August 14, 2023 • 47 mins
What else do you think we're going to discuss? Lionel Messi is in town for a semifinal that's part spectacle and part uber-meaningful match for the Philadelphia Union.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Well, this might be the biggestepisode of the Union Soccer podcast ever.
It's a big moment for not onlyMLS but for soccer in Philadelphia. Messi
coming into town for League's Cup andwe're breaking it all down right here on
the Union Soccer Podcasts. You canfind us wherever you get your podcasts.
(00:21):
You can also find us on theGambler Fox PHL Gambler dot com. You
will be listening to this on theradio as you are going to the game
as well, getting ready for theUnion taking on air in Miami and Lionel
Messi. It's a big matchup andthere's nobody I'd rather talk about that with
than Joe Tanzy. He's joining usright now. He is the co host
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of this fine podcast. You canfollow him at j Tanzy ninety on Twitter.
My name is John Jansen, followme at j Jansen thirty four.
Joe, it's not only you knowbig because Leake's Cup semi final, it's
big, obviously Messy coming into town. What would be your way initially of
kind of describing what this moment isfor the Union and for soccer in Philadelphia
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and Chester. It's a circus.It's like the Pope came to town,
or it's like when it's like it'slike when the Pope came Harrison. Actually,
yeah, that's a great comparison.Like this is even though we're kind
of comparing Messy to like this religious, huge figure, which in certain to
certain people, he is a religiousYeah, you're right, you're right,
Yeah, okay, it is likea religious almost he has gone in the
(01:27):
soccer world too. It kind offeels that way, right, Soccer can
get very cultish in certain the circusminute it is. And I mean if
you listen to how everyone talks abouthim and how he's revered as the greatest
of all time, and and look, when I was a kid, and
I still remember this, it's oneof my first sports memories is seeing Michael
(01:51):
Jordan at the Spectrum and we weresat up in the nosebleeds like we were
like two rows from the roof justto see him play. Me and my
dad And the one thing we stilljoke about this day, seeing Dennis robins
Hare from all the way up inthat part of the building. But it's
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something that it's a memory, andI think we have to kind of realize
that, like, yes, it'sgoing to be a complete circus. Things
are going to be a lot differentthan a regular Philadelphia Union match. But
I would say embrace it. AndI'm kind of speaking out loud to myself
being kind of very cynical of ofthings that go on behind the scenes.
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It's like once in a lifetime thing, you know, you have to embrace
it. And and that's just beforethe game. That the crazy atmosphere that
we're probably not going to see againin Chester, this clash of the diehard
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Union fans with people that are justshowing up to to see Messi. Hopefully
the balance is teeters in the Unionfans favor, because the last thing you
want is everybody ooing and eyeing thatthe secondly, you know, Messi touches
the ball and that speaks to thepoint of wanting to have this game at
(03:19):
Superhu Park, right, I thinkeverybody wants to try and have an opinion
about this and they're wrong. Isthat? Is that a fair word to
use about the whole Super Park?First, the link situation, at least
in this circumstance. Yeah, itshould not be in this circumstance. No,
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And I don't I don't think peoplerealize the from the outside that a.
First of all, it's a threeday turnaround for this to be confirmed,
whether or not it was a possibility, Yes, that lasted. You
have to plan for that, right, And can't just happen out of thin
air in three days, right,you can't just throw a game into link.
(04:05):
Look. First of all, homefield advantage. You want that because,
oh, by the way, ifyou win this game, you are
confirmed to be in Champions League,which huge. You don't have to worry
about anything else in terms of ChampionsLeague qualification. And oh, by the
way, you get to play forfinal inside your home stadium. You want
(04:27):
the home field advantage. And weran into Tim McDermott after the game on
Friday, and he really wanted tohave that home field advantage. He wanted
the city of Chester to have thisgame and look maybe for a twenty twenty
four regular season game when Miami comesto town. Yes, make it a
big deal, make it a spectaclebecause it's a regular season game. But
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from just a pure logistics standpoint,I mean, it's such a quick turnaround
for everyone behind the scenes. Getthe Union Stadium ready for messy now amplify
that times I don't know ten termsof security presence, just traffic, traffic
(05:14):
management the field. Like the Eaglesplay a preseason game on Thursday, they'd
have to, I would assume,have to have a little more advanced notice
on that, Like how just thefacilities, you know, the people in
stadium working, Like there's a lotbehind the scenes that people don't take into
account and they just you know,slap the tag of his take saying,
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oh, we're gonna have to justput it at the link because of you
know, that's what we should dofor big games. And know like the
stadium was built for a reason.Yeah, it's gonna suck logistically, but
you have your home field advantage.You're playing for something significant. And the
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thing that went through my mind iswould the Eagles would any other professional sports
team really, and maybe the Eaglesare a bad comparison, who would any
other team willingly move a game ofthat significance a semi final game so that
more neutral fans could come in rightto make it more of an event instead
of, hey, this is animportant game, because at that point,
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like you're you're making an event likea friendly or something, it's you know,
everything's about You're you're accommodating to MESSIat that point, you're not accommodating
to your team and what your teamneeds best in that moment. I completely
understand that. And it's not thatthe Union have the full share of the
gate either. Ian League's Cup isputting this whole ship bang on, from
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the ticket sales to the organizing,to the behind the scenes stuff. Like
I was walking around super Park todayand the amount of people in Black Leagues
Cup polos, who I assume arejust you know, are probably this traveling
circus of logistical people that have dealtwith messy or have been preparing to deal
(07:08):
with the messy circus that comes withit. They're doing everything around the stadium.
I mean, the amount of ChesterPolice and fire personnel that we're walking
around the stadium. I mean,how if you want to commit a crime
in Chester tomorrow night tomorrow is probablythe night because there's everybody's going to be
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at the stadium. I'm not sayingdo that, but you know what,
I oh, not literally, butjust you know, it's the presence there
is going to be you know,obviously going to be yeah, astronomical like
significant, and I mean and ontop of that, you know, I
was talking with the Union PR teamgot close to three hundred credential requests for
this game. Wow, for fora press box that holds a maximum of
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and they let Sean Brayson. Iknow that's ridiculous. Although to be to
be fair to Sean, and thisis where like I'm gonna try not to
be like super cynical because of hismessy I get the interest from it,
like Sean would actually do something withhis credential. He would make something.
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It's not like the news stations wherethey're coming in they asked the biggest b
asked questions you could imagine. Liketoday I found this. That's my favorite
rivalry in all of sports. Hisnewspaper journalists against TV journalists. It's my
favorite rivalry. And it's it's justit's just funny because because you're chasing different
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stories and so yes, there's there'salways gonna be Okay, Well I didn't
need that question while they did.But you don't need to ask You don't
need to ask a professional athlete.Are you going to feel the pressure?
Yeah, Like there there are certainquestions that like you have to ask if
you're doing like a general news reportof like hey, you know, what
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could this do for soccer in Philadelphia, probably nothing. If we're gonna be
honest with ourselves, the Messy fansare gonna come, they're gonna have their
time, they're gonna spend their money, they're gonna watch them on MESSI play
and yeah, maybe a handful ofthem convert to Union fans or they come
back. But you know, we'renot. Yeah, that's not said the
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same thing about all these other teamsthat have come into and yeah, and
that's what I'm you know, obviouslywe're more interested in you know, we
are. We are following the team, probably more than most, so that
my interest doesn't become, oh wow, it's Messy in town. My interest
becomes, you know, how dothe Union beat Miami with Messy who has
been great? And you know,how can they get to obviously the finals
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in the League's Cup, which wouldmean obviously a spot in the in the
Champions League suit like there there areall. That's what I'm more for,
you know, everything else it's thehoopla, the circus around Messy and you
know that's obviously we're talking about itnow. That's something we should be talking
about. I completely understand that,but to a certain point, for me.
I'm more interested in, Hey,Miami, you know has Messy and
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they've been great, and the Union, you've been one of the best teams
in the MLS. I'm interested more, and I think there has to be
interested around the league and people thatwatch the league. This is probably the
most interesting game of League's Cup sofar because Messi is going up against probably
the biggest test that they have sofar since Leagu's Cup. You know,
this is the best test. Theyhaven't played a team like the Union.
I think Tom Bogert said the closestthey got was a Orlando and we know
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Orlando isn't close to what the Union'scaliber of play is. So that's my
interest. Like, we're seeing thefirst test, you know, the first
really intriguing matchup for Messi in anMLS uniform, and it's coming in the
form of a League's Cup game againstthe Union and Chester. Now I think
that part for me becomes more interestingand I love that aspect of it.
Well, that's why it's a biggame, because it's a good game,
(10:46):
you know. That's that's why Ilike it. That's why he subscribes the
Union Soccer Blog. Yes, subscribea Union Soccer blog that's subsect dot com
because to your point, John Jansen, while everybody else was busy asking curtain
if if Messi can turn water intowine on the field tomorrow night, could
he especially the water in that river? I mean, yeah, that would
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be a miracle. That'd be I'dI'd be even more of a miracle than
that Jesus himself did back in theday. Although he'd be turning that wine
into one like yellowtail wine or somethinglike barefoot wine. It wouldn't be top
nine. You can't turn that inthe top Dutch wine, although a lot
of people would take some barefoot afterplanning for this team, so I talked
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with Damian Lowe, talked with AlejandraPerdya, and Andre Blake was up on
the pedestal, which, by theway, another all time moment. In
the press conference today, Andre Blake, who just very recently played Leno Messi
and Argentina but Jamaica, was asked, how would it feel if you made
a save awfull Leon Messi? Wouldhe in the last twelve and what do
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you mean, I've been on abigger state, like I've been on the
biggest stages, you know, likeplus Andre Blake's hard because there are a
few questions today where he just youknow, he was asked specifically about the
ticket situation and like what's he What'sAndre Blake gonna do about the Philadelphia Union
tickets? But he handled it likea pro. That's such a great point
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of like we're talking about guys thathave played in the World Cup, what
so on a big global stage.Those part is is handled over Union soccer.
