Mark Dembo - the weight of truth…a journey of self-discovery

Summary  

Mark Dembo shares his journey of coming out at the age of 59, reflecting on the challenges and transformations he faced in his relationships, particularly with his wife and children. He discusses the emotional weight of living a life that felt inauthentic and the liberation he felt upon embracing his true self. Mark emphasizes the importance of support from family and community, and the complexities of navigating a mixed-orientation marriage. His story highlights the potential for love and acceptance even in the face of significant life changes. Mark emphasizes the significance of love and understanding in navigating the challenges of coming out later in life, offering insights and advice for others on similar journeys.   Keywords   coming out, LGBTQ, self-discovery, relationships, family dynamics, support groups, acceptance, personal growth, authenticity, mental health  

Takeaways  

• Coming out later in life can be a complex journey.
• Self-acceptance often comes with emotional weight.
• Support from family is crucial during the coming out process.
• Navigating relationships requires patience and understanding.
• Community support can provide a sense of belonging.
• Publicly embracing one's identity can be liberating.
• It's important to allow space for emotions in relationships.
• Guilt is a common feeling for those coming out later in life.
• Maintaining friendships post-separation is possible.
• Every individual's journey is unique, but shared experiences can help.

Sound Bites  

• "I was living somebody else's life."
• "I consider myself so very lucky in who she is."
• "I want to do whatever I can to help."
• "You have nothing to feel guilty for."
• "I recognize that I didn't choose this."
• "I can't fight that; it's who I am."

Audio Chapters  

00:00 Mark's Journey of Self-Discovery
07:51 The Impact of Coming Out on Relationships
15:45 Navigating Family Dynamics
20:57 Finding Community and Support
26:05 Publicly Embracing Authenticity  


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YouTube Edition:  https://youtu.be/8RrNuddNU-c  

YouTube Channel:   https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvsthP9yClKI4o5LxbuQnOg  

Certified Professional Life Coach, David Cotton:  https://www.DavidCottonCoaching.com  

Contact me:  mailto:[e-mail]  

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
[Music]

(00:11):
You're listening to Outlet with David.
True story is coming out later in life.
And now here's your host, David Cump.
Hello. Welcome to Palm Springs.
The city where it's never too late to come out.
Today's coming out story has a happy ending.
Actually, from beginning to end, it's all a good story.

(00:34):
At age 59, when my guest came out to his wife and kids,
he was met with love and acceptance.
So much so, his wife, Hulkenwright, is coming out post on Facebook.
Today, Mark Dimbo joins me from his home in New York City.
[Music]

(00:57):
Hello, Mark and welcome.
Hey, David, great to be here today.
Let's set the stage.
You're happily married, two grown kids.
What kind of relationship did you have with your wife?
And how long were you married?
So we're married 32 years.
And you know, my wife and I have always been best friends.

(01:25):
As I've said to her numerous times and I still feel this to this day.
She's always been my soulmate.
There's probably nobody in the world that knows me as well as she does
and that I've ever been closer to.
Were you dating before you met her, though, others?
That's a great question.

(01:46):
When I look back and think about that, there had been people I had dated.
But nothing that I would say was ever a really serious relationship.
You find yourself dating because it's what you're supposed to do.
And what's expected of you.

(02:08):
But not in a serious relationship.
And I figured, well, eventually I'll find that one.
And that'll be the rest of my life.
And then I met my wife.
And here we are, 30-some odd years later.
Did you believe you were straight at the time

(02:28):
or have any thoughts about your sexuality?
You know, again, great, great question.
So for me, and I think like so many others, like us who come out later,
later in life, you spend your life doing what's expected.
Right?

(02:49):
I grew up in upstate New York.
I grew up in a Jewish household.
I was the good boy.
You're the one, you're going to go on and be successful.
And do all the right things and raise the family.
And that gets ingrained in you.
So did I grow up believing I was straight?

(03:14):
You know, in hindsight, the things you start to see
and to understand about yourself versus what you believe at the time
can be very different.
So I always told myself, oh, no, no, you're straight.
Oh, yeah, maybe you thought that kid was attractive
that you saw at the pool or you thought he was hot or cute.

