Nintendo Indie World Reaction & A Psychologist Breaks Down My Leak Video | Nontendo Podcast #148 - Nontendo Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome on in everybody to the Non Tender Podcast. It's
so good to see you all today. I am sack
alone in a room. My name is My name is Wood.
By the way, if you didn't know, I'm sack alone
in a room, but I'm not alone because I have
these wonderful people with me. Hello, you can talk. I

(00:25):
have a crafty type from YouTube Fame of It? Should
I say the one crafty type one? Why is there
a one?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Why is there a one?

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Why is there a one? At the end? Crafty type one?

Speaker 4 (00:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Fun fact. I have type one diabetes.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Okay, all right, I get it is the diabetes crafty
very and I have it. Water is back everybody's favorite.

Speaker 5 (00:55):
Last time I was saying it was Lulso an India direct.

Speaker 4 (00:57):
I know.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
I noticed that as I was making the thumbnail because
I was looking down for thumbnail inspiration, and I saw that.
That's so funny. Guys, if everything looks and sounds good
as always, let me know. I want to have a
fun episode. I'm not gonna lie. I want to talk
about the indie world. I want to talk with my
guests here. But as well as the indie world, there

(01:19):
is there is one more thing, and it even pertains
to Crafty, who was you might recognize this beautiful face
he was in the leak video. How'd you feel about?
What did you feel about that?

Speaker 2 (01:33):
It was a rollercoaster of emotions. I'm not gonna lie.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
You reached out to me, can I can I say
what you said?

Speaker 3 (01:39):
Or no?

Speaker 1 (01:42):
I mean you reached out to me and said you
really enjoyed the video, which I really really appreciated because
it was definitely a mixed bag from the creators. I
want to stress too, that all of the creators in
the video were featured in a way where like they
were wonderful. I called them wonderful. At the end, I said,

(02:03):
we need more content like theirs, and that rumors and
speculation and all that stuff is more exciting and more
interesting than anything else at the end of the day.
And then I do the same stuff most of the time.
So there was never any intention to spread any hate
to any of those creators, which I think some people
took the wrong way as more of like a gotcha
moment when it wasn't really supposed to be at all.
I'm curious how you you took that.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, I could, I mean I could definitely see how
a lot of people took it as like, oh, yeah,
I got you, you know, I caught all of you. Yeah,
but like the way I took it is definitely as
a learning experience for everyone involved, including you.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Probably more mean than anyone, but.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, no, but like really after the reveal and you know,
watching the whole video, it was just kind of multiple
things that required reflection, you know, the spread of you know, misinformation,
how things got a little bit more out of hand,
and yeah, but yeah, I think for me specifically, it

(03:04):
genuinely I didn't see it as any sort of point
out or attack you.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Thank you. I appreciate that. I mean, I made I
made specific sure to say that, Like, the creators are
just it's the same biases that I was trying to
talk about. The creators were experiencing the same biases as anybody,
because we're all the same. It's just you're making the
videos because you're the you're the content creator that has
a channel. You know, Well, thank you. I really appreciate it,
and I look forward to getting to know you and

(03:30):
talking about the direct with you today and then on.
It's just it's just always a pleasure and I really appreciate.
I don't know if I want to say running d
for for me in this case, but you've definitely been
a gem and uh man, I love you so much.

Speaker 6 (03:48):
I'll just hate to defend the indie direct because I
feel like everyone and everyone finishes these directs like oh that.

Speaker 5 (03:54):
Wasn't much, and I finished them like so excited.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, I know what's actually one of the first podcast episodes,
I think episode four of this actual podcast and we're
about to hit one fifty was about the indie directs
and how everyone is way too mean to them and
that you know, yeah, I don't understand why there's always
these insane expectations on an indie direct to be you know,

(04:19):
a direct like a full direct.

Speaker 6 (04:20):
Also, I have beef on the last direct, okay, because
every single for the Partner showcase, right, everyone.

Speaker 5 (04:27):
For years has been like, if there's.

Speaker 6 (04:29):
Ever a direct where there's not a farming zim, it
will be the best direct ever I have. You know,
there was an entire direct without a single farming zim
and people still like went off on it and said
it sucked.

Speaker 5 (04:42):
So farming sims aren't the problem. It's clearly, you.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Know, I agree with you. Was that the partner direct
that had no Yeah, I think that the escape goes
at the word. I think the target for that one
was the Campfire Game, which is, by the way, a
switch to exclusive game. It's only on and switch to,
which I don't really I understand that one. I played it.
Have you guys played the Campfire Game?

Speaker 5 (05:07):
I had so many bugs when I played it.

Speaker 6 (05:09):
If you picked up a log the same time someone
else picks it up, it glitches your like tweezers.

Speaker 5 (05:15):
So you can't pick up any more lugs.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Oh my god, fantastic. Even if you like switch between
like items, yeah, yeah, you can.

Speaker 6 (05:21):
Change tools whatever you want, your your like little tongue.

Speaker 5 (05:24):
Things permanently don't work until you change levels.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Bingle and I played it on stream and we spent
fifteen dollars each, and I gotta be honest, we got
maybe twenty minutes in and we were thinking about other
things to play. And I have no intention of it.
You play the whole game. You pick up a log,
you put it on the fire fire, grow big. That's
the game. That's the whole game.

Speaker 5 (05:43):
It gets harder each level. I played three levels. I
committed well, we got to level twenty.

Speaker 6 (05:49):
The logo though, like if you change like map, then
the lugs get wetter and they get harder to start
the fire with, and that's sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, honestly, it seemed like like a VR chat cell
game where it's just like you know now with people.
I didn't realize there was an actual game to it.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, well, it's more of like a social experiment that
we love those. It's more of like a social experience. Yeah,
you just sit with friends and the cameras are on
one of one of the one of the few games
that use cameras, also bingals in chat. He's not here today.
I gave him the day off because I, well, it
doesn't really matter, but I knew we would be talking
about the league a little bit again today and that man,

(06:29):
that man does not need to be any more involved
than he already was because it was all my fault.
And also I think he's busy. He's studying for something.
I don't want to say what it is in case
it's not public, but that man's trying to learn. So yeah,
I do want to touch on I guess I want
to get the stuff about the leak out of the

(06:50):
way first, and I want to touch on it a
little bit with you crafty, but I also want to
get your opinion on it too. Did you say you
had a PhD? I want it.

Speaker 5 (06:58):
Yeah, we'll PhD in chemistry.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
God, you're so way, You're so smart. What are you
doing on What are you doing streaming?

Speaker 5 (07:05):
This is way more fun?

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah, it is way more fun. Well, I got someone
else with a PhD. I got a psychologist with a
PhD to weigh in on the video. Now, I want
to stress that I've clearly been through a lot of
emotions recently, clearly been stressing. Uh, this isn't about anything

(07:28):
other than when I made the video. I always wanted
a psychologist to look it over. Actually, to begin with,
I was thinking of having one look at it like
in the video, but I didn't know how to reach
out to psychologists. I just didn't really know, like, you know,
the people that have been studying in the field for years,
I'm going to have them look at like a silly
little Gaming League video Like it just didn't really seem

(07:49):
it seemed below anybody. But when the video came out,
I had a lot of comments Nintendo Prime specifically, who
by the way, Nintendo Prime and I are like besties
now specifically, was like, it'd be really interesting to have
a psychologist look at over. So I was like, all right,
let me commit. So a day or two after I
made the video, I started reaching out to psychologists to

(08:10):
see what they thought of the video, and one replied
and they watched my video and they were very interested
with giving a breakdown. So what this is is it's
more of having an someone with an actual PhD in
misinformation and psychology to see how I did. Essentially, it's

(08:31):
not you know, and it's not anything other than that.
It's not some like I know, everyone's like knows that
I'm losing my mind and expecting apologies and everything. I've
decided I'm just gonna move on. This is the last
I did the sit down with him. It was very interesting,
it was very insightful, and he actually gave me a
lot of information and us because I'm going to share
it with you on how we can you know, mitigate

(08:54):
the spread and misinformation and how it actually happens. And
I think if you were interested in the video, it's
a really fantastic far. My intention initially it was like
a forty minute interview, was to work it into a
part two video on my channel, but once I saw
the reaction, I decided it was probably best to keep
it more low key, but I still wanted to share
it with you guys. So and by the way, I

(09:16):
also asked both Iwana and Crafty if they wanted to
be here for this or if they wanted me to
call them after, and they both wanted to be here
for this. And we're going to play the video. It's
fifteen minutes. I've done my best to edit in all
of his concerns and queries and everything about every element
of the video was addressed, from why I did it

(09:38):
and the reasoning and the biases. He reviewed those, the
outcome I had with the leaks and rumors. We talked
about that and I asked him five or six key
questions and it's all pertaining to the video. And I
think it's very interesting. So the psychologist himself to set
it up. His name is Steven Sloman. He has a

(09:59):
bpa HD in cognitive psychology from Stanford University. He's been
a professor of cognitive science at Brown University for over
thirty years, and he now works at King's College in
London near you. We wanna, I don't know how close
that is to you. Actually, he was the editor in
chief of the journal Cognition, one of the leading journals

(10:21):
in the field of cognitive science. He was a co
author of this book right here, which I bought because
it looks very it seems very interesting, The Knowledge Illusion
Why We Never Think Alone, which is a highly influential
book about how people form beliefs, thinking groups, and misunderstand
their own knowledge. And he is an internationally cited expert
in belief formation, reasoning, and decision making, cognitive bias and

(10:43):
misinformation and its spread. So I don't think I could
have got a better person to look over this video.
He knew that it was lighthearted and goofy, but at
the same time he appreciated how much I cared about
the topic, and that's why he wanted to talk to me.
And I'll be honest. He was honest, like, I'm just

(11:04):
a guy, I'm just a YouTuber. I made a video
and I I even made the joke I got a
PhD in Google. You know, I never thought I was like,
I never thought I'm not smart, and I never thought
I was really making something that would be studied throughout
the ages. You know, I just tried to make a
fun video, but in saying that, you know, he took
a look at it seriously and off the rip. When

(11:27):
I start playing this, he automatically tells me two things
I got wrong. But then as we go through, well,
wrong is questionable, I think, But as we go through,
he also likes a lot of what I said and
a lot of the video too. So now that I've
set all that up, we're gonna check it out. Also,
I had linked his books down below for anybody that

(11:48):
wants to check him out. That he was this one
thing he was like, the only thing you have to
do is share my books, and I don't care about
being compensated. So he was awesome. So here we go.
I'm going to play it and yeah, already everyone should
be able to hear early. So were you?

