September 2, 2025 • 49 mins
Dr. Marina Dove is back to discuss romance scams - their techniques, who is most vulnerable, changes over time in how scammers manipulate, and how can we protect ourselves.
Dr. Martina Dove has a background in psychology and specializes in scams, social engineering, and individual factors implicated in fraud compliance.
Listen in as we dive into romance scams techniques, how scammers manipulate, and what you can to protect yourself and your loved ones.
Let’s Talk About Scams is broadcast live Tuesdays at 8AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Let’s Talk About Scams TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Let’s Talk About Scams Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Disclaimer: The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional / legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references; however, R.O.S.E. Resources / Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/let-s-talk-about-scams--6483699/support.
Dr. Martina Dove has a background in psychology and specializes in scams, social engineering, and individual factors implicated in fraud compliance.
Listen in as we dive into romance scams techniques, how scammers manipulate, and what you can to protect yourself and your loved ones.
Let’s Talk About Scams is broadcast live Tuesdays at 8AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Let’s Talk About Scams TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Let’s Talk About Scams Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Disclaimer: The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional / legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references; however, R.O.S.E. Resources / Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/let-s-talk-about-scams--6483699/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational
purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional
legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted
sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to safeguard the
(00:45):
elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to
a scam. Let's talk about scams. It's the must listen
show for anyone who wants to protect themselves and their
loved ones from scams. Every Tuesday am Pacific time on
K four HD Radio, Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose, and
(01:06):
her guests. We'll provide valuable insights and practical tips on
how to recognize and protect yourself from scams. And now
here is your host, Joyce Petrowski.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Hi, everybody, welcome, back. Hope everybody had a great long
Labor Day weekend. And I'm Joyce Petrowski, founder and board
president of Rose Resources Outreach to safeguard the elderly.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
You're going to want to get on our.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Website, Roseadvocacy dot org. You'll find all of our social
media links on the homepage and scroll down to the
bottom and you'll find where you can sign up for
our emailed newsletter and our mailed newsletter, and don't forget.
You're going to want to click subscribe so you don't
miss an episode of our Let's Talk About Scams show.
And today we have a prior guest that's going to
(01:55):
join us, doctor Martina Dove. She's an expert in scam
specifically against the older adults, and she wrote a book
called The Psychology of Fraud, Persuasion and Scam Techniques. And
so today we're going to talk about more about the
(02:16):
romance scam and some different techniques that scammers use. So
let's welcome doctor Martina Dove.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Hello, everyone, nice to be here again.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Thank you Martina for for doing this again. So we
talked a little bit about it, but what are some
of the scam or techniques that scammers use as it
pertains specifically to romance scams.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Yeah, like there's you know, I would say roman scams
are quite complicated as scams because techniques tend to be
layered all the time. So you know, you have a
time where you're building rapport with a you know, a
potential victim, so you get to layer techniques over and
over and over, which like in a process that I
(03:02):
call grooming. That it's known actually in the industry is grooming.
So some of the techniques from the beginning, it's engaging
the the you know, potential victim in the conversation where
you're just getting that first commitment stage where you're exchanging
messages every day, you're talking several times a day, you're
(03:25):
building that trust and that bond. But I think, you know,
kind of like more recents comes also focused on getting
that kind of like a habit forming behavior from the victims.
So you know that you are engaging in a conversation
every day. These conversations are positive and you know the
(03:48):
victim is responding to that kind of treatment and it's
getting I don't want to use the word hooked, but
it's getting accustomed to having that attention every day and
having that friendship every day. So it starts like that,
and then as the time progresses, this camera may send
little tokens, you know, and gifts such as, you know,
(04:10):
I've heard victims tell me he sent me some money
for presents he sent me, Like one victim told me
he sent me a birthday cake. I ate it, like
it crazy, you know, for my birthday. So like, it's
not uncommon that cameras will invest a little bit of
money in the beginning to kind of send the victims
some you know, kind of like tokens of love. And
(04:31):
that serves two purpose, you know, dual purpose basically, one
you know purpose it serves is that it adds credibility
to the relationships. So if you have friends and family
questioning whether this is a real relationship because the person
has not met this person in real life, right, like,
like why would somebody be sending your gifts they're not interested?
(04:54):
So that a real right exactly, It makes it all
the more real, It makes it really credible. And then
on the other hand, you know, there's a non technique
called reciprocity. It's when somebody does as favors, we feel
obliged to do them favors, So it's really grooming the
victim to feel obliged when Ascama needs.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
A favor, return the favor, and that's usually.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
When they need the money. So so basically it starts
like that. It starts very positive, It starts with these
like topics of love. What I'm seeing recently as well
is that there are a lot of credibility c cues
whereas Comer is openly sending you know, like it's proof
of what they're telling the victim, where they're sending them
(05:42):
to websites they talk about, you know, and they create
these things right Like so let's say Escama will tell
you they work abroad and they have a company. There'll
be a website for that company. You know, they'll be
they'll be you know, they'll clone websites of banks once
uh down the road, when they're asking for money or
(06:02):
something like that, you'll credentials to log into the bank account,
which is real, it's not real application made just to
scam victims.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
And they're they're getting really good at cloning websites, all
different types of websites.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Like and I would say, you know, this is where
a new technology comes in with AI. It's very very
easy to create. You don't need a developer, you know,
need to create uh this realistic looking prototypes. You know
that mimic bil website, you know, our applications. So then
kind of like after that initial stage, you know, there
(06:42):
will be typically in Roman scamps, there will be something
called what I call a critical incident, uh somethings to
the scammer, right, like like a lot of the times
come doesn't ask for money, they will invent this incident
either something happened, you know, and this story is very
they were in the accident their business, you know, like
(07:06):
somebody is suing them and and you know their accounts
are locked. You know. I heard the story whereas Coma
said there's been an explosion on a on a construction
site that he runs and now he's been sued. You know.
So there's there's like these big, big stories and a
lot of the times they'll support it with some pictures
(07:26):
or something. Again, now with AI, it's really easy to
actually create some content that would make it credible. And yeah,
and through that, like I would say, through that incident
is where a victim will offer to help because they
feel guilty that now somebody they love by this time,
(07:47):
you know, and grooming stage can last months and months
and months, you know, and the conversations are very deep,
and these conversations are very you know, very convincing. You know,
the victim may want to help what they think is
their boyfriend by this time, or fiance or you know,
and and therefore, like a lot of the times, the
(08:08):
victim will offer them money because they feel like they
have to help, even when they feel uncomfortable, you know,
they feel like they must do it, you know, because
they you know, this person has been kind to them,
and we are brought up to exactly return favors, be
kind to people, help people. So it's really praying on
(08:30):
all of those things. And then if that doesn't work,
if you know that doesn't work, the comma may start,
like I've heard stories such as the comma started saying
they're going to kill themselves just short. You know, they'll
start blackmailing the victim in some way, either like emotionally,
or they'll start applying direct threats such as like I'm
(08:53):
going to leave this relationship. I see that you're not committed,
you know. And and by this time, a lot of
the times, victims are so committed at the money is like,
you know, even just losing the money is not, as
you know, as important to them as losing a relationship.
You know. So a lot of the times, like they
(09:14):
you know, scammers will take advantage of.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
That emotional bond, right, so it's that emotional toll afterwards,
there's that financial aspect, but a lot of times that
emotional psychological toll is much more severe, especially in this
type of scam, because they've invested so much time, you know,
with the scammer who they thought was a real well
(09:37):
they are a real person, but you know that they
believed that they were their fiance or boyfriend, girlfriend absolutely.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
And you know, one thing that I'm also seeing, like
I'm seeing like much more sophisticated techniques now than even
just a few years ago, even just five six years ago,
you know, because of the technology and because it's becoming
very very very luc I've heard stories where victims have
told me, you know, I messaged him on a dating site,
(10:07):
but his profile we had so much in common. So
I think, what's happening, what must be happening. I don't
have any proof, but I think through these stories, I've
heard enough stories now to think that perhaps commers are
joining dating sites and looking at the profiles and then
creating profiles that would appeal to very specific woman, right,
(10:28):
you know, maybe mimicking their situation or their you know,
what they're believing, what they like doing, or stuff like that,
and then you feel like you've contacted them that it's
not a scam. Do you see what I mean? So
all of the advice that we've been giving two people
to protect themselves, they are now trying to kind of
(10:50):
like bypass with the new technique.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Oh right, because we talk about that uninitiated contact and
you've got to be very very careful with that. But
if you make the count act, then you already believe
that this is a real control looking to date somebody,
not just you have to scam somebody.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
You believe you're in control and therefore you're safe. Right.
