November 4, 2025 • 45 mins
Tune in to learn our guest's check and credit card fraud experience. How the bank intervened, and the time it took her to fix it. She will also discuss the protections she put in place as a result of her experience.
Let’s Talk About Scams is broadcast live Tuesdays at 8AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Let’s Talk About Scams TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Let’s Talk About Scams Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Disclaimer: The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional / legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references; however, R.O.S.E. Resources / Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/let-s-talk-about-scams--6483699/support.
Let’s Talk About Scams is broadcast live Tuesdays at 8AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Let’s Talk About Scams TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Let’s Talk About Scams Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Disclaimer: The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional / legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references; however, R.O.S.E. Resources / Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/let-s-talk-about-scams--6483699/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek
(00:22):
the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any
suggested ideas. The information contained in this podcast is intended
for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for
individual professional legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled
from vetted sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to
(00:44):
safeguard the elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall
victim to a scam. Let's talk about scams. It's the
must listen show for anyone who wants to protect themselves
and their loved ones from scams. Every Tuesday am Pacific
time on K four HD Radio, Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose,
(01:05):
and her guests will provide valuable insights and practical tips
on how to recognize and protect yourself from scams. And
now here is your host, Joyce Petrowski.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Hi, everyone, welcome back to let's talk about scams. I'm
Joyce Petrowski, founder and board president of Rose Resources Outreach
to safeguard the elderly. You can find more information on
our website at Roseadvocacy dot org. If you scroll down
to the bottom of the homepage, you'll find the links
to sign up for our emailed newsletter and or our
(01:41):
mailed newsletter. They come out every month, and our emailed
newsletter every Tuesday at nine to fifteen am, so in
about ten fifteen minutes we send out a Tuesday tip.
It's nice to get this even if you already know
the tip. That's great, But what it does is it's
a reminder to keep scam prevention and your healthy skepticism
(02:04):
top of mind, so the next time you're contacted, you'll
be more apt to think scam and pause and do
the steps you need to do in order to verify everything.
You also find our social media links on the website
and Facebook is back.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Our Facebook account is back up. It's been about.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Oh gosh too a little over two months, but we
finally got it reactivated, so it's back and you'll see
a lot more posts there. So today I have a
guest named Shirley who's going to join us to talk
about her scam experience and why she doesn't write checks anymore.
So let's welcome Shirley.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Hi, Charley, Hi there, how are you?
Speaker 4 (02:52):
I'm good?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Thank you good. So Shirley attended one of our presentations.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Recently and we got to talking and she said, you know,
I'd be willing to share my experience, you know, on
the radio show. So she's here with us today, and
why don't you tell us a little bit about your experience.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
I received a call from my bank to back up
a bit. I checked my accounts on every day, Oh,
my bank accounts and so forth, keep track of everything
that's good. And then I received a call was Bank Americas,
Well Home bank, and they said, have you been writing
(03:33):
a series of big checks? Well, of course then you
And that was a phone call, so I was leary
of it. So I got on the web right away,
and what the lady said was true, and they had
stopped a series of checks from coming, but in the meantime,
three or four of them went through before their ability
(03:54):
or whatever it is, stopped any more checks from coming. Okay,
And so that's how I first learned about it. So,
of course you immediately stopped the account, which of course
was the account with all the automatic reductions. Yes, and
so from then I and so that's how I learned
(04:15):
about it.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
That was great that Bank of America caught it. You know,
it's unfortunate that a few of them got through, but
that's usually what happens. But that they caught it and
called you right away. And and you said, when you
got the phone call and they said they were the bank,
you were leary. And that's good because that's your healthy
skepticism going, Okay, is this really the bank or is
(04:38):
this a scammer trying to call me? And you went
through your verification process and will write to your online
accounts to check things out, and found out it was legitimate.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Right. So then of course they they stopped anymore like
automatic payments from going through, and so every time one
would still come through, I would have to call the
fraud unit, which was a lot of work. First, then
I had to call all of the all of the automatic.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
The companies you have those automatic.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
And I didn't have a new I didn't have a
new bank number at the time. I can't remember how
I did that, but I told them that I would
be sending a new bank account number. Now some or
credit card numbers. Some of them went tried to go
through and they looked legitimate to me, legitimate to be.
(05:39):
After that, I had to call a fraud unit every time.
There are a lot of phone calls. Oh wow, what
was happening? So I I did change all of that,
but it took a long time for it to happen.
There was a lot of work, and then they sent
me paperwork to go and so forth.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
They I saw a copy of the check. Someone had
gotten a copy one of my checks. Sent some money
to a relative and he works in a car dealership,
and I think that he automatically, not automatically, but he
(06:20):
downloaded the check as you can do with.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Your the banking apps on deposit the check that way.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
The check and tear it up. But I think I'm
sure because it was the only check I wrote. That
he left it on a counter there in the garage
where he worked, and somebody caught it and copied it.
Had a copy of a real check, And I guess
it was fortunate. It must have been somebody that wasn't professional,
(06:47):
it didn't know a lot about what he or she
was doing, because they tried to send through a whole
bunch of checks all at once.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Oh, okay or too, and so.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
That's what that's how Bank America caught it right away.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
It was unusual activity on your account and then.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Right av Yeah it was my check and at the
bottom was the correct route number and check number.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
But they changed the amount and signed my name, but
it was signed it obviously it wasn't my signature. You
have talked. I learned a lot from your presentation and
talked about jail pins, and probably I didn't use a
jailpin when I wrote that this is the last check
I ever wrote. I haven't written a check since, but
(07:40):
if I had to, I would use a jail pin.
And I thank you for passing those out at.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
The meeting, very very welcome.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
So it kind of sounds like they might have taken
the one check that they found or an essence stole
and rewrote that check. But it sounds like then they
made some udulant checks based off of the one check
they had.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
If they if they put multiple checks through.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know how. And of course my
relatives just forgot to tear the check up or what.
And probably didn't realize the importance. Actually I didn't either
before that.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, you know, and I think a lot of people don't.
A lot of people are moving to using their phones,
and you know, just about every bank has an app
you can download on your phone. And you know, I
know a lot of I personally don't do it, but
I know a lot of people that do it.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
It's convenient.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
You get a check, you take a picture of it,
and it goes right into your bank account. But the
downside of that is if you don't put the actual
check in a secure place, or you know, kind of
rite void all over it, or some people have even
said kind of rip it through the account number.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Whatever that you know, it's it's.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
People can do exactly what happened to you, right, And
a lot of people don't think about that. They think, well,
I deposited the check, the check's no good, right, but
not thinking it farther through. And unfortunately, in today's world,
we have to think it farther through. We have to think, well,
what if someone got hold of this that was up
(09:21):
to no good?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Changed a lot after that. And so now I have
a couple of different banks and accounts, and the Credit
Union and so I set limits on how much can
be depositor checked each out us and notices every day
(09:48):
on how much money is in the account and all activity.
Now it means I get a lot of almost annoying messages. Yes,
but I am glad they send them. Yeah, and you
know that the credit union is really excessive. They said
it on message. Then they sent another message saying it
I logged into in or someone who if I logged in?