Speaker 4 (12:04):
So am I three home minutes early.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Thanks for being early, Thanks for being here. I really
appreciate it. I guess I'm curious. Did you get a
chance to watch the video or a portion of the video?

Speaker 4 (12:13):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (12:13):
I did, Okay, all right, Well, then my first question,
I suppose would be what did you think of the
video and did anything stand out to you positively or
negatively from a psychological point of view.

Speaker 4 (12:25):
Well, I thought you had great whiteboard skills.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
Okay, yeah, you know, and no, I mean, obviously you're
you've got great editing skills.

Speaker 4 (12:40):
You know how to make a video, and so thank.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
You for saying that.

Speaker 4 (12:43):
That's that, that's a given. I guess.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
In terms of the psychology, I thought that you picked out.

Speaker 4 (12:53):
Some interesting.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
Effects, some interesting hypotheses, a couple of certain or critical comments.
One is that you distinguished information for misinformation in a
way that I didn't really.

Speaker 4 (13:09):
Think made sense. O.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
Right, So specifically, you know, we hear things as human.

Speaker 4 (13:20):
Beings, and whether they're true.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
Or not is not a fact about anything inside our
skulls fact about the world, right, So is our mental
representation of what's going on in the world true or false?
Is really a function of what's actually going on in
the world.

Speaker 4 (13:41):
So I don't think there's any.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
Way to identify whether something is information or misinformation just
by seeing how people react to it. Okay, but we
react exactly the same way because there as far as
we know, they're just information.

Speaker 4 (14:01):
So if we want to find out if.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
It's information or misinformation, they're obviously cues within the information
that it will often give us a hint. And as
you pointed out so thoroughly, the source is critically important, right, Yeah,
and in general for.

Speaker 4 (14:22):
Reasons I hope to go into.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
The source is the best cue we have about what
I think it's true or false.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
And then so yeah, off the rip. He seems he
seemed to think that I he does think that I
misled a little bit by construing misinformation and information. Essentially,
I guess he was trying to say that I was
trying to say that, Actually, I am a little confused.
You've got a PhD. You want to what was he

(14:52):
trying to say that.

Speaker 5 (14:55):
I'm trying to figure that out as well.

Speaker 6 (14:56):
I assume it's it's uh, you don't decide what is
information or misinformation.

Speaker 5 (15:01):
The world decides what is what.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
By yeah, it's true, I mean the reality of what
he's saying is like when when you read something, it
is either true or false and you can't determine that
by looking at it. I don't know if I ever
intended to say that, because then he goes on to say, like,
they're ac cues that could lead you to think that
it's fake, And in my mind, I was thinking I
didn't want to say it, but I was thinking, like

(15:23):
when it says insider knowledge or something like that, and
then you could like go and check the source, which
is which was my point, Like you could the source
didn't say those things, but uh I could.

Speaker 6 (15:37):
The issue is you can never go to a source
source with leaks, you know, then normally you could get
to you, but if you got it from someone else,
you'd never get to that person.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah. No, what he's saying is is definitely true. I honestly,
I gotta be honest. That was I've left it in
because I left in everything he said that was negative
and positive. I just tried to shortn't it. That was
the whole thing he said about that, And I am
still a little confused by what he thinks I was
trying to say. But if anyone did feel I guess

(16:08):
if anyone felt like I was accusing them of looking
at information and just assuming it one way or another
and that wasn't what they should have I don't you know,
I really don't know that one, but I'm gonna keep playing.
That one was just the most confusing thing. The rest
makes a lot of sense to me, And if anyone
down below wants to explain it better in the in
the chat or comments. That was the only one that

(16:30):
confused me a little.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
But yeah, second, my other response was, you know, you
picked out a few things confirmation.

Speaker 4 (16:36):
Bias, but affect bias isn't really a thing. I don't
think that.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
That's very clear. There's no arguing what he meant by
that affect bias isn't the thing.

Speaker 4 (16:47):
But has made it out to be a thing.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
He does say someone made it out to be a thing,
but he doesn't believe it's a thing. So I don't
know if it is a thing and he just doesn't
believe in it. But yeah, he didn't like affect bias,
but he did like the other ones I picked out.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
But there there are much deeper insights into how our
emotional reactions guide our assessments of truth that you know,
I don't think are really captured by the ethic bias.
And then what did you call the authority bias?

Speaker 1 (17:18):
I called it the authority bias. And then there was
the illusory truth effect, where the.

Speaker 4 (17:23):
Truth effect, that's that's a thing.

Speaker 5 (17:25):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
I started to explain it to him and then I realized, oh, no,
you know, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yeah, yeah, like that's that's a fact that you repeat information,
people think it's more likely to be true.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
And you sorry.

Speaker 4 (17:37):
That's been demonstrated in the lab many many.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Times, do you so? Yeah again, I he is an
expert in confirmation bias. He kind of skipped by that one,
and I think it's because I hope it's because he
thought that one was obvious. And then he said, yeah,
authority bias and uh, the illusiony truth effect of definitely
things and definitely played a part. And when he replied
to my he also said, you were pretty close with

(18:03):
the biases, but it's it's a small part of the
picture and you kind of miss the forest through the trees,
is what he said. So he does go on to
explain more of how misinformation actually works and it's not
just biases. That first part still confuses me too, because
he says, I'll lose your truth Freak's definitely a thing,
and the more you see something online, the more likely

(18:24):
you are to believe that it's true. So I don't
know how that plays into like the first part where
he was saying, you can't tell if something is true,
it's all it's confusing. It doesn't matter unless you guys
have thoughts, we'll keep playing.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
I mean, like, definitely, the first part's a little confusing
to me too. I'm a very second part with the
illusion to truth bias, like with the amount of people
that were reporting on it as well. The more that
we talked about it, the more we generalized it. You
even said in your video, we kind of just removed
you away from it as well. Yeah, the more we

(18:59):
all just kind of like it's gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
So yeah, yeah, and I you know, I definitely think
there are things, there's elements to this video that you
can observe and that you can glean from it. And
and that was one we definitely saw the illusory truth
effect in action, and it was actually really cool. The
other ones he seemed more skeptical on, but for that

(19:22):
one of an authority bias, those are the two that
he was really like, you know, you hit the nail
on the head with authority bias, you kept nailing that
home and then illusiing truth effects. So those were cool.
I think if everyone, for example, that was involved in
spreading this rumor of mine use the word rumor instead
of leak, it would have helped mitigate any of the
misinformation spread or confusion that I saw happen.

Speaker 4 (19:43):
Yeah, I think it probably would have.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
I mean, I don't think the mere fact that something
is called the leak means that it's necessarily.

Speaker 4 (19:54):
True, right, I think people yeah all the time.

Speaker 3 (19:59):
But I completely agree that the word rumor implies a
degree of uncertainty. Would should and I think would cause
people to question whether it was true or not.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
But so I appreciate that too, because that was you know,
I did feel like when I got to the end
of my video, I was like, what can I actually
do here? Like, what can I glean we can what
answer can I give? And that was one that I noticed,
and it was nice just to have him say that, like, yeah,
I mean definition would help for sure. So it's a
pretty simple one, but you know it is one also

(20:39):
here he he went on to I didn't get to
ask this question. He just wanted to tell me. So
he went on about how infamous information actually spreads, and
I just found it interesting and I think it's the
whole point of the video, right, And this is kind
of what he meant when he said you missed the
forest through the trees. He was like, you know, the biases, sure,
they play a part, but this is how missip spreads.

Speaker 4 (21:01):
But what I really hope.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
That you and I can talk about is sort of
a bigger picture about what really determines how people assess
the veracity of facts of what they see on the Internet.

Speaker 4 (21:15):
And the story I.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
Would tell is about how we are incredibly limited as
individual human beings and we have very limited knowledge bases,
and so we have to rely on other things, and
mostly what we rely on is our community, right is

(21:40):
the people around us. So I think you are absolutely
right to take very seriously the fact that people treated
you as an authority. Because most of the things we know,
we don't know them directly. The information isn't sitting in
our heads, it's sitting in other people's head, right, So

(22:01):
all of my information about Nintendo is sitting in your head,
but I have access to it right now, right like so,
so the fact that I can outsource questions about Nintendo
to you is really important. It makes me at this
moment an expert in Nintendo, and you can say that
about almost anything, right Like you are right now an

(22:24):
expert on the weather in Providence, because you could ask
me what the weather and Providence is, and.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
I just have to look out the window, and I
can answer the question.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
What is it?

Speaker 4 (22:34):
Sorry, what is it?

Speaker 1 (22:36):
How's the weather?

Speaker 4 (22:37):
It's you know, it's sort of hot and at where
are you?

Speaker 1 (22:45):
By the way, I'm in Pennsylvania. It's also a little
hot and steel.

Speaker 4 (22:48):
Okay. My daughter went to grad school in Pittsburgh.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
By the way, Like I cut out a lot of us,
just like goofing and talking. We've been here a few years,
my wife and I. We haven't got over to Pittsburgh yet.
When near Philly.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
Oh, I see, Yeah, that's the other side of the world, right, Yeah,
So I think the picture I would want to draw
is one in which we rely on other people for
all sorts of information, for distinguishing truth from falsity.

Speaker 4 (23:22):
But it's important to remember, and I think you hinted.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
At this in the video actually that for the most part,
people don't care about truth versus falsity.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah, like, that's not I found it interesting he picked
up on that one, because I didn't really put too
much thought into that when I said it. But I
remember at some point I said something like a people
don't really care if it's true or not. They just
want to get excited about something. And yeah, he picked
up on that.

Speaker 4 (23:45):
Apparently what's driving us most of the time.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
Sometimes we care like if I'm going outside, I want
to know if it's raining, But if I'm deciding whether
to share a message online, I'm as likely to care
if I'm going to tittillate the person or impress the person.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
Right as I am, whether I'm telling them the truth
or not.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
So he used tittilate very specifically, and I laughed at
it because of the word titt ate. And that's, by
the way, the difference between the careers and the lives
that we've led me and this person. I realized. I
was like, oh no, I just laughed at tittillate. He
didn't say anything though this book too, and this is

(24:30):
kind of the narrative that he's telling here this book.
An example that it goes into is something he asks
people's like, do you know how a toilet works? And
a lot of people will say yeah, like they think
they do, and then you ask them to explain it,
and they'll realize as they're trying to go through it,
they actually have no idea how a toilet works. And

(24:50):
that goes for most things in our life. We don't
know how most things work. We rely on a community.
We'll rely on plumbers, we rely on people that you know,
make the things. It's shared knowledge. It's all shared knowledge.
And the point he was making, and this is something
that I've obviously come to realize how deep and strong
this connection is, is that in this scenario, I'm the plumber,

(25:13):
I'm the Nintendo guy. The shared community of knowledge that
people have that watch me, and that authority bias is like,
you know, I don't know how a toilet works. If
a plumber tells me how a toilet works, I'm gonna
believe them. So these people don't know about leaks or
rumors or what's coming. So if I tell them what's coming,
they're gonna believe me. And that was definitely a lesson.

