June 10, 2025 • 21 mins
Pig Butchering Romance Scams
Let’s Talk About Scams is broadcast live Tuesdays at 8AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Let’s Talk About Scams TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Let’s Talk About Scams Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Disclaimer: The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional / legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references; however, R.O.S.E. Resources / Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/let-s-talk-about-scams--6483699/support.
Let’s Talk About Scams is broadcast live Tuesdays at 8AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Let’s Talk About Scams TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Let’s Talk About Scams Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Disclaimer: The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional / legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references; however, R.O.S.E. Resources / Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/let-s-talk-about-scams--6483699/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,
professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services
(00:23):
of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational
purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional
legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted
sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to safeguard the
(00:45):
elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to
a scam. Let's talk about scams. It's the must listen
show for anyone who wants to protect themselves and their
loved ones from scams. Every Tuesday at am Pacific time
on K four HD Radio, Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose,
(01:06):
and her guests will provide valuable insights and practical tips
on how to recognize and protect yourself from scams. And
now here is your host, Joyce Petrowski.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Good Morning, everybody, welcome to Let's talk about scams. My
name is Brian Watson, filling in for Joyce Petrowski for
the next two weeks. I am a community outreach specialist
for ROSE. We are an Arizona nonprofit. ROSE is an
acronym resources outreach to safeguard the elderly and we are
(01:41):
passionate about people not falling for scams. We want to
prevent people from falling into scams in the first place.
So today's title is a little different. Hopefully it'll catch
your attention. It is what in the world is pig butchering?
And you're probably thinking, what is this guy talking about? Well,
I will explain and by the time we finish today,
(02:05):
you everyone listening and watching today will be a little
bit of an expert at pig butchering. And then we
want you to share this information with people that you
love and care about. So first of all, we need
to start and start with romance scams. It's a very
common scam that we see here at ROSE. You know,
we do a lot of presentations out in the community
(02:29):
and we hear these horror stories. So what is a
romance scam? Well, first of all, it has nothing to
do with romance. It's all about fooling people and praying
on their desire to feel loved and wanted by someone else.
So how do romance scams first? First start, usually they're
online and you know someone, and a lot of times
(02:54):
the scammers will target someone who's a widow or a widower,
or someone who you know recently got out of a
long term relationship, and their friends will say, hey, you know,
why don't you go online and make some friends on
Facebook or another social media site, or maybe even go
to a Christian dating site or or you know, play
(03:17):
words with friends. Well, let me tell you, the scammers
are out there like sharks, just patrolling these sites, and
they will start a conversation very innocuously. They'll message you
and say, hey, how are you doing, good morning? Where
are you and they'll say or they'll say, hey, you're
really handsome or you're really pretty, do you have grandkids?
(03:42):
You know what? What are your hobbies? And then it
just starts this little innocent conversation online like on Facebook Messenger,
and then soon it becomes a daily thing, and then
soon people will the scammers will will move away from
the social media site and go to something like What's
(04:03):
app or telegram, and then you never get to meet
them because this scammer is overseas. That's how these romance
scams work. And you know, maybe they're in the military,
or they're a missionary, or they're visiting family and friends overseas,
or they volunteer, and you know, because of where they
(04:25):
are is so remote, they can't make phone calls. Everything
is just like texting or online messaging. And let me
tell you, these people are the perfect boyfriend or girlfriend
because that's where they want to go. They eventually this
online quote relationship starts getting moves really fast, and before
(04:47):
you know it, people are online saying, Oh, I'm gonna
check in with my boyfriend right now, or I'm gonna
check in with my girlfriend, and they say the nicest
things and they'll shower you with affection. They may even
send you flowers or write a poem for you, and
this escalates really quick, and then eventually they want money
(05:08):
because that's what scammers do. And they will say, I
want to come visit you since we're gonna get married someday,
and then they'll ask for money and they'll say, you
know what, my credit card has been stolen or the
government here locked up my funds. Can you send me
some money so I can come visit you. So you
send them money for a plane ticket, and then when
(05:31):
they're on the way to the airport, they get in
a car accident and they're in the hospital and they
need more money. And you can see where this is going.