(10:11):
And then they said an email. But that's okay.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah, And you know that is the thing, right is
like with all the emails and the text messages we
get today from a wide variety of things, you know,
it can seem inundating. You open up your inbox and
it's like you have one hundred and fifty emails, right,
and you're just like, oh my gosh, and your mind
automatically goes to all right, delete, delete, delete, and you
(10:36):
end up deleting some important ones. But like you said,
it can get annoying, but you're very thankful that they're
sending all of these because it keeps you informed, It
keeps you notified, and you would get notified right away if.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Something was not right. You would know it and be
able to take action.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
And that has been a big help. And now if
I I'm transferring some money from a brokerage from one
bank or to the credit union, but just changing where
I'm keeping my money. But if I write a check,
one was for a fair amount thirty thousand, and immediately
(11:18):
Bank America, I got a message from them and it
just said did you mean to write this check? Did
you write this check? And I said, and I just
said yes. So I get I watch my phone, I
get the emails on my phone, and of like most
people do, and I just watch it really carefully and
try not to delete any messages that I need to keep.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Right right right, it's it's I know, I have a
lot of alerts set up on mine. I could do
more alerts on my account, and I probably should go
in there and set up you know, more specific alerts,
but especially on the credit cards, right, you know, I
get alerts on those, so I know if if something's wrong,
(12:06):
you know right away. But so I want to get
back to you mentioned you get alerts from your bank
and the credit union. So you get an alert whenever
you log.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
In on the credit Yes, actually on they do, okay,
the credit union. It tells me that I logged in
message and email email, So wait, you know sort of
the way I have it set up.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
And then you get you get an email and or
a message for any activity that happens on your accounts yes, yes, okay,
So that could be a deposit, that could be a transfer,
a check, an ATM or anything like that.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
And I don't well, I don't use ATMs, and I don't.
I have a debit card, but I don't is it.
But on the debit card, I have a limit amount
per day, which is which I think is important to
limit cars to your account. If you're not.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Creous, absolutely you you if you didn't know that before
our presentation. That's one of the things we talk about
is your debit card is a gateway right into the
account that it's that it's connected to. And putting a
limit on how much you can be withdrawn with your
debit card on a daily basis, I think that's great
because if somebody were to get a hold of it,
(13:28):
then they're limited to that dollar amount, right right, and
so it and then you're going to get notified of
the transaction and you'll be able to stop it. So
they're limited to how much they're going to be able
to get out out of that.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
And I I just don't go to ATMs. If I
want cash, I go into the bank, into the credit union.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah, yeah, and that you know, that's good because you know,
card readers, we've seen those for a number of years.
You know, they were always founded gas station pumps outside
right of the gas outside of the actual store.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Not to say that they couldn't be in ATM machines
as well, which is why we recommend people only use
the ATM machine at the bank. Yeah, there still is
a small risk that somebody's going to put a card
reader in an ATM machine at the bank, but they're
going to be on camera right now doing that. So
I think that is a deterrent, right, but not to
(14:30):
say that it's one hundred percent fool proof. So now,
did you also mention that you had an incident with
your credit card?
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Well, actually on a trip to Ireland. There was a
two week trip and we were on a bus and
we all got packed.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
And everybody arms well.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Right, everybody, but Ireland is wide open Wi Fi free
for everybody no matter where you are. Wow, we are
but h to charge anything of course, and we were
immediately hacked.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
And how how did how did you find out about that?
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Well? I learned it actually there was a church it
was that was a year two thousand and went to
ober Ammergall if anybody sort of that, but throughout Europe
we went. But some of the church found out and
informed us, watch out. We think we all got hacked.
So I learned that from them. Then one other time,
(15:29):
actually Bank America said we have to and I've seen
banks do this, that they have to warn everybody there.
We're going to change your credit card because we've been
we've had a problem. Yeah, well that's happened like three times.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, and that that happens with just about every company, right,
no matter if you have a credit card with them
or not. For me, right, they've been breached, your information
has been breached, or their company's gotten hacked into.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Just seeing it a lot.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
I mean, we just put an article out yesterday on
social media about one hundred and twenty eight million email
passwords have been found being sold online. And it wasn't
just one data breach, it was a combination of a
wide variety of data breaches, and so you know, to
(16:24):
make everybody aware of it, to go. There was included
a website I think it was called like have I
Been pond or something like that. But the websites in
that social media post where you can go in and
see if your email was one of the ones that
was breached. But it's always good, right when these breaches
(16:45):
happened to go in and change the passwords and stuff.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
There were a lot of interesting questions that you were
asked at That meeting was an excellent meeting if anybody
else wants to go to one. And one person said, well,
I I want to send money to my grandchildren, which
I do, but how can I do that? Now? I
(17:09):
use Zel after that, and you have to be careful
with Zel. The first time I use it with someone,
I send them like five dollars, just five dollars to
make sure everything went through and it's correct. But for
any transit, any money I send to family, I set
it up with Zel. People have said sometimes because it's
(17:33):
apparently encrypted from end to end, I don't know. I
have no idea how it works, but I've been very
successful with that. Another thing is I know I get now.
I get a lot of text messages Hello, how are
you today? And Chris immediately you have to get rid
of those. And another thing I can add this if
(17:55):
you look on your because I check my accounts every day,
so you look on your account and somebody just charged
a dollar and that's a screen. How does that work?
Is they try to see if it goes through, I think,
and that's a warning.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, they're trying to make sure the card is active
and it's going to go through, and then you'll start
seeing a bunch of higher dollar limits, higher dollar amount
charges running through.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
And another thing I learned at the meeting is that
What's app which we use when one of us is
traveling or overseas, and you can use it all the time.
I don't think this is easy. Well, and maybe it is,
but it's texting is probably easier. But What's app is
safer if you're sending it's encrypto kind of important information.
(18:44):
As I understand it encrypted from end to end.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yes, yes, that is true.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
And I actually just recently started using WhatsApp. I have
some friends that are out of the country, and so
it's a good one to use when you're corresponding with them.
But it is encrypted, and so you just while it's
going to be safer, for you to if you have
to send sensitive information. It's definitely safer than using your
(19:11):
regular text messaging. But you also have to remember that
scammers like it too because it's because it's encrypted, it's
harder for some you know, law enforcement to get in
and and see, you know, what they're doing. So it's
it's safer for us, but it's also safer for them.
So normally when they get a hold of you, like
(19:33):
like for instance, they might message people on social media
like Facebook, and they'll immediately say, well, let's take this
over to a more you know, personal way of texting,
and they'll want to go to WhatsApp or some some
texting app like that that's encrypted, or they'll do the
same thing with those hello how are you right?
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Text scam scams.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
They're just they're trying to stir up a conversation because
normally you and I would would say, well, I'm sorry,
you have the wrong number. We'd want to be polite,
Well I want to let the person know they have
the wrong number. Well, yes, it's the wrong number. To them,
it's not the wrong number because they're they're out there
fishing and they're and then they're going to say something
(20:16):
back to you, and then you're going to want to
be nice and continue the conversation. And so another reason
why it's best just not to engage and just delete it.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
I don't answer any phone calls that I don't know
but uh, and then I let it go to a wastemill.
And of course sometimes they're true, they're legit. Often not,
I get a lot of calls and it says potential spam.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
That's nice.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
There's others too, But I did hear that if if
you someone answers the phone and they say is this,
surely you don't say yes?
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Right?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
And I've heard that from people to the what's called
the say yes scam, And I've talked to a bunch
of different people in cybersecurity and some of them will
say that's not really a scam, and others will say, well,
yes it is. I personally have not read anything out there,
and I'm not saying that I've read everything out there
(21:16):
where someone has.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Been scammed from that.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
But I look at it and as a way of saying,
how easy would it be for someone.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
To do that? With AI?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Now they can record your voice and you know say
that that you said yes to some purchase or something
like that. So I'm I don't know. I'm kind of
up in the air right if it happens a lot
or if it doesn't, I'm up in the air on it.
But something as easy as just not saying yes, saying well,
(21:53):
who's calling or this is her? Or you know something
you know different, you know, it's just another way to
be safe.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Well, I found that I can. I know the banks,
but the banks are even saying don't don't write checks,
and some places won't take them anymore. But I have
found that, Like I wanted to donate to a foundation
here where I live, and I told the director I said,
(22:25):
you know, I said, you can write a check, and
I said, well, I don't. I'd rather not write a check.
She said, oh, well, then you can go to our
portal which I'm on anyway, and use a credit card.
