"REMEMBER ME PARTS 1&2" RECAP!

We kick things off with Alison’s whirlwind NYC adventure and her sold-out smash, Confessions of a Prairie Bitch! (Turns out being mean on TV still packs a house.) Dean and Alison are now setting their sights on June's California Gold Country event—sunscreen and bonnets at the ready! Meanwhile, Pamela’s busy on the stage (and working her pattooty off!) with her off-Broadway show Cracked Open, now playing through June.

Then—grab the tissues and cuddle your fur baby—we dive into one of the most tender, tear-jerking episodes of Little House: “Remember Me,” featuring the legendary Patricia Neal. This is the episode that gave us that line:
“Remember me with smiles and laughter, for that is how I’ll remember you. If you can only remember me with tears, then don’t remember me at all.”
(It’s so iconic, they literally put it on Michael Landon’s epitaph. Yes. Really.) Who knew this episode would end up eerily reflecting Michael’s own life just a few years later? Ugh.

But don’t worry—it’s not all heartbreak and handkerchiefs! We also get a wedding! Isaiah and Grace finally tie the knot and step into parenthood like pros. From sorrow springs love, and new beginnings.

This two-parter has everything: death, love, puppies, and yes—Pa’s famously quivering lip.


Want even more? Join us on Patreon where Alison spills some backstage tea about working with Patricia Neal. Spoiler: it's awesome.

Links and Resources:Haven’t signed up for Patreon yet? Link is below!PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/LittleHousePodcast

www.LittleHouse50Podcast.com to connect with our hosts and link to their websites.
www.LivinOnaPrairieTV.com  Check out the award-winning series created by Pamela Bob, with special guest stars Alison Arngrim and Charlotte Stewart.

Prairie Legacy Productions - the place to go for info about all new Little House events!
LITTLE HOUSE ON THE PRAIRIE CAST REUNION Columbia State Historic Park in California’s Gold Country!June 6–8, 2025Secure your tickets now through TIXR athttps://plp.tixr.com/little-house-gold-country

To learn more about Little House on the Prairie, Visit www.littlehouseontheprairie.com
Little House 50th Anniversary Bus Tours - www.SimiValleyChamber.org  select Little House 50th Anniversary and then Bus Tickets

Facebook/Instagram/TikTok:
Dean Butler @officialdeanbutler
Alison Arngrim @alisonarngrim
Pamela Bob @thepamelabob, @prairietv

Social Media Team: Joy Correa and Christine Nunez 

https://www.paclanticcreative.com/


Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/little-house-fifty-for-50-podcast--6055242/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you've been enjoying our podcast as much as we
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Speaker 2 (00:08):
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Speaker 4 (00:37):
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Speaker 2 (01:04):
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Speaker 4 (01:10):
You could join the Little House diftieth anniversary podcast community
on Patreon and become a Prairie Patron for just five
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journey with you on Patreon. We are extremely grateful for
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(01:31):
City of Semi Valley's belief in Little House on the
Prairie and their support of the Little House fiftieth Anniversary podcast.

Speaker 5 (01:39):
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the Prairie. Visit Semi Valley, where adventure meets history and
the spirit of the Prairie comes alive. Explore the Ronald
Reagan Presidential Library, step aboard Air Force One, Enjoy stunning
hikes and saber delicious local cuisine. Whether you're here for

(02:03):
a weekend get away or a family vacation, seem Valley
offers something for everyone and is only thirty minutes from
Los Angeles. Plan your visit today and experience the best
of seem Valley. Go to visit seem Valley dot com
for more details. Your adventurer waits in Seami Valley.

Speaker 6 (02:29):
Well, Hello there, bonnet heads. How are you. I'm Pamela Bob,
your host, creator and star of Livin on a Prairie, you.

Speaker 4 (02:36):
Know, almost weekly. It's peter down a little bit, but
almost weekly. I'd get comments on social media. Our page
is social media like, who the hell is Pamela Pob?

Speaker 6 (02:46):
Like why is she?

Speaker 7 (02:47):
Here? Are you?

Speaker 4 (02:48):
And I say, I announce it every single episode at
the top of the episode.

Speaker 6 (02:52):
I'm Pamela Bob, creator and star of Livin on a Prairie.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
If you haven't watched it, go for it, you'll enjoy
it anyway.

Speaker 6 (03:01):
I am here, right, am I right? Let's get a
let's get all for that.

Speaker 7 (03:04):
Yeah, I want to jump in and before we were.

Speaker 4 (03:06):
Invited, well inviting you now here we go here with
our prairie bitch extraorda and there. That's right, it's Allison Ingram, Hello, Allison,
and my he just had a birthday and everyone was
calling him my imaginary boyfriend, but he's really my original
hashtag my imaginary boyfriend. That's right, He's Dean Butler. Hi, guys,

(03:28):
how are you very good?

Speaker 7 (03:30):
Pamela? You you are such an essential ingredient to all
of this. Who's Pamela Bob. Pamela Bob is funny, bright, insightful,
a little house super fan you are not afraid of
your opinions about about things that you like and maybe
that you you know, have second thoughts about it.

Speaker 6 (03:56):
Thank you.

Speaker 7 (03:56):
You med so much to this. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely,
thank you.

Speaker 4 (04:00):
Well Allison, I'll start off by the recent most goings ons,
because Alison was just in New York City doing Confessions
Ever Prairie Bitch at the cutting Room. And let me
tell you, everybody, I've seen her show at least a
half a dozen times, right, like, at least I think
I've seen it eight times because you live in.

Speaker 8 (04:21):
New York and I always do Mother's Day in New
York always go.

Speaker 4 (04:24):
Yes, and it's my tradition to come see you on
Mother's Day. Yes, I'm going to say this was her
best one yet. It was so frickin' great and the
cutting room was an amazing LORI Beachman was a great venue.
The cutting room was like off the hook, unchained awesome.

Speaker 6 (04:43):
The crowd loved it.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
There was an old cutting room which I played before
before I played the Beach by Bid Fizz, and then
I did the cutting room and then eventually did the Beachman.

Speaker 8 (04:52):
But they said, you want to go back to the
cutting room. They got a hold space.

Speaker 9 (04:55):
Sure, and it was I'm going back there again.

Speaker 6 (04:58):
That's the place, man, that's the yeah.

Speaker 7 (05:01):
So was this a saltier take on Confessions of a
Prairie Bitch or was this I mean.

Speaker 6 (05:06):
It's pretty salty.

Speaker 9 (05:08):
I mean, it wasn't salty er. It wasn't saltier Confessions
at the Nightclub.

Speaker 8 (05:13):
It's the grown up show.

Speaker 6 (05:16):
I will tell you.

Speaker 4 (05:16):
What she added was a new section about the Netflix series,
which was so well done and so good and truly funny.

Speaker 6 (05:28):
And she was just in the flow. I'm talking, Alison.
I'll let you talk in a second.

Speaker 4 (05:32):
But she was just so in the flow of it,
and the crowd was just I mean, you know when
you have command of a crowd and they are just
there for everything. They were just there for everything, and
she was so comfortable and in the zone, and there
was no like she was genuinely funny, which Ellison is

(05:54):
genuinely funny, but you know, she was genuinely funny. People
were just dying and her stories were awesome, and the
show is great. It was just it was a tight,
great show, and she was in the zone and it
was so wonderful to see.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
It was I I did address and Netflix thing because
I said, it's going to be great, and how we're
supportive of the cast and we're supportive.

Speaker 8 (06:17):
Of the show.

Speaker 9 (06:17):
And I said, in these just ridiculous.

Speaker 8 (06:20):
People worried about the show.

Speaker 9 (06:21):
They're worried that they're going to make it weird.

Speaker 8 (06:24):
And I said, really, really, what are they going to do?

