Brian Janes - came out after 26 years of marriage, now finding his place in his new community - Out Late With David

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Watch the video version of this podcast at outlaidwithdavid.com

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Hi, I'm David Cotton. I'm a father, a brother, a son. I'm a retired U.S. Air Force
Brigadier General, a former senior executive in the Department of Defense, a corporate
vice president, and now a life coach. At the age 59, I told my wife, my kids, and the

(00:27):
world, I'm gay. Join me, as I talk with others, who've made this coming out journey
late in life to become who they really are.
You're listening to Outlaidwithdavid.
My guest today is a successful real estate broker who came out at age 49 after 26 years

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of marriage. While he always knew he was attracted to men, he lumped his wife in all that marriage
provided. But now divorced, he's openly gay, and hosts a podcast from in coming out later
in life. Joining me from his home in Los Angeles is Brian James.
Welcome, Brian. Thank you so much for having me, David.
It's a pleasure. Congratulations on the new podcast coming inside out. I want to talk

(01:15):
to you about that, but first, I want to get into your story. As I understand, you came
out 2019 after 26 years of marriage. You love being married. What was you like so much
about married life?
I loved the relationship that I had with my wife. I loved the connection. I loved everything

(01:37):
about it. I think that I made family-oriented man that was trapped in a gay body. I miss
it. That's, I mean, my heart misses my old life. I was well adapted to being a married

(01:59):
man and having kids. But deep down inside, I had a sexual desire that was didn't match
up with my wife.
How did you resolve that then when you met her as whom fell in love and started that relationship?
My wife and I met in school. We actually met in sixth grade, but we didn't become friends

(02:21):
until junior high school. We didn't start dating until we were 20. We had a long connection
with each other. We just had an amazing friendship and that friendship evolved into a sexual relationship.

(02:42):
So what brought you to not being close together when you eventually divorced?
My, my wife is a much healthier person than I am. Spiritually, emotionally, she's just
a more grounded person. She'd have this demon in the back of her head screaming at her
all the time that you're gay. Obviously, I had that. So she was on a healthier path than

(03:10):
I was. She had given me years and years and years of opportunities to read self-health books,
go to therapy, get coaching, all of this stuff to make myself a better person. And she
was a hundred percent in on that. And I was maybe twenty percent in on that. So they just
came up point in our relationship where she was on a, I don't know, just a different path

(03:37):
than I was. And she was tired of my shit. So she basically told me, I love you. I'm no longer
in love with you. I want the divorce. So you were aware that you're gay during this whole
time from when she was encouraging you to see therapy and coaching? Yes. Yes. I, yes. I,
I knew I was gay as a child. So knowing that as a child and entering

(04:00):
the life, how did you push it back or why didn't you embrace that gay part and just go
out in the world and be an out gay man? I didn't know how. You know, but this is all going back
to the 1980s, while I was in high school, knowing my sexual desires and your fantasies that I was
having at the time. I didn't know a single gay person. My parents didn't really talk about

(04:26):
sexuality. And I thought it was taboo. I, I was not brought up in a religious home. I thought
this was something that I was going to grow. I thought, okay, at some point in time these feelings
are going to go away. My wife and I are going to start dating and they're going to go away. We're
going to get married and they're going to go away. Children are going to go away. And that demon

(04:49):
chased me my entire life. I spent a lot of time in therapy. Always having an excuse of what was
going on when deep down inside what was going on as I was, you know, trying to snuff out my sexual
orientation, not my orange, but just who I was as person. Did you expose that to the therapist?

(05:13):
What's your real issues? Where were you aware? No, I knew 100% what my issues were. No. It was a secret
that I was going to take to my grave. Why is that? Because I was so invested, I put so much of my

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life into being this heterosexual partner and husband that I was all in and I was not going to
alter from this what I had set out. Did you have kids in the relationship? I do. I have two boys. I have

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a 21 year old and an 18 year old. Had you explored any of your sexuality while you were still married?
You know, gone on never the man nothing. I never had an experience with another man until I was 50
years old after my divorce. After my separation, after my separation before my divorce. Since you

(06:15):
kept this inside, hadn't experimented. Yes. Newed your thought. Were you afraid what other people would
think of you or how society would act or your friends, family, workmates? I would have never done it.
It would have ended my marriage to my wife and I would have never come out. It wasn't in the cards.