So I always use credit cards, and as I say,
I get a lot of and if I charge something
on the big Bread credit card, it will immediately send
(22:48):
me a message you charged this amount, but you were
not present with the card. In other words, it was online.
I immediately get a warning. I've said, up all these warnings.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Well, so you can actually have it say whether you
actually presented the card or not.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Right, Wow, Okay, that's that's.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Not that's what bank Bank America. And I'm not promoting
any company.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
It's just that that's just.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
They have like a backup uh credit card they use
less just keep active as kind of a backup. Well
that's what I did when Uh Now, I remember when
I was when I was caught that first time, and
they and I had to contact all the companies that
(23:40):
were model I switched them over to the backup credit
card for a while. That's what I did.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yes, I had I'm not sure if it's the presentation
you were at, but I had somebody in the audience
say that, uh, it is a pain, right when because
credit cards get compromised all the time, and when you
have those automatic subscription renewals whatever they are coming being
charged you know, to your account. It's a pain. You
(24:09):
have to take the time to go through and you
have to you know, you get your new card and
then you've got to contact all these places and give
them your new information.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
You know, it's it takes a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
And and someone had said that their friend told them
they have a credit card that is only used for
those automatic subscriptions, those automatic payments. They don't even carry
it with them. They keep it in a locked place,
and so it has a lot less risk of being
compromised because it's not in their wallet. They're not using
(24:43):
it all the time. And that way, if their credit
card that they use on a regular basis gets compromised,
they don't have to worry about changing all those automatic withdrawals,
those automatic payments. So I thought that was that was
really a good way way to save time.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
If I can add one thing. A friend they were
sitting at a restaurant. You know, sometimes you sit on
a bench in the waiting area when it's crowded, you
wait for your table to be open. And so my
friend and her husband sat there and a man sat
next to my friend's husband is named Jack. And the
(25:26):
man sat next to her from then got up and left,
and then when they went to eat, and while they
were eating, I think it was it was a store,
so it wasn't Macy's, but say, I know it wasn't.
That's what I'm meaning, but a regular story. They said,
are you charging a lot for a twelve size twelve
(25:48):
in the children's department right now? And so what had
happened he didn't have one of those cards. It's protected
against whatever I don't want, what you call him. So
then I immediately switched all my little wallets to those
kind of wallets that will protect you against that scam, the.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
R f I D. Right, yes, and uh they so
they make the wallets that are r f I D.
And they make the little sleeves that you can buy,
and you can like buy these sleeves on Amazon. They're
really inexpensive. I can I would imagine you can buy
the wallets there too. But and then they also I've
(26:30):
seen people carry these metal cases that are that are
r f I D as well, and they just keep
all their credit cards in there. That's great because you know,
one of the things we talk about in the presentation is,
you know, the swiping versus the inserting your chip card
(26:52):
or tapping your card. And then this this time, when
we updated a couple months ago, we added the mobile wallet,
which would be like your Zell, your Apple pay, different
things like that. And you know, we say swiping is
the least secure because when you swipe, that information is
not encrypted, and so it's so easy for someone to
(27:13):
get it.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
But when they started.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
With the little chip in your card so you insert it,
or the Wi Fi signal where you can tap it,
that information is encrypted when it's being sent. Oh, I
know it safer, it's safer. But what people do is
they can have that like with the tap with the
Wi Fi signal, they can have a card reader and
(27:38):
they could be sitting, you know, standing right next to
you and they can get into that wireless signal and
that's how they get your card information. So it's which
very well could have happened with the person sitting next
to your friend, right. They could have had something in
their pocket and they were able to they were close
(27:58):
enough were they were able to get that information. But
that r f I D that stops that that transmission.
And so whatever's in that RFI D sleeve, the metal case,
the RFI D wallet, you know, whatever's in there is
protected from that happening.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
I knew the tap was safer, but until you said this, now,
I didn't know why.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yes, yeah, and and the in the chip, you know
it that happens with card readers. So it's the card
readers have been around for years and scammers will they'll
and we found you know when we started to hear
about them years ago. It was like, oh, they're at
this gas station at the pumps. Well, somebody standing with
(28:48):
their back towards the front, right, they can just insert
really quickly a card reader into your naked eye. You
don't realize there's a card reader in there that's reading
your card as you insert it, which is why we
tell people. You know, just if you're using your credit
card and you want to use the chip or the
(29:12):
tap and the terminal's saying it won't, all you can
do is swipe it. Well, go to a different terminal,
and if all of them are like that, then make
the decision. You know, do you really want to do
this transaction? Do you want to take the risk or
maybe pay cash or you know, come back at a
(29:32):
later time, because it could just be there's a glitch
in the company's system that rendered the chip and tap ineffective.
You know, you're not able to use it. But it
also could be there was malware installed and so where
the scammer's forcing people to swipe their cards so they
can get information.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
I also use a lot more cash now, like at restaurants.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Oh okay, I like to.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
Use cash, and then I like to personally tip the
wagers or waiter. So but I'm always learning and it
just seems like we have to be constantly vigilant. May
have no choice.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
So yes, So near field communications NFC is what the
cards use. But you can boost that reading signal with
an antenna and get a reading from everybody in the
room at the same time. So that's what that's what
the communication is. That's used when you have your use
(30:32):
the tap, you know, But then all someone needs is
that antenna and it's small enough it fits in their pocket,
and then they can read people's information. So that r
f I D is what protects and it kind of
it interferes with that signal with that antenna. So then
(30:54):
let's say there was ten of us and there's someone
in there with that antenna in their pocket, and five
of us had RFI D wallets. Well, that person would
only be able to get the information from those other
five people because the RFI D wallet is protecting protecting
you from letting that signal in to get to your information.
(31:16):
All this technology, it is so hard to keep up with.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
It is and like many people will, we depend on
our computers and our phones, and that's what life is now.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
So yeah, there's also these things called Faradays, and I
had forgotten about those, but you can They're called Faraday
cases or cages, and you can get them for your
your cards, your wallet, but you can also get them
to put your cell phone in. You can get like
(31:51):
a case, you can put your laptop in it. So
if you're traveling, if you get one of these, and
I've actually got one and I went to use it
on this last trip, and I have a bigger laptop,
so it didn't fit inside the case before I put
it in my backpack. So what I did is I
(32:12):
just I it folded right, the Faraday case fold and
so I stuck my my laptop in between it like it,
so it was wrapped around it, so it protected it.
Was it as good as having it inside? Probably not,
but it was it was still I think, really good.
(32:32):
And then it that's the way it sits in my backpack.
But yeah, if you just Faraday is fa R a
day and you Yeah, if you just look it up,
you can find a lot of different sizes and for
different electronics.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Yeah, I see that on the message or your I Yeah,
I will look it up on Amazon for sure.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah, yeah, so it's it's another way to protect your
if you're carrying the laptop, an iPad, your phone, right,
especially when traveling out of the country or even traveling
in the country, and you know, you know you're going
to be in a lot of hotels, a lot of restaurants,
right for travel and stuff like that, those are prime
(33:13):
places where.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
You know, even though the Wi Fi is password.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Protected, it's still not secure because you always have to
ask yourself how many people know that password?
Speaker 3 (33:25):
It's not unique to you, right.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
I am wondering when I travel overseas next year. I
went for a few years since my husband passed away.