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Have someone perhaps get raped and murdered by men and
a clown mask. They have a maybe in a fire, Oh,
I don't know, perhaps an entire episode about an orangutank.

Speaker 9 (06:36):
Maybe we're pushing down in a wheelchair.

Speaker 6 (06:38):
How are you.

Speaker 9 (06:39):
It's so funny to make House of the Prairie weird.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
We already didn't make it weirder than we did.

Speaker 6 (06:47):
It was so good, it was so funny. People were dying.
It was just such a smart take.

Speaker 10 (06:54):
It was so good that there's something And of course
I would imagine in a space like that, people are,
People are sitting down with you, they're.

Speaker 7 (07:06):
Ready to laugh, they're waiting, they want to have fun. So, Pamela,
what you said about that that energy when everyone is
there for everything, those are magical times.

Speaker 4 (07:20):
Yeah, and then she delivered, So it only intensified as
the whole I mean, the whole night was just so
it was just so great.

Speaker 6 (07:27):
It was great. I was so tired.

Speaker 8 (07:30):
You can have many.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
Little houses, how many star treks are there? I said,
we will always be shatt or Nimoy. Yeah, we're good,
but I said, I want Captain Picard in my life.

Speaker 8 (07:40):
I want there to be more.

Speaker 6 (07:42):
Yeah, it's okay. Yeah. It was so smart, it.

Speaker 8 (07:45):
Was it was so it was great and people just
they were just like, yes, this is the message.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, because there were some diehard fans or die hard fans, yeah,
but they were like, yes, hello, duh, you can't make
it weird in the original.

Speaker 4 (07:56):
Yeah, And it was just so funny and it made
sense and and lovely thing too, because Allison always has
when you enter her show before she comes out, there
are cards on every table and for for you to
write any questions that you have. And I'm very it
was very lovely that people really talked about the podcast
and everything and question that was really nice.

Speaker 7 (08:18):
Nice. Did they say nice things about you, Pamela.

Speaker 6 (08:20):
Well they mentioned living on a prairie too, so that
was really nice.

Speaker 4 (08:24):
So listeners, if you don't know who I am, even
people are asking Alison at her shows about there and
I kept thinking.

Speaker 9 (08:31):
Pamela, did you write this cover?

Speaker 8 (08:34):
It was so good?

Speaker 1 (08:36):
But you have my ask Allison anything cards, and they do,
and they do and they do. Yeah, they had a
couple of stories about my mother because it's Mother's Day.
Always tell extra stories about my mom. I have all
the cartoons, but I had some more wacky stories.

Speaker 6 (08:49):
From my Yes.

Speaker 7 (08:50):
Did anyone ask about Columbia coming up on June second
of June June six and eight?

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Oh yeah, we did, well, we certainly plug that because
I should guess.

Speaker 7 (08:58):
Well, here I just have to show you. Here is
the event poster.

Speaker 6 (09:03):
Oh wait, put in more center. We have a poster there.

Speaker 7 (09:06):
It is off the yes, so hot off this was.
This was by Orlando de la Pause who Orlando is
a little House treasure and so he created this obviously
other than the little house itself, which is from southern California,
but the other elements are all things that were captured

(09:29):
in Gold Country. And of course they could have gone
on and on and on with that. He could have
picked many things, but he picked what he picked. And
I think it's going to be a lovely poster, a
collectible poster at the event.

Speaker 6 (09:42):
So it's going to be great.

Speaker 7 (09:44):
Yes, June six and eight. Little Housegoldcountry dot com for
information and tickets. There are going to be thirteen fourteen
of us there. Columbia is absolutely gorgeous. The Sierra Railroad
is a beautiful, beautiful setup for a ride through Gold

(10:04):
Country on Saturday evening. It's you know, we've we did
an event years ago in Gold Country in the nineties.
It was a film festival, so we appeared at the
film festival. This is really the first time we've done
a Little House specific event in Gold Country, and Gold
Country plays such an important role in the beauty of

(10:26):
Little House, so we think this is a great way
to kick off the second half century of Little House
love going to Gold Country.

Speaker 6 (10:33):
And that's the craziest statement, Are you going to Are
you going to?

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Like?

Speaker 7 (10:36):
Of course you can't because you've got a show going
that weekend, I know. So you're not gonna be able
to just like play hooky and jump on an airplane
and come out and see us. So all right, we
need to jump into this. But are you having fun
in your show?

Speaker 4 (10:49):
Yes, we finally opened. Allison saw it when she was here.
She saw one of our last previews. It's been a
hard journey mostly because it's a very very dark and
highly emotional peace. So I do have a anxiety attack
and mental breakdown every show, which is.

Speaker 7 (11:11):
Actually you look, you look look really good.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
Right now.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
You're playing a mom whose firstborn child, daughter is having
a mental breakdown and is apparently having like early onset
you know, schizophrenias and his institutionalized break and has to
go into the hospital and they're wondering if you're going
to be able to come out she's going to be even.

Speaker 6 (11:33):
Stabilized, Yes, exactly.

Speaker 8 (11:37):
And then the.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Youngest daughter is in great distress because she loves her
older sister, and you, in real life are a mom
with two kids.

Speaker 9 (11:44):
So the terror for a mother to see.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Her child go through that, and is her child ever
getting out of the hospital, is ever going to work out?
You have two kids, so that terror would be palpable
and real, and that comes off on stage. So yeah,
it's it's it's not exactly a happy, cheery tiptoe through tulips.

Speaker 6 (12:04):
No, it's it's really intense.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
I'm very tired when the show is done, which is
why two shows on Saturdays is very rough.

Speaker 7 (12:11):
I'm sure, well, you get you get to pace yourself
really well. You get to. Yeah, as you learn the
rhythm of it, you know, you figure out that's always
that that interesting growth phase that you go through.

Speaker 6 (12:22):
And yeah, of how to take care of the energy, yes, even.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
What to eat and like how long of a nap
you need? And yeah, all that.

Speaker 6 (12:32):
Your number one your number one tip snacks.

Speaker 7 (12:36):
Yeah, I mean you know that for people who haven't
done this before. For actress walking into you know, the
curtain goes up and ate whatever time it goes up,
but the show begins. Really, the show is all day. Yeah.
You you especially performance you are you are pacing yourself
through the day to get to that totally rising with

(12:58):
everything you need to get through that to deliver that performance.
And it's quite an exercise and I think you know,
working in that environment, it's very demanding.

Speaker 6 (13:11):
It is.

Speaker 4 (13:11):
I'm just glad it's not a musical because I don't
need that extra layer of like you know, when you
do a musical, you wake up every morning and the
first thing you do is is it?

Speaker 3 (13:21):
There?

Speaker 7 (13:21):
Are we okay?

Speaker 4 (13:22):
Is it? And any little tickle or bug or I
mean it's just it's so stressful.

Speaker 6 (13:27):
It is so stressful. This one.

Speaker 4 (13:29):
I get to just live easefully and then get to
the theater and not worry about that aspect.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
But anyway, terrified as to what you would have to
sing about in this music.

Speaker 6 (13:41):
True, true, that would be a that would be an
interesting take.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
Yes, anyway, the show is called, uh, cracked up and
that's up. Yeah, and it's all theater cracked open, not
crack creckt open. Jesus, I'm even forgetting this is that
I'm a little tired, you guys. Correct open, or as
we like to call.

Speaker 6 (14:04):
It, busted wide open. That's sort of more it.

Speaker 4 (14:11):
Yeah, it's it's the and the the relationship between the
husband and the wife, how that completely fractures, how he
can't handle what's going on, and how she sort of
has to step it.

Speaker 9 (14:22):
Girls playing the daughters just they're so good.

Speaker 4 (14:27):
Yeah, the cast is the cast is incredible. So anyway,
that's it. It's running through June, so I'll be depressed.

Speaker 6 (14:33):
Speaking of depressed, and.

