Carnival Belongs to Every (Body)| Ft. Hugh Morris

This week we are talking di tings with one of the most recognized photographers in the Carnival industry, Hugh Morris.

In this episode we explore Hugh's childhood in Brooklyn and Grenada, how his heritage and cultural experiences have shaped his connection to photography, and how his work transcends traditional carnival imagery, portraying women not just as subjects, but as storytellers and cultural narrators. 

Hugh shares insights into his creative process, the importance of inclusivity in the Carnival industry, and the role of photography in celebrating diverse body types and complexions. He also shares his favorite moments from this year's Spicemas, specifically Jouvert and Soca Monarch, and offers sound advice to aspiring creatives.

Whether you're a photography enthusiast, curious about the intersection of photography and culture, or need a little encouragement to pursue your creative passion, this episode is for you!

So grab your tea, coffee, or a glass of wine, and let’s talk di tings! 
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If you enjoyed the episode, leave us a 5-star rating, share this episode, and follow Let’s Talk Di Tings on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.   

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Some stories are told with words, others are told with light.
For photographer Hugh Morris, the camera has always been more
than just a tool. It's been a way of remembering, honoring,
and reimagining the world. Although he was born and raised

(00:22):
in Brooklyn, New York, most of Hugh's childhood summers were
spent in Grenada, immersed in the beautiful colors, rhythms, and
traditions of the Spice Isle. Those childhood visits were likely
the foundation for the palette that would one day shape
his artistry. Now as a celebrated photographer, Hugh has become

(00:46):
one of the most recognized photographers capturing Caribbean carnivals around
the world. His photography is rooted in inclusivity, honoring women
of every shape and size, and reframing beauty as something expansive, radiant,

(01:06):
and unapologetic. In this episode, we discuss his deep love
of his Grenadian heritage and how it continues to inspire
his work, the importance of inclusivity in the Caribbean carnival industry.
This year's Spice Mass specifically Juvet and Soga Monarch, and

(01:30):
so much more so. Grab your tea, coffee, or a
glass of wine and Let's Talk the Things. Hello everyone,
Welcome back to Let's Talk the Things, where we discuss
personal growth, travel, music, beauty and wellness while encouraging you

(01:54):
to live fearlessly and fabulously. I'm your host, Ash and
this week we are talking to Things with a Grenadian
American photographer whose lens captures more than festivity. It reveals
the essence of self culture and frames Caribbean women not

(02:15):
as subjects, but as storytellers. Hugh Morris, Hi, Hugh, are
you good afternoon.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
I'm first I'm gonna say, pop up up on. I
like that intro.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
I like that.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
I'm telling you I'm impressing, but you want to.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Here hilarious, Welcome, thank you for coming, Thank.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
You for having me, Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Of course, of course, so for our first time guest,
we do a little segment like kind of like an icebreaker, right,
and for persons listening for the first time, we begin
each episode with our listener's favorite segment, and it's called
that no sound safe. So I'm going to read messages

(03:05):
or social media posts that listeners sent in and if
you think it sounds crazy or a little bit concerning,
you'd say that no sounds safe and explain why. And
if you agree, you say you agree or that sounds
safe and explain why makes sense?

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Okay, makes sense?

Speaker 1 (03:22):
All right? Cool, all right, So let's see the first
person said, having a brain and beauty is nice, but
you know what's nicer having manners.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
That sounds safe. Definitely, yeah, very that sounds safe. I
mean from a West Indian perspective, or growing up in
a West Indian household, we were actually like talk manners
or it wasn't embedded in us.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
To discipline exactly, like you had no choice, you know
what I mean. And I find that we talked about
it on an episode a while ago, maybe even last season,
that it's very frustrating even if you were honestly, even
if you were born in America, even though I was not,
I find that a lot of my friends that were
born in America because like you said, they grew up

(04:12):
in a Caribbean household, it's frustrating when they go out
into the world with other cultures and they don't have
manners because you're looking at them like, wait, you just
walked into a room and didn't speak like huh, you
know what I mean. Like it's almost like you feel
like you're living in a different world, but then you
realize it doesn't make them like bad people or anything.
It's just everybody grows up differently, but it's so embedded

(04:34):
in us. Like you said, it's almost like odd to
see people not you know, have manners in that way.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
I think you really see it as well when you
grow up in probably like your twenties and your thirties,
you really get to see who had those manners instilled
in them.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yes, oh my gosh, I guess.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
I guess would come over to your house and just
open up your fridge or walk in with their shoes
say things of that nature. You know, it's true, Definitely,
definitely it's true.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
And I also think that a lot of the rules
and you know, regulations if you will, that our parents had,
you can tell the persons that had those versus those
that didn't. And I don't think it meant that we
didn't get in trouble or persons that had it weren't
likely to get in trouble. Same way, you know what
I mean, Because we all were kids and we all
wanted to fit in and all of that stuff. But

(05:27):
I just find that as adults, you see it reflected
more because I really think that that's something that we
should value more. Because if you talk about the age
we're at now, where you know you might be looking
for a lifetime partner or someone to have children with
or things like that, that's what's going to raise your
children and that's what's going to determine the trajectory of

(05:48):
how you live and what your children learn is that
person's character and that you know that person's ability to
think even manners are important.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
And I think it touched on some than I was
really golden as well. We find ourselves speaking in the
voice of our parents in the back of our head.
But I think that's really just like a sensitivity of
the awareness of other people's feelings. So people who have
good manners really have a high sensitivity for how other

(06:20):
people may feel in that surrounding area. So yeah, manners
of our key man manners overlooks any day.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Absolutely absolutely, I one hundred percent agree. Okay, all right.
The next person said love is a form of generational wealth.
We don't talk about enough.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Agree.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, same agree.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
That sound right, And in the place of love and
generational repeat the quote one more time for me.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Love is a form of generational wealth that we don't
talk about enough.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Absolutely, so be living in a time now where it's
all about the self. Yes, you know, and personal gain
and you know, personal advancement. But definitely I believe love
is one of those things where it's like if you
have that, especially if you're surrounded by it, you're a
wealthy person. Money or no money.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Oh I love that. Yeah, that's so true. And I
think that you hit on something really important that we
live in a time where a lot of persons are
about self, and I find that sometimes some of those
persons can think they're fooling you into believing that they're
for you, even though their intentions are for themselves, you