But I'm wondering if the banks will let you open
a temporary credit card just for that trip. I want
to find.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Out, you know, I would imagine you could open up
a credit card with you know, a bank, you know,
you know whoever.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
And then you use it.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
And then close it and then close it.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
But if you travel, if you travel frequently, maybe a
couple times a year, or you know, you travel out
of the country every year, And I see this advertised
a lot, and it's with Chase Bank, and I'm thinking
that a lot of the other big banks probably do
the same thing is that you can have the card open,
(34:23):
you know, active, but then when you come back you
can turn the card off. You can go on to
your online app or equally to get into your online
banking and just turn the card off. They use it
a lot for protections where if you've lost your card,
you can go in and say, turn this card off,
so if someone finds it, they can't use it because
(34:44):
you've turned it off. And that way you don't have
to keep applying for a new one and then closing
it and applying and closing because every time, unfortunately, when
you hit you know, apply for credit, it affects your
credit score. And if you've frozen your credit, one of
the people that have your credit frozen, they're going to
have to unfreeze it, I know, and then do it
(35:05):
and then refreeze it again.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
So all the things you have to think about.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
I know, but I learned a lot. I'm always learning,
and I really appreciate if anybody can go to your conference.
It was thank you, excellent, excellent.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Thank you well. I really appreciate that. Is there anything
anything in closing you want to say?
Speaker 4 (35:27):
I can tell you one good story down the I
live in the apartments, so to speak now and down
the hall. I was coming back to my apartment and
my friend was there with security. I live in a
big place, and security was there. And she had gone
to the store for groceries. And then she came back
(35:49):
and she realized that she left her purse somewhere.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
And she realized she left it in the cart in
the parking lot. Oh no, And so she didn't know
what to do. And you didn't have her phone either,
because it was in the interse So I called. I
called the store right away and they said, well, let
me check, and somebody had turned it and with everything
(36:14):
in us.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Oh nice.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Well there are good people too, there are still good
people out there. Yes, there are still good people out there.
I love to hear that, right, because that you really
know someone is a great person when they do that.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
There are people that won't even think twice, this is
not mine. Somebody left it. I'm going to take it
to the store because they're probably going to call instead
of going, oh, well, maybe I should go through it.
Let me see what they have in it. You know,
they won't miss this, and right, So yeah, so that's great.
I'm glad you shared that, so I did want to.
(36:53):
I actually got an email this morning from one of
the places that I'm subscribed to, and I've not heard
of this scam. It's called ghost tapping, and so I'm
gonna read it from the article really quick, give you
some information. But then also it's about your mobile wallets,
so this would be Zell and Apple Pay and stuff
(37:15):
like that. So let me just read it from the article.
So there's a new scam called ghost tapping. The Better
Business Bureau warns that scammers are using this tactic to
steal money from people who use tap to pay credit
cards and mobile wallets. So the mobile wallet and I
use Apple Pay, but I only have one credit card
(37:36):
on it, and so I could actually take my phone
when I go to pay and use it like a.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Credit card, just tap it on the terminal.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
So it's exploiting the wireless technology to withdraw money without
you knowing it.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Let's see it says.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Ah, So here it is they're using this near field communication.
Where did we hear that? But thank you one for
that information. That mimic legitimate tap to pay systems. So
in busy places such as festivals, markets or public transportation,
they move close enough to your wallet or your phone
(38:15):
and it triggers a transaction. So the Better Business Bureau
has said they've seen some scammers pose as charity vendors
or market sellers who only accept tap payments, and so
once you tap your car or your phone, they then
charge far more for the agreed agreed upon amount. But
you don't actually have to tap it because as they
(38:37):
said earlier, they just need to get close to you
and it can happen. So this is a real life case.
There was a Missouri resident who lost one hundred dollars
after being approached by a person carrying a handheld card reader.
(38:58):
There was the Better Business Bureau recorded many similar cases
across the United States, with losses sometimes exceeding one thousand dollars.
So they're going to want to pressure you to complete
the payment quickly, preventing you from verifying the amount or
the merchant's name. And that happens a lot right at
those like public transportation, at those outdoor festivals, things that
(39:20):
are in public where they might have a lot of
customers and they're just trying to go from one to
the next, so they can even carry the you know,
they carry the portable readers that pick up those signals
through your purse, through your wallet. So what's the number
one thing to protect yourself? Invest in an RFID blocking
wallet or card sleeve to create that physical barrier between
(39:43):
your card and those scanners. You can look on Amazon
and you can or you know, I'm sure best Buy
all those other places probably have them as well, and
you can get them for your phone, your laptop, your iPads,
you know, your wallets, your credit cards, all that stuff,
and verify before you tap, verify that the merchant name
(40:04):
and the transaction amount displayed is actually correct. And like
Shirley does, she has instant alerts, so she gets those
alerts and she knows right away if it was her
or if it wasn't, and she can shut she can
shut the account down so they can't get any more money.
You know, be cautious and crowded areas. And like Shirley does,
(40:28):
she monitors her accounts every day.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
So most mobile wallet apps, and this is going.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
To be like Apple pay and Google Pay and stuff
like that, they'll allow you to set pins facial recognition,
fingerprint verification before you authorize the transaction. So if you
have something like that set up, when a transaction goes
to go through, and a scammer's trying to do it,
they're going to need a pin, a facial recognition, a fingerprint.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
You know.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Now, if you're standing in the public area and you've
just paid somebody, it's easy for them to hold their
phone up, you know, to your by your face and
it can get it. But fingerprint's going to be a
little harder. They're going to have to grab your finger
and which then right, you're going to be like, don't
touch me. But but yeah, so, uh, that is quite
(41:21):
interesting that that came through on my email this morning,
because that ghost tapping is exactly what we were talking about,
right if Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what it is. That
Near Field Communications is there with their antennae, with their software,
(41:42):
they're able to break that and and get into your stuff,
right yeah. So wow, this is great and I'm so
glad that I got into that article and started reading
it because it just fit perfectly with today. So anyways, yes,
thank you, all right, thank you so much. Surely I
(42:04):
really appreciate you taking the time and your willingness to
share this information. I'm sure it's going to help many
people out there. They're going to start putting alerts, you know,
on their accounts there. You know, maybe some people stop
writing checks, like you said, and I've heard this from
many people. Banks are really trying to get people to
stop writing checks. They want everybody to do online. One
(42:28):
of the reasons is specifically what you went through, because
you have to safeguard those checks even after you've deposited
them electronically. So yes, thank you again, and I hope
to see you at another presentation. Thank you all right,
take care, thank you, so thank you everyone for joining today.
(42:51):
And lots of great information. Surely is a wealth of information.
She already has a lot of protections in place, and
she put more protections in place after attending one of
our seminars where we go through a wide variety of
resources and different things you can do to help protect yourself.
(43:12):
And you know, check out those Faraday bags for all
of your electronics. Look at getting the RFID, whether it's
the sleeves to put your credit cards in and your
debit card. You know, you really should only use your
debit card if you're going to be at the bank.
They always want you to put it in the reader
(43:33):
so they can pull your account up quicker but if
you're going to use an ATM, use an ATM at
the bank, or like surely does she doesn't use ATMs,
she goes directly into the bank to take money out.
But you want to protect your accounts and you want
to protect your devices, and this is a great way
to do it, and don't forget visit our website, Roseadvocacy
(43:55):
dot org. Our social media links are all there, and yes,
our Facebook account is back, so we're going to be
posting on there just about every day with more great information.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
Scroll down to the.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Bottom of the homepage you can see the links, not
the links. You can just fill out some information to
sign up for our emailed newsletter and or our mailed newsletter.
And the emailed newsletter comes out every two well, the
mini one with the Tuesday tip comes out every Tuesday
morning at nine point fifteen, So that just recently came
(44:26):
out for this week.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
And we have an event coming up.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
April tenth of twenty twenty six, is our fourth annual
golf tournament here in Phoenix. If you're here in Phoenix
or you're going to be in town that week, check
us out. It's on the website, it's on the website,
but it's also it has a specific website. You can
(44:51):
just get in touch with us and we can send
you all that information. We're looking for sponsors, auction items, volunteers, golfers,
all types stuff. So more information on that to come
in the newsletters and social media. And Brian is going
to be with you for the next two weeks, so
look forward to chatting with Brian over the next couple weeks. Thanks,
(45:13):
and I'll see you back later this month.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Well that's all the knowledge for this episode. Tune in
every Tuesday at eight am Pacific time on KFOURHD Radio
at KFOURHD dot com as Joyce explores a variety of knowledge.
