David Nygaard - divorce, heart attack, bankruptcy…a journey of resilience - Out Late With David

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Watch the video version of this podcast at OutLate with David.com.

(00:07):
Hi, I'm David Cotton.
I'm a father, a brother, a son.
I'm a retired U.S. Air Force Brigadier General, a former senior executive in the Department
of Defense, a corporate vice president, and now a life coach.
At the age 59, I told my wife, my kids, and the world, I'm gay.

(00:32):
Join me, as I talk with others, who've made this coming out journey late in life, to become who they really are.
You're listening to OutLate with David.
My guest today was once a conservative Christian evangelical leader, a respected bitches man, and a married father of six, while living deep in the closet.

(00:57):
Over the years, we've survived a bankruptcy, a messy divorce, and a massive part attack before coming out publicly as a gay man.
Join me from his home and Virginia, David Nygaard.
Well, David, welcome.
Thanks so much for having me.

(01:19):
Glad you're here today.
Looking at your background, your story reads like, "A soap opera comes to mind," and I wanted to get all the twists and turns.
But first, I want to start with, when you first knew your gay, how old were you, how did you know?
Well, you know, I think most of us have a similar story.
We grew up in an age where it was both illegal and a mental illness to be gay.

(01:44):
So I think we tended to kind of run away from those feelings.
But I mean, I remember always being -- and it wasn't necessarily suchly attracted, but I think always had kind of an affinity or attraction to guys really what I was very young, probably six, seven, eight.

(02:05):
And so I think -- but of course, you don't have a word for it, and you don't really know what that is. And so I think we all have that.
And that as we get older, we -- and mature, we begin to get a warm understanding of what that is.
But we still often don't have the language to put with it, I think.

(02:26):
How did you recognize that attraction at that early age?
Oh, just -- gosh, I don't know. I guess I just remember watching TV shows.
And I was thinking that would be cool to be in that TV show, whether it was Courtship of Eddie's father or a member of a man from Uncle, or some of those types of shows.

(02:48):
And you think, "Oh, that'd be kind of cool to be in that kind of environment as a kid."
And I think you kind of had that when you're younger, but you don't really understand it. And that as you get older, you know, when you get into the puberty, you begin to recognize,
"Oh, maybe I'm being turned on by this. Maybe I'm attracted to this to guys."

(03:14):
And so I think that's when the kind of awakening comes in. And again, in art generation, we didn't really have words for a lot of it.
Other than just a great deal of negative connotation.
Did it change your behavior? Are you active as a youth?
I think for me, I tended to kind of run away from it and just kind of suppress it and ignore it.

(03:38):
So no, I didn't really change my behavior. For instance, I would go out on dates with girls in high school.
And so I hug around my guy friends and we had a good time. And so it didn't really change my behavior so much.
But it was just something that we, I was pretty normal teenager, I think.

(04:04):
I know for me, I put on what I could say as a three-foot mask that developed over time and just kept building up layers.
And so I did that to where, once I came out and realized that I built that protective layer out there to keep myself small in some ways.
Yeah, but I didn't know what known from.
Right, I think that's true too. And I would say that you do wear the mask, but I didn't really feel at the time looking back.

(04:29):
I don't think I felt like I was wearing a mask. I felt like I was just trying to figure out who I was in the context of friends and family.
Yeah, I didn't know my mask was there until later on. Because when it came back.
Yeah, I would say the same thing.
So as I understand you grew up in a deeply religious church environment, how did I affect your attitudes about being gay?
So the truth is is that I was not raised in the evangelical community. I was not raised in a deeply religious family.

(04:56):
I turned to my faith. I turned to evangelical Christianity as a way to I think escape. A, the depression, B, the meeting that sense of belonging.
And so my parents were not evangelicals growing up. My dad was an even captain and they were traditional Christians.

(05:22):
They were not even joking. They were not part of the evangelical movement. I got connected to an organization called Campus Proceed when I was in high school and got involved in the even evangelical community through that, through that organization.
How did you think that would round you out or what were you seeking when you were going after that?
I think on the one hand you feel like, okay, I'm going to pray the gay way. And on the other hand, it provides a community of people that you're now part of.