Speaker 8 (14:38):
We're gonna talk about a sad episode.

Speaker 4 (14:39):
No, this is a sad episode. Okay, this is a
beautiful episode. But yes, coming up today, it's a very
very touching episode of Little House guest starring one of
the most beloved actresses of her era, but first produced
in the studios of ubn GO in Burbank, California.

Speaker 6 (14:56):
This is a Little.

Speaker 4 (14:57):
House fiftieth anniversary podcast. Okay, Dean hit it. What episode

(15:20):
are we talking about?

Speaker 6 (15:20):
Episodes?

Speaker 7 (15:22):
Yes, right, it is a two part now with the
way it's positioned way it streams now, it really streams
is one episode, but it was two. Today's episode is
season two, episodes seven and eight. Remember Me, Remember Me
premiered on November fifth, nineteen seventy five. Written and directed
by Michael Landon. I think this. There are elements of

(15:44):
this episode that are so quintessentially Michael and his whole
take on so many different things. One of his most
quoted lines of dialogue, which interestingly is generally quoted to
Laura Ingles Wilder as it's really funny, the line, remember
me with smiles and laughter, for that is how I

(16:06):
will remember you. If you could only remember me with tears,
then don't remember me at all. That's sort of a
I don't know how I feel how he finished that,
but remember me with smiles and laughter, because that's how
I will remember you. It's a really is a lovely idea.
Patricia Neil the beautiful. Actress Patricia Neil said the line

(16:28):
in the had the line in the episode, and interestingly,
Melissa Gilbert quoted the line at Michael's funeral service in
July of nineteen ninety one as part of as part
of her remarks, which were some of the most beautiful
remarks I'd ever heard. Melissa, who's incredibly articulate, was really

(16:50):
really spectacular in that situation what she was able to
share because this was obviously a huge moment for her.
Alison were all there. I mean, it was just, you know,
it was really really strong. But this line remember me
was a very special part of that episode, and a

(17:11):
very special part became a very special part as a
signature in Michael's life.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
So I can't even hear those words without kind of
choking up because it was so Michael. As we know,
Mike's laugh, it was all about the joke's laugh and
literally it was remember me with smiles, the laughter.

Speaker 8 (17:29):
I can't say that's how I remember you all.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
If you can only remember me with tears, don't remember
me at all. And it's heart wrenching in this episode.
But then when it became Michael's literally Michael's epitaph, yes,
and because smiles the laughter, it was like it just
plunged knife into chest. It's just it's it's an incredible thing,

(17:53):
and that he wrote that and that that was so
much absolutely who he was, and then we see.

Speaker 8 (17:59):
It played out in this episode. It's just like.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
To not you know, he died in ninety one. No,
this is still early the idea that this would mirror
his life in such a way. This episode a band
with so having to tell his children he still had
young children at the time that people buy it, and
he didn't. By the time he found out a pangetic cancer,
he did not have very long to live. It was

(18:22):
not so late late. He was on The Tonight Show
in May talking about his diagnosed as revealing it to
the world. Been diagnosed April, spoken to Johnny Carson in May,
and he died July. Yes, he had that little time,

(18:44):
like Patrician Neil says in this episode, a month a month?

Speaker 8 (18:47):
Do I have a month?

Speaker 4 (18:48):
Yes?

Speaker 8 (18:49):
And he had children.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
So this horrifyingly is this like prequel to Alice?

Speaker 8 (18:56):
So I can't watch it.

Speaker 7 (18:59):
Allison give it the synopsis of what the just for
those of you who may not be really really familiar
with it. Give us the synopsis.

Speaker 9 (19:06):
Absolutely heartbreaking episode. It's really good.

Speaker 8 (19:09):
It's one of the brutal ones.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
The widow Julius Anderson with her three young children, Carl
and Alisha, brings warmth and kindness to the community, and
she has a sense of humor too.

Speaker 8 (19:19):
She's awesome, but.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Her visit to Doc Baker reveals heartbreaking news. Julia is
terminally ill and has only a short time to live.
Determined to ensure her children are cared for after her death,
Julia turns to Charles Singles for help.

Speaker 8 (19:32):
Move by her dignity and strength.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
Charles promises to find good homes for all three children.
Julia's final days are spent preparing them for life without her,
urging them to remember her.

Speaker 8 (19:43):
Not with sadness, but with joy and love. It's really harsh.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
After Julia passes away, to townspeople rally together to help
Charles place the children, but a major obstacle arises. No
single family is willing to adopt all three. Charles faces
the painful possibility of separating the siblings, particularly devastating for
the youngest de Leisha. In the end, the solution comes
from an unexpected source.

Speaker 8 (20:06):
Yes, that's right.

Speaker 9 (20:08):
Isaiah and Grace Edwards.

Speaker 7 (20:10):
They weren't Isaiah and Grace Edwards what but they And.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
He's kind of sort of girlfriend who doesn't admit is
his girlfriend.

Speaker 9 (20:18):
Yes, yes, yeah, because he has never told me.

Speaker 8 (20:20):
People keep kissing me in front of people.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
And Grace, who is in fact having a thing that
mister Edwards says, if we're in the eighteen Edwards they
chase thing but a thing and they realized they recognize
the children's deep bond and moved by their own longing
for a family. Having faced much heartbreak in their lives,
they open their hearts and home to adopt.

Speaker 9 (20:41):
As they wind up.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
Getting married just to take the kids in the Yeah, yes,
it's it's.

Speaker 7 (20:47):
That was the era. Yeah, heart break, that was the era.
That's what you would did. Now.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
In this case, they were already madly in love and
he was just not admitting it. But by God, in
the eighteen hundreds, there were people like, well, I don't
know him well, but mister Jones is a decent man
and makes Yeah, he's very polite at church, and we
must care for these children. Yes, ma'am, I shall be
kind to you and you will have your own room.

(21:14):
But we're taking in those kids and they got married.
People did this, Yeah, they did this. These two are
love and it works out, but yikes, yikes.

Speaker 6 (21:22):
Well it works out until the orangutang comes along. But
that's later, yea.

Speaker 7 (21:30):
Later, you know, right off the bat. One of the
things that struck me about this episode as you see
the little white fluffy puppies with the with the dark
brown you know, short haired, uh looks like sort of
a you know a mix of whatever, and and the

(21:51):
and the puppies are taken away. I think that was
a that was a strong way this.

Speaker 4 (21:59):
Have you seen these episodes before? This is your first
time at the rodeo time?

Speaker 6 (22:05):
Okay, this is good. No, this is good, this is good.
We need to know these things. Okay, I'm so excited.

Speaker 8 (22:09):
I had seen it a lot.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
I watched like highlights this morning.

Speaker 9 (22:15):
I couldn't take it.

Speaker 4 (22:16):
Well, let me tell you something about growing up and
looking at this episode. The puppies being put in that
bag sack and then thrown into the river is a
permanent core memory of every child that has ever.

Speaker 6 (22:32):
Seen this episode before.

Speaker 4 (22:34):
I mean, I remember my sister and I like falling,
absolutely balling. It is such a core memory of these
puppies in the sack and and them rescuing them, and
then Mary thinking that the last one is dead, and
then it isn't, and you know they're those little girl's reactions.

(22:55):
You know, it seems so over to the top, but
it's not. It's not for a child, and when you're
a child old watching it, you're experiencing exactly that. And
it is again, it's just like I don't know any
other show where it's from the child's perspective but also
totally adult at the same time.

Speaker 7 (23:17):
That would be a devastating That would be a that
would be a big, devastating, devastating, scarring moment.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yes, anybody to watch that, right to introduce an episode
that's going to be about loss and death of what's
every child's worse for that your mother might die? Yeah,
exactly to introduce this and open with possible murder and
horrible death of puppies.