(07:38):
know what I mean. And in Jamaica, we have a
saying called play fool to catch wise. Right, So sometimes
you'll go along with it, right, you'll go along with
it to say like, Okay, yeah you think I'm a dummy,
that's fine, you know, you go along. But there are
other times where you're thinking, like that selfishness it doesn't
pay off in the end because you're the only person
you're fooling is yourself. You can't fool other people. When

(08:01):
it comes to that.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
Absolutely absolutely. I think I was reading at one point
and I came across as saying that said something like
use money and love people, but don't love money and
use people.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yes, yes, that's so true. That's so true. Or even
just love, you know, anything else, attention, fame, anything else.
You know, everybody needs somebody, but it's the right people
that you need. You don't just need anybody and everybody
around you.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Absolutely, absolutely, no, very true.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, definitely, definitely. Okay. The next person said, sometimes I
just agree with people so that they can stop talking
to me.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
I would say, I would say that in a sound.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Right, Yeah, that sounds.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
I think. I think that's a New York thing. Em
better than me as well, Like sometimes you'd hear me
say something like that, it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
Crazy, you guys do crazy.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
And it's as a means that, like you're trying to
get the person to catch the hint, like oh god,
they're not listening. But I think it eggs on people
to continue pouring in. Yes, yes, sometimes you gotta tell
them like, hey, I left some clothes in the dry
I gotta call you.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah, you have to. You have to exit stage left.
And I think you hit on two good points right,
because one everybody I know from New York, once they
hit that, that's crazy. You already know the conversation is
a wrap. So that's so true. That's hilarious. But also,
like I guess, it lends to the idea that we

(09:43):
should be able to be more direct and doesn't mean
you have to be rude. But that means you're not
setting a boundary, and that means you're putting yourself And
I know it sounds a little deep, but if let's
just say you're having a hard day and I'm calling
you now and I'm telling you all these things that
happened to me, you may not be able to take
that right. But like you talked about earlier, that self talk,

(10:07):
maybe even from you know, our Caribbean upbringing, is like, okay, well,
I don't want them to think I don't want to
hear their problems, or you know, I don't want them
to think I'm a bad person, so let me just listen. Meanwhile,
you're getting inundated with all of this information while you're
already going through something, right, So you have to learn
to figure out ways to assert those boundaries. And again,

(10:28):
doesn't mean we have to be rude. Or abrasive. But
you can't allow somebody to just pour on you, especially
if you're dealing with something as well, you know. So
there's like a.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Batclor in that.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
But yeah, I agree that. So see.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
That.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
It's so hilarious. Oh my god. Okay, And the last one,
the person said, calling me when you're sad because the
people you're enjoyed life with can't pour into you like
I can, is no longer on my roster. Be safe though,
that's safe.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
That's safe to me. Yes, I agree. I think we
all have to have to reach a point where we
realize where we're being, you especially for our energy, right,
And sometimes it's not what you give but what you're
willing to receive. Some people really want to pour into
you and really want to rest, you know, ahead on
your shoulder. And I mean, you know I'm not the

(11:30):
person that you would call solely for that. You know,
I too have feelings. Suppose I'm in that mood right, right,
and I need a shoulder to lean on, and I
can't have your shoulder on your head on mine, right exactly,
I have nobody to pour into as well.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
So yeah, exactly, you know, I think it's funny because
that wasn't even intentional. But I think it just is
a culmination of everything in this segment that was brought
up as far as just like asserting boundaries and you know,
persons maybe pretending that they, let's say, want to be
your friend, but they really just want your energy. Relationships

(12:05):
are friendships As you get older, especially if you reflect
on like relationships or friendships you've had, you realize, wait
a minute, that was really one sided, you know, or
like true, what was I? Why was I doing this
all the time? And that person didn't even want me around.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
I think also a lot of people who are known
for being like empathetic, they have issues with like immediacy,
so they can't really express in the moment that hey,
full stop, I have a boundary here, Please give me
my space or I can't take on anymore. They're so
used to carrying the burden or the load of others,
whether it be emotional, spiritual, or providing for others that

(12:45):
they really can't express when their cup run.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Is over, that's not so true.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
I have enough. So I think we all need to
start practicing immediacy in the here and now versus reflecting
on when things went bad. And really trying to avoid
those as emotional triggers in the future.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
I love that, Yes, it meant that. I love that. Okay, great,
well see that was harmless. Just one that nassaund safe,
that was harmless. You made it through. Congratulations, Thank you,
thank you. So now we're really going to talk the things.

(13:25):
So I know that you are from Brooklyn, but your
heritage is Grenadian. And as I told you offline on
this show, you are Grenadian. That's how I thank you.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
You you.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
So that's what we're gonna say here. So can you
tell us you know your experience with Grenada, meaning did
you go there as a child? Did you go there
for summers? Like what was your early life and what
was your early life with Grenada or like associated with
the country, Like how did it shape who you are?

Speaker 2 (13:57):
So Brooklyn born, born in King's Aunty Hospital. I think
growing up in public school, especially like in Flatbush, you
have this great divide in the nineties, so you had
the American kids on one side and then you had
like the West Indian kids on the other. But even
within that subculture of like the West Indies being you know,

(14:21):
a strong presence in elementary, junior high you had the
kids that came directly from the Islands and migrated here,
and then you had quote unquote the Yankees. So it's
kind of like you really didn't fit in totally to
that whole West Indian circle because people would be like,
way you're born and you'd be like, yeah, I was
born in Brooklyn and they're like, no, you can't be.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
You can't be Jamaica, right right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
You're stuck. You're stuck on this fence where it's like,
when I go home, this is all I know. Right.
I grew up on Soca being played twenty four to seven.
I grew up on roots reggae being played on Sundays
or Mom Clean and the whole you know, Coco tea
fill in the air on a Monday morning. Tuesday morning,
you know, my Lord is kind of thing, right, And

(15:09):
then and then you go to school and it's like
this culture class where it's like you can't really bring
cook food from home. I don't know if you can
remember those days.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
What can I They.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Call you poor when you're bringing cook food from home.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Oh my gosh, yes, I remember.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
You're kind of you're kind of sort of forced to
do that code switch and you learn when to turn
on the dialect, when to turn it off, who to
listen to hip hop and dancehall and soca and these
kind of things around, and eventually now you're caught in
this loop whereas every summer my mother is bringing me

(15:45):
to Grenada and the stay becomes a little bit longer
each time, as long as she can possibly send me
to kind of immerse me in the culture. So I
would say probably from like a kindergarten age right up
to like an eighth d I'm in Grenada every year
twice a year.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Wow, oh my gosh, as long as a child correct, So.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
As long as school give holiday. My mother is like,
I know exactly what I said, Yes, without apology.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
That's hilarious, And I love that. That's beautiful because it
keeps you in touch with your culture, right, that's very important.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
Absolutely absolutely, But it also gives you an extension of
communication of cuisine of you know, you hear different things
like I heard sounds when I was younger that I
didn't hear through like hip hop or mainstream American pop culture. Right,
It's like you get to see different colors as a kid.