So you have the power to make scam protection your
healthy habit and until then, feel free to reach out
to Joyce and let's talk about scams.
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek
(00:22):
the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any
suggested ideas. The information contained in this podcast is intended
for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for
individual professional legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled
from vetted sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to
(00:44):
safeguard the elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall
victim to a scam. Let's talk about scams. It's the
must listen show for anyone who wants to protect themselves
and their loved ones from scams. Every Tuesday am Pacific
time on K four HD Radio, Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose,
(01:05):
and her guests will provide valuable insights and practical tips
on how to recognize and protect yourself from scams. And
now here is your host, Joyce Petrowski.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Hi, everyone, welcome back to let's talk about scams. I'm
Joyce Petrowski, founder and board president of Rose Resources Outreach
to safeguard the elderly. You can find more information on
our website at Roseadvocacy dot org. If you scroll down
to the bottom of the homepage, you'll find the links
to sign up for our emailed newsletter and or our
(01:41):
mailed newsletter. They come out every month, and our emailed
newsletter every Tuesday at nine to fifteen am, so in
about ten fifteen minutes we send out a Tuesday tip.
It's nice to get this even if you already know
the tip. That's great, But what it does is it's
a reminder to keep scam prevention and your healthy skepticism
(02:04):
top of mind, so the next time you're contacted, you'll
be more apt to think scam and pause and do
the steps you need to do in order to verify everything.
You also find our social media links on the website
and Facebook is back.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Our Facebook account is back up. It's been about.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Oh gosh too a little over two months, but we
finally got it reactivated, so it's back and you'll see
a lot more posts there. So today I have a
guest named Shirley who's going to join us to talk
about her scam experience and why she doesn't write checks anymore.
So let's welcome Shirley.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Hi, Charley, Hi there, how are you?
Speaker 4 (02:52):
I'm good?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Thank you good. So Shirley attended one of our presentations.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Recently and we got to talking and she said, you know,
I'd be willing to share my experience, you know, on
the radio show. So she's here with us today, and
why don't you tell us a little bit about your experience.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
I received a call from my bank to back up
a bit. I checked my accounts on every day, Oh,
my bank accounts and so forth, keep track of everything
that's good. And then I received a call was Bank Americas,
Well Home bank, and they said, have you been writing
(03:33):
a series of big checks? Well, of course then you
And that was a phone call, so I was leary
of it. So I got on the web right away,
and what the lady said was true, and they had
stopped a series of checks from coming, but in the meantime,
three or four of them went through before their ability
(03:54):
or whatever it is, stopped any more checks from coming. Okay,
And so that's how I first learned about it. So,
of course you immediately stopped the account, which of course
was the account with all the automatic reductions. Yes, and
so from then I and so that's how I learned
(04:15):
about it.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
That was great that Bank of America caught it. You know,
it's unfortunate that a few of them got through, but
that's usually what happens. But that they caught it and
called you right away. And and you said, when you
got the phone call and they said they were the bank,
you were leary. And that's good because that's your healthy
skepticism going, Okay, is this really the bank or is
(04:38):
this a scammer trying to call me? And you went
through your verification process and will write to your online
accounts to check things out, and found out it was legitimate.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Right. So then of course they they stopped anymore like
automatic payments from going through, and so every time one
would still come through, I would have to call the
fraud unit, which was a lot of work. First, then
I had to call all of the all of the automatic.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
The companies you have those automatic.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
And I didn't have a new I didn't have a
new bank number at the time. I can't remember how
I did that, but I told them that I would
be sending a new bank account number. Now some or
credit card numbers. Some of them went tried to go
through and they looked legitimate to me, legitimate to be.
(05:39):
After that, I had to call a fraud unit every time.
There are a lot of phone calls. Oh wow, what
was happening? So I I did change all of that,
but it took a long time for it to happen.
There was a lot of work, and then they sent
me paperwork to go and so forth.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
They I saw a copy of the check. Someone had
gotten a copy one of my checks. Sent some money
to a relative and he works in a car dealership,
and I think that he automatically, not automatically, but he
(06:20):
downloaded the check as you can do with.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Your the banking apps on deposit the check that way.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
The check and tear it up. But I think I'm
sure because it was the only check I wrote. That
he left it on a counter there in the garage
where he worked, and somebody caught it and copied it.
Had a copy of a real check, And I guess
it was fortunate. It must have been somebody that wasn't professional,
(06:47):
it didn't know a lot about what he or she
was doing, because they tried to send through a whole
bunch of checks all at once.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Oh, okay or too, and so.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
That's what that's how Bank America caught it right away.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
It was unusual activity on your account and then.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Right av Yeah it was my check and at the
bottom was the correct route number and check number.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
But they changed the amount and signed my name, but
it was signed it obviously it wasn't my signature. You
have talked. I learned a lot from your presentation and
talked about jail pins, and probably I didn't use a
jailpin when I wrote that this is the last check
I ever wrote. I haven't written a check since, but
(07:40):
if I had to, I would use a jail pin.
And I thank you for passing those out at.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
The meeting, very very welcome.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
So it kind of sounds like they might have taken
the one check that they found or an essence stole
and rewrote that check. But it sounds like then they
made some udulant checks based off of the one check
they had.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
If they if they put multiple checks through.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know how. And of course my
relatives just forgot to tear the check up or what.
And probably didn't realize the importance. Actually I didn't either
before that.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, you know, and I think a lot of people don't.
A lot of people are moving to using their phones,
and you know, just about every bank has an app
you can download on your phone. And you know, I
know a lot of I personally don't do it, but
I know a lot of people that do it.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
It's convenient.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
You get a check, you take a picture of it,
and it goes right into your bank account. But the
downside of that is if you don't put the actual
check in a secure place, or you know, kind of
rite void all over it, or some people have even
said kind of rip it through the account number.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Whatever that you know, it's it's.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
People can do exactly what happened to you, right, And
a lot of people don't think about that. They think, well,
I deposited the check, the check's no good, right, but
not thinking it farther through. And unfortunately, in today's world,
we have to think it farther through. We have to think, well,
what if someone got hold of this that was up
(09:21):
to no good?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Changed a lot after that. And so now I have
a couple of different banks and accounts, and the Credit
Union and so I set limits on how much can
be depositor checked each out us and notices every day
(09:48):
on how much money is in the account and all activity.
Now it means I get a lot of almost annoying messages. Yes,
but I am glad they send them. Yeah, and you
know that the credit union is really excessive. They said
it on message. Then they sent another message saying it
I logged into in or someone who if I logged in?
(10:11):
And then they said an email. But that's okay.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah, And you know that is the thing, right is
like with all the emails and the text messages we
get today from a wide variety of things, you know,
it can seem inundating. You open up your inbox and
it's like you have one hundred and fifty emails, right,
and you're just like, oh my gosh, and your mind
automatically goes to all right, delete, delete, delete, and you
(10:36):
end up deleting some important ones. But like you said,
it can get annoying, but you're very thankful that they're
sending all of these because it keeps you informed, It
keeps you notified, and you would get notified right away if.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Something was not right. You would know it and be
able to take action.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
And that has been a big help. And now if
I I'm transferring some money from a brokerage from one
bank or to the credit union, but just changing where
I'm keeping my money. But if I write a check,
one was for a fair amount thirty thousand, and immediately
(11:18):
Bank America, I got a message from them and it
just said did you mean to write this check? Did
you write this check? And I said, and I just
said yes. So I get I watch my phone, I
get the emails on my phone, and of like most
people do, and I just watch it really carefully and
try not to delete any messages that I need to keep.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Right right right, it's it's I know, I have a
lot of alerts set up on mine. I could do
more alerts on my account, and I probably should go
in there and set up you know, more specific alerts,
but especially on the credit cards, right, you know, I
get alerts on those, so I know if if something's wrong,
(12:06):
you know right away. But so I want to get
back to you mentioned you get alerts from your bank
and the credit union. So you get an alert whenever
you log.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
In on the credit Yes, actually on they do, okay,
the credit union. It tells me that I logged in
message and email email, So wait, you know sort of
the way I have it set up.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
And then you get you get an email and or
a message for any activity that happens on your accounts yes, yes, okay,
So that could be a deposit, that could be a transfer,
a check, an ATM or anything like that.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
And I don't well, I don't use ATMs, and I don't.
