October 28, 2025 • 31 mins
Did you get an email confirming your subscription renewal and the fee is being deducted from your bank account? Most people would panic.
Valorie joins us today to discuss her experience and how she almost fell victim to this scam.
Let’s Talk About Scams is broadcast live Tuesdays at 8AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Let’s Talk About Scams TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Let’s Talk About Scams Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Disclaimer: The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional / legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references; however, R.O.S.E. Resources / Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/let-s-talk-about-scams--6483699/support.
Valorie joins us today to discuss her experience and how she almost fell victim to this scam.
Let’s Talk About Scams is broadcast live Tuesdays at 8AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Let’s Talk About Scams TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Let’s Talk About Scams Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Disclaimer: The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional / legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references; however, R.O.S.E. Resources / Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/let-s-talk-about-scams--6483699/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,
professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational
purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional
legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted
sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to safeguard the
(00:45):
elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to
a scam. Let's talk about scams. It's the must listen
show for anyone who wants to protect themselves and their
loved ones from scams. Every Tuesday at am Pacific time
on K four HD Radio, Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose,
(01:05):
and her guests will provide valuable insights and practical tips
on how to recognize and protect yourself from scams. And
now here is your host, Joyce Petrowski.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Hi, everyone, welcome back.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I'm Joyce Petrowski, founder and board president of Rose Resources
Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly. You can find more information
on our website at Rosadvocacy dot org. You'll find our
social media links and if you scroll down to the
bottom of the homepage, you'll see where you can sign
up for our emailed newsletter and or our mailed newsletter.
Always good to get those reminders on a regular basis,
(01:43):
so it helps enforce your healthy skepticism and you're more
apt to make scam prevention a habit with those regular reminders.
And don't forget to click subscribe. You don't ever miss
an episode of this show. So today we are joined
(02:07):
by Valerie excuse me, and she's going to talk to
us about a tech support subscription scam that she encountered
a few years back. So let's welcome Valerie. Hello, Hey, Valerie,
how are you doing well? Thank you well, Thank you
(02:27):
for joining us today and tell us a little bit
about the scam that you encountered a few years ago.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Okay, I was going through my email, clean it out,
see what was there, and I came across one from
Norton Anti Virus. I opened it and it was a
short letter that said, thank you for renewing your subscription
for Norton Plus. We have deducted four hundred and ninety
(02:58):
nine dollars from the bank account you had on file
with us. If you have any questions about your new subscription,
please call this phone number. Well, I panicked. It was
at a time when our budget was pretty tight. I
did not remember having subscribed to Norton, and I knew
(03:21):
we could not afford four hundred and ninety nine dollars
at the moment, So I immediately called that phone number
to tell them this is a mistake. If we signed up,
please reverse it. We don't want this, and a very
kind young man on the other end, oh, I totally understand.
(03:45):
I'm sorry for the mistake. Let's see about canceling this
subscription and refunding to you the money that we took
out of your bank account. Now I should have realized
at the time they never mentioned the bank account, nor
do I remember ever giving that information in I was
(04:10):
on the phone, of course, but I had the email
open in front of me, and he said, we can
do this all online, and just so that you know
that this is legitimate, go ahead and open your checking
account to see that the four hundred and ninety nine
dollars charge is on there as having come out of
(04:34):
your checking account. And I opened my bank account, went
to checking. Sure enough, there was a thing from Norton
for four hundred and ninety nine dollars. It showed right up,
and so he said, okay, there is a way that
we can do this. I'm going to send you to
your computer a digital form that you're going to fill out,
(04:58):
and he said, we'll just round it up to five
hundred dollars and you're going to put back into your
account from our business five hundred dollars. And he said,
you're gonna do this, I don't have access to your
bank account. I want you to know that I can't
(05:20):
see it, okay, And which is of course, of course
a lie, right, But anyway, he sent the form digitally
and I started filling it out, and there was a
place to enter the five hundred dollars to go back
into my account. I typed in five zero zero, and
(05:43):
a third zero immediately showed up five thousand dollars to
go back into our account. And I said to the
young man, I did this, but it won't let me
go back and change it. It went to five thousand
and get rid of the other's zero. And he said,
(06:03):
oh no, well, this is a problem. Let me talk
to my supervisor. And so he goes off the phone
for a minute or so and comes back and says,
I'm sorry, we've got a big problem. We're going to
have to, you know, do something to make sure that
you send us back the five thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
My husband was on the other side of the room
and had been listening to this okay, And about that
time he walks over and he says, I have our
banker on the phone. She says, there is no activity
in our account and you should hang up right now.
Don't say a word to me. Hang up, And so
(06:46):
I did, and he stayed on the phone with her,
and she said, now open your checking account, and I
did and there was absolutely nothing in it. How they
made it look like money had been taken out of
my checking account, I do not know. But she said,
(07:07):
there has been no activity in your checking account in
these amounts from Norton. It was a scam.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Well, I was so upset that I had fallen for this.
