BPN w/ Donahue Peebles III

In this episode of Greysteel's GreyCast podcast, Our host Donahue Peebles III, a real estate entrepreneur and executive vice president of Peebles Corporation. Donahue Peebles III shares his experience growing up in a family of real estate entrepreneurs and how his father's teachings helped shape his career. They also discuss the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on the real estate industry and what to expect in the post-pandemic future. Donahue Peebles III emphasizes the importance of considering the needs and desires of communities and the people when planning and building structures, as they are the ones who will ultimately benefit from them. The conversation also covers New York City's skyline and the significance it holds worldwide. Finally, Donahue Peebles III shares his insights and tips on motivation and success.

Takeaways

Donahue Peebles III story as a 2nd-generation real estate entrepreneur

The current status of the real estate market during pandemic and post-pandemic

Sustaining local market expertise and affordable housing allocation and promoting diversity in Washington D.C.

New York’s symbolism for real estate and its skyscrapersThe drive and motivation into achieving goals and success

Quotes

When we enter a market, we commit to acting ethically towards everyone involved, including the policy makers and our competitors. We aim to do our best for ourselves, our investors, and our community. - Donahue Peebles III

Developers should listen to communities about what they want and have a service mindset when working on projects, rather than thinking they should show people what they want. - Donahue Peebles III

Featured in this Episode

Donahue Peebles III
Executive Vice President, The Peebles Corporation
https://www.linkedin.com/in/donahue-peebles-73503b73

Chapters
00:00 Introduction
02:38 Donahue Peebles III background
09:54 Growing the business as 2nd generation entrepreneur
13:16 The status or real estate market nowadays
23:42 Sustaining local market expertise in Washington D.C.
30:48 Affordable Housing and promoting diversity in D.C.
40:05 The skyline of New York City
44:00 The drive and motivation
46:13 Wrap-up
48:12 How to invest with People Corporation
51:55 Conclusion

Produced by Heartcast media
www.heartcastmedia.com

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
These podcasts are presented by Gray Stealand Gray Steal's Black Professional Network. Gray
Steel is a national commercial brokerage withtwelve offices across the country and delivered as
our clients and integrated suite of capitalsolutions tailored to the unique needs of each
engagement across asset types and geographies.Gray Steel provides investment sales, capital markets,
and JB equity solutions for our clients. These series of podcasts are hosted

(00:27):
and moderated by the leaders of theGray Steal Black Professional Network. The GDPN
was founded to help deliver and driveretention internally and accelerate the hiring externally of
diverse talent as we believe that thereare more representative culture can drive impact and
real business results. Each guest interviewedas an industry leader and trailblazer, and

(00:48):
we hope that their stories can helpinform and drive impact, impactful greater representation
in our industry. Your host willbe Aaron Edman, co founder of the
GBPN and spearheads our investment sales businessin Baltimore and surrounding metros. Also Nigel
Crayton, co founder of GPPN anda senior team leader of the DC and

(01:10):
the Atlantic Investment Sales business and tcCosgry, co founder of GDPN and leader
of the national Structured Finance business.All right, so welcome to another episode
of Great Cast. Here as yourhost, you have Aaron mun from the
Mid Atlantic Multifamily Team on our nationalMultifamily Investment Sales team Here at Cresteel.

(01:32):
We have a very special guest fortoday, Don Peoples, the third who
serves the development executive and managing memberfor Peoples Corporations, real estate developer based
out of Miami. You know,obviously a large family run business doing a

(01:53):
extremely large development deals on a nationalbasis in Boston, Miami, New York,
really just about any large imasay youcan think about in the United States.
Um, we're gonna get into someof the exciting deals they've done the
past, uh you know, what'sin the current pipeline. Uh, you
know, and just talk about allthings real estate related over the course this

(02:15):
conversation. But UM, don youknow when I give you an opportunity to
sort of for the people who whowho do not know UM or you know,
or like to, you know,learn some some things about you maybe
they they haven't known. Just togive you a little background for you know,
who you are, where you're from, how you got into this business,
a little bit about your your firmand so on and so forth.

(02:38):
Absolutely happy to do it. AndAaron, I gotta tell you it's it's
a pleasure to uh um be apart of great cast. Uh certainly work
great so in the past and youguys are really a pleasure to work with.
Um so really do appreciate it.But yeah, you know, it's
it's funny. I like your question, how do you get started in the
business? For me was it wastwenty eight years ago when I was born

(03:01):
to the two parents, as withthemselves, were in the real estate business.
And you know, it's it's beensort of all up from there.
You know, my father's a verysuccessful real estate developer, and it was
very intentional, deliberate, ab outportunityup to the business. So my real
estate education actually happened simultaneous with myreal education. So day I learned how

(03:23):
to add and subtract and carry numbers. I learned that on a pan out
when I learned a long division,you know the kind where you write out
the two numbers with a weird signin between. That's the day I learned
what capriate was. And when Iwas a kid and I wanted to go,
you know, to McDonald's or whateverafter basketball practice or what our kind

(03:43):
of treat, you know, twelveyear old, and he was into um
and I asked my parents, andyou know, I would say, we
can go, but you've got tovalue the real estate under the McDonald's or
you know that house right there asa multi family building. And we'll assume
all your assumptions are correct, butyour methodology has to be right. And

(04:04):
for the most part, I getit right. Sometimes I get it wrong.
And what was interesting is that ifwhen I got it wrong, you
think that my lovely father would havelet me go to the dollals those days,
but you know, we didn't go. And and the truth is is,
not only did did he bless mewith like a ton of accumulated advantage,

