Exploring the Outdoors with Chris Dorsey: Conservation, Media, and Global Adventures

On this episode of Hunting Matters, Joe Betar welcomes Chris Dorsey, an outdoor industry pioneer and host of Sporting Classics TV, to discuss his journey in creating a multimedia empire focused on outdoor sports and conservation. Dorsey shares insights on his career, his work with Forbes, and the role of hunters in sustainable conservation efforts. They dive into the upcoming election and the importance of informed leadership in fish and game agencies. With over 120 series produced, Dorsey also reflects on his global adventures and the surprising lessons learned along the way.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Joe b.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Tar, This is rabon Roeblist, and we talked to fascinating
people about their love of hunting, shooting, sports, and the outdoors.
This is Honeting Matters well, folks, thank you so much
for joining us today for this week's episode of Honeymatters.
Our guest this week is Chris Dorsey. Chris, it would

(00:28):
take us an hour just to read your bio, but
I'm going to give them a kind of a quick
rundown of who you are. For those who don't know, Hey,
Chris is a publishing and television pioneer and strategist. He's
a biologist too, philanthromist, author, entrepreneur, and hosts of Sporting
Classics with Chris Dorsey. Where I think Chris, a lot
of people probably know you best from over the years,

(00:49):
and you've been involved in a lot of non hunting
projects as well. So thanks so much for joining us.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Great to be here, as always, always fun to join
you guys.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
And this is your I think this is your second
or third trip with us, and we appreciate it. In
first on video so you get to see how ugly
Ramona and I really are.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
It's a little scary, but I'll get over it.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
It's the headphones, you know, it's they it the headphones.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, it is the headphones. So Chris, where are you today?
Where in the world are you located?

Speaker 4 (01:17):
I am in western Colorado, just outside of Meeker. Yeah,
we've got a property out here and the weather's beautiful.
It's about seventy degrees and Sonny the Trouter Fat the
Elker bugland.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
So it's a good time to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah. Are you guys el cunning?

Speaker 1 (01:30):
We're gonna be Elk Cunning in about a week.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah. Is that when the season opens.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Well we've had.

Speaker 4 (01:34):
Both season up until a couple of days ago, and
now rifle season is going to kick off here at
the ranch in a couple of days.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
So how's how did did you both hunt this year?

Speaker 1 (01:44):
I did not, I did. Just just got a rifle hunt.

Speaker 4 (01:47):
I've got some guests, how Walt Boomer, General Boomers coming
out and some friends from Bray's Island.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
So it'll be a good time.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah, awesome, awesome. There's man, there's nothing like Colorado Elk
or elk in general, and bigling in the fall. It's
just I get chills just thinking about it.

Speaker 4 (02:01):
Well, we had such a severe winner just a couple
of winters ago, but they've really bounced back, so we've
got good numbers again and it's encouraging.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, that was a huge concern for
for I know, fishing game agencies as well as people
who love to hunt and fish and love the outdoors.
That really took a toll in the Western States and Wyoming, Idaho,
you guys in Colorado and and so you're seeing you're
seeing population starting to bounce back.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
One of the best septembers ever.

Speaker 4 (02:27):
I was just talking to one of our guys who said,
we've got elk everywhere, So yeah, it's encouraging. I don't
know if they're just moving into our zone or if
they just have have just kind of repopulated over the
last couple of years or what, but.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Good news is they're here.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
So that's good. That's good man. I'm excited for you guys.
We've talked Chris a couple of times before about about
your background, how you got in this area, so we
won't rehash a lot of that, but I'm just curious,
just as a broad scope question.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
What.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
You've you I know, you won't say these things about yourself,
so we get to say them for you. But you
basically have created a multimedia empire over the years, and
I know it's taking a lot of hard work and
a lot of ups and downs, that sort of thing.
What inspired you to take that path in life, you.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
Know, just trying to avoid honest work. It's been my
mission for a long time. And yeah, it's good work
when you can find it, when you can go out
and hunt and write about it in the early days
and produce television shows about it, and you know, and
it's always come with a bit of a mission, a
little bit of responsibility. I think when you've got a
platform to make sure you do justice to the to

(03:30):
the content itself, and you blend in a little bit
of conservation, the role of hunters in conservation. And you know,
as you know, I spent a lot of time in
the mainstream doing mainstream cable television.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
We're doing IMAX films.

Speaker 4 (03:43):
So a lot of what we do is a great
way for us to spoon feed some conservation, create some
earned media around some of these properties where we can
celebrate the role of hunting in conservation. That's if I
have a life's work and passionate It really is just
that it's celebrating hunting and the role of hunters in conservation,
and any chance I have to do that, whether it's

(04:05):
in Forbes or it's in other magazines, I do it.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Ramon, you're muted, bud.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
Oh, it's a team's call. How did the relate? And
it was such a good question, I guess I'll ask
another question. How did your relationship with Forbes begin?

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yeah, it was it was through a third party friend.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
I used to do some stuff with the Wall Street
Journal years ago, and I shifted so heavily into television
and had gotten kind of out of print all the
way around, really just a little bit of a writing
for print, just because I was so focused on TV.
And he said, you know, I need to develop some
other platforms. Started talking with some friends that knew some
folks over there, and they said, you know, actually we're

(04:48):
looking for somebody kind of in that lane. Somebody can
do outdoors conservation. We know it's a big business. Forbes
obviously is business forward, but it's also a lifestyle. And
it's interesting how many people that are very successful in
business happen to have a passion for the outdoors.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
And so that's been. It's been fun to and they
give me a lot of latitude.

Speaker 4 (05:08):
I mean I could write about a lot of different things,
whether it's you know, the Second Amendment, or it's real estate,
or it's adventure in Africa, or it's something in Iceland,
or it's politics to some degree as well.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
So, you know, just just being able.

Speaker 4 (05:21):
To write about things like the Mountain Lion Initiative and
Prop one one twenty three or whatever it is out
here now one twenty seven.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Actually that's a big deal.

Speaker 4 (05:30):
You know, be able to have a mainstream platform and
talk about these issues and not just talk to the
choir all the time is fun for me.

Speaker 5 (05:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Do you find that? Do you find yourself? Because the
first thing I think about was, Okay, Chris Forbes is
writing for the people in the outdoor world. Know you
know who you are and what you're about. People that
are not outdoor, that are reading Forbes, reading online, that
sort of things, see your content, you see your information.
Do you ever find yourself in the Joe Rogan position

(06:02):
where he comes out on certain issues where you know
people are like, cancel, cancel, canceled Joe Rogan like you know,
which is ridiculously everybody's getting title their own opinion in
the first first Miendment rights, which is obviously is a
big topic this year in the in the election year.
But do you do you catch a lot of heat
from either your your readers or forms or how do
they react to that? It was it was a little

(06:23):
bit of a shock to them at first, or to
tell us a little bit about that overall experience.

