November 25, 2025 • 50 mins
Join us as we talk with our guest, Jay Jones, on how he uncovers the latest digital job scams and the overlapping tactics with scams targeting the older adults.
Learn best practices for intergenerational collaboration and tech-savvy detection skills to protect yourself and your loved ones.
Let’s Talk About Scams is broadcast live Tuesdays at 8AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Let’s Talk About Scams TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Let’s Talk About Scams Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Disclaimer: The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional / legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references; however, R.O.S.E. Resources / Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/let-s-talk-about-scams--6483699/support.
Learn best practices for intergenerational collaboration and tech-savvy detection skills to protect yourself and your loved ones.
Let’s Talk About Scams is broadcast live Tuesdays at 8AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Let’s Talk About Scams TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Let’s Talk About Scams Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Disclaimer: The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional / legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references; however, R.O.S.E. Resources / Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/let-s-talk-about-scams--6483699/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek
(00:22):
the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any
suggested ideas. The information contained in this podcast is intended
for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for
individual professional legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled
from vetted sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to
(00:44):
safeguard the elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall
victim to a scam. Let's talk about scams. It's the
must listen show for anyone who wants to protect themselves
and their loved ones from scams. Every Tuesday am Pacific
time on K four HD Radio, Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose,
(01:05):
and her guests will provide valuable insights and practical tips
on how to recognize and protect yourself from scams. And
now here is your host, Joyce Petrowski.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Hi, everyone, welcome back to Let's Talk About Scams Radio show.
I'm Joyce Petrowski, the founder and board president of Rose
Resources Outreach to Safeguard the elderly. I'm sure you enjoyed
Brian the last couple weeks. I know he talked about
that great new law we have here in Arizona with
the cryptocurrency ATMs. It's going to be very interesting over
(01:42):
the next six to twelve months to see how many
of those are taken down that the owner operators decide, Hey,
I'm not going to have these in my store. My
hope is that all of them will go away. But
today we are going to talk about job scams, meeting
senior scams. But before we get into that, don't forget
(02:06):
to go to our website, Roseadvocacy dot org and you
can scroll down to the bottom of the homepage and
sign up for our newsletters.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
We do one via email and one in the mail,
and you.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Can all our social media links are there, and you're
going to want to click subscribe to our YouTube channel
so you don't miss an episode of Let's Talk About
Scams Show. So our guest today, Jay Jones, is a
copywriter and globally recognized cybercrime investigator and fraud prevention specialist,
best known as the Profiler. After dedicating years to building
(02:41):
a career in advertising and achieving his dream role at
an ad agency, Jay's trajectory changed dramatically when he was
laid off unexpectedly just before the birth of his daughter
in December of twenty twenty three. Jay is a pioneer
in platform accountability. Is an internationally known expert on LinkedIn
(03:03):
fraud and scam detection, with his work and advocacy featured
in NBC News and Yahoo News.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
His impact is measured by results.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
To date, Jay has personally gotten thirty two thousand, six
hundred and forty fake jobs and over seven thousand fraudulent
profiles removed from LinkedIn, protecting thousands of real professionals and
businesses across the globe.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
So let's welcome Jay.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Hey Joyce, thank you for the great intro. Thank you
for having me. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Thank you for joining.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I think this is going to be a very interesting
show with some interesting topics.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
So why don't you just tell us a little bit
more about what you do?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Sure? So, my work through the Profiler Protection Service is
my business where I help real professionals, real companies, and
real entrepreneurs and solorepreneurs be protected online from job scams
or impersonate or any type of intellectual theft because it's
a rampant problem in this day and age. AI makes
it a lot easier for bad actors to do this,
(04:08):
And so for me, what I'm doing is intervening and
stopping this from being as pervasive as it is, so
more people are educated and protected.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
So, I mean, job scams are running rampant, just like
all kinds of scams, right, And there's a lot of
there's a lot of overlap between job scams and senior scams.
There are a lot of seniors that are deciding to
go back into the workforce for a variety of different reasons.
And you know they are most likely going to look
(04:40):
online to try to find jobs.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Yeah, because given their age, typically they might have some
physical ailments or other limitations, and they're trying to find
things that are primarily remote, you know, gone in the
days where you know, the retirement age is sixty five.
It just keeps moving further and further out it does.
And so you know, as they keep living, which we
want them to do, you know they unfortunately have to
go back to work and what they typically target or
(05:06):
remote jobs or things that can keep them home bound
so they can generate revenue and not compromise they'll have
their health further. But that's where the scams come in
with the big jobs. Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Okay, And in your in the bio that I read,
how long well, it says you started it was sometime
either December of twenty twenty three or after that you
started this.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Yeah. I was laid off on the summer fourth, twenty
twenty three, and then I started to look for work.
Immediately that same day, I turned on the green banner
on LinkedIn and I got a lot of attention. And
prior to that, i'd heard rumblings about how bad the
job market was, but I thought that that was just
maybe just people just spreading rumors and fear based messaging.
But then I started to see that all of these
(05:50):
messages that I got were from recruiters quote unquote, but
they weren't affiliated with any companies. They were stealing pictures
of attractive women, yeah, and trying to get your information
as fast as possible in order to get you into
these fake job opportunities. So my first case. It happened
in January of twenty twenty four, because I decided that,
you know, even though they couldn't get me, I didn't
want them to get anybody else to take advantage of them.
(06:13):
And I felt a responsibility to help people because if
I didn't say something, then there would be this big
void and they would persist these rampant scams.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Right, well, that's great that you said something, right, and
you continue to say something. I mean, seven thousand fraudulent profiles.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Wow, yeah. Three thousand of those alone were frank resume
riders for one fake company that I got taken off
LinkedIn that was called a ten Star Resume Limited and
they had been on LinkedIn for years prior to me.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Wow. Wow, So do you.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Do you have a good working relationship? Then with LinkedIn
that they're gonna they're gonna want to take a take
a second look at ones that you bring to their attention.
I'm guessing or you've had to really fight too and nail.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Tooth and nail. And then in the cases that I
lay out, because I make a visual case file to
show irrefutable proof that these profiles are fake, the content
that they have on their profile was stolen, and it's
preceded by a real person who posted this content on
their profile years ago, if not many years ago. Because
these bad actors, they don't know how to communicate well.
(07:23):
They rely on scripting through AI and SA contacts from
established professionals and using that they can pretend to be
authentic and trick people who have no idea the person
they're talking to is a SCAMMERA. So it's been it's
been a tooth and nail fight.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, so you said, you know, like with the grammar.
That's one of the things that you know, we teach
in our presentations is AI and we talk about the
chat GBT and the generative text AI out there and
about how you know, you used to be able, whether
it was a text message and email. You know, something
(07:59):
you got in the mail you saw this bad grammar
and you were like, okay, this doesn't make sense right,
And now everything is polished because they're just putting prompts
into AI and you know, it's it's amazing. I see
a lot of the older adults just kind of their
(08:19):
eyes go wide. It's like they can put prompts into
you know, like write me an email that I want
to send to the seniors or older adults, whatever term
they use in the Midwest or in the East, or
in the western part of the United States, you know
whatever geographically, And I want to entice them to donate
(08:42):
to a charity. I want to pull out their heartstrings,
and AI within seconds will generate an exact email that.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
They can use.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
And so I think AI is while it came out
for good, you know, obviously technology scammers have access to it.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yeah, And that's the unique advantage I have being a copywriter,
because you know, I write, and I know how the
structure sentences, paragraphs, phrases and things like that. And so
when I see certain things, I can tell when it's
AI generated, because AI typically use a lot a lot
of gerns, so unintentional add ons to the end of
a sentence to try to make it more powerful or
more meaningful. They'll use a lot of M dashes, They'll
(09:24):
use a lot of emojis, and a lot of vague
content what I call word salad. So it's a big
block of text. But when you actually look at it
from an objective perspective, you see that they aren't really
saying anything. They're talking about a subject but they're not
a subject matter expert, which is a clear difference. Yeah,
(09:44):
they play on the heart strings. Yeah yeah, And then
you know they play on the heart strings of the
elderly because you know, they want to know that they're
talking to someone real, that someone is investing time and
speaking with them, Because if you're really trying to be
a quick hitter, then that can fall flat. But if
you hit them with a large body of text that
is tailored to their profile or maybe their history, because
(10:06):
there's so much about us.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Online, their life, their hobbies. Yeah, but you know their
interests think yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Yeah, and it leads them to thinking that this is
a real person they're talking to, but that that's the trouble.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
So that story about almost half of those fraudulent profiles
you had taken down came from just one one profile
had like had made up like thirty different profiles or
thirty different not thirty three thousand different was it jobs
(10:42):
or No?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Ten Star Resume Limited was a quote unquote company that
offered resume writing services to anybody who was in the
job market. But the problem was they was, yeah they
was still information from real resume writers profiles. They would
fake certificates. They were still pictures of attractive women in
the realty space or foreign models, Pakistani actresses, you know,
the whole.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Through that they made up three thousand different profiles correct, yes,
and it was one company correct yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
And you know I and I eventually tracked it down,
you know, because I was running into the issue of
finding the head of the snake, so to speak, because
I knew all the fake profiles, I knew where they were,
how they were messaging people, and I would go after
them to inform people about how this scam particularly works.