(16:45):
That's how I kind of explained that analogy. That's beautiful, soul.
I would tell people often, like the Crayola crayon box
that you grew up with. When I traveled to the
West and East, you got to see things differently, like
yellow is not just straight yellow, yeah, mango, we have line.
You know, it's different houses painted past the yellow. So

(17:06):
you got to really experience from a creative perspective very early.
Those influences kind of blended very well for me.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
I love that. And what part of Grenada are you from?
So this year I've become like more familiar with the
parishes and things like that. So you know, in a
few more months, I'm just going to start telling people
that I am also Grenadian.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
So, like what parishes your family from? You know, those
kind of details I would love to know absolutely.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
So my family is from Saint George, Bigger Point Life,
so a part of Saint George's called Fontanoy, we call
it Point. And my father is from mont Mars.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
So, okay, is more when country or towne.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
It's more so town. I wouldn't consider it country. Okay,
I wouldn't considered country, but I mean that's all I know.
My entire extended family is Grenadian. So it's kind of like,
even if I were to reach out, I don't know,
two or three branches out on the family tree, it
would still take me back to Grenada.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
I love that. That's so beautiful. Wow, that's amazing, amazing, amazing.
So you are an amazing photographer and we're going to
get into that a little bit more in a little while.
But given that you spent so much time in Grenada,
I wonder how how do you think that spending that

(18:36):
time in Grenada, and like you mentioned, seeing all those
different colors maybe shaped your fascination with photography or even
your connection to storytelling.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
So I would say I was in college when I
picked up the camera. I was an average fetter, an
avid I should say, feta. So the camera was the
easiest way at that time to get into an event.
So you could always jump on to remember seven days,
seven nights, this is Caribilandmix dot com. So it's like, Okay,

(19:09):
if I take photos, I don't got to pay.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Together, Okay, smart man, Yes I'm.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Gonna shoot the event. Yeah, I'm gonna shoot the event.
You know what I'm saying. And eventually you kind of
sort of get to understand who the movers and shakers
are in that nightlife community. I think I went probably
about like three years deep in nightlight photography and I'm
just like, this isn't for me, right, So you kind

(19:36):
of sort of now start going into different avenues to
figure out where can you really creatively express yourself? And
the studio was it for me. It just so happened
that I had a lot of friends in nightlife, so
a lot of those women and men in that night
life scene. I started shooting in studio and I think
eventually you go down the line and you realize, well,

(19:59):
all right, could shoot beauty now, I could shoot maternity
now I could And eventually I got my first mass
client and it was it wasn't anywhere close to what
you would see now in regards to the caliber of work.
I think we had shot that in her I think
she emptied out her living room and it was a
white sheet on the wall. That was my introduction to masks. Funny,

(20:25):
when I show you those images, you would be like, Jesus,
what is this?

Speaker 1 (20:28):
No man, everybody has to start somewhere. I love that.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
But yeah, I liked it, you know what I'm saying.
I really liked blending what I understood as beauty and
editorial into the carnival imagery. And eventually, as I began
to do it more and more I kept getting those clients.
You tweak it to a point whereas it does reflect

(20:53):
on the things that you see as beautiful. Right, So
it kind of goes back to really, you know, I
appreciate and color, appreciating human form, appreciating expression. I mean,
the costume is there, will always sell itself, true, but
how can I push the people wearing the costume to
actually embody the characters that they were designed to be?

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yes, I agree, and I think that's one of the
things that I love about your photography. And I think
that it's very difficult for a lot of persons to
capture that, especially when it's, in my personal opinion, especially
when it's a man capturing a woman. And there are
very few photographers that I know. Another one that I

(21:35):
know is my friend Kareem. His companies called Photos by Riem,
and he does like Vogue and all these things now,
but even before he got to that level, his ability
to know how to capture women, I think is so
important because to me, you can tell photographers, especially let's
go back to carnival, right, you can tell photographers that

(21:58):
are just taking up picture of a woman's body, like
you know, just a woman in a costume. It's just
a quick picture. There's no real like depth to it,
if that makes any sense. Right. But I feel like
your work portrays women in the midst of carnival, but
not as like a spectacle, but more of like narrators

(22:18):
of the culture, you know, and telling us story. So
how do you approach that responsibility of representing feminine beauty
and strength in those frames because you, to me, you
have to look at it a little bit deeper as
a man.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
I think it's about placement. So at the end of
the day, I think where we are now, like carnival
content is stuck on social media. But to me, when
I shoot, I'm really shooting so that if it catches
the right eye, we could probably take it to print.
We could take it to billboard, or we can take
it to a place correct, correct editorial, you know, publication.