So that's a romance scam. And I've met people that
have lost money in romance scams. But there's only so
much money you could send someone for a plane ticket
or a hospital bill. The scammers are taken it to
(05:52):
the next level. And that's why today we're talking about
pig butchering. Yes, that is a crazy term, and I'll
explain what it is. Basically, pig butchering think of it
is a variation of the romance scam. So this variation
that we're going to talk about today, pig butchering, actually
(06:13):
started in China, and the scammers there would refer to
their victims as pigs and use a Chinese word shazu pan,
which means killing pigs plate. So in the same way
that a farmer would fatten up a pig for slaughter,
the scammers think of it the same way. They're not
(06:34):
going to kill you physically, but they want to kill
you financially, so they'll fatten you up by having you
invest money in cryptocurrency. So you're ever asked by anyone
you don't know to invest in cryptocurrency, you are the
target of a pig butchering scheme. So the same way
(06:55):
they would contact you in a romance scam social media
words with friends dating side, they do the same thing.
They build that online relationship, and you know, they prey
on people of all ages and all levels of financial sophistication,
but they often target people who've gone through a divorce
or a death of a loved one. So what they
(07:18):
do is established trust, and that's the key. They start
real slow. It's a long play scam, meaning they're not
going to ask you to invest in cryptocurrency in the
first week. They may wait a month or two. And
what they do is they'll just innocuously introduce it when
you ask hey, you know, like maybe maybe the scammer
(07:42):
will show pictures of them traveling on the weekends or
you know, going to Paris or going to London or
going something like that, and then the victim will say,
how can you afford to do all this? And the
scammer will say, well, I've done a little bit of
cryptocurrency investing. And when I say crypto, a lot of
people think bitcoin because bitcoin is sixty percent market share,
(08:03):
but there's thousands of cryptocurrencies. And then they'll say, well,
if you want to invest a little bit, you know,
let's start small and see if it works for you.
It's done very well for me. So the scammer will
ask their victim invite them, after they've gained this trust,
to invest a little bit of money in one of
(08:24):
the cryptocurrencies. And then they'll actually set up a little
platform on your screen that you can log into and
it actually will show that you're making money, but it's fake.
It's all part of the scheme. And then, you know,
we all want to make money when it comes to
stocks and things like that or investments. The victim gets
(08:45):
excited because they look on their portal and they see
that they're making money. And then here's one of the
keys that the scammers will do with pig butchering schemes.
They will refund all your money just to show that
it's liquid, and once again, it's part of the big scheme.
They want everything. So then you see that it's liquid.
(09:06):
You see that you're making money, and then they say,
all right, you ready to try it again? And then
they go for it. All okay. So pig butchering is
so different from the other romance scams because they're looking
to take every penny you have. And I have some
stories to tell. And the last time I was on
(09:26):
this show, I talked about our Anatomy of a scam
that we talk about at ROWS three parts. Contact out
of the blue, whatever way, social media, texting, email, a
compelling reason to act. Your money's frozen, your child, your
grandchild's in jail, or you've won a prize, something like that.
(09:48):
And then they always ask for money one way or another.
And then in the middle of our Anatomy of a
Scam infographic, we have urgency. This particular scam does not
fit the pattern of our Anatomy of a scam. There
is no urgency. It's a long play scam because they're
going in for the big take that they want to
(10:12):
get all the money. So it's a lot of time
and effort, but the payoff is worth it for the scammers.
About three or four years ago, when I was still
with the federal government, I was asked to talk to
a lady who had lost a bunch of money in
an investment scheme, and I didn't know all the background.
(10:33):
I did a radio show in northern Arizona and someone
heard me and said reached out to the radio station
and said, would you talk to my friend? She just
lost a bunch of money. So I called this lady up.