Speaker 4 (06:27):
Yeah, I mean it's been a bit of a dance,
I would say, with the editorial team over there. But
I think they've been really great to work with, and
I think they get this landscape. And and and again,
it's not a it's not a political platform. It's not
a you know, it's not sort of a right wing
Fox News, it's not a left wing MSNBC. It's really
a business centric lifestyle. Okay, people like to go hunting.

(06:48):
That's great, tell us about it, tell us about the
economics of it, tell us about the you know, the
the driver of that category, that industry, if you will.
And and so that's been kind of the focus. But
occasionally you'll get a you know, a letter back saying,
you know, particularly I did a piece on elephant hunting
and the US fish and wild Life Service kind of
looking at that as something relative to imports you guys

(07:11):
know very well about.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
And I was surprised I didn't get.

Speaker 4 (07:14):
More negative response, actually, but I laid out the narrative
right and talked to the right people, and it's like,
look this, if you care about elephants, you need to
understand something about hunting relative to elephants, right, And hunting
is not the same as poaching, no differently than a
pharmacist is not a drug dealer. So let's, you know,
let's be smart about how we tell the story. And

(07:36):
I think with that kind of latitude, and I think
I'm reasonably good at kind of talking through that to
a mainstream audience understanding I've got a grounding in the outdoors,
but I also have a bit of a grounding in
the mainstream and understand those sensibilities really just because I've
dealt with network executives and editors and folks over the
years for a long period of time. So after you

(07:57):
get a lot of hate mail for a long period
of time, you find tune your message a little bit
better and understand and anticipate what might come depending on
what you say and write, So you you you're.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
Right around that, you produce around that, et cetera.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
You mentioned earlier proposition one twenty seven. Do you know
can you tell us what that is and why should
we care about that?

Speaker 4 (08:22):
Yeah, it's it's the ballot initiative in Colorado to ban
mountain lion hunting and bobcat hunting and links. Of course,
the joke is there, there barely are any links. They're
not hunted and they're not trapped, but they wanted to
lump that in there to just get the emotion going.
And it's it's not driven by science, it's not driven
by anything other than anti hunting groups. Mostly outside of

(08:45):
Colorado and Washington, DC. Wayne Piselli, the former head of
the HSUS you made side of the United States, who
was ousted from sexual harassment charges from HSUS, has formed
new organizations in Washington.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
They funded the ballot initiative to get the.

Speaker 4 (09:03):
Vote on the ballot, and we'll get to measure on
the ballot. And so this again this notion that somehow
there's a groundswell in Colorado to want to stop mountain
lion honey, it just isn't the case. These are groups
that are using this to raise money that's what they do,
and they're not going to do anything for mountain lions.
And the reality is, just like California, when they ban

(09:26):
mountain lion hunting, the state's going to do the killing
of mountain lions instead of hunters. The mountain lions will
be killed one way or another. So this notion that
somehow you're going to protect mountain lions if you ban
the hunt of mountain lions is idiotic. And we're at
all time highs with mountain lions. The state has done
a terrific job managing mountain lions and every species in Colorado.
We have a great state agency. So the notion that

(09:48):
you're going to somehow take wildlife management out of the
hands of the professionals, the people that are mandated chartered
to manage wildlife in the state of Colorado, and suddenly
turn that over.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
To the popular vote. And the only reason this.

Speaker 4 (10:01):
Is happening is because they've tried legislative runs. They've tried
through the Commission, and they've been categorically rejected because they're
bad ideas. They're bad ideas for wildlife, they're bad ideas
for people. And so their last recourse basically is to
go to the people directly through the referendum process. And
there's twenty six states that have the referendum process, so.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
That the key thing for the industry.

Speaker 4 (10:24):
I've been giving a lot of talks and doing interviews
and writing about this, but the key thing for the
industry to understand is what's happening here is the model
is being perfected. The animal rights model is being perfected
in the referendum states here in Colorado. It's going to
be transported to New Mexico, to Washington, to Oregon, probably
to Arizona, to other states across the west, especially across

(10:47):
the West. And so if you think this is just
some one off, I don't really care about Mountlones in
Colorado anyway.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
It's really not about Mountlions.

Speaker 4 (10:55):
This is about a model that's going to be transported,
and if they win this one, we're going to see
really hard, expensive fights in the future. So I'm just
trying to get the industry, myself and many others are
trying to get the industry to embrace the notion that
better to spend and fight now and stand to our
ground in Colorado than to let this thing pass and

(11:17):
have to fight a massive fight across the country, because
they'll then understand ninety five percent of the people don't hunt.
They don't have a vested interest in hunting. So it's
much easier to use emotion to sway the general public
against hunting than it is to throw science at the
general public and hope they swallow the kool aid, because
it's It's what we're seeing now is the campaign that

(11:40):
they're running isn't based in anything factual. It's all emotion,
and they're really good at it. I mean, the reality is,
they've been perfecting this for a long time, and you know,
we've been focused as a category on let's make sure
we got habitat, Let's go save the wetlands, let's go
save the prairies, let's go save you know, the turkeys,
the ducks, the phasan, etc. Which is noble. It's a

(12:02):
wonderful thing to have done. It's a great story to tell.
The problem is, and I wrote about this in the
Industry Trades, the tragic flaw of the North American model
is we did all this wonderful work and we never
told the general public what we were doing and why
it was important to them, And so we've lost this narrative.

(12:22):
In the meantime, our opponents, they have gone after us
and made our lifestyle toxic to the mainstream. And so
now we're in a situation where in some cases we
don't even have the ability to get onto the platforms
to tell our story because we've already been so marginalized
that we aren't even allowed to tell our story. So

(12:43):
this has been a massive mistake by the category. Frankly,
it's almost unbelievable that we're here who we are. And
so now you're seeing this frenzy from the animal rights
groups going we have figured this out. We have cracked
the code on how to end this thing once and
for all, and that is the referendum process.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Well other than that, Missus Lincoln, how was it right?