Speaker 8 (23:39):
And then the pup that's I guess it sets.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
The tone that we're going to be introducing death to
your kids.

Speaker 8 (23:45):
We'll start with the puppies.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah, this is going to be about the ultimate death
and loss and scare the Bejesus at you.

Speaker 7 (23:52):
Yeah, I think it's such an interesting way for Michael
to have stepped in and raised the emotional stakes of
this right off the and and this this ab story
flows through the entire two parts from you look at
from the from the adult practicality side, and then from

(24:13):
the child's totally emotional perspective about about loss and the
heartbreak of that. It's it's really a beautifully constructed episode.
I mean, the first hour, the first hour is really
all about coming to grips with Julie. Is what's going
to be Julia's passing and her coping with this. And

(24:36):
the second hour, the second hour of the two parter
is about finding home, family for the for the children,
and and this and the parallel of the puppies flows
right through it.

Speaker 4 (24:50):
I thought such a vulnerability and excuse me, an extra
layer of vulnerability.

Speaker 6 (24:56):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 7 (24:57):
I thought it was, you know, beautiful, the way Michael
drew and the way Patricia Neil, who was such a
special actress and now she was There's a great backstory
on this is that she had just gone through a stroke.

Speaker 8 (25:13):
Isn't that right that she had her stroke?

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Because I followed her will An Actress Academy awarded to
that Patricianiels Patrician eil Hello. She had a massive stroke.
Was in the sixties and she had to learn.

Speaker 6 (25:28):
To walk and talk and she was young.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
Oh yeah, and had children and it was like, how
we're going to care for the children, the whole thing,
and she had to walk and talk again, and they
weren't sure it was going to work, and her brain
she wasn't sure she's going to have memory. But there's
a haha and sort of I guess it's funny now
story that apparently she was just recovering well enough that
the family were having outings and going to the movies.

Speaker 9 (25:53):
But it was the sixties and they went to see
the Beatles.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Movie Help, which doesn't have a linear plot and it's almost.

Speaker 8 (26:02):
And they went and saw it and then she they
like find she like hid.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
She didn't want to tell Anybody's like crying, and they
what's wrong?

Speaker 9 (26:09):
Well, I gonna, yeah to go back to the hospital.
I couldn't make any sense.

Speaker 8 (26:13):
Of the movie. Movie didn't make any sense.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
And they're like, oh, sorry, yikes, no, the movie doesn't
make it doesn't make sense.

Speaker 7 (26:21):
Right, exactly right, do a movie.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
That had no linear plot and didn't make any sense
and scared her half out of her wins. She was
sober if she had had when we shot this episode,
because she had had such enormous health concerns and memory constricus.
They had a teleprompter in that church scene they had
they had the old school like it was like a
thing on a roll, practically very basic, but they had

(26:45):
They said, do you want this?

Speaker 8 (26:46):
Do you can have the scripture? Can tell we'll do anything?

Speaker 1 (26:48):
Well, they bowing, and it was like she might as
well have been you know, Dame Patricia Neal or yes,
and they said do you need this?

Speaker 8 (26:59):
And she and I remember they put.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
In the thing with all the whole monologue on it,
trusting case. It was like, you know, Michael, what do
you need? What do you need just in case we're
going to make this work.

Speaker 9 (27:09):
She she didn't look at that thing. She never didn't
glance in its general direction.

Speaker 8 (27:14):
Even she didn't need nothing.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
And she's so brave and so incredible, but yeah, she
she had to learn to walk a doctor. So when
you hear her very mannered speech, which was a very
educated woman, is how she spoke.

Speaker 8 (27:28):
But also she had.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
Back again, that's you know how many people have done that.

Speaker 8 (27:33):
That's not like a normal thing. It's really hard. I've
known people have done it.

Speaker 7 (27:36):
It's not fun, you know, I think, what's so, What's
she made a wonderful She made wonderful choices. And how
she did this that she approached all this with such
optimism and such hope and resolve to make it as

(27:57):
make it as positive an experience as she could for
her children, knowing that this tragedy is going to be
This is a really obviously a very difficult moment, but
really a wonderful example for people of how I get this.
We speak about this with Little House all the time.
It's foundational lessons. We always have choices as to how
we're going to deal with the things that come our

(28:19):
way in life. And now you know, Michael got his
quivering lip when he learns the news, But she's not.
She's not. She is not going to approach it with sadness.
She's approaching it with hope. And yeah, it's very powerful
and everyone's terrific.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
In My favorite moment of hers in this episode is
not the big speeches or the monologue. It was when
Doc Baker gave her the news where she figured out like, oh,
I'm dying and she ends the scene by just going, well,
I'll be darned and leaves the office.

Speaker 6 (28:57):
It was so.

Speaker 4 (29:00):
So simply and so matter of factly, but loaded with
so much. But the way that she just delivered that
was I was like, whoa, that's a masterclass.

Speaker 6 (29:12):
The way she just did that one line was a
total actor's masterclass.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
It was so realistic because what what would you do
after she got through how long do I have?

Speaker 8 (29:21):
Well?

Speaker 1 (29:22):
And when she tells bosses, well, that's a heck of
a thing to just drop on her neighbor, right haha.
And then he tries, he tries to cry, and she's
like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, We're not doing that.
One of my favorite lines. There's so many of my
favorite lines in the show. I wrote one down when
she says she doesn't want people to take her children
out of pity. Pity wears out pretty quickly and is

(29:43):
a poor substitute for love. For love was like thump,
that is one that's one of there's like a list
of great lines in this show, and that's one of them.

Speaker 8 (29:52):
Pity is substitute for love.

Speaker 4 (29:54):
Although I will say you want to hear what I
have an issue with.

Speaker 6 (29:59):
I always have an she with something. It's so again,
it's so.

Speaker 4 (30:03):
Interesting revisiting these episodes as an adult versus how your
perception of it as a child watching it. So okay,
So she tells her children, and in.

Speaker 6 (30:13):
One hand, it's very positive.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
She's she's you know, the way that she's saying it
is like God has chosen me. I must have done
something really good because he wants me to come.

Speaker 6 (30:23):
Early and I'm going to see your father up in
heaven and it's gonna be awesome.

Speaker 4 (30:28):
And of course her children are devastated because they're realizing
their mother is going to die.

Speaker 6 (30:34):
And John Junior starts.

Speaker 4 (30:36):
Crying and then she yells at him, and I am like, girl,
let him feel his feelings first, Like please, please let
them feel their feelings.

Speaker 7 (30:48):
Crying.

Speaker 6 (30:50):
Yeah, I and I listen.

Speaker 4 (30:51):
I get the sentiment of it totally, absolutely, But in
that moment, as a mom also watching it, I was like, no,
let them, let them be upset just for a minute.

Speaker 6 (31:01):
And then she was like, okay, off to bed, and
I was like, what.

Speaker 9 (31:04):
Wait a minute. And that was going to be the
scene I said, just watching it.

Speaker 8 (31:11):
Oh, Pamel's gonna hate this place.

Speaker 7 (31:13):
I thought about it.

Speaker 9 (31:15):
Wow, that that's harsh, that's hard.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
She's like, well, the kid's going to heaven, and that's
how it is stopped crying.

Speaker 8 (31:19):
But then, oh my god, it's the eighteen hundreds. Yes,
it would have been worse than that. It would have
been worse.

Speaker 6 (31:25):
Than would have been actual survival.

Speaker 8 (31:28):
She was being nicer to them than a mother who
was turning.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
He would have marched in there and said, well, you
kids better figure out how you get jobs.

Speaker 9 (31:37):
Tomorrow because I'm not going to be much longer.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
And she might have slapped him for crying because he's
a big boy. The teenage boys. She would have said, no,
you're a man of the house. But she would have
she would have decked him from because.

Speaker 6 (31:48):
It's it's literal survival for them. You can't cry.