(04:25):
extraordinarily privileged, all the best schools, all the best opportunities, but
he also gave me what I think, you know, any man in the
world needs, and that's the abilityto take care of themselves and their family,
a real skill set, a tradeus. Ever since I can remember,
I worked in real estate I didn'twant internship on Capitol Hill. I
worked for Barbara League, California's ninthum. You know, at the time,

(04:50):
probably the most liberal congress person,only person to vote against the Iraq
War. But after that I wasin city. I was at delgre in
Prince Sweets, and I came overand started working in the family business.
And a little bit probably on thatis helpful. But we're a large scale
national development firm. Pipeline to bedelivered over the next seven to ten years

(05:13):
of about five billion in total projectcost. We focus on public private partnerships.
So what that means is we buyland for municipalities when we repurpose it
to private uses. We do thatin large partner Because we're good listeners,
we're able to ascertain what municipalities arelooking for the craft projects. That's et
MEENTALI is their economic goals, buttheir public policy goals. Right, I

(05:35):
think you know all of us areand certainly unitedly agree and I was sure
most of our listeners can agree thatit's probably a good thing that mayors,
governors and city council members don't getto promote when they sell land for a
ton of money. Instead, theyget reelected and so creating public policy wins
is more important than them the sellers, than you know, creating economic winds.

(05:58):
And we do our best craft projectsthat are attended to both objectives.
So in twenty seventeen, um,you know, in response to sort of
changing discipline objectives, I think pretwenty seventeen, pre GFC, really uh,
you know, municipalities, we're lookingto revitalize downtown course uh, you
know, bring heighten commers out orin from the suburbs. Uh and and

(06:23):
sort of you know, rebuild upthose economically disenfranchised city centers. Uh.
After GFC and from GFC sort ofthrough twenty seventeen, you know, there
was almost this like mutual backpad,the type that that you see in New
Kings of New York, the bookthat the Dusties came out with. UM.

(06:44):
But twenty seventeen, I think thesort of new the cultural zeitgeis and
municipal politics really changed. And atthe tippy tippy top of the discussion came
affordable housing and it storically we said, you know, we don't have that
expertise in house, how do wedo with it? And we would often
offload the responsibility of their parties UMthat you know, it's treacherous to some

(07:06):
degree. We get some bad experiences. So I went and found in Legacy
and Real Estate Development LLC UM.Legacy is UH is you know, an
affordable housing developer UM and an owner. UH started in Washington, DC and
has sort of grown to a nationalpresence. But we do ground up life
tech deals. We acquire. Weacquire existing affordable housing, either under some

(07:32):
sort of brain effoy program or outsideof that where it's naturally occurring. And
the legacy has grown relatively considerably overthe past five years. You know that
two hundred and hi billion dollars indevelopment. We acquiring over a thousand units
this year. Uh So, sothings are really moving forward on both of
those tracks. Now, Aaron,that's that's a long, like like ten

(07:55):
minutes, an opposis of who Iam. I didn't touch on most of
my hobbies. I'm kind of agolfer, I don't Yeah, no,
no, no, Well we'll getinto that through the conversation. So I
mean, but definitely appreciate that.And I mean, obviously I'm from Washington,
d C. Uh. You know, I'm a commercial real estate entrepreneur
in a different for a vertical hereas a as a broker um. But

(08:18):
you know, your father and yourfamily sort of your commercial real estate journey
started hearing the district, your dadworking as an appraiser, um, you
know, before founding his development companyh and so on and so forth.
So I mean, I think forboth of us, we're kind of in
that second generation of of you know, American dream where you know, my

(08:46):
my dad was born in Trent,New Jersey, moved to DC, founded
a software company, and I sortof had a very similar experience to you,
you know, going to some ofthe best private schools and colleges and
things like that because of the workof my father. But um, you
hear a lot of people talk abouthow the first person through the door has
to take the most bullets or hasto take the most heat, or you
know, it's always hard to dothe first person to the door. But

(09:09):
I think what a lot of peoplesort of don't understand enough and you know,
and don't put in a lot ofor give a lot of credit to
is the guy who kind of hasto build off those building blocks and take
it to the next level. SoI mean, would you sort of being
this next generation of people's corporation.Um, what you think you've been able
to add to the firm since comingon, you know, as a partner,

(09:33):
and what sort of new ideas haveyou been able to bring h as
a young, energetic, innovative hdeveloper coming on you know, to be
able to take this to the nextlevels. I mean, obviously you've done
dollions of deals in the past.You have doings the deals in your pipeline.
Um, how how do you makethis even larger? Yeah? I

(09:56):
think I think it's a great luck, right, and I love I love
the out of the preface to thequestion, But I don't know if I
agree. Um. I think thatit's tough to be in the first person
to the door, right, especiallyboth of our father's case. You know
where the doors not easily opened whenyou know you're young African American entrepreneur to
take it. But it's hard opennow and it's even harder to open forty

(10:20):
years ago. Um. You know, they took a lot of bullets.
They had to break down a lotof doors and break down a lot of
barriers that you and I don't haveto break it. Um. So look,
I think that there's it's not apressure of free existence to be a
second generation. UM. But butyou certainly you know, UM, you
certainly don't have experience the same difficultiesin the same your challenges that the first

(10:41):
generation did. So the expectation isthat because you're not sort of held back
by all these extraneous factors, thatyou can go so much further. And
and to me, like, Ikind of like the challenge. I like
high expectations. I've never had,you know, get anything I've done.
I've never had the size golf sobad at that, UM, I've never
had low expectations of what I've beenable to accomplish. And you know,

(11:03):
uh, if you kind of attackeach day, I think with that mentality,
the pressure or whatever whatever folks wonI call it, I'm trying to
live up to what the previous generationsaccomplish, just doesn't really meaningfully affect me.
What I say. UM, wetalk about taking something big and making

