Edy Nathan – Loss Changes Everything but Doesn’t Have to Keep You Stuck

Air Date - 15 October 2025

Edy Nathan, MA, LCSWR, is an author, psychotherapist, certified sex therapist, hypnotherapist, grief counselor, and certified EMDR practitioner with more than 20 years of experience. In her expertise as a trauma and grief therapist, she interweaves her formal training with breathwork, creative arts, guided imagery, ritual, and storytelling. She blends these disciplines into a unique approach that embraces both the science and the soul of grief. She is the author of It's Grief: The Dance of Self-Discovery Through Trauma and Loss.

https://edynathan.com/

#EdyNathan #RoyceMorales #PerfectLifeAwakening

Connect with Royce Morales at https://www.roycemorales.com/

Visit the Perfect Life Awakening Show Page  https://omtimes.com/iom/shows/perfect-life-awakening-show

Subscribe to our Newsletter https://omtimes.com/subscribe-omtimes-magazine/

Connect with OMTimes on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Omtimes.Magazine/ and OMTimes Radio https://www.facebook.com/ConsciousRadiowebtv.OMTimes/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/OmTimes/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/omtimes/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/OMTimesTV
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/2798417/
Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/omtimes/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Perfect Life Awakening Show, hosted by Royce Morales.
Royce has been a transformational facilitator, teaching groundbreaking spiritually based
courses for more than four decades. She is the author
of three books about her teachings. Join Royce as she
takes you on a journey into how to live your
best life and find your true purpose through discovering the

(00:31):
origins of subconscious, disempowering notions and releasing them. She talks
with experts and inspiring people just like you who learned
to trust their intuitive inner wisdom, which led to life
changing shifts. Today, her guests live in empowered existence and
are helping change the world to a higher consciousness place

(00:52):
based on truth and love. You deserve to awaken, to
align with and embody your true self and live alone.
I've filled with love. Transform yourself from triggered to empowered
and create your perfect life. Here is your host, Rice Morales.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Welcome everyone. I'm so glad you're here. I'm excited as
always to welcome my guest today. But before I even
introduce everyone to ed, I want to just talk a
little bit because our theme today is about loss and
what it does and how it keeps us stuck. But
what I wanted to mention is that one of the

(01:35):
things I talk about in my courses is that we
all experience loss from the minute we arrive in a
physical body, because nothing is permanent in this physical world,
and yet we're so attached to everything physical that it's
just probably the most difficult thing for us to deal with.

(01:56):
We just can't. We can't. It's devastating to us, and
the letting go process can take years, or from what
I've seen, lifetimes. So it reshapes our world. It alters
how we see ourselves, it alters how we see everyone,
it alters how we see life. And what I've seen

(02:18):
and what my guest has also seen, which is very exciting,
is that within grief there is space for renewal, there's
space for growth, there's space for transformation. And again, life
is a journey of dealing with loss, and life is
a journey of self discovery and growth that can coexist

(02:40):
with loss. And I think the sad part, and I'm
sure my guests will talk about this too. We've been
taught to not fully feel our emotions, especially grief. We're told, oh,
just get over it, or haven't you mourned long enough.
Yet it's been two years, you know. So by not
feeling every thing to a complete point, or a complete,

(03:03):
complete experience getting it all out in some way, it
stays stuck in us, and then it gets even more powerful,
and the next time we experience loss, it's even bigger.
So by the way I just wanted to mention something,
she'll be mentioning too. We're not talking just about death,
We're talking about anything that goes away. I had an
experience this morning, interestingly enough, where I always sleep with

(03:27):
my cel phone under my pillow, and I got up
this morning because I want to know what time it is, right,
got up this morning, couldn't find it. Started to freak out,
Oh my god, it's gone.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
You know.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
I'm turning the light on, I'm looking under the bed,
I'm looking everywhere. I'm literally freaking out because that's how
attached I am, or we are, to that little device,
because it has everything we need in a calendar notes.
Everything is in that thing. And when I finally did
find it, which was interesting, it was tucked under my

(03:59):
blank not my pillow. It was like, oh, such a
sense of relief, But it really triggered the feeling that
we all have when something goes away and it's like
we can't stop it, we can't deal with it. What
are we going to do? Oh my god, my life
is ruined all of that stuff that happens. So let's

(04:20):
let me introduce ed to you. Edi Nathan M a
license psychotherapist and lcsw R specializes in helping people deal
with grief and she uses all kinds of techniques breathwork,
guided imagery, ritual, storytelling. And she knows that grief is
a powerful tool of self discovery, as I said before,

(04:44):
and it hits us all in different ways. Everyone everyone
gets hit in different ways, but socially, psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually.
For over two decades, she has been exploring the complexity
and depth of loss and grief for healing so that
people can heal and have some self discovery from this

(05:06):
process because it is transformative. Grief, sorry, grief transforms how
we love, how we move through the world, and how
we heal. And she believes that grief is not something
to overcome, but something to live alongside. And those are

(05:27):
her words. I thought that was very profound. And whether
it's it's fresh or you've carried it for years. Understanding
grief's presence is the first step toward integrating it into
your life. The other thing she said, which I think
is really beautiful, is there's no right way or wrong
way to grieve. There are ways to carry it differently.