Bluck. If you were listening thison Tuesday, it's already in your
inbox if you subscribe, because DamianLowe and Andre Blake have played against him.
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I believe Jose Martinez has as well. And then Alejandre Badoya shared this
little anecdote with us, at leastwith me. The Copa America centenario back
in twenty sixteen, the US didplay Argentina one hundred. Boa was suspended
and the story he was like JermaineJones stuck up for him because there was
(13:09):
a tackle involving him and Antonio Valencia, former Manchester United player, and all
I gotta yellow. Jermaine Jones,in a shocking twist of events, picked
up a red card so he didnot play against Messi in that game,
which would so tomorrow would be afirst for all a hundred as well.
But it's good to get the insighton guys that have seen a lot and
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also have seen Messi in person.And the conclusion kind of is, well,
you can't really a hundred percent stophim, but if you contain him
and take you chop off the headof the snake, and that's Sergio Busquez
and I think a lot of peopleif you're into the x's and nose soccer
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part of this, that piece isgonna speak more to you. And that's
kind of what I've could have beenaiming for with this because it is such
a fascinating matchup. And the oneperson that multiple people mentioned today interviews is
Sergio Busquets. He has to bestopped. Yes, it's about messy,
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messy, messy, but yeah,there's you have to get it to Messi.
I mean, I know once heonce he gets it, he creates
so much on his own. Butyeah, right, there's there's gotta be
somebody to get it to him.And if Kim Curtain's line was if if
Messi already has the ball, we'vemade a mistake and it's too late.
Yeah. Oh, exactly right.It makes a ton of sense. That's
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that's the fascinating part. We'll getLet's get into the excess and nose because
it's the Union have some some questionmarks and one very big glaring question mark
at the forward position right now.And yeah, if you're if you're in
troubling because you know, because youknow obviously Messi is going to score,
and so you need all of yourfirepower. And one of the guys that's
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probably been the best in your yoursquad this season in Kara, so his
his injury, that is that isa big deal because the Union are going
to have to score. Now.Look, they still can. Gosdag still
there Ula even though I know Kurtinsaid, you know he wasn't too impressed
with in the last outing, butstill good. But still Union can match
up well against Miami's defense. Thecounter attack seems to work well. But
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I guess the question is to you, Joe, without Kranza, is there
enough firepower? I don't even knowif with Coronza there's firepower because Coronza hasn't
been firing, got his at hisbest yet or his best in recent weeks.
I'll be honest with you, Ithink the fatigue is caught up to
this entire team, I really do. Can you blame them? Like really,
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if that is the case, canyou blame them? I mean,
it's been a ton of games.It's been a ton I think I think
you started to see that on Friday. They are just a team that's worn
down. Luckily, the Coronza andGozic injuries are and severe. Godsdagg Jim
said he's Hungarian, He's tough,so Gods deg will play tomorrow, he
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will start. Caranza has a Gradeone hamstring string, probably shouldn't play tomorrow,
but if they need him very late, maybe to take a Pek Jim
Curtin said that's a possibility. ButDoya is back as well. I think
that's a vital piece you have offthe bench because you're gonna have to do
a lot of running tomorrow night todeal with boosquets. But yeah, I
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mean watching that game on Friday againstCorette to Row, it just really felt
like they had just run out ofgas. And I mean Chris Donovan's the
rescue because I don't know if theyI don't know if they get out of
Pek's. I really don't Andre Blake'snot the best pek saver. I think
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we've we've seen that throughout the years. It's not his top skill set.
He can make a save or twoin the peks for sure, but he's
not automatic. And it just feltlike you're you're tempting your fate if you
do that three times La Rowe.It's very hard to do, and especially
with the players they had out there. By the end of the match.
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I mean, we were in thepress box trying to figure out who are
your five PK takers out of thatgroup and it was a huge struggle.
So thankfully it didn't get to thatpoint. But yeah, I really do
think that the fatigue is really creepingin now. And man, it's such
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a difficult task. And Miami's gotan extra day arrest. No, they
don't have an extray arrest. They'vethey've played Friday, but they have had
extra day going into They also haven'tplayed nearly as many games to the Union,
that's true, and they've ling onMESSI so I guess the oh and
that as well. Yeah, soI think if if if you're the Union,
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and we'll go go into detail onthis and I'll write it out as
well, because there's some really fascinatingquotes from from everybody that talked today.
They're gonna play the three at theback. It's gonna be local ass and
Elliott. Harry's gonna play on theright, Wagner's gonna play on the left.
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I don't think that's a secret toanyone. Jim's been flipping by Zone
Harryel and I think Harryl's aerial abilityin this matchup is going to help.
Now. I know some people havebeen against the three at the back.
It's just that's that's the preferred formationright now. And to get the best
eleven on the field, that isyour your best eleven. I think that
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the only real question here is you'regonna play God's dag, probably in a
more advanced role. I would Iknow who is in the doghouse, but
you've got to put your best forwardout there. I would be stunned if
if Kurtin We're to pull the moveof moves and put Chris Donovan opposite Lionel
MESSI. You know, hey,he was on the graphic alright, he
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was on the least cup of graphic, Joil. But I think you need
as speed. I think you needthis wottle play. I think there are
ways to to get behind the Miamidefense. The one thing that everyone has
pointed out is the FC Dallas gamethat the Miami played it two rounds ago,
where Dallas struck them on the counterof Alasco just hawked for boost Gatz
and it worked until it didn't withDallas and they just ran out of gas.
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Put in the tremendous effort. Ithought Tafari the center back was was
really good in the day and Velasco, I mean that's would put in a
tremendous, tremendous two way effort.And if as Ferrara is maybe a little
more clinical in front of goal,we're talking about a completely different matchup.
So that's if you apply those thingsto the Union they put either. I
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think Bueno is the one that endsup hawking scats because godsdeck is gonna be
a little further forward. You useUwa's feed to get in behind and isolate
Miami's defenders one feed one So thenI think it really just comes down to
your your final midfield spot. Youknow who gets that, and I think
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it's gonna be Leon Flock. Ithink they're gonna try out Martinez, Bueno
and Flock in midfield three. Thatway, they have McGlenn and Bedoya to
run off the bench. I don'tthink this is the game for McGlenn.
I think this is the game forall your your grit and hustle guys in
the middle of the park. It'snot going to be pretty. Jim Curtin
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has already conceded Miami's gonna have thebulk of possession, and I think the
Union are okay with that. They'renot a team that likes to possess anyway,
So yeah, that's I think that'show it's gonna line up. I
think it kind of picks itself giventhe matchup, and then the only the
decision I think he has to makeis does he go McGlenn or Flock from
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the start, And I don't knowwhat the decision would be. I think
you can make a strong case ineither decision because McGlenn gives you more playmaking
ability and you're not bunkering at home. But Flock also gives you that pest.
That's what he's going to be,you know, like him or not,
Leon Flock is going to be justa total pest. Whoever is in
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midfield, and if Miami's gonna relyon somebody other than Bousquets to get the
job done, Flock is gonna haveto play a heavy role or Jack McGlynn.
His defensive ability has his defensive abilityhas significantly improved over these last few
months, So maybe you take arisk. But I think that's the only
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I think that's the only decision thecurtain has to make. I think for
all his faults and how bad heplayed, he did make an impact off
the bench against the Red Bulls.He was getting in behind and isolating the
defender one pet one And it's theteam you'll have a chance to do that
with against Miami, right he will. The Union wouldn't specifically say what are
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the specific weaknesses they're pinporting, butI think if you watch Miami, if
you watch them once or twice,I've watched the FC Dallas game all the
way through, they're vulnerable on thecounter. And yeah, if Chris Donovan
can be your past off the bench, Quinn Sullivan can give you effort off
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the bench, I think those arethe guys you go to in the sixtieth
minute. But I think the goalis to not lose this game in the
first thirty and then the first fortyfive. And I mean, I think
I'm still scarred covering so many failedPhiladelphia Union Major Cup games, like I
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still have the Houston game scarred inmy memory because that game is over.
So do the Union have this biggame let down thing? To you?
Is that? Is that? Whatit is? What are you scarred from?
I mean, I'm just I havea love scar tissue. And I
know a bunch of Union fans dotoo. Yeah, I know from obviously,
Uh, you know the Sounders andSporty Kansas Sea. I know this
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is a completely different version of theUnion. But when when you are the
underdog, let's just say, it'slike the Eagles are you know, great
team last year? I shouldn't haveworried in any playoff game, and yet
because of previous years and teams areweren't as good, I get so nervous
about how they're going to play andreact in a big game like that,
even though it's right, it's completelyunworded. The team, yeah, exactly,
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human nature, very very yes,very good. But I think they're
they're much much more equipped to dothis, uh, in a proper manner.