I immediately texted my kids and my siblings and told
them what had happened. I said, be careful of this,
and my daughter in law said to me, also, be
careful on one of those phone calls that you never
(07:37):
answer a question yes, because they will record that yes
and use it to say that you gave them permission
to do something. I said, okay. Two days later, we're
in the car driving someplace. My phone rings and it's
not a number I know, but I answered it. There
was a young man on the other end whose voice
(07:59):
I kind of recognized. To said Hi, this is SO
and So. Do you remember me? And I said no
and hung up. I was so glad, because otherwise I
might have been tempted to say yes, I'm really upset
with you, right right, But I said no and hung up.
(08:20):
Two days later he called again, and I didn't even answer.
I just immediately hung up.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
And was that the last that you ever heard from them?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
That was the last time I heard?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Well, I'm surprised that they only tried twice because they
had you so.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Close to.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Very very close, right right.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Yeah, So you were at one of our presentations recently,
and so you got to see our Anatomy of a
Scam infographic that we did it was it's in the
resource packet and we went over it. And so you know,
we tell everybody we want you to know the red flags,
and we want you to cut it off at the contact,
(09:07):
which is the first step, right, it's they have to
contact you somehow. And a perfect example here was the
email and it doesn't sound like there was any bad
grammar in the email, and they probably had Norton or
they probably had Norton's logo in there, you know, maybe
to make it look more legit, you know, and you know,
(09:30):
that's a lot of artificial intelligence, right. You can plug
it into chat, GPT, a bunch of prompts, and it's
going to spit out an email to send to millions
of people that has the grammar's accurate, right, So you
can't look at the for bad grammar anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And so then the second.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Part we talked about was that creating that compelling reason
to get you to act, which was, oh my god,
they took four hundred ninety nine dollars out of my account.
You said, your budget was tight, we couldn't afford it.
There's a phone number right there, you just immediately call it.
But you know, you said, I panicked, right, And that's
that emotion that they want to get you in, is
the panic. And your husband was listening and he's sitting
(10:19):
there in his rational state of mind. Yes, so he's
thinking this doesn't make sense, so he immediately calls the
bank to verify, which is exactly right. What we talk
about doing is to verify before you trust. But once
they get you into that emotional state, all you're doing,
(10:39):
like in your instance, you were panicking and you just
wanted to do follow the steps that he was giving
you because you wanted to get that four hundred and
ninety nine dollars out of your account. You wanted that
money back, and he showed you how it was in
your account. And I don't know technic how they're able
(11:01):
to do it. I just know they're extremely smart and
savvy and they have a lot of technology available to.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Them to make it appear like he did to you, right, And.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
That was what amazed me. You know, of course he
was saying, I want you to do this so that
you know that I'm not getting into your checking account.
And I realized later a big mistake I made at
the beginning was it said on there we have deducted
this amount from the account you have on file with US.
(11:40):
I should have asked, first thing, which account is that,
because I don't believe he would have known until I
opened it?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
True, right, And see, these are all those things.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Right after you get out of that emotional state and
you think about it more, you're like, you see the
red flags, right, But that's the difference between when you're
in your rational state versus your emotional state. And so
you know, like a lot of people would say, you know,
they felt stupid, you know, and stuff like that, and
it's like, it doesn't have anything to do with intelligence
(12:15):
because you're not thinking clearly when you're thinking out of
emotions and that scammers know that, and so they they
do that.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
And I guarantee you you are not.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
The only one that called that phone number, right, And
there are people that would have lost five thousand dollars
because they would have went through with the whole thing.
And you had your husband not been there and you
followed through everything that he did, you know, then you'd
be thinking, Okay, you know, I'm I've got that money back.
(12:48):
But the next day or two you would have then realized,
wait a minute, five thousand came out of my account,
and there's never anything put in my account to begin
with that. Because of that that, you know, you might
not have checked your account until the next day.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
So it's it's really scary.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Well it is. And I have always considered myself a
level headed person, but I panicked pretty quickly.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
It's you know, there's they're so good they can get
you emotional right off the bat, you know. And and
and there's people that you know, I think when they
hear somebody talk about scams in their mind, their mind
immediately goes, well, that'll never happen to me. And with
that thought process, you've become, in my opinion, more vulnerable
(13:44):
to falling victim because you're already thinking you're not going
to and so you've already let your guard down.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Right, and.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
You know, uh, it happens to the best of us, right,
Thank thank goodness, your husband was there and was able
to overhear what was going on and and called the
bank to verify and found out, you know, this was
a scam and all of that. And so the you
(14:13):
probably heard of the tech support scams, how they would
originally come out where they would you'd get a pop
up on your device saying you've got a virus, and yeah,
sometimes there's a loud noise and all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
And sometimes that happened.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, you can't use your device and you've got to
call this number and this and that. And we saw
that for the longest time, and then all of a
sudden and it got to the point where so many
people were falling victim to it. A couple of years ago,
the FBI put out a public service announcement on this
specific refund scam where they changed their technique and it
(14:51):
all still revolved around tech support or anti virus and
stuff like that, but it was the refund subscription. And
so that's how scammers evolve, right. They start out and
then they and then they change their techniques, and it's
just to keep everybody on their toes, right, because they
(15:11):
know if they change their techniques that there's going to
be some people that will fall victim until we start
hearing about it and we can warn people about it.
