Night Vision Demons?

Night Vision Demons?

Mark, Pam, and Jess

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Have you ever wondered what was out there in the
night sky, stared up at the stars in the hopes
of seeing something out of the ordinary. Have you heard
unexplainable noises coming from a vacant room or watched the
shadow across the wall in front of you. Have you
asked yourself if there's life after this one, or if
you had life before? What about strange creatures that are

(00:30):
mythical and elusive? Have you experienced dejevu or felt a
prompting to leave because you felt you were in danger.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
If you have, you were on the fringe.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
Welcome to another exciting and possibly informing, informative episode of
On the Fringe. I'm Mark, I'm him, and I'm Jess
yea where the wonder triplets Wonder wonder triplet powers activate it.

Speaker 4 (01:23):
Rings up. I want to have my rings on me, neither.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
I've got friends. You've gotten too fat for my rings.
It's terrible. I know, it's okay. He's here for all
of our nonsense.

Speaker 4 (01:47):
I can't wear mine because I can't wear my wheelchair
very easily with.

Speaker 5 (01:54):
I'm not wearing mine because I'm putting rats together.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, nice mice, nice mice. Oh those are cool, little.

Speaker 5 (02:07):
Little are a little I call them my derby mice.
Little mice.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
We're gonna excuse me, that is a lot of fun,
so we won't want uh anyway. Tonight's episode night Vision Demons. Uh,

(02:34):
it's been going around the internet for a while. So
the legend is that in Vietnam they were using some
experimental night vision that used red lenses. I can't remember
the name of the chemical that was on them.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
Something.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
It's the same thing that they used to do aura photography,
I believe.

Speaker 4 (03:00):
Yeah, it's thank you.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
Yeah. So the legend goes that almost as soon as
they started using them, the soldiers would start seeing creatures,
to the point of opening fire on these creatures, basically
freaking everybody out. And then there they take their goggles

(03:25):
off and there'd be nothing there. And there's a lot
of speculations, but there's no there's no documentation of any
of this. But as you know, a lot of the
stuff the government does, especially certain three letter agencies do,

(03:46):
you're not going to find anything because they don't want
you to find it. So I have not I don't
think there's even any If you do a freedom of information,
they don't come up with anything. So, uh. Anyway, we

(04:09):
do have stories though, from stories.

Speaker 5 (04:13):
Yeah, from the guy who was in charge of the
studies while uh they had active troops in Vietnam.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
Oh well, let's let's start with that.

Speaker 5 (04:25):
Well public before we before we dive into the stories,
we should, like we should roll it back and talk
a little bit about the history of how these goggles
even came about.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
M there. You, Well, they came about.

Speaker 4 (04:39):
For a really good reason, honestly because they were trying
to correct me if I'm wrong. They were trying to
help with I fatigue and things of that nature. Is
that right.

Speaker 5 (04:51):
I'm going to roll it back even further than that.
I'm going to start with the origins of these these
bad boys, because they're going to help us understand why
they did what they did and kind of the conspiracy
behind it, I think. So. Yeah, So to understand the goggles,
you have to understand they were talking about the chemical

(05:13):
makeup of them. It's they weren't made of this chemical.
This chemical, this diasin was applied to the lenses because
what it did was it filtered out different kinds of
colors that we can see and only allowed through uh,
the spectrum of the reds so that you could see
a little bit more than what you normally would. You

(05:36):
got ie fatigue because we aren't good at seeing reds
when we're good at seeing greens, and you see the
green pop into the to the.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
They still use it today because it shows contrast really well.

Speaker 5 (05:50):
Yeah, so, uh, previous to that, they did have scopes
and stuff before then in World War Two they didn't
do very well. They had the starlight scopes I believe
that were basically just for sighting on guns, and they
were only you could only see up to like four

(06:12):
times the magnification and you couldn't adjust it, so it
wasn't good for gunners that were on planes or on.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Hellte big spotlights with red lenses.

Speaker 5 (06:23):
Yeah, some of those you had to have a spotlight
on them just to even see. I know, the scopes
ended up using moonlight, but like I said, that you
couldn't adjust it, so it wasn't good for somebody in
the air. And in Vietnam it was all about the
air for us. We had more in air than than
anyone else.

Speaker 6 (06:44):
But the beginnings of this, we're going to go all
the way back to the early nineteen hundreds to a
Walter Kilner, and he is the reason why these came
about in the first place.

Speaker 5 (06:57):
He was born in eighteen forty seven. In nineteen twenty,
he was a British medical electrician and he actually specialized
in electrotherapy. He believed in auras, but he thought they
were scientific. He didn't believe in the whole mystic, esoteric

(07:21):
kind of thing of it. He believed that auras were
a part of our natural life and that if you
could see them, he would be able to know if
you were ill, or if you were in a bad mood,
or what have you. So he first introduced this kind
of concept, this theory that he could create a device

(07:47):
that would help him see peoples and animals or as
any living being. And he started doing this by taking
things that they were using photography at the time, and
one of which was diason. It was a chemical they
used on photography plates to help process them. And he
started using all these different chemicals and these different dyes

(08:09):
on the lenses to take away certain colors and to
start doing all this, and he found with the dias
and die alcohol and something else, I can't remember what
it was, that it filtered it in such a way
that he could start to see people's auras, and he
claimed that he could see three levels of auras on everybody.
He could see the outer aura, in the inner aura,

(08:32):
and then the what was it called. He had some
weird name for it, the etheric double. Oh yes, but
I think he was really onto something. The way he
lists how he found everything sounds very much like how
we view an aura today, different levels, different colors coming through.

(08:55):
It changes with your mood, It changes with you know,
like what time of life that you're in. And he
also claimed that everyone's was completely unique to their own.
Even when it came to animals, they all had their
own unique aura and they could actually watch it shift
and change as he watched it. People bought into this

(09:17):
very big at the time. In fact, there was magazines
complaining because they thought it should be outlawed, because it
should be illegal to see somebody's aura. If it's not
something you can normally see, you should have to have permission.

Speaker 4 (09:30):
That's interesting to see. It's basically like reading their mind.
I guess if you think about it, it's probably.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
The only right Yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:40):
Yeah, interesting yeah, Likelian photography.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (09:46):
So he did say that the device that he made
shouldn't actually be used for very long because it would
give you headaches, it could hurt your eyes or even
blind you. Eventually that it was solely a tool to
use to teach yourself how to start seeing auras on

(10:07):
your own, that it was simply like a learning device.
People started saying that the diasin was going to was
the chemical that was going to hurt you, as like
leeching into your skin, and it was really bad to
have near your eyes, and the scientific community in a
whole basically started calling it a pseudoscience. He wrote a

(10:30):
book on it, which you can still find. It's called
The Human Atmosphere, The Aura Made Visible by the aid
of chemical screens. And unfortunately, just ten years later he passed,
And I think that's part of the reason why it
kind of fell into a pseudoscience. He wasn't there anymore
to really back up his findings, and it was really

(10:51):
easy for the scientific community just poopoo it, you know, as.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
We all know, Yeah, nobody wants to lose their grant
money now.

Speaker 4 (11:01):
Yeah, And it's one of those deals where if you
argue with a tenured person, you're gonna lose, regardless.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
If you're right or not Yeah, you could be absolutely
one hundred percent right, and they're you're nobody. We're not
gonna listen to you.