And contain Messy. That's what itcomes down to, I really do.
And when you look at this thisgroup, you know, I know
everybody's made the joke about Martinez gettingthe yellow card within twenty minutes. Wouldn't
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be surprised that I made that joke, and Tom Bogert, by the way,
we've all made that joke. Ido want to ask you about that
though, because obviously, you knowwe can make the joke of it.
But you know, what is there? What's the kind of pushing pull here?
Because you want Martinez to be Martinez, but you know, if he
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gets if he gets even a littletoo physical with somebody like MESSI, you
know, obviously there's there's a possibilityhe does get a yellow and he gets
himself in trouble. So what whatis kind of the game plan you think
from Martinez side of thing? Obviouslyjust kind of let him be him,
But is there any concern there?Do you like the matchup Martinez in particular,
because I mean, that's we jokeabout it, but yeah, that's
there's a lot of attention to him. Yeah, I think you could apply
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some of the similar principles from youknow, games against LAFC and how you
approach it mentally. Obviously it's differentbecause Messi's in the field, but you're
looking for like a comparison, likea comfortable level that a player should reach,
And I think that's what if you'reMartinez, that's that's what you pinpoint
for. I just the one thingI would say from And this is again
(25:17):
all based off of the Dallas game, because I think the matchup wise it
would being a road game, andthe way FC Dallas approached that game,
I think the Union can learn alot from that more than any other game.
Is It's also the only game Iwatched Messy because at the time of
complics, but that's besides the point. But it really is. It really
(25:37):
is a good example of what theUnion can do. You can't concede free
kicks from thirty, say thirty fiveyards in, because Messi will will kill
you. You have Andre Blake,but if you test your luck too much,
Messi is gonna is gonna kill you. And that could be the difference
(25:59):
between hosting a third place game andhosting a final. If the Union are
more than capable of winning this game, I think we all know that,
but you have to also be awareof the threat that the opponent possesses,
and if you look at the Union'sweaknesses, you can't can't be overly aggressive
(26:22):
in the final third, in thedefensive third, because if you are,
it's gonna lead the fouls, it'sgonna leave the significant chances. And if
you can at least force Miami todo everything on their own, if you're
choking up the impact that Bousquets hasin midfield and that way, Messi's forced
(26:44):
to go all over the field searchingfootball, which he's more than capable of
doing. But if if Messi dropsdeeper and has to play those one two
mid one two three, you know, and the more passes he has to
make, just make life difficult onhim. He's going to He's going to
put balls on that regardless. Butif you can make the ninety minutes as
(27:06):
a whole difficult, and if youcan if those shots that usually come from
the edge of the box maybe comefrom twenty five yards out, you make
the degree of difficulty higher. Iswhat you have to do in this There's
no perfect answer for it, becauseno MLS team A has the personnel and
(27:26):
B has proven they have had thegame plan. Yet in the chances they've
gotten it, whether the Atlanta Orlandoor at FC Dallas or Charlotte. That
that being said, none of thoseteams are in the echelon of where the
Union are at right now. SoI think that's why everybody is pointing to
this from inside MLS perspective as thisis the big test to see if if
(27:48):
this Miami thing is is going towork immediately or if sometime is gonna Yeah,
is going to need for all thesefixes to be minute out to Martino's
health manager. He's had success inthe MLS before, So maybe that,
you know, playing Atlanta on onmultiple occasions in big situations, if you're
(28:10):
the Union, maybe that ends uphelping you from a managerial standpoint, Like
you're looking for these little little thingsagainst Miami of what you've seen in the
past to pick apart or what yousee on film to pick apart, and
trust me, there's there's been filmreviews since early last week. The Union
(28:33):
have been preparing in earnest for thismatchup. They will they will come in
prepared, there's no doubt about that. But what they what they do with
that preparation for means to be seen. You were tuned into the Union Soccer
podcast with myself, John Jansen andJoe Tanzy getting you ready for Union and
Miami, Big Week in Chester,Big Day in Chester. So we we
(28:56):
mentioned scoring in you know why theUnion do have an opportunity here to score?
What is it about this matchup?The last time they played June twenty
fourth, Union put up four goals, So what what can the Union do?
Why do they match up so wellagainst Miami's back line? Well,
nothing about that matchup can be takeninto its right, I don't think,
(29:18):
because yes, some of the personnelis still there, but it's you know,
todd to Martinez now had a fewgames to implement his personal managerial style
and then Busquets Jordi Alba on thedefensive side of things and on the wings
from the attack perspective, and ofcourse Messy are into it. So there's
(29:40):
some obviously still some weak links thecenter backs, mainly here where the Union
can exploit. But it has tocome down to the clinical finishing. Like
you we can say, you know, they get three B two or four
v three whatever movie forward, butif they can't finish, if if a
(30:03):
Goztag, if his was bueno,whoever it is, I mean, they
got to be able to take advantageof those opportunities, and recently they haven't.
It's been really poor. I thinkwhat kind of summed it up for
me today was talking to Alejandra Badoyaabout the fans and the environment. He's
like, I don't care what they'redoing, and need we need them to
(30:26):
encourage us. I'm paraphrasing. Andwhen it was the DC game, I
believe or Red Bulls, I forgetwhich game it was, and the river
end just like midway through the firsthalf of like, hey, Union,
wake the f up and and all, it was like that was the right
message because we were dreadful and youcan't have those those spells against Miami because
(30:49):
they'll punish you. Like it reallydoes have to be a perfect ninety minutes.
And that's why I feel like I'mcalling about twenty five teen ish,
you know, Open Cup Final eraUnion, and I'm applying a kind of
the same mindset to that. It'snot the same in terms of personnel and
(31:11):
where the Union stand at the table, but in terms of a just having
flashbacks to how they kind of howyou kind of do these things. It
really does feel like we're talking aboutUnion one point five, two point zero,
whatever you want to call it,instead of Union, you know three
point zero and the Tanner era wherethings have changed drastically, Like we know
(31:34):
they can go toe to toe withanybody in the league, with Cincinnati,
with LAFC, with Nashville. HellI would I think everybody would love to
see Nashville come here because Monterre isgonna bring the same type of circus Modteri
is gonna bring it a ton offans as well, and it's gonna be
a lot like the Club America matchin Champions League a few years ago,
(31:55):
and it's there. I think Monteraihas the best roster left in the competition,
and anybody will disagree with that.So I guess if you're Jim Curtain,
maybe you do kind of dig tapinto that a little bit. Yeah,
of course everybody's motivated play messy,but you're the underdogs. A lot
(32:15):
of people are talking about messy,messy messy, Like Channel three, Channel
six, Channel ten, Fox twentynine. They ain't coming in here to
talk about the Philadelphia Union. Nope, They're here to talk about Lionel Messi.
The only reason why these news stationsand a bunch of people that have
no business being in the press boxother than one game are gonna be there
(32:39):
tomorrow. Is because off Leonel MESSI. If you're a Jim Curtain, use
that message, why not? Imean, it's true, absolutely use it.
And they use that message a lot, you know, I haven't they
in previous previous games like this,you know, anytime they are an underdog
or overlooked and Curtains nailed that messagepretty well. But yeah, I mean
(33:02):
it's a it's a weird, weirdenvironment. What does that environment do to
a game like this? You know, because it is Look, it's a
it's a tight game. It's notlike the Union haven't been in big games
before. They were an MLS Cup, you know, had Eastern Conference championships
in Subaru Park. I mean,but obviously this is this is a little
(33:22):
bit of a different level. Theenvironment. Look good thing it's in Zubaru
Park. It's going to be verypro Union, is going to be more
Union fans than just neutral Messi fans. But I mean, what does an
environment do to a game like this? Is it going to leave things opened
up? I mean, what whatdoes what does something like this, this
environment do for a clash like this. So it's fascinating because I've used all
(33:46):
these Open Cup comparisons and that,but that was back when the Union didn't
belong there. Now they belong inthese types of games, and so I
think internally that motivation is different,the confidence is different because they've played in
all these big type of games.The problem is with Miami, you got
(34:10):
guys who three guys who have playedin Champions League finals and World Cup finals.
Like these guys almost they do,actually not almost perform better when the
pressure and spotlight are further on them, and it's still coincidence, like they've
had so much success with all thosemoments. So it's it's such a bizarre,
(34:38):
bizarre situation because the Union are respondingto all these questions about like again
from the outside of today as anexample down Chester where you know, the
news reporters are asking the Union playerslike, oh, how do you manage
this? And it almost felt slightlydisrespectful beca because if you do two seconds
(35:02):
of research, you know this teamhas dealt with all sorts of pressure.