But that's why getting to understand scams in general, which
I think we do a really good job of with that.
Anatomy of a scam, right, is that step one is
that contact and like you did the next two days later,
(15:34):
I think you said he called, you got the phone
call and you answered. It was from a number you
didn't know, and you answered it, and you know, and
I'm surprised they only tried twice, but it's good that
they that they only tried twice and they've left you
alone after that. But that contact is recognizing it at
(15:55):
the contact and whether you've engaged with them and then
found out or you recognize it right when you receive
the contact. It's better to recognize it right when you
receive it and not engage because, as you saw through experience,
how quickly they get you panicked, how quickly they get
you excited, how quickly they get you to feel like
(16:18):
you're not lonely anymore. You have a loved one in
your life, right, the romance scam and all that well.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
And also because I called the number, then they had
my cell phone number.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Right, yeah, right, And and again I'm surprised that it
was just that it was just twice that they called
you back, but that's that's great. And you also mentioned
about when you talk to your family members about it,
which is another thing we want people to do, is
you tell people about it, right, because if they haven't
(16:54):
been contacted, yet they will and if they don't know,
they don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
You don't know what you don't know?
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Right, It's and that way, the more information we can
share and the more information that we can get out
there and share with other people helps keep them safe too.
But you mentioned your daughter in law had mentioned about
not to say yes on the phone as well, and
I've heard other people talk about that. But I've also
(17:21):
had some people say that that's not really a scam,
that that doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
And it's like, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
I have I seen on the FBI reports right the
you know, don't say yes, And do they specifically state
that type of scam. No, they might put it under
another type of scam, but it's something that could be
very straightforward and very easy for.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Them to do.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
And you might not ever know, you know, you might
like you said, all of a sudden, have the subscription
or the purchase, but then you just you might think
somebody got your credit card and that's how they were
able to purchase stuff. But I would bet that it's happened.
I mean, if I was a betting person and I
(18:14):
was putting money on, I'd be like, yeah, I'm sure
it's happened to people, whether they know about it, realized
that it had happened or not. It just seems, you know,
like it would be a very simple thing for them
to do so. But again, you know, people have different
opinions on different things, so it's always good, right too,
(18:36):
for people to know that. So you know, when you
get that phone call and you answer and they say
is this Valerie and you're like or you know, you
say speaking or something like that, Like you said, he said,
do you remember being You're like, no, even though you
did recognize his voice.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Oh, yes, but yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Just quickly, it doesn't have to be quickly. Did you
learn some stuff in our presentation?
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Oh, quite a lot. We thought it was very helpful.
And you know, we hear a lot of advertisements for
things like LifeLock and protector things and had not ever responded.
But after hearing your presentation, we did what you recommended
(19:29):
and googled the top five companies that protect you online,
and we now have a subscription for one of those.
Oh okay, However, there was one little issue as.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Offering online protection.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Pardon me, Google thinks I'm talking to anyway, partly due
to my low vision, issues. Sometimes I don't see the
details of things. But it turns out that the program
that we purchased works on three of our devices, but
(20:11):
not on two of them because the other two are
have ISP providers that are not supported by that particular.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Oh okay, okay.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
So I have not yet called them and asked. I mean,
I signed up for five devices. I thought I would
call and ask for maybe a refund to go down
to three, but I would I would recommend to people
if you're looking at those, look to see which companies
they support.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Oh okay, for the is SP, yes and all of that.
That's that's good information, right, And but the good thing
about it is you can call them and say, hey,
can I can I go down to the package of
three because it doesn't work on my other two devices.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
There shouldn't be any reason why they wouldn't do that.
But that's good. I'm glad you.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
So.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Was that like a credit monitoring company or was it
more of like a company to get your information off
the internet.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
It was more one of those that protects your information
on your internet. Okay, we do all we do all
of our banking on the internet. Okay, hey, all of
our bills on the internet, and that I believe is
what they are protecting.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Okay, all right, well that's good, that's good.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I'm glad you guys were able to get some useful
information from the presentation. You know, that's our Our goal
is to make everybody more educated and aware. So when
you are contacted, you know how to recognize the flags,
and you know what to do, right.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
You know what to do to try not to get
into an emotional state. Right.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
And so you have your husband right that you just
pause and go, Cam got to go talk to him,
right if he gets something and he's like, okay, well
let me go talk to my wife, right, And you know,
maybe your daughter in law or some of your other
family members will be like, oh well wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Valerie had something happen. Let me call and talk to her.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Right. So it's it's good to share information, and it's
also good to be someone's trusted person, right. Especially there's
I think there's a lot of seniors that live alone
and are kind of isolated, and they might not have
family members, and so that's where it's really good that
(22:36):
they have neighbors that you know, friends and neighbors that
can check in on them. And make sure they're okay
and talk to them about these things so they so
they don't fall victim, because as you saw, their scammers
are ruthless.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
They are they are, and a.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Lot of people have often said, man, if they would
only use all of this energy to do good, it's like, how,
you know, great would this world be.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
But yeah, you know, it's unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Some of the scammers are forced labor, you know, so
they've been kidnapped in and.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
They're forced to do this stuff.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Others are doing it because they want the money and
they don't care who they're gonna hurt.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
So, you know, it's uh and.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Unfortunately that you don't you don't usually know which one
it is you know that you're talking to. But I'm
so glad that that you guys were able to figure
it out before that transaction went through. Did you have
somebody look at your computer and stuff and make sure
that there isn't any anything in the background going on
(23:44):
that you weren't aware of.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
No, I'm sorry we didn't even think to do that.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I would do that.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
I know.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
It's been a few years, and I would think that
you would have noticed some stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
You would have.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
You know, you you have seen more or you would
have noticed your device is not working properly. But it
might be worth it might be worth having a tech
support person just and they can remote in to your
devices and that they can look around and they can
make sure that there's not something hiding in the background
that you're not aware of, that's infecting your device, that's
(24:21):
watching what you do. I mean, there's just so much
stuff out there. I think it's good to do that,
and it's also good to Yeah, it's also good to
have that trusted tech support person in your back pocket
per se. So when you do have an issue with something,
you're not going to panic.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
You know exactly who you want to call.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah, and if you need if you don't have anybody,
if your friends or family can't refer you to somebody
that they trust, just shoot me an email. And I
have a few people that I can give you their information.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Thank you. I would like that we have recently moved.
