September 18, 2025 • 56 mins
Air Date - 17 September 2025
Bob Coppes, a scientist and retired banker, has studied Near Death Experiences for decades, trying to find proof and lecturing on this topic in the U.S. and Europe. His latest book on NDEs is called “Impressions of Near-Death Experiences”. It was published through the International Association for Near-Death Studies, of which he is a board member. His book is a compilation of hundreds of quotes from NDE experiencers offering verifiable evidence that NDEs are real. He is the author of several other books as well. He lives in Amsterdam, the Netherlands.
Websites: https://www.bobcoppes.com/ and www.ude-unconditionallove.com
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Bob Coppes, a scientist and retired banker, has studied Near Death Experiences for decades, trying to find proof and lecturing on this topic in the U.S. and Europe. His latest book on NDEs is called “Impressions of Near-Death Experiences”. It was published through the International Association for Near-Death Studies, of which he is a board member. His book is a compilation of hundreds of quotes from NDE experiencers offering verifiable evidence that NDEs are real. He is the author of several other books as well. He lives in Amsterdam, the Netherlands.
Websites: https://www.bobcoppes.com/ and www.ude-unconditionallove.com
#BobCoppes #RoyceMorales #PerfectLifeAwakening
Connect with Royce Morales at https://www.roycemorales.com/
Visit the Perfect Life Awakening Show Page https://omtimes.com/iom/shows/perfect-life-awakening-show
Subscribe to our Newsletter https://omtimes.com/subscribe-omtimes-magazine/
Connect with OMTimes on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Omtimes.Magazine/ and OMTimes Radio https://www.facebook.com/ConsciousRadiowebtv.OMTimes/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/OmTimes/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/omtimes/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Perfect Life Awakening Show hosted by Royce Morales.
Royce has been a transformational facilitator, teaching groundbreaking spiritually based
courses for more than four decades. She is the author
of three books about her teachings. Join Royce as she
takes you on a journey into how to live your
best life and find your true purpose through discovering the
(00:31):
origins of subconscious, disempowering notions and releasing them. She talks
with experts and inspiring people just like you who learned
to trust their intuitive inner wisdom, which led to life
changing shifts. Today, her guests live in empowered existence and
are helping change the world to a higher consciousness place
(00:52):
based on truth and love. You deserve to awaken to
align with and embody your true self and live a
life filled with love. Transform yourself from triggered to empowered
and create your perfect life. Here is your host, Royce Morales.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Hello, welcome everybody to my show. As always, I'm so
excited to be featuring this amazing person today who I'll
introduce in a minute. But I just want to say
I have been I can't really say obsessed with, but
very interested in near death experiences for as far back
(01:33):
as I can remember. I'm just, you know, mskeptic, and
I have to have proof, and it seems to me
that people that have near death experiences are offering a
lot of proof to us, very enlightening information, as our
guests will discuss, and I just feel like if everybody
accepted and believed this, which might be challenging for some people,
(01:57):
things would change. You know, there would be a choices
that would be made, people would feel like they were
awakened from this information. Lives will change, the world might
change if we just all understood this. And actually before
we came on, I was talking to Bob about some
of the issues that religion has caused in our world
(02:22):
because of some of the information and the views that
are expressed. So we'll talk about that too, but without
further ado, I want to introduce you to Bob Copez
and he is a scientist, a retired banker, and he
has studied near death experiences for decades, trying to find
(02:42):
proof and giving a lot of lectures on the topic.
His latest book on near death experience is called Impressions
of Near Death Experiences and it compiles hundreds of quotes
from ND experiences, offering verifiable evidence that NDEs are real,
(03:02):
and I can't wait to hear some of those stories.
He's a board member of the International Association for Near
Death Studies, which is an amazing organization. I've interviewed several
people from there, and he's going to share what he discovered,
especially some fundamental messages about unconditional love, interconnectedness, the importance
(03:22):
of love, and that we are not judged. That's the
title that I gave this show because I thought that
was the most important thing that he's going to talk about,
because so many of us are kind of living in
fear that, oh my god, I did these terrible things
and I'm going to land in hell and all of
that stuff that we were taught. So welcome, Bob. I'm
so glad you're here.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Thank you Royce for having me. It's really wonderful to
talk to you on the other side of the ocean.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Oh I know, tell everybody where you are.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I live in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, so there's nine hours
difference between us and your Where you are, it's morning
and here it's already evening.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Oh good, well, I'm glad you stayed up.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Well, it's six o'clock in the evening. That's okay. I
don't go to that early.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, So just tell us a little bit about your background.
I know you were in banking and you have your
PhD and all of us. Tell us about that, just
to maybe add some more information about you, and of
course how you got into this, I think is the
most important.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Yeah, I understand it.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah, it's I'm I was born in America, by the way,
but that's in South America, and my parents traveled around
and we landed in the country that my parents came from,
the Netherlands. I went studying economics, but I was very
interested in spirituality. So it shows that you can be
(04:57):
both aonomist and interested in spirit Sometimes I feel like
I'm in a split, but it's okay. It went well,
and I was very interested in things like well add things,
but I didn't want the woo woo part. And then
(05:18):
suddenly I came across the book written by Raymond Moody,
and that's fifty years ago. It's an anniversary now it's
a golden anniversary. And he coined the term near death
experiences and that really struck with me because I was
brought up Roman Catholic with Helen Purgatory. And I didn't
(05:39):
particularly like that part, not that it's scary only, but
it's also that it didn't resonate with me.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
I felt it was not right.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
And there in this book there was a story of
someone who had a near death experience and a live review,
and in the life review she said there was no judgment,
and I thought, this is it, this is how it is,
because why would there be a need for a judgment,
and why would some people be just cast away in
hell and things like that. And then I started really
(06:13):
to look into this.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
But on the other.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Side, I was also needing a job to pay the
bills and to do stuff like that, and I went
into banking. I finally made also my pH d. And
then I went into the central bank, something like the
Federal Reserve in your country, and then I got rid. Well.
Then during that last bit twenty years ago, twenty five
(06:38):
years ago, I started really looking into MDS again, and
I came across the International Association for Near Death Studies
in your country. It's a wonderful organization. But I discovered
that there was also on my side, very close by,
an organization that looked into this and studied this, and
(07:00):
so sometimes you look far away and it's very close by.
And they had done very important research on near death
experiences and there was so important that research that it
was also published in the Lancet, and the Lancet is
a very high and very good quality medical journal, and well,
(07:27):
that's where I also had very much interest in.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
But then I.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Wrote a few books, one of them on religions and NDEs,
and the latest one is with hundreds of quotes of nds,
as you said yourself, and I particularly liked that book
so much because it gives a good overview of what
an MD is. And when I was young, when I
was in my twenties and read the first time this
(07:57):
book by Raymond Moody, I wanted to have more quotes,
more inside information about ends, and more from a large
variety of people.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
And that's what I did in this book.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Wow. So I keep thinking, gosh, what an interesting balance
of two sides of your brain. Generally when I when
I meet people that are involved in banking and that
sort of you know, mind stuff, the other side of
(08:31):
the spiritual side is really neglected. So I'm proud of
you that you're balanced in that way. That's great, and
I think that adds more validity to what you're doing too.
It's you know, like you said, it's not some woo
woo out there thing. You know, it's very it's very
grounded and filled with information directly from the horse's mouth.
So that's great, and not only in that.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
But also research that's been done, because for me, these
stories are wonderful stories. Near death experiences are really amazing stories,
but they remain like fairy tales if you don't have
some proof with it. And some of the proof came
from this study that I saw in the Netherlands and
(09:14):
that was reproduced again in the United States and the
UK with the same kind of outcome. And there is
other wonderful research done on this side, like getting more
circumstantial evidence for near death experiences to be true.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
So when you say proof, how do they actually prove
some of this stuff? You know, what does that mean? Really?