But is the pressure of playing anMLS Cup different from the pressure playing Lionel
Messi in your home stadium in asemi final. I don't know the answer
that, you know what I mean. So it's like it's very hard to
gauge of like what where everything willbe. We'll get a very clear picture
(35:25):
of it right before kickoff. We'llknow if it's gonna be a little more
on the pro mess side than peoplewant it to be. There's gonna be
all sorts of energy in that billand Tomorrow night, positive, negative,
whatever it may be, it's definitelygonna be the loudest you've ever heard that
(35:46):
place. I mean, you're gonnahear You're gonna hear SUPERU Park across the
river in Sweetsboro. I'll guarantee youthat, or whatever debt, it's close
enough, close enough, whatever,whatever whatever Farmland and Deep in Gloucester County
is in Salem County is across theriver, you'll hear it from super Park
(36:07):
tomor because it's gonna be that electric. I mean, how guy, I've
joked around with Sean Brayson like youmight you might be really relegated to a
floating press box on the Delaware becauseof how many people are gonna be in
there tomorrow night. I wouldn't putit past somebody to just like end up
(36:29):
on a on a boat with likean elevated platform of some sort. I
don't know. It's probably not againstthe rules, and the fire marshals have
probably snuffed that possibility out in theirpreparation meetings. I wouldn't be surprised if
somebody tries to like, you knowthat, you know, we happen to
have a boat. We don't havetickets, you know, see what we
can do. I would not besurprised. People are insane when it comes
(36:52):
to message. Like I said,it's like when the Pope cut came to
town. It really is gonna They'regonna be. They're gonna be people who
who by parking passes just to parkand and be in the same presence,
breathe the same air as Lionel Messi. I don't think some people comprehend just
(37:12):
how insane. Yeah, yeah,I think I think us as soccer fans
get it. But like from theoutside, I don't think people have a
grasp on just like God is comingto Chester. That's the best way I
can describe it, Like the godof all soccer gods is coming to Chester
(37:38):
and people will do whatever it takesto even see Lionel MESSI like super Park
is sold out, I guarantee youthere. I would say hundreds of people
are just going to be in Chesterto just get a glimpse, be a
part of it. Like that's it'ssomething we've never seen and might not see
(38:01):
again. Because if you're the Union, when you do have full control of
the gate, you take the gamenext year in the regular season and put
it at the link because you haveso much planning and you can sacrifice one
regular season game for that type ofspectacle. But you know, in the
(38:21):
Union's minds this if everybody else's mindsus as an event, in the Union's
mind this is an elimination game.And I think that's kind of where we're
going to get the mix of ofeverything, and it's going to be unprecedented
from what we've seen ever in Chesterand what we you know, may not
(38:43):
ever see again, because like Isaid, I would, I would put
good money that the twenty twenty fourregular season game is the only way we
see this. We see something similarto this is if Miami comes here in
the playoffs. So I want toget into the odds of the event show.
We haven't done that in a while, but I do want to bring
up some of the odds. Unionnot many times an underdog at home?
(39:07):
When does that really happen? Unionthe first time in two years underdog at
plus one ninety the draw plus twosixty Miami plus one twenty five. When
you hear those numbers, what isthat? What is that? And also
to advance because obviously release cup Unionplus one of five Miami minus one fifty
to advance anything with those numbers,reaction or anything that stands out to you.
(39:30):
I think when you see those numbers, you got about the Union.
If you're a Union fan, likeI know a few people already I've seen
comment and say that's I'm taking theUnion at that price because why wouldn't you?
You know, if you have thatmuch confidence in this team. Super
Park has been a fortress for them. Yeah, I mean that that feels
(39:50):
like the way to go. Now. I know why the books have done
this because you and I've talked aboutthis in previous podcast where there's so much
money coming in on it to Miamiand Lionel Messi himself. What are what
are Messi's odds to score to Markbecause they were minus one thirty five.
Anytime you want to know who.Like one of the shortest odds for the
Union are probably plus one eighty fiveto score anytime Caranza. Yeah, no
(40:20):
he's not. No, no,no, don't bet that, not saying
not saying too bet that. I'msaying that is why it's always funny to
see that with soccer and mostly MLS, but other than that, for the
Union, Godz Dog plus two tenCornza plus one eighty, Joseph Martinez plus
one seventy Uah plus two twenty fiveand those are really all the scores at
least for the Union. Just sortof care about. Yeah, I guess
(40:45):
he won thirty five or even isthat even short enough? Like I feel
like mine is one thirty five isis a great number to bet? Still,
yeah, given given what he's done, I mean you have to.
I mean, it's gonna be unprecedentedwhen you see the number go up to
a certain point at minus went eight. And look, it's going to get
to that point very soon because he'sgoing to be scoring in every single game,
(41:06):
but for the moment it's not happeningyet. Minus one thirty five seems
to me like a great number forsomething that has been automatic since met and
even against the Union. I know, I know the Union's defense and Andre
Blake all that, but it's Messy. Messy's going to score. You know,
Messi's going to get one and likelytoo. Right if you if you
walk away from tomorrow night's game andyou bet Messy to score and he doesn't
(41:30):
score, you're just like, Okay, well he's already the tracker or says
he's going to do it, Sowe're kind of just like, well,
you know what credits to the Union. I think that's what you have to
say. And I wouldn't be surprisedif if some people have that mentality because
it is such a short price forhim, and trust me, that's gonna
(41:52):
go up. That that thing is. I would not be surprised if by
the last weekend in August, it'sgonna be a ridiculous when my when Miami
plays the Red Bulls in their firstMLS game. Uh, since Messi's signing,
I would not be surprised if he'sabout minus two hundred, I guess
(42:13):
I think so that's surprised we shouldexpect for from Messi moving forward. Yeah,
so minus one thirty five, you'reyou're in on that. I think
I'm in on that as well.You have to be right, I think
the other one. Look, thisis me just kind of calling my shot
here. But if you're the Union, if you're creating these these counter attacking
opportunities, and they're gonna lead theset pieces in some capacity, right,
(42:43):
I would not be surprised if JackElliott's coursed. Oh Jack Elliott, let
me see if I can find whereverthe heck he is, because I feel
like there's gonna be plus if there'sgonna be some sort of involvement on a
set piece, which I think therewill be, God, it feels inevitable
because of how the Union are goingto be set up to counter. If
(43:07):
you're looking at it from a bettingperspective, why not take a look at
the Union center backs. Would wetake a look at Harriel as well?
Absolutely? Absolutely, because of hisaerial presence. Absolutely, that would be
an angle I would maybe sprinkle onif if you don't have any confidence in
Michael Hua at this point, Iknow a lot of people don't. If
(43:29):
godzagg it's only going sixty, whoknows what, Like he's gonna put everything
he has in the tank out there. But if if he can't go past
sixty and if you at least knowthe center backs are going to be on
the field for the most part,I think that's, you know, something
to maybe keep in mind is ifyou're looking for something outside of the box
(43:50):
to sprinkle. I also think JosephMartinez is worth a shot as well,
because if the Union are are aresmothering Messy and smothering bousquets, Martinez might
have to get involve, all right, Joe. Final thoughts on Messi coming
to Subaru Park as we wrap thingsup here in the Union Soccer Pod.
It is going to be a circus. I'm going to embrace all of it.
(44:10):
I'm not going to be I'm notgoing to be a scenic and skeptical
of all this. I'm just gonnaembrace it. See what happens, and
man, it's it's definitely gonna bea once in a lifetime experience. I've
seen Messi played before, but thatwas in MetLife Stadium where things were a
(44:34):
lot more contained and spread out.This is on a riesday night. That's
what I think is the appeal ofit for someone like you and us,
like just seeing Suparu Park like that, It's going to be crazy to me
to see it like that, andwe've seen big environments obviously, we've seen
championship games, conference championship players there, but this is different. I mean,
(44:54):
to see Superpark like this is goingto be a wild experience for again,
someone like you who has seen thatstadium not particularly filled all that much
and now seeing it like it iswith Messy, I'm sure for you that's
gonna be a you know, wherethey were and where they where they've come.
Because obviously it's it's one. Itis mostly you know, I want
(45:17):
to say, like ninety percent,like it's all Messy. I understand that.
But it also helps that the Unionhave been good, like this is
a semi final League's Cup game.The Union are one of the best teams
in the MLS. This is thebiggest test Messi is going to face so
far in an inner Miami uniform likethat. That adds to it for me,
(45:38):
that that is going to add tothe environment. I know it added
to it just because Messi's in townfor Dallas and and all that's but it's
it's just a it's a different feelingfor me because it's not just all eyes
on Philly, you know, alleyes on messy. It's all eyes on
this game because even MLS fans justfans of of the of the league and
fans of soccer. This is abig game, you know, for this
(46:00):
tournament and these teams, and Ithink that to me adds to it,
adds to the environment. Yeah,I mean it's gonna be phenomenal. I
really just can't wait to experience it. I can't either. All Right.
That is it for the Union SoccerPod. Joe, I have a great
time at the game covering it.I hope you get the soak in the
moment because again, you have coveredthis team through thick and thin. You've
(46:22):
been there through a lot of crazymoments. You've been there for not so
memorable moments. You've been there forit all. And I'm glad you get
to be there for this moment andthis chapter in Union soccer history. Union
Soccer Blog that Substack dot Com.Subscribe, Subscribe, subscribe, subscribe to
the best to cover the Union,and that is Joe Tansy. Can also
(46:43):
follow him at Jay Tanzy ninety.My name is John jansonollw me at j
Janson thirty four. Again find theUnion Sucker Pod wherever you get your podcasts,
which it also includes Fox PHL,Gambler dot Com. That is it
for the Union Soccer podcast. Enjoythe game, hopefully a Union win against
mess Wow, that is a weirdsentence to say We'll be back next time,
right here on the Union Sucker Podcast
Well, this might be the biggestepisode of the Union Soccer podcast ever.
It's a big moment for not onlyMLS but for soccer in Philadelphia. Messi
coming into town for League's Cup andwe're breaking it all down right here on
the Union Soccer Podcasts. You canfind us wherever you get your podcasts.
