Hamish Marr - Glyphosate, Nuffield, and cropping today.

In this podcast Bryan Gibson, Farmers Weekly Managing Editor, talks to Hamish Marr, 2019 Nuffield Scholar about his Nuffield research on glyphosate, New Zealand’s use of it as a strategic farming tool, and some of the challenges arable farmers are facing today.

To read more about Hamish's work, head to: https://ruralleaders.co.nz/nuffield-scholars/2019-nuffield-scholar-profile-hamish-marr/

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
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(00:23):
My name is Brian Gibson. I'mthe managing editor of Farmers Weekly, and
this week on the show we aretalking to Canterbury Arable farmer Hamish may Haymish.
How are you going good? ThanksBrian good and where are you calling
from today? I'm calling from Methvenbetter there seth wester Christchurch. Lovely summers
day, our lovely winter's day here, or should think? And you run

(00:45):
a farming operation there? Yep.We've got a five hundred mixed arable farm,
four hundred hecteas of different cereal cropsand small seed crops and we have
pastor enterprise on the side of that. So we've run dairy hiffers twelve months
of the year and we have finishinglambs in the autumn and dairy cows in

(01:10):
the winter. And how's the yearbeen for you? So far, Well,
it's been mixed. I mean wehad a tremendous harvest with great weather
harvest time and good yields across theboard, and pretty good autumn. So
ken Deerbury's flush with feed this yearas opposed to other seasons. Just gone.

(01:32):
That's good to hear. Yeah,and have you been doing that for
a while? Oh yeah, Sowe've been on. Our family has been
in our particular place since eighteen seventythree. I'm the fifth generation. Have
any of my children decide to carryon, they'll be there'll be sixth generation.
So you we're here for a weewhile. It's great to see your
farm that's handed down through the generationsand is still thriving. Oh yeah,

(01:56):
I mean to me personally, Iam did a become egg and the late
two thousands, sorry, the latenineties, and then was a field officer
officer for Ravens Down Fertilizer for fouryears and then came home to the farm
in about two thousand and five Ithink it was. So I've been farming
not quite twenty years now. Youwere enough field scholar a couple of years

(02:17):
ago. Yes, how do youfind that experience? Oh? Look,
there's probably not words that can describeit. A once in a lifetime life
changing, very humbling, eye opening, eye watering year of my life,
looking at at everything with food productionand how we live in farming and politics

(02:42):
and everything in one year. Itwas amazing, fascinating. Never you know,
beyond I think you ask every enoughfield scholar, they would say the
same thing, beyond the wildest dreams, amazing year. Now your study's focused
on the use of glypher seat,which is often a contentious issue in agriculture

(03:04):
these days, isn't it. Well, it's very contentious, and that's the
reason why I chose it. Ichose it because it was on the news
a lot at the time, andthere was rumors in New Zealand and certainly
around the world that it was goingto be deregistered. And our farming systems,
certainly farming systems in Canterbury here andmost of New Zealand actually use around

(03:34):
up underpinds how we do things andhow we moved between pastures and crops,
and you know, if we tookthat away, it would completely change the
way we do things. And Iwanted to understand how our production systems would
look if we would do away withit. Obviously, as part of your
studies you do a bit of travelabroad. What did you find out about

(03:57):
how different nations use glyphosate in theworld. Oh? Yeah, Look,
I am. I spend a yearlooking at farming systems all around the world,
and I looked at um you know, I hate, I hate the
term conventional farming, but I lookat conventional farming, organics, region,
egg and inverted commas, rice farming, horticulture, you know, orchards,

(04:25):
vegetable production, indoor animal agriculture,extensive and intensive farming all around the world.
And look, there's a whole lotof conclusions, and the first one
is that everywhere you go around theworld is different. New Zealand's very unique
in the way we do things,and really New Zealand's unique in the fact

(04:49):
that we're dominated by animal agriculture,and animal agriculture is predominantly outside, so
the animals go to the go tothe food, as opposed to many country
is where the food goes to theanimals. And because those countries are cutting
and carrying feed to animals, thesystems are predominantly arable based and by very

