June 24, 2025 • 68 mins
In this episode Sexologist, Dr. Tangie Cuadcud and I challenge the glamorized narratives of wild celebrity sex parties and spotlight the voices that reveal what really goes on behind closed doors.
Going beyond the headlines, we examine the deep psychological implications of long-term abuse—especially when it occurs within a relationship shaped by power imbalances, fame, and control.
Mental Health is a Lifestyle Podcast with Andrea Wise-Brown, is where we discuss practical strategies for managing mental health and wellbeing.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Mental Health is a Lifestyle Podcast. We hope you found these practical tips helpful and encourage you to continue prioritizing your mental health and wellness.
If you have any questions or suggestions for future episodes, please email us at mhialpodcast@gmail.com.
See you next time!
Find Andrea: awisebrown.com
Follow The Podcast At @mentalhealthisalifestylepod Mhialpodcast@gmail.com I want to know your opinions…….
In addition; if you have any questions that you want answered on the podcast send your request to mhialpodcast@gmail.com or inbox me @mentalhealthisalifestylepod
Remember, Mental health is a Lifestyle!®️😘
Going beyond the headlines, we examine the deep psychological implications of long-term abuse—especially when it occurs within a relationship shaped by power imbalances, fame, and control.
Mental Health is a Lifestyle Podcast with Andrea Wise-Brown, is where we discuss practical strategies for managing mental health and wellbeing.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Mental Health is a Lifestyle Podcast. We hope you found these practical tips helpful and encourage you to continue prioritizing your mental health and wellness.
If you have any questions or suggestions for future episodes, please email us at mhialpodcast@gmail.com.
See you next time!
Find Andrea: awisebrown.com
Follow The Podcast At @mentalhealthisalifestylepod Mhialpodcast@gmail.com I want to know your opinions…….
In addition; if you have any questions that you want answered on the podcast send your request to mhialpodcast@gmail.com or inbox me @mentalhealthisalifestylepod
Remember, Mental health is a Lifestyle!®️😘
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is not a substitute for our relationship with
your mental health professional. Hey hey, hey, family, welcome back
to another episode of The Mental Health Is a lifestyle
podcast with your girl, Andrea wise Brown. And if you
(00:25):
happen to be scrolling by and you haven't done so already.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Please join the family.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
All you have to do is click that little button
and subscribe to the podcast, like the podcast, and then
share this podcast episode because like all others, it's going
to be good, but this one here is gonna be
It's gonna be juicy and good, family, because we have
(00:53):
that expert that y'all love back with us. We have
doctor Tanji the sex biologists.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
In the house.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
So come on, family, Yeah, let's give her some praise. Hello,
doctor Tangi.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Hello, good morning. I'm so excited to be joining you again.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Absolutely well, okay, so before I get into a we
get into conversation, I just want to give our viewers
for the new family members who haven't been introduced to you.
I just wanted to give them a little, you know,
snippet of who you are. You are a very accomplished woman.
(01:40):
You're an expert in your field. That's what I know
for sure. That's why I have you back again. You're
freaking brilliant. But I'm just gonna throw this out there.
So doctor Tangi h works with and she, as I said,
she's a sexologist, and she works with individuals and couple
of any sex orientation or identity and uses a multidisciplinary
(02:07):
and sex positive approach to find solutions for sexual dysfunctions
and intimacy concerns so people can live the sex life
they envision and deserve.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Love that.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
I love that for your clients.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yes, yes, yes, I love it.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Okay, So doctor Tangi, what's been over the news now?
And I have been following this case so closely. I'm
sure not everyone else has been, but I have been.
It's the Diddy case, the Diddy versus the United States
case that's going on now, and I think it's probably
(02:54):
going to wrap up pretty soon. So the reason why
I wanted to come on and have a real conversation
with a sexologist, you an expert, is because the Internet has.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Been buzzing with all of these.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Opinions of of the sex you know, escapades that they
have been allegedly having. They've been it's been buzzing about
sexuality sexual orientation, Diddy sexual orientation, and you know, always
I'm gonna give you the space to correct me if
(03:31):
I'm wrong. But his orientation and then this, this has
been a big one. It's victim shaming. So I keep
hearing that that what he's alleged to have been cohersing
these women to have these performed these sexual acts in
front of him and with him, and so everybody, you know,
(03:52):
people are buzzing.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I don't want to say everybody. It's a generalization.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
However, the most popular opinion that I've been seeing is
is she wanted it.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
She wanted it, she wasn't cohersed. She and then Jane Doe.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So I'm just gonna talk, Uh, I'm just gonna really
point out these allegations.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Before we move forward.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
He was alleged to do many things, but we're just
talking about the sex part and the cohersion today because
I want people to understand that there is a psychological
component to this. And just because you see one thing,
you know, you can't you just can't judge a book
by its cover. The key allegations that we are going
to talk about today, and these are allegations, okay, is
(04:37):
that they would have these freak offs, and the freakofs
are described as elaborate multi day sex parties featuring drug
used ketamine, ecstasy GHB, where victims were allegedly recorded assaults
(05:00):
and blackmailed with tapes as threats. Then the next one
we want to talk about, because they all kind of
roll up in here together, is cohersion and abuse. So
some testimonies from exes, including Cassie Ventra and Jane Doe
describe physical assault, punching, dragging, kicking, accompanied by emotional manipulation
(05:30):
and threats to withhold money, end careers or expose private recordings. Okay,
and we know that a part of the evidence was
the tape that I believe. I know I saw it
and I'm ask you in a minute if you saw it.
(05:51):
But there was a tape where allegedly Cassie said she
was trying to escape a freak off because she said
she did not want to do it, and he beat
her brutally and dragged her down the hallway. So I
believe that all of y'all saw the tape. I kind
of talked about the tape in the early episodes. So
(06:12):
here we go. So doctor TANGI are you familiar with
the case.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I am familiar with the case, and I saw the tape.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yes, okay, okay, good, good, good, good good.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So my first question to you.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Well, I just wanted to start by saying that, obviously
there are some allegations, but the violence that we saw
on the tape are not allegations that happened. I think
what's behind the defense on what happened on the tape
as a motive, and so the tapes are not allegations
that actually happened. And when we say the word allegations,
(06:51):
I just want people to understand that because this is
in a criminal trial court and I'm not a lawyer,
but what means that it's an allegation doesn't mean that
it's true or untrue. It means that it's being examined
and it's going to be judged according to the law
and light of the evidence that has been presented. And
(07:13):
so I don't want people to necessarily take the word
allegation as either a denial or a factual thing. It's
just that we are meaning to say that it hasn't
been judged in the courts as something that actually happened.
(07:34):
So just wanted to put that out there for those
people who don't understand the meaning of the word allegation.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Okay, thank you very much for that clarity. Yes I
concur and yes we are not lawyers.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So, from a sex therapy therapist perspective, how do you
define the difference between consensual kinks and cohersion or abuse?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
And do abuse?
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Because this is a case with a sexual a strong
sexual component. I want to remind people that abuses abuse
regardless of if it's financial abuse, psychological abuse, physical abuse,
sexual abuse, and so people understand better the oh when
somebody beats you up with a stick, or somebody slaps you,
(08:32):
or somebody kicks you or punches you, people can understand
abuse better from that perspective. Psychological abuse is so much
harder for people to understand because it almost looks like
the victims are participating in the abuse willingly, and which
obviously wouldn't constitute it as abuse. So what is abuse?
(08:55):
Abuse is when it's against your will, when it dehumanizes you,
when it really attempts against your integrity, your autonomy as
a person, and it strives you of your identity, of
your autonomy, of your ability to intelligently clearly without influence,
(09:18):
make your own determinations and decisions.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
So that's the difference.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Well, a kink is consensual and both parties go to
the situation knowingly and with an enthusiastic agreement and consent
of what's about to happen. So let's say that somebody
has to slap me on the face kink which actually exists,
and that's how they receive some sort of gratification. The
(09:47):
dominant person and the submissive person would come together and
talk about it and say, okay, well this is my
kink and I like to be slapped on the face.
I like to be slapped on the face gently, slightly, hardly, whatever.
So the parameters are, they are in ample discussion, and
(10:12):
the dominant would agree to the terms and conditions that
the submissive.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Person actually gives them.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
So in a kink situation a BDSM situation, we say
that the submissive person is the one who has the
power and the control because it's the one that agrees
to be in that role and is the one that
can stop it at any time. So that's another very
tailing sign of a BDS and a healthy DSM relationship
(10:43):
and abuse. The person who has the kink and who
is also the submissive party, can stop what's happening at
any time, and when they say the code word, the
safe word, the dominant person stops, retreats and checks in
(11:04):
with a person are you okay? How are you feeling?
And provides also aftercare. So in the aftercare is kind
of a nurturing part after the DSM activity has ended,
and so it is a more systematic and methodological process
than people may think. It's not just you getting spanked
during sex. That's not BDSM. That may make you a
(11:27):
little kinky, but that's not really what DSM is.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
What VIDSM is is an.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Agreement to freely participate in the activity, and the submissive person,
who is the subject of the humiliation or the intake
of the dominance of the other person, is always in
control and always able to stop, slow down, change the
(11:57):
course of the situation at will, and the dominant person
follows whatever the ob missive person can stand and what
this ob missive person is giving them as far as
cues or verbal communication at all times so that respect
is clearly established and followed to a t. So, for instance,
(12:20):
let's say that I have a spanking kink.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
If I am the.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Submissive then I would say my safe word. And let's
say I always say that the same word is banana.
I just it sounds funny. So I say banana, and
this dominant person knows that banana means I've reached my limit,
maybe of pain of stimulation.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
I'm overwhelmed.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I don't want to continue with this, and the dominant
person stops right away, doesn't ask me, oh my god.
Well I don't want to stop. I just want to
keep going. Well, you take this, I don't care. We
agree to this. There's none of that happening. It stopped
as soon as the submissive says banana, and the dominant
(13:07):
person is supposed to take care emotionally and physically of
the submissive person in that moment and after the activity
has ended successfully.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
So that is the difference. Abuse.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
In the other hand, the abuser has the control. The
abuser calls all the shots. The abuser dictates what's happening,
how with what frequency, with what force, And if I
say stop, and I'm in an abusive situation, it doesn't
really matter.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
It doesn't matter if I say banana, it doesn't matter
if I say to the fruity.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
The abuse is going to continue because the abuser is
taking that power to exert their dominance over me relentlessly.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
That's the difference. And it's not consensual.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Got it good? And let me ask this that was
so good?
Speaker 1 (13:58):
So because now I'm just thinking right that when you
said it's at the the whatever party, the person says, Okay,
I'm with this, now, I want to do this. We
have a safe word. But then if they decide at
any point during that sexual session and I'm thinking session
(14:18):
because I'm thinking freak off. But at any point if
they decide I don't want to do this anymore, you know,
I don't want it or I don't like it. If
it continues by one of the people within this sexual relationship,
then that can turn into abuse.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Is that what you said?
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Absolutely, hold on suck Yes, absolutely. So what happens is that,
again the control is not in the hands of the
submissive that gave their consent. Now, people also have to
understand one of the problems is that we do not
teach or understand consent. Consent is or means that I
(15:05):
gave it, but I can take it away at any
time with no negative consequences.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
That's what consent means.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
It means that okay, Andrea, you and I let's go
to the mall together, let's walk them all.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
And midpoint I say.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
You know, when Andrea, I changed to my mind, I
don't want to walk them all. You say, okay, that's fine,
let's get back to our cars instead of well, now
you're walking them all because you said you wanted to
walk them all. I don't care if you don't want
to walk them all. We are walking them all because
you said that you wanted this. That's when it turns abusive,
(15:46):
even if you said before that.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
You wanted it.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
When you can stop it and it's respected, that's consent.