(00:21):
You can also find us on theGambler Fox PHL Gambler dot com. You
will be listening to this on theradio as you are going to the game
as well, getting ready for theUnion taking on air in Miami and Lionel
Messi. It's a big matchup andthere's nobody I'd rather talk about that with
than Joe Tanzy. He's joining usright now. He is the co host
(00:42):
of this fine podcast. You canfollow him at j Tanzy ninety on Twitter.
My name is John Jansen, followme at j Jansen thirty four.
Joe, it's not only you knowbig because Leake's Cup semi final, it's
big, obviously Messy coming into town. What would be your way initially of
kind of describing what this moment isfor the Union and for soccer in Philadelphia
(01:04):
and Chester. It's a circus.It's like the Pope came to town,
or it's like when it's like it'slike when the Pope came Harrison. Actually,
yeah, that's a great comparison.Like this is even though we're kind
of comparing Messy to like this religious, huge figure, which in certain to
certain people, he is a religiousYeah, you're right, you're right,
Yeah, okay, it is likea religious almost he has gone in the
(01:27):
soccer world too. It kind offeels that way, right, Soccer can
get very cultish in certain the circusminute it is. And I mean if
you listen to how everyone talks abouthim and how he's revered as the greatest
of all time, and and look, when I was a kid, and
I still remember this, it's oneof my first sports memories is seeing Michael
(01:51):
Jordan at the Spectrum and we weresat up in the nosebleeds like we were
like two rows from the roof justto see him play. Me and my
dad And the one thing we stilljoke about this day, seeing Dennis robins
Hare from all the way up inthat part of the building. But it's
(02:13):
something that it's a memory, andI think we have to kind of realize
that, like, yes, it'sgoing to be a complete circus. Things
are going to be a lot differentthan a regular Philadelphia Union match. But
I would say embrace it. AndI'm kind of speaking out loud to myself
being kind of very cynical of ofthings that go on behind the scenes.
(02:38):
It's like once in a lifetime thing, you know, you have to embrace
it. And and that's just beforethe game. That the crazy atmosphere that
we're probably not going to see againin Chester, this clash of the diehard
(02:59):
Union fans with people that are justshowing up to to see Messi. Hopefully
the balance is teeters in the Unionfans favor, because the last thing you
want is everybody ooing and eyeing thatthe secondly, you know, Messi touches
the ball and that speaks to thepoint of wanting to have this game at
(03:19):
Superhu Park, right, I thinkeverybody wants to try and have an opinion
about this and they're wrong. Isthat? Is that a fair word to
use about the whole Super Park?First, the link situation, at least
in this circumstance. Yeah, itshould not be in this circumstance. No,
(03:43):
And I don't I don't think peoplerealize the from the outside that a.
First of all, it's a threeday turnaround for this to be confirmed,
whether or not it was a possibility, Yes, that lasted. You
have to plan for that, right, And can't just happen out of thin
air in three days, right,you can't just throw a game into link.
(04:05):
Look. First of all, homefield advantage. You want that because,
oh, by the way, ifyou win this game, you are
confirmed to be in Champions League,which huge. You don't have to worry
about anything else in terms of ChampionsLeague qualification. And oh, by the
way, you get to play forfinal inside your home stadium. You want
(04:27):
the home field advantage. And weran into Tim McDermott after the game on
Friday, and he really wanted tohave that home field advantage. He wanted
the city of Chester to have thisgame and look maybe for a twenty twenty
four regular season game when Miami comesto town. Yes, make it a
big deal, make it a spectaclebecause it's a regular season game. But
(04:49):
from just a pure logistics standpoint,I mean, it's such a quick turnaround
for everyone behind the scenes. Getthe Union Stadium ready for messy now amplify
that times I don't know ten termsof security presence, just traffic, traffic
(05:14):
management the field. Like the Eaglesplay a preseason game on Thursday, they'd
have to, I would assume,have to have a little more advanced notice
on that, Like how just thefacilities, you know, the people in
stadium working, Like there's a lotbehind the scenes that people don't take into
account and they just you know,slap the tag of his take saying,
(05:35):
oh, we're gonna have to justput it at the link because of you
know, that's what we should dofor big games. And know like the
stadium was built for a reason.Yeah, it's gonna suck logistically, but
you have your home field advantage.You're playing for something significant. And the
(05:58):
thing that went through my mind iswould the Eagles would any other professional sports
team really, and maybe the Eaglesare a bad comparison, who would any
other team willingly move a game ofthat significance a semi final game so that
more neutral fans could come in rightto make it more of an event instead
of, hey, this is animportant game, because at that point,
(06:21):
like you're you're making an event likea friendly or something, it's you know,
everything's about You're you're accommodating to MESSIat that point, you're not accommodating
to your team and what your teamneeds best in that moment. I completely
understand that. And it's not thatthe Union have the full share of the
gate either. Ian League's Cup isputting this whole ship bang on, from
(06:45):
the ticket sales to the organizing,to the behind the scenes stuff. Like
I was walking around super Park todayand the amount of people in Black Leagues
Cup polos, who I assume arejust you know, are probably this traveling
circus of logistical people that have dealtwith messy or have been preparing to deal
(07:08):
with the messy circus that comes withit. They're doing everything around the stadium.
I mean, the amount of ChesterPolice and fire personnel that we're walking
around the stadium. I mean,how if you want to commit a crime
in Chester tomorrow night tomorrow is probablythe night because there's everybody's going to be
(07:28):
at the stadium. I'm not sayingdo that, but you know what,
I oh, not literally, butjust you know, it's the presence there
is going to be you know,obviously going to be yeah, astronomical like
significant, and I mean and ontop of that, you know, I
was talking with the Union PR teamgot close to three hundred credential requests for
this game. Wow, for fora press box that holds a maximum of
(07:54):
and they let Sean Brayson. Iknow that's ridiculous. Although to be to
be fair to Sean, and thisis where like I'm gonna try not to
be like super cynical because of hismessy I get the interest from it,
like Sean would actually do something withhis credential. He would make something.
(08:15):
It's not like the news stations wherethey're coming in they asked the biggest b
asked questions you could imagine. Liketoday I found this. That's my favorite
rivalry in all of sports. Hisnewspaper journalists against TV journalists. It's my
favorite rivalry. And it's it's justit's just funny because because you're chasing different
(08:35):
stories and so yes, there's there'salways gonna be Okay, Well I didn't
need that question while they did.But you don't need to ask You don't
need to ask a professional athlete.Are you going to feel the pressure?
Yeah, Like there there are certainquestions that like you have to ask if
you're doing like a general news reportof like hey, you know, what
(08:56):
could this do for soccer in Philadelphia, probably nothing. If we're gonna be
honest with ourselves, the Messy fansare gonna come, they're gonna have their
time, they're gonna spend their money, they're gonna watch them on MESSI play
and yeah, maybe a handful ofthem convert to Union fans or they come
back. But you know, we'renot. Yeah, that's not said the
(09:18):
same thing about all these other teamsthat have come into and yeah, and
that's what I'm you know, obviouslywe're more interested in you know, we
are. We are following the team, probably more than most, so that
my interest doesn't become, oh wow, it's Messy in town. My interest
becomes, you know, how dothe Union beat Miami with Messy who has
been great? And you know,how can they get to obviously the finals
(09:39):
in the League's Cup, which wouldmean obviously a spot in the in the
Champions League suit like there there areall. That's what I'm more for,
you know, everything else it's thehoopla, the circus around Messy and you
know that's obviously we're talking about itnow. That's something we should be talking
about. I completely understand that,but to a certain point, for me.
I'm more interested in, Hey,Miami, you know has Messy and
(10:00):
they've been great, and the Union, you've been one of the best teams
in the MLS. I'm interested more, and I think there has to be
interested around the league and people thatwatch the league. This is probably the
most interesting game of League's Cup sofar because Messi is going up against probably
the biggest test that they have sofar since Leagu's Cup. You know,
this is the best test. Theyhaven't played a team like the Union.
I think Tom Bogert said the closestthey got was a Orlando and we know
(10:24):
Orlando isn't close to what the Union'scaliber of play is. So that's my
interest. Like, we're seeing thefirst test, you know, the first
really intriguing matchup for Messi in anMLS uniform, and it's coming in the
form of a League's Cup game againstthe Union and Chester. Now I think
that part for me becomes more interestingand I love that aspect of it.
Well, that's why it's a biggame, because it's a good game,
(10:46):
you know. That's that's why Ilike it. That's why he subscribes the
Union Soccer Blog. Yes, subscribea Union Soccer blog that's subsect dot com
because to your point, John Jansen, while everybody else was busy asking curtain
if if Messi can turn water intowine on the field tomorrow night, could
he especially the water in that river? I mean, yeah, that would
(11:11):
be a miracle. That'd be I'dI'd be even more of a miracle than
that Jesus himself did back in theday. Although he'd be turning that wine
into one like yellowtail wine or somethinglike barefoot wine. It wouldn't be top
nine. You can't turn that inthe top Dutch wine, although a lot
of people would take some barefoot afterplanning for this team, so I talked
(11:35):
with Damian Lowe, talked with AlejandraPerdya, and Andre Blake was up on
the pedestal, which, by theway, another all time moment. In
the press conference today, Andre Blake, who just very recently played Leno Messi
and Argentina but Jamaica, was asked, how would it feel if you made
a save awfull Leon Messi? Wouldhe in the last twelve and what do
(12:00):
you mean, I've been on abigger state, like I've been on the
biggest stages, you know, likeplus Andre Blake's hard because there are a
few questions today where he just youknow, he was asked specifically about the
ticket situation and like what's he What'sAndre Blake gonna do about the Philadelphia Union
tickets? But he handled it likea pro. That's such a great point
(12:22):
of like we're talking about guys thathave played in the World Cup, what
so on a big global stage.Those part is is handled over Union soccer.