Super sweet lady found out she had lost seven hundred
thousand dollars. She had lost her husband, he died. She
(10:58):
ended up going online and a friend's she met this
guy who said all the right things. He sounded like
the perfect guy. He introduced the idea of investing in
cryptocurrency so that her grandchildren would be taken care of,
and she believed it, and she actually sold her house
to invest more. The scammer had convinced her to drive
(11:22):
down to a local store and she was feeding cash
into a bitcoin ATM using a QR code that the
scammer her boyfriend, fake boyfriend, had provided her. And when
he finally realized she had invested about seven hundred thousand
all of her money, he ghosted her, meaning he just
left her. And let me tell you, this lady is
(11:45):
super smart. That's not what I expected. And basically this
was a pig butchering scheme before I had even heard
the term. You know, I did a presentation last year
in southern Arizona and a lady came up to me
in tears and she said, you know, I fell in
(12:05):
love with a guy named Peter online and I thought
we were going to get married. And he was living
in Europe, or and he was the sweetest guy, and
he said all the right things, and I really trusted him,
and you know, she had sending money to him. Luckily,
she did not send crypto, you know, did not buy
cryptocurrency at at his direction. But this stuff's happening all
(12:28):
the time. It's it's terrible. If you if you enter
the term pig butchering in a search engine, you will
see all kinds of results. I found one on a lady,
an article on a lady in the Chicago suburbs. She
lost a million dollars in a pig butchering scheme. The
(12:51):
TV reporter interviewed her at her house, a house that
she was going to have to sell, and you know,
she was so embarrassed, there was so much shame. You know,
she was a widow and then she lost all this
money to this fake online boyfriend, and then she had
to tell her kids that she lost the money, and
then that she would have to sell the house. You
(13:11):
know what, these scammers are really really good. They're professionals.
They're working in compounds, scam centers, they're reading from scripts.
They're almost like actors, and they are highly motivated, and
they will contact you every single day, multiple times a day,
say all these nice things. You'll fall in love with them,
(13:34):
but please please don't. It's absolutely horrible. So then the
one variation I do want to share is, you know,
not everyone has seven hundred thousand or a million dollars
to invest. When the scammers figure that out, they will
use you as what's called a money mule. So they
(13:54):
will use you to handle their financial transactions. Or they'll
have you by phone and mail them to them, or
they'll have you receive items in the mail and forward
them to someone else as part of another scam. Or
they'll have you buy make deposits or withdrawals, or basically
be their their their hands and feet somewhere in another
(14:18):
country to do bad things. And I've met money mules,
you know, And once again, those people are usually found
online through the romance scams. So the scammers will get
you one way or another. They'll either take money from
you just to buy a plane, tickets and visit and
(14:38):
things like that that never happens. They'll get you to
invest in cryptocurrency and take all the money, or they'll
use you as a money mule. It's it's absolutely horrible.
And then one other thing I want to share today
before we wrap up is not all pig butchering schemes
start as romance scams. A lot of times they'll the
scammers will just send random text messages and something as
(15:03):
simple as Hi, you're in my address book, but I
don't know who you are. How do we know each other?
And it'll just start an online back and forth texting
and you're saying, well, I don't know you. You know
I live in Arizona, I live in Texas. And then
they go back and forth, and a lot of times
they'll send a picture and you know, they're always good looking,
(15:26):
trust me, and you know, then eventually they get to
the point where they'll introduce the cryptocurrency investing. I've seen
ones where a scammer will send a bottle of a
picture of a bottle of wine and say did you
get the bottle of wine I sent you?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
And the.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
You know, soon to be victim will say, no, I didn't.
You must have the wrong number. And then they'll just
go back and forth, and when the victim is nice
and maybe a little bored, they'll start interacting. Or you
know the last example, they'll send a text with a
cryptocurrency investment tip or an invitation to a session, an
(16:12):
info session on cryptocurrency, and people fall for it and say, oh, okay,
I'm interested, and then they get hooked when they find
out they can make you know, two thousand percent returns
and anything like that. So it doesn't have to be
a romance scam to end up in pig butchering. And then,
you know what's unbelievable that I've learned is many of
(16:33):
the victims, I'm sorry, many of the scammers that contact
victims are actually not doing it on their own free will.
A lot of these scam centers that I mentioned earlier
are based in foreign countries, a lot of them in
Southeast Asia, and these people are tricked into thinking they're
(16:54):
going somewhere to get a lucrative job, and maybe even
in the high tech sector. They show up at these buildings,
these compounds, and the scammers take their identification, they take
their phones, they put them in a room somewhere and
force them to send these text messages or social media messages.
(17:17):
And if they don't get the quota that the scammers want,
they will beat them, they will punish them, they'll make
them work longer. There's even stories of sexual assaults and
beatings of people that don't comply. The United Nations actually
did a study and they estimate there's over two hundred
(17:38):
thousand people that are considered enslaved workers in Southeast Asia
at these call centers, and then also in other parts
of the world. So it's victims contacting victims, stealing money
and giving them to the scammers that are higher up.