But in order to really take it down, you have
to show the faces behind it. Yeah, And so ultimately
(11:34):
I had to do research and find some paperwork that
showed who the owners were of this quote unquote business
in the guy's name was in the seer jot and
you know, went on a campaign to make sure that
his business was taken down. And it was good.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Good, that's great. So have you have you talked to.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Any victims of these types of job scams where they
actually sent money for whatever reason, thinking that they're going
to get this job that they had to pay, you know, fees,
they had to pay for equipment, whatever, have you talked
to any of the victims countless ones.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Either people see my cases, they know the work that
I do, and they'll reach out to me and share
their experiences with me. Two of the most notable cases
that I had. It was some months back, but it
was the home equipment fee scam. One woman she was
taking a job with a sheen, so she thought as
a customer service representative. She had a job, left that
job to take this job, but it was a fake one,
(12:36):
and she got a check for about two thousand dollars.
And you know how the home desktop scam works or
home equipment scam. I'm sure your audience knows. But a
quick rundown is these bad actors will send you a check,
say you have to use their approved vendor to buy
this equipment, but the vendor is them, and they logged
your payment details through this portal or their own website.
And then they'll go as far as give you an
(12:57):
official start date. So you're excited, you think job search
is over. Then when your start day comes, you hear nothing.
You start to get confused and concerned, and then the
next call you get is from your bank saying the
check bounce and the second case was a woman who
took a job with Epsilon who so she thought, and
it was another instance of the desktop equipment check scam
(13:18):
where she was conned out of two thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
So she was conned out of two thousand did they
send her a check and she deposited and started writing
checks against it, and then that money was no longer
there now.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
In both instances, the checks were around twenty or twenty
five hundred dollars. And how they say this scam works
is you get the check, you deposit it, you buy
the equipment, and then the difference will balance out once
you pay.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
So let's say the correct but then a couple days
later you find out that that check was not good
and so now you're out a two thousand dollars because
you've already went and bought this equipment.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
So that's whatever other charges they make on your car too.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yeah yeah, wow. Have you have you heard that.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
There have been any of these people that have had
their accounts taken over? I'm sure the credit cards were compromised,
but where their actual accounts, financial accounts were taken over?
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Financial accounts. I've seen that happen before, but more prominently.
I see hijack profiles on LinkedIn and also Facebook slash meta,
where people will hack the credentials and then take over
the profile and then start making messages to the contacts
pretending to be that person to com them. One instance
was a woman she's a college student, that she had
(14:42):
her Facebook account hacked and they were sending messages claiming
to be selling Taylor Swift tickets, playing on a popular
artist to get people to listen and stuff. And one
woman I helped get access back to her meta account
that was banned. She was hacked and they were trying
to calm her connections. And she's a business owner. She
owns a linery and a Oh Wow cal form I believe,
(15:03):
I forget the state she's in. But she reached out
to me because she heard about my work, and I
reached out to some people that met work behind the
scenes to get her account back so she could continue
to do business. But those are the kind of things
that happen, and scammers they know that typically because of
my work, the fake profiles don't perform as well anymore,
so they're leaning more into taking over real accounts that
(15:25):
are dormant and have the verification mark and also pay
for premium, And so that's the way they're trying to
advance their.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Scamming, so that they pay for premium. Like with LinkedIn, Right,
you can pay for premium, and it tells you because
I get those notifications, you know, every now and then
this says, hey, you know twenty people checked out your profile.
Reactivate your premium and you can see who it was.
And I haven't done it, but you know, it's pretty
pricey to reactivate it. But what's the Why would a
(15:57):
scammer be looking for someone that's got the premium? Is
it because they have more Their account is able to
do more things, see more things.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Correct, You have more, Yeah, you have extended reach. You
have more messages that you're able to send because with
a base account, I think you can only send about
thirty or forty messages per week.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
But with a premium, you can have like two hundred
or more, right, Yeah, like a tree or something like that.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
And you have more yeah, correct, and you can send
more connection requests as well. But it also comes with
the authority that people view when they see premium, because
if you're paying to have this extended reach, you must
be a real professional, because who would pay for something
and use it through fraudulent means? Right, And that's how
scammeras operate because if you can one person and they
(16:49):
have marginal credit, what I say, you can get a
credit card for three hundred dollars or more if you
steal their identity, so that fee is just a negligible cost.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Right. It's somebody that has the higher credit scores, then
you're more apt to get a higher credit limit, even
you know, with impersonating them.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And that's interesting because.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
TransUnion just had a breach and you know, there was
a lot of personal information stolen with that, and I
would imagine credit scores are part of it, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Correct, And they target people with certain job titles like
executive or they'll pretend to have certain job titles like
VP and whatnot. And speaking of TransUnion, a common scam
that I've seen over the past year is they'll have
fake jobs posted on LinkedIn that lead to a Google site,
and the Google site form will have this fake application,
(17:48):
but part of the application process is paying twenty nine
to ninety nine for a background check through TransUnion. Okay,
but it's a way to get your credit card information
because a background check only happens after you've gotten offer officially. Well,
then you have the background check, and you never are
supposed to.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Pay for that, right, And that all makes sense. And
but whether someone is in a dire need for a job,
right like financially they're they're running out of funds. They
need to have a job to be able to live
and get their basic needs. Their emotions then are like,
(18:25):
oh my god, this is the perfect job, and they
must really like me. They want me to do a
background check. Sure, I'll pay thirty you know, twenty nine
ninety nine. And their emotions take over, and so.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
They say that in the language I'm sorry, no I was.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Gonna say, And so they're not thinking rationally, right, they
get them into an emotional state, you know, whatever it
is another you know, it could be like, this is
the perfect job, but you need to act now. We've
got ten people behind you waiting in line, and if
you don't act in the next twenty four hours.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
So they have a lot of the kind of same.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Scam techniques that you see in a wide variety of scams.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Yeah, and they say that on the Google site forms
that I've seen, they say, in order to be considered
as a candidate or an applicant, you have to do
this payment portion of it, and that's a way to
force the issue with you. But if you take a
step back, because the way to counter this is to
slow things down. I tell people to take executive power
over their job search because just because you're out of work,
(19:25):
it doesn't mean you've lost your value. You only lost
your job. And when you put in this position of
what I call layoff PTSD, because it's traumatic, you're thinking
about all the people you're responsible for and how you're
going to provide for them, and you see how bad
the job market is, then you're like jumping at everything
that seems real. But if you step back and you
ask yourself, well, why is this position so fast tracked?
(19:47):
When I see countless, if not millions of other people
saying it's taking them twelve months or longer to find
a job, what is it? Where is this oasis? And
why they find me? And that's how you can step
outside of yourself and see that it's it's not real.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Right, And you know that's the we created a couple
of years ago it's called an anatomy of a scam
because we found when we were doing these presentations that
we would talk about like the top five scams that
are targeting the seniors. But the minute you leave, right
there's three new scams out there. You wake up the
(20:23):
next day and you know they've taken like the pig butchering,
they've taken some investment scams and some of the techniques
from the romance scam and put you know, put them
together and came up with this new scam. So we
created this Anatomy of a scam, which really breaks scams
down into three parts. And the first one is they
(20:43):
have to contact you right wide variety and your your
cell phones are a big way that they're going to
contact you. And so, you know, we tell people you
got to treat those like a mobile computer, because it
is a computer. If you know it's attached the internet.
You know, you can message, you can get your emails,
(21:04):
you can go into encrypted apps like WhatsApp, you can
do your social media profiles in there. You can message
through those social media profiles. You know, getting the phone
calls a whole bunch of you know, different ways to
contact you. So you have to treat it like a
mobile computer and lock it down like you would your
iPad or your laptop or your desktop. And the second
(21:29):
part is that creating that compelling reason to act. And
this is where we say, if you can cut it
off at the contact, then you've you're not moving into
that second phase, which is the emotional phase, which you
know with one of the tips, we say, be aware
of your emotions. And it's like, you know, I get
(21:51):
it if you're If they got you in that emotional state,
it's hard for you to then think rationally and go, wait,
I need to be aware of my emotions, right, which
is why you always need to have somebody to talk
to before you act on anything, because sometimes just saying
the situation out loud, your mind flips over and you're like, Okay,
(22:11):
that doesn't make sense, right.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
That's what I tell people too, I say read the
email out loud because it's a psychological thing because when
you're reading something but it's in your mind, you're already
accepting the information, but where you're verbally saying it, it's
external and so you haven't accepted it.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Right, which is like talking to your trusted person right
that they can they're going to realize it's a scam
because you know they're not emotional about it. They're not
emotionally vested in it like you are. And they're going
to start asking you questions and you're going to answer
the questions, and then through that back and forth, psychologically
(22:49):
your mind flips and you're like, Okay, now I get
it right.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
Yeah, And then another common tactic regarding the anatomy of
a scam is the uneu exchange of information. And so
you look and you get this email because I get
emails all the time about exciting writing opportunities, but I
know the verbiage, I know how they present it, so
I know it's fake even from the title of the email.
But the common hallmark is you're giving all this information,
(23:16):
you're divulging so much, and you know next to nothing
about this person. They'll go as far as use somebody
else's picture, use detailed signatures, and even link to real
LinkedIn profiles. But really, what do you know about this
person other than the fact that they contacted you about
an email, or they contacted you about prescription, or they
contacted you about vulnerability that leads to one of your
(23:39):
accounts being compromised and they can help you get it back.
It's like, who is this person, where are they actually working, like,
don't take anything and face valuable right.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
And it's unfortunate, right, especially with the older adult population
telling them that you can't trust anything anymore. That's heart wrenching.
I'm in that population. So we grew up trusting people.