So it's I think I'm seeing more and more than
the new and newer techniques are bypassing the advice about
the old techniques. So they're getting you know, they're getting inventive.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Right, and you know it's like you mentioned lucrative to
them before, is they're going to constantly be changing their
techniques and when they see what people are out there
telling other people to do to protect themselves. Well then
they're like, all right, well we're going to use that
to our advantage.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
And absolutely, yeah, it's.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Extremely difficult to try to keep up with them, right
and or stay one step ahead of them.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
It's very difficult. And I remember total anecdote, but I
remember when I was starting my PG. I remember one
of the examiners oppose the questions, you know, because you
have to defend your idea and you have to keep
depending your idea as you as you're studying. One of
the examiners on you know, on my annual review was
(12:13):
something said to me, aren't sure worried that cameras are
going to take you know, kind of like pointers from
your PhD? And I'm like no, because once they're behind,
you know, I'm not you know, I'm I like, I
couldn't think of everything that's comes to think, you know,
you know, so I think, like, we are always one
step behind, but it's important to be one step behind
(12:35):
and not ten.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
The exactly think yeah yeah, which you know goes to
the fact about why it's so important for people to
report yes, you know, even you know, good chance you're
not going to get any of your money back. But
you still should report because it gives not only law
enforcement and prosecutors and information, is that it does get
(13:01):
disseminated down to the you know, the public, and like
we get information that we can then put out to people.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Absolutely, I would say one other thing that I keep
stressing about reporting even though and I think a lot
of people don't report because they feel nothing would be done.
So it's not it's the waste of the time. But
I say, it's not waste of your time because you know,
like think about how big movements happen. They don't happen
because one person did something. It happens because people came
(13:29):
together and you know, created a procedure for like amplifying something.
And I think when people report, the scale of the
problem becomes apparent, and the problems that are at a
high like a bally big scale get funded.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
You know.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
So I think, you know, when the government thinks there's
not such a big problem, they're not going to be
funding efforts to tackle those problems. So the more silent
we are, it plays into the hands of cammers, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Basically, Yeah, and I know just you know, in the
state of Arizona. Looking at the FBI statistics every year,
looking at you know, and that goes based on what
people report and looking at how much money they lost
in twenty twenty versus how much they lost in twenty
twenty four.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
It went up six hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Yeah, yeah, And I think percentage, it's huge percentage. And
I also think, like I do, think people are reporting more,
and I think we are raising awareness that there's nothing
to be ashamed of. This is a crime. This is
a criminal activity, you know, and I think it needs
to be reported. And I think, you know, I think
(14:45):
like perhaps an increase is in the fact that some
more people are reporting, because once upon a time, I
think the figure for reporting was only like eight percent
or something, you know, so it was just a tip
of the iceberg, you know, when I was studying some
of the fee for reporting very very low. I think
that figure is higher, but it's still not one hundred percent.
(15:06):
I would like you to be handy, and it's not close.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
It's not even close to Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Yeah, So changes over time, because the romance scam has
been around for years, right, is the majority of the
changes that you're seeing. Do you think is it because
of artificial intelligence, it's about definitely.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Artificial intelligence has enabled comers to operate cheaply. Right. So
for example, whereas cams, you know, you could spot some
like spelling mistakes, you know, and stuff like that. For example,
Scamra wasn't native English speaker, you know, and for example,
when they sent you an email, it wouldn't be perfectly beautiful.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Looking and the bad grammar anymore.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Exactly. Now that all is smoothed over by you know,
you can use chagipity free, you know. And I think
depending on how like I know chagipity, Like if you'll
say to you know, chagipity, hey, can you write me
a fishing email? You won't do it, but you can
trick it into writing a phishing email or tiding up
(16:15):
your email and making it nice, nicely, you know better drammatically.
So that's one aspect of it. And then there's like
these fakes have become so good. You know, you can
fake video, you can fake photographs, you can fake a
rail of photographs. Whereas this comma, you know, like let's
say just ten years ago, comma would have to go
(16:35):
on somebody's Facebook adam as a friend, then steal their
photos to them like be able to send some photos.
Now they can just generate, like you know, they can
generate lots of photos that are the same person, you know,
in different situations. So it's definitely adding to their credibility.
And then you know, as I said, I'm seeing a
(16:55):
really big uptick in credible like the extreme credibility cues
that I call like and that's where a victim, you know,
the critical incident happens right like somebody you know, and
then the person says, look, you know, do you might
account log into my account? Can you log into my
account and just transfer money into that account from my account?
(17:19):
And then they give the log in details. The victim things,
they're in a Bank of America accountant. They not, they're
in a prototype or a website that mimics them America.
They see, this person has lots of money, and you know,
and a lot of the times the victims like when
they when they were going through that thing, and that's
(17:41):
purely done so that the trust is built up. The
victims said to me, you know, like I felt almost
privileged because he's trusting me to go into his bank
account and send this money. And there was lots of
money in this account, So I felt privileged. I thought,
this is like we are really truly a partners, you know.
So I think like those kind of things, more sophisticated
(18:02):
techniques in terms of like apping these credibility things that
add to trust, right, like that kind of build the trust.
So I'm seeing a lot of that, and I think
that's down to the AI because before it would cost
like you know, it would cause this camera to build
these things. Now it's easier and cheaper. And then also
(18:22):
there's organized coming compounds now, right, so like it's a business.
It's like coming is run like a business. Whereas it
used to be a lone person here and there maybe
a small organized group. Now there's like you know, there's
like it was, Yeah, it's serral, it's I mean, I mean,
(18:46):
I'm I'm not laughing. I'm just like and sometimes I'm
even impressed just how how serious they took the descrime
and how brazen they are in how they operate. But yeah,
I think all of that combined, you know, and then
you have probably smart people like running it's supporting other
people that are coming and you know, and so on.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
So yeah, definitely, So you mentioned you know about the
scammer showing the victim that they trust them. Does that
psychologically do you think make the victim want to then
more readily trust the scammer?
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Definitely? I mean, I mean think about this, right, like
we believe what we see and hear, right, and and
you know, like if you see somebody's bank account, right,
this is the person telling you, hey, I'm rich. Right,
this is a person showing you the are rige. But
you've seen it with your own eyes. You think you've
seen it with your own eyes, right, So of course
you're going to trust it, you know. And they do
(19:50):
that before you even ask them. So like what's smart
about this whole thing is that kind I won't even
wait for you to say, how do I know you're
blah blah blah. They are offering these credibility cues before
the victim even has a warning sign, you know. So
it's really it's like really sophisticated manipulation. Whereas in a past,
(20:12):
maybe you know, a victim would just say, hey, how
do I know, like I don't want to send you
the money, how do I know you bought a train
ticket with that or something? Right? And then there would
maybe fake a train ticket or plane ticket or something.
Now it's like the faking bank accounts and you'll send
like literally you are sending the money. You are like
making a wire transfer and having a process that any
(20:35):
bank will have the meaning that you know, so why
wouldn't you trust that? You know? And and and it's
only kind of like when when a scam happens and
and a victim has realized that they you know, some
some victims have taken screenshots and then they realized that
maybe the website wasn't exactly so but even you know,
(20:56):
even some of the legitimate companies are using these proxy
websites to send emails like mail champ and you know,
so the links are not always coming from them.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
A real we use mail champ and we send out
our news.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
So hard to know, like it's really really hard to
know sometimes, you know, and Amazon has all these spools
not spools, but they have a lot of different types
of kind of like uh, you know, ends of their
emails or their you know, web addresses for different pages,
and you know, it's very easy to just know, yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
What was it?
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Well, right, so like when they they put on the
scammer puts on the screen their bank account, right, your
I think your eyes automatically go towards the dollar amount
because they're trying to show you that they are rich
or you know that they have not.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Even yeah, it's not even though they show you joyce.
They send you a link to the website, can give
you all evidentials to log in from several victims basically
the camera. You know, I'm in like Emirates, Like my
bank account is not allowing me to log in. Do
(22:10):
you mind sending these business associates so that I avoid
the legal things? Like they send a link to the
bank's website, right, but it's not it's a link to
a They give the victim details to log in. The
log in is mimicked. The victim logs in, the victims
(22:30):
doing it on their computer and they're seeing it. You know,
like these prototypes act like you know, like you know,
in production we call them, you know, when you're making products,
we call them feature flags. They behave like a real product, right,
but it's not yet in production, right, So so it's
kind of like they can create these prototypes that look
(22:52):
real and behave real and behave like a normal product.
It's very difficult to tell that it's not real. Yeah,
very difficult.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Well you have trained in that development part of it
to know what to look for, and the majority of
the people aren't, no.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Because you wouldn't. Why would you? You know, Like I
mean when you log in onto your bank account, like
you're not paying attention to every single time in my
new detail, right, Like it's a routine activity, right, So
it's like, why wouldn't you? I think it's it's that
moment of like being caught doing routine things that you're
(23:28):
just not you know, why would you doubt somebody who's
giving you the credentials tools?
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Right, they're credentials, right, because it's like, oh, they're supposed
to keep that confidential, but they must really trust me.
And if they're creating me this information, well it's.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Fay sinister and like that that didn't use to exist.
