Summary
In this episode David interviews Larry Best, a retired trial lawyer who came out 20 years into his marriage, now living a full life with his partner and husband of 20 years. Their conversation explores the coming out journey of Larry, who shares his unique story of coming out to his business partner and wife. Larry's decision to come out was driven by a combination of personal factors, including the need to be true to himself and the impact it was having on his mental health. The reactions from his business partner and wife varied, with his business partner making a joke and his wife experiencing a range of emotions. Larry's decision to get married was influenced by societal expectations and the belief that he could suppress his attraction to men. However, he eventually realized that he had been living a lie and needed to come out. The process of telling his wife and children was challenging, with mixed reactions from each family member. Larry and his wife initially tried to maintain a co-parenting relationship, but over time, their relationship deteriorated. Larry also faced challenges in his professional life, with some clients distancing themselves after learning about his sexual orientation. However, he eventually transitioned to a successful career as a plaintiff lawyer. Overall, Larry's story highlights the complexities and emotional impact of coming out and navigating relationships and careers. In this conversation, Larry shares his experience of coming out and how it changed his perception of the world. He discusses the importance of joining LGBTQ political and social organizations to connect with the community. Larry also talks about how he found his partner and offers advice for men who are at the beginning of the coming out process. He emphasizes the need for support and understanding for spouses and family members during this time.
Takeaways
00:00 Introduction and Setting the Stage
00:20 Unusual Coming Out Story
02:27 Reactions from Business Partner and Wife
03:31 Emotional Impact on Wife
05:45 Supporting Wife Emotionally
06:12 The Decision to Get Married
08:04 Realization of Being Gay
11:22 Fear of Coming Out
18:26 Divorce and Financial Settlement
24:45 Telling the Children
29:44 Reflections on the Coming Out Process
33:34 Impact on Business and Career
41:15 Changing Perception
44:10 Connecting with the LGBTQ Community
45:53 Finding a Partner
51:06 Advice for Men Coming Out
57:09 Supporting Spouses and Family
58:35 Understanding the Wife's Perspective
59:04 Closing Remarks
Larry Best's online memoir: https://medium.com/@laurencebest
Boo
In this episode David interviews Larry Best, a retired trial lawyer who came out 20 years into his marriage, now living a full life with his partner and husband of 20 years. Their conversation explores the coming out journey of Larry, who shares his unique story of coming out to his business partner and wife. Larry's decision to come out was driven by a combination of personal factors, including the need to be true to himself and the impact it was having on his mental health. The reactions from his business partner and wife varied, with his business partner making a joke and his wife experiencing a range of emotions. Larry's decision to get married was influenced by societal expectations and the belief that he could suppress his attraction to men. However, he eventually realized that he had been living a lie and needed to come out. The process of telling his wife and children was challenging, with mixed reactions from each family member. Larry and his wife initially tried to maintain a co-parenting relationship, but over time, their relationship deteriorated. Larry also faced challenges in his professional life, with some clients distancing themselves after learning about his sexual orientation. However, he eventually transitioned to a successful career as a plaintiff lawyer. Overall, Larry's story highlights the complexities and emotional impact of coming out and navigating relationships and careers. In this conversation, Larry shares his experience of coming out and how it changed his perception of the world. He discusses the importance of joining LGBTQ political and social organizations to connect with the community. Larry also talks about how he found his partner and offers advice for men who are at the beginning of the coming out process. He emphasizes the need for support and understanding for spouses and family members during this time.
Takeaways
- Coming out is a deeply personal and complex journey, with each individual facing unique challenges and reactions from loved ones.
- The decision to get married while suppressing one's true sexual orientation can lead to internal conflict and a sense of living a lie.
- The process of coming out can have a significant emotional impact on spouses and children, with reactions ranging from relief to anger and despair.
- Supporting loved ones through the coming out process requires patience, understanding, and a willingness to be present and listen.
- Coming out can have professional implications, with potential challenges in maintaining client relationships and navigating workplace dynamics. Coming out can change one's perception of the world and the people in it.
- Joining LGBTQ political and social organizations can provide a social network and help in meeting like-minded individuals.
- Finding a partner after coming out can take time and patience.
- Support and understanding for spouses and family members are crucial during the coming out process.
00:00 Introduction and Setting the Stage
00:20 Unusual Coming Out Story
02:27 Reactions from Business Partner and Wife
03:31 Emotional Impact on Wife
05:45 Supporting Wife Emotionally
06:12 The Decision to Get Married
08:04 Realization of Being Gay
11:22 Fear of Coming Out
18:26 Divorce and Financial Settlement
24:45 Telling the Children
29:44 Reflections on the Coming Out Process
33:34 Impact on Business and Career
41:15 Changing Perception
44:10 Connecting with the LGBTQ Community
45:53 Finding a Partner
51:06 Advice for Men Coming Out
57:09 Supporting Spouses and Family
58:35 Understanding the Wife's Perspective
59:04 Closing Remarks
Larry Best's online memoir: https://medium.com/@laurencebest
Boo
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Watch the video version of this podcast at outlay with David dot com.
(00:07):
Hi, I'm David Cotton.
I'm a father, a brother, a son.
I'm a retired U.S. Air Force Brigadier General, a former senior executive in the Department
of Defense, a corporate vice president, and now a life coach.
At the age 59, I told my wife, my kids, and the world, I'm gay.
(00:33):
Join me as I talk with others who've made this coming out journey late in life to become
who they really are.
You're listening to OutLate with David.
My guest today is a retired trial lawyer who came out to his wife and kids at age 42,
20 years into his marriage.
(00:54):
After years of remaining married, he finally divorced, giving up most of his worldly possessions.
He went on to rebuild his fortune, married again, demand this time, and became an activist
for gay rights.
Joining us today from New Orleans, attorney Larry Best.
(01:16):
Well Larry, welcome.
I'm so happy that you're joining me today.
Well thank you for having me, David.
It's a pleasure to be here.
So your coming out story seems a little unusual, and from the aspect that you told your business
partner before your wife, why was that?
Although she didn't like that either because I'm very, notwithstanding by being deceitful
(01:37):
about my sexual orientation, but without a sky, and I was always honest with her.
So when they came out there, I admitted that I had told my partner first.
And I think the reason I did it, it's a combination of things.
I had a trial coming up and I was coming on glue.
It was a big case.
I had just come to this decision I had to come out and it was interfering with my focus
(02:01):
and my concentration.
I felt like I just had to get it off my chest.
And I thought, well this will be a dry run.
This is a way to run through it, see how it goes.
