Is intermittent fasting the key to better metabolic health? How does nutrition impact aging and strength? In this episode of Prevention Over Prescription with Dr. K, Cynthia Thurlow breaks down the science of fasting, muscle health, and the gut microbiome—especially for women in perimenopause and menopause. Learn why protein intake is essential, how lifestyle choices shape long-term health, and whether fasting is right for you.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The views expressed in the following program are those of
the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of
SAGA nine sixty am or its management.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Plcastination. I'm super excited to share something I've been working
on that is close to my heart, Guyada Nutrition. As
many of you know, my mission is to keep people
healthy and out of the ICU. GOT nutrition is a
big part of that goal. Our supplements are health Candida
approved and made only with the highest quality ingredients. Whether
(00:39):
you're looking for protein powder to fuel your workouts, collagen
to support your joints, magnesium to boost recovery and sleep,
god in Nutricia has you covered. This just isn't about
selling products. It's about building a community of people who
are committed to their health. I want you all to
be Guyadas strong, strong in body, strong in mind, and
ready to tackle whatever life flows your way. Now for
(01:02):
my quodcast, Nation got a special offer. You can get
fifteen percent off of your order by going to guy
Added Nutrition dot com. That's gya Ta Nutrition dot com
and use that promo code Quodcast fifteen at checkout and
say fifteen percent. So if you're ready to take that
next step in your health journey, fuel your body with
high quality science back supplements. Head over to Guida nutrition
(01:26):
dot com and grab what you need. Thanks for all
the support and let's continue to show up as your
best self. Stay gad as strong everyone. Next, I want
to tell you about Elements. That's lmn T for real.
The key to proper hydration isn't just water, it's water
plus electrolytes. This balance is vital to avoid issues like
muscle cramps energy dips often caused by dilution of electrolyte levels.
(01:51):
So enter Element, an electrolyte drink mix that's tasty, convenient,
and free from sugar and artificial additives. Element provides optimal
ratios of sodium, potassium, and magnesium, ensuring not only health
and performance benefits, but also a delightful tasty experience like
orange salt, citrus salt, and then new and delicious watermelon
(02:13):
salt my favorite. And for those that sign up, you
get a free sample and to celebrate our partnership right now,
we're offering a free sample pack on your first order.
You simply have to go to drink Element dot com
Backslashquadcast that's drink Element dot com backslash kwa dcast quoteas Nation.
(02:36):
I gotta say I say this often, but this truly
is a special episode because Cynthia and I I've really
felt we bonded at you Da Ammonia. I got to
go on her show, did a live inview, and she
left me just touched by everything that she's doing, how
(02:58):
she's changing live and hearing about her own personal clinical story,
and then how she developed the skills to reach out
to so many of y'all really was inspirational. So Cynthia,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So good to be here. And like you said, I
do feel like we had this incredible connection. I got
an opportunity to meet your beautiful wife and just really
be able to record in person, which I think for
so many of us. Most of us are recording kind
of distantly, but there's just some kind of unique energy
when you can record in person with another guest. So
(03:36):
very grateful to be here.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
That is so true. I thought there was a bit
of magic, but and I haven't had an experience since that,
so it's really really hit home there. So let's start
off with how we got here. Cynthia, you're a nurse
practitioner and you now have this amazing platform to promote
(03:59):
healthy living. How did it start for you?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Well, I always say I start as I am a
reformed adrenaline junkie. So I was an ear nurse back
in inner city Baltimore and transition kind of effortlessly into
becoming a nurse practitioner in cardiology. And so I did
that for over sixteen years as an MP, and then
I just got tired of writing prescriptions. I was so
(04:24):
fatigued from addressing a lot of chronic health issues here
in the US from the perspective of waiting till we
get disease. And then I have patients that are on
twenty thirty medications. You start them on a diuretic that
gives them low potassium. Then you put them on low potassium.
The next thing you know, they've got gout or's my
patients used to call it gouch. And I just started
(04:45):
to become more interested in lifestyle measures. I became more passionate,
obviously about internet fasting, and so it's hard to believe.
Almost nine years ago August sorry April first, twenty sixteen
is when I left traditional allopath medicine to really kind
of start my own practice and really focusing and niching
in from that whole adrenaline junkie fueled environment to really
(05:09):
focusing in on women north of thirty five, so women
that are in perimenopause and menopause, because nine years ago
there was even less discussion than where there is now,
and I felt that women needed a voice and they
needed good information instead of fear mongering and telling women, oh,
you put on fifteen twenty pounds, just accept it. This
is just the way things are. And I heard that
(05:30):
from a doctor, by the way, and I love my
physician friends, so I'm just kind of being transparent and
saying I heard all the things that women share with
me now, so I get how frustrating that can be.
And so now the rest of my lifetime is really
devoted to helping women in this unique stage of life
and reminding people that the really cool thing about our
(05:50):
medical training is that it translates into so many other
things that you can do that still utilize your training,
but utilize it and amplification of your messaging. And especially
I know both of us really narrow, like Niche down
on talking about the role of lifestyle and why that's
so important. And I think if more people understood the
(06:11):
importance of sleep and stress management, and the proper human
diet is ken Barry likes to call it, but I
like to call it nutrient and dense whole foods diet
and really moving our bodies every day. I mean, a
lot of those lifestyle things would solve a lot of
the problems that we're seeing. And so kind of getting
back to basics is a lot of what I focus
(06:32):
on now. And to be honest, it's incredibly gratifying and
I feel very grateful and appreciative. Then I'm able to
do it.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
So, Cynthia, how did you come to the realization that
lifestyle modifications, these changes will be effective, Because, let's be honest,
we don't talk about it in medical school. I'd imagine
in p school this is not a flavor. So how
did you come to the realization that this is a possibility.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Well, I think, you know, life kind of imitates art,
and I have a child who has life threatening food allergies.