(11:24):
it bigger. I think I thinkit requires it requires an attitude you know
where complacency is in an option,UM, And I think it requires you
to be a little bit more innovativewithin an existing structure, which I think
can oftentimes be really tough. Ialways kind of compare it to tattoo artists,
right. Um, it's much easierfor a tattoo artist to make a

(11:48):
tattoo right from from just the skinthan it is to you know, take
your ex's name that you didn't likeand turn it into a butterfly. Right.
When you're working within the confines ifsomething exists, and making incremental but
substantive changes, uh is harder becauseyou're dealing with with details, You're dealing
with existing processes and and a lotof times you know, you're dealing with

(12:13):
with institutional and organizational memories. Uh, that that you have to overcome.
Um. But you know in workingwith or in coming in and adding value
reading and that's that's the best drivingto do every day, you know,
and adding skill set. Obviously theaffordable housing pieces of big portion of that.
UM. Certainly look at a projectswith a more institutional uh disposition,

(12:35):
Probably, as my father likes toremind me, probably a product of my
nice litely education. Um. Youknow, but it does teach me about
that bit. So you know,it's it's it's those sorts of things.
Um. But ultimately, right,the goal is is to show up,
you know, take calculated risks,driver turns uh and chase excellence every day.

(12:56):
And that's that's that's the goal.That's what drives me. It's drives
him that your drives you know,our employees to show up here and and
it's making sure that you can pushforward a culture of excellence and not really
you know, preoccupy yourself with differentiatingyourself and what came before, we came
before worked. Absolutely. Absolutely,I think that's a great point. Um.

(13:18):
I mean, you you and I'vespoken about a couple of deals you
know, just you know locally uh, in DC, in the market that
that I serve. But I meanyou're obviously seeing the market for a completely
different scope, um, you know, with you guys being a national development
firm. I hope this isn't broadenough and let me know about narrow the

(13:39):
same, But I mean, howare you seeing the market today? Uh?
And then to piggyback a you knowon that question, how have things
change between now how you're looking atthe market for let's say development deals or
you know, when you're looking tobuild on a site from how you looked
at it twenty four months ago.Um. Yeah, I mean I think
I think there's there's a number ofsort of questions baked in there, right,

(14:03):
UM, I think like maybe three. I think the first one is
like, obviously, you know,we're at the kail end of the economic
psychco who spent the past five orsix years saying, hey, what inning
or are we in what inning?Or we in exusing of sort of this
growth period. I think it's clearthat you know, after that brief sort
of COVID bump, that that's theninth thing, right, and now we're

(14:26):
in for a bit of a reset. I think that So how has that
affected, um, the sort ofbroader real estate market and which which I
typically lags behind, you know,capital market conditions. I think that's one
question. I think the other one, you know, is is how does
that affect our go forward prognosis?Um? You know, as we're looking

(14:48):
at deeper real estate deals, ittakes us a minute to get from project
conception to project delivery. So howhow have our assumption has been been refined?
Uh, in with respect to wherewe see ourselves in the current economic
conditions? So don't I'll take thefirst one, right because I think,
you know, it's a broad question, but I think it's an important question,
and Obviously, the market's not amonolith. Nobody you know listening to

(15:11):
this thinks that the markets the samein Des Moines, LA and Miami.
But certainly, you know, alot of the macroeconomic conditions remained true.
I think the changes you know,caused and or exacerbated by COVID with respect
to UH, you know, thelocation of physical human beings, right,
the sort of net relocation outside ofwhat would be considered low quality of life,

(15:35):
high tax states to some of themore secondary into sharing markets in the
US is beginning to regress a littlebit as supposed to move you know,
back into the office. So rentsin New York City, in San Francisco
and Miami continue to climb, butthey've fallen in Tampa and DesMoines, right

(15:56):
in Nashville and some of the placeswhere folks are going within net relocation play.
UM, I think obviously, quantitivetightening UH and in sort of a
more hawkish FED policy in order tocombat inflation, has had you know,
dilutive effects across the real estate market. Obviously would cost the cap one going
up. It's hav any deluti ofeffect of residual land values. Um,

(16:19):
you know, it's it's cap ratesare growing as a consequence of you know,
the risk free rate increasing um.And certainly inflation has been pushing growth
assumption, which also contributed to ariseing cap rates. Uh and and so
you know, it's at some pointplacing primacy on an existing product over development

(16:42):
products. UM And then I thinkobviously the rate increases are sort of chasing
a broader inflationary period within which likeraw materials and labor costs have gone up
considerably. And so as we're inthis inflationary cycle, you know, we're
continuing to chase for runaway construction costsand month over most month over month cost

(17:03):
increases which have made you know,projection to perspective development projects especially tenuous or
precarious is probably the right word.You know, your GMP is only as
good as the day the paper wasprinted. Um And it's uh, it's
it's it's a tough world when youknow, when you see month over month
hard cost increases a twenty percent,there's is not a lot of deals that

(17:25):
can that can sort of you know, stomach uh that type of hard cost
increase. So you know, that'swhere I see us, and broadly from
a macro perspective how that's affected orlook forward and a little bit more n
wants UM. You know, asyou see with an inverted deal curve right
when you're thinking about exit assumption,so either you know, postcompletion or financing

(17:47):
at your construction loan or calp ratesupon sale. You know, I don't
see tons of widening there because Ithink at the time of those dispositions or
those capital events, I think we'regoing to see you know, the fed
uh mid sort of dubbish site oramidst the more sort of dubbiest disposition,

(18:07):
which which should have an a creativeeffect on cap rates and you know interest
rates. UM. Yeah, Ithink that we're carrying a lot more contingency
on on our our cost number,which is obviously you know, having as
prior worth high as the acquisition ofexisting stabilize multi family existing stabilized assets over