Speaker 8 (31:52):
There's not enough time. They have to find homes.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
And so the fact that she was nice about it
instead of going to heaven and yes's will all be
in heaven, that was being a super super understanding. Now
in the eighteen seventies, Yeah, it probably would have been
more heartless and brutal than even we.

Speaker 8 (32:11):
Can imagine, you know.

Speaker 7 (32:12):
Just it occurs to me as we're talking about the
scene that another version of the scene was done twenty
years later in Terms of Endearment, where dever Winger has
this scene, the same scene with her children in the movie,
and it's very, very touching the way it's done, and

(32:33):
she's much more. She allows for the tears to happen
the way it's written. James L. Brooks directed the scene,
and it allows James Brooks allows that emotion to come out,
and she's she's she tries to hold it in, but
the children are allowed their moment of emotion. It's very touching.

Speaker 6 (32:57):
You know.

Speaker 4 (32:58):
Margo, my daughter, Margo, she she cannot put herself to
sleep at night. We have to lie down with her,
we have to snuggle her to sleep. She has not
been able to like self, soothe herself to be in
her room and put herself down, And most nights in
the middle of the night she's coming into our bed
and it's it's just that's just Margo. And we know

(33:21):
that one day she will grow out of it, so
we've been sort of patient with it. But the other
night she was just like, I just needed to leave
her room because I'd work to do and it was
getting late and she hadn't fallen asleep yet.

Speaker 6 (33:32):
And I was like, Margo, please please.

Speaker 4 (33:33):
I was getting sort of angry, like you have to
learn how to put yourself down now, like you're seven
years old. Now it's time, Like you're a big girl,
let's do it. And she'd started crying and she said,
but I can't.

Speaker 6 (33:43):
I'm scared. And I was like, what are you scared of?
And she said, I'm scared something's gonna happen to you,
Oh Lord, which was something I had never thought of before.

Speaker 4 (33:55):
Of Oh, she's not scared to be alone in her room.
She's scared some thing's gonna happen to her mommy outside
of the room. That's a new element to that, Like
there's a twist like holy Molly, and it.

Speaker 6 (34:07):
Broke my heart.

Speaker 4 (34:09):
But you know, thinking about these little kids with this
mother saying, hey, I'm not going to be here much longer.
Is I mean, just the thought of you know, being
worried about mom not being in the same room when
you're going to sleep, and then something like this happening.
I just it's just so devastating.

Speaker 6 (34:27):
It's so it is.

Speaker 4 (34:30):
Yes, movie opens with that Bambi the dead mother.

Speaker 8 (34:35):
Yes, mom dies.

Speaker 6 (34:36):
All of their moms are dead.

Speaker 9 (34:41):
To the evil step mother.

Speaker 6 (34:43):
All those princesses mothers are dead.

Speaker 9 (34:44):
Horrible is going to happen, and fairy tales with the
evil mom.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Dying that because that is children's number one fear, and
that is why all the fairy tales start with mom
is dead and there's a step one.

Speaker 6 (34:54):
Yes, yes, because.

Speaker 9 (34:56):
That's the number one anxiety issue for children.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
Okay, let's get to the funeral and then we'll take
a break.

Speaker 8 (35:05):
If that's your anxiety.

Speaker 9 (35:06):
Issue, because this is all about.

Speaker 8 (35:08):
Having your mom dieing your job.

Speaker 6 (35:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. And then she passes away and
we're at a very.

Speaker 7 (35:16):
Rain and that it's sort of so Michael the way
he did this pulling back as the children are on
her bed, with her pulling back, the world is crying
with the rain coming down on the you know, on
the windows, and we cut. We do a hard cut
to the funeral service. Very cinematic the way the way

(35:38):
Michael did that. I mean, you don't need any more
explanation than that.

Speaker 4 (35:42):
I'll also add, sorry, one other thing to the discussion
about death and the kid's perspective.

Speaker 6 (35:49):
So we we we.

Speaker 4 (35:51):
He juxtaposes the scene with you know, Patrician Neil telling
her children and being like not allowed to cry, like
buck up, You're gonna be fine, like here we go.

Speaker 6 (35:59):
And then then next is Laura, Laura's you know.

Speaker 4 (36:04):
When they find out about it, and the conversation that
they have with Paw about it, And I thought that
was really important too, And I thought also from the
child's perspective, and I remember being a child and watching
it and how important that was to hear the child's
perspective to know about death and dying, and a really

(36:28):
important element that. Also the Ingles kids also had that
discussion as.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Well well, and in the church when she lays it
out one of my favorite teens, when they pull back
and there's Nelson Harriet.

Speaker 6 (36:39):
And everyone's just silence. The silence is staring.

Speaker 8 (36:43):
In horror, just frozen, like well all right.

Speaker 4 (36:46):
Then even as they're walking out, no one, it is silent.
How powerful is that?

Speaker 7 (36:55):
And then what doesn't she say? Where are we going
to for a picnic?

Speaker 8 (36:59):
Now?

Speaker 7 (37:00):
Mean, Julie, it turns it now we're going to a picnic? Yeah,
and everyone everyone steps in and realizes that, you know,
that life goes.

Speaker 6 (37:10):
On right and joy.

Speaker 7 (37:13):
It's it's really really moving, It's it's powerful, it's instructive.
It's and in such capable hands, you know, and the dealers.

Speaker 8 (37:24):
So directly with death.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
And that's the thing we forget now we are very
often and in modern age, and we've had, certainly.

Speaker 8 (37:32):
In the last few years, got a little view of death.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
People are more sheltered from direct contact with death nowadays.

Speaker 6 (37:39):
Totally your children.

Speaker 9 (37:42):
There was a phase and I'm so glad this phase
is over of let's.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Not talk about death with the children at all, and
let's never take them to a funeral, let's.

Speaker 7 (37:50):
Not even really was that? Was that a thing?

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Oh no, the child shouldn't go to the funeral to
be too much, And it was really old fashioned.

Speaker 9 (37:57):
It was like, yeah, the fifties, thank god, Like people,
what are you crazy?

Speaker 4 (38:01):
You can't do that, Just like you never talked about cancer.
It was the sea word and you never talked about it.
I certainly didn't talk about in front of the children.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
When people wouldn't tell children their parents were dying, they
would absolutely drag that out and they do not tell
kids and not not confront it directly. And then that
changed thy Kevin's and people start, no, children have to grieve,
they have to go to the funeral. But in the
eighteen hundreds, because sadly, we know that was the brave.
People died all the time, there were Jesus and accents, and.

Speaker 6 (38:28):
Children died all the time and constantly, and there.

Speaker 8 (38:32):
Was a much more direct contact.

Speaker 9 (38:33):
So for her, as terrible as it is, she's like, well,
kind of like, well, your.

Speaker 8 (38:37):
Father, you know how when people die.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Yeah, well that's happening again and it's awful, and the
church direct contents just coming.

Speaker 8 (38:46):
Hey, guys, I'm dying shock.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
But you death was a palpable thing that was there
next to you all the time. There was no sheltering
anybody from death out on the prairie.

Speaker 4 (38:57):
And the well, like we've talked about to us now, right,
I mean how we've talked before. Literally, if you didn't
chop enough wood, you were dead in the winter, you
would die. Like it must have been that death had
to have been a palpable something always there, not just

(39:19):
not just the wood, but disease and you know everything.
There weren't any antibiotics in the eighteen hundreds, so you know, right,
Doc Maker could only do so much.