So when you were driving to that trial, how did he react when you're telling him?
He reacted with the joke.
He was very quiet at first and then he said, well, I figured you were going to tell me you
(02:25):
were either buffing Sheila, our receptionist or you're going to tell me you were gay.
And he said, I was kind of hoping it was Sheila.
No, wow.
He could be a witty guy.
He was a very, very quick mind.
I don't think that was really what it was all his mind to say.
I think he was shocked.
I think he didn't like it.
(02:47):
I think he was afraid for his future because he was seven years younger than me.
We just started a law firm and I think he thought we're going to crash and burn.
And he was nearly right.
But his mother wound up telling him he needed to stand by me.
She was from New York.
Well, they were all from New York.
And so I appreciated that she did that and he did.
(03:10):
So when you got around to telling your wife you've been married 20 years, by recall, you
had three children?
Yes.
How did that look out when you told her?
Well, I don't know if anybody was told, I'm sure there are people who've told their wives
and it went well, but I have read those stories yet.
It's always a shock to them, almost always unless you admitted you were bi or something before
(03:33):
you were married.
But in the circumstances, in my circumstances, it was a shock to her.
And at first, the first thing she said, she said, oh, I was so worried.
She said you've been so detached for the last few weeks you've been depressed.
You've been not communicating.
You've been downcast.
(03:54):
I thought you had cancer and you were dying and you were about to tell me the doctor told
you it was over.
That's what's her first reaction.
So in a way, she was a little bit relieved.
But of course, then as the moment's passed and the reality sunk in, today she was probably
basically as better off if I had died.
So she was a little bit relieved.
(04:16):
What other emotions came out of her at the time after that relief?
Her initial anxiety, I think, was her health.
She was convinced.
She wanted to know the details of how I figured this out and what had been going on in my
life and I summarized it in a short way in about five minutes, which included the fact
(04:40):
that I had never been with man all the years for marriage until a couple of months before
I had one experience and then another one.
And those were the experiences that made me realize I've been living a lie.
And I told her all this, that her next reaction was she was afraid I had given her AIDS.
And I assured her that I had been very careful on both occasions, but there was no chance
(05:03):
in the world that I had AIDS and she wasn't buying it.
She made a appointment with the doctor the next day to be tested and of course back in those
days in the early 90s, it took a long time to get your results.
Anyway, so the first reaction was relief.
The psycho rehash, she was fear and anxiety that I thoughtlessly given her AIDS.
(05:28):
And then the third reaction probably was a combination of anger and despair.
And this continued over the next several weeks.
We had a wonderful marriage.
We really had 20 very happy years, the other at least I did.
And I thought that she had and we had a good honest relationship and all other respects.
(05:52):
So I just tried to be there for her.
She had good days, she had bad days, she had mostly bad days.
There was a day she was pounding on my chest in tears, angry at me.
I just stood there and let her pound.
I remembered something I had heard when learned in therapy years before that therapist said
(06:13):
that the job of the therapist was to be a ball just to be there for the patient and let
them spill whatever they wanted in the bowl and hold it and be with him.
So that's what I tried to do.
I wanted her to know I was there for her.
I didn't abandon her in any ways.
I stayed fit in the end she probably felt she'd been a bad and but in reading your memoir
(06:35):
that you wrote online, I had the impression that you felt the need to get married.
You said getting married had been the ruthless act of survival.
What did you mean by that?
Well before I got married, actually I was aware I'd been attracted to males from 14,
(06:58):
maybe 13.
How did you know that when you had that feeling?
Because I was staring at them.
I was thinking about their bodies all the time and I thought, "What's wrong with me?
I'm feeling inadequate and inferior and so I'm looking at them and wishing I were them."
So I just lied to myself.
I don't think I realized it was a lie at the time.
(07:21):
That worked well through college and high school.
I dated girls.
I felt madly in love with one girl, two girls in high school and one in college and there
was no doubt in my mind that I did and could love women and had great sex with them.
So I said, "Well this is apparently a bisexual part of me and I'm just going to put this
(07:43):
away and tuck it away because I can have great sex with women.
I love women.
I have loved women but I'd never touched a guy."
And I could not conceive of ever loving a guy.
So I said, "Well, if you've got physical relationships on both sides and love on only one side, it's
a no-brainer.
(08:03):
You're going to go and you're going to marry a woman."
And I did it with some reservations.
Even that summer just before we got married and I have a story about this as well.
I went to a fraternity brother's house because I was losing weight.
I was anxious.
I was worried I'd made the wrong decision in getting married.
(08:25):
And he was a very attractive guy who I wasn't attracted to.
And there were just some things about him that made me think he was something like me.
So I went to his house to talk and it did not go well and I finally went home and I said,
"Well, have you been getting advanced in him or something?"
Well, very subtly.
(08:47):
We talked for a while and I talked about how I really wasn't sure this is the right thing
to do.
Maybe I wasn't the marry in Cologne.
And he's sitting there next to one other on a couch but facing each other and he's sitting
there with his legs crossed in his box, your shorts.
I finally said, "I thought maybe you'd understand it.
(09:08):
I put my hand on his knee."
And he had a look of horror and he said, "Oh, I don't think I'd do."
It was disappointing.
It was upsetting and I just told myself, "Hey, I've been accepted to law school.
(09:30):
I'm engaged.
I love this woman.
We have great sex.
This is a disaster.
I just need to move on.
There is no life for me if I don't move on.
There's no career.
There's no love.
There's no respect.
There's no nothing."
And I didn't see a choice.
What did you see, no choice?
(09:51):
You saw no life, no career, no nothing?
Because in 1991 in New Orleans, anyway, if you came out as gay, I would have been fired.
I figured it was a good thing in a way.
I just started my own law firm because I couldn't be fired.
Most people, I think, in those circumstances, if you're in certain professions, if you're
(10:13):
liberal arts, if you're in education, if you're a theater, a lot of artistic endeavors.
I say, "You can get away with being gay, but being a trial lawyer in the deep south."
I didn't yet know I was going to be a trial lawyer, but being a respectable lawyer who
would have a good practice and a good business, I didn't think it was possible.
(10:34):
I'd never seen anybody openly gay at that time as a professional of any kind.
I had absolutely no gay role models.
To me, it was just a bunch of people looking for quick sex in one night stands, in physical
gratification, and it was no life, no respectability.
(10:54):
I had not seen any gay life to the contrary anywhere.
So when you got married there for 20 years, had some thoughts, what was the event that actually
didn't kick that off?
I had started going to gay bars about three or four years before, only when I was out of
town traveling.
