But anyway,
those relationships are really important, andthat's probably the thing that that I
have valued so much in UM inthis business is not only the business relationships,
but the friendships that have been builtover many, many years. How'd
you, Darrell, you, how'dyou find your way in? What was

(06:35):
the you know, it's hard toget those types of opportunities. How'd you
find the opportunity? Well, I, you know, there was I had
a a someone who recruited at Iwas in graduate school and MIT and what
there was a gentleman who recruited me, and he convinced me and I wanted

(06:56):
to work I had I was tryingto you know, I was interviewing with
all the large development companies like uhprobably Hines back then, and a few
others, and a few of theinsurance companies. And he convinced me that
banking was a great place to start. And one reason was that, you
know, in banking, you know, and I really thought about this because,

(07:18):
you know, after I joined,you're very young. But generally the
people who come to the bank,because the money is so important, they
are always the principles of the company. You're not sending, you know,
the lowest level associate to the bankto borrow millions of dollars. It's always
the principles. So that's a greatplace for building relationships. I didn't realize

(07:41):
that at the time, but Ialso was very intrigued. I you know,
I grew up in Detroit. Iwanted to be kind of close to
my parents, and then I figuredChicago was a great place. So that's
where I first landed, and andyou know, it was a great experience.
I worked there for six years,fortunately or unfortunately, but they I

(08:01):
covered home builders and you know,we lent I lent money to large home
builders and master plan developers that buildhousing. And most of my clients were
in three locations. They were inFlorida, Arizona, and California. And
when you grow up in Detroit andyou live in Boston, you live in
Chicago, and you have an opportunityto go to warm weather. It was

(08:26):
only a matter of time that Iwas gonna. I didn't care which one
of those three places, but Iwas leaving Chicago to go to one of
those places. And I landed insouthern California. So that was after I
got exposed to warm weather. Idecided that that was my calling. So
I've been in California for a longtime, and you know, and very

(08:50):
pleased, but I still, youknow, have we do a lot of
business in Chicago, and I spendtime there, so you know, it's
still a very special place. That'sgreat. And so then it sounds like
it was real estate from the beginning. You were doing banking where your clients
were in real estate from the beginning. Yep, yep. So it was
always real estate. And learning thehome building business was really interesting. It's

(09:13):
helped me a lot on being inthe multifamily business. I mean a lot
of people don't realize that, youknow, they're you know, those businesses
are so tied together, and understandingboth of them is very important. And
I always look at I mean,they're housing alternatives, so it's you know,
so I think, you know,one thing that I've always encouraged,

(09:37):
you know, with with our acquisitionsteam is to understand you have to understand
what houses are selling for in neighborhoodsthat we're investing in because it has so
much of an impact on the valueand what people pay and rent and things
like that. So the you know, it's so that was a very good
grounding being involved in the home buildingbusiness. And and uh, you know,

(10:01):
and I think that when we lookat housing the day, there are
you know, like the whole growthof the single family rental business, and
there by the way, there's nota growth of that, it's just become
more institutionalized. You know. Oneof the things I was talking with Roman
about before we got on with youis, you know, I wanted to

(10:22):
ask you this question. It wascomfortable. One of my questions was,
you know, when I think ofyou or you know, maybe when you
think of yourself. I'll ask itdifferently, when you think of yourself,
you think of yourself as a realestate finance professional or a real estate professional
being that you, I think ofyou as a financier. Interestingly enough,
from my perspective, a capital allocator. They are different. You do both.

(10:45):
How do you view yourself? Well, you know, I always view
myself of doing whatever it takes toget something done. So you play many
roles. But you know, probablymore my career, I've I've gravitated to
the capital side of it. Imean, I've spent more time. I

(11:05):
mean I was a banker, thenwas worked at a large institution that was
a joint venture partner. And thenwhen I started my first company, Capre
Capital, we were in we hadan equity business, but we were more
of an alligate allocator to developers.But and we also had a big debt
business. We had a Fannie Maeand Freddie Mack and FHA multi family lending

(11:30):
business, and so you know,that's the perspective that I learned the business
from, and that's how I kindof became interested in the affordable housing space
because in our lending business with Fannyman Freddie Mack, we were one of
the largest seller servicers of affordable properties, you know, and including tax exempt

(11:56):
bonds and different things like that inthe affordable world. And when I would
go out and visit the affordable propertieswe had loans on, and while they
were very well secured with good sponsors, I was never pleased, and I
felt that the operations could have beena lot better. And there was a
little bit of a sense, well, hey, there's such a need for

(12:18):
affordable housing. You don't have togive people very much and they'll still stay
occupied, which is relatively true.But we felt that if you could really
bring a higher standard to that space, not only would you get, you
know, just very strong occupancy,but you get very minimal turnover and you

(12:39):
could have very attractive financial results asa result. Of it. So that
was the premise that I had.I wasn't candidly, I wasn't sure we
could do all of that. Andyou know that I was with one of
our investors and I'll shout out,and that's Prudential this earlier this week at

(13:00):
their headquarters, and you know,and they were one of they were in
our first fund. And if youever you're building a company, and whether
it's your first client, your firstinvestors, you know, they're very they're
they have a special place in avan of heaven because they were one of
our first investors that when we ourconcept was unproven and we had a great

(13:22):
story. But even as they madethe investment, I told them, you
know, now, sixteen years later, I wasn't sure we could do what
we could do, but I thoughtwe could. And sometimes that's half the
battle, is believing and maybe notsure, but at least trying and figuring
out as as you know, asyou the ignorance of an entrepreneur, you

(13:43):
have to be a little bit youhave to be a little you know.
I mean I I have a coupleof good friends who were very successful corporate
execs, and you know, partof one of their challenge. They like
to launch entrepreneurial things, and I'mlike, you're too smart. I mean,
you have to be subwhat naive,you know in nineteen ninety one,

(14:07):
where I was both naive and veryyou know when when my former partner and
I started our business in nineteen ninetyone and we were in our thirties,
and it was I thought that weknew maybe seventy percent of what we needed
to know to start a business,and we probably only knew about twenty percent.