Only thirty percent of kids will outwear their food allergies,
and unfortunately Jack is not. And when he was diagnosed
as a toddler he was two at the time, the
allergist looked at my husband and I and said carry
an EpiPen and prey. I mean, honest to God, that's
(07:22):
what I was told. And I was terrified. And so
that got me started really thinking differently about nutrition and
wanting to learn as much as possible. And so I
was kind of an early adopter to really making all
the food. I didn't feel like it was safe to
take him to restaurants. This wasn't you know, almost twenty
years ago. They just didn't have the access to nut free,
(07:45):
peanut free, and he has peanut and try nut allergies.
Just feeling like if I took him to a restaurant,
I wasn't sure if there wasn't cross contamination. And the
thought of giving my young child and EpiPen was terrifying,
even though I've seen plenty of anaphylaxis, like the worst
case scenario that happens when you've come in contact with
something that you're allergic to. So I think that initially
(08:05):
got me interested in nutrition, And in fact, my colleagues
lovingly would tease me. They're like, this is the NP
that likes to talk about food, and so they would
refer patients to me, I want you to do an
nutrition consult I want you to talk to patients. And
I would say, of the people that referred to me,
maybe half of them were open to talking about nutrition.
So the ones that were really validated for me that
(08:28):
there was a need for this. And then that kind
of branched out into how often we eat, how frequently
we eat, so it got me interested intermint fasting, and
then it branched out into other things. Dare I say
talking to patients about things as simple as do you
sleep enough? How are you managing your stress? I lived
in a very hustle bustle part of the United States.
I lived in Washington, d C. My patients had horrific commutes.
(08:51):
The cost of living is very high. Around two thousand
and eight timeframe. That was the first of you know,
the kind of you know, housing market ashes, and I
had patients that were telling me just terrific stories trying
to manage paying their mortgage and not losing their homes.
And so for me, it just became kind of a
natural extension based on what I had gone through as
a parent with a child with life threatening food allergies
(09:14):
that he has never outgrown, to you know, shifting this focus.
And one of the things that I would say to
anyone listening, is that I trust my gut. I know
that that's you know, some people might say, well, that
isn't per se away to lead your lifestyle, But I've
come to find that life will sometimes give me little
opportunities to change my perspective on things, and so I
(09:36):
always say, like Jack was an incredible is an incredible gift.
But the gift of his food allergies was that it
got me thinking differently about nutrition, and then well, I
got me thinking differently about nutrition, got me thinking differently
about how frequently we eat, and then that opened up
the whole other side of how I practiced, And certainly
now like lifestyle as medicine is at the forefront of
(09:56):
what I do. But Jack, my oldest, is the reason
why I probably pivoted so substantially. But most of my
colleagues thought it was weird. And now they tell me
when they look back retrospectively, you were way ahead of
the curve, And I said, yes, but you still made
fun of me back then, So hopefully some of that's
worn off on them. Some of them are hopefully talking
to their patients about nutrition. But you're right, we get
(10:19):
little to know information, and most of it is under
the false GUIs of it. Used to be the food
guy pyramid. I'm dating myself, but now it's you know,
my plate, which is even more garbage nonsense that goes on.
So I humbly always say that our kids are our
greatest teachers, and certainly Jack and my other son definitely are.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Who are listening to Prevention over Prescription with Doctor.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
K H Today is v today is a shizuo used
to drivele down nbaight. What's turbing them in a home?
And it's urbans their cheap foot them. Plus if they
would show what cheese that will work with.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Themas Dreamers live at SAGA nine sixty am dot C.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
A welcome back to Prevention over Prescription with Doctor k Wow.
And so we're grateful that you made that pivot, even
though it was under some unfortunate circumstances. So you start
(11:22):
to learn more. And I'll echo this too, just to
recognize that a lot of judging people when it comes
to this, a ton of judging people. I mean, I
still get it now even though we're in twenty twenty
five covering a lot of these topics. But when I
think of cyndia, I think of intermin fasting. I think
(11:45):
of the clinician that uses this tool, leverages this tool
to reverse disease, to get people into healthy lifestyle living again.
And so, yeah, you give us a bit of a
lens on why you were drawn to it, But realistically,
(12:05):
what what who do you think about uh prescribing intermnt
fasting too? What are some of the concerns that you
have and what kind of impact have you seen when
it comes to involving or prescribing uh intermint fasting.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Well, it's such a great question because despite what social
media or you know, the late press would like us
to believe, intermint fasting has been part of our lives
for thousands of years. It is not newer novel. It
dates back to biblical times. It's how we have evolved
as a species because if we could not go without food,
we would have we would have we wouldn't be here.
(12:46):
Let's be completely honest. We are designed to be able
to utilize stored energy as fuel in periods of time
we don't have food, don't have food or access to food.
So when I think about that, the talking about intermint fasting,
it's with the understanding that we're eating less often. A
lot of people have been conditioned to believe and clinicians
have propagated this. We eat to stoke or metabolism, so
(13:10):
we eat snacks and mini meals in between meals. And
I'm here to share with anyone if you haven't already
been taught this that that's one of the reasons why
we are so metabolically unhealthy. Where we are actually designed
to eat, go several hours in between meals, get hungry,
eat again. That is what we are designed to do.
So when I'm thinking about intermitt and fasting, it's defining
(13:31):
what it is. It's eating less often, it's defining, you know,
what period of time that you are not eating versus
the period of time in which you are eating. And
just to simplify things, an easy way to think about
is that we have an eight hour feeding window with
sixteen hours fast and so the bulk of the time
that you were actually fasting, you are sleeping. And I
think people are convinced that they are going to be
(13:52):
miserable when they are not eating, and I remind them,
you know, if you eat dinner at seven o'clock at
night and you don't eat again until ten or eleven,
and I mean the bulk at that time you were
actually asleep, so it isn't quite so overwhelming. But I
think for a lot of metabolically healthy and metabolically unhealthy individuals,
talking to them about eating less often is terrifying. So
(14:14):
if we're going to talk about it from the perspective
of how do we go about doing it? I a
would say twelve hours of digestive breast is a great
way to think about it. You have dinner at seven pm,
you don't eat again until seven am. That is twelve
hours of digestive reast. Is that fasting per se? No,
but you're still conferring benefits. I have all teenagers. All
my teenagers go at least twelve hours without eating, which
(14:34):
is unbelievable, but they do. You have teenage boys, so
you understand. When I think about who is best suited
for urnmentent fasting, I always remind people it's not children,
it's not teenagers. It's people who are done growing. Obviously,
young men can continue to grow into their twenty young
women are usually done growing by the time that they
(14:56):
start having a menstrual cycle. But I typically will say,
when you are an adult, it is certainly something that
you can entertain the possibility of engaging in. I would
actually argue that menopausal women and men have an easier
time with fasting than women who are still in their
peak fertile years, defined is before the age of thirty
five versus women in perimenopause thirty five to fifty ish.