(11:15):
I kept thinking I could have sex with a guy because I desperately wanted to, but it just
never happened.
I got used to nothing happening, and I would still go to the gay bars because I just felt
I was me there when I was not me anywhere else.
Just being in the bar, reading the bar rigs, having a beer, it's like I could breathe, I
(11:38):
could exhale.
I did that, and then suddenly just a couple of months before I told my wife, I was going
to hit an empty bar in Alexandria, Louisiana, and a guy comes in and he sits down next to me
and starts chatting me up, and we wound up going back to my hotel room together.
(12:00):
And he too was a married man with children.
And it was just a wonderful experience.
I didn't feel guilty.
I felt fulfilled.
I felt enriched.
I felt real for the first time in my life.
I felt complete.
And I know this guy.
I had never seen him again since.
(12:24):
So I said, okay, well, I'll just go ahead and I'll just do this when I'm out of town occasionally,
and it will scratch the itch and everything will be okay.
And so the next out of town business trip was to Boston to go visit my clients.
And so I met the bookstore and I'm walking out of the bookstore and there's a sticker
on the wall on the stairway down to Boyle Street in Boston and it's a dream boys of Boston
(12:49):
and a phone number.
Dream boys of Boston.
I called it, set up an appointment and he came up and had a very nice room.
I had a bar and everything at a sitting year.
Or yeah, I had views over Boston Harbor.
And I really liked it.
It's all I got back to New Orleans.
(13:10):
I just dawned on me.
Oh my god, you're in love with this guy.
And you wouldn't think that would happen, but I suppose I was like an accident waiting
for a place to happen if you understand what I mean.
And I said, you're in love with this guy.
This is going nowhere.
You're a fool.
You have to put this aside.
You have to forget this.
(13:32):
But I couldn't escape the conclusion that, uh oh, 20 years ago when I couldn't
include it, it was impossible to love a man.
I had been wrong.
And here I had loved somebody I barely even knew in this violent, obsessive way.
And I suppose I could have lied to myself again and said, well, this is just an infatuation.
(13:53):
It's not real love.
Let it go.
But somehow I just, well, my whole world came crashing down around me in that moment and
I burst into tears at my desk.
And I remember the ink running as my tears fell on the page of my notes.
And I said, I can't live like this.
(14:14):
I can't do this another day.
I got to be me and it's going to destroy my career, but my family, but there's nothing I
can do.
I just, I felt like I couldn't breathe like I suffocate.
And the only way I could take a breath of air was to come out.
And so a week, a few, a week or ten days later, I told my law partner, a week after that,
(14:39):
I told my wife a few days after that, we told the kids and a week after that, I moved
out.
Wow.
Because fast.
Well, it is fast.
And I, you know, I heard lots of other people's coming out stories and most people don't
do it that fast.
But I felt it was like a band-aid.
I needed a rip it off quick.
I needed to get to a new place quick.
(14:59):
I thought it was better for everybody just let's get this done with, you know, for me to live
in the house and all this, you know, pretend everything is going in a normal way.
I didn't think I was capable of that.
I knew my wife and I would not get along in the same way.
The kids just know something was wrong.
It was going to go to hell if I didn't come.
So I said that, just be honest.
(15:21):
And that's what I do.
More of my interview with Larry in just a moment.
First, I'd like to recommend a book I found insightful on my coming out journey.
The book is fashionally late, gay, pie, and trans men who came out later in life edited
by Vinnie Konsella.
The book is a collection of 16 narratives from individuals who navigated the complexities
(15:44):
of coming out later in life as gay, bisexual, or transgender.
In essence, they're second coming of age.
Through their stories readers will find solace, inspiration, and a sense of community in
their own journeys of self discovery and acceptance.
For more books and online resources about coming out later in life, visit outlakewithdavid.com.
Now back to more of my conversation with Larry.
(16:07):
Let's go back to your wife then.
So once you told her this story, did you decide you're going to get divorced when you moved
out or stay together?
How was that going to work on the family dynamics?
Oh, I didn't even think about divorce because remember, we didn't have gay marriage then.
This is 1991.
And the way I looked at it, it didn't matter.
You know, if I found somebody where there was married to, or not, it didn't affect what
(16:31):
I was looking for, which was a relationship, a long term relationship with a man.
And so I thought, well, I can stay married to her because it's just simpler and it will
give her a sense of security.
And I assured her and the kids that their daily living circumstances would not change.
They'd have the same house, the same rooms, the same cars, the same everything.
(16:56):
And that I would move out and I would come back and visit them all the time.
My wife and I actually discussed the possibility of getting an apartment where we alternated
weeks and had the kids.
But the problem with that was she couldn't stay in the idea of being in an apartment where
I was entertaining men, even though me and the men aren't there at the time.
(17:18):
That was too traumatic.
And so finally, I just thought, well, the best thing, you'd be wonderful to have shared custody,
but I mean, I've worked all the time, traveling all the time anyway.
And she's a stay at home long.
So let's let the kids stay where they are and let's with her stay where they are.
And I moved up and got an apartment.
(17:39):
But a year later, I bought a small house in the same neighborhood where my family's lived.
And a year, 18 months after that, bought a house right around the corner.
So I wanted to be in their lives.
They were my family.
I didn't want to leave my family.
It broke my heart to move out from my family, not to see my kids over.
(18:04):
The dinner table was just one of the hardest things I ever had to deal with.
But I went to all their school activities.
I went to the beach whenever I was in town and able to went to the boys' basketball
games, their track meets it.
And all of their school functions I was there.
(18:25):
And I did what I could.
I don't think it was optimal.
I don't think divorce is ever wrong.
So you decided divorce then in the end is what it sound like?
Well, in the end, yes, it was about five or six years later.
The kids were by Zen, two were in college, and one was soon going to be out of high school
(18:48):
two.
And it just seemed, you know, it's time.
And I gave her everything we had.
What do you mean by everything?
Well, we had retirement savings I'd been investing in since I'd started practicing law.
I gave her that.
I gave her every penny that we had saved.
All the equity in the house, all the contents of the house, I continued paying everybody's
(19:14):
bills for years.
I continued paying the kids' tuition, college, and graduate school.
I was fortunate to be in a position to be able to do that and still support myself separately.
And I just, I didn't want to cause any more damage than I already had.
(19:34):
But divorced me at some point.
We're not living together.
And I was in a relationship that had been for years.
So I just thought, you know, it's time to get the divorce and just get it on paper.
And so that's what we did.
Why did you make the decision that everything goes?