(05:48):
So welcome Edio. I'm so glad you're here.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
It's great to be here. And I resonated with so
much of what you said in terms of that cell phone,
you know, the cell phone, and and and and and
that relationship to the cell phone is is is an
interesting one, And I actually liken it too, the way

(06:12):
that we have little ones when we're when we're learning
how to be differentiated, and we're learning to detach from
the mother or the wholeness of what that mother represents,
and that that primal relationship, and that when we can't
find the mother, that we go into this this kind

(06:35):
of panic and you know, where is she? And then
and then there are the tears of of that child
I need to find my mom, and and the yearning
and the crying. And I think at times that the
loss of the cell phone or that there is that
sense that that reminder of an earlier loss, because we

(06:58):
become become so attached to. It is the container, It
is the holder of our lives. It is the way
that we communicate. It is the way that we reach
out for help. It is the way that we might
calm our nervous systems by just looking down and getting
ourselves away from the noise. And so it was really
an apt way of bringing us into this discussion about loss.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
It's funny, I always have something happened right before a show.
That's just perfect timing for what we're going to talk about.
And so that's great, very interesting. Yes, that mother loss
that you know, that separation, that feeling like where is she?

Speaker 3 (07:38):
That's right, that's right, and that feeling of separation, that
feeling of okay, like am I losing my mind? And
of course in the child's mind that may not you
know that they may not have the language, but it
doesn't mean that their nervous systems are not experiencing the
impulse of just in abject fear or terror. And that's

(08:03):
what grief can bring on. It can bring on emotions
and feelings that we may not even have words for. Rice, Rice,
you know that the words are so important in terms
of what we are feeling, what's going on for us
and how there might be a repetition in our minds

(08:24):
of what's wrong with me? What's wrong with me? Why
aren't I better? Within grief, whether it's the loss of
a loved one or it is the losses that we
incur in our lives. And you brought that up because
it's not just about the loss of a loved one.
It can be about the losses of personal, social, sexual,

(08:46):
even identities. And so yeah, so it's looking at grief
as a kind of an essential part of our development
that starts from the time the umbilical cord is cut.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yes, yeah, we lost that safety of the womb and
all of a sudden, we're on our own.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yeah, that's right, that's right, that's right, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
And I think what you said is really important. And
the way that I've explained it is it symbolizes so
much to us, and what it really symbolizes is loss
of ourselves. Every time we lose something out there, it's like, oh,
I could lose myself. That's the same thing. Oh my gosh.
So it's very, very triggering. So before we get in

(09:33):
depth about all this, I want to ask you how
did you get started on this journey. How did you
get attracted to this field dealing with loss and grief?

Speaker 3 (09:44):
You know how you opened up and you said, you know,
sometimes right before a show, something happens, something comes to you,
and then that becomes an opener. Right, So it came
to me. It wasn't like I don't think that you
choose to work with grief. I think that that it
shows up, it knocks on your door and it says, okay,

(10:06):
you need to start to pay attention now. It came
to me at a very very young age. I was
probably like one and a half or two, and it
was just knocking, knocking it and what was it. It
was about saving animals, and it was about walking down
the street and seeing homeless people or just wanting wanting

(10:29):
to help, wanting to save, seeing loss. And I saw
the world through a lens then that had innocence and
wisdom all at the same time. And I realized though
that the family that I was born into was not

(10:52):
going to be able to tolerate this world view at
such a young age. And so I think that we're
all born, if you will, with this magical Buddha and
we see the world with wonder and and and and joy,
and every color is nuanced and alive, and and and

(11:15):
we learn what our families of origin will and won't tolerate,
and what we might need to tuck away or forget
not remember. And so I had to take that Buddha
that I think we're all, you know, amusing the Buddha metaphor,
but but you know, just that beginner's mind, if you

(11:36):
will show shin which which is a is a beautiful term,
and and put it somewhere. And the realization of having
to put some life force of mine away was the
opening to my conversation with grief and with loss.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Mmm, we sound like we have the same childhood. Yes,
I had that same thing. I used to walk down
the street and find birds and rescue them and animals
and people.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yes, yes, yes, yes. And then it wasn't until years
later when I was I had a partner and we
were very involved, and he taught me about love, he
really did. And then a year into that partnership he