So it's a real tragic story and it's only getting
worse because it's so lucrative in these criminal games. These
(18:01):
criminal organizations know they can make so much money by
doing the scam thing. And it's just an example. I
read an article recently and the article is a study
on the country of Cambodia. They have a very vibrant
scam industry, unfortunately, and it's estimated that their scam industry
(18:23):
within the country generates twelve to nineteen billion dollars annually,
and that is equivalent to sixty percent of the country's GNP.
And they're not the only country that's doing this. Scamming
is very, very, very lucrative. So I first heard about
pig butchering in twenty twenty three. I was still in
(18:46):
Federal Law Enforcement. I had met Joyce Petrowski, our founder,
but I wasn't part of Rose yet. I had just
did an interview for the Rose podcast, and then I
went back to go look at it and Joyce had
posted another video interview where she interviewed a psychologist and
(19:07):
that person was talking about pig butchering, and I said,
what the heck is pig butcherin? So I watched it
and I learned. So that was one of the many
reasons I was so impressed by what Joyce and the
other team members at ROSE were doing. They were on
the cutting edge of this stuff. So little did I
know a few months later I would retire from Federal
(19:29):
Law Enforcement and start working part time for Rose. And
one of the reasons was because they're disseminating good information
and I wanted to be part of the battle against fraudsters.
So we really want you to go to Roseadvocacy dot org.
That's our website, sign up for our monthly email, and
(19:51):
we also do a every Tuesday. We have an email
that goes out with a little tip for the day.
This is just great information. You can't just sit at
home and pretend and hope these scammers aren't going to
come after you, because they're coming after you, They're come
after me. They're coming after our family, our friends, our
loved ones, our neighbors. So please sign up and then
(20:14):
go to our website too. A lot of great resources.
We have more information on pig butchering, and if you
liked today's show, send the link to someone that you
really care about. Everyone needs to know about pig butchering.
All right, that's all I have for today. I'm going
to be back next week for another show. Philly in
(20:35):
for Joyce. I'm very excited. I'm very excited she lets
she trusts me to do this. Until next time, Thank
you for watching. Let's talk about scams.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Well that's all the knowledge for this episode. June in
every Tuesday at eight am Pacific time on KFOURHD Radio
at kfourhd dot com as Joyce explores a variety of knowledge,
so you have the power to make scammed protection your
healthy habit and until then, feel free to reach out
to Joyce and let's talk about scams.
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,
professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services
(00:23):
of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational
purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional
legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted
sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to safeguard the
(00:45):
elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to
a scam. Let's talk about scams. It's the must listen
show for anyone who wants to protect themselves and their
loved ones from scams. Every Tuesday at am Pacific time
on K four HD Radio, Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose,
(01:06):
and her guests will provide valuable insights and practical tips
on how to recognize and protect yourself from scams. And
now here is your host, Joyce Petrowski.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Good Morning, everybody, welcome to Let's talk about scams. My
name is Brian Watson, filling in for Joyce Petrowski for
the next two weeks. I am a community outreach specialist
for ROSE. We are an Arizona nonprofit. ROSE is an
acronym resources outreach to safeguard the elderly and we are
(01:41):
passionate about people not falling for scams. We want to
prevent people from falling into scams in the first place.
So today's title is a little different. Hopefully it'll catch
your attention. It is what in the world is pig butchering?
And you're probably thinking, what is this guy talking about? Well,
I will explain and by the time we finish today,
(02:05):
you everyone listening and watching today will be a little
bit of an expert at pig butchering. And then we
want you to share this information with people that you
love and care about. So first of all, we need
to start and start with romance scams. It's a very
common scam that we see here at ROSE. You know,
we do a lot of presentations out in the community
(02:29):
and we hear these horror stories. So what is a
romance scam? Well, first of all, it has nothing to
do with romance. It's all about fooling people and praying
on their desire to feel loved and wanted by someone else.
So how do romance scams first? First start, usually they're
online and you know someone, and a lot of times
(02:54):
the scammers will target someone who's a widow or a widower,
or someone who you know recently got out of a
long term relationship, and their friends will say, hey, you know,
why don't you go online and make some friends on
Facebook or another social media site, or maybe even go
to a Christian dating site or or you know, play
(03:17):
words with friends. Well, let me tell you, the scammers
are out there like sharks, just patrolling these sites, and
they will start a conversation very innocuously. They'll message you
and say, hey, how are you doing, good morning? Where
are you and they'll say or they'll say, hey, you're
really handsome or you're really pretty, do you have grandkids?