Consent doesn't need an explanation. We always say that no
is a is a complete sentence. The minute we say no,
everything should stop and we shouldn't be facing negative consequences
or being made to continue with whatever it is that
(16:14):
I consented to against my will because supposedly I said
yes before. So that's the line of consent that when
it's crossed, it becomes abused.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I love that analogy.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
That was excellent, especially because I really don't like walking
the mall with friends.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
So you know, I'm just literally thinking like no.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
At any time I need to go and if I
feel like I, oh, you know, they try to guilt me.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
What I'm literally almost having a panic attack.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
So I get that that can turn to that was
that was excellent, excellent, And then I want to add
in So.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
So doctor TANGI what if we.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
How is it a What does it look like when
you add drugs to the equation. So when one of
the people in this sexual I don't know agreement, we
could say I don't even know if it's an agreement,
but okay, they're having sex.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Let's just say it a freak off.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
And before we start, I'm always popping, putting a pill
in your mouth. I'm putting all Allegedly, this is what
Cassie said. What happen is, you know, when he was
ready to do a freak off, she would say to him, well,
I really just want to spend time with you and me.
Can can you and I just spend time together? And
(17:41):
he was like, girl, like, let's come on hand, do
this freak off first, and then we'll see what happens.
And he would always say, open your mouth and put
a pill in. So that was something that she alleged
that happened over and over again. And even in times
when she said she did not want to do it,
he would tell her, after maybe being physically abusive, to
(18:04):
shut up, put on her heels, get dressed, and he
would pop a pill in a mouth. And not only
Cassie that was a part of her testimony allegedly, but
also the Jane Doe. So Jane Doe and I know
people see both of them differently. I get that some
people will judge and say that they feel like Jane
(18:25):
Doe was really in it for the money, and we
can talk about that, and so she wasn't being cohersed. However,
they both testified that he would put.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Pills in their mouths, you know, have them.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
To take drugs, because they neither one of them took
drugs before they hung out with him or interacted with him.
So when you bring drugs into the equation, doctor TANGI
is that abuse cohersion? What does that look like?
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Well? Definitely.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
So abuse can take many forms, and coercion is just
one form of abuse. Coercion what coercion means is I
am going to exert my dominance by manipulation, by just
kind of leading you, not gently, but leading you to
(19:21):
the situation in a way in which it seems like
you are agreeing to it, but your instinct and maybe
your initial response was no or even i'm not sure,
which again consent. The definition of consent when I say
I'm not sure, maybe not now let me think about it.
(19:41):
All of those things mean no. All of those things
mean at least not at this moment. So again, consent
very important. Coercion when it's happening, it's actually leading the
person and most times it's not a gently or a
gentle leading to it into agreeing to things that they would.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Normally not agree with.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
I think in Europe it's accepted the term chemical manipulation,
and chemical manipulation is when the person is given drugs
or some mind altering substance to.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Ensure their compliance.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
There is a very famous case in Europe, and I
don't know if people who are following this case know
about it. Is this French lady who for about maybe
twenty years, her husband was drugging her. The husband, father
of her children, was drugging her, bringing men into their
(20:47):
home and recording his wife passed out having sex with
these men, and apparently he probably did it with the
daughter as well, and so he's in jail.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
She has been outspoken about it.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
The daughter has written a book and she was on
tour here in the United States recently. And so this
is called chemical manipulation. Chemical manipulation, it's just that is
when I want you to do something that requires a
lot of energy from your body, probably I'm going to
give you a stimulant. And when I want to subdue you,
(21:24):
I am going to give you something that will strip
you of the feistiness or the ability for you to
think clearly and not comply with what's happening around you.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
So it's a way of control. And so but this
wouldn't mean coercion.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Coercion is the mind the psychological manipulation that leads to
the person to again quote unquote participate, or people would
see it as an agreement versus a chemical manipulation, which
is me now making sure.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
That you are in an altered state.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
So you comply completely and so basically stripping you of
your ability even to fight. And this is a very
important piece of evidence. Now, in order for there to
be chemical manipulation, there has to be two elements. There
has to be either one element of it being incomespeak heous.
(22:27):
So for instance, in the French lady's case, he was
putting these substances in her meals, her drinks, so she
didn't know that she was ingesting this, and she would say, like,
I feel weird, I feel off. She actually apparently went
to a lot of doctors, so she would feel like dizzy, sleepy, tired,
and she didn't know why, and she didn't know that
these substances were being given to her in her drinks
(22:50):
and in her food. Now with the other side of
the chemical manipulation, there has to be coercion.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
So I have to be coerced.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Enough to be able to open my mouth and take
the pill, or I can be tricked into it.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Well, this is going to make you feel better.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
This is going and I don't know obviously what the
how these pills were delivered under what messaging, but it
could be well, just you know, just open your mouth.
That's going to make you feel better, that's going to
take the pain away. This is just to make you relax,
you know whatever else. But if there's coercion and the
manipulation is really being done successfully, when the person says
(23:33):
open your mouth, take this, basically the victim would just
comply open their mouth and take that, and in their
minds again people attribute maybe a different meaning because this
has such a strong sexual component, and when you add
sex to anything, people just the emotions and the opinions
(23:56):
just boil and it becomes like lava in a.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Volcan, you know.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
But this is no different than a husband that beats
of a wife, and we tend to have more sympathy
for that, even though many times we also victim shame
and we also say like, well, what didn't she leave?
But we tend to have more sympathy for somebody who
has bruises, et cetera. Maybe seeing that tape probably made
some people kind of change their minds and set and say, well, wow,
(24:25):
that was a brutal attack. I mean, he's a tall guy,
he's strong, he's fit, and she has no chance really
of defending herself against them. So people can understand the
dynamic better of the physical abuse part of things, but
not necessarily of the psychological and that's when the manipulative
coercion comes in.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I love that. That's so good.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
That's so good, And no, I had no idea about
that case, nothing about that case.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
That is horrible, horrific.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
I'm so glad that they speaking out using it voices,
writing book like that is a freak amazing. So I
am going to look that up. That's so good. That's
so good. And I love the way you point out
the difference between pretty much back in the day we
would say slipped slipping a mickey like giving someone putting
(25:19):
a drug in someone's drink, you know, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I believe that's what Bill kys.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Yeah, that's like.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
And so that's a kind of the leader that has
been accepted by it. The date rape is when somebody
slipped something in a drink, for instance, and you don't
know that this is happening, and so you're just you're
just minding your own business talking to that person drinking something,
or the person says, hey, take this, and it's just
a drink. It seems like a cup of a glass
of wine or a cup of water or whatever it
(25:52):
is that you're drinking, and in fact that person just
slipped something without your knowledge, and then you are rendered
unconscious or enable or unable to act in ranch case, obviously,
again it's abuse.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Right, absolutely absolutely, But and I just want to clarify
you was saying so even him saying to her you know,
will take this. You know, even if she said she
didn't want to do whatever the thing was, well just
put this in your mouth and take this. That that
could also be abuse, abusive.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Well, it's a chemical it's chemical manipulation for sure. But
it happened because he is he used enough coercion to
be able to influence her decision even at that moment.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
And I want to I want to piggyback on that
by just saying this, ask you this, Okay, when someone
has significantly more power, like celebrity over you know, a
younger or less.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Powerful partner, how does that affect sexual consent?
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Well, power dynamics are very very important, and that's why
you know that in companies they have these policies like
supervisor cannot date, you know, a subordinate or you know,
the the higher ranking officials cannot be with lower ranking
people in companies. It's because a power differential puts, especially
(27:33):
the lower ranking.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
People in a disadvantage.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Because when you have somebody like a president that is
calling a junior or an intern, which you know, this
has happened, and it's happened so many times in corporate America,
in politics and universities, et cetera. And I've known of
many many cases when somebody calls you a director, vice president,
(27:58):
of president, or CEO, your supervisor, and you are trying
to just do your best, go there, make it, and
all of a sudden, they breach that relationship and they
start going into either in a propriety or even if
it looks again.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Quote unquote as consensual, that.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Power differential really puts the lower ranking person at a disadvantage.
So again that's why this has been studied and agreed
upon and companies, corporations, entities, they have these policies in
place because you can use this as a mechanism for
(28:40):
coercial abuse and things can get out of control. Also,
you know, obviously in the in companies, there could be
an unfair advantage as far as benefits, et cetera for
the person who is on a low lower ranking mode,
which can then flip very very quickly when the higher
ranking person changes their mind or you change the terms
(29:05):
of that agreement. And so it can be very very tricky.
So let's say in the case of a celebrity that
you are an aspiring celebrity, and this is so complex
and probably why people can't wrap their hands around. It
is because when you have somebody who says young, inexperienced,
(29:28):
aspiring to be something. And let's take this out of
this case, which seems to have very strong opinions and elicit.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
A lot of emotion. Let's say that it's just you
trying to make.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
It in corporate America, and all of a sudden you
have the CEO taken notice. And you are a young
twenty two year old right fresh out of college, and
the CEO notices you. You're cute, you're young, and you're thinking, wow,
I mean I want to make it. But this person
(30:01):
who is held in such a high regard, who has
so much power, who is in control of everything, who
is can't dictate your destiny, and who's also charming because
these people don't understand they're also charismatic.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
They're attractive.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
They're not only powerful because of the position, they actually
got to their position because of their talent, skill, because
of their people's skills, because of their swag, because of
how they conduct themselves in the world. And so there
it is a twenty two year old right fresh out of.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
College, and they are.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Like, oh, wow, well the CEO is noticing me, I
must you know, be something special. I must have something special,
and they start grooming, so I know that you have
that in your notes, the grooming. So what is the grooming, Well,
the grooming is that preparation. The grooming is the little
step that these predators use to take that autonomy away
(31:07):
from you, slowly but surely. Is the compliments is the
preferential treatment?
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Is a law bombing.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
It is the you know, in case, let's say, twenty
two year old with a CEO, let's meet and I'll
fly you on.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
My private jet.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Oh my god, you'll fly me on your private jet.
I must be something so special. I have something to offer.
This is going to skyrocket my career. And so the
CEO is after obviously something else.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
But as a twenty two year old who doesn't.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Know the world, you're like, oh my god, I have
something special to offer. And attraction always feels good for
the most part, so especially when it's coming from somebody
who is way, way way high up from where you are,
and so you're taking notice.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
No, doctor TANGI please, no, I'm loving that. I don't
I don't want to stop you. I just want you
to go right there. I was gonna ask you another question,
But you said something about attraction. What what what is
What did you say about attraction?
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Well, attraction, Uh, there's a there's a lot of things
that we're attracted to. And and also I want to
throw in another word that wasn't in our initial conversation backstage. Uh,
And it is narcissistic behavior. And somebody who's a narcissist.
And there are different types of narcissists. The maligna narcissists,
(32:36):
it is the one that is very unaware and unconcerned
about the well being of others. And they're not They
don't care what's happening to the other person. They're self serving.
They're there only for themselves, what serves them, what helps
them get ahead, what helps them get whatever they want,
(32:56):
And they will see everybody around them as so and
supply means whatever it is that I want to get
from you.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
So if I want to get sexual gratification from you, I.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Will recur to any means necessary to ensure that you
give that to me.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Coercion is one of them.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Whatever kind of manipulation it takes, chemical manipulation. So whatever
kind of submission control I can exert over the victim,
I will do because I just want to get what
I want. People have asked me many times, and I
have done some videos on what are.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Narcissists so sexually attractive? And they are.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
They are usually charming. They come in and fill the room.