(05:54):
Even though it's very anti homosexual, it's very accepting and and was just kind of a great community to be a part of at that time in my life.
And great establishing great male friendships, if that makes sense. And so I think this idea of of being being gay sometimes we don't have quality male friends when we're kind of quite a co-hiding.

(06:26):
And I guess in that context, it probably gave me the opportunity to have good quality male friendships that were safe.
So then how did you meet your wife and then what was your marriage like?
Well, we were actually very happily married. I met on a blind date. I was working as a director of my church.

(06:47):
And she was a youth director of her church up in Delaware. And her cousins were good friends of mine. And they introduced me to her. We met on a blind date.
We started dating. We went out. We went out in a couple dates. And then we just continued to keep dating and within about a month and a half, two months, I guess about two months we were engaged.

(07:09):
And we were married six months to the day that we met. And I was about 28 years old. So I had been, I had not really had a serious girlfriend or dating relationship until that point.
But in those days within the evangelical community, you tend to not have those relationships, dating relationships because we're all being spiritually holy. If that makes sense.

(07:40):
And so within that community, I did it really well because I hadn't dated. I was a virgin, like I'm married at 28. And we had many great years together in our marriage.
Did you feel that that was the way you had to be to live your life or that you wanted to be?

(08:01):
Well, I think it was both. I felt like I had to be that. And I of course, I wanted to be that because I think in those days again, we are trying to change that orientation, which is not very, we're never very successful right at that.
And so I tried to, and I actually did find a lot of happiness there, a lot of pocket, I think I call them pockets of happiness that we can live in. And so I found a lot of great pockets of happiness, being a husband, having kids, raising those kids.

(08:35):
And for many years, we had a really great relationship. Was it, was I still attracted to guys? Certainly it could be. And I think it'll, again, you just suppress it or you repress it. And then you kind of fall back in line into that bold.

(08:56):
So many of us kind of filled a mold and that were poured into right. And so I feel like I did that at times. And, and, and so I would go back into that mold.
Today I'm recommending a book that could be a game changer for anyone navigating a mixed orientation marriage, where one spouse is straight and one is not.

(09:17):
It's called Is My Husband Gay Straighter Buy by Joe Kort. While the book is written for women, I highly encourage both partners, especially the husband, to read it.
It's not just about finding answers, but about opening a dialogue that often feels too difficult to start.
For the husband, it offers a way to better understand his own feelings and sexuality without shame or judgment.

(09:39):
It's an invitation for both partners to step into vulnerability, explore the truth together, and hopefully kind of path forward, whatever that may look like.
The book can help create a safe space for honesty, which is essential to any healthy relationship. Again, the book is Is My Husband Gay Straighter Buy by Joe Kort.
Now let's return to today's guests, David Nygaard.

(10:02):
Staying in that mold and repressing and depressing, did that, you have the oldest part of your divorce then?
It was more to do with my business than, than really anything else. I don't think it had had, sexuality had really, very little to do with the failure by marriage.
It was, it was really related more to business, more to family, pressures that we had with kids.

(10:27):
Now, what that did for me was it gave me kind of a chance to restart, you know, and kind of a do-over.
In my case, so we go through this divorce and it was very messy. Again, many in our community have dulled this, but it was very messy.
But I found myself out of obligation dating women. And then it kind of dawned on me at one point. I was like, why am I doing this? Why am I going back into the same cycle?

(10:59):
And after all these years, you know, I like guys. And so I, I, and part of this was also just my experience within the church because as a part of the divorce that we went through, you know, our church was very involved in it.
And I thought, you know, all of a sudden I became what I would call a second-class Christian within my church. And, and, and I thought, why am I living my life for, you know, according to other people's expectations?

(11:31):
When they're never going to ultimately accept the fact that I'm divorced to begin with. And, and so I thought, why am I living in this same cycle?
Well, I gave myself permission to start dating guys and, and I gave myself permission to kind of explore that aspect of life. And, and I finally felt authentic and, where I had true connection. I guess I would say a deeper connection.