(12:29):
was diagnosed with cancer and a year later he was gone,
and I was twenty seven and really at a loss,
and anything that I had not dealt with and the
things that had been buried began to just come up,
and I was flooded. And I wasn't just flooded with
Paul's death. I was flooded with all of the things

(12:53):
that I had put away or shut down, you know,
my little Buddha, and had to start to heal. I
didn't even know what healing meant. All I knew was
that the people who were saying, don't worry, you're young,
You're going to find somebody else, they were not helping.
And the people who were saying, you're going to get

(13:15):
over this, they weren't helping. Because it was my life
and I wasn't going to get over this loss. Maybe
I had to find languaging. And it was really his
dying that got me into an exploration around what is
grief and how do we talk about it? And it

(13:38):
would what languaging do I want to use? And it
just exploded. I went back to school and I wrote
a thesis on grief and creativity and it just became
my life's work.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Wow. Yes, as life's work often lands in one's lap,
whatever we're supposed to do just shows up. That's great,
that's right, Wow, that's right. So how would you this
might be a silly question, But how how do you
define loss? How would you if somebody said to you,
what is loss? How would you define that?

Speaker 3 (14:19):
When people come into my office, I really believe that
we have this overarching theme of grief, that there's grief there.
But if I said to somebody who's pretty much brand new,
so what are you grieving? They're going to look at
me like I'm nuts? And I understand because we think
of grief only as related to the loss of a

(14:41):
loved one, not the losses that we incur within our
own selves or or our childhoods or whatever. So I
will ask the question, what are you yearning for? What
are you hungry for? Because I think that that that
grief is about losing something that you're not going to

(15:04):
get back. It doesn't mean that you don't create other
things as a result of it, and it becomes new growth.
But there that it's not and it's not about going back.
It's about how to move forward. And so you're yearning
for something that was lost that you can't get back.
You're hungry to be filled in a way that you

(15:28):
you haven't been filled, or that what you have lost
filled you, and you don't feel that fullness, that sense
of okayness, that sense of eyeness and beingness, and it
somehow feels like it's you're held captive and you're stuck

(15:49):
and you just want to be liberated.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
So what I'm hearing is, if I'm misinterpreting this, perhaps
one of the reasons we feel loss is that we
don't feel whole. Is there truth to that? Because it
feels like if I felt whole and my best friend
happened to die, I would miss her and be sad
that it wouldn't give me that sense of oh, you know,

(16:17):
that loss and can't replace and oh my god, what
am I going to do? Because I would feel whole.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (16:24):
It does make sense. And yet, what if we are whole?
What if we are innately whole? And then there are
aspects of us or roles that were taken as a
result of those losses, So that if you lose a

(16:46):
loved one and you were you were in the role
of daughter, and you were the only daughter to that
mother and that mother dies, I'm still a daughter, but
I'm not a daughter in the same way, and I
made the whole. But that role of daughter and the
way that that mother responded to me as daughter has

(17:09):
an emptiness. Does that mean that other parts of me
aren't whole?

Speaker 2 (17:13):
No?

Speaker 3 (17:13):
Does it mean that I might yearn for that mother? Yes,
so it's a yearning. Yes, it's a hunger for But
it's not all of us. It's not all of the
different aspects of the self for the soul that make
us make up us. So I I think grief is deep,

(17:38):
and it doesn't we don't escape it, right, And it's
a soul's journey, for sure. And there are different kinds
of grief and and just like there are different types
of souls journeys, and there are times within our spiritual
world where everything within our spiritual world just breaks down

(18:02):
and crushes. And that's like a Kundolining awakening. And it's
just it's crushing and and and and we're questioning everything
and and and and our emotions are just scattered about
us and it's messy and it's chaotic. And grief can
feel like that, and it can be spiritual. But grief

(18:23):
can also be part of a spiritual awakening where it's
like you have a renewed sense of who you are,
what your goals are, how you want to show up
in the world because of what you've lost, and grief
can then be one of your greatest teachers. That becomes
a feeder too, a wholeness that's there and is a yes.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
And so what about there's so many spiritual disciplines now,
and don't get me started. But the they talk about, well,
they don't call it spiritual bypassing, but I do when
I hear people say this kind of stuff like, well,

(19:07):
you know it was meant to be and you know
he's in the spirit realm now and everything is fine,
and they have that kind of talk they automatically go
into rather than wow, this feels horrible. Yes, I know
he's a spirit and I know everything's fine now and
I'm going to be fine. But you know, what do

(19:27):
you say to people that have that attitude of spiritual bypassing?