Speaker 3 (13:13):
So it's just animal rights. It's just you know, dog
lovers or whatever not want to need to hunt. There's
no other reason behind it. I mean, these animals aren't
eating babies or anything. I mean, sometimes there's valid reasons
on both sides, but in this case, it just sounds
like they want to save cute, cute animals.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
Well, they want to raise money, you know, they really
don't care about the animals. I mean, I find it
very difficult to believe that they really give a damn
about the animals when you look at the track record
where they spent their money. What exactly have they done
for animals? What exactly has the Humane Society of the
United States done for pets and pet shelters? Oh? Absolutely nothing.
You know, they don't. They've traded off that name for

(13:51):
a long long time. And these are these are just
fundraising organizations. They line their pockets, you know, they pay
their top executive is exorbitant salaries. And we've got some
information that just came out on some of these salaries
coming out of some of these organizations, and it's appalling.
But what they do for whildlife is zilch. But who
knows that, right, who's told that story. They've defined us

(14:14):
in the mainstream, and we've never really gone after them
to define them in the mainstream.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
And that's going to change.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah. I think there's like one or two organizations out
there that's their kind of their life dream. It's just
they they bring. They're not attacking HSUS or PT or
Center for Biological Diversity. What they're doing is they're bringing
the truth to the forefront and saying guys, are you
really aware of this how this money is being spent.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yeah, there's a group called Humane watch dot org.

Speaker 4 (14:40):
Right, it's the Berman Group out of d C, which
has been hired by the ad community, the pet community,
et cetera. And they've really done a deep dive in,
you know, the forensic accounting, if you will, of the
entire animal rights movement and it's a shady, nefarious world.
And there's a book coming out. They're going to be
releasing a book. That comment to me was, you're not

(15:01):
going to believe this stuff in this book in terms
of behavior of the people within the organization where the
money is gone. Of course, hs US has been convicted
of federal racketeering charges, bribery charges.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
These are not good.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
Groups, These are not These are not well intentioned people.
These are people looking to scam and make a bunch
of money. And they're good at it.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah they're Yeah, they're they're very good at it, and
they're organized, and they're they're wealthy. And it's it's a
it's an age old question that we continue to ask
ourselves in the outdoor world. Whether you're hunter fisher, just
so I love the outdoor whatever, Uh, number one, you
need to be aware of these groups and what they're
really all about. Number two is how do we get
organized to fight them? Because we've we've done it. Let's
just be honest. You've been around long enough to know
this as well. I'm not preaching an acquier, but we've

(15:43):
done a poor job as hunter conservationists and as people
who love the outdoors to organize and and pool our
polar resources, our money, our are our thought processes to
to really stand up and I have, quite frankly, I
know you probably feel the same way. I quite frankly,
as hunter conservationists, I'm second tired of being in the
defensive position. I want to play a little offense and

(16:04):
cross the goal line every once in a while.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
Amen.

Speaker 4 (16:07):
Yeah, I mean, look, it's how do we create a
funding mechanism where we can create a sustained campaign to
the mainstream that treats hunting as a brand.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Right.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Let's take hunting and imagine it as a brand.

Speaker 4 (16:19):
What are the features and benefits and attributes to that
brand and celebrate that through conservation, the conservation story that
surrounds that brand, and do it in the mainstream, whether
it's you know, mainstream newspapers, television, radio, but sustain it,
get into the school systems, really be much more aggressive
about it, but also go after our opponents.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Let's expose the soft.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
Underbelly of these animal rights organizations, which humanwatch dot org
is doing a very good job of, and make sure
that's understood in the mainstream, so before somebody writes a
check to HSUS or one of these other animal welfare
welfare organizations, they understand this is where that money is going.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
And we just haven't done a very good job of that.
But as we look at it.

Speaker 4 (17:04):
I was just in the the Congressional Sportsman's Foundation board
meeting in DC that I said, you know, when is
the Pittman Robertson Modernization Act coming? You know, when when
do we look at that funding mechanism and say we've
got to take a portion of that to save hunting,
not not conservation, but to save hunting. Because at the

(17:24):
end of the day, if we don't have hunting, nobody's
going to give a damn about the habitat anyway. So
you know the reality is, you better protect those rights
if you think there's anybody who's going to give a
damn about raising money for habitat down the road. So
I think we've we've just been a little flat puted,
and I think we've been siloed in the category and
the industry to say, well, we focus on that bird

(17:47):
or that fish, and we do gun rights and we
do whatever. But nobody's taken the you know, the fifty
thousand foot view of the entire category and said, where
are the where are the global threats to us? And
what does that look like? And what do we do
about it? Right, that's at the end of the day.
We're on the clock. Now, I mean, we're seeing Colorado.
If you live in Colorado, you know exactly what's going on.

(18:09):
You know exactly what's coming. If they pass this, we're
gonna have mountain lions, We're gonna have wolves because of
the ballot box biology process, and essentially black bears, which
aren't really hunted in Colorado. There's no baiting, there's no
hound hunting, so it's only the luck of spot and stock.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
So we're gonna have three apex predators on the landscape.

Speaker 4 (18:28):
And the narrative from the anti hunters at that point
is simply going to be why do we need hunters
to hunt deer and elk.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
We have all these apex predators to do that. We
know that stomach. Yeah, this is not a mystery.

Speaker 4 (18:40):
There's no surprise about what the next ballot measure is
going to be.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
So you know again, I just want to echo.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
If we don't figure this out now, we've got a
hell of a price to pay down the road. Well.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
I'm still green to all of this, all these issues,
but it sounds like, you know, legislative processes organizing. I
think we go back to the days where they pull
their best guy and we pull our best guy and
we fight to the death.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Wouldn't that too, Yeah, wouldn't that be? That would be awesome.
I know a couple of UFC fighters we could call on.
That'll be on our side real quick.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
Yeah.

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Speaker 2 (22:28):
Rocky Mountain ELK. You know, hunting is conservation. That's our tagline,
Rocky Mountain el Foundation. And and and I think a
lot of organizations and individuals and writers and media people
said yourself had done a good job as saying hunting
is conservation, but it truly is. Those two terms are
like you said, without hunting, these animals become commodities. There's
no funding for them, there's no there's no specialty, there's

(22:50):
no specialists around them. And so you know, it's kind
of it sounds kind of cliche, but hunting is conservation
at that the standpoint, those two terms are interchangeable. And
I just, yeah, I've been in this industry long enough.
You have too. I just I just don't know, Like
you said, is it the Pittman Robertson Moderors and Modernization
Act where you've got dedicated funding to save hunting and

(23:11):
promote the future of it. I don't know what it is.
It's just frustrating sometime. We all continue to fight the
good fight. We're not going to give up. But it's man,
I just I really wish we'd have just something stronger, and.