(18:29):
the development of assets, particularly inthe short and then immediate medium term UM.
But you know, to that tothe to the same degree, you
know, as we're looking at existingassets or we're repricing our development pipeline,
UM. Like the most recent inflationdata and you see the rent growth is
actually one of the primary and contributorsto core inflation. As interest rates continue

(18:52):
to rise, you know, awhole ownership becomes increasingly increasingly more out of
reach for conventional Americans to the poolof available renters increases where its supply lags,
and so rent growth and sort ofrent growth assumptions or something that we
spend a lot of time off andyou know, making sure that hello,
we're not going to see it likeMiami every year where there's a fifty eight
percent spike um. But getting comfortablewith four or four and a half percent

(19:18):
annual rent growth at least, youknow, over the next three to five
years, is something that we cando and in some of the markets that
we're in at least, and it'sit's it's allowed us to continue to rationalize
and increasing our development pipelines. Sohopefully that answered your question. I mean,
we'll see what happens in like orthat's happening now from from a rate

(19:41):
standpoint, And Drew Rum's about totalk, so we'll get more clarity in
a few minutes. Now. Ithink I think you you you hit on
two major points that that we sawacross our business, let's say, like
almost across most markets that we serveas a company. But I know very
specifically to the to the small marketthat my team UH services here in the

(20:06):
Med Atlantic area where you know,you sort of saw initial pullback on rents
because you know, people were notmoving. Um, there was sort of
a pause in the rental market duringCOVID and then a huge push forward we
saw in some sub markets, um, you know, high teams from a

(20:26):
rent growth perspective in certain you know, neighborhoods or sub markets. Uh,
and then that you know, it'sdefinitely starting to slow. We saw some
people underwriting too, I don't know, like fifteen percent rent growth in year
one, you know, after buyingit to I don't I don't think that
that's truly sustainable. UM, yeah, I think that's I think that's fair.

(20:49):
Right. I also think you sawthe drawback um, you know to
uh to some for COVID era andperforms. Um, you've seen increasing is
in vacancy and collection laws and circumstanceswhere folks we're able to forego paying rant
or remain in place. I thinkthat you know, that's to some degree

(21:11):
rationalize multi family values in DC alittle bit, UM in conjunction with TOPA
to really reduce the viral pole UM, you know, and obviously as developers
and investors, I think we've gotto be attentive to the political dynamics associated
not just the economic dynamics, right, but the political dynamics of the markets
that we choose to invest in UMand begin to sort of more accurately price

(21:34):
and quantify those risks UM. Butyeah, I think, you know,
the DC market's fascinating because there's justso many really really interesting and reforceful competing
factors. I think, you know, on one hammer, and you have
artificial supply constraints, you've sort oframp and historic designations, which you know,
I think a lot of major ofan infil cities that have great histories

(21:56):
have, But you couple that withthe congressionally mandated Height Act where you can't
get over thirteen stories, and you'vegot just these to have this like big
downward pressure on supply. The samehand, your educational institution, you have
like robust cultural institutions. You havea very competent government that's created a safe
and livable, you know, urbanenvironment, so you have all of the

(22:19):
traffics of cities that just want togrow and burst at the seams um and
and so you know, with theartificial supply constraints right, pushing down supply
and the quality of life frankly,that's that's pushing up demand. You see
these big, big, big pricingspites, and you see DC sort of
have to reconcile with with an increasinglyunaffordable and you know, federally mandated frankly,

(22:47):
um affordable housing prices. And theydone an incredible job. You look
and Mayor Mouser has allocated more moneyon a per capita basis to affordable housing
subsidente in the following four states combined. I mean, that's that's absolutely bizarre.
Uh. It's just it's such anincredible commitment to preserving a Washington DC

(23:07):
that's socially, culturally, an economicallydiverse. And to me, I think
that's an incredible culture. Um.But you know, there's a lot to
fight against in Washington. Uh,with respect to Toba, with some of
the legislative reforms that to give moretowards you know, public policy initiatives aimed
at keeping people in place than allowingfirst room efficient transfer real estate. And

(23:30):
I don't I don't you know,I don't envy you right having to navigate
buyers through tobal process. You know, it's it's probably like banging your head
against the wall until money comes out. Yeah, no, absolutely, I
agree. I mean it. Uh. We we have had and you know
and currently have you know a numberof deals. Uh, they're still like

(23:51):
trapped in Toba. Um. Youknow, you won't you know, closest
time or you know, or havelong escort processes because of that process.
Um. You know, and withus even being a market leader sort of
in that space. Uh, it'sa hard work around. Now. I
want to also, you know,give you an opportunity to kind of brag
when you're a firm, and Iwould do some brag when you guys as

(24:11):
well. You know, for youguys being such a large national development firm
and owning deals all over the place. Typically those groups don't perform as well
in DC UM and have some sortof growing pains if they don't have as
large as a team boots in theground here. Um. And you guys
seem to have a very tight understandinguh and a lot of Q relationships in

(24:36):
the city that give you the abilityto strive here. Um. How have
you been able to do that sortof grow nationally and have the local marketplace
expertise. You guys have been ableto sustain in DC. Yeah. I
think I think two things, right. I think the first thing is it's
it's just like that post behind you, right, build long term relationships.

(24:57):
Right. I think it's yours,your say, build sustainable long term relationships.
Right. I don't know if that'swhat it says, but um,
you know, we got ad it. We gotta add it though. That's
what it is. Right is iswe um, whenever we enter a market,
we make a commitment to the market, to the policymakers in that market,

(25:18):
to our competitors in that market.That the one we're here to stay
too. We're here to conduct ourselvesethically, right, Um, And we're
we're focused on I'm certainly doing thebest for ourselves and do the best for
our investors. But I think righton next to that is doing the best
for ourk I mean that we talka lot about this concept of affirmative development.