(03:35):
It's like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, but you like girls.
You like girls.
And you convince yourself of that.
And you go on and you do the things that are expected of you.
So when you look at that mirror that day and said, dude, your gay, how did that feel?
And what brought you to that point to actually make that self-realization and pronouncement?

(04:01):
So it felt like a 10,000 pound weight had been lifted from my shoulders.
You know, I, and I've, as I've talked to so many other, so many other guys, I think this
is, you know, kind of a lot of common themes.

(04:22):
But you know, the way I describe it, I would often go through my life.
Like, I was living somebody else's life.
Almost like I was watching my own life in a movie, kind of detached.

(04:43):
But I never understood why.
I was like, you know, what is it?
You know, is it, you know, and I could never really put my finger on it.
From the day I admitted to myself who I am, that feeling has, I can't say completely
dissipated, but largely dissipated.

(05:04):
I don't go through my life because now, feeling that way because now I know I'm living my
life.
Whereas before I was like, am I living my life?
I don't know.
When will I know when my life begins, right?
What led me to that?
I think was the second part of your, you know, your question there.
You know, I've spent a lot of time pondering that with my therapist.

(05:25):
And I'm like, you know, why suddenly, you know, it's like, you know, life wasn't so
bad, you know, I mean, again, I had great relationship with my wife.
Wonderful kids.
You know, we were often looked upon as, you know, the model couple.
We were always great together.
And I think, you know, again, as I reflect on it, I think a number of things.

(05:47):
Being, you know, and I was 59, the thought of turning 60 starts, you know, kind of looming
in my head and you start, you know, thinking about your life, your legacy, your own
mortality, combined with the fact I was dealing at the time with a number of things going on

(06:08):
with my parents who are, you know, thankfully, both still with us right now, but having more
and more of their own health issues and really focusing a lot more on that.
So, you know, it was a lot of that, I'd say kind of realization of my own mortality and
taking stock of who am I?
And what, how much time do I have left?

(06:30):
And am I living fully to who I am for whatever time I have left to be on the surface?
It's struggling when you said 60 because you're not the first man I've heard talk about 60
is kind of a pivotal point, getting to mortality.

(06:50):
And if I extend that, it's, I know in my case, when I'm off on the planet, I wanted the
world to know who my authentic self really was.
So, I realized I was hiding for all those years.
The mask that I had that I tell people was three and a half feet thick and it's taken me
years to peel off the mask.
I didn't even have emotions and now I have emotions like, "Oh, these are interesting.

(07:11):
How do we deal with these things that I suppressed all those years?
I love my family and all of them."
But it's now it's a different feeling.
Absolutely.
That hiding, you know, that hiding it.
And one of the things that I've realized, you know, I talked about kind of that feeling
of detachment, what I've also realized that I didn't realize then was how much energy

(07:38):
I was spending, hiding myself, hiding from the world who I was and hiding it from myself.
That takes a lot of energy and you know what, David, it's exhausting and you don't realize
it.
So, you talked about taking that weight off of ourselves.

(07:59):
We take that weight off though.
It also puts it on to others like your wife.
How did she react to your coming out when you transfer that weight to her?
Yeah.
So, the initial reaction, I sat her down one day and said, "You know, I really want to
share something with you that I've come to understand about myself."

(08:25):
She was initially in shock, really had no idea.
And you know, again, initially went through, I think a lot of what, you know, what you'd
expect.
The shock, anger, hurt, you know, all of the questioning of why did you ever marry me,

(08:50):
has our whole life together been alive.
How do I even know, believe you that you say you're gay?
But we very quickly, and I do have to say, I do consider myself so very lucky in who she
is as a person.
Because even along with that, with that hurt, with that anger, she never, well, I didn't

(09:18):
say, I mean, she did at one point say, "How do I even know you're gay?"
But aside from that, you know, but even very quickly said, "I accept you for who you are."
But recognizing that, you know, and I even said to her at the time, "I recognize that,
you know, I'm basically taking a hand grenade and throwing it into our lives."
You didn't ask for this.

(09:38):
So as we, and luckily, and again, very thankfully, we found ourselves an excellent couples counselor.
We found somebody near us locally here who is queer herself.
She works with a lot of couples in our, you know, situations.
So really been able to guide us.