They usually have lots of conversation. They have a lot
of bravado. They're very bargadocious, right. They don't mind talking
about themselves and their success and how they got to
where they are, and people who are in a different
(34:08):
stage or a different state in their lives they look
up to them like, Wow, they're so talented. Oh my god,
they're so wonderful, such wonderful people. And so people who
are lacking or look at those traits as aspirational whatever
it is that this narcissistic person was able to accomplish,
(34:28):
then they will identify with them and they will get
sucked into that vortex. And once you get sucked into
the vortex of a narcissist, they will take hold and
they will do everything possible.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
To not let go of that hold.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
It's almost like when an octopus kind of puts their
tentacles around you. They have those little sumption cups everywhere,
and to get them off, it's.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Really really hard. They want to hold on.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
To you because you're providing them with what they want
and what they need, and if you don't, the consequences
can be dire.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Absolutely absolutely, and you made me think of I was
just thinking of some other things that depending on where
a person, whether it's a woman or a man, but
where they are in their life and dependent on their
psychological state at the time that they meet a narcissis,
(35:24):
dependent on the trauma that they may have experienced during childhood.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Trauma bond can be formed.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
And just like the narcissis has this you know, a
difficult time of letting go of his supply i e.
That the person the victim that they've been taken advantage of.
Then the victim also although they may be in this
situation and they may not like it, they may not
want to be there, they could have even expressed it sometimes,
(35:55):
but it's really difficult for them to also leave and
break that trauma bond. But it's all because of their
psychological state when they met the said narcissist and their
family of origin, you know, trauma that they may have experienced.
So because some people can encounter narcissist and be like
(36:19):
oh my god, never, I'm not stay away from me.
But then there's some people who are, as you point out,
attracted to narcissists, and it has to do with their
psychological state at the time. I wanted to also say
when you mentioned attraction, so that this is pretty much
what I was really trying to talk about.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
So I'm glad you went here. But the whole thing
about the private jets.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
And you know, both of these women in the Diddy trial,
and this is the Jane Doe and the Cassie, they
all they both pointed out that when he first met them, right,
there was something that they saw was to gain, especially
Jane Doe. You know, he took her out on a
yacht for some days, like he took her on a
five day date. And on this five day date, you know,
(37:08):
she was on private jet. I do believe she was
on a boat, you know, on an island, you know,
just spending all of this time with him, when it
seemed as if, or it appears as if this was all,
you know, a part of his ploy to groom, the grooming.
So this is what you were talking about with the grooming,
(37:28):
and we're saying allegedly, right, allegedly, but this was I.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Mean, we are talking facts, but when I'm talking.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
About you know, Puffy and them, right, if the story
that they're saying is true found to be true, that
was a lot of the grooming, right is that, you know,
taking him out and doing all the things. And then
for Cassie, you know, he was promising her that he
was gonna put this album out.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
You know, you're gonna put I'm gonna put your album.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
Out, you know.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
So I love that you pointed out, you know, a
younger person, you know, or a person who has less power,
can be sucked in by by some grooming.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
And have to help people understand that what you're saying
is correct the psychological state of the person in that moment,
because even people who are very very strong, who have
strong personalities, who have maybe more perfect if you will
quote unquote childhoods, if you are grieving, for instance, that
(38:30):
will put you in a disadvantage and make you vulnerable
to a narcissist. And so anybody can actually be subjected
to a narcissistic behavior in the other side of it.
And people have to also understand that narcissists are very skilled.
(38:51):
They're very skilled at not only choosing their victims but
also keeping them. And so, I don't know if you
have seen so videos of and I like watching nature
videos of like a lion who just got a little
(39:12):
what is it like, a little animal of whatever sort,
obviously a prey and they will kind of tunt the
prey and for a few sometimes for days, they will
keep them alive and they will almost like torture the
prey before they eat the prey. And it's they exert
that control. It's kind of funny to watch, but that's
(39:33):
what narcissists do.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
They will keep you. They won't let you run away.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
They will use and deploy whatever resources that means necessary
to keep you in that vortex.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
And in the.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Other side, people are probably like, well, why don't you
just leave? I just heard I've heard this many many times.
Why don't they just leave? And so, until or unless
you are the subject or the victim of somebody with
narcissistic tendencies, you probably cannot understand it because from the
outside it really looks like it's it's unthinkable. Well, if
(40:10):
somebody's abusing you, somebody's shaming you, if somebody is not
good for you, you just stay away.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
From them.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Well, people, if the world was like that, not a
lot of people would be in these kinds of situations.
This happens so many times. In this case is adity case,
which is very very high profile and very well known
and all over the media, But this is happening every
day in our families, with our neighbors, with friends, with acquaintances.
(40:40):
This is happening every single day, and even in a
lot of people's lives. There's a lot of people, men
and women, but tends to be more women than men.
But men are also trapped in these dynamics because the
psychological power that these people, the narcissistics people, the psychopaths
(41:02):
exert over their victims is tremendous. When the abuse starts happening,
with that grooming, with that psychological bond that they're trying
to really get going and to solidify, it's harder to
run away from that because that person made you really
(41:23):
believe that there was nothing else in that universe except
for them. They're the only ones that can skyrock.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
At your career. They have your future in their hands.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
They're the only ones that really want to help you,
or they're the only ones who really understand you. They're
the only ones who really care about you. And that's
again some of the tactics that these people use. If
it's not ditty, if it's somebody else in a relationship,
in a situation in which you're looking at it from
the outside and thinking, how can she or how can he?
(41:54):
Stay in the inside, he has said, nobody else will
love you, Nobody else will love you like I do.
Look at you, You're unlovable. I mean, your father, your
mother didn't even love you. They abandoned you. I am
the one. I'm the one who's here for you. I'm
the one who puts up with you. I am the
one who really like after all the flaws that I
(42:15):
have seen in you, and they obviously throw those flaws
in their face.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
I'm here. So if you leave, what are you gonna do.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
You're gonna be alone, You're gonna be sad, You're gonna
You're not gonna be anyone. I am everything, and I
make you be someone just by being with you. People
for people to understand, abuse doesn't happen in a continuum.
The continuum is it's not like I beat you up
every day twenty four to seven. The abuse happens as
(42:46):
a Oh, there was a glimpse of happiness and joy.
Oh there was a little kiss. Maybe there was a
little exciting sex session. Maybe he was kind one day.
Now he is not kind thirty days. But the one
day that he's kind, you are tricked into, oh what what,
(43:07):
that's what he's really like, that's what he's capable of doing.
I see him or I see her as how he
really is. I know that they can be better, and
I'm going to stick around because they just need more
of me, more of my love.
Speaker 4 (43:24):
Or in this other case, actually it's true.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
If it's going to bomb my career, if it's going
to assassinate my character, if it has control of the industry,
and he's going to make sure that I will never
ever get a contract with anybody else, and all my
dreams now are out the door.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
My faith is in this person's hands.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
That's a form of manipulation.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Absolutely, But yes, no, I get that, and I want
people to also hear that it does not matter. I
love how you point this out. This happens to doctors,
This happens to lawyers, you know, and you know, to
people who are have been educated, to teachers, to scholars,
you know, and It doesn't matter what a person looks like.
(44:12):
You know, just because these women are beautiful does not
mean you know that a beautiful woman, a beautiful person
can't believe or get you know, cohersed or manipulated, because
I am telling you that it starts with wherever they
are or were psychologically when they were met this person,
(44:35):
right when they started this relationship, and it could be anybody,
because we all go through things, and we all have
a past, and I just think that I want us
to all be careful about saying what we would do
if we were in a situation, because if you ain't
never been in a situation, you.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Don't know what you would do.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
And if you were in that situation, you would love
for people to be more empathy and compassionate about the
pain that you've experienced and just hearing your story. So
let me let me let me ask you this, doctor TANGI,
how do societal perceptions of masculinity, dominance, and sexuality contribute
(45:22):
to minimizing or overlooking abusive behavior and powerful men? You
want me to repeat that.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
Oh, well, you don't have to, because that's actually I
think at the core of this question. Recently, I saw
a podcast of somebody who was from a very restrictive religion,
and they were talking about the doctrines and the dogmas
(45:53):
that really shape what masculinity is and what femininity should be.
And although people think that those religious enclaves would have
definitely higher standards for these definitions and would be more restrictive,
this is in all societies.
Speaker 4 (46:14):
All over the world, with a few exceptions.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
So we have all been raised to think and this
has a very deep component in religion which shapes culture.
That men are men, and they cannot control themselves.
Speaker 4 (46:33):
They are who they are, They have urges.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
They're kind of very close to animals that cannot control
their sexual urges, and it is up to women to
keep the guard rails so men don't stray. And that's
really really at the core of this problem. And so
if the woman goes along with it, then it must
(46:56):
be her fault.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
Well must be her fault.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
She was either too pretty, she dressed too nicely or
too provocatively, or she wasn't strong enough, she didn't say
no vigorously enough or loud enough. But she was the
one who had to be in control of the situation.
And so we cut more slack to men than we
(47:19):
do for women, and so women are in the other
side of this being shamed all the time because they
didn't stop it, because they didn't again, they didn't say
no loud enough. You know that there are countries and
these are industrialized countries, not third world countries. Like people
would assume that in which rape laws they state that
(47:46):
if the woman didn't fight hard enough to have physical
evidence of that fight, it.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Is not rape.
Speaker 3 (47:56):
It was not rape because she didn't fight strong enough,
so she doesn't have bruises and cuts and abrasions in
her body, then it couldn't could have not been raped.
So now people also have to understand that people individuals
have different ways of dealing with these very dramatic situations.
(48:19):
You know, the fight, flight or fawn, which is the
other F. I have a Ford F but it's not
for this podcast, but the fight, flight or fawn, and
the fight is obviously I am confronted with this situation
in front of me, and I'm going to kick, scratch, punch,
(48:40):
I'm gonna do whatever it is that is in my
power to not let this happen and come upon me.
The flight obviously everybody understands. It's like I say, I'm.
Speaker 4 (48:52):
Gonna go in the other direction. I'm just gonna run
away as fast as i can.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
But the fawn is I'm going to kind of commiserate
with what's happening. I'm going to conform to protect myself
instead of dying in the fighting.
Speaker 4 (49:06):
Instead of running knowing that I'm not.
Speaker 3 (49:09):
Going to be able to outrun the lion, that would
be me I would fund if I cannot outrun the lion,
I'm not even going to And these are not conscious processes,
by the way, people, these are subconscious. You don't know
what you would do in that situation because your primitive
(49:29):
brain takes over and you just do what you're going
to do, and we don't have experiments to know how
you're going to react. So funing is another protective mechanism
that people will do. And so instead of running away
instead of fighting, I'm just going to kind of play along.
Speaker 4 (49:51):
I am going to maybe try.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
To understand the trauma bond that you were talking about before. Well,
that happens with time obviously, but initially I'm just going
to play along to keep myself safe. I don't have
the strength maybe or I don't have the strategies to
cope with the situation, so my coping mechanism will be
(50:14):
kind of morphing into the situation, so I keep myself safe.
Speaker 4 (50:18):
And so those are the ways in which you.
Speaker 3 (50:23):
React to very very dramatic situations that put you in danger.
Speaker 4 (50:28):
And so if you fawn.
Speaker 3 (50:31):
This is among what is expected from the f's that
I mentioned before, fight flight, fawn.