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Yeah, well that's really tough. A proof that this really
exists is not there, and I doubt if it will
ever be there, but there is a lot of circumstantial
evidence that it is there, that these stories are Maybe
I should should tell something more about the prospective study
(10:04):
that's done in the Netherlands and reproduce in your country
as well. Is like they prospective means that it's reproducible,
so someone else can do the same kind of study
and then maybe find the same answers. This was ten
years that they had a protocol where they had thirteen
hospitals in the Netherlands and every time there was a
(10:26):
cardiacer reci patient that was brought into the hospital, they would,
of course after resuscitation, ask this one question, do you
have a recollection of you being out the time that
you are not there in your mind? And there were
like eighteen percent out of the three hundred and forty
(10:48):
four people in the database that had a recollection and
those were the near death experiences. And the interesting thing
is then that you have two groups, one with and
one without the ND and if there is a difference
between these two groups, then that might trigger an MD.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Well.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
The most important thing from this study is that oxygen
and lack of oxygen or substances that are created and
dying brain are not a cause because both groups had
a lack of oxygen and both group groups had a
dying brain that could possibly create these substances. So those
(11:28):
two and a lot of other things were ruled out
as a cause, but we still don't know what the
cause is now. The other kind of research that's being
done is case studies, where you really look into cases
of near death experiences. But these cases need to be
(11:49):
giving information that can be confirmed later on. Let me
give you an example there, because for listeners it might
be sounding like what is he talking about? You have
to think that an end the ear at one point
leaves his body. When he or she leaves the body,
then sometimes they have time to look around. You know,
(12:12):
people that leave their body are really in awe and
surprise that they can see around and they see the
doctors do things. They see their body and sometimes oftentimes
by the way, they don't recognize this body as theirs.
So but they can see what is happening. They can
see what the doctors do. They can see what is
happening at the crash side of the car if they
(12:34):
die there. And then later when they after their end,
when they go fly out to this other world environment
and come back again, they can tell well, I saw
the doctor do this and that, and or I say
other things and that. Then these items, these details need
to be confirmed independently by a third party that's subs
(12:58):
that makes a ritical observation, so an observation that is real.
So you have done an observation during your near death experience,
and it has been confirmed that that has been the case.
And these cases where and the ears see what the
doctors do show you that the consciousness can be outside
(13:25):
the body. It doesn't need the body be to have
your consciousness. That's the main thing that comes out of it.
That is one aspect of vertical observation, and that's when
you see things around here on earth. But there are
also vertical observations where observations are made in the other world,
(13:48):
the environment that can be confirmed later on, also independently.
And I'll give you an example there there was a
woman who had her medical critical situation, she had her
near death experience. She went outside her body. She saw
family in doing certain stuff. So that's the one category
(14:11):
of the very corpsivations. But then she went to this
otherworldly environment and she met with, as she said, diseased relatives.
And one of the diseased relatives came forward and said,
and it was a man, and presented himself as a
baby and said to her, if you have to go down,
(14:34):
you have to go back again, and when you see
your father, ask him about me, because I'm your brother,
and remember how I look like, how I was dressed
as a baby.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
And then she.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Said I didn't have a brother. And then she has
to go back to her body again after being restored
again or how do you say that? Recorporated again? Then
she speaks with her father, and the father confirms this,
and this whole story has been confirmed independently, that this
(15:14):
really happened, that she really said these things, that the
father acknowledged it, and that is being seen or established
by a third party. Those things are important. They are
case studies, but there are so many of these case
studies that it gives you circumstantial evidence that these stories
(15:38):
are based on reality.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I have to ask what was her father's reaction to that?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Well, surprise, of course, because well most of the time,
if people say to their relatives or friends that they
have been in this other world environment or that they
have seen their body from a different perspective, then people
have very strange reactions. Some people don't believe it, and
(16:05):
they will think the endears is crazy. But nowadays it's
more common knowledge that NDEs are there. So now people
become more interested in well did you really see that?
And things like that, But in former times and maybe
still people were met with unbelief and with also I
(16:28):
know of one person that was told, if you go
on talking to me like that, I'll have you put
in an asylum.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Oh wow, yeah, well even nowadays.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Wow, Well that was like twenty twenty five years ago,
I think this case, but maybe now it still happens.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, well I remember reading a few years ago, well
maybe ten or fifteen years ago that a lot people
in the medical fashion we're still trying to blame it
on some kind of hormone that got activated during death
or the drugs that the person was taking that they
(17:11):
still have that notion about it. Has that changed at all?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Well, that is the point where this research that was
done in the Netherlands and reproduced in the US and
the UK is so important because there it is established
that substances and the brains do not cause this, or
it's ruled out that that's the cause. We still don't
(17:39):
know what the cause is, but if you look at
the other kind of evidence, you might want to conclude
that there is this other world environment that we will
go to.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Wow. So some of the messages that you write about
in your book, you've kind of divided them up into
various categories. Tell us a little bit about the common
messages or information that people get from these experiences. I
think that's so interesting.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah. For me, it was so interesting to try to
find all these quotes from people because I wanted to
categorize them. If you study NDEs, well, there are a
number of things that keep popping up. Of course, how
(18:33):
do you get out of your body? That's interesting too,
because sometimes those stories are very funny or interesting. One
of them I really like is this person said, it's
getting out of your body is so easy. It's amazingly easy,
because it's like a toast popping out of a toaster.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Well, getting into your body.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
There are a lot of stories too, very funny worries
as well, and then everything in between, like of course
the ritical Observations.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
That's one of the chapters in my book.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
I find it so important to show people that there
is real research going on and that there is a good,
circumstantial evidence to show that NDEs are real, that they
are not just nice stories. And then of course the
central things like the light and the love, the unconditional
(19:32):
love that is there for everyone. There seems to be
no exception for this. This love is there for anyone
from any walk of life. It is not only there
for Christians just to mention a few, or for It
happens to men and women. It happens to rich and poor.
(19:53):
It happens everywhere in the world. There are stories in China,
in New Zealand in my book. There are stories in Africa, Europe,
of course, in the United States, South America, Iran, the Middle East, everywhere.
These things happen everywhere India, I cannot mention all the
(20:15):
countries in the world, but that's the case. And then
another thing that I found so very important is that
there is this oneness. People that have had an NDE
talk about that we are very closely connected with each other,
and that this connection is very very profound, and some
(20:38):
people even go further than that. I just quote people
in my book, and so people say, we are part
of this oneness, we are just one. You may not
feel it now because you're sitting there and your listeners
are somewhere else, and I'm sitting on this side of
the ocean. But once there on the other side, in
this other world environment, we will understand that we were
(21:00):
all part of the same source. So the source produces
sparks that are in each of the people and the
animals and the plants and wherever. So that is important
for me. These two are the most important things because
if you really acknowledge critical observations so that ends are real,
(21:27):
and you then look at the central points in NDEs
and those are unconditional.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
Love is very very important.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Everything seems to be made up of that, and that
we are part of one, that we are oneness. Then
if I do something to you, I actually do it
to myself, and there you should start thinking, Okay, now
I have to think twice before I do something. I mean,
(21:57):
the nasty things, the loving thing, you don't have to
think twice. But you know, the thing is with people
that study NDEs or that have had an NDE or
are interested in them, they tend to go that way.
And that's they are still not Satans. I just want
to mention that as well, but it's there is a
shift in them. And the other very interesting thing in
(22:21):
my book is life reviews. That's really interesting because a
live review is exactly what it is. You can see
your whole life being played out in front of you.
You will be part of it. You can see it
from your point of view, but you can also see
it and that's where it starts to become very strange
(22:41):
from the point of view of all the people you
acted with. So you're not only the doer, but you're
also the receiver and that is what makes people change.
And I want to stress also that not everyone has
a live review. Not you know, the whole near death
experience is. There are categories and parts of it, but
(23:04):
it's not like everyone has every part of an NDE.
Some people only talk about meeting their disease relatives and
the light. Some people have a live review, others don't.
Some people travel through a tunnel, others don't, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
So before we take our break, I just have to
go back to what you were saying about not being judged.
You know, I have my viewpoint on that because I
know that everybody here has a role to play. Everybody
here is supposed to bring something to this world, whether
(23:45):
it be something beautiful or something horrible, or wars or
you know, politicians no names mentioned. So how does that
fit with the life review. So, for example, if somebody
like Hitler is having a life review, would he hear
(24:05):
that you did good because you woke up a whole
bunch of people the horrendous nature of war or whatever
it was that he was supposed to do by doing
what he did. Do you ever think about that or
get into information about that from people?
Speaker 3 (24:21):
I do think about that, And the thing that is
central to my study of das, what I really get
out of ends is that when people have their live review,
they can see whatever they did. It can be nasty,
it can be really horrible. You mentioned someone. I leave
(24:44):
it there because there are you can mention so many
people that did horrible things, and we ourselves are all
sayings either. So we might have done not very nice
things in our lives. But what I know from Enders,
and that's system. He said, there is no judgment. There
is only unconditional love for you, not for you only,
(25:07):
but for everyone. There's no exception, otherwise it wouldn't be
unconditional love. And I don't know how it plays out
with Hitler or others, but one of the things in
NDEs is that when you see your life, you see
also the other side. So you become the other side.