(11:56):
And, and, and so that's kind of where I, where I kind of landed. So that deeper connection is that something you'd felt before when you were, I felt a, I felt a deep connection, but it wasn't quite like, like falling a little bit of guy. If that, if that makes sense, you know, I, I found myself,
finally, understanding the 1980s love songs, you know, it's like they, does that make sense? It does, it does. You sit down and you go, oh, I couldn't know what that means. And, and so I, so I didn't experience the deep love, but I guess it, it may not have been the, is passion, allow this maybe I could have had, that I realized since, if that makes sense.

(12:41):
So when you give yourself permission to go this different path, was that the first time that you actually had experience with another man? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I, I was on, I think it was match calm and I changed from seeking women to seeking men and, you know, and, and started there. And, so you're facing it up a lot. You changed there. There's what, what's that feel like? What was the feeling at that time?

(13:09):
It was the feeling of no longer living by everybody else's rules, but being, having the freedom to make my own rules. And how did that change your perspective on going forward in your life as you start this new chapter?
Well, as I start the new chapter, I was like, you know, I'm, I'm going to do things differently this time around that I hadn't done before. And so, because, you know, we often don't have the, the opportunity to have a second start in life.

(13:38):
And, I, you know, I had a wonderful opportunity to start all over again from scratch. And, and so I did. I took it. I think a lot of people can look at their circumstances and just kind of be, well, as me.
But I think we have to look at the bright side of these opportunities too. And so you have to, you have to look for the good. I think in everything.

(14:01):
So for the good and that bright side, as you said it, the ultimate bright side to me would be falling in love. Do you have that experience of falling in love on this new path?
Oh, absolutely. Yes. I found, I'd fall in love with my first, my first boyfriend after being single after, you know, being single. Yeah, I fell in love. And now I think a lot of times in our community again and coming out late, we have to learn a lot of things from scratch.

(14:29):
And so I realized I was going to fall into the same traps in terms of emotional manipulation and control with my, with my first boyfriend.
But, but it also was a brand new experience for me. So that first relationship was probably about 18 months. And then, and then after that I was single again and really enjoyed the opportunity to go out and meet a lot of different people.

(14:56):
And, and date and hear stories and, and, and just genuinely connect with other guys that are gay that are going through similar circumstances, someone from older, someone younger, I tended to drift towards more younger guys.
And I don't know if that's because just of my life experience that I, you know, I kind of stopped growing at a certain point. But, but I just genuinely enjoyed those those dating relationships where I could connect with guys, hear their stories.

(15:32):
And then, and then, you know, talk about things and it goes good questions on. So I'm going to ask you how you did to get questions from other guys to say, you know, how do you meet somebody?
Here I am, I've come out, I'm, you know, 50, 60, whatever. There's all these applications and there's bars, shorts. What did you find that works for you that was affected?
Well, I would say that when I was first starting out, I had, I had really quality conversations on some of the old apps that people like,

(16:01):
like Pupu, like, Grider and Scruff and, you know, some of the others and, and, and, and Tinder, I guess. And so I, I, I, I met a lot of people through those. And, but I was, I was genuinely just trying to meet people and understand the stories. And, and I was pretty open about my own story.
And, and so I, I had a lot of good quality cups coffee or grab a beer and, and I had those. Now, when I met, but I think the other thing is is that if you're looking to meet all the time, you often won't find it.

(16:33):
I think when you find yourself at a point where you're content with, with your circumstances where you are, but that's usually when that person will show up in your life.
You know, it's, it's almost like drawing that same energy that you're giving off. And, and so that, I would say that, that for me, my, my successful relationship was the most successful one is when I wasn't looking for it. It just kind of showed up.