Speaker 5 (11:15):
Yeah, So he passes. The scientists are claiming, you know,
this is all pseudoscience, and we're at the height right
now of you know, the spiritual movement, especially in the
United States. So there's these people that are really buying
into it, and then there's a whole other set that
are completely denying its usefulness. And I really think this

(11:40):
is where the Diason myth came about. So this all
passes into obscurity for a little while, and then we
come into wartime, and the troops in Vietnam, of course,
are having extraordinarily a lot of trouble. So if you
don't know a whole lot about Vietnam, it was a

(12:01):
war that really played out at night. It was not
so much a daytime war. The Gorillas and the North
Vietnamese spent most of their time ambushing and attacking in
the middle of the night because the US troops really
had the air, and air is not useful at night
when you don't have night Yeah, So the US scrambled,

(12:27):
the government scrambled trying to find anything that they could
you know, put forth quickly, and they, unbeknoast to a
lot of people, hit Kilner's old research and drug the
diason back out with the red vision. And that's where
we're going to come into play with all these fantastic stories.
And I'm going to say this before we start telling

(12:49):
the stories and all all this stuff that went on,
I ended up watching I'm sure you've seen it. Pam
the Haunted Objects podcast two years ago did a story
on Kilner's goggles. They called them the rr or goggles
or something like that, and they had a scientist that

(13:09):
they wrote to and asked about diasin, and you know,
was it that chemical so awful and so bad that
it would cause all these things? And come to find
out it's absolutely fine. The scientists in fact said that
she wouldn't mind wearing the goggles all day because it
was so inert. She said. The reason why they quit

(13:29):
using diasin for a photography and stuff was simply because
they just found better chemicals that worked far better and
that it wouldn't leach into anybody's skin or cause hallucinations
or do any of that sort. So think about that
as we put forth some of these stories that We've
heard they don't put off chemicals, so whatever was happening.

Speaker 4 (13:51):
Was not chemically induced exactly.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Well, he might have been chemically induced. We're talking Vietnam
and prolific, so I mean, we have to we have
to keep that in mind as well. We do.

Speaker 4 (14:07):
Maybe it was just some of it was blamed on
the goggles.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
Possibly. I also am of the opinion. You know, we've
seen MK ultra and the CIA was experimenting with mind
control using LSD, and I'm wondering if LSD was so
available in Vietnam, because the CIA may have been making

(14:32):
it available to see what it would do to the soldiers.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yeah, they may have been trying to soldiers.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
The well, every government but America has at least admitted
to a lot of their experimentation on soldiers and criminals
and random people. MK ultra. They were drugging people in
bars and taking them out and trying to do things
to their minds. And that's where we got the Union unibomber.

(15:02):
He was a product of MK ultra. He went insane.

Speaker 4 (15:08):
And the problem with some of these goggle visions, they
were driving people insane.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
Right, And there's all kinds of psychological reasons why that
could be. But do keep in mind the proliferation of
LSD at this point of time in the US military.
It's kind of a con conspiracy theory, and I'm not
going to say that they were. I'm just wondering if

(15:37):
maybe it was intentional. You know what.

Speaker 4 (15:41):
It makes me think too, because at the time, you know,
smoking was such a big thing. Everybody smoked. They would
drop ship tons of cigarettes to the troops on the ground.
How easy would it be to you know, put the
acid in the cigarettes. It would be nothing to do.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
So I don't always just it's just a little bit
of speculation on my part. It's one of those things
that if it was true, they didn't document it, or
if any documents may have been destroyed before they were filed.
You know, the CIA has been known to do that

(16:23):
as well, So keep that's something to keep it in
the back of your head.

Speaker 5 (16:32):
Yeah, So before we hit some of the other stories,
I want to hit the main story. So if if
you all at home want to go check this out,
I would suggest you do so you can find the
interview everywhere. It's all over YouTube. Back in the nineties,
I think it was eighties or nineties, A gentleman named

(16:55):
Cliff High came forward with the original story on this.
I mean, this story had been these stories had been
kind of floating around already, and he came forward after
his father had passed to tell his father's story. His
father was actually a fairly high ranking individual during the
Vietnam War and he was put in charge of these goggles.

(17:18):
Now you'll hear a lot of stories of people who
were actually at Vietnam who fought saying, oh, those never existed,
No one ever had those, well, not very many people did.
They were only used for sixty days, and they were
only used under his guidance with the gunners on the helicopters,

(17:39):
and then later on for about a week they were
used on ground level for a couple of different different opportunities,
one of which we're going to hear about. I found
another very interesting personal story that I wrote down so
I could tell you all because it's so much different
than the other ones. I thought it was really really interesting.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
So there were some really disturbing stories.

Speaker 5 (18:00):
Yeah, there's a lot. So this gentleman's name was Cliff High.
He did not name his father. I don't believe he
shares the same last name I think he has maybe
a stepmother's name or something like that. So his father,
of course, flew in Vietnam and his crews were tasked

(18:22):
with testing the goggles. So what he would do was
he would put them on his gunners because they're the
ones who are sighting, who are you know, need to
be able to see out flying out with crews of
helicopters into relatively peaceful areas where they knew there was
nothing going on. They just really wanted to see how

(18:42):
far and how well they could target with these goggles
on pitch black. Remember, So the first time they went out,
he had the gun or put the goggles on and
out searching, and within a minute of putting these goggles on,
his gunner goes absolutely berserk, screaming and starts shooting to

(19:07):
the side of the helicopter where the other helicopters are flying.
They're breaking up as fast as they can and getting
the heck away and he actually had to struggle and
get the trigger away from the gunner because he wouldn't
stop shooting the goggles off of Yeah, ripped the goggles

(19:31):
off of him and basically shook him. And he said
when he turned to look at him. His eyes were huge,
and just the look of horror on this man's face.
And this gunner claimed that when he put the goggles
on and got everything sighted, that the whole air around
the helicopter was full of these flying demon things he

(19:55):
called them, with long claws, and they were mocking him
and pointing at him, and he knew that if he
didn't shoot them down, they were going to get the
other helicopters.

Speaker 4 (20:08):
Yep y scary shit.

Speaker 5 (20:12):
Yeah, oh yeah, that is awful. Yeah. So this this guy,
he's just like he actually admitted at the moment that
he didn't think a whole lot of it. At that time,
Heroine was starting to go around pretty heavy with everyone

(20:33):
ground and air crews, and he chalked it up to, well,
maybe dude was dabbling where he shouldn't have. He actually
let that gunner go. I don't know what happened to
the gunner, but he tested it on the next one,
and it happened to every gunner he put in there.
And I will say this, they all reported the exact same.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
Thing they did, and to the point they even brought
an eye officers in to say, okay, let's try somebody
with a little more self control basically or whatever. They
were reporting it as well, same things.

