October 24, 2025 • 50 mins
As with many communications I received during my examination of the Zodiac Killer writings, an anonymous stranger dropped the Ramsey Ransom note off to me via email, and disappeared. The murder of Jon Benet Ramsey was worldwide news that many media outlets profited from. The media was weaponized against the Ramsey family. Boulder police are mostly to blame for false news leaks and the perpetuation of destroying this family. Why? This is the question of the century…
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Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
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(00:22):
the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any
suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
I'd like to welcome to the show today. Lindsay mcbrair. Hey, Hey,
I'm excited we're finally here. I know, I feel like
every time I do a pre record, I'm so out
(01:13):
of whack and then so excited when I come back.
I'm not sure I'm not going to stumble over my
own words. Oh yeah, Oh my goodness. So we are
now just going to climb into Nora's diary in nineteen
well it's the end of nineteen ninety five, of course,
and it says nineteen ninety six dress begins. So I
(01:33):
kind of want to remind everybody that the John Binney
Ramsey note came to me again from an anonymous person
who slipped in, dropped the letter off, made probably some
small talk, and was gone and out the door again.
And when they dropped that letter off, of course, it
looked much like the Zodiac communications in a lot of ways.
It had similarities to both the Atlanta, Georgia child killer cases.
(01:57):
Many of the different notes that we saw the Channel
nine newsletter. There were just so many different communications that
the elusive disguised handwriting was consistent with. And when I
got to the third page, I actually found formations of
letters that were in fact what I know Jack to
write like. And I perceived that to be a misdropping
(02:24):
of letters, if you will, because it literally when you're
learning to work with disguised handwriting, and especially if it's
of any type of length, people will naturally revert at
some point in time back to their own handwriting, unbeknownst
to themselves, because it's very taxing on the brain to
keep up a disguise. So when we're working with disguised handwriting,
(02:44):
we start at the bottom and work backwards. And in
that very last paragraph on John Benet Ramsey's ransom note,
we saw some letters that were not consistent with the
rest of the formations throughout the letter, and they look
much more natural, which I'm sure everybody will agree once
we get there. So after examining this handwriting, I took
it to Dennis and I talked with Dennis about it,
(03:05):
and he said, no way to net You're wrong. Jack
could not have been part of this. He was with
us in California in during Christmas and the holidays, so
there's no way he could have done this. So I
kind of took that with a grain of salt. Okay, well,
maybe there are the people out there that are using
some of the formations like Jack. I kind of set
it a side when about my research looking through more
(03:28):
of the belongings, and I stumbled across this nineteen ninety
six diary of Nora. So on November eleventh, we know
that Jack takes the family, Charles and Nora to California
for the holidays because not only is it Thanksgiving, but
it's also Charles's birthday. And then of course they were
to stay all the way through the holiday season, which
(03:49):
was kind of strange because with Jack's mom in a
care home, he up and leaves when we know he
has this kind of perverse love for his mother, where
he's constantly back there. He wanted to be the man
of the house at one point when his father died,
and he wanted to sleep in her bed, was the
story that I was told. Now, I don't know how
much of that is true, but it kind of shows
(04:11):
what they presumed, or at least profiled in the zodiac cases,
that there was a perverse love for his mother. Yeah,
so why he would up and leave during the holidays
of what may potentially be her last holidays on Earth
kind of sets a different example for me, right, I mean,
you would think that you would want those last minutes,
(04:32):
those last moments, And so what we're going to talk
about in this story also seems a little odd in
the fact that a he was willing to take the
family out of the state where Mom is being you know,
keptain in a nursing home away from her, and into California.
At the same time he then picks up and leaves.
And that's what we're going to talk about today. So
(04:54):
diary is headed by what.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Right no California for the calf and Charles's birthday on
November twenty fourth, girl's birthday Birthdake Carl I.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
Don't know why but it seems sounds muffled. I'm not
sure if if it's just mayor I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Is that better? Are you not able to hear me?
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, yeah, that did it?
Speaker 4 (05:29):
That helped.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Okay, So Charles's eighteenth birthday, they had birthday cake on
November twenty fourth and ice cream for Charles. Garrett was
there at Denny's. And I'm not sure what it's a
oh Dennis enjoys now. On November twenty seven, three days
after Charles's birthday, she labels this, Jack had to go
back to Texas today. Got a fax from Dolores. Granny
(05:53):
wasn't doing so good. She was combative and confused, wasn't herself.
Jack was worried about her. He went back. Charles and
I stayed in California. So that tells a different story.
Right now, we've got a concern to Jack going back
to Texas for his mom, but he wasn't to concern
Jack when he left to take the family away for months,
(06:13):
not just a couple of days to California. His intentions
were to stay there all the way through New Year's Eve. Basically,
So I'm kind of back and forth. And you can
also see this green writing that's coming up here on
the right hand side, that literally is bleeding through the
backside of the paper. We go to talk about, Yeah,
we're going to talk a bit about that because there's
(06:34):
some dating inconsistencies in this diary. There's some additions. It
looks like she literally filled this out after the fact.
So I'm not sure how well we can actually trust
some of the information that we're seeing, but i just
want you guys to know that this was literally it's
like she goes back and writes a week and a half,
two weeks later, or even in some cases much later,
(06:55):
as we're going to see in here, based on the
way this is set up and that this is being written.
So I'm believe and it could.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Be that, like couldn't you know, maybe it's not nefarious,
because I mean there's been times where I've uh, you know,
wrote in my journal when I'm journaling and I've forgot
a couple of days or like a week because I
just and I just like put it off and put
it off, and then I'm like, Okay, I gotta go
back and fill in that.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
You know what I'm saying. But are you feeling back
in or are you just adding to at that point, saying, oh,
by the way, last week this happened.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Well now, yeah, but I feel like I would I
usually would say forgot to notate what happened this or
what I found out on this week and this day,
because I always put the dates on my research and stuff,
so you know, I would definitely say something on those lines,
you know.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Okay, So it looks to me like she almost even
pre set some dates in here if this were the case,
because we have the top of the next page of
the diary on November twenty eighth of nineteen ninety six.
Then the very next date after that actually says and
I know you're going to see them more predominant overwriting,
which is the sixteenth, but this actually says December twenty five,
(08:10):
nineteen ninety six. Then she goes bashing back. Yes, then
she goes back and back dates it to the sixteenth.
And I don't know that this is her overwriting. I'm
assuming that it is. But again here we see more
of this green writing that has been obviously added after
the fact, So she is clearly not even finishing consistent
(08:33):
thoughts when she writes things down. So it says December
twenty fifth, And I want to say personally with if
I wrote down, if she didn't pre write the dates,
let's say November twenty eighth for Thanksgiving December twenty fifth,
maybe she thought these were the only entries that she'd
write in there, and she preached that in but then
came back and corrected it. So I'm giving some leeway
(08:54):
here and playing devil's as.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
I was gonna say too, like she maybe just wrote
down the next dates for her next writings.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Right, but nobody confuses December twenty fifth, right, now, that's
not a date we mess up. That is a date.
So we also see over here to the right, December
twenty fifth, Christmas Day again, So she wrote down December
twenty fifth, then came back and wrote the sixteenth. It
says Jack comes back to California, got sick for two weeks,
(09:24):
flew and cold. We are staying now. The added part
after the fact, in a different pen color, is we
are staying till around one fifteen ninety seven. So Jack,
and this is one of Dennis's reasonings for why he
believed that Jack was with him during this whole entire time,
as he said that Jack got sick and he vividly
(09:45):
remembers having to move Jack. He actually was evicted from
his apartment or his place at this particular point in time,
and he Enjoyed needed to find a new place, and
on Christmas Eve they were forced to move, and he
said the first thing he moved was a bed to
the new place to put Ja in it, because Jack
was too sick to be up and around and moving.
(10:05):
So I'm just gonna read the portions of this diary
and then we'll take it from there. So on November
twenty eight, Thanksgiving, had dinner at Dennis and Joy's, just
the four of us, Charles, Me and Dennis and Joy.
Dennis got mad at Joy. Joy went upstairs, upset. I
went outside upset. Also a nice dinner ruined. This is
a very obviously toxic family, always having some types of
(10:30):
issues or it least me an ability to get along.
And it doesn't make any sense. Why. Well, I know
Dennis so.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Well, and I think that also it has to do
with so many different things going on, and once that
it creates conflict, right like so and so's got this,
and so and says got this, and so one says
got this. And they're trying to do every like like
it's like chaotic because if everyone wanted to do something
or having to do something at the specific tom.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Well, and it may be in the stress of them
being evicted and having to get out that you know,
everybody is upset and fighting. I don't know when they
received the eviction notice. This seems rather early on November
twenty eighth for it to be a thirty day notice,
and they moved on December thirty first, But anything's possible, so.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Then, and they been on the train. They did it
on Christmas Eve. That's crazy. That was a main landlord, right,
I mean, that's the first thought I had, like, wow,
you can wait till after Christmas.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
You know what's interesting is I'm not even sure that
her diary reflects this move. But as we go through it,
I'm rereading it, basically for the first time in about
ten eleven years since the first time I read it
and put it into this presentation, I haven't touched it since.
But so that has been changed. From December twenty fifth
to December sixteenth, Jack comes back to California, got sick
(11:53):
for two weeks. On December eighteenth, Dennis and Joy have
been evicted. Okay, so now we see when the eviction
from the house on fair Oaks have to be moved
out in it says in five days, and that would
have made it. That would have made it before Christmas. Yeah, yeah,
that had made it. Yeah. See, so there's something really
wrong with these date sequences. I'm telling you, guys, some
(12:15):
of this stuff is not making any sense. So December
twenty second, Jack is at the new house. She's properly
dated that five days forward. On the twenty second, Dennis
and Joy and Charles been working round the clock, mostly
trying to get out of the old house and into
the new one. Now, Dennis's recollection was that this occurred
(12:36):
on New Year's Eve. So we are now looking at
a journal which a she did not do on the
dates in which it actually occurred. She went back and
filled in a bunch of stuff, then went back and
refilled things in and changed dates on stuff. So December
twenty fourth, got the tree back up, yesterday was up
in the old house, moved it in the car. Geneva's birthday,
(12:58):
got her a cake, they came over, went to Connie's.