(16:59):
I like to tell people you have to date yourself first.
Yeah, I agree.
And, they'll understand yourself first, be comfort with yourself, where you are, figure out what you're looking for, and then try to date others. If you just the other way around, the vibes you're sending out is not necessarily the right.
Yeah, and I think the dating, so much of the dating and what I enjoyed in it is getting to connect with another guy and hearing, hearing their story, getting their perspective, whether I was going to date them or not,

(17:29):
but it was having a relationship with them that wasn't fundamentally about a dating relationship or about, about sex or about anything other than just, hey, we're just getting together, we're talking and we're having that, that, that type of connection.
Yeah, is that your creativity across the team?
There's a lot of, but some many of our relationships, I think, in the gay community have all terrier motives and there's just a lot of, um,

(17:57):
kind of underground things that are trying to, trying to move. And, and I think you just have to get to the point where you're like, I really enjoy people that I want to get to know other people without any, without any other, you know, there doesn't have to be anything.
Yeah, such a parameters and take to it non-earse.
Yeah, exactly. So now let's jump, let's jump to another major piece to your life as I understand it. 2016, I think you called it a Widowmaker Heart Attack.

(18:23):
Yes. How did that change you as well? Because you've now got a big change, I've now I'm gay and now you got the heart of that.
Yeah, so I had only been gay for about a year after that before that.
So 2016, I had, I was playing, I was playing pickleball with a friend and straight friend and was a little winded and I, you know, what do you do when you're winded?

(18:47):
You just playing pickleball, I said, let's get a beer, right? And, um, something I'm feeling great, but I think let's get a beer.
So we drove to the place and I'm feeling my jaw hurt and I'm going, and anyway, and, and, and I get to the, we get to the bar and a restaurant and he says,
"Don't talk to yourself in an art attack." I'm like, "No, I don't want to do that." So I said, "Well, let's, let's not go in yet. Let me just sit outside and, uh, and you see how I can feel, you know, a little bit."

(19:14):
And he, um, he's okay. Then I said, "I really feel sick to my stomach," and he said, "Well, let me, let me drive you to the hospital." I said, "No, just call the ambulance. I don't want to throw up in your car."
Which is a good thing because he called the, he called the, uh, the EMTs and they came and picked me up and I, and I coded in the ambulance and, and didn't realize it and, and, um, you know, passed out and woke up with a guy doing compressions, you know, and, uh,

(19:39):
got to, still didn't realize that I had an arutac at this point, right? I was just, but didn't realize what was going on. And, um, but I had a hundred percent blockage of my, uh, LED, which is called the Widowmaker. And they tell me about 25% of people survive that.
So, well, I'm glad you're here today. Now that just, it was healthy and animated, you know, yeah.

(20:00):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It would have been kind of sad if I had, like, ended in 16 without, you know, but no, I've had some great years since then too.
Brother, my best years, you know, so how did, what, what did it change? What's the best years? What changed to make it the best years after that?
I think, I think for me, it was, um, just learning to live authentically as myself, for myself to, to not live by other people's rules and, and rules to make us happy.

(20:29):
And so I, I found myself, um, deciding that, that I was going to kind of rip, in my case, I wanted to rip the bandaid off.
One of the things for me was, um, so many people knew me through my business and a lot of people knew me.
And so when I would go out to, to dinner, um, I would go out to dinner and people that I would casually see, see what, you know, would stop at a table and say,

(20:53):
"How are you doing?" Well, how's, how's your wife doing having the kids? And, and that's always a difficult conversation to have as you're walking to your table.
And I, and I have to be with my first boyfriend who would give, and live it if I didn't like, stop having a whole coming out story for this guy.
And it was just, but, you know, you, you don't do that in polite company. You don't walk to the table and have his big bombshell.

(21:19):
Oh yeah, do you have an iron divorced and, and, um, this is my new boyfriend and, and, uh, if things are great, you know, it's like, um, you don't have that conversation where you're walking to your table at a, at a high-end restaurant, just don't.
So, um, so I, I determined that I wasn't going to have those conversations anymore and, uh, that I would just rip the band-aid off and, um, and, and, and go into the, the newspaper article. That's, that's kind of why I ended up deciding to do.