(25:28):
You become the person you did something horrible to and
you see it from their point of view. Now, if
you have done horrible things to many people, then you
have a lot to do in your life review you will.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Let me put it like this.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
I've spoken to I know a few cases where people
have had I have done so many terrible things like
killings and numbers of well, a.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Series of killings.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
They said they met with love, unconditional love. The light
was loving for them.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
But the.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Live review, he.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Said that was so so painful, and that's only very
weak put it in a weak way.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
It's really really.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Painful for him, and I can only imagine what will
happen to others. But there is no judgment and there
will always be love coming to you because we are
all part of this source. I think that's the case.
And you touched upon something very important. We all have
to do something. There is a reason for our lives.
(26:40):
We fail to understand what it is. It's very difficult,
but we know from in the years. So many of
them they say, well, we have a task. Each of
us has a task. That's why we are important. Every
single one is important, not only your present or mar king.
Also the beggars in the streets, the teachers, the garbage collectors,
(27:03):
the wood car for anyone, anyone is important. And one
person said, even if you are not, if you don't
have a task, you wouldn't be here. You would go back.
If your task is done, you would go back, right.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah. And so these people that have done horrible things
for some reason, they needed to do that to wake
us up or to help other people clean up their
karma or whatever it is. So there's some device.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
I don't know these things and endears in general. Some
people say this some people, but other people don't know.
They don't say these things. So it's not something that
I can derive from all these NDEs. But it could
well be. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
And do people that have NDEs do they get a
sense of why they have to come back? Is there
kind of you need to come back?
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Because oh yeah, that's interesting. The funny thing is some
people are told you have to go back. You're not
ready yet, you are not done. You have to do
things on earth, so go. And sometimes there's a struggle.
I don't want to go and stuff like that. And
then but sometimes in these cases, people are shown the
(28:24):
reason why they chose to be on earth and that
they are not finished yet, and then they said okay,
I'll go, and then once they are back in their body,
they can't remember why they were there. I have not
spoken to one single person who knew exactly what the
reason was to be back again. But there is another
category of people that want to go home and ask
(28:49):
to go go home, or are given the choice. They
are given the choice, well, if you want to stay,
you can stay. If you want to go back, will
mend your body. Sometimes that happens, and those things are miraculous.
There are cases like Anita Mr Johnny, but not only her,
she's kind of famous with her book. She was in
(29:14):
a cancer state that she was really given up and
she died and she wanted to go back, and then
they said, well, if you go back, we will mend
you very quickly, and that happened within a few weeks
she was up and about again. Amazing, amazing stories and
real verified.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
So it's just interesting to me that they would be
told what their purpose is and then they would forget
once they're a body. That's kind of frustrating.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Yeah, but I have a thinking about that. I thought
maybe if you know what that is, you would go
rush do that because you want to go back. Most
people who have had a near death experience, I want
to be here.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Here is it's hate.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
And there is struggle and strive and there's no love there,
there's unconditional love. It's wonderful. Why would you want to
be here? So if they knew what the task is,
they would just rush and do it and then sit
down and say now I can go. And that's not
the purpose. You have to do more than.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Only sitting down and the well, I guess that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
That just sounds so frustrating.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Yeah, yeah, I know, but it's still interesting that it's
important to do things here on earth. It's it's very
important to just be here and experience life.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, so let's take a bit of a break and
just to remind anybody that's watching, if you are watching live,
you can send over some questions so you have If
you have any questions about near death experiences or want
to ask Bob or myself anything, feel free to text over,
but we will be right back.
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Speaker 2 (33:30):
Hello, welcome back. I'm talking with Bob Coopis and we
are talking about near death experiences and all of the
verifiable information that he has gathered through the years. I
just think that's so fascinating. I thought of a really
interesting rom Dos quote during the break that I have
(33:52):
to mention. You were talking about people talking about how
easy it is to leave the body, and I remember
Ramdas saying death is like taking off a tight shoe.
I just think that's so perfect.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
So that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Because people that go back in their bodies say, well,
it was just a diverse suit or so that I
had to be squeezed into, and it was awfully small,
and it didn't really fit. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah, yeah, so my babies are uncomfortable.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
A lot of times.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
They're like, what what I'm in this body? And you
have to change my diapers and h So. Yeah, so
we were talking before we came on about some of
the religious dogma, and you were saying that a lot
of really religious people have a hard time believing in
near death experiences and you know, the heaven and hell
(34:54):
information that they've been fed. Talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Interesting thing is there are some art facts that are
interesting happening with and the years, they they tend to
become less religious and more spiritual because they some and
the years really say that they abhor all the dogmas
that they were brought up with. Sometimes they struggle with
(35:23):
how to leave that all behind because it's sometimes so
invested into you that that you can't get really rid
of it. But people become more spiritual, less religious, or
they become interested in other religions just to see how
it is there. Yeah, that that's that's what happens generally,
(35:48):
and dogmas, those are things they really don't like very much.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah. Yeah, obviously, you know, if you if you've experienced
something completely different, it would be hard to go back
to that dogma.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Yeah, yeah, because things that they have seen oftentimes are
totally different from what they have been taught. Like in Christianity,
for instance, it is taught that only people that believe
in Jesus will be allowed.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
To go to Heaven.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Same thing happens in Islam. If you believe in the
prophet and believe in Allah, you might go there as
long as you have been nice on earth. Same with
other religions. There's like everyone excludes each other, if you
want to put it like that, But that's really the case.
(36:48):
That is how religions teach their subjects. But if you
listen to near death experiences, they say it is open
for anyone. The real thing is much bigger than any
one religion. God is not from the Bible or from
(37:11):
the Koran. God is so much more, so much bigger.
I just quote people about this, So this is what
they say. They don't like dogmas anymore. They see that
religions are confining and God is everything that is liberated.
(37:31):
Liberal or maybe that's the wrong term because it's also political,
but it's freedom. It's freedom to great extremes.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yeah yeah, well you were mentioning that even the concept
of original sin is not in the Bible, and I
thought that was pretty interesting. Tell us a little bit
about that.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Yeah, that's the interesting thing that I came across when
I studied the several five big main religions in the world,
and one of them is, of course, the religion that
I was brought in up into, that was Roman Catholicism.
And original sin is very important there because Adam and
Eve ate from the forbidden tree, forbidden fruit from that tree,
(38:18):
and they were expelled from Paradise. And ever since, this
sin stuck to every baby that was born on earth.
That's the idea steaks to you, it sticks to us anyone,
even if we don't know Adam and Eve anymore. And
the only one that could redeem that was Jesus. The
(38:41):
whole notion, the term original sin is nowhere to be
foundly in the Bible. Just you can check it online
and then in control find original sin. It's not there,
not in the original Jewish Bible, not in the Gospel.
Jesus never mentioned it. And now Jesus was a very
(39:03):
important person because he was the most loving person, the
most empathetic person there is. And if you thought that
it was very important. He would have mentioned.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
It probably, yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
And he didn't mention it. It was fabricated something like
three hundred or four hundred years after Christ. The first
one to do that was Augustine, that's the main church father,
a saint who thought that the earth was only six
a thousand years old, and he thought of this concept
(39:41):
of sin, that there should be a reason why Jesus
didn't come back again. Jesus when he left he said,
I'll return very quickly, and after four hundred years he
wasn't there yet. So they had to find another reason
for him being put to death, and that was to
redeem this sin. Later, I think in fourteen hundred or so,
(40:03):
we have Thomas of Aquino, and he really thought about
dogmas that would show that sin is very important in
all this and for Christianity, and you can only go
to heaven if you were baptized in Christ. Now that
brings brought him and others in a bit of a
(40:27):
difficult situation, because what do you do with Adam and Eve,
and with Moses and with Abraham. They are very important
people in the Bible. Would they not go to heaven?
But they can't go to hell? So they it's actually
they thought of an adjacent place to heaven where these
(40:49):
people could be. But they couldn't go to heaven because
they weren't baptized in Christ. Nor are the little children
that were that died before they would be meptized. You
couldn't send them to hell. No, that's awful. But they
couldn't go to heaven either, So they go to another
place that's adjacent. So they had all these places. It's
(41:11):
really ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
That's how the thing was. I mean, it's silly.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
I think it's silly, but every religion has these things.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Yeah, yeah, I because I talk about reincarnation a lot
in my program. I've done some research on the whole
issue of reincarnation and religion, and from what I've seen,
Jesus talked about reincarnation.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
He talks about it.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
But they took it all out of the Bible. Some
pope took it all out because they wanted control over
their people, and they said, well, if you think you're
coming back, you're going to do whatever you want because
it won't matter, you know, So to gain control over
these masses of people said, oh no, you know, if
you do that, you're going to go to hell or heaven.