Speaker 3 (19:32):
So can I ask you a question? Okay, So when
you hear oh, because you're a very spiritual woman, right,
and you see the world through so many various lenses,
So when you hear that in the spirit world everything

(19:54):
is fine, how do you react?

Speaker 2 (19:58):
Well, as a teacher, I gently say to them, so,
but how are you feeling about all that? And I
kind of lead them into getting in touch with how
they really feel, giving them permission to recognize that, yes,
all of that is true, but we're humans and we
feel sad and we feel grief and we feel lost,

(20:19):
and it's okay. And I take them further back to
see what's being triggered, further back from this experience, just
like what you just did when you said, you know,
how does that does that bring up stuff about losing
your mom? You know? So that's what I do. And
I just think it's so important because we're, like I

(20:40):
said earlier, we hold on to that and it's affecting us.
It's affecting our health, it's affecting everything to not feel
the sadness and the loss and the grief. So yeah,
that's what I Yes, yes, And I.

Speaker 3 (20:57):
Have a similar reaction and response. And one of the
things that that I think about when someone says, oh,
I'm fine and it's okay because they're in the spirit
you know, they're taking their they've moved to the spirit world.
They're being taken they're taken care of in the spirit world.

(21:17):
I want to know what they imagine about the spirit world.
I'd like to know who's holding them. I'd like to
know what that what that holding is is like as
they imagine it and and how it serves their grief

(21:39):
to think about it in that way, And like you,
I'm going to go deeper. But I also wonder and
I assess for what is their capacity in terms of
support systems, in terms of their ability to function, you know,
in their lives, in terms of are they living alone,

(22:02):
do they have kids around, do they have friends, do
they have a spiritual connection to you know, a church,
a synagogue, a musque, whatever it may be. Because perhaps
the only way they can survive is to think they're

(22:25):
being taken care of. And in that case, what I
want to do is begin to teach them some languaging
that might feel safe enough initially for their nervous systems
to explore other expressions, so I might help them explore

(22:46):
some nonverbal stuff. You talked about the storytelling, and I
think you know, I love to work with stories, people's stories,
and I really do believe that we have in our
bodies what I call body memoirs, and those body memoirs
are touch points all over our but from our brains

(23:06):
to our mouths, to our necks, to our hearts, to
our bellies and guts, you know, to our lower extremities.
You know that that they hold these stories, these body memoirs,
and these body memoirs may be the way in to
what's going on up here, because it's a very kind

(23:30):
of heady response and it's a it's a it's it's
it's a disconnected response of their up there there there
in spirit. And I call it the guillotine effect. It's like,
we've got we've got what's going on here when we've
got the words and we've got images, but but what's

(23:50):
going on in your body?

Speaker 2 (23:52):
Hmm?

Speaker 3 (23:54):
So can you give us some.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
H can you give us an example of that? How
what does that look when you're doing that with someone?

Speaker 3 (24:03):
So so the let's let's use your example. Okay, they're
in they're being taken care of, they're in the spirit
world there there. So I'm I'm I'm fine because they're
they're up there, They're okay. So let's drop that down

(24:24):
and where that story that you've just shared, that uh vision,
that ideal, where is that held in your body? Well,
I'm holding it in my gut, Okay, So I want
I want to I want to know what's what's going
on in that gut? Is it warm? Is it nurturing?

(24:45):
Is there love there? Who's there, who's who's living there,
who's in? What are the voices in your gut? And
I want I want to I want to know what
that experience is h I want to know how how
your body feels socially when you're walking around and there

(25:09):
is that loss and you're thinking they are up there.
I want to know how your gut reacts with food
or or nurturing. I want to know how that how
you speak to your gut If your body memoir around
the loss of the loved one and that they are safe,
that that how is your gut breath, you know, breathing

(25:33):
into that my loved one is safe? And how does
your gut express the missing? How does your gut express
the perhaps loss of companionship? How does are you hungry?

(25:55):
Are you are? You are? Are you are? Is your
gut relaxed that night or is there gurgling? And I
want to just go into wherever that body memoir is
and I want to hear the story of Okay, so
your gut is holding your loved one, tell me a
story that your gut is holding about your loved one.