Speaker 5 (21:10):
Yeah, So his father towards the end of the sixty days,
he's he's already told them. He was like, this is
going to stop, don't I don't know what this is,
and I don't know, I don't know what is happening.
But they were having to discharge these gunners from the
military because the PTSD alone, they would stay with them

(21:31):
for fred out they couldn't function. And he ultimately decided,
you know what, I have never tried this on myself.
I'm going to try it. And he actually tried it
while he was on the ground. He was outside of
one of the military buildings and thought, well, I'm just
gonna I'm going to walk out and try it on.
And he went out in the middle of the night,

(21:53):
slapped him on and within seconds he was seeing these
flying demon things with long, scraggly you know, claw fingers
sitting and roosting up in the trees all the way
around him, and they were flying up and then coming
back down and swishing over the top of him and
then going up back up in the trees. And he
quickly ganked them off and was looking around and of course,

(22:17):
there was nothing in the trees. And he even made
note to himself that there was some low lying fog
kind of hanging up in that tree line, and he
couldn't see any disturbance in that fog. You would think
if there was anything there right invisible or not, it
would disturb the air enough that you would kind of
see it whisp around or move, and it didn't. And

(22:38):
he put them back on again and they were right there.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
You know, it's interesting because we're talking about the fact
maybe it was LSD or something like that, and then
it wasn't a chemical that was leeching from the diocid itself.
So but then you've got somebody like this, you know
that second, yeah, and you would think if it was
something that was leaching from the chemical that it would

(23:03):
take at least a second or two, you know, But
he's seen it immediately. So I know, we've kicked around
this idea, and I know a lot of it, not
just to us, a lot of other people have too,
that maybe it's letting them see be on the veil
into a separate dimension and these things are actually there,
we just can't perceive them, and that is probably the

(23:23):
scariest thing of all.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
Well, yeah, I mean, and we've talked a lot on
this show, and you guys show about a lot of
what we think is paranormal is maybe interdimensional and just
stuff bleeding through that's real someplace else and we just
happen to see it because we might be at the

(23:46):
same place, but we're not in the same yeah, timestream
or whatever you want to It's kind.

Speaker 5 (23:53):
Of like John Keel. John Keel had a theory that
UFOs and aliens were completely interdimensional. He actually in many
of his books called them udos unidentified dimensional objects, and
that they were around us all the time, but we
could not see on the frequency in which they sat

(24:13):
in and that's how they would just kind of blip
out or disappear in front of us because they were
actually shifting. They were literally right in front of us,
but we can't see them, which this would.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
Put on kill pops everywhere. I was actually doing some
research yesterday on something completely different and kept bringing up
our hitting on his you know, him believing in the
window areas where there's basically thin spots around the earth
that things are there's just a higher strangeness in the area.

(24:46):
So yeah, John kills was an interesting day.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
And that's that's interesting because you know, if you look
at the interdimensional theory, it explains so much paranormal stuff, which,
according to we've talked about this before, according to quantum physics,
the other dimensions have to exist in order for quantum

(25:13):
physics to work.

Speaker 4 (25:15):
Well, it's been proven at least twelve dimensions, eleven twelve
dimensions for.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
Sure, something like that for sure. So if you think
about it, and we get all these stories that seem
like things have slipped through dimensions or we've seen through dimensions.
If this is happening accidentally, it should absolutely be possible
to make it happen technologically at some point. And it's

(25:42):
possible that we already have. It's just been covered up.

Speaker 4 (25:47):
Yeah. Zo just said, I've always wondered about UFOs being
seen around nuclear power and weapon sites. Maybe there's something
about radioactive material that allows us to see them and
they are everywhere all the time. That's very possible.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah, or they're monitoring and they have to come out
of whatever dimension they are to get a good sensor.

Speaker 4 (26:09):
Read or whatever. Maybe something with the power plant itself.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, think about the amount of electromagnic you know. Yeah,
the amount of electromagnetic radiation coming from one of these
plants is enough to give you cancer if you're around
it too much. What's it going to do to anything else? Yeah,
you know, it interferes with technology. It's a big deal.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
It is. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (26:40):
I think it's super interesting just from the point of
view of visual color. So these goggles with the red dye,
with this diasin dye, they're not infrared, They're not some
kind of special infrared. They're literally just letting you see
the red. And of course, you know, like as everyone knows,

(27:03):
we only have most of us only have two cones,
I believe in our eyes.

Speaker 4 (27:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (27:09):
Uh, if you have three, you have exceptional You can
see millions of colors. It's very very rare. But of
course a lot of animals have much more than that.
Of course, we know dogs and cats have more cones
than that. And I think there's some kind of an
insect or something like that that has like eighteen.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
Oh yeah, well, and what is the other there's something else.
It's a sea creature that has like so many that
we can't even fathom. One it is that they can
see in the world around them, you know.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
Yeah, so if you look at things from that point
of view, Like, we obviously are not seeing everything that
we could possibly see. So you know what if if
this stuff like UFOs and things that we think are interdimensional,
maybe they're not interdimension at all. Maybe they're within our dimension,
but we're not capable of seeing them.

Speaker 4 (28:00):
That makes sense. I mean, like dogs, they have way
more rods and cones, you know, and there's go there, go,
there's go along the outside of their eyes where we
have very few, but we have them, and that's where
they set.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
Our rods which allow us to see at night, Yes,
are concentrated, so light coming in from the side. That's
why you see things out of the corner of your
eye that you don't see when you turn and look
at it.

Speaker 4 (28:24):
Yes, exactly, And that's why sometimes you an entity or
something out of the corner of your eye, but yeah,
it's not there when you turn to look. But animals,
you know, it's obvious they can see stuff we can't.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yeah, even when I was hunting all the time, when
I was sitting up in a blind, I would see
better out of the side of my you know, out
of the sides than I could out in front of me.

Speaker 5 (28:53):
I think it's super interesting. So these gunners and stuff
seeing these what they thought were demons everywhere and driving
them absolutely insane and having them discharged. One of the reasons,
one of the other reasons why they discontinued these and

(29:13):
went to this to the green format, was because the
human eye has a really hard time deciphering reds. It's stressful,
and it's probably one of the reasons why Kilner had
all those issues. He would use those for a long time,
he would get eye fatigue, he would get headaches, and
I'm sure the whole if you used it long enough

(29:35):
you would go blind was probably just a made up thing,
because in nowhere in my research did I ever see
where someone went blind using a Kilner screen.

Speaker 4 (29:44):
It might be one of the uh, don't do this,
or you'll go blind kind of scary scare tactics.

Speaker 5 (29:51):
Yeah, I think so. But interestingly enough, so if we
were to hypothesize that you can see these extraordinary beings
that we can't normally see every day because we're seeing
it through this vision of red, but it's so stressful
to our eyes that we can't do it for very long. Obviously,

(30:13):
we were made not to see these for some reason.

Speaker 4 (30:16):
Kinzo, he pointed out, thank you for that Inzo that
it's manta shrimp. That's the sea creature. I was trying
to think of as a complex visual system with up
to twelve or even sixteen different types of photoreceptors. So
who knows what these little chilly shrimp you know, Yeah,
they see that. We don't see.

Speaker 7 (30:33):
Tripping out on the ocean floor, right, I see smells, yeah,
Oh my goodness, I smell colors.

Speaker 5 (30:50):
Yeah. So the size, There aren't tons of stories of
people using these goggles and then what they saw, because
the majority of them belong to these gunners and some
of the friends of the gunners who were all in
those helicopters who tried them on and saw the exact
same thing. Nearly all the stories are identical, and I
think that really says something.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, and it's a very small sample group too.

Speaker 5 (31:14):
Yes, especially within the military itself. I mean we've learned
over the years with the UFO stuff. You know, you
just don't talk about stuff like that. You'll lose your position.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yea in certain industries. Ever, again, because.