(25:40):
I like to think of it ascompassionate development. Right is is that
we're developing within the contexts ommunities.And I think developers, uh, they're
followers more than they are leaders,right, And maybe Donald Trump and Zeale
Feldman and uh, you know someof those Harry mackla guys and trying to

(26:00):
disagree with me. And they thinkthat it's a developer's responsibility to sort of
like break down, you know,or if there show the people what it
is that they want. I thinkpeople's corps. I think you think the
opposite is true. I think welisten to communities, We listen to municipalities
about what they want, and wehave much more of a service mindset when
we attack projects. Right, it's, uh, you know, what can

(26:23):
we do, uh, in orderto satisfy your needs? And I think
doing that allows us to build thosesort of long term sustainable relationships that endure
through market cycles, through you know, changes in administrations, through successes,

(26:44):
and through some some pullbacks. Um. And then with respect the DC,
right and the Aaron DC is ourwhole town. I'm a fourth generation in
Washington and my dad was born inFreedman's Hospital, right. Uh. You
know, my great grandfather was theone of the founding pastors Georgetown First Baptist,
my grand or my great grandfather anothergreat grandfather which from my happye Baptist

(27:07):
where my you know, my grandmotheror my father. Uh, we're both
Baptist. Uh, that's this ishome for us, you know, um
so and and you mentioned my fatherfrom med second generation real estate person,
I'm third. My grandmother on myfather's side pool um was served on the
property attacks of Kilboard before my fatherdid. And who my father came and

(27:30):
worked for when you dropped out ofRuptors, Right, DC's you know,
DC's our home market. Right,we've been here for we've been there for
generations from him from in Miami todayvia DC in about two weeks. But
uh, you know this is ifany place his home, DC is home.
No, that's awesome, that's awesome. And and I love love the

(27:51):
plug there for Freeman's Hospital for thosewho don't know, Freeman's Hospital is currently
Howard University Hospital. Uh. Inmy my mom actually worked there for twenty
five years. I'm a Jorg Parkuh born in bred resident as well.
So I grew up right nice nicefor you be born in DC. Two

(28:11):
born in DC. I was atColumbia Hospital for Women, which is not
for women. It's not it's onlytwo options. There's only two options if
you're truly a Washingtonian. Yeah,you had to be going at hired Vestity
Hospital or Columbia Hospital for Women ifthe nineties, Yeah, right, Eric,
all my friends that are having kids, like where where? Yeah,

(28:33):
that's that's one of my first questions. So my sister from I'm from Washington,
d C, Washington will be bornat you know, it has to
be one of the two. Youcan't let these married people, right,
These nor Vigdia people kind of takevery DC culture the problem. And I
said that getting being born at ColumbiaHospital for Women but then being taken home

(28:57):
to Broad Branch for it for somethingMaryland. So maybe maybe we should maybe
I should they put that shot outbecause I should say no, no,
you got you see, I like, you know, maybe it makes me
keep the street alive and then whereverI live, right, like when my

(29:18):
wife is pregnant, you know,and now we're and it's getting close to
the end, she can't get onplanes for it's gonna like take damn track,
get ourselves up to DC and justkeep the street going, you know,
because and I say that in jests, but but really right Washington is
it's it's a place where our businesswas founded and it's probably the seat of
the most meaningful project I've ever workedon. You know, my dad's first

(29:42):
deal was twenty one hundred k.As you you're having set least one hundred
thousands worth of office building ninety sevenpercent release to district government. And we've
done some really exciting projects. Butthe most most impactful project that I've never
been a part is that one.We did it any Place renovation for Department

(30:02):
of Human Services a couple of yearsago. Um, and it was just
it's a small deal, um,you know, I think we didn't recap
like fifty five fifty million bucks.But working on the project that forty years
ago launched the firm, uh,you know, and and sort of being

(30:25):
able to kind of relive and rewalkthrough some of those places, just giving
me such an immense appreciation for forsort of all of work that's that's come
before me. And you know,it's it's really that's truly that that maybe
overused phrase I can only kind ofsee so far standing on the shoulder with

(30:45):
the giants. It's a DC man, I mean, it's it's home.
And actually we sort of diverted herebut got into a great point which I
think goes to some of your productsyou're doing East the River. We spoke
about Howard University Hospital and uh ColumbiaHospital for women. But I think currently
for uh, most African American residentsin Washington d c UH that you know

(31:11):
that live East the River, thatthere's literally I don't believe there's any hospitals
or sort of locations for for women. Uh. They're I'm not sure what
the exact terminology, you know,but basically for for giving birth, they
would have essentially have to you know, travel all the way to another part
of the city, uh to beable to have this service. So I
mean, with with some of thedevelopment problems, you're doing East the River
and you know and obviously want toincrease quality of life, UM, what

(31:36):
are you most excited for, Let'ssay, like you know, very hyper
specific to DC UH that you're seeingor you know, what sort of uh
what what sort of projects are youseeing? You know, maybe the city
the city make a push for whetherthat be grocery stores, hospital or anything
like that. Uh, as thecity continues to expand, to be able

(31:56):
to increase quality of life for someof these lower income residents that that you're
servicing your afforable housing business. Yeah, you know, look, I think
the affordable housing itself is is thething I'm most excited about. And the
districts for new commitment to affordable housing, I think, I think maybe maybe
there's there's two or three things we'retalking about there. I think the first

(32:19):
one is, you know, whenwhen you think of self actualization, you
know, I always think it sortof Padlow's hierarchy of needs, and the
very very foundation of that is shelter. Right they say, you die in
thirty days without food, you gotin three days without water, nine three
hours without shelter. Having a dignifiedand safe place to live is the foundation
for all achievement thereafter. And DC, through no fault of its own,