Speaker 7 (39:30):
There's something I you know, the in the I haven't
experienced a lot of death firsthand in my life, but
there certainly have been a few experiences, and I came
away from it from the experience feeling like this passing
that I've just witnessed witnessed is enormously life affirming. Yeah,

(39:55):
because you see when you're watching this happen, it's when
people pass. It's not like in the movies where you
just I mean, it can be I'm sure, but people
cling to life. We do not let it go easily,
and it's very it's it's jarring, but I found it

(40:22):
to be very affirming that this life force when we
let it go or when it leaves us, it's entirely
you know, you're in a completely different space with something.
They are they are gone, but that but that force
of life, when you're witnessing it is very very powerful.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
I I just.

Speaker 7 (40:47):
I that is a very personal thing to witness that,
and it changed my whole feeling about passing. Yes, it's hard.
You don't want to see somebody go, obviously, that's that's
really hard. But life is our lives are really beautiful
and there's a force in them and that's something to

(41:07):
be celebrated. And when we when we remember somebody, we
want to remember the force of the life. We want
to remember, the intention to.

Speaker 6 (41:16):
Live, right, that's what we're Yeah, yeah, you want to remember.

Speaker 7 (41:21):
And I think this episode really was in the wonderful
dialogue and in the attitude that that Patricia Neal chose
to play this. It's all about affirming life and the
importance of life and family and connectedness, which are themes
that were just massively important to Michael Lynnon as a

(41:42):
as a creative person. And I mean, what a you know,
just it's a it's a it's a beautiful story. And
what what does deb say at the very end, loud
and clear.

Speaker 6 (41:53):
Yeah, yeah, right after he says the remember me quote, right.

Speaker 7 (41:57):
Yeah, yeah, loud and clear, and then and then and
then we're then we're immediately and I think they I
watched it on Peacock last night and they do a
cut to join the two episodes together, and I feel
like that, and having not seen it on the air,
I don't know how it actually ended, but it feels

(42:20):
like it ended with loud and clear continued next week
and it picks up right there at the funeral again
with the approach of the family. I'd like to talk
to you about the children, and now we're off and
running in the second story.

Speaker 4 (42:36):
Should we take a break and then when we get
back we'll talk about part two. Yes, okay, we're taking
a break, everybody. Let's cleanse the palettes. Let's have a
drink of water, take some deep breaths.

Speaker 6 (42:48):
We'll be right back.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
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(43:12):
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(43:35):
Little House fiftieth Anniversary podcast.

Speaker 6 (43:40):
Hi, We're back.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
Okay, So now we are in part two and this
is all centered around the children and finding them a
home to live right and not just a home to live,
but people to love them, love the care of them.

Speaker 9 (43:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (44:00):
Stuff.

Speaker 4 (44:00):
And Charles has been tasked with being responsible for to
be the one to find a home for these children,
which is cutting him up because he would like to
take the children.

Speaker 6 (44:14):
And what does he say. He says, I.

Speaker 7 (44:15):
Can't even the one time in my life. Yeah, I
can barely put shoes on my own children. It's the
one time in my life. I'm sorry, I'm not rich.

Speaker 6 (44:21):
And what when he said that? Whoa, whoa, whoa, because
we never hear him say something like.

Speaker 7 (44:27):
That, never, Yeah, yeah, and it's and then we're we
are immediately introduced, of course, to the B side of
the story with mister Edwards and his He is so
detached from it all because of the loss that he
experienced early and when he lost his wife and his child,

(44:50):
and so he's been shut down on this and yet
he's you know, he's he sees we see his sadness
in his detachment. He just does want to touch it.

Speaker 8 (45:03):
With grace.

Speaker 6 (45:04):
No.

Speaker 4 (45:06):
So, what a gift, What a gift Michael Landon gave
him as an actor, And what a gift Michael Landon
did as a writer to write such a multi faceted.

Speaker 6 (45:19):
Character, which is Isaiah Edwards.

Speaker 4 (45:23):
And that and also that they that they didn't abandon
that storyline.

Speaker 6 (45:28):
I mean, how many times on any show, let alone Little.

Speaker 4 (45:30):
Little House on the Prairie, you know, we hear something
about their backstory and then it's never talked about again,
even just the traumas that had.

Speaker 6 (45:37):
You know, Laura was kidnapped and called Mike Ellen, you.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
Know, and never didn't seem to bother her ever again,
like there's no trauma, Like everyone's fine.

Speaker 6 (45:46):
But mister Edwards is I think really the one one
of the storyline character storylines.

Speaker 4 (45:52):
That they actually followed through on in the series, right,
which is and it all and you know, it just
makes that character so rich. And and the fact that
Victor Freinchen he talked about this, right that what a
gift this part was because it.

Speaker 6 (46:10):
Gave him every color of spectrum of.

Speaker 4 (46:14):
The rainbow that he could play, from comedic to highly dramatic,
and he nails every single one of them. And you
get him, you get the psyche, you get the psychology
of it, which makes it even more painful, you.

Speaker 7 (46:27):
Know, No, it definitely does. Victor's range was well he
you know, he could he could flip on that sort
of that goofy guy that taught Laura to spit and
that you know, that was the comedic side of Victor.

(46:49):
Where he really lived. I think where Victor really lived
more realistically in his life was in that sadness Victor was.
Victor was a very sad man. You could see it
in his eyes all the time. He had this humor,
but there was great sadness about Victor.

Speaker 4 (47:08):
Well, most great comedians are very tortured souls.

Speaker 6 (47:13):
Right, plus time Eagles comedy. Yeah, sadly yeah.

Speaker 7 (47:21):
And then and then you've got then so then his
story with Grace, then you have she is optimistic, finding
a path, stepping in with the children. He's watching this
happen and being drawn into it because he cares for her,

(47:42):
and it's touching a part of him that he didn't
think he would ever really touch again, right, which is why.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
And he has a fit, but because he is in
love with her and they are absolutely having this sort
of dating thing. But he's like, no, no, no, no,
no no, this is not a real I'm not having
a serious relationship. Does not happen, It does not happening,
And we're pau saying, you know you should marry that woman.

Speaker 8 (48:05):
Yes, right, friends to start giving you advice, and he's a.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, nobody obviously that she's
trying to be shut down because he's madly in love with.

Speaker 9 (48:14):
Her but doesn't want to go there again because.

Speaker 8 (48:18):
She lost her Husbund.

Speaker 6 (48:19):
Yes, I will say the scene where.

Speaker 4 (48:22):
First of all, the puppy usage in this episode is
also I mean, what an amazing device.

Speaker 6 (48:29):
Michael Landon is a genius, just a genius.

Speaker 4 (48:32):
You see Alicia holding that little puppy and you just
want to crumble.

Speaker 6 (48:37):
It's just so sweet and so vulnerable.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
And that scene where she's in bed with the puppy
and he's like, don't you want to make a bed
for the puppy? But she needs that puppy and then
she you know, at the end and he's like, yeah,
she the puppy can sleep with you one more night.
And she's so grateful and she loves mister Edwards so
much and she reaches out and she just fiddles is

(49:03):
beard and I mean, my god, what what First of
all for Michael Landon to even know that such a
simple gesture something like that that a child would do
to a to a grown man. A child would only
do that if she felt deep love and affection.

Speaker 6 (49:25):
And safety and security around this adult.

Speaker 4 (49:30):
Now about these puppies, I sorry, did you get to
play with the buppy?

Speaker 7 (49:35):
Nelly?

Speaker 6 (49:36):
Don't give Nelly, but.

Speaker 8 (49:38):
I am, apparently, according.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
To this plot line, so utterly, utterly inhuman and devoid
a feeling that I am not considered safe to leave
a puppy.

Speaker 4 (49:49):
Well, Bunny is in season three, so it's just a precursor.

Speaker 6 (49:53):
No, no, no, don't. I would never want Nelly to have you.
They don't give me.

Speaker 8 (49:58):
What are you gonna?

Speaker 9 (49:59):
Don't tell Nelly.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Don't even tell Nelly about the well she faded, but
she wouldn't love it. I am beyond even the love
of a puppy year and that's a lot of money.