(22:58):
But the concept is I'm shooting this here, but I
would love it to be placed someplace where it's more
than just a carnival design. It's an iconic image that
probably would be you know, in the back of somebody's
mind for years to come, or I'm seeing somebody for
the first time, but in this particular costume, I know,

(23:20):
this doesn't belong on the road, this belongs on runway,
or this belongs in somebody's you know, like you ever
seen an image that you know for a fact you're
gonna use as your screensable.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
Yeah, right, it's kind of like beyond Carnival, beyond the season,
Like this is something that somebody would look at and
it would really stain their memory.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
And being in that moment when you're in a room
full of people. Their concept is just to sell that
particular design. But how I look at it is more
like a lifestyle product. So if you buy this carnival
costume and you've already invested in your vacation to go

(24:04):
to this destination, Yes, the costume may be let's just say,
and I'm not quoting, don't quote me on briceon Let's
say the costume is seven fifty. By that time, the
person already put down at seven fifty, they've already invested
in hotel, state and flight, in parties and outfits, so
they're well invested into this product. This is just a

(24:25):
tip of theizeberg. So how can I take this bra
and panty essentially and really use it as a vehicle
to make somebody leave everything they've worked for and go
to Grenada, go to Jamaica, go to Trinidad. It's you're
trying to sell a lifestyle in an image.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
I love that, and you, like I said, you do
a great job of doing that because it still looks
like the person, you know what I mean. Like, I
don't like seeing photographs and let's say you know who
the person is in the photo and you're thinking, who
is that? Because they've done all this editing and you
know what, you know what I'm talking about, right. You
know we're not gonna call name, but you know what

(25:09):
I'm talking about, right, Like the person looks like an alien,
and I hate that for them. So I just genuinely
appreciate photographers like you that, like I said, know how
to capture women and in their element authentically, but also
you know, they make sure they look nice, like you're
not leaving any you know, imperfections per se. I'm doing

(25:32):
air quotes because I mean imperfections. It's relative, but you
know what I mean, Like you the photographs look nice,
but they look like the person that's to me is
like the most important thing for sure. Absolutely, definitely, definitely.
And so when you when you have we start the
process right like you said, you kind of alluded to
it a little bit, like the person buying their costume

(25:54):
and you know, making that investment and all that. But
when you start the process of photographing some one whose
appearance or costume, you know, is really symbolic to them,
like maybe they're not just there for the prettiness of
it all. Maybe, like you, they were sent to Grenada
every summer and this is their first time coming back

(26:15):
and they're feeling this like spiritual connection. Because let me
tell you, everybody that listens to this podcast knows so
I feel about Grenada. Okay, I'm not gonna go into
it again because I don't want to take up too
much time, but I as a Jamaica and you know,
we are very very very very proud people. That is

(26:40):
the only other place I would say on this planet
where I can say I one hundred percent feel like home.
And so I can only imagine if somebody is coming
back and that is truly their home, you know, and
they want to capture. They don't just want a regular
photo shoot, right, Like, they really want to cap sure

(27:00):
the essence of their culture. How do you balance like
authenticity and your artistry, but like still you know, make
sure they look beautiful and all those things.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
I think it's it's really so the person walks in
the room for the first time. There are models that
I worked with on several occasions. For those that I'm
working with for the first time, I watch them through makeup,
I watch them come out through fitting, and you're trying
to categorize two things. A their natural appeal and B

(27:35):
how vulnerable is this person in this moment? Are they
trying to be a model or they are they being
their authentic self? And you have a few moments to gauge.
Am I going to pose this person based on how
they present themselves or with this particular product that they're wearing,
let's say a frontline costume. Am I going to push

(27:55):
them over the edge to really be the best possible
version of themselves? I think many times people look at
their final content and there's only two reactions. It's either
oh my god, I can't believe that's me or I
love it because you didn't change me understanding the mileage

(28:18):
of the model, so to speak, so you're not trying
to push them too far. But at the same time,
there's a zone whereas a they've probably never been directed
in that particular space to perform at that level, so
the communication is super high. I'm literally telling you move
your chin five degrees, move your knee just a little

(28:40):
bit more. Do it again, do it and you'd see
models sweating in the heels like they say, like right,
But at the same time, it's like I shout right back.
It's like you thought you were gonna come in and
be pretty and just everything was gonna be good. No,
we work in We work in, Yes, at a point

(29:01):
whereas I think people have this misconception whereas the cameras,
the lights does everything for them, and the payoff at
the end is really our communication, like our our rhythm.
We build a rhythm together. I understand where you can't go,
so I'm only dwelling in the areas whereas you're performing

(29:23):
at your best.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
I love that. That's so beautifully Yeah, and especially the
dynamic between the dynamic between photographer and subject, if you will, right,
I think that's so important because if I am not
comfortable with you, I'm not going to fully relax, right,
I'm going to need a cold compress I'm going to

(29:46):
need a like an advila title at all, because I
am not going to be able to relax, you know.
So like if you're able to both relax, like you
can do your job and you're able to get the
person to, you know, just trust you, I think that's
really a big thing. I think people don't really realize.
They think, oh, just taking pictures or whatever, But you

(30:08):
could be a runway model for several years. If you
don't trust the person that's photographing you, you're not going to,
like you said, do your best or be your best self.
So that's really important.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
So that dance, I call it a dance, right, that
trust dance. It goes both ways. I shoot the majority
of the content here in Brooklyn, but on occasion I
would travel to shoot content between Miami, you know, in
different areas to shoot the content. This year, I went
to Trinidad for the first time and I shot nice

(30:42):
to see many of those models, and we're talking about
top tier models in their caliber. When I enter your home,
I'm a guest, right and watching people who are performing
at their peak and then stepping into a room and
going no, I'm leading now, absolutely not. So this is
what I'll do. I'm gonna let you lead the dance

(31:02):
and we'll dance together. However, I'm stepping in between your steps. Okay,
so I'm watching your natural movement and I'm hidding now.
So now I'm not leading, but I'm learning to dance
based on your rhythm and that process for me, I
loved it just the same. But it just goes to
show you that sometimes the subject can actually be the lead,

(31:27):
right and as a photographer you have to recognize when
that person is leading you into the shot. So I'm
gonna call I'm gonna call some names right now. Marissa,
Marissa and Trinidada. Believe her name is Marissa Williams if
I'm not mistaken. Probably one of the wow like a

(31:49):
god you ever see like Naomi Campbell just walk, yeah,
and there's nothing you can do that.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
That's a big compliment, you know, that's a very big compliment.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
Marissa in motion is literally like a god. Another one, Chanelle.
Chanelle is absolutely absolutely gorgeous, and I mean just to
watch some of these women work, it's you know, definitely
one of those things that you say to yourself, my god,
I don't have to do much but keep up, my god,
keep up. You know. Katana is another one. So there

(32:24):
are a lot of women right now in position in
this carnival industry to really represent the culture and embody
the costume's backstory to a t. I think for photographers
is not that difficult to find models, but it's one

(32:44):
of those things where it's like you have to peer
the right model with the right design. And I think
you could agree with that.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Yeah, No, definitely, definitely. And just to take a step
back a little bit, so you said you got started
in photography, but you know, you started in night life
and realized that just wasn't your thing around like college age.
Did you say college? All right?