(14:28):
And it's it's quite unnerving when youleave your safe job and realize,
my god, there's more that Idon't know than I know. But it's
like anything I mean, you know, it's if you have children. I
remember when my son was born,my first kid, and when when when
I you know, we got homethat night, I'm like, my god,

(14:50):
they have no idea what to do, and they let them, They
let us the hospital, let ustake them home. But it's like anything
you know with parents. I mean, in a very short period of time,
you start figuring things out, andyou know that you don't learn it
until you actually have the kid homeand like, okay, I gotta figure
this out. And that's the waybusinesses are at entrepreneurial things and in many

(15:13):
respects, sometimes even working in corporateAmerica in large companies or smaller companies or
other companies. It's when you startit yourself and have to build it.
It's you know, it's an experiencethat there's no you have to create it
as you go. There's joy andfailure, there's success and failure. You
know, I'm sorry, yes,absolutely absolutely. What was that like starting

(15:39):
a company? You know, andI think nineteen ninety one you said,
uh to pre capital with your partnerum. You know, in the nineties.
I think starting a company in anytime periods difficult, but in the
nineties, well, you know,it's it's a very interesting thing because I
talk, I think about it,you know. I mean, I've had

(16:00):
the ability because I sold we soldour largest part of that company we started
in nineteen ninety one. We startedthe largest We sold our our debt business
in two thousand and five to anaffiliate of the related companies, and then
I sold the in our equity business. I then sold my interest to my

(16:21):
former partner and we wanted to dosome different things, and then shortly thereafter
I started avanath Um. But youknow people from having done it at twice,
you know, nineteen ninety one,two thousand and eight, and you
say, what are the difference iswhat's easier and what is interesting? You
know, and we and getting maybeon the topic of some of the things

(16:47):
I know arey that you're you're doingwith this initiative with which I applaud you
on, you know, your programthat that that I'm speaking about in you
know, promoting um of black businessin black real estate executives and things like
that. You know, the theinteresting thing or the more the more interesting

(17:07):
question was it harder to start today in what two thousand and eight versus
today versus nineteen ninety one. Andmy perspective is, you know that the
challenges today, I mean maybe Idon't know in some respects it was easier
in the early nineties. And forone reason. And in nineteen ninety one,

(17:30):
or I think in nineteen ninety two, Capri we got our first allocation
of capital and it was from thestate of Connecticut and it was one hundred
million dollars and one hundred million dollarsin nineteen ninety two nineteen ninety three.
Relative to the fact that the largestprivate real estate investment firm probably had three
billion dollars of assets under management.And one of my current investors, a

(17:56):
gentleman by name of Doug Abbey UScompany which was amb which eventually became Prologists,
but you know, I remember Doug'scompany was and Doug became a mentor
for many years ago back then,and so his company was probably the biggest.
The bigger companies than three billion werethe insurance companies, but there were

(18:18):
a lot of companies between five hundredmillion and a billion, So at one
hundred million dollars a capital, youknow, the medium sized company was probably
seven or eight times our size.A company I looked today a van if
Our assets under management, it's aboutfour billion dollars. You know, Black

(18:41):
Blackstones b REAP is raising almost atone point three billion dollars a month.
So the scale of the businesses todaywhen you look at some of the large
investment firms, they're huge relative tostarting out today. And you know,
per Half and Ari I commend youbeing in a niche as well, where

(19:03):
there's been consolidation and you have thesebig, mega international companies and so having
to carve out a space as aniche player. It maybe harder today than
it was, you know, inthe early nineties. And that's beyond that
transcends race. It's just systematic ofwhat structures have happened in the commercial real

(19:25):
estate industry. I mean, youknow, they're I mean, certainly,
you know when I look at um, you know, Silicon Valley Bank and
you know, and and and realizethat they're the largest bank failure, and
I'm wait a minute, you know, and they're kind of a medium sized
bank. You know, Continental Bankwas the fifth largest bank in nineteen eighty

(19:47):
three or eighty four, and theywere thirty five billion until Silicon Valley Bank
is two hundred and seventy billion.And but it's just the world of consolidation
and um and that, and that'shappened throughout the financial services industry. So
you know, in many respects,there were certain you know, it may
have been easier to kind of breakinto the market, you know, whereas

(20:11):
today you know, and most largepeople, you know, like the large
pension funds and other investors. It'syou know, no one ever gets fired
allocating capital to JP Morgan. Imean, you know, you don't get
fired. You don't get fired hiringyou know, hiring IBM, right,
it was. That's the old adage, right right, exactly exactly. So

(20:33):
that's that's just the the the youknow, the challenge of today and you
know, you have to be muchmore creative. And I think the world
is a barbell in most situations whereon one side, the capital is going
to flow to these big international multiproduct investors that do from private equity and

(20:57):
the like, and then there's goingto be a portion that goes over to
the real category killers, the peoplewho have a particular expertise that people you
know want to get. You know, it's it's the category killer. I
mean, it's it's you know,the best buy or the home depot or

(21:18):
you know. But that's you know, so that's the thing that I see
that the market has really bifurcated.But again, there there are great opportunities
for new entrants into all the markets. I mean it's because ultimately, and
I think you know, the GraySeal story is exactly you know, showing

(21:40):
that someone can come in entrepreneurial verygood service can make an impact in the
believe you can do it. Yesand yeah, and you know it's built
around great people that you know andand PEP will become a major differentiator.