I know in my case, it was more of a negotiated percentage on many things, like D-15, in
(19:56):
some case.
I just felt guilty.
I took two reasons.
One, I felt guilty.
And the second was I felt I've got enough earning capacity to survive this.
You know, and because she actually said, no, we should split stuff.
And I said, no, I can earn more money.
Hit, you know, and I also put her through college graduate school.
(20:18):
Let's go back before the divorce when you told the kids, what were their ages and how did
they react to hearing that mom and dad were having this different arrangement?
And dad was, okay, yes.
My daughter was 15.
My middle child is a boy.
He was 13.
They were about 18 months apart.
(20:39):
And the youngest was a boy, nine.
And I sat them all down.
And Julie was at my side.
And I told them the truth.
I said, I'm gay.
I didn't really understand that very recently.
I can't do this anymore.
I still love your mother.
I still love you.
We're going to go forward.
(21:00):
Nothing, you know, as a family, your mother and I have agreed we will still be a family.
She'll still be your mother.
I'll still be your dad.
And she and I are still going to make joint decisions about the family as we go along.
So I said, the only thing that's really going to change is I'm moving out.
But I'm still going to see you.
I'm going to come over for Sunday dinner.
(21:21):
And I'm going to go to your school like Tivides.
I'm going to visit and we're going to do things together whenever we get the chance.
And that's.
And that's what I did.
The response, it was like talking to a stone wall.
My daughter was obviously devastated.
She looked like she was in despair, but she made no comment at the end when I said, sure,
(21:44):
you want to talk about this?
You guys have some questions, something you want to say.
She got up and stormed out of the room.
And a little son followed shortly thereafter without saying a word.
And he said, can I go out and play?
(22:06):
And he did.
So I think there's the lesson for me was the sooner you come out to kiss, the better
off you are.
And they are the younger they are when you can come out to them.
The better off everybody is going to be for it has always been the easiest in our family
for youngest and the hardest on the oldest who was 15, which is a hard year for anybody.
(22:30):
You know, you're 15, you're an adolescent.
Things are tough.
So her dad's gay, her parents are getting divorced or separated, which was the distinction
without a difference to her.
And she was devastated.
So having been through this 20 years ago and having time to reflect on it is anything
you do differently in your coming out process with your spouse of the time and your
(22:53):
children.
No, I think maybe I would have tried a little harder to get my two older children to sit
down and actually talk, but they were so distraught.
They didn't want to talk.
I guess they needed to process and I probably should have followed up with more talk later.
I probably could have worked harder at that.
(23:15):
But in the end, you know, my sons, I have a wonderful relationship with to this day.
And my daughter and I have a kind of off and all the time.
But it could be worse.
And my ex-wife doesn't want to be in the same room with me, which is interesting because
(23:35):
we agreed to co-parent and for 20 years after I came out and moved out, we co-parented.
We even went on one or two family.
I took the family the next year on a cruise all together.
I put the boys in one cabin and the girls in another cabin.
I still love her.
I spent 20 years with her.
(23:55):
I have three children with her.
I understand that.
20 wonderful years together.
I wanted her and my life always.
But you know, I'm not in her shoes or tough walk and I respect that and I honor that as best
I can.
(24:17):
This is a life coach.
I'm committed to help you discover the passions in your life and help you map a course to achieve
the things you really want.
Together we will unwind those persistent self-doubt that are holding you back.
You'll begin to see your passions more clearly and set achievable goals.
Throughout your journey, I'll be there to challenge and encourage you in moving forward
(24:39):
to discover your authentic self.
For more information about my personal life coaching services, or to arrange a complimentary
consultation, visit DavidCottonCoaching.com.
You're listening to Outlate with David.
(24:59):
Well based on your coming out story, all that you've been through, you've had a chance
to reflect on lots of things.
You've written a lot of your story before and after coming out.
So on all of that body of knowledge and emotion and experience, what advice would you give
to other men that are listening now that are at the beginning of this process maybe trying
(25:22):
to figure out their sexuality and whether they should come out and how they might do that?
Well, hotly enough, one of the first things I would tell them, I don't have an easy answer,
but a good first step would be to join an online support group like Gae Fathers Worldwide
that I'm a member of.
(25:43):
But I have found that so helpful to so many people and people join and it's all confidential.
It's private.
If you're out of member, you can't nobody can see it.
So they can talk with safety and security.
And the new member will typically come on and post a long thing about his experience.
(26:05):
And then everybody people say, "Oh, welcome.
We're so happy to have you here."
My story was like, "Here's from this respect."
And they start exchanging things and in addition to the comments online where all the members
can see them, a lot of members, including myself, will say, "Hey, direct message me."
We can talk on the phone because sometimes people just want to talk one on one and I've
(26:30):
talked with many, many guys, one on one.
And I don't remember a single one that didn't feel they benefited from the conversations.
It might not have solved all their problems, but they had somebody to talk to.
They weren't alone in the world anymore.
And that's the biggest challenge I think, you know, for men coming out of a mixed orientation
(26:54):
marriages, they're called moms.
It's being alone.
It's having nobody to talk to, nobody who you know.
And frequently they're living in a straight world.
They don't own it, they don't own it, they don't.
And what happens is when you're with, you're around other gay people, you begin to reconstruct
your persona in odd ways.
(27:16):
I mean, your personality doesn't change.
Who you are doesn't change, but what you think of yourself changes because you're with other
people who treat you with dignity and respect.
And for many of us, that's a very refreshing experience we haven't had that before.
And we meet people who are like us.
And it builds up your self-esteem and it helps straighten your spine to deal with all the
(27:39):
problems you got to deal with.
So talk to people.
I recommend therapy.
Anybody who's got big problems, that she goes to therapy.
Family therapy sometimes is an option to consider talking to people.
But most importantly, just be yourself.
Live your life.
You only got one time around here.
(28:01):
And you shouldn't be living somebody else's life.
You got to be true to yourself.
And the cost is high to you, to you loved ones, to everything.
But it's, I don't know anybody that came out and regret it.
Not a single small.
Not a single small.
And a lot of times you don't see a light on the end of that tunnel or a real trunnel,
but it is there.
It just takes a while to get there.
(28:23):
You're right.
It takes a lot of patience.
So right.
Because you talked about some spouses are supportive at first.
And not later, some are not supportive at first.
And our later, some go up and down.
Same with family and friends.
You just have to live your life and be true to yourself.
You can't control the others in your orbit.
They're going to do what they believe is right for them.
(28:45):
It's just best that we be honest with ourselves.
I think that's true.