(21:53):
As a life coach, I'm committed to help you discover the passions in your life and help you map a course to achieve the things you really want.
Together we will unwind those persistent self-doubt that are holding you back. You'll begin to see your passions more clearly and set achievable goals.
Throughout your journey, I'll be there to challenge and encourage you in moving forward to discover your authentic self. For more information about my personal life coaching services, or to arrange a complimentary consultation, visit davidcottoncoaching.com.

(22:28):
You're listening to Outlate with David.
I had also had kind of a nightmare because I was this evangelical Christian, conservative Republican, um, and active politically in the Republican circles.

(22:51):
So I was the second district, uh, uh, uh, uh, elector for John McCain and it was at the 2008 and 2012, uh, Republican conventions.
And so I, um, I was involved politically and I had this nightmare one morning. My dream was that I had been, I was running for Congress as an openly gay conservative Democrat.

(23:12):
And I, and I was just terrified of that because I was still kind of closet and then I began to realize that if I ever did want to run for Congress, then I would have to run as a conservative openly gay Democrat because you couldn't, you couldn't do that in the Republican party.
And so, so having had that, that, um, having had that nightmare became my dream and I ended up actually doing just that was was running for the, you know, for Congress as an openly gay Democrats.

(23:42):
You know, I, I joke to people, I say, I change teams and I have changed teams, I've changed teams of, hmm, some different ways. If I, you know, I, I changed the parties and I realized, well, if I'm going to become a Democrat, get involved, I've got to play my devil rules.
So I accepted their ruling that they didn't want me on the ballot and I was okay, I'm going to run for city council and I did and I ran and I won and I was the, an am the first openly gay city council member for Virginia Beach history.

(24:12):
I didn't serve the full term because I just, it just, it just became too much with family and, and just, it just got really messy. I just decided to go ahead and go off council and, and at the time I was in a new relationship and, and in a, on hindsight, I'm kind of glad that I gave up the seat on city council because it really allowed me to have a new relationship.

(24:40):
So let's jump quickly back to the kids. Yeah, Dr. about the heart attack and your realization, when did you come out to your children that dad is, you said, switch teams and is gay.
Yeah, so I think my kids might have started to suspect it because I had, I had had a gay roommate who was not a partner of mine, but he was another single dad who was a good friend became a good friend of mine and in many ways, event work.

(25:09):
And, and he was gay. And so I think that they may have suspected as a result of that relationship. And then why I started dating my first boyfriend, I think that's kind of what I finally, you know, expressed to them, hey, this is, this is kind of what's going on.
And how do they react to that when you told them?
They were, they were pretty good. I mean, I don't, they didn't really, they didn't react badly. They, they just kind of took it to stride. I think they had, they had some questions. And so it, it helped them to process kind of how things were going, you know, in my life anyway. And so I think they, it answers some questions for you.

(25:48):
Did you ever have to sit down with your ex-wife to tell her that you were doing?
No, no, I found that it was best to not have any contact. The relationship with my ex-wife was so toxic that it really, it really doesn't let itself to any communication.
And my kids really have slowly been coming back to me, but I don't have, I don't have any contact with my ex-wife at this point and have no desire to, you know, that's in the past. And, and, you know, she's not my friend.

(26:19):
So many, so many are friends with her ex-wives and it's great. But in my case, she is not my friend. And just was a very, very toxic relationship and particularly the way it was divorced.
So, yeah, I've heard this story from many where that and you just have to be patient. It may change in the future.
Where it may be. I doubt it. Yeah, and I'm perfectly fine if it doesn't. I've done. So you've been through all these changes in your life. You had a major health thing. Your business structure changed with bankruptcy and the recasting your few gaps.

(26:53):
Yeah. Now you're I'm guessing close to 60 or so. Yeah, I just turned 60. Happy birthday. Yeah. So what's your life like now?
I'm in an age gap relationship and and we started back in 2018 and we have a great relationship. Like many age gap relationships. We went from living in the same town. But because of divergent careers.

(27:20):
We ended up in a well-disense relationship. And we've just we've just been committed to making that work. So I found my ask. Can you mention age gap and younger me? I asked how much younger?
So we have a we have a 27 year age gap. And which is the biggest age gap I've had. Most of the guys I've dated have been within 20 years. But this is the biggest age gap I've had.