Speaker 4 (23:22):
There's got to be a funding mechanism, and whether it's
Pittman Robertson or something else, an expansion of Pittman Robertson
into other hunting products beyond guns and Ammo and look,
Rocky Mountain. ELK Foundation does a terrific job. They're very
active here in Colorado right now. I mean they've spent
a lot of money right now in Colorado on this
ballot initiative. I just met with Kyle and a couple
of the board members here in Denver. They flew in

(23:44):
for a meeting relative to funding a campaign against this measure,
and so I really applaud what they've done. They've been
really terrific at it, and and other groups have as well.
The problem we face with these kinds of organizations is
that they're they're really built to talk to themselves and
to potential new members that are already in the category.

(24:04):
So the idea of how do we get to the
main stream still sits on the table.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
That hasn't been answered, hasn't been addressed.

Speaker 4 (24:11):
And that's if we don't figure out how to get
a majority out of the ninety five percent of a
country that doesn't hunt.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
I don't know what we do. I mean, at the
end of the day, it's.

Speaker 4 (24:22):
We've got to have that because that is the new enemy,
that is the new model. And of course we see
these poles and I see them all the time. You
know that the majority of Americans support hunting, Well, that's
great until they're faced with a campaign against hunting, and
then then that doesn't hold up.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
And that's exactly what we're seeing in Colorado.

Speaker 4 (24:40):
So I think you could take a lot of those
polls and throw them in the trash, don't I don't
think they mean much in the face of a referendum
and in the face of emotional campaigns. And I think
part of it too, is is how do we fight
these measures. I mean, what sort of messaging are we
taking out if we think, you know, science space, wildlife

(25:01):
management is the only way forward is going to win
the day against an emotional argument.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
I think we're gonna have We're gonna have.

Speaker 4 (25:08):
Real problem with that because you know, throwing facts at
an emotional argument is like taking a slingshot to a gunfight.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
It's just we're emotional creatures.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
Man. If we don't recognize that, we better communicate through
emotion first. Emotion plus information equals communication. It's the oldest
axiom in the communication business. If we don't figure that out,
we're going to just keep losing. That's the reality of it.
And it's great to say we are conservationists and that's
a long term story.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
That is a good story, but it's a long term story.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
If you're trying to win in forty five days on
a ballot measure, you better be a little bit more aggressive,
in my opinion, you better be strongly emotional in your
response to emotional arguments. And that's new for this category.
It's just a very new approach.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Well, you know, I don't want to give them any credit,
but look, HSUS and those types of animal welfare organizations
as they choose to call themselves in that category. They've
done a good job, and I don't see why we
can't recreate that model in the hunting world. It's number one,
Like you said, it's money. You've got to have the
money because from there you can do white papers and
research and science and media campaigns, et cetera, et cetera,

(26:21):
fund those things and bring that to the forefront of
the public public thought. So they've done a good job.
I mean, you know, you can't. You can't deny that
they have.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
And they've largely been unopposed.

Speaker 4 (26:34):
I mean, the reality is they you know, again, we've
been so focused on doing the good work of Habitat
and just ignoring these people that have been destroying us
in the mainstream and marginalizing us in the mainstream that
that we've just now lost the ability to even even
engage in the mainstream in some cases. So yeah, I mean,

(26:55):
it's just it's it's strange to me as a category
with his any smart people as we have in it,
that we haven't recognized this a long time ago. It's
it's one thing to you know, do ads in your
magazine to your members talking about conservation hunting the role.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
That's great, the North American model, that's great.

Speaker 4 (27:14):
But if the mainstream doesn't understand it, you know, we're
going to be facing more and more of these ballot
measures and we're not going to probably win.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, I agree. So what do you think? What did
your gut tell you about Colorado and this proposition?

Speaker 1 (27:27):
You know, it's it's interesting.

Speaker 4 (27:28):
I've seen some of the early polling that RMEF actually financed,
and it's closer than what the wolf issue was at
the same time, and the Wolf deal only passed by
one percent, so it was at the end of the day,
it was a very close election here.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
In Colorado and the wolves.

Speaker 4 (27:47):
This one, this one is a little bit different in
that the female vote, you know, is interesting. In Denver
and Boulder, it's like seventy percent of women favor of
the band, not over surprisingly and too heavily democratic counties
of Colorado with women. So the idea is, how do

(28:08):
you reach them, how do you break through? Not because
you're going to get a majority of them, but you're
going to peel off ten fifteen to twenty percent perhaps
with the right kind of campaign. So that's what we're
working on right now. Is just trying to get that
messaging right, recognizing we're going to get We're going to
get Republican men.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
We already have a majority of them. We have the Western.

Speaker 4 (28:26):
Slope, we have rural counties of Colorado. So we're working
a lot of different angles right now, the earned media,
the op ed pieces, lots of television, radio interviews. But
it's going to be a tough fight just because the
inherent emotion of seeing a cat shot out of a
tree to somebody sitting in Denver and Boulder is a

(28:48):
tough image to overcome.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, I mean, you know, your team, send me some
of the things you guys have been working on, the
video shorts and things like that. And listen, I'm not
a cat person. I love dogs. Cat's not my favorite.
But that that clip that you sent with the Mountain
Lion with a freshly killed family cat outside the slotting
glass door and the family's child going what's going on?

Speaker 6 (29:09):
Mom?

Speaker 2 (29:09):
You know, and that listen. If you're really an animal lover,
you watch that and you go, wait a minute, I've
got a decision to make here, you know.

Speaker 4 (29:17):
Well, and it's interesting when you look at that footage
because the cat is not looking up at the mother
who's filming on our iPhone. The cat's looking where the
cat is looking at the child, I mean intently looking
at that child, like if that pane of glass weren't there,
that would be my next meal.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
It's clear. I mean, it's just as obvious as the day.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
So we went to Dan Frenslow, the former director of
wildlife here in Colorado, and had him comment about that,
and that's exactly what he said. He just said, look,
you look at that cat. What it's doing. That cat's
looking at its next meal, that child. So look, at
the end of the day, are your chances of being
eaten by a mountain lion really high in Colorado?

Speaker 1 (29:55):
No, but they're not zero.

Speaker 4 (29:57):
And just like somebody breaking into your home is low probability,
but it's not zero.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
So what do you want to do.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
Yeah, so you're saying that the mountain lions are eating
your pets.

Speaker 4 (30:11):
Yeah, they're I mean they're eating pets, they're eating livestock,
they're attacking people. You know, we had this horrific nine
to one one call from a two brothers in California.
One was killed, one was severely mauled by a mountain lion.
This just happened like a month or two ago, and
it's it's blood curdling to hear the excuse me, the
nine to one one call, and it's it's just, you know,

(30:32):
it's happening more and more because you've got more people
moving into traditional cat range. But once you stop hunting
an apex predator, what happens, Like we see with grizzlies
and yellowstone in other parts of the West, they lose
their fear of man. And so we've got all this
footage of cats walking in the backyard looking into windows

(30:52):
taking down pets.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
We're going to have more attacks.