Speaker 5 (31:34):
Yeah, in the military, rank is everything. You don't want
to go back down. You only want to go up.
And the fact that these that these men were so
quite willing to yell this out. I mean they they
yelled when they saw these things. They were absolutely frightened
and scared. And uh, as far as this captain was concerned,

(31:59):
who was an charge of this original batch, he vouched
for all of them. He was like, I never saw
I've seen. He said he'd seen men that were on
the you know, the local heroine that was passing around
and some of the other nastiness they were trying. But
he was like, I know what they look like when
they're going through this, when they're on something, and he goes,

(32:21):
I did not see this with these men. They were
literally scared out of their skulls.

Speaker 4 (32:27):
So there's a guy and I can't think of his name.
I was trying to look it up just now. He
runs the Museum of Taro out of Nashville, Tennessee, and
he's the one that we'll get the Annals of Kentucky from. Basically,
he runs experiments and makes icean in goggles now and

(32:49):
has for a while. Really yeah, uses them in different things,
runs different little testing. But I haven't heard of him
do it in a while. But I don't following that closely.
So I don't know if he's really done anything recent,
but I know at least last year in the year
before he was working with it. So yeah, I think

(33:11):
it would be really fascinating to try.

Speaker 5 (33:15):
That would be especially.

Speaker 4 (33:16):
Now that.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
Maybe I mean, I'm already crazy, so what's it gonna hurt?

Speaker 5 (33:23):
So I have a couple of stories from gentlemen who
were not in the air. They did test this on
the ground a little bit, and I found a couple
of fairly credible stories that I wrote down. So the
first one, this gentleman was part of a group of

(33:44):
ground troops that was tasked to watch an area where
there were bodies left over from a battle that day.
It had taken uh that had taken place that day,
to see if the North Vietnamese would come in in
the middle of the night to rob the bodies. I
think they were almost baiting a trap again to see

(34:05):
if they could get them lured in, because they would
do that, They would come in and steal boots, you know, guns,
anything that they could pick off of those bodies. And
what a terrible job, you know what, I mean, to
have to watch that. So they told them where to go,
sent them out. The gentlemen set up a fair distance away,
had the goggles, and nothing seemed to go awry. All

(34:30):
night long they watched and none of the North Vietnamese
came in. They didn't see anybody come in, just the bodies.
And when it came on towards morning, they were passing
the goggles around and it got light enough that they
could kind of see out into this field and they
realized there were no bodies out there. But when they

(34:50):
put the goggles on, they could see the bodies, and
when they took the goggles off, the bodies were gone again.
Freaked them out. They ended up going back to where
they were supposed to go and they were like, there
weren't any bodies there. Apparently they had gone to the
wrong field completely. They were in a field where the
battle had not happened. There shouldn't have been anybodies.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
There they expected to see.

Speaker 4 (35:15):
That's interesting that.

Speaker 5 (35:19):
They watched non existent dead bodies all night long.

Speaker 4 (35:22):
He knows that the human mind is so tricky anyway,
you know, that's wild.

Speaker 5 (35:32):
It's the interesting thing is even if it was like
a self you know, a self satisfying hallucinatory kind of thing,
as you know, like a placebo type of pill situation.
Why did they continue to see the bodies when they
put the goggles on. You'd think that they wouldn't be
there anymore. Point, and they passed them around, he said,

(35:52):
they there was a good group of them there and
they passed those around to everyone, and they all said
they could see the bodies until they take them only
that's why.

Speaker 4 (36:03):
Well, I mean, if you think about, you know, the
multidimension theory, and you know, there's the idea of every
split second we make a decision to do something like,
you know, in this particular timeline, I'm going to pick
up my phone, But maybe I didn't do that, so
that splits off to a different timeline. So what if

(36:26):
in that case it's more of a matter of in
a different dimension. There was about on that field, and
they just happen to be tuning in to that particular
dimension with goggles. Maybe, I don't.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
Know, who knows. It's a pretty fascinating subject. I mean,
whether you're talking about psychology or pharmacology or demonology, it's
any of them. All the ologies are weird on this one.

Speaker 4 (36:56):
Yes they are.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
Yeah, I mean I'm not so sorry.

Speaker 5 (37:07):
I found a handful of other stories that weren't even
close to that, but they were just little tidbits and
pieces that really didn't make a full story, so I
didn't know how credible they were if they were just
somebody making a half fast recollection. But I did find
another one that I thought was interesting, and it was
reported by two men who were in the same group,

(37:31):
and it had a little bit more beat to it,
so I thought it was that was enough to bring
it forth for everybody to hear. So this was another
group of ground troops that were tasked to go in
and clean out a wooded area, And by that I
went and looked it up just to make sure I
knew what I was talking about. They were tasked with

(37:51):
going in and making sure that none of the Vietcong
had been hiding out in there, or were hiding out
in there, or were prepping to hide out in there.
Curarently they would go in and drop supplies and hide
it so that then when they moved into the area
they had a kind of a spot to set out in.
And this ground troop was tasked with going in and

(38:12):
cleaning out the area to make sure that there wasn't
anything waiting for anyone in there. So these gentlemen go
in there and they have the night scopes because they
want to do it at night under the cover of
darkness so they're not detected. And they all claimed that
they didn't go into the wooded area because just outside

(38:33):
the wooded areas they started looking in to see if
they could see any movement or anyone in there. They
were watching these creatures, and they didn't say exactly what
they looked like. They did say that they were twice
the size as normal men, and they were winged, and
they were watching them jump from tree to tree inside
the wooded area, both on the ground and up in

(38:54):
the trees, and they were reaching out. Yeah, they were
leaning out and looking at them. They were grouping up
and like pointing, like do you see those over there?
And then they would hide again and then pop back
out twice the size is a human man. I would
have noped right on out of there too.

Speaker 4 (39:12):
So you know what gets me. It never fails that
before we do these episodes, I don't find something that's
truly interesting till we're right in the middle of an episode.
I just happened to hit the Museum of Taro to
see what they had and they have an article on
seeing Demons in the dark red night vision in Vietnam,
but they also have attached in there a PDF of

(39:37):
some academic documentation. It's from the US Naval Academy and
it's titled The Secret of Seeing Charlie in the Dark,
and it recounts how soldiers use both the starlight scopes
and thermal viewers, and that they describe dragons, animated foliage,
and the phantom corpses like you were talking about testing
that it may have amplified a hallucinations or revealed something

(39:59):
even stranger, So that might be something interesting. I just
downloaded it and dropped it in our Ordertown drive under books,
so we have it in there to look at. No nice, Yeah,
but yeah, see see if I can find it, I'll

(40:21):
drop it in then. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (40:24):
So the other thing I wanted to talk about just slightly,
and it kind of goes with, you know, like the
UFO thing, like are they around us all the time?
That this gentleman, this captain who was in charge of
this research, he actually had the same kind of idea,
only he believed that these demon liked entities that he

(40:44):
eventually got to see were actually being drawn into the
area by the horrors of the war that was going
on around it, and that probably they wouldn't be seen otherwise,
But simply for the fact that the atrocities that were
happening was drawing these kind of evil things in and
that's why they were so clustered around everything, which I

(41:09):
have to give a little credence to. I always you
know it from personal experience. You know, when you have
a feeling about something, go with your gut. He may
very well have been right.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
Yeah, it's very possible. Now, it's interesting that there is
a company now that has night vision with that kind
of red lens in it.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
Now, you said, failing to post.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
They're fairly expensive though, so I'm not going to be
running out buying one.