(15:20):
I just find that the menstrual cycle, there's time in
our menstrual cycles to fast, there's times when not to fast.
I do discuss this quite a bit in my book,
The intermitt Fasting Transformation. But when I think about who
does best with intermin fasting, most people do really well
with interminfasting. And I would argue that if you have
high blood pressure, diabetes, fatty liver, you are dealing with
(15:44):
weight loss resistance, you are dealing with sleep apnea, you
are very likely, in conjunction with discussing this with your
licensed healthcare provider, would benefit from some degree of eating
less often. And that might be fourteen hours fast, and
it might be fifteen hours fast. There are some of
you that like to fast two days a week and
the rest of the time you want to have a
wider feeding window. So I think in many many ways
(16:08):
this is where if you are on chronic medication, I
always say have a conversation because when you start intermint fasting,
you may at some point need less blood pressure medicine,
you may need less diabetes medication, you may need an
alteration in your lipid management, you may need to take
some preventative measures. And that's why I always encourage people
to have a conversation with their providers. I have so
(16:30):
many patients that have been pre diabetics who reverse their
pre diabetes. I've had patients who were on multi drug
therapy to treate their high blood pressure, who are coming
off of their anti hypertensives, and so from my perspective,
this is where looping in your healthcare provider is important
so they can keep a close eye on you. Now,
it always begs to have the conversation around who should
(16:52):
not be fasting, Well, it kind of alluded to this
already children, people who are still growing should not be fasting.
I would say I would loop in people who are
trying to conceive, pregnant or breastfeeding. It is not a
time to restrict chloric intake. And actually I remember doctor
Terry Walls and I were having conversation around this, and
she was saying she's absolutely opposed to intermitt and fasting,
(17:15):
especially in pregnancy or in the trying to conceive timeframe.
I would say the other thing is, you know, if
you're someone who's not a healthy weight, if you're underweight,
if your BMI's under like eighteen, your body needs the
additional food intake to be able to stabilize. I think
if you've recently been hospitalized, I always share that. You know,
when twenty nineteen, I spent thirteen days in the hospital,
(17:37):
I didn't fast for a long time because I just
had lost too much weight and I couldn't regulate my
blood shugar, and so that wasn't a good idea. But
in more instances than not, I think most individuals can
benefit from a compressed feeding window and or at least
twelve hours of digestive reast. And I think that for
a lot of individuals, the more metabolically healthy you are,
(17:59):
the easier it will be to go without eating. The
less metabolically healthy you are, the more you are going
to struggle with those symptoms. Many people don't like the
sensation of feeling hunger. They just don't. It makes them uncomfortable.
Emotionally uncomfortable, and for those individuals, I always say, you know,
you put our training wheels on. Maybe we're going from,
(18:19):
you know, twelve hours of not eating to twelve and
a half. And maybe in the you're feeding window, you're
starting off with you know, you're starting off with MCT
oil in your coffee to kind of potentiate and kind
of buffer the effects of what you're experiencing. But I
remind people that the freedom of intermitt and fasting far
(18:40):
outweighs any of the potential unpleasant side effects. Like I
know you and I do quite a bit of business travel,
and I tell people there's nothing better than getting on
a plane and the junk cart goes by and you
don't ever even think about you don't want the junk cart.
You don't want the cookie, you don't want the processed
carbi junk that they're handing out. Maybe I'll have some water, maybe,
(19:03):
you know, occasionally I might, I might have some beef jerky.
But in most instances, I fast while I'm traveling because
to me, it's just an opportunity to kind of upregulate
some of the key benefits of intermittent fasting without having
to worry about junkie seed oils or ultra process foods,
which is what you find in most airports. Unfortunately, there
are a couple standouts in the United States. There are
(19:23):
a couple airports I've been in that I've been humbly
impressed by what they serve, but most are serving crap
and junk. So from my perspective, intermint fasting is something
that we can consider, we can engage in and certainly
discuss with our healthcare practitioners to see if it's right
for us.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I love it. I love it, Cynthia, And just to
give you some context for me, it was I started
to get excited about it when I found that people
were reversing disease with it. As you mentioned, type two
diabetes are hypertension. Like, once again, you were not doing
similar train. You weren't hearing this as a possibility. So
(20:03):
when hearing that using this lifestyle modification tool to improve
outcomes for our patients, it was to me it was
such a huge lever. So one question that has come
up repeatedly online and even people come to me with
(20:25):
this too, is why does it work? Like is there
something magical about fasting? Is it just the caloric restrictions
that make it effective. What's your take on why it works.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah, I mean if it were just about cicco calories
and calories out, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So would you call it sequel?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Yeah, calories and calories Out's what the Jim Bros say,
And so I kind of coined it just to say
cicco because that's overly simplistic and reductionistic. So when we're
talking about the benefits of it or mint fasting, you know,
mental clarity is up there. You know, there's neurocognitive improvement.
Suddenly people because they're booch, sugar is stabilized and they're
(21:08):
able to tap into fat stores as a source of energy.
We back up and talk about there's different forms of
energy in the body. There're stored carbohydrate is glycogen, there's
stored fats, it's fatty acids. Fatty acids are a long
burning it's like a big log on the fire. You know,
if you're using fatty acid, you're going to have a
lot of mental clarity, You're going to have sustained energy
(21:29):
versus like most individuals, at least here in the United
States that are sugar burners, they're burning glycogen. You know,
you're being chased by a saber tooth tiger. You're going
to burn glycogen up front because it's a fast source
of energy, but it is not a sustained source of energy.