(42:03):
There's nothing, no other option for you.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
So yeah, yeah, I've heard that too, that there were
passages in the Bible where with references to reincarnation. Also,
I think when he with Elijah, I think John the
Baptist was thought of as being Eliah before something like that.
(42:30):
So but they forgot to take that out.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Oops. Yeah, they didn't do a control search, you know.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
No, no, you couldn't do it then.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Oh wow, So okay, So tell us give us some stories.
I'm sure you've got so many stories in your book.
Tell us a couple of stories that really stand out
to you about all of this.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Yeah, of course I can. Let me tell you a
story about the Dutch lady here that I spoke and
she was a small child in the war, in the
Second World War and after the World War, the Nedas
was a war torn country. We didn't have any luxury goods.
(43:13):
Everything was damaged. So the mother gave her suites to
share with friends in school. She had some sweets and
she took them to school and shared them. Well. Later
on in her life, this little girl, when she had
her near death experience, she had the live review and
in her life review she saw this episode where she
(43:35):
shared the suits with the school friends, and she noticed
not only her perspective but also the perspective of the
school friend she was the school friends, and she thought, wow,
I'm thought of so valuable that I can get these
suits from this person. And it didn't stick only with
(43:57):
her with the school friend, but she's she noticed that
this ripple that she created, this wonderful ripple, was spread
also to the mother of the child that she'd never seen.
And it went even further than that. And that learned
me because I hear these stories more often. Whatever you do,
(44:20):
it creates ripples and they go to places.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
You don't know.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
So better create nice ripples because they create nice effects.
And still if you create bad ripples or painful ripples,
you're not being judged. There's no punishment on the other side.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
But they better not.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Do them because you will not like it. You will
not like your life review if you see the nasty
things and the effect that it has on others. Now,
she noticed that also when when in her in the
same near death experience, she had also this other episode
as a little girl where she was asked by one
(45:01):
of the school friends to get rid of the lice
in her hair, and at that time there were no shampoos,
so you had to do that manually. Consider how that is.
It's very painstakingly. You have to go through the air
and this and the and the ear. When she was small,
she would say, okay, come on, I'll do that for you,
(45:22):
and she did it in such a loud way that
everyone heard that. And then in her life review she
felt how that was. She felt the pain on the
part of the little school friend that she was exposed
with lice in her hair, and that really hurt her
(45:43):
very much, and she felt it from that point of view.
And the other thing that was important in this respect
is that she saw that there were options, other options
that she could have chosen. And that is something that
I hear often from end the ears. You don't only
get to see what you did, but you get to
see also what you.
Speaker 4 (46:04):
Could have done a better.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
An other let me put it this way, another way
of acting, and that would have created more love in
the world and still no judgment and still no punishment.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
You chose for that.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
And it's also the idea there is that you chose
for this because you came from this and this direction.
You had these parents, this upbringing, you had this education,
you had this pain that caused this, that caused you
to do this, So it doesn't come out of the blue.
Whatever you do, there's a reason for it that you
(46:44):
do that, But you could have chosen something else.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
So a question about that. I talk a lot about.
One of the reasons that we're here is to clean
things up that we've done in the past, that we've
forgotten about or suppressed. So if somebody is conscious of
you know, gosh, I stole that book when I was
ten years old, and I now remember it. I want
to clean it up, and I'm going to go to
(47:08):
the library and donate a bunch of books on their
life review. Would that be something that would come up
or would it be kind of neutralized because they cleaned
it up.
Speaker 4 (47:19):
I wouldn't know that.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
But there is a funny story about a guy who
had his life review, and in his life review, he
saw that he had millions of girls because he was
a very handsome guy.
Speaker 4 (47:32):
But he cut off the ties with.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
These girls in a very painful.
Speaker 4 (47:38):
Way for the girls.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
And he saw what he did and it was so
horrible for him. So he grew up a list of
the girls that he had dated and try to find
them and apologize. And I don't know what that would
do for well. I think in his next live review
he will see that and that it has some kind
(48:01):
of soothing effect, but I don't know how that would
play out in reincarnation and reincarnation is something that some
people in NDEs do see their previous lives and future lives,
but there are also people that say, I can't relate
to it. And interestingly, there was a study done that
(48:22):
the number of people a number of endears or the
percentage of endears that believe in reincarnation is the same
as in the general public. So it's not conclusive. Let
me put it like that.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Yeah, it's interesting these things come out of studies.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Well, what about I've interviewed several people that have experienced
what they call distressing and details.
Speaker 4 (48:49):
Oh yeah, do you know.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Anything about that or what are your feelings about that?
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (48:55):
That's also.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Let me just flash my book one second. There's Impressions
of Near Death Experience with hundreds of quotes, and one
chapter in it is also about distressing NDEs. And if
people touch upon that, I really want to explain that
they are there.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
It's a subset.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
It's a small number, although we don't know how much
it is, how many people have that because you don't
go bragging about having a hellish experience. But having said that,
there is sufficient research done to say that we cannot
conclude that distressing NDEs are only there for bad people
(49:37):
quote unquote, because bad is something. The words good and
bad are not are from the earth, they are not
from the other side. They have no meaning. That's what
I learned from endears. So bad people not only don't
necessarily get a distressing end they occur also with with
(50:00):
people that are just very common and blissful. Endase occur
also with people that have been quote unquote bad. There's
this story in my book also about Danian Brinkley, who
killed off so many people that in his live review,
that's the person that I refer to before. In his
(50:23):
live review, he sees the pain on the part of everyone,
but not only the victim's pain, but he also sees
the pain on the part of the women that are
left behind and the children of these victims. So he
sees very much. He sees it very close by. He
(50:43):
sees it as if he is them. But he still
has a wonderful experience. The live review is really very painful,
but the experience itself, he's met with unconditional love. Now
other people have that are very similar to you and me,
or the listeners have had hamlish experiences. The current thinking
(51:10):
is that it is caused by the collective conscience that
pop pops up with images or they pop up from
your own history. And I've spoken to several ends with
distressing elements in it, and they said, well, if I
(51:32):
come to think of it, these distressing elements come from
my fear, for instance, of being put into hell because
I was taught that in my religion that if I
if I don't behave very well, and I didn't always behave,
so now I have to go to hell, or because
(51:53):
they are so afraid of elements that pop up in
there in there and they and the distressing end like
for instance, attracting a's being prostituted, meeting people you don't
know and they are awful to things like that can
pop in your NDE. But I believe it will not
(52:16):
stay that way if you have an ND because there
why would there be a distressing part in universe where
people go to Because we are part of one and
nd ears. There have been several nds that to explicitly
(52:37):
that there is no hell and purgatory. I believe that interesting.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
I know the one person I was thinking of that
I interviewed, she had a horrible experience and she believed
strongly in heaven and hell. But when she came back
into her body, she this became her purpose to tell
people about NDEs, especially distressing, and she's written books about
it and she lectures about it, and she knows that
(53:04):
this is why it happened to her, to wake her
up to her true purpose. So that's pretty interesting too.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
Yeah. There is also the idea that distressing and is
also have beneficial effects on people. So there's one book
with a lot of distressing des in it and it's
called Blessing in Disguise, So it is it is something
not so very nice, but it helps you in your life. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yeah, Well, we are getting to the point where we're
going to have to say goodbye, So why don't you
give us one more wonderful story from your book.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
The story that I like it best is of a
little girl that was assaulted by a few men and
they tried to drown her, but she was.
Speaker 4 (53:51):
Well.
Speaker 3 (53:51):
Her father came to her rescue. But in the meantime,
when she was sort of drowning, she had her near
death experience. She went through the tunnel and at the
end of it it was blocked by an elderly person
and she later said it couldn't have been anyone else
but God. And she was eight years old, and she
said she had a conversation with him and he told
(54:15):
her to go back. But life is easy. It has
only four ingredients. And these ingredients are love, be loved,
just be and experience life. And I like this quote
so much because it stresses again the love component, but
(54:35):
not only giving love, but also allowing people to give
you love, which is sometimes also difficult, and just to
be and to experience life. Also when there are problems.
Problems are not there to tease you or to make
you unhappy. While they make you unhappy, but it's part
of life. It's something we should also try to get through.