Speaker 5 (41:40):
Yeah, but that's pretty much like the basics of that story.
It really did happen, and obviously the military realized that
this was not going to work for them, so they
very quickly switched to the green plates because, like I said,
the human eye can see so many different colors of

(42:04):
green so easily. It's the safest and the easiest to
look through, and these gentlemen look through them all night.
I found one story this gentleman was giving an interview
and he had talked about using these scopes during Saudi
Arabia and what they would do was they would only

(42:25):
wear one. They would wear one over one eye and
leave the other eye open for you know, targeting if
they needed to really quick and they became so used
to it, their eyes would adjust and they would see
the green at the same time they were seeing the
regular and their brains eventually learned to put it together.

Speaker 4 (42:44):
It's almost like the strange glasses that you get at
the movie exactly.

Speaker 5 (42:49):
And he said it was so completely unnatural that when
you know, they left like they weren't using them anymore.
He actually had a hard time seeing at night because
his eye automatically wanted to adjust to the secondary. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:05):
Mark, I tried to uh paste that into our chat
and it wouldn't work, but it would paste into the
private chat. So can you go grab that from there
and drop it in then.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
I can let me find the I don't.

Speaker 4 (43:20):
Know why I will let me. I tried it twice.
Let me do it in the private for whatever reason.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
Open link and new tab mmm, new tab, come on,
but it.

Speaker 4 (43:37):
Might be an interesting little article too.

Speaker 8 (43:39):
It is not opening it, Ah, I wonder yep, hold on,
let me share, Yeah, cherish thing.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
There we go.

Speaker 4 (44:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (44:07):
Yeah, if you just type in Museum of Taro and
then like night vision or Vietnam, it'll pull it up.

Speaker 4 (44:17):
Yeah, it will so for these article actually, yeah, and
then about halfway down there's a link to a pdf. Yes, yeah,
right there. The secret is seeing Charlie in the dark.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
That's that's pretty interesting.

Speaker 4 (44:35):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (44:37):
And if you're interested in the interview with Cliff High,
you can find it all over YouTube. Just writing Cliff
High and High as H I g H Cliff High
Vietnam Goggles. You can type in something as simple as
that and you'll find scads.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
I saw three or four copies of that interview, not
even hardly looking for it.

Speaker 4 (44:58):
Yeah. And like I said earlier on an Object's podcast
last year, they did a really really interesting segment on
the goggles that is worth watch.

Speaker 5 (45:11):
Yeah. They're hilarious and they do a really good deep
dive on it. You'll hear way more than what I
spoke of today. They don't actually go into the whole
Vietnam part of it. They don't go much beyond Kilner's life,
but really interesting read or really interesting watch or listen
if you They are also on just the regular podcast

(45:33):
providers if you just want to listen.

Speaker 4 (45:35):
Very highly entertaining, too informative and entertaining. Yes, speaking of
I found out where they're going to be at in Oklahoma,
of all places. They'll begin to eat it for what
they're They're part of a weird day of lectures. There's
four different lectures that are occurring, and they're going to

(45:57):
be number three in the lineup. So I'm going to
be there March twenty. First, they didn't release a date
or anything. I just happened to punch it in and
it popped up in at Oklahoma. I was like, are
you kidding me? That's wild. I don't be part of
it yet.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
But yeah, wow, we will have to look into that.
That will be that's that's a fun day trip.

Speaker 4 (46:20):
Yes it is, and they are fun to watch. And
last time Data had COVID so we only got to
see Greg, so hopefully she won't have COVID this time. Yeah, right,
both there.

Speaker 5 (46:32):
So before I know, we're kind of heading out towards
the end. Here. I did I found some stories about
night vision goggles that we have. Now, did you find
some of those?

Speaker 3 (46:44):
I did? See some snippets about it. Not enough for
me to really come up with nothing, nothing written. I
found some videos.

Speaker 5 (46:54):
I found a couple of little blurbs. They're often used
at battlefields, oddly enough, apparently Gettysburg is a big one
where they use these night vision goggles at There's claims
that if you sit there long enough with them, you
once in a while we'll see an entity pop up
someone on the.

Speaker 4 (47:12):
Battlefieldest then regular probability of seeing something that's interesting. Talking
about this stuff, you know what it kind of reminds
me of and it's completely unrelated, but it makes me.
It just popped in my head. Foo Fighters, Yeah, you know,
in World War Two there they were seeing there was
claims of seeing these little grimliny creatures on the planes,

(47:37):
around the planes and stuff, and they were called foo Fighters.
And in fact, that's where the band got its name,
the Food Fighters, was from that. And then they completely
regret moving that because it really didn't mean anything. They
just thought it was a cool word. But yeah, so
there's there's also stories during more time of creatures being

(47:58):
seen without.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
Golf, actual actually gremlins, yeh, sabotaging plains and whatnot, especially
in the Asian theater. Now it's interesting, Uh, almost all
the Asian cultures talk about creatures beyond the veil that

(48:20):
people have seen with their eyes, whether it be kami
or uh other creatures uh that made themselves known. Japanese
culture is full of them. But uh, there are similar
stories in all the Asian Asian cultures, uh about seeing

(48:46):
creatures like that. So, I mean, and we're talking about Asia,
I mean Vietnam. It is there something about that area
that's just lends itself to strange things in the night maybe?

(49:08):
And you know, and that this also brings up the
are we seeing? Are we seeing a I just lost
my word where you just think something into being effect? Yes? Perfect.

(49:33):
If you've got millions of people that believe these creatures
are running around in the forest all the time, whether
you're part of that culture or not, they may be
making that manifest yeah situation. Yeah, So I mean there
there's that too, and the psychological effects, because if you

(49:56):
leave the red goggles on too long, it starts giving
you a headaches and causes all sorts of physiological effects.
So what if you have this Tulpa effect going on
and then people are not quite in their right minds
because the red is really bothering. That's one of the
reasons why they went away from red. Not only do

(50:16):
you not see as well, it does affect your brain. So,
I mean it could be a combination of things. It
could be a lot of hohoha. I would like to
think that there really saw something. It's difficult to tell

(50:39):
with no real documentation. I'm sorry. Documentation makes it proving
your case a lot easier, and that maybe why it
doesn't exist.

Speaker 4 (50:55):
The fear that these guys came away with and the
PTSD even though it wasn't called PTSD at the time. No, yeah,
shell shock, Yeah, yeah, that was too prevalent with these
reports to think that they didn't see something. You know,
they saw. They had to have seen something, right, and

(51:18):
even for the officers to put them on and be like,
oh ship, there's stuff here. They're not lying and.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
Yeah, it's weird that it's almost immediately Yeah. So, I mean,
is that guy from the Museum of Taro getting the
same thing?

Speaker 4 (51:38):
He you know what, I can't remember. That's terrible. Yeah,
it's been too long since they are.

Speaker 5 (51:46):
We know it's not the chemical though, because scientists have
said that that diasin it's a nerd. It doesn't do anything.

Speaker 4 (51:54):
So basically, the Museum of Taro they have the di
but they call him or goggles and they yeah, they
they use them more to see auras than they do creatures.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
Well, Charellian photography is so expensive to do. Yeah, although
I they have proven that it does see energy.