(10:00):
And I remember she said from the get-go.
She said, "Well, you know, first of all, neither one of you are, you know, my client, my
patient.
That's the relationship."
And I'm not here to tell you what to do either.
She said, "I'm here to help guide you through wherever you want to go.
There's no rulebook.
There's, you know, it's, and so she really helped us.

(10:23):
Basically, she set us, you know, the one piece of advice I'll give you from day one is slow
and steady.
You don't make any immediate decisions.
And so after kind of the initial shock of my coming out to her, we did go through a process
because again, we care deeply about each other.
Is there a way for us to stay together?"

(10:44):
And we explored that.
We tried that.
And, you know, at first, you know, we went down the road of well.
You know, she said, "I can accept you for being gay, but you think you could stay monogamous
to me."
And, you know, we got into things about, "Well, what does that mean?
And what's acceptable and what's not acceptable?"
It's like, "Well, okay, if you want to watch gay porn, I'm okay with that.

(11:05):
If you want to chat online with guys, I'm okay with that."
But, you know, quickly realized that wasn't going to work.
We did, you know, try and say, "Well, maybe there's a way to open the marriage."
She didn't have any interest in that on her side.

(11:26):
And I did, and I was out, you know, seeing other guys.
And it proved to be challenging.
And over time, we came to realize that because we do care so much about each other, and want

(11:50):
to maintain a relationship.
And I'll come back to that in a second, because, you know, this took some time on her end.
But ultimately, we realized the best way for us to actually preserve a relationship is
to separate.
And once we came to that recognition, our whole relationship changed.

(12:11):
Because suddenly, there was no elephant in the room anymore.
We've been able to adapt and adjust because of the care that we have for each other and
preserve what we can as we move forward.
We know that, you know, this isn't the end of our relationship.
It's about a new chapter.

(12:32):
That will look different, you know, absolutely.
I mean, we've talked about the fact that, you know, you know, she's even said, "I'm not there
yet, but I can envision at some point, you know, we're all at a family dinner or we're
at your place and I'm meeting, you know, with your future partner.
And we're all, you know, together and having fun and enjoying each other's company."

(12:57):
You know, I'm hopeful that we'll get there.
Yeah, I can't imagine having that conversation to where you keep the friendship and relationship
in a positive way.
Too many times, the opposite happens to where the spouses, they separate, they go their
separate ways and that's kind of the end.

(13:19):
I know I always tell folks, "Be patient if you want that relationship."
As you said, you know, go slow.
The go slow might be, you just need to wait and just represent yourself and be kind, caring
and compassionate.
And maybe someday that doorbell opened up again for that friendship that you desire if
you so desire it.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.

(13:39):
So look here on that path already.
Yeah.
It's kind of been our, I guess, our operating procedure from the get go, right?
It's like, "How do we maintain that?"
And I'm not going to lie and say it's been easy.
You know, we've all, you know, all of us that have been through this, right?

(14:00):
We all talk about the roller coaster.
It, I mean, you know, it has absolutely been a roller coaster.
I mean, I can't count the number of days, you know, going through this over the past, you
know, 18 months or so.
You know, I would just find myself in the car driving to the grocery store and just trying.

(14:23):
Who know, you know, for whatever, just the raw emotions.
I feel like, you know, it's been, you know, all these years of pent up emotions just coming
out.
And I think the hardest part of this has been the guilt and knowing even as, you know,

(14:44):
great as things can possibly be in my relationships with my wife, they're still a lot of guilt because
she didn't ask for this.
She didn't ask for any of this.
Yeah.
As a life coach, I'm committed to help you discover the passions in your life and help

(15:05):
you map a course to achieve the things you really want.
Together we will unwind those persistent self-doubt that are holding you back.
You'll begin to see your passions more clearly and set achievable goals.
Throughout your journey, I'll be there to challenge and encourage you in moving forward
to discover your authentic self.

(15:26):
For more information about my personal life coaching services, or to arrange a complimentary
consultation, visit DavidCuttonCoaching.com.
You're listening to Outlate with David.
So on that roller coaster, how did your kids handle the news when dad comes out as, hey,

(15:49):
I'm, hey dude, I'm gay.
Yeah.
So they, you know, when we told them, and I say we, because this was, again, it was last
March, and my wife and I were still trying to figure out, you know, okay, how, you know,
is there a path for us to stay together?
We were trying to work on that, and we said, we're going to tell them together.