I believe it says four get together was good. December
twenty fifth Christmas Day, Dennis, Joy and Charles gone somewhere.
This morning, Jack and I went to Dawn's and Eileen's
(13:19):
I visit a while. We couldn't find anything open for dinner,
so went home and ate only thing there was to
eat in the house, top Ramen. Later on, Dennis and
Joy and Charles opened Let's see if I've got that next. Nope, okay.
I didn't continue after that because I was really focusing
in on this particular entry in the diary. But this
(13:42):
definitely solidifies that Jack was gone for basically a month
from everybody, we see these calls that are happening to
Colorado while he's gone. We also see his cell phone tracking.
We're going to get to here in a minute. So
the December fifteenth rewritten as December sixteenth again. And I'm
not sure who makes these types of errors. If Nora
(14:05):
always wrote in journals, as Dennis said, why did Jack
only keep nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety six, which
is a very big you know, read, Harry, I guess
if you will. For these cases, these prove a move
and his place of employment. During other unsolved murders, mishaps
and coincidences, there's enough time while he's gone to create
(14:26):
the Ramsey Ransom note, which many people have agreed was
a very lengthy note that was like that likely took
some time to actually write. And I do know that
they mentioned that he had started this letter more than
once on that pad of paper. They were able to
prove that, probably with an ZDA machine which maps out
(14:47):
indentations in the paper, so that they could actually see
that it had been written more than once. We know
that Jack returns terribly sick, and then Dennis and Joy
makes that move. Dennis recollects, like I said, moving on
New Year's Eve. But these these entries differ if you
if you played with this, and I say, if you
(15:08):
played with this, if December twenty fifth was the day
that Jack actually returned, which was Christmas Day, and they
were given a five day notice that would have them
moving out on what day? December thirty first.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Guinness is recollection more valid in the math maths.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
So I'm wondering at what point were these changes done.
Was this something somebody else executed. Was this something that
she went back and redid? But her recollection and what
she wrote down is being written at a time after
the fact. Obviously, based on what we're seeing. So let's
(15:51):
see here. So we do still see that the phone
bill at this point in time is labeled John W.
Terrence with an E instead of an A. And we
get to see the phone calls that he's making from
his cell phone as he's leaving out of California, So Stockton, California, Bakersfield, California,
this is his normal pathway on down to southern California
(16:13):
and then he exits off to the east. So we
also see incoming calls and calls made on a on
a calling card, which I almost forgot about those darn things,
but I had to. I'm like, what is cl These
are calling cards that are being used attached to the
actual bill or the phone number that Southwest was handling.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Well, would he do just buy extra minutes?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Well, I think back in the day when you had
a calling card, Yes, you would put minutes on the
calling card or if that call, if you used and
punched in a particular number, it just automatically build it
to that phone billy, whether you so you could get
a calling card at the local liquor store or the
seven eleven or something like that and put minute on it.
(17:00):
But if you had a valid account with a cellular company,
then that calling card number was available for you to use,
and it just attached it to that bill. And that's
what we see. Gola was here and of course he's
John Terrence on here. We're flip flopping back and forth.
Remember John Jack, John Jack. Here is additional and this
(17:21):
is the thirtieth through the eighth. We see that there
are phone calls from the cellular phone that are still
reaching out to Texas and calling cards that are calling
out to Texas. So it tells me that at least
on the eighth of December, that Jack is definitely still
in Texas. So November and December nineteen ninety six, activity
(17:43):
I want to see did we have we had Colorado here,
but this looks like time on December third? And again,
why keep these cell phone bills? And some of this
stuff seems rather ridiculous to have kept for.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
If I remember, yeah, keeping it is different, But I
do remember back in the day whenever I first got
a cell phone, and before you could put it put
your paperless, you could do paperless. They would send you
the bill with all this information on. It was like
a big I remember the packet was like this big.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Huge, Yeah, but why why keep this of all things?
You know what I'm saying. It just doesn't it. He
didn't keep every bill. We do see the ones he kept,
but they seemed to be, like I said, red herrings
that literally flought out his movements and where he's at
and what he's doing. Just in case, yeah, just in case.
And of course we also see that there are calls
(18:40):
still being made to Lacey Washington, which is where Mary
and her family was, so we know that she is
not And I had originally assumed that there was a
possibility that the Boulder Colorado or the Colorado numbers were
associated with a time frame in which Mary's husband Rick
was incarcerated in Colorado, in which case she moved to Colorado,
(19:00):
So I thought, oh, well, there's a chance that he
could have been dialing them there. But you've now settled
that for us with your research on the phone numbers
and by seeing that Lacey was Washington is still being
called and knowing that that's where a Mary was b
where Nora was sent to when Jack went back home
to take care of Mom in her final months or
year or whatever it was, that they are still currently
(19:22):
in Washington. Then we see this bill on twelve ten
of ninety six, which is paid by Jack. He writes
the date twelve ten, nineteen ninety six, which means he
is at least still in Texas as of twelve ten,
nineteen ninety six, and this is to the Nelda Street address.
Why he's not staying in mom's house, I don't know.
I don't know if he sold it after he got
(19:43):
the power of attorney. I don't know why he's in
any place other than where his mom was living before
she went into the home either. Yeah, the Southwestern Bell.
Why did I have this here? Twelve three of ninety six,
So we have money charges and roaming charges, so obviously
(20:04):
he is not in his local quality. Yeah, we used
to have roaming charges on our cell phone. So if you, yeah,
remember the one down to the Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
It was like, uh, it would do the roaming if
you were like in the rural area where.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
There's out of because before there was like specific areas
in which your cell phone was good and it wasn't
like it was oh all of California, and you would
get roaming charges if you were out of that area.
So on December twenty fifth of nineteen ninety six, John
Binney Ramsay is found dead in her family home in Boulder, Colorado.
(20:39):
We're going to talk first about hers, and then I
want to make a quick comparison to something I do
believe Jack is involved with, and that is the murder
of Dagnan in nineteen forty six, which nineteen ninety six
is almost a fifty year anniversary. And I know that
we've made some coincidences with one hundred year anniversaries with
(21:00):
Lincoln and some other assassinations and things like that, but
I just find this to be super coincidental that it
is also revolving around what I believe is politics and
bad people. And again same with the John Bena Ramsey case.
So John B. And A Ramsey was six years old.
She was strangled with a tourniquet using a broken handle
of the paint rush. The brush portion was found in
(21:23):
Patsy's art supply tub, but the bottom third of the
paintbrush was never found. So was this taken as a trophy?
And if it was never found, if she hadn't explained
that it had already been broken and that piece was
gone somewhere, I think we would have we would have
heard about that. That would have been a Oh, she
knew that paint brush was broken, that's why she tossed
it into the basement. And then the culprit, you know,
(21:45):
used another third of it and left the other third behind.
But there's just stating outright that the bottom third of
that paint brush was never found, as if it should
have been beaten on the head, half dressed. The underwear
that she was wearing too big, She had ligatures on
her wrist. There are claims that she was sexually violated
(22:06):
with the object or the paintbrush, or at least a
portion of it. They had found pineapple in her stomach
and a bowl of fruit left in the kitchen glass
with a tea bag found in it. And mind you,
the Ramseyes indicated they didn't drink tea, so whoever was
there had themselves a glass of tea, and by all means,
I found out much later that one of Jack's favorite
(22:28):
drinks was tea. Suspects by time in the home previous
to Ramsey's return. The ransom note was found on the
back stairwell leading up from the kitchen area, and the
body was found in the basement. There were shoe prints
that were obtained a suitcase found next to a broken
window at the basement level. Suspect knew personal information about
the Ramseys. A sharpie pen that was used was older
(22:51):
and obsolete than the ones the rest of them found
in a cup, so evidently the notepad itself and the
sharpie pen were perceived to have been those of Patsy Ramsey's,
which was one of the reasons they attempted to blame her,
But if somebody had spent any amount of time in
her house, there was also sorry. There was also a
break in in the Charlevoi, Michigan house in which items
(23:13):
like a horse rope and other things were found in
John ben Ay Ramsey's room at that home, which that
could have been where they had taken the notepad or
the sharpie pen. Either way, the pen that was found
to be used on this ransom note was older and obsolete,
but found in a cup of new sharpie pens, so
it could have been taken as an older obsolete pen
(23:35):
from the Charlott Boy house and then dropped at And.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Is that that's the little girl that she went to
dance class with?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Who's that?
Speaker 4 (23:46):
There was another break in of a little girl in
that area that she went to dance with, that she
went to dance class with. Is that the same residence.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
In Charlotte Boy? Oh no, not no, Charlotte Boy, Michigan.
All right, So early on in the presentation I put
forth a picture that was in Jack's belongings, and it's
him driving down the highway and in the picture the
frame that he took of a billboard that mentions the
nuclear power plant in Charlevoi, Michigan. Charlotte, Michigan is the
(24:19):
second home of John Ramsay.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Okay, okay, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
So you see my connection there. Why is he keeping
a picture of a nuclear power plant board? And it
doesn't it's not time consistent with when he was. So
the picture was color, it was all the things that
were much newer than the nineteen sixty two sixty three
time that we know he spent in General Electric in
San Jose's nuclear power plant. Because we see those pictures
(24:47):
professionally taken by probably some of the top photographers, because
they were doing basically a memento of congratulating Jack for
having created the water waste machine for nuclear waste and
that they had patented it. So Jack had written on
the back that they patented that in nineteen sixty two
(25:09):
sixty three. Clearly black and white photos not consistent with
this color photo of the Charlotte Boy, Michigan that we found.