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Correct?

Speaker 1 (33:09):
So what do you think makes you different from other photographers,
especially in the carnival space, because I find that a
lots of photographers in the carnival space maybe just started
I don't know, five years ago, ten years ago, just
went out on the road with a camera and turned
it into something. But you seem to have like a

(33:31):
lot of passion for it, which you can I mean,
you can tell, like I said, it's evident in your photography,
but just hearing you speak about it, you're very passionate
about that. What do you think makes you so passionate
about wanting your clients to have such a great experience
because everyone doesn't look at it from that perspective.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
When I came in, there was there was a demographic
that was underrepresented a couple of years back where we
are now in regards to like body contour and body
awareness and inclusivity, and especially when it comes to you know,
darker chacal tones in terms of complexion, we weren't quite

(34:12):
there many years ago. So it was me trying through
my work at least to represent for women that were curvy,
that were darker toned, that were petite, that weren't exactly
you know, athletic and slim, and really showing that you

(34:33):
can absolutely be that top model or absolutely be that
premiere model for this particular brand, even if that's not
the status quo at the moment, it really doesn't matter.
So really trying to fly that flag through my work
for you know, the complexions and the body types that

(34:53):
we're really underrepresented. That passion is kind of sort of
I don't want to say, me being rebellious.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Well, as a Grenadian, I would not be surprised. I
thought we were rebellious, you guys, very rebellious, and it's good.
Sometimes it's good to be rebellious, just.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
More so going against the grain and going an extra
step harder for the people that probably thought this couldn't
be me.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
If that makes sense, It makes perfect sense, absolutely absolutely,
And that's that's so refreshing coming from a man too,
because I find that in the space of women per se, right,
Like we have a lot of those conversations about you know,
body consciousness and making a way for each other and
making space for certain things. But it's always good to

(35:45):
hear men and men in our community, as persons from
the Caribbean really standing up for that in their own way, right,
because a lot of times people think in order to
stand up for something or for someone, you have to
make a big I have a dream speech and you
have to be advocating with a sign. But it could
just be you doing what you're doing in your field

(36:06):
to make sure that these women feel seen, you know,
Like that's an impactant way, and I think that's really
important to share that for sure.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Absolutely with consistency. I mean, I mean there's some people
that would make a statement once, but to continue to
do it all throughout, no matter what opportunity I would get.
And you know there'll always be people that would get
more opportunities.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
That's fine, Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
But whenever I do get a chance to pick up
this thing, definitely I will stand in the room for
you know, the underrepresented models and talent as well.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Yeah, and like we kind of talked about earlier in
the datnos owne Safe segment, you know, your actions matter,
and if you were doing it to be performative, you
wouldn't still be doing it.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
True.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
That's that's the beauty about being authentic, right, It's you
don't have to think about it, so anyone looking at
your content can see that you've been consistent, as you
said in that and wouldn't think that you're just jumping
on the bandwagon of now you know body consciousness and
now you're being inclusive. You've always been like that, that's

(37:13):
what it appears to be. So that's why I even
ask that question, because it's like, oh, you can tell
that you know, you're somebody that actually cares about making
sure all persons feel seen or all persons feel beautiful
in their costume, right, because beauty is in the high
in the in the high hear me very Jamaica in

(37:33):
the eye, heard a lot in the eye, pardon me,
in the eye of the beholder, right, It's subjective. So
as a woman, if I'm looking at a costume, right, like,
if I'm saying, Okay, I want to play mass in
Jamaica this year, and I'm looking at costumes, if the

(37:54):
person in the costume is like very very very very
slim and five foot ten, I'm not going to be
able to picture myself in that costume because I'm five
foot two, So I'm going to be like what So
you know what I'm saying, Like what I really think
about it? That's really important.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
It was the same outcry that curvaceous women had when
they were putting like frontline models in the highwayst It's
kind of like, but this this girl will have no value.
How could I understand what my curves would possibly look
like in this particular esthetics? Right if you're putting it
on somebody that have washboard apps, it really don't make sense.

(38:35):
And I know sometimes that maybe like a casting kind
of thing behind the scenes, whereas it's like, look, we
casted two models, we're over budget. We just need to
shoot these two looks and keep it moving. But there
is a there is a benefit to having that particular
individual in the room to represent this specific aesthetic because

(38:58):
women who you know, and there are many different types
of curba It just doesn't have to be you know,
in the stomach area. They have some people that could
have big busts, you know, and smaller hips, so they
have women that probably have bigger hips and smaller busts.
But trying trying to give the consumer a better understanding
as to what this may look like on different body

(39:22):
lines is very, very crucial because I'm pretty sure you've
seen on the road. Sometimes you look at a costume
online and then you see it on the road and
a're like, why it is looking like that? Why did
she choose that? Why do you choose that? And you know,
it's no fault to the consumer because they didn't know
and there's no showroom to try it on, there's no

(39:42):
mannequin for them to touch it. We live in a
society where everything is pretty much online point of sale.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Especially if you live apart you know, maybe if you
live locally you can touch it, but most people correct.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
So I mean the business as it's moved towards being
more of an e comm space, we definitely need that
representation at all costs. Otherwise, in the long run, you
end up having all these disgruntle customers that didn't know,
they weren't aware, they weren't empowered to make that specific
you know, purchase.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Yeah, that's so true. That's so true. That's definitely an
important factor. And speaking of Carnival, before we wind down
to I guess kind of a reflective question that I
want to ask you, have you played Have you played
mass consistently in Grenada? Like I don't know the last
four or five years or so, or was this your

(40:36):
first time going back in a long time?

