September 22, 2025 • 58 mins
This week, we are talking di tings with legendary producer, singer, and ordained minister, Tommy Cowan, C.D.
In this episode we explore Tommy's remarkable journey, from his childhood in St. Elizabeth to being a member of "The Jamaicans", to his pivotal role in distributing some of Bob Marley & the Wailers legendary songs, like Natty Dread, Talkin’ Blues, and One Drop; ensuring Bob’s revolutionary messages reached audiences around the world.He also reflects on producing the historic One Love Peace Concert in 1978 and the iconic Zimbabwe Independence Concert in 1980.
Tommy Cowan is also known for his signature phrase, ‘Yes Indeed’, which on the surface, may sound casual. However, it's more than a phrase. It's a philosophy we should all live by; to say yes indeed to embracing life’s contradictions, to welcoming life's difficulties alongside its blessings, and to pivoting and proceeding with resilience in the face of adversity.
He also shares stories about his wife, singer-songwriter Dr. Carlene Davis-Cowan, O.D., an icon in her own right, and their collaborations; establishing their own record label, Glory Music productions and perhaps their most known collaboration, their daughter Naomi, who has created her own path within the music industry, while honoring their legacy.
This inspiring conversation underscores the transformative power of Reggae, celebrates the legacy of Tommy Cowan, and is filled with several words of wisdom and moments of laughter.
So grab your tea, coffee, or a glass of wine, and let's talk di tings!
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If you enjoyed the episode, leave us a 5 star rating, share this episode, and follow Let’s Talk Di Tings on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
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Listen to LTDT on:
SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/6akOR9kAnsbANiszBDcVOL?si=aa70627937124c3e
APPLE PODCASTS: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lets-talk-di-tings/id1662696625
In this episode we explore Tommy's remarkable journey, from his childhood in St. Elizabeth to being a member of "The Jamaicans", to his pivotal role in distributing some of Bob Marley & the Wailers legendary songs, like Natty Dread, Talkin’ Blues, and One Drop; ensuring Bob’s revolutionary messages reached audiences around the world.He also reflects on producing the historic One Love Peace Concert in 1978 and the iconic Zimbabwe Independence Concert in 1980.
Tommy Cowan is also known for his signature phrase, ‘Yes Indeed’, which on the surface, may sound casual. However, it's more than a phrase. It's a philosophy we should all live by; to say yes indeed to embracing life’s contradictions, to welcoming life's difficulties alongside its blessings, and to pivoting and proceeding with resilience in the face of adversity.
He also shares stories about his wife, singer-songwriter Dr. Carlene Davis-Cowan, O.D., an icon in her own right, and their collaborations; establishing their own record label, Glory Music productions and perhaps their most known collaboration, their daughter Naomi, who has created her own path within the music industry, while honoring their legacy.
This inspiring conversation underscores the transformative power of Reggae, celebrates the legacy of Tommy Cowan, and is filled with several words of wisdom and moments of laughter.
So grab your tea, coffee, or a glass of wine, and let's talk di tings!
.
.
.
If you enjoyed the episode, leave us a 5 star rating, share this episode, and follow Let’s Talk Di Tings on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
.
.
Listen to LTDT on:
SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/6akOR9kAnsbANiszBDcVOL?si=aa70627937124c3e
APPLE PODCASTS: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lets-talk-di-tings/id1662696625
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I am deeply grateful for the opportunity to have had
this conversation with the legendary Tommy Cohen, whom I affectionately
call Uncle Tommy, and this episode means so much to me,
not only because of Uncle Tommy's extraordinary career in music
(00:20):
and ministry, but because his story and stories like his,
are not shared enough. Tommy Cohen is not only a
legendary producer, singer and ordained minister, he is an architect
of sound who played a significant role in the foundation
Jamaican music rests today. His fingerprints can be found on
(00:44):
some of the most important moments in Jamaican music history,
with his work spanning not only decades, but genres, movements,
and generations. However, what I find awe inspiring is not
just his long list of accolades and trust me, the
(01:05):
list long like line down, I embassy, but it's the
way he has moved through them with conviction, with humility,
and most importantly, with faith. Many know Uncle Tommy for
his signature phrase yes indeed, and on the surface it
sounds simple, almost casual. However, I see it as a
(01:29):
philosophy that we should all live by to say yes indeed,
to life's contradictions, to welcome its difficulties alongside its blessings,
and to stand with resilience in the face of adversity.
To me, it's an affirmation of endurance and gratitude. Uncle
(01:50):
Tommy has lived this philosophy in the most profound sense,
having undergone heart surgery. His life reminds us that the
heart is never merely a muscle. It's also devotion, courage,
and love. His physical heart was restored, but his heart,
as in his soul, the one that beats through faith,
(02:13):
through music and through family, has remained steady all along.
The spirit of faith and resilience runs through his wife
and children as well. In his enduring partnership with doctor
Carlen Davis Cohen, an icon in her own right, we
(02:33):
see how music and ministry can exist in harmony, each
strengthening the other. And in one of his daughters, Naomi Cohen,
we see how she's able to continue her family's legacy,
carrying freshness and light the weight of tradition, but with
her own voice, proof that even with having iconic parents
(02:57):
as a foundation, you can still honor their legacy in
your own way. The cherry on top that makes legacy
not only lasting, but luminous. As you listen to this
episode and listen to Uncle Tommy's story, I invite you
to listen intently beyond the stories of his music, career
(03:18):
and world stages. Listen for the deeper lessons about family,
about legacy, and about the courage it takes to hold
on to and pursue one's dream while navigating life. Listen
for the pulse of resilience, for the heartbeat of a
man who has learned to say yes indeed with grace,
(03:43):
faith and conviction boom. If you're listening to the podcast
(04:14):
on Apple Podcast, please remember to rate and leave a
comment below. Also, don't forget to follow us on Instagram
at Let's Talk the Tings. Now, grab your tea, coffee,
or a glass of wine and Let's Talk the Tings.
Hello everyone, Welcome back to Let's Talk to Tings, where
(04:36):
we discuss personal growth, travel, music and wellness while encouraging
you to live fearlessly and fabulously. I'm your host, Ash
and this week we are talking to Tings with a
legendary Jamaican producer, singer, promoter, ordained minister and one of
(04:59):
the persons who has played an integral role in shaping
Jamaican music's global footprint. Tommy Cowen, Hi, uncle Tommy, how
are you bless?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Indeed, I really appreciate being here this morning, that today
that I can share with you. Ash, thanks very much,
of course, of course it's such an honor to have
you here, So I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I love music, and as you would know, I've grown
up around music my whole life. So I like to
ask persons that have a really strong musical background, what
is a song that makes them feel empowered? Like any
song from any genre that you can think of.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Wow, that's a good one. First time I've ever been asked.
Let's say the Bridge over Troubled Waters.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Okay, love that? Love that? And is there a particular
reason why you chose that song?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Because as you go on in life, you learn, and
you know, I don't want to jump into this or whatever.
But I it was many many years ago, back forty
fifty years ago. I was with Bob Marley and we
were going to the country and there's a spot if
(06:29):
anybody could thinking of Jamaica, that there was a spot
in the road, a bad place called Cremo, who makes
ice cream, And they were digging up the road and
onto the right hand side of it. After passing there
was Andrew's liver sauce sign that says wake up and
(06:54):
live and you see all the spark coming out of it.
And after going through those things, he we went back
after we did, and he remembered that he was thinking
about it and he wrote the lyrics that says, what
life is one big road with lots of signs when
(07:17):
you're going through the roads. When you're going through the roads,
don't complicate your mind. And it's it's kind of brought
me back to that same thing, like a bridge over
troubled water. We don't complicate our minds because there is
still a bigger power, a higher calling on our life
(07:40):
that will think it over this hurdle. You know that.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
That's beautiful. Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah, it's like we go through the valley of the shadow.
We're not staying in there. We are going through and
we go through even a shadow and you know what
shadows the shadow right now? Yes, yeah, shadows. Shadows are
not real. The estimate is with no substance. Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
So I love that so beautifully said, Thank you so
much for sharing that story too. How you merge the two.
That's wow, that's really really amazing. Thank you for that.
So I want to go back to the very beginning.
You were born in Saint Elizabeth. All right, okay, so
(08:33):
if you can go back to little Tommy, were you
always interested in music or what was your childhood like
growing up in Saint Elizabeth?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Okay? Well, like you you said, you know, and name
is really Thomas col On, Tommy, And I was born
in a place in Saint Elizabeth market in a little
district which I thought that the name of it was
(09:05):
Moco for many years until I had to actually look
at the map and it's called kek e Pp. And
so that's where I was born. I have nine brothers,
two sisters. Grandfather is a white man, my mother is
a black African. He happened to have been the a
(09:31):
Methodist lay preacher for about sixty odd years, and and
that was going up there in in in Saint Elizabeth.