(05:13):
nature of that, the usage ofround up compared to what we do here
in New Zealand is significantly higher.So we have a real point of difference
in this country. You know,if you think about the round up story
in isolation, we don't use alot of it just because of the way
where our farming system is. Andalso the fact that our farming systems are

(05:34):
pasture based is again another point ofdifference compared to a lot of other places.
Do you think it's one of thosesituations which quite often comes up when
global conversations around food production make theirway to New Zealand that we are not
really part of the mix because wehave our own way of doing things.

(05:55):
Oh yes, Look, I visiteda place in the UK, the Large
Place, and this is this isa light bulb visit for me. They
reduced in glypha state usage on thisparticular farm, Big Place. Um,
when I say big about thirty thousandhit there is they reduced in glypher state

(06:15):
usage ninety percent suddenly by adding sheepand to their farming mix. And you
know, I am I suddenly thought, well, actually we're already doing that
in New Zealand. That's that's standardpractice. So you know, when you
look, when you look down intothe numbers and there um the application rates
on a per hit, the totalper the basis in this country, we're

(06:38):
so far down compared to a lotof other developed countries for that effect,
um, you know. But Ialso saw the impacts of to the other
extreme round up ready crops in thenorthern hemisphere United States, in Canada,
where you know, applications are fouror five times a year are not uncommon.
And when you multiply that by themillions of hector is involved, it's

(07:02):
pretty easy to understand how round upis now in the food chain. And
a lot of those countries now despitefinding out about the issues with some of
those roundup ready crops and you know, those problems that they can have in
some parts of the world. Herein New Zealand, while we don't have
those, round up is still prettyimportant to some of our farming systems,

(07:24):
isn't it. Well. I thinkwe're in that sense, we're a real
outlier compared to it, you know, and that starts from the simplest of
things. You know. We're asmall island nation in the middle of the
Pacific Oceans, so we've got thislovely temperate maritime climate, a lot of
air competitors are continental countries, sothey you know, in a simpless form,

(07:47):
their weather patterns are completely different,and the weather patterns dictate what you
do. Um the way people farmus, say, in Europe, it's
evolved over two thousand years. Well, agriculture in this country, we've only
been really at it for a coupleof hundred years, so you know,

(08:11):
we're a very young country compared toa lot of other places. And with
that, you know, when someof the things aren't ingrained in US as
a as a population of people.And then you have the flow on effects
of tilling the soil, which youknow has been found to be bad for
soil loss and also releases carbon.All yeah, all of that stuff.

(08:35):
The nuts and the bolts of itis that we actually can't on a global
scale or even a national scale,do away with that as a as a
strategic tool because what it does onsort of broadacre farming and I turned pastoral
farming in this as well, isit it reduces the amount of time in

(08:58):
between crops because it takes away thework that cultivation used to do prior to
its use. So prior to roundups use the way to control weeds and
to establish a new pasture or anew crop, it involved about six months
worth of cultivation because it was thecultivation that killed killed the remnants of the

(09:20):
pre pasture. Is it we're orcrop round up? Does that in one
application and you can so your nextpasture or crop or whatever it is that
day if needs be so. Um, you know, to go backwards away
from that. You know, youthink about takes six months of production out

(09:45):
and you know that has huge impacts. And I'm not saying that's that's true
in every situation, because at onehundred person isn't true in every situation,
but it is a reality and alot of a lot of cases. How
was her report received whence it cameout? Well, I have done probably
between fifty and sixty our little talksaround the country and town halls and two

(10:09):
lions clubs and to farm groups andall I've been to a garden club,
two garden clubs, um, allsorts of different groups have been interested.
And what I have to say,um, And I think I just tell
the story of exactly how farming systemswork and how all these things that we