Speaker 7 (50:13):
Back then, don't take it personally, it's just.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
And then when things get really heated and pause breaking
up the children, because that's eighteen hundreds.

Speaker 8 (50:24):
Eighteen hundreds. They're lucky it wasn't all three of them
in separates. Ya did the orphans?

Speaker 1 (50:29):
Well, sorry, we need the boys on the phar they're
threatening to break up the children, and she's like, fine,
worst things she can come up. She's trying to come
up the most distressing, horrible threats, and I'm going to.

Speaker 9 (50:39):
Give the puppy to Nelly then, right.

Speaker 8 (50:42):
That's her threat, Yes.

Speaker 11 (50:44):
Death right, because if you don't that's right, Nelly, right,
because if you don't care about splitting these children up,
and then it doesn't matter if this puppy has a
home that actually is gonna be.

Speaker 6 (50:58):
Love love it. Yeah, Nelly, is the worst you think
I can say.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
At the time, I was like, seriously, I can't. I know,
I didn't get to play the puppies because apparently I'm
a monster and I'm not allowed around animals.

Speaker 7 (51:16):
It's a really it's a powerful construction.

Speaker 6 (51:19):
Well, the track record is not strong for you, Nelly Olsen.

Speaker 7 (51:22):
Yeah, no question, no question, it's all but it all works.

Speaker 8 (51:27):
Yeah, it's the worst.

Speaker 9 (51:29):
Yeah, but if you do this, give the puppy.

Speaker 6 (51:32):
But we do have Harriet Olson's cousin person, lovely person.

Speaker 4 (51:39):
She must have been on the father's side or whatever
side it is.

Speaker 6 (51:42):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (51:47):
Who. Only wants Alicia and she's loaded and she's like,
I'll give this kid everything and then when I die,
she's got it all. And then there's a farmer couple
that only wants the boys to only have them is farming.

Speaker 7 (52:00):
Well, the wife wants the Alicia too, but he's made
up his mind that he only wants the two and
he really she really that that's a very much a
moment of the time too, where he really shuts his
wife down and.

Speaker 6 (52:11):
Says, oh, yeah, and I'm sure, I'm sure.

Speaker 4 (52:14):
Also, i mean, how many I mean farmers must have
been so desperate for farming and help for boys that
I'm sure this was very actually common at the time.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Well, it's not starved to death. You've got to get
the crops. You to do it by yourself.

Speaker 9 (52:31):
And here you might have if you haven't had kids.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
And he's probably laid a big trip on his wife
about the fact that they don't have a bunch of
sons to do this.

Speaker 11 (52:39):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
So he's probably well, you failed, you failed.

Speaker 9 (52:47):
You didn't produce me any sons to go work those fields.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
So did you have two strapping young boys who really
could were and as they said, who well behaved, good
boys who would work your fields?

Speaker 9 (52:57):
Bang zoom, that's a hell of an offer.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
Yeah, so he thinks that's a pretty good deal, and
as those couples go, they're almost nice because there were
people who wanted farm hands orphans who were awful, and
just give me them orphans to be farm hands, right,
So they were probably pretty good on the scale of
terrible people.

Speaker 7 (53:17):
Adopting your children.

Speaker 8 (53:19):
Mother is sympathetic.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
She would have taken the girl, but he's not a
nice persons.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
So here's my question, though, is missus Farnsworth is Minerva.

Speaker 6 (53:32):
I call her Minerva. We're on a first name basis.
She and I. Minerva is loaded. Why can't she take
all three children? Why? Why she has the means?

Speaker 7 (53:43):
Because school?

Speaker 6 (53:46):
Because that's the answer. Because Michael Landon didn't write it
that way.

Speaker 7 (53:53):
Didn't write that way.

Speaker 9 (53:55):
She's an elderly, foofy, witty widow lady.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
And they would be like, well, I have a pretty
little girl and dress her like a doll a movie.

Speaker 8 (54:02):
Whatever will I do with it? She doesn't have right
to bring in.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
She would have these two teenage boys knocking things over
and breaking stuff.

Speaker 7 (54:10):
But you can just tell from her the way that
actress and I don't, I mean, we know her.

Speaker 6 (54:14):
She was lovely.

Speaker 7 (54:16):
She was lovely. She would have been great given the
way she played this person. The energy that she was presenting.
She would have been a wonderful mother to all three totally,
there's no no question that she would have. That was
not the story. But it's sort of also, uh, in
some ways it sort of helps missus Olsen too that

(54:38):
she could have such a lovely relative. That was you know,
that was really a nice thing. I thought. She Yeah,
I thought this woman was just spectacular and with all
with all the right intention everywhere.

Speaker 6 (54:55):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 7 (54:57):
There was no fail on her part. Her heart was
totally in.

Speaker 9 (55:00):
The right place.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
And a woman got strata in that time period, like,
oh I did two teenage boys and that what am
I going to say to them? What am we do?

Speaker 8 (55:07):
I can handle a bit, but she would have handled it.

Speaker 12 (55:09):
Maybe it was also I might want to get the
boys because if I'm getting older and I need stuff
done around the house and heavy things moved and someone
to protect me, I'd say, bring the boys.

Speaker 7 (55:19):
We'll need I had a great aunt who had no
use for girls at all. It was all about what young,
strapping boys could do to help her get done what
she needed to get done. I mean, this was you know,
I'm here, I'm talking about when I am you know,

(55:40):
a young boy into my early teens. This was what
I saw from my great aunt, who was struggled with
so many different things. But she really, she really, you know,
she got a twinkle in her eye with a young
boy around who could pick something up and carry it
for her. I mean, that was the world now that

(56:00):
she lived in, and that's the world that a lot
of people lived in.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
I also wasn't in the orphanage. He was put up
for adoption as a baby, and he was in the
orphanage for unfortunately a couple of years. It was your dad, yeah,
and he said, height to the depression. We're talking malnutrition.
He had read wickets and malnutrition to the point vit
D deficiency, rickets.

Speaker 8 (56:19):
He was that sick by the time.

Speaker 9 (56:21):
And he said, it wasn't pretty.

Speaker 8 (56:24):
You needed to get adopted.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
You knew things were going badly, so when you were
presented to a family or people were checking kids, you
were like la.

Speaker 8 (56:31):
La la la la la.

Speaker 7 (56:32):
Platy right, you are tap dancing as fast as you got.

Speaker 6 (56:35):
Yeah to kick me.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
And he said, some people clearly wanted boys, clearly want
a girl. Some people clearly were not taken again, and
when he saw this farm family, the Arnghamson's with a
bunch of kids.

Speaker 9 (56:44):
He like went, He's like, I need to make these
people adopt me now, because he.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
Knew that this would be a good household. And so
my father was not overly fond of the episodes involving
orphans on the show.

Speaker 6 (56:57):
And there are a lot of orphans.

Speaker 8 (56:58):
Oh yeah, lots of this one.

Speaker 6 (57:01):
It's a orphans and adoption.

Speaker 7 (57:03):
Is a huge, huge, ongoinglis And I didn't.

Speaker 6 (57:08):
Know that about your dad. That's so interesting.

Speaker 8 (57:10):
His real name is Wilfred Wilfrid James Bannon.

Speaker 6 (57:17):
And you met them in Ireland.

Speaker 8 (57:18):
I met in Ireland. But he got adopted and got
named tor Huddler.

Speaker 9 (57:23):
Marvin Ingrahamson went from Wilford.

Speaker 8 (57:25):
To tor Huddler.

Speaker 9 (57:26):
He could not catch a break, that's yes. Then he
was a two dime loser on the name front.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
But he got adopted by and it was a farm
family and a lot of the I gave out in
the fields.

Speaker 8 (57:36):
Get out there now.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
The props that happened, But they he got like scored
because they didn't just want a farm hand.