I I recall one one morning though, I'm going to
(09:51):
church and we're taking a shortcut and what is called
a trumpetry birth and gave me a baptism. I don't know.
Trumpet tree is very tall, you know, and those days
you take off your shoes and wait until the reach
to the church that before you put them back on
off your foot because you know we're over your shoes
(10:12):
you want, And and the trumpetry kind of burst all
the way down. And I didn't know about that was
two years, like maybe seven. All the water came out
of the tree and with me from my head right
down and so I in a short while after that anyway,
(10:35):
my father sent me to Kingston mhm. And I started
my life in Kingston, going to have a three primary school.
And yeah, but that in center it is a bit
I mean earlier knew was like you never you never
thought of yourself being because you're living in two rooms
(10:58):
as all that, right, I think of yourself being poor
and all of that. We we go a very good
life to believe that God provides everything. And when we
have the fruits and we only eat chicken once a week,
and we just thought that was it was the order
(11:20):
of life. We do that there was a different life,
ye I think to compare it with so we had
fruits and bread fruit and all the ground propigeons and
just thought that was life. And then on a Sunday
you'd have chicken. But then you just thought of it
(11:42):
that way. And when there was one slice of bread
left into what they call the bread basket, which you
hung into the roof of the house, you just God,
thanks for bread in the basket. You think of, Okay,
it's just one size of bread. We have as nine boys,
fo girls, Come on, we were because and thanks because
(12:06):
we had bread in the basket. Say your brain basket,
never see emptiness.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Wow, that's amazing, and it's amazing just to show you know,
perspective when you don't have anything to compare it to.
You were in your mind you were rich and living
a normal life or already knew yes, yes, oh I
love that. And did you do you have any memories
of music at that time in your life?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Ah, yes I do. We didn't have electricity, we didn't
have running water, and there was one man who came
to the village and he brought a radio. The only
thing we listened on the radio was the village would
(12:52):
come when there's a boxer, Joe Louis, and whenever he
put boxing, it was such a legend that the village
would gather around to hear it on the radio. That
was I don't know what they called it, short wave whatever, However,
(13:13):
my father, my father, because we were at the church
there was an organ there and of course so we
new church music. But my father got a gift from
the United States called a gramophone. I don't know if
(13:33):
you're real what a gramophone is is something you wind up.
You wind it up and then it starts to play.
And you had you got the record, which was the
big seventy eight inch or what they call it at
the time record, And so we got two songs I
(13:55):
recall was one was Jane and Louise will Soon Come Home. Yeah,
And there was another one Whome on the Range. And
those were the two songs. And I thought to myself
(14:16):
as a young kid, where is this coming from? Was
there somebody's head inside of the grammar phone? You know?
That was kind of a mystery to me, that private.
But do my first reference.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
To music, Oh, I love that. I love that. And
then you said you would have gone to Kingston for
primary school. But then a little bit further along into
the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties, I think that was
a time for real musical innovation in Jamaica, like the
sound system culture, the shifting temples of scott into rock
(14:52):
steady and even the social energy of Jamaica being newly independent.
So can you tell us about that time in your
life and kind of walk us through what you heard
and saw as a young person in Kingston.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Well, that was that was like coming into Kingston. I
was a little bit before all of that was happening.
My first recollection of a single in that level that
that time, I think we had one radio station was
(15:29):
a JA under different names, and there was a young
singer that was known for his singing, uh, Jimmy Talker,
and he was famous for singing the Lord's Prayer. And
just to let you know that at that time, when
we found out that about him, he would have had
(15:50):
to go and go to the radio station and he
would sing from the radio station, and he would have
won separate singing talent contests. Yeah, with the Via John's
Opportunity among others. And he went to uh, he went
(16:13):
to Lyndhurst Methodist Church. And I was now living with
my aunt in Kingston, and she went to Lyndhurst and
one day my aunt was kind of a very influential
in the church, of course, so one day she brought
him home and he came to the house and and
he was his son, and she gave him like a
(16:36):
whole tray of like sandwiches, and he ate a lot.
And I was inspired by that. But then I was
going up on Delaquy Road and into that transition now
of where we're here in the first song systems and
Lizay Yeah, and so Maxi Avenue was very musical. I
(17:00):
was looking next to her to people like, there's a
singer called Wilfred Jackie Edwards, Owing Gray. And of course
you had the Munchie sound System down the road from us,
and we've heard of people like what the crossroads to
(17:22):
see here, the music from Tom the Great Sebastian and
all of that, And of course you had the DJs.
When you would walk down as that sneak and go
down there, you would hear about DJ called Willie Penny Lord,
Comic Count Matookey. Those were the first ones you hear of,
(17:44):
you know, I mean later on in life you heard
about King Stitch and and and and you Are and
all that. It's coming up later years, like in the sixties.
The first DJs were those guys, and yeah, oh I
love that.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
I love that And what's your I guess most significant
memory of like the studio one times.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Okay, the studio one times now Like before that student one,
I was going to halfway to school and I don't know,
we would have like a singing at after school and
(18:34):
school get together. And one evening one day I was
invited to send Hughes High School because somebody sung there
and they were having a concert and I was invited.
So I went to send Hughes and I sang M
M a Pat Boone song. It was at the time
(19:01):
April Love is for Yeah, April Love and Yeah, I
think it was April Love. And then after that a
group of guys came to me and said, well, they
were singing there too, and they invited me to join
the group. It was called the Miracles. Yeah, and so
the Miracles as a group eventually with guys at Norrisria,
(19:26):
Martin Williams, I come, Derek Brown was like five of
us in the group at the time, and we we
eventually went to Cox and Yeah, Cox and Dad, and
we did a ska song called Chain Gong h Yeah,
(19:54):
and we did another song. I think all waited so long.
But then after that we went to I must study
this before before After that we went to do greed, right,
(20:15):
you know where we did more like more songs. But
before that, as the Miracles, we were singing, we would
have done talent contests and all of that. There was
a club called Kidding Map that we would go down
there on a Saturday night and us would sing and
we got like one pound fifty pence and we share
(20:38):
that and we walk home and we did several stuff
like boon and all of that. Wow club. But this
is interesting that we know there's this rich man who
was visiting Jamaica and he came down on his ship
and he was He took off his pink kerdilla roll
(21:01):
it off, and he invited us to sing for him
and his girlfriend while they have dinner. Imagine that. So
when we sang and were finishing, gave us shandy to
drink because we're pretty young, and he is a beer
(21:22):
mixed with a soda, right, and he said to us,
he said to us, fellers, you know something, Hm, You're
going to change your name today. You're going to change
your name from the Miracles. I said, yes, you should
do that, and from now you should call yourself the Jamaicans.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
That's how you got the name. Oh my gosh, whoa.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Oh, yeah, he says, he said, you should you should
call yourself the Jamaicans because the music that you are singing,
the music and the songs you are singing, will one
day become great, and you should be the first to
be identified with it. So call yourselves the Jamaicans. And
(22:16):
that was about identity. I didn't know that at the
first I talked read well, called yourself Jamaicans men. I mean,
everybody was the merry, called the merry men, you know, happy, happy,
happy go look, and he's saying, called the self for Jamaicans.
And so that's what we became known as the Jamaicans.
(22:36):
And yeah, and so we are we we went to
Duke Creed and at Duke Creed, we we we got
to do. We were allowed to go into this studio
because you got here about the man with the guns
(22:58):
by side, and you go down and your audition. You
don't have an audition. The minute your audition, you are
add a tool to leave, or you're allowed to crawl
under the door. This place, yeah a half a door,
so you have to ben and go underneath it. So
that's how you you see inside the studio. And so
(23:19):
we we did over I think we went in there,
but we did songs that woman go Home, peace and love.
We did things you say you love You're gonna lose,
And of course we did Baba Boom Time.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
That's my favorite song.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yeah, the festival song of nineteen seven, and that that
was the kind of experience. So and that was now
in West Kingston, and that kind of opened up a
whole different thing for us in the music industry because
(24:04):
that led us to being exposed to people like Byron
and the Dragonairs. You know, we're now appearing more with
the UH, with people like this Catalyzed and and other bands,
the Vikings and UH and and different groups. So and
(24:27):
then you know, that led us to even getting the
outside of the country with the offer. Can you imagine
our first outside appearance was in the Kyman Islands and
we were going and we even had a center of islands.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah. And then so that led to us touring the
Caribbean the United States. Can you know, places like a
man I could remember them. I'm Guyana, you know, because
in the Caribbean and there's another one there that we Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
That's amazing. And so during that time when you were
now exposed to or getting opportunities with the scatellites, Barrony
and the dragonaires. Was that around the time that you
met my dad.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Oh, your dad, you see your dad was Okay. Musicians,
I would say, had their their place in those days.