Speaker 4 (52:19):
And you know, I would absolutely love to have a
photograph taken like that of my leg because I have
heard and I have seen photographs that have been taken
of the One that I'm thinking of is someone that
had lost their forearm and they took the photo and
you can see the aura of where their hand and

(52:40):
their missing.

Speaker 3 (52:40):
Arms would be. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (52:42):
Yeah, I would love to sing yeah, because you know,
I like, my accident was thirty one years ago, but
I can still wiggle my toes even though they're not there,
so and I still have that depth perception when I
walk that my foot's hitting the ground, so my you know,
in my brain it's it's opposite of like being a

(53:04):
paraplegic or whatever, where the nerves are severed and your
body doesn't think it's there anymore. My body still thinks
it's there. So with that in mind, you know, my
brain thinks it's there, so I'd be really curious to
see if it shows up on photography.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
That would be when my mother was still keeping her
r N license up. She attended a class called the
Healing Touch and it was basically about aura and they
did an experiment and so you would go and run

(53:39):
your hands right above somebody. You wouldn't touch them, run
your hand above somebody and say okay, and you could
feel where they were hurting you through your hand and
as you ran was like petting a cat but not touching.
As you ran your hand by, the people would claim to,

(54:03):
uh feel the pain lessening. And she tried it. That worked.

Speaker 4 (54:10):
That's similar to what Christy, our friend Christy does something.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
And it was just the human nervous system and the
energy feeled around it. You could feel the disturbances, is
how they explained it. And it was just one of
those things that she went one of those seminars she
went to just to get ours. Yeah, and it was
really interesting she told us about it. It was pretty interesting.

Speaker 4 (54:37):
Crily in photography of leaves where they cut off a
part of the leaf and it's still there on the photo.

Speaker 3 (54:41):
That's I've seen that, Yeah, that's so cool. I have
seen that, so, I mean there's something to it. Is
it a bunch of stuff that's been mashed together in
a giant storyball? Maybe? But I think these guys saw something.

(55:04):
I would like to I would hopefully like to find
some sort of documentation at some point. I'd like to
dive deeper into it. There's just not a huge amount
of information out there.

Speaker 4 (55:20):
But you know what's interesting is the fact that they
only use them such a short amount of time and
they pulled them. That tends to lend credibility to it
as well.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
It means a high high a high frequency of bad
things happening. It was like, let's get rid of this crap.
Dumb idea was that. I don't know what idea you're
talking about. I didn't have it.

Speaker 5 (55:44):
Yeah, I don't. I have another yet another horror story
of the military dipping their fingers in where they don't
belong and they.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
Stuff and rather than the military dues experiments like that.
Just need to look at some of these conspiracy theories
that have they have admitted to. So we've got the
testing of stuff on prisoners without their knowledge or permission,

(56:20):
We've got the Tuskegee experiments where they gave syphilis to
hundreds of black men so they could see how they died.
The Navy shelled San Francisco, claiming it was an accidental
firing to see how a fairly harmless bacteria would propagate

(56:44):
through the hospitals. It did actually take one person's life
because they they didn't get treated. Here's the American history
is full of all that. And just wonder what everybody
else is less than the benevolent government may have done

(57:05):
to them.

Speaker 4 (57:07):
Scary.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
You know, we're lucky here in America because we've got
a fairly transparent government. I mean fairly, it's not completely
we all know that they all do things behind but
compared to other countries, yeah, I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (57:24):
I don't know about that.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
But well, the only difference between our country and everybody
else's as ours is fest up when they've got caught.

Speaker 4 (57:33):
Times sometimes sometimes And so said, I wonder if these
entities actually can see or can interact with this or
our world. Seeing them sitting in the top of a
tree with fog and the tree and the fog or
unaffected that was.

Speaker 5 (57:48):
I don't know if they could touch us, but I
know that they interacted. They pointed and mocked and you know,
made eye contact with these men. Even the captain said
that they had made eye contact when they were up
in the trees, that they were like swooping at him purposefully.

Speaker 4 (58:06):
So it makes me wonder did they realize they could
see them? Is that why they were died bombing them
and freaking out?

Speaker 5 (58:15):
So like they were like, oh, they're seeing us all
of a sudden. It's kind of like you know, a
medium or a psychic that comes into an area and
suddenly you know they're spirit yeah, and they're you know,
back off, Oh she can she or he can see us.
I think it was that kind of a thing, only
I don't think these beings were quite about needing or

(58:38):
wanting help or any kind of benevolence. I think they were.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
Almost sounds like jen.

Speaker 4 (58:48):
Yeah kind of yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:49):
I mean I don't know, you know.

Speaker 5 (58:53):
You know what this reminds me of, Like this is
I mean, it's not exactly the same kind of tech,
but it just kind of reminds me of all the
stuff that started happening with the Xbox three sixty cameras
that were used for ghost hunting and all the smart
car stuff that's happening now have you seen all?

Speaker 4 (59:10):
They're like driving through a cemetery and all these people
start walking next to the car.

Speaker 5 (59:16):
The ones that freak me out the most are the
ones were like the car all slam on its brakes
because it's just watched a human walk in front of
the vehicles.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
And there's no there. Yeah, that's great. Well, and these
like the Connect for instance, it's shooting out millions of
little dots of ir light and then mapping anything that
breaks those dots. That's how it. You know, when you

(59:44):
were playing playing the games with it, it tracked your movement.
And how this came about was, uh, there'd all of
a sudden be a second player or something, and they
started experimenting with the cameras and I need to get
me a Connect camera and play with it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:01):
We've had some really good luck with that type of photography,
and especially in one particular case that I know you
guys remember that was in an old boy's home that
there were multiplehouse Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
Yeah, and those aren't terribly because there's not they're not
putting out all the little dots, no, And it was.

Speaker 4 (01:00:24):
Wild because there was one that we can see standing
on a bed and the owner was brave enough to
walk in and stand on the bed and hold her
hand out, and it reached out and put its hand
in her hand, and she felt it. We didn't tell
her it was there. She was like, it's touching me,
and we're like, yeah, it is touching you. It is

(01:00:45):
touching you. We took a picture of it and you
can see her with her hand extended and it's got
its hand in hers. So, yeah, it was pretty wild.
But the one bathroom where they were having a lot
of problems, there was like there were almost like ants
in there. There were so many of them.

Speaker 5 (01:01:00):
Stirred in the window. Yeah, and that was the most
That was the most one of the most exciting things
I've ever seen. First of all, I'd never seen, you know,
it makes the little stick figures to mark a body,
like twenty little teeny tiny stick figures clustered in this window,
and you would take one step inside of that bathroom

(01:01:21):
and they would vanish.

Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
Yeah, and then if you stood still, they'd slowly start
coming back.

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:27):
They weren't like just still like it was a reflection
or something. They were all moving independently of each other. Yeah,
it was just like a cluster of ants in the window.

Speaker 5 (01:01:38):
And another interesting thing I always you know, because people
are like, oh, it's just picking up the pattern of
the curtain or whatever was behind or whatever. It was
one of the most important interesting things about this particular
little video. There were curtains on this window, but they
weren't completely closed. It was a little flower print. And
I understand, you know, it may want to matrix something
out of a flower print, right, but you had the

(01:02:00):
flower prints and then you just had a black window
behind it, open to the darkness outside, and those little
critters moved in front of that and then back in
front of the curtains and back out again. So it
wasn't setting there, you know, matrescing. No, it was behind it.