We're in a new area completely, and so the people
I had people where we previously lived, but not here.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Okay, all right, then I'll give you a couple of
people's information and you can give them a call. But
I think that would be good. You know, like I said,
I think you would have seen something. You would have
noticed your device is acting weird. But it's just always good,
especially when you've had right. You don't know how that
guy was able to show make it look like it
(25:27):
was your bank accounts, So you just want to, especially
with whatever device that was that you were on, make
sure that one okay.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
And actually that device kind of did a meltdown and
we got rid of it, so maybe that was why.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Okay, that very well could have been.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
You know, that very well could have been, and so
maybe that's why you haven't seen anything.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
But now I would like to ask you though, with
these companies, the company that we got that you knows
what's going on on our devices, would they not be
able to find something like that?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
So if you don't mind me asking who is the company.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
I went with Aura? It was at the top of
a couple of lists. Do you know that A A
you are A A you are a.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Oh it's identity protection? Yes, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I would call them first and find out because they
I'm looking online. I'm not familiar with that company. It
says Removal of your data, identity theft protection, Home title Monitoring, right,
So they probably have something that can is monitoring your device,
(27:03):
maybe some antivirus or anti malware software that is. I
would just call them and ask them that question because
they might already You're right, they might already be doing that. Yeah,
they they could be, because I know we personally use
Norton LifeLock and Norton used to be the anti virus
(27:23):
and LifeLock was the credit monitoring company and they merged together,
and so we have that antivirus through them, but also
the credit monitoring through them as well. So or could
be the same type of company that has that does
multiple different things.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
And I believe it does because we were looking for
the identity protection. Also wanted the the the mortgage the house.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Oh yeah, and it said they monitor the house title
as well.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Yeah, so but I will ask them. I do need
to call them to see if they'll refund part of
my things.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, yeah, I definitely ask them that. So, unless there's
anything else, I think that brings us to a close.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Okay, thank you so much. Your presentation was so helpful.
It gave us the kick we needed to do some
things for our protection, and I appreciate you letting me
tell my story I do hope it helps to protect
someone else.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
And I so appreciate you being willing to tell your story.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I know it's.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
It can be difficult at times to tell these types
of stories, so I really appreciate you being vulnerable to
share it with everyone. You're very welcome, all right, thanks, Valerie,
You're welcome, all right, bybe so, Valerie, she went through
(28:57):
a lot a couple of years ago, a lot of
getting getting that email and thinking that there was four
hundred and ninety nine dollars coming out of her bank account.
And that's exactly how scammers are very savvy with what
they do and getting you into a in this instance,
(29:17):
a panic mode very quickly.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
So just remember to pause and.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Talk to your trusted person so you can verify what's
going on. Before and verifying what's going on, you know,
don't call the phone numbers, don't respond to the contact,
don't click on a link in the contact to go
to a website or anything. Go do the verification on
your own, you know, find the verified website, find the
verified phone number for whatever company it is, and call
(29:46):
them directly and see what's going on, just like Valerie's
husband did after he heard what was going on. He
called the bank directly and was able to talk to
them and found out there was no actiity going on
in the account, and so they shut it down. And
don't forget. You can find all our social media on
(30:08):
our website at Rosadvocacy dot org. Scroll down to the
bottom of the homepage you'll find our email and mailed
newsletter sign ups. It's always good to get these reminders.
With the email, you get a Tuesday tip that comes
out every Tuesday at nine fifteen am. You might look
at it and go, Okay, I already know that, and
that's great that you already know that tip.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
But what it.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Does is it reminds you about scam prevention and it
helps make it become a habit. When you have scam
prevention as a habit and a healthy skepticism when you
are contacted, you will be more likely to think about
scam prevention and have that healthy skepticism and do what
(30:49):
you need to do to verify things before you call
the you know, call the place, or engage with what
whatever the contact was to protect yourself. So anyways, and
click subscribe. You don't want to miss one of these episodes.