Bluck. If you were listening thison Tuesday, it's already in your
inbox if you subscribe, because DamianLowe and Andre Blake have played against him.
(12:45):
I believe Jose Martinez has as well. And then Alejandre Badoya shared this
little anecdote with us, at leastwith me. The Copa America centenario back
in twenty sixteen, the US didplay Argentina one hundred. Boa was suspended
and the story he was like JermaineJones stuck up for him because there was
(13:09):
a tackle involving him and Antonio Valencia, former Manchester United player, and all
I gotta yellow. Jermaine Jones,in a shocking twist of events, picked
up a red card so he didnot play against Messi in that game,
which would so tomorrow would be afirst for all a hundred as well.
But it's good to get the insighton guys that have seen a lot and
(13:31):
also have seen Messi in person.And the conclusion kind of is, well,
you can't really a hundred percent stophim, but if you contain him
and take you chop off the headof the snake, and that's Sergio Busquez
and I think a lot of peopleif you're into the x's and nose soccer
(13:54):
part of this, that piece isgonna speak more to you. And that's
kind of what I've could have beenaiming for with this because it is such
a fascinating matchup. And the oneperson that multiple people mentioned today interviews is
Sergio Busquets. He has to bestopped. Yes, it's about messy,
(14:15):
messy, messy, but yeah,there's you have to get it to Messi.
I mean, I know once heonce he gets it, he creates
so much on his own. Butyeah, right, there's there's gotta be
somebody to get it to him.And if Kim Curtain's line was if if
Messi already has the ball, we'vemade a mistake and it's too late.
Yeah. Oh, exactly right.It makes a ton of sense. That's
(14:35):
that's the fascinating part. We'll getLet's get into the excess and nose because
it's the Union have some some questionmarks and one very big glaring question mark
at the forward position right now.And yeah, if you're if you're in
troubling because you know, because youknow obviously Messi is going to score,
and so you need all of yourfirepower. And one of the guys that's
(14:56):
probably been the best in your yoursquad this season in Kara, so his
his injury, that is that isa big deal because the Union are going
to have to score. Now.Look, they still can. Gosdag still
there Ula even though I know Kurtinsaid, you know he wasn't too impressed
with in the last outing, butstill good. But still Union can match
up well against Miami's defense. Thecounter attack seems to work well. But
(15:20):
I guess the question is to you, Joe, without Kranza, is there
enough firepower? I don't even knowif with Coronza there's firepower because Coronza hasn't
been firing, got his at hisbest yet or his best in recent weeks.
I'll be honest with you, Ithink the fatigue is caught up to
this entire team, I really do. Can you blame them? Like really,
(15:45):
if that is the case, canyou blame them? I mean,
it's been a ton of games.It's been a ton I think I think
you started to see that on Friday. They are just a team that's worn
down. Luckily, the Coronza andGozic injuries are and severe. Godsdagg Jim
said he's Hungarian, He's tough,so Gods deg will play tomorrow, he
(16:08):
will start. Caranza has a Gradeone hamstring string, probably shouldn't play tomorrow,
but if they need him very late, maybe to take a Pek Jim
Curtin said that's a possibility. ButDoya is back as well. I think
that's a vital piece you have offthe bench because you're gonna have to do
a lot of running tomorrow night todeal with boosquets. But yeah, I
(16:32):
mean watching that game on Friday againstCorette to Row, it just really felt
like they had just run out ofgas. And I mean Chris Donovan's the
rescue because I don't know if theyI don't know if they get out of
Pek's. I really don't Andre Blake'snot the best pek saver. I think
(16:55):
we've we've seen that throughout the years. It's not his top skill set.
He can make a save or twoin the peks for sure, but he's
not automatic. And it just feltlike you're you're tempting your fate if you
do that three times La Rowe.It's very hard to do, and especially
with the players they had out there. By the end of the match.
(17:15):
I mean, we were in thepress box trying to figure out who are
your five PK takers out of thatgroup and it was a huge struggle.
So thankfully it didn't get to thatpoint. But yeah, I really do
think that the fatigue is really creepingin now. And man, it's such
(17:37):
a difficult task. And Miami's gotan extra day arrest. No, they
don't have an extray arrest. They'vethey've played Friday, but they have had
extra day going into They also haven'tplayed nearly as many games to the Union,
that's true, and they've ling onMESSI so I guess the oh and
that as well. Yeah, soI think if if if you're the Union,
(18:00):
and we'll go go into detail onthis and I'll write it out as
well, because there's some really fascinatingquotes from from everybody that talked today.
They're gonna play the three at theback. It's gonna be local ass and
Elliott. Harry's gonna play on theright, Wagner's gonna play on the left.
(18:21):
I don't think that's a secret toanyone. Jim's been flipping by Zone
Harryel and I think Harryl's aerial abilityin this matchup is going to help.
Now. I know some people havebeen against the three at the back.
It's just that's that's the preferred formationright now. And to get the best
eleven on the field, that isyour your best eleven. I think that
(18:45):
the only real question here is you'regonna play God's dag, probably in a
more advanced role. I would Iknow who is in the doghouse, but
you've got to put your best forwardout there. I would be stunned if
if Kurtin We're to pull the moveof moves and put Chris Donovan opposite Lionel
MESSI. You know, hey,he was on the graphic alright, he
(19:07):
was on the least cup of graphic, Joil. But I think you need
as speed. I think you needthis wottle play. I think there are
ways to to get behind the Miamidefense. The one thing that everyone has
pointed out is the FC Dallas gamethat the Miami played it two rounds ago,
where Dallas struck them on the counterof Alasco just hawked for boost Gatz
and it worked until it didn't withDallas and they just ran out of gas.
(19:33):
Put in the tremendous effort. Ithought Tafari the center back was was
really good in the day and Velasco, I mean that's would put in a
tremendous, tremendous two way effort.And if as Ferrara is maybe a little
more clinical in front of goal,we're talking about a completely different matchup.
So that's if you apply those thingsto the Union they put either. I
(19:57):
think Bueno is the one that endsup hawking scats because godsdeck is gonna be
a little further forward. You useUwa's feed to get in behind and isolate
Miami's defenders one feed one So thenI think it really just comes down to
your your final midfield spot. Youknow who gets that, and I think
(20:17):
it's gonna be Leon Flock. Ithink they're gonna try out Martinez, Bueno
and Flock in midfield three. Thatway, they have McGlenn and Bedoya to
run off the bench. I don'tthink this is the game for McGlenn.
I think this is the game forall your your grit and hustle guys in
the middle of the park. It'snot going to be pretty. Jim Curtin
(20:41):
has already conceded Miami's gonna have thebulk of possession, and I think the
Union are okay with that. They'renot a team that likes to possess anyway,
So yeah, that's I think that'show it's gonna line up. I
think it kind of picks itself giventhe matchup, and then the only the
decision I think he has to makeis does he go McGlenn or Flock from
(21:03):
the start, And I don't knowwhat the decision would be. I think
you can make a strong case ineither decision because McGlenn gives you more playmaking
ability and you're not bunkering at home. But Flock also gives you that pest.
That's what he's going to be,you know, like him or not,
Leon Flock is going to be justa total pest. Whoever is in
(21:26):
midfield, and if Miami's gonna relyon somebody other than Bousquets to get the
job done, Flock is gonna haveto play a heavy role or Jack McGlynn.
His defensive ability has his defensive abilityhas significantly improved over these last few
months, So maybe you take arisk. But I think that's the only
(21:48):
I think that's the only decision thecurtain has to make. I think for
all his faults and how bad heplayed, he did make an impact off
the bench against the Red Bulls.He was getting in behind and isolating the
defender one pet one And it's theteam you'll have a chance to do that
with against Miami, right he will. The Union wouldn't specifically say what are
(22:11):
the specific weaknesses they're pinporting, butI think if you watch Miami, if
you watch them once or twice,I've watched the FC Dallas game all the
way through, they're vulnerable on thecounter. And yeah, if Chris Donovan
can be your past off the bench, Quinn Sullivan can give you effort off
(22:33):
the bench, I think those arethe guys you go to in the sixtieth
minute. But I think the goalis to not lose this game in the
first thirty and then the first fortyfive. And I mean, I think
I'm still scarred covering so many failedPhiladelphia Union Major Cup games, like I
(22:57):
still have the Houston game scarred inmy memory because that game is over.
So do the Union have this biggame let down thing? To you?
Is that? Is that? Whatit is? What are you scarred from?
I mean, I'm just I havea love scar tissue. And I
know a bunch of Union fans dotoo. Yeah, I know from obviously,
Uh, you know the Sounders andSporty Kansas Sea. I know this
(23:17):
is a completely different version of theUnion. But when when you are the
underdog, let's just say, it'slike the Eagles are you know, great
team last year? I shouldn't haveworried in any playoff game, and yet
because of previous years and teams areweren't as good, I get so nervous
about how they're going to play andreact in a big game like that,
even though it's right, it's completelyunworded. The team, yeah, exactly,
(23:41):
human nature, very very yes,very good. But I think they're
they're much much more equipped to dothis, uh, in a proper manner.