And I do think that it's worth every effort you can make to be there for your family,
and if they're rejecting you, you know, you've got to keep showing up.
And make sure to.
They have a support system.
(29:06):
So when you do come out to them, where is the spouse going to talk to?
Like you said, you didn't put restrictions on anyone.
You let them talk to others, communicate with others as they needed to.
Well, you bring up a good point.
I guess if you're planning this, it might be a good thing to get a copy of Aberdeen
Bucsidens, the other side of the closet, be ready to give it to your wife to show that you've
(29:29):
been your concern about her.
And this will maybe be at first step for her.
There are online support groups for those women too.
I think you can encourage your spouse to get therapy, to get family therapy.
There are a lot of other books loving someone gives a good one.
(29:49):
But some people are not readers.
Some people don't want to read about your life because they're too angry and it's all about
you and they get lost in the dust.
And that's how the wives feel.
So people coming out need to understand that the wife's perspective as well.
It's all party time and relief and happiness for the gay guy who's coming out.
Everybody's happy for them.
(30:09):
And congratulating him, telling them the proud of them and courage it took.
And then the wives were just left with nothing in the dust.
And that generates a lot of anger and resentment.
So I don't have a magic wand that I can give to anybody on how to deal with that.
But it helps to be very aware of it.
(30:30):
As you can deal with it better, at least if you know it's coming.
They have legitimate gripes.
I mean, they're right.
I know I didn't give those books to my former spouse, but I'd to read them myself to try
to understand the perspective of what might be going through her.
Well, that's another good thing to do.
Yes.
I come back out to do that as well.
(30:54):
But again, thank you, Larry, for your time.
And I appreciate all that you told us today.
Well, thank you, David.
It was my pleasure and an honor and anything I could do to help anybody, I'm always happy
to do.
As we know, there's no foolproof plan for coming out later in life.
But I think Larry Bess provided us some viable lessons he learned on his journey to happiness.
(31:18):
Larry stressed how important it is to keep showing up for your family, even if they're rejecting
you.
He also recommends seeking out support from groups like gay fathers worldwide.
As he put it, "When you're around other gay people, your self-esteem improves because
you're treated with dignity and respect."
I believe that's true.
Larry has published many stories about his life's adventures as a gay man coming out later
(31:40):
in life, and you can find them all at medium.com.
I'm David Cotton.
Join us next time for Outlate with David.
To hear more episodes, visit OutlatewithDavid.com and to learn more about personal life coaching
services, go to DavidCottenCoaching.com.
(upbeat music)
(32:02):
(upbeat music)
[ Tylenol ]
Watch the video version of this podcast at outlay with David dot com.
(00:07):
Hi, I'm David Cotton.
I'm a father, a brother, a son.
I'm a retired U.S. Air Force Brigadier General, a former senior executive in the Department
of Defense, a corporate vice president, and now a life coach.
At the age 59, I told my wife, my kids, and the world, I'm gay.
(00:33):
Join me as I talk with others who've made this coming out journey late in life to become
who they really are.
You're listening to OutLate with David.
My guest today is a retired trial lawyer who came out to his wife and kids at age 42,
20 years into his marriage.
(00:54):
After years of remaining married, he finally divorced, giving up most of his worldly possessions.
He went on to rebuild his fortune, married again, demand this time, and became an activist
for gay rights.
Joining us today from New Orleans, attorney Larry Best.
(01:16):
Well Larry, welcome.
I'm so happy that you're joining me today.
Well thank you for having me, David.
It's a pleasure to be here.
So your coming out story seems a little unusual, and from the aspect that you told your business
partner before your wife, why was that?
Although she didn't like that either because I'm very, notwithstanding by being deceitful
(01:37):
about my sexual orientation, but without a sky, and I was always honest with her.
So when they came out there, I admitted that I had told my partner first.
And I think the reason I did it, it's a combination of things.
I had a trial coming up and I was coming on glue.
It was a big case.
I had just come to this decision I had to come out and it was interfering with my focus
(02:01):
and my concentration.
I felt like I just had to get it off my chest.
And I thought, well this will be a dry run.
This is a way to run through it, see how it goes.
So when you were driving to that trial, how did he react when you're telling him?
He reacted with the joke.
He was very quiet at first and then he said, well, I figured you were going to tell me you
(02:25):
were either buffing Sheila, our receptionist or you're going to tell me you were gay.
And he said, I was kind of hoping it was Sheila.
No, wow.
He could be a witty guy.
He was a very, very quick mind.
I don't think that was really what it was all his mind to say.
I think he was shocked.
I think he didn't like it.
(02:47):
I think he was afraid for his future because he was seven years younger than me.
We just started a law firm and I think he thought we're going to crash and burn.
And he was nearly right.
But his mother wound up telling him he needed to stand by me.
She was from New York.
Well, they were all from New York.
And so I appreciated that she did that and he did.
(03:10):
So when you got around to telling your wife you've been married 20 years, by recall, you
had three children?
Yes.
How did that look out when you told her?
Well, I don't know if anybody was told, I'm sure there are people who've told their wives
and it went well, but I have read those stories yet.
It's always a shock to them, almost always unless you admitted you were bi or something before
(03:33):
you were married.
But in the circumstances, in my circumstances, it was a shock to her.
And at first, the first thing she said, she said, oh, I was so worried.
She said you've been so detached for the last few weeks you've been depressed.
You've been not communicating.
You've been downcast.
(03:54):
I thought you had cancer and you were dying and you were about to tell me the doctor told
you it was over.
That's what's her first reaction.
So in a way, she was a little bit relieved.
But of course, then as the moment's passed and the reality sunk in, today she was probably
basically as better off if I had died.
So she was a little bit relieved.
(04:16):
What other emotions came out of her at the time after that relief?
Her initial anxiety, I think, was her health.
She was convinced.
She wanted to know the details of how I figured this out and what had been going on in my
life and I summarized it in a short way in about five minutes, which included the fact
(04:40):
that I had never been with man all the years for marriage until a couple of months before
I had one experience and then another one.
And those were the experiences that made me realize I've been living a lie.
And I told her all this, that her next reaction was she was afraid I had given her AIDS.
And I assured her that I had been very careful on both occasions, but there was no chance
(05:03):
in the world that I had AIDS and she wasn't buying it.
She made a appointment with the doctor the next day to be tested and of course back in those
days in the early 90s, it took a long time to get your results.
Anyway, so the first reaction was relief.
The psycho rehash, she was fear and anxiety that I thoughtlessly given her AIDS.
(05:28):
And then the third reaction probably was a combination of anger and despair.