Speaker 4 (50:38):
And so.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
With women, though if they fight, it's like, oh, okay, well,
maybe you still brought it upon you because you were
walking too late at night, you were not accompanied by somebody,
which is what I was hearing this guy say about
his ex religion. Well, you were not accompanied by a
chaperone or a male, or you didn't keep your distance
(51:03):
from the man, or you probably smiled at the man
too much, or you probably said yes when you could
have said no, or you said yet you said no,
but it really didn't sound like a no. It was
not convincing. It was kind of a no, but it
said yes. Plus, we were told before the education that
we've had on consent. We were told so many times,
(51:27):
so many times.
Speaker 4 (51:28):
You probably remember. I am from that generation as well. Well.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
If a guy is very very pesti and pesky, they
like you and guys were told, what you have to
do is just go after it, and go after and
go after it.
Speaker 4 (51:41):
Because when she's saying no, she actually means yes. We
just have to convince her.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
And so they don't take the no as a full sentence.
They take the no as a challenge. Oh, she really
wants to be pursued. Oh she really wants to be seduced,
she really really wants to be controul And so that
is those are the toxic masculinity realms. But again, women
(52:07):
are always kind of the stoppers of this. Then this
is very unfair because you're judging women for behaviors that
you taught men that were okay and that you encouraged
them to pursue to be that way. And now women
we always have to be the ones who control quote
unquote what happens, and if they go off, it's our
(52:29):
fault because we weren't strong enough, we weren't assertive enough,
we weren't the wrong place at the wrong time, we
didn't say the right words, and so that's what happens,
and that's why we have so much victim shaming instead
of empathy and compassion.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
Yes, yes, yes, yes yes.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
And if other women could just get this and we
bond together and we educate and we teach. Because it
gets to me when women victim shame other women. I mean, yes,
it it bothers me when men do it, but when
women do it, it's like, see yourself in that position, girl,
(53:07):
because they don't even understand. But absolutely, doctor Changi, society
makes the problem always the woman. It's always her because
she didn't do it enough, she didn't speak out enough,
she didn't wear this, she didn't wear What about holding
men accountable for their behavior?
Speaker 2 (53:25):
So that's the thing that gets so frustrating for me.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
You know, one time I was working with someone who
who told me that you know when she went and
you spoke about colts in church when she would go
to church or whatever, and you know how they do
the praise dancing. You know how in some church, you know,
the women do the praise dancing. Well, when she was
(53:49):
I want to say, sixteen years old, sixteen seventeen, she
wasn't an adult yet and she was praise dancing and
she had started praise dancing when she may have been
I don't know, thirteen right, So she had been doing
it for some year. Well, when she got sixteen because
her body started to fill out although she still was
wrapped in chets. She wasn't up there in a bikini
and she wasn't twerking. Do you know that the women
(54:12):
of the church made her she had to stop praise
dancing because they said that she was the problem. She
was gonna entice the men their husbands in the church.
That is so freaking disgusting. So they shamed her for
her body and just for her wanting to do whatever
it was she was doing, just being honest, praise dancing,
(54:35):
praise dancing for Jesus. They had to sit it down.
I just think that that is disgusting. But yep, that
that that you hit it on the nail. Okay, as
we're winding down, okayhead, you want to say something. I
was gonna ask you a question about sexuality in regards
to sexual orientation, because I do know that that is
(54:58):
also a part of your space specialty.
Speaker 2 (55:00):
So I know a lot of people who you know.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Have been watching this trial and learned that Diddy, a
male has a sexual desire to watch, uh these women
have sex with other men and then kind of uh kind.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
Of play in.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
I want to I don't know what I can say
on him, what I can't say.
Speaker 2 (55:26):
But let's just say, I.
Speaker 1 (55:29):
Don't know, TANGI you might know the more appropriate word
to say than what's.
Speaker 2 (55:32):
Actually on my mind. So on their finishings, I'll say.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
That, so you know, when the sex worker would finish
on Cassie and sex worker would finish on Jane Doe,
then allegedly Diddy would like to kind of play in it,
or he would actually watch, you know, the men having
sex with them, and he would you know, refer to
their you know, to their their their their penises, their
(55:58):
you know, and and be really enticed by them watching it.
So I'm saying all that to say, does that mean
that Diddy is gay? Just asking that question.
Speaker 3 (56:11):
Well, I do not know if it's gay, but if
the actually I can say probably that he's not gay.
I could probably say that a categorically. So being homosexual
is being attracted to the person of your own sex,
and so that doesn't seem to be the case with him.
And so I do not know if he had sexual
(56:33):
relations with people from his own sex, in which case
he would be maybe bisexual or maybe by curious, but
not definitely not homosexual. Uh, he is very well known
to be with beautiful women. If he's a clause that
at homosexual, I do not know, but based on behavior
and history, he does not fit the definition of being homosexual.
(56:57):
So I think people can probably put that to rest.
Speaker 4 (57:02):
Now. If he is bisexual, it depends.
Speaker 3 (57:05):
If he is playing with men sexually, then probably he is.
If he is just playing with men occasionally, maybe he's
just by curious, maybe he's like, well, I'll go with
a flow. If the situation presents itself having a it's
called the hot wife king or hot wife fantasy, in
(57:26):
which your wife or your partner sexual partner is so
desirable that you enjoy watching her get other men excited
and her enjoying the presence of other men. That doesn't
make you homosexual at all. This is actually a kink.
(57:47):
And so another thing is people probably would use the
word could, and cockold is a totally different thing. Cockld
is when there's an aspect of humiliation towards the person
who is watching and not participating in having his wife
or sexual partner being serviced sexually by somebody else. So
(58:09):
the coupld has an element of humiliation that the hot
wife fantasy does not. And so in the hot wife
fantasy is just kind of like, oh, so exciting, look
at her, She's so high, she's so cute, she's so sexy, whatever,
that all men want to be with her and really
really enjoy her body and her sexually. And so, but
(58:32):
in Diddy's case, I have to also clarify that for us,
when sex is used for abusive purposes, that's not a
sexuality per se, so that this is pathological.
Speaker 4 (58:50):
And so if this is.
Speaker 3 (58:51):
Being done under the auspices of having control over the victims,
over the praise, this is a pathological behavior. And it
doesn't really matter what your sexuality is. Abuses abuse and
it's separate from sexuality. Just because I have a hot
(59:13):
wife fantasy doesn't mean that I coerse my wife into
having sex with other guys for my own sexual gratification.
So that's when that narcissistic element and that sociopath if
you want to call it, that element comes into play
versus it just being a healthy sexuality. So this is
(59:34):
not a healthy sexuality. This I believe, this is all
against self serving. This is all about what he wanted,
what he liked, and this is about what he wanted
to take for himself. Regardless of what the other people
were thinking or feeling in that moment, evidenced by again,
if it was truly a healthy sexuality, a healthy vidiism.
Speaker 4 (59:55):
Relationship, he would have been.
Speaker 3 (59:56):
Checking in with her and saying, hey, honey, do you
still want to do this?
Speaker 4 (01:00:00):
Is it okay?
Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
So stop it at any time if you don't want
to go through with this, it's okay, we can stop.
Nothing will happen. I will still love you, we can
do it in your terms. Uh, And that was not
happening supposedly. So that is the difference between a pathological
behavior that is criminal and constitutes abuse versus a healthy
(01:00:21):
BDS and relationship and dynamic.
Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
That was excellent, excellent, excellent, as excellent.
Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
That was so good.
Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
That was good because I think to your point you said,
it doesn't matter whether he's gauged straight by saying like that,
ain't even the point here.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
What the point is here.
Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Is is that it is abusive, which which leads to
a path a logic cold behavior, which means that there
is a diagnosis there. And uh, and yeah, it just
it's abusive.
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
It's abusive.
Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
And I believe, I believe I didn't say this, but
she pay anybody should pay for being abusive.
Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Oh my gosh. Okay, so that was excellent.
Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
So I want to end by just asking, hmm, okay,
what does recovery look like for someone who has experienced
prolonged sexual abuse under the guise of a romantic or
(01:01:27):
glamorous relationship? Yeah, what does recovery look like for these victims?
Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Well, recovery definitely is a long road and it's not
a straight line. So I just want to say realistically
that this takes years and years to untangle because first
of all, you have to master yourself right, not only
you have to process everything that happened in your past,
you have to know what the root cause is. And
then you have to work with your own sense of
(01:01:56):
self which again and this in these cases, people are
very skilled at taking your the soul away from you,
taking your sense of autonomy and integrity as a person,
taking your identity away, and you have to reconstruct who
you are, and that takes years and so lots of
(01:02:16):
psychological therapy, so lots of different techniques, trauma informed and
trauma specialists. Specifically, I I'm trauma aware, but I I
and I have worked with trauma before.
Speaker 4 (01:02:37):
And let me tell you. It is a whole.
Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
Different animal when you take a person who's just kind
of navigating life and having struggles versus a person who.
Speaker 4 (01:02:45):
Has deeply rooted trauma.
Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
It is a skill, it is a specialty, and people
who have undergone all of these relationships that are so
toxic and so damaging, they have to look for professionals
who are trauma informed or trauma specialists.
Speaker 4 (01:03:04):
Definitely surround yourself with people who.
Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
Are going to build you up and help you rebuild
and pick up the pieces of yourself. Do not listen
or do not really stay with people who are not
contributing to your well being and to your mental health instability.
As you say, mental health is a lifestyle, and sometimes
you will have to cut off people that you love.
(01:03:30):
Many of these behaviors. Maybe of these patterns start in childhood.
Maybe it was your father, maybe it was your mother,
Maybe it was a grandparent, maybe it was an uncle.
But it was somebody, probably close to you that started
you on this journey. And sometimes you will either have
to keep your distance or cut ties altogether for your
(01:03:51):
mental sanity, and you will have to decide which pain
is greater, the pain of keeping these people in your life.
Knowing that they're so damaging to you every time they
interact with you, or the pain of grieving, they're inexistence
in your life from the point when you cut off
(01:04:12):
that relationship and moving forward, you have to decide which
pain will be greater. And many people decide, well, what's
my mother or was my father? And I love them,
but in order for me to save myself, I cannot
have a relationship with them anymore. And you know what,
if you decide that that's okay. Society also makes us
sometimes continue to keep bonds with people who are damaging
(01:04:35):
to us because they're our DNA and blood. And so
I encourage you to definitely seek your own betterment and
surround yourself with people with tribe, with family that you
choose instead of family that have DNA ties to you,
(01:04:56):
because sometimes those are the ones who are going to
be better for you.
Speaker 4 (01:05:00):
And to know that.
Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
Because somebody did this to you and you are feeling
broken right now, you don't have to remain broken.
Speaker 4 (01:05:09):
You can choose to heal, You.
Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Can choose to be on a different path, and the
future can be better for you. And I would wish
that every victim knows this and they will choose themselves
over the kind of life that somebody stripped them away
from and made a determination that they would have. That
doesn't define you. You can define your own self moving forward.
Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
Absolutely, yes, yes I couldcur so, Doctor TANGI please tell
everyone where they can find you at.
Speaker 4 (01:05:49):
Well, very easy.
Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
If you go to Texas Sexualhealth dot com. Texas sexual
health dot com, you can find me there. You can
be in contact with me via email, you can call,
or you can see obviously if there's anything that we
can help you with.
Speaker 4 (01:06:05):
I love you.
Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
For bringing this forward, for talking about this topic, especially
in our communities. Our communities, our minority communities are particularly
vulnerable to these kinds of behaviors and these kinds of situations.
Speaker 4 (01:06:22):
So thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
For bringing light into a topic that in our communities
is taboo. And by raising our voices talking about it
and creating spaces for conversations about this, we are empowering people,
maybe one at a time, but that incremental value will
(01:06:44):
pay off.