Speaker 4 (30:55):
Everybody knows that if this proposition passes, and that's just
the reality of it. So I think part of the
messaging basically is to give pause to people in Denver
and Boulder, families, women, moms, and say, just so you understand,
there is a consequence if the sink passes, and part
of that will be will be danger. You'll you'll have

(31:17):
more I think our line is, you know, a walk
in the park is going to have a whole new
meaning if this thing passes. So it's it's again using
some of the emotion that's on our side. This is
factually accurate. These people were attacked, these pets were killed.
Here's video of that. You can't dispute it. And why
don't we use that more often? Why aren't we using
that in our campaigns? And that's that's why we are now.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
So yeah, there's got to be a shock, at a
level of shock with some of these things and the
way you address it and presented to the public. Because listen,
there's a reason why they run ninety second, two minute
long commercials on whatever news channel at night at ten
o'clock of puppies and kittens and cages, you know, and
conditions because they pull with the heart and people ract

(32:03):
better at the visual stemuli. So you know, we could
do the same.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Well, and our opponents have used emotion forever and we.

Speaker 4 (32:11):
You know, it's interesting to look and I see this
as a biologist, you know, it's interesting when you talk
to other biologists and people in the science community, they're
just it's almost like they get twitchy about using any
kind of emotion. And I said, well, look, we're forty
five days away from an election here, and if you
want to win, this is not factually inaccurate.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
We are not telling a lie here.

Speaker 4 (32:33):
We are simply showing the reality of what happens when
one of these cats attacks. And I don't feel bad
about that at all. I mean, I think that's a
reality that people need to understand. Will be part of
the outcome of this selection.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Maybe I don't understand the makeup of Colorado, but from
one thousand miles away, I see Colorado as a hunting
stay where everybody hunts. And I guess any hunter knows
what you're saying is the truth, and they would go
along with what you're saying. So where is this? Who
are these people who whose strings are getting tugged? Are
they people who've come in to Colorado from other states?

(33:08):
I mean, who are these people?

Speaker 4 (33:10):
Well, there's a lot of residents of Colorado that are
very urban. Right Again, less than five percent of the
population hunts, So they don't they don't get out of
Denver much, they don't, you know, they don't go into
the wild, they don't hunt at all, and so they're
they're susceptible to messaging that's emotional and they react to it,
and we don't counter that very often.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
So we have to counter that.

Speaker 4 (33:32):
The reality is we can't just keep talking about you know,
lion populations are at all time high because the state
of Colorado has done a great job managing them, which.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Is absolutely true.

Speaker 4 (33:42):
But in the face of an emotional argument, that isn't
going to win the day, and we're seeing that in
the polling data already, So we have to figure out
better methods of communication.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
And it really it's all about emotion. You know.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
If we can't harness emotion in our pitch here, we're
not going to win.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
That's true in my opinion.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
That's the truth with most elections, I mean even the
presidential election. Not to dig too far down in that,
but yet it's always emotion.

Speaker 4 (34:08):
It's not a new concepts new to our category as all.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yeah, there's two things that sell and make it and
make an impact. Sex and emotions. I mean they both.
That's what That's what the whole advertising world is driven upon.
And impulse and so, Chris, I'm gonna give out your websites,
your your television show websites, Sporting Classic TV, CLASSICSTV dot com.
But I'm guessing these videos that you guys created are
on your social media as well.

Speaker 4 (34:33):
Yeah, there's some on our Instagram, which is the Sporting
Classics TV yeah, and obviously it'll be on social media
and lots of different locations.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
People need to see it. Because when I popped it open,
I popped up in the link on it, and I'm
not shocked by much. But when I popped the link open,
I was like, holy cow, that'll get your attention.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Well, and we posted it.

Speaker 4 (34:51):
I think the line was simply, you know, hunters can
use emotion to message as well. You know, it's we
don't have to divorce ourselves from an emotional argument, and
I think we have to at this point, we absolutely
have to.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, so let's switch gears just a little bit. Here.
We're in an election year. I'm going to this is
solely my personal opinion. I'm not going to pose it
on you or a mone but parti's side. The previous
administration before this one right now, really had to focus
on the outdoors. It doesn't matter if you hiked, bag, hut, fish,

(35:26):
whim whatever, and enjoy the outdoors. There seemed to be
a renewed focus on the outdoors through the Department of
Interior and through the previous administration. I feel like this
administration has largely largely ignored the outdoor enthusiast that's just
my opinion. Several government agencies and departments. I work, as
you probably know, I work on the Steering committee with
American Wildlife Conservation Partnerships. It's a contortion of a lot

(35:48):
of different organizations, all the major organizations that they're over
thirty of them, and we come up with a document
every four years called while Life in the twenty first Century,
and that is basically a portfolio of recommendations for the
incoming administrations. They're handed to both candidates campaigns with recommendations
for the next four years. What do you think living
in this world, what do you think are are probably

(36:09):
top priorities for the outdoors for the next four years,
regardless of who comes into office.

Speaker 4 (36:13):
Yeah, well, I just identified what I think is one
of the top priorities, which of course is telling the
story of hunting and its role in conservation. I look
sitting on the CSF board for the last I don't know,
five or six years now. It's it's a bipartisan caucus, right,
It's the largest bipartisan caucus in the Congress.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
And I think the.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
One thing you can see in the Congress to a
significant degree that you don't really see in any other
issue is a notion that that hunting and fishing transcends
party and so they do cross the aisle to do good,
good work very often and in the outdoors and conservation.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
So hopefully that continues.

Speaker 4 (36:47):
Hopefully we look at we need a decent farm bill,
and let's get that done, and and let's look at
some other funding mechanisms to really celebrate hunting not once
once the year on Hunting Hunting Day, but by a
year year round, so we actually have it going forward.
So I think I think those are those are key priorities. Obviously,

(37:09):
you know, we we need to have the NRA come
back and and be active on the on the second
Amendment in a way that's meaningful and and hopefully that
that ship gets right it sooner or later.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Yeah, So, Chris, what is your take on state Fish
and Game agencies being populated ironically by people who do
not hunt or fish.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
Look, I was an intern back at the Wisconsin dn R,
you know, thirty years ago, and uh I think it
was Tony Earl was the director of the agency at
the time, and I remember this affirmative action coming in
and I just kept thinking, you know, as a as a.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Twenty year old.