(22:02):
And that's the thing that you know, I I it takes a while to
learn that. And the quicker youlearn that, the more success you can
have as a as a business isbuilding the around with you. Definitely.
Um, I guess kind of afun question, you know, as we
get into some more the meat andpotatoes. Um you know, I read

(22:25):
that you went to you Michigan andas you played basketball there. Yep.
This is the first time in abouteight years that University of Michigan did not
make the March Madness Tournament. UMU. I went to Northwestern University, which
doesn't always make it. This isone of the years they made it,
but they did get But what adviceyou know, would you maybe have for

(22:47):
the Michigan coach for this year?Well? I just gave it, and
that is it's around people, andthe same thing with a basketball program.
It's about talent, you know.Uh, you know, have a great
talent makes you a better coach.You know. I think that it's so

(23:07):
fascinating, you know, college athleticswith this whole thing of name, image
and likeness and and um you know, I have a daughter who is in
the you know, she's being recruited, she's a basketball player, and she's
going through looking at all this andit's so different from you know, because
it was ages ago when when Idid it, and there's there's such major

(23:32):
dollars around college sports, and youknow, and and and ultimately you want
to build, you know, youwant to have a very you know,
clean program, meaning high reputation andwith very high character players. You know.
But the reality is that you know, there there we've created a lot

(23:53):
more optionality with transfers and things likethat. But you know, at the
end of the day, I thinkCoach Howard's doing a great job and has
to stay the course. I mean, it's very competitive out there. But
you know, I think that youknow, the the UH in many respects
you know, college athletics and andmedia that it mimics things in real estate.

(24:15):
There are you know, uh again, there's been a consolidation, but
there's opportunities for I mean, it'sso interesting that it's exactly you know,
in in in a way the factthat Florida Atlantic and all these teams made
the final four that we're unexpected,that tells you a lot about the success

(24:37):
of it. It's not always theblue bloods that get to the top hundred,
you know, I would I wouldadd one TOI but I have a
friend of mine who who built andsold a very He's very successful entrepreneur,
a very great operator. And oneof the things that he had has imparted,
I mean, is kind of stuckwith me. You know, there's
things that people say to you inlife that just kind of stick with you,
uh and and they ring in yourmind from time to time. And

(25:00):
it's it's that he runs his businessor he ran his business like a professional
sports team. You know. Hehe looks at it and says, I'm
I'm hiring the best talent. I'masking them to perform at the highest level,
and if they don't, I'm firingthem and I'm replacing them with amazing
talent. So it's it's, well, the other the other aspect of that

(25:25):
ari which is also you've got tocreate a playbook where you can maximize the
talent. And that's the hard thingand leading and building a business is you
can great get great talent, andgreat talent solves a lot of issues.
But also, you know, Imean we've done some reorganizations recently, you
know, we've grown rapidly and youknow, we've bought, we acquired two

(25:47):
and a half billion dollars of stuffsince the pandemic and you know, which
more than doubled our almost tripled oursize. And you know, just looking
at leadership and how we were organized, and you know, and and and
scale, you know, trying totake advantage of scale. I mean,

(26:07):
it's it's it's uh, you haveto be very thoughtful about it. And
you know we're calibrating. I mean, you know, one of the things
that we've recently uh did organizationally isyou know, we have an acquisitions team,
we had an asset management team.They do similar things, except the
acquisition team does it on the frontend and the asset management team does it

(26:30):
on the back end. And said, well, would we get better?
We had two things we're trying toaddress. One to make ourselves more efficient,
but does more continuity after acquisitions makefor successful transitions because we were finding
that you know, we make,we make decisions and acquisitions, we hand

(26:51):
it off to asset management and theylooking at it a different way, and
just trying to minimize seems you know, the friction and businesses are seams functional
seams where you're handing it off toanother area, and to try to minimize
that as we grow and take advantageof economies of scale is something that we've

(27:12):
tried to do. Did you rollit up under a under a single business
leader both units? Ye? Yes, we did, uh yes, yeah.
And Keith is probably our strongest realestate person in the company and so
you know, and that's a realestate industry facing function and uh and and

(27:37):
so we've we've rolled all that upunder Keith that if it touches a property
other than property management. And thenthe person who headed asset management, who
is one of our stars, KenMcMackin. Ken now runs a strictly investor
facing group portfolio Management, which dealswith a lot of the property analytics and

(28:03):
performance data as it relates to ouryou know investor uh, you know,
our performance, but also our Eschifocus, which has become so much more
important. Uh. And we havea gentleman by name of David nat that
runs that. So David is partof Kent's portfolio management team that really looks
at things from a global standpoint ofparticularly you know, our some of our

(28:29):
environmental uh. Initial One thing Iwould note for the young people or maybe
the non even the non business peoplethat are that are going to listen to
this chat. You know, Darrylruns a number of businesses, so Evanath
is not one business, but it'sit's a it's a it's a culmination of
businesses. It's an investment management business, it's a asset management business, it's

(28:52):
a property management business. They're alldifferent businesses. So it's very very difficult
to do what you're doing. Imean, it's just because you make it
look easy doesn't mean it's easy.Yeah. Well, you know, it
is interesting and probably the most importantthing is getting the various leaders and we

(29:18):
you know, and and it alwaystakes a little bit of time organizationally to
get and we have a great teamand and you know, um getting you
know, having everybody collaborate. Andyou know, we've been back in the
office since January. And while youknow, we we certainly you know um
uh you know, we followed allthe safe being protocols during COVID. You

(29:41):
know, our business, as yousay, are it's it is multidisciplinary,
and you know, and being awayfrom each other was so much harder than
now we're back together. And it'sfunny because we you know, we got
a lot of pushback of you know, people not wanting come back in the
office. But you know, wewe try. We we created one of

(30:03):
the things we did, we lookedat different work hours and things like that,
and we settled on sort of apermanent structure where we work a little
bit longer Monday through Thursday and Fridayis and everybody is in the office Monday
through Thursday, and then Friday isa half day and people can work that
at home or in the office.And that seems to have, you know,

(30:26):
been very well accepted. And thenthe other thing, like we all
do we we you know, wewe were not above bribe. So we
have lunch brought in every day.So we normally had it one day a
week. Now we have it fourdays a week. So everyone likes that.
That's nice. Maybe Grace deal,I cannot. I can do some