(26:17):
Did you share food? Did you? And let's and let's
remember peacefully but not here but through let's say the gut.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
And people are able to do that. That's that's great.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
Well, it's it's guided, you know, like just like I
would guide. It's not like an off Okay, So now
just go into your gut. It's like I'd like it
to drop into that area where there's that body memoir
of your loved one, you know, is it your heart?
Is it your gut? Is it is it? Is it

(26:53):
your your lower back, wherever it is. I'm going to
use the body and I'm going to ask you to
tell me a story, to share a story, and and
and sometimes there's there's nothing, And that's okay too. I
believe that our bodies hold our grief just as much

(27:13):
as our heads hold it. And and when it's okay,
my loved one is is is safe and they're fine?
Where do you hold safety? Where do you hold that
safety in your body? How? How how do you reflect
on that? And I have I have a notebook. It's
called Notes to Self. It's grief Notes to Self. And

(27:34):
in the back of the notebook I have five pages
of words from words around sadness, words around grief, words
around love, words around connection, because we sometimes don't have
the words to express accurately what's going on, and so
to use that as a as a template, I will

(27:56):
bring in music. I will ask my clients bring me
music that your loved one loved to listen to, or
that maybe you listen to together, or food. Because though it's
it may feel like there's okay, they're safe and they're fine,
there seems like there might be some cutting off of

(28:18):
an emotional response to that which was lost.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
So speaking of cutting off, I know I mentioned earlier
that there's really no timeline for loss and grief. Everybody
has their own timeline. But what about people that get
so stuck in it that they never get quote past it?
It's always just as fresh. What do you what do

(28:47):
you do in situations like that? How do you without
invalidating somebody and saying just get over it. It's been
five years. What do you do? What do you recommend?
R What are your thoughts about that?

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Such a it's such a great question because you know,
and sometimes we're talking about the loss of a loved one,
and I think that you are, you know, but sometimes
in my world because I also work with with with trauma,
and I and and and there becomes an attachment to

(29:22):
the role of the person who is grieving whatever they've lost, right,
and so I must align with the attachment. I must say, okay,
So I want to know as much as I can
about what you walk with and what it's like for
you to have grief hanging on and holding on. And

(29:46):
it's because we don't get past it, you know that,
which is why, like like I talk about a dance,
I think we need I think the goal of this
work is learning how to dance with it, learning how
to dance with the grief, learning how to partner with it.
And sometimes you do in the twist, and sometimes you
do in the waltz, and sometimes maybe you're just walking
hand in hand. But the goal is not for it

(30:08):
to take you over to such a degree that all
you are is your grief. But if if that is
who you become, then I want to understand the person
that is now you, that is your grief. And and

(30:29):
to say let's let's let's let's get let's get over this,
or let's get past this. I don't know that we do.
I don't even Frankly, I don't believe in closure. I
don't think that there is closure. More and more articles
and papers peer peer peer peer related articles that are

(30:49):
that are that are done by by by people who
are doing research in the in the field of grief
and loss are are are actually writing about closure not
being a thing, like like, there is not a closure.
The door doesn't close and lock because you know when
I when when when I lost Paul. You know, I'm

(31:12):
not I'm not going to forget. I walk around when,
especially when I travel with his time X watch and
and I went when and and and it's a winding watch,
and when before I speak, I will often wind the
watch and I hear it tick, and I remember it
on his wrist, and so you know, people would say, well,

(31:32):
that's not closure because you've held onto this. To me,
it's like, no, I am paying his life forward, and
so it doesn't I don't. I don't have to wind
it every day. I don't need to to hold on
to him, though his essence is part of why I
do the work that I do. So that loss informs

(31:56):
me but doesn't rule me, and I as a result,
so much of my identity, my personal identity my my, my.

Speaker 4 (32:07):
Love of of of of of life, of wanting to
experience so much is because of what I lost. And
so it's not about getting past it. It's about how
am I going to learn to have it.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
Talk about it, and move with it right and and
and so if someone is embedded so much in the
grief that that is who they have become, and truly
their brains and their neural pathways have shifted race, they

(32:44):
have shifted so much so that they're just in in
the trauma of their grief and it's complex and it's confining,
and it really kind of holds them in a in
a captive state. But they also feel that they're being
true to what they've lost, and so I must honor

(33:07):
what their truth is and and help them find ways
to maybe get a little breath of fresh air or
maybe see that there might be a another another pathway,
because the labyrinth of grief, you know, you could, you could,
you can just like keep like it's amazing and it's

(33:29):
like no dead end, dead end, dead end, and that's
how it feels. And the goal is, oh god, I
just I just found one one path that feels like
it got me closer to out but out doesn't mean
Forgetting out doesn't mean you're all done. It just means
you're walking with it a little bit differently.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah, wow, beautiful. We need to take a bit of
a break, but I am talking to Edie Nathan. We're
going to talk a little bit further about out grief
and loss on how it helps us evolve. We will
be right.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Back home Times TV. Do you crave joy but feel stuck?
Do you go through life feeling constantly triggered and frustrated?
Fear is likely the culprit and subconscious fear is likely