So we have that connection to Charlotte Boy, which again,
why this picture, why this billboard? Yea, And so let's see.
And then the house, the house in Charlott Boy, Michigan
was broken into, and there were items left there that
(25:30):
did not belong to the family and was not recognized.
And one of those happened to be like an a lasso,
a horse rope, and then I'm not sure what other
things that it's been so long since I actually reviewed
this case, and Terry Batcher unfortunately lost his right to
be on this show, but he knows more about this
case than anybody. So some of the things on here
are information that he had given me during that time,
(25:53):
and maybe we'll come across that. So the letter was
written on a note pad found in the Ramsey home.
She was covered in a white blanket, and there was
a rabbit left at the grave. And the rabbit issue
is brought up because of course we have the white
rabbit and rabbit issue, Jack rabbit, all the things that
you know coincide with some of the motives and the
communications of uh the zodiac.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
Now, Louise Spring, you did, you did, and you didn't
mention the window, the window thing, the broken window. But
Ramsey said that he had broken it because he got
locked out of the house or something, and it was
it had been like that. So he was pretty much
claiming that no, that that no one got through there.
(26:40):
That's old. And then and then this one investigator is like, oh, well, yeah,
this is definitely an old break because of the cobwebs
and blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Right right, but the window in the picture of the
photographs that are found, we're gonna see, oh, we see it.
Actually right here, we can see that this window. Oh, Greg,
go back, we can see the this window is absolutely open.
So I would presume that at any point in time
that they went down there to take those pictures, and
they would have taken those pictures. Forensics teach you to
(27:10):
take your pictures on your way in so that you
don't disturb or mess anything up. Now, if this picture
was taken by law enforcement, that windows wide open, and
there's a suitcase next to the wall in order to
get back up and out and louse Smidt, one of
the detectives, was yeah, yeah, he She showed how it
was completely possible to not disturb any of those things,
(27:31):
climb through that window and get inside. Your only issue
would be getting back out. And I suspect that that's
why the suitcase, which I believe also had dirt prints
on it, was used for the suspect to get back
out of the house. Now one of the.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Real quicks were on the window real quick. Yeah, So
so I brought that up because also in the Darla
case in Texas where they say that she killed her
kids and then blah blah blah. If we covered last week,
there was also a window found broken, but it was
(28:08):
the they used the knife to slit the screen and
that and they are they say there's no footprints outside
the window, and that that it was pre stage like
that because it because then they found the fibers of
that screen on the on the knife. So the parallels
to this case. It being in nineteen ninety six, right
(28:32):
that little one of their little boys was six, John
Benet was six. There's the the numbers. They you know,
they used the symbolism. But I just thought that was
very weird. A weird parallel, So.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
I would suppose and I'm only guessing before and they.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Also used the weapon inside of a house as just
as uh found in John.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, yeah, I would think that it'd be highly complicated
from the time that Arley picked up the phone. They
said that one of the children would have bled out
in six minutes and or in eight minutes, and Darlee
was on the phone with the nine to one to
one for approximately six minutes. So they are now accusing
her during that time of having ran and stashed the
(29:16):
sock tipped over things over the top of bloody prints.
Now you're telling me that they staged a window by
cutting that screen in order to make it look like
somebody has gotten And that's a whole lot of cover
up going on inside of six minutes while she's on
the phone with the police department. So I'm in shock.
(29:37):
She's bleeding as well, you know, she's near cut to
to the ephemeral artery or not I'm sorry, artery in
her neck and literally stabbed in the arms. And of
course we saw that the bruising that came from that,
there had to be a massive amount of blood loss
form her and we see the blood all over the
places she's running around trying to grab towels. So if
she's running around trying to grab towels to assist her children,
(30:00):
how is she doing all of this cover up stuff
inside that timeframe? It really doesn't make a lot of sense.
But another one of the things that I tracked this
back to was one of the earlier killings during the
Black Dollia era, in which Louise Springer was sexually assaulted
with a branch or a stick from a bottlebrush tree
and this cord was used to bind her hands, which
is a continued mo We see this use of clothesline cording.
(30:24):
This happens to be a parachute cord. I'm going to
talk a little bit about that, but as you go through,
you see that them os are just so similar. And
now let's just touch on Dagnan real quick. So Suzanne
Dagnan was killed in nineteen forty six. Her father was
one of the CEOs of the Price Administration, or not
a CEO, he was just like a head executive of
(30:45):
the Price Administration who set pricing on milk and meats
and things like that. He had been accused of sending
rancid meat to the Indians in their reservations, basically starving
them to death. There was this whole black market meat
thing going on. There was a lot of politics wrapped
around it. We had some butcher out there that was
killing somebody and this six year old yeah, yeah, this
(31:08):
six year old little girl ends up being beheaded, dismembered.
Her body parts are deposited in the storm drains, and
one of those storm drains happened to be on Hollywood Boulevard,
which was a cross connection to the bisection done on
Black Daulia, who was filmed on Dagnan or near Dagnan
Way in Hollywood. So there's just so many things that
(31:31):
are overlapping, like what are the chances that these things
could be happening unless one person knew all of these
different mixes. So there was a ransom note also found
for Susan Dagnan. She was also a six year old
blonde little girl. She was taken from her bedroom window.
They indicated that they left a ransom note in her bed,
(31:53):
and that ransom note indicated we would give her back
if you paid her a X amount of money. So
here we also have this ransom note with Susan with
John Benny Ramsay, which says they're asking for a ransom
and she'll be returned, but be careful, she may be beheaded.
So now they're actually referring to a specific bifurcation or
a bisection that was done to Susan Dagnan and then
(32:15):
lo and behold, both of these little girls were dead
by the time the ransom note was even found, so
there was never any intention to ransom them whatsoever. It
all makes it look like it's some type of a
setup or cover up in the end. Either way, there
was far too many coincidences, and the fifty year anniversary
of these two murders, I'd be so would be.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
I would like to see both of those ransom notes
beside each other.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
I talk about lipstick killing cases all the way back
in nineteen forty five and nineteen forty six, and this
is another timeframe in which Dennis and the FBI told me, Nanette,
you can't place Jack in Chicago, Illinois, simply because the
handwriting matches. And then I had to three weeks later,
fighting from Jack's aunt, that Flova had sold the far
in nineteen forty four in Texas and moved to Chicago, Illinois.
(33:03):
I can't be that wrong with us then being able
to establish the proximity of Jack's mom in Chicago, Illinois,
and the happenstances of these murders, the soul that Lauren
swearing them came up with on the writing on the
wall in Francis Brown's home, in which case it literally
says you will see more of me, I will see
(33:25):
more of them, And it literally says Jack Terrence's name,
not over or under using any amount of letters in
that entire message. It all made complete sense. The message
looked like it was definitely written in lipstick, but it
looked like it had been manipulated a couple times, because
you can see the scrub marks where ooh, I didn't
like that. That looks too much like my writing. Let
me change that up, so it's placed and then rewritten again.
(33:47):
And even then when he uses these funky letter formations,
they are still consistent with some of the known writing.
Because again I tell you people, when you attempt to
disguise something, you're merely diving deep into your own imagery,
your own in your brain, and you're using something that
you already use, you just don't think you used it
that day. So that's gonna be your disguise for now.
(34:08):
So on December twenty sixth, nineteen ninety six, the John
Bene Ramsey ransom note found in the home It says
we have double letter spell Now, these are some of
the things I notated from it. We have double letter
spelling errors that Jack has and the Zodiac has. We
have the unusual splitting of words. The cursive Q was
a home run hit nobody. I've I've never seen anybody
(34:29):
write the letter Q like this, And we did this
during the handwriting examination. Gosh, I don't know a couple
thousand slides ago either way. I was showing how the
consistency between the way Jack perceives and writes the letter
Q incursive in the middle of printed writing is identical
to what we see in this John ben A Ramsey note.
And then the writing is like the disguised writing of
(34:52):
the Zodiac and the Channel nine newsletter. Now, we did
have qtie pie, and I guess I know that wanted
told me at the beginning or the opening of this
that qudie Pie had made a comment on the show
before we'd even started the show, that says Burke did it.
And I'm laughing at that now, because I actually have
(35:13):
that particular comment from YouTube in the presentation today that
Burke did it. I want everybody to understand something. The
entire Ramsey family was cleared of DNA as early as
January of nineteen ninety seven, so less than a month
after the daughter's death. DNA had been completed on this family.
It did not match the DNA that was found on
(35:34):
John Benay Ramsey. Indicates that there is a third party
culpability here. I know everybody wants to say Burke did it,
but if he's been cleared, he's been cleared. Now. That
went a second step further. Even though media was weaponized
against the Ramsey family and four years, even to the
detriment of Patsy, who suffered from cancer, I'm sure due
(35:55):
to the stress and all of the chaos involved with this,
it spent up every last penny they had. Eneral Electric
came in and bought John Ramsey's business for pennies on
the dollar, and the media helped all of this take place,
where these people were under scrutiny for so many years
that finally in two thousand and eight, Mary which was
I don't recall her last name, hopefully it'll be in
(36:15):
here somewhere. She was the DA of Boulder County. She
ran DNA on the Ramseys once again in two thousand
and eight with the newer technology and excluded them for
a second time. You guys need to stop putting out
false narratives like the Burke did it, or Dad did
it or mom did it. The Ramsey family has been cleared.
And when you look at the process of the way
(36:37):
the zodiac communications and the murders, the high influential people
who have lost children, that there is something else in
the making here. You have to consider this third party culpability.