It is not going to get you from morning to
night exactly. It's Kinley on the fire, and so helping
(21:50):
people understand that, you know you are going to get
a degree of mental clarity while you're in a fasted
state that you probably didn't even consider would be one
of the best benefits. So number one from top down
neurocognitive improvement, mental clarity, and some of that can also
be from the keytones that are produced. You know, beta
hybriddroxy but rate in particular diffuses across the blood brain barrier.
(22:11):
That's why we feel good. But I think about digestive
rest less bloating, maybe less constipation, less diarrhea. A lot
of middle aged women deal with those symptoms. I think
about improvement in biophysical markers. So if we're eating less often,
we're probably going to get improvement in blood pressure, lipids
and particular triglycerize and HDL, especially if someone is not
(22:31):
metabolically healthy. I think about improvements in inflammation. You know,
we talk about inflammating that inflammation gets turned up, especially
in perimenopause and menopause for women, that can lead to
joint pain, can lead to digestive distress. I also think about,
you know, some of the other benefits. There's one scientific
principle called atophagy, which is upregulation of diseased and disordered organelles.
(22:55):
Now you could make the argument that you have to
fast for a longer period of time to get improved
men in utophagy or mitophogy, which is recycling disease disordered mitochondria,
which are the kind of the battery cells in our cells,
little battery packs, kind of the ATP production. So I
remind people that there are a lot of benefits, but
(23:16):
those are some of the high points. The other thing
that I'll see in a lot of my female patients,
all of a sudden, their menstrual cycles have improved, especially
if they've got polycystic ovarian syndrome, which we know at
the basis of PCOS is inflammation, oxidative stress, and insular resistance.
And so you'll see this multiplicity of improvement. But those
are some of the things that we'll see up front,
But I would say the mental clarity, and then people
(23:39):
come to Innermint fast and because they want to lose weight,
and they stay for all the other benefits. They just
come to it because they're like, Okay, I'm weight loss resistant.
I want to lose weight. And then all of a
sudden they're like, I have more energy, I'm sleeping better.
I have more energy to interact with my kids, my dogs,
my significant other. My sleep is better. So I think
of it as a very well rounded opportunity to improve
(24:02):
and optimize. And that's what we're talking about, optimization as
opposed to kind of the mindset that I certainly experienced
ten years ago, was you're in your forties, this is
just the way things are. Suck it up, accept this
and that. And I'm here to tell you that and
your listeners that it doesn't have to be that way.
Internment fasting can be something that you utilize a few
(24:25):
days a month, a few days a week, could be
that you're doing it five days a week. I think
it's ultimately that flexibility piece for renderment fasting is really important.
But as I always say, people come tournamit fasting out
of the curiosity to lose weight. They stay for all
the other benefits.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
We're listening to Prevention over Prescription with Doctor K.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
No Radio, No Problem stream is live on Sugay ninety
sixty AM dot CA.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Welcome back to Prevention over Prescription with Doctor K. So
two things. One, when it comes to my line of work,
my patients don't speak, so they are it's when people
just coming to me with seeking wellness advice or lifestyle
modifications that improve their usually because they're overweight, or sometimes
(25:29):
even the perimental pausal women looking for some support. And
I say, it's harder to Number one, it's harder to
get those calories when you have a smaller window. So, like,
I think there's an aspect there, but I also think
this is my theory and I have nothing to prove it,
or I'm not haven't read anything to prove this theory.
(25:50):
I think when you have spikes in your insulin when
you're more poor inflammatory, it would be like taking that
calories in and calories out, equation and amplifying components. So
if you are if you're eating something that is more
insologenic made up that word. If something is going to
be more pro inflammatory, if it was a hander calories.
(26:12):
Now it's going to be one hundred and fifty calories
to your body as and vice versa. Like if something
was on the books that's been one hundred calories, but
you've been fasting and you had a bunch of protein
with it, then you get less of an insolent spike.
So you're getting less perceived calories in terms of your
in terms of how your body responds. That's the way
(26:34):
I've always kind of looked at it because I agree
like I've seen too many people on the keto side.
I've seen too many people that have focused, Like you know,
they're having the same amount of calories, are more, yet
they're still losing weights, their body comp is still improving.
So I'm a believer that it's not as simple as
(26:55):
you mentioned. It's there's more to that story. But I
always like pushing people like us because it's not like
I don't know if there's a RCT or I don't know,
like like even bench model study to kind of prove
(27:17):
what we're saying.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
That's yeah, well, I think you're right that you know,
the average American eats anywhere from eat to ten times
a day, and each time you're eating. If you're eating
what most Americans are eating, you're eating a lot of
processed carbohydrates. And if we just even look at macros,
the impact on blood sugar dysregulation is highest with carbohydrates.
(27:41):
And then you know protein, but protein tends to buffer it.
And then fat has almost a negligible impact on insulin.
So it goes back to this nutrition piece. The choices
that we are making still have an impact on our
blood sugar. But if you were just eating a bowl
of rice, a bowl of pasta, a pop tart, I
can that's going to have a very different effect on
(28:02):
your blood bluecose, insulin, cortisol as opposed to having a
steak with broccoli. And so I have kids that lift
very heavy, and so they know exactly the levers they
need to pull around lifting. But they're very metabolically healthy
and athletic, and so I sometimes am humored when they make,
you know, two cups of rice with their chicken, and
(28:23):
I'm like, that's great that you can eat that. I
probably wouldn't fare so well if I did. However, with
that being said, just helping people understand that the choices
we choose to make when we eat can have a
really profound net impact on our metabolic health. And this
is where when I talk to women in particular about fasting,
helping them understand your feeding window needs to be wide
(28:44):
enough to consume one hundred grams of protein a day,
and if you can't, then we need to work on that.
And this is why, you know, we talk about how
as we get older that impetus for muscle protein synthesis.