(55:01):
And it's painful for people, I know.
Speaker 2 (55:04):
Yeah, Well, as John Lennon said so profoundly, love is
all there is.
Speaker 4 (55:12):
Yes, that's it.
Speaker 3 (55:13):
That's the main thing. That's interesting thing that you say that,
and the years say that love is the only thing
that's it.
Speaker 2 (55:21):
So show us your book and tell people how to
reach you, because we've got like thirty seconds.
Speaker 4 (55:26):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (55:27):
You can reach me through my website, which is www.
Bobcopus dot com and you can click on the images
where you can find it on Amazon.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
Thank you so much, Bob, keep up the good work.
Speaker 3 (55:42):
Thanks you too, wonderful Royce, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
You are welcome and I'll see everybody next week. Thanks
for joining us. H
Welcome to the Perfect Life Awakening Show hosted by Royce Morales.
Royce has been a transformational facilitator, teaching groundbreaking spiritually based
courses for more than four decades. She is the author
of three books about her teachings. Join Royce as she
takes you on a journey into how to live your
best life and find your true purpose through discovering the
(00:31):
origins of subconscious, disempowering notions and releasing them. She talks
with experts and inspiring people just like you who learned
to trust their intuitive inner wisdom, which led to life
changing shifts. Today, her guests live in empowered existence and
are helping change the world to a higher consciousness place
(00:52):
based on truth and love. You deserve to awaken to
align with and embody your true self and live a
life filled with love. Transform yourself from triggered to empowered
and create your perfect life. Here is your host, Royce Morales.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Hello, welcome everybody to my show. As always, I'm so
excited to be featuring this amazing person today who I'll
introduce in a minute. But I just want to say
I have been I can't really say obsessed with, but
very interested in near death experiences for as far back
(01:33):
as I can remember. I'm just, you know, mskeptic, and
I have to have proof, and it seems to me
that people that have near death experiences are offering a
lot of proof to us, very enlightening information, as our
guests will discuss, and I just feel like if everybody
accepted and believed this, which might be challenging for some people,
(01:57):
things would change. You know, there would be a choices
that would be made, people would feel like they were
awakened from this information. Lives will change, the world might
change if we just all understood this. And actually before
we came on, I was talking to Bob about some
of the issues that religion has caused in our world
(02:22):
because of some of the information and the views that
are expressed. So we'll talk about that too, but without
further ado, I want to introduce you to Bob Copez
and he is a scientist, a retired banker, and he
has studied near death experiences for decades, trying to find
(02:42):
proof and giving a lot of lectures on the topic.
His latest book on near death experience is called Impressions
of Near Death Experiences and it compiles hundreds of quotes
from ND experiences, offering verifiable evidence that NDEs are real,
(03:02):
and I can't wait to hear some of those stories.
He's a board member of the International Association for Near
Death Studies, which is an amazing organization. I've interviewed several
people from there, and he's going to share what he discovered,
especially some fundamental messages about unconditional love, interconnectedness, the importance
(03:22):
of love, and that we are not judged. That's the
title that I gave this show because I thought that
was the most important thing that he's going to talk about,
because so many of us are kind of living in
fear that, oh my god, I did these terrible things
and I'm going to land in hell and all of
that stuff that we were taught. So welcome, Bob. I'm
so glad you're here.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Thank you Royce for having me. It's really wonderful to
talk to you on the other side of the ocean.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Oh I know, tell everybody where you are.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I live in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, so there's nine hours
difference between us and your Where you are, it's morning
and here it's already evening.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Oh good, well, I'm glad you stayed up.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Well, it's six o'clock in the evening. That's okay. I
don't go to that early.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, So just tell us a little bit about your background.
I know you were in banking and you have your
PhD and all of us. Tell us about that, just
to maybe add some more information about you, and of
course how you got into this, I think is the
most important.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Yeah, I understand it.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah, it's I'm I was born in America, by the way,
but that's in South America, and my parents traveled around
and we landed in the country that my parents came from,
the Netherlands. I went studying economics, but I was very
interested in spirituality. So it shows that you can be
(04:57):
both aonomist and interested in spirit Sometimes I feel like
I'm in a split, but it's okay. It went well,
and I was very interested in things like well add things,
but I didn't want the woo woo part. And then
(05:18):
suddenly I came across the book written by Raymond Moody,
and that's fifty years ago. It's an anniversary now it's
a golden anniversary. And he coined the term near death
experiences and that really struck with me because I was
brought up Roman Catholic with Helen Purgatory. And I didn't
(05:39):
particularly like that part, not that it's scary only, but
it's also that it didn't resonate with me.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
I felt it was not right.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
And there in this book there was a story of
someone who had a near death experience and a live review,
and in the life review she said there was no judgment,
and I thought, this is it, this is how it is,
because why would there be a need for a judgment,
and why would some people be just cast away in
hell and things like that. And then I started really
(06:13):
to look into this.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
But on the other.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Side, I was also needing a job to pay the
bills and to do stuff like that, and I went
into banking. I finally made also my pH d. And
then I went into the central bank, something like the
Federal Reserve in your country, and then I got rid. Well.
Then during that last bit twenty years ago, twenty five
(06:38):
years ago, I started really looking into MDS again, and
I came across the International Association for Near Death Studies
in your country. It's a wonderful organization. But I discovered
that there was also on my side, very close by,
an organization that looked into this and studied this, and
(07:00):
so sometimes you look far away and it's very close by.
And they had done very important research on near death
experiences and there was so important that research that it
was also published in the Lancet, and the Lancet is
a very high and very good quality medical journal, and well,
(07:27):
that's where I also had very much interest in.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
But then I.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Wrote a few books, one of them on religions and NDEs,
and the latest one is with hundreds of quotes of nds,
as you said yourself, and I particularly liked that book
so much because it gives a good overview of what
an MD is. And when I was young, when I
was in my twenties and read the first time this
(07:57):
book by Raymond Moody, I wanted to have more quotes,
more inside information about ends, and more from a large
variety of people.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
And that's what I did in this book.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Wow. So I keep thinking, gosh, what an interesting balance
of two sides of your brain. Generally when I when
I meet people that are involved in banking and that
sort of you know, mind stuff, the other side of
(08:31):
the spiritual side is really neglected. So I'm proud of
you that you're balanced in that way. That's great, and
I think that adds more validity to what you're doing too.
It's you know, like you said, it's not some woo
woo out there thing. You know, it's very it's very
grounded and filled with information directly from the horse's mouth.
So that's great, and not only in that.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
But also research that's been done, because for me, these
stories are wonderful stories. Near death experiences are really amazing stories,
but they remain like fairy tales if you don't have
some proof with it. And some of the proof came
from this study that I saw in the Netherlands and
(09:14):
that was reproduced again in the United States and the
UK with the same kind of outcome. And there is
other wonderful research done on this side, like getting more
circumstantial evidence for near death experiences to be true.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
So when you say proof, how do they actually prove
some of this stuff? You know, what does that mean? Really?
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Yeah, well that's really tough. A proof that this really
exists is not there, and I doubt if it will
ever be there, but there is a lot of circumstantial
evidence that it is there, that these stories are Maybe
I should should tell something more about the prospective study
(10:04):
that's done in the Netherlands and reproduce in your country
as well. Is like they prospective means that it's reproducible,
so someone else can do the same kind of study
and then maybe find the same answers. This was ten
years that they had a protocol where they had thirteen
hospitals in the Netherlands and every time there was a
(10:26):
cardiacer reci patient that was brought into the hospital, they would,
of course after resuscitation, ask this one question, do you
have a recollection of you being out the time that
you are not there in your mind? And there were
like eighteen percent out of the three hundred and forty
(10:48):
four people in the database that had a recollection and
those were the near death experiences. And the interesting thing
is then that you have two groups, one with and
one without the ND and if there is a difference
between these two groups, then that might trigger an MD.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Well.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
The most important thing from this study is that oxygen
and lack of oxygen or substances that are created and
dying brain are not a cause because both groups had
a lack of oxygen and both group groups had a
dying brain that could possibly create these substances. So those
(11:28):
two and a lot of other things were ruled out
as a cause, but we still don't know what the
cause is now. The other kind of research that's being
done is case studies, where you really look into cases
of near death experiences. But these cases need to be
(11:49):
giving information that can be confirmed later on. Let me
give you an example there, because for listeners it might
be sounding like what is he talking about? You have
to think that an end the ear at one point
leaves his body. When he or she leaves the body,
then sometimes they have time to look around. You know,
(12:12):
people that leave their body are really in awe and
surprise that they can see around and they see the
doctors do things. They see their body and sometimes oftentimes
by the way, they don't recognize this body as theirs.