So I'm not surprised that people are, you know, convinced
that this is a real relationship. I mean, if somebody
gave me logins to their bank account, I would think, well, Okay,
this person really trusts me, and then like I would
(24:03):
feel bad not trusting them, you know too.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Right, right? That reciprocal.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
But so.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I think when romance scams first started coming out, they
the scammers would target the older adults, the seniors. Are
they still the most vulnerable to these types of scams or.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
I think not just for romance scams, but also to scams.
I see a lot of like, elderly people specifically get
a lot of scams for sweet stakes and things like
that that comes from like these you know, two organizations
that are trusted or that they the lottery and stuff
(24:49):
like that, and or some like I think I can't
remember what was the name of that, but like some
kind of you know, organization that typically runs this switch takes.
They'll mimic letters for that, so they're targeting people with
letters as well as emails and stuff like that. So
I would say the elderly people, I think the you
know why I think elderly people get targeted a lot.
(25:12):
I think it's down to a couple of things. One
is that, you know, perhaps they may be not as
aware because they're not online so much, so they may
not be aware of the new things, so you're catching
them unaware. They typically have money because they reach the
point in their life when they own their own houses
for one case, you know, and when I say elderly,
(25:35):
I don't often, you know, like they can spend you know,
I think I would say older rather than elderly, you know,
because like I think, you know, people are you know,
can be older, but not necessarily completely vulnerable or anything
like that. So, you know, but like you are the
point of your life that actually you're a lucrative victim,
So why not invest time in that victim, you know,
(25:58):
because you can actually get a lot of money, especially
with the speak Butcherings cams, with the with the romance fraud,
you know, the amount of money tends to be larger.
But really anybody is vulnerable. You know. We're seeing now's
extortion targeting children, you know, and again it's it's becoming
(26:21):
very prominent exactly. So it's like I don't think there's
an age group that isn't targeted. I think it's really
depends what types of scams are sent to. I would
say romans scams tend to target people that are you know,
of an age where you may have gotten divorced, you know,
and your house or you lost your spouse. Yeah, and
(26:44):
I think this is where you're really vulnerable because you know,
maybe you were out of the dating scene for a while,
and therefore you're not aware of what's going on, right,
Like like somebody else who's actively dating, you know, would
maybe be aware. So it's kind of like trying to
figure out like who is more vulnerable to what and
(27:05):
then just hitting that demographic more aggressively. And there's a
say that a young person wouldn't be hit with the
Roman scams. Please don't quote me like anybody's vulnerable, always be,
always be watching for scammers.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Yeah, everybody is vulnerable to any scam, right, It's just
or I should say anybody is a target to any scam.
It's just some age populations have a tendency to be
a little bit more vulnerable to specific scams, right. And
like you said, you know, especially with the older adults,
you would have somebody that's maybe been married for fifty
(27:40):
plus years and they lost their spouse. Well, that creates
a huge loneliness. And then if they're not connected to
their community, they're even more lonely, which is one of
the you know, red flags for them. But this, you know,
the SCAMMERSPC like if they're on a dating site or
(28:01):
they're on Facebook and their relationship status is widow or
widower and they have that and their you know, or
they've been talking about on Facebook about the loss of
their spouse and all of that.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I think we give out way too.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Much information online, personal information. That scammers are constantly trolling
all of these sites to gather information. And with AI, right,
I mean that they can just plug in I'm looking
for these keywords.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
And I wouldn't even say like that. I would say
we posit that we likeink about how many data breaches
have happened, and boy kids of information, you know. So
for example, it's a known fact that when people become
la widowed, or they suffer some medical you know, trauma
(28:55):
or accident or illness, this is where the scammers start
contacting you. This is not because they're trolling the Facebook,
because that would be two time consuming. It's because they're
stealing data. They're purchasing data, you know, and some of
these organizations are selling data, you know, they're selling our data.
So it's kind of like I think it comes more nowadays.
(29:16):
I think once upon a time, probably now nowadays probably
comes from just being purchased for very little money and
then just like you're being hit, you know, because these
things are recorded in registries and and you know, some
of this information is public information, you know, so it's
kind of you know, like I would say, smart cameras
(29:37):
don't invest a lot of time trolling anything. They already
have that, you know, they can easily purchase. I think
like some of credit card information can be purchased for
like pennies, you know, or sense you know.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
So it's kind of like I mean, like a lot
of times.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
So this is interesting when you mentioned credit card information.
My husband and I recently were out this new ice
cream shop in the area and I used one of
our credit cards to pay and it wanted me to
like sign up for rewards or whatever, so I hate yes,
(30:15):
and it immediately had all of my personal information.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
For the rewards.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I didn't have to input it anymore. And it was
like that had to have come from the credit card.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
It's it's not just a credit card like think of it,
you know. And I've done a research project when I
was working for Microsoft, I think, you know how on
on data. And one of the interesting things that that
I realized when I was doing some research on kind
of how how a data gets uh sent and shared
(30:49):
and so on and support. So like businesses will collect
as much data about you as they possibly can, because
they can target you with marketing things and they hit
exactly advertising but not advertising offers. Right, if they hit
you with the right offer, you know, it's a it's
a legal is coming in a sense.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Right.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
So so basically, the more they know about you, the
more they can actually target you with things that will
be of interest, right the way you can purchase something.
So so what happens is that let's say you know,
like a shop or not to name any names, but
let's say you're shopping with a certain shop. Are you
ask shop or you know, a larger a department store,
but the department stores what you're spending money on, they
(31:33):
probably have kept some information on like maybe you loggin
video number for rewards or something like that, so they
know what you're purchasing, right, but they you know, maybe
they know what you're purchasing and they know your like
a laptop I D and your IP address if you're
purchasing online. Right, So if I was that store, I
(31:54):
don't have other information like who are you're voting for
or who are you like? I don't know other stuff.
So they that they can go to a data broker
who has collected other information about you, and like you're
going to websites where you're reading news, or you're going
on different social media sites with the same laptop with
the same IP address, with the same laptop with the
(32:15):
same ID, and they will join the data right like
bio laptop I D right like your your you know
computer ID, and they will create what it's known as
golden red card. It's basically everything about you. And there
are data brokers that have some pieces of information. The
(32:35):
companies can go, can you tell me more about the
person living in this IB address with this computer. They
will then say, well, the same IP address as this computer,
and that computer is browsing this, that and the other.
Because a lot of the times when I'm like, let's
say browsing as still order, but my husband gets advertisements
where still order, and I know they join the joining
(32:58):
our data just be address, you know, because it's sending
to a different computer like with a different but like
that's how companies and legitimate companies do it all the time.
They purchase data, they join data so that they know
everything about you. Because if they know everything about you,
they can then hit you with things that are interesting.
(33:19):
And how is do to saying, you know, I mean
no doubt.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
That they have access to buy that data, right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
So it's interesting. I try a lot when I get.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
On websites and it comes up and says we track cookies.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
You know you.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Sometimes it'll give you the option to reject all except
for the necessary ones, or manage them. And I'll either
reject all or I'll go in and manage and I
turn everything off. And it's because it's different by the company.
Sometimes they have everything turned on and you have to
turn off everything except for the strictly necessary ones. So
(33:57):
if you turn everything off except strictly necessary, then is that,
like by law, they're not supposed to be in essence
tracking you and what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
I think in America, I think some states. I think
California has a law, but I don't know that most
of the states don't really have good privacy laws. It's
really yeah, it's stayed by state. I know in Europe
they would have to abide by it, but they don't.
I still get like I lived in London for a
long time and I still get like random emails, somebody
(34:29):
sold my data even though you know I didn't, you know,
they have to abide by JDPR, you know regulation where
like they have to They can't just like contact me
unless I've done business with them, but they purchased something
like you know, from someone and and so like I think,
you know a lot of the times, you know. What
(34:50):
I find as well is that smaller businesses will abide
by that because they're just two of and then a
larger businesses will will still being yeah exactly, or if
they don't get like even the strict cookies, like the
cookies for performance website performance, right, they still track your
IP address, they still truck some of the information, right like,
(35:11):
so they can still join that information. Go to a
data broker and say, hey, we have these these customers
we don't have like you know, just give me a
golden record on that, right and they'll you know, so
a lot of our data is out there, you know.
And I think it's easy to purchase. I don't think
it's very expensive. And actually when you go to websites
(35:32):
for these data brokers, you can buy packages people who
like buying for Fourth of July, people who like Christmas,
people who you know, all of the purchase data is
collected and curated, so that like for certain things that
can hit people that actually have previously purchased, you know,
purchase a lot of Christmas so buy lots of Christmas
(35:53):
ornaments every single year. I go overboard, right, I'm probably
on some list for that.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Yeah, And you know that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
So that brings up a question I've been reading articles
about and they're usually subscription based where you can pay
companies that will monitor your data online and wipe it.
You know, as they see it, they'll they'll get it off.
So it's and it's normally a paid subscription. Is that
(36:23):
two different things what we were just talking about what's
collected on a website and then could be sold versus
what is online?