I would say my kids can sneeze with ten grams
of protein and I need thirty to fifty. We know,
based on the research that we need more stimulus to
(29:06):
grow our muscles as we get older. That's why we
have to lift heavier weights. That's why we have to
eat more protein. Otherwise we're succumbing to sarcapedia. So it
goes back to that conversation about, yes, we want to
eat less frequently so we keep insulin and blow gluco stable,
but we also want to make sure when we are
eating that we're eating the right combinations of foods. And
(29:28):
you know, it's interesting, I just submitted my book manuscript
about the gut microbiome and the changes that occur in
middle aged women, and you know, I was looking at
like why the ketogenic diet doesn't work for some women,
and a lot of it has to do with the
composition of the gut microbiome, and so be touched on keto,
and I know keto for some people is incredibly powerful.
(29:48):
And then I have other patients that do keto and
they gain ten pounds on keto and they're like, wait
a minute, this wasn't supposed to happen. But if you
actually look at the research, the gut microbiome has a
tremendous amount to do with how much calories are extracted
and how your body processes things. And so sometimes a
higher fat, lower protein diet may not be the right
diet for you. And that's why, you know, working with
(30:10):
clinicians that have knowledge of nutrition and neal frequency is
so important.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, there's so much here I want to hit on
because I think I alluded this, alluded, this tear when
we first met. The gut bic or biome is an
absolute mystery to me. But I'm going to leave this
fairly open and let you go where you want to
go with it. But when it comes to the middle
aged woman, you touch on some strong points and I've
(30:37):
learned just through conversations, not through clinical experience, that there
is nuance there like I you know, I saw even
in fact, I don't know if you found this, I
bought some even women struggle with fasting in general, like
you know, in terms of and my theory was that
maybe I should leave this for you. But you know,
(30:58):
trying to extend those fat too long and so they're
getting a more of a cortisol stress response, so they're
retaining fluid, retaining their weight. So I'm curious one like
nuances when it comes to a perimenopausal middle aged women
because they're large part of the audience that are listening
(31:19):
now to the levers that you want to touch on,
like you mentioned protein, mentioned weight training, and three if
the gut microbiome is a large part of what we're
having to manipulate or adjust or it's just something that
we should be keeping in the back of our minds.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yeah, all such important questions. I would say that, you know,
one of the things I see with frequency is women
in their twenties and thirties, they have a certain way
that they can dial in on calories and they can
dial in on exercise, and they effortlessly lose weight well
that changes as you get older. And so I think
for a lot of women, the mindset is if a
little bit of fasting is good, more is better. A
(32:00):
little bit of exercise is good, more is better. If
a little bit of cloric restriction is good, more is better.
And I call it the triad. And these are women
who are so their bodies are so stressed. We know,
we become less stress resilient as we are navigating early
perimenopause with that loss of progesterone signaling from the ovaries,
and so a lot of these women are just it's
(32:21):
too much stress on the body. You know, we use
a term hormesis, but too much hormontic stress. And so
in some instances, these women would be better off doing
twel hours of digestive rest, dialing back on the intensity
of exercise, eating more food, which seems completely counterintuitive when
they're trying to lose weight. So, you know, Number one
is like having an honest discussion with yourself. Are you
(32:44):
over taxing your body? And I can tell you when
I was probably forty two forty three, I was still
doing very intense CrossFit like classes and my gym and
I was doing spin and I was just doing a
lot of intense exercise and I just hit a wall.
I completely hit a wall, and I went through an
entire year. Well, all I did was walk. I'm not
(33:04):
kidding an entire year because my adrenals were so thrashed.
I don't like the term adrenal fatigue because I don't
think that's a real term. But we can speak to
the fact that we know that women become less stress resiling,
and part of that are some of the hormonal changes
that are occurring. But we have to do the right
kind of exercise, the right kind of nutrition, the right
(33:26):
kind of intermittent fasting around our cycle, and only if
we're in a position where we can successfully fast. I
agree with you that a lot of times what I
see is women really wanting to push the fasting. Maybe
they've dialed in on the exercise and the stress and
the macros, but they're still fasting two three days every week.
I'm like, what are you doing. Like, there's a very
(33:47):
well known bio hacker who's in his twenties, super nice guy,
really smart, and he does like too long fasts every month,
and I was trying to explain to my husband. He's
like twenty five, it's different. He can get away with
that then. But what I get is women in their forties,
fifties and sixties that want to fast all the time, relentlessly,
(34:07):
and so it's helping them understand like are you honoring
your body and really having a frank discussion with yourself?
And I think you know the other piece of that is,
you know, the macro's piece is so important. It's like,
can you get your macros in in your feeding window?
And if the answer is no, then you need to
widen your feeding window or not fast at all. I
do a lot less fasting at this stage of life
(34:28):
than I did five ten years ago, and that is
because I'm trying to build muscle and it's a lot
harder at the stage of life. It's not impossible, but
you have to be very diligent. And I would say
the other thing is when we're looking at the gut microbiome. Yes,
we know there are benefits from eating less often on
the gut, but again it's all about that hormetic stress.
Is it the right amount of stress at the right time.
(34:49):
It's not when you're going through a divorce, you've lost
your job, you're going through a big move, you're not sleeping,
you're super stressed out, you can't even get through a
workout because you're so tired. You know, you're irritated, you're irritable.
Maybe your hormones are taking a nose dive. And we
all know that our hormones govern everything that we do
in our bodies, and so I really think it speaks
(35:11):
to every woman's experience and perimenopause and menopause is as
unique as they are. So what works for me may
not work for you. Not you, but I'm saying you
like proverbiably you or any other person. And it's really
doing a little bit of the experimentation of the end
of one So for each one of us figuring out,
like what makes our bodies feel good and being honest
(35:32):
about it, what makes our bodies feel terrible, and avoiding
those things or saying no to those things. And I
think that has been my experience over the last ten years.
You know, working with patients is really seeing like encouraging
women to tap into their own intrinsic wisdom of their
bodies and determining what feels good. And a lot of
(35:53):
people don't like having a thing for themselves. They've been
conditioned to believe that we listen to these influencers online
or we follow one ideology and we aren't willing to evolve.
And I tell everyone just be open to the possibility
that what you did two years ago might not be
what works now, and that's okay, and so just throughout
the rest of our lives, we may course correct to
(36:16):
find what works for us. And so I share openly.
I lost my dad last year, and I promised myself
that I would not succumb to sarcopenia and frailty, which
is what contributed to my father's death. And one of
the things that made sure I was in alignment with
that was that I needed to widen my feeding window.