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I wasn't quite a cheat. I wasn't online. I wasn't seeking anything out. I was really walking through
life with blinders on. So it wasn't an option. So I didn't even think about telling another person
because it would have ended my marriage. It sounds like the divorce or the separation was taking

(07:00):
the blinders off. It allowed you then to acknowledge to yourself who you really are. Early on,
when I thought, okay, you know, at seven point in time, I'm going to heal from this and I'm going
to want to start dating again. And I actually thought I was going to date a woman. I wasn't going to
date a woman. I was going to date a woman. I was going to keep my secret buried. I was not going to

(07:29):
come out. I had no intention to come out. I had designed my life as a heterosexual man, even though
I wasn't. What were you fearing that you would give up and I'm judging that you'd fear something,
fearing that you'd give up if you came out as a non heterosexual man, even after you're separated
and going on a new path? I was so conditioned to who I was that when the opportunity

(07:55):
presented itself, it wasn't an option. I was walking my dog during, well, it was during COVID. I was
walking my dog during COVID and I said to myself, I'm like, okay, Brian, you are going to be honest
with yourself right now. You're going to be honest with yourself. Would you want to date another

(08:18):
woman or would you want to date a man? And I said to myself on that walk, I would want to date a man.
I wouldn't want to date a woman. In that very moment, I made the decision, okay, Brian, you've just
revealed what your desire is and I made the decision on that walk. Okay, so I'm going to be gay

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and that was what I had wanted my entire life. I reached out to a therapist that I had
during the course of my divorce and I'm like, listen, I mean, tell you something and I told her I was
gay and that I wanted to set up a plan to come out. You were considering dating women,

(09:02):
but something happened. What was that something that happened that had you shift and how did that feel
in your body and mind when that shift occurred? When that thought occurred to me, I was like, oh my god,
this is what's been missing from your life, Brian. I feel like I worked so hard for everything that I've

(09:25):
ever accomplished and I was always felt like I was blooding up against something. I was like, why is
this so hard? Why is this so hard? Okay, this is it. Now I'm going to be in the flow of life. Oh my god,
my life is just going to just flow because for the first time in my life, I'm being true to myself,
you know, being my authentic Brian. And it allowed me to like start journaling. It put me on a path.

(09:51):
I've discovery for myself, which was amazing. But I was naive because I thought in that very moment,
I'm making a decision and all of a sudden, all of this pain and heartache and struggle and suffering
and darkness that occurred in my life was just going to vanish and I'm going to announce to the
world that I'm gay and I'm just going to be the most happy, light, joyful, you know, fun person.

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That hasn't happened yet. You're listening to Out Late with David.
One of my favorite songs is called "Older Sun By Ben Platt". The song was comforting to me in my
journey of self-discovery and acceptance. The line in the refrain, don't let your wonder turn into
closure, can be especially powerful for someone coming at his gay. It suggests the curiosity and

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openness we have about who we are should never be shut down by fear or settling for what feels easier.
Coming out is often about embracing the unknown, wondering what life could look like if we live
authentically. This line is a reminder to stay curious, to keep exploring and not close yourself
off from the possibilities of your true self, even if it's hard or uncomfortable. It encourages

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people not to put a lid on their identity out of fear, but instead to keep moving towards
self-discovery and fulfillment. So take the advice of the song and don't let your wonder turn into
closure. I can understand the power of change, having been through that myself where
I was in a hotel room on a business trip in Orlando and looked in the mirror.

(11:30):
I realized David got in your game and it's similar to walking your dog, it just hit me out of the blue
where I had had all this depression and stress and didn't know really what the root of it was,
but knew there was something inside of me. I know when I said it for myself, they just released
that tension. Yes, it brought others in a different way as you probably

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knew. The knowledge and be aware of as well. But it was the beginning for me, I know for my road
to transformation just by that self acceptance, which is the first step, talking to a lot of guys
adventure, that's kind of the first major step, like walking the dog and saying, "Oh yeah, there's
something I need to do here and shift a bit if I want to go forward in a more long term joyful way.