Speaker 4 (37:47):
It's like, I thought, you would want to hire the
people that actually knew something about this. Wouldn't wouldn't make
sense to have a meritocracy and actually hire the most
qualified people for the job, no matter what the job is,
but especially a whid of life. So this push to
you know, DEI push across the board has been basically
a disaster in my opinion, almost everywhere, especially the military.

(38:09):
So as you look at that now, you just kind
of go, we're seeing the fruits of some of that now.
And you've got a lot of people in state agencies
that don't have any any grounding whatsoever and hunting and fishing.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
And I'll give you another story.

Speaker 4 (38:21):
We had some folks up at the North American last year,
the Big Wildlife Conference where all the state agencies come together.
A lot of the NGOs, the CAMO Coalition organizations especially,
show up there, and several of the state directors said, look,
you know, we think the R three program will slow
the eventual demise of hunting, but it's it's just going

(38:42):
to slow it so that we can find another funding
mechanism for our agency. It isn't going to be sportsmen.
It isn't going to be hunters that are going to
fund this going forward, which I don't know you guys
react to that, but I was appalled. I mean I
was absolutely taken aback that this was actually thought of
much less said. And so I look at it and

(39:02):
I go, all right, where the hell is all this
Pittman Robertson money going. It's going to the states, right,
And that's why I asked about this. Why don't we
have at this juncture a modernization Act of Pittman Robertson.
When Pittman and Robertson was passed, we barely had a
ducts on the limited. We had none of the other
NGOs with any delivery mechanisms, any ability to do anything.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
Well, now we do.

Speaker 4 (39:24):
So isn't it time that the private sector, the people
that actually do support hunters, that are are funded by hunters,
that are are our members, are whose members are hunters,
actually get some of those funds. Since it's a self
imposed tax, it's our money, right, we said, go ahead
and taxes, and we don't have another dust ball. That's
how far back this goes, right, So you know the

(39:46):
reality now is I don't believe the state agencies are
the solution to the loss of hunters.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
I don't think they've ever been the solution of that.
They're not built for it. And that's really not a
criticism of state agencies.

Speaker 4 (39:57):
There's a lot of great state agencies, a lot of
great people in those agencies, but they've never been built
to grow the ranks of hunters. That's not their mission.
So we keep throwing all this money at them. In
the R three program, we go why are we losing hunters?
Why are we losing participants in this category? There's no
qualification essentially to get that money in terms of performance. Yeah,

(40:20):
there's qualification in terms of matching funds and all that,
but what did you really do with that money that
we just sent you? All those billions of dollars we've
been pumping into the states. So coupled with your question
of we've got state agencies now that have a lot
of people that don't know anything about hunting, and even worse,
don't like hunting, right, they don't even like hunting. So
same with our official wild Life service. So these agencies

(40:44):
have been infiltrated by people that are not of the culture,
don't like the culture. Would love to see the culture
go away. So yeah, it's cause for concerns.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
You might say, yeah, I think I learned a lesson
several years ago. I had a friend who was head
of i'll name this person or the agency, but was
head of a fishing game agency, state fishing game agency,
and the it was it was kind of an AHA
moment for me, was this person when the legislature was
in session in that state, it was basically sitting at
their desk going, okay, well, when is the Governor's office

(41:15):
going to call? Or when am I you know, when
am I going to run across to the capitol. How
do you do a job and manage thousands of people
and millions of acres when you're basically sitting here waiting
to go talk to the governor or go talk to
somebody at the legislator all the legislature all the time.
I mean, that's sure you nail that point well.

Speaker 4 (41:31):
And in Colorado we've got the governor appointing commissioners that
are anti hunting, right, the wildlife commissioners sor ansioning. So
it's because his partner is a huge animal rights activist,
so that that's his agenda. He wants to end the
stock show in Denver. He's against ranching. He wants to
to get some new we just found out through some

(41:52):
secret memos that were released. He wants to get some
legislation passed before the governor leaves to bolster the wolf
effort in Colorado. So I mean it's all agenda driven
these guys are you know, they're all out on the
same ilk as far as I'm concerned, they're you know,
follow the money In most.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Cases, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2 (44:52):
Man I'm exhausted talking about it for the political years
just wear me out. I guess you know, if I
didn't care, that wouldn't be so exhausted for him. I'm
glad we got you on the show because to talk
about these things because they're they're they're vitally important to
the future of our country.

Speaker 4 (45:06):
Yeah, well, look, I mean we're we're on the clock.
You know, the reality is we're on the clock. I
think the good news is the industry gets it. We
had we had about five billionaires represented in a room
on the Mountain Line issue.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Either they were in the room or their circuits were
in the room saying we've had enough. You know what
do we gotta do. Let's win this one.

Speaker 4 (45:25):
And that's the first time in my twenty five years
in Colorado anything like that's happened.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
Oh that's incredible. That's encouraging. That is very encouraging, very encouraging.
So let's talk about your your, uh, your world a
little bit outside of the politics, the politics and things.
So you've literally gone all over the world. You've seen
a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff you can't
probably talk about about this show and and things like that.
But what kind of give us. An example, what is

(45:51):
one of the most surprising thing that things you've encountered,
or a culture or a tradition or just one of
these things are like, I never expected that I'm going
to go hunt this here. I know you've seen a
lot and experienced a lot. So is there something top
of mind that kind of jumps out to it that
was just a big surprise moment for you.

Speaker 6 (46:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
I mean some of the landscapes have surprised me.

Speaker 4 (46:09):
I guess my impression, for instance, of Ethiopia was everybody
was starving and and uh yeah, there was nothing there
and you need to go to this really, you know,
this country where pity is the leading export. And I
got there and suddenly, you know, it's a beautiful country.
It's a gorgeous country. The wheat fields were full and

(46:30):
the people were happy, and I just thought, wow, this
is a little different than than you know, the feed
the children campaigns I've seen out of Ethiopia, et cetera.
Not to say that there aren't you know, kids in
Ethiopia haven't problems, sure, but that was a big surprise
for me. So a lot of it's just the landscape.
I mean, you go into the cloud forest at Ethiopia.
It's it's almost ten thousand feet. You're you're basically right

(46:52):
on the equator and you're freezing your ass off because
you're at ten thousand feet.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
It's like, wait a minute, I thought the equator was
right here, but it's you know, up like that.

Speaker 4 (47:00):
You just kind of go, maybe I should have read
a little bit more what I was doing before I
took off.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
One more layer would have been good.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
You know, Yeah, I don't think I've packed adequately.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
Can I borrow this? Could I borrow that? Can we
buy it over here?

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Now?