(31:09):
And we are getting really close to Halloween. I hope
everybody has a great Halloween and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Well, that's all the knowledge for this episode. Tune in
every Tuesday at eight am Pacific time on KFOURHD Radio
at KFOURHD dot com as Joyce explores a variety of knowledge.
So you have the power to make scam protection your
healthy habit, and until then, feel free to reach out
to Joyce and let's talk about scams.
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,
professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational
purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional
legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted
sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to safeguard the
(00:45):
elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to
a scam. Let's talk about scams. It's the must listen
show for anyone who wants to protect themselves and their
loved ones from scams. Every Tuesday at am Pacific time
on K four HD Radio, Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose,
(01:05):
and her guests will provide valuable insights and practical tips
on how to recognize and protect yourself from scams. And
now here is your host, Joyce Petrowski.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Hi, everyone, welcome back.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I'm Joyce Petrowski, founder and board president of Rose Resources
Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly. You can find more information
on our website at Rosadvocacy dot org. You'll find our
social media links and if you scroll down to the
bottom of the homepage, you'll see where you can sign
up for our emailed newsletter and or our mailed newsletter.
Always good to get those reminders on a regular basis,
(01:43):
so it helps enforce your healthy skepticism and you're more
apt to make scam prevention a habit with those regular reminders.
And don't forget to click subscribe. You don't ever miss
an episode of this show. So today we are joined
(02:07):
by Valerie excuse me, and she's going to talk to
us about a tech support subscription scam that she encountered
a few years back. So let's welcome Valerie. Hello, Hey, Valerie,
how are you doing well? Thank you well, Thank you
(02:27):
for joining us today and tell us a little bit
about the scam that you encountered a few years ago.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Okay, I was going through my email, clean it out,
see what was there, and I came across one from
Norton Anti Virus. I opened it and it was a
short letter that said, thank you for renewing your subscription
for Norton Plus. We have deducted four hundred and ninety
(02:58):
nine dollars from the bank account you had on file
with us. If you have any questions about your new subscription,
please call this phone number. Well, I panicked. It was
at a time when our budget was pretty tight. I
did not remember having subscribed to Norton, and I knew
(03:21):
we could not afford four hundred and ninety nine dollars
at the moment, So I immediately called that phone number
to tell them this is a mistake. If we signed up,
please reverse it. We don't want this, and a very
kind young man on the other end, oh, I totally understand.
(03:45):
I'm sorry for the mistake. Let's see about canceling this
subscription and refunding to you the money that we took
out of your bank account. Now I should have realized
at the time they never mentioned the bank account, nor
do I remember ever giving that information in I was
(04:10):
on the phone, of course, but I had the email
open in front of me, and he said, we can
do this all online, and just so that you know
that this is legitimate, go ahead and open your checking
account to see that the four hundred and ninety nine
dollars charge is on there as having come out of
(04:34):
your checking account. And I opened my bank account, went
to checking. Sure enough, there was a thing from Norton
for four hundred and ninety nine dollars. It showed right up,
and so he said, okay, there is a way that
we can do this. I'm going to send you to
your computer a digital form that you're going to fill out,
(04:58):
and he said, we'll just round it up to five
hundred dollars and you're going to put back into your
account from our business five hundred dollars. And he said,
you're gonna do this, I don't have access to your
bank account. I want you to know that I can't
(05:20):
see it, okay, And which is of course, of course
a lie, right, But anyway, he sent the form digitally
and I started filling it out, and there was a
place to enter the five hundred dollars to go back
into my account. I typed in five zero zero, and
(05:43):
a third zero immediately showed up five thousand dollars to
go back into our account. And I said to the
young man, I did this, but it won't let me
go back and change it. It went to five thousand
and get rid of the other's zero. And he said,
(06:03):
oh no, well, this is a problem. Let me talk
to my supervisor. And so he goes off the phone
for a minute or so and comes back and says,
I'm sorry, we've got a big problem. We're going to
have to, you know, do something to make sure that
you send us back the five thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
My husband was on the other side of the room
and had been listening to this okay, And about that
time he walks over and he says, I have our
banker on the phone. She says, there is no activity
in our account and you should hang up right now.
Don't say a word to me. Hang up, And so
(06:46):
I did, and he stayed on the phone with her,
and she said, now open your checking account, and I
did and there was absolutely nothing in it. How they
made it look like money had been taken out of
my checking account, I do not know. But she said,
(07:07):
there has been no activity in your checking account in
these amounts from Norton. It was a scam.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Well, I was so upset that I had fallen for this.
I immediately texted my kids and my siblings and told
them what had happened. I said, be careful of this,
and my daughter in law said to me, also, be
careful on one of those phone calls that you never
(07:37):
answer a question yes, because they will record that yes
and use it to say that you gave them permission
to do something. I said, okay. Two days later, we're
in the car driving someplace. My phone rings and it's
not a number I know, but I answered it. There
was a young man on the other end whose voice
(07:59):
I kind of recognized. To said Hi, this is SO
and So. Do you remember me? And I said no
and hung up. I was so glad, because otherwise I
might have been tempted to say yes, I'm really upset
with you, right right, But I said no and hung up.