Speaker 4 (36:33):
I don't know. I mean like it really depends like
how you use it. I don't know. I think to
some degree, maybe they'll have some success requesting that your
data is removed, but as you browse again, it's on
there somebody, it's on there again, and you know they're
collecting things on you again. And also I think a
(36:53):
lot of like I think when you're thinking about legitimate businesses,
I'm not worried that notes from a target has information
on what kind of things I bought in the stores
or what kind of website I'm reading news on, Like
I know they're not going to do anything bad about that,
you know, Like it's it's just you know, and the
worst they're going to send me some advertisement, right like,
and that's fine, I will purchase or one purchase this
(37:15):
up to me. But I think what I'm worried about
is a lot of that data is also on dark
web that you can e raise, you know, and then
it's it's more difficult to manage, and that's where criminals
are purchasing that data. So I do not yeah, exactly,
So it really depends, like I feel like we have
lost of war on data privacy. Just be very careful,
(37:38):
like just be aware that you know, a lot of
what it is on you know, what you do online
is tracked in some way, and yeah, like it's it's
very much. Yeah, Like I do know what degree you
could remove all of your data from everywhere.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Including right because like you said, you know, you could
have cookies enabled out there with a company that you
haven't done business within ten years, but they're still there
and they're still tracking you.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
And it's not just even like I think even when
you OpEd out of the cookies or you know, like
it's it's it's like, I think there are there are
businesses that actually data is the business. They screate for
data and data, you know. But I think a lot
of these datas as well, like the legitimate companies keep
on us, has been has been breached and stolen, and
(38:33):
so it exists in another universe that I don't know,
I don't know, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah, the dark web.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
And I've noticed in the last year I've been seeing
more data breaches to health companies, so whether it's an
insurance company, whether it's some sort of like I think
the most recent one I saw was with the dialysis
center was breached. And you know, that's a lot of information,
(39:00):
a lot of personal information out there.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
Yeah, no, it's it's really like I think that worries
me as well. And I think a lot of the
companies as well done abide by the hip either like
they you know, you have to have a control over
whether you want that information to be shared even you know,
like for example, I go to a spa, you know,
(39:24):
in my local gym for a massage and they have
a form they should allow me to opt out of
them sharing what I share with them, but the form
is always broken and you can only accept and not deny.
And so I'm always very aware that I'm just not
like I'm I'm so suspicious that I'm just not truthful.
(39:45):
Sometimes I guard my date of birth. I guard my
you know, like like if you know, I remember like
some years ago I was subscribed to a magazine in
England and like that subscription wanted my day to birth.
Why I just I have a fake I have a
fake data birth sometimes like I will put you know.
(40:06):
So it's kind of like I think it's on a
need to know basis, Like you don't need to and
you don't need to be completely honest with your medical data.
Like some applications that you know end up you know,
being used for you to be targeted by like some products,
(40:26):
you know. So so I feel like I think we are.
I don't know there is a good way to protect
a data, you know. So just my my advice would
be to just be careful with what you share online. Uh,
and and kind of even just share online in terms
of what seems like a legitimate company, not just on Facebook,
(40:47):
you know, sharing your stuff.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Right and and you know, like you said, always always question,
you know why, don't don't be afraid to ask, you know,
why do you need this information? And I often tell
people if the response is, well it's a question on
the form, that's not an answer. That just might be
that the person you're asking has no idea I know
(41:09):
information is really needed or not right.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
Sometimes you can't even you're checking out, like at the store,
and they'll want you or like your email address, like
why just can I just forget a receipt you need?
You know, Sometimes it's like, oh, but they prefer us
to have your email address. Well, I prefer not to
give it, you.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Know, right now now I think they're you know, they're
they're using it as we can email you your receipt
because a lot of people are paperlesss they'd rather have
the receipt emailed. Well, then, now now the company has
your email address, right, that might not.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
It's fine, I mean, email address is pretty benign. But
then you get you get bombarded and you know, or
like your phone and they're like, oh no, we would
never text you. And the next day you get.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Right, you get attacked. Well, we're going to text.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
You when things go on sale and when there's ads right,
it's yeah. Yeah, so wow. So outside of data privacy
and being careful of what you share online, are there
other ways that we can protect ourselves when specifically regarding
around like romance scams.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Yeah, I would say, like, I mean, I know it's
super basic, but I think in the age of AI
right now, with the fact that people can fake videos
pretty realistically, I would say, like, just have a rule
to not engage with people that are not in your
hometown and they don't want to meet, like try and
(42:41):
meet straight away, like, you know, if this is a
real relationship, if it is a real, real thing, Like
if somebody contacts you and it's comings are very good,
it'll contact you and say, I'm just on a business
trip right now. I'm like some coming back next month.
Just you know, don't don't engage in conversations two deep conversations,
just say oh great, like it seems like we have
(43:01):
a lot in common, but like, let me talk when
you're back. When you're back, you know. And I think
I think, like it's it's almost impossible to give any
other advice because I think once you get emotionally involved,
it's sometimes too late to actually give any rational advice.
But I think, like with AI becoming so good and
(43:23):
creating really good deep fakes, I don't know that you
can even be sure when you're speaking to somebody on
a video that that's the real pace exactly.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
That that's because you have to know the nuances to
look for, right. I recently had to verify myself and
I had to do a video selfie and you know,
they said, okay, turn your head to the right, turn
your head to the left, and I do that a
few times, and it was monitoring, you know, and so
(43:53):
you know, it's it's interesting the advances that they're making
verify somebody.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Definitely, I mean, like like like AI, it's good, but
like sometimes when you like like lift your hands or
something like that, it can kind of like go a
little bit weird. So like I mean, you could, like
that's one thing, if you're talking to somebody on a video,
you can ask them to lift the hands to take
(44:22):
off the background, or you know, to kind of like
you know, put something in front of them, like a
book or something like that. And sometimes they can give
you an idea whether there's a filter over the video.
But I I, you know, I'm so impressed with how
far AI has come just in a year or two
that I would say, I wouldn't even like say that
(44:43):
that's safe. Come, let's just meet in local Starbucks, right.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
Yeah, right, definitely, because so many things can be faked.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
I know. It's it's like with the AI, I would say,
And and that's something I've just updated my book. The
second edition is coming in October or November, I think.
And one of the things that I talk about is like,
how AI is going to really distort what a reality
is because reality is shaped by what we hear and
(45:16):
what we see, and both can be faked by AI.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Now exactly right.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Voices can be cloned, right, places can be cloned, So
how do we how will we ever know? Right? Unless
you're standing in front of.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
Me, exactly and you still have to keep your guard
up when you're meeting somebody in person, absolutely right, because
they still can you know, it happens unfortunately all the time. Right,
We're trying to tell you something you don't need, you know,
They're they're trying to, you know, develop a friendship or
(45:50):
a love interest in order to have you sign everything over.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
To them or maybe giver right.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
I mean, it's just so you still have to keep
your guard up even in person. But yeah, wow, there's
been a lot of great information. I think the number
one thing is everybody has to keep their guard up
and don't be afraid to question.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
Yes, you have to question everything, like I think we
are now, uh like I I mean some of these
need fakes are so good they have full the CEOs
companies to send millions, Like I think, you just need
to question everything. And and it's it's to some degree,
it's really sad, you know that we're live in that
kind of a world, you know, but as humans, we
(46:32):
want to trust, we want to be nice to other people,
and we're being told constantly.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
To not trust into the right Yeah right, it's yeah,
it's a.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
It's a whole different world.
Speaker 4 (46:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Anyways, thank you so much for joining us. And I'm
hoping in the near future we can get where you
and Aaron and I are all on together and talk
about some different things. I think that absolutely that would
be great. But thank you again for everything. I can't
wait for your your second edition, for your book to
(47:05):
come out.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
That's going to be.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
Honest, so it has I mean everything you read in
the first edition, is there a plus more examples more uh,
you know, more examples, some things on AI and how
I is going to change the landscape of broad and
so on and so forth. But yeah, like I bought
it a lot more examples to just kind of I
think that's how people learns, so I'll be focused on that.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
Yeah, all right, well, very good, all right, thanks Martina, Okayane,
all right, so thank you guys for joining today. Lots
of great information about romance scams, scams in general, some
red flags to look out for, some different psychology behind
the scams, different scammer techniques, how they've evolved, and you know,
(47:51):
as Martina and I just discussed, keep our guard up
and we need to question, we need to question, and
we need to very before we can begin to trust.
So don't forget our website, Roseadvocacy dot org. You'll find
our social media channels out there and all of the
episodes from the radio show or on our YouTube channel,
(48:12):
and scroll down to the bottom of the homepage and
sign up for our emailed and or mailed newsletters. It's
a way to get updated scam information and protection tips,
and also just to keep scam prevention top of mind.
So when you're contacted, because you will be contacted. You're
more apped, you have scam prevention in the back of
(48:35):
your mind, and so you're going to be better app
to take that pause and check things out, do your
research and verify instead of getting engaging and getting into
that emotional state and then making some not so good decisions.