(32:45):
frankly, is dealing with, youknow, an immense amount of pressure to
keep you know, the city itselfaffordable because of the artificials apply con strength,
because of the high Act, andbecause it's done such a good job
in cultivating investment in infrastructure has madeit increasingly more and more challenging for regular

(33:09):
working families that have been in Washingtonfor generations to remain there. And the
allocation to of you know, asexual amount of money to the new construction
of affordable housing, UH is puttingDC in a place where it can it
can retain a lot of the culturethat's that's been eroded since you know,
since my father is there. Um. I think the second thing that I'm

(33:31):
excited about, right and and thisactually doesn't speak so I do do some.
I have two affordable housing projects eastof the river, I have one
west of the river. I'm goingto do more west of the river.
Is their commitment to geographic diversity ofthe affordable housing allocation. I think that's
a big, big, big thing. Um. You know, it's funny

(33:54):
you hear this a lot that it'snot your your race or your editor.
Um, that has the biggest predictiveinfluence on how much money you will make
UH in your lifetime. It's yourzip coo. Um, it's it's where
you live now. Obviously those thingsin a particular correlated race through the very

(34:15):
very sort of checker in American redlininghistory. UM. So security is still
out on how big a factor raceis. I think it's it's pretty clear,
big one. Um. But butzip code matters a heck of a
lot. And consolidating poverty right theeast of the River and consolidating affordable housing

(34:36):
east of the river doesn't produce thesocio economic outcomes that you hope for.
Right. Um, I think weall can agree that subsidize their income restricted
housing is it is it meant tobe permanent. Uh, it's it's meant
to satisfy that sort of foundational componentwithin law's hierarchy and needs so that folks

(34:58):
can you know, earn more moneyand and and put themselves in a position
to to move into market radehouse.Um. You know, and by by
locating in in sort of renewing commitmentto having affordable housing, uh, in
neighborhoods that are high or high commearning neighborhoods or neighborhoods that have high values

(35:20):
for homes, and in great publicschools. I think that you know,
the mayor and DC as a wholeis making a commitment to the upskilling and
the up earning of the most sociallyand economically disenfranchised residents. And so to
me, I think that what youhave there is two things that very very
rarely happen in American government. It'syou know, practically oriented political will outside

(35:45):
of party constraints, right, andsufficient funds allocated to the initiative to generate
the outcome it's proposed. And tome, I mean, it's just in
such a such a big win andsuch a it's such a strong, you
know, sort of commitment. It'sit shows that DCS really is city on

(36:07):
a hill and that it's it's showingthe rest of the country how to deal
with the most pernicious problem facing herein America today, which obviously has some
affordability full style. So we wedefinitely talked a lot about DC obviously about
DC guys, very active market foryour group, um it, I mean,
I guess I could imagine. Butwhat what I guess is h of

(36:30):
the markets you guys are actively activelyowned and actively building in. What what
market are you most bullish one?Uh? And what market you know do
you uh do you like the mostat this current position? So, I
mean, I I think I'm mostbullish on Miami. I don't think that's
a I don't get a unique opinion. I don't even want to spend that

(36:52):
much time on There are a lotof breaking bulish on Miami. Um you
know, you saw an article comeout in The Washington the other day talking
about miamis at the center of ahousing crisis. Um, with rampidly increasing
demand and you can't build the buildingeight months, so just not much folks
can do. Really, you're certainlyseeing a ton of cranes down here.

(37:14):
Um. You're seeing massive corporate relocations. Um. You know you're really um,
you know, sort of rioting thisthis inflection point where it's just becoming
it's becoming a global gateway city thatwas promised right in the same way to
London. I think the economic gameway to Europe in Hong Kong historically we'll

(37:35):
see sort of has been the economicgateway to the Asia. Um. Maybe
I'm seeing the force sort of pickedup that mantle. Um. I think
that Miami is going to be theeconomic gaateway to South America. UM and
uh, and I think that,you know, we're continuing to see the
metroration that market embolition almost across assetclasses in NAMI. It's just hard to

(37:59):
find a compelling Baron narrative. UM. Seems like you can't access my video
there we go, all right,maybe's back. Um, Yeah, it's
really tough to find a compelling barnnarrative in Miami. I'd say that that
you know, what's what's more interestingto me is that the reports of the

(38:20):
death of New York City were greatlyexaggerated. Obviously, New York's come back
and in a really really big way. UM. I think it's experienced,
you know, the lowest trough andnow one of the highest peaks, right
requests Um that the city's scene.Um. You haven't seen the same bounce
back in San Francisco, which isa little disappointing. UM. You know,

(38:42):
it's a beautiful city, but Ithink there's a lot to do with
some of the public policy initiatives ratherthan just real estate market fundamentals. Uh.
And then you know, I reallylike Boston. UM. We've seen,
you know, Boston be responsible forthree COVID vaccines, right in large
part it's the city that saved theworld. UM. And we're very very

(39:05):
bullish on life science, doing twobig life science buildings in Boston one and
the Level District Gail in the BackBay. Each has a mixed income or
one hundred percent affordable residential component associatedwith it. UM. And you know,
both I think represent really really funconstruction challenges coupled with you know,
really really sort of transformational developments.We're doing fifty thousands worth a feet of

(39:32):
biomedical research facilities or a life sciencespace in Boston's Back Bay. But we're
co locating in with the first onehundred percent affordable building in the Back Bay
m one hundred and twenty five unitsat sixty percent am I and below you
know, type one construction. Um, you know, and sort of working
through that process now. But youknow it's I love Boston's primary pop city