(34:26):
sabotaging you. Perfect Life Awakening is a time tested, spiritually
based approach to inner transformation created by Royce Morales. For
over forty years, she has helped people get to the
origins of subconscious fears and ultimately help them find their
true purpose and a life full of joy. Sign up

(34:47):
for Perfect Life Awakening today at Roysmorales dot com. You
deserve to go from triggered to empowered, shifting your life
with Perfect Life Awakening. Imagine becoming a super influencer, reinvent yourself,
invest in your brand, and then manifest your success with

(35:10):
a robust, spheric approach own Times Media and Broadcasting offers
a unique and multifaceted way to become the spiritual and
conscious influencer you deserve to be. By putting your message
across our powerful platform with its proven record of integrity
and excellence through our produced shows, Home Times offers the

(35:31):
opportunity to become a social media TV personality, a radio
show host, an Own Times magazine columnist, and a syndicated
podcaster all in one shot. By live streaming your show
on ome Times TV and broadcasting it across the extensive
Home Times Radio and TV networks, you become more than
a host. You become an ambassador and a force for

(35:54):
positive change. Own Times. Open yourself to the possibilities.

Speaker 5 (36:03):
I want to eat eight apples and bananas. I need
to ate eight apples and bananas. Why can I eat
eat in apples and bananas.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
Support the Feeding America nationwide network of food banks to
help provide meals to those in need. Join us at
Feeding America dot org.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
Welcome back. I'm talking to Eating Nathan. We're talking about
grief and loss and amazing, amazing things you're doing over there.
So you talk about how feeling and going through grief
and loss actually helps us evolve, and I'd love for
you to talk more about that. What does that mean

(36:55):
to you?

Speaker 3 (36:59):
I think of grief like our fingerprints, you know, it's
kind of like as individual as we are, and no
one grieves in exactly the same way. And grief can
give us an opportunity to understand an emotional life that
we may never we may not have had privy to

(37:21):
prior to a loss. Right. It might also push us
to see the world in a different way and harness
our energies, to become more awakened, to explore the spiritual,
to have greater friendships, to let go of friendships or

(37:46):
relationships that don't serve us. And so grief can just
expand our conversations internally, expand our conversations of what we
will and won't tolerate within ourselves, even in terms of
how we take care of this self, how we eat,

(38:07):
how you know, what we drink or don't drink, friendships,
how we socialize, and being honoring the self, honoring the soul.
And I think that grief can give that to us
as well. There was a woman who on Long Island

(38:27):
whose husband was fatally murdered on a Long Island railroad train.
And she ended up becoming a congresswoman and ended up
making laws against guns and gun control. Had she not
lost her husband, she probably wouldn't have done that. But
look at what that loss turned into something that changed

(38:52):
the world. We look at mad M A d D.
Mothers against drunk drivers. Those were women who lost their
children and they created something amazing that changes the world.
And so we've got we've got the potential to take

(39:13):
the grief that wants to shoot us down and helps
us sometimes to make us feel small or unable to
cope or filled with malaise. And that's all part of
what I call the eleven phases of grief. And there
are big g's, and there are little g's and and
the big g's are are the deaths and are the

(39:35):
losses of self at times, or are the losses of
of of of a job or a home because of
a fire. And then we've got our little g's. And
you know what, when those little g's they build up,
they can feel like a big g. And yet the
more we learn to deal with a crisis or a
little loss, and and and and we calm our nervous

(39:58):
systems through breath work, through music, through dance, through we
know how important community is in terms of supports and
you don't have to be an extrovert to have community.
You can have a community of war. And so when
when I think about growth, I think about all the

(40:21):
different ways that we can grow, whether it's work, or
it's social, or it's it's it's our spiritual realm, or
it's learning, or or it's deciding that we're going to
quit our jobs and become an artist or whatever the
case may be. And grief can promote growth, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
As you're talking, I'm thinking about all the stuff that's
going on in the world right now, and you know,
I think everyone just is feeling loss and grief, and
you know, but a lot of people are standing up
and take action, like you said about the woman that
passed the gun law. You know, that's that's right.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
We're doing Yeah, that's right, that's right, and finding finding
maybe your true voice, finding what your voice is, because
so often, you know, we want to keep grief silent people.
It's like when when they say you're over it or god,
it's been X time, it's because they the friends or

(41:27):
the family, they just want you back like you were
and the thing is is that grief and want I
got the hero party happens. You are forever changed.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
You you're not going to go back.