Speaker 9 (57:44):
They were good people.

Speaker 8 (57:45):
They were like the Ingles.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
They were basically got adopted by the Ingles. They were
like fabulous, so but it was close. It was the
clothes and children were separated from their brothers and sisters
and people got sent.

Speaker 4 (57:57):
To horrible I mean that still happens, does it, not
with adoption or foster care that I.

Speaker 7 (58:02):
Mean split up. Yeah, I'm sure. I think we need
to race to the finish here and you know, and
get to that sort of that critical moment.

Speaker 6 (58:13):
When critical moment.

Speaker 7 (58:15):
When Minerva, you know, when Minerva says I will take her.
I want when when it's very clear to Charles that
this is not going to work out and he's heartbroken
about it, and he recognizes that he's going to have
to allow this to happen, and Laura is devastated by it,
and Ma tries to Ma tries to make clear that

(58:36):
these are very difficult decisions. It's not what anyone would
want to do, but it has to happen. Yeah, and
survival and in the end, mister Edwards isn't having it,
and that's that moment it's time to go. And she turns,
you know, Alicia, who's just adorable, turns into her brother

(59:00):
hip and hugs him and doesn't want to let go.

Speaker 4 (59:03):
I mean, I can't even when the brothers are saying
goodbye to Alicia. I cannot even It is so devastating
to see that, and all of them standing around watching this,
witnessing this, and no one can do a thing about
it until mister Edwards does.

Speaker 7 (59:17):
Until mister Edwards stand up, I think, yeah, it's not right,
and I'm going to do And then everything this is
like that. These are those little house moments that people
love where I mean, would this really happen? Obviously it
could happen, but this was Michael's storytelling, and he could
wrap this up in a neat little bow at the

(59:39):
end and have everyone feel wonderful at at the end
of it.

Speaker 8 (59:44):
And there's true love romance.

Speaker 9 (59:47):
I mean, she used till Charles it's right, it's not right.

Speaker 8 (59:50):
You know it's not right, and get it. But then
it's like, will you marry me? And he does.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
He has He not only admits he's shaving the children,
and he admits that he's in love with his girlfriend.

Speaker 7 (59:59):
Finally, yeah, yeah, I can say it now, I.

Speaker 4 (01:00:02):
Can admit it, right, And and Pau called him on it, saying,
you know, because you told him is zob story that
it's you know, it's hard being alone and I'll never
be saying for my loss and pause, it's your choice
to be alone. And so that that coming around at
the end two is so satisfying and again done in
a way that we believe it, that we that it

(01:00:25):
that it is, doesn't seem just like a ploy to
have a happy ending.

Speaker 7 (01:00:30):
A feature of Michael's writing is that everything is open.
You know, the audience has all in Michael's stories. I'm
sure there are I'm sure that there are there have
to be some anomalies with this, but as I watched
more and more of Michael's storytelling, the audience knows everything, yes, always,

(01:00:51):
and it's what the character's journeys are. But there's no secrets,
there's no The audience is not going to be shocked
by They may be thrilled by something that happens, but
they knew all the circumstances. And this is where the
instructive part of the Little House comes from, because you
get to see all the pieces in motion all the time.

Speaker 8 (01:01:16):
Sometimes the characters are surprised.

Speaker 7 (01:01:17):
You're going, sure, characters don't.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Always know Alfred Hitchcock time, but the old bit about
put the bomb under the table, the audience sees the bomb.

Speaker 8 (01:01:26):
The two people at the table.

Speaker 9 (01:01:27):
Do not see that have no idea. That is the
Hitchcock principle. And literally that's where we're doing a little house.

Speaker 7 (01:01:34):
Yeah, the audience always knows everything, and and so we
are feeling for the audience. As an audience member, you
are feeling for everybody, and there are you're hoping and
wanting and yeah, it's it's it's a it's a lovely
way to finish. And then of course you finish with
Patricia Neil's narration of the remember me line again and

(01:01:57):
and we have a happy every One's going to be good,
and it's a it's a lovely way to end. It is.

Speaker 6 (01:02:08):
I know, it's like eight times. I know it's a
to it's to it is. It's hard. It's again the
experience of being a kid watching this episode.

Speaker 4 (01:02:19):
It's still hard as a kid, it's but it's a
totally different experience than watching it as an adult, and
certainly as a parent. It's just like a different You
just see so many different things and both are valid
and both are vital, which is why it's so cool.

Speaker 6 (01:02:38):
It really struck me how cool.

Speaker 4 (01:02:39):
It was that Michael Lindon made sure that he included
some of the children's narrative in this too, and and
their perspective and not this just from the adults.

Speaker 7 (01:02:49):
We've talked about this so many times. One of Michael's
deepest felt beliefs on this is that families should watch
this together, young people, older people, because in an episode
like this, there is something for everybody.

Speaker 4 (01:03:03):
And to talk about the conversation that you would have
after this episode is over with your children. I mean,
holy moly, yeah, And how wonderful that that conversation would
be happening and how how you know how many I
remember on Sesame Street when mister Hooper died, they did

(01:03:24):
the episode of of how do we we have to
address it?

Speaker 6 (01:03:28):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
When to make The writers and the creators of Sesame
Street were like, we have to address this. He's dead
in real life, like mister Hooper is no longer going
to be on this show. And so they carefully crafted
this touching, honest episode of explaining that he's not coming
back and sort of and and and that was like

(01:03:53):
breakout TV that was like considered really thelatory television and
it had never been done before. And I think this
episode is maybe the only other television I've seen involving
children that children would watch where the topic is so

(01:04:14):
carefully and thoughtfully approached in a way that would create discussion,
healthy discussion afterwards.

Speaker 8 (01:04:23):
And and show.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
I remember they used big Bird. They centered it around
everyone having to explain it to big Bird.

Speaker 4 (01:04:28):
Because google YouTube it it's it's big Bird.

Speaker 9 (01:04:32):
Is the baby big birds like three or four? Really right?

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
The way he touched big birds like a forum, and
they didn't like spend time explaining it to Oscar the older.
Everyone had to sit big Bird down and big Bird
was like, do you mean he's not coming back?

Speaker 8 (01:04:46):
What do you? Where did he go? And explaining it
to the youngest, youngest.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Muppett And it's just that's why it worked because they
used the children's perspective.

Speaker 8 (01:04:55):
It was that's right killing me.

Speaker 4 (01:04:57):
Yes, it's yeah, well great, I'm a f depressed and.

Speaker 7 (01:05:03):
You should feel you should feel hopeful at the end.

Speaker 6 (01:05:07):
It is. It's a great ending.

Speaker 4 (01:05:09):
It's a very satisfying ending without it again being that
cloying preciousness. Yes, it's very grounded. You you believe it.
It's believable and it's not in your face, sweetness. It
just is what it is, right and yeah, and then
next we get to see John not killing a deer

(01:05:31):
or something like that whatever with Edwards like being disappointed.
But that's, you know, their journey as father and son
that comes after this, which I'm sure we will be
recapping some of those episodes.

Speaker 7 (01:05:42):
Yeah, oh sure, listen, I think we need to be
racing for the exit.

Speaker 6 (01:05:46):
We do, we do? Uh you guys, this was lovely.
This was lovely.

Speaker 4 (01:05:51):
Please join us, join us again. We hope you enjoyed
this one. You can follow us on Little House fifty
podcast dot com, Little House fifty podcasts and are so shoals.

Speaker 6 (01:06:00):
All of our going to be in our show notes.
If you need to know the.

Speaker 4 (01:06:03):
Upcoming Little House events, that's all in our show notes.
Join us on Patreon. Allison's going to talk to us
a bit more about Patricia Meal and so yes, okay, anyway,
I think it's that time Bob get the wig.

Speaker 6 (01:06:18):
Let's fly Fly puppies. Just think of the puppies.