And this continued over the next several weeks.
We had a wonderful marriage.
We really had 20 very happy years, the other at least I did.
And I thought that she had and we had a good honest relationship and all other respects.
(05:52):
So I just tried to be there for her.
She had good days, she had bad days, she had mostly bad days.
There was a day she was pounding on my chest in tears, angry at me.
I just stood there and let her pound.
I remembered something I had heard when learned in therapy years before that therapist said
(06:13):
that the job of the therapist was to be a ball just to be there for the patient and let
them spill whatever they wanted in the bowl and hold it and be with him.
So that's what I tried to do.
I wanted her to know I was there for her.
I didn't abandon her in any ways.
I stayed fit in the end she probably felt she'd been a bad and but in reading your memoir
(06:35):
that you wrote online, I had the impression that you felt the need to get married.
You said getting married had been the ruthless act of survival.
What did you mean by that?
Well before I got married, actually I was aware I'd been attracted to males from 14,
(06:58):
maybe 13.
How did you know that when you had that feeling?
Because I was staring at them.
I was thinking about their bodies all the time and I thought, "What's wrong with me?
I'm feeling inadequate and inferior and so I'm looking at them and wishing I were them."
So I just lied to myself.
I don't think I realized it was a lie at the time.
(07:21):
That worked well through college and high school.
I dated girls.
I felt madly in love with one girl, two girls in high school and one in college and there
was no doubt in my mind that I did and could love women and had great sex with them.
So I said, "Well this is apparently a bisexual part of me and I'm just going to put this
(07:43):
away and tuck it away because I can have great sex with women.
I love women.
I have loved women but I'd never touched a guy."
And I could not conceive of ever loving a guy.
So I said, "Well, if you've got physical relationships on both sides and love on only one side, it's
a no-brainer.
(08:03):
You're going to go and you're going to marry a woman."
And I did it with some reservations.
Even that summer just before we got married and I have a story about this as well.
I went to a fraternity brother's house because I was losing weight.
I was anxious.
I was worried I'd made the wrong decision in getting married.
(08:25):
And he was a very attractive guy who I wasn't attracted to.
And there were just some things about him that made me think he was something like me.
So I went to his house to talk and it did not go well and I finally went home and I said,
"Well, have you been getting advanced in him or something?"
Well, very subtly.
(08:47):
We talked for a while and I talked about how I really wasn't sure this is the right thing
to do.
Maybe I wasn't the marry in Cologne.
And he's sitting there next to one other on a couch but facing each other and he's sitting
there with his legs crossed in his box, your shorts.
I finally said, "I thought maybe you'd understand it.
(09:08):
I put my hand on his knee."
And he had a look of horror and he said, "Oh, I don't think I'd do."
It was disappointing.
It was upsetting and I just told myself, "Hey, I've been accepted to law school.
(09:30):
I'm engaged.
I love this woman.
We have great sex.
This is a disaster.
I just need to move on.
There is no life for me if I don't move on.
There's no career.
There's no love.
There's no respect.
There's no nothing."
And I didn't see a choice.
What did you see, no choice?
(09:51):
You saw no life, no career, no nothing?
Because in 1991 in New Orleans, anyway, if you came out as gay, I would have been fired.
I figured it was a good thing in a way.
I just started my own law firm because I couldn't be fired.
Most people, I think, in those circumstances, if you're in certain professions, if you're
(10:13):
liberal arts, if you're in education, if you're a theater, a lot of artistic endeavors.
I say, "You can get away with being gay, but being a trial lawyer in the deep south."
I didn't yet know I was going to be a trial lawyer, but being a respectable lawyer who
would have a good practice and a good business, I didn't think it was possible.
(10:34):
I'd never seen anybody openly gay at that time as a professional of any kind.
I had absolutely no gay role models.
To me, it was just a bunch of people looking for quick sex in one night stands, in physical
gratification, and it was no life, no respectability.
(10:54):
I had not seen any gay life to the contrary anywhere.
So when you got married there for 20 years, had some thoughts, what was the event that actually
didn't kick that off?
I had started going to gay bars about three or four years before, only when I was out of
town traveling.
(11:15):
I kept thinking I could have sex with a guy because I desperately wanted to, but it just
never happened.
I got used to nothing happening, and I would still go to the gay bars because I just felt
I was me there when I was not me anywhere else.
Just being in the bar, reading the bar rigs, having a beer, it's like I could breathe, I
(11:38):
could exhale.
I did that, and then suddenly just a couple of months before I told my wife, I was going
to hit an empty bar in Alexandria, Louisiana, and a guy comes in and he sits down next to me
and starts chatting me up, and we wound up going back to my hotel room together.
(12:00):
And he too was a married man with children.
And it was just a wonderful experience.
I didn't feel guilty.
I felt fulfilled.
I felt enriched.
I felt real for the first time in my life.
I felt complete.
And I know this guy.
I had never seen him again since.
(12:24):
So I said, okay, well, I'll just go ahead and I'll just do this when I'm out of town occasionally,
and it will scratch the itch and everything will be okay.
And so the next out of town business trip was to Boston to go visit my clients.
And so I met the bookstore and I'm walking out of the bookstore and there's a sticker
on the wall on the stairway down to Boyle Street in Boston and it's a dream boys of Boston
(12:49):
and a phone number.
Dream boys of Boston.
I called it, set up an appointment and he came up and had a very nice room.
I had a bar and everything at a sitting year.
Or yeah, I had views over Boston Harbor.
And I really liked it.
It's all I got back to New Orleans.
(13:10):
I just dawned on me.
Oh my god, you're in love with this guy.
And you wouldn't think that would happen, but I suppose I was like an accident waiting
for a place to happen if you understand what I mean.
And I said, you're in love with this guy.
This is going nowhere.
You're a fool.
You have to put this aside.
You have to forget this.
(13:32):
But I couldn't escape the conclusion that, uh oh, 20 years ago when I couldn't
include it, it was impossible to love a man.
I had been wrong.
And here I had loved somebody I barely even knew in this violent, obsessive way.
And I suppose I could have lied to myself again and said, well, this is just an infatuation.
(13:53):
It's not real love.
Let it go.
But somehow I just, well, my whole world came crashing down around me in that moment and
I burst into tears at my desk.
And I remember the ink running as my tears fell on the page of my notes.
And I said, I can't live like this.
(14:14):
I can't do this another day.
I got to be me and it's going to destroy my career, but my family, but there's nothing I
can do.
I just, I felt like I couldn't breathe like I suffocate.
And the only way I could take a breath of air was to come out.