Musicians were in some kind of way as popular within
(25:56):
the industry as they.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Are sish Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Your dad. Now you know you have had people like
light names. Uh. And of course so he and like
light names were known dramas and because he had an
(26:24):
integral part back in the day when when you see
him and now now you're coming along with you know
after remember sixty six, in nineteen sixty six, we are
we were actually in the festival song competition before and
in sixty six it was split into two a song
(26:48):
and the partun mental competition. So the meters.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Is that for bamba? Was that the year they won
for bamba?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah, yeah, bambastic And so they want that side of
the competition, we want the other side coming along now,
your dad, when you play like with with tooths, now
you become very famous, like you're known like a Jackie Jackson.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Oh yeah, uncle Jackie.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, you know, and and so and and Paul and
and so we we we got to know them, and
when we got to be able to sing along with them,
playing with you. I can't remember the exact events they were,
(27:41):
but but when they play with you, you you're right
about it in any of your references. Yeah, man, I
was back by you know, the great Paul and drums
and Jackie and bass and you know you know who's
seven keyboards and all. Yeah. Yeah, so wow, then when
(28:07):
when with him now? Because I remember as tooths uh
and guys like Bob Marley and Toots breaking Off and
Desgon that can be ass became so well known more internationally,
and whosoever played with them became icons of the industry.
(28:32):
And so Paul Douglas was like, wow, man, you mean
Paul Douglas tune You kidding me? Come on?
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, I'm so happy you're sharing this because my dad
so humble, he would never tell me any of these things.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
No, no, what he was well, that is one of
the things that for us made him more like significant
because he was I would want to I would like
to use maybe the word reserve in this sense that
he never pushed himself up there to say, oh I
(29:09):
do this and I do that. He was more like
a nice person. You know, he never he never pushed
himself as as you know, you had guys like mikeel Richards,
he was another I'm great he had Hawks Brown, you know,
(29:30):
and you had these other guys and but no, that's
kind of address. Never forced himself on the front to
comment sall, hey, this is what you do. That is
what you don't do. You just know that when him
when he's there playing the reading steady, you know, yeah
(29:56):
that Baron iron newsed to this, this Barron Leave. I
remember back in the days were describing as arm as
a drummer that didn't give trouble in balancing his music. Yeah,
because he never overplayed.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I think that's perfectly defined.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Easiest guy too, because when a drummer is there is
always giving the engineer some challenge to balance drama because
they play I had an exciting or either tenure. But
when you look at Paul Douglas and a slide on that,
oh yeah, kind of fine. They're really more into the rhythm.
(30:43):
Rhythm flowing right right, keeps on flowing.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I love that. I love that. Thank you so much
for sharing that story, because of course I had no idea.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
But if you, if you, if you if you if
if you should look at the cat log of music
that has played, yeah, you will see and.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Hear yeah for sure, No, definitely. And that's why I
love having these conversations because I think persons like yourself,
Uncle Sly, Uncle Ken Ken Booth was on here as well.
You guys are just so humble in the impact that
you've had in this industry. I think it's so important
for our generation and even the younger generations to have
(31:27):
some frame of reference as to how the music has
come to what it is today. And so that brings
me to my next point. You went from being in
the Jamaicans to then really putting on your producer hat
and developing a relationship with Bob Marley, as you spoke
about in the beginning, So can you walk us through
(31:47):
kind of that transition from being in that group to
being a producer and maybe management.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
With the Jamaicans. I eventually one night Barrenly came to me,
and of course, back in the day how groups were structured,
you had a leader, singer, and a leader of the group.
So I was the leader of the Jamaicans. I wasn't
(32:16):
the most talented. I was the leader of the Jamaicans,
because you know what they had to say to the guys.
Why did you ask me to join the group as well?
When we were doing the concert at the girls high school.
You're the ones the girls liked. That's why we have
(32:36):
you here, because the girls like Anyway, because because of
what I think, apparently he saw me one night I
was putting the group together to perform, he invited me
to join, to come with him, to join him in
(33:00):
doing records management labor money he had. He had the
rights to a label called Atlantic Records, which was now
being distributed by west in his Records Limited. So we
were he was thinking, boy, he wasn't getting enough out
(33:24):
of the labor the distribution, and I should help him
to to push this forward. And while doing that, something
happened Western these records burned down. He eventually bought the
place and we started what was known as Dynamic Songs
Recorded Company. And so we moved from his garage into
(33:49):
building this place. At Dynamic Songs, I Wash was promoting
and marketing labels such as Atlantic Records, More Town and
and and Colombia and PolyGram, Polydor several others, and so
(34:17):
just to give her oversight and we had to do
the n R n R, which is to listen to
the music and decide which one was to become hits.
So I had, of course been been exposed to the
music of the Platters, the Drifters, Yeah, Jackson five, Aricha Franklin,
(34:43):
Gladys Knight and the Peeps, the Temptations, the Stylistics, and
the list goes after that. For some years. After doing that,
I also had the opportunity of dealing with people I
Ken Lazarus, Vig Taylor, Keith Lynn, Barry Biggs. There's a
(35:07):
blind singer called a Dina Edward for the song I
produced Don't Forget to Remember, became number one. She was
on the street side and amazing story. There was Bois
guard now at list and then of course I have
dynamic sounds. I long story shop, but brought in Eric
(35:31):
Donald's and I produced a song with him called Cherio
Baby song. Yeah, I produced Cherio Baby became a very
big one of the biggest and love of the common
people and several Eric Donalds and his songs. Barry Biggs
was another guy there. And however, with the blessings of
(35:52):
Byron Lee, I must say, and you know, because I
m hmm. We were like okay. So he blessed me
because I thought there was a need, there was a
need for to look after, for a better word, local artists,
(36:16):
Jamaican musicians and Jamaican music. So he blessed me, gave
me a motor car, gave me some money to start,
and I opened a company called Talent Corporation, a booking
and management and distribution agency. And so I started out
there with people like Young Band, Inner Circle with Jacob
(36:41):
Miller and staff, with Berries from Hammond Ras Michael and
the sons of Nigos uh Man, Oh my goodness, Tiger
I had. I had Dubbie Dobson, Dean Fraser. I did
(37:05):
the first Dean Fraser recording, and Junior Talker was another
one who was there, and and others, and of course
amongst the mixed game, Bonnie Whaler of the Whalers and Peters.
I had also distributed song like Legalized with Peter Peter
(37:30):
Barbylon Kingdom. I did the album with Bonnie Wheeler. I
can't remember the name of it now. And at that
same time Bob Marley came and asked me to distribute
two songs with him. He came and play some songs,
(37:53):
and he was saying about the hard time he was
having and having his music being played on radio. I mean,
I had a guy called fred Lax black Star lineup
which came from nothing to to that' to a number one.
He had talked for two years and he brought that
(38:13):
and I said, all right, listen, I've got so much
influence in readers, So listen to the radio. In fifteen
minutes today this you're gonna hear record play. And now
now he still talks about it. You know, a good
Israel vibration for you guys from the Polio rehab center.
(38:33):
We're all gonna sing the same song. And anyway, so
Bob said to me, yes, So I listened to his
songs and I said, this one is a real big
hit called Nati Dread Read naty Red. And then there's
no one called one Drop the job. So I said,
(38:59):
I'm going to put up one drop and see what
I do with it. And so we we did One
Drop and One Drop became a number one record, and
then after that I followed up with with uh Naki
Dred and that was like crazy yeah. And at the
(39:20):
same time, on the same time to also had a
group from England called the Cimarrons who we we made
mm hmm. Cold Ground was my bed last night and
lose and we had him talking lose and also became
(39:41):
a number one. So I do sobab. He wanted me
to put on the album, but it was two castle
at a time and so I went over that. But
then mm hmm. Then after that long story shot, he
(40:02):
had asked me to join his organization. He asked me
to come and say that we put our forces together
at Tough Gun. And I went and joined him at
Tough Gun as his marketing manager of Tough Gun. So right,
(40:28):
I don't remember that was a question.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Aw yes, No, that was more more that I asked for.
That was That's amazing because it's the lead up.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Right then I had quite a bit of experiences with him,
and that was including doing Radisha. I went to Radish
showed him and that's another story of the soldiers coming
and meeting us at Tough Gun and in the and
(41:02):
we they were telling us that when they were losing
the battle, it was his music Wonder War. So he
would be an honor if he could have come through
Rhodesia because they were getting their independence from from the
British colonialism thing, and so I went to Zimbabwe produced
(41:26):
that amazing concert which is well known as Prisoners Broke
Jail because they heard the music coming through the atmosphere
and all of that sort of I think I did
over thirty countries across Europe with him and stuff. I
produced one Love Peace concert with him and and and
(41:52):
the group there.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Yeah and yeah, wow, Uncle Tomy, you've lived quite alife.