So doesn't mean that I never fast know, but I
(36:38):
day to day, I'm very conscientious about three boluses of protein,
enough protein every day, lifting heavy weights and being consistent
about it, and helping women understand that you know, you
don't have to do the same thing forever. You can
course correct and that applies to men as well, like
figuring out what works for you. What works today may
not work tomorrow, and that is okay.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
We're listening to Prevention over scripture with doctor.
Speaker 5 (37:01):
K you live where the street is in the basement,
partner with one of your friends and the tapships all
night water Torture in.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Stream us live at SAGA ninety sixty am dot C A.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Welcome back to Prevention over Prescription with Doctor K once again,
just wanted to express how sorry I was to hear
about your dad. I know it was around you didn't morning.
I think it was before your didn't MOONI by February
twenty twenty, Oh my god, time is flying or November,
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
It all runs together.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
It all runs together. And just wanted to express the
admiration too, of pivoting and wanting to be strong, and
as you mentioned, I know you do to work in
the cardiac units, since like that's what we're trying to avoid,
is like that frailthy element. It's it's it's as I
think I mentioned this on your podcast, how it's actually
(38:13):
hard to die. It's it's the machines work, It's it's
about that quality of life. It's like, how are you
going to function afterwards? So I commend you for not
being dogmatic. It's one of the things I look for
and leaders and people that I admire is that ability
to to pivot when appropriate as knowledge that you acquire
(38:36):
knowledge as you go through experience. What are you going
to do to change and improve your situation? But I
am curious because I've been going against my own advice.
I've been pretty dogmatic about fast and like, I like, uh,
it's some of you could tell I went to the dentist.
So I'm only speaking for one side. So I was
(38:58):
trying to power down a shake before or I'm on
Eastern time, so it's you know, I've only had a
shake today. It's two forty five over here was my question.
My question was, yeah, so I've been for the last
six years. I don't eat breakfast occasionally depending on that.
That what the scenario is. So what have you How's
(39:22):
your window changed? Because you mentioned like you've expanded your window,
So I'm really curious to hear how that is pivoted.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Yeah, I know, it's it's interesting. My dad passed in June,
and without overburdening your community, my dad's frailty contributed to
his death. And it was actually really incredibly sad because
we lost my stepmother last year as well. But you know,
they're in a better place and they're probably you know, thriving,
(39:54):
thriving now. But I think for me that was such
a powerful experience to go through. I think when you
lose a parent, and to lose it in a way
where my brother and I had to make some very
difficult decisions, honor what my father wanted and make some
very difficult decisions in the neurow I see you and
the trauma surgeon, and you know, it left enough of
an impression on me that I walked away saying, what
(40:16):
am I going to do differently? Because I am my
father's daughter. We are both kind of English, smaller body
habitist people. My dad was not a big person, and
I was like, I could be just like my father
and be his age and falling and hit my head.
And so I was like, right away, the thing I
need to do is really get serious about storm training,
and I really need to be serious about my protein intake.
(40:40):
And so from that point forward, I hired the most
amazing personal trainer who is wonderful and she is not
a fan of internet fasting, and so we have these
very vivid conversations, and she wasn't the reason why I
stopped fasting regularly. It was with the understanding that I
can't get enough protein in, and it was like a consistence.
(41:00):
The issue. It's different when I'm traveling. I do anticipate
it's going to be harder for me to get protein in.
But the day to day, and I'm privileged that I
have the ability to work from home, so I mean
I can stop and eat. And so I said, if
I want to be serious about a strong body as
I get older, to avoid tarcipedia, I have to get serious.
And so that meant a twelve hour feeding window. So
(41:23):
in most instances, I'm breaking my fast fairly early, usually
with thirty to forty grams of protein. And the other
things that I've changed is that I eat before I exercise.
I went many, many years of not fueling my workouts
and what I've come to find and so on Mondays,
I train with my trainer at four o'clock. By the
time I see her, I've had two meals, and I
(41:45):
told her we have another day where we work out
at nine and nine o'clock in the morning. I can't
push as hard as I can in the afternoon. And
I think a lot of it has to do with
the fact that I haven't had two meals. Two good
sized protein boluses and I'm working out with a lot
of fuel on board, and so for me personally, it
has been my end of one experiment that building muscle
(42:06):
and changing body composition. Although I'm not a big person,
you know, when you look at those bioimpedance ratings that
are showing your fat free masks versus your muscle mass,
those don't lie. And so I was like, Okay, I
want to put on muscle. I want to pound five
pounds of muscle, which takes a lot of effort at
this stage of life. I'm on bioidentical hormone replacement therapy,
(42:27):
I'm lifting heavy, I'm eating enough protein, and it's slowly happening,
but it takes a lot of effort. And to your point,
especially as someone who has a platform that's known about
internet and fasting, I was initially very nervous to share
with my community, and I did very transparently this summer,
and I got more positive feedback from people saying I
(42:47):
respect you more because you're willing to change your mind
than being in an echo chamber. Because I had people saying,
you're going to make a mistake. People are going to
stop following you, They're not going to believe in you,
and it's been completely the opposite. I I think people
respect me more for being transparent and encouraging them to say, hey,
if this doesn't work for you anymore, that's okay. And
(43:08):
so I humbly share that experience because I think that
we as clinicians need to set the standard for our
patients and our clients to say it's okay if something
no longer serves you, or maybe it serves you, but
you just do it episodically. So it doesn't mean that
I never fast, but most days I'm eating in a
wider feeding whendow. In fact, my kids think it's funny.
(43:29):
They're like, mommy eats breakfast now, Yes I do. It's
not a big meal, but it's protein and usually some
carbohydrate because my body likes the carbs, healthy carbs. I
ate more carbohydrates now than I ever did in a
long time. I was a long term low carb paleo
carb cycling, and now I'm like days I lift. I
ate more carbohydrates. It could be potato, it could be fruit,
(43:51):
it could be a little bit of both, you know,
root vegetables. And so I encourage people that are listening
to not be rigidly dogmatic, because if we let our
pride get in the way of doing what's ultimately best
for us, that doesn't serve us. And that's not how
you lead.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
You know what you're you're describing being an unapologetic leader.