(16:12):
So that they see that, you know, mom and dad are not with each other.
They could see that, you know, their mother accepts me for who I am.
And we've, you know, and even then when we were still trying to go through, is there a way
to stay together or mixed orientation marriage, we always said from the get go, look, we know

(16:34):
there's no guarantee of where this is going to land.
So we shared that, you know, with the kids, and we sat them down one day.
We sat together on the couch, the kids were across from us, and, you know, I kind of led the
conversation, but, you know, said very similar to what I had said to my wife.
We want to, I've come to understand this about myself.

(16:56):
It's something that denied for most of my life.
Again, I think the immediate reaction was a little bit of shock, but they both very quickly
were, dad, we love you.
We want you to be happy, and then it was, is mom okay?

(17:17):
Is mom going to be okay?
And that has been, you know, throughout, you know, kind of really the theme for them is complete
acceptance.
One of my daughters came up out to us a few years ago as being by, and even then, you know,
then it was before I'd come out, we were like, okay, you know, congratulations.

(17:39):
How can we support you?
And we want you to be happy and live your true life.
So the whole idea, you know, of somebody being queer in the family is something that we've
all been very comfortable with.
Did your daughters coming out as by give you any strength or courage to recognize yourself
as well?

(18:00):
I think to some extent it probably did.
I don't know that I consciously, you know, made that, made that connection, but yeah,
they probably did.
I think so.
Yeah, interesting.
Yeah.
Learn from our children.
Yeah.
Knowing you.

(18:20):
Exactly.
Absolutely.
You'd mentioned a few times about, you know, communities of like-minded individuals.
What groups did you find in activities to, you know, to engage?
Because here you are in your house, make that acknowledgement and then you get the family
and I go, what?
And then you get the next, you know, where are the people that are like me that I can talk

(18:42):
to and get comfort and support?
Absolutely.
Now, there's been a couple of groups that have really been instrumental and I think you've,
you know, talked about, you know, both of them on your podcast.
One of them is a group called How, Husbands Out to Wives, which is a phenomenal group for
men, again, coming out later in life.

(19:02):
So the large focus there on, you know, people who are trying to stay in their marriage and
a mixed orientation marriage and that can look, you know, the number of the guys that are
in that group.
It looks very different depending on who they are.
And then the other group that has really been a key for me is gay father's world wide.

(19:26):
In fact, I think I actually connected originally with gay father's world wide when you had
Sean on your podcast and then I connected with the group and very quickly in the gay father's
world wide group found what I felt like was my home to put it.

(19:48):
I'm going to get a little emotional here because I think about the men that I've met and
the friends that I've made where, again, for the first time in my life really felt
like these people get me and just the bonds there.

(20:08):
So I've made so many great friends in that group, both, you know, many people around the world
that I've never met in person, you know, but through the Facebook group, through chatting
with them, you know, phone calls and then many that I've had the opportunity where we've
been able to meet in person, some, you know, local to me and others we had a get together

(20:31):
over the summer in in Saga time Michigan.
We had about 30 gay dads together for the weekend and it was magical just to be with everybody's
story is different, but we're on similar paths and there's just this common understanding
and pure acceptance and it's wonderful.

(20:55):
It's beautiful and the power of that community and it's true they are around the world because
Sean's from Australia.
And I came out at the same time he, he went his path and I started doing this path so now we
are undersec which is like so while the universe is meant to be.
So I'm picking up my iPad here if I can open it up because earlier this year on Facebook

(21:19):
you came out publicly with a post that I understand your wife helped you put together.
Yeah, yeah.
Others are always looking for ways to share their realization about themselves to friends
and co-workers.
What drove you to actually put it out so publicly on something like a social media platform?

(21:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a phenomenal question and you know when I did first come out I said
from the get go, I said I am not looking to hide who I am.
I spent most of my life hiding, right?
And it's like I'm not, I'm not, I'm not ashamed of who I am.