Speaker 4 (01:06:44):
In the future.
Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
So thank you so much, Andrea for doing this and
for continuing to be a voice for all of us.
Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Oh my gosh, thank you Dottor Tanji for your intelligence,
for showing up for your stickituitiveness, for always being available
when I call you and I say that I need you,
Like when I wanted to talk about this, I'm like
God was like, you know who to call, you know
(01:07:13):
who the call. And thank you for being so responsive
and always supported me.
Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
I thank you. I love the brilliance, I love everything.
Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
I love everything about you. But thank you for coming.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for joining me and Okay, family,
So that was another episode of the Mental Health is
a Lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
Podcast and family. Let me just tell y'all, this trial
is not over. And when I tell you, I'm so
into it. I am so into and so I'm about
to after my clients, you know, tonight this is where
I am.
Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Okay, I'm going to find out what happened in the notes,
everything in court, okay, AnyWho, I'm still on the case.
Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
What man believe?
Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
I will see you next week on our next episode.
Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
And don't you ever forget I love you.
This podcast is not a substitute for our relationship with
your mental health professional. Hey hey, hey, family, welcome back
to another episode of The Mental Health Is a lifestyle
podcast with your girl, Andrea wise Brown. And if you
(00:25):
happen to be scrolling by and you haven't done so already.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Please join the family.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
All you have to do is click that little button
and subscribe to the podcast, like the podcast, and then
share this podcast episode because like all others, it's going
to be good, but this one here is gonna be
It's gonna be juicy and good, family, because we have
(00:53):
that expert that y'all love back with us. We have
doctor Tanji the sex biologists.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
In the house.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
So come on, family, Yeah, let's give her some praise. Hello,
doctor Tangi.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Hello, good morning. I'm so excited to be joining you again.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Absolutely well, okay, so before I get into a we
get into conversation, I just want to give our viewers
for the new family members who haven't been introduced to you.
I just wanted to give them a little, you know,
snippet of who you are. You are a very accomplished woman.
(01:40):
You're an expert in your field. That's what I know
for sure. That's why I have you back again. You're
freaking brilliant. But I'm just gonna throw this out there.
So doctor Tangi h works with and she, as I said,
she's a sexologist, and she works with individuals and couple
of any sex orientation or identity and uses a multidisciplinary
(02:07):
and sex positive approach to find solutions for sexual dysfunctions
and intimacy concerns so people can live the sex life
they envision and deserve.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Love that.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
I love that for your clients.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yes, yes, yes, I love it.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Okay, So doctor Tangi, what's been over the news now?
And I have been following this case so closely. I'm
sure not everyone else has been, but I have been.
It's the Diddy case, the Diddy versus the United States
case that's going on now, and I think it's probably
(02:54):
going to wrap up pretty soon. So the reason why
I wanted to come on and have a real conversation
with a sexologist, you an expert, is because the Internet has.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Been buzzing with all of these.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Opinions of of the sex you know, escapades that they
have been allegedly having. They've been it's been buzzing about
sexuality sexual orientation, Diddy sexual orientation, and you know, always
I'm gonna give you the space to correct me if
(03:31):
I'm wrong. But his orientation and then this, this has
been a big one. It's victim shaming. So I keep
hearing that that what he's alleged to have been cohersing
these women to have these performed these sexual acts in
front of him and with him, and so everybody, you know,
(03:52):
people are buzzing.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I don't want to say everybody. It's a generalization.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
However, the most popular opinion that I've been seeing is
is she wanted it.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
She wanted it, she wasn't cohersed. She and then Jane Doe.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So I'm just gonna talk, Uh, I'm just gonna really
point out these allegations.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Before we move forward.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
He was alleged to do many things, but we're just
talking about the sex part and the cohersion today because
I want people to understand that there is a psychological
component to this. And just because you see one thing,
you know, you can't you just can't judge a book
by its cover. The key allegations that we are going
to talk about today, and these are allegations, okay, is
(04:37):
that they would have these freak offs, and the freakofs
are described as elaborate multi day sex parties featuring drug
used ketamine, ecstasy GHB, where victims were allegedly recorded assaults
(05:00):
and blackmailed with tapes as threats. Then the next one
we want to talk about, because they all kind of
roll up in here together, is cohersion and abuse. So
some testimonies from exes, including Cassie Ventra and Jane Doe
describe physical assault, punching, dragging, kicking, accompanied by emotional manipulation
(05:30):
and threats to withhold money, end careers or expose private recordings. Okay,
and we know that a part of the evidence was
the tape that I believe. I know I saw it
and I'm ask you in a minute if you saw it.
(05:51):
But there was a tape where allegedly Cassie said she
was trying to escape a freak off because she said
she did not want to do it, and he beat
her brutally and dragged her down the hallway. So I
believe that all of y'all saw the tape. I kind
of talked about the tape in the early episodes. So
(06:12):
here we go. So doctor TANGI are you familiar with
the case.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I am familiar with the case, and I saw the tape.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yes, okay, okay, good, good, good, good good.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So my first question to you.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Well, I just wanted to start by saying that, obviously
there are some allegations, but the violence that we saw
on the tape are not allegations that happened. I think
what's behind the defense on what happened on the tape
as a motive, and so the tapes are not allegations
that actually happened. And when we say the word allegations,
(06:51):
I just want people to understand that because this is
in a criminal trial court and I'm not a lawyer,
but what means that it's an allegation doesn't mean that
it's true or untrue. It means that it's being examined
and it's going to be judged according to the law
and light of the evidence that has been presented. And
(07:13):
so I don't want people to necessarily take the word
allegation as either a denial or a factual thing. It's
just that we are meaning to say that it hasn't
been judged in the courts as something that actually happened.
(07:34):
So just wanted to put that out there for those
people who don't understand the meaning of the word allegation.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Okay, thank you very much for that clarity. Yes I
concur and yes we are not lawyers.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So, from a sex therapy therapist perspective, how do you
define the difference between consensual kinks and cohersion or abuse?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
And do abuse?
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Because this is a case with a sexual a strong
sexual component. I want to remind people that abuses abuse
regardless of if it's financial abuse, psychological abuse, physical abuse,
sexual abuse, and so people understand better the oh when
somebody beats you up with a stick, or somebody slaps you,
(08:32):
or somebody kicks you or punches you, people can understand
abuse better from that perspective. Psychological abuse is so much
harder for people to understand because it almost looks like
the victims are participating in the abuse willingly, and which
obviously wouldn't constitute it as abuse. So what is abuse?
(08:55):
Abuse is when it's against your will, when it dehumanizes you,
when it really attempts against your integrity, your autonomy as
a person, and it strives you of your identity, of
your autonomy, of your ability to intelligently clearly without influence,
(09:18):
make your own determinations and decisions.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
So that's the difference.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Well, a kink is consensual and both parties go to
the situation knowingly and with an enthusiastic agreement and consent
of what's about to happen. So let's say that somebody
has to slap me on the face kink which actually exists,
and that's how they receive some sort of gratification. The
(09:47):
dominant person and the submissive person would come together and
talk about it and say, okay, well this is my
kink and I like to be slapped on the face.
I like to be slapped on the face gently, slightly, hardly, whatever.
So the parameters are, they are in ample discussion, and
(10:12):
the dominant would agree to the terms and conditions that
the submissive.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Person actually gives them.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
So in a kink situation a BDSM situation, we say
that the submissive person is the one who has the
power and the control because it's the one that agrees
to be in that role and is the one that
can stop it at any time. So that's another very
tailing sign of a BDS and a healthy DSM relationship
(10:43):
and abuse. The person who has the kink and who
is also the submissive party, can stop what's happening at
any time, and when they say the code word, the
safe word, the dominant person stops, retreats and checks in
(11:04):
with a person are you okay? How are you feeling?
And provides also aftercare. So in the aftercare is kind
of a nurturing part after the DSM activity has ended,
and so it is a more systematic and methodological process
than people may think. It's not just you getting spanked
during sex. That's not BDSM. That may make you a
(11:27):
little kinky, but that's not really what DSM is.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
What VIDSM is is an.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Agreement to freely participate in the activity, and the submissive person,
who is the subject of the humiliation or the intake
of the dominance of the other person, is always in
control and always able to stop, slow down, change the
(11:57):
course of the situation at will, and the dominant person
follows whatever the ob missive person can stand and what
this ob missive person is giving them as far as
cues or verbal communication at all times so that respect
is clearly established and followed to a t. So, for instance,
(12:20):
let's say that I have a spanking kink.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
If I am the.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Submissive then I would say my safe word. And let's
say I always say that the same word is banana.
I just it sounds funny. So I say banana, and
this dominant person knows that banana means I've reached my limit,
maybe of pain of stimulation.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
I'm overwhelmed.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I don't want to continue with this, and the dominant
person stops right away, doesn't ask me, oh my god.
Well I don't want to stop. I just want to
keep going. Well, you take this, I don't care. We
agree to this. There's none of that happening. It stopped
as soon as the submissive says banana, and the dominant
(13:07):
person is supposed to take care emotionally and physically of
the submissive person in that moment and after the activity
has ended successfully.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
So that is the difference. Abuse.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
In the other hand, the abuser has the control. The
abuser calls all the shots. The abuser dictates what's happening,
how with what frequency, with what force, And if I
say stop, and I'm in an abusive situation, it doesn't
really matter.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
It doesn't matter if I say banana, it doesn't matter
if I say to the fruity.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
The abuse is going to continue because the abuser is
taking that power to exert their dominance over me relentlessly.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
That's the difference. And it's not consensual.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Got it good? And let me ask this that was
so good?
Speaker 1 (13:58):
So because now I'm just thinking right that when you
said it's at the the whatever party, the person says, Okay,
I'm with this, now, I want to do this. We
have a safe word. But then if they decide at
any point during that sexual session and I'm thinking session
(14:18):
because I'm thinking freak off. But at any point if
they decide I don't want to do this anymore, you know,
I don't want it or I don't like it. If
it continues by one of the people within this sexual relationship,
then that can turn into abuse.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Is that what you said?
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Absolutely, hold on suck Yes, absolutely. So what happens is that,
again the control is not in the hands of the
submissive that gave their consent. Now, people also have to
understand one of the problems is that we do not
teach or understand consent. Consent is or means that I
(15:05):
gave it, but I can take it away at any
time with no negative consequences.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
That's what consent means.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
It means that okay, Andrea, you and I let's go
to the mall together, let's walk them all.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
And midpoint I say.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
You know, when Andrea, I changed to my mind, I
don't want to walk them all. You say, okay, that's fine,
let's get back to our cars instead of well, now
you're walking them all because you said you wanted to
walk them all. I don't care if you don't want
to walk them all. We are walking them all because
you said that you wanted this. That's when it turns abusive,
(15:46):
even if you said before that.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
You wanted it.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
When you can stop it and it's respected, that's consent.
Consent doesn't need an explanation. We always say that no
is a is a complete sentence. The minute we say no,
everything should stop and we shouldn't be facing negative consequences
or being made to continue with whatever it is that
(16:14):
I consented to against my will because supposedly I said
yes before. So that's the line of consent that when
it's crossed, it becomes abused.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I love that analogy.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
That was excellent, especially because I really don't like walking
the mall with friends.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
So you know, I'm just literally thinking like no.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
At any time I need to go and if I
feel like I, oh, you know, they try to guilt me.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
What I'm literally almost having a panic attack.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
So I get that that can turn to that was
that was excellent, excellent, And then I want to add
in So.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
So doctor TANGI what if we.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
How is it a What does it look like when
you add drugs to the equation. So when one of
the people in this sexual I don't know agreement, we
could say I don't even know if it's an agreement,
but okay, they're having sex.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Let's just say it a freak off.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
And before we start, I'm always popping, putting a pill
in your mouth. I'm putting all Allegedly, this is what
Cassie said. What happen is, you know, when he was
ready to do a freak off, she would say to him, well,
I really just want to spend time with you and me.
