Bill Schroeder - Living Authentically at 60 - Out Late With David

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
[Music]

(00:12):
You're listening to Outlay with David, true stories of coming out later in life.
And now, I'm here to host David Cun.
My guest today joined us from Houston, Texas and says turning 60 was a real turning point for him.
It made him realize it was finally time to live a more authentic life.

(00:33):
He came out to his wife of 37 years, as well as his two children.
And today, he says he has never been happier.
Join me today as I talk with Bill Schroeder on Outlay with David.
[Music]

(00:56):
Hi, Bill. Thanks for being here today.
Thank you for having me, David. I appreciate it.
Now, you came out after 37 years of marriage, and I did that kind of proves that it's never too late.
You know, what kind of kept you in the closet for all those years?
I had a great life.
I loved my wife dearly.

(01:19):
We had a great home here in Houston with the pool and everything.
We had a lot of really good friends.
We enjoyed each other's company a lot.
And we got along extremely well.
And we still do now, which is great.
But I finally got to the point where this is all nice and everything, but it feels fake.

(01:42):
So I wanted it to feel more real.
So that's why I ultimately played into my decision to come out.
So you said that turning 60 changed something in you and that had to deal with, you said it felt fake?
It felt fake.

(02:04):
Just the whole environment at home, like when we would have friends over, we'd all be having a great time talking to each other.
And even when I was home with my wife and the two of us were sitting outside by the pool, it just didn't feel real anymore.
There was something missing. I couldn't quite put my finger on it.
But the, the, then when I turned 60, I took a long camping weekend by myself.

(02:32):
And I did, did a lot of soul searching while I was there.
And finally came, came to the conclusion that it isn't, it's now or never.
You know, it's time to, to put up or shut up so to speak.
So what did you go through when you went through that work with yourself on that camping trip?
I assume sitting out there looking at the stars and the vastness of the universe.

(02:56):
Yes, that was about it, drinking a lot of beer.
It just, it went through my whole life.
And there's, there's not much at all that I would change.
If, if I could have done anything differently, I might have done this 10 years ago.

(03:20):
But, but I'm glad that I did what I did because I have two beautiful children and three beautiful granddaughters and my beautiful wife is still a good friend of mine.
So, yeah.
So, but I, I just wanted, I wanted to feel more authentic, basically.

(03:43):
After we had moved from Houston, I'm sorry, we moved from Wisconsin to Houston.
I had two good, really good friends down here that are lesbians.
And one of them I work with, we work for the same company.
And so we would go down and hang out with them because they lived in in Montrose, which is the predominantly gay section of Houston.

(04:11):
And so we would go down with them and we'd go out and we'd go to the bars and go to all the gay bars.
And I remember the first time I walked into this one bar that we frequented.
I walked in the door and I looked around and I remember thinking, this is my home and these are my people.
And it shocked me that that just thought just popped into my head like that.

(04:36):
It was really surprising.
But even then it was, it was a few more years after that before I came out.
So what came to you from taking, what came to you from acting on that after having that feeling?
Fear.
Fear of, that's it.

(04:58):
It was destroying the life that we had built together. Fear of losing my friends. Fear of losing contact with my children and my spouse.
It just, it was just, let's see.
It was, I was very afraid.

(05:19):
I was very afraid of what might change that even things that I hadn't even thought about.
That had changed.
Fear of the unknown.
Fear of the unknown. What am I going to do? Okay. I'm going to come out. What am I going to do?
Where am I going to live?
Where am I going to be? Am I still going to have my job or will I lose my job?

(05:45):
Just everything like that, everything like that.
It was, it was a, it was a very tumultuous period.
So how long did that take place from that feeling to where you actually went on your camping trip?
Probably. I would say at least four years.

(06:08):
No, at least four years.
So you went on the camping trip. You spent this time with yourself under the stars processing what was in your mind.
You had this four year gap from the realization in the bar to the trip.
When you got home from the camping trip, what did you do?
I didn't do anything right away.
I was kind of a little bit numb from, because I had made up my mind.