Speaker 4 (01:02:16):
Yeah, it was like blackness outside and it was just
like a solid white, you know, painted windowsill. So yeah,
they were and they were on top of the windowsill moving.
They weren't like in front of it or in front
of just the curtains. They were on the windowsill itself.

Speaker 5 (01:02:32):
It's fast so interesting, you know, it's just what are
we not seeing that's right in front of us.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
I would like to see some actual trained scientists working
on some of these things and not just poo pooing
them because they want to get grant money.

Speaker 5 (01:02:51):
You know, I'm sure there probably are. They're just we
don't get to hear about them.

Speaker 4 (01:02:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
I was going to say, a bunch of us grew
sot to get together and provide funding to somebody.

Speaker 5 (01:03:04):
Smart funding. Somebody needs to provide funding them.

Speaker 4 (01:03:08):
What's money thing? I don't know what this is.

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
Something I'm getting ready to not have any of because
I'm going car shopping.

Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
Oh boy, yeah, that'll take a chunk out of your
income for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
Few weeks pay every month that's going on.

Speaker 5 (01:03:29):
Yeah, well, at least you will be going for a
nice car that you can rely on and not for fixes.

Speaker 4 (01:03:36):
Yeah that's true.

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
Oh you know I can always make my son drive me.

Speaker 4 (01:03:41):
Oh that's true.

Speaker 5 (01:03:42):
Yeah, because that's what you want. You want to have
to run on him.

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
I have to not look at the road. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:03:53):
Yeah, I think I buy that new car. Yeah, yeah,
I know, your son, go buy a car.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Yeah. I'm also going have you seen the deer on
the road lately? I'm going to the deer now catcher
for the front of my car.

Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
Yeah, it's like a deer apocalypse on the way to Coffeeville.

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
There's red. There's big red smears all over the highway.
There was at least six of those on the fifteen
miles to work. It's like every other mile there's another
big red spot. Well there another one bites the dust.

Speaker 4 (01:04:28):
And so said, I'm marginal on the connect videos. The
system is trying to make patterns out of what it's seeing.
I feel the biggest mistake is when they're moving the
camera around and say something is moving. Yeah, that is
an issue.

Speaker 3 (01:04:39):
That is an issue.

Speaker 4 (01:04:41):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
I really think for that to really work, it needs
to be on a tripod.

Speaker 4 (01:04:45):
Yeah, that would be That would be ideal.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
I still think we need to get one experiment with
it though, So cool. So anyway cool? Did you guys
have screen just flash? Maybe it's the interweb, maybe it's
not my computer.

Speaker 5 (01:05:10):
I don't know, but there you go. What is our
final idea on it? Do we think? Do we think
they were actually seeing something? Was it working as like
a portal type situation?

Speaker 4 (01:05:22):
I think they were seeing something. I not only do
we have their reports, we have the terror, we have
the PTSD, and we have the government ganking it back
from them quickly. Those things make me think that there's
something to it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:41):
I'm withholding a final decision. I want to believe that
these guys actually saw something. It sounds credible, But until
I see some kind of documentation show up, I'm gonna

(01:06:01):
be on the fence. But I want to believe because
they do. The story seem somewhat credible to me, and
it kind of goes with what we've been talking about
all this time with the multi dimensional stuff, and you know,

(01:06:25):
it may have been a combination of stress in the
red and you know all the stuff that you know,
the Asian proliferation of creatures that people see. I definitely
think there could be something to it, but I'm going

(01:06:49):
to wait for a little while before i make up
my mind for sure.

Speaker 5 (01:06:53):
Well, I think that the proof is in the pudding.
So if you look at the entire story, the entirety
from the beginning of when this was kind of invented,
clear through until the Vietnam War when it was discontinued,
I think the stories are absolutely legit, especially from that
captain because he knew the history of the diason. How

(01:07:18):
could someone have made up a story gone back to
nineteen eleven to root up something like that and bring
it back to be used in the Vietnam War as
a farce. They knew too much about how it worked,
the history of it to I think for it to
have been faked, and I don't believe we'll probably ever

(01:07:39):
get any kind of I don't think there was probably
any paperwork done on it. It was done secretly. It
was only tested for sixty quick days. They gave it
to a no name captain to try it on his gunners.
It didn't work and they tossed it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
So do you think it was the actual army or
do you think it was the CIA.

Speaker 5 (01:07:57):
I think it was just the military. I think they
were really needing some night vision to get a one
up on the North Vietnam and the viet Cong, and
they were desperately trying anything and that was cheap. Yeah,
it was cheap. They went back and they were like, oh,
this dude had this here and it was doing something.
Let's try it. And I think they tried it and

(01:08:19):
it failed horribly. They chucked it and just kept moving on.

Speaker 4 (01:08:24):
And it just ate their lunch in that war too,
because they were not only completely out of their their
you know, territory. Yeah, these guys they were dug in
there was tunnels everywhere, you know, there were swamps everywhere
that were causing all kinds of medical conditions with the
soldiers that were on the ground. So it was a

(01:08:45):
horrible war to try to fine.

Speaker 3 (01:08:47):
Yeah, not to mention the dioxen that they were spraying
on the tooate the forests. Uh. You know, my dad
and my wife's dad were both exposed to the agent
orange and both of them had medical issues because of it.
What else did they try that we don't know about.

Speaker 4 (01:09:09):
Yeah, that's just one of the biggies that we do
know about.

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):
Yeah, and they denied it. They told my dad he
was crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:09:15):
Yeah, they did, unfortunately. And you know, the really sad
part about that was these guys fought for their country,
for our country, for our freedom, and when they came
back they were treated horribly.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
Yeah, you know, and then then the government treated them
horribly because you know why, it's too expensive. We made
these guys sick, and we don't want to pay for it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:44):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:09:44):
It's just like the burn pits in the Middle East.
These guys who are around the burn pits and they
were burning hazardous chemicals, they were burning out of date
chemical weapons that they found that didn't exist, but they
found inert ones that had gone bad, so they didn't

(01:10:05):
want to count them. But when they burned them, they
were putting toxic stuff out in the air. And it's
still causing people problems today. And oh, road that doesn't
do anything.

Speaker 4 (01:10:17):
Have you guys heard. And this was just like last
week where I was seeing this. You know, DDT was
a big deal. It was used on insecticide, pesticides for everything,
and it was causing cancer. So they pulled it back
and in the just off the coast of California, off

(01:10:39):
the San Francisco Bay, it's out there's it's very close
to an island out there. I can't remember the name
of the island. There's like twenty five thousand barrels that
they have discovered on the seafloor that are leach et
because yeah, they you know, they there was. It was

(01:11:00):
in California, and when it was outlawed, they had to
do something with it. They barreled it up, they threw
it in the ocean, and the really bad part was
to keep the barrels sunk. A lot of them not
tolls in the barrels, and there's like a super high
concentration of cancer in seals out in that area.