And contain Messy. That's what itcomes down to, I really do.
And when you look at this thisgroup, you know, I know
everybody's made the joke about Martinez gettingthe yellow card within twenty minutes. Wouldn't
(24:04):
be surprised that I made that joke, and Tom Bogert, by the way,
we've all made that joke. Ido want to ask you about that
though, because obviously, you knowwe can make the joke of it.
But you know, what is there? What's the kind of pushing pull here?
Because you want Martinez to be Martinez, but you know, if he
(24:25):
gets if he gets even a littletoo physical with somebody like MESSI, you
know, obviously there's there's a possibilityhe does get a yellow and he gets
himself in trouble. So what whatis kind of the game plan you think
from Martinez side of thing? Obviouslyjust kind of let him be him,
But is there any concern there?Do you like the matchup Martinez in particular,
because I mean, that's we jokeabout it, but yeah, that's
there's a lot of attention to him. Yeah, I think you could apply
(24:49):
some of the similar principles from youknow, games against LAFC and how you
approach it mentally. Obviously it's differentbecause Messi's in the field, but you're
looking for like a comparison, likea comfortable level that a player should reach,
And I think that's what if you'reMartinez, that's that's what you pinpoint
for. I just the one thingI would say from And this is again
(25:17):
all based off of the Dallas game, because I think the matchup wise it
would being a road game, andthe way FC Dallas approached that game,
I think the Union can learn alot from that more than any other game.
Is It's also the only game Iwatched Messy because at the time of
complics, but that's besides the point. But it really is. It really
(25:37):
is a good example of what theUnion can do. You can't concede free
kicks from thirty, say thirty fiveyards in, because Messi will will kill
you. You have Andre Blake,but if you test your luck too much,
Messi is gonna is gonna kill you. And that could be the difference
(25:59):
between hosting a third place game andhosting a final. If the Union are
more than capable of winning this game, I think we all know that,
but you have to also be awareof the threat that the opponent possesses,
and if you look at the Union'sweaknesses, you can't can't be overly aggressive
(26:22):
in the final third, in thedefensive third, because if you are,
it's gonna lead the fouls, it'sgonna leave the significant chances. And if
you can at least force Miami todo everything on their own, if you're
choking up the impact that Bousquets hasin midfield and that way, Messi's forced
(26:44):
to go all over the field searchingfootball, which he's more than capable of
doing. But if if Messi dropsdeeper and has to play those one two
mid one two three, you know, and the more passes he has to
make, just make life difficult onhim. He's going to He's going to
put balls on that regardless. Butif you can make the ninety minutes as
(27:06):
a whole difficult, and if youcan if those shots that usually come from
the edge of the box maybe comefrom twenty five yards out, you make
the degree of difficulty higher. Iswhat you have to do in this There's
no perfect answer for it, becauseno MLS team A has the personnel and
(27:26):
B has proven they have had thegame plan. Yet in the chances they've
gotten it, whether the Atlanta Orlandoor at FC Dallas or Charlotte. That
that being said, none of thoseteams are in the echelon of where the
Union are at right now. SoI think that's why everybody is pointing to
this from inside MLS perspective as thisis the big test to see if if
(27:48):
this Miami thing is is going towork immediately or if sometime is gonna Yeah,
is going to need for all thesefixes to be minute out to Martino's
health manager. He's had success inthe MLS before, So maybe that,
you know, playing Atlanta on onmultiple occasions in big situations, if you're
(28:10):
the Union, maybe that ends uphelping you from a managerial standpoint, Like
you're looking for these little little thingsagainst Miami of what you've seen in the
past to pick apart or what yousee on film to pick apart, and
trust me, there's there's been filmreviews since early last week. The Union
(28:33):
have been preparing in earnest for thismatchup. They will they will come in
prepared, there's no doubt about that. But what they what they do with
that preparation for means to be seen. You were tuned into the Union Soccer
podcast with myself, John Jansen andJoe Tanzy getting you ready for Union and
Miami, Big Week in Chester,Big Day in Chester. So we we
(28:56):
mentioned scoring in you know why theUnion do have an opportunity here to score?
What is it about this matchup?The last time they played June twenty
fourth, Union put up four goals, So what what can the Union do?
Why do they match up so wellagainst Miami's back line? Well,
nothing about that matchup can be takeninto its right, I don't think,
(29:18):
because yes, some of the personnelis still there, but it's you know,
todd to Martinez now had a fewgames to implement his personal managerial style
and then Busquets Jordi Alba on thedefensive side of things and on the wings
from the attack perspective, and ofcourse Messy are into it. So there's
(29:40):
some obviously still some weak links thecenter backs, mainly here where the Union
can exploit. But it has tocome down to the clinical finishing. Like
you we can say, you know, they get three B two or four
v three whatever movie forward, butif they can't finish, if if a
(30:03):
Goztag, if his was bueno,whoever it is, I mean, they
got to be able to take advantageof those opportunities, and recently they haven't.
It's been really poor. I thinkwhat kind of summed it up for
me today was talking to Alejandra Badoyaabout the fans and the environment. He's
like, I don't care what they'redoing, and need we need them to
(30:26):
encourage us. I'm paraphrasing. Andwhen it was the DC game, I
believe or Red Bulls, I forgetwhich game it was, and the river
end just like midway through the firsthalf of like, hey, Union,
wake the f up and and all, it was like that was the right
message because we were dreadful and youcan't have those those spells against Miami because
(30:49):
they'll punish you. Like it reallydoes have to be a perfect ninety minutes.
And that's why I feel like I'mcalling about twenty five teen ish,
you know, Open Cup Final eraUnion, and I'm applying a kind of
the same mindset to that. It'snot the same in terms of personnel and
(31:11):
where the Union stand at the table, but in terms of a just having
flashbacks to how they kind of howyou kind of do these things. It
really does feel like we're talking aboutUnion one point five, two point zero,
whatever you want to call it,instead of Union, you know three
point zero and the Tanner era wherethings have changed drastically, Like we know
(31:34):
they can go toe to toe withanybody in the league, with Cincinnati,
with LAFC, with Nashville. HellI would I think everybody would love to
see Nashville come here because Monterre isgonna bring the same type of circus Modteri
is gonna bring it a ton offans as well, and it's gonna be
a lot like the Club America matchin Champions League a few years ago,
(31:55):
and it's there. I think Monteraihas the best roster left in the competition,
and anybody will disagree with that.So I guess if you're Jim Curtain,
maybe you do kind of dig tapinto that a little bit. Yeah,
of course everybody's motivated play messy,but you're the underdogs. A lot
(32:15):
of people are talking about messy,messy messy, Like Channel three, Channel
six, Channel ten, Fox twentynine. They ain't coming in here to
talk about the Philadelphia Union. Nope, They're here to talk about Lionel Messi.
The only reason why these news stationsand a bunch of people that have
no business being in the press boxother than one game are gonna be there
(32:39):
tomorrow. Is because off Leonel MESSI. If you're a Jim Curtain, use
that message, why not? Imean, it's true, absolutely use it.
And they use that message a lot, you know, I haven't they
in previous previous games like this,you know, anytime they are an underdog
or overlooked and Curtains nailed that messagepretty well. But yeah, I mean
(33:02):
it's a it's a weird, weirdenvironment. What does that environment do to
a game like this? You know, because it is Look, it's a
it's a tight game. It's notlike the Union haven't been in big games
before. They were an MLS Cup, you know, had Eastern Conference championships
in Subaru Park. I mean,but obviously this is this is a little
(33:22):
bit of a different level. Theenvironment. Look good thing it's in Zubaru
Park. It's going to be verypro Union, is going to be more
Union fans than just neutral Messi fans. But I mean, what does an
environment do to a game like this? Is it going to leave things opened
up? I mean, what whatdoes what does something like this, this
environment do for a clash like this. So it's fascinating because I've used all
(33:46):
these Open Cup comparisons and that,but that was back when the Union didn't
belong there. Now they belong inthese types of games, and so I
think internally that motivation is different,the confidence is different because they've played in
all these big type of games.The problem is with Miami, you got
(34:10):
guys who three guys who have playedin Champions League finals and World Cup finals.
Like these guys almost they do,actually not almost perform better when the
pressure and spotlight are further on them, and it's still coincidence, like they've
had so much success with all thosemoments. So it's it's such a bizarre,
(34:38):
bizarre situation because the Union are respondingto all these questions about like again
from the outside of today as anexample down Chester where you know, the
news reporters are asking the Union playerslike, oh, how do you manage
this? And it almost felt slightlydisrespectful beca because if you do two seconds
(35:02):
of research, you know this teamhas dealt with all sorts of pressure.