We would meet somebody and we trusted them. In ninety
(24:09):
nine point nine percent of the time, you were good
to go because the world was just so much different
in the seventies and eighties.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
Yeah, the door unlocked a night, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, you left your right your car unlocked in the
driveway your house, you know, Oh I forgot to lock
the door. Oh who It's fine, you know, nobody's going
to break in. And ninety nine point nine percent of
the time that was that was accurate. And then telling
this population that you you can't trust anybody anymore until
they've earned your trust, you verified what's going on, right,
(24:44):
and it's just it's it's devastating that they have to
change their whole way of life.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
This is why I tell people to stay vigilant, because
there's a difference between the vigilance and paranoia. Paranoia is
I can't trust anybody, what do I do? And vigilance
is I shouldn't trust anybody. Here's what I do. And
so it's providing you actionable information and giving you the
power that you think you lost, because that's what happens
is when you get older, you think like you're more
(25:13):
susceptible to things. People take advantage of the elderly because
they think they're easier targets. And if you have mental
issues like to mention whatnot, then that.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
That just compromise you. Yeah, it does. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
And so like you said, you know, we don't stop
it just saying you can't trust anybody anymore. You need
to verify what's going on, and then they can earn
your trust, but you have to verify that they are legitimate.
They are who they say they are, the situation is accurate,
You've verified it through legitimate channels. So I was going
(25:48):
to ask you with this artificial intelligence, is there like
an app or something And I just thought of this
out of the blue that but somebody could like put
a upload a picture to it and it would come
back and say, no, this is the actual picture, or
this has been this has been altered through artificial intelligence,
(26:14):
or the same with like a voice recording, or you know,
throwing an email into it is there. I mean, I
don't even know if that can be done.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Well, there's currently reversed image searching, so that's a way
that I find a lot of these fake profiles that
steal people's pictures because these scameras, they'll go as far
as using face swop technology, which I've revealed in my
different cases. They'll use age filters, so they'll make a
picture older or they'll make it younger to throw off
any reverse image detection. But I find those and typically
(26:47):
what you do is you open the picture in a
new tab, right click it, and then click Google Visual
Search or Google image search, and it'll give you whatever
results or wherever else this picture appeared. So like let's
say the profile on LinkedIn if you're an older person
looking for a job, and the person's name is Jane Thompson.
But then because they use generic American sounding names to
(27:08):
try to get trust that way, but if you google
that image and then you see Jane Thompson, Kate Owens
and other names like.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Thirty or forty pictures all the same pictures, correct, you.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Have evidence there of a fake profile that's been used
many times. And then typically it leads you to a
stock photo, because if it's used that many times, it's
typically a stock photo or a picture of some professional
from years ago, because they'll go back in time and
take a picture from years ago of somebody so they
can avoid the current person finding out.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Okay, does that Google image search? Does it actually tell
you which is the actual legitimate picture that you know?
You might have all of these same pictures, but it
actually this legitimate picture belongs to this person.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
It can if it's not heavily used, like I give
it like a seventy five to eighty percent accuracy rate,
because there are different other methods that I use to
find different pictures, because it's not just that Google imasearch,
because there are a lot of times where I know
a picture is fake, but Google im research will give
you no results. But I always say, like, if you
have to even go through that route, I would just
(28:23):
like just discontinue engaging altogether, because in a job search,
you may miss real opportunities by being vigilant. But it's
better to err on the side of caution and be like, no,
it's okay, I'll just go along with it and then
have your savings.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Drained well exactly right. That's you don't want to. And
I've actually talked to seniors. This one lady in particular,
a few years back, she had received an email, you know,
with the tech support refund scam, and it came they
(28:58):
were impersonating one of the larger companies, and she had
actually had antivirus software with that company legitimately, but she
thought she had canceled it, and so she immediately thought
it was real and called the phone number in the email,
and and you know, they said, well, we you know,
we already took the money, so let's put it back
(29:20):
in your account. And you know, too many zeros and
they're going to get in trouble, they're going to get fired.
And so you know, she went and got the money
and and they're I think did it online maybe I'm
not sure how it was, and gave it back to them.
But then they were able to access her home equity
line of credit.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
And they they they.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Maxed it out and and so she lost even more money.
But yet she's having to pay this back every month
on some money she never got.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
So yeah, it yes, because they're playing on the fear
of losing your information security by saying that you were
charged charge that was not authorized, and then they played
they double the legitimacy by using a company you're actually
affiliated with or were affiliated with, and from there they
get you on the phone, they say they need to
remote into your computer. They will walk you through this
(30:18):
mirrored or entirely fake website and then they'll say if
you just download this product, and typically it's any desk
that they use, and you give them access to remote in,
and then they'll use like a screen blocker, but you
can't see it, so they'll have you type in this information,
but you don't know that they actually typed into extra zero.
And because I think you did it, you feel bad.
(30:40):
So that's the negative feeling. And they're like, no, I'm
going to get fired. And you know, you know, they
do all that to play on your art strings. And
you go to your bank and take out some money,
send it through a Western Union or wise.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Some quick way, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
And then by the time you realize what happened, it's
too late.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
It's too late, right, the money because the wiring the
Western Union, it's instant, right, and you know there's no
I was going to say, there's some you know in
Western unions they have the signs, and their tellers might
suspect that they're being scammed and they'll ask questions. And
same thing with banks, right, the banks are getting really
(31:20):
good at teaching their employees on how to recognize scams
and questions to ask. But this lady in particular that
I talked to, she said, the bank teller, she knew
I was being scammed and asked me questions.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
She goes, but I flat out lied.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Because the scammer kept her in that emotional state and
told her that the teller was going to be asking
these questions suspecting it's a scam. Just tell her this,
and tell the teller this, and and you know, then
you'll be able to just we'll be able to finish
the transaction.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
So it's yeah, it's it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
And so our whole thing is to get them to
recognize at the contact right that they need to, like
you said, pause and stop and research and investigate and
verify what's going on before they act on anything, because
once you flip over into that emotional state, it becomes
so much harder to think rationally and determine it's a scam.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Correct, Yeah, it's financial abuse is just like domestic abuse
where somebody gets into your life and they slowly isolate you.
And that's what the scammers do. They isolate you from
your real help. And so in that scenario, they're saying like, oh,
the teller is incompetent. They're sowing seeds of distrust and
the actual people you should trust. So if they're asking
these questions, they painted like, oh, they're just being overly cautious.
(32:49):
I'm legitimate. How else would I know you had? You
know this anti virus company? How else would I know
this if I wasn't legitimate? And so they put you
mentally on their side, and it's disgusting.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yeah, it is. It's that that's a good word for it.
It's it's disgusting. So you mentioned the Google image search
and stuff like that. Is there are there any other
like tech savvy detection skills that you I don't know
that you I know you said you were on NBC
(33:23):
News and Yahoo News and uh so any other like
tech savvy detection skills that you have that you use
to help people, or maybe that you talk about when
you get the information out about what you do.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Sure, anytime I discover someone who has been impersonated or
someone who has had their likeness or image taken. I'll
reach out to that person and say, hey, this profile
is impersonating you. Here's a link to it, here screenshots
of it. If I see emails that are being used
but they aren't affiliated with the real person at all,
else sudden to them. I've gotten emails taken down through
takedown requests. I've gotten a couple of websites taken down
(34:05):
through takedown requests. There was a Kleinily scam involving artists
and talent for some time. It's still ongoing, but I'm
still working on that one where scammer pretends to be
a real artist and talent celebrity, but they're celebrity. Oh okay, No,
artists and talent is a recruitment firm. Oh, basically they're
(34:25):
pretending to Yeah, they're pretending to be a recruiter that
works for that firm and emailing people about job opportunities
and major companies to make it sound attractive, but really
they're impersonating her entirely to scam people out of their information.
So I'll share that with the people. I'll let them
know how to report different things. Where to find a
link to the fake profile and then I'll also file
(34:47):
a case with LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Okay, So I know there's a lot of fake profiles
on Facebook and Meta. We've actually reported, you know, when
we see them and we know they're fake, we report them,
but we inevitably get the found nothing back.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
We found nothing.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Wrong, it doesn't violate our community standards, and so we're
not going to take it down. And it's like it seems,
but I think it's their technology that's automatically going through
and looking at the profile and they haven't broken any
community standards because the technology that they're using only goes
so far. So a good example is in at the
(35:30):
end of August, we had our company, Rose's Facebook page
went down and my personal page went down, and I'm like,
what's going on. I haven't done anything on my personal page.
The majority of what I do is share posts from Rose.
But because we're in the scam prevention business, you know,
(35:51):
Rose puts out you know, probably four to five times
a week, you know, we post and it's information about
you know, helpful tips or about new data breach and
hacks or new scam alerts and stuff like that, and
so the technology is picking up on specific words that
they see, and then they're automatically assuming that we're violating
(36:14):
community standards because they see these words in there.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
Yeah, yeah, it's insane.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
And then it's like when you appeal it, it goes
to an actual person and then I get the response back, well,
our technology made a mistake, And it's like, do you
think maybe you should before you take someone's profile down,
you should have a real person look at what the
technology came up with and actually look at the profile.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
Well, this is the problem with the AI and all
the layoffs, is like you're wholly handing over the business
to AI, but yet you openly admit that it's making
all of these obvious mistakes that it supposedly should correct
because if you trust them in enough to let go
of real humans, then why is it punishing real humans?
And I said this in relation to LinkedIn, I'd say
(37:03):
the reporting process it focuses on content but not intent.
And so what I mean is like a knife can
cut a cake or it can cut a person, it's
about the intent. And so these reporting metrics of this AI,
what it does is it looks at the content of
in this example, a job description. Now, if you look
at job description as it's written. Of course, there's no violation.
(37:26):
They're not using any foul language, they're not insulting, doing
anything like that. But the intent of this job description
is to lead you to, like I said before, that
payment portal which stills credit card information, the job was
posted by a fake profile, which is identity theft right there.