(03:42):
You know what? What are your hobbies? And then it
just starts this little innocent conversation online like on Facebook Messenger,
and then soon it becomes a daily thing, and then
soon people will the scammers will will move away from
the social media site and go to something like What's
(04:03):
app or telegram, and then you never get to meet
them because this scammer is overseas. That's how these romance
scams work. And you know, maybe they're in the military,
or they're a missionary, or they're visiting family and friends overseas,
or they volunteer, and you know, because of where they
(04:25):
are is so remote, they can't make phone calls. Everything
is just like texting or online messaging. And let me
tell you, these people are the perfect boyfriend or girlfriend
because that's where they want to go. They eventually this
online quote relationship starts getting moves really fast, and before
(04:47):
you know it, people are online saying, Oh, I'm gonna
check in with my boyfriend right now, or I'm gonna
check in with my girlfriend, and they say the nicest
things and they'll shower you with affection. They may even
send you flowers or write a poem for you, and
this escalates really quick, and then eventually they want money
(05:08):
because that's what scammers do. And they will say, I
want to come visit you since we're gonna get married someday,
and then they'll ask for money and they'll say, you
know what, my credit card has been stolen or the
government here locked up my funds. Can you send me
some money so I can come visit you. So you
send them money for a plane ticket, and then when
(05:31):
they're on the way to the airport, they get in
a car accident and they're in the hospital and they
need more money. And you can see where this is going.
So that's a romance scam. And I've met people that
have lost money in romance scams. But there's only so
much money you could send someone for a plane ticket
or a hospital bill. The scammers are taken it to
(05:52):
the next level. And that's why today we're talking about
pig butchering. Yes, that is a crazy term, and I'll
explain what it is. Basically, pig butchering think of it
is a variation of the romance scam. So this variation
that we're going to talk about today, pig butchering, actually
(06:13):
started in China, and the scammers there would refer to
their victims as pigs and use a Chinese word shazu pan,
which means killing pigs plate. So in the same way
that a farmer would fatten up a pig for slaughter,
the scammers think of it the same way. They're not
(06:34):
going to kill you physically, but they want to kill
you financially, so they'll fatten you up by having you
invest money in cryptocurrency. So you're ever asked by anyone
you don't know to invest in cryptocurrency, you are the
target of a pig butchering scheme. So the same way
(06:55):
they would contact you in a romance scam social media
words with friends dating side, they do the same thing.
They build that online relationship, and you know, they prey
on people of all ages and all levels of financial sophistication,
but they often target people who've gone through a divorce
or a death of a loved one. So what they
(07:18):
do is established trust, and that's the key. They start
real slow. It's a long play scam, meaning they're not
going to ask you to invest in cryptocurrency in the
first week. They may wait a month or two. And
what they do is they'll just innocuously introduce it when
you ask hey, you know, like maybe maybe the scammer
(07:42):
will show pictures of them traveling on the weekends or
you know, going to Paris or going to London or
going something like that, and then the victim will say,
how can you afford to do all this? And the
scammer will say, well, I've done a little bit of
cryptocurrency investing. And when I say crypto, a lot of
people think bitcoin because bitcoin is sixty percent market share,
(08:03):
but there's thousands of cryptocurrencies. And then they'll say, well,
if you want to invest a little bit, you know,
let's start small and see if it works for you.
It's done very well for me. So the scammer will
ask their victim invite them, after they've gained this trust,
to invest a little bit of money in one of
(08:24):
the cryptocurrencies. And then they'll actually set up a little
platform on your screen that you can log into and
it actually will show that you're making money, but it's fake.
It's all part of the scheme. And then, you know,
we all want to make money when it comes to
stocks and things like that or investments. The victim gets
(08:45):
excited because they look on their portal and they see
that they're making money. And then here's one of the
keys that the scammers will do with pig butchering schemes.
They will refund all your money just to show that
it's liquid, and once again, it's part of the big scheme.
They want everything. So then you see that it's liquid.