(22:07):
You know, we talk a lot about in the gay community, you know, guilt and shame.
I mean, yeah, there's certainly some shame I think, but I've gotten past the, I don't feel
shame about who I am.
Again, the guilt has really loomed large, but I said I'm not going to hide who I am.

(22:28):
I did say at the time that I was like, but I don't feel the need to go out and you know,
shout it to the world or you know, post it on Facebook.
But what I found is as I shared with more and more people, with family, with friends and
friends, once my wife and I did decide that we were separating and yet we were still on

(22:51):
great terms and really aiming to keep our relationship that I did want the rest of the world
to know because for a number of reasons, it's who I am.
I want people to know who I am in my full persona, right?

(23:14):
So more and more, I just felt that pull and I've also felt more and more of a pull to want
to do whatever I can for other guys, other men that are, you know, going through similar
things to be a voice, whether it's, you know, men coming out later in life or whether it's,

(23:38):
you know, kids trying to figure out how do they come out.
I was like, you know what?
I've got, I'm lucky at a point in my life where whatever I can do to help and to be a voice
in that community, I want to do that and I just felt the timing was right for me to kind
of do that.
But at the same time, again, while we've been very, we've shared with family, with friends,

(24:04):
you know, I got to a point where I was like, everybody in my life that is important I'm
out to.
It's same, you know, same for my wife, she's been able to form, you know, from her friends,
great, great support group.
And before I, you know, did go and post that, I said to her, I'm thinking about this.

(24:25):
I want to make sure you're okay with it.
And I showed her what I was, you know, going to write.
And yeah, she felt very comfortable with it.
You know, her biggest concern was not so much about people finding out, she's like, I just

(24:48):
she said, I just need to be prepared because there's going to be people who are going to
read this that are going to reach out to me.
Everybody having to explain the story.
But ultimately no, she was very supportive of it.
And as I said, Jay, you even gave me a little bit of input into what I actually posted.

(25:10):
It's beautiful that you involved her.
It really goes to show how much you really want to keep that relationship with her.
You wanted her to be engaged and show that you didn't want to do further, say further
harm because we already know that by coming out, we harm, even though we don't mean it.
So from the post, is there some piece that resonates with you more than others that you'd

(25:31):
like to share for others or the whole post if you so choose?
Yeah, I'm happy to share, you know, what this is.
And you know, the other thing for me, I'll tell you I'll say, you know, there's been a few
other things that I've posted.
I also, not quite as much on a personal level as this that I'll share here in just a moment.

(25:52):
I made a similar post on LinkedIn and came out to the professional world.
And, you know, again, because I said, you know what, this is who I am.
I don't want to hide.
And it's been the feeling of being able to do that and be completely open and out has been

(26:12):
extremely liberating.
It really has felt wonderful to be able to do that.
So yeah, I wrote this post, it was just before Thanksgiving and you know, I used it as a
chance to reflect.
So I said, as Thanksgiving approaches, I've been reflecting on the past year, year of growth,
transformation and stepping fully into my truth.
This past year I came out as a gay man for some of you.

(26:35):
This may be new news and I wanted to share it here as part of my journey.
I talked about wicked because everybody was going to see the wicked movie and it did really
strike me.
You know, I said, I can't help but think about how much of my journey feels like Elphabas,
learning to defy gravity and embrace the parts of myself that I once felt I had to hide.

(26:58):
Like her, this journey has been about stepping more fully into who I am.
Shining light on a big part of myself, I kept hidden from the world and for far too long
from myself.
It's a process that requires courage, vulnerability and most importantly, the love and support of
those around you.
And what I really want to emphasize here is the fact that this has been a journey and I've

(27:18):
been lucky and grateful to have the support and I said, you know, to my family, I thank you
for standing by me with unconditional love and understanding.
You've reminded me that no matter what I'm never alone to my kids or my everything, your
love acceptance and joy light up my world.
And I'm mentally proud to be your dad to my wife, your compassionate unwavering support

(27:43):
of my anchor while our bond will be different as we move forward.
I know it will continue to grow in new and meaningful ways.
You're my best friend and soulmate and I'm so grateful to walk this journey with your
love and encouragement.
Yeah, the other point is that I made here is that this journey has been one of self discovery

(28:05):
and it's not always easy, but you know, for me, people have asked, well, you know, do you
ever regret it?
And there's probably been moments where, you know, we all like, why did I do this?
Why am I blowing up my life?
But I don't regret it.
And learning about ourselves isn't always easy, but it's worth it.