And so a week, a few, a week or ten days later, I told my law partner, a week after that,
(14:39):
I told my wife a few days after that, we told the kids and a week after that, I moved
out.
Wow.
Because fast.
Well, it is fast.
And I, you know, I heard lots of other people's coming out stories and most people don't
do it that fast.
But I felt it was like a band-aid.
I needed a rip it off quick.
I needed to get to a new place quick.
(14:59):
I thought it was better for everybody just let's get this done with, you know, for me to live
in the house and all this, you know, pretend everything is going in a normal way.
I didn't think I was capable of that.
I knew my wife and I would not get along in the same way.
The kids just know something was wrong.
It was going to go to hell if I didn't come.
So I said that, just be honest.
(15:21):
And that's what I do.
More of my interview with Larry in just a moment.
First, I'd like to recommend a book I found insightful on my coming out journey.
The book is fashionally late, gay, pie, and trans men who came out later in life edited
by Vinnie Konsella.
The book is a collection of 16 narratives from individuals who navigated the complexities
(15:44):
of coming out later in life as gay, bisexual, or transgender.
In essence, they're second coming of age.
Through their stories readers will find solace, inspiration, and a sense of community in
their own journeys of self discovery and acceptance.
For more books and online resources about coming out later in life, visit outlakewithdavid.com.
Now back to more of my conversation with Larry.
(16:07):
Let's go back to your wife then.
So once you told her this story, did you decide you're going to get divorced when you moved
out or stay together?
How was that going to work on the family dynamics?
Oh, I didn't even think about divorce because remember, we didn't have gay marriage then.
This is 1991.
And the way I looked at it, it didn't matter.
You know, if I found somebody where there was married to, or not, it didn't affect what
(16:31):
I was looking for, which was a relationship, a long term relationship with a man.
And so I thought, well, I can stay married to her because it's just simpler and it will
give her a sense of security.
And I assured her and the kids that their daily living circumstances would not change.
They'd have the same house, the same rooms, the same cars, the same everything.
(16:56):
And that I would move out and I would come back and visit them all the time.
My wife and I actually discussed the possibility of getting an apartment where we alternated
weeks and had the kids.
But the problem with that was she couldn't stay in the idea of being in an apartment where
I was entertaining men, even though me and the men aren't there at the time.
(17:18):
That was too traumatic.
And so finally, I just thought, well, the best thing, you'd be wonderful to have shared custody,
but I mean, I've worked all the time, traveling all the time anyway.
And she's a stay at home long.
So let's let the kids stay where they are and let's with her stay where they are.
And I moved up and got an apartment.
(17:39):
But a year later, I bought a small house in the same neighborhood where my family's lived.
And a year, 18 months after that, bought a house right around the corner.
So I wanted to be in their lives.
They were my family.
I didn't want to leave my family.
It broke my heart to move out from my family, not to see my kids over.
(18:04):
The dinner table was just one of the hardest things I ever had to deal with.
But I went to all their school activities.
I went to the beach whenever I was in town and able to went to the boys' basketball
games, their track meets it.
And all of their school functions I was there.
(18:25):
And I did what I could.
I don't think it was optimal.
I don't think divorce is ever wrong.
So you decided divorce then in the end is what it sound like?
Well, in the end, yes, it was about five or six years later.
The kids were by Zen, two were in college, and one was soon going to be out of high school
(18:48):
two.
And it just seemed, you know, it's time.
And I gave her everything we had.
What do you mean by everything?
Well, we had retirement savings I'd been investing in since I'd started practicing law.
I gave her that.
I gave her every penny that we had saved.
All the equity in the house, all the contents of the house, I continued paying everybody's
(19:14):
bills for years.
I continued paying the kids' tuition, college, and graduate school.
I was fortunate to be in a position to be able to do that and still support myself separately.
And I just, I didn't want to cause any more damage than I already had.
(19:34):
But divorced me at some point.
We're not living together.
And I was in a relationship that had been for years.
So I just thought, you know, it's time to get the divorce and just get it on paper.
And so that's what we did.
Why did you make the decision that everything goes?
I know in my case, it was more of a negotiated percentage on many things, like D-15, in
(19:56):
some case.
I just felt guilty.
I took two reasons.
One, I felt guilty.
And the second was I felt I've got enough earning capacity to survive this.
You know, and because she actually said, no, we should split stuff.
And I said, no, I can earn more money.
Hit, you know, and I also put her through college graduate school.
(20:18):
Let's go back before the divorce when you told the kids, what were their ages and how did
they react to hearing that mom and dad were having this different arrangement?
And dad was, okay, yes.
My daughter was 15.
My middle child is a boy.
He was 13.
They were about 18 months apart.
(20:39):
And the youngest was a boy, nine.
And I sat them all down.
And Julie was at my side.
And I told them the truth.
I said, I'm gay.
I didn't really understand that very recently.
I can't do this anymore.
I still love your mother.
I still love you.
We're going to go forward.
(21:00):
Nothing, you know, as a family, your mother and I have agreed we will still be a family.
She'll still be your mother.
I'll still be your dad.
And she and I are still going to make joint decisions about the family as we go along.
So I said, the only thing that's really going to change is I'm moving out.
But I'm still going to see you.
I'm going to come over for Sunday dinner.
(21:21):
And I'm going to go to your school like Tivides.
I'm going to visit and we're going to do things together whenever we get the chance.
And that's.
And that's what I did.
The response, it was like talking to a stone wall.
My daughter was obviously devastated.
She looked like she was in despair, but she made no comment at the end when I said, sure,
(21:44):
you want to talk about this?
You guys have some questions, something you want to say.
She got up and stormed out of the room.
And a little son followed shortly thereafter without saying a word.
And he said, can I go out and play?
(22:06):
And he did.
So I think there's the lesson for me was the sooner you come out to kiss, the better
off you are.
And they are the younger they are when you can come out to them.
The better off everybody is going to be for it has always been the easiest in our family
for youngest and the hardest on the oldest who was 15, which is a hard year for anybody.
(22:30):
You know, you're 15, you're an adolescent.
Things are tough.
So her dad's gay, her parents are getting divorced or separated, which was the distinction
without a difference to her.
And she was devastated.
So having been through this 20 years ago and having time to reflect on it is anything
you do differently in your coming out process with your spouse of the time and your
(22:53):
children.
No, I think maybe I would have tried a little harder to get my two older children to sit
down and actually talk, but they were so distraught.
They didn't want to talk.
I guess they needed to process and I probably should have followed up with more talk later.
I probably could have worked harder at that.