(30:47):
of that as well. UM justleading on those two those two points right
already mentioned you know how multi fascinatedyour business is UM and and I think
you guys have all begun a newbranch which is actually ground of development.
I was hoping you could tell usabout that and maybe you know why now

(31:07):
in this really unique market period.Well, I would say a couple of
things. One is, you know, we we we have a lot of
investors. Our primary business is theacquisition, rehab and preservation of affordable housing,
but we have a huge need toadd more housing, and we have

(31:29):
a lot of investors say, well, Darrel, we think it's great that
you're doing preservation, but can youdo more to add more housing. So,
you know, we we've made thedecision to pursue a couple of different
things. One our situations where Imean we're we're not going to just go
out and buy a piece of landand compete with all my really good friends
who do it extremely well like TrammelCrow and Ken Balich and there I mean

(31:53):
they do. You know, thereare people out there to do an amazing
job. That's not going to beour business, but we're gonna. You
know, one of the things wedo very well in our affordable business is
we partner with public entities and wehave an ongoing dialogue with public entities.
So our focus on ground up development, our situations that have a public private

(32:16):
you know situation. You know,we are doing a ground up development in
my hometown of Detroit that we're buildingon city land that's been vacant for many,
many years, and where the landcost is, you know, allows
us a really where it's it's essentiallywe're buying land for a dollar, and

(32:38):
that gives us a great economic incentiveto build. And so those are the
situations we're focused on. Number one. Number two within our portfolio, we
you know, and it's the natureof it seems to be some of the
early affordable tax credit deals that we'rebuilt, I guess people were scrapped for

(33:02):
money. But we probably have twentyproperties within our portfolio that were under that
are under density. For instance,we have one just outside of downtown Oakland
that is one hundred and twenty apartmentsand we can add seventy more units there.
And the great thing about that isa the political support for a project

(33:28):
like that is much stronger, andeven resident neighborhood support, because you know,
you're already the properties already there,you're just adding more units. So
people are not trying to they've acceptedthe fact that there's an affordable property in
their neighborhood. And then the secondthing, it's it's very accreative if you
can add apartments to an existing sitebecause you have no land costs. So

(33:53):
we have a we've identified almost anaddition three to four thousand units we can
add within our portfolio. And partof how we h we made the decision
to really try to execute on those, I mean, one of the the

(34:14):
the challenges is our historic fund model, which our first four funds were closed
in funds that had finite life,and we've now evolved. We started in
the end of twenty twenty one,we closed our first open ended fund,
which is called the Renaissance Fund,and that fund currently has about a billion

(34:35):
two of value and we seated itwith some assets and that's where we're raising
money. But we are going totake advantage of some of these expansion opportunities
in the affordable world. So that'sthat's really our strategy, I mean,
which is fairly unique. I mean, we're not looking to go out and

(34:57):
start tying up, you know,but they're going to be very specifically targeted
at either out of our portfolio orpublic um you know, private situations where
you know, we're we're having adialogue with the Chicago Housing Authority on some
of their sites that formerly housed umUM public housing, and so those are

(35:21):
the situations we're going to pursue yeahsor are we gonna saying are I was
just going to ask about the investorbase of the Perpetual Life vehicle. When
I think of uh, the Blackstonevehicle, April Housing and the capital that
was allocated to that, uh,to that, to that platform. You

(35:44):
know, it looks at this typeof investment, if I understand it correctly,
it's more of like a fixed incomealternative, so a cash flow business.
Um is that are you sharing investorsor the same groups that are investing
in a April Housing? Um?Are they the same investors that invest in
your Perpetual ifehicle? I can't saythat specifically, Ari, but I do

(36:08):
know that since Blackstone came in thebusiness, we've had far more investor awareness
about our space. And you know, when someone of that significance and I
applaud them for what they're doing inthe affordable space and um, but you
know, it's interesting because people say, oh, my god, Blackstone's in

(36:28):
it, you know, what's this? And then they said, well,
who else is in it? Andthey find us? So people, you
know, some people have said,my god, that's got to be scary
to you. That they're coming intoyour space. I'm like, no,
it's made us very very away.Potentially, We'll see if that's true.
But I understand what you're saying.Yeah, yes, yeah, Well,

(36:50):
we've had investors that literally found us. They said, well, we start
looking at this, and then we'vefound out who else and we found you,
And we've actually generated to actual investorscoming in and uh, you know,
and and and let me let mejust back up from a big picture
standpoint, um, and this issomething particularly I've had. I've had discussions

(37:13):
with certain government officials, including youknow, I mean heads of housing authorities,
and we're like, we're just notgonna let someone like Blackstone come into
this business. And then what Iwhat I pushed back on. I said,
look, we do not have enoughpublic capital in the system to solve
the affordability issues. We have toget private capital, private equity, you

(37:38):
know, um, private wealth intothis space to make an impact on affordability.
We just don't have enough public money. You know, there's limited federal
resources, they're limited state resources.So I've tried to be you know,
and in many respects that's our business. So I mean, we're we're in
the same capital you know, raisebusiness that Blackstone is in, and so

(38:02):
you know that, I think theperception of that of a firm that large
is you know that they look atthat and their concerned. But you know,
I think that the private equity intothe affordable business, I think most
have been very responsible, including Blackstone. I mean we've gotten to know them
and I think they're all their Theirexecution has been I think, very very

(38:25):
well done. And you know,but there's this fear and part of it
is, you know, the thethe commercial that people in the multifamily business.
As an industry, we are probablymaybe I don't know where. I
think we're probably above lawyers, butthe local car dealers. I mean,

(38:50):
you know the perceptions of our industryand I've I've spoken publicly about this.
We need to improve what we looklike to the the you know, the
public. I mean, I thinkthere's too many you know, they're commentaries
being seized about evictions and the realityis, I mean, we have very