Speaker 2 (40:39):
So I think the only thing that stopped me within
the last couple years is COVID. COVID definitely put a
pause on Carnival for us. So the last Carnival we
had prior to COVID was twenty nineteen, and then I
think after that was like twenty twenty two.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
Okay, so it just started back correctly. Okay, So it's
been the same for all because I believe it's the
same for Jamaica as Okay, so I have to ask
you what was your absolute favorite part about Grenada Carnival
this year about spice Man.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
So, Grenada definitely presents many different facets in regards to
the carnival season, but job is always for me, the
most inclusive and the most freeing moment that you can
have all year. And I can't I can't really explain
what it means to me. From the time you're landing Grenada,

(41:36):
it's like your land and I don't quote you on this,
but like you're in a space whereas technology is not
exactly the ultimate thing that you have to worry about.
When you're landing Grenada is just like you fear relaxed.
You don't feel tied to your phone, you don't feel
tied to look at social media, like you just want
to indulge in everything around. You're smelling the air, You're here,

(42:00):
everything clear.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
It's like what the he's going on the oil?

Speaker 2 (42:04):
So I think by the time you've you've gone past
the Soca monarch and you've gone past your few fetes
and things of that nature. When come time for Juve morning,
it's this feeling of togetherness. And I don't think people
understand the multitude of people that coming down from Belmont

(42:25):
into town. Sometimes you're looking up that hill and I
don't know, if you're familiar, there's a slight hill coming
down Belmont that most people slide down.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yes, I was tipping, taking my time because it was very,
very good.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Yes, if you if you were to stand at the
foot of that hill for I would say probably about
like five minutes down from the slope, and you start
to see people coming down that hill. You don't know
who's a doctor, a lawyer, a cop, a priest, a student, poor, rich,
everybody black. And it's this feeling for the first time

(43:02):
that it doesn't matter, nothing matters. Yeah, right, you see
people that I don't care if you have a thousand
dollars worth of debt, if you have no money in
your pocket, if you're a rich person, if you're whatever
worries most people have is practically erased. On that day. Yeah,
for six hours, people are on the road really moving

(43:23):
to like an ancestral vibration. I love it, I absolutely
love it.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
So I love that, love that, love that, love that
And did you go to Soca Monarch. You mentioned it
briefly just absolutely. I don't know if you have to absolutely, Okay,
what was your favorite part about that?

Speaker 2 (43:42):
This year had many different acts that I think were
crowd favorites, but I think watching several underdogs at the
same time compete for one title. So Buba was probably
a very great performance. Muddy, of course, is a crowd favorite.
Big Upmuddy anyway, Muddy Day.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Everybody knows. I love it.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
When you're big, big up the King, Big Up the
King Muddy. But it's it's really watching people coming back
to the National Stadium because last year we didn't have it.
We were in the smaller stadium due to we had
Hurricane Beryl last year that really left us some floodwaters
and the National Stadium right it wasn't available, so we

(44:28):
had Soger Monac in a smaller venue, so going back
to its original place now it's supposed to be. It
really allowed people the space to move and react to
the music and support the artists that they came out
to listen to to the fullest. So definitely, definitely Soger
Monarch was a great night.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
So as you're saying that, I'm getting a little bit
of chills because I told you I was going to
save my comments about Muddy until you were done. So
I had money on my show prior to him winning, obviously,
and you know, I learned a lot about him as
a person, but really about like his journey to like

(45:13):
where he was headed, right, And we kind of jokingly
talked about him winning and you know, putting the crown
on his head. But I truly did believe that, right,
And I'm sure he did as well, because it's him,
it's his journey. And can I tell you from I
got off the plane, I was telling everybody he was
gonna win, and so obviously, you know, I went to

(45:34):
Soca Monarch. There were some amazing performances, like we're talking
about power but groovy Soca. Honestly, like every single one
of those performances were my favorites. I'm not gonna lie.
They were so good and just like the crowd and
what you just said, I actually didn't know. So I

(45:54):
thought this same thing happened last year in the same place,
with the same type of crowd whatever. Right, So it's
funny because and this is the reason that I got
chills for a second. After he won, I was talking
to my dad and I was saying that, you know,
I feel like God wanted him to win. No, because

(46:17):
I knew just from like seeing all the social media
stuff that Spice Mass was very popular this year. So
in my mind, I just thought, like, social media wise,
you know, would be better for him to win this year,
even though he came in second last year. And I
did hear people saying he should have won or he
deserved to win. I don't know, I didn't see. It
wasn't there obviously, but I just thought like, oh, you know,

(46:39):
maybe that's the reason. Like I always believe in trusting
God's timing, that's just like a thing of mine. And
so I just thought like, oh, wow, you know, like
that's really good that it happened now because Grenada's getting
so much attention and blah blah blah. But when you
said that, I thought, wow, God is something else, because
I think that's also a why he wanted him to

(47:03):
win this year. Because when I saw, you know, I
was in the front, so every now and then I
would turn around and see the magnitude of people cheering
not only during his performances but through everyone's performances, and
it was overwhelming. But you see when I saw the
video like online of like that top tier view from
like the stands. I wanted to cry as a bad

(47:26):
gal just making that clear.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
But.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
I felt so emotional because I'm thinking, like, I don't
even want to know what he feels because it wasn't me.
But I'm just thinking, imagine you work for something year
after year after year, people are in the comments saying
you don't deserve it, you shouldn't get it, this person
should get it, and you stay positive. Then you make
a song that basically exudes that positivity, right, and you

(47:53):
really really truly believe in yourself, not in an arrogant way,
but in a way where like you just know that
this is your time. And then you happen to win
on the year where it's back in its rightful place
and all these people are there, look here, no man.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
So so I'll tell you this, right. I think Muddy
as an artist is very unique in that he has
been consistent. And I tell you, like Muddy first came
up on my radar, and I'm not late. But I
think during Socomonac, everybody has their particular artists they want
to win, and just like politics, as blind people during

(48:31):
like you know, election, time in Jamaica, people wearing yellow,
people wearing green people were during Socomonar. People are just
as vicious in their comments and their attitude towards another
fan base. Okay, So in twenty eighteen, when I was
in Grenada, I had seen Muddy perform. I think he
had a song called dun Stript already and I had

(48:52):
never seen a crowd reaction like that for somebody that
was an underdog in this race. And from that time
I said, watch, and Muddy has been consistent in regards
to putting out good music for Grenada, and he's patient.
I've never seen an artist humble Muddy would sing his

(49:13):
music and not have any type of ill intent towards
any artists. You don't see Muddy and no scuffling online
or nothing like that. He just putting out good music
and he waiting. Now. We mentioned last year that the
stadium was flooded out due to Hurricane Berrem Last year,
Muddy had a song called the Moment where he literally
is singing about what happened this year. But it's one