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I mean, that being immediate joyful, but we see the potential for joyful." And it doesn't dishonor
the past and disregard the place because we still love it and cared and grew and nurtured the people in
our lives and we made decisions about ourselves for their benefit, not necessarily our benefit,
through their benefit by keeping things suppressed and closeted inside. Yes. My life wasn't alive.

(12:43):
My life wasn't alive. No, my ex had asked me that. She's like, "What's this whole thing alive?" I'm like,
"Actually not. I loved my wife and if someone said to me today, "Brian, if you can go back and do this
all over again, would you do it differently?" And I said, "I wouldn't. I have my kids. I have my children.
I put thers... like thers... thers not any part of me that wouldn't go back and change. I

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became a much better person. I became a more grounded person. I became a more... a very humbled person.
I 100% believe I became a much better father to my children at that time. It took so much

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dress off of me. I was so anxious walking around with that secret for so long. And when I made the
decision that I was going to come out and I told my therapist, it probably was less than two months.
It may have been six weeks between the time I told her I was going to do it and the time I

(13:57):
confessed who I was. And when I actually came out, it was a very short period of time. Did you go back
to your wife? Now you're separated from your wife? I assume at this time. Yes. Did you come out to
her? And how did she react to all that? I met her at Starbucks. I got into her car and I said,

(14:18):
"Listen, I have something I need to share with you because after I talk to you about this,
I'm going to go home and I'm going to tell our kids." So I said, "Listen, what I need to tell you,
I'm just going to come right out and say it. At some point in time, I'm going to start dating again.
And when I start dating again, I'm going to date a man. I'm not going to date a woman.

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And I'm going to go home and I'm going to miss you with our children. And in the moment, she took
it really well. She said she was shocked. She was not what, you know, I don't know what she thought I
was wanting to talk to her about, but she's like, "Oh my God, I never thought this is what you

(15:02):
wanted to talk to me about. Have I never come out?" And a year later, my wife said to me,
"I made a mistake, would you be interested in getting back together?" I would have gone back to
her. I would have happily never come out of the closet and gotten back together. But my coming out,
she's too healthy for that and I wouldn't want that for myself anyways. So I wrote her a letter of love

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and just I think she appreciated it because it was one of the first times in our marriage where I
showed my vulnerability to her that I had not really shown. I showed a lot of irritation, frustration

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in our relationship. I didn't show a lot of emotional intelligence. Was that frustration or irritation
that you showed her? Do you think in retrospect it was linked and tied to you hiding and suppressing
your sexuality? One hundred percent. I lived in fear. I lived in fear that I was going to be found out.

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Someone was going to know I was gay. You know, people have gay-dar. If I ever met a gay person and
we were at a party in our 30s or 40s, I was always worried, "Oh, this person has gay-dar and they're
going to find me out." No. Expose me. So yes, it was that and sexually, and I had fantasies about wanting

(16:39):
to be with them. So it was just the suppression. So when you went back home after the Starbucks conversation
and talked to the guests, how did they react to that? So my kids at the time were probably 16
and 14. I pretty much told them, "I've just met your mom at Starbucks. I told her something that I'm

(17:05):
going to share with you. And I had them sit across me on the couch and I told them. I said, "Listen,
when I decide to get into another relationship or start dating, I'm going to date a man, not a woman."
And my older son at the time, 16, said, "Welcome to the club." And I said, "Welcome to the club."

(17:27):
Yeah, I said, "Does that mean that you're gay or you're telling me that you're gay?" And he said, "Yes."
So he came out to me in the same conversation, came out to him. And that's all.
In the power of vulnerability, parents show their vulnerable, or show you that your vulnerable
somebody else, and it's amazing how it can take place. It's usually beautiful. So Dave told her,

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your ex-wife, you've told the kids. So now you are in a new world. So what's it been like exploring
that new world? So this all happened during COVID. This all was in July of 2020. I sat with that
for about a week, and then I told pretty much if you know me, and I wanted you to know me over a three-day

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period, I told everybody. I told my coworkers, told my family, I told my friends, I golf, I told my
golf buddies, I came out to everybody. So I did it 100%. In the beginning, because my son had just come
out to me at the same time, I went online, I bought a pride stuff, a rainbow shirts, and socks,

(18:41):
and all kinds of stuff. He wasn't there to do that. And I felt like for the first time of my life,
I wanted to advertise who I was. Here I'm 50 at the time. So this is July. I had already turned 51.
But 51-year-old man, nobody's ever known that I was gay. My entire life, I want people who know that I'm

(19:01):
gay. So I had a period of time. I didn't have a slutty face, which I like I tab. So I think I just had more of
I was liberating myself and I was like, "Here I am world, I'm a proud gay man." So since that day, I have never
been ashamed of my sexuality of who I am. If someone was to ask me, you know, I'm proud to be me.