So Brian Watson is going to be here as the
guest host next week, and I'm sure he'll have a
(48:57):
lot of great valuable information for you. So thank you
and I will see you. I will see you back
here in two weeks, but look forward to seeing Brian
next week.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
Well that's all the knowledge for this episode. Tune in
every Tuesday at eight am Pacific time on KFOURHD Radio
at KFOURHD dot com as Joyce explores a variety of knowledge.
So you have the power to make scam protection your
healthy habit and until then, feel free to reach out
to Joyce and let's talk about scams.
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational
purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional
legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted
sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to safeguard the
(00:45):
elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to
a scam. Let's talk about scams. It's the must listen
show for anyone who wants to protect themselves and their
loved ones from scams. Every Tuesday am Pacific time on
K four HD Radio, Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose, and
(01:06):
her guests. We'll provide valuable insights and practical tips on
how to recognize and protect yourself from scams. And now
here is your host, Joyce Petrowski.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Hi, everybody, welcome, back. Hope everybody had a great long
Labor Day weekend. And I'm Joyce Petrowski, founder and board
president of Rose Resources Outreach to safeguard the elderly.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
You're going to want to get on our.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Website, Roseadvocacy dot org. You'll find all of our social
media links on the homepage and scroll down to the
bottom and you'll find where you can sign up for
our emailed newsletter and our mailed newsletter, and don't forget.
You're going to want to click subscribe so you don't
miss an episode of our Let's Talk About Scams show.
And today we have a prior guest that's going to
(01:55):
join us, doctor Martina Dove. She's an expert in scam
specifically against the older adults, and she wrote a book
called The Psychology of Fraud, Persuasion and Scam Techniques. And
so today we're going to talk about more about the
(02:16):
romance scam and some different techniques that scammers use. So
let's welcome doctor Martina Dove.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Hello, everyone, nice to be here again.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Thank you Martina for for doing this again. So we
talked a little bit about it, but what are some
of the scam or techniques that scammers use as it
pertains specifically to romance scams.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Yeah, like there's you know, I would say roman scams
are quite complicated as scams because techniques tend to be
layered all the time. So you know, you have a
time where you're building rapport with a you know, a
potential victim, so you get to layer techniques over and
over and over, which like in a process that I
(03:02):
call grooming. That it's known actually in the industry is grooming.
So some of the techniques from the beginning, it's engaging
the the you know, potential victim in the conversation where
you're just getting that first commitment stage where you're exchanging
messages every day, you're talking several times a day, you're
(03:25):
building that trust and that bond. But I think, you know,
kind of like more recents comes also focused on getting
that kind of like a habit forming behavior from the victims.
So you know that you are engaging in a conversation
every day. These conversations are positive and you know the
(03:48):
victim is responding to that kind of treatment and it's
getting I don't want to use the word hooked, but
it's getting accustomed to having that attention every day and
having that friendship every day. So it starts like that,
and then as the time progresses, this camera may send
little tokens, you know, and gifts such as, you know,
(04:10):
I've heard victims tell me he sent me some money
for presents he sent me, Like one victim told me
he sent me a birthday cake. I ate it, like
it crazy, you know, for my birthday. So like, it's
not uncommon that cameras will invest a little bit of
money in the beginning to kind of send the victims
some you know, kind of like tokens of love. And
(04:31):
that serves two purpose, you know, dual purpose basically, one
you know purpose it serves is that it adds credibility
to the relationships. So if you have friends and family
questioning whether this is a real relationship because the person
has not met this person in real life, right, like,
like why would somebody be sending your gifts they're not interested?
(04:54):
So that a real right exactly, It makes it all
the more real, It makes it really credible. And then
on the other hand, you know, there's a non technique
called reciprocity. It's when somebody does as favors, we feel
obliged to do them favors, So it's really grooming the
victim to feel obliged when Ascama needs.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
A favor, return the favor, and that's usually.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
When they need the money. So so basically it starts
like that. It starts very positive, It starts with these
like topics of love. What I'm seeing recently as well
is that there are a lot of credibility c cues
whereas Comer is openly sending you know, like it's proof
of what they're telling the victim, where they're sending them
(05:42):
to websites they talk about, you know, and they create
these things right Like so let's say Escama will tell
you they work abroad and they have a company. There'll
be a website for that company. You know, they'll be
they'll be you know, they'll clone websites of banks once
uh down the road, when they're asking for money or
(06:02):
something like that, you'll credentials to log into the bank account,
which is real, it's not real application made just to
scam victims.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
And they're they're getting really good at cloning websites, all
different types of websites.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Like and I would say, you know, this is where
a new technology comes in with AI. It's very very
easy to create. You don't need a developer, you know,
need to create uh this realistic looking prototypes. You know
that mimic bil website, you know, our applications. So then
kind of like after that initial stage, you know, there
(06:42):
will be typically in Roman scamps, there will be something
called what I call a critical incident, uh somethings to
the scammer, right, like like a lot of the times
come doesn't ask for money, they will invent this incident
either something happened, you know, and this story is very
they were in the accident their business, you know, like
(07:06):
somebody is suing them and and you know their accounts
are locked. You know. I heard the story whereas Coma
said there's been an explosion on a on a construction
site that he runs and now he's been sued. You know.
So there's there's like these big, big stories and a
lot of the times they'll support it with some pictures
(07:26):
or something. Again, now with AI, it's really easy to
actually create some content that would make it credible. And yeah,
and through that, like I would say, through that incident
is where a victim will offer to help because they
feel guilty that now somebody they love by this time,
(07:47):
you know, and grooming stage can last months and months
and months, you know, and the conversations are very deep,
and these conversations are very you know, very convincing. You know,
the victim may want to help what they think is
their boyfriend by this time, or fiance or you know,
and and therefore, like a lot of the times, the
(08:08):
victim will offer them money because they feel like they
have to help, even when they feel uncomfortable, you know,
they feel like they must do it, you know, because
they you know, this person has been kind to them,
and we are brought up to exactly return favors, be
kind to people, help people. So it's really praying on
(08:30):
all of those things. And then if that doesn't work,
if you know that doesn't work, the comma may start,
like I've heard stories such as the comma started saying
they're going to kill themselves just short. You know, they'll
start blackmailing the victim in some way, either like emotionally,
or they'll start applying direct threats such as like I'm
(08:53):
going to leave this relationship. I see that you're not committed,
you know. And and by this time, a lot of
the times, victims are so committed at the money is like,
you know, even just losing the money is not, as
you know, as important to them as losing a relationship.
You know. So a lot of the times, like they
(09:14):
you know, scammers will take advantage of.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
That emotional bond, right, so it's that emotional toll afterwards,
there's that financial aspect, but a lot of times that
emotional psychological toll is much more severe, especially in this
type of scam, because they've invested so much time, you know,
with the scammer who they thought was a real well
(09:37):
they are a real person, but you know that they
believed that they were their fiance or boyfriend, girlfriend absolutely.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
And you know, one thing that I'm also seeing, like
I'm seeing like much more sophisticated techniques now than even
just a few years ago, even just five six years ago,
you know, because of the technology and because it's becoming
very very very luc I've heard stories where victims have
told me, you know, I messaged him on a dating site,
(10:07):
but his profile we had so much in common. So
I think, what's happening, what must be happening. I don't
have any proof, but I think through these stories, I've
heard enough stories now to think that perhaps commers are
joining dating sites and looking at the profiles and then
creating profiles that would appeal to very specific woman, right,
(10:28):
you know, maybe mimicking their situation or their you know,
what they're believing, what they like doing, or stuff like that,
and then you feel like you've contacted them that it's
not a scam. Do you see what I mean? So
all of the advice that we've been giving two people
to protect themselves, they are now trying to kind of
(10:50):
like bypass with the new technique.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Oh right, because we talk about that uninitiated contact and
you've got to be very very careful with that. But
if you make the count act, then you already believe
that this is a real control looking to date somebody,
not just you have to scam somebody.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
You believe you're in control and therefore you're safe. Right.
So it's I think I'm seeing more and more than
the new and newer techniques are bypassing the advice about
the old techniques. So they're getting you know, they're getting inventive.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Right, and you know it's like you mentioned lucrative to
them before, is they're going to constantly be changing their
techniques and when they see what people are out there
telling other people to do to protect themselves. Well then
they're like, all right, well we're going to use that
to our advantage.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
And absolutely, yeah, it's.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Extremely difficult to try to keep up with them, right
and or stay one step ahead of them.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
It's very difficult. And I remember total anecdote, but I
remember when I was starting my PG. I remember one
of the examiners oppose the questions, you know, because you
have to defend your idea and you have to keep
depending your idea as you as you're studying. One of
the examiners on you know, on my annual review was
(12:13):
something said to me, aren't sure worried that cameras are
going to take you know, kind of like pointers from
your PhD? And I'm like no, because once they're behind,
you know, I'm not you know, I'm I like, I
couldn't think of everything that's comes to think, you know,
you know, so I think, like, we are always one
step behind, but it's important to be one step behind
(12:35):
and not ten.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
The exactly think yeah yeah, which you know goes to
the fact about why it's so important for people to
report yes, you know, even you know, good chance you're
not going to get any of your money back. But
you still should report because it gives not only law
enforcement and prosecutors and information, is that it does get
(13:01):
disseminated down to the you know, the public, and like
we get information that we can then put out to people.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Absolutely, I would say one other thing that I keep
stressing about reporting even though and I think a lot
of people don't report because they feel nothing would be done.