(10:33):
do on farm actually work and whywe do them. UM. You know,
I found myself in a lot ofcases having to compare farming to your
vegetable garden and um, you know, and think about cropping farmers a vegetable
garden and your dairy farm or yoursheep farmers as your lawn. So your

(10:54):
lawn stays down for um, youknow, infinitum, as does a lot
of pasture, so we don't actuallydo anything to them. A vegetable garden,
on the other hand, is beingturned over all the time into something
new, and there's a there's avery clear rotation involved in all of those
things. So I had to thinkabout things that weave it. But hopefully

(11:15):
I got the story across. Nowyou've completed your report. What's life been
like for you since then? Youback on the farm? Oh? No,
I have been on the farm,and that's that's keeps me very busy.
But also I am am the vicechairman of the New Zealand Seed Authority,
and that is an industry good groupinvolved in the setting policy within the

(11:41):
certified seed industry and I sit onthat board as a representative from the herbage
seed subsection of Federated Farmers. Sowe is the name to represent the farmers
that grow herbage, seeds, ryegrasses, clovers, cox, flots, fiscus,

(12:03):
etc. I'm involved in two groupsat the Foundation for Terrible Research,
the Research and Development Advisory Committee andAG the Terrible Research Group here in mid
Canterbury. I'm on a couple ofother things in our local town, so
I know, I keep pretty busy. To be honest, they don't call

(12:24):
it rural leaders for nothing, Iguess certainly sets you up to be one.
No Ah, Yeah, but it'sa privilege. You know, it
is a privilege to represent farmers onthose things, and I do enjoy it.
So anyone involved in food production shouldconsider a kellog or a nutfield.
It opens your eyes to so manyother things, and it challenges your own

(12:45):
perspective. You know. I've beenaway with these preconceived ideas about what we
do and why we do it,and then went and looked at all these
other things and came home with,you know, completely different understanding and perspective
of how things are done and howthings will fit together, and what we're

(13:05):
doing right and what we're doing wrong. So everyone, everyone should get involved.
Just before we wrap up, Hamish, what are some of the issues
you're facing right now as a narrowfarmer. Well, it's a great question,
Brian. I think the first one, and I think every arable farmer
would agree with me, is oneof viability. I mentioned at the start

(13:26):
we had a great harvest, andwe did, but we face, like
a lot of other farmers, increasingcosts, but very very static prices for
air produce at the other end.So you see our prices have increased,
to believe it, but nowhere tothe extent that their input costs have and

(13:50):
a lot of props we grow nowwe are barely breaking even when you're take
into the account that fixed fixed costsof production. We grow a lot of
high value small seeds in this countryfor our own export, but also for
domestic use. Our domestic production takesup about twenty percent of the total produced

(14:16):
of the eighty percent that's left.Prices have really fallen away and demand has
fallen away over the last twelve monthsto the extent that there is seed sheds
full of seed that would have beenexported that is not going to be exported.
And the next and the next twelvemonths and those those supply chain issues

(14:39):
will have affixed on the ground forfarmers, and they will be challenges with
what arable farmers do actually produce ontheir farms in the next twelve months,
two years, three years, becausethese things take a little while too,
too unwind. So options for croppingfarmers the next two years are going to

(15:01):
be challenged by not only profitability,but but but actually by options as well.
So it's not all beer and skittlesout there. And it's interesting too.
You know, we had a wonderfulharvest, as I said, but
that wonderful harvest has filled up thestores in this country. And you know

(15:26):
we've seen prices drop and demicively forgrain because of the suplus. So you
know, what's good on one handis not so good on the other.
So the the industry has got itsown challenges. I would funish that by
saying now, of course that youknow, the world wants plant based food,
so the future of arable farming Isee as rosy and we just have

(15:50):
to get there. So hopefully justa matter of writing out this next couple
of years and you can thrive afterthat. Yeah, yeah, that's it.
Thanks for listening to Ideas that GrowA Rural Leaders podcast in partnership with
Messy and Lincoln universities, Agmart,and food HQ. This podcast was presented

(16:11):
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