The business doesn't exist, or it was a website that
was quickly thrown together, so the business is not real.
(37:49):
All of those intentional actions are meant to harm you.
But if you're just looking at content, of course you're
not going to find something wrong.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Well the end, that's the thing is like AI is
and I'm not I don't know a lot about AI,
and I'm not a app developer, and you know, in
the technology end of it. But it seems to me
that AI is only as good as what people are prompting.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
In the room.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, and and and what what people are putting into it.
So where you can think in certain instances that AI
can detect the outcome, the true outcome without human intervention.
I think somebody has missed the mark on that because
you're you're you're missing you're you're missing the human component
(38:42):
to it, like you said, with a knife, right, it
can cut a person, and it can cut the cake.
And if you're looking at the content, nothing's wrong. But
if it's cutting a person, obviously that's wrong, right, correctly,
and so and.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
It's a shame because you know, you talk about their
technology and having the ability to change it, but they
have sixteen billion reasons not to. I mean, we saw
the report that just came out about the scam ads
and they made sixteen billion from that. So you know,
you have to look at where the money is going.
And so if the money is going here, and where
(39:18):
it's going is to the denigration and the hurt of
real people, well then you have a balancing You have
a decision to make at that point. It's either, like
I say, all money is in good money, So are
you going to take this money and allow the people
to fall by the wayside, or are you going to
forego that and protect the people.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, And you know it's interesting because when I was
trying to work through it took me probably a month
or six weeks to get my personal account back up.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
Exactly, and as money lost, reputation damage like well.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Right, and you know I was very honest with our
supporters and stuff. I'd put it in the newsletters and say,
you know, the Facebook got taken down. I don't know why.
We're trying to figure it out. We're trying to get
it back up. We haven't done anything wrong. And it
was they took three of the pictures down because they
said it violated their cybersecurity community standards. And when I
(40:11):
appealed it, they, of course, like I said, came back
and said, well, we've determined our technology made a mistake, right,
and then yeah, and it's like and then as soon
as it came back up, like a week later, it
was like they're taking a few more pictures down. It's like,
how do I get in touch with somebody over there
(40:31):
and say to them people, this is what we do.
And if you had somebody look up what we do.
Look at our website. It's a valid website. We own it, right,
it's we own this you know Facebook and LinkedIn account,
and it's legitimate, right, it's scam prevention. So yes, we're
(40:51):
going to have the word scams, We're going to have
the word breach hacked, We're going to have all that
stuff in our post. But I can't get a hold
of any anybody over there and you know, get them
to you know, I don't know, somehow flag our account
to say, listen, if your technology is going to take
this account down, you need to have a human intervene
(41:13):
and look at it.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
Like like I said earlier, it's insane. And the reason
I said evidence is because the AI or the automated
detection systems as it's referred to as, anytime a report
is made, they're going to err on this could be real,
let's take it down. But then when you appeal it, oh,
it could be it's real now, so we'll put it back.
So that means there's no review happening, because if a
(41:37):
real human looked at it, there would be no way
that this would just be automatically taken down. Then the
bad side about that reporting thing is when you get
reported now, all of a sudden, you're on the radar
for wrong reasons, and then other things come down by
just because you were flagged. And it's a shame because
(41:57):
it hurts real people, but the scammers can continue to
operate unchecked. And it's not much different on LinkedIn, Like
there are certain words that get flagged, like if you
call a scammer a scammer. The bubble will come up
that says, when you try to post the comment, are
you sure you want to post this comment because it's
been flagged previously by members of the community. If you
say the word idiot, if you if you use a
(42:20):
phrase pig butchering like that gets flagged because it's thought
to be like harmful. But at the same time, people
can openly put the phrase LinkedIn accounts for sale, LinkedIn
account leasing by LinkedIn accounts.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
And it's fine.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
And the list goes on and on, and these are
clear violations. You're not supposed to sell your account, you're
not supposed to lease it, And that stuff just goes
on unchecked.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Well, because each one of those words by themselves are
not harmful, but a few of the other words by
themselves can be looked at as harmful, but they're not
looking at the whole context of it, right, you know.
And it's interesting you say, you know, err on the
side of caution, take the take the profile down until
(43:05):
you can review it, and then if it's valid, put
it back up on the You would think the same
thing would work for the ads side of it, right,
even though they're paying money and buying ads. If it look,
if the technology finds this stuff, take it down and
err on the side of caution, review it, and then
bring it back up. But like you said, there, it's
(43:28):
where you said, sixteen million or billion dollars just came
out and they're making me yeah.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
Yeah, yeah, so it's hard to err on the side
of caution when the money is so.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Good, right, And I often say the two things that
get people into trouble or are money and power.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
They aren't bad, but it's when you all.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Know they're not bad, but they make some people think
it's okay to do things they normally wouldn't do because
of power.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
And then the money.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Right, I have this power, I'm not going to get
in trouble and I'm going to make all this money.
So yeah, yeah, I'm not saying I'm not saying the
social media profiles are doing that.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
I'm just saying in general.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
Yeah, for the people that misuse power, I misused money,
it's because before they had both, they were already that
kind of person and so now that they have the
ability to act.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
And it's just enhances it.
Speaker 4 (44:27):
Yeah, it makes them be who they were already.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah, they're moral compass points south. What I like to say,
but so we've only got about five minutes left, and
I well, actually you and I only have excuse me,
a couple of minutes left. But what are some things
that people can do if they're out there looking for
(44:52):
a job and they're you know, looking, whether it's somebody
posting on Facebook or LinkedIn or whatever, what are some
initial things that people can do to sort of verify
what's going on.
Speaker 4 (45:08):
Always check with people that you know, like loved ones,
if you're an elderly person looking for work, or just
in general you get a message, reach out to your nieces, nephews,
younger people, or people within your orbit and ask questions
like hey, what do you think of this? Because the
process needs to be slowed down. The minute you're going rapidly,
that's when you're in trouble. So always ask people the
(45:29):
external and outside of you, what's going on? What do
you think of this? And usually if they're like in
the know, they'll be like, hey, I think you should
avoid that second, you know, reach out to me. I
have a website, it's theprofiler dot org. I have a
ton of information there in my cases and different resources
to help you stay safe and take take more control
(45:49):
and more power over your job search if that's what
you're doing as an older professional, and more control over
your information. You know, visit you know different websites that
are repeople that post about scam content like yours and others.
Because it's just the time of mass bombardment, mass scamming.
I call it the age of chaos. And in that time,
(46:10):
what you have to do is first, slow down, reach
out to the people that you're trusted and reach out
to me, reach out to Joyce.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
Those those are our first those are our first two tips.
Speaker 4 (46:19):
Yeah, yeah, first to reach out to Joys and myself.
Reach out to people in your network, ask questions and
step outside of you. But the biggest and I say
the biggest takeaway is admit that you don't know everything,
because you know, when you're an older person, you know
like you have wisdom and things like that, but there's
still blind spots. So admit that you might be in
(46:41):
the road or down the road of being taken advantage
of and if you were scammed, and share your story
because it's no knock against you for being scammed. There's
this stigma that happens when people are scammed that you're
thought to be, you know, not smart, but anybody can
scam it anytime. Yeah, and so share your stories. The
more people know, the more people know how to avoid things,
(47:02):
and that will help bolster this community.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
And one of the things is what do you think
if they so like, say they found a job on LinkedIn,
whoever it is. It could be a twenty year old,
it could be an eighty year old. They found a
job on LinkedIn, And if they typed into their internet
browser whatever the job is, and said what scam or
(47:27):
fraud after it, there's probably a good chance something would
come up where someone else has found it to be
a fraud or scam and they've reported it. And I mean,
what are your thoughts on that? Do you do you
think that's another viable resource for someone to do, just
(47:47):
to kind of see what information's out there.
Speaker 4 (47:51):
Correct. Yeah, there are different sites like Reddit and glassdoor.
If you just type in the company name and then scam,
typically what you'll find are a bunch of first hand
accounts from other people who have had experiences with this
company or also show you whether or not there are
different name iterations of this business quote unquote, because what
cameras typically do is they change the business thing multiple times,
(48:13):
but keep running the same scam because it works. So yeah,
it'll definitely give you a leg up and more information.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Okay, yeah, because they'll change the name just a little bit.
Speaker 4 (48:23):
Yeah, they always has solutions or private limited or global
enterprise solutions. Like it's grandiose titles, but there's nothing behind it.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
They'll keep the If there's a like a one or
two words in the name of a company that people
that's popular with people to know the company, they'll keep those,
but they'll change the other words to so people will
see those two and go okay, yeah, that must be
that company, correct, Yeah, yeah, okay, Well awesome, Thank you
(48:55):
Jase so much for all this information. I think it helps,
like I said, not only the newly the new people
you know, uh eighteen twenty twenty two years old getting
into the workforce, but it's going to help everybody all
the way up and through into the retirement ages that
are looking for work as well. So really appreciate your
(49:17):
uh your information. Your website is profiler dot org. Is
that correct? Oh, you froze a little bit.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
I think it's profiler dot.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
Filer dot org.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
It's what filer dot org. Okay, profiler dot org. Okay,
very good, profiler dot org. Oh, the profiler dot org. Sorry,
the profiler dot org. All right, I need to wrap
it up here or one's going to be uh messaging
me in the chat. So thanks again, Jay. Love to
have you back sometime in the future for another chat.
(49:56):
But thank you for your information.
Speaker 4 (49:58):
All right, I love to be back and thank you.
Thank for having me.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Yep, you're welcome. All right, everyone, that's it. We're out
of time. Don't forget to go to the website Roseadvocacy dot.