We don't even have enough time to go over everything.
That's just so amazing. I have goosebumps. Wow wow, wow, wow,
that's that's so amazing.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
And I met my wonderful, beautiful wife Carlie.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
You read my notes because I literally was about to that.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
I didn't say anything.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Yes, I literally I promise if you could see my notes.
That's the next thing I was going to talk about
and ask you, Oh, you met aunt Carleen, and just
really reflect on, if you could, the fact that you
and not Carleen have built not only creative collaborations, but
also ministry and community programs together. So can you tell
(42:44):
us about your partnership and how that's really shaped who
you are as a person?
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Okay, An, I tell you that is so wonderful that
I just when I say that, I give God thanks
because we've now been together first oh gosh, for five years. Yeah,
it seems like yesterday's uh whoever, hey man, hallelujah somebody.
(43:12):
I I went Bobzi Grange, who is now the Minister
of Culture, Entertainment Sports in Jamaica, and she was involved
with Ernie Smith and these these person's. So I know
(43:37):
that Carlin came here to perform one year as reggae
son Splash, but I was not here in Jamaica at
the time. I was probably out there about mad or something. Well, anyway,
I went. I went to a concert. Ernest Smith was
returning to Jamaica and I was. I went to the concert. Actually,
(44:05):
I went to the concert with Sid Masso. Sid Masso
is really the wife of relief Claudie Massop renown West
Kingston strong Man, let's call it right, right, And we
were and they were friends of mine, so they I
(44:29):
was watching the concert of Ernie and I said, Sid,
the girl that is singing back book, because did you
hear our voice? She's a star. I have to meet
this girl. So I waited and and uh, when the
(44:51):
show was over, I went to Ernie, and I said
to Ernie, Ernie, I need to meet this leader man
the because she's so talented. And by the way, Ernie,
who she belonged to, I belonged to, she belonged to herself.
(45:13):
So anyway, I met her and we started a relationship.
And then I realized that bags was managing her, and
Baggs was, you know, getting more involved into her political
career and all of that. So but he said to me, like,
tell me I want to help with her, to manage her,
(45:36):
and she will tell you I did manage her so
and that management has last in so many years. And
but it was amazing relationship in the in the sense
of what we have accomplished. The catalog, I can tell you,
(45:57):
with respect to everyone, there's no catalog that match is hers.
I mean the amount of songs that's just done. I mean,
you know, you have people the Master Griffiths Andrew the Wads,
and they have done great hit songs and they have
not their work great. But the catalog that Carline have
is yet still even to be recognized. Of course, one
(46:22):
of the most significant things about the productions that we
have done had to do with the fight against apartheid right, yes,
because Green Mandela got free from prison. I mean the
impact was so much that it was like in the
middle of the night that we got a call that
(46:43):
Mandela's in Jamaica and they want to meet Carline because
they have to meet this lady. We went, We met
with Mandela's, she met with Winnie Mandela and all of that.
But she had the hit songs like Winnie Mandela will
come home, mister Mandela, Oh gosh, I thank you mister Mandela.
(47:04):
When he died. She's been invited to like let's see
it like they the Embassy of the South African Embassy
invited her special occasions and even the Rotary Club of
Kingston on Mandela Day because in one of these songs
(47:27):
before it happened, she asks in the song we want
a Mandola, da give us a Monday a day. And
that came to fruition that that happened. But you know,
the story is a long one, and we went on.
We recommitted our lives to the Lord, and so we
(47:51):
we came together and we had established an organization called
Glory Music. Glory Music, We've had people like Papa Son,
Junior Talker, among others, and we have developed the biggest
(48:13):
gasper festival in the Caribbean. That's called Fun in the Sun.
Fun in the s N. I'm sorry, that's it, the
s U N the s O and that made the
s U end and uh always said, and and we
(48:38):
do that in We've been doing that now for twenty
two years in Haiti, we do it in the United
States and of course in Jamaica. So that yeah, I love.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yeah, I love that. And of course everybody I'm sure
listening knows that you also have a beautiful daughter who
is also in the music industry as well, and I'm
sure she pulls from both of you in those aspects.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Naomi. Yes, I'm telling your ash as a new song
that's called Cherry on Top. Yes, and tell your listeners
just go online fan Cherry.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Yes, please make sure you stream that. She's so incredibly talented.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
So definitely yeah, man, of course you know Paradise, Yeah, yes,
Oh my goodness. She just recently went to Japan. Oh,
she hosted the b E T Caribby.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
So I was actually there.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yes, she's getting ready to go off the Brazil. And
one of the nice things that just happened that yesterday
Stone Love sent to her you know Stone loves the
legendaries of course. Yes, And for her to do what
you call specials dumb for love, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
And I love the fact that she still has her
own style, you know what I mean. Like it's even
though she's in so heavily influenced, I'm sure by both
of you, and having two parents in the music industry,
it's it's really hard sometimes to make your own way.
But I love that she has her own style and
her own sound. But she's blessed with having two parents
(50:36):
that you know, she can lean on to ask questions
or things like that. That's so amazing.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Yes, yes, And thank you for mentioning that, because you know,
people might think it's an easy place to beat pleased.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Oh, it's very tough.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
They keep comparing you. If you look at the magic people.
Oh it sounds like in father, But I can tell
it is an independent art. Absolutely, She's done a lot
of what you've seen her achieve is not because of us,
but just because of our own drive, her own resilience.
(51:14):
She Yeah, she's like that.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Yes, I love that.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (51:21):
Yeah, man, And I think you're right. I think people
often assume, especially you know, being the daughter of someone
in the music industry as well. They just assume that
it's easier for you, but you're so right, it's much
harder because people place these expectations on you, and you
know you kind of have to carve your own path,
but you also don't. It's not like you're negating or
(51:44):
staying away from the influence that you're In her case,
you're both of your parents have played, but you're your
own person. And I think she's done a beautiful job
of illustrating that for sure.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
Oh yes, oh yes, gives you every time. Yeah, I
love that.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
For our final segment, because I know you have to go,
I could talk to you all day, so we have
to have you and Aunt Karleen come back. But for
our final segment, I'm gonna ask you just a few
rapid fire questions, and I would like you to answer
with the first thing that comes to mind, just a
couple of fun questions. If you had to describe reggae
in one word, what would it be?
Speaker 2 (52:24):
Love?
Speaker 1 (52:25):
Oh, love that Okay? What is the first song you
ever fell in love with as a child?
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Be faithful darling bye at boone.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
At boon Okay Coffee in the morning, or tea at night,
coffee in the moon?
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Love that.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Okay, which festival stage anywhere in the world has felt
the most electric to you?
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Uh, I would say, because electricity goes in different ways.
But is Zimbabwe Ah?
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Okay? For some reason, I figured you would say that
because it was so impactful. Okay too, more.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
Prisoners brought jail to come in.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
That's crazy. Oh my gosh, I can't imagine what that
was like to experience. Okay too. More, what's one lesson
you've learned in the music industry that you'd want every
young artist to know.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
That reggae is a musical vibe going to the four
corners of the world with the hope that through this
music we may unite people of all race or class,
or color, or creed or religion. Music. Reggae music is
uniting the.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
World, beautifully said. I love that. And the final question
before I do my thank you, if you weren't in
music foreign ministry, what is another career that you would
be doing?
Speaker 2 (54:06):
Medicine?
Speaker 1 (54:08):
Oh? Really love that. I was not expecting that. Is
there a reason why.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
It came? It came natural to me because even when
I would do tours, I would do tours like fifty
cities across America, and anybody who was sick, they would
bring them to me. So I would walk on every
tour with a bag of medication. I would go to
doctors and this for that, that for that, that for
(54:39):
sore throat, that for your stomach, agches, this is for
pins and joints. I would have my bag for you.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
Were like a walk in pharmacy, Yes I was.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
I love that I had to get people ready for
seas like Dennis Brown in the past and all that
his voice is gone and he's the star of the show.
I have a ale and people still don't do that
as something's wrong.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
They call me, Oh, that's amazing. Love that. Okay, all right,
Uncle Tommy. Well it's my tradition where I just do
a little thank you at the end to thank my guest. So,
Uncle Tommy, I want to thank you for the stories,
the convictions and the generosity of you taking the time
to speak with me today. And before we go, I
(55:31):
just want to reflect on I'd say three things that
stuck with me in this conversation, and the overarching being partnership,
pedagogy and persistent. So first partnership, the work that you
and Anti Carlene do together, I think shows how artistic
life is rarely solitary. I think partnerships, romantic, familial, spiritual
(55:56):
are often the unsung infrastructure of cultural movements. And you
guys being able to run studios, record labels, festivals with
a life partner really changes the rhythm of decision making
and it's rooted in public ambition and private accountability. So
I think that's so amazing. And the second being pedagogy.