(39:12):
few evictions in the apartment industry.I mean as a you know, and
I know the commentary is different,um, but you know, these are
things that we need to tell thestory better about what you know, the
the industry does, and I thinkwe're we don't do it as well as
we should. Makes sense. Iagree with that Roman you were going to

(39:35):
ask you well, and some ofthe things, some of the things that
we say. I mean, youknow, an unnamed friend who's the CEO
of a very large read I listenedas probably eighteen months ago, and they
were they were applauding the fact that, you know, they've really increased their
turnover to sixty percent and they're newleases, they're getting twenty percent higher and

(40:00):
and you know, and this wasa public you know form where they said
that. I'm like, you know, that's not a good thing. And
you know that you publicly say thatthat we're trying to do this, and
and but it also has a biggerissue. One of the things I've learned
and many of the things that wedo, and you know, getting back

(40:22):
to learning a business, you know, a lot of the things we've learned
or trial and era. And onething that I know is that what makes
a property safer is low turnover.And you know, when you know,
our turnover is about fifteen percent,and when we buy a property and it's

(40:43):
thirty forty fifty if we get itdown to fifteen. It's gonna become safer.
And I tell some of my goodfriends, who are you know in
other companies? I said, youknow, you live in a very nice
community Scarsdale, New York, BeverlyHill, wherever. And you know,
think about it. You live ina neighborhood. How would you feel if

(41:05):
sixty percent of your neighbors were newevery year? I mean, it wouldn't
be that, it wouldn't be thatnice of a community. And I think
that's what we have to be thinkingmore about those things that. You know,
why there is such negativity of youknow, multifamily operators is just you
know, how we conduct ourselves inbuilding communities. And I recognize we are

(41:30):
certainly a for profit company, butI think our messaging and our focus it
could be a lot different. Umyou know, I mean we you know,
we've had in certain markets twelve thirteenpercent increases in area median income where
we could push the rent by that, but we typically do that over a

(41:50):
couple of years. You don't wantto lose good residence. I mean you're
you're saying you want to be rewardedfor retention, but also I think your
capital rewards you because you've got incomecontinuity, uh, and so you can
pay. It's all about marrying thecapital base to the investment thesis. And
that's kind of why I asked thequestion about how you view your capital base

(42:12):
and what they're looking to achieve.If you can deliver them a constant um,
then you can you can be rewardedfor good stewardship of of of of
your assets, right because I understandagree with you. I would never want
to live somewhere where where sixty percentof my neighbors roll over. That's just
not fun, you know, Like, yeah, so I don't I don't
think that's I don't think that's it. Well said, yeah, yeah,

(42:35):
And you know again, our ourreturn story is that you know, we're
you know, we're in the valueadd return business, so low taine returns,
but we try to generate half ofthat with current cash flow, half
of that with appreciation, and currentcash flow is maximized with low turnover because
the retentating costs and all that isreally much more expensive. And then you

(43:01):
know, keeping UM residents in place. Do you think cities and municipalities have
a role to play in this UMin encouraging UM? You know, business
models more like yours. As Iunderstand, you know, like you mentioned,
you guys are are going into inthe lower occupancy communities properties UM lower

(43:23):
income and they have disinvestment and you'repouring money into these UM and you're improving
you know, the real and economicvacancy UM and and over time they reduced
turnover. The high occupancy UM reallyyields cash full and appreciation. In places
like New York, you know,you have you have a lot of sort

(43:43):
of I think owners that are playingthe game that you refer to where where
there's high turnover and are getting thoserent pops, especially after COVID. Do
you think that um, you know, playing the game that you're that you're
that you're playing, that that modelis would be more popular if cities were
offering more tax abatements deeper cuts.Well, I think that I would just

(44:07):
I will start by saying the reverseof that is that all these initiatives for
things like rent control and the likeare because of people who do this more
predatory approach to these significant rent increasesand and you know, things like that.
And I would say the reverse istrue as well. We have been

(44:30):
embraced by a lot of our publichousing and public sector partners. You know,
we recently acquired a deal in southcentral Los Angeles Baldwin Village, and
Baldwin Village was featured very prominently ifyou watch Denzel Washington's movie Training Days,

(44:53):
it's the community they ended up in. Now that community is depicted in the
movie is quite menaced, but itreally isn't. It's a workforce housing community
and not rent regulate it. Theaverage rents were probably fifteen hundred a month
and we bought it. But webought it and we had to compete against

(45:15):
market buyers who were looking to potentiallytake the rents from fifteen hundred to twenty
eight hundred to three thousand a month, and so we went into We have
a great relationship with the housing authorityof the city of La Hackla, and
we went to Hacklin said, hey, if we buy this and we put

(45:35):
affordability restrictions on, would you considergiving us a tax abatement Because in California,
they're a statutory agency that could providea tax abatement. So they were
very, very excited by the idea. We ended up we put thirty five
percent of the property at sixty percentof AMI thirty five percent, eighty percent

(46:00):
of AMI and then thirty percent orat market and they got this. You
know, we I mean, wewere going through a competitive bidding process,
you know the time frame and youknow, having to close. And Hackler
was able to get approvals for thiswithin that time frame of less than sixty
days, which is pretty amazing.And so there is a lot of interest.