(25:33):
I've learned the unfortunate hard way because I never really
saw myself as like the plumber of YouTube when it
came to Nintendo. I didn't see myself as like an
authority in that way. But that word like authority in
Nintendo has come up a lot through this, and it's humbling.
It sucks that I found out by ruining that for

(25:54):
a lot of people, ruining my authority with a lot
of people, but I definitely discovered it in a big way.
So you guys have any thoughts and all of that.
So far I can keep playing it.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah it all makes sense.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, okay, I'll keep playing. We're halfway. Obviously, the things
that I presented were the things I presented. But what
else can we do to mitigate the spread of misinformation online?
And is it possible, even in this world of gaming
to inoculate people against fake leagues in this case? I
want to pause that really quickly because someone in chat
said plumb is actually a pretty clue into leaks. That

(26:33):
was a fantastic comment. Yeah, all right, So I asked,
how can we stop the spread in misinformation.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
To begin to talk about what we can do about it.
What we can do is the kind of thing that
groups of philosophers or engineers or lawyers all do, which
is to set up a society in which the norm
in which the expectation is that you can provide evidence.

Speaker 4 (27:00):
For what you say.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
Yeah, we have to be willing to question people, not
in a way that turns them off, not in a
way that makes them defensive, but just in a way
that makes it clear that you know you want them
to back up what they've said, and if that became
a social norm, there would be a lot less misinformation

(27:22):
in the world.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yeah, I guess in a loose way. I tried to
make that point in the video by saying I had
no proof. I had no evidence. It was never an
actual league was nothing real. It was a rumor. It
was something that I just I just said. I I'm
shocked that I I didn't have to show any evidence
at all.

Speaker 4 (27:43):
Well, let me tell you why I wasn't shocked. And
there are a couple of ways to think of it.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
I wasn't shocked because, on one hand, people had nothing
else to go by.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
Right, that's the authority bias again, Like.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
You are the authority, and if you say something is
true about Nintendo, like I for one, I'm just gonna
believe it immediately, right, you know, I have nothing else.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
I had to explain to him what a Nintendo Direct
was as well. Before this. He was a little confused.
He mentioned a couple of times, I'm a little confused
about the whole thing, and like what you were trying
to do, just because he didn't really know what a
Nintendo Direct was.

Speaker 4 (28:24):
And I suspect that's true of a lot of people.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
But the other reason I'm not shocked is think about
how much BS there is all the time.

Speaker 4 (28:35):
I mean, think about what comes out of our president's.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Mouth on a daily basis.

Speaker 4 (28:43):
Think about all.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
The conspiracies that believe I mean, it's incredible. Not only
do they believe them, but they control history, right, I mean,
think about religion.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
I guess you're saying people will believe anything, is what
you're saying.

Speaker 4 (28:59):
Well, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
I feel like I tried to say something like that
in my video.

Speaker 4 (29:04):
Now, look, I'm not disagreeing with you that you said.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
I don't think. I don't think you.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Are, but but but you did make other particular claims.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Yeah, it sounds like I was off base with a
lot of it. Some of it, some of it. I'll
take some of it. I appreciate some of it. Do
you think there's any I appreciate? He says some of it,
implying most of it was fine. Anything in there that
can be the lecture inside of him, Yeah, yeah, Yeah,
here's awesome. I hope he I hope he didn't think

(29:34):
I was weird. I asked him out here if there's
anything we can learn from the video or gleamed from
it at all.

Speaker 4 (29:41):
Well, sure, I mean so, to be honest, for.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Me to think about.

Speaker 4 (29:52):
Was how seriously you took it? Yeah, because people lie
all the time. Mm hm, people lie on all the time,
and usually they don't give a shit and yeah up,
and they're proud of it.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yeah, And and often they just do everything they can
to turn that into a revenue generator for themselves, you know,
think uh info Wars for instance.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
Yeah, it's funny because I put Joe Rogan in my video.
I think he was on the same wavelength then, and
I agree.

Speaker 4 (30:28):
I didn't react that way. So for me, that was
a real breath of fresh air, to be honest.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
One reason I'm here today well that I really appreciate
the explanation. Wish it was a breath of fresh air
from more approval. And I gave of why I didn't
I did. It didn't really sit right with them. So yeah,
what could what could I have done differently? Or well,
I guess that's my question is what could I have
done differently?

Speaker 3 (30:52):
So as an experimental psychologist, if I were trying to
do that, what I would have done was first work
really hard to to find a topic that wouldn't have
negative repercussions.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
And you want saying audio and chat. You just got
to refresh the stream. It's that thing again. You should
just fix it if you just refresh the stream right.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
Right, and like you know, so, so plant plant the
rumor that you know, I don't know you wear green
underwear or something, right like it just it doesn't.

Speaker 4 (31:28):
Matter, right, And of course.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
You want to choose something that, even though it doesn't matter,
people will care about. So maybe that you don't wear
underwear right like that people would care about that probably?

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Can I say that I was a little confused by
this too, because he's like, plant something that doesn't matter,
but make sure it's something that people care about. I
was like, it's possible.

Speaker 6 (31:55):
He said, that's something that doesn't have negative repercussions, but
that people care. And I think that's that means that
essentially you've thought ahead of people's feelings when they find
out that information. And I think that is actually like
a huge, a huge point because I think, like, you
never imagined getting this far, which means that you never

(32:18):
imagined how many animal crossing fans would then have to
sit there after the direct knowing that not only was
there no animal crossing, but also that there never was
going to be animal crossing and the game might not
even be in production or you.

Speaker 5 (32:32):
Know, you never know when Nintendo. It could be like
six more years, you know.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, one million percent, I think I do actually go
on here to say that I thought that's what I
was doing, just so he knew that I thought that's
what I was doing. But definitely that's what I should
have done. I don't know what that would have been
in my realm. I've thought more and more about it,
and I think what I should have done. And obviously
I had no idea this was going to go so

(32:57):
crazy with animal crossing. Specifically, I should have just said
there's going to be a direct, and that's it.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
I agree. I think honestly, if you were to said
it was it was just a direct, Yeah, a lot
of people wouldn't have jumped on a million percent.

Speaker 6 (33:13):
It also seem interesting discussions about if you had come
out with it earlier.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yeah, that's that's I've talked about that before. One hundred percent.
I should have What I was waiting for is I
was paranoid and it's so silly, but I was paranoid
that a direct would happen, and they would reveal animal crossing,
and my video would already be out and everyone would
be like, oh, so you did have a leak, So
are you lying about faking it because you don't want

(33:39):
to get in trouble? And that is what I assumed
would happen.

Speaker 5 (33:42):
So that's probably a better way to have been in hindsight.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
Oh a million percent. But also I had no idea
that waiting or that any of this was going to
go the way that it did. But one hundred percent
all of the things you're saying and he's saying are true.
It was my fault, and I'm dumb for thinking that
any of those things go well more naive. I was
just up calling myself dumb but naive thinking that it
would go any other way than it did. I mean,

(34:08):
hindsight's twenty twenty. But also you know or so as obvious.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
So and then you want to do it in such
way that you're comparing it to something else. Right, So
you want to plant a false roomor and also plant
a true room, and make them as similar as possible
so you can watch their trajectories and compare them directly.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
I understand that, Yeah, I will admit that he tried to.
I guess he tried to say I needed a control.
If I wanted to take it away from that, I mean,
I was more honestly, just more focused on fake leaks.
But yeah, I guess it would have been interesting to
see which one did better, a real leak or a
fake leak. I just you know, I hate I hate leaks,

(34:54):
so I didn't want to leak anything. I don't have anything.
Two leak was my biggest issue. But yeah, he's right,
I needed a control. What I thought was what I
thought I was doing. I didn't think was going to
be that serious. I didn't think it was going to
be something that would have such a negative effect on people.
Clearly I was wrong.

Speaker 4 (35:13):
Was it that negative? Like, did it really? Did it
cost anybody anything?

Speaker 1 (35:17):
No? No, no, no it didn't. Temperaments are high online,
as you've probably seen in a lot of communities, and
sometimes people can have extreme reactions to things, especially when
they got their hopes up. I did get a lot
of pushback from it, mostly positive. It was one of
my more well received videos, but at the same time
it was one of my more hated videos. Both things

(35:39):
were true. I'm only telling him that because he's here
with me now and I don't want him to think
that he's getting into something that everyone hated. Just to
clarify at the same time.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
Well, I feel you could develop your explanation about why
you did it in a way that made more sense to.

Speaker 4 (36:01):
People, right.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
I think if if you could end the conversation with
them saying, oh, okay, now I understand why you did it,
then they would feel better about it, and as a result,
you would feel better about it.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
Yeah. I think I've taken enough of your time. If
there's nothing else that's on your mind about this, I
really do appreciate your time, and it means a lot
to me. I know it's a little goofy and silly. Again,
I am just an Intendo YouTuber, but I appreciate you
taking my time, and I hope it is fun for you.
I said, I hope you appreciate taking my time, and
I feel so dumb about that. I hope you knows

(36:39):
what I meant.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
Yeah, it is, And I'm impressed by how seriously you're
taking the issue because it's a really important issue.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
I honestly it is important. And also, once I realized
that people were going to take it very seriously. When
they found out, I wanted to double down and take
it even more seriously. For that reason, I felt like
I owed it to people, or so I bought your book.
Oh all right, I just wanted to show you I
actually found it. I read this and not online last night,

(37:07):
and I found it very interesting and I'm very excited
to read it.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
Well, I think that one would be more interesting to you.
The new one is about how we make decisions.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Oh there's a new one.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
Yes, yes, there's the cost of conviction and then that's
twenty seventeen.

Speaker 4 (37:23):
The cost of conviction is twenty twenty five.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
Okay, let me write that down, all right, I'll check.

Speaker 4 (37:29):
Oh no, that would be great. I mean because if
you could, you know, make.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Those absolutely links for those by way. Yeah, thank you,
thank you so much for your time.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
Pleasure talking to you.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
You too, all right, thank you?