Speaker 3 (50:07):
Org and.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Sign up for our newsletters and subscribe to the our
YouTube channel and this radio show so you don't miss
an episode.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
Thank you until next week.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Well that's all the knowledge for this episode. Tune in
every Tuesday at eight am Pacific time on KFOURHG Radio
at KFOURHD dot com as Joyce explores a variety of knowledge.
So you have the power to make scam protection your
healthy habit, and until then, feel free to reach out
to Joyce and let's talk about scams.
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek
(00:22):
the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any
suggested ideas. The information contained in this podcast is intended
for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for
individual professional legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled
from vetted sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to
(00:44):
safeguard the elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall
victim to a scam. Let's talk about scams. It's the
must listen show for anyone who wants to protect themselves
and their loved ones from scams. Every Tuesday am Pacific
time on K four HD Radio, Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose,
(01:05):
and her guests will provide valuable insights and practical tips
on how to recognize and protect yourself from scams. And
now here is your host, Joyce Petrowski.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Hi, everyone, welcome back to Let's Talk About Scams Radio show.
I'm Joyce Petrowski, the founder and board president of Rose
Resources Outreach to Safeguard the elderly. I'm sure you enjoyed
Brian the last couple weeks. I know he talked about
that great new law we have here in Arizona with
the cryptocurrency ATMs. It's going to be very interesting over
(01:42):
the next six to twelve months to see how many
of those are taken down that the owner operators decide, Hey,
I'm not going to have these in my store. My
hope is that all of them will go away. But
today we are going to talk about job scams, meeting
senior scams. But before we get into that, don't forget
(02:06):
to go to our website, Roseadvocacy dot org and you
can scroll down to the bottom of the homepage and
sign up for our newsletters.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
We do one via email and one in the mail,
and you.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Can all our social media links are there, and you're
going to want to click subscribe to our YouTube channel
so you don't miss an episode of Let's Talk About
Scams Show. So our guest today, Jay Jones, is a
copywriter and globally recognized cybercrime investigator and fraud prevention specialist,
best known as the Profiler. After dedicating years to building
(02:41):
a career in advertising and achieving his dream role at
an ad agency, Jay's trajectory changed dramatically when he was
laid off unexpectedly just before the birth of his daughter
in December of twenty twenty three. Jay is a pioneer
in platform accountability. Is an internationally known expert on LinkedIn
(03:03):
fraud and scam detection, with his work and advocacy featured
in NBC News and Yahoo News.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
His impact is measured by results.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
To date, Jay has personally gotten thirty two thousand, six
hundred and forty fake jobs and over seven thousand fraudulent
profiles removed from LinkedIn, protecting thousands of real professionals and
businesses across the globe.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
So let's welcome Jay.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Hey Joyce, thank you for the great intro. Thank you
for having me. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Thank you for joining.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I think this is going to be a very interesting
show with some interesting topics.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
So why don't you just tell us a little bit
more about what you do?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Sure? So, my work through the Profiler Protection Service is
my business where I help real professionals, real companies, and
real entrepreneurs and solorepreneurs be protected online from job scams
or impersonate or any type of intellectual theft because it's
a rampant problem in this day and age. AI makes
it a lot easier for bad actors to do this,
(04:08):
And so for me, what I'm doing is intervening and
stopping this from being as pervasive as it is, so
more people are educated and protected.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
So, I mean, job scams are running rampant, just like
all kinds of scams, right, And there's a lot of
there's a lot of overlap between job scams and senior scams.
There are a lot of seniors that are deciding to
go back into the workforce for a variety of different reasons.
And you know they are most likely going to look
(04:40):
online to try to find jobs.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Yeah, because given their age, typically they might have some
physical ailments or other limitations, and they're trying to find
things that are primarily remote, you know, gone in the
days where you know, the retirement age is sixty five.
It just keeps moving further and further out it does.
And so you know, as they keep living, which we
want them to do, you know they unfortunately have to
go back to work and what they typically target or
(05:06):
remote jobs or things that can keep them home bound
so they can generate revenue and not compromise they'll have
their health further. But that's where the scams come in
with the big jobs. Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Okay, And in your in the bio that I read,
how long well, it says you started it was sometime
either December of twenty twenty three or after that you
started this.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Yeah. I was laid off on the summer fourth, twenty
twenty three, and then I started to look for work.
Immediately that same day, I turned on the green banner
on LinkedIn and I got a lot of attention. And
prior to that, i'd heard rumblings about how bad the
job market was, but I thought that that was just
maybe just people just spreading rumors and fear based messaging.
But then I started to see that all of these
(05:50):
messages that I got were from recruiters quote unquote, but
they weren't affiliated with any companies. They were stealing pictures
of attractive women, yeah, and trying to get your information
as fast as possible in order to get you into
these fake job opportunities. So my first case. It happened
in January of twenty twenty four, because I decided that,
you know, even though they couldn't get me, I didn't
want them to get anybody else to take advantage of them.
(06:13):
And I felt a responsibility to help people because if
I didn't say something, then there would be this big
void and they would persist these rampant scams.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Right, well, that's great that you said something, right, and
you continue to say something. I mean, seven thousand fraudulent profiles.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Wow, yeah. Three thousand of those alone were frank resume
riders for one fake company that I got taken off
LinkedIn that was called a ten Star Resume Limited and
they had been on LinkedIn for years prior to me.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Wow. Wow, So do you.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Do you have a good working relationship? Then with LinkedIn
that they're gonna they're gonna want to take a take
a second look at ones that you bring to their attention.
I'm guessing or you've had to really fight too and nail.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Tooth and nail. And then in the cases that I
lay out, because I make a visual case file to
show irrefutable proof that these profiles are fake, the content
that they have on their profile was stolen, and it's
preceded by a real person who posted this content on
their profile years ago, if not many years ago. Because
these bad actors, they don't know how to communicate well.
(07:23):
They rely on scripting through AI and SA contacts from
established professionals and using that they can pretend to be
authentic and trick people who have no idea the person
they're talking to is a SCAMMERA. So it's been it's
been a tooth and nail fight.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, so you said, you know, like with the grammar.
That's one of the things that you know, we teach
in our presentations is AI and we talk about the
chat GBT and the generative text AI out there and
about how you know, you used to be able, whether
it was a text message and email. You know, something
(07:59):
you got in the mail you saw this bad grammar
and you were like, okay, this doesn't make sense right,
And now everything is polished because they're just putting prompts
into AI and you know, it's it's amazing. I see
a lot of the older adults just kind of their
(08:19):
eyes go wide. It's like they can put prompts into
you know, like write me an email that I want
to send to the seniors or older adults, whatever term
they use in the Midwest or in the East, or
in the western part of the United States, you know
whatever geographically, And I want to entice them to donate
(08:42):
to a charity. I want to pull out their heartstrings,
and AI within seconds will generate an exact email that.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
They can use.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
And so I think AI is while it came out
for good, you know, obviously technology scammers have access to it.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yeah, And that's the unique advantage I have being a copywriter,
because you know, I write, and I know how the
structure sentences, paragraphs, phrases and things like that. And so
when I see certain things, I can tell when it's
AI generated, because AI typically use a lot a lot
of gerns, so unintentional add ons to the end of
a sentence to try to make it more powerful or
more meaningful. They'll use a lot of M dashes, They'll
(09:24):
use a lot of emojis, and a lot of vague
content what I call word salad. So it's a big
block of text. But when you actually look at it
from an objective perspective, you see that they aren't really
saying anything. They're talking about a subject but they're not
a subject matter expert, which is a clear difference. Yeah,
(09:44):
they play on the heart strings. Yeah yeah, And then
you know they play on the heart strings of the
elderly because you know, they want to know that they're
talking to someone real, that someone is investing time and
speaking with them, Because if you're really trying to be
a quick hitter, then that can fall flat. But if
you hit them with a large body of text that
is tailored to their profile or maybe their history, because
(10:06):
there's so much about us.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Online, their life, their hobbies. Yeah, but you know their
interests think yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Yeah, and it leads them to thinking that this is
a real person they're talking to, but that that's the trouble.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
So that story about almost half of those fraudulent profiles
you had taken down came from just one one profile
had like had made up like thirty different profiles or
thirty different not thirty three thousand different was it jobs
(10:42):
or No?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Ten Star Resume Limited was a quote unquote company that
offered resume writing services to anybody who was in the
job market. But the problem was they was, yeah they
was still information from real resume writers profiles. They would
fake certificates. They were still pictures of attractive women in
the realty space or foreign models, Pakistani actresses, you know,
the whole.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Through that they made up three thousand different profiles correct, yes,
and it was one company correct yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
And you know I and I eventually tracked it down,
you know, because I was running into the issue of
finding the head of the snake, so to speak, because
I knew all the fake profiles, I knew where they were,
how they were messaging people, and I would go after
them to inform people about how this scam particularly works.
But in order to really take it down, you have
to show the faces behind it. Yeah, And so ultimately
(11:34):
I had to do research and find some paperwork that
showed who the owners were of this quote unquote business
in the guy's name was in the seer jot and
you know, went on a campaign to make sure that
his business was taken down. And it was good.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Good, that's great. So have you have you talked to.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Any victims of these types of job scams where they
actually sent money for whatever reason, thinking that they're going
to get this job that they had to pay, you know, fees,
they had to pay for equipment, whatever, have you talked
to any of the victims countless ones.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Either people see my cases, they know the work that
I do, and they'll reach out to me and share
their experiences with me. Two of the most notable cases
that I had. It was some months back, but it
was the home equipment fee scam. One woman she was
taking a job with a sheen, so she thought as
a customer service representative. She had a job, left that
job to take this job, but it was a fake one,
(12:36):
and she got a check for about two thousand dollars.