(56:20):
We've spoken about like lyrics as philosophy, and I really
pushed that further. Like you said, reggae is so important
not just in music, but in life and what it teaches.
And I think young artists, much like your daughter Naomi,
are not simply performing songs. They're inheriting ethical framework and
(56:42):
really showing how to treat an audience with dignity. I
think that's so important, how to blend like public witness
with their artistic craft and really steward music so it
benefits a community. I think that's really at the helm
of what your family in general has given the world
with your music. And lastly, persistence. I think it's amazing
(57:06):
to see and again we've only gotten a glimpse at
what you've done in this life, but amazing to see
how you've moved through eras from local sound system to
post colonial nationhood, global festivals and even the contemporary digital
landscape that we're dealing with now, and across all of that.
(57:27):
I just think it shows your perseverance and really a
refusal to let culture, your culture be flattened by cynicism
or anything negative. You're always speaking positivity. You and Aunt
Krlne are always putting that out into the world and
it's reflected through your children. So thank you again for
(57:47):
coming to talk to things with me, and thank you
so much for your contribution to reggae music.
Speaker 2 (57:52):
Bless you, and thank you very much for having me
and in life. I just want to say this that
you know the two great days in your life is
the day you were born and the day you know
why you were born, and of course at a thirty
it is the day that you were born again. So
(58:14):
your purpose is known. Life becomes so natural, but your
purpose is unknown. Abuses inevitable. So know your purpose. It's
very important.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
I love that so beautifully said. Thank you so much,
Uncle Tommy. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (58:31):
God bless you and I love you so much. Love
you is a daughter of Man.
Speaker 1 (58:39):
Yes, you guys got another daughter.
I am deeply grateful for the opportunity to have had
this conversation with the legendary Tommy Cohen, whom I affectionately
call Uncle Tommy, and this episode means so much to me,
not only because of Uncle Tommy's extraordinary career in music
(00:20):
and ministry, but because his story and stories like his,
are not shared enough. Tommy Cohen is not only a
legendary producer, singer and ordained minister, he is an architect
of sound who played a significant role in the foundation
Jamaican music rests today. His fingerprints can be found on
(00:44):
some of the most important moments in Jamaican music history,
with his work spanning not only decades, but genres, movements,
and generations. However, what I find awe inspiring is not
just his long list of accolades and trust me, the
(01:05):
list long like line down, I embassy, but it's the
way he has moved through them with conviction, with humility,
and most importantly, with faith. Many know Uncle Tommy for
his signature phrase yes indeed, and on the surface it
sounds simple, almost casual. However, I see it as a
(01:29):
philosophy that we should all live by to say yes indeed,
to life's contradictions, to welcome its difficulties alongside its blessings,
and to stand with resilience in the face of adversity.
To me, it's an affirmation of endurance and gratitude. Uncle
(01:50):
Tommy has lived this philosophy in the most profound sense,
having undergone heart surgery. His life reminds us that the
heart is never merely a muscle. It's also devotion, courage,
and love. His physical heart was restored, but his heart,
as in his soul, the one that beats through faith,
(02:13):
through music and through family, has remained steady all along.
The spirit of faith and resilience runs through his wife
and children as well. In his enduring partnership with doctor
Carlen Davis Cohen, an icon in her own right, we
(02:33):
see how music and ministry can exist in harmony, each
strengthening the other. And in one of his daughters, Naomi Cohen,
we see how she's able to continue her family's legacy,
carrying freshness and light the weight of tradition, but with
her own voice, proof that even with having iconic parents
(02:57):
as a foundation, you can still honor their legacy in
your own way. The cherry on top that makes legacy
not only lasting, but luminous. As you listen to this
episode and listen to Uncle Tommy's story, I invite you
to listen intently beyond the stories of his music, career
(03:18):
and world stages. Listen for the deeper lessons about family,
about legacy, and about the courage it takes to hold
on to and pursue one's dream while navigating life. Listen
for the pulse of resilience, for the heartbeat of a
man who has learned to say yes indeed with grace,
(03:43):
faith and conviction boom. If you're listening to the podcast
(04:14):
on Apple Podcast, please remember to rate and leave a
comment below. Also, don't forget to follow us on Instagram
at Let's Talk the Tings. Now, grab your tea, coffee,
or a glass of wine and Let's Talk the Tings.
Hello everyone, Welcome back to Let's Talk to Tings, where
(04:36):
we discuss personal growth, travel, music and wellness while encouraging
you to live fearlessly and fabulously. I'm your host, Ash
and this week we are talking to Tings with a
legendary Jamaican producer, singer, promoter, ordained minister and one of
(04:59):
the persons who has played an integral role in shaping
Jamaican music's global footprint. Tommy Cowen, Hi, uncle Tommy, how
are you bless?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Indeed, I really appreciate being here this morning, that today
that I can share with you. Ash, thanks very much,
of course, of course it's such an honor to have
you here, So I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I love music, and as you would know, I've grown
up around music my whole life. So I like to
ask persons that have a really strong musical background, what
is a song that makes them feel empowered? Like any
song from any genre that you can think of.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Wow, that's a good one. First time I've ever been asked.
Let's say the Bridge over Troubled Waters.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Okay, love that? Love that? And is there a particular
reason why you chose that song?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Because as you go on in life, you learn, and
you know, I don't want to jump into this or whatever.
But I it was many many years ago, back forty
fifty years ago. I was with Bob Marley and we
were going to the country and there's a spot if
(06:29):
anybody could thinking of Jamaica, that there was a spot
in the road, a bad place called Cremo, who makes
ice cream, And they were digging up the road and
onto the right hand side of it. After passing there
was Andrew's liver sauce sign that says wake up and
(06:54):
live and you see all the spark coming out of it.
And after going through those things, he we went back
after we did, and he remembered that he was thinking
about it and he wrote the lyrics that says, what
life is one big road with lots of signs when
(07:17):
you're going through the roads. When you're going through the roads,
don't complicate your mind. And it's it's kind of brought
me back to that same thing, like a bridge over
troubled water. We don't complicate our minds because there is
still a bigger power, a higher calling on our life
(07:40):
that will think it over this hurdle. You know that.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
That's beautiful. Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah, it's like we go through the valley of the shadow.
We're not staying in there. We are going through and
we go through even a shadow and you know what
shadows the shadow right now? Yes, yeah, shadows. Shadows are
not real. The estimate is with no substance. Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
So I love that so beautifully said, Thank you so
much for sharing that story too. How you merge the two.
That's wow, that's really really amazing. Thank you for that.
So I want to go back to the very beginning.
You were born in Saint Elizabeth. All right, okay, so
(08:33):
if you can go back to little Tommy, were you
always interested in music or what was your childhood like
growing up in Saint Elizabeth?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Okay? Well, like you you said, you know, and name
is really Thomas col On, Tommy, And I was born
in a place in Saint Elizabeth market in a little
district which I thought that the name of it was
(09:05):
Moco for many years until I had to actually look
at the map and it's called kek e Pp. And
so that's where I was born. I have nine brothers,
two sisters. Grandfather is a white man, my mother is
a black African. He happened to have been the a
(09:31):
Methodist lay preacher for about sixty odd years, and and
that was going up there in in in Saint Elizabeth.
I I recall one one morning though, I'm going to
(09:51):
church and we're taking a shortcut and what is called
a trumpetry birth and gave me a baptism. I don't know.
Trumpet tree is very tall, you know, and those days
you take off your shoes and wait until the reach
to the church that before you put them back on
off your foot because you know we're over your shoes
(10:12):
you want, And and the trumpetry kind of burst all
the way down. And I didn't know about that was
two years, like maybe seven. All the water came out
of the tree and with me from my head right
down and so I in a short while after that anyway,
(10:35):
my father sent me to Kingston mhm. And I started
my life in Kingston, going to have a three primary school.
And yeah, but that in center it is a bit
I mean earlier knew was like you never you never
thought of yourself being because you're living in two rooms
(10:58):
as all that, right, I think of yourself being poor
and all of that. We we go a very good
life to believe that God provides everything. And when we
have the fruits and we only eat chicken once a week,
and we just thought that was it was the order
(11:20):
of life. We do that there was a different life,
ye I think to compare it with so we had
fruits and bread fruit and all the ground propigeons and
just thought that was life. And then on a Sunday
you'd have chicken. But then you just thought of it
(11:42):
that way. And when there was one slice of bread
left into what they call the bread basket, which you
hung into the roof of the house, you just God,
thanks for bread in the basket. You think of, Okay,
it's just one size of bread. We have as nine boys,
fo girls, Come on, we were because and thanks because
(12:06):
we had bread in the basket. Say your brain basket,
never see emptiness.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Wow, that's amazing, and it's amazing just to show you know,
perspective when you don't have anything to compare it to.