I have a debit card, but I don't is it.
But on the debit card, I have a limit amount
per day, which is which I think is important to
limit cars to your account. If you're not.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Creous, absolutely you you if you didn't know that before
our presentation. That's one of the things we talk about
is your debit card is a gateway right into the
account that it's that it's connected to. And putting a
limit on how much you can be withdrawn with your
debit card on a daily basis, I think that's great
because if somebody were to get a hold of it,
(13:28):
then they're limited to that dollar amount, right right, and
so it and then you're going to get notified of
the transaction and you'll be able to stop it. So
they're limited to how much they're going to be able
to get out out of that.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
And I I just don't go to ATMs. If I
want cash, I go into the bank, into the credit union.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah, yeah, and that you know, that's good because you know,
card readers, we've seen those for a number of years.
You know, they were always founded gas station pumps outside
right of the gas outside of the actual store.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Not to say that they couldn't be in ATM machines
as well, which is why we recommend people only use
the ATM machine at the bank. Yeah, there still is
a small risk that somebody's going to put a card
reader in an ATM machine at the bank, but they're
going to be on camera right now doing that. So
I think that is a deterrent, right, but not to
(14:30):
say that it's one hundred percent fool proof. So now,
did you also mention that you had an incident with
your credit card?
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Well, actually on a trip to Ireland. There was a
two week trip and we were on a bus and
we all got packed.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
And everybody arms well.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Right, everybody, but Ireland is wide open Wi Fi free
for everybody no matter where you are. Wow, we are
but h to charge anything of course, and we were
immediately hacked.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
And how how did how did you find out about that?
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Well? I learned it actually there was a church it
was that was a year two thousand and went to
ober Ammergall if anybody sort of that, but throughout Europe
we went. But some of the church found out and
informed us, watch out. We think we all got hacked.
So I learned that from them. Then one other time,
(15:29):
actually Bank America said we have to and I've seen
banks do this, that they have to warn everybody there.
We're going to change your credit card because we've been
we've had a problem. Yeah, well that's happened like three times.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, and that that happens with just about every company, right,
no matter if you have a credit card with them
or not. For me, right, they've been breached, your information
has been breached, or their company's gotten hacked into.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Just seeing it a lot.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
I mean, we just put an article out yesterday on
social media about one hundred and twenty eight million email
passwords have been found being sold online. And it wasn't
just one data breach, it was a combination of a
wide variety of data breaches, and so you know, to
(16:24):
make everybody aware of it, to go. There was included
a website I think it was called like have I
Been pond or something like that. But the websites in
that social media post where you can go in and
see if your email was one of the ones that
was breached. But it's always good, right when these breaches
(16:45):
happened to go in and change the passwords and stuff.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
There were a lot of interesting questions that you were
asked at That meeting was an excellent meeting if anybody
else wants to go to one. And one person said, well,
I I want to send money to my grandchildren, which
I do, but how can I do that? Now? I
(17:09):
use Zel after that, and you have to be careful
with Zel. The first time I use it with someone,
I send them like five dollars, just five dollars to
make sure everything went through and it's correct. But for
any transit, any money I send to family, I set
it up with Zel. People have said sometimes because it's
(17:33):
apparently encrypted from end to end, I don't know. I
have no idea how it works, but I've been very
successful with that. Another thing is I know I get now.
I get a lot of text messages Hello, how are
you today? And Chris immediately you have to get rid
of those. And another thing I can add this if
(17:55):
you look on your because I check my accounts every day,
so you look on your account and somebody just charged
a dollar and that's a screen. How does that work?
Is they try to see if it goes through, I think,
and that's a warning.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, they're trying to make sure the card is active
and it's going to go through, and then you'll start
seeing a bunch of higher dollar limits, higher dollar amount
charges running through.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
And another thing I learned at the meeting is that
What's app which we use when one of us is
traveling or overseas, and you can use it all the time.
I don't think this is easy. Well, and maybe it is,
but it's texting is probably easier. But What's app is
safer if you're sending it's encrypto kind of important information.
(18:44):
As I understand it encrypted from end to end.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yes, yes, that is true.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
And I actually just recently started using WhatsApp. I have
some friends that are out of the country, and so
it's a good one to use when you're corresponding with them.
But it is encrypted, and so you just while it's
going to be safer, for you to if you have
to send sensitive information. It's definitely safer than using your
(19:11):
regular text messaging. But you also have to remember that
scammers like it too because it's because it's encrypted, it's
harder for some you know, law enforcement to get in
and and see, you know, what they're doing. So it's
it's safer for us, but it's also safer for them.
So normally when they get a hold of you, like
(19:33):
like for instance, they might message people on social media
like Facebook, and they'll immediately say, well, let's take this
over to a more you know, personal way of texting,
and they'll want to go to WhatsApp or some some
texting app like that that's encrypted, or they'll do the
same thing with those hello how are you right?
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Text scam scams.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
They're just they're trying to stir up a conversation because
normally you and I would would say, well, I'm sorry,
you have the wrong number. We'd want to be polite,
Well I want to let the person know they have
the wrong number. Well, yes, it's the wrong number. To them,
it's not the wrong number because they're they're out there
fishing and they're and then they're going to say something
(20:16):
back to you, and then you're going to want to
be nice and continue the conversation. And so another reason
why it's best just not to engage and just delete it.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
I don't answer any phone calls that I don't know
but uh, and then I let it go to a wastemill.
And of course sometimes they're true, they're legit. Often not,
I get a lot of calls and it says potential spam.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
That's nice.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
There's others too, But I did hear that if if
you someone answers the phone and they say is this,
surely you don't say yes?
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Right?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
And I've heard that from people to the what's called
the say yes scam, And I've talked to a bunch
of different people in cybersecurity and some of them will
say that's not really a scam, and others will say, well,
yes it is. I personally have not read anything out there,
and I'm not saying that I've read everything out there
(21:16):
where someone has.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Been scammed from that.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
But I look at it and as a way of saying,
how easy would it be for someone.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
To do that? With AI?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Now they can record your voice and you know say
that that you said yes to some purchase or something
like that. So I'm I don't know. I'm kind of
up in the air right if it happens a lot
or if it doesn't, I'm up in the air on it.
But something as easy as just not saying yes, saying well,
(21:53):
who's calling or this is her? Or you know something
you know different, you know, it's just another way to
be safe.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Well, I found that I can. I know the banks,
but the banks are even saying don't don't write checks,
and some places won't take them anymore. But I have
found that, Like I wanted to donate to a foundation
here where I live, and I told the director I said,
(22:25):
you know, I said, you can write a check, and
I said, well, I don't. I'd rather not write a check.
She said, oh, well, then you can go to our
portal which I'm on anyway, and use a credit card.
So I always use credit cards, and as I say,
I get a lot of and if I charge something
on the big Bread credit card, it will immediately send
(22:48):
me a message you charged this amount, but you were
not present with the card. In other words, it was online.