And you know how the home desktop scam works or
home equipment scam. I'm sure your audience knows. But a
quick rundown is these bad actors will send you a check,
say you have to use their approved vendor to buy
this equipment, but the vendor is them, and they logged
your payment details through this portal or their own website.
And then they'll go as far as give you an
(12:57):
official start date. So you're excited, you think job search
is over. Then when your start day comes, you hear nothing.
You start to get confused and concerned, and then the
next call you get is from your bank saying the
check bounce and the second case was a woman who
took a job with Epsilon who so she thought, and
it was another instance of the desktop equipment check scam
(13:18):
where she was conned out of two thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
So she was conned out of two thousand did they
send her a check and she deposited and started writing
checks against it, and then that money was no longer
there now.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
In both instances, the checks were around twenty or twenty
five hundred dollars. And how they say this scam works
is you get the check, you deposit it, you buy
the equipment, and then the difference will balance out once
you pay.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
So let's say the correct but then a couple days
later you find out that that check was not good
and so now you're out a two thousand dollars because
you've already went and bought this equipment.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
So that's whatever other charges they make on your car too.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yeah yeah, wow. Have you have you heard that.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
There have been any of these people that have had
their accounts taken over? I'm sure the credit cards were compromised,
but where their actual accounts, financial accounts were taken over?
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Financial accounts. I've seen that happen before, but more prominently.
I see hijack profiles on LinkedIn and also Facebook slash meta,
where people will hack the credentials and then take over
the profile and then start making messages to the contacts
pretending to be that person to com them. One instance
was a woman she's a college student, that she had
(14:42):
her Facebook account hacked and they were sending messages claiming
to be selling Taylor Swift tickets, playing on a popular
artist to get people to listen and stuff. And one
woman I helped get access back to her meta account
that was banned. She was hacked and they were trying
to calm her connections. And she's a business owner. She
owns a linery and a Oh Wow cal form I believe,
(15:03):
I forget the state she's in. But she reached out
to me because she heard about my work, and I
reached out to some people that met work behind the
scenes to get her account back so she could continue
to do business. But those are the kind of things
that happen, and scammers they know that typically because of
my work, the fake profiles don't perform as well anymore,
so they're leaning more into taking over real accounts that
(15:25):
are dormant and have the verification mark and also pay
for premium, And so that's the way they're trying to
advance their.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Scamming, so that they pay for premium. Like with LinkedIn, Right,
you can pay for premium, and it tells you because
I get those notifications, you know, every now and then
this says, hey, you know twenty people checked out your profile.
Reactivate your premium and you can see who it was.
And I haven't done it, but you know, it's pretty
pricey to reactivate it. But what's the Why would a
(15:57):
scammer be looking for someone that's got the premium? Is
it because they have more Their account is able to
do more things, see more things.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Correct, You have more, Yeah, you have extended reach. You
have more messages that you're able to send because with
a base account, I think you can only send about
thirty or forty messages per week.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
But with a premium, you can have like two hundred
or more, right, Yeah, like a tree or something like that.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
And you have more yeah, correct, and you can send
more connection requests as well. But it also comes with
the authority that people view when they see premium, because
if you're paying to have this extended reach, you must
be a real professional, because who would pay for something
and use it through fraudulent means? Right, And that's how
scammeras operate because if you can one person and they
(16:49):
have marginal credit, what I say, you can get a
credit card for three hundred dollars or more if you
steal their identity, so that fee is just a negligible cost.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Right. It's somebody that has the higher credit scores, then
you're more apt to get a higher credit limit, even
you know, with impersonating them.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And that's interesting because.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
TransUnion just had a breach and you know, there was
a lot of personal information stolen with that, and I
would imagine credit scores are part of it, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Correct, And they target people with certain job titles like
executive or they'll pretend to have certain job titles like
VP and whatnot. And speaking of TransUnion, a common scam
that I've seen over the past year is they'll have
fake jobs posted on LinkedIn that lead to a Google site,
and the Google site form will have this fake application,
(17:48):
but part of the application process is paying twenty nine
to ninety nine for a background check through TransUnion. Okay,
but it's a way to get your credit card information
because a background check only happens after you've gotten offer officially. Well,
then you have the background check, and you never are
supposed to.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Pay for that, right, And that all makes sense. And
but whether someone is in a dire need for a job,
right like financially they're they're running out of funds. They
need to have a job to be able to live
and get their basic needs. Their emotions then are like,
(18:25):
oh my god, this is the perfect job, and they
must really like me. They want me to do a
background check. Sure, I'll pay thirty you know, twenty nine
ninety nine. And their emotions take over, and so.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
They say that in the language I'm sorry, no I was.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Gonna say, And so they're not thinking rationally, right, they
get them into an emotional state, you know, whatever it
is another you know, it could be like, this is
the perfect job, but you need to act now. We've
got ten people behind you waiting in line, and if
you don't act in the next twenty four hours.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
So they have a lot of the kind of same.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Scam techniques that you see in a wide variety of scams.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Yeah, and they say that on the Google site forms
that I've seen, they say, in order to be considered
as a candidate or an applicant, you have to do
this payment portion of it, and that's a way to
force the issue with you. But if you take a
step back, because the way to counter this is to
slow things down. I tell people to take executive power
over their job search because just because you're out of work,
(19:25):
it doesn't mean you've lost your value. You only lost
your job. And when you put in this position of
what I call layoff PTSD, because it's traumatic, you're thinking
about all the people you're responsible for and how you're
going to provide for them, and you see how bad
the job market is, then you're like jumping at everything
that seems real. But if you step back and you
ask yourself, well, why is this position so fast tracked?
(19:47):
When I see countless, if not millions of other people
saying it's taking them twelve months or longer to find
a job, what is it? Where is this oasis? And
why they find me? And that's how you can step
outside of yourself and see that it's it's not real.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Right, And you know that's the we created a couple
of years ago it's called an anatomy of a scam
because we found when we were doing these presentations that
we would talk about like the top five scams that
are targeting the seniors. But the minute you leave, right
there's three new scams out there. You wake up the
(20:23):
next day and you know they've taken like the pig butchering,
they've taken some investment scams and some of the techniques
from the romance scam and put you know, put them
together and came up with this new scam. So we
created this Anatomy of a scam, which really breaks scams
down into three parts. And the first one is they
(20:43):
have to contact you right wide variety and your your
cell phones are a big way that they're going to
contact you. And so, you know, we tell people you
got to treat those like a mobile computer, because it
is a computer. If you know it's attached the internet.
You know, you can message, you can get your emails,
(21:04):
you can go into encrypted apps like WhatsApp, you can
do your social media profiles in there. You can message
through those social media profiles. You know, getting the phone
calls a whole bunch of you know, different ways to
contact you. So you have to treat it like a
mobile computer and lock it down like you would your
iPad or your laptop or your desktop. And the second
(21:29):
part is that creating that compelling reason to act. And
this is where we say, if you can cut it
off at the contact, then you've you're not moving into
that second phase, which is the emotional phase, which you
know with one of the tips, we say, be aware
of your emotions. And it's like, you know, I get
(21:51):
it if you're If they got you in that emotional state,
it's hard for you to then think rationally and go, wait,
I need to be aware of my emotions, right, which
is why you always need to have somebody to talk
to before you act on anything, because sometimes just saying
the situation out loud, your mind flips over and you're like, Okay,
(22:11):
that doesn't make sense, right.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
That's what I tell people too, I say read the
email out loud because it's a psychological thing because when
you're reading something but it's in your mind, you're already
accepting the information, but where you're verbally saying it, it's
external and so you haven't accepted it.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Right, which is like talking to your trusted person right
that they can they're going to realize it's a scam
because you know they're not emotional about it. They're not
emotionally vested in it like you are. And they're going
to start asking you questions and you're going to answer
the questions, and then through that back and forth, psychologically
(22:49):
your mind flips and you're like, Okay, now I get
it right.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
Yeah, And then another common tactic regarding the anatomy of
a scam is the uneu exchange of information. And so
you look and you get this email because I get
emails all the time about exciting writing opportunities, but I
know the verbiage, I know how they present it, so
I know it's fake even from the title of the email.
But the common hallmark is you're giving all this information,
(23:16):
you're divulging so much, and you know next to nothing
about this person. They'll go as far as use somebody
else's picture, use detailed signatures, and even link to real
LinkedIn profiles. But really, what do you know about this
person other than the fact that they contacted you about
an email, or they contacted you about prescription, or they
contacted you about vulnerability that leads to one of your
(23:39):
accounts being compromised and they can help you get it back.
It's like, who is this person, where are they actually working, like,
don't take anything and face valuable right.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
And it's unfortunate, right, especially with the older adult population
telling them that you can't trust anything anymore. That's heart wrenching.
I'm in that population. So we grew up trusting people.
We would meet somebody and we trusted them. In ninety
(24:09):
nine point nine percent of the time, you were good
to go because the world was just so much different
in the seventies and eighties.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
Yeah, the door unlocked a night, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, you left your right your car unlocked in the
driveway your house, you know, Oh I forgot to lock
the door. Oh who It's fine, you know, nobody's going
to break in. And ninety nine point nine percent of
the time that was that was accurate. And then telling
this population that you you can't trust anybody anymore until
they've earned your trust, you verified what's going on, right,
(24:44):
and it's just it's it's devastating that they have to
change their whole way of life.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
This is why I tell people to stay vigilant, because
there's a difference between the vigilance and paranoia. Paranoia is
I can't trust anybody, what do I do? And vigilance
is I shouldn't trust anybody. Here's what I do. And
so it's providing you actionable information and giving you the
power that you think you lost, because that's what happens
is when you get older, you think like you're more
(25:13):
susceptible to things. People take advantage of the elderly because
they think they're easier targets. And if you have mental
issues like to mention whatnot, then that.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
That just compromise you. Yeah, it does. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
And so like you said, you know, we don't stop
it just saying you can't trust anybody anymore. You need
to verify what's going on, and then they can earn
your trust, but you have to verify that they are legitimate.