(06:35):
I knew that I was going to do it, but I wanted to wait for the right time to do it.
And I guess in hindsight, there's never really a right time to say anything like that two years,
false of 37 years.
And one night we were in the, for one of the reason we were lying on the living room floor watching a movie in front of the fireplace.

(07:01):
And I just started crying.
And, and then she just looked at me and she's like, what's going on?
And I just told her I said, I have something that I have to tell you.
And I'm, I'm gay.
And the very first words that she said to me was, it's about time I admitted it.

(07:25):
So she had known or at least suspected for a very long time.
Yeah. Yeah.
So did she tell you why she expected that?
If she did, I don't remember what she said.
Because by that time we're both bawling like babies, you know, because, because we're at the realization that this is going to change everything about our lives.

(07:54):
So I guess I don't remember what she said after that.
But one thing that she did do, and I look at this as the greatest gift that she could have ever given me is she said, I'm going to move back to Wisconsin.

(08:18):
And her folks are still there, her friends are still there. And because she said that if she was in Houston, that I would not really be able to be myself if she was still in wrong.
And I, I really do.
I think that's the best gift anybody could have ever given me the freedom, the freedom to be myself and not worry about.

(08:45):
You know, because if she was right, she was right, I would have been constantly fearful of what she might be thinking.
So it was fantastic, actually.
After that conversation where she said it's about time, how long until she relocated?
Not long at all. I think it was like maybe six weeks tops. She had called up to the hospital where she had worked before we moved down to here to Houston.

(09:18):
And by luck, they had her old job was open at the time. So she she talked to the people up there and actually got her old job back exactly the same one that she left before when we moved down here.
So so that part worked out really great.
We did a, I do it yourself divorce because we were in agreement on almost everything. So which was, which was great.

(09:47):
We didn't waste a lot of money on lawyers and bickering back and forth and all that sort of thing.
My friends tell me that I gave up too much out of guilt and they may very well be right. I don't know, but I don't regret it. I would do it again.
I would do it again. So yeah, yeah, you have to be a piece with yourself in a regard of what friends say.

(10:12):
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
So her major response was to move to Wisconsin. There was nothing really else that came out of her.
Nothing real nothing else at all really. No, no. So you two had children together. Yes.
My, our son is 36 and our daughter is 34. I have three granddaughters ages 75 and two months.

(10:44):
Maybe not even two months. She was born. So how did the kids take it when you came out as gay and then your, their mother then moves to Wisconsin?
My daughter was more upset at her mother than, than she was at me because she felt, my daughter felt like my ex her mother was abandoning me by and leaving me behind.

(11:13):
And she wasn't happy about that at all. And it took her a long time to come to grips with that.
And I kept telling her I said, no, it's, we both agreed on this that this is the, the right thing to do for, for all of us.
So our son took, took him quite a while to come to grips with my new sexuality.

(11:39):
Even though I, my told him I said, I'm still the same dad you had yesterday. Nothing's changed that way.
So I still love you just as much as before. So he's, he's, it took him a while to come around, but I knew that it would for him.
I knew it would take him longer. So I didn't panic. I didn't fret or anything like that. I just, I gave him his space.

(12:03):
Because I knew that spot he needed. And he has, he has come around. He has come around. No. And it's, it's really great.
It sounds like you have a good relationship with your former spouse and a good relationship with your children.
Yes. Yes. Some of the fears I assume you had didn't come to fruition over time.
Not, not much at all. No, they didn't. They didn't. And so then, so then I was like, well, why, you know, what was I waiting for?

(12:30):
You know, if I would have suspected that it would, everything would have turned out as well as it did.
Like I said, I probably would have done it 10 years ago.
As a life coach, I'm committed to help you discover the passions in your life and help you map a course to achieve the things you really want.

(12:58):
Together we will unwind those persistent self-doubt that are holding you back. You'll begin to see your passions more clearly and set achievable goals.
Throughout your journey, I'll be there to challenge and encourage you in moving forward to discover your authentic self.
For more information about my personal life coaching services, or to arrange a complimentary consultation, visit davidcottoncoaching.com.