(39:57):
and country. It feels almost Europeanwhen you're there, and uh, wasn't
full of Patriots fans I moved there? No, I agree, I agree.
I think Uh, I think you'reyou're sort of synopsis for markets.
Uh, definitely ring shoot from whatI'm seeing as well. Um So,
I mean you touched on New Yorkobviously. You know you said, you

(40:22):
know, Miami sort of a gatewaycity for the United States. But you
know when you think of commercial realestate, uh, you think of New
York City. Um so, youguys, you gotta talk about this project.
Tallest sky spripper in New York City, nineties stories. Uh total project
also what three point six billion,uh something like that, three point three

(40:46):
point three. Yeah, when youget out there, Yeah, becomes a
rounding here alot, right, Uh, I think I think that's a that's
a transformational project, right, that'sthat's emblematic of of all that we've worked

(41:07):
for for variety of reasons, youknow, and you think of you know,
at least a right, I thinkof the New York City as as
sort of the it's the gateway toNorth America in the same way that I
mentioned Miami sort of the gateway toSouth America. New York City has been
that way for a long time.It's probably been the most important global city,

(41:29):
uh, you know, for fora hundred years now, maybe longer
in fact. You know, whenyou think of through the twentieth century cultural
achievements, they all trace back theirroots to New York City. You know,
when when you listen to to torap or R and B your rock
and roll, uh, you cantrace it back to New York. When

(41:52):
when you think there's some of ourgreatest poems, and some of our greatest
writers, and some of our greatestAmerican stories, they happen out of New
York City. You know, whenwhen you think of when when you go
abroad, right, and not justto Paris in London, right, but
to tune it is and a sawerain Delhi. You know, um and

(42:12):
and and you have you ask folksfor what they know about America. The
first thing they say to New Yorkand it's it's, uh, it's our
most important city, a large partand what we don't have, right?
And what are what people think aboutwhen when you talk about New York City
you see the graffiti, it's it'snot a big apple, you know,
it's not Maryland and Rose Face.It's the skyline, right, it's the

(42:35):
Empire State Building. And when youthink of all of the contributors across all
the cultural components of New York,it's very easy to name black names and
to see black faces. When you'llget the Skyline and you think about New
York City, it's not surprising toknow that there's not a single skyscraper built
by somebody black. There's not asingle skyscraper south of one hundred and twenty

(42:58):
fifth Street that's owned by somebody black. Not a single skyscraper that's built by
a black owned general contractor. Right. And there's one skyscraper that's built by
a that's designed by a black architectthat David and jab working with us.
And you say to yourself, Like, that's an institutional and cultural film,
right, That's a failure of NewYork City, and that's a product of

(43:21):
in large part, institutional fetters associatedwith the economic enfranchisement of Black Americans.
And we want to change that.We want to demonstrate that, you know,
just like out of the way,but a great depression. The Empire
State Building is built and out ofthe wake of nine to eleven one World
Trade was built, out of thewake of COVID affirmation towers built. And

(43:45):
it makes two merrits, right,One is that New York City is back,
and two is that New York Cityis back for all New Yorkers,
not just the chosen people. Absolutely, absolutely, So then let's we're gonna
cut away from some of the realestate questions for a quick second. Uh,
you know, obviously, Um,there's some intangibles that you know sort

(44:09):
of gotten you to this position.You spoke about lobbya upgrooming up, upbringing
and sort of the business lessons yougot from your father and commercial estate math
things of that sort. But whatwhat's your what's your why here? Like,
what what drives you uh to youknow, wake up and ring the
bill every day? Um? Andand do some of the things that you're

(44:30):
doing. Yeah, yeah, youknow, Um, I'm galvanized, you
know, in large part by thechallenge, right Um. I love the
business. I love when I do. I love solving complex problems. To
me, you know, it's it'shard to unity office, right Like,

(44:51):
I really like doing this I lovekind of being in the thick of it
a little bit. I love,you know, uh, being close to
the dirt and navigating and I thinkreally really complexible, fascinating issues of the
business. I mean, it's I'dbe lying if I told you that I
wasn't motivated by you know what,what my father's accomplished and continuing on the

(45:14):
family legacy. That's a big driverfor me, right Um. Particularly you
know when when you're born to asuccessful parent, there's there's a lot of
pressure to put on you. AndI've never been one to shy away from
that. I like, you know, grabbing the bowl by the horns here
and you know, showing up andattacking every day, um, and doing
the best that I can. Ithink that I think that I've always been

(45:38):
the kind of person that it goeswith all it into something. I really
struggled doing things halfway and and andthis is a different you know, I'm
blessed to have found something whether it'snature and nurture that I love. And
I'm a competitive guy, so beingthe best at it, uh and doing

(46:00):
something that you know is isn't itgood for society? In my mind?
Two things that's just you know,I kind of keep you going late into
the evening and like that earlier morning. Also also and outside of commercial real
estate, you know what other thingsyou're working? You mentioned golf? I

(46:22):
I see from social media, youknow, a big thing you and you're
for you and your dad is youknow it's cars. Uh. What other
sort of hobbies do you have,like you know, outside of the office,
and you know what like other goalsdo you have professionally or from Alanthuh
you know philanthropy standpoint outside of commercialreal estate? Uh, you know you'd

(46:43):
love our listeners to kind of havean understanding for you about Yeah, yeah,
absolutely, I mean I think it'san amateur boxer for a while,
I fought in Florida Gold Gloves intwenty twenty in twenty twenty twenty twenty one,
I fought in twenty twenty one.It was my last year, um
really competing and I love boxing.Uh I think that, you know,

(47:06):
it's work slows down and travel slowsdown, I'll pick it back up and
trying to make another run for it. Um golf, I'm trying to pick
up and get better at um asa basketball player, as a kid.
So you know, it's the extentthat I can get out there and get
a little running. And I'm happyto um. But for me, I
mean, you know, uh,this is this is what what I sort