Can can you and I just spend time together? And
(17:41):
he was like, girl, like, let's come on hand, do
this freak off first, and then we'll see what happens.
And he would always say, open your mouth and put
a pill in. So that was something that she alleged
that happened over and over again. And even in times
when she said she did not want to do it,
he would tell her, after maybe being physically abusive, to
(18:04):
shut up, put on her heels, get dressed, and he
would pop a pill in a mouth. And not only
Cassie that was a part of her testimony allegedly, but
also the Jane Doe. So Jane Doe and I know
people see both of them differently. I get that some
people will judge and say that they feel like Jane
(18:25):
Doe was really in it for the money, and we
can talk about that, and so she wasn't being cohersed. However,
they both testified that he would put.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Pills in their mouths, you know, have them.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
To take drugs, because they neither one of them took
drugs before they hung out with him or interacted with him.
So when you bring drugs into the equation, doctor TANGI
is that abuse cohersion? What does that look like?
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Well? Definitely.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
So abuse can take many forms, and coercion is just
one form of abuse. Coercion what coercion means is I
am going to exert my dominance by manipulation, by just
kind of leading you, not gently, but leading you to
(19:21):
the situation in a way in which it seems like
you are agreeing to it, but your instinct and maybe
your initial response was no or even i'm not sure,
which again consent. The definition of consent when I say
I'm not sure, maybe not now let me think about it.
(19:41):
All of those things mean no. All of those things
mean at least not at this moment. So again, consent
very important. Coercion when it's happening, it's actually leading the
person and most times it's not a gently or a
gentle leading to it into agreeing to things that they would.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Normally not agree with.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
I think in Europe it's accepted the term chemical manipulation,
and chemical manipulation is when the person is given drugs
or some mind altering substance to.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Ensure their compliance.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
There is a very famous case in Europe, and I
don't know if people who are following this case know
about it. Is this French lady who for about maybe
twenty years, her husband was drugging her. The husband, father
of her children, was drugging her, bringing men into their
(20:47):
home and recording his wife passed out having sex with
these men, and apparently he probably did it with the
daughter as well, and so he's in jail.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
She has been outspoken about it.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
The daughter has written a book and she was on
tour here in the United States recently. And so this
is called chemical manipulation. Chemical manipulation, it's just that is
when I want you to do something that requires a
lot of energy from your body, probably I'm going to
give you a stimulant. And when I want to subdue you,
(21:24):
I am going to give you something that will strip
you of the feistiness or the ability for you to
think clearly and not comply with what's happening around you.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
So it's a way of control. And so but this
wouldn't mean coercion.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Coercion is the mind the psychological manipulation that leads to
the person to again quote unquote participate, or people would
see it as an agreement versus a chemical manipulation, which
is me now making sure.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
That you are in an altered state.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
So you comply completely and so basically stripping you of
your ability even to fight. And this is a very
important piece of evidence. Now, in order for there to
be chemical manipulation, there has to be two elements. There
has to be either one element of it being incomespeak heous.
(22:27):
So for instance, in the French lady's case, he was
putting these substances in her meals, her drinks, so she
didn't know that she was ingesting this, and she would say, like,
I feel weird, I feel off. She actually apparently went
to a lot of doctors, so she would feel like dizzy, sleepy, tired,
and she didn't know why, and she didn't know that
these substances were being given to her in her drinks
(22:50):
and in her food. Now with the other side of
the chemical manipulation, there has to be coercion.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
So I have to be coerced.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Enough to be able to open my mouth and take
the pill, or I can be tricked into it.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Well, this is going to make you feel better.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
This is going and I don't know obviously what the
how these pills were delivered under what messaging, but it
could be well, just you know, just open your mouth.
That's going to make you feel better, that's going to
take the pain away. This is just to make you relax,
you know whatever else. But if there's coercion and the
manipulation is really being done successfully, when the person says
(23:33):
open your mouth, take this, basically the victim would just
comply open their mouth and take that, and in their
minds again people attribute maybe a different meaning because this
has such a strong sexual component, and when you add
sex to anything, people just the emotions and the opinions
(23:56):
just boil and it becomes like lava in a.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Volcan, you know.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
But this is no different than a husband that beats
of a wife, and we tend to have more sympathy
for that, even though many times we also victim shame
and we also say like, well, what didn't she leave?
But we tend to have more sympathy for somebody who
has bruises, et cetera. Maybe seeing that tape probably made
some people kind of change their minds and set and say, well, wow,
(24:25):
that was a brutal attack. I mean, he's a tall guy,
he's strong, he's fit, and she has no chance really
of defending herself against them. So people can understand the
dynamic better of the physical abuse part of things, but
not necessarily of the psychological and that's when the manipulative
coercion comes in.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I love that. That's so good.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
That's so good, And no, I had no idea about
that case, nothing about that case.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
That is horrible, horrific.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
I'm so glad that they speaking out using it voices,
writing book like that is a freak amazing. So I
am going to look that up. That's so good. That's
so good. And I love the way you point out
the difference between pretty much back in the day we
would say slipped slipping a mickey like giving someone putting
(25:19):
a drug in someone's drink, you know, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I believe that's what Bill kys.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Yeah, that's like.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
And so that's a kind of the leader that has
been accepted by it. The date rape is when somebody
slipped something in a drink, for instance, and you don't
know that this is happening, and so you're just you're
just minding your own business talking to that person drinking something,
or the person says, hey, take this, and it's just
a drink. It seems like a cup of a glass
of wine or a cup of water or whatever it
(25:52):
is that you're drinking, and in fact that person just
slipped something without your knowledge, and then you are rendered
unconscious or enable or unable to act in ranch case, obviously,
again it's abuse.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Right, absolutely absolutely, But and I just want to clarify
you was saying so even him saying to her you know,
will take this. You know, even if she said she
didn't want to do whatever the thing was, well just
put this in your mouth and take this. That that
could also be abuse, abusive.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Well, it's a chemical it's chemical manipulation for sure. But
it happened because he is he used enough coercion to
be able to influence her decision even at that moment.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
And I want to I want to piggyback on that
by just saying this, ask you this, Okay, when someone
has significantly more power, like celebrity over you know, a
younger or less.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Powerful partner, how does that affect sexual consent?
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Well, power dynamics are very very important, and that's why
you know that in companies they have these policies like
supervisor cannot date, you know, a subordinate or you know,
the the higher ranking officials cannot be with lower ranking
people in companies. It's because a power differential puts, especially
(27:33):
the lower ranking.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
People in a disadvantage.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Because when you have somebody like a president that is
calling a junior or an intern, which you know, this
has happened, and it's happened so many times in corporate America,
in politics and universities, et cetera. And I've known of
many many cases when somebody calls you a director, vice president,
(27:58):
of president, or CEO, your supervisor, and you are trying
to just do your best, go there, make it, and
all of a sudden, they breach that relationship and they
start going into either in a propriety or even if
it looks again.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Quote unquote as consensual, that.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Power differential really puts the lower ranking person at a disadvantage.
So again that's why this has been studied and agreed
upon and companies, corporations, entities, they have these policies in
place because you can use this as a mechanism for
(28:40):
coercial abuse and things can get out of control. Also,
you know, obviously in the in companies, there could be
an unfair advantage as far as benefits, et cetera for
the person who is on a low lower ranking mode,
which can then flip very very quickly when the higher
ranking person changes their mind or you change the terms
(29:05):
of that agreement. And so it can be very very tricky.
So let's say in the case of a celebrity that
you are an aspiring celebrity, and this is so complex
and probably why people can't wrap their hands around. It
is because when you have somebody who says young, inexperienced,
(29:28):
aspiring to be something. And let's take this out of
this case, which seems to have very strong opinions and elicit.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
A lot of emotion. Let's say that it's just you
trying to make.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
It in corporate America, and all of a sudden you
have the CEO taken notice. And you are a young
twenty two year old right fresh out of college, and
the CEO notices you. You're cute, you're young, and you're thinking, wow,
I mean I want to make it. But this person
(30:01):
who is held in such a high regard, who has
so much power, who is in control of everything, who
is can't dictate your destiny, and who's also charming because
these people don't understand they're also charismatic.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
They're attractive.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
They're not only powerful because of the position, they actually
got to their position because of their talent, skill, because
of their people's skills, because of their swag, because of
how they conduct themselves in the world. And so there
it is a twenty two year old right fresh out of.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
College, and they are.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Like, oh, wow, well the CEO is noticing me, I
must you know, be something special. I must have something special,
and they start grooming, so I know that you have
that in your notes, the grooming. So what is the grooming, Well,
the grooming is that preparation. The grooming is the little
step that these predators use to take that autonomy away
(31:07):
from you, slowly but surely. Is the compliments is the
preferential treatment?
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Is a law bombing.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
It is the you know, in case, let's say, twenty
two year old with a CEO, let's meet and I'll
fly you on.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
My private jet.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Oh my god, you'll fly me on your private jet.
I must be something so special. I have something to offer.
This is going to skyrocket my career. And so the
CEO is after obviously something else.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
But as a twenty two year old who doesn't.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Know the world, you're like, oh my god, I have
something special to offer. And attraction always feels good for
the most part, so especially when it's coming from somebody
who is way, way way high up from where you are,
and so you're taking notice.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
No, doctor TANGI please, no, I'm loving that. I don't
I don't want to stop you. I just want you
to go right there. I was gonna ask you another question,
But you said something about attraction. What what what is
What did you say about attraction?
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Well, attraction, Uh, there's a there's a lot of things
that we're attracted to. And and also I want to
throw in another word that wasn't in our initial conversation backstage. Uh,
And it is narcissistic behavior. And somebody who's a narcissist.
And there are different types of narcissists. The maligna narcissists,
(32:36):
it is the one that is very unaware and unconcerned
about the well being of others. And they're not They
don't care what's happening to the other person. They're self serving.
They're there only for themselves, what serves them, what helps
them get ahead, what helps them get whatever they want,
(32:56):
And they will see everybody around them as so and
supply means whatever it is that I want to get
from you.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
So if I want to get sexual gratification from you, I.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Will recur to any means necessary to ensure that you
give that to me.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Coercion is one of them.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Whatever kind of manipulation it takes, chemical manipulation. So whatever
kind of submission control I can exert over the victim,
I will do because I just want to get what
I want. People have asked me many times, and I
have done some videos on what are.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Narcissists so sexually attractive? And they are.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
They are usually charming. They come in and fill the room.
They usually have lots of conversation. They have a lot
of bravado. They're very bargadocious, right. They don't mind talking
about themselves and their success and how they got to
where they are, and people who are in a different
(34:08):
stage or a different state in their lives they look
up to them like, Wow, they're so talented. Oh my god,
they're so wonderful, such wonderful people. And so people who
are lacking or look at those traits as aspirational whatever
it is that this narcissistic person was able to accomplish,
(34:28):
then they will identify with them and they will get
sucked into that vortex. And once you get sucked into
the vortex of a narcissist, they will take hold and
they will do everything possible.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
To not let go of that hold.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
It's almost like when an octopus kind of puts their
tentacles around you. They have those little sumption cups everywhere,
and to get them off, it's.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Really really hard. They want to hold on.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
To you because you're providing them with what they want
and what they need, and if you don't, the consequences
can be dire.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Absolutely absolutely, and you made me think of I was
just thinking of some other things that depending on where
a person, whether it's a woman or a man, but
where they are in their life and dependent on their
psychological state at the time that they meet a narcissis,
(35:24):
dependent on the trauma that they may have experienced during childhood.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Trauma bond can be formed.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
And just like the narcissis has this you know, a
difficult time of letting go of his supply i e.