So I'm going to start now by reading this letter
so everybody stands what this ransom note said. When he
first started to write the ransom note, he wrote mister
(37:00):
and missus Ramsey and then decided to change that to
just mister Ramsey. That's an indication that the hit is
at John Ramsey, not at Patsy Ramsey. So it says,
listen carefully, we are a group of individuals that represent
a small foreign faction. Sounds a lot like anthrax. Guys,
We respect your business, but not the country that it serves.
(37:22):
At this time, we have your daughter in our possession.
She is safe and unharmed, and if you want her
to see nineteen ninety seven, you must follow our instructions
to the letter. You will withdraw one hundred and eighteen
thousand dollars from your account. One hundred thousand will be
in one hundred dollar bills and the remaining eighteen thousand
and twenty dollar bills. Make sure that you bring an
(37:42):
adequate size attache to the bank. When you get home,
you will put the money in a brown paper bag.
I will call you between eight and ten am tomorrow
to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting,
so I advise you to be arrested. If we monitor
you getting the money early, we might call you early
to arrange an earlier delivery of And I'm going to
(38:05):
pause there for a second because i want to go
back through some of these consistencies again. So we have
the foreign faction, which we know that the anthrax letters
tried to portray that it was a foreign faction that
was involved with that bio warfare, when in fact it's
found that it is an American who did it. We
respect your business, but not the country that it serves.
(38:26):
That's a political reference. She is safe and unharmed. Not true.
She is dead, just like Dagnan before this ransom note
is found. If you want to see her in nineteen
ninety sevent she's already dead, so you must follow our
instructions to the letter. Is another Zodiac ploy. You will
withdraw one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars. This was the
(38:48):
precise amount of a bonus that John Ramsey was due
to receive from his company. The fact that they asked
from your account one hundred thousand will be in one
hundred dollars bills in the remaining eighteen thousand, twenty dollar
bills is kind of like the instruction given in the
Susan Dagnan note, in which he asked for specific denominations
of the ransom money that he was asking for. Make
(39:10):
sure that you bring an adequate size attache. Now at
A has been used in a couple communications, one of
them being the real estate agent during the Black doll
You stuff so and at ashe is kind of a.
That's an upper most people would call it a brief
older older more uh, I want to kind of French
(39:35):
or technical, well more, it's a more technical term. It's
like it's like a.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
It's like a it's so so. An analogy for it
would be like, instead of saying I did a turn,
I was at dance today and I did I did
my turns. I was at dance today and I did
my pirouettes exactly. Not many people are gonna know what
a pirouet is, but you might know what a turn is.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
She did that spinnything. Yeah, And I was going to
use kind of this similar analogy with there was dried blood,
whereas somebody technical would say it's coagulated blood, right, like
it's a term that's above most people's head and definitely
not a lay person. Definitely shows the intelligence. We also
know that there was an attache reference in the dB
(40:20):
Cooper stuff because a briefcase was used. Like there's just
so many combining factors here. Now it says, when you
get helme, we'll put the money in a brown paper bag,
call you between instructure and delivery. It will be exhausting,
and advise you to rest. Okay, maybe that's it for
this particular Well, now I pointed went out, so yes.
Speaker 4 (40:40):
Make sure you're rested because you'll be exhausted. Or is
it the person writing it is gonna needs to be
rested because he's going to be exhausted.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Right right, Yeah, No, that's a very good point. I
do want to state that there was a witness at
a bus stop at one point in time that it
indicated they saw an older get onto it, onto that bus,
and he recognized him as having some type of congenital
heart issue. And my interest was piqued on that. Not
(41:10):
that I knew that Jack was suffering from it at
the time, because I didn't until I discovered the nineteen
ninety six diary of Nora, but the man said he
recognized the signs of it because he was barrel chested,
which is one of the things that was mentioned about
the zodiac, right that barrel chest had got that big, fat,
over bloated stomach and you've got that very small chest,
(41:31):
which is usually a sign of retaining fluids. And he
said he was very familiar with congestive heart failure because
his father suffered from it and the looks from it.
Now we have Jack returning back to California, sick, unable
to go anywhere, and I promise you and Nora's diary,
by February he's in the hospital being diagnosed with congestive
heart failure. I cannot make this stuff up now. Now,
(41:53):
second page of this ransom note says the word hence. Now,
this was one of the words they tried to say.
Patsy Ramsey uses it, and she must have been the
one that wrote this that. I feel like if they
knew that he was about to receive one hundred and
eighteen thousand dollars, they would also know some of the
key languages that these individuals used in order to perpetrate
(42:15):
a letter that would shed suspicion on the family and
keep them so busy that they couldn't concentrate and focus
on continuing business. Now there's again on this page hyphenation,
splitting of words. There's lowercase capital ms in the middle
of lowercase printing, which that has always been a go
to for me. That's Jack all day long.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
Speaking the slant the slant too well, and he tries
to like but his but you can still see that
that this this kind of a direction.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Right word or left word. I see, I see it's
kind of going back and forth, and that could be
the act of changing the paper or the or the
position of the hand. It talks about speaking. Now, so
let me read this. We left off an earlier delivery
of the money, and hence a earlier pickup of your daughter.
(43:14):
Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate Now,
this is the first place I saw these capital constructed
letter ms. Where's there? It is so in the immediate. Yes,
we have capital constructed letter ms, which when you look
at these other m's that are all kinds of funky
over here, they look like your stereotypical lowercase ms with
(43:35):
the entrance stroke and then the humps that come in.
Oh my gosh, I can't believe this is only if
we got five minutes left. Girl. This has been so exciting.
I'm going so fast and forgetting even what time it is.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
So.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yes, in the word immediate, we see the construction which
is kind of a four part or a. It may
be a single stroke letter M, but it is definitely
a capital construction in the middle of lowercase writing. Result
in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also
be denied her remains for proper burial. The two gentlemen
(44:10):
watching over your daughter do not particularly like you, so
I advise you not to provoke them. Speaking to anyone
about your situation such as police, FBI, etc. Will result
in your daughter being beheaded. So there's that statement that
coincides with Susan Dagnan actively having been beheaded. If we
(44:31):
catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If
you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is
in any way marked or tampered with, she dies. You
will be scanned for electronic devices, and if any are found,
she dies. You can try to deceive us, but be
warned that we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics.
You standing ninety nine percent chance of killing your daughter
(44:53):
if you try to outsmart us. Oh god, that is
such a zodiac statement. Follow our instructions.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
Follow our instructions.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Hold on, I was trying to get the I'm gonna look,
yeah exactly, and it says follow our instructions and you
stand one hundred percent chance of getting her back something.
You and your family are under constant scrutiny. That tells
me that they know much about this family as well
(45:27):
as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain, John,
You are not the only fat cat around, so don't
think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us, John,
use that good Southern common sense of yours. It is
up to you. Now, John Victory SBTC. Now, to the
extent of the Victory SBTC, most people took that to
(45:49):
mean Subic Bay, and that was something that John Ramsey
was involved with. Terry Batcher actually decoded the Victory SBTC
to a coordinate that actually landed on Burke Ava new
in I believe Charlotte in Michigan. So it was very
odd the way that came about his decoding of the location,
(46:09):
and that it actually landed on something named Burke, which
I don't fully understand it, and I can't repeat that.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
I don't understand that, but I mean that's the little boy's.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Name, Burke exactly. And what he did was he he
gave numeric value to these letters and obviously like one
being A two B and b on down the line.
And once he analogy. Yet once he was able to
pull out the numbers from the letters that located accord
accordinate on Burke something in Michigan. So either way, we
(46:43):
are down to well we still got about three minutes.
Let me go back here.
Speaker 4 (46:52):
Well, I want to point out, yeah, just real quick,
the concept reputation that's one of the tactics, this reputation,
the causing repetition of she dies, she dies, She's going
to die, die, die, dying. It's like if you it's
like over and over. It's like one of their tactics
of repetition, and that just goes to show you that
(47:12):
she was already dead. He's trying, he's telling you without
telling you that she's already It's overdisclosure.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Yeah, it's overdisclosure. Ninety nine chance of not getting her back,
leaving a one percent chance of getting her back to
a full one hundred percent, like there was no in
between there. I would have set one hundred percent chance
she's gonna die if you screw up, and a ninety
nine percent chance you get her back if you do
(47:38):
do it right, But they did it just in the opposite. Yep,
all right, well so it's I show we're at forty
seven to fifty eight. So false hope, Yeah, exactly, definitely
false hope. Now, the use of the lowercase why as
a capital is just like Jack, that is something that
he did. He's familiar with law enforcement, countermessa and tactics.
(48:00):
This is the same thing that the zodiacs, Scorpion and
most others claim you're not going to catch me. I've
covered my fingerprints, I know how to write differently. All
of these things that at the time they understood could
be figured out through handwriting. Also, you know, back in
this timeframe, I want to say, up until recently, the
(48:20):
major Forefathers and document examine is examination said if there
was one significant difference in the writing, that you could
not make an identification of an author. Now that goes
to say, if it's natural handwriting, not if it's disguised.
If it's disguised, you anticipate to see different things. Do
you expect to see things not flowing as naturally as
(48:43):
it does in the natural handwriting. So I think that
that was the premise that this offer was going by
back in that day, because that's the way it was
looked at. If I change one letter, they can't identify me.
And so we see these different letters that are being disguised.
But was the time they're identical to other communications in
similar type of unsolved killings. And I'm sure that these
(49:06):
letters didn't come out immediately when they were found. I'm
sure that they were withheld to a certain point or
to a certain degree in order to you know, maintain
the secrecy of what only the author or the killer
would know. So at some point with these being relieved.