(08:20):
Two days later he called again, and I didn't even answer.
I just immediately hung up.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
And was that the last that you ever heard from them?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
That was the last time I heard?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Well, I'm surprised that they only tried twice because they
had you so.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Close to.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Very very close, right right.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Yeah, So you were at one of our presentations recently,
and so you got to see our Anatomy of a
Scam infographic that we did it was it's in the
resource packet and we went over it. And so you know,
we tell everybody we want you to know the red flags,
and we want you to cut it off at the contact,
(09:07):
which is the first step, right, it's they have to
contact you somehow. And a perfect example here was the
email and it doesn't sound like there was any bad
grammar in the email, and they probably had Norton or
they probably had Norton's logo in there, you know, maybe
to make it look more legit, you know, and you know,
(09:30):
that's a lot of artificial intelligence, right. You can plug
it into chat, GPT, a bunch of prompts, and it's
going to spit out an email to send to millions
of people that has the grammar's accurate, right, So you
can't look at the for bad grammar anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And so then the second.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Part we talked about was that creating that compelling reason
to get you to act, which was, oh my god,
they took four hundred ninety nine dollars out of my account.
You said, your budget was tight, we couldn't afford it.
There's a phone number right there, you just immediately call it.
But you know, you said, I panicked, right, And that's
that emotion that they want to get you in, is
the panic. And your husband was listening and he's sitting
(10:19):
there in his rational state of mind. Yes, so he's
thinking this doesn't make sense, so he immediately calls the
bank to verify, which is exactly right. What we talk
about doing is to verify before you trust. But once
they get you into that emotional state, all you're doing,
(10:39):
like in your instance, you were panicking and you just
wanted to do follow the steps that he was giving
you because you wanted to get that four hundred and
ninety nine dollars out of your account. You wanted that
money back, and he showed you how it was in
your account. And I don't know technic how they're able
(11:01):
to do it. I just know they're extremely smart and
savvy and they have a lot of technology available to.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Them to make it appear like he did to you, right, And.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
That was what amazed me. You know, of course he
was saying, I want you to do this so that
you know that I'm not getting into your checking account.
And I realized later a big mistake I made at
the beginning was it said on there we have deducted
this amount from the account you have on file with US.
(11:40):
I should have asked, first thing, which account is that,
because I don't believe he would have known until I
opened it?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
True, right, And see, these are all those things.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Right after you get out of that emotional state and
you think about it more, you're like, you see the
red flags, right, But that's the difference between when you're
in your rational state versus your emotional state. And so
you know, like a lot of people would say, you know,
they felt stupid, you know, and stuff like that, and
it's like, it doesn't have anything to do with intelligence
(12:15):
because you're not thinking clearly when you're thinking out of
emotions and that scammers know that, and so they they
do that.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
And I guarantee you you are not.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
The only one that called that phone number, right, And
there are people that would have lost five thousand dollars
because they would have went through with the whole thing.
And you had your husband not been there and you
followed through everything that he did, you know, then you'd
be thinking, Okay, you know, I'm I've got that money back.
(12:48):
But the next day or two you would have then realized,
wait a minute, five thousand came out of my account,
and there's never anything put in my account to begin
with that. Because of that that, you know, you might
not have checked your account until the next day.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
So it's it's really scary.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Well it is. And I have always considered myself a
level headed person, but I panicked pretty quickly.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
It's you know, there's they're so good they can get
you emotional right off the bat, you know. And and
and there's people that you know, I think when they
hear somebody talk about scams in their mind, their mind
immediately goes, well, that'll never happen to me. And with
that thought process, you've become, in my opinion, more vulnerable
(13:44):
to falling victim because you're already thinking you're not going
to and so you've already let your guard down.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Right, and.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
You know, uh, it happens to the best of us, right,
Thank thank goodness, your husband was there and was able
to overhear what was going on and and called the
bank to verify and found out, you know, this was
a scam and all of that. And so the you
(14:13):
probably heard of the tech support scams, how they would
originally come out where they would you'd get a pop
up on your device saying you've got a virus, and yeah,
sometimes there's a loud noise and all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
And sometimes that happened.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, you can't use your device and you've got to
call this number and this and that. And we saw
that for the longest time, and then all of a
sudden and it got to the point where so many
people were falling victim to it. A couple of years ago,
the FBI put out a public service announcement on this
specific refund scam where they changed their technique and it
(14:51):
all still revolved around tech support or anti virus and
stuff like that, but it was the refund subscription. And
so that's how scammers evolve, right. They start out and
then they and then they change their techniques, and it's
just to keep everybody on their toes, right, because they
(15:11):
know if they change their techniques that there's going to
be some people that will fall victim until we start
hearing about it and we can warn people about it.
But that's why getting to understand scams in general, which
I think we do a really good job of with that.