That the person the victim that they've been taken advantage of.
Then the victim also although they may be in this
situation and they may not like it, they may not
want to be there, they could have even expressed it sometimes,
(35:55):
but it's really difficult for them to also leave and
break that trauma bond. But it's all because of their
psychological state when they met the said narcissist and their
family of origin, you know, trauma that they may have experienced.
So because some people can encounter narcissist and be like
(36:19):
oh my god, never, I'm not stay away from me.
But then there's some people who are, as you point out,
attracted to narcissists, and it has to do with their
psychological state at the time. I wanted to also say
when you mentioned attraction, so that this is pretty much
what I was really trying to talk about.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
So I'm glad you went here. But the whole thing
about the private jets.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
And you know, both of these women in the Diddy trial,
and this is the Jane Doe and the Cassie, they
all they both pointed out that when he first met them, right,
there was something that they saw was to gain, especially
Jane Doe. You know, he took her out on a
yacht for some days, like he took her on a
five day date. And on this five day date, you know,
(37:08):
she was on private jet. I do believe she was
on a boat, you know, on an island, you know,
just spending all of this time with him, when it
seemed as if, or it appears as if this was all,
you know, a part of his ploy to groom, the grooming.
So this is what you were talking about with the grooming,
(37:28):
and we're saying allegedly, right, allegedly, but this was I.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Mean, we are talking facts, but when I'm talking.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
About you know, Puffy and them, right, if the story
that they're saying is true found to be true, that
was a lot of the grooming, right is that, you know,
taking him out and doing all the things. And then
for Cassie, you know, he was promising her that he
was gonna put this album out.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
You know, you're gonna put I'm gonna put your album.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
Out, you know.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
So I love that you pointed out, you know, a
younger person, you know, or a person who has less power,
can be sucked in by by some grooming.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
And have to help people understand that what you're saying
is correct the psychological state of the person in that moment,
because even people who are very very strong, who have
strong personalities, who have maybe more perfect if you will
quote unquote childhoods, if you are grieving, for instance, that
(38:30):
will put you in a disadvantage and make you vulnerable
to a narcissist. And so anybody can actually be subjected
to a narcissistic behavior in the other side of it.
And people have to also understand that narcissists are very skilled.
(38:51):
They're very skilled at not only choosing their victims but
also keeping them. And so, I don't know if you
have seen so videos of and I like watching nature
videos of like a lion who just got a little
(39:12):
what is it like, a little animal of whatever sort,
obviously a prey and they will kind of tunt the
prey and for a few sometimes for days, they will
keep them alive and they will almost like torture the
prey before they eat the prey. And it's they exert
that control. It's kind of funny to watch, but that's
(39:33):
what narcissists do.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
They will keep you. They won't let you run away.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
They will use and deploy whatever resources that means necessary
to keep you in that vortex.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
And in the.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Other side, people are probably like, well, why don't you
just leave? I just heard I've heard this many many times.
Why don't they just leave? And so, until or unless
you are the subject or the victim of somebody with
narcissistic tendencies, you probably cannot understand it because from the
outside it really looks like it's it's unthinkable. Well, if
(40:10):
somebody's abusing you, somebody's shaming you, if somebody is not
good for you, you just stay away.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
From them.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Well, people, if the world was like that, not a
lot of people would be in these kinds of situations.
This happens so many times. In this case is adity case,
which is very very high profile and very well known
and all over the media, But this is happening every
day in our families, with our neighbors, with friends, with acquaintances.
(40:40):
This is happening every single day, and even in a
lot of people's lives. There's a lot of people, men
and women, but tends to be more women than men.
But men are also trapped in these dynamics because the
psychological power that these people, the narcissistics people, the psychopaths
(41:02):
exert over their victims is tremendous. When the abuse starts happening,
with that grooming, with that psychological bond that they're trying
to really get going and to solidify, it's harder to
run away from that because that person made you really
(41:23):
believe that there was nothing else in that universe except
for them. They're the only ones that can skyrock.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
At your career. They have your future in their hands.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
They're the only ones that really want to help you,
or they're the only ones who really understand you. They're
the only ones who really care about you. And that's
again some of the tactics that these people use. If
it's not ditty, if it's somebody else in a relationship,
in a situation in which you're looking at it from
the outside and thinking, how can she or how can he?
(41:54):
Stay in the inside, he has said, nobody else will
love you, Nobody else will love you like I do.
Look at you, You're unlovable. I mean, your father, your
mother didn't even love you. They abandoned you. I am
the one. I'm the one who's here for you. I'm
the one who puts up with you. I am the
one who really like after all the flaws that I
(42:15):
have seen in you, and they obviously throw those flaws
in their face.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
I'm here. So if you leave, what are you gonna do.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
You're gonna be alone, You're gonna be sad, You're gonna
You're not gonna be anyone. I am everything, and I
make you be someone just by being with you. People
for people to understand, abuse doesn't happen in a continuum.
The continuum is it's not like I beat you up
every day twenty four to seven. The abuse happens as
(42:46):
a Oh, there was a glimpse of happiness and joy.
Oh there was a little kiss. Maybe there was a
little exciting sex session. Maybe he was kind one day.
Now he is not kind thirty days. But the one
day that he's kind, you are tricked into, oh what what,
(43:07):
that's what he's really like, that's what he's capable of doing.
I see him or I see her as how he
really is. I know that they can be better, and
I'm going to stick around because they just need more
of me, more of my love.
Speaker 4 (43:24):
Or in this other case, actually it's true.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
If it's going to bomb my career, if it's going
to assassinate my character, if it has control of the industry,
and he's going to make sure that I will never
ever get a contract with anybody else, and all my
dreams now are out the door.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
My faith is in this person's hands.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
That's a form of manipulation.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Absolutely, But yes, no, I get that, and I want
people to also hear that it does not matter. I
love how you point this out. This happens to doctors,
This happens to lawyers, you know, and you know, to
people who are have been educated, to teachers, to scholars,
you know, and It doesn't matter what a person looks like.
(44:12):
You know, just because these women are beautiful does not
mean you know that a beautiful woman, a beautiful person
can't believe or get you know, cohersed or manipulated, because
I am telling you that it starts with wherever they
are or were psychologically when they were met this person,
(44:35):
right when they started this relationship, and it could be anybody,
because we all go through things, and we all have
a past, and I just think that I want us
to all be careful about saying what we would do
if we were in a situation, because if you ain't
never been in a situation, you.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Don't know what you would do.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
And if you were in that situation, you would love
for people to be more empathy and compassionate about the
pain that you've experienced and just hearing your story. So
let me let me let me ask you this, doctor TANGI,
how do societal perceptions of masculinity, dominance, and sexuality contribute
(45:22):
to minimizing or overlooking abusive behavior and powerful men? You
want me to repeat that.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
Oh, well, you don't have to, because that's actually I
think at the core of this question. Recently, I saw
a podcast of somebody who was from a very restrictive religion,
and they were talking about the doctrines and the dogmas
(45:53):
that really shape what masculinity is and what femininity should be.
And although people think that those religious enclaves would have
definitely higher standards for these definitions and would be more restrictive,
this is in all societies.
Speaker 4 (46:14):
All over the world, with a few exceptions.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
So we have all been raised to think and this
has a very deep component in religion which shapes culture.
That men are men, and they cannot control themselves.
Speaker 4 (46:33):
They are who they are, They have urges.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
They're kind of very close to animals that cannot control
their sexual urges, and it is up to women to
keep the guard rails so men don't stray. And that's
really really at the core of this problem. And so
if the woman goes along with it, then it must
(46:56):
be her fault.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
Well must be her fault.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
She was either too pretty, she dressed too nicely or
too provocatively, or she wasn't strong enough, she didn't say
no vigorously enough or loud enough. But she was the
one who had to be in control of the situation.
And so we cut more slack to men than we
(47:19):
do for women, and so women are in the other
side of this being shamed all the time because they
didn't stop it, because they didn't again, they didn't say
no loud enough. You know that there are countries and
these are industrialized countries, not third world countries. Like people
would assume that in which rape laws they state that
(47:46):
if the woman didn't fight hard enough to have physical
evidence of that fight, it.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Is not rape.
Speaker 3 (47:56):
It was not rape because she didn't fight strong enough,
so she doesn't have bruises and cuts and abrasions in
her body, then it couldn't could have not been raped.
So now people also have to understand that people individuals
have different ways of dealing with these very dramatic situations.
(48:19):
You know, the fight, flight or fawn, which is the
other F. I have a Ford F but it's not
for this podcast, but the fight, flight or fawn, and
the fight is obviously I am confronted with this situation
in front of me, and I'm going to kick, scratch, punch,
(48:40):
I'm gonna do whatever it is that is in my
power to not let this happen and come upon me.
The flight obviously everybody understands. It's like I say, I'm.
Speaker 4 (48:52):
Gonna go in the other direction. I'm just gonna run
away as fast as i can.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
But the fawn is I'm going to kind of commiserate
with what's happening. I'm going to conform to protect myself
instead of dying in the fighting.
Speaker 4 (49:06):
Instead of running knowing that I'm not.
Speaker 3 (49:09):
Going to be able to outrun the lion, that would
be me I would fund if I cannot outrun the lion,
I'm not even going to And these are not conscious processes,
by the way, people, these are subconscious. You don't know
what you would do in that situation because your primitive
(49:29):
brain takes over and you just do what you're going
to do, and we don't have experiments to know how
you're going to react. So funing is another protective mechanism
that people will do. And so instead of running away
instead of fighting, I'm just going to kind of play along.
Speaker 4 (49:51):
I am going to maybe try.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
To understand the trauma bond that you were talking about before. Well,
that happens with time obviously, but initially I'm just going
to play along to keep myself safe. I don't have
the strength maybe or I don't have the strategies to
cope with the situation, so my coping mechanism will be
(50:14):
kind of morphing into the situation, so I keep myself safe.
Speaker 4 (50:18):
And so those are the ways in which you.
Speaker 3 (50:23):
React to very very dramatic situations that put you in danger.
Speaker 4 (50:28):
And so if you fawn.
Speaker 3 (50:31):
This is among what is expected from the f's that
I mentioned before, fight flight, fawn.
Speaker 4 (50:38):
And so.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
With women, though if they fight, it's like, oh, okay, well,
maybe you still brought it upon you because you were
walking too late at night, you were not accompanied by somebody,
which is what I was hearing this guy say about
his ex religion. Well, you were not accompanied by a
chaperone or a male, or you didn't keep your distance
(51:03):
from the man, or you probably smiled at the man
too much, or you probably said yes when you could
have said no, or you said yet you said no,
but it really didn't sound like a no. It was
not convincing. It was kind of a no, but it
said yes. Plus, we were told before the education that
we've had on consent. We were told so many times,
(51:27):
so many times.
Speaker 4 (51:28):
You probably remember. I am from that generation as well. Well.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
If a guy is very very pesti and pesky, they
like you and guys were told, what you have to
do is just go after it, and go after and
go after it.
Speaker 4 (51:41):
Because when she's saying no, she actually means yes. We
just have to convince her.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
And so they don't take the no as a full sentence.