(09:06):
You see that you're making money, and then they say,
all right, you ready to try it again? And then
they go for it. All okay. So pig butchering is
so different from the other romance scams because they're looking
to take every penny you have. And I have some
stories to tell. And the last time I was on
(09:26):
this show, I talked about our Anatomy of a scam
that we talk about at ROWS three parts. Contact out
of the blue, whatever way, social media, texting, email, a
compelling reason to act. Your money's frozen, your child, your
grandchild's in jail, or you've won a prize, something like that.
(09:48):
And then they always ask for money one way or another.
And then in the middle of our Anatomy of a
Scam infographic, we have urgency. This particular scam does not
fit the pattern of our Anatomy of a scam. There
is no urgency. It's a long play scam because they're
going in for the big take that they want to
(10:12):
get all the money. So it's a lot of time
and effort, but the payoff is worth it for the scammers.
About three or four years ago, when I was still
with the federal government, I was asked to talk to
a lady who had lost a bunch of money in
an investment scheme, and I didn't know all the background.
(10:33):
I did a radio show in northern Arizona and someone
heard me and said reached out to the radio station
and said, would you talk to my friend? She just
lost a bunch of money. So I called this lady up.
Super sweet lady found out she had lost seven hundred
thousand dollars. She had lost her husband, he died. She
(10:58):
ended up going online and a friend's she met this
guy who said all the right things. He sounded like
the perfect guy. He introduced the idea of investing in
cryptocurrency so that her grandchildren would be taken care of,
and she believed it, and she actually sold her house
to invest more. The scammer had convinced her to drive
(11:22):
down to a local store and she was feeding cash
into a bitcoin ATM using a QR code that the
scammer her boyfriend, fake boyfriend, had provided her. And when
he finally realized she had invested about seven hundred thousand
all of her money, he ghosted her, meaning he just
left her. And let me tell you, this lady is
(11:45):
super smart. That's not what I expected. And basically this
was a pig butchering scheme before I had even heard
the term. You know, I did a presentation last year
in southern Arizona and a lady came up to me
in tears and she said, you know, I fell in
(12:05):
love with a guy named Peter online and I thought
we were going to get married. And he was living
in Europe, or and he was the sweetest guy, and
he said all the right things, and I really trusted him,
and you know, she had sending money to him. Luckily,
she did not send crypto, you know, did not buy
cryptocurrency at at his direction. But this stuff's happening all
(12:28):
the time. It's it's terrible. If you if you enter
the term pig butchering in a search engine, you will
see all kinds of results. I found one on a lady,
an article on a lady in the Chicago suburbs. She
lost a million dollars in a pig butchering scheme. The
(12:51):
TV reporter interviewed her at her house, a house that
she was going to have to sell, and you know,
she was so embarrassed, there was so much shame. You know,
she was a widow and then she lost all this
money to this fake online boyfriend, and then she had
to tell her kids that she lost the money, and
then that she would have to sell the house. You
(13:11):
know what, these scammers are really really good. They're professionals.
They're working in compounds, scam centers, they're reading from scripts.
They're almost like actors, and they are highly motivated, and
they will contact you every single day, multiple times a day,
say all these nice things. You'll fall in love with them,
(13:34):
but please please don't. It's absolutely horrible. So then the
one variation I do want to share is, you know,
not everyone has seven hundred thousand or a million dollars
to invest. When the scammers figure that out, they will
use you as what's called a money mule. So they
(13:54):
will use you to handle their financial transactions. Or they'll
have you by phone and mail them to them, or
they'll have you receive items in the mail and forward
them to someone else as part of another scam. Or
they'll have you buy make deposits or withdrawals, or basically
be their their their hands and feet somewhere in another
(14:18):
country to do bad things. And I've met money mules,
you know, And once again, those people are usually found
online through the romance scams. So the scammers will get
you one way or another. They'll either take money from
you just to buy a plane, tickets and visit and
(14:38):
things like that that never happens. They'll get you to
invest in cryptocurrency and take all the money, or they'll
use you as a money mule. It's it's absolutely horrible.
And then one other thing I want to share today
before we wrap up is not all pig butchering schemes
start as romance scams. A lot of times they'll the
scammers will just send random text messages and something as
(15:03):
simple as Hi, you're in my address book, but I
don't know who you are. How do we know each other?