We didn't have internet back then, you know, ninety six,
(49:27):
we did, but we didn't have things like lipstick killers,
you know, handwriting and the Atlanta, Georgia child killers at
our fingertips. We didn't have the FBI archives and FOYA
files where we could go in and find these letters
and communications. So this person either had an end with
law enforcement as well in order to get it, to
even imitate it, or we're dealing with one author. Guys,
(49:49):
all right, that's it. I thank you so much for
being here, Lindsay. We're going to pick this up and
continue on with this next week. Everybody, have a wonderful
weekend and we will see you next Friday. Yes man,
great chef, thank you definitely,
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek
(00:22):
the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any
suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
I'd like to welcome to the show today. Lindsay mcbrair. Hey, Hey,
I'm excited we're finally here. I know, I feel like
every time I do a pre record, I'm so out
(01:13):
of whack and then so excited when I come back.
I'm not sure I'm not going to stumble over my
own words. Oh yeah, Oh my goodness. So we are
now just going to climb into Nora's diary in nineteen
well it's the end of nineteen ninety five, of course,
and it says nineteen ninety six dress begins. So I
(01:33):
kind of want to remind everybody that the John Binney
Ramsey note came to me again from an anonymous person
who slipped in, dropped the letter off, made probably some
small talk, and was gone and out the door again.
And when they dropped that letter off, of course, it
looked much like the Zodiac communications in a lot of ways.
It had similarities to both the Atlanta, Georgia child killer cases.
(01:57):
Many of the different notes that we saw the Channel
nine newsletter. There were just so many different communications that
the elusive disguised handwriting was consistent with. And when I
got to the third page, I actually found formations of
letters that were in fact what I know Jack to
write like. And I perceived that to be a misdropping
(02:24):
of letters, if you will, because it literally when you're
learning to work with disguised handwriting, and especially if it's
of any type of length, people will naturally revert at
some point in time back to their own handwriting, unbeknownst
to themselves, because it's very taxing on the brain to
keep up a disguise. So when we're working with disguised handwriting,
(02:44):
we start at the bottom and work backwards. And in
that very last paragraph on John Benet Ramsey's ransom note,
we saw some letters that were not consistent with the
rest of the formations throughout the letter, and they look
much more natural, which I'm sure everybody will agree once
we get there. So after examining this handwriting, I took
it to Dennis and I talked with Dennis about it,
(03:05):
and he said, no way to net You're wrong. Jack
could not have been part of this. He was with
us in California in during Christmas and the holidays, so
there's no way he could have done this. So I
kind of took that with a grain of salt. Okay, well,
maybe there are the people out there that are using
some of the formations like Jack. I kind of set
it a side when about my research looking through more
(03:28):
of the belongings, and I stumbled across this nineteen ninety
six diary of Nora. So on November eleventh, we know
that Jack takes the family, Charles and Nora to California
for the holidays because not only is it Thanksgiving, but
it's also Charles's birthday. And then of course they were
to stay all the way through the holiday season, which
(03:49):
was kind of strange because with Jack's mom in a
care home, he up and leaves when we know he
has this kind of perverse love for his mother, where
he's constantly back there. He wanted to be the man
of the house at one point when his father died,
and he wanted to sleep in her bed, was the
story that I was told. Now, I don't know how
much of that is true, but it kind of shows
(04:11):
what they presumed, or at least profiled in the zodiac cases,
that there was a perverse love for his mother. Yeah,
so why he would up and leave during the holidays
of what may potentially be her last holidays on Earth
kind of sets a different example for me, right, I mean,
you would think that you would want those last minutes,
(04:32):
those last moments, And so what we're going to talk
about in this story also seems a little odd in
the fact that a he was willing to take the
family out of the state where Mom is being you know,
keptain in a nursing home away from her, and into California.
At the same time he then picks up and leaves.
And that's what we're going to talk about today. So
(04:54):
diary is headed by what.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Right no California for the calf and Charles's birthday on
November twenty fourth, girl's birthday Birthdake Carl I.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
Don't know why but it seems sounds muffled. I'm not
sure if if it's just mayor I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Is that better? Are you not able to hear me?
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, yeah, that did it?
Speaker 4 (05:29):
That helped.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Okay, So Charles's eighteenth birthday, they had birthday cake on
November twenty fourth and ice cream for Charles. Garrett was
there at Denny's. And I'm not sure what it's a
oh Dennis enjoys now. On November twenty seven, three days
after Charles's birthday, she labels this, Jack had to go
back to Texas today. Got a fax from Dolores. Granny
(05:53):
wasn't doing so good. She was combative and confused, wasn't herself.
Jack was worried about her. He went back. Charles and
I stayed in California. So that tells a different story.
Right now, we've got a concern to Jack going back
to Texas for his mom, but he wasn't to concern
Jack when he left to take the family away for months,
(06:13):
not just a couple of days to California. His intentions
were to stay there all the way through New Year's Eve. Basically,
So I'm kind of back and forth. And you can
also see this green writing that's coming up here on
the right hand side, that literally is bleeding through the
backside of the paper. We go to talk about, Yeah,
we're going to talk a bit about that because there's
(06:34):
some dating inconsistencies in this diary. There's some additions. It
looks like she literally filled this out after the fact.
So I'm not sure how well we can actually trust
some of the information that we're seeing, but i just
want you guys to know that this was literally it's
like she goes back and writes a week and a half,
two weeks later, or even in some cases much later,
(06:55):
as we're going to see in here, based on the
way this is set up and that this is being written.
So I'm believe and it could.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Be that, like couldn't you know, maybe it's not nefarious,
because I mean there's been times where I've uh, you know,
wrote in my journal when I'm journaling and I've forgot
a couple of days or like a week because I
just and I just like put it off and put
it off, and then I'm like, Okay, I gotta go
back and fill in that.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
You know what I'm saying. But are you feeling back
in or are you just adding to at that point, saying, oh,
by the way, last week this happened.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Well now, yeah, but I feel like I would I
usually would say forgot to notate what happened this or
what I found out on this week and this day,
because I always put the dates on my research and stuff,
so you know, I would definitely say something on those lines,
you know.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Okay, So it looks to me like she almost even
pre set some dates in here if this were the case,
because we have the top of the next page of
the diary on November twenty eighth of nineteen ninety six.
Then the very next date after that actually says and
I know you're going to see them more predominant overwriting,
which is the sixteenth, but this actually says December twenty five,
(08:10):
nineteen ninety six. Then she goes bashing back. Yes, then
she goes back and back dates it to the sixteenth.
And I don't know that this is her overwriting. I'm
assuming that it is. But again here we see more
of this green writing that has been obviously added after
the fact, So she is clearly not even finishing consistent
(08:33):
thoughts when she writes things down. So it says December
twenty fifth, And I want to say personally with if
I wrote down, if she didn't pre write the dates,
let's say November twenty eighth for Thanksgiving December twenty fifth,
maybe she thought these were the only entries that she'd
write in there, and she preached that in but then
came back and corrected it. So I'm giving some leeway
(08:54):
here and playing devil's as.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
I was gonna say too, like she maybe just wrote
down the next dates for her next writings.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Right, but nobody confuses December twenty fifth, right, now, that's
not a date we mess up. That is a date.
So we also see over here to the right, December
twenty fifth, Christmas Day again, So she wrote down December
twenty fifth, then came back and wrote the sixteenth. It
says Jack comes back to California, got sick for two weeks,
(09:24):
flew and cold. We are staying now. The added part
after the fact, in a different pen color, is we
are staying till around one fifteen ninety seven. So Jack,
and this is one of Dennis's reasonings for why he
believed that Jack was with him during this whole entire time,
as he said that Jack got sick and he vividly
(09:45):
remembers having to move Jack. He actually was evicted from
his apartment or his place at this particular point in time,
and he Enjoyed needed to find a new place, and
on Christmas Eve they were forced to move, and he
said the first thing he moved was a bed to
the new place to put Ja in it, because Jack
was too sick to be up and around and moving.
(10:05):
So I'm just gonna read the portions of this diary
and then we'll take it from there. So on November
twenty eight, Thanksgiving, had dinner at Dennis and Joy's, just
the four of us, Charles, Me and Dennis and Joy.
Dennis got mad at Joy. Joy went upstairs, upset. I
went outside upset. Also a nice dinner ruined. This is
a very obviously toxic family, always having some types of
(10:30):
issues or it least me an ability to get along.
And it doesn't make any sense. Why. Well, I know
Dennis so.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Well, and I think that also it has to do
with so many different things going on, and once that
it creates conflict, right like so and so's got this,
and so and says got this, and so one says
got this. And they're trying to do every like like
it's like chaotic because if everyone wanted to do something
or having to do something at the specific tom.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Well, and it may be in the stress of them
being evicted and having to get out that you know,
everybody is upset and fighting. I don't know when they
received the eviction notice. This seems rather early on November
twenty eighth for it to be a thirty day notice,
and they moved on December thirty first, But anything's possible, so.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Then, and they been on the train. They did it
on Christmas Eve. That's crazy. That was a main landlord, right,
I mean, that's the first thought I had, like, wow,
you can wait till after Christmas.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
You know what's interesting is I'm not even sure that
her diary reflects this move. But as we go through it,
I'm rereading it, basically for the first time in about
ten eleven years since the first time I read it
and put it into this presentation, I haven't touched it since.
But so that has been changed. From December twenty fifth
to December sixteenth, Jack comes back to California, got sick
(11:53):
for two weeks. On December eighteenth, Dennis and Joy have
been evicted. Okay, so now we see when the eviction
from the house on fair Oaks have to be moved
out in it says in five days, and that would
have made it. That would have made it before Christmas. Yeah, yeah,
that had made it. Yeah. See, so there's something really
wrong with these date sequences. I'm telling you, guys, some
(12:15):
of this stuff is not making any sense. So December
twenty second, Jack is at the new house. She's properly
dated that five days forward. On the twenty second, Dennis
and Joy and Charles been working round the clock, mostly
trying to get out of the old house and into
the new one. Now, Dennis's recollection was that this occurred
(12:36):
on New Year's Eve. So we are now looking at
a journal which a she did not do on the
dates in which it actually occurred. She went back and
filled in a bunch of stuff, then went back and
refilled things in and changed dates on stuff. So December
twenty fourth, got the tree back up, yesterday was up
in the old house, moved it in the car. Geneva's birthday,
(12:58):
got her a cake, they came over, went to Connie's.