Speaker 3 (41:40):
You are forever changed. You're you're going to explore, You're
going and you might look the same, you might talk
the same, you might do the same work, but you're
forever changed. Children who lose a parent, they're forever changed.
The loss of an animal, how that that that animal
loss was handled as a child, You're forever changed. And

(42:05):
you may then say, you know, I'm going to have
animals when I grow up, and I'm going to take
care of them, and I'm going to do it differently,
And there's the repair, and so you know, grief is
one of our greatest teachers. And sometimes it feels like
a tidal wave and we are overwhelmed and we feel
like we're drowning. And then other times it's like it's out.

(42:27):
It's like the emotions are just bare and we feel
barren and we feel dry, and we feel just like
we can't. We feel nothing, almost like a nothing. And
the goal is I call it calibration. And I love
doing a seesaw when I was a kid, and that
sense of being on a seesaw and just like, oh,

(42:51):
both my feet are off the ground and my partner's
feet are off the ground, and there we are in
we're keeping it, we're keeping it. And then finally like
one of us like loses the balance. But that's the goal,
is to get to a calibrated state. Some people call
it balance. I'm calling it calibration. And are there going

(43:11):
to be ups and downs, sure, but to get to
that place of calibration. It's not about forgetting. It's about
how am I going to learn to remember peacefully? And
everything that's going on in the world and all of
the media that's coming in, it's like, how informed do
you need to be? How important is that to you?
And frankly, a lot that's going on can bring up

(43:32):
the stuff that we may have forgotten or pushed down.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Right, definitely, yes, yes, just one thing that I want
you to talk about the eleven the eleven phases of grief,
but just a comment. I find that because most of
us are not really resolved or calibrated with our grief,

(43:57):
we've suppressed it, we've denied it, we've you know, acted
like everything is fine. When somebody else is going through grief.
It triggers us because it's showing us, Oh I didn't
I didn't do that, So I'm going to make sure
they don't do that too. So what are your thoughts
about on?

Speaker 3 (44:14):
You're spot on, Yes, you know, we look, there's a
healthy denial of grief, right, there's a healthy denial of death,
and that healthy denial keeps us sane because frankly, if
we were thinking about dying and death all the time,
we'd all be nuts nuttier than we already are. No
insult to you, Okay, I'm responsible. I am as nutty

(44:39):
as the next person. Okay, you know, but you know,
but truly, you know, we we do have an innate denial.
And also if we look anthropologically at our at our
at our pasts, you know, the way that we dealt
with grief and loss, it was in the home and children,
you know from you know, my studies so long ago.

(45:03):
But children, you know, little girls and boys had dolls
and sometimes you know, they would put them you know nowadays,
you know, you see these little, big dolls, and you know,
and the kids put them into carriages. They had coffins
and they would put their dolls into coffins because their

(45:24):
children died. Mothers would have five, six, seven children and
maybe two or three might pass. So it was part
of the nature of their lives. And so I say
this because we cleaned it up. We we we you know,

(45:47):
and and we took it out of the home, and
we took the washing of the body out of the home.
And it's still done in in some cultures, just not
necessar thoroughly here, it's still done actually here in some
cultures as well. We we we can certainly look at

(46:07):
at indigenous cultures and there they will still very much
have part of of of of of the of the
of the death thing and the washing of the body
and the dressing and and and and it is still
done at home. But you know this, this this need

(46:27):
to clean it up understood is is it has takes
us that much further away from being in it and
adds to the the denial, if you will, and I
and the I don't want to face it. And you know,
you bring something really important of because I can't tell

(46:49):
you how many people I've worked with who've said, you know,
we had a couple group, we had a group of
people we used to hang out with. And now that
my wife, my husband my partner, my child has died.
I feel like I don't know where I fit in
And Frank the couple group not always, but we'll often

(47:10):
like just do things on their own and not be inclusive.
And it's perhaps their fear. It's it got if it
happened to you, it could happen to me, and it
may not even be so conscious. All, yeah, it may be.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
So we're of course running out of time. I always
think an hour is a long time, but it gets short.
Can you you talk about eleven phases of grief? Do
you have time to kind of go through them quickly?

Speaker 3 (47:37):
And so I think what I'd like to do instead
of just going through all of them, I'd like to
start with the beginning and end with the end and
talk about a few things in the middle. Does that
Does that work for you? Okay? Oh yeah, great, super so.
So the eleven phases are nonlinear. Okay. When Elizabeth Kobler
Ross brought in her beautiful, beautiful five five Stages of Grief,

(48:01):
they were for the dying, they weren't really for the living,
and that was her research and it was brilliant. However,
it's and it was more linear. Grief is not linear.
You know that it's nonlinear. It comes in, it goes out,
and all of the emotions that we experience are layered.
So I start with the first phase, and I named

(48:25):
them only to give some kind of order to saying, God,
I'm experiencing this phase, in this phase and this phase,
and they're all coming in together. But the first phase
I actually see as standing alone. And the reason I
see it standing alone, I call it the emotional armor phase.
And the emotional armor phase is where numbness and denial