I immediately get a warning. I've said, up all these warnings.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Well, so you can actually have it say whether you
actually presented the card or not.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Right, Wow, Okay, that's that's.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Not that's what bank Bank America. And I'm not promoting
any company.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
It's just that that's just.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
They have like a backup uh credit card they use
less just keep active as kind of a backup. Well
that's what I did when Uh Now, I remember when
I was when I was caught that first time, and
they and I had to contact all the companies that
(23:40):
were model I switched them over to the backup credit
card for a while. That's what I did.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yes, I had I'm not sure if it's the presentation
you were at, but I had somebody in the audience
say that, uh, it is a pain, right when because
credit cards get compromised all the time, and when you
have those automatic subscription renewals whatever they are coming being
charged you know, to your account. It's a pain. You
(24:09):
have to take the time to go through and you
have to you know, you get your new card and
then you've got to contact all these places and give
them your new information.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
You know, it's it takes a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
And and someone had said that their friend told them
they have a credit card that is only used for
those automatic subscriptions, those automatic payments. They don't even carry
it with them. They keep it in a locked place,
and so it has a lot less risk of being
compromised because it's not in their wallet. They're not using
(24:43):
it all the time. And that way, if their credit
card that they use on a regular basis gets compromised,
they don't have to worry about changing all those automatic withdrawals,
those automatic payments. So I thought that was that was
really a good way way to save time.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
If I can add one thing. A friend they were
sitting at a restaurant. You know, sometimes you sit on
a bench in the waiting area when it's crowded, you
wait for your table to be open. And so my
friend and her husband sat there and a man sat
next to my friend's husband is named Jack. And the
(25:26):
man sat next to her from then got up and left,
and then when they went to eat, and while they
were eating, I think it was it was a store,
so it wasn't Macy's, but say, I know it wasn't.
That's what I'm meaning, but a regular story. They said,
are you charging a lot for a twelve size twelve
(25:48):
in the children's department right now? And so what had
happened he didn't have one of those cards. It's protected
against whatever I don't want, what you call him. So
then I immediately switched all my little wallets to those
kind of wallets that will protect you against that scam, the.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
R f I D. Right, yes, and uh they so
they make the wallets that are r f I D.
And they make the little sleeves that you can buy,
and you can like buy these sleeves on Amazon. They're
really inexpensive. I can I would imagine you can buy
the wallets there too. But and then they also I've
(26:30):
seen people carry these metal cases that are that are
r f I D as well, and they just keep
all their credit cards in there. That's great because you know,
one of the things we talk about in the presentation is,
you know, the swiping versus the inserting your chip card
(26:52):
or tapping your card. And then this this time, when
we updated a couple months ago, we added the mobile wallet,
which would be like your Zell, your Apple pay, different
things like that. And you know, we say swiping is
the least secure because when you swipe, that information is
not encrypted, and so it's so easy for someone to
(27:13):
get it.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
But when they started.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
With the little chip in your card so you insert it,
or the Wi Fi signal where you can tap it,
that information is encrypted when it's being sent. Oh, I
know it safer, it's safer. But what people do is
they can have that like with the tap with the
Wi Fi signal, they can have a card reader and
(27:38):
they could be sitting, you know, standing right next to
you and they can get into that wireless signal and
that's how they get your card information. So it's which
very well could have happened with the person sitting next
to your friend, right. They could have had something in
their pocket and they were able to they were close
(27:58):
enough were they were able to get that information. But
that r f I D that stops that that transmission.
And so whatever's in that RFI D sleeve, the metal case,
the RFI D wallet, you know, whatever's in there is
protected from that happening.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
I knew the tap was safer, but until you said this, now,
I didn't know why.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yes, yeah, and and the in the chip, you know
it that happens with card readers. So it's the card
readers have been around for years and scammers will they'll
and we found you know when we started to hear
about them years ago. It was like, oh, they're at
this gas station at the pumps. Well, somebody standing with
(28:48):
their back towards the front, right, they can just insert
really quickly a card reader into your naked eye. You
don't realize there's a card reader in there that's reading
your card as you insert it, which is why we
tell people. You know, just if you're using your credit
card and you want to use the chip or the
(29:12):
tap and the terminal's saying it won't, all you can
do is swipe it. Well, go to a different terminal,
and if all of them are like that, then make
the decision. You know, do you really want to do
this transaction? Do you want to take the risk or
maybe pay cash or you know, come back at a
(29:32):
later time, because it could just be there's a glitch
in the company's system that rendered the chip and tap ineffective.
You know, you're not able to use it. But it
also could be there was malware installed and so where
the scammer's forcing people to swipe their cards so they
can get information.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
I also use a lot more cash now, like at restaurants.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Oh okay, I like to.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
Use cash, and then I like to personally tip the
wagers or waiter. So but I'm always learning and it
just seems like we have to be constantly vigilant. May
have no choice.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
So yes, So near field communications NFC is what the
cards use. But you can boost that reading signal with
an antenna and get a reading from everybody in the
room at the same time. So that's what that's what
the communication is. That's used when you have your use
(30:32):
the tap, you know, But then all someone needs is
that antenna and it's small enough it fits in their pocket,
and then they can read people's information. So that r
f I D is what protects and it kind of
it interferes with that signal with that antenna. So then
(30:54):
let's say there was ten of us and there's someone
in there with that antenna in their pocket, and five
of us had RFI D wallets. Well, that person would
only be able to get the information from those other
five people because the RFI D wallet is protecting protecting
you from letting that signal in to get to your information.
(31:16):
All this technology, it is so hard to keep up with.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
It is and like many people will, we depend on
our computers and our phones, and that's what life is now.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
So yeah, there's also these things called Faradays, and I
had forgotten about those, but you can They're called Faraday
cases or cages, and you can get them for your
your cards, your wallet, but you can also get them
to put your cell phone in. You can get like
(31:51):
a case, you can put your laptop in it. So
if you're traveling, if you get one of these, and
I've actually got one and I went to use it
on this last trip, and I have a bigger laptop,
so it didn't fit inside the case before I put
it in my backpack. So what I did is I
(32:12):
just I it folded right, the Faraday case fold and
so I stuck my my laptop in between it like it,
so it was wrapped around it, so it protected it.
Was it as good as having it inside? Probably not,
but it was it was still I think, really good.
(32:32):
And then it that's the way it sits in my backpack.
But yeah, if you just Faraday is fa R a
day and you Yeah, if you just look it up,
you can find a lot of different sizes and for
different electronics.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Yeah, I see that on the message or your I Yeah,
I will look it up on Amazon for sure.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah, yeah, so it's it's another way to protect your
if you're carrying the laptop, an iPad, your phone, right,
especially when traveling out of the country or even traveling
in the country, and you know, you know you're going
to be in a lot of hotels, a lot of restaurants,
right for travel and stuff like that, those are prime
(33:13):
places where.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
You know, even though the Wi Fi is password.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Protected, it's still not secure because you always have to
ask yourself how many people know that password?
Speaker 3 (33:25):
It's not unique to you, right.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
I am wondering when I travel overseas next year. I
went for a few years since my husband passed away.
But I'm wondering if the banks will let you open
a temporary credit card just for that trip. I want
to find.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Out, you know, I would imagine you could open up
a credit card with you know, a bank, you know,
you know whoever.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
And then you use it.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
And then close it and then close it.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
But if you travel, if you travel frequently, maybe a
couple times a year, or you know, you travel out
of the country every year, And I see this advertised
a lot, and it's with Chase Bank, and I'm thinking
that a lot of the other big banks probably do
the same thing is that you can have the card open,
(34:23):
you know, active, but then when you come back you
can turn the card off. You can go on to
your online app or equally to get into your online
banking and just turn the card off. They use it
a lot for protections where if you've lost your card,
you can go in and say, turn this card off,
so if someone finds it, they can't use it because
(34:44):
you've turned it off. And that way you don't have
to keep applying for a new one and then closing
it and applying and closing because every time, unfortunately, when
you hit you know, apply for credit, it affects your
credit score. And if you've frozen your credit, one of
the people that have your credit frozen, they're going to
have to unfreeze it, I know, and then do it
(35:05):
and then refreeze it again.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
So all the things you have to think about.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
I know, but I learned a lot. I'm always learning,
and I really appreciate if anybody can go to your conference.