I believe it says four get together was good. December
twenty fifth Christmas Day, Dennis, Joy and Charles gone somewhere.
This morning, Jack and I went to Dawn's and Eileen's
(13:19):
I visit a while. We couldn't find anything open for dinner,
so went home and ate only thing there was to
eat in the house, top Ramen. Later on, Dennis and
Joy and Charles opened Let's see if I've got that next. Nope, okay.
I didn't continue after that because I was really focusing
in on this particular entry in the diary. But this
(13:42):
definitely solidifies that Jack was gone for basically a month
from everybody, we see these calls that are happening to
Colorado while he's gone. We also see his cell phone tracking.
We're going to get to here in a minute. So
the December fifteenth rewritten as December sixteenth again. And I'm
not sure who makes these types of errors. If Nora
(14:05):
always wrote in journals, as Dennis said, why did Jack
only keep nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety six, which
is a very big you know, read, Harry, I guess
if you will. For these cases, these prove a move
and his place of employment. During other unsolved murders, mishaps
and coincidences, there's enough time while he's gone to create
(14:26):
the Ramsey Ransom note, which many people have agreed was
a very lengthy note that was like that likely took
some time to actually write. And I do know that
they mentioned that he had started this letter more than
once on that pad of paper. They were able to
prove that, probably with an ZDA machine which maps out
(14:47):
indentations in the paper, so that they could actually see
that it had been written more than once. We know
that Jack returns terribly sick, and then Dennis and Joy
makes that move. Dennis recollects, like I said, moving on
New Year's Eve. But these these entries differ if you
if you played with this, and I say, if you
(15:08):
played with this, if December twenty fifth was the day
that Jack actually returned, which was Christmas Day, and they
were given a five day notice that would have them
moving out on what day? December thirty first.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Guinness is recollection more valid in the math maths.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
So I'm wondering at what point were these changes done.
Was this something somebody else executed. Was this something that
she went back and redid? But her recollection and what
she wrote down is being written at a time after
the fact. Obviously, based on what we're seeing. So let's
(15:51):
see here. So we do still see that the phone
bill at this point in time is labeled John W.
Terrence with an E instead of an A. And we
get to see the phone calls that he's making from
his cell phone as he's leaving out of California, So Stockton, California, Bakersfield, California,
this is his normal pathway on down to southern California
(16:13):
and then he exits off to the east. So we
also see incoming calls and calls made on a on
a calling card, which I almost forgot about those darn things,
but I had to. I'm like, what is cl These
are calling cards that are being used attached to the
actual bill or the phone number that Southwest was handling.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Well, would he do just buy extra minutes?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Well, I think back in the day when you had
a calling card, Yes, you would put minutes on the
calling card or if that call, if you used and
punched in a particular number, it just automatically build it
to that phone billy, whether you so you could get
a calling card at the local liquor store or the
seven eleven or something like that and put minute on it.
(17:00):
But if you had a valid account with a cellular company,
then that calling card number was available for you to use,
and it just attached it to that bill. And that's
what we see. Gola was here and of course he's
John Terrence on here. We're flip flopping back and forth.
Remember John Jack, John Jack. Here is additional and this
(17:21):
is the thirtieth through the eighth. We see that there
are phone calls from the cellular phone that are still
reaching out to Texas and calling cards that are calling
out to Texas. So it tells me that at least
on the eighth of December, that Jack is definitely still
in Texas. So November and December nineteen ninety six, activity
(17:43):
I want to see did we have we had Colorado here,
but this looks like time on December third? And again,
why keep these cell phone bills? And some of this
stuff seems rather ridiculous to have kept for.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
If I remember, yeah, keeping it is different, But I
do remember back in the day whenever I first got
a cell phone, and before you could put it put
your paperless, you could do paperless. They would send you
the bill with all this information on. It was like
a big I remember the packet was like this big.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Huge, Yeah, but why why keep this of all things?
You know what I'm saying. It just doesn't it. He
didn't keep every bill. We do see the ones he kept,
but they seemed to be, like I said, red herrings
that literally flought out his movements and where he's at
and what he's doing. Just in case, yeah, just in case.
And of course we also see that there are calls
(18:40):
still being made to Lacey Washington, which is where Mary
and her family was, so we know that she is
not And I had originally assumed that there was a
possibility that the Boulder Colorado or the Colorado numbers were
associated with a time frame in which Mary's husband Rick
was incarcerated in Colorado, in which case she moved to Colorado,
(19:00):
So I thought, oh, well, there's a chance that he
could have been dialing them there. But you've now settled
that for us with your research on the phone numbers
and by seeing that Lacey was Washington is still being
called and knowing that that's where a Mary was b
where Nora was sent to when Jack went back home
to take care of Mom in her final months or
year or whatever it was, that they are still currently
(19:22):
in Washington. Then we see this bill on twelve ten
of ninety six, which is paid by Jack. He writes
the date twelve ten, nineteen ninety six, which means he
is at least still in Texas as of twelve ten,
nineteen ninety six, and this is to the Nelda Street address.
Why he's not staying in mom's house, I don't know.
I don't know if he sold it after he got
(19:43):
the power of attorney. I don't know why he's in
any place other than where his mom was living before
she went into the home either. Yeah, the Southwestern Bell.
Why did I have this here? Twelve three of ninety six,
So we have money charges and roaming charges, so obviously
(20:04):
he is not in his local quality. Yeah, we used
to have roaming charges on our cell phone. So if you, yeah,
remember the one down to the Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
It was like, uh, it would do the roaming if
you were like in the rural area where.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
There's out of because before there was like specific areas
in which your cell phone was good and it wasn't
like it was oh all of California, and you would
get roaming charges if you were out of that area.
So on December twenty fifth of nineteen ninety six, John
Binney Ramsay is found dead in her family home in Boulder, Colorado.
(20:39):
We're going to talk first about hers, and then I
want to make a quick comparison to something I do
believe Jack is involved with, and that is the murder
of Dagnan in nineteen forty six, which nineteen ninety six
is almost a fifty year anniversary. And I know that
we've made some coincidences with one hundred year anniversaries with
(21:00):
Lincoln and some other assassinations and things like that, but
I just find this to be super coincidental that it
is also revolving around what I believe is politics and
bad people. And again same with the John Bena Ramsey case.
So John B. And A Ramsey was six years old.
She was strangled with a tourniquet using a broken handle
of the paint rush. The brush portion was found in
(21:23):
Patsy's art supply tub, but the bottom third of the
paintbrush was never found. So was this taken as a trophy?
And if it was never found, if she hadn't explained
that it had already been broken and that piece was
gone somewhere, I think we would have we would have
heard about that. That would have been a Oh, she
knew that paint brush was broken, that's why she tossed
it into the basement. And then the culprit, you know,
(21:45):
used another third of it and left the other third behind.
But there's just stating outright that the bottom third of
that paint brush was never found, as if it should
have been beaten on the head, half dressed. The underwear
that she was wearing too big, She had ligatures on
her wrist. There are claims that she was sexually violated
(22:06):
with the object or the paintbrush, or at least a
portion of it. They had found pineapple in her stomach
and a bowl of fruit left in the kitchen glass
with a tea bag found in it. And mind you,
the Ramseyes indicated they didn't drink tea, so whoever was
there had themselves a glass of tea, and by all means,
I found out much later that one of Jack's favorite
(22:28):
drinks was tea. Suspects by time in the home previous
to Ramsey's return. The ransom note was found on the
back stairwell leading up from the kitchen area, and the
body was found in the basement. There were shoe prints
that were obtained a suitcase found next to a broken
window at the basement level. Suspect knew personal information about
the Ramseys. A sharpie pen that was used was older
(22:51):
and obsolete than the ones the rest of them found
in a cup, so evidently the notepad itself and the
sharpie pen were perceived to have been those of Patsy Ramsey's,
which was one of the reasons they attempted to blame her,
But if somebody had spent any amount of time in
her house, there was also sorry. There was also a
break in in the Charlevoi, Michigan house in which items
(23:13):
like a horse rope and other things were found in
John ben Ay Ramsey's room at that home, which that
could have been where they had taken the notepad or
the sharpie pen. Either way, the pen that was found
to be used on this ransom note was older and obsolete,
but found in a cup of new sharpie pens, so
it could have been taken as an older obsolete pen
(23:35):
from the Charlott Boy house and then dropped at And.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Is that that's the little girl that she went to
dance class with?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Who's that?
Speaker 4 (23:46):
There was another break in of a little girl in
that area that she went to dance with, that she
went to dance class with. Is that the same residence.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
In Charlotte Boy? Oh no, not no, Charlotte Boy, Michigan.
All right, So early on in the presentation I put
forth a picture that was in Jack's belongings, and it's
him driving down the highway and in the picture the
frame that he took of a billboard that mentions the
nuclear power plant in Charlevoi, Michigan. Charlotte, Michigan is the
(24:19):
second home of John Ramsay.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Okay, okay, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
So you see my connection there. Why is he keeping
a picture of a nuclear power plant board? And it
doesn't it's not time consistent with when he was. So
the picture was color, it was all the things that
were much newer than the nineteen sixty two sixty three
time that we know he spent in General Electric in
San Jose's nuclear power plant. Because we see those pictures
(24:47):
professionally taken by probably some of the top photographers, because
they were doing basically a memento of congratulating Jack for
having created the water waste machine for nuclear waste and
that they had patented it. So Jack had written on
the back that they patented that in nineteen sixty two
(25:09):
sixty three. Clearly black and white photos not consistent with
this color photo of the Charlotte Boy, Michigan that we found.
So we have that connection to Charlotte Boy, which again,
why this picture, why this billboard? Yea, And so let's see.