They are who they say they are, the situation is accurate,
You've verified it through legitimate channels. So I was going
(25:48):
to ask you with this artificial intelligence, is there like
an app or something And I just thought of this
out of the blue that but somebody could like put
a upload a picture to it and it would come
back and say, no, this is the actual picture, or
this has been this has been altered through artificial intelligence,
(26:14):
or the same with like a voice recording, or you know,
throwing an email into it is there. I mean, I
don't even know if that can be done.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Well, there's currently reversed image searching, so that's a way
that I find a lot of these fake profiles that
steal people's pictures because these scameras, they'll go as far
as using face swop technology, which I've revealed in my
different cases. They'll use age filters, so they'll make a
picture older or they'll make it younger to throw off
any reverse image detection. But I find those and typically
(26:47):
what you do is you open the picture in a
new tab, right click it, and then click Google Visual
Search or Google image search, and it'll give you whatever
results or wherever else this picture appeared. So like let's
say the profile on LinkedIn if you're an older person
looking for a job, and the person's name is Jane Thompson.
But then because they use generic American sounding names to
(27:08):
try to get trust that way, but if you google
that image and then you see Jane Thompson, Kate Owens
and other names like.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Thirty or forty pictures all the same pictures, correct, you.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Have evidence there of a fake profile that's been used
many times. And then typically it leads you to a
stock photo, because if it's used that many times, it's
typically a stock photo or a picture of some professional
from years ago, because they'll go back in time and
take a picture from years ago of somebody so they
can avoid the current person finding out.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Okay, does that Google image search? Does it actually tell
you which is the actual legitimate picture that you know?
You might have all of these same pictures, but it
actually this legitimate picture belongs to this person.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
It can if it's not heavily used, like I give
it like a seventy five to eighty percent accuracy rate,
because there are different other methods that I use to
find different pictures, because it's not just that Google imasearch,
because there are a lot of times where I know
a picture is fake, but Google im research will give
you no results. But I always say, like, if you
have to even go through that route, I would just
(28:23):
like just discontinue engaging altogether, because in a job search,
you may miss real opportunities by being vigilant. But it's
better to err on the side of caution and be like, no,
it's okay, I'll just go along with it and then
have your savings.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Drained well exactly right. That's you don't want to. And
I've actually talked to seniors. This one lady in particular,
a few years back, she had received an email, you know,
with the tech support refund scam, and it came they
(28:58):
were impersonating one of the larger companies, and she had
actually had antivirus software with that company legitimately, but she
thought she had canceled it, and so she immediately thought
it was real and called the phone number in the email,
and and you know, they said, well, we you know,
we already took the money, so let's put it back
(29:20):
in your account. And you know, too many zeros and
they're going to get in trouble, they're going to get fired.
And so you know, she went and got the money
and and they're I think did it online maybe I'm
not sure how it was, and gave it back to them.
But then they were able to access her home equity
line of credit.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
And they they they.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Maxed it out and and so she lost even more money.
But yet she's having to pay this back every month
on some money she never got.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
So yeah, it yes, because they're playing on the fear
of losing your information security by saying that you were
charged charge that was not authorized, and then they played
they double the legitimacy by using a company you're actually
affiliated with or were affiliated with, and from there they
get you on the phone, they say they need to
remote into your computer. They will walk you through this
(30:18):
mirrored or entirely fake website and then they'll say if
you just download this product, and typically it's any desk
that they use, and you give them access to remote in,
and then they'll use like a screen blocker, but you
can't see it, so they'll have you type in this information,
but you don't know that they actually typed into extra zero.
And because I think you did it, you feel bad.
(30:40):
So that's the negative feeling. And they're like, no, I'm
going to get fired. And you know, you know, they
do all that to play on your art strings. And
you go to your bank and take out some money,
send it through a Western Union or wise.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Some quick way, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
And then by the time you realize what happened, it's
too late.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
It's too late, right, the money because the wiring the
Western Union, it's instant, right, and you know there's no
I was going to say, there's some you know in
Western unions they have the signs, and their tellers might
suspect that they're being scammed and they'll ask questions. And
same thing with banks, right, the banks are getting really
(31:20):
good at teaching their employees on how to recognize scams
and questions to ask. But this lady in particular that
I talked to, she said, the bank teller, she knew
I was being scammed and asked me questions.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
She goes, but I flat out lied.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Because the scammer kept her in that emotional state and
told her that the teller was going to be asking
these questions suspecting it's a scam. Just tell her this,
and tell the teller this, and and you know, then
you'll be able to just we'll be able to finish
the transaction.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
So it's yeah, it's it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
And so our whole thing is to get them to
recognize at the contact right that they need to, like
you said, pause and stop and research and investigate and
verify what's going on before they act on anything, because
once you flip over into that emotional state, it becomes
so much harder to think rationally and determine it's a scam.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Correct, Yeah, it's financial abuse is just like domestic abuse
where somebody gets into your life and they slowly isolate you.
And that's what the scammers do. They isolate you from
your real help. And so in that scenario, they're saying like, oh,
the teller is incompetent. They're sowing seeds of distrust and
the actual people you should trust. So if they're asking
these questions, they painted like, oh, they're just being overly cautious.
(32:49):
I'm legitimate. How else would I know you had? You
know this anti virus company? How else would I know
this if I wasn't legitimate? And so they put you
mentally on their side, and it's disgusting.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yeah, it is. It's that that's a good word for it.
It's it's disgusting. So you mentioned the Google image search
and stuff like that. Is there are there any other
like tech savvy detection skills that you I don't know
that you I know you said you were on NBC
(33:23):
News and Yahoo News and uh so any other like
tech savvy detection skills that you have that you use
to help people, or maybe that you talk about when
you get the information out about what you do.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Sure, anytime I discover someone who has been impersonated or
someone who has had their likeness or image taken. I'll
reach out to that person and say, hey, this profile
is impersonating you. Here's a link to it, here screenshots
of it. If I see emails that are being used
but they aren't affiliated with the real person at all,
else sudden to them. I've gotten emails taken down through
takedown requests. I've gotten a couple of websites taken down
(34:05):
through takedown requests. There was a Kleinily scam involving artists
and talent for some time. It's still ongoing, but I'm
still working on that one where scammer pretends to be
a real artist and talent celebrity, but they're celebrity. Oh okay, No,
artists and talent is a recruitment firm. Oh, basically they're
(34:25):
pretending to Yeah, they're pretending to be a recruiter that
works for that firm and emailing people about job opportunities
and major companies to make it sound attractive, but really
they're impersonating her entirely to scam people out of their information.
So I'll share that with the people. I'll let them
know how to report different things. Where to find a
link to the fake profile and then I'll also file
(34:47):
a case with LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Okay, So I know there's a lot of fake profiles
on Facebook and Meta. We've actually reported, you know, when
we see them and we know they're fake, we report them,
but we inevitably get the found nothing back.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
We found nothing.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Wrong, it doesn't violate our community standards, and so we're
not going to take it down. And it's like it seems,
but I think it's their technology that's automatically going through
and looking at the profile and they haven't broken any
community standards because the technology that they're using only goes
so far. So a good example is in at the
(35:30):
end of August, we had our company, Rose's Facebook page
went down and my personal page went down, and I'm like,
what's going on. I haven't done anything on my personal page.
The majority of what I do is share posts from Rose.
But because we're in the scam prevention business, you know,
(35:51):
Rose puts out you know, probably four to five times
a week, you know, we post and it's information about
you know, helpful tips or about new data breach and
hacks or new scam alerts and stuff like that, and
so the technology is picking up on specific words that
they see, and then they're automatically assuming that we're violating
(36:14):
community standards because they see these words in there.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
Yeah, yeah, it's insane.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
And then it's like when you appeal it, it goes
to an actual person and then I get the response back, well,
our technology made a mistake, And it's like, do you
think maybe you should before you take someone's profile down,
you should have a real person look at what the
technology came up with and actually look at the profile.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
Well, this is the problem with the AI and all
the layoffs, is like you're wholly handing over the business
to AI, but yet you openly admit that it's making
all of these obvious mistakes that it supposedly should correct
because if you trust them in enough to let go
of real humans, then why is it punishing real humans?
And I said this in relation to LinkedIn, I'd say
(37:03):
the reporting process it focuses on content but not intent.
And so what I mean is like a knife can
cut a cake or it can cut a person, it's
about the intent. And so these reporting metrics of this AI,
what it does is it looks at the content of
in this example, a job description. Now, if you look
at job description as it's written. Of course, there's no violation.
(37:26):
They're not using any foul language, they're not insulting, doing
anything like that. But the intent of this job description
is to lead you to, like I said before, that
payment portal which stills credit card information, the job was
posted by a fake profile, which is identity theft right there.
The business doesn't exist, or it was a website that
was quickly thrown together, so the business is not real.
(37:49):
All of those intentional actions are meant to harm you.
But if you're just looking at content, of course you're
not going to find something wrong.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Well the end, that's the thing is like AI is
and I'm not I don't know a lot about AI,
and I'm not a app developer, and you know, in
the technology end of it. But it seems to me
that AI is only as good as what people are prompting.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
In the room.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, and and and what what people are putting into it.