They take the no as a challenge. Oh, she really
wants to be pursued. Oh she really wants to be seduced,
she really really wants to be controul And so that
is those are the toxic masculinity realms. But again, women
(52:07):
are always kind of the stoppers of this. Then this
is very unfair because you're judging women for behaviors that
you taught men that were okay and that you encouraged
them to pursue to be that way. And now women
we always have to be the ones who control quote
unquote what happens, and if they go off, it's our
(52:29):
fault because we weren't strong enough, we weren't assertive enough,
we weren't the wrong place at the wrong time, we
didn't say the right words, and so that's what happens,
and that's why we have so much victim shaming instead
of empathy and compassion.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
Yes, yes, yes, yes yes.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
And if other women could just get this and we
bond together and we educate and we teach. Because it
gets to me when women victim shame other women. I mean, yes,
it it bothers me when men do it, but when
women do it, it's like, see yourself in that position, girl,
(53:07):
because they don't even understand. But absolutely, doctor Changi, society
makes the problem always the woman. It's always her because
she didn't do it enough, she didn't speak out enough,
she didn't wear this, she didn't wear What about holding
men accountable for their behavior?
Speaker 2 (53:25):
So that's the thing that gets so frustrating for me.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
You know, one time I was working with someone who
who told me that you know when she went and
you spoke about colts in church when she would go
to church or whatever, and you know how they do
the praise dancing. You know how in some church, you know,
the women do the praise dancing. Well, when she was
(53:49):
I want to say, sixteen years old, sixteen seventeen, she
wasn't an adult yet and she was praise dancing and
she had started praise dancing when she may have been
I don't know, thirteen right, So she had been doing
it for some year. Well, when she got sixteen because
her body started to fill out although she still was
wrapped in chets. She wasn't up there in a bikini
and she wasn't twerking. Do you know that the women
(54:12):
of the church made her she had to stop praise
dancing because they said that she was the problem. She
was gonna entice the men their husbands in the church.
That is so freaking disgusting. So they shamed her for
her body and just for her wanting to do whatever
it was she was doing, just being honest, praise dancing,
(54:35):
praise dancing for Jesus. They had to sit it down.
I just think that that is disgusting. But yep, that
that that you hit it on the nail. Okay, as
we're winding down, okayhead, you want to say something. I
was gonna ask you a question about sexuality in regards
to sexual orientation, because I do know that that is
(54:58):
also a part of your space specialty.
Speaker 2 (55:00):
So I know a lot of people who you know.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Have been watching this trial and learned that Diddy, a
male has a sexual desire to watch, uh these women
have sex with other men and then kind of uh kind.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
Of play in.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
I want to I don't know what I can say
on him, what I can't say.
Speaker 2 (55:26):
But let's just say, I.
Speaker 1 (55:29):
Don't know, TANGI you might know the more appropriate word
to say than what's.
Speaker 2 (55:32):
Actually on my mind. So on their finishings, I'll say.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
That, so you know, when the sex worker would finish
on Cassie and sex worker would finish on Jane Doe,
then allegedly Diddy would like to kind of play in it,
or he would actually watch, you know, the men having
sex with them, and he would you know, refer to
their you know, to their their their their penises, their
(55:58):
you know, and and be really enticed by them watching it.
So I'm saying all that to say, does that mean
that Diddy is gay? Just asking that question.
Speaker 3 (56:11):
Well, I do not know if it's gay, but if
the actually I can say probably that he's not gay.
I could probably say that a categorically. So being homosexual
is being attracted to the person of your own sex,
and so that doesn't seem to be the case with him.
And so I do not know if he had sexual
(56:33):
relations with people from his own sex, in which case
he would be maybe bisexual or maybe by curious, but
not definitely not homosexual. Uh, he is very well known
to be with beautiful women. If he's a clause that
at homosexual, I do not know, but based on behavior
and history, he does not fit the definition of being homosexual.
(56:57):
So I think people can probably put that to rest.
Speaker 4 (57:02):
Now. If he is bisexual, it depends.
Speaker 3 (57:05):
If he is playing with men sexually, then probably he is.
If he is just playing with men occasionally, maybe he's
just by curious, maybe he's like, well, I'll go with
a flow. If the situation presents itself having a it's
called the hot wife king or hot wife fantasy, in
(57:26):
which your wife or your partner sexual partner is so
desirable that you enjoy watching her get other men excited
and her enjoying the presence of other men. That doesn't
make you homosexual at all. This is actually a kink.
(57:47):
And so another thing is people probably would use the
word could, and cockold is a totally different thing. Cockld
is when there's an aspect of humiliation towards the person
who is watching and not participating in having his wife
or sexual partner being serviced sexually by somebody else. So
(58:09):
the coupld has an element of humiliation that the hot
wife fantasy does not. And so in the hot wife
fantasy is just kind of like, oh, so exciting, look
at her, She's so high, she's so cute, she's so sexy, whatever,
that all men want to be with her and really
really enjoy her body and her sexually. And so, but
(58:32):
in Diddy's case, I have to also clarify that for us,
when sex is used for abusive purposes, that's not a
sexuality per se, so that this is pathological.
Speaker 4 (58:50):
And so if this is.
Speaker 3 (58:51):
Being done under the auspices of having control over the victims,
over the praise, this is a pathological behavior. And it
doesn't really matter what your sexuality is. Abuses abuse and
it's separate from sexuality. Just because I have a hot
(59:13):
wife fantasy doesn't mean that I coerse my wife into
having sex with other guys for my own sexual gratification.
So that's when that narcissistic element and that sociopath if
you want to call it, that element comes into play
versus it just being a healthy sexuality. So this is
(59:34):
not a healthy sexuality. This I believe, this is all
against self serving. This is all about what he wanted,
what he liked, and this is about what he wanted
to take for himself. Regardless of what the other people
were thinking or feeling in that moment, evidenced by again,
if it was truly a healthy sexuality, a healthy vidiism.
Speaker 4 (59:55):
Relationship, he would have been.
Speaker 3 (59:56):
Checking in with her and saying, hey, honey, do you
still want to do this?
Speaker 4 (01:00:00):
Is it okay?
Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
So stop it at any time if you don't want
to go through with this, it's okay, we can stop.
Nothing will happen. I will still love you, we can
do it in your terms. Uh, And that was not
happening supposedly. So that is the difference between a pathological
behavior that is criminal and constitutes abuse versus a healthy
(01:00:21):
BDS and relationship and dynamic.
Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
That was excellent, excellent, excellent, as excellent.
Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
That was so good.
Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
That was good because I think to your point you said,
it doesn't matter whether he's gauged straight by saying like that,
ain't even the point here.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
What the point is here.
Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Is is that it is abusive, which which leads to
a path a logic cold behavior, which means that there
is a diagnosis there. And uh, and yeah, it just
it's abusive.
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
It's abusive.
Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
And I believe, I believe I didn't say this, but
she pay anybody should pay for being abusive.
Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Oh my gosh. Okay, so that was excellent.
Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
So I want to end by just asking, hmm, okay,
what does recovery look like for someone who has experienced
prolonged sexual abuse under the guise of a romantic or
(01:01:27):
glamorous relationship? Yeah, what does recovery look like for these victims?
Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Well, recovery definitely is a long road and it's not
a straight line. So I just want to say realistically
that this takes years and years to untangle because first
of all, you have to master yourself right, not only
you have to process everything that happened in your past,
you have to know what the root cause is. And
then you have to work with your own sense of
(01:01:56):
self which again and this in these cases, people are
very skilled at taking your the soul away from you,
taking your sense of autonomy and integrity as a person,
taking your identity away, and you have to reconstruct who
you are, and that takes years and so lots of
(01:02:16):
psychological therapy, so lots of different techniques, trauma informed and
trauma specialists. Specifically, I I'm trauma aware, but I I
and I have worked with trauma before.
Speaker 4 (01:02:37):
And let me tell you. It is a whole.
Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
Different animal when you take a person who's just kind
of navigating life and having struggles versus a person who.
Speaker 4 (01:02:45):
Has deeply rooted trauma.
Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
It is a skill, it is a specialty, and people
who have undergone all of these relationships that are so
toxic and so damaging, they have to look for professionals
who are trauma informed or trauma specialists.
Speaker 4 (01:03:04):
Definitely surround yourself with people who.
Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
Are going to build you up and help you rebuild
and pick up the pieces of yourself. Do not listen
or do not really stay with people who are not
contributing to your well being and to your mental health instability.
As you say, mental health is a lifestyle, and sometimes
you will have to cut off people that you love.
(01:03:30):
Many of these behaviors. Maybe of these patterns start in childhood.
Maybe it was your father, maybe it was your mother,
Maybe it was a grandparent, maybe it was an uncle.
But it was somebody, probably close to you that started
you on this journey. And sometimes you will either have
to keep your distance or cut ties altogether for your
(01:03:51):
mental sanity, and you will have to decide which pain
is greater, the pain of keeping these people in your life.
Knowing that they're so damaging to you every time they
interact with you, or the pain of grieving, they're inexistence
in your life from the point when you cut off
(01:04:12):
that relationship and moving forward, you have to decide which
pain will be greater. And many people decide, well, what's
my mother or was my father? And I love them,
but in order for me to save myself, I cannot
have a relationship with them anymore. And you know what,
if you decide that that's okay. Society also makes us
sometimes continue to keep bonds with people who are damaging
(01:04:35):
to us because they're our DNA and blood. And so
I encourage you to definitely seek your own betterment and
surround yourself with people with tribe, with family that you
choose instead of family that have DNA ties to you,
(01:04:56):
because sometimes those are the ones who are going to
be better for you.
Speaker 4 (01:05:00):
And to know that.
Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
Because somebody did this to you and you are feeling
broken right now, you don't have to remain broken.
Speaker 4 (01:05:09):
You can choose to heal, You.
Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Can choose to be on a different path, and the
future can be better for you. And I would wish
that every victim knows this and they will choose themselves
over the kind of life that somebody stripped them away
from and made a determination that they would have. That
doesn't define you. You can define your own self moving forward.
Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
Absolutely, yes, yes I couldcur so, Doctor TANGI please tell
everyone where they can find you at.
Speaker 4 (01:05:49):
Well, very easy.
Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
If you go to Texas Sexualhealth dot com. Texas sexual
health dot com, you can find me there. You can
be in contact with me via email, you can call,
or you can see obviously if there's anything that we
can help you with.
Speaker 4 (01:06:05):
I love you.
Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
For bringing this forward, for talking about this topic, especially
in our communities. Our communities, our minority communities are particularly
vulnerable to these kinds of behaviors and these kinds of situations.
Speaker 4 (01:06:22):
So thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
For bringing light into a topic that in our communities
is taboo. And by raising our voices talking about it
and creating spaces for conversations about this, we are empowering people,
maybe one at a time, but that incremental value will
(01:06:44):
pay off.
Speaker 4 (01:06:44):
In the future.
Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
So thank you so much, Andrea for doing this and
for continuing to be a voice for all of us.
Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Oh my gosh, thank you Dottor Tanji for your intelligence,
for showing up for your stickituitiveness, for always being available
when I call you and I say that I need you,
Like when I wanted to talk about this, I'm like
God was like, you know who to call, you know
(01:07:13):
who the call. And thank you for being so responsive
and always supported me.
Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
I thank you. I love the brilliance, I love everything.
Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
I love everything about you. But thank you for coming.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for joining me and Okay, family,
So that was another episode of the Mental Health is
a Lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
Podcast and family. Let me just tell y'all, this trial
is not over. And when I tell you, I'm so
into it. I am so into and so I'm about
to after my clients, you know, tonight this is where
I am.
Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Okay, I'm going to find out what happened in the notes,
everything in court, okay, AnyWho, I'm still on the case.
Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
What man believe?
Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
I will see you next week on our next episode.
Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
And don't you ever forget I love you.
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