Speaker 4 (37:42):
Bye bye?

Speaker 1 (37:43):
All right. That was that, sorry legend. He was awesome
and uh yeah again. What I really tried to do
there was just hit on everything with the video. I
tried to get his feedback on the video as a whole,
and how I presented the biases and my end result
of the league first rumor and in general. You know,

(38:04):
I got a lot of feedback that was like, what
does this video actually do? Like, you know, it was
all for nothing kind of thing, and so I wanted
to ask him if there was anything we could glean
from it, and he said what he gleamed from it
is that it was refreshing that I was honest about lying.
But he uh, you know, he also said that the
bi like three of the four biases I picked were

(38:25):
on point, and that the rumor in leaked thing is true.
So I think there's this stuff to glean there. And
then on top of that, I wanted to better understand
the spread of misinformation, which he gave us an insight
into that in his eyes, in his research, and then
also how to stop the spread of misinformation, which his
his main thing is really the only thing you can

(38:47):
do is establish a community where when you're giving the information,
you have to show evidence. And obviously we're applying this
to the world of gaming. So in my case, it
would have been like showing a source, which I clearly
didn't do. But if we're to put that into a
more grand scope, and obviously he deals in more grand scopes,
it would be in his example, like the president when

(39:09):
he says anything, having to actually show proof or evidence
of that thing while he's saying it, which obviously never does,
never feels with the need to. But if he did,
it would definitely help stop the spread and misinformation. Could
you imagine if every time he said something he had
to prove it, It'd be awesome. So yeah, I don't know.

(39:29):
You know, there's the thing where a lot of people
are like, so, what did you actually achieve? I guess
for me it was, to be honest, I just wanted
to make a cool, interesting video. But what I think
I actually achieved was I spread awareness and I showed
how leaks spread at the detriment of myself. And maybe
I had a couple answers, maybe I didn't, But ultimately

(39:51):
it's an interesting thought piece. I think, in as interesting
a thought piece as a dumb Nintendo YouTuber can do,
and we'll never do again. So yeah, I appreciated his
insights a lot. I don't know what did you guys think.

Speaker 6 (40:05):
I think it was cool to see the differences between
what a actual scientific approach would be versus how you
went about it, because obviously he's doing it from the
perspective of like you know, making a paper out of
it afterwards, you've got to hit certain points for it
to be valid. So I thought it was interesting when
he was like, when you asked him what he would
change for it to be seen as, you know, being

(40:27):
noteworthy and that they could get something proper from it.

Speaker 5 (40:31):
I thought it was interesting to see the two.

Speaker 6 (40:32):
Differences in what things he would have to consider, because
I think the big difference between like academia in this,
I think it probably comes down to consent. Because in
academia you have people who volunteer. They might not know
exactly what they're going in for for some of these tests,
but at the end of the day, people chose to
be a part of it. Yeah, And I guess that's

(40:53):
probably the big difference between that and this is everyone
was on. Everyone who heard it, whether regardless whether it
was you or not, became unwilling participants.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And that's what a lot of people.
What some people said is that, uh, you know, there
was no consent, which honestly I didn't think about. And
that's just one of the many things that I felt
so guilty about and I apologized for in the video.
I don't I don't know how you would do an
experiment like this while asking for consent. It just seems

(41:24):
to be contradictory of each other, which was why it
never crossed my mind. But also that doesn't make it okay,
So yeah, I've that another thing. I've definitely realized. I've
never done a social experiment before, who have never will again?
But yeah, what about what about you? Crafty? Any thoughts?

Speaker 2 (41:44):
It was definitely refreshing seeing like a take from not
only someone with a PhD, but someone that it was
kind of outside of the Nintendo space. Honestly, I I
his takes. You know, I completely agree with him, except
I would have to disagree with one. His take on
rumors and leaks. How it would change if we titled

(42:06):
everything as a rumor? Okay, I think because it when
it hit kind of mainstream because of animal crossing, it
was less of it was quote unquote leaked out and
more that it was happening. And he kind of touches
upon that too, where it was like, what we want
to believe is what we're gonna put our truth into. Yeah,

(42:29):
but yeah, I mean just seeing him from a third party,
because a conversation online has been all from Nintendo people.
It was definitely refreshing.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Yeah, it's it's interesting because I want to make one
thing clear when he said, was anyone hurt by it?
And I was like, no, what the reason why is
because I was kind of laughing because in his world,
the misinformation that he deals with is detrimental to society.
It's the kind of misinformation that comes out of places

(43:00):
like from the president and when he says it's shaping
history and it's literally can lead to bigotry, you know,
like actual. I won't list too many things, but you
know what I mean, actual hurt. Actual like you know,
So when when I realized what he was thinking that
like what this is an nintender like gaming like it?

(43:23):
Who did it actually hurt? I was like, well, in
perspectively to your research, no one, no one, It's gonna
be okay. People were just disappointed because temperaments are high online.
Like I said, yeah.

Speaker 6 (43:38):
It's not going to be going into the September direct.
You know, hope with an animal crossing.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Hey, you know, if it happens, maybe it'll help me.
Maybe maybe people will forget and move on. I mean,
we're supposed to be getting another direct. My actually, my
good friends. Switch Force suggested that there's going to be
a phase three of direct leaks. He leaked, Uh, he
leaked the India World. That just happened, and now he

(44:05):
leaked three days before. Yeah, and he said that there's
a phase three, which is a Nintendo A phone, Intendo
Direct I believe, So.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
You know, he said, first party presentation.

Speaker 5 (44:15):
Yeah, it's really hope it's not while I'm in games.

Speaker 7 (44:18):
Come like, please, now imagine everything that I said, and
then I have to make the video how I faked
the fake leak?

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yeah, sorry, crafty.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
No, I wanted to ask you, were you like all
of the games that you rumored?

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Were Did you do any research beforehand?

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Research? No, it was more like, to be honest, it
was things I thought were gonna happen pretty soon. I
just like, I just had vibes, you know. I feel
like sometimes I have little predictions that I have in
the Nintendo space, and I was like, what I wanted
to make it seem realistic. Of course, you know, if
the league was going to go viral, I wasn't going

(45:04):
to say something like Mario Galaxy three, because that's that's
what's always in the league. So I played it safe.
I was like, Metaphor, which Atlas games keep coming over?
And we just got Persona three reloaded, so I figured,
you know, Metaphor probably is going to come over. Which
are three? I mean that port was so horrifically bad
and they just worked so hard on porting over Cyberpunk.

(45:25):
I was like, it's a one for one. You're already there,
you got the engine. I feel like a switch to
edition wouldn't go a rye desth Stranding was more just
a hope and dream from me. I really want that
game to come to switch, so I threw it out there. Ironically,
a couple of days after I said that, we found
out that Nintendo Studios helped develop Death Stranding two, so

(45:45):
that was actually I didn't talk about it in my video,
but that didn't help when people started retweeting that and
tagging me. And then of course Animal Crossing, Like the
reason why I picked it is because it's the next
big ip we're waiting for. My wife is a huge
Animal Crossing fan. I have like three hundred hours in it.
I want it, you know. Before this, you know, I'm
friends with like Cozy k Liz, the Last Iwana, like

(46:08):
a bunch of the cozy community. I would have considered
myself part of the community. I'm very aware I'm no
longer welcome, but uh, you know, I thought I was
in there, and I just I wanted it as much
as anybody. I'm as excited as anybody else for that game.
I honestly I can't wait, and even now I can't wait.
So yeah, that's why I picked the things I did,
and picking Animal Crossing it was no more malicious from

(46:30):
me than picking Desk Stranding, Like I didn't think about.
You know, I've had some people say like, well, if
you sure pick some games, but don't pick Animal Crossing.
To me, it's like, why does that change the lie?
Why does that change the reality of what I said?
If I picked this game in this game but not
this game. It's just because I didn't see the community
getting that that hurt and affected by it, which is

(46:51):
why I apologized and I said sorry on behalf of
the entire spread and everything that happened, you know, because
that was a huge blunder and I would never have
put it in there. If I'm ranting, what was your point?

Speaker 2 (47:06):
Oh no, I was gonna say it. For me, it
was like the believability of just the overall rumor, because
I don't know if you knew this before, but there
was already rumors beforehand and animal crossing in twenty twenty six.
Well yeah, so then like whenever, when I made my video,

(47:28):
I compiled yours along with two other people that you
know said similar stuff in twenty twenty four.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
So no, that was no other like looking at what
other people have said. I mean, I've heard a lot
from even Kim. She's always coming to me and telling
me that, like she's like she said it on the podcast.
She said, I've heard that it's going to be in
a city or something. She says, it's going to be
like a big city game.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
That's that's the big rumor.

Speaker 5 (47:55):
She keeps calling everyone wanting it to be true.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
That's the thing. Like she keeps calling it a rumor,
and I keep asking her, like where'd you hear it?
Because it's not a thing, Like I don't think it's
a thing. I don't think any official places got that information.
So there was already so many rumors circulating out there
about it, and like, yeah, I don't know, I just
thought I was I thought I was adding to them,

(48:18):
But you know, do you think if if the if
the person that made the city rumor came came along
and was like I lied about that, what would happen.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
It's interesting because the I don't know if I ever
should say his name or at all, but yeah, he's
just been dead silent.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Well yeah, I know what it's like, probably freaking out.
Well we can no, you go, you go if you
have more to say, Oh.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
No, I think, like I to add on to that,
I think generally, because it was animal crossing, it went
into this whole other general sphere of people, if that
makes sense, because if it was something like if you said, oh,
the next legend of Zelda, I feel like it wouldn't
have gotten that much attention to the general audience. Okay,

(49:09):
because like animal crossing, what didn't it sell like sixty
eight million?

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Yeah for sure?