So it's not it's the waste of the time. But
I say, it's not waste of your time because you know,
like think about how big movements happen. They don't happen
because one person did something. It happens because people came
(13:29):
together and you know, created a procedure for like amplifying something.
And I think when people report, the scale of the
problem becomes apparent, and the problems that are at a
high like a bally big scale get funded.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
You know.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
So I think, you know, when the government thinks there's
not such a big problem, they're not going to be
funding efforts to tackle those problems. So the more silent
we are, it plays into the hands of cammers, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Basically, Yeah, and I know just you know, in the
state of Arizona. Looking at the FBI statistics every year,
looking at you know, and that goes based on what
people report and looking at how much money they lost
in twenty twenty versus how much they lost in twenty
twenty four.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
It went up six hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Yeah, yeah, And I think percentage, it's huge percentage. And
I also think, like I do, think people are reporting more,
and I think we are raising awareness that there's nothing
to be ashamed of. This is a crime. This is
a criminal activity, you know, and I think it needs
to be reported. And I think, you know, I think
(14:45):
like perhaps an increase is in the fact that some
more people are reporting, because once upon a time, I
think the figure for reporting was only like eight percent
or something, you know, so it was just a tip
of the iceberg, you know, when I was studying some
of the fee for reporting very very low. I think
that figure is higher, but it's still not one hundred percent.
(15:06):
I would like you to be handy, and it's not close.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
It's not even close to Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Yeah, So changes over time, because the romance scam has
been around for years, right, is the majority of the
changes that you're seeing. Do you think is it because
of artificial intelligence, it's about definitely.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Artificial intelligence has enabled comers to operate cheaply. Right. So
for example, whereas cams, you know, you could spot some
like spelling mistakes, you know, and stuff like that. For example,
Scamra wasn't native English speaker, you know, and for example,
when they sent you an email, it wouldn't be perfectly beautiful.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Looking and the bad grammar anymore.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Exactly. Now that all is smoothed over by you know,
you can use chagipity free, you know. And I think
depending on how like I know chagipity, Like if you'll
say to you know, chagipity, hey, can you write me
a fishing email? You won't do it, but you can
trick it into writing a phishing email or tiding up
(16:15):
your email and making it nice, nicely, you know better drammatically.
So that's one aspect of it. And then there's like
these fakes have become so good. You know, you can
fake video, you can fake photographs, you can fake a
rail of photographs. Whereas this comma, you know, like let's
say just ten years ago, comma would have to go
(16:35):
on somebody's Facebook adam as a friend, then steal their
photos to them like be able to send some photos.
Now they can just generate, like you know, they can
generate lots of photos that are the same person, you know,
in different situations. So it's definitely adding to their credibility.
And then you know, as I said, I'm seeing a
(16:55):
really big uptick in credible like the extreme credibility cues
that I call like and that's where a victim, you know,
the critical incident happens right like somebody you know, and
then the person says, look, you know, do you might
account log into my account? Can you log into my
account and just transfer money into that account from my account?
(17:19):
And then they give the log in details. The victim things,
they're in a Bank of America accountant. They not, they're
in a prototype or a website that mimics them America.
They see, this person has lots of money, and you know,
and a lot of the times the victims like when
they when they were going through that thing, and that's
(17:41):
purely done so that the trust is built up. The
victims said to me, you know, like I felt almost
privileged because he's trusting me to go into his bank
account and send this money. And there was lots of
money in this account, So I felt privileged. I thought,
this is like we are really truly a partners, you know.
So I think like those kind of things, more sophisticated
(18:02):
techniques in terms of like apping these credibility things that
add to trust, right, like that kind of build the trust.
So I'm seeing a lot of that, and I think
that's down to the AI because before it would cost
like you know, it would cause this camera to build
these things. Now it's easier and cheaper. And then also
(18:22):
there's organized coming compounds now, right, so like it's a business.
It's like coming is run like a business. Whereas it
used to be a lone person here and there maybe
a small organized group. Now there's like you know, there's
like it was, Yeah, it's serral, it's I mean, I mean,
(18:46):
I'm I'm not laughing. I'm just like and sometimes I'm
even impressed just how how serious they took the descrime
and how brazen they are in how they operate. But yeah,
I think all of that combined, you know, and then
you have probably smart people like running it's supporting other
people that are coming and you know, and so on.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
So yeah, definitely, So you mentioned you know about the
scammer showing the victim that they trust them. Does that
psychologically do you think make the victim want to then
more readily trust the scammer?
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Definitely? I mean, I mean think about this, right, like
we believe what we see and hear, right, and and
you know, like if you see somebody's bank account, right,
this is the person telling you, hey, I'm rich. Right,
this is a person showing you the are rige. But
you've seen it with your own eyes. You think you've
seen it with your own eyes, right, So of course
you're going to trust it, you know. And they do
(19:50):
that before you even ask them. So like what's smart
about this whole thing is that kind I won't even
wait for you to say, how do I know you're
blah blah blah. They are offering these credibility cues before
the victim even has a warning sign, you know. So
it's really it's like really sophisticated manipulation. Whereas in a past,
(20:12):
maybe you know, a victim would just say, hey, how
do I know, like I don't want to send you
the money, how do I know you bought a train
ticket with that or something? Right? And then there would
maybe fake a train ticket or plane ticket or something.
Now it's like the faking bank accounts and you'll send
like literally you are sending the money. You are like
making a wire transfer and having a process that any
(20:35):
bank will have the meaning that you know, so why
wouldn't you trust that? You know? And and and it's
only kind of like when when a scam happens and
and a victim has realized that they you know, some
some victims have taken screenshots and then they realized that
maybe the website wasn't exactly so but even you know,
(20:56):
even some of the legitimate companies are using these proxy
websites to send emails like mail champ and you know,
so the links are not always coming from them.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
A real we use mail champ and we send out
our news.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
So hard to know, like it's really really hard to
know sometimes, you know, and Amazon has all these spools
not spools, but they have a lot of different types
of kind of like uh, you know, ends of their
emails or their you know, web addresses for different pages,
and you know, it's very easy to just know, yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
What was it?
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Well, right, so like when they they put on the
scammer puts on the screen their bank account, right, your
I think your eyes automatically go towards the dollar amount
because they're trying to show you that they are rich
or you know that they have not.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Even yeah, it's not even though they show you joyce.
They send you a link to the website, can give
you all evidentials to log in from several victims basically
the camera. You know, I'm in like Emirates, Like my
bank account is not allowing me to log in. Do
(22:10):
you mind sending these business associates so that I avoid
the legal things? Like they send a link to the
bank's website, right, but it's not it's a link to
a They give the victim details to log in. The
log in is mimicked. The victim logs in, the victims
(22:30):
doing it on their computer and they're seeing it. You know,
like these prototypes act like you know, like you know,
in production we call them, you know, when you're making products,
we call them feature flags. They behave like a real product, right,
but it's not yet in production, right, So so it's
kind of like they can create these prototypes that look
(22:52):
real and behave real and behave like a normal product.
It's very difficult to tell that it's not real. Yeah,
very difficult.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Well you have trained in that development part of it
to know what to look for, and the majority of
the people aren't, no.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Because you wouldn't. Why would you? You know, Like I
mean when you log in onto your bank account, like
you're not paying attention to every single time in my
new detail, right, Like it's a routine activity, right, So
it's like, why wouldn't you? I think it's it's that
moment of like being caught doing routine things that you're
(23:28):
just not you know, why would you doubt somebody who's
giving you the credentials tools?
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Right, they're credentials, right, because it's like, oh, they're supposed
to keep that confidential, but they must really trust me.
And if they're creating me this information, well it's.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Fay sinister and like that that didn't use to exist.
So I'm not surprised that people are, you know, convinced
that this is a real relationship. I mean, if somebody
gave me logins to their bank account, I would think, well, Okay,
this person really trusts me, and then like I would
(24:03):
feel bad not trusting them, you know too.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Right, right? That reciprocal.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
But so.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I think when romance scams first started coming out, they
the scammers would target the older adults, the seniors. Are
they still the most vulnerable to these types of scams or.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
I think not just for romance scams, but also to scams.
I see a lot of like, elderly people specifically get
a lot of scams for sweet stakes and things like
that that comes from like these you know, two organizations
that are trusted or that they the lottery and stuff
(24:49):
like that, and or some like I think I can't
remember what was the name of that, but like some
kind of you know, organization that typically runs this switch takes.