(49:36):
of those things where it's like he's foreshadowing. So from
our artist perspective, it's poetic to me. The reason why
that performance didn't get a higher rating is because last
year it rained when Muddy came on stage, it was
like torrential down poor last year. So it's either you
chose an umbrella or you chose pneumonia. One of the

(49:58):
t right. But Muddy Muddy have a consistent, faithful fan
base that believe in him. And when I tell everybody,
dash away Umbrella, dash away, Pancho, and they literally were
soaked in the rain jumping up for Muddy and to
see him in this element this year now, whereas an

(50:22):
entire country is behind him because everything clicked. The visuals
for the song came out at the just the right time,
so if you were traveling to Grenada, you got to
see the song that literally now would grow in your heart.
And the lyrical content of the song Muddy writes from
almost like a dance hall kind of pross.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
He definitely does yes.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
So whereas most people is focused on the jump and wave,
he is trying to really twist emotional strings in those melodies.
So it works.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
It clicked, Yeah, yeah for sure.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Yeah, So big up, big up, Muddy. I have no
similar respect for Mario and you know, I hope to
see you know, many more victories faim, whether it be
in Sosaca Monarch or other crossover heads. We're definitely looking
forward to seeing what Muddy has in store. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Same, I think he's such a he's such an excellent
representation for Grenada. I think just who he is as
a person. And you know, even though he's somebody that's
not as talkative, like you said, he's humble, he stays
to himself. I think that his artistry speaks for itself, right,

(51:35):
and the fact that he's, like you said, he's not
in a lot of things and he's really just focused
on his work. I think that when you do that,
those same critics they're going to have to come over
to your side, even if they don't want to. They're
they're just gonna have to creep over, you.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
Know, absolutely absolutely, Eventually, eventually the body of work begins
to really drown out any type of of criticism that
may come your way.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah for sure. Okay, well, no enough of that emotional
stuff because yeah, bad gal, but big up, big up
money for sure. And congratulations to him again on being
crowned Soca Monarch King. That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
So for our final question, I would like you to
close your eyes and go back to your younger self.
I would say probably maybe when you first entered college,
so like eighteen around there. And if you could talk

(52:41):
to that version of yourself and maybe even show that
version of yourself one of your favorite carnival portraits, what
would you say to him? Make sure your eyes are closed, Yeah,
they closed, they close.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
My first bit of advice would be to lean in
to whatever makes you feel, whatever gives you purpose, lean
into it. I think at that age, you know, you
try to be a jack of all trades, and you
try to do everything well, but there's always one thing

(53:21):
that has a calling. Even when I try to avoid
the carnival content and say like, oh, let me go
do weddings, let me go lean in to the niche
that brings purpose to your life. The money will come.
It will always come, especially if you're doing things at

(53:43):
a higher level. I think in any creative niche, whether
it be sculpting, photography, podcasting, people can recognize the passion
in you. And I've gotten so many gigs in regards
to people watching me work over my shoulder and then
six months later I didn't even know that person was

(54:05):
in the room, but they hired me to do another job.
Oh so just continue leaning into what gives you purpose
and don't stop being a voice for the people who
can't speak up in the moment.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
I think if I could go back and tell myself,
you know much times and sometimes you kick yourself with that.
As a creative, you watch things transpire, and as we
spoke about earlier, you turn it into a boundary later
on when in that moment, even if you uttered a sound,
you could have put a stop to it.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
Yes, yes, we definitely all have those moments. That's very
honest of you to share. That's so true, so true.
But that's a good thing about hindsight being twenty twenty right,
you can see it clearly make better decisions, like you
said earlier, moving forward right, rather than dwelling on what
you could have done. So I love that beautiful. Okay,

(55:07):
So for our final segment, I'm going to ask you
a few rapid fire questions and you have to answer
with the first thing that comes to mind. Okay, all right, ready,
let's go. What is a color that you associate with
home meaning grenada yellow yellow? Why did I figure you

(55:29):
were going to say that? Because you were talking about
it earlier. What is a photograph you wish you owned
or had taken. I know I'm the Jamaican offer, you know,
I have to get defund here.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
There is this national geographic image. It's way before my time, okay, right.
I think it's like of an Afghan.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
Girl, oh, with the blue eyes.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
With the I believe it's it's like this turquoise stare. Yes.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Oh, that's a beautiful photo.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
I can like recreate that at some point in time
with any West Indian young lady. I would love to
do that. But it's one of those things where it's
like the more you stare into it, the more it
stares back into you. And it's just like this piece
of work that is just it puts you in a
time loop. Yeah. The only time you stop admiring it
is when you look away.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
That's so true. The fact that I knew exactly what
you were talking about tells you how timeless it is. Right. Yes,
it's funny you say that because there was a photographer Gosh,
I wish I could remember his name to beg him up,
But there was a photographer in Jamaica that I believe
he was trying to recreate that. I guess I shouldn't
make that assumption, but here are these I don't want

(56:51):
to say a set of people, but there are certain
persons in a parish in Jamaica that have piercing blue eyes.
And one of them had really dark skin, which often
you don't see, right, you see like lighter skin and
blue eyes or something like that, maybe even brown, but
very very dark, chocolatey, rich, beautiful skin and piercing blue eyes.