You were in your mind you were rich and living
a normal life or already knew yes, yes, oh I
love that. And did you do you have any memories
of music at that time in your life?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Ah, yes I do. We didn't have electricity, we didn't
have running water, and there was one man who came
to the village and he brought a radio. The only
thing we listened on the radio was the village would
(12:52):
come when there's a boxer, Joe Louis, and whenever he
put boxing, it was such a legend that the village
would gather around to hear it on the radio. That
was I don't know what they called it, short wave whatever, However,
(13:13):
my father, my father, because we were at the church
there was an organ there and of course so we
new church music. But my father got a gift from
the United States called a gramophone. I don't know if
(13:33):
you're real what a gramophone is is something you wind up.
You wind it up and then it starts to play.
And you had you got the record, which was the
big seventy eight inch or what they call it at
the time record, And so we got two songs I
(13:55):
recall was one was Jane and Louise will Soon Come Home. Yeah,
And there was another one Whome on the Range. And
those were the two songs. And I thought to myself
(14:16):
as a young kid, where is this coming from? Was
there somebody's head inside of the grammar phone? You know?
That was kind of a mystery to me, that private.
But do my first reference.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
To music, Oh, I love that. I love that. And
then you said you would have gone to Kingston for
primary school. But then a little bit further along into
the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties, I think that was
a time for real musical innovation in Jamaica, like the
sound system culture, the shifting temples of scott into rock
(14:52):
steady and even the social energy of Jamaica being newly independent.
So can you tell us about that time in your
life and kind of walk us through what you heard
and saw as a young person in Kingston.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Well, that was that was like coming into Kingston. I
was a little bit before all of that was happening.
My first recollection of a single in that level that
that time, I think we had one radio station was
(15:29):
a JA under different names, and there was a young
singer that was known for his singing, uh, Jimmy Talker,
and he was famous for singing the Lord's Prayer. And
just to let you know that at that time, when
we found out that about him, he would have had
(15:50):
to go and go to the radio station and he
would sing from the radio station, and he would have
won separate singing talent contests. Yeah, with the Via John's
Opportunity among others. And he went to uh, he went
(16:13):
to Lyndhurst Methodist Church. And I was now living with
my aunt in Kingston, and she went to Lyndhurst and
one day my aunt was kind of a very influential
in the church, of course, so one day she brought
him home and he came to the house and and
he was his son, and she gave him like a
(16:36):
whole tray of like sandwiches, and he ate a lot.
And I was inspired by that. But then I was
going up on Delaquy Road and into that transition now
of where we're here in the first song systems and
Lizay Yeah, and so Maxi Avenue was very musical. I
(17:00):
was looking next to her to people like, there's a
singer called Wilfred Jackie Edwards, Owing Gray. And of course
you had the Munchie sound System down the road from us,
and we've heard of people like what the crossroads to
(17:22):
see here, the music from Tom the Great Sebastian and
all of that, And of course you had the DJs.
When you would walk down as that sneak and go
down there, you would hear about DJ called Willie Penny Lord,
Comic Count Matookey. Those were the first ones you hear of,
(17:44):
you know, I mean later on in life you heard
about King Stitch and and and and you Are and
all that. It's coming up later years, like in the sixties.
The first DJs were those guys, and yeah, oh I
love that.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
I love that And what's your I guess most significant
memory of like the studio one times.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Okay, the studio one times now Like before that student one,
I was going to halfway to school and I don't know,
we would have like a singing at after school and
(18:34):
school get together. And one evening one day I was
invited to send Hughes High School because somebody sung there
and they were having a concert and I was invited.
So I went to send Hughes and I sang M
M a Pat Boone song. It was at the time
(19:01):
April Love is for Yeah, April Love and Yeah, I
think it was April Love. And then after that a
group of guys came to me and said, well, they
were singing there too, and they invited me to join
the group. It was called the Miracles. Yeah, and so
the Miracles as a group eventually with guys at Norrisria,
(19:26):
Martin Williams, I come, Derek Brown was like five of
us in the group at the time, and we we
eventually went to Cox and Yeah, Cox and Dad, and
we did a ska song called Chain Gong h Yeah,
(19:54):
and we did another song. I think all waited so long.
But then after that we went to I must study
this before before After that we went to do greed, right,
(20:15):
you know where we did more like more songs. But
before that, as the Miracles, we were singing, we would
have done talent contests and all of that. There was
a club called Kidding Map that we would go down
there on a Saturday night and us would sing and
we got like one pound fifty pence and we share
(20:38):
that and we walk home and we did several stuff
like boon and all of that. Wow club. But this
is interesting that we know there's this rich man who
was visiting Jamaica and he came down on his ship
and he was He took off his pink kerdilla roll
(21:01):
it off, and he invited us to sing for him
and his girlfriend while they have dinner. Imagine that. So
when we sang and were finishing, gave us shandy to
drink because we're pretty young, and he is a beer
(21:22):
mixed with a soda, right, and he said to us,
he said to us, fellers, you know something, Hm, You're
going to change your name today. You're going to change
your name from the Miracles. I said, yes, you should
do that, and from now you should call yourself the Jamaicans.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
That's how you got the name. Oh my gosh, whoa.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Oh, yeah, he says, he said, you should you should
call yourself the Jamaicans because the music that you are singing,
the music and the songs you are singing, will one
day become great, and you should be the first to
be identified with it. So call yourselves the Jamaicans. And
(22:16):
that was about identity. I didn't know that at the
first I talked read well, called yourself Jamaicans men. I mean,
everybody was the merry, called the merry men, you know, happy, happy,
happy go look, and he's saying, called the self for Jamaicans.
And so that's what we became known as the Jamaicans.
(22:36):
And yeah, and so we are we we went to
Duke Creed and at Duke Creed, we we we got
to do. We were allowed to go into this studio
because you got here about the man with the guns
(22:58):
by side, and you go down and your audition. You
don't have an audition. The minute your audition, you are
add a tool to leave, or you're allowed to crawl
under the door. This place, yeah a half a door,
so you have to ben and go underneath it. So
that's how you you see inside the studio. And so
(23:19):
we we did over I think we went in there,
but we did songs that woman go Home, peace and love.
We did things you say you love You're gonna lose,
And of course we did Baba Boom Time.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
That's my favorite song.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yeah, the festival song of nineteen seven, and that that
was the kind of experience. So and that was now
in West Kingston, and that kind of opened up a
whole different thing for us in the music industry because
(24:04):
that led us to being exposed to people like Byron
and the Dragonairs. You know, we're now appearing more with
the UH, with people like this Catalyzed and and other bands,
the Vikings and UH and and different groups. So and
(24:27):
then you know, that led us to even getting the
outside of the country with the offer. Can you imagine
our first outside appearance was in the Kyman Islands and
we were going and we even had a center of islands.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah. And then so that led to us touring the
Caribbean the United States. Can you know, places like a
man I could remember them. I'm Guyana, you know, because
in the Caribbean and there's another one there that we Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
That's amazing. And so during that time when you were
now exposed to or getting opportunities with the scatellites, Barrony
and the dragonaires. Was that around the time that you
met my dad.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Oh, your dad, you see your dad was Okay. Musicians,
I would say, had their their place in those days.
Musicians were in some kind of way as popular within
(25:56):
the industry as they.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Are sish Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Your dad. Now you know you have had people like
light names. Uh. And of course so he and like
light names were known dramas and because he had an
(26:24):
integral part back in the day when when you see
him and now now you're coming along with you know
after remember sixty six, in nineteen sixty six, we are
we were actually in the festival song competition before and
in sixty six it was split into two a song
(26:48):
and the partun mental competition. So the meters.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Is that for bamba? Was that the year they won
for bamba?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah, yeah, bambastic And so they want that side of
the competition, we want the other side coming along now,
your dad, when you play like with with tooths, now
you become very famous, like you're known like a Jackie Jackson.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Oh yeah, uncle Jackie.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, you know, and and so and and Paul and
and so we we we got to know them, and
when we got to be able to sing along with them,
playing with you. I can't remember the exact events they were,
(27:41):
but but when they play with you, you you're right
about it in any of your references. Yeah, man, I
was back by you know, the great Paul and drums
and Jackie and bass and you know you know who's
seven keyboards and all. Yeah. Yeah, so wow, then when
(28:07):
when with him now? Because I remember as tooths uh
and guys like Bob Marley and Toots breaking Off and
Desgon that can be ass became so well known more internationally,
and whosoever played with them became icons of the industry.
(28:32):
And so Paul Douglas was like, wow, man, you mean
Paul Douglas tune You kidding me? Come on?