(48:47):
and disregulation occur. Okay, and the disregulation is the loss
of this of truly like I don't even know who
I am right now, and that disregulated state or the
or the or the or or the shock that these
are these are all go tos. And what they do

(49:07):
is they they actually help you to escape to to
gather yourself, because numbness and that numbing is a gathering place.
And I see that throughout that nonlinear experience of grief,
that we will go back to the emotional armor phase
to collect ourselves. And so it can feel to you know,

(49:29):
the person who's grieving, I'm going backwards. No, You're just
spending time collecting yourself and it gives them the permission
to be in numbness, to be to revisit their their
their their their, their dysphoria or their sense of I
don't know what I'm doing right now, And I just
love the idea that the permission is given. And then

(49:52):
all the way at the end is grace. And I
think that grace is a place of calming. It's not
meant as a religious piece, but it is that that
calibration is around you more than not. But it doesn't
mean just because you get to grace and and and
you're you're in an incredibly anxious state and you've been angry,

(50:14):
and that those two phases are coalescing, and then somehow
you realize I don't have to be so angry, and
I can have conversations with my loved one, I can
write to them, I can write to the part of
myself that I've lost, and and I can calm my
anxiety through through some breath work and through some E

(50:34):
M d R or some self hypnosis. And these are
all tools that I teach people because I'm not the
healer they are, and and and that helps me get
to grace. And so that nonlinearity is the dance.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Oh that's wonderful. So you mentioned before we started that
you're focusing on something new and we've got two minutes
to describe it. Tell us about the sexual grief that
you were mentioned.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
Yes, yes, thank you, thank you so much. So this
is near and dear to my heart. What I've learned
is that sometimes people, when people are facing a complicated
grief or its complex, that there are past traumatic imprints
that have occurred that have been forgotten, and now as
they're dealing with something that they really didn't want to

(51:26):
deal with, other things that they didn't want to deal with,
or that their memories have protected them from, begin to
come out. And I'm calling this sexual grief at the
sexual grief effect, which it's a natural response to something
that's happened to you, maybe a long time ago, that
hurt you physically emotionally, and where you were touched without

(51:48):
permission or you saw someone touched without permission. And what
I teach is what I call the liberation protocol, where
you are moving from being stuck and kind of captive,
which is what you grief does, and you begin to
feel more liberated so that you can get to your
own love and you know what grief is about. It's
about getting to your loving of the self. So the

(52:10):
sexual grief effect is about learning about love.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
It's wonderful. Well, you have written a book, and I
would love to share the cover of that book. So
you might want to pull that up, Chris and tell
people how to reach you and how to get your book.
And I think he's pulling it up right now as
we speak. There we go. They're super that's how book

(52:37):
I have at like two more minutes.

Speaker 3 (52:40):
Okay, So this is this is the first book. It's Grief,
the Dance of Self Discovery through Trauma and Loss. The
artist of this cover, his name is Dave Cutler, and
he always does beautiful work that has so much symbolism.
And really what I see is that that grief you are,
you feel like you're on a precipice and you just

(53:00):
you know you need to take a leap of faith,
but you don't know how to take that leap of faith.
And that hand can be your hand, it can be
the spirit hand, that can be the hand of grace,
whatever it is. But I want you to have some
faith that there's something that's within you and perhaps part
of your community that's going to help you make that jump,

(53:22):
that leap, and that's that leap is part of your
own empowered self and is part of your fingerprint. And
so yes, and what also, as if you go to
my website, which is Ednathan dot com, you'll see that

(53:43):
I've got a course on grief and also this sexual
grief piece. There's a wonderful course through end science and
it's all on my website and it's it's it's the
unspoken wounds. And so I think that grief can be
an unspoken and wound, and I think that there are
things that complicate whatever healing means to you. It's not

(54:07):
for me toine, so I look forward to meeting you.
Please communicate to me via my website.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Thank you Stroy much, Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
This was a delicious conversation.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Well you are delicious and the talk is certainly important,
especially right now with everything we're going through in the world,
and you know, we're going to get through it and
it's going to be an incredible lesson for us, as
all grief is and all loss is, as you were
just saying, So keep up the good work over there.

(54:45):
And what is the website again? So people can find
it's Eadie, It's.

Speaker 3 (54:49):
Edie Nathan dot com. So it's my name. You can
see it on the book and you just put a
dot com after that. It's really straightforward.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Yeah, okay, thank you so much. And I hope we
can talk more about the sexual grief because that sounds
like a really juicy topic. Yes, thank you, and I
will see everybody next week on my next show. Thank
you so much.