So but they can see what is happening. They can
see what the doctors do. They can see what is
happening at the crash side of the car if they
(12:34):
die there. And then later when they after their end,
when they go fly out to this other world environment
and come back again, they can tell well, I saw
the doctor do this and that, and or I say
other things and that. Then these items, these details need
to be confirmed independently by a third party that's subs
(12:58):
that makes a ritical observation, so an observation that is real.
So you have done an observation during your near death experience,
and it has been confirmed that that has been the case.
And these cases where and the ears see what the
doctors do show you that the consciousness can be outside
(13:25):
the body. It doesn't need the body be to have
your consciousness. That's the main thing that comes out of it.
That is one aspect of vertical observation, and that's when
you see things around here on earth. But there are
also vertical observations where observations are made in the other world,
(13:48):
the environment that can be confirmed later on, also independently.
And I'll give you an example there there was a
woman who had her medical critical situation, she had her
near death experience. She went outside her body. She saw
family in doing certain stuff. So that's the one category
(14:11):
of the very corpsivations. But then she went to this
otherworldly environment and she met with, as she said, diseased relatives.
And one of the diseased relatives came forward and said,
and it was a man, and presented himself as a
baby and said to her, if you have to go down,
(14:34):
you have to go back again, and when you see
your father, ask him about me, because I'm your brother,
and remember how I look like, how I was dressed
as a baby.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
And then she.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Said I didn't have a brother. And then she has
to go back to her body again after being restored
again or how do you say that? Recorporated again? Then
she speaks with her father, and the father confirms this,
and this whole story has been confirmed independently, that this
(15:14):
really happened, that she really said these things, that the
father acknowledged it, and that is being seen or established
by a third party. Those things are important. They are
case studies, but there are so many of these case
studies that it gives you circumstantial evidence that these stories
(15:38):
are based on reality.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I have to ask what was her father's reaction to that?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Well, surprise, of course, because well most of the time,
if people say to their relatives or friends that they
have been in this other world environment or that they
have seen their body from a different perspective, then people
have very strange reactions. Some people don't believe it, and
(16:05):
they will think the endears is crazy. But nowadays it's
more common knowledge that NDEs are there. So now people
become more interested in well did you really see that?
And things like that, But in former times and maybe
still people were met with unbelief and with also I
(16:28):
know of one person that was told, if you go
on talking to me like that, I'll have you put
in an asylum.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Oh wow, yeah, well even nowadays.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Wow, Well that was like twenty twenty five years ago,
I think this case, but maybe now it still happens.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, well I remember reading a few years ago, well
maybe ten or fifteen years ago that a lot people
in the medical fashion we're still trying to blame it
on some kind of hormone that got activated during death
or the drugs that the person was taking that they
(17:11):
still have that notion about it. Has that changed at all?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Well, that is the point where this research that was
done in the Netherlands and reproduced in the US and
the UK is so important because there it is established
that substances and the brains do not cause this, or
it's ruled out that that's the cause. We still don't
(17:39):
know what the cause is, but if you look at
the other kind of evidence, you might want to conclude
that there is this other world environment that we will
go to.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Wow. So some of the messages that you write about
in your book, you've kind of divided them up into
various categories. Tell us a little bit about the common
messages or information that people get from these experiences. I
think that's so interesting.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah. For me, it was so interesting to try to
find all these quotes from people because I wanted to
categorize them. If you study NDEs, well, there are a
number of things that keep popping up. Of course, how
(18:33):
do you get out of your body? That's interesting too,
because sometimes those stories are very funny or interesting. One
of them I really like is this person said, it's
getting out of your body is so easy. It's amazingly easy,
because it's like a toast popping out of a toaster.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Well, getting into your body.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
There are a lot of stories too, very funny worries
as well, and then everything in between, like of course
the ritical Observations.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
That's one of the chapters in my book.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
I find it so important to show people that there
is real research going on and that there is a good,
circumstantial evidence to show that NDEs are real, that they
are not just nice stories. And then of course the
central things like the light and the love, the unconditional
(19:32):
love that is there for everyone. There seems to be
no exception for this. This love is there for anyone
from any walk of life. It is not only there
for Christians just to mention a few, or for It
happens to men and women. It happens to rich and poor.
(19:53):
It happens everywhere in the world. There are stories in China,
in New Zealand in my book. There are stories in Africa, Europe,
of course, in the United States, South America, Iran, the Middle East, everywhere.
These things happen everywhere India, I cannot mention all the
(20:15):
countries in the world, but that's the case. And then
another thing that I found so very important is that
there is this oneness. People that have had an NDE
talk about that we are very closely connected with each other,
and that this connection is very very profound, and some
(20:38):
people even go further than that. I just quote people
in my book, and so people say, we are part
of this oneness, we are just one. You may not
feel it now because you're sitting there and your listeners
are somewhere else, and I'm sitting on this side of
the ocean. But once there on the other side, in
this other world environment, we will understand that we were
(21:00):
all part of the same source. So the source produces
sparks that are in each of the people and the
animals and the plants and wherever. So that is important
for me. These two are the most important things because
if you really acknowledge critical observations so that ends are real,
(21:27):
and you then look at the central points in NDEs
and those are unconditional.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
Love is very very important.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Everything seems to be made up of that, and that
we are part of one, that we are oneness. Then
if I do something to you, I actually do it
to myself, and there you should start thinking, Okay, now
I have to think twice before I do something. I mean,
(21:57):
the nasty things, the loving thing, you don't have to
think twice. But you know, the thing is with people
that study NDEs or that have had an NDE or
are interested in them, they tend to go that way.
And that's they are still not Satans. I just want
to mention that as well, but it's there is a
shift in them. And the other very interesting thing in
(22:21):
my book is life reviews. That's really interesting because a
live review is exactly what it is. You can see
your whole life being played out in front of you.
You will be part of it. You can see it
from your point of view, but you can also see
it and that's where it starts to become very strange
(22:41):
from the point of view of all the people you
acted with. So you're not only the doer, but you're
also the receiver and that is what makes people change.
And I want to stress also that not everyone has
a live review. Not you know, the whole near death
experience is. There are categories and parts of it, but
(23:04):
it's not like everyone has every part of an NDE.
Some people only talk about meeting their disease relatives and
the light. Some people have a live review, others don't.
Some people travel through a tunnel, others don't, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
So before we take our break, I just have to
go back to what you were saying about not being judged.
You know, I have my viewpoint on that because I
know that everybody here has a role to play. Everybody
here is supposed to bring something to this world, whether
(23:45):
it be something beautiful or something horrible, or wars or
you know, politicians no names mentioned. So how does that
fit with the life review. So, for example, if somebody
like Hitler is having a life review, would he hear
(24:05):
that you did good because you woke up a whole
bunch of people the horrendous nature of war or whatever
it was that he was supposed to do by doing
what he did. Do you ever think about that or
get into information about that from people?
Speaker 3 (24:21):
I do think about that, And the thing that is
central to my study of das, what I really get
out of ends is that when people have their live review,
they can see whatever they did. It can be nasty,
it can be really horrible. You mentioned someone. I leave
(24:44):
it there because there are you can mention so many
people that did horrible things, and we ourselves are all
sayings either. So we might have done not very nice
things in our lives. But what I know from Enders,
and that's system. He said, there is no judgment. There
is only unconditional love for you, not for you only,
(25:07):
but for everyone. There's no exception, otherwise it wouldn't be
unconditional love. And I don't know how it plays out
with Hitler or others, but one of the things in
NDEs is that when you see your life, you see
also the other side. So you become the other side.
(25:28):
You become the person you did something horrible to and
you see it from their point of view. Now, if
you have done horrible things to many people, then you
have a lot to do in your life review you will.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Let me put it like this.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
I've spoken to I know a few cases where people
have had I have done so many terrible things like
killings and numbers of well, a.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Series of killings.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
They said they met with love, unconditional love. The light
was loving for them.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
But the.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Live review, he.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Said that was so so painful, and that's only very
weak put it in a weak way.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
It's really really.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Painful for him, and I can only imagine what will
happen to others. But there is no judgment and there
will always be love coming to you because we are
all part of this source. I think that's the case.
And you touched upon something very important. We all have
to do something. There is a reason for our lives.