They'll mimic letters for that, so they're targeting people with
letters as well as emails and stuff like that. So
I would say the elderly people, I think the you
know why I think elderly people get targeted a lot.
(25:12):
I think it's down to a couple of things. One
is that, you know, perhaps they may be not as
aware because they're not online so much, so they may
not be aware of the new things, so you're catching
them unaware. They typically have money because they reach the
point in their life when they own their own houses
for one case, you know, and when I say elderly,
(25:35):
I don't often, you know, like they can spend you know,
I think I would say older rather than elderly, you know,
because like I think, you know, people are you know,
can be older, but not necessarily completely vulnerable or anything
like that. So, you know, but like you are the
point of your life that actually you're a lucrative victim,
So why not invest time in that victim, you know,
(25:58):
because you can actually get a lot of money, especially
with the speak Butcherings cams, with the with the romance fraud,
you know, the amount of money tends to be larger.
But really anybody is vulnerable. You know. We're seeing now's
extortion targeting children, you know, and again it's it's becoming
(26:21):
very prominent exactly. So it's like I don't think there's
an age group that isn't targeted. I think it's really
depends what types of scams are sent to. I would
say romans scams tend to target people that are you know,
of an age where you may have gotten divorced, you know,
and your house or you lost your spouse. Yeah, and
(26:44):
I think this is where you're really vulnerable because you know,
maybe you were out of the dating scene for a while,
and therefore you're not aware of what's going on, right,
Like like somebody else who's actively dating, you know, would
maybe be aware. So it's kind of like trying to
figure out like who is more vulnerable to what and
(27:05):
then just hitting that demographic more aggressively. And there's a
say that a young person wouldn't be hit with the
Roman scams. Please don't quote me like anybody's vulnerable, always be,
always be watching for scammers.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Yeah, everybody is vulnerable to any scam, right, It's just
or I should say anybody is a target to any scam.
It's just some age populations have a tendency to be
a little bit more vulnerable to specific scams, right. And
like you said, you know, especially with the older adults,
you would have somebody that's maybe been married for fifty
(27:40):
plus years and they lost their spouse. Well, that creates
a huge loneliness. And then if they're not connected to
their community, they're even more lonely, which is one of
the you know, red flags for them. But this, you know,
the SCAMMERSPC like if they're on a dating site or
(28:01):
they're on Facebook and their relationship status is widow or
widower and they have that and their you know, or
they've been talking about on Facebook about the loss of
their spouse and all of that.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I think we give out way too.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Much information online, personal information. That scammers are constantly trolling
all of these sites to gather information. And with AI, right,
I mean that they can just plug in I'm looking
for these keywords.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
And I wouldn't even say like that. I would say
we posit that we likeink about how many data breaches
have happened, and boy kids of information, you know. So
for example, it's a known fact that when people become
la widowed, or they suffer some medical you know, trauma
(28:55):
or accident or illness, this is where the scammers start
contacting you. This is not because they're trolling the Facebook,
because that would be two time consuming. It's because they're
stealing data. They're purchasing data, you know, and some of
these organizations are selling data, you know, they're selling our data.
So it's kind of like I think it comes more nowadays.
(29:16):
I think once upon a time, probably now nowadays probably
comes from just being purchased for very little money and
then just like you're being hit, you know, because these
things are recorded in registries and and you know, some
of this information is public information, you know, so it's
kind of you know, like I would say, smart cameras
(29:37):
don't invest a lot of time trolling anything. They already
have that, you know, they can easily purchase. I think
like some of credit card information can be purchased for
like pennies, you know, or sense you know.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
So it's kind of like I mean, like a lot
of times.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
So this is interesting when you mentioned credit card information.
My husband and I recently were out this new ice
cream shop in the area and I used one of
our credit cards to pay and it wanted me to
like sign up for rewards or whatever, so I hate yes,
(30:15):
and it immediately had all of my personal information.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
For the rewards.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I didn't have to input it anymore. And it was
like that had to have come from the credit card.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
It's it's not just a credit card like think of it,
you know. And I've done a research project when I
was working for Microsoft, I think, you know how on
on data. And one of the interesting things that that
I realized when I was doing some research on kind
of how how a data gets uh sent and shared
(30:49):
and so on and support. So like businesses will collect
as much data about you as they possibly can, because
they can target you with marketing things and they hit
exactly advertising but not advertising offers. Right, if they hit
you with the right offer, you know, it's a it's
a legal is coming in a sense.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Right.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
So so basically, the more they know about you, the
more they can actually target you with things that will
be of interest, right the way you can purchase something.
So so what happens is that let's say you know,
like a shop or not to name any names, but
let's say you're shopping with a certain shop. Are you
ask shop or you know, a larger a department store,
but the department stores what you're spending money on, they
(31:33):
probably have kept some information on like maybe you loggin
video number for rewards or something like that, so they
know what you're purchasing, right, but they you know, maybe
they know what you're purchasing and they know your like
a laptop I D and your IP address if you're
purchasing online. Right, So if I was that store, I
(31:54):
don't have other information like who are you're voting for
or who are you like? I don't know other stuff.
So they that they can go to a data broker
who has collected other information about you, and like you're
going to websites where you're reading news, or you're going
on different social media sites with the same laptop with
the same IP address, with the same laptop with the
(32:15):
same ID, and they will join the data right like
bio laptop I D right like your your you know
computer ID, and they will create what it's known as
golden red card. It's basically everything about you. And there
are data brokers that have some pieces of information. The
(32:35):
companies can go, can you tell me more about the
person living in this IB address with this computer. They
will then say, well, the same IP address as this computer,
and that computer is browsing this, that and the other.
Because a lot of the times when I'm like, let's
say browsing as still order, but my husband gets advertisements
where still order, and I know they join the joining
(32:58):
our data just be address, you know, because it's sending
to a different computer like with a different but like
that's how companies and legitimate companies do it all the time.
They purchase data, they join data so that they know
everything about you. Because if they know everything about you,
they can then hit you with things that are interesting.
(33:19):
And how is do to saying, you know, I mean
no doubt.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
That they have access to buy that data, right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
So it's interesting. I try a lot when I get.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
On websites and it comes up and says we track cookies.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
You know you.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Sometimes it'll give you the option to reject all except
for the necessary ones, or manage them. And I'll either
reject all or I'll go in and manage and I
turn everything off. And it's because it's different by the company.
Sometimes they have everything turned on and you have to
turn off everything except for the strictly necessary ones. So
(33:57):
if you turn everything off except strictly necessary, then is that,
like by law, they're not supposed to be in essence
tracking you and what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
I think in America, I think some states. I think
California has a law, but I don't know that most
of the states don't really have good privacy laws. It's
really yeah, it's stayed by state. I know in Europe
they would have to abide by it, but they don't.
I still get like I lived in London for a
long time and I still get like random emails, somebody
(34:29):
sold my data even though you know I didn't, you know,
they have to abide by JDPR, you know regulation where
like they have to They can't just like contact me
unless I've done business with them, but they purchased something
like you know, from someone and and so like I think,
you know a lot of the times, you know. What
(34:50):
I find as well is that smaller businesses will abide
by that because they're just two of and then a
larger businesses will will still being yeah exactly, or if
they don't get like even the strict cookies, like the
cookies for performance website performance, right, they still track your
IP address, they still truck some of the information, right like,
(35:11):
so they can still join that information. Go to a
data broker and say, hey, we have these these customers
we don't have like you know, just give me a
golden record on that, right and they'll you know, so
a lot of our data is out there, you know.
And I think it's easy to purchase. I don't think
it's very expensive. And actually when you go to websites
(35:32):
for these data brokers, you can buy packages people who
like buying for Fourth of July, people who like Christmas,
people who you know, all of the purchase data is
collected and curated, so that like for certain things that
can hit people that actually have previously purchased, you know,
purchase a lot of Christmas so buy lots of Christmas
(35:53):
ornaments every single year. I go overboard, right, I'm probably
on some list for that.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Yeah, And you know that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
So that brings up a question I've been reading articles
about and they're usually subscription based where you can pay
companies that will monitor your data online and wipe it.
You know, as they see it, they'll they'll get it off.
So it's and it's normally a paid subscription. Is that
(36:23):
two different things what we were just talking about what's
collected on a website and then could be sold versus
what is online?