(47:30):
of live and die with, right, I mean, this is this is
where I spent my time. Work. Working is my hobby in large part.
They're aspects out of it. Obviouslythey are a little boring, but
you know, uh, this iswhere I spend the time of my time.
I used to be a big,a big reader, you know when
I was when I was in college, I didn't have TV or internet in

(47:51):
my apartment and so I read alot. Um makes me really pretentious to
tell parties, you know, Iquote a little Shakespeare, quote a little
tests and um, I was intoan audiobook here and there. But you
know, uh, it's it's lessand less these days. I gotta get
my head, you know, outof Tulsay and into operating areas absolutely absolutely,

(48:13):
and then jumping jumping back into reallystay just to wrap things up here.
Uh, you know, for ourlisteners here. Uh you know that
that heard your story, heard aboutyour firm. Uh you heard about a
lot of the great products you guysare doing. How how can they invest
with you? Um? And youknow, how can they sort of be
a partner in the people's corporation business. Yeah, I think that's a great

(48:37):
question. Um. Yeah, Ithink that the first and foremost we really
don't take uh, you know,retail capital. Um, that's something that
we're working on. UM. Iknow that the most of Great SIL lists
and listeners are probably you know,institutional investors to some degree. UM.

(49:00):
You know, at this point,we cast a wide net on you know,
two LPs. We are some groupsthat we really like, we've worked
with for a long time. Wehave some sort of programmatic structures that we've
worked through. UM. But I'mopen to any conversations you know for us.
Uh, if it's not this dealis the next one. If it's
not this structure, it's the nextone. We want to make sure that

(49:21):
we're having any and every conversation.UM. So folks can't absolutely reach out
to me. I'm very liberal aboutgiving out myself phone number. I'll do
it right now, right, Uh, you know, giving a call three
zero five seven five three one fivetwo four, um, and we can
roll from there. Absolutely absolutely loveit. It's a little a little Mike

(49:43):
Jones. Uh and yeah, andwhat what would you say separates your firm
from you know, other developers orsponsors? So uh, you know if
not saying you know, look,we can get to a higher uh you
know, equity multiple r than thanthe next guy. You know, like

(50:04):
what what what makes uh investors moneysafer with you guys than than with the
next guy. Well, look,I mean I think our our investment strategy
is different than everybody else's. Youknow where exist in a very very unique
mission. Right we uh buy landfrom municipalities and we repurpose them to private
muss u. We you know,we like it for a variety of reasons,

(50:28):
right, Um. But the firstand foremost is that, unlike you
and I, municipalities aren't you know, land speculatives. Right, they don't
just care about selling the land forthe highest price. Uh, they care
about the public policy initiatives that areassociated with disposition of publicly owned property.
And in that respect, we're ableto craft projects and win deals without being

(50:52):
the highest price, something that shereally can't do with consistency in the private
market. Um. And so youknow we can we sit here and we
get our land differently, We cultivateour projects differently, We work with you
know, municipalities as partners as opposedto adversaries. Right when you know,
when developers think of cities, theythink of, oh my gosh, how

(51:14):
difficult for permitting processes, how difficultthe entitlement processes. You know, for
us, we're doing something that's themission online with their whole to accomplish.
And so you know, we reallylook at the one of the biggest betters
in the development process as an allyand an advocate. Um. So when
you think about about how you allocateyour capital, and when you think about

(51:35):
development risk, particularly preconstruction, youknow, we're doing something that's that's not
only you know, like slightly,it's not slightly different from what other folks
to do. It's a different sport, um. You know. And in
that respect, we're thinking about theversification. It's just hard not to think
about coming over to ourselves awesome,awesome, Well, thank you, I

(51:55):
appreciate the time today, Dawn.I'm gonna leave you one more question,
UM, for the aspiring black commercialreal estate entrepreneur. UH. You know,
let's say, assuming who wants todo your business. They want to
you know, they want to bea developer, they want to do large
scale projects. What would you sayyou're seeing as the largest hurdle uh for

(52:17):
that individual group of individuals today.So our our our group at Great Steal
Black Professionals Network were working diligently withcfis and equity providers U as well as
banks to be able to sort ofpiece together and get a higher access to
capital for uh, for black developersand sponsors to be able to go and

(52:40):
do larger deals, UH, tosort of take them into the institutional space.
UM. What what would you sayyou're seeing for Let's say that investor
thats stuck in between the one tofifty million dollars space and they want to
go and they want to do largerdeals, but are having an uh an
inability or sort of struggle to beable to find scale. Uh, you

(53:02):
know, because of some sort oflike glass ceiling, if you will,
in the industry. Yeah, Ithink the verse right, But that's that's
not a unique problem. I thinkthat, um, that a lot of
growing for a small event sized firmshave that issue moving from the friends and

(53:22):
family or from sort of ultra highnet worth or high net worth a pod
syndications to more institutional platforms. Wereally really are, um. I think
it's even harder, uh where froman economically disenfranchised background, it's it's harder
as a minority, it's harder asa woman. Uh. And so you
see the intersectionality in that respect.UM. So i'd say, you know,

(53:43):
what we found is that raising capitalis never easy, um. And
it's it's hard as part even atour scale. What what we've also found,
uh is at persistent space, um, and that you know, in
this business you can you're no.Ninety nine times here, yes once you
just capitalized. And so you know, we're aggressive, we're thoughtful, and

(54:07):
our underwriting, we're persistent in ourbuilding of relationships and hopefully it's in those
practices that that coalesce and then createsome sort of positive outcome. Awesome,
awesome, thanks, thank you forit's time today, Dawn. We appreciate
you having a great cast and uhyou know look look forward to watching you
guys continue to grow. Produced byHeartcast Media