Anatomy of a scam, right, is that step one is
that contact and like you did the next two days later,
(15:34):
I think you said he called, you got the phone
call and you answered. It was from a number you
didn't know, and you answered it, and you know, and
I'm surprised they only tried twice, but it's good that
they that they only tried twice and they've left you
alone after that. But that contact is recognizing it at
(15:55):
the contact and whether you've engaged with them and then
found out or you recognize it right when you receive
the contact. It's better to recognize it right when you
receive it and not engage because, as you saw through experience,
how quickly they get you panicked, how quickly they get
you excited, how quickly they get you to feel like
(16:18):
you're not lonely anymore. You have a loved one in
your life, right, the romance scam and all that well.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
And also because I called the number, then they had
my cell phone number.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Right, yeah, right, And and again I'm surprised that it
was just that it was just twice that they called
you back, but that's that's great. And you also mentioned
about when you talk to your family members about it,
which is another thing we want people to do, is
you tell people about it, right, because if they haven't
(16:54):
been contacted, yet they will and if they don't know,
they don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
You don't know what you don't know?
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Right, It's and that way, the more information we can
share and the more information that we can get out
there and share with other people helps keep them safe too.
But you mentioned your daughter in law had mentioned about
not to say yes on the phone as well, and
I've heard other people talk about that. But I've also
(17:21):
had some people say that that's not really a scam,
that that doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
And it's like, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
I have I seen on the FBI reports right the
you know, don't say yes, And do they specifically state
that type of scam. No, they might put it under
another type of scam, but it's something that could be
very straightforward and very easy for.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Them to do.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
And you might not ever know, you know, you might
like you said, all of a sudden, have the subscription
or the purchase, but then you just you might think
somebody got your credit card and that's how they were
able to purchase stuff. But I would bet that it's happened.
I mean, if I was a betting person and I
(18:14):
was putting money on, I'd be like, yeah, I'm sure
it's happened to people, whether they know about it, realized
that it had happened or not. It just seems, you know,
like it would be a very simple thing for them
to do so. But again, you know, people have different
opinions on different things, so it's always good, right too,
(18:36):
for people to know that. So you know, when you
get that phone call and you answer and they say
is this Valerie and you're like or you know, you
say speaking or something like that, Like you said, he said,
do you remember being You're like, no, even though you
did recognize his voice.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Oh, yes, but yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Just quickly, it doesn't have to be quickly. Did you
learn some stuff in our presentation?
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Oh, quite a lot. We thought it was very helpful.
And you know, we hear a lot of advertisements for
things like LifeLock and protector things and had not ever responded.
But after hearing your presentation, we did what you recommended
(19:29):
and googled the top five companies that protect you online,
and we now have a subscription for one of those.
Oh okay, However, there was one little issue as.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Offering online protection.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Pardon me, Google thinks I'm talking to anyway, partly due
to my low vision, issues. Sometimes I don't see the
details of things. But it turns out that the program
that we purchased works on three of our devices, but
(20:11):
not on two of them because the other two are
have ISP providers that are not supported by that particular.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Oh okay, okay.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
So I have not yet called them and asked. I mean,
I signed up for five devices. I thought I would
call and ask for maybe a refund to go down
to three, but I would I would recommend to people
if you're looking at those, look to see which companies
they support.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Oh okay, for the is SP, yes and all of that.
That's that's good information, right, And but the good thing
about it is you can call them and say, hey,
can I can I go down to the package of
three because it doesn't work on my other two devices.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
There shouldn't be any reason why they wouldn't do that.
But that's good. I'm glad you.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
So.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Was that like a credit monitoring company or was it
more of like a company to get your information off
the internet.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
It was more one of those that protects your information
on your internet. Okay, we do all we do all
of our banking on the internet. Okay, hey, all of
our bills on the internet, and that I believe is
what they are protecting.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Okay, all right, well that's good, that's good.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I'm glad you guys were able to get some useful
information from the presentation. You know, that's our Our goal
is to make everybody more educated and aware. So when
you are contacted, you know how to recognize the flags,
and you know what to do, right.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
You know what to do to try not to get
into an emotional state. Right.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
And so you have your husband right that you just
pause and go, Cam got to go talk to him,
right if he gets something and he's like, okay, well
let me go talk to my wife, right, And you know,
maybe your daughter in law or some of your other
family members will be like, oh well wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Valerie had something happen. Let me call and talk to her.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Right. So it's it's good to share information, and it's
also good to be someone's trusted person, right. Especially there's
I think there's a lot of seniors that live alone
and are kind of isolated, and they might not have
family members, and so that's where it's really good that
(22:36):
they have neighbors that you know, friends and neighbors that
can check in on them. And make sure they're okay
and talk to them about these things so they so
they don't fall victim, because as you saw, their scammers
are ruthless.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
They are they are, and a.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Lot of people have often said, man, if they would
only use all of this energy to do good, it's like, how,
you know, great would this world be.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
But yeah, you know, it's unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Some of the scammers are forced labor, you know, so
they've been kidnapped in and.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
They're forced to do this stuff.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Others are doing it because they want the money and
they don't care who they're gonna hurt.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
So, you know, it's uh and.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Unfortunately that you don't you don't usually know which one
it is you know that you're talking to. But I'm
so glad that that you guys were able to figure
it out before that transaction went through. Did you have
somebody look at your computer and stuff and make sure
that there isn't any anything in the background going on
(23:44):
that you weren't aware of.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
No, I'm sorry we didn't even think to do that.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I would do that.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
I know.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
It's been a few years, and I would think that
you would have noticed some stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
You would have.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
You know, you you have seen more or you would
have noticed your device is not working properly. But it
might be worth it might be worth having a tech
support person just and they can remote in to your
devices and that they can look around and they can
make sure that there's not something hiding in the background
that you're not aware of, that's infecting your device, that's
(24:21):
watching what you do. I mean, there's just so much
stuff out there. I think it's good to do that,
and it's also good to Yeah, it's also good to
have that trusted tech support person in your back pocket
per se. So when you do have an issue with something,
you're not going to panic.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
You know exactly who you want to call.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah, and if you need if you don't have anybody,
if your friends or family can't refer you to somebody
that they trust, just shoot me an email. And I
have a few people that I can give you their information.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Thank you. I would like that we have recently moved.