Speaker 5 (47:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Exactly, exactly. That's that's interesting that the landscape was the
one that kind of went off. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:23):
Yeah. It was just shockingly different than I anticipated, and
in a positive way.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
It was just it was gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
It was beautiful.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
The cloud forest is absolutely amazing.

Speaker 4 (47:31):
And then it's a stunning environment giant trees and Columbus monkeys,
and of course that's the layer of the mountain in Yalla,
which is a spectacular antelope and and everything else, you know,
giant forest hogs and and uh hobbits.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
As far as I know.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
So, speaking of not reading and not preparing for for that,
those conditions. What is your preparation preparation routine typically when
you're doing, you know, a big trip both physically and
and pack.

Speaker 4 (48:01):
Yeah, I mean I live at about seven thousand feet,
so it's nice that when I work out at seven
thousand feet it does translate, you know a little bit.
And I mean I did at Elkon a couple of
years ago here in Colorado that was almost eleven thousand feet,
which is higher than any of the sheep I've ever hunted.
And I mean I was sucking win and I live
at seven thousand feet. So I look at people, you know,

(48:22):
guests that come up from sea level and get to
seven or eight or nine thousand feet. Just I've been
there once upon a time I was a flat lander
and getting into the mountain. So you know, just trying
to stay in some semblance of shape is always important,
just so you can enjoy it.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
If nothing else.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
I always marvel when teams come into Denver and play
any sport, you know, basketball, football, whatever. Don't you know
how do the Carolina Panthers at sea level come into
Denver and function at a high level and a professional sport?
I don't, I don't get it. I have no idea
how they're able to do it, but it's impressive to watch.
It's you know, and why is it? And why isn't

(49:02):
den for more dominant?

Speaker 2 (49:03):
I was just going to say that, Yeah, well, hey, listen,
you're yeah too. I'm a Saints fan. You guys have
our old coach, So I was just tell you what
he's got. He's got a tough road there.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
But well, Saints had a hot start. They looked awfully
good a couple of weeks.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
Well, yeah, it's the thanks. See what happens in the
next four weeks.

Speaker 6 (49:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
Yeah, So you guys, you guys have you and your
team over theres that produce over like over one hundred
hundred and twenty shows, twenty different networks. What's the next
big thing that you can share with us that you
guys are working on from a media standpoint, something new
and exciting.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Yeah, we're doing a lot of these IMAX films now.

Speaker 4 (49:43):
We've created a kind of a separate company to focus
on just producing natural history IMAX films.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
We just did one on.

Speaker 4 (49:49):
On Great Salt Lake, which is a tremendous environmental story.
It's a kind of a catastrophic story, but it's a
story of hope as well, that they can say Great
Salt Lake. If they don't save Great Salt Lake, you
can kiss salt Lake City goodbye.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
That's the kind of impact that it'll have.

Speaker 4 (50:07):
But we just did a film on that with the
micro just narrated that forst We've got one coming on
the Gulf Coast and one on one called Living Forests,
which is all about a celebration of North American forests.
So it's really taken the Imax format, which is this
eighty by sixty foot screen, and you take something that's
ordinary and through the Imax process you make it extraordinary,

(50:29):
and that's really that's been a lot of fun. It's
a whole different genre. We've been doing this now for
almost four years, and it's been really fun to immerse
in that whole business of the Imax, the power of that,
taking that content into streaming around the world, multiple languages,
into the educational systems. We're in ten thousand schools with

(50:50):
short form content from those Imax films, so that's been
a really fun process. And we've got one coming on
the Wild Salmon of the Pacific Rim, which is basically
using wild salmon as a thread to tell the story
of the entire ecosystem of the Pacific Rim, from workAs
to brown bears, to spirit bears, to sea wolves and

(51:10):
eagles and all that.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
And it's a stunning landscape as you might imagine.

Speaker 4 (51:14):
I mean, the Pacific Rim is absolutely gorgeous, and the
footage that's coming back is out of this world.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
It's going to be a spectacular film.

Speaker 4 (51:22):
So that's that's been occupying a fair amount of my
time when I'm not freighting the mountain lion Ballaniasure.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
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dot com Slash hunting matters. What's your next big outdoor adventure?

(53:44):
You're obviously in Colorado the Alex seasons coming you got
something else playing beyond that?

Speaker 1 (53:48):
Hey, you know I'm leaving.

Speaker 4 (53:49):
In a few days to go up to Saskatchewan. We've
got a lodge up there. It's a private lodge with
a couple of member of friends of mine and taking
a bunch of guys up there hunt ducks and geese.
And you know, I've always loved the Prairies, and I
spent a decade of my life working for Ducks Unlimited,
so I had the benefit of criss crossing the prairies
a lot, so I got to identify really great zones

(54:09):
for the hunting, and uh yeah, it's a it's a
spectacular area and it's always fun. I just love the Prairies.
I love that wide open expanse. I love the migratory
birds and great upland hunting up there as well. So
that's like a week of my life every year. And
September October is on the prairies.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
So you know, I've had three different people I've talked
to in the past week and a half that have
never been up there that, Oh I just got back
from Canada. We did duck and geese, and two guys
going next week or this week whatever. I think it's uh.
And I got another buddy every year he goes to
duck geese and San Hill Crane, and I think it's uh. Well,
I know people in Texas are sick and tired of
all the waterfowl having left the state since we're not

(54:49):
planning rice in the Houston area anymore. And I grew
up Louisiana hunting waterfowl. That was that was, That was
how I got into hunting. But it seems to becoming
more and more popular to go north of the.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
I mean, it's it's a little bit tricky because some
of the provinces up there, like Manitoba, are trying to
restrict some of the Americans coming up.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
So it's a bit of a dance that's happening right now.

Speaker 4 (55:11):
But it's you know, the hunting is so good and
the prairies are such a magical place. And and again,
our very first Imax film was Wings over Water.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Michael Keaton Birdman.

Speaker 4 (55:21):
Painted for us, and that's a celebration of that ecosystem, which,
you know, unless you're a duck hunter, you don't know
anything about it. You've never heard of the prairie potholes
or the prairie wetlands unless you're really a duck hunter.
But seventy percent of the waterbirds in North America depend
on that ecosystem, two hundred and seventy five thousand square
mile ecosystem that's essentially a gift of the glaciers. Scraped

(55:43):
out these these potholes and created the ultimate soup kitchen
for ducks, you know, And that's that's really that was
a fun project just because it meant a lot to me,
I spent so much time in the prairies and then
to celebrate that ecosystem. And the mission behind these films
is simply a showcase to the mainstream. These are habitats
that are magical. They're worth saving, even if you're not

(56:05):
a duck hunter, just they're They're an amazing piece of
the planet. So we want to inspire audiences to do something,
not just enjoy it, but to then do something. And
that's that's a big part of the mission of what
we're doing.