(23:15):
But in the end, you know, my sons, I have a wonderful relationship with to this day.
And my daughter and I have a kind of off and all the time.
But it could be worse.
And my ex-wife doesn't want to be in the same room with me, which is interesting because
(23:35):
we agreed to co-parent and for 20 years after I came out and moved out, we co-parented.
We even went on one or two family.
I took the family the next year on a cruise all together.
I put the boys in one cabin and the girls in another cabin.
I still love her.
I spent 20 years with her.
(23:55):
I have three children with her.
I understand that.
20 wonderful years together.
I wanted her and my life always.
But you know, I'm not in her shoes or tough walk and I respect that and I honor that as best
I can.
(24:17):
This is a life coach.
I'm committed to help you discover the passions in your life and help you map a course to achieve
the things you really want.
Together we will unwind those persistent self-doubt that are holding you back.
You'll begin to see your passions more clearly and set achievable goals.
Throughout your journey, I'll be there to challenge and encourage you in moving forward
(24:39):
to discover your authentic self.
For more information about my personal life coaching services, or to arrange a complimentary
consultation, visit DavidCottonCoaching.com.
You're listening to Outlate with David.
(24:59):
Well based on your coming out story, all that you've been through, you've had a chance
to reflect on lots of things.
You've written a lot of your story before and after coming out.
So on all of that body of knowledge and emotion and experience, what advice would you give
to other men that are listening now that are at the beginning of this process maybe trying
(25:22):
to figure out their sexuality and whether they should come out and how they might do that?
Well, hotly enough, one of the first things I would tell them, I don't have an easy answer,
but a good first step would be to join an online support group like Gae Fathers Worldwide
that I'm a member of.
(25:43):
But I have found that so helpful to so many people and people join and it's all confidential.
It's private.
If you're out of member, you can't nobody can see it.
So they can talk with safety and security.
And the new member will typically come on and post a long thing about his experience.
(26:05):
And then everybody people say, "Oh, welcome.
We're so happy to have you here."
My story was like, "Here's from this respect."
And they start exchanging things and in addition to the comments online where all the members
can see them, a lot of members, including myself, will say, "Hey, direct message me."
We can talk on the phone because sometimes people just want to talk one on one and I've
(26:30):
talked with many, many guys, one on one.
And I don't remember a single one that didn't feel they benefited from the conversations.
It might not have solved all their problems, but they had somebody to talk to.
They weren't alone in the world anymore.
And that's the biggest challenge I think, you know, for men coming out of a mixed orientation
(26:54):
marriages, they're called moms.
It's being alone.
It's having nobody to talk to, nobody who you know.
And frequently they're living in a straight world.
They don't own it, they don't own it, they don't.
And what happens is when you're with, you're around other gay people, you begin to reconstruct
your persona in odd ways.
(27:16):
I mean, your personality doesn't change.
Who you are doesn't change, but what you think of yourself changes because you're with other
people who treat you with dignity and respect.
And for many of us, that's a very refreshing experience we haven't had that before.
And we meet people who are like us.
And it builds up your self-esteem and it helps straighten your spine to deal with all the
(27:39):
problems you got to deal with.
So talk to people.
I recommend therapy.
Anybody who's got big problems, that she goes to therapy.
Family therapy sometimes is an option to consider talking to people.
But most importantly, just be yourself.
Live your life.
You only got one time around here.
(28:01):
And you shouldn't be living somebody else's life.
You got to be true to yourself.
And the cost is high to you, to you loved ones, to everything.
But it's, I don't know anybody that came out and regret it.
Not a single small.
Not a single small.
And a lot of times you don't see a light on the end of that tunnel or a real trunnel,
but it is there.
It just takes a while to get there.
(28:23):
You're right.
It takes a lot of patience.
So right.
Because you talked about some spouses are supportive at first.
And not later, some are not supportive at first.
And our later, some go up and down.
Same with family and friends.
You just have to live your life and be true to yourself.
You can't control the others in your orbit.
They're going to do what they believe is right for them.
(28:45):
It's just best that we be honest with ourselves.
I think that's true.
And I do think that it's worth every effort you can make to be there for your family,
and if they're rejecting you, you know, you've got to keep showing up.
And make sure to.
They have a support system.
(29:06):
So when you do come out to them, where is the spouse going to talk to?
Like you said, you didn't put restrictions on anyone.
You let them talk to others, communicate with others as they needed to.
Well, you bring up a good point.
I guess if you're planning this, it might be a good thing to get a copy of Aberdeen
Bucsidens, the other side of the closet, be ready to give it to your wife to show that you've
(29:29):
been your concern about her.
And this will maybe be at first step for her.
There are online support groups for those women too.
I think you can encourage your spouse to get therapy, to get family therapy.
There are a lot of other books loving someone gives a good one.
(29:49):
But some people are not readers.
Some people don't want to read about your life because they're too angry and it's all about
you and they get lost in the dust.
And that's how the wives feel.
So people coming out need to understand that the wife's perspective as well.
It's all party time and relief and happiness for the gay guy who's coming out.
Everybody's happy for them.
(30:09):
And congratulating him, telling them the proud of them and courage it took.
And then the wives were just left with nothing in the dust.
And that generates a lot of anger and resentment.
So I don't have a magic wand that I can give to anybody on how to deal with that.
But it helps to be very aware of it.
(30:30):
As you can deal with it better, at least if you know it's coming.
They have legitimate gripes.
I mean, they're right.
I know I didn't give those books to my former spouse, but I'd to read them myself to try
to understand the perspective of what might be going through her.
Well, that's another good thing to do.
Yes.
I come back out to do that as well.
(30:54):
But again, thank you, Larry, for your time.
And I appreciate all that you told us today.
Well, thank you, David.
It was my pleasure and an honor and anything I could do to help anybody, I'm always happy
to do.
As we know, there's no foolproof plan for coming out later in life.
But I think Larry Bess provided us some viable lessons he learned on his journey to happiness.
(31:18):
Larry stressed how important it is to keep showing up for your family, even if they're rejecting
you.
He also recommends seeking out support from groups like gay fathers worldwide.
As he put it, "When you're around other gay people, your self-esteem improves because
you're treated with dignity and respect."
I believe that's true.
Larry has published many stories about his life's adventures as a gay man coming out later
(31:40):
in life, and you can find them all at medium.com.
I'm David Cotton.
Join us next time for Outlate with David.
To hear more episodes, visit OutlatewithDavid.com and to learn more about personal life coaching
services, go to DavidCottenCoaching.com.
(upbeat music)
(32:02):
(upbeat music)
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