(46:25):
I mean, we bought it.We did it. We first did
a deal like this in the cityof Boston, and the City of Boston
was amazing. We bought an older, non rent regulated property that we ended
up putting affordability restrictions on in exchangefor the city then gave us a grant

(46:45):
that made the economics work. Andso, you know, and the one
thing that I would say in thecity in the deal in Los Angeles,
we put a hundred and thirty milliondollars of equity in this deal. The
value of the of the tax abatementis about thirty forty million dollars. So

(47:06):
it's a three or four For everydollar of public money, there's a three
x or so of private money,whereas in the typical tax credit execution,
for every dollar of private money there'seight dollars of public money. So these
are things that I think more citieshave to start looking at. And you

(47:28):
know, and I would say,we've been very pleased that we've had a
lot of housing authorities and other citiesapproach us about coming there and doing a
similar type of transaction. So youknow, it's I think the cities,
many of them are recognizing that we'vegot to do some more innovative things that

(47:49):
involve attracting private capital into the housingbusiness in their community. Would I would
agree with one observation. I thinkyour old partner was involved in that deal
or maybe an adjacent deal if I'mnot mistake, but Hills Jo Lava So
I mean, my my my observationaround public private is that one rent control

(48:13):
and rent stabilization, UM, it'sreactive policy. It causes a degregation to
housing quality. You know, itincentivizes vacant property, vacate vacant vacating units
rather than retaining. It's hard toit dissuades a private enterprise because you know,

(48:35):
it's just it's just very hard tooperate. In my experience, I
would say, uh, incentives suchas pilots are a good means. The
loan Come Using Tax Credit program.It has been wildly successful. I think
two thirds of housing United States sincethe since the eighties has been developed with
UH with the loan come Housing taxCredit. Even though it is you know,

(48:55):
hyper levered, as you said inrelationship to private to public, I
think the I think the new ITCand the greunification of property is actually going
to be pretty material and creating andenabling new transactions for housing. So marrying
the loan causing tax credit with theITC and perhaps a pilot subsidy there,

(49:21):
I do think there is a future. I personally am not a proponent in
stabization n control. I don't I'veworked in a housing business for twenty years
and I can tell you directly basedon twenty years of experience, it does.
It perverts the system. That's myview, no question, no question.
And here's the thing, and thisis something I've had public I think

(49:45):
one of the things our industry doesn'tdo very well. I mean our argument
that we always use. And youknow I'm a former chairman of National Multifamily
Housing Council and very active in theorganization. Then these are conversations I've had
with other chairmen and leaders and DougBibby and and our new our new president,

(50:07):
um uh Sharon, you know Wilson, is that our messaging around because
our typical response is, well,this is going to impede supply. The
reality of it if if people havetwenty percent rent increases, they don't give
a damn about future supply, andso that, you know, the messaging

(50:30):
should be better about. You know, I look at certain companies and I
know during the pandemic that you know, like, for instance, we voluntarily
we lowered our residence rent the firstmonth of the pandemic by ten percent,
just because you know that that's ouraverage rent is it's thirteen hundred. That

(50:52):
hundred thirty dollars could have an immediateimpact on people, and we did that.
Now, we didn't do that lightly. We but I reached out to
every one of our investors and itwas probably three basis points of their return.
I mean, you can't just giveaway without checking in, and they
said, that's absolutely the right thingto do. You know. I know

(51:15):
that Camden, which is you knowRick Campo, who's a great friend of
mine, and you know Rick's companydid some amazing things. You know,
Rick contributed out of his pocket youknow, five million dollars to help his
residence. I mean, these aregreat stories of an industry that I think
is doing a lot of great thingsin terms of housing safety and things like

(51:38):
that, and we need to sortof lead with that and not the supply
angle because it's just not something thatI think resonates with people. But anyway,
so that you know, we Ithink there's still some efforts that are
going on regarding you know, certaincities. I know Boston's one of them,

(52:00):
and you know, we'll see whathappened. Indeed, do you think
that governments are feeling the urgency tobuild more fable housing at this time?
You know they are, And youknow, one of the things, and
I know we may talk a littlebit about kind of a little bit more
my involved in a government, butthe one thing I do spend a lot

(52:20):
of time in Washington and talking toboth members of Congress and members of the
Senate. The one thing that willbe very It could be I could go
to the furthest left and the furthestright, and when I start talking to
them, they will always start theconversation or let me just from a backdrop,
Yeah, you've got the very wealthymembers of the House in Congress.

(52:44):
But the average one, they mayhave, you know, worked in government.
They may have been on a localcity council. Maybe they're a teacher,
maybe there they were a lawyer.They you know, they did something
upper middle class, and then theywind up in the House or the Senate.
Well, most of them that youknow, they'll talk about, well,

(53:06):
I've got a kid who's still livingat home and I want them to
get an apartment, but they're tooexpensive. I have an aging parent that
needs senior housing and it's too expensive. But the first thing that any of
the members will talk about is theirhousing situation. I would say, if
I talk to ten members, themost liberal on the left, the most

(53:27):
conservative on the right, if Italk to you know, ten of those,
I promise you that at least maybethat will two that won't mention it
one, you know out of ten, maybe two out of ten, but
eight of them will immediately get intosome personal situation of rent and housing prices
being too high. So it's somethingthat everybody feels, and even people in

(53:52):
Washington, which is why you know, when you look at certain things like
the tax credit business, there's generallybipartisans order that even the Section eight program,
I mean, the funding becomes tricky, but there's generally bipartisan support for
that. So, you know,we are probably less divided in terms of

(54:13):
the need for housing and the factthat we have a crisis. The issue
is that there's differences in solutions.But I do think there is an understanding
local government, state government, particularlya local government, because they're dealing with
the front end of what is happeningin you know, people that are have

(54:35):
housing affordability crises, and that isyou know, the proliferation of homelessness in
many of the cities. Yeah.Absolutely, How is a vantage prepared to
sort of take advantage? It seemslike affordable housing is having a moment these
last few years, and especially aswe come out of the pandemic. Well,
we continue to try to you know, create very high quality committee communities

(55:02):
and serve our residents. Well that'sthe first thing. I mean, we
always talk, you know, wewant to get high returns for our investors.
My message to our team is verysimple. If we take care of
our residents who live in our communities, everything else good is going to happen.
You know, We're gonna you knowall have great you know, financial

(55:22):
success. Our investors are going tosucceed, but we have to do our
jobs and taking care of our residentsand you know, very trying situations today.
I mean, you know, thisinflation has had an impact beyond you
know, just rent. And youknow most of you know, all of
our residents, you know, workvery very hard. And you know even