That's what you're describing. Because I know, I know this
must have been hard for you.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
It's very hard.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Like even just seeing you bust that bust this out
right now, I can see that it's it's it's a challenge.
And I'll say this too, like I've had people approach me.
I'm close with the personal trainer and dietitian crossfitter name
is deb Sloan. She told me this early on, and
(44:43):
I told her, you know, I'm not saying you're wrong.
I just said, like, I love working out fasted. I
got good results fasted, And and the more I thought
about it, is like I have no problem getting my
protein goals into two meals, Like no problem I could
get anyway, like I'm two or five getting one hundred
and fifty grands of protein. I could do that in
(45:05):
one meal. To be honest with you, So like, I
you know, not everyone can do that though, right, So
I really like the idea of personalizing it. Ultimately, we
say to every to our clients and to our listeners,
it's what's your goal, right, and so when you when it,
(45:27):
when it goes down to that, I don't care how
you get to your goal because usually it's a health
cool obviously, and I want to teach you or guide
you on how you can achieve that. And that's exactly
what you're doing. Because there's some people, like you said,
they're still going to benefit from frequent fasting. But you know,
it just depends on what your goal is and what
(45:48):
stage your life you're in. And I've been thinking about
this too, cent to be honest with you, like I was.
You know, we both got supplement companies. I'm thinking about
throwing the shake in pre meal and seeing how it goes.
Like I don't I don't feel hired during my workouts.
I feel like I could still like my workouts are
still on point when I work out in the mornings,
but maybe I could be pushing more. And to be
(46:10):
honest with you, I wouldn't love to put on an
extra couple pounds of lead muscle mass because I know,
like you get that body armor now because it's going
to be harder to do that, you know, as we age.
So yeah, I think there's a lot of truth to
what you're saying, and once again just admiring your courage
and your willingness to hibot.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
Thank you. No, I mean, what's ironic is I think
I was talking to Stacy Simms after Stacy Simms and
we weren't even recording at that point, and I said,
I just wanted to let you know because I know
she's not a fan of internet fasting, and I said,
I wanted to give you like the end of one experiment,
and I told her the whole story, and she's like,
I'm so proud of you, Like it gives me chills
(46:53):
because I have so much respect for her. And she said,
you know, what you're choosing to do right now has
so much long term impact on the trajectory of your
frailty index. Like we talk about it isn't just a
muscle loss. It's that you then become frail. And then
when you become frail, you're more likely to fall, whether
(47:14):
you break a hip, whether you hit your head, which
is what happened with my dad. And I just keep saying,
like I'm thinking about that strong lady body like even
my husband. My husband lifts pretty regularly, and I'm like,
both of us we do not want to be you know,
we've got like teenage boys. You know, eventually they're gonna
get married and have kids. I'm like, I want to
be on the floor with my grandkids. I want to
be able to run around with them. I want to
(47:35):
be active, and I want to be neurocognitively intact, like
I don't want to be a burden to my family.
And so the choices we're making now have long term impact.
It's hard to see that. Like you and I know
what happens when people get frail, but I think the
average person, unless they've been directly impacted by a loved
one falling, breaking a hip, hitting their head and getting
(47:57):
a head bleed in my circumstances, you've seen that impact.
It's very hard to understand why muscle is so important.
Is of course, it's a body composition thing. I mean,
that's that's not the reason why we do it, but
I mean it feels good when you've got a muscle
suit on, but it's more about loc emotion stability. Like
my trainer. Actually, it's funny, she gets me on and
(48:19):
off the floor constantly, because she's all about functional fitness.
And she said, if you go to a stand up gym,
sometimes all the trainers do is they just have you
walking from one machine to another. But I am on
and off the floor constantly, you know, doing dead hangs,
which if anyone's listening, the first time I tried to
do that, I was shocked. I was like, oh, I'm strong,
(48:41):
We're slowly working up to two minutes. But the first
time I did it, it was like fifteen seconds, and I
was like.
Speaker 5 (48:46):
What was that.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
I think, yeah, that's my goal, that's our goal. That's
our goal. But I can tell you the first time
I did it, I was fifteen seconds and I was like,
oh my god, this is so hard. But like helping
us all understand that we want these abled body bodies
to be able to remain strong, not just skinny, Like
there was so much focus on women in particular just
(49:10):
being skinny, and I'm like, skinny does not get you
that strong body, and so thinking differently about how we
want to age, and I know for both of us,
i'd be incouraged. You you have to send me a
message and let me know if you eat before your
workout if it's any different. But I can tell you
Mondays are my really hard workout, and my trainer knows this,
so she I walk in there knowing I'm going to
(49:32):
get my butt kicked, but I'm like, it's nots of
bad because I've got two meals on board, so I've
got lots of fuel to work through.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Wow. Yeah, I struggle with I always find I'm a
little bit lacklustered in the afternoon work. I was relative
to the interesting. Yeah, so I always alluded to that
because I have food in my stomacher and I try
not to have to have your cargo in me for
my first meal. But you know, a lot of variables there.
(50:01):
But I'm going to try. I'm going to try next
time I do a hard work and I'm going to
try to shake before and I'll report back.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
And yeah, definitely let me know. I'd love to hear.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
So, Cynthia, this has been as usual. I feel like
we're so aligned. I feel like we were if we
were in the same city, we'd be doing more hangouts.
Like you're just a genuine, wonderful person that's like impacting
so many lives and this is what the magic is
of what you do because that message of how to
(50:34):
get healthy. Yes, you're an MP that was seeing people
on the one on one, but your messages through your podcast,
through your books, to your social media content has been
impacting lives now for multiple years. So I just want
to first of all, just celebrate you and how do
people eat more of Cynthia the.