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, I'm so happy you're sharing this because my dad
so humble, he would never tell me any of these things.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
No, no, what he was well, that is one of
the things that for us made him more like significant
because he was I would want to I would like
to use maybe the word reserve in this sense that
he never pushed himself up there to say, oh I
(29:09):
do this and I do that. He was more like
a nice person. You know, he never he never pushed
himself as as you know, you had guys like mikeel Richards,
he was another I'm great he had Hawks Brown, you know,
(29:30):
and you had these other guys and but no, that's
kind of address. Never forced himself on the front to
comment sall, hey, this is what you do. That is
what you don't do. You just know that when him
when he's there playing the reading steady, you know, yeah
(29:56):
that Baron iron newsed to this, this Barron Leave. I
remember back in the days were describing as arm as
a drummer that didn't give trouble in balancing his music. Yeah,
because he never overplayed.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I think that's perfectly defined.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Easiest guy too, because when a drummer is there is
always giving the engineer some challenge to balance drama because
they play I had an exciting or either tenure. But
when you look at Paul Douglas and a slide on that,
oh yeah, kind of fine. They're really more into the rhythm.
(30:43):
Rhythm flowing right right, keeps on flowing.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I love that. I love that. Thank you so much
for sharing that story, because of course I had no idea.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
But if you, if you, if you if you if
if you should look at the cat log of music
that has played, yeah, you will see and.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Hear yeah for sure, No, definitely. And that's why I
love having these conversations because I think persons like yourself,
Uncle Sly, Uncle Ken Ken Booth was on here as well.
You guys are just so humble in the impact that
you've had in this industry. I think it's so important
for our generation and even the younger generations to have
(31:27):
some frame of reference as to how the music has
come to what it is today. And so that brings
me to my next point. You went from being in
the Jamaicans to then really putting on your producer hat
and developing a relationship with Bob Marley, as you spoke
about in the beginning, So can you walk us through
(31:47):
kind of that transition from being in that group to
being a producer and maybe management.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
With the Jamaicans. I eventually one night Barrenly came to me,
and of course, back in the day how groups were structured,
you had a leader, singer, and a leader of the group.
So I was the leader of the Jamaicans. I wasn't
(32:16):
the most talented. I was the leader of the Jamaicans,
because you know what they had to say to the guys.
Why did you ask me to join the group as well?
When we were doing the concert at the girls high school.
You're the ones the girls liked. That's why we have
(32:36):
you here, because the girls like Anyway, because because of
what I think, apparently he saw me one night I
was putting the group together to perform, he invited me
to join, to come with him, to join him in
(33:00):
doing records management labor money he had. He had the
rights to a label called Atlantic Records, which was now
being distributed by west in his Records Limited. So we
were he was thinking, boy, he wasn't getting enough out
(33:24):
of the labor the distribution, and I should help him
to to push this forward. And while doing that, something
happened Western these records burned down. He eventually bought the
place and we started what was known as Dynamic Songs
Recorded Company. And so we moved from his garage into
(33:49):
building this place. At Dynamic Songs, I Wash was promoting
and marketing labels such as Atlantic Records, More Town and
and and Colombia and PolyGram, Polydor several others, and so
(34:17):
just to give her oversight and we had to do
the n R n R, which is to listen to
the music and decide which one was to become hits.
So I had, of course been been exposed to the
music of the Platters, the Drifters, Yeah, Jackson five, Aricha Franklin,
(34:43):
Gladys Knight and the Peeps, the Temptations, the Stylistics, and
the list goes after that. For some years. After doing that,
I also had the opportunity of dealing with people I
Ken Lazarus, Vig Taylor, Keith Lynn, Barry Biggs. There's a
(35:07):
blind singer called a Dina Edward for the song I
produced Don't Forget to Remember, became number one. She was
on the street side and amazing story. There was Bois
guard now at list and then of course I have
dynamic sounds. I long story shop, but brought in Eric
(35:31):
Donald's and I produced a song with him called Cherio
Baby song. Yeah, I produced Cherio Baby became a very
big one of the biggest and love of the common
people and several Eric Donalds and his songs. Barry Biggs
was another guy there. And however, with the blessings of
(35:52):
Byron Lee, I must say, and you know, because I
m hmm. We were like okay. So he blessed me
because I thought there was a need, there was a
need for to look after, for a better word, local artists,
(36:16):
Jamaican musicians and Jamaican music. So he blessed me, gave
me a motor car, gave me some money to start,
and I opened a company called Talent Corporation, a booking
and management and distribution agency. And so I started out
there with people like Young Band, Inner Circle with Jacob
(36:41):
Miller and staff, with Berries from Hammond Ras Michael and
the sons of Nigos uh Man, Oh my goodness, Tiger
I had. I had Dubbie Dobson, Dean Fraser. I did
(37:05):
the first Dean Fraser recording, and Junior Talker was another
one who was there, and and others, and of course
amongst the mixed game, Bonnie Whaler of the Whalers and Peters.
I had also distributed song like Legalized with Peter Peter
(37:30):
Barbylon Kingdom. I did the album with Bonnie Wheeler. I
can't remember the name of it now. And at that
same time Bob Marley came and asked me to distribute
two songs with him. He came and play some songs,
(37:53):
and he was saying about the hard time he was
having and having his music being played on radio. I mean,
I had a guy called fred Lax black Star lineup
which came from nothing to to that' to a number one.
He had talked for two years and he brought that
(38:13):
and I said, all right, listen, I've got so much
influence in readers, So listen to the radio. In fifteen
minutes today this you're gonna hear record play. And now
now he still talks about it. You know, a good
Israel vibration for you guys from the Polio rehab center.
(38:33):
We're all gonna sing the same song. And anyway, so
Bob said to me, yes, So I listened to his
songs and I said, this one is a real big
hit called Nati Dread Read naty Red. And then there's
no one called one Drop the job. So I said,
(38:59):
I'm going to put up one drop and see what
I do with it. And so we we did One
Drop and One Drop became a number one record, and
then after that I followed up with with uh Naki
Dred and that was like crazy yeah. And at the
(39:20):
same time, on the same time to also had a
group from England called the Cimarrons who we we made
mm hmm. Cold Ground was my bed last night and
lose and we had him talking lose and also became
(39:41):
a number one. So I do sobab. He wanted me
to put on the album, but it was two castle
at a time and so I went over that. But
then mm hmm. Then after that long story shot, he
(40:02):
had asked me to join his organization. He asked me
to come and say that we put our forces together
at Tough Gun. And I went and joined him at
Tough Gun as his marketing manager of Tough Gun. So right,
(40:28):
I don't remember that was a question.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Aw yes, No, that was more more that I asked for.
That was That's amazing because it's the lead up.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Right then I had quite a bit of experiences with him,
and that was including doing Radisha. I went to Radish
showed him and that's another story of the soldiers coming
and meeting us at Tough Gun and in the and
(41:02):
we they were telling us that when they were losing
the battle, it was his music Wonder War. So he
would be an honor if he could have come through
Rhodesia because they were getting their independence from from the
British colonialism thing, and so I went to Zimbabwe produced
(41:26):
that amazing concert which is well known as Prisoners Broke
Jail because they heard the music coming through the atmosphere
and all of that sort of I think I did
over thirty countries across Europe with him and stuff. I
produced one Love Peace concert with him and and and
(41:52):
the group there.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Yeah and yeah, wow, Uncle Tomy, you've lived quite alife.
We don't even have enough time to go over everything.
That's just so amazing. I have goosebumps. Wow wow, wow, wow,
that's that's so amazing.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
And I met my wonderful, beautiful wife Carlie.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
You read my notes because I literally was about to that.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
I didn't say anything.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Yes, I literally I promise if you could see my notes.
That's the next thing I was going to talk about
and ask you, Oh, you met aunt Carleen, and just
really reflect on, if you could, the fact that you
and not Carleen have built not only creative collaborations, but
also ministry and community programs together. So can you tell
(42:44):
us about your partnership and how that's really shaped who
you are as a person?
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Okay, An, I tell you that is so wonderful that
I just when I say that, I give God thanks
because we've now been together first oh gosh, for five years. Yeah,
it seems like yesterday's uh whoever, hey man, hallelujah somebody.
(43:12):
I I went Bobzi Grange, who is now the Minister
of Culture, Entertainment Sports in Jamaica, and she was involved
with Ernie Smith and these these person's. So I know
(43:37):
that Carlin came here to perform one year as reggae
son Splash, but I was not here in Jamaica at
the time. I was probably out there about mad or something. Well, anyway,
I went. I went to a concert. Ernest Smith was
returning to Jamaica and I was. I went to the concert. Actually,
(44:05):
I went to the concert with Sid Masso. Sid Masso
is really the wife of relief Claudie Massop renown West
Kingston strong Man, let's call it right, right, And we
were and they were friends of mine, so they I
(44:29):
was watching the concert of Ernie and I said, Sid,
the girl that is singing back book, because did you
hear our voice? She's a star. I have to meet
this girl. So I waited and and uh, when the
(44:51):
show was over, I went to Ernie, and I said
to Ernie, Ernie, I need to meet this leader man
the because she's so talented. And by the way, Ernie,
who she belonged to, I belonged to, she belonged to herself.