(27:44):
And I'd say it's the most unorthodox relationship. But it's also the most healthy relationship that I've had.
And we have the best communication. We have the best connection. We are on the same page. I tend to be as an entrepreneur. I tend to be open to change and new things. And my partner is more of an old soul. And so so we work out really well.

(28:10):
I've seen other age gap. It's kind of like each partner brings something to the other doesn't have. That is the youth and some maybe excitement and things that the older hasn't. And then the older has the wisdom and experience. And together they have this interesting.
Yes, we do. We work as a couple. Yeah, exactly. And it's it's great to be part of a couple. But this is still be a whole person. So often I think you end up as a couple and you're still just half a person.

(28:38):
And I felt like that in my marriage that we were maybe you know that wasn't a full person. I was a half I was a half of a couple right. In this case, I feel like I'm a whole person, but in a relationship.
You've got to be committed to allowing both partners to grow where they are. So many of the relationships I think in each gap.
The older kind of stifles the growth of the younger in a sense that the older guy takes care of the younger guy and they don't even have a career. Right. And I had dated some guys where that they wanted to be kind of a house husband and they were younger.

(29:14):
And I was like, yeah, I don't really want any more dependence. And so I think. Right. So many some of these relationships are a little dysfunctional. And I think we see that.
In like I think to have a healthy one you you have to allow the both of you to grow. And particularly the older one you've got to recognize that you want a younger guy who's got a career and not become some dependent.

(29:39):
You've got to give the flexibility for them to have a career. Right. And grow in that career. And that's probably going to mean you're going to end up in a long distance relationship at some point.
So secondly, then then once you do find yourself in this long distance, I think you've got to be committed to spending the money to travel. So many guys end up in these long distance relationships, but they're not committed to actually being with that person face to face and spend the money to travel.

(30:08):
So in our case, we travel back and forth probably two or three times a month, which you know, isn't easy. But but again with my with my new business model gave me the freedom to be able to block out those weekend and start traveling.
What advice do you have for gay men who are living in a marriage and maybe afraid to come out?

(30:31):
Well, I think I think you've got to come to terms with it yourself. And I would say find a good therapist to kind of unravel a lot of your own internal feelings and struggles.
You've got to find a good therapist to talk to them that through. And then at some point you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that you're in a marriage that's mixed orientation marriage.

(30:53):
And I would say have that same therapist have those help guide those conversations with your with your wife because there's no point in living life with all these doubts and fears and and and really living by other people's expectations.

(31:14):
And then find out that you're too old to actually, you know, start life on your own. I think I think we wait too long. It's not that it's not that we get old too soon so we start life too late.
If that makes sense.
It does. It does. Well, thank you for that advice. That'll be very helpful. And thank you for sharing your story today.

(31:35):
As we already know, these stories help others who are trying to understand themselves. They feel lonely and afraid. And by hearing your story and others, they feel comforted to know that they're not and that there's hope for the future.
Yeah, thank you David Nygaard. It was wonderful speaking with you today. So pleasure. Thank you.
Coming out later in life often means starting over and letting go of some old beliefs.

(31:58):
My guest today has learned from experience how to change course and recalibrate. Whether it's a marriage, a business, a political career or even a major heart attack, you sometimes have to pick yourself up and start again.
Coming out later in life may require you to rethink your life goals and find strength you didn't realize you had.
At age 60, David Nygaard is willing to do what it takes to sustain his happy authentic life. And his resilience is a hopeful sign for the long distance relationship he has with his younger partner.

(32:29):
Now we're seeing both all the best. That's it for now. I'm David Cotton. Join us next time on Outlate With David.
To hear more episodes, visit OutlateWithDavid.com and to learn more about personal life coaching services, go to David Cotton Coaching.
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David Nygaard - divorce, heart attack, bankruptcy…a journey of resilience

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}David Nygaard - divorce, heart attack, bankruptcy…a journey of resilience