It was thank you, excellent, excellent.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Thank you well. I really appreciate that. Is there anything
anything in closing you want to say?
Speaker 4 (35:27):
I can tell you one good story down the I
live in the apartments, so to speak now and down
the hall. I was coming back to my apartment and
my friend was there with security. I live in a
big place, and security was there. And she had gone
to the store for groceries. And then she came back
(35:49):
and she realized that she left her purse somewhere.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
And she realized she left it in the cart in
the parking lot. Oh no, And so she didn't know
what to do. And you didn't have her phone either,
because it was in the interse So I called. I
called the store right away and they said, well, let
me check, and somebody had turned it and with everything
(36:14):
in us.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Oh nice.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Well there are good people too, there are still good
people out there. Yes, there are still good people out there.
I love to hear that, right, because that you really
know someone is a great person when they do that.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
There are people that won't even think twice, this is
not mine. Somebody left it. I'm going to take it
to the store because they're probably going to call instead
of going, oh, well, maybe I should go through it.
Let me see what they have in it. You know,
they won't miss this, and right, So yeah, so that's great.
I'm glad you shared that, so I did want to.
(36:53):
I actually got an email this morning from one of
the places that I'm subscribed to, and I've not heard
of this scam. It's called ghost tapping, and so I'm
gonna read it from the article really quick, give you
some information. But then also it's about your mobile wallets,
so this would be Zell and Apple Pay and stuff
(37:15):
like that. So let me just read it from the article.
So there's a new scam called ghost tapping. The Better
Business Bureau warns that scammers are using this tactic to
steal money from people who use tap to pay credit
cards and mobile wallets. So the mobile wallet and I
use Apple Pay, but I only have one credit card
(37:36):
on it, and so I could actually take my phone
when I go to pay and use it like a.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Credit card, just tap it on the terminal.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
So it's exploiting the wireless technology to withdraw money without
you knowing it.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Let's see it says.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Ah, So here it is they're using this near field communication.
Where did we hear that? But thank you one for
that information. That mimic legitimate tap to pay systems. So
in busy places such as festivals, markets or public transportation,
they move close enough to your wallet or your phone
(38:15):
and it triggers a transaction. So the Better Business Bureau
has said they've seen some scammers pose as charity vendors
or market sellers who only accept tap payments, and so
once you tap your car or your phone, they then
charge far more for the agreed agreed upon amount. But
you don't actually have to tap it because as they
(38:37):
said earlier, they just need to get close to you
and it can happen. So this is a real life case.
There was a Missouri resident who lost one hundred dollars
after being approached by a person carrying a handheld card reader.
(38:58):
There was the Better Business Bureau recorded many similar cases
across the United States, with losses sometimes exceeding one thousand dollars.
So they're going to want to pressure you to complete
the payment quickly, preventing you from verifying the amount or
the merchant's name. And that happens a lot right at
those like public transportation, at those outdoor festivals, things that
(39:20):
are in public where they might have a lot of
customers and they're just trying to go from one to
the next, so they can even carry the you know,
they carry the portable readers that pick up those signals
through your purse, through your wallet. So what's the number
one thing to protect yourself? Invest in an RFID blocking
wallet or card sleeve to create that physical barrier between
(39:43):
your card and those scanners. You can look on Amazon
and you can or you know, I'm sure best Buy
all those other places probably have them as well, and
you can get them for your phone, your laptop, your iPads,
you know, your wallets, your credit cards, all that stuff,
and verify before you tap, verify that the merchant name
(40:04):
and the transaction amount displayed is actually correct. And like
Shirley does, she has instant alerts, so she gets those
alerts and she knows right away if it was her
or if it wasn't, and she can shut she can
shut the account down so they can't get any more money.
You know, be cautious and crowded areas. And like Shirley does,
(40:28):
she monitors her accounts every day.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
So most mobile wallet apps, and this is going.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
To be like Apple pay and Google Pay and stuff
like that, they'll allow you to set pins facial recognition,
fingerprint verification before you authorize the transaction. So if you
have something like that set up, when a transaction goes
to go through, and a scammer's trying to do it,
they're going to need a pin, a facial recognition, a fingerprint.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
You know.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Now, if you're standing in the public area and you've
just paid somebody, it's easy for them to hold their
phone up, you know, to your by your face and
it can get it. But fingerprint's going to be a
little harder. They're going to have to grab your finger
and which then right, you're going to be like, don't
touch me. But but yeah, so, uh, that is quite
(41:21):
interesting that that came through on my email this morning,
because that ghost tapping is exactly what we were talking about,
right if Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what it is. That
Near Field Communications is there with their antennae, with their software,
(41:42):
they're able to break that and and get into your stuff,
right yeah. So wow, this is great and I'm so
glad that I got into that article and started reading
it because it just fit perfectly with today. So anyways, yes,
thank you, all right, thank you so much. Surely I
(42:04):
really appreciate you taking the time and your willingness to
share this information. I'm sure it's going to help many
people out there. They're going to start putting alerts, you know,
on their accounts there. You know, maybe some people stop
writing checks, like you said, and I've heard this from
many people. Banks are really trying to get people to
stop writing checks. They want everybody to do online. One
(42:28):
of the reasons is specifically what you went through, because
you have to safeguard those checks even after you've deposited
them electronically. So yes, thank you again, and I hope
to see you at another presentation. Thank you all right,
take care, thank you, so thank you everyone for joining today.
(42:51):
And lots of great information. Surely is a wealth of information.
She already has a lot of protections in place, and
she put more protections in place after attending one of
our seminars where we go through a wide variety of
resources and different things you can do to help protect yourself.
(43:12):
And you know, check out those Faraday bags for all
of your electronics. Look at getting the RFID, whether it's
the sleeves to put your credit cards in and your
debit card. You know, you really should only use your
debit card if you're going to be at the bank.
They always want you to put it in the reader
(43:33):
so they can pull your account up quicker but if
you're going to use an ATM, use an ATM at
the bank, or like surely does she doesn't use ATMs,
she goes directly into the bank to take money out.
But you want to protect your accounts and you want
to protect your devices, and this is a great way
to do it, and don't forget visit our website, Roseadvocacy
(43:55):
dot org. Our social media links are all there, and yes,
our Facebook account is back, so we're going to be
posting on there just about every day with more great information.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
Scroll down to the.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Bottom of the homepage you can see the links, not
the links. You can just fill out some information to
sign up for our emailed newsletter and or our mailed newsletter.
And the emailed newsletter comes out every two well, the
mini one with the Tuesday tip comes out every Tuesday
morning at nine point fifteen, So that just recently came
(44:26):
out for this week.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
And we have an event coming up.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
April tenth of twenty twenty six, is our fourth annual
golf tournament here in Phoenix. If you're here in Phoenix
or you're going to be in town that week, check
us out. It's on the website, it's on the website,
but it's also it has a specific website. You can
(44:51):
just get in touch with us and we can send
you all that information. We're looking for sponsors, auction items, volunteers, golfers,
all types stuff. So more information on that to come
in the newsletters and social media. And Brian is going
to be with you for the next two weeks, so
look forward to chatting with Brian over the next couple weeks. Thanks,
(45:13):
and I'll see you back later this month.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Well that's all the knowledge for this episode. Tune in
every Tuesday at eight am Pacific time on KFOURHD Radio
at KFOURHD dot com as Joyce explores a variety of knowledge.
So you have the power to make scam protection your
healthy habit and until then, feel free to reach out
to Joyce and let's talk about scams.
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