Speaker 2 (49:15):
Yeah. And then I mean, yeah, and there's more general
gamers than her cozy gamers.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
And oh that was definitely something I came to realize
because that was part of the spread. And I can't
tell you how I didn't think of this stuff, but yeah,
the animal crossing community is obviously very casual and a
lot of them aren't you know it here to the
ground and even like Kim, for example, my own wife

(49:41):
thinks that it's going to be a city game based
on rumors that she heard online. So when I put
something out there about twenty twenty six, it got to
the same people as Kim, you know, it got to
it got to casual people on TikTok, and it got
to a very large community that is very willing to u.
I don't know what the word is, but like with Kim,

(50:02):
very willing to believe if it makes her excited or
she likes the sound of it. So yeah, and I
definitely didn't think about that at all. I just didn't.
It didn't cross my mind. I didn't. I don't even
know how I would have foresaw that, But that was
definitely what happened and why I felt so bad because
they are just so casual and so many people now

(50:23):
I've heard about this leak through a guy they've never
heard before, and now they just know that it was
a lie, and it's like that was such a big
blunder from me too. And I talked about this, but
they don't not that the video is supposed to fix anything,
but they don't even get a video out of it.
They don't get like a you know, they're not in
the community, and they get a beat them ups video
that they can watch and it all makes sense and

(50:44):
maybe they find it interesting. They get quite literally nothing,
which was the whole The biggest blunder in the whole
thing is how viral it went online in general and Twitter,
with hundreds of thousands of millions of people seeing the leak,
and only seventy thousand people saw my actual episode and
then only one hundred and fifty thousand have seen the video.
So yes, like ninety percent of people online, if not

(51:07):
more ninety nine even know me as the guy that lied,
and that'll always be the case there, you know. And
if they hear like it was a social experiment, they're
going to be like, f off, like I don't care,
Like what do you mean? Like he's just lying. He's
just saying that because he got caught kind of thing.
They think I got caught too. It's just like, you know,

(51:28):
and that's just the blunder. My biggest blunder in all
of it is hurting people, upsetting people, and doing it
in the first place, which you know, psychologist Stephen Slowman
saw that I was regretful, so hopefully hopefully everyone else
can to. But that's that's really now that that's out there,
and I really I felt like I owed it to

(51:49):
Stephen to play that since we had that sit down
and he did it out the goodness of his heart.
Other than sharing the book, I want to stress that
I'm done, Like I don't there there's not much else
to say said what I've said, and I'm never this
today was not supposed to convince anyone any other way,
and there is nothing that I can say to convince
anyone any other way. I'm very proud of the video.

(52:10):
I think the video has merit, but I shouldn't have
done it the way that I did it, and I
ultimately messed up, and I am sorry. But there's nothing
that I can do. There's nothing I can do. I've
done what I've done, so all I can do is
to move forward and be the best I can be
and really understand and appreciate the authority that I have
in this space and hopefully for a lot of people,

(52:31):
I keep that authority and we can move forward hopefully
as things were, and that's it. I never, honestly, I
never want to talk about it again, unless unless you
guys have anything to say.

Speaker 5 (52:45):
No, I think I've covered everything.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
Yeah, I think that's pretty much it. I wanted to
quickly clarify I wasn't separating cozy gamers from normal gamers.
I was trying to find the word casual.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Yeah, yeah, no, I know exactly what you You gotta
be careful what you say though. Yeah, I know exactly.

Speaker 5 (53:06):
What I've proven now, Oh exactly.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
Yeah, you guys are rambunctious. I'll give you that passionate.

Speaker 5 (53:15):
Now, Nintendo knows that the market exactly have anything to
come out of that.

Speaker 6 (53:20):
They know they've seen that and got Okay, the people
want it.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Look, here's the thing. It's it's sold fifty million. It's
common like we're getting another animal crossing like it is
a I didn't cancel it, like you know, I didn't
announce it and then cancel it. It is coming.

Speaker 5 (53:35):
You did not change their plans.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
No, that whatever is going to happen is going to
happen the way it was going to happen, And I
think it'll be next year. Ben from Animal cross from
a Crossing Channel seems to think no later than twenty
twenty seven. And what I've learned from being in a
in a community of people and gleaming knowledge from people
that know better than me. He is my professor in

(53:57):
animal crossing. He knows more than I do. So if
he's saying by twenty twenty seven, that's what I'm choosing
to believe and to listen to because he is my
animal crossing plumber, and that's that's what I that's what
I believe now. And if it doesn't happen. No, that
was a joke. That's a joke. Take it back. Stop
all right, what do you do You want to look

(54:17):
at the Indie world or what? Yeah, alright, let's do it.
Let's get it.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Welco up at seventy m I come mid day.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
I was awake because a baby at like six or seven,
and I watched this with Kim on my phone when
we ate breakfast.

Speaker 6 (54:37):
I think that's the best way to do these directs.
If you don't like wake yourself up for them, then
you're not going in already going I got up for this,
it betterd be good, exactly.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Yeah. I just honestly, I haven't covered the last couple
Indie Worlds either, just because the reaction video is on
my channel in the streams usually just don't do very
well and they're just very short.

Speaker 5 (54:57):
But fifteen minutes was very short.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Yeah, that's why I have the podcast, and that's why
we're all here now, all right, I'm going to keep
the sound off, but here we go with the indie world.

Speaker 5 (55:07):
Ironically, these are my favorite.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Oh I love them. I absolutely have.

Speaker 5 (55:12):
The most games for me are normally from these people.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Are way too harsh to indies. I we said this already,
but they're way too mean to indies. I don't know
what they're actually expecting here, but I think there was
more fun looking things in here than the partner direct.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
I think indies are like the creativity of oh yeah
the gaming now.

Speaker 6 (55:29):
Yeah, it was massively carry the Switch, and I feel
like people forgot about that.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
Yeah, there was Like there's a there's a statistic that
I always like to bring up and I've said this
probably fifty times in videos, but steamwell dig two on
the Switch to sold seven times more on Switch on Switch,
I'm sorry, on Switch than Steam, Like throughout the Switches lifespan,
like it was out selling Steam on indie games, which

(55:55):
is just like, honestly.

Speaker 5 (55:57):
Cozy games will always go if they go into a
content so they will try Switch first.

Speaker 6 (56:01):
Yeah, because it's where it's where most people are.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
I would be curious to see how many copies of
Stardeo Valley sold on Switch or as opposed to Steam,
because Steam it's like the best selling Steam game of
all time.

Speaker 5 (56:15):
It's the highest rated now, isn't it?

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Yeah, which I think is because it's best selling. Maybe
I'm mixed it overtook Port two. Maybe it's just highest rated,
but I would like to know the breakdown.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
Isn't Started Valley like the top selling like digital only
game on the E shop.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
I would believe it. Every time you go to best sellers,
Starduo Valley is always there in like that top ten. Anyway,
Mina is first, and also Mina tweeted at Bob earlier
today that it's going to be one hundred and twenty frames,
which is really cool. Yeah. Really, it's going to be
the second confirmed one hundred and twenty frame game other
than Welcome to It, and Mina is of course. We

(56:53):
actually had Celia from Yacht Club Games on the podcast
a few weeks back. This is their game, Mina, and
it's like, I forget what she said. Castlevania meets Elden
meets dock Cells meets Zelda Originals. Yeah, really cool looking.
So yeah. I started with mina.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Honestly really good opener.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
I think, oh yeah, fantastic game.

Speaker 4 (57:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
One then went into Well Dweller, which looks like a
metroid vania with pretty cute art where you're like a bird.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (57:25):
I love the art style.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
Yeah, I love the little little mouse rack guy. He's
very cute, very cute. Oh and then this like crazy thing.
I think I skipped it, know what I do?

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Like these next two games are kind of like pseudo horror.

Speaker 6 (57:41):
Esque Cozy Horror is on the rise, and I'm so
here for it.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
I was so surprised.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
I was like, that thing's hideous in the best way.
That's Well Dweller. I was a little disappointed with how
many things with twenty twenty six, specifically uh Content Warning,
which which it's a really cool game I played on
Steam like six months ago, and I was like, Oh,
it's on Switch and I we're gonna get that. But
I figured it'd be like a later today, but it

(58:09):
was twenty twenty six.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
I think it's like a switch to Dead Kit situation,
because I'm pretty sure they're utilizing the mouse functionality for
the Switch too.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
Oh that would make because it's.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
The only game I believe that's coming out for the
Switch too, that was announcing this presentation.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
Oh really just switch to.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
Am I it switched one and switch to I believe.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
That's the only one. I remember them saying it.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
Now you mention it, Yeah, I think there wasn't any
other game, which I was cut of shocked.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
We I said this after the partner direct But uh,
I feel like, to Nintendo's detriment, they didn't send out
dev kits to most developers. They were very restrictive on it.
They only sent it out to some like really big
publishing partners. And I think you're seeing that here with
like content warning, which they probably got a switch to

(58:57):
on launch, and now they're trying to getting their game
on the system rather than getting it.

Speaker 6 (59:03):
See, it got leaked anyway, So they did all of
that to try and stop.

Speaker 5 (59:07):
Leaks for the Switch to still get lead.

Speaker 6 (59:10):
So now they've taken the hit both ways, like unsuccessfully.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Not to read not to revisitible. I just said, I'm
putting the pin in. But it was those leaks that
inspired the video that I did, because I it ruined
the Switch to is like such a big, like monumental
moment in my life because one, I'm just so excited
for it, and too it became part of my career,
and the whole thing got ruined by leaks and shell leaks,
and I had this idea of, like, I've made a

(59:36):
video about e Shop and how much it sucks, and
then Nintendo kind of fixed it, made a video about
game key cards. They suck. By the way. Nintendo put
out a survey to America. They did it to Japan,
and then they just did one to America a few
days ago, to a survey to see how people feel
about game key cards, and they closed it in like
an hour because I think people were just so I

(59:57):
didn't even get to vote in it. It was so
I'm sure so vicious.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Someone dropped into my discord, and I think my whole
community did it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
But I am I'm one hundred percent sure it did
not go how they expected in the best the best
way for us.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
They got like ninety on one of the surveys and
they're like, okay, we got the information. Yeah right, but yeah,
someone said in chat, actually that Mina is a switch
edition as well, so.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
There's too sick well yeah, one twenty frames.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
One twenty yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Yeah, but yeah, seeing like those videos in the community
do well and having like Nintendo be receptive. Not that
I think my video has caused anything. I was like,
what can we do next? How about gaming leaks? But
how can I rant about gaming leaks? What if I
plant one? That was my thought process? All right, So
then we have Oh, this is the op from interesting

(01:00:51):
was never something never went?

Speaker 5 (01:00:54):
One of the co creators of Celeste.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
Yeah, it was the artist from Celeste. Yeah, it looks awesome. Horror,
Cozy Horror? Is this the second Cozy Horror?

Speaker 5 (01:01:05):
Yeah? Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:01:06):
We've got Grave Seasons as a game coming, which is
a farming sim where there's a murderer loose as well,
which I'm so excited for.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
I like that this one's kind of not gray scale,
but I guess grayscale.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Yeah almost, like it kind of.

Speaker 5 (01:01:20):
Gives Eastwood vibes as well.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Yeah, God, I love Eastwood.