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
People were kind of dumb, and governments especially are even dumber.
I'll tell you a story that I heard in a
psychology class when I was in college. We had a
debate and the teacher made us debate each side of
the problem. Should corporations have the same rights as a

(01:11:48):
person like you and me? And so there was the
yes team and the no team, And then at the
end of it, well, the teacher says, now I want
you to tell to tell you you're both right and
you're both wrong. So yes, corporations should have rights, but

(01:12:09):
they shouldn't be considered like people, because if you judge
a corporation or a government by the standards you would
judge a human being, every one of them has schizophrenia
and multiple personalities. Because there are so many voices going

(01:12:29):
all the time trying to make decisions that it just
turns into chaos. And you know, that's that's we see
that with government all the time. There's so many, so
many voices out there in the wilderness, and the government
often actually works against itself. Companies that I've worked for

(01:12:55):
that I can't name, I've seen it happen. I worked
for company that almost put itself out of business two
years in a row before somebody bought them and fixed them.
You know, just it's insane. It's literally insane. If you
if they were a person, they would be literally insane.

Speaker 4 (01:13:15):
There's a saying that what is a giraffe? I believe
it's a draft. It's a horse built by a committee.

Speaker 3 (01:13:25):
There you go, you're not wrong.

Speaker 8 (01:13:28):
Yeah, yeah, let's put that run on there.

Speaker 4 (01:13:36):
Nobody can agree on anything. I think it's a girafft
I could be wrong, but it's something funky, you know.
Or maybe it's a camel. What's a camel? Of course
built by a committee? That might be it. Ian said.
There's an island off the coast of Scotland completely out
of bounds after the UK government decided to check anthrax
all over it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:55):
Oh my gosh, Fridge Island. Yeah, goodness, that's that's intelligent.

Speaker 4 (01:14:06):
Crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:14:08):
It's a government. All governments are crazy. All corporations are crazy.
Too many people, too many voices. And then then there's
the money. Well what do we do to save money? Well, Fred,
we're gonna go dump it out in the ocean.

Speaker 4 (01:14:22):
Because it's not their problem. In fifty years, you know
it's right.

Speaker 3 (01:14:26):
Problem, Yeah, our grandkids will figure something out, all right. God,
I'm not wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:14:37):
No, you're not wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:14:41):
No, I see I see myself thinking that way. Once
in a while, I was like, I don't care who
my kids can do what it? Sorry, kid, I ain't
gonna live twenty years. You can worry about it.

Speaker 5 (01:15:01):
Unfortunately, I think that's pretty much. That's They're just they'll
pass it down to the next generation.

Speaker 3 (01:15:08):
Of sometime that bucks are going to stop.

Speaker 4 (01:15:16):
Fascinating topic to me.

Speaker 3 (01:15:18):
It is even though we did get in the weeds
a little bit, but even though there's not.

Speaker 4 (01:15:25):
There's not any more than normal.

Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
Actually we're doing pretty good lately.

Speaker 4 (01:15:31):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:15:32):
It is an interesting topic. I wish there was more
information out there on it. That's the that is the
only thing wrong with this topic. Yea, almost all the
information is based on just a few stories. But they
only did it for sixty days and a very small
test group, so there's not going to be a lot

(01:15:53):
of stories.

Speaker 4 (01:15:55):
Right, spectacularly disastrous.

Speaker 3 (01:16:03):
And I can see somebody going like, Bob, this never happened. Yeah,
you know, it was a small enough group. Nobody actually died.

Speaker 4 (01:16:17):
Yeah, but did you die trash. Can you just screwed
up the rest of your life?

Speaker 3 (01:16:25):
But did you die exactly? But did anybody die? Nope,
it didn't.

Speaker 4 (01:16:30):
Happen at least not. Then they may have later.

Speaker 3 (01:16:35):
Yeah, who knows what.

Speaker 5 (01:16:38):
I don't know how well. I don't know how available
the records are from the Vietnam War. But it would
be interesting if somebody had the time to sit down
and go really pick through records and see if there
was a section of time a sixty around, you know,
a two month shred up time where a lot of

(01:16:58):
gunners out of out of a particular battalion.

Speaker 3 (01:17:03):
That would be an interesting research go.

Speaker 5 (01:17:06):
Yeah, because that might prove it right there, you could
probably wheedle it down.

Speaker 3 (01:17:12):
Yeah, if a whole bunch of door gunners got discharged
in a sixty day period, Yeah, from the.

Speaker 5 (01:17:19):
Same you know, like groups that that would probably prove it,
I would think, But I don't know, you know, I
would know the first thing about trying to start.

Speaker 3 (01:17:28):
That I wouldn't either. Oh, I can barely research the
show let alone.

Speaker 4 (01:17:35):
Could you imagine the foy you'd have to go through
to try to oh yeah, requests to try to.

Speaker 3 (01:17:41):
Even want you you would have to find out the
name of the operation or the name of the experiment,
then you might there's probably is that if this happened,
there probably is some kind of documentation somewhere, but you've
got to ask for it specifically, and if your foya
is too vague, you're not going to get anything.

Speaker 4 (01:18:03):
I wonder if it was even considered an experiment, you know,
or was it just like it would have been, Yeah,
here's these goggles that you can well at night with.

Speaker 5 (01:18:13):
I think that's literally what it was. I think that
they handed this captain, this dude who was in charge,
and they were like, hey, we've got these new night
vision thingies. Test them out with your gunners and see
if they help out anymore. And I think after that
sixty days when that captain put us put down and
was like, we can't do this anymore. I can't do
this to my guys, they were like all right, and

(01:18:34):
they chucked it and moved on with what else they
were using.

Speaker 3 (01:18:37):
Yeah, I mean I can see it happening. I definitely can.
But like I said that, our history is full of
the government and particularly the military, doing shady stuff. And yeah,
I don't know what you're talking about. Damn conspiracy us.

Speaker 4 (01:19:01):
For sure.

Speaker 3 (01:19:04):
Well, if that being said, I think we're about done
for the evening. You guys got anything else you want
to share? I do. I have heard a few whispers
of people still seeing weird things on night Vision. Yeah,
so I'm hoping somebody will get some video. We should
probably look into that again, about weird things people catch

(01:19:29):
on night Vision, but nothing as spectacular as this.

Speaker 4 (01:19:34):
Yeah, this was the grand Yetty for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:19:37):
Yea, so it was a fun, fun project to look into. Sure.
All right, guys, Well, with that being said, everybody have
a good night. Thanks for stopping by. Listen to us
wherever you get your podcasts, watch us on you YouTube

(01:20:00):
and Facebook. Thank Yeah, before we go, what are you
guys going to be talking about a week from Wednesday?

Speaker 5 (01:20:12):
That's forgotten? So it's gonna be a big show. In fact,
we should have Mark on because it's one of Mark's
favorite topics. We are going to talk about Fiona Broom,
Lester Stain and the Mandela. Yes, okay, I'm in I
So you know, like, put on your fruit of a
loom and grab your fruit loops because we're gonna hit it.

Speaker 4 (01:20:31):
Every day is a new day to me.

Speaker 3 (01:20:33):
So yeah, you. You will freak out if I show
up with a bowl of fruit loops, and.

Speaker 5 (01:20:39):
I will not. I will be all about.

Speaker 3 (01:20:40):
It, all right. I could bring the fruit loops from work.
Might not get in my office though.

Speaker 4 (01:20:50):
Let him stand around everywhere.

Speaker 3 (01:20:52):
There you go.

Speaker 5 (01:20:55):
Yeah, all right, guys, Yeah, now next Wednesday at seven
pm Central.

Speaker 3 (01:21:00):
All right, everybody, have a good night. Thanks for stopping
by night everybody. Good night.