And then the house, the house in Charlott Boy, Michigan
was broken into, and there were items left there that
(25:30):
did not belong to the family and was not recognized.
And one of those happened to be like an a lasso,
a horse rope, and then I'm not sure what other
things that it's been so long since I actually reviewed
this case, and Terry Batcher unfortunately lost his right to
be on this show, but he knows more about this
case than anybody. So some of the things on here
are information that he had given me during that time,
(25:53):
and maybe we'll come across that. So the letter was
written on a note pad found in the Ramsey home.
She was covered in a white blanket, and there was
a rabbit left at the grave. And the rabbit issue
is brought up because of course we have the white
rabbit and rabbit issue, Jack rabbit, all the things that
you know coincide with some of the motives and the
communications of uh the zodiac.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
Now, Louise Spring, you did, you did, and you didn't
mention the window, the window thing, the broken window. But
Ramsey said that he had broken it because he got
locked out of the house or something, and it was
it had been like that. So he was pretty much
claiming that no, that that no one got through there.
(26:40):
That's old. And then and then this one investigator is like, oh, well, yeah,
this is definitely an old break because of the cobwebs
and blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Right right, but the window in the picture of the
photographs that are found, we're gonna see, oh, we see it.
Actually right here, we can see that this window. Oh, Greg,
go back, we can see the this window is absolutely open.
So I would presume that at any point in time
that they went down there to take those pictures, and
they would have taken those pictures. Forensics teach you to
(27:10):
take your pictures on your way in so that you
don't disturb or mess anything up. Now, if this picture
was taken by law enforcement, that windows wide open, and
there's a suitcase next to the wall in order to
get back up and out and louse Smidt, one of
the detectives, was yeah, yeah, he She showed how it
was completely possible to not disturb any of those things,
(27:31):
climb through that window and get inside. Your only issue
would be getting back out. And I suspect that that's
why the suitcase, which I believe also had dirt prints
on it, was used for the suspect to get back
out of the house. Now one of the.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Real quicks were on the window real quick. Yeah, So
so I brought that up because also in the Darla
case in Texas where they say that she killed her
kids and then blah blah blah. If we covered last week,
there was also a window found broken, but it was
(28:08):
the they used the knife to slit the screen and
that and they are they say there's no footprints outside
the window, and that that it was pre stage like
that because it because then they found the fibers of
that screen on the on the knife. So the parallels
to this case. It being in nineteen ninety six, right
(28:32):
that little one of their little boys was six, John
Benet was six. There's the the numbers. They you know,
they used the symbolism. But I just thought that was
very weird. A weird parallel, So.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
I would suppose and I'm only guessing before and they.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Also used the weapon inside of a house as just
as uh found in John.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, yeah, I would think that it'd be highly complicated
from the time that Arley picked up the phone. They
said that one of the children would have bled out
in six minutes and or in eight minutes, and Darlee
was on the phone with the nine to one to
one for approximately six minutes. So they are now accusing
her during that time of having ran and stashed the
(29:16):
sock tipped over things over the top of bloody prints.
Now you're telling me that they staged a window by
cutting that screen in order to make it look like
somebody has gotten And that's a whole lot of cover
up going on inside of six minutes while she's on
the phone with the police department. So I'm in shock.
(29:37):
She's bleeding as well, you know, she's near cut to
to the ephemeral artery or not I'm sorry, artery in
her neck and literally stabbed in the arms. And of
course we saw that the bruising that came from that,
there had to be a massive amount of blood loss
form her and we see the blood all over the
places she's running around trying to grab towels. So if
she's running around trying to grab towels to assist her children,
(30:00):
how is she doing all of this cover up stuff
inside that timeframe? It really doesn't make a lot of sense.
But another one of the things that I tracked this
back to was one of the earlier killings during the
Black Dollia era, in which Louise Springer was sexually assaulted
with a branch or a stick from a bottlebrush tree
and this cord was used to bind her hands, which
is a continued mo We see this use of clothesline cording.
(30:24):
This happens to be a parachute cord. I'm going to
talk a little bit about that, but as you go through,
you see that them os are just so similar. And
now let's just touch on Dagnan real quick. So Suzanne
Dagnan was killed in nineteen forty six. Her father was
one of the CEOs of the Price Administration, or not
a CEO, he was just like a head executive of
(30:45):
the Price Administration who set pricing on milk and meats
and things like that. He had been accused of sending
rancid meat to the Indians in their reservations, basically starving
them to death. There was this whole black market meat
thing going on. There was a lot of politics wrapped
around it. We had some butcher out there that was
killing somebody and this six year old yeah, yeah, this
(31:08):
six year old little girl ends up being beheaded, dismembered.
Her body parts are deposited in the storm drains, and
one of those storm drains happened to be on Hollywood Boulevard,
which was a cross connection to the bisection done on
Black Daulia, who was filmed on Dagnan or near Dagnan
Way in Hollywood. So there's just so many things that
(31:31):
are overlapping, like what are the chances that these things
could be happening unless one person knew all of these
different mixes. So there was a ransom note also found
for Susan Dagnan. She was also a six year old
blonde little girl. She was taken from her bedroom window.
They indicated that they left a ransom note in her bed,
(31:53):
and that ransom note indicated we would give her back
if you paid her a X amount of money. So
here we also have this ransom note with Susan with
John Benny Ramsay, which says they're asking for a ransom
and she'll be returned, but be careful, she may be beheaded.
So now they're actually referring to a specific bifurcation or
a bisection that was done to Susan Dagnan and then
(32:15):
lo and behold, both of these little girls were dead
by the time the ransom note was even found, so
there was never any intention to ransom them whatsoever. It
all makes it look like it's some type of a
setup or cover up in the end. Either way, there
was far too many coincidences, and the fifty year anniversary
of these two murders, I'd be so would be.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
I would like to see both of those ransom notes
beside each other.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
I talk about lipstick killing cases all the way back
in nineteen forty five and nineteen forty six, and this
is another timeframe in which Dennis and the FBI told me, Nanette,
you can't place Jack in Chicago, Illinois, simply because the
handwriting matches. And then I had to three weeks later,
fighting from Jack's aunt, that Flova had sold the far
in nineteen forty four in Texas and moved to Chicago, Illinois.
(33:03):
I can't be that wrong with us then being able
to establish the proximity of Jack's mom in Chicago, Illinois,
and the happenstances of these murders, the soul that Lauren
swearing them came up with on the writing on the
wall in Francis Brown's home, in which case it literally
says you will see more of me, I will see
(33:25):
more of them, And it literally says Jack Terrence's name,
not over or under using any amount of letters in
that entire message. It all made complete sense. The message
looked like it was definitely written in lipstick, but it
looked like it had been manipulated a couple times, because
you can see the scrub marks where ooh, I didn't
like that. That looks too much like my writing. Let
me change that up, so it's placed and then rewritten again.
(33:47):
And even then when he uses these funky letter formations,
they are still consistent with some of the known writing.
Because again I tell you people, when you attempt to
disguise something, you're merely diving deep into your own imagery,
your own in your brain, and you're using something that
you already use, you just don't think you used it
that day. So that's gonna be your disguise for now.
(34:08):
So on December twenty sixth, nineteen ninety six, the John
Bene Ramsey ransom note found in the home It says
we have double letter spell Now, these are some of
the things I notated from it. We have double letter
spelling errors that Jack has and the Zodiac has. We
have the unusual splitting of words. The cursive Q was
a home run hit nobody. I've I've never seen anybody
(34:29):
write the letter Q like this, And we did this
during the handwriting examination. Gosh, I don't know a couple
thousand slides ago either way. I was showing how the
consistency between the way Jack perceives and writes the letter
Q incursive in the middle of printed writing is identical
to what we see in this John ben A Ramsey note.
And then the writing is like the disguised writing of
(34:52):
the Zodiac and the Channel nine newsletter. Now, we did
have qtie pie, and I guess I know that wanted
told me at the beginning or the opening of this
that qudie Pie had made a comment on the show
before we'd even started the show, that says Burke did it.
And I'm laughing at that now, because I actually have
(35:13):
that particular comment from YouTube in the presentation today that
Burke did it. I want everybody to understand something. The
entire Ramsey family was cleared of DNA as early as
January of nineteen ninety seven, so less than a month
after the daughter's death. DNA had been completed on this family.
It did not match the DNA that was found on
(35:34):
John Benay Ramsey. Indicates that there is a third party
culpability here. I know everybody wants to say Burke did it,
but if he's been cleared, he's been cleared. Now. That
went a second step further. Even though media was weaponized
against the Ramsey family and four years, even to the
detriment of Patsy, who suffered from cancer, I'm sure due
(35:55):
to the stress and all of the chaos involved with this,
it spent up every last penny they had. Eneral Electric
came in and bought John Ramsey's business for pennies on
the dollar, and the media helped all of this take place,
where these people were under scrutiny for so many years
that finally in two thousand and eight, Mary which was
I don't recall her last name, hopefully it'll be in
(36:15):
here somewhere. She was the DA of Boulder County. She
ran DNA on the Ramseys once again in two thousand
and eight with the newer technology and excluded them for
a second time. You guys need to stop putting out
false narratives like the Burke did it, or Dad did
it or mom did it. The Ramsey family has been cleared.
And when you look at the process of the way
(36:37):
the zodiac communications and the murders, the high influential people
who have lost children, that there is something else in
the making here. You have to consider this third party culpability.
So I'm going to start now by reading this letter
so everybody stands what this ransom note said. When he
first started to write the ransom note, he wrote mister
(37:00):
and missus Ramsey and then decided to change that to
just mister Ramsey. That's an indication that the hit is
at John Ramsey, not at Patsy Ramsey. So it says,
listen carefully, we are a group of individuals that represent
a small foreign faction. Sounds a lot like anthrax. Guys,
We respect your business, but not the country that it serves.