(55:47):
you know, forty percent of ourhouseholds or Section eight households, and you
know, they work very hard.And many of our Section eight families have
two incomes and they say, wellwhy do they get Section eight? Well,
they both work at Walmart and theylive in LA and so that you
know, there's a need. Andso you know, we we're going to

(56:09):
continue to focus on the things thatwe do to try to figure out how
to make our residents, you know, even stronger financially. I mean,
we recently we're part of a programwith a company with two incredible entrepreneurs as
SUSU that we are UM, youknow, which is a data analytics company

(56:32):
that we are now capturing our residents. UM number one, we're creating credit
scores for many of our residents.But then UM it's been making them you
know, increasing their their credit scoreswith with on time rent payments and things
like that we have to do toyou know, I mean, our goal

(56:54):
is to have our affordable residents elevateand you know, financially and where they're
they don't qualify for affordable housing.That's our objective of every resident that we
have. You're it's a customer centricmentality. If you if you can satisfy
your customer, then your capital willget rewarded for it. I mean,

(57:15):
you know, well, and yeah, I mean it's you. It's exactly
right. I mean, like anykBezos has built the biggest business and his
his entire philosophy was, you know, make the customer emphatic about what you've
got and and you'll get paid.And I think I think that's true.
You know, I believe that that'sbeen my lefnse Yes, it's absolutely true.

(57:35):
And as we start to kind ofcome to a rap, UM wanted
to to just ask you two lastones. So first, um, you
know, what are some of thekey challenges that are they're keeping up at
night right now? Like what aresome of those some of those things that
are like man gotta deal with this, Oh, clearly, Um, you

(57:59):
know, it's it's always people,because we're in people business, always making
sure we have the right people inthe right places. And we've invested lately
a lot of time and energy andin training and just making sure we continue
to elevate. So that's probably whatI think about. I try not to
stay up at night, don't worryabout business. So that's the first thing.

(58:22):
And uh, you know, becauseyou you know what, one of
the things I'm very I feel veryproud or blessed about. We've refinanced a
whole bunch of debt the last threeyears where we've locked in we don't have
very few debt maturities over the nextfew years, and we've locked in a

(58:44):
good chunk of our financing over thenext seven to ten years that ares around
three percent. So that's one thingI sleep very well about. Um,
you know, so the you know, so they're they're really really you know,
just ongoing. I mean I thinkthat, Um, you know,

(59:05):
what I probably worry most about areyou know, things that you know,
many of our urban areas have becomea lot more dangerous from a public safety
standpoint, So I worry about that, and we continue to try and find
ways to make our community safer.And so you know, and and we've

(59:27):
and they are, you know prettymuch. Um, but just you know,
concerned about that. Um. Soyou know that's probably the thing.
You know that and and that's aswe all should have in general, whether
we're in this business a lot.I mean, that's that's a key part
of our quality of life is safety, no question. I saw that.

(59:49):
It was terrible what happened to thefellow who I think it was a part
of Square. I was reading itthis morning. That was that was that's
incredibly unnerving. Um So yeah,what advice do you have for young entrepreneurs
that are now in the shoes thatyou found yourself, you know in nineteen
ninety one, starting their own enterprisesin real estate maybe in adjacent businesses.

(01:00:15):
What advice would you have to impartto them? You know, it's the
advice that no entrepreneur wants to hear. And that is the P word patient
and um, you know, andand and it's hard. It's hard to
be patient because you want things tohappen, and they happen when they happen.

(01:00:36):
But you know, when we started, um, my old partner,
Quentin Primo and Quentin and I wentto high school together and we started our
business. It was originally called CarterPrimo Chesterton and and Capri comes from Carter
and Primo. But Um Chesterton wasa company that was the oldest real estate
company in the world. They areno longer in business. They merged and

(01:01:00):
ended up with another European company.But the chairman of Chesterton, whose I
think great grandfather started the business,would tell us, and we were in
our thirties and we were just youknow, he said, well, what
do you tell me about what thebusiness is going to look like in ten

(01:01:23):
years? And like, I don'twant to hear that. I'm trying to
get through the next month. Tenyears. Hey, I'm not even thinking
about that. But he was sosir William Wells. He was so focused
on longevity. And you have tothink, even as a startup, where

(01:01:44):
you want to be because that directionallyguide you to making certain decisions, and
you know, making long term decisions, which is hard to do. And
so I would say the patience andlooking long term are the things that are
most important, as well as alsobuilding relationships, because you never know where

(01:02:07):
you're going to get a break,and very often it's going to be someone.
You know, one of our firstpension fund investors was a large company
that there was, believe it ornot, there was a broker who was
on a deal that when I wasmy old company, Westinghouse Credit. It
was a failed deal and we gota big deposit that the developer had put

(01:02:34):
up because we were concerned he wasgonna walk after we did all this.
So I was having a good yearand you know, and we were hitting
all of our numbers and I ranthe West Coast operation for this and there
was a broker who worked at asmall company who had worked his tailoff who
didn't get anything. So I wentto my bosses and said, you know,

(01:02:55):
this guy really worked hard. Iwant to give him half of our
that our deposit that was forfeited.So I brought him in the office,
gave him the fee, and youknow, he was very very appreciative.
I didn't have to do it,but it was considerable. I mean,
it was probably a definitely six figurekind of number. And later on after
you know, we had gotten ourfirst pension fund investor, and then and

(01:03:20):
then I heard that there was apension fund that had a you know,
they were looking for something and youknow, you call these guys and they
never or they call you a monthlater. And so I called this guy
who ran real estated a large,a major fund and he had a common
name. So I called him andthen he called me back in twenty minutes,
and I was just shocked, likewow. So I get on the

(01:03:42):
phone and I'm and I'm you know, and I'm mister Smith. And he
said, Daryl, you don't rememberme, he said, and he said,
I'm the you know, I wasin Newport Beach and now this was
a different state, so I didn'tmake the connection. And he said,
I remember what you did for methen, and you fly here the next
week and sit down and we willdo something. And that was the same