(26:40):
We fail to understand what it is. It's very difficult,
but we know from in the years. So many of
them they say, well, we have a task. Each of
us has a task. That's why we are important. Every
single one is important, not only your present or mar king.
Also the beggars in the streets, the teachers, the garbage collectors,
(27:03):
the wood car for anyone, anyone is important. And one
person said, even if you are not, if you don't
have a task, you wouldn't be here. You would go back.
If your task is done, you would go back, right.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah. And so these people that have done horrible things
for some reason, they needed to do that to wake
us up or to help other people clean up their
karma or whatever it is. So there's some device.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
I don't know these things and endears in general. Some
people say this some people, but other people don't know.
They don't say these things. So it's not something that
I can derive from all these NDEs. But it could
well be. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
And do people that have NDEs do they get a
sense of why they have to come back? Is there
kind of you need to come back?
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Because oh yeah, that's interesting. The funny thing is some
people are told you have to go back. You're not
ready yet, you are not done. You have to do
things on earth, so go. And sometimes there's a struggle.
I don't want to go and stuff like that. And
then but sometimes in these cases, people are shown the
(28:24):
reason why they chose to be on earth and that
they are not finished yet, and then they said okay,
I'll go, and then once they are back in their body,
they can't remember why they were there. I have not
spoken to one single person who knew exactly what the
reason was to be back again. But there is another
category of people that want to go home and ask
(28:49):
to go go home, or are given the choice. They
are given the choice, well, if you want to stay,
you can stay. If you want to go back, will
mend your body. Sometimes that happens, and those things are miraculous.
There are cases like Anita Mr Johnny, but not only her,
she's kind of famous with her book. She was in
(29:14):
a cancer state that she was really given up and
she died and she wanted to go back, and then
they said, well, if you go back, we will mend
you very quickly, and that happened within a few weeks
she was up and about again. Amazing, amazing stories and
real verified.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
So it's just interesting to me that they would be
told what their purpose is and then they would forget
once they're a body. That's kind of frustrating.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Yeah, but I have a thinking about that. I thought
maybe if you know what that is, you would go
rush do that because you want to go back. Most
people who have had a near death experience, I want
to be here.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Here is it's hate.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
And there is struggle and strive and there's no love there,
there's unconditional love. It's wonderful. Why would you want to
be here? So if they knew what the task is,
they would just rush and do it and then sit
down and say now I can go. And that's not
the purpose. You have to do more than.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Only sitting down and the well, I guess that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
That just sounds so frustrating.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Yeah, yeah, I know, but it's still interesting that it's
important to do things here on earth. It's it's very
important to just be here and experience life.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, so let's take a bit of a break and
just to remind anybody that's watching, if you are watching live,
you can send over some questions so you have If
you have any questions about near death experiences or want
to ask Bob or myself anything, feel free to text over,
but we will be right back.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
Home.
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Speaker 2 (33:30):
Hello, welcome back. I'm talking with Bob Coopis and we
are talking about near death experiences and all of the
verifiable information that he has gathered through the years. I
just think that's so fascinating. I thought of a really
interesting rom Dos quote during the break that I have
(33:52):
to mention. You were talking about people talking about how
easy it is to leave the body, and I remember
Ramdas saying death is like taking off a tight shoe.
I just think that's so perfect.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
So that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Because people that go back in their bodies say, well,
it was just a diverse suit or so that I
had to be squeezed into, and it was awfully small,
and it didn't really fit. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah, yeah, so my babies are uncomfortable.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
A lot of times.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
They're like, what what I'm in this body? And you
have to change my diapers and h So. Yeah, so
we were talking before we came on about some of
the religious dogma, and you were saying that a lot
of really religious people have a hard time believing in
near death experiences and you know, the heaven and hell
(34:54):
information that they've been fed. Talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Interesting thing is there are some art facts that are
interesting happening with and the years, they they tend to
become less religious and more spiritual because they some and
the years really say that they abhor all the dogmas
that they were brought up with. Sometimes they struggle with
(35:23):
how to leave that all behind because it's sometimes so
invested into you that that you can't get really rid
of it. But people become more spiritual, less religious, or
they become interested in other religions just to see how
it is there. Yeah, that that's that's what happens generally,
(35:48):
and dogmas, those are things they really don't like very much.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah. Yeah, obviously, you know, if you if you've experienced
something completely different, it would be hard to go back
to that dogma.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Yeah, yeah, because things that they have seen oftentimes are
totally different from what they have been taught. Like in Christianity,
for instance, it is taught that only people that believe
in Jesus will be allowed.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
To go to Heaven.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Same thing happens in Islam. If you believe in the
prophet and believe in Allah, you might go there as
long as you have been nice on earth. Same with
other religions. There's like everyone excludes each other, if you
want to put it like that, But that's really the case.
(36:48):
That is how religions teach their subjects. But if you
listen to near death experiences, they say it is open
for anyone. The real thing is much bigger than any
one religion. God is not from the Bible or from
(37:11):
the Koran. God is so much more, so much bigger.
I just quote people about this, So this is what
they say. They don't like dogmas anymore. They see that
religions are confining and God is everything that is liberated.
(37:31):
Liberal or maybe that's the wrong term because it's also political,
but it's freedom. It's freedom to great extremes.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yeah yeah, well you were mentioning that even the concept
of original sin is not in the Bible, and I
thought that was pretty interesting. Tell us a little bit
about that.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Yeah, that's the interesting thing that I came across when
I studied the several five big main religions in the world,
and one of them is, of course, the religion that
I was brought in up into, that was Roman Catholicism.
And original sin is very important there because Adam and
Eve ate from the forbidden tree, forbidden fruit from that tree,
(38:18):
and they were expelled from Paradise. And ever since, this
sin stuck to every baby that was born on earth.
That's the idea steaks to you, it sticks to us anyone,
even if we don't know Adam and Eve anymore. And
the only one that could redeem that was Jesus. The
(38:41):
whole notion, the term original sin is nowhere to be
foundly in the Bible. Just you can check it online
and then in control find original sin. It's not there,
not in the original Jewish Bible, not in the Gospel.
Jesus never mentioned it. And now Jesus was a very
(39:03):
important person because he was the most loving person, the
most empathetic person there is. And if you thought that
it was very important. He would have mentioned.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
It probably, yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
And he didn't mention it. It was fabricated something like
three hundred or four hundred years after Christ. The first
one to do that was Augustine, that's the main church father,
a saint who thought that the earth was only six
a thousand years old, and he thought of this concept
(39:41):
of sin, that there should be a reason why Jesus
didn't come back again. Jesus when he left he said,
I'll return very quickly, and after four hundred years he
wasn't there yet. So they had to find another reason
for him being put to death, and that was to
redeem this sin. Later, I think in fourteen hundred or so,
(40:03):
we have Thomas of Aquino, and he really thought about
dogmas that would show that sin is very important in
all this and for Christianity, and you can only go
to heaven if you were baptized in Christ. Now that
brings brought him and others in a bit of a
(40:27):
difficult situation, because what do you do with Adam and Eve,
and with Moses and with Abraham. They are very important
people in the Bible. Would they not go to heaven?
But they can't go to hell? So they it's actually
they thought of an adjacent place to heaven where these
(40:49):
people could be. But they couldn't go to heaven because
they weren't baptized in Christ. Nor are the little children
that were that died before they would be meptized. You
couldn't send them to hell. No, that's awful. But they
couldn't go to heaven either, So they go to another
place that's adjacent. So they had all these places. It's
(41:11):
really ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
That's how the thing was. I mean, it's silly.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
I think it's silly, but every religion has these things.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Yeah, yeah, I because I talk about reincarnation a lot
in my program. I've done some research on the whole
issue of reincarnation and religion, and from what I've seen,
Jesus talked about reincarnation.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
He talks about it.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
But they took it all out of the Bible. Some
pope took it all out because they wanted control over
their people, and they said, well, if you think you're
coming back, you're going to do whatever you want because
it won't matter, you know, So to gain control over
these masses of people said, oh no, you know, if
you do that, you're going to go to hell or heaven.
(42:03):
There's nothing, no other option for you.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
So yeah, yeah, I've heard that too, that there were
passages in the Bible where with references to reincarnation. Also,
I think when he with Elijah, I think John the
Baptist was thought of as being Eliah before something like that.
(42:30):
So but they forgot to take that out.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Oops. Yeah, they didn't do a control search, you know.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
No, no, you couldn't do it then.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Oh wow, So okay, So tell us give us some stories.
I'm sure you've got so many stories in your book.