(45:13):
So anyway, I met her and we started a relationship.
And then I realized that bags was managing her, and
Baggs was, you know, getting more involved into her political
career and all of that. So but he said to me, like,
tell me I want to help with her, to manage her,
(45:36):
and she will tell you I did manage her so
and that management has last in so many years. And
but it was amazing relationship in the in the sense
of what we have accomplished. The catalog, I can tell you,
(45:57):
with respect to everyone, there's no catalog that match is hers.
I mean the amount of songs that's just done. I mean,
you know, you have people the Master Griffiths Andrew the Wads,
and they have done great hit songs and they have
not their work great. But the catalog that Carline have
is yet still even to be recognized. Of course, one
(46:22):
of the most significant things about the productions that we
have done had to do with the fight against apartheid right, yes,
because Green Mandela got free from prison. I mean the
impact was so much that it was like in the
middle of the night that we got a call that
(46:43):
Mandela's in Jamaica and they want to meet Carline because
they have to meet this lady. We went, We met
with Mandela's, she met with Winnie Mandela and all of that.
But she had the hit songs like Winnie Mandela will
come home, mister Mandela, Oh gosh, I thank you mister Mandela.
(47:04):
When he died. She's been invited to like let's see
it like they the Embassy of the South African Embassy
invited her special occasions and even the Rotary Club of
Kingston on Mandela Day because in one of these songs
(47:27):
before it happened, she asks in the song we want
a Mandola, da give us a Monday a day. And
that came to fruition that that happened. But you know,
the story is a long one, and we went on.
We recommitted our lives to the Lord, and so we
(47:51):
we came together and we had established an organization called
Glory Music. Glory Music, We've had people like Papa Son,
Junior Talker, among others, and we have developed the biggest
(48:13):
gasper festival in the Caribbean. That's called Fun in the Sun.
Fun in the s N. I'm sorry, that's it, the
s U N the s O and that made the
s U end and uh always said, and and we
(48:38):
do that in We've been doing that now for twenty
two years in Haiti, we do it in the United
States and of course in Jamaica. So that yeah, I love.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yeah, I love that. And of course everybody I'm sure
listening knows that you also have a beautiful daughter who
is also in the music industry as well, and I'm
sure she pulls from both of you in those aspects.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Naomi. Yes, I'm telling your ash as a new song
that's called Cherry on Top. Yes, and tell your listeners
just go online fan Cherry.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Yes, please make sure you stream that. She's so incredibly talented.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
So definitely yeah, man, of course you know Paradise, Yeah, yes,
Oh my goodness. She just recently went to Japan. Oh,
she hosted the b E T Caribby.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
So I was actually there.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yes, she's getting ready to go off the Brazil. And
one of the nice things that just happened that yesterday
Stone Love sent to her you know Stone loves the
legendaries of course. Yes, And for her to do what
you call specials dumb for love, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
And I love the fact that she still has her
own style, you know what I mean. Like it's even
though she's in so heavily influenced, I'm sure by both
of you, and having two parents in the music industry,
it's it's really hard sometimes to make your own way.
But I love that she has her own style and
her own sound. But she's blessed with having two parents
(50:36):
that you know, she can lean on to ask questions
or things like that. That's so amazing.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Yes, yes, And thank you for mentioning that, because you know,
people might think it's an easy place to beat pleased.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Oh, it's very tough.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
They keep comparing you. If you look at the magic people.
Oh it sounds like in father, But I can tell
it is an independent art. Absolutely, She's done a lot
of what you've seen her achieve is not because of us,
but just because of our own drive, her own resilience.
(51:14):
She Yeah, she's like that.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Yes, I love that.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (51:21):
Yeah, man, And I think you're right. I think people
often assume, especially you know, being the daughter of someone
in the music industry as well. They just assume that
it's easier for you, but you're so right, it's much
harder because people place these expectations on you, and you
know you kind of have to carve your own path,
but you also don't. It's not like you're negating or
(51:44):
staying away from the influence that you're In her case,
you're both of your parents have played, but you're your
own person. And I think she's done a beautiful job
of illustrating that for sure.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
Oh yes, oh yes, gives you every time. Yeah, I
love that.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
For our final segment, because I know you have to go,
I could talk to you all day, so we have
to have you and Aunt Karleen come back. But for
our final segment, I'm gonna ask you just a few
rapid fire questions, and I would like you to answer
with the first thing that comes to mind, just a
couple of fun questions. If you had to describe reggae
in one word, what would it be?
Speaker 2 (52:24):
Love?
Speaker 1 (52:25):
Oh, love that Okay? What is the first song you
ever fell in love with as a child?
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Be faithful darling bye at boone.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
At boon Okay Coffee in the morning, or tea at night,
coffee in the moon?
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Love that.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Okay, which festival stage anywhere in the world has felt
the most electric to you?
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Uh, I would say, because electricity goes in different ways.
But is Zimbabwe Ah?
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Okay? For some reason, I figured you would say that
because it was so impactful. Okay too, more.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
Prisoners brought jail to come in.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
That's crazy. Oh my gosh, I can't imagine what that
was like to experience. Okay too. More, what's one lesson
you've learned in the music industry that you'd want every
young artist to know.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
That reggae is a musical vibe going to the four
corners of the world with the hope that through this
music we may unite people of all race or class,
or color, or creed or religion. Music. Reggae music is
uniting the.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
World, beautifully said. I love that. And the final question
before I do my thank you, if you weren't in
music foreign ministry, what is another career that you would
be doing?
Speaker 2 (54:06):
Medicine?
Speaker 1 (54:08):
Oh? Really love that. I was not expecting that. Is
there a reason why.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
It came? It came natural to me because even when
I would do tours, I would do tours like fifty
cities across America, and anybody who was sick, they would
bring them to me. So I would walk on every
tour with a bag of medication. I would go to
doctors and this for that, that for that, that for
(54:39):
sore throat, that for your stomach, agches, this is for
pins and joints. I would have my bag for you.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
Were like a walk in pharmacy, Yes I was.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
I love that I had to get people ready for
seas like Dennis Brown in the past and all that
his voice is gone and he's the star of the show.
I have a ale and people still don't do that
as something's wrong.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
They call me, Oh, that's amazing. Love that. Okay, all right,
Uncle Tommy. Well it's my tradition where I just do
a little thank you at the end to thank my guest. So,
Uncle Tommy, I want to thank you for the stories,
the convictions and the generosity of you taking the time
to speak with me today. And before we go, I
(55:31):
just want to reflect on I'd say three things that
stuck with me in this conversation, and the overarching being partnership,
pedagogy and persistent. So first partnership, the work that you
and Anti Carlene do together, I think shows how artistic
life is rarely solitary. I think partnerships, romantic, familial, spiritual
(55:56):
are often the unsung infrastructure of cultural movements. And you
guys being able to run studios, record labels, festivals with
a life partner really changes the rhythm of decision making
and it's rooted in public ambition and private accountability. So
I think that's so amazing. And the second being pedagogy.
(56:20):
We've spoken about like lyrics as philosophy, and I really
pushed that further. Like you said, reggae is so important
not just in music, but in life and what it teaches.
And I think young artists, much like your daughter Naomi,
are not simply performing songs. They're inheriting ethical framework and
(56:42):
really showing how to treat an audience with dignity. I
think that's so important, how to blend like public witness
with their artistic craft and really steward music so it
benefits a community. I think that's really at the helm
of what your family in general has given the world
with your music. And lastly, persistence. I think it's amazing
(57:06):
to see and again we've only gotten a glimpse at
what you've done in this life, but amazing to see
how you've moved through eras from local sound system to
post colonial nationhood, global festivals and even the contemporary digital
landscape that we're dealing with now, and across all of that.
(57:27):
I just think it shows your perseverance and really a
refusal to let culture, your culture be flattened by cynicism
or anything negative. You're always speaking positivity. You and Aunt
Krlne are always putting that out into the world and
it's reflected through your children. So thank you again for
(57:47):
coming to talk to things with me, and thank you
so much for your contribution to reggae music.
Speaker 2 (57:52):
Bless you, and thank you very much for having me
and in life. I just want to say this that
you know the two great days in your life is
the day you were born and the day you know
why you were born, and of course at a thirty
it is the day that you were born again. So
(58:14):
your purpose is known. Life becomes so natural, but your
purpose is unknown. Abuses inevitable. So know your purpose. It's
very important.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
I love that so beautifully said. Thank you so much,
Uncle Tommy. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (58:31):
God bless you and I love you so much. Love
you is a daughter of Man.
Speaker 1 (58:39):
Yes, you guys got another daughter.
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