(01:04:05):
guy, and it was probably aseven seven year gap. And you did
you did what you did because itwas the right thing to do, and
you you know, and it hada huge tibot ind on the other side.
So you never know where people comeand go, which is why you
conduct yourself. You take the highroad all the time. Well, well,

(01:04:29):
so sometimes the low road offers sucha traction, but take the high
road. When they go low,we go high, right, isn't that
the isn't it. We heard that, you know when you when you when
you were chatting, I was thinking. We had John People's junior on the
podcast. I was listening to it, and I recently saw he put out
a congratulating message to his dad andhe said, and I think, I

(01:04:49):
think the message you put out andpart was we're not looking at thirty years,
we're looking at three hundred years.So they're looking really far down the
line. And so I think,I think think, uh, I think
having the discipline to think a longand also invest in relationships is the difference,
right. It's it's at the endof the thing, when you die,
um, what you leave as yourfamily name and and and the and

(01:05:12):
the people that remember you, andthey remember you for all the things that
you've done. You know you've done, and so you know, I've I
try to live that way myself.Well, it's it's fun and and and
uh, Don Peoples is a goodfriend of mine, and he and I
we you know, we're kind ofthe old guard of guys who were African
American and the other one is VictorMcFarland who's a very good friend of mine.

(01:05:36):
And and uh, you know,we were the three of us were
getting together because Victor and Don aredoing this huge project in LA and we
were talking and we were talking aboutthese big development projects and we're saying,
you know, the great thing aboutthem is that, you know, we

(01:05:56):
there's this all this money down theroad, but we're too old ever realize
it, say we got to doshorter term deals. But we have great
laughs and two and those two guysare really two of the pioneers in this
business. And so um, youknow it's it's you know, I want
to see you know, other youngblack, minority, you know, diverse

(01:06:21):
people coming to this industry because thereis a great there's a this is a
great business. And you know,one of the challenges in getting you know,
younger diverse folks in this business isthat it is not a you're not
gonna get stock options and become aneBay you know, millionaire in five years.

(01:06:44):
I mean, it's a it's atortoise business, you know, and
and if you're a hair it's justnot going to work. So the tortoise
does win though for sure. We'reseeing it for sure again for forty one
years, forty two years. Wellsaid, um, thank you for your

(01:07:06):
time today. That's that's all Ihave from from my end. Anything else
you want to add Ari, Well, no, no, I want to
ask a fun question. I wantDaryl will wrap it up. My My
fun question is if you if ifto celebrate, whether it's a capital closing,
uh, a dinner with family ora deal closing, what's your favorite

(01:07:28):
place to have a celebratory dinner.Oh my god, that is a really
really good question. Um wow,Uh favorite place? Well, I love
the cook so the one of theplaces is at home, and I love

(01:07:49):
you know, all my friends loveto come to my house when I grill.
But you know, to really celebrate, Oh my god, I have
so many I don't know. It'sit's a good question. I could tell
you places that I like to go, Like I'm going to Cabo tomorrow.
This is like my last day beforea week and a half a vacation,

(01:08:10):
so that's one of my places Ilike. I love Hawaii. I would
say Hawaii is my favorite destination.So it would be somewhere and there are
some great restaurants in Hawaii, butthat would be the play. I appreciate
that. I just thought of oneadditional one, and this is off the
cuff, So bear with me,But I listen to a pod. I

(01:08:30):
listen to a podcast by a gentlemannamed Stephen Bartlett over in the UK.
He's sort of popular in the Inthe podcast circles, he interviews CEOs.
It's called Diary of the CEO,and at the end of the podcast he
asks his guests, you know whatthey might ask the next fellow who hops
on the podcast, and the nextperson will likely be, you know,

(01:08:54):
another black executive in real estate,and you know, maybe if you have
any questions you might want to passalong to that person. That's a good
one. You know. The questionthat I always find interesting to particularly to
ask another African American executive is whatare the advantages of being black in this

(01:09:24):
industry? Because the one thing Ialways laugh, you know, to people
and they said, well, it'sgonna be odd that you know you're I
mean, particularly thirty years ago,and you know, and it's funny because
people can always find me. I'msix foot seven and I'm probably particularly back

(01:09:46):
in the day, i was goingto be the only black person in the
room. Now, the funny thingis my good friend Victor McFarland, who's
about six to five. People wouldcome up to me, they said,
you're either Darrell or Victor, andI would say, I'm Darryl. I'm
taller and better looking. Victor isricher and shorter. But you know,

(01:10:10):
at the end of the day,you know, and people would say,
well, wouldn't that make you feelbad that people come up to you and
they think you're Victor McFarland. I'mlike, no, I view that as
a compliment. Victor success more successfulthan me, you know. So you
know, and that's just the onething. You don't take those things as
slights. You have fun with them. And and so Victor and I used

(01:10:30):
to and I said, so whenthey come up and they ask, you
know, are you Daryl Carter,do you tell them you're richer and shorter.
So we we've had a great laughwith that over the year. But
it's a great question question, Daryl, you're gonna wrap up what we're going
to contribute. Well, I wasjust gonna say, Ari, you know

(01:10:51):
again, I've watched you build anincredible company, and you know, and
I commend you on your success.You've done it through hard work and doing
it the right way. And sowe have very very high regard for your
firm. And I think this initiativethat you're doing is fantastic, and I

(01:11:12):
think you're going to continue to beextremely successful, and one of these days
you won't be a niche player.You're going to be bigger than all these
other companies. And so I justsay keep on doing it, because I'm
very proud from a far watch.Thank you very much. It's been all.
As you know, the our admirationof you is mutual. We're grateful
for you to participate, We're gratefulfor the business relationship we've had, and

(01:11:34):
thank you very much for carving uptime this morning. You're a busy man,
so thank you. Produced by HeartcastMedia