(37:22):
At this time, we have your daughter in our possession.
She is safe and unharmed, and if you want her
to see nineteen ninety seven, you must follow our instructions
to the letter. You will withdraw one hundred and eighteen
thousand dollars from your account. One hundred thousand will be
in one hundred dollar bills and the remaining eighteen thousand
and twenty dollar bills. Make sure that you bring an
(37:42):
adequate size attache to the bank. When you get home,
you will put the money in a brown paper bag.
I will call you between eight and ten am tomorrow
to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting,
so I advise you to be arrested. If we monitor
you getting the money early, we might call you early
to arrange an earlier delivery of And I'm going to
(38:05):
pause there for a second because i want to go
back through some of these consistencies again. So we have
the foreign faction, which we know that the anthrax letters
tried to portray that it was a foreign faction that
was involved with that bio warfare, when in fact it's
found that it is an American who did it. We
respect your business, but not the country that it serves.
(38:26):
That's a political reference. She is safe and unharmed. Not true.
She is dead, just like Dagnan before this ransom note
is found. If you want to see her in nineteen
ninety sevent she's already dead, so you must follow our
instructions to the letter. Is another Zodiac ploy. You will
withdraw one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars. This was the
(38:48):
precise amount of a bonus that John Ramsey was due
to receive from his company. The fact that they asked
from your account one hundred thousand will be in one
hundred dollars bills in the remaining eighteen thousand, twenty dollar
bills is kind of like the instruction given in the
Susan Dagnan note, in which he asked for specific denominations
of the ransom money that he was asking for. Make
(39:10):
sure that you bring an adequate size attache. Now at
A has been used in a couple communications, one of
them being the real estate agent during the Black doll
You stuff so and at ashe is kind of a.
That's an upper most people would call it a brief
older older more uh, I want to kind of French
(39:35):
or technical, well more, it's a more technical term. It's
like it's like a.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
It's like a it's so so. An analogy for it
would be like, instead of saying I did a turn,
I was at dance today and I did I did
my turns. I was at dance today and I did
my pirouettes exactly. Not many people are gonna know what
a pirouet is, but you might know what a turn is.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
She did that spinnything. Yeah, And I was going to
use kind of this similar analogy with there was dried blood,
whereas somebody technical would say it's coagulated blood, right, like
it's a term that's above most people's head and definitely
not a lay person. Definitely shows the intelligence. We also
know that there was an attache reference in the dB
(40:20):
Cooper stuff because a briefcase was used. Like there's just
so many combining factors here. Now it says, when you
get helme, we'll put the money in a brown paper bag,
call you between instructure and delivery. It will be exhausting,
and advise you to rest. Okay, maybe that's it for
this particular Well, now I pointed went out, so yes.
Speaker 4 (40:40):
Make sure you're rested because you'll be exhausted. Or is
it the person writing it is gonna needs to be
rested because he's going to be exhausted.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Right right, Yeah, No, that's a very good point. I
do want to state that there was a witness at
a bus stop at one point in time that it
indicated they saw an older get onto it, onto that bus,
and he recognized him as having some type of congenital
heart issue. And my interest was piqued on that. Not
(41:10):
that I knew that Jack was suffering from it at
the time, because I didn't until I discovered the nineteen
ninety six diary of Nora, but the man said he
recognized the signs of it because he was barrel chested,
which is one of the things that was mentioned about
the zodiac, right that barrel chest had got that big, fat,
over bloated stomach and you've got that very small chest,
(41:31):
which is usually a sign of retaining fluids. And he
said he was very familiar with congestive heart failure because
his father suffered from it and the looks from it.
Now we have Jack returning back to California, sick, unable
to go anywhere, and I promise you and Nora's diary,
by February he's in the hospital being diagnosed with congestive
heart failure. I cannot make this stuff up now. Now,
(41:53):
second page of this ransom note says the word hence. Now,
this was one of the words they tried to say.
Patsy Ramsey uses it, and she must have been the
one that wrote this that. I feel like if they
knew that he was about to receive one hundred and
eighteen thousand dollars, they would also know some of the
key languages that these individuals used in order to perpetrate
(42:15):
a letter that would shed suspicion on the family and
keep them so busy that they couldn't concentrate and focus
on continuing business. Now there's again on this page hyphenation,
splitting of words. There's lowercase capital ms in the middle
of lowercase printing, which that has always been a go
to for me. That's Jack all day long.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
Speaking the slant the slant too well, and he tries
to like but his but you can still see that
that this this kind of a direction.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Right word or left word. I see, I see it's
kind of going back and forth, and that could be
the act of changing the paper or the or the
position of the hand. It talks about speaking. Now, so
let me read this. We left off an earlier delivery
of the money, and hence a earlier pickup of your daughter.
(43:14):
Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate Now,
this is the first place I saw these capital constructed
letter ms. Where's there? It is so in the immediate. Yes,
we have capital constructed letter ms, which when you look
at these other m's that are all kinds of funky
over here, they look like your stereotypical lowercase ms with
(43:35):
the entrance stroke and then the humps that come in.
Oh my gosh, I can't believe this is only if
we got five minutes left. Girl. This has been so exciting.
I'm going so fast and forgetting even what time it is.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
So.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yes, in the word immediate, we see the construction which
is kind of a four part or a. It may
be a single stroke letter M, but it is definitely
a capital construction in the middle of lowercase writing. Result
in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also
be denied her remains for proper burial. The two gentlemen
(44:10):
watching over your daughter do not particularly like you, so
I advise you not to provoke them. Speaking to anyone
about your situation such as police, FBI, etc. Will result
in your daughter being beheaded. So there's that statement that
coincides with Susan Dagnan actively having been beheaded. If we
(44:31):
catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If
you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is
in any way marked or tampered with, she dies. You
will be scanned for electronic devices, and if any are found,
she dies. You can try to deceive us, but be
warned that we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics.
You standing ninety nine percent chance of killing your daughter
(44:53):
if you try to outsmart us. Oh god, that is
such a zodiac statement. Follow our instructions.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
Follow our instructions.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Hold on, I was trying to get the I'm gonna look,
yeah exactly, and it says follow our instructions and you
stand one hundred percent chance of getting her back something.
You and your family are under constant scrutiny. That tells
me that they know much about this family as well
(45:27):
as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain, John,
You are not the only fat cat around, so don't
think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us, John,
use that good Southern common sense of yours. It is
up to you. Now, John Victory SBTC. Now, to the
extent of the Victory SBTC, most people took that to
(45:49):
mean Subic Bay, and that was something that John Ramsey
was involved with. Terry Batcher actually decoded the Victory SBTC
to a coordinate that actually landed on Burke Ava new
in I believe Charlotte in Michigan. So it was very
odd the way that came about his decoding of the location,
(46:09):
and that it actually landed on something named Burke, which
I don't fully understand it, and I can't repeat that.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
I don't understand that, but I mean that's the little boy's.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Name, Burke exactly. And what he did was he he
gave numeric value to these letters and obviously like one
being A two B and b on down the line.
And once he analogy. Yet once he was able to
pull out the numbers from the letters that located accord
accordinate on Burke something in Michigan. So either way, we
(46:43):
are down to well we still got about three minutes.
Let me go back here.
Speaker 4 (46:52):
Well, I want to point out, yeah, just real quick,
the concept reputation that's one of the tactics, this reputation,
the causing repetition of she dies, she dies, She's going
to die, die, die, dying. It's like if you it's
like over and over. It's like one of their tactics
of repetition, and that just goes to show you that
(47:12):
she was already dead. He's trying, he's telling you without
telling you that she's already It's overdisclosure.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Yeah, it's overdisclosure. Ninety nine chance of not getting her back,
leaving a one percent chance of getting her back to
a full one hundred percent, like there was no in
between there. I would have set one hundred percent chance
she's gonna die if you screw up, and a ninety
nine percent chance you get her back if you do
(47:38):
do it right, But they did it just in the opposite. Yep,
all right, well so it's I show we're at forty
seven to fifty eight. So false hope, Yeah, exactly, definitely
false hope. Now, the use of the lowercase why as
a capital is just like Jack, that is something that
he did. He's familiar with law enforcement, countermessa and tactics.
(48:00):
This is the same thing that the zodiacs, Scorpion and
most others claim you're not going to catch me. I've
covered my fingerprints, I know how to write differently. All
of these things that at the time they understood could
be figured out through handwriting. Also, you know, back in
this timeframe, I want to say, up until recently, the
(48:20):
major Forefathers and document examine is examination said if there
was one significant difference in the writing, that you could
not make an identification of an author. Now that goes
to say, if it's natural handwriting, not if it's disguised.
If it's disguised, you anticipate to see different things. Do
you expect to see things not flowing as naturally as
(48:43):
it does in the natural handwriting. So I think that
that was the premise that this offer was going by
back in that day, because that's the way it was
looked at. If I change one letter, they can't identify me.
And so we see these different letters that are being disguised.
But was the time they're identical to other communications in
similar type of unsolved killings. And I'm sure that these
(49:06):
letters didn't come out immediately when they were found. I'm
sure that they were withheld to a certain point or
to a certain degree in order to you know, maintain
the secrecy of what only the author or the killer
would know. So at some point with these being relieved.
We didn't have internet back then, you know, ninety six,
(49:27):
we did, but we didn't have things like lipstick killers,
you know, handwriting and the Atlanta, Georgia child killers at
our fingertips. We didn't have the FBI archives and FOYA
files where we could go in and find these letters
and communications. So this person either had an end with
law enforcement as well in order to get it, to
even imitate it, or we're dealing with one author. Guys,
(49:49):
all right, that's it. I thank you so much for
being here, Lindsay. We're going to pick this up and
continue on with this next week. Everybody, have a wonderful
weekend and we will see you next Friday. Yes man,
great chef, thank you definitely,
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