Tell us a couple of stories that really stand out
to you about all of this.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Yeah, of course I can. Let me tell you a
story about the Dutch lady here that I spoke and
she was a small child in the war, in the
Second World War and after the World War, the Nedas
was a war torn country. We didn't have any luxury goods.
(43:13):
Everything was damaged. So the mother gave her suites to
share with friends in school. She had some sweets and
she took them to school and shared them. Well. Later
on in her life, this little girl, when she had
her near death experience, she had the live review and
in her life review she saw this episode where she
(43:35):
shared the suits with the school friends, and she noticed
not only her perspective but also the perspective of the
school friend she was the school friends, and she thought, wow,
I'm thought of so valuable that I can get these
suits from this person. And it didn't stick only with
(43:57):
her with the school friend, but she's she noticed that
this ripple that she created, this wonderful ripple, was spread
also to the mother of the child that she'd never seen.
And it went even further than that. And that learned
me because I hear these stories more often. Whatever you do,
(44:20):
it creates ripples and they go to places.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
You don't know.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
So better create nice ripples because they create nice effects.
And still if you create bad ripples or painful ripples,
you're not being judged. There's no punishment on the other side.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
But they better not.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Do them because you will not like it. You will
not like your life review if you see the nasty
things and the effect that it has on others. Now,
she noticed that also when when in her in the
same near death experience, she had also this other episode
as a little girl where she was asked by one
(45:01):
of the school friends to get rid of the lice
in her hair, and at that time there were no shampoos,
so you had to do that manually. Consider how that is.
It's very painstakingly. You have to go through the air
and this and the and the ear. When she was small,
she would say, okay, come on, I'll do that for you,
(45:22):
and she did it in such a loud way that
everyone heard that. And then in her life review she
felt how that was. She felt the pain on the
part of the little school friend that she was exposed
with lice in her hair, and that really hurt her
(45:43):
very much, and she felt it from that point of view.
And the other thing that was important in this respect
is that she saw that there were options, other options
that she could have chosen. And that is something that
I hear often from end the ears. You don't only
get to see what you did, but you get to
see also what you.
Speaker 4 (46:04):
Could have done a better.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
An other let me put it this way, another way
of acting, and that would have created more love in
the world and still no judgment and still no punishment.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
You chose for that.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
And it's also the idea there is that you chose
for this because you came from this and this direction.
You had these parents, this upbringing, you had this education,
you had this pain that caused this, that caused you
to do this, So it doesn't come out of the blue.
Whatever you do, there's a reason for it that you
(46:44):
do that, But you could have chosen something else.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
So a question about that. I talk a lot about.
One of the reasons that we're here is to clean
things up that we've done in the past, that we've
forgotten about or suppressed. So if somebody is conscious of
you know, gosh, I stole that book when I was
ten years old, and I now remember it. I want
to clean it up, and I'm going to go to
(47:08):
the library and donate a bunch of books on their
life review. Would that be something that would come up
or would it be kind of neutralized because they cleaned
it up.
Speaker 4 (47:19):
I wouldn't know that.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
But there is a funny story about a guy who
had his life review, and in his life review, he
saw that he had millions of girls because he was
a very handsome guy.
Speaker 4 (47:32):
But he cut off the ties with.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
These girls in a very painful.
Speaker 4 (47:38):
Way for the girls.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
And he saw what he did and it was so
horrible for him. So he grew up a list of
the girls that he had dated and try to find
them and apologize. And I don't know what that would
do for well. I think in his next live review
he will see that and that it has some kind
(48:01):
of soothing effect, but I don't know how that would
play out in reincarnation and reincarnation is something that some
people in NDEs do see their previous lives and future lives,
but there are also people that say, I can't relate
to it. And interestingly, there was a study done that
(48:22):
the number of people a number of endears or the
percentage of endears that believe in reincarnation is the same
as in the general public. So it's not conclusive. Let
me put it like that.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Yeah, it's interesting these things come out of studies.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Well, what about I've interviewed several people that have experienced
what they call distressing and details.
Speaker 4 (48:49):
Oh yeah, do you know.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Anything about that or what are your feelings about that?
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (48:55):
That's also.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Let me just flash my book one second. There's Impressions
of Near Death Experience with hundreds of quotes, and one
chapter in it is also about distressing NDEs. And if
people touch upon that, I really want to explain that
they are there.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
It's a subset.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
It's a small number, although we don't know how much
it is, how many people have that because you don't
go bragging about having a hellish experience. But having said that,
there is sufficient research done to say that we cannot
conclude that distressing NDEs are only there for bad people
(49:37):
quote unquote, because bad is something. The words good and
bad are not are from the earth, they are not
from the other side. They have no meaning. That's what
I learned from endears. So bad people not only don't
necessarily get a distressing end they occur also with with
(50:00):
people that are just very common and blissful. Endase occur
also with people that have been quote unquote bad. There's
this story in my book also about Danian Brinkley, who
killed off so many people that in his live review,
that's the person that I refer to before. In his
(50:23):
live review, he sees the pain on the part of everyone,
but not only the victim's pain, but he also sees
the pain on the part of the women that are
left behind and the children of these victims. So he
sees very much. He sees it very close by. He
(50:43):
sees it as if he is them. But he still
has a wonderful experience. The live review is really very painful,
but the experience itself, he's met with unconditional love. Now
other people have that are very similar to you and me,
or the listeners have had hamlish experiences. The current thinking
(51:10):
is that it is caused by the collective conscience that
pop pops up with images or they pop up from
your own history. And I've spoken to several ends with
distressing elements in it, and they said, well, if I
(51:32):
come to think of it, these distressing elements come from
my fear, for instance, of being put into hell because
I was taught that in my religion that if I
if I don't behave very well, and I didn't always behave,
so now I have to go to hell, or because
(51:53):
they are so afraid of elements that pop up in
there in there and they and the distressing end like
for instance, attracting a's being prostituted, meeting people you don't
know and they are awful to things like that can
pop in your NDE. But I believe it will not
(52:16):
stay that way if you have an ND because there
why would there be a distressing part in universe where
people go to Because we are part of one and
nd ears. There have been several nds that to explicitly
(52:37):
that there is no hell and purgatory. I believe that interesting.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
I know the one person I was thinking of that
I interviewed, she had a horrible experience and she believed
strongly in heaven and hell. But when she came back
into her body, she this became her purpose to tell
people about NDEs, especially distressing, and she's written books about
it and she lectures about it, and she knows that
(53:04):
this is why it happened to her, to wake her
up to her true purpose. So that's pretty interesting too.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
Yeah. There is also the idea that distressing and is
also have beneficial effects on people. So there's one book
with a lot of distressing des in it and it's
called Blessing in Disguise, So it is it is something
not so very nice, but it helps you in your life. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yeah, Well, we are getting to the point where we're
going to have to say goodbye, So why don't you
give us one more wonderful story from your book.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
The story that I like it best is of a
little girl that was assaulted by a few men and
they tried to drown her, but she was.
Speaker 4 (53:51):
Well.
Speaker 3 (53:51):
Her father came to her rescue. But in the meantime,
when she was sort of drowning, she had her near
death experience. She went through the tunnel and at the
end of it it was blocked by an elderly person
and she later said it couldn't have been anyone else
but God. And she was eight years old, and she
said she had a conversation with him and he told
(54:15):
her to go back. But life is easy. It has
only four ingredients. And these ingredients are love, be loved,
just be and experience life. And I like this quote
so much because it stresses again the love component, but
(54:35):
not only giving love, but also allowing people to give
you love, which is sometimes also difficult, and just to
be and to experience life. Also when there are problems.
Problems are not there to tease you or to make
you unhappy. While they make you unhappy, but it's part
of life. It's something we should also try to get through.
(55:01):
And it's painful for people, I know.
Speaker 2 (55:04):
Yeah, Well, as John Lennon said so profoundly, love is
all there is.
Speaker 4 (55:12):
Yes, that's it.
Speaker 3 (55:13):
That's the main thing. That's interesting thing that you say that,
and the years say that love is the only thing
that's it.
Speaker 2 (55:21):
So show us your book and tell people how to
reach you, because we've got like thirty seconds.
Speaker 4 (55:26):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (55:27):
You can reach me through my website, which is www.
Bobcopus dot com and you can click on the images
where you can find it on Amazon.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
Thank you so much, Bob, keep up the good work.
Speaker 3 (55:42):
Thanks you too, wonderful Royce, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
You are welcome and I'll see everybody next week. Thanks
for joining us. H
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