Speaker 5 (01:01:24):
Yeah so good.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
I want to play that. I never played the add
on DLC.

Speaker 5 (01:01:29):
It's good. I like it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
I need to play that. This looked like this. This
is a bigger, more visually impressive.

Speaker 5 (01:01:37):
I can't believe this is switch and not switched to.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
That I start the same thing as well.

Speaker 6 (01:01:41):
I think it's such a miss, Like I would love
the like bumping graphics for a switch to version to
look gorgeous for this.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
Yeah, that might just be a deficit thing. Again, hopefully
they do it. Hopefully they hopefully won it just works
better by default because some games do.

Speaker 5 (01:01:56):
This is made by the people who made Firewatch. So
I'm hoping it's going to be incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Way more interesting to me because fat was awesome, It's going.

Speaker 5 (01:02:05):
To be a lot more to it.

Speaker 6 (01:02:06):
I hope they still dive into, like the narrative side
of things, because I think Firewatch is one of the
best narrative games.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
This looks so different to Firewatch.

Speaker 5 (01:02:15):
It does, it does, but I look at that as
a story. I'm gonna be I'm gonna be.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Told no, I want to play Firewatch again. It's been
a while. My desktop wallpaper was Firewatch for like I
want to say, three years. It was this really cool
it doesn't matter, but it changed with the time of day,
like the real time of day. So like i'd have
like the Firewatch like forest and it would get like
dusk when it when dusk was sick. Sorry, I don't

(01:02:41):
know why people care about that.

Speaker 5 (01:02:46):
This is so good?

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
Is this taking the shadow drop low key? My highlight sound?

Speaker 5 (01:02:52):
I've played.

Speaker 6 (01:02:52):
I've played a bunch of it already because it, yeah,
came out straight after.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Such a shame that this didn't come out on the
switch to the mouse functionality.

Speaker 6 (01:03:00):
You like, it's touch screen though, so I don't think
we've lost too much.

Speaker 5 (01:03:03):
Most people play it and handheld.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
I'm so glad you for this. You both love these
games in this direct. This is awesome.

Speaker 5 (01:03:12):
It's just such a smart puzzle game.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
I don't really get it, so it's I don't really
know how to describe it, to be honest, but yeah,
it's very.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Do you just see whether you try and find out
where they go?

Speaker 6 (01:03:24):
Yes, they have different requests underneath, like when you're placing them,
and then your job is to try and place everyone
so they're happy, and it gets increasingly more difficult with
more requests.

Speaker 5 (01:03:34):
And that sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
How much is that.

Speaker 5 (01:03:38):
Nine pounds?

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
So probably what ten dollars?

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
Oh, that's easy.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
Yeah, it was an easy pickup Little.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
Kitty Big City. This game was already out, so what
is this Okay?

Speaker 6 (01:03:51):
Yeah, a new area and the ability to customize your
own cat find Oh that's awesome.

Speaker 5 (01:03:56):
Actually, you can make it look like your own cat. Now,
this is the first time i've the game, but it's
really good. It's kind of like untitled Goose game Vibe.
You're a cat.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Stray but untitled a child.

Speaker 6 (01:04:13):
Yeah, straight straight, so chaotic and your cat gets hurt.

Speaker 5 (01:04:18):
Your cat doesn't get hurt in this.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
No, okay, I like that one. It looks like the
Simba or like Mafuss. Yeah. I played this on Switch one.
It was very chunky, so hopefully there's a switch to.
I don't know if there's a switch to.

Speaker 5 (01:04:30):
It wasn't a good It wasn't the best port.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
No, so hopefully it's better. Free update available hopefully, yeah,
part of the update hopefully. Then content warning. If you
haven't played this, it is honestly so much fun. If
you guys played it, I have, so they kind of
they kind of tell you, but yeah, you go. You
load into it like a game with four friends. You
take cameras with you and you film everything, and obviously

(01:04:54):
there's monsters everywhere and creatures everywhere, and you can do
it selfie style or you can do it like you know,
like normal. Feel Then if you do survive and you
make it back, you watch your footage and it's like
a vlog.

Speaker 5 (01:05:07):
It just.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
It's so funny and there's like a fake chat, but
also you get to see your friends point of view
of what happened, and you just try and film things
and make it funny, and it's so inherently funny on
its own. It's so good.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
It's a very fun game loop because your goal is
to get views, and the way to get views is
going into like dangerous situations.

Speaker 4 (01:05:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
So yeah, for me, I think this gives me hope.
Have you tried Peak yet That Peak is so good? Yeah? Well,
similar people agro Crab and Landfall. So I'm hoping that
gets parted to switch to.

Speaker 5 (01:05:41):
I think that'd be great much chat on Switch too
is pretty cool though.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
They need to be a little quicker though, because like
Peak is hot now, Content Warning isn't that hot anymore
and it's coming out next year. They need to be
a little I don't know how to do it, but
they got to be a little bit more snappy.

Speaker 6 (01:05:57):
I think unless it comes with alongside deals see or
something so that it kind of reinvigors I can imagine
anyone streaming this on Twitch and going, hey, I'm streaming
on my switch to you know, because.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
It's so.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
Hear me out game chat. But the circle web is
the face.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
I thought of that. I thought of that, Yes, because
the game chat is already a circle and their faces
are a circle and you're filming everything. Yeah, they absolutely.
I thought that they absolutely need to do faces on
the circles there of your friends. Why wouldn't they.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Yeah, I'd be surprised if they don't, because they have
it's a switch to releasing, and.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Think about like when you're watching it back and like
you're doing selfie style and then like you scream, it's
going to be recorded. They have to. If they don't
do that, that's the biggest blunder. That's a that's a
bigger blunder than what I did. Can we agree? I
could agree, No, don't do that. You get self in trouble.

Speaker 5 (01:07:01):
This one?

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
Yeah, this one, yeah, it is. It interests me because
I got addicted to both Vampire Survivors and Loop Heiro
when they came out and he said this game is
a mix of those and a game like Holdown, which
I've never heard of before.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
But on one thing, I wanted to say, with this game,
it's coming out on the Switch one and switch to
different release dates.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Right, Oh really, that doesn't make it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
Yeah, like a situation, I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:07:30):
This was one I was like, didn't sound like my
sort of thing, and then I saw it and I
was like, hold on, this looks so satisfying exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
Let me tell you there is a weird genre of
game like Vampire Survivors and like Loopiro that if you
go and look up gameplay of it right now, you
won't understand why people like it like it just it
doesn't look good. The second you play it, you won't
stop for literally hours, and you'll be thinking about it
at night, like it's yeah, I'm definitely gonna try this.

(01:08:00):
I agree with you. I look at this gameplay and
I'm like, I don't know, it doesn't look like the
games I like, but I know if I start playing it,
it's going to be weirdly, just like itching, that certain
part of the brain looks like a bullet.

Speaker 5 (01:08:13):
Depends on the sound effects are as well. If they
do great things for my brain.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
I think I think it'll be great.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
Then there's Ultimate Sheep Raccoon, which is the sequel to
Ultimate Chicken Horse.

Speaker 6 (01:08:27):
I never played Ultimate Chicken Horse, but people in my
chat were saying it's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
Was this a game that was enough? Like this isn't
the first version of the game.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
Now, there was a game called Ultimate Chicken Horse, and
this one's Ultimate Sheep Raccoon. And it looks like they've
added eight players. I'm sure it was four before and
cross play, and I played it. I played I think
I reviewed it in an e Shop video a very
long time ago, and yeah, I mean you're looking at
it like that's the game. It is fun. It's like
just dumb, stupid fun, but it's fun.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
A few people in my chat were like really excited
for it, and I was a little surprised.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Yeah, it's another one of those that, like in a
different way that it kind of looks like, oh really
like it kind of it reminds me, God, I don't
know why I'm going off on these weird tangents. There
is a game I used to play in elementary school
when I was like nine, where you would like take
little clip art. It was like it was a it
was a software game that you take little like pictures
and clip arts of like rope or like candles, and

(01:09:23):
you could like string things together and put the candle
under it and then it would burn through the rope
and snap and then like a pulley lever will go down.
Then it was like a I don't don't. I don't
think it was called kids Picks or something. I don't
know that this has always reminded me of that in
style and execution. It's so weirdly nostalgic for me. Also
a little bit like Line Rider.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
It reminded me a lot of angry Birds for some reason.
But I probably there's probably no correlation.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
I don't see it, but I you know, I had
a weird one too, so I went hold it against you.
I the first thing I said to Kim when these
three popped up on the screen was I love her hair.
I love that they can just do that just on
one side and then lung on the other. It's so cool.

Speaker 5 (01:10:06):
This one seems so interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
Yeah, oh yeah, it's like an underwater shooter fighting type
game Zora simulator.

Speaker 5 (01:10:19):
Yeah, that's what I was thinking about. I saw it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
It's so weird that like if this game was in
the sky, I would probably think it's really cool. But
I've always just hated underwater stuff, like underwater games, and like,
I don't know, I think it's just Zeuder has ruined
it for me.

Speaker 6 (01:10:33):
Yeah, I was gonna say underwater temples.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
No, even like Endless Ocean, like I tried to get
into it, but.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
I think, like the sky seems so freeing and then
like underwater just seems so constricted, even though they're basically
the same move.

Speaker 6 (01:10:48):
Basically, Yeah, I do you think sky is always prettier
than under the water though, because it's always so dark underwater.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
It's also the last game technically, because they did a
sizzle Real and then just ended.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Yeah, I was a little surprised.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
Yeah, there was no up until this point.

Speaker 5 (01:11:03):
I was like, it's a good direct for me. The
reels told me.

Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
The Real has some cool stuff in it. It just
would have been nice to end. And I don't even
want to say Silk Song because like, and I hate
to pick something because it's so much pressure on like
a game upon an indie publisher to like appear. But
like imagine if it ended with Haunting Chocolate ere like
it just it just would have No one would have complained.
This is all I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (01:11:30):
Instantly just leave concern date, leave started you alone for
a bit, Go go get the Haunted Chocolate tear going.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
Okay, I would have made a YouTube video about the
indie world if Haunted Chocolate was there.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
I think Haunted Chocolate would have overshadowed anything. But I said, like,
there was like three games I think could have been
the final, A Bolato Update. I feel like that would
have been cool that or a Witchbrook and see Oh
my god, how have.

Speaker 5 (01:11:56):
We not got witch Brook Day?