So where you can think in certain instances that AI
can detect the outcome, the true outcome without human intervention.
I think somebody has missed the mark on that because
you're you're you're missing you're you're missing the human component
(38:42):
to it, like you said, with a knife, right, it
can cut a person, and it can cut the cake.
And if you're looking at the content, nothing's wrong. But
if it's cutting a person, obviously that's wrong, right, correctly,
and so and.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
It's a shame because you know, you talk about their
technology and having the ability to change it, but they
have sixteen billion reasons not to. I mean, we saw
the report that just came out about the scam ads
and they made sixteen billion from that. So you know,
you have to look at where the money is going.
And so if the money is going here, and where
(39:18):
it's going is to the denigration and the hurt of
real people, well then you have a balancing You have
a decision to make at that point. It's either, like
I say, all money is in good money, So are
you going to take this money and allow the people
to fall by the wayside, or are you going to
forego that and protect the people.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, And you know it's interesting because when I was
trying to work through it took me probably a month
or six weeks to get my personal account back up.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
Exactly, and as money lost, reputation damage like well.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Right, and you know I was very honest with our
supporters and stuff. I'd put it in the newsletters and say,
you know, the Facebook got taken down. I don't know why.
We're trying to figure it out. We're trying to get
it back up. We haven't done anything wrong. And it
was they took three of the pictures down because they
said it violated their cybersecurity community standards. And when I
(40:11):
appealed it, they, of course, like I said, came back
and said, well, we've determined our technology made a mistake, right,
and then yeah, and it's like and then as soon
as it came back up, like a week later, it
was like they're taking a few more pictures down. It's like,
how do I get in touch with somebody over there
(40:31):
and say to them people, this is what we do.
And if you had somebody look up what we do.
Look at our website. It's a valid website. We own it, right,
it's we own this you know Facebook and LinkedIn account,
and it's legitimate, right, it's scam prevention. So yes, we're
(40:51):
going to have the word scams, We're going to have
the word breach hacked, We're going to have all that
stuff in our post. But I can't get a hold
of any anybody over there and you know, get them
to you know, I don't know, somehow flag our account
to say, listen, if your technology is going to take
this account down, you need to have a human intervene
(41:13):
and look at it.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
Like like I said earlier, it's insane. And the reason
I said evidence is because the AI or the automated
detection systems as it's referred to as, anytime a report
is made, they're going to err on this could be real,
let's take it down. But then when you appeal it, oh,
it could be it's real now, so we'll put it back.
So that means there's no review happening, because if a
(41:37):
real human looked at it, there would be no way
that this would just be automatically taken down. Then the
bad side about that reporting thing is when you get
reported now, all of a sudden, you're on the radar
for wrong reasons, and then other things come down by
just because you were flagged. And it's a shame because
(41:57):
it hurts real people, but the scammers can continue to
operate unchecked. And it's not much different on LinkedIn, Like
there are certain words that get flagged, like if you
call a scammer a scammer. The bubble will come up
that says, when you try to post the comment, are
you sure you want to post this comment because it's
been flagged previously by members of the community. If you
say the word idiot, if you if you use a
(42:20):
phrase pig butchering like that gets flagged because it's thought
to be like harmful. But at the same time, people
can openly put the phrase LinkedIn accounts for sale, LinkedIn
account leasing by LinkedIn accounts.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
And it's fine.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
And the list goes on and on, and these are
clear violations. You're not supposed to sell your account, you're
not supposed to lease it, And that stuff just goes
on unchecked.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Well, because each one of those words by themselves are
not harmful, but a few of the other words by
themselves can be looked at as harmful, but they're not
looking at the whole context of it, right, you know.
And it's interesting you say, you know, err on the
side of caution, take the take the profile down until
(43:05):
you can review it, and then if it's valid, put
it back up on the You would think the same
thing would work for the ads side of it, right,
even though they're paying money and buying ads. If it look,
if the technology finds this stuff, take it down and
err on the side of caution, review it, and then
bring it back up. But like you said, there, it's
(43:28):
where you said, sixteen million or billion dollars just came
out and they're making me yeah.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
Yeah, yeah, so it's hard to err on the side
of caution when the money is so.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Good, right, And I often say the two things that
get people into trouble or are money and power.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
They aren't bad, but it's when you all.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Know they're not bad, but they make some people think
it's okay to do things they normally wouldn't do because
of power.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
And then the money.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Right, I have this power, I'm not going to get
in trouble and I'm going to make all this money.
So yeah, yeah, I'm not saying I'm not saying the
social media profiles are doing that.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
I'm just saying in general.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
Yeah, for the people that misuse power, I misused money,
it's because before they had both, they were already that
kind of person and so now that they have the
ability to act.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
And it's just enhances it.
Speaker 4 (44:27):
Yeah, it makes them be who they were already.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah, they're moral compass points south. What I like to say,
but so we've only got about five minutes left, and
I well, actually you and I only have excuse me,
a couple of minutes left. But what are some things
that people can do if they're out there looking for
(44:52):
a job and they're you know, looking, whether it's somebody
posting on Facebook or LinkedIn or whatever, what are some
initial things that people can do to sort of verify
what's going on.
Speaker 4 (45:08):
Always check with people that you know, like loved ones,
if you're an elderly person looking for work, or just
in general you get a message, reach out to your nieces, nephews,
younger people, or people within your orbit and ask questions
like hey, what do you think of this? Because the
process needs to be slowed down. The minute you're going rapidly,
that's when you're in trouble. So always ask people the
(45:29):
external and outside of you, what's going on? What do
you think of this? And usually if they're like in
the know, they'll be like, hey, I think you should
avoid that second, you know, reach out to me. I
have a website, it's theprofiler dot org. I have a
ton of information there in my cases and different resources
to help you stay safe and take take more control
(45:49):
and more power over your job search if that's what
you're doing as an older professional, and more control over
your information. You know, visit you know different websites that
are repeople that post about scam content like yours and others.
Because it's just the time of mass bombardment, mass scamming.
I call it the age of chaos. And in that time,
(46:10):
what you have to do is first, slow down, reach
out to the people that you're trusted and reach out
to me, reach out to Joyce.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
Those those are our first those are our first two tips.
Speaker 4 (46:19):
Yeah, yeah, first to reach out to Joys and myself.
Reach out to people in your network, ask questions and
step outside of you. But the biggest and I say
the biggest takeaway is admit that you don't know everything,
because you know, when you're an older person, you know
like you have wisdom and things like that, but there's
still blind spots. So admit that you might be in
(46:41):
the road or down the road of being taken advantage
of and if you were scammed, and share your story
because it's no knock against you for being scammed. There's
this stigma that happens when people are scammed that you're
thought to be, you know, not smart, but anybody can
scam it anytime. Yeah, and so share your stories. The
more people know, the more people know how to avoid things,
(47:02):
and that will help bolster this community.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
And one of the things is what do you think
if they so like, say they found a job on LinkedIn,
whoever it is. It could be a twenty year old,
it could be an eighty year old. They found a
job on LinkedIn, And if they typed into their internet
browser whatever the job is, and said what scam or
(47:27):
fraud after it, there's probably a good chance something would
come up where someone else has found it to be
a fraud or scam and they've reported it. And I mean,
what are your thoughts on that? Do you do you
think that's another viable resource for someone to do, just
(47:47):
to kind of see what information's out there.
Speaker 4 (47:51):
Correct. Yeah, there are different sites like Reddit and glassdoor.
If you just type in the company name and then scam,
typically what you'll find are a bunch of first hand
accounts from other people who have had experiences with this
company or also show you whether or not there are
different name iterations of this business quote unquote, because what
cameras typically do is they change the business thing multiple times,
(48:13):
but keep running the same scam because it works. So yeah,
it'll definitely give you a leg up and more information.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Okay, yeah, because they'll change the name just a little bit.
Speaker 4 (48:23):
Yeah, they always has solutions or private limited or global
enterprise solutions. Like it's grandiose titles, but there's nothing behind it.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
They'll keep the If there's a like a one or
two words in the name of a company that people
that's popular with people to know the company, they'll keep those,
but they'll change the other words to so people will
see those two and go okay, yeah, that must be
that company, correct, Yeah, yeah, okay, Well awesome, Thank you
(48:55):
Jase so much for all this information. I think it helps,
like I said, not only the newly the new people
you know, uh eighteen twenty twenty two years old getting
into the workforce, but it's going to help everybody all
the way up and through into the retirement ages that
are looking for work as well. So really appreciate your
(49:17):
uh your information. Your website is profiler dot org. Is
that correct? Oh, you froze a little bit.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
I think it's profiler dot.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
Filer dot org.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
It's what filer dot org. Okay, profiler dot org. Okay,
very good, profiler dot org. Oh, the profiler dot org. Sorry,
the profiler dot org. All right, I need to wrap
it up here or one's going to be uh messaging
me in the chat. So thanks again, Jay. Love to
have you back sometime in the future for another chat.
(49:56):
But thank you for your information.
Speaker 4 (49:58):
All right, I love to be back and thank you.
Thank for having me.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Yep, you're welcome. All right, everyone, that's it. We're out
of time. Don't forget to go to the website Roseadvocacy dot.
Speaker 3 (50:07):
Org and.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Sign up for our newsletters and subscribe to the our
YouTube channel and this radio show so you don't miss
an episode.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
Thank you until next week.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Well that's all the knowledge for this episode. Tune in
every Tuesday at eight am Pacific time on KFOURHG Radio
at KFOURHD dot com as Joyce explores a variety of knowledge.
So you have the power to make scam protection your
healthy habit, and until then, feel free to reach out
to Joyce and let's talk about scams.
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