(13:24):
You're listening to Outlate with David.
So let's go back to your childhood. And you remember ever having like same sex attraction at an early age?
Very much so. I even going back to middle school like seventh grade. I started noticing that I was attracted to all the boys.

(13:58):
And the girls were nice to have as friends, but that was it.
I didn't look at girls the same way that I looked at the boys. And that scared me even more back then.
Because this is small town Midwest Wisconsin. Everybody goes to the same church. Everybody knows everybody.

(14:22):
And so you told the line, you don't do radical stuff like that back. So it was I probably would have been run out of town.
Were there other other gay individuals you're aware of when you're going to school in your town?
None. But I'm aware of it all.

(14:46):
After a while in high school, there were a couple of friends that I had that they didn't really come home, but they didn't.
They stopped trying to hide it. So they just they just started being themselves. That was all that's what they did.
So how did your community react homosexuality or even your own views of homosexuality as you're growing up?

(15:12):
Well, it was very very religious town. My hometown had a population of 360.
So I mean, a small and yeah.
So I was probably related to at least half of them. It would not have gone over well at all.
I believe that there would have been a lot of anger, a lot of hurt feelings, a lot of upset.

(15:46):
Just a lot of people would have been upset.
What do you think they might have been upset? Just just because I did something so radical.
This was been 1978, 79 somewhere in there. And so it was a different world back then.
Was there a strong religious presence in your community at all?

(16:09):
Yeah. Yeah. I was in the church choir. I talked Sunday school. I taught the little kids in Sunday school.
So it was a variable, but just very religious town.
So it sounds like it's just society and social norms. I was the time.
There's what kept things inside you. You had the realization was like, I'm not going to do anything with that.

(16:30):
I'm going to just kind of keep it in my head.
Yeah. My biggest fear was my father.
Oh, my father. I sure would not have taken it well at all.
And I think even now when I did come up, I'm almost certain you rolled over in this grave.

(16:52):
So that's the way I feel.
Because he was a very, very firm person.
He had his beliefs. He went to church every Sunday.
He was very strong-willed and very opinionated too.
And he didn't care who agreed with him or who didn't agree with him.

(17:16):
So if he had an opinion, he was going to express it.
With these thoughts in your head, did you ever visualize some point in your future where you'd be out and living as a gay man?
And that's something you could accept.
I would have never dreamt of it. I would have never dreamt of it at all.
If somebody would have told me five years ago where I am right now, I would have not believed them.

(17:44):
I would have called them a liar.
Because my life has everything in my life has changed.
Absolutely everything.
So for the better, I think.
What are those other pieces that have changed besides your marriage?
Of course, she went back to Wisconsin. I stayed behind here in Houston.

(18:09):
So we could sell the house.
So you were married.
And before you said it was interesting, I think, to have girls around.
But you obviously met your wife and decided to marry her.
How did that happen to actually, you know, your experiences with women if you had these thoughts in your head as you were moving forward.
I had the thoughts in my head, but I totally ignored them.

(18:31):
I totally ignored them. I buried them.
And they stayed buried for a long time.
Very long time.
But we had, we met through mutual friends introduced us at a Halloween party, actually.
So that was kind of fun. And we had a really close-knit group of friends.

(18:57):
And being my wife were friends with everybody else in the group.
So it was just kind of natural.
Everybody else was getting married.
So we just kind of followed along and everybody else's footsteps.
So at least that's the way I felt about it.
I don't know how she felt about it.
But if she felt the same way or not, I don't know.

(19:21):
Do you ever regret living your, leaving your old life and coming up?
Sometimes I do.
Not very often though.
Because I was happy.
I mean, everything was fake, but I was happy with it.
So I wasn't disgruntled.
I wasn't miserable.

(19:42):
I was perfectly, I was content.
That's it. That's, I was very content.
So how would you describe in your current life, in terms of happiness?
If you had to put it on a scale from one to 10 where this is really bad and 10, it's fantastic.
Where do you feel like you're on that one to 10 scale?
I'm probably a good solid aid right now.