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
I was so surprised on one hand when you say
like it would have overshadowed, like I do see that,
But also in my mind it's like it brings attention
to the indie world, and then if it's more people
watching and like seeing the other indie games, I think
that's like a net positive.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
Yeah, actually I did. I recently did a video where
it was kind of debating that topic. Is like, what's
the point of these indie showcases if you're not gonna
have big if you're saving the big reveals for the main.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
General Yeah, uh correct. Yeah. It also and we've asked
this question on the podcast before, but at what point
does and it does an indie become what they've kind
of coined a triple LI, which is like just one
step below, if not pretty much there at like just
a big budget like game as far as like name

(01:12:45):
and status. So I don't think people.

Speaker 5 (01:12:47):
Wondering if Professor Leyton would show up.

Speaker 6 (01:12:49):
But then I was like, I don't know if that
counts as indie or partner.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
That would be partner as well, or even just in
Nintendo Direct, like a normal direct. But I think Silk Song,
for example, and probably even Haunted Chocolate Deer have just
hit this extra level of like in between indy and
like big budget where they would probably just be at
a partner or even a full direct, I could honestly
see it.

Speaker 5 (01:13:12):
Yeah, but Haunted both of them.

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
Yeah, Yeah, I think like the clear definition of indy
is independently published, but I don't think half of these
games are. But that's fine. I think it's like more
of a vibe than an actual definition.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
Yeah, the term indie has definitely become twisted and just
its meaning just means this genre of game, and you
know what, you know what it means. So this is
is this the other like Cozy Horror, this Winter Borrow?

Speaker 6 (01:13:40):
Yeah, this one's more like cozy with survivalist twings to it,
because obviously you're a little mouse and the outside isn't
all that safe.

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
There's so many cozy games there is this one.

Speaker 5 (01:13:51):
Dust is another one. Just you just clean.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
Items, your content eating well here huh.

Speaker 5 (01:13:59):
Yeah, Tiny Bookshop.

Speaker 6 (01:14:00):
We did not know this was coming to the Nintendo Switch.
This was their first announcement that not only it was
coming to the Switch, but it was coming out today.
One of the most highly anticipated cozy games.

Speaker 5 (01:14:12):
I've been talking about it for so long and we're.

Speaker 6 (01:14:14):
Like, I was willing to beg for it when I
saw the dev games calm, like, I was gonna get
on my hands and knees and be like give.

Speaker 5 (01:14:19):
It to us on the Switch.

Speaker 6 (01:14:21):
And it not only did it come, it's flawless, it's
really good.

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
I can see what you mean by this being just
the event fee the direct for you, you know, the presentation.

Speaker 6 (01:14:31):
Yeah, because it was like, okay, we got is this
seat taken, the cozy horror game, one other cozy game,
and then it was just cozy, cozy, Cozy to end
us off.

Speaker 5 (01:14:40):
But I can't recommend it enough.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
Good Caves of Quad. I haven't heard of it. It looks
very old school. I used to play games like that
on like an MS doss or something.

Speaker 6 (01:14:48):
Yeah, it looks like Strangers, Yes, the sequel to Strange
Horta Culture if you've played that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
Nope.

Speaker 5 (01:14:56):
So a lot of people were excited for this one,
and then this I've never heard of before. This is
my first time.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
Coming up for Switch too as well.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
Yeah, yeah, I think I have had an opus. I
don't know why, though.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
The moment I saw this something like that made an impression.
I'm surprised, Like I'm surprised almost all these games, and
this is a real didn't get you know, thirty seconds
like the other games.

Speaker 8 (01:15:17):
And then it's kind of quite big as well, Like yeah,
especially when like first time, like visually, this one is
more like it's not Sprite work right, It's like different,
It's like it's it's I think the variety of showing
more of this one might have been good, It says
gameplay footage of a Switch to version actually at the
bottom there.

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
Yeah, immediately I was like, oh, what's this because I
don't know something about the shading, the lighting. It looks
a lot different than the games that we've some Then
straight to.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
Go go right, it's great.

Speaker 6 (01:15:45):
We knew this was coming to the Switch because it's
part of the Kickstarter, but it is good to see it.

Speaker 5 (01:15:50):
Out in the world. So many people were excited for
this one.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
Yeah yeah, yeah, made by this blunky team UFO fifty.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
It's fifty games, right, it's fifty different games in one.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
From my understanding is basically they recreated yeah, fifty games,
and it's kind of like they're launching a console. So
as like, yeah, it's on library of games.

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
It's uh. I watched my friend Bob play some of them.
I think like every game is like fun is the
whole thing? Like people actually like every game in there,
like it's it's like a packed, packed full with good games.
Yeah yeah, and then that's it. That was the scissoryil
and they ended Honestly, they should have just played meaner
at the end.

Speaker 5 (01:16:30):
Why wasn't the camp Fare game in this?

Speaker 1 (01:16:33):
I think the switching the pot one, Yeah, they might
have needed to switch to games and then the cameras.
The cameras probably did it, but yeah, you're I think
it should have been in here. The Campfire one could
have ended this, honestly, just because it uses the cameras. Yeah,
or if they were to keep it the way it was,
maybe just put meaner at the end and have Mina
be a one more thing or just not you don't

(01:16:53):
have to say one more thing, but just end end
with something cool and with something.

Speaker 5 (01:16:57):
Weird, to end with the real exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
Yeah, especially because they've built up this expectation that there's
a real and then there's one more thing.

Speaker 5 (01:17:06):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
So I mean, do you do you think we're going
to get more indie game or I guess, like the
bigger indie games shut off in like a general director. Okay,
like Witchbrook, they're.

Speaker 6 (01:17:17):
Leaving so much like the rest of the year is
like question marks, question like we know what's coming, we
just don't know when.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if like every game,
every especially every indie is going to make it into
a presentation of some kind. But if if like witch
Brook is a bit I don't know much about Witchbrook,
but if you think it's a big one people are
really anticipating, then that's the last the last thing we have.
Is there a release date for it.

Speaker 5 (01:17:40):
We waited eleven years for this which got announced.

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
Actually, but I don't know what it is.

Speaker 6 (01:17:48):
It's like a pixel witch life him where you go
to school and you live in a witchy little town.

Speaker 1 (01:17:55):
It's almost been indirects before. I've seen this before.

Speaker 5 (01:17:58):
Yes, it was in the main direct my Nintendo Switch
to Direct. It's going to be in a big Switch direct.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
Yeah, that's why I was so surprised it wasn't here
to begin with. Was because it was shown off before.
And then chat actually pointed out Haities two as well,
like that's technically an indie.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
And well the Witchbrook I'm seeing. But by Google it
says release in Win to twenty twenty five. Honestly, that
could still be January February, so there is probably two
more directs by then minimum, so they could be waiting
on that one. I mean that's even assuming that it's
it's a long schedule, but yeah, I mean you could

(01:18:34):
definitely see it at the next Direct show. And then
what was the other one has to.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
Its final patch? I was about to leave early excess,
so it's like, I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
Elusive. It doesn't say the date though, Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
Yeah, we don't have a release date for the full
game yet. I know on Steam they're cleaning up the development.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
That was one that when I went to the Nintendo
Experience that was one of the ones on the floor
that you could play. So I think, yeah, I think
it's definitely been taken very seriously by nintender. I think
it also sold very well on Switch. Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:19:09):
I think that's why it sold well because it was
on the Switch. Yea fairly popular there.

Speaker 1 (01:19:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
Yeah, I think it's like because a lot of people
in my chat were saying, like, oh, they're saving it
for the general direct, But then again, it kind of
brings to that conversation, then why really have an indie
direct or Indie world.

Speaker 6 (01:19:29):
Maybe going to be so switched to focused they're kind
of getting all the Switch stuff out like in the
earlier stuff because this was almost exclusively Switch.

Speaker 1 (01:19:41):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm expecting it if we do get a
direct next week or whatever, I'm expecting it to be huge.
I mean, as as as Iwana said, they've got out
the indies out the way, they got the pot and
stuff out of the way. We really need to know
a lot. We need to know a release date on
so many things like Metroid being number one I think,

(01:20:02):
and then also just like other announcements for next year,
and then like literally I know, I you know, this
is just me being hopeful, but I really do think
at some point sometime this year we're going to see
an animal crossing at least tease of some kind. Like
that's just how I feel in my heart, like what
I'm hoping for. I'm not saying anything other than that,
but that's really what I am expecting.

Speaker 3 (01:20:23):
That.

Speaker 1 (01:20:23):
I am actually expecting that, and I always have. I
think a lot of people are.

Speaker 5 (01:20:28):
Is that they're kind of leaving the a console seller
until more stock's being built up.

Speaker 6 (01:20:34):
That's what I'm to announce, So like we're starting to
see more stuff on the shelves, so they're waiting a
little bit, get the stock the shells restocked. Announce something
so that the shelves go before Christmas, they get it
restocked for Christmas.

Speaker 2 (01:20:46):
Again, they're trying to sell fifteen million right by the
end of the year, yeah, or by the end of
the first year of the switch.

Speaker 1 (01:20:53):
Yeah, the first physical Yeah, I'm really curious to see
how the next animal crossing sells, just because like it
it can't possibly hit the heights of the last one.
I mean, the last one was a pocket storm of
COVID and isolation, but I mean it'll probably hit twenty million,
pretty easily, I would say.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
I've said this, yeah in my videos, like this isn't
the same animal crossing that it was before, Like before
animal Crossing sold like what fourteen? I might be wrong,
but this is now a different I guess, a different
breed of animal crossing now that it's sold close to
forty seven million.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
Actually, if you may, and if we can, if we
can dip auto's into animal crossing. Sure you had a
theory that it was going to be an MMO, you
said right now.

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
Yeah, that was my most recent video.

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
Now I wanted to flesh that out a little bit
because I too have a theory, just a theory. And
this also ties in, not even on ironically, to something
else that you've been doing recently, Crafty, how much time
do you both have? You another fifteen to finish this out?

Speaker 5 (01:22:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
Okay, so crafty. You you are crafty and you got
in to the Nintendo Switch Online test playtest beta thing
and you've been playing that game. Uh first for a
second round.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
I've been on my discords over playing Mario Kart.

Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
So you sent me a ton you have not, You've
done nothing. I have a ton of pictures that I
acquired of this game. I don't think I can show
it because last time, last time I showed it, Nintendo
pulled the whole video down and I had to re
upload it. It's actually very funny I uploaded. I went

(01:22:44):
through like an hour of I found all the videos
and images on Blue Sky and I reacted to this game.
Nintendo's like hidden playtest MML game that you're not allowed
to show and it's all a secret, and Nintendo pulled
it down. So I re uploaded the video and blacked
out everything. So for an hour, I'm reacting and talking
about a black screen that the images I have a

(01:23:08):
very much more robust than last time. People seem to
be getting very creative with it now. To describe it,
it's it's kind of like a pixelated lower lower res Minecraft,
but it's it's all set. You explain it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
You've been playing it, yeah, I mean the best way
I could describe it here, I'll link you as well
into it. But it's essentially, do you know like hell divers, right,
or there's like an an ongoing world where there's like
different planets. That's essentially that where there's like over hundreds
of little areas that you go into and it's basically

(01:23:44):
like Tiers of the Kingdom depths, so it's all blacked
out so that you and everyone else have to go
in and light up the whole planet. And then your
goal as a community is to of course light up
the entire planet, you know, and I work to get
and after those planets these areas are lay up, you
could then do whatever you want. You could build, you

(01:24:05):
could you know, make community driven stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:24:07):
Now hear me out here, And I've said this before
on the podcast, and it might be what you've echoed,
this MMO thing that nintended with testing it. They have
said it's not a game that they plan on actually
like doing anything with, right.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
So, I mean they haven't said anything, but like my okay,
my original running theory that this was like a test
for animal crossing. I think that's where you're alluding to.

Speaker 1 (01:24:32):
That's what I'm getting to.

Speaker 2 (01:24:32):
Yeah, But playing it, there's a lot like they have
over like one hundred unique tracks, like just genuine splattoon
style yeah music tracks, And I'm like, you can't do
that for a test, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:24:48):
Yeah, I guess it's just for me. It's so it's
so hidden and so secretive, and they're not letting anybody
see it. It just feels like something they don't intend
people to see. Eventually, it's just some thing that they're
what I think is happening here. I'll give you my theory.
I think that that this is a stress test obviously,
to see if Nintendo can handle hundreds of people on

(01:25:11):
a server at any given time. What this game is
at its core is a globe in which these hundreds
of players load into and build things so another in
specific areas that are that are theirs. You can't build
in other people's areas. So to me, that's also their

(01:25:31):
stress testing, Like, hey, if people actually go crazy and
build up a ton of stuff, can our servers handle
it and hold it? What if the next Animal Crossing
was on a big globe of some kind or like
a giant land mass where tends to hundreds or whatever

(01:25:52):
of players can load into and you each PLoP down
your town center somewhere. That then becomes your designated area
that you can build in, and you have like a
New Horizons level of map you can build in, and
it's kind of, you know, kind of like New Horizons,
except you also get a car and you can leave
your town and you can drive to the neighbors town

(01:26:14):
and you can go and see what they're building or
what's happening in their city, or you can go and
then so maybe it's all online, or maybe you can
just build with your friends, or you can get into
friend lobbies or friends servers. But I've had this theory
because for me, it's like, if this isn't a game,
what a Nintendo testing this for? And they're really into
the whole open world thing right now where they're making

(01:26:35):
all their games open world, how does Animal Crossing go
open world? If they do have that mindset, Well, this
is kind of that.

Speaker 6 (01:26:43):
So cozy MMOs are actually on the rise at the moment. Okay,
it's technically a cozy mmo. We are spending and Loftier
is coming out this in Olfa Access this year, I think,
which was a Kickstarter, which was another cozy mmo. So
I feel like if we could have some bigger hands
jump into that sort of thing. I think personally what

(01:27:05):
I would be cool to see is maybe like almost
like a city that is populated by other people, so
you get city vibes of like literally other players running
around going to the shops. Yeah, like living their life
maybe you can sell stuff or.

Speaker 1 (01:27:19):
Your design a awesome cart to the next town and
selling your turnips in real time.

Speaker 6 (01:27:26):
Like, so i'd love something like city where it felt
like a city because there's other people, but like where
you don't feel forced or like you need to interact
and chat because ultimately Animal Crossing is fantastic, but it's
it's quite like I think intimates like the word like
you play it by yourself, where you play it with
your family and friends. You never it's it's not something
you necessarily always want to open up to literally everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
Yeah, I think there should definitely be a toggle of
like do I want the online experience or just do
I want to play solo? And I think they they
can't lose that other ways they are losing. As you said,
the core.

Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
NSO is a thing, so like if you don't have NSO,
there should be a version of the game you could
play off line.

Speaker 4 (01:28:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:28:08):
I think the game definitely needs as much content as
New Horizons and probably I don't know more. I mean
I would say more right because everybody.

Speaker 5 (01:28:18):
It was better.

Speaker 6 (01:28:19):
Yeah, like once they added all that stuff, I want
it to be more of a life sim They put
so much into the decorating. But if you didn't like decorating,
then the game was lacking a little bit.

Speaker 5 (01:28:31):
So I'd love more live.

Speaker 6 (01:28:32):
Sim like they used to have, like jobs you could
work and mini games you could play those things.

Speaker 1 (01:28:38):
They could definitely bring that back if you're doing cities,
because then people could have jobs. You know, your job
could be like the trade route guy, you know, or whatever.

Speaker 5 (01:28:46):
You look people in the world while you do jobs
and stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:28:49):
Imagine imagine someone has a city and their city has
like a coffee shop in it, but you have like
a farm, and you want to go work in the
coffee shops. Every day you drive to work and you
go work in someone else's coffee shop and they pay
They pay you bells out of them money the ecosystem
and everyone everyone comes.

Speaker 6 (01:29:05):
To pay people to get your weeds, come and get
your trees, and so cool.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
And you could be like, hey, everybody, we're going over
to like Crafty's Crafty's town or whatever to get coffee.
And so everyone meets over there. Dude that yeah, I mean,
it sounds sick. It sounds almost like too good to
be true, especially when you look at like Mario Coott's
Open World. You can't even do Pea switches with friends,
so you know.

Speaker 2 (01:29:30):
I mean, I have so many videos speculating on this
talking about you know, rumors that have been I guess
I don't want you want leaked out by by other people.
And I think a big thing that has been rumored
is user generated content for Animal Crossing the next one
and Corecidentally, in this playtest, there's a system where you

(01:29:51):
could create items and then sell them to other players,
and I think like that's something that could work well
with Animal Crossing as well.

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:30:01):
Yeah, and then there's just so many things. I don't
know how much you want to get into it. That's
just there's a lot of correlations in between the two.

Speaker 1 (01:30:09):
I mean, I'm with you on it. You were saying
that people had pushed back when you mentioned it being
an MMO. I think people are kind of they're thinking
of I think people might be thinking of MMO or
like warcraft, and that's not really that's not really what
you're saying. And I think the the MMO that we
would be looking at would be sick, and I think
people would like it more than they realize. Well at

(01:30:29):
the same time, yeah, well, at the same time, having
an offline mode, like a Wan was saying. Now, you
don't think I should show any of the pictures or
videos that I have, right.

Speaker 2 (01:30:40):
I mean on a bonus episode maybe, But how do.

Speaker 1 (01:30:44):
You know I do a bonus. I haven't mentioned a bonus.
You know what. That's a great idea. Actually, yeah, so
I'm going to do a bonus. You guys don't have
to join for that if you don't want to, especially one.
I know it's getting late for you.

Speaker 5 (01:30:58):
Yeah, I might have to. I'm might skip that.

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
But Crafty, what about you? You don't have to.

Speaker 2 (01:31:05):
I'm down for a bonus. I have a lot of
thoughts on it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:07):
Well, then we can look over your pictures. We can
look the pictures and videos I found. We can look
over them together.

Speaker 2 (01:31:15):
Yeah yeah, yeah, oh yeah. The stuff that happened to
just be there.

Speaker 1 (01:31:20):
I found it on Blue Sky again. So I do
that on the bonus and someone said I want to
see it. I'm so. I literally, this whole video will
get removed if I do it. It's not I'm not
trying to hide it behind a payball, it's just the
reality of it.

Speaker 2 (01:31:32):
I know of someone that had an unlisted video. It
got taken down and it was unlisted, so it's like, yeah,
well that this would be unlisted because that's how I
do it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:42):
We'll talk about it, Okay, two super chats quickly, just
from Veggie. Mighty fine. Best thing to come from all
of this was your yours and Prime's romance. I gotta
tell you. Me and Prime have been talking a lot.
He's a really good guy. And yeah, I didn't expect
that to come of this. If if there's a positive
here anywhere to that. And also he said that he
would start putting rumor instead of leaks in his titles,

(01:32:02):
so we see active change. Not that anyone has to
I don't care if anyone does or not. It was
just an observation more than the demand. But uh, and
then crit a nutto with a five unless he's talked
about it already in a bonus, Why isn't Wood talked
about the Zelda movie cast? I will talk about that
in the bonus. I really don't have any opinion on it.
They look fine, but we'll talk about it in the
bonus too. Iwana and Crafty, thank you both so much

(01:32:25):
for joining me today. Uh, it really means a lot
to me. Thank you so much. You both are so
wonderful and sweet, and I mean, I wanta obviously we've
been friends for a while now and I love our friendship,
and thank you so much for sticking by me, and uh, Crafty, Uh,
it's nice to get to know you. And I'm there's
a lot of things from this video that I'm really

(01:32:46):
appreciatedive of and it's good. It's good that we've got
to connect now. And uh, I'd love to have you
on the show again.

Speaker 2 (01:32:51):
Yeah, thank you for having me on.

Speaker 1 (01:32:53):
Yeah, Okay, I'm gonna get out of here. Do you
guys have any things to say?

Speaker 5 (01:32:57):
I'm already.

Speaker 2 (01:32:59):
You want to see more animal crossing speculation content Crafty
type one?

Speaker 1 (01:33:04):
Yeah, well, yeah, definitely. I mean that goes without saying.
Both the channels of the people here are linked down
below in the description, as well as Steven Sloman's Doctor
Steven Sloman's books. But yeah, go down and check out
both of their wonderful channels if you want cozy content
or if you want to stay up to date with
all the lakes and rumors from Crafty and everything. So
there's a video about me on the channel I saw.

(01:33:26):
I'm too scared to watch it. I have no idea.
What you said. I'm too scared. I can't my anxiety. Okay, good,
Hi everybody, I'll see everybody else in the bonus. If
you enjoyed this episode like it, leave a comment and
rate it five stars or whatever, and that's it. I'll
see you guys next week. Thank you so much. Bye bye.

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Nintendo Indie World Reaction & A Psychologist Breaks Down My Leak Video | Nontendo Podcast #148

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Nintendo Indie World Reaction & A Psychologist Breaks Down My Leak Video | Nontendo Podcast #148