We're in a new area completely, and so the people
I had people where we previously lived, but not here.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Okay, all right, then I'll give you a couple of
people's information and you can give them a call. But
I think that would be good. You know, like I said,
I think you would have seen something. You would have
noticed your device is acting weird. But it's just always good,
especially when you've had right. You don't know how that
guy was able to show make it look like it
(25:27):
was your bank accounts, So you just want to, especially
with whatever device that was that you were on, make
sure that one okay.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
And actually that device kind of did a meltdown and
we got rid of it, so maybe that was why.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Okay, that very well could have been.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
You know, that very well could have been, and so
maybe that's why you haven't seen anything.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
But now I would like to ask you though, with
these companies, the company that we got that you knows
what's going on on our devices, would they not be
able to find something like that?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
So if you don't mind me asking who is the company.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
I went with Aura? It was at the top of
a couple of lists. Do you know that A A
you are A A you are a.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Oh it's identity protection? Yes, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I would call them first and find out because they
I'm looking online. I'm not familiar with that company. It
says Removal of your data, identity theft protection, Home title Monitoring, right,
So they probably have something that can is monitoring your device,
(27:03):
maybe some antivirus or anti malware software that is. I
would just call them and ask them that question because
they might already You're right, they might already be doing that. Yeah,
they they could be, because I know we personally use
Norton LifeLock and Norton used to be the anti virus
(27:23):
and LifeLock was the credit monitoring company and they merged together,
and so we have that antivirus through them, but also
the credit monitoring through them as well. So or could
be the same type of company that has that does
multiple different things.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
And I believe it does because we were looking for
the identity protection. Also wanted the the the mortgage the house.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Oh yeah, and it said they monitor the house title
as well.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Yeah, so but I will ask them. I do need
to call them to see if they'll refund part of
my things.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, yeah, I definitely ask them that. So, unless there's
anything else, I think that brings us to a close.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Okay, thank you so much. Your presentation was so helpful.
It gave us the kick we needed to do some
things for our protection, and I appreciate you letting me
tell my story I do hope it helps to protect
someone else.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
And I so appreciate you being willing to tell your story.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I know it's.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
It can be difficult at times to tell these types
of stories, so I really appreciate you being vulnerable to
share it with everyone. You're very welcome, all right, thanks, Valerie,
You're welcome, all right, bybe so, Valerie, she went through
(28:57):
a lot a couple of years ago, a lot of
getting getting that email and thinking that there was four
hundred and ninety nine dollars coming out of her bank account.
And that's exactly how scammers are very savvy with what
they do and getting you into a in this instance,
(29:17):
a panic mode very quickly.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
So just remember to pause and.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Talk to your trusted person so you can verify what's
going on. Before and verifying what's going on, you know,
don't call the phone numbers, don't respond to the contact,
don't click on a link in the contact to go
to a website or anything. Go do the verification on
your own, you know, find the verified website, find the
verified phone number for whatever company it is, and call
(29:46):
them directly and see what's going on, just like Valerie's
husband did after he heard what was going on. He
called the bank directly and was able to talk to
them and found out there was no actiity going on
in the account, and so they shut it down. And
don't forget. You can find all our social media on
(30:08):
our website at Rosadvocacy dot org. Scroll down to the
bottom of the homepage you'll find our email and mailed
newsletter sign ups. It's always good to get these reminders.
With the email, you get a Tuesday tip that comes
out every Tuesday at nine fifteen am. You might look
at it and go, Okay, I already know that, and
that's great that you already know that tip.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
But what it.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Does is it reminds you about scam prevention and it
helps make it become a habit. When you have scam
prevention as a habit and a healthy skepticism when you
are contacted, you will be more likely to think about
scam prevention and have that healthy skepticism and do what
(30:49):
you need to do to verify things before you call
the you know, call the place, or engage with what
whatever the contact was to protect yourself. So anyways, and
click subscribe. You don't want to miss one of these episodes.
(31:09):
And we are getting really close to Halloween. I hope
everybody has a great Halloween and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Well, that's all the knowledge for this episode. Tune in
every Tuesday at eight am Pacific time on KFOURHD Radio
at KFOURHD dot com as Joyce explores a variety of knowledge.
So you have the power to make scam protection your
healthy habit, and until then, feel free to reach out
to Joyce and let's talk about scams.
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