Speaker 3 (56:17):
Yeah, Chris, what would you say is the largest animal
you could take down with your bare hands?

Speaker 1 (56:27):
G I hadn't thought of that one. Let's see, Uh.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
Hmmm, because you know, we're all tough in things with
guns and arrows, but I don't know.

Speaker 4 (56:37):
A pheasant one time come to life in my game bag,
and uh, it was it was all I could do
to sub do that.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
Hasn't it spurred the hell out of me?

Speaker 4 (56:45):
And I mean, honest to god, it came up and
just came right out of my face like a like
a fighting cock. And uh, I've never seen a pheasant
with vengeance before.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
That might be about as big as I'm going to
go with the hands.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
It's hard to get it's gotta it's got of an
unfair fight when they're on your back.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
I'm just yeah, thank god there is no video. That
was the good news. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
All you could do is really, I think I've had
to throw myself on the ground and try to suffocate
prop and roll all backwards. Uh what's uh? As we
kind of wrap up here, I want to be respectful
of your time. What's something that people would be surprised
to know about you that most people don't know?

Speaker 1 (57:25):
You know, It's funny, I live in two different worlds.

Speaker 4 (57:27):
I live in the mainstream media world, and they're always
shocked when I tell them I'm a hunter and I'm
not bashful about it. And uh, and so you know,
the mainstream people look at me like what is he?
And and other people look at me like is he
a TV guy?

Speaker 1 (57:42):
Is he a writer? Is he a magazine guy? Is
he a what is he?

Speaker 4 (57:45):
You know?

Speaker 1 (57:45):
And and so I don't know.

Speaker 4 (57:47):
I mean I've just always done my thing, and and
if I have fun doing it, I generally just keep
doing it.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
Yeah, yeah, I get it. I I kind of respect
that I can respect that immensely. Yeah, you're you're not.
You know, there's not a bucket that you can put
people can put you in because the first time I
found out you were involved with show like cabin Masters
or or these these other shows and uh home improvement,
which and forbid, I've watched enough of them. Yeah, and

(58:14):
I'll just leave it at that. I mean, uh, as
we remodel our house. But uh yeah, it's it's pretty
cool that you're that you're so diverse and in your
in your interest in things, that sort of thing. So
that's that's kind of cool. I think that's to your
advantage that people.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
You know, it's always fun.

Speaker 4 (58:30):
You always think about the shows that got away that
that should have been great shows. And and of course
my development team just had a ball when I came
up with the idea of these listen, let's do main
cabin Masters in Wisconsin, and we're gonna call it cottage
cheese Heads.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Well, sadly it never made it on air. Were you able?

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Were you able to keep a straight face?

Speaker 1 (58:54):
I still think it's a great idea.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
I like it.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
I like it just takes the right cast. It's always
about the right yes.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Sure, yeah, the personalities is what drives the show. Absolutely.
I think Ramona and I could probably do one.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
I would do it.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
I think you're you look the part. I'm telling you,
you'll look the part.

Speaker 3 (59:09):
We can discuss it when you're up, when we're up
there with you in Canada next week.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
Yeah, come on up, just text me the address. We'll
be there, all right. What would in retrospect, you know,
you obviously have done a lot over your life and
have the lot still to do. What would uh, what
would the fifteen year old version of you say if
if it was looking you know, forward to you now
say to you, that's a great question.

Speaker 4 (59:33):
Yeah, no, I mean it's And I asked that question
to a lot of people on camera that are in
Africa and people that started with nothing, built great businesses
and now could essentially do whatever they want to do.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
And a lot of times you get tears.

Speaker 4 (59:46):
I mean, people they just can't believe that they're doing
something that they never would have dreamt of. And and
I mean, you know, look, I used to watch Kurt
Goudy and the American Sportsman maybe you did as well,
and the idea of walking in here his footsteps around
the planet doing some of these things was was forget it.
I mean, you know, that's not for you, right, I

(01:00:08):
mean that that's all you would take away is thank
god I get to watch this show and see that
piece of the planet.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
But then when you're able to do it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:16):
And Kurt wrote a forward for one of my books
shortly before he passed away, and so we had a
great conversation about, you know, his career and and and
his love of conservation in his storytelling as well, and
he said, just remember, they didn't save the buffalo for us.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
So it was yeah, anyway, that's you know, that's that's all.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:00:39):
I mean I never would have thought I'm doing what
I'm doing. And I think you just keep moving, you know,
just keep moving, just keep going forward. And like I
tell my kids, it's like I'm not going to show
you what to do.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
You're going to figure that out.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
But I hope you have some motivation and skill sets
and and they do. And they're smart kids, and they're
they're active hunters, and they are articulate defenders of hunting
and and so that's a that's a source of pride
for me. I mean, the hunting I do now, the
most valuable hunting I do now is the time I
deal with them. So I really really cherish that. I mean,

(01:01:12):
that's you know, that's a big deal to me.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Right. Well, Ramon, we've had a great time with our guest,
Chris Dors fascinating.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
There always a hoot.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Yeah, we're that and that and more.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
But we're gonna we're gonna save the planet one of
these days, one of these days.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
One of these days. In parting and parting. Uh, you know,
for those listening and watching at home, we've got an
election you're coming up. Uh, it's gonna be a pivotal
year for us. And like you said, we're under the gun,
pardon the pun for the future of hunting, the future
of conservation. So if there was one piece of advice
that you could leave our audience as we close today,
what would that be. Those people love to hunt and

(01:01:50):
fish in the outdoors.

Speaker 4 (01:01:52):
Yeah, just get active and get out and vote, and
make sure you take people with you to vote. Make
sure you you know, a focus group of one is fine,
tell them what you think and and don't underestimate your
ability to influence people through one conversation, one letter to
the editor, one comment to a teacher, one chance to
speak in front of your church.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
Take advantage of those things. If you care about it,
share it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
Yeah. Great advice, Great advice, Chris Dorsey. Folks, check out
the website sportingclassicstv dot com. There's and all the social
media as well. Some fantastic media out there. Chris, have
a great ELK season and once again we truly appreciate
you joining us.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Thanks guys. Great to be with his allies.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
Cheers and Hunting Matters is a Houston Safari Club Foundation
production hosted by HSCF Executive director Joe Bitar and Ramone Robless,
produced by Ramone Robust. Please rate, review, and subscribe wherever
you listen to podcasts. For questions or more information, email
us at info at we hunt, we give dot org