(28:32):
And again, the fact that you involved your wife, you know, how important was it for you
to share your gratitude for her publicly?
Oh, tremendously.
For a host of reasons, one, because as crazy as it sounds, I don't know that I could have

(29:03):
done this and be where I am without her.
And that sounds so contradictory, right?
And we've even said it that we recognize that it seems like a contradiction for us to
say, well, the way for us to maintain a relationship is to separate.

(29:27):
Granted, we know that relationship is going to look different.
It's going to be different.
But we knew that if we tried to stay together, she can't live her life.
I can't live my life.
They're constantly, you know, living in a state of uncertainty, waiting for the other shoe
to drop.

(29:48):
Am I going to come home and say I've met somebody and I'm like, you know, it's like, get rid
of that.
Right.
You know, and she has reminded me so often when I've been feeling at my lowest and guilty,
she'll come to me.
You didn't choose this.
You have nothing to feel guilty for.

(30:11):
She's been the one that's reminded me of that.
I had a conversation two weeks ago with my oldest daughter.
She said that to me.
My daughter said that to me.
You are so fortunate to be surrounded by such love and support.

(30:32):
I think you have what many men like you desire.
Very fortunate.
And I don't lose sight of that.
You know, I recognize I know not everybody, you know, has been able to have that.
Yeah, I've been very fortunate in that.
So, what do you think allowed this to happen for you to have that other man could learn from

(30:56):
your experience or emulate you as they go forward on their journey?
You know, I think I'll come back to what I said before and kind of the advice that our
couple of therapists had given us.
And that was kind of the take things slowly.

(31:19):
Don't even if you come out to your spouse, there's going to be anger.
There's going to be hurt.
It's going to be difficult.
Allow for that.
Allow for that.
Recognizing, you know, it's easy.

(31:41):
It could be really easy to dig in or to respond or, you know, and there were times where,
you know, I would have to concentrate on myself.
Look, I'm not going to get defensive.
I need to allow her and others to have the emotions.
They're legitimate emotions.
And to just sometimes you got to be in that difficult place, right?

(32:07):
And, you know, again, one of the things I've realized and said to myself, you know, many times
over this past period, you know, if I look back at where I am today, where my life was a
year ago or 18 months ago, it's been the most difficult time of my life.
And also the most fulfilling, but you have to go through that difficult time.

(32:30):
So I think it's recognizing there's going to be those ups and downs.
And again, David, you said, look, I recognize I've been very lucky.
But I think, you know, you can find that path.
And I think the other thing is for all of us as men coming out later in life, you got

(32:55):
to remind yourself, number one, you don't have anything to be guilty of.
You know, we didn't choose to be gay, but by the same token, once I recognized and admitted
to myself, it's like, you know what?
Okay, maybe I didn't choose this, but I'm going to embrace it because it is who I am.

(33:18):
So I'm not, I can't fight that.
And it's okay, it's okay to advocate for yourself.
So when I'm on your courage and your story, and thank you very much for sharing that today,
as we know, this will help others that hear this.
They'll have an example and they'll, they know that they will not be alone.

(33:41):
So thank you, Mark.
I really appreciate your time today.
That was my pleasure.
Mark, I think you can't be out later in life can be a very unique kind of coming out.
When marriage and children are involved, it's not something that's done alone.
It affects the lives of others.

(34:02):
It can be especially hard on a spouse who may feel cheated or lied to.
Mark's story may be rare, but it shows that a strong and loving relationship can survive
anything.
It takes a special kind of compassion to care more about the middle health of your closet
and spouse than keeping a traditional marriage intact.
And while his new life may not be exactly what he once expected it to be, Mark's loving

(34:26):
family is responsible for making it the best life possible.
We wish him all the best of luck.
Thanks for listening.
I'm David Cotton.
Join us next time for Outlate with David.
To hear more episodes, visit outlatewithdavid.com and to learn more about personal life coaching

(34:49):
services go to DavidCottonCoaching.com.
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