(57:14):
And that's another photograph that sticks at in my head.
So yeah, if you could recreate that with a Caribbean woman,
that would be so amazing, because I'm sure there are
plenty that have blue eyes.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
There's another photo that I think, I think you just
got to leave that one alone. But I think the
iconic photo that I've seen in the West Indies is
there's a woman called Cintra Bronte. She had taken this
photo coming out of the water in that red Jamaica shirt.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Yees. So it's like awe, and people don't.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
Know that, right, but I'm like that probably stained every
campaign for Jamaica right within the nineties for like two decades. Yeah,
and it's like, if you can top that, if you
can top that photo. As a Caribbean photographer, you would
be like literally on God's sets.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
Yeah, yeah, that that photo is man. And it's so
funny though, like when she tells the story of how
it happened, I'm sure she had no clue it would
be that big. It was not a planned photo shooter
or nothing like that. And then the fact that she's Trinny.
People are always taken aback by that because they just
assume the person is Jamaican.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Just just focus on the work, don't focus.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
Exactly right exactly, but you know how we are. We
want to know. We want to claim her, that's the thing.
We want to claim her. And they were like, wait,
we can't claim her. Oh not yet, not yet, not yet,
Oh my gosh. Okay, next question, what is one Caribbean

(58:45):
tradition that you will definitely pass down to the next generation.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
So we Christmas is very important at least in my
family and extended family, and just to make sure that
we don't lose sight of a religion and b what
family truly means in regards to that season, aka playing
powerang music from Thanksgiving, rights in the New Years, cooking

(59:17):
the Christmas ham and definitely you know, creating those memories
for the children for years to come. So I think
really being close during the holidays and kind of instilling
our version of what a West Indian Christmas is. I
really don't want that to die with me. So you're

(59:38):
definitely going to pass that on.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
That beautiful, beautiful all right. Two more, what is or
maybe I should say, name a moment when you felt
or maybe said to yourself, I'm carrying my heritage in
this shot.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Hmm, that's a good one, then, Na, that's a good one.
And I don't think I don't think it's a particular shot.
I think this would have to be like a real
and I know it may sound crazy as a photographer,
but I believe I was in Grenada. This had to

(01:00:20):
be twenty twenty three, and I remember that year. I
woke up late for Juve, so most times they'd wake
up three o'clock in the morning. I woke up probably
like six thirty. And when I tell you, like put
on my slipper street, I running young Intong like I
have to be there, and I literally took out my

(01:00:41):
camera and every person that I passed literally I was
capturing some type of video content for them. And it
really turned out to be something that, in my opinion,
was groundbreaking at the time because I mean, I'm a
carnival photographer, right, but it's really me now extending that

(01:01:02):
artistic eye to what's happening in real time, so like
a photojournalistic kind of thing. I think that year many
people couldn't make it to Grenada, right. It was like
the first carnival after the pandemic, so really instilling that
kind of sense of fear of missing out. Yeah, gosh,
people like literally crying out loud from abroad, like I

(01:01:25):
wish I was there. This is so beautiful, that kind
of thing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
So yeah, I think it would be that particular real.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
Okay, love that. Love that. And last but not least,
if a single photo or a single frame could speak
to who you are, so could tell maybe your story
to the world. What photo would that be? And it
could it could be a photo of you or a
photo that you've taken of someone else.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
I would say twenty to be like twenty twenty. So
Lauren Leah, this is COVID year. This is when we
didn't know how deep this thing was. So during COVID
we were still shooting carnival content, expecting this thing to
be over in a couple of months, no matter how

(01:02:21):
much spaces they shut down in New York. I mean,
the studio was always a safe haven, whereas you could
congregate their six feet of space, whatever the case may be.
But we were shooting a curvaceous option and the designer
at the time had created this little, small, medium backpack
for the curvy girl, and we had a bit of

(01:02:44):
a I wouldn't call it an argument, but it's more
so me saying I'm not shooting that. I want her
to put on the frontline backpack. And at that time,
there weren't many curvaceous options that featured a curvy frontline.
But my argument was we hear, now this looks better

(01:03:04):
than that, So put on the grandiose backpack on the
curvy and it will sell. And me standing up in
that moment, for that particular option, this had to be ramage.
It was the first time that they had featured a
curvaceous option with a front line backpack, and it clicked,

(01:03:25):
it worked, it sold wow. Right, So at that point
it's like, Okay, this is me being as we said before, rebellious,
saying that I don't like this. If indeed you like it,
I'll still shoot it, but do it my way and
see which one works. And in that particular moment, I

(01:03:45):
was right. So from a political perspective, I was able
to give voice to something that didn't exist. Now it exists,
and it sells, and it becomes a staple in that
particular section leader's lineup. Now the curvy girls that whereas
before it would be something that they would have to
ask for custom it wasn't featured on any site. Now

(01:04:07):
you're actually seeing that as a result of somebody not
going with the grain in studio. So it's a lot.
I mean oftentimes behind the scenes, like when we create,
there are people who are pushing to do things that
are different. There are people that are pushing to do

(01:04:29):
things that would really become a voice for people that
you know, probably would not have seen that had they
not been in a room. But for me that became
the turning point whereas I realized that I can speak up,
I literally can you know, influence so to speak, the
body of work, even from my particular niche you still

(01:04:50):
have some type of effect on what people end up
seeing internationally.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
Oh yeah, absolutely, I think that's so Wow, that's so
well said, and it's so important because you have to
think of the person that has never been to Carnival,
that you know is maybe seeing it on social media
and saying, oh, I'm not even from the Caribbean, but
i want to go. They're going to peace their in

(01:05:16):
their mind, their ability to go based on what they
see as far as like costume wise and women that
are in. So you you really pushing that forward that
in turn is just helping more persons like want to
go or feel like they can participate. I should say
in Carnival, which is very absolutely okay, Well sadly that

(01:05:44):
concludes the episode, but I have to do my little
thank you. It's like my thing, So, Hugh, thank you
for inviting us into your world of photography where color,
culture and feminine power meet radiant dialogue. In my opinion,

(01:06:06):
your work doesn't just capture Caribbean carnivals, it really holds
them in reverence. And I find that through your lens,
women are not confined to ideals, but they're celebrated in
their fullness, curvy, bold, radiant, and unapologetic. I think that

(01:06:26):
you and your photography remind us that inclusivity isn't just
an afterthought, and your photographs teach us that. They teach
us that seeing is not passive. It's really a relationship,
like we talked about, which is so important, and it's
one that honors women as carriers of a story and

(01:06:47):
ritual and just them being their free and full selves.
So thank you for all that you do, and thank
you for coming to talk the things with me.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Thank you, thank you so much for having me. Literally,
this has been a great experience. I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
Oh, you're welcome. It was a pleasure having you. I
hope to have you back for sure. And is there
anything you want to share with the audience where they
can follow you all that good stuff?

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
Oh, definitely. If you're on social media, it's Humore's photography
that's on TikTok as well as Instagram. And the website
is hugh h U g hshot u dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
By the way, I love that. I love that name.
That is so brilliant. I should have told you that first.
I think that's so brilliant.