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But didn't you have that gay adolescence where you went out there and party party party?
No, it happened during COVID part of it and then part of it just wasn't my it was not my scene.
That's your jam, who I was a person. Okay. Are there any things that you did along the way that
you regret that you do differently today? Coming out? In this whole process of self discovery and

(19:56):
coming out? I would have treated myself better. I know what that looked like to treat yourself better.
I just would have been kinder to myself. I have not been kind to myself as a process. I've been

(20:22):
pretty hard on myself. I've always been hard on myself because I've always wanted, I've said a
standard for myself. So I just I feel like I have abused myself more emotionally than anything else.

(20:44):
But definitely, you know, I probably have been more depressed since I came out and I've been my entire
life. So what do you think is the root of that? I think I'm lonely. I think it's loneliness. I think,
30 years with my wife, we have verbal communication, but our bodies also vibrate off of each other

(21:12):
and living with her, you know, my body is talking to her even when we're not speaking.
And when we separated, it was that vibration was severed. I feel like my body was still
sending out a vibration and getting nothing in return. And it just made my soul. She all really

(21:38):
lonely. And for the first time, because I didn't have, you know, I didn't, I had never experienced that
warm of loneliness before. So to experience that was pretty heavy and new for me.
As a life coach, I'm committed to help you discover the passions in your life and help you map

(22:02):
a course to achieve the things you really want. Together we will unwind those persistent self-doubt
that are holding you back. You'll begin to see your passions more clearly and set achievable goals.
Throughout your journey, I'll be there to challenge and encourage you in moving forward to
discover your authentic self. For more information about my personal life coaching services,

(22:26):
or to arrange a complimentary consultation, visit davidcottoncoaching.com.
You're listening to OutLate with David.
So where do you see yourself in the future, like jump five years ahead? What would you like,
where would you like to be, you know, in your life? And I would like to be happier than I am today.

(22:51):
I'd like to be more skilled than I am today. I understand that all of that comes from within and it's
something that's going to happen to me on the exterior. I just haven't, I don't know, I haven't
really gotten over. I thought I was going to die being married to my wife and so to be, you know,

(23:18):
in this townhouse and not have my wake up to my kids every day and just, you know, have 50% of my
life being alone. It's difficult. The lonely, are the silence screaming at times.

(23:38):
How it feels. I would guess I would, from what I've heard and learned in our time together,
short time is that you have taken charge of responsibility for your life. You've acknowledged who you are
on your walk with your dog. You took action. You embraced it. It brought you joy of being able to

(24:01):
be open and honest about yourself. And you have tremendous opportunity based on this without the
stress of keeping everything suppressed. So my ask of you would be, don't forget to acknowledge
yourself for all that you've been through and the strength and the courage that you demonstrated.

(24:24):
Do you regret coming out at all? I don't. Now at one other percent, I do not. If I had a regret,
it would have been it by after my divorce if I had actually pursued a relationship with a woman.
That would have been a regret. I don't have a regret coming out. I love being an out-game man.

(24:48):
I actually love it. That's good. That's good. Yeah. So at first step of going forward, you know what you
want. Yes. And so that's good. The stones are stable as you walk down the path. So that's fantastic.
So then let's talk about your podcast coming inside out. The Chico host with the fellow friend.
Yes. Tell us about the show and maybe a bit about him is how you guys came together and how that

(25:11):
all is working. I had posted some things about my coming out. I posted the very first time.
I spoke the words out loud on gay. And someone reached out to me and I like, "Hey, listen, I've been
reading all these things that you've been posting. I host a podcast. I'd love to have you as a guest
on my podcast." Oh my god. I'd be honored. So I did this podcast back in 2021. And I had such so many