And it'll just start an online back and forth texting
and you're saying, well, I don't know you. You know
I live in Arizona, I live in Texas. And then
they go back and forth, and a lot of times
they'll send a picture and you know, they're always good looking,
(15:26):
trust me, and you know, then eventually they get to
the point where they'll introduce the cryptocurrency investing. I've seen
ones where a scammer will send a bottle of a
picture of a bottle of wine and say did you
get the bottle of wine I sent you?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
And the.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
You know, soon to be victim will say, no, I didn't.
You must have the wrong number. And then they'll just
go back and forth, and when the victim is nice
and maybe a little bored, they'll start interacting. Or you
know the last example, they'll send a text with a
cryptocurrency investment tip or an invitation to a session, an
(16:12):
info session on cryptocurrency, and people fall for it and say, oh, okay,
I'm interested, and then they get hooked when they find
out they can make you know, two thousand percent returns
and anything like that. So it doesn't have to be
a romance scam to end up in pig butchering. And then,
you know what's unbelievable that I've learned is many of
(16:33):
the victims, I'm sorry, many of the scammers that contact
victims are actually not doing it on their own free will.
A lot of these scam centers that I mentioned earlier
are based in foreign countries, a lot of them in
Southeast Asia, and these people are tricked into thinking they're
(16:54):
going somewhere to get a lucrative job, and maybe even
in the high tech sector. They show up at these buildings,
these compounds, and the scammers take their identification, they take
their phones, they put them in a room somewhere and
force them to send these text messages or social media messages.
(17:17):
And if they don't get the quota that the scammers want,
they will beat them, they will punish them, they'll make
them work longer. There's even stories of sexual assaults and
beatings of people that don't comply. The United Nations actually
did a study and they estimate there's over two hundred
(17:38):
thousand people that are considered enslaved workers in Southeast Asia
at these call centers, and then also in other parts
of the world. So it's victims contacting victims, stealing money
and giving them to the scammers that are higher up.
So it's a real tragic story and it's only getting
worse because it's so lucrative in these criminal games. These
(18:01):
criminal organizations know they can make so much money by
doing the scam thing. And it's just an example. I
read an article recently and the article is a study
on the country of Cambodia. They have a very vibrant
scam industry, unfortunately, and it's estimated that their scam industry
(18:23):
within the country generates twelve to nineteen billion dollars annually,
and that is equivalent to sixty percent of the country's GNP.
And they're not the only country that's doing this. Scamming
is very, very, very lucrative. So I first heard about
pig butchering in twenty twenty three. I was still in
(18:46):
Federal Law Enforcement. I had met Joyce Petrowski, our founder,
but I wasn't part of Rose yet. I had just
did an interview for the Rose podcast, and then I
went back to go look at it and Joyce had
posted another video interview where she interviewed a psychologist and
(19:07):
that person was talking about pig butchering, and I said,
what the heck is pig butcherin? So I watched it
and I learned. So that was one of the many
reasons I was so impressed by what Joyce and the
other team members at ROSE were doing. They were on
the cutting edge of this stuff. So little did I
know a few months later I would retire from Federal
(19:29):
Law Enforcement and start working part time for Rose. And
one of the reasons was because they're disseminating good information
and I wanted to be part of the battle against fraudsters.
So we really want you to go to Roseadvocacy dot org.
That's our website, sign up for our monthly email, and
(19:51):
we also do a every Tuesday. We have an email
that goes out with a little tip for the day.
This is just great information. You can't just sit at
home and pretend and hope these scammers aren't going to
come after you, because they're coming after you, They're come
after me. They're coming after our family, our friends, our
loved ones, our neighbors. So please sign up and then
(20:14):
go to our website too. A lot of great resources.
We have more information on pig butchering, and if you
liked today's show, send the link to someone that you
really care about. Everyone needs to know about pig butchering.
All right, that's all I have for today. I'm going
to be back next week for another show. Philly in
(20:35):
for Joyce. I'm very excited. I'm very excited she lets
she trusts me to do this. Until next time, Thank
you for watching. Let's talk about scams.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Well that's all the knowledge for this episode. June in
every Tuesday at eight am Pacific time on KFOURHD Radio
at kfourhd dot com as Joyce explores a variety of knowledge,
so you have the power to make scammed protection your
healthy habit and until then, feel free to reach out
to Joyce and let's talk about scams.
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