Speaker 4 (36:33):
I don't know. I mean like it really depends like
how you use it. I don't know. I think to
some degree, maybe they'll have some success requesting that your
data is removed, but as you browse again, it's on
there somebody, it's on there again, and you know they're
collecting things on you again. And also I think a
(36:53):
lot of like I think when you're thinking about legitimate businesses,
I'm not worried that notes from a target has information
on what kind of things I bought in the stores
or what kind of website I'm reading news on, Like
I know they're not going to do anything bad about that,
you know, Like it's it's just you know, and the
worst they're going to send me some advertisement, right like,
and that's fine, I will purchase or one purchase this
(37:15):
up to me. But I think what I'm worried about
is a lot of that data is also on dark
web that you can e raise, you know, and then
it's it's more difficult to manage, and that's where criminals
are purchasing that data. So I do not yeah, exactly,
So it really depends, like I feel like we have
lost of war on data privacy. Just be very careful,
(37:38):
like just be aware that you know, a lot of
what it is on you know, what you do online
is tracked in some way, and yeah, like it's it's
very much. Yeah, Like I do know what degree you
could remove all of your data from everywhere.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Including right because like you said, you know, you could
have cookies enabled out there with a company that you
haven't done business within ten years, but they're still there
and they're still tracking you.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
And it's not just even like I think even when
you OpEd out of the cookies or you know, like
it's it's it's like, I think there are there are
businesses that actually data is the business. They screate for
data and data, you know. But I think a lot
of these datas as well, like the legitimate companies keep
on us, has been has been breached and stolen, and
(38:33):
so it exists in another universe that I don't know,
I don't know, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah, the dark web.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
And I've noticed in the last year I've been seeing
more data breaches to health companies, so whether it's an
insurance company, whether it's some sort of like I think
the most recent one I saw was with the dialysis
center was breached. And you know, that's a lot of information,
(39:00):
a lot of personal information out there.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
Yeah, no, it's it's really like I think that worries
me as well. And I think a lot of the
companies as well done abide by the hip either like
they you know, you have to have a control over
whether you want that information to be shared even you know,
like for example, I go to a spa, you know,
(39:24):
in my local gym for a massage and they have
a form they should allow me to opt out of
them sharing what I share with them, but the form
is always broken and you can only accept and not deny.
And so I'm always very aware that I'm just not
like I'm I'm so suspicious that I'm just not truthful.
(39:45):
Sometimes I guard my date of birth. I guard my
you know, like like if you know, I remember like
some years ago I was subscribed to a magazine in
England and like that subscription wanted my day to birth.
Why I just I have a fake I have a
fake data birth sometimes like I will put you know.
(40:06):
So it's kind of like I think it's on a
need to know basis, Like you don't need to and
you don't need to be completely honest with your medical data.
Like some applications that you know end up you know,
being used for you to be targeted by like some products,
(40:26):
you know. So so I feel like I think we are.
I don't know there is a good way to protect
a data, you know. So just my my advice would
be to just be careful with what you share online. Uh,
and and kind of even just share online in terms
of what seems like a legitimate company, not just on Facebook,
(40:47):
you know, sharing your stuff.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Right and and you know, like you said, always always question,
you know why, don't don't be afraid to ask, you know,
why do you need this information? And I often tell
people if the response is, well it's a question on
the form, that's not an answer. That just might be
that the person you're asking has no idea I know
(41:09):
information is really needed or not right.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
Sometimes you can't even you're checking out, like at the store,
and they'll want you or like your email address, like
why just can I just forget a receipt you need?
You know, Sometimes it's like, oh, but they prefer us
to have your email address. Well, I prefer not to
give it, you.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Know, right now now I think they're you know, they're
they're using it as we can email you your receipt
because a lot of people are paperlesss they'd rather have
the receipt emailed. Well, then, now now the company has
your email address, right, that might not.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
It's fine, I mean, email address is pretty benign. But
then you get you get bombarded and you know, or
like your phone and they're like, oh no, we would
never text you. And the next day you get.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Right, you get attacked. Well, we're going to text.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
You when things go on sale and when there's ads right,
it's yeah. Yeah, so wow. So outside of data privacy
and being careful of what you share online, are there
other ways that we can protect ourselves when specifically regarding
around like romance scams.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Yeah, I would say, like, I mean, I know it's
super basic, but I think in the age of AI
right now, with the fact that people can fake videos
pretty realistically, I would say, like, just have a rule
to not engage with people that are not in your
hometown and they don't want to meet, like try and
(42:41):
meet straight away, like, you know, if this is a
real relationship, if it is a real, real thing, Like
if somebody contacts you and it's comings are very good,
it'll contact you and say, I'm just on a business
trip right now. I'm like some coming back next month.
Just you know, don't don't engage in conversations two deep conversations,
just say oh great, like it seems like we have
(43:01):
a lot in common, but like, let me talk when
you're back. When you're back, you know. And I think
I think, like it's it's almost impossible to give any
other advice because I think once you get emotionally involved,
it's sometimes too late to actually give any rational advice.
But I think, like with AI becoming so good and
(43:23):
creating really good deep fakes, I don't know that you
can even be sure when you're speaking to somebody on
a video that that's the real pace exactly.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
That that's because you have to know the nuances to
look for, right. I recently had to verify myself and
I had to do a video selfie and you know,
they said, okay, turn your head to the right, turn
your head to the left, and I do that a
few times, and it was monitoring, you know, and so
(43:53):
you know, it's it's interesting the advances that they're making
verify somebody.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Definitely, I mean, like like like AI, it's good, but
like sometimes when you like like lift your hands or
something like that, it can kind of like go a
little bit weird. So like I mean, you could, like
that's one thing, if you're talking to somebody on a video,
you can ask them to lift the hands to take
(44:22):
off the background, or you know, to kind of like
you know, put something in front of them, like a
book or something like that. And sometimes they can give
you an idea whether there's a filter over the video.
But I I, you know, I'm so impressed with how
far AI has come just in a year or two
that I would say, I wouldn't even like say that
(44:43):
that's safe. Come, let's just meet in local Starbucks, right.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
Yeah, right, definitely, because so many things can be faked.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
I know. It's it's like with the AI, I would say,
And and that's something I've just updated my book. The
second edition is coming in October or November, I think.
And one of the things that I talk about is like,
how AI is going to really distort what a reality
is because reality is shaped by what we hear and
(45:16):
what we see, and both can be faked by AI.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Now exactly right.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Voices can be cloned, right, places can be cloned, So
how do we how will we ever know? Right? Unless
you're standing in front of.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
Me, exactly and you still have to keep your guard
up when you're meeting somebody in person, absolutely right, because
they still can you know, it happens unfortunately all the time. Right,
We're trying to tell you something you don't need, you know,
They're they're trying to, you know, develop a friendship or
(45:50):
a love interest in order to have you sign everything over.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
To them or maybe giver right.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
I mean, it's just so you still have to keep
your guard up even in person. But yeah, wow, there's
been a lot of great information. I think the number
one thing is everybody has to keep their guard up
and don't be afraid to question.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
Yes, you have to question everything, like I think we
are now, uh like I I mean some of these
need fakes are so good they have full the CEOs
companies to send millions, Like I think, you just need
to question everything. And and it's it's to some degree,
it's really sad, you know that we're live in that
kind of a world, you know, but as humans, we
(46:32):
want to trust, we want to be nice to other people,
and we're being told constantly.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
To not trust into the right Yeah right, it's yeah,
it's a.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
It's a whole different world.
Speaker 4 (46:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Anyways, thank you so much for joining us. And I'm
hoping in the near future we can get where you
and Aaron and I are all on together and talk
about some different things. I think that absolutely that would
be great. But thank you again for everything. I can't
wait for your your second edition, for your book to
(47:05):
come out.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
That's going to be.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
Honest, so it has I mean everything you read in
the first edition, is there a plus more examples more uh,
you know, more examples, some things on AI and how
I is going to change the landscape of broad and
so on and so forth. But yeah, like I bought
it a lot more examples to just kind of I
think that's how people learns, so I'll be focused on that.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
Yeah, all right, well, very good, all right, thanks Martina, Okayane,
all right, so thank you guys for joining today. Lots
of great information about romance scams, scams in general, some
red flags to look out for, some different psychology behind
the scams, different scammer techniques, how they've evolved, and you know,
(47:51):
as Martina and I just discussed, keep our guard up
and we need to question, we need to question, and
we need to very before we can begin to trust.
So don't forget our website, Roseadvocacy dot org. You'll find
our social media channels out there and all of the
episodes from the radio show or on our YouTube channel,
(48:12):
and scroll down to the bottom of the homepage and
sign up for our emailed and or mailed newsletters. It's
a way to get updated scam information and protection tips,
and also just to keep scam prevention top of mind.
So when you're contacted, because you will be contacted. You're
more apped, you have scam prevention in the back of
(48:35):
your mind, and so you're going to be better app
to take that pause and check things out, do your
research and verify instead of getting engaging and getting into
that emotional state and then making some not so good decisions.
So Brian Watson is going to be here as the
guest host next week, and I'm sure he'll have a
(48:57):
lot of great valuable information for you. So thank you
and I will see you. I will see you back
here in two weeks, but look forward to seeing Brian
next week.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
Well that's all the knowledge for this episode. Tune in
every Tuesday at eight am Pacific time on KFOURHD Radio
at KFOURHD dot com as Joyce explores a variety of knowledge.
So you have the power to make scam protection your
healthy habit and until then, feel free to reach out
to Joyce and let's talk about scams.
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com