(25:40):
amazing people reach out to me and just give me so much love. They had been through the same struggle
or they were struggling with it. And then I went to dinner with my gay father's group. There were eight
of us and we're sitting around this table in a restaurant. I was just talking and sharing. And these
are all men that were married. They have kids. They're old divorced and come out as gay. And John,

(26:04):
who's big personalities, like, "Oh my god, guys, this should be a podcast. A podcast. Maybe that's
what I should do." So I kind of put together a very loose outline and I asked John if he wanted to go
to lunch and we met for lunch. Like, "Hey, listen, you brought this up. These are all these things that

(26:24):
have been happening to me over the last couple of years. And I would like to do a podcast. Would you
be interested in doing a podcast with me?" It was like, "Absolutely." So we know nothing about
casting. I never really listened to podcast before other than the one I was on. I went out. I bought
some equipment. I watched a YouTube videos. We got our camera. Got the equipment. Hit the

(26:50):
record button and just it's been very raw. The men that have reached out to us that have written to us
through this podcast, it breaks my heart because there's so much to hang out there that feel alone.
Which that's why I do this podcast as well to reach out and help those that are afraid

(27:14):
in the dark. Don't know where to go. They think that there's one of a kind. You're not. We're all out
here. So I know. So yes. So I would say thank you for doing that and having the courage to do that.
And it sounds like the universe was speaking to you as it did to me. And that's why we're in this
space today. Yeah. And I'm not doing it for myself. I actually think this is part of the bitter

(27:37):
sweet. If I lived the life that I lived, learned the lessons that I learned to become the person I am
today. It happened for a reason. Like I said, I didn't have to happen through me. And if any
goods going to come out of it, this podcast or me sharing this is the good that's coming out of this.

(27:59):
So based on what you've been through then, kind of the final question here. All right. Brian,
what advice might you have to other married men who are struggling with the decision to accept
you they are and come out to their spouse? That is such a loaded question, David. Only big errors,
you know, what works for me is not what's going to work for somebody else. Nobody could have ever

(28:24):
talked to me out of the closet when I was in the closet. And even though I feel like I was such a sub...
I'm not the person I was five years ago. And I was so suppressed. I would didn't share,
emotionally disconnected for myself. To be the person I am today, it's like, this is the joy

(28:47):
that's on the other side. I was this stagnant person for my entire life that my kids didn't really
enjoy. My wife didn't enjoy. To be the person I am today, it's like, light and day. I was in the closet
and now I'm almost in the box about being gay. And my life could not be any different. So anybody who's

(29:12):
struggling that may be thinking that there's nothing for them on the other side might, but I would say
that that is... I thought that also, and I've created this amazing, rich life on the other side as an

(29:32):
outgain, proud, father, man. If I would have never been able to experience before,
the friendships I have today are so much richer than friendships I ever had in my past.
I'm able to be one out of sight me. I'm completely vulnerable and completely transparent. So

(29:55):
that's what this is given to me. Given me, life.
Well, thank you, Brian. And thank you for being vulnerable and sharing your story. And as I think
we've said a couple times, the power of vulnerability. By being vulnerable, we help someone else,
such as you during your show and this show. We know that there's someone out there that will

(30:17):
hear today's discussion. And it'll be fortified today. To take whatever step they feel is
necessary in their life. So thank you for your time today. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.
Brian fully admits that his anger and frustration during his marriage was tied to the fact he was
hiding his authentic self. He wasn't being the man he wanted to be and his relationship suffered for it.

(30:43):
For Brian, marriage and family was the dream and holding on to the life he loves so much took
priority over his need to be himself. Our desire to live a life that is acceptable to others is powerful
and in some cases can overwhelm the need to be who we are. Brian's one regret is that he was too

(31:03):
hard on himself and I agree. Most of us coming out later in life share similar regrets, but like
Brian, we need to forgive ourselves and finally allow others to love the man we have become.
I'm David Cotton. Thanks for listening. Drummer next time on OutLate with David.
To hear more episodes, visit OutLatewithDavid.com and to learn more about personal life coaching

(31:29):
services go to DavidCottonCoaching.com.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Brian Janes - came out after 26 years of marriage, now finding his place in his new community