But is the pressure of playing anMLS Cup different from the pressure playing Lionel
Messi in your home stadium in asemi final. I don't know the answer
that, you know what I mean. So it's like it's very hard to
gauge of like what where everything willbe. We'll get a very clear picture
(35:25):
of it right before kickoff. We'llknow if it's gonna be a little more
on the pro mess side than peoplewant it to be. There's gonna be
all sorts of energy in that billand Tomorrow night, positive, negative,
whatever it may be, it's definitelygonna be the loudest you've ever heard that
(35:46):
place. I mean, you're gonnahear You're gonna hear SUPERU Park across the
river in Sweetsboro. I'll guarantee youthat, or whatever debt, it's close
enough, close enough, whatever,whatever whatever Farmland and Deep in Gloucester County
is in Salem County is across theriver, you'll hear it from super Park
(36:07):
tomor because it's gonna be that electric. I mean, how guy, I've
joked around with Sean Brayson like youmight you might be really relegated to a
floating press box on the Delaware becauseof how many people are gonna be in
there tomorrow night. I wouldn't putit past somebody to just like end up
(36:29):
on a on a boat with likean elevated platform of some sort. I
don't know. It's probably not againstthe rules, and the fire marshals have
probably snuffed that possibility out in theirpreparation meetings. I wouldn't be surprised if
somebody tries to like, you knowthat, you know, we happen to
have a boat. We don't havetickets, you know, see what we
can do. I would not besurprised. People are insane when it comes
(36:52):
to message. Like I said,it's like when the Pope cut came to
town. It really is gonna They'regonna be. They're gonna be people who
who by parking passes just to parkand and be in the same presence,
breathe the same air as Lionel Messi. I don't think some people comprehend just
(37:12):
how insane. Yeah, yeah,I think I think us as soccer fans
get it. But like from theoutside, I don't think people have a
grasp on just like God is comingto Chester. That's the best way I
can describe it, Like the godof all soccer gods is coming to Chester
(37:38):
and people will do whatever it takesto even see Lionel MESSI like super Park
is sold out, I guarantee youthere. I would say hundreds of people
are just going to be in Chesterto just get a glimpse, be a
part of it. Like that's it'ssomething we've never seen and might not see
(38:01):
again. Because if you're the Union, when you do have full control of
the gate, you take the gamenext year in the regular season and put
it at the link because you haveso much planning and you can sacrifice one
regular season game for that type ofspectacle. But you know, in the
(38:21):
Union's minds this if everybody else's mindsus as an event, in the Union's
mind this is an elimination game.And I think that's kind of where we're
going to get the mix of ofeverything, and it's going to be unprecedented
from what we've seen ever in Chesterand what we you know, may not
(38:43):
ever see again, because like Isaid, I would, I would put
good money that the twenty twenty fourregular season game is the only way we
see this. We see something similarto this is if Miami comes here in
the playoffs. So I want toget into the odds of the event show.
We haven't done that in a while, but I do want to bring
up some of the odds. Unionnot many times an underdog at home?
(39:07):
When does that really happen? Unionthe first time in two years underdog at
plus one ninety the draw plus twosixty Miami plus one twenty five. When
you hear those numbers, what isthat? What is that? And also
to advance because obviously release cup Unionplus one of five Miami minus one fifty
to advance anything with those numbers,reaction or anything that stands out to you.
(39:30):
I think when you see those numbers, you got about the Union.
If you're a Union fan, likeI know a few people already I've seen
comment and say that's I'm taking theUnion at that price because why wouldn't you?
You know, if you have thatmuch confidence in this team. Super
Park has been a fortress for them. Yeah, I mean that that feels
(39:50):
like the way to go. Now. I know why the books have done
this because you and I've talked aboutthis in previous podcast where there's so much
money coming in on it to Miamiand Lionel Messi himself. What are what
are Messi's odds to score to Markbecause they were minus one thirty five.
Anytime you want to know who.Like one of the shortest odds for the
Union are probably plus one eighty fiveto score anytime Caranza. Yeah, no
(40:20):
he's not. No, no,no, don't bet that, not saying
not saying too bet that. I'msaying that is why it's always funny to
see that with soccer and mostly MLS, but other than that, for the
Union, Godz Dog plus two tenCornza plus one eighty, Joseph Martinez plus
one seventy Uah plus two twenty fiveand those are really all the scores at
least for the Union. Just sortof care about. Yeah, I guess
(40:45):
he won thirty five or even isthat even short enough? Like I feel
like mine is one thirty five isis a great number to bet? Still,
yeah, given given what he's done, I mean you have to.
I mean, it's gonna be unprecedentedwhen you see the number go up to
a certain point at minus went eight. And look, it's going to get
to that point very soon because he'sgoing to be scoring in every single game,
(41:06):
but for the moment it's not happeningyet. Minus one thirty five seems
to me like a great number forsomething that has been automatic since met and
even against the Union. I know, I know the Union's defense and Andre
Blake all that, but it's Messy. Messy's going to score. You know,
Messi's going to get one and likelytoo. Right if you if you
walk away from tomorrow night's game andyou bet Messy to score and he doesn't
(41:30):
score, you're just like, Okay, well he's already the tracker or says
he's going to do it, Sowe're kind of just like, well,
you know what credits to the Union. I think that's what you have to
say. And I wouldn't be surprisedif if some people have that mentality because
it is such a short price forhim, and trust me, that's gonna
(41:52):
go up. That that thing is. I would not be surprised if by
the last weekend in August, it'sgonna be a ridiculous when my when Miami
plays the Red Bulls in their firstMLS game. Uh, since Messi's signing,
I would not be surprised if he'sabout minus two hundred, I guess
(42:13):
I think so that's surprised we shouldexpect for from Messi moving forward. Yeah,
so minus one thirty five, you'reyou're in on that. I think
I'm in on that as well.You have to be right, I think
the other one. Look, thisis me just kind of calling my shot
here. But if you're the Union, if you're creating these these counter attacking
opportunities, and they're gonna lead theset pieces in some capacity, right,
(42:43):
I would not be surprised if JackElliott's coursed. Oh Jack Elliott, let
me see if I can find whereverthe heck he is, because I feel
like there's gonna be plus if there'sgonna be some sort of involvement on a
set piece, which I think therewill be, God, it feels inevitable
because of how the Union are goingto be set up to counter. If
(43:07):
you're looking at it from a bettingperspective, why not take a look at
the Union center backs. Would wetake a look at Harriel as well?
Absolutely? Absolutely, because of hisaerial presence. Absolutely, that would be
an angle I would maybe sprinkle onif if you don't have any confidence in
Michael Hua at this point, Iknow a lot of people don't. If
(43:29):
godzagg it's only going sixty, whoknows what, Like he's gonna put everything
he has in the tank out there. But if if he can't go past
sixty and if you at least knowthe center backs are going to be on
the field for the most part,I think that's, you know, something
to maybe keep in mind is ifyou're looking for something outside of the box
(43:50):
to sprinkle. I also think JosephMartinez is worth a shot as well,
because if the Union are are aresmothering Messy and smothering bousquets, Martinez might
have to get involve, all right, Joe. Final thoughts on Messi coming
to Subaru Park as we wrap thingsup here in the Union Soccer Pod.
It is going to be a circus. I'm going to embrace all of it.
(44:10):
I'm not going to be I'm notgoing to be a scenic and skeptical
of all this. I'm just gonnaembrace it. See what happens, and
man, it's it's definitely gonna bea once in a lifetime experience. I've
seen Messi played before, but thatwas in MetLife Stadium where things were a
(44:34):
lot more contained and spread out.This is on a riesday night. That's
what I think is the appeal ofit for someone like you and us,
like just seeing Suparu Park like that, It's going to be crazy to me
to see it like that, andwe've seen big environments obviously, we've seen
championship games, conference championship players there, but this is different. I mean,
(44:54):
to see Superpark like this is goingto be a wild experience for again,
someone like you who has seen thatstadium not particularly filled all that much
and now seeing it like it iswith Messy, I'm sure for you that's
gonna be a you know, wherethey were and where they where they've come.
Because obviously it's it's one. Itis mostly you know, I want
(45:17):
to say, like ninety percent,like it's all Messy. I understand that.
But it also helps that the Unionhave been good, like this is
a semi final League's Cup game.The Union are one of the best teams
in the MLS. This is thebiggest test Messi is going to face so
far in an inner Miami uniform likethat. That adds to it for me,
(45:38):
that that is going to add tothe environment. I know it added
to it just because Messi's in townfor Dallas and and all that's but it's
it's just a it's a different feelingfor me because it's not just all eyes
on Philly, you know, alleyes on messy. It's all eyes on
this game because even MLS fans justfans of of the of the league and
fans of soccer. This is abig game, you know, for this
(46:00):
tournament and these teams, and Ithink that to me adds to it,
adds to the environment. Yeah,I mean it's gonna be phenomenal. I
really just can't wait to experience it. I can't either. All Right.
That is it for the Union SoccerPod. Joe, I have a great
time at the game covering it.I hope you get the soak in the
moment because again, you have coveredthis team through thick and thin. You've
(46:22):
been there through a lot of crazymoments. You've been there for not so
memorable moments. You've been there forit all. And I'm glad you get
to be there for this moment andthis chapter in Union soccer history. Union
Soccer Blog that Substack dot Com.Subscribe, Subscribe, subscribe, subscribe to
the best to cover the Union,and that is Joe Tansy. Can also
(46:43):
follow him at Jay Tanzy ninety.My name is John jansonollw me at j
Janson thirty four. Again find theUnion Sucker Pod wherever you get your podcasts,
which it also includes Fox PHL,Gambler dot Com. That is it
for the Union Soccer podcast. Enjoythe game, hopefully a Union win against
mess Wow, that is a weirdsentence to say We'll be back next time,
right here on the Union Sucker Podcast
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