(20:04):
There were some days after I first came out, of course, that were very rough.
And I questioned, you know, why did I do this? Why did I throw everything away?
But then, and I saw counseling, of course.
And one thing the counselor said to me was, well, you didn't throw anything away because it's still there.

(20:26):
It's just the way you look at it now.
It's your perspective.
That's change.
And he's right.
So, so what would make it a nine or a 10 if you're at an eight today?
I could make it a nine or a 10.

(20:47):
Well, maybe it'll make a little bit more money, I guess.
They say money doesn't buy happiness, but, but it's sure else.
I don't know. I am, I am quite, quite happy right now.
I think, I think, and I think an eight is fantastic.
So you said you wanted to be more authentic.

(21:10):
What does it mean for you to be authentic as a, as a gay man?
I, I don't have to worry as much about my actions and my, my speech.
I mean, I'm not, not a flame boy and gay at all.

(21:31):
But I did worry a lot about how I carried myself.
And now I don't have to worry about that at all.
I can be open and honest.
And one of the first times that it, that really started to hit home is I was down by the pool here.
And I was reading a book, the other rage.

(21:56):
And there was this other couple who I didn't know that were down there.
And the woman asked what I was reading.
And so I told her about it.
And so then the husband said, "Ponently, are you gay?"
And it gave me pause because nobody had really asked me that question before.

(22:17):
And I'm like, "Yes, I am."
And it felt good to say that.
And I mean, I'm still apprehensive sometimes, but it felt good to say that.
It felt good to be honest, not only with myself, but with everybody else.
I'm not pretending anymore.

(22:38):
I am who I am.
So that's another thing that has changed also since since coming out.
I used to be very fearful that someone would not like me for whatever reason.
I always wanted people to like me.
Now, I still worry about it a little bit, but I don't really care.

(23:00):
If I do something that somebody doesn't like me, "Oh, that's their problem."
I'm not mine.
I'm not agreeable.
So as we get to the close to the end here, what advice would you have for married men like you,
who they're struggling with or dreaming of coming out of the closet,
but they don't have the courage to do that?
What advice might you have for them as they would be there?

(23:22):
They need to go to counseling because that makes all the difference in the world.
I'm part of a Facebook group that is becoming more and more popular among gay dads.
There's a couple of guys that I'm talking to in that group that are in that situation.

(23:47):
They're not out yet, and they don't know what to do and they're afraid of taking those next steps.
So we talked privately, usually just texting, but I just give them as much encouragement as I can.
But I don't want to pressure them either because that's never a good thing.

(24:11):
They need to make the decision on their own time at their own pace.
The one thing that I tell everybody is when they say something on this Facebook group about this problem or that problem,
baby steps, baby steps.
Don't try and do any of this too quickly because this is a very deep, very emotional thing.

(24:39):
You can't do it too quickly.
You have to take your time.
Have to take your time with that.
Indeed.
Indeed.
That's good advice.
That's good advice.
Well, Bill Schroder, thank you for joining us today and sharing your story.
As you know, as the group that you're in, hearing someone else's stories is very helpful and encourage and comforting.

(25:01):
And no doubt, someone will hear your story and feel better in their life and where they are today.
[Music]

(25:27):
34 years of marriage is a long time and it takes courage to finally share your truth with someone you've shared so much of your life with.
The holidays, birthdays, school recitals, soccer games, all the things a family does together in support of each other.
Before you know it, you're looking back at those wonderful memories and a secret that just could not be revealed.

(25:50):
But as Bill proves, it's a secret we're sharing but it does take time.
With some luck, your relationship may be stronger, your life may be richer and maybe richer than you ever imagined.
Bill says he is much more comfortable in his life, not worrying what someone else thinks about him. He's more at ease and at peace with himself.
Thank you, Bill, for showing us that it's never too late to be who you really are.

(26:14):
I'm David Cotton. Join us next time for Outlate with David.
[Music]

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Bill Schroeder - Living Authentically at 60

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