Speaker 3 (50:57):
Well Thank you. It's always an honor to connect with you,
and hopefully we'll both be invited back to you Pneumonia
for twenty twenty five because it would be great to
hang out with you and your lovely wife again. The
easiest way to connect with me is on my website,
so it's www dot Cynthia Thurlow dot com. Obviously, doctor
K has been a guest on Everyday Wellness, which is
my favorite thing I do in my business, along with
(51:18):
speaking speaking at events. Those are my top things that
I love to do. But we have programs. We have
a supplement line that's totally dedicated to middle aged women
call the Midlife Pause. That is the working title of
the second book, although my editor's already told me she
wants to adjust it, and I'm humbly open to the
possibility of changing it. Like I say about everything, everything
(51:39):
is flexible because I think that's so important. But if
you listen to the podcast and you end up checking
things out, make sure you send me a DM. I'm
most active on Instagram. I'm a little snarky on Twitter,
so before warned. Although lately I've been less vested in
getting into discussions on Twitter that are anything less than
just straightforward.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
Let me tell you a hell there, I guess I
lose my mind with that step. Cynthia, thank you so
much for joining us and I can't wait to see
you again.
Speaker 3 (52:07):
Sounds good.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
If you enjoyed that, please leave us any comments at
quodcast ninet nine at jmail dot com. Leave a five
star rating. Follow us on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter
at quodcast, Jump on our newsletter, jump on our community,
check out guid a nutrition. We've got put in podcasts
fifteen for your fifteen percent off, the bundles and the supplements,
(52:32):
all these things that we're promoting, all these things that
we're getting behind is on that preventative side, on that
proactive side, so that you show up as your best self,
show up guide a strong baby. Here we go. Let's
do this all right, people. I hope you're feeling a
little bit more jumping your step after that episode. Thanks
for listening, talk real so peace.
Speaker 4 (52:55):
Yeah, it's like, if you want to ride with me,
you don't even know what is books.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
If you want to get you want to get thirty,
you want to go left right. This is what we
don't want us to knock ups.
Speaker 3 (53:04):
That's just rock US
Speaker 1 (53:05):
Forty one, no radio, no problem, stream us live on
SAGA nine sixty am dot c a
The views expressed in the following program are those of
the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of
SAGA nine sixty am or its management.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Plcastination. I'm super excited to share something I've been working
on that is close to my heart, Guyada Nutrition. As
many of you know, my mission is to keep people
healthy and out of the ICU. GOT nutrition is a
big part of that goal. Our supplements are health Candida
approved and made only with the highest quality ingredients. Whether
(00:39):
you're looking for protein powder to fuel your workouts, collagen
to support your joints, magnesium to boost recovery and sleep,
god in Nutricia has you covered. This just isn't about
selling products. It's about building a community of people who
are committed to their health. I want you all to
be Guyadas strong, strong in body, strong in mind, and
ready to tackle whatever life flows your way. Now for
(01:02):
my quodcast, Nation got a special offer. You can get
fifteen percent off of your order by going to guy
Added Nutrition dot com. That's gya Ta Nutrition dot com
and use that promo code Quodcast fifteen at checkout and
say fifteen percent. So if you're ready to take that
next step in your health journey, fuel your body with
high quality science back supplements. Head over to Guida nutrition
(01:26):
dot com and grab what you need. Thanks for all
the support and let's continue to show up as your
best self. Stay gad as strong everyone. Next, I want
to tell you about Elements. That's lmn T for real.
The key to proper hydration isn't just water, it's water
plus electrolytes. This balance is vital to avoid issues like
muscle cramps energy dips often caused by dilution of electrolyte levels.
(01:51):
So enter Element, an electrolyte drink mix that's tasty, convenient,
and free from sugar and artificial additives. Element provides optimal
ratios of sodium, potassium, and magnesium, ensuring not only health
and performance benefits, but also a delightful tasty experience like
orange salt, citrus salt, and then new and delicious watermelon
(02:13):
salt my favorite. And for those that sign up, you
get a free sample and to celebrate our partnership right now,
we're offering a free sample pack on your first order.
You simply have to go to drink Element dot com
Backslashquadcast that's drink Element dot com backslash kwa dcast quoteas Nation.
(02:36):
I gotta say I say this often, but this truly
is a special episode because Cynthia and I I've really
felt we bonded at you Da Ammonia. I got to
go on her show, did a live inview, and she
left me just touched by everything that she's doing, how
(02:58):
she's changing live and hearing about her own personal clinical story,
and then how she developed the skills to reach out
to so many of y'all really was inspirational. So Cynthia,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So good to be here. And like you said, I
do feel like we had this incredible connection. I got
an opportunity to meet your beautiful wife and just really
be able to record in person, which I think for
so many of us. Most of us are recording kind
of distantly, but there's just some kind of unique energy
when you can record in person with another guest. So
(03:36):
very grateful to be here.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
That is so true. I thought there was a bit
of magic, but and I haven't had an experience since that,
so it's really really hit home there. So let's start
off with how we got here. Cynthia, you're a nurse
practitioner and you now have this amazing platform to promote
(03:59):
healthy living. How did it start for you?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Well, I always say I start as I am a
reformed adrenaline junkie. So I was an ear nurse back
in inner city Baltimore and transition kind of effortlessly into
becoming a nurse practitioner in cardiology. And so I did
that for over sixteen years as an MP, and then
I just got tired of writing prescriptions. I was so
(04:24):
fatigued from addressing a lot of chronic health issues here
in the US from the perspective of waiting till we
get disease. And then I have patients that are on
twenty thirty medications. You start them on a diuretic that
gives them low potassium. Then you put them on low potassium.
The next thing you know, they've got gout or's my
patients used to call it gouch. And I just started
(04:45):
to become more interested in lifestyle measures. I became more passionate,
obviously about internet fasting, and so it's hard to believe.
Almost nine years ago August sorry April first, twenty sixteen
is when I left traditional allopath medicine to really kind
of start my own practice and really focusing and niching
in from that whole adrenaline junkie fueled environment to really
(05:09):
focusing in on women north of thirty five, so women
that are in perimenopause and menopause, because nine years ago
there was even less discussion than where there is now,
and I felt that women needed a voice and they
needed good information instead of fear mongering and telling women, oh,
you put on fifteen twenty pounds, just accept it. This
is just the way things are. And I heard that
(05:30):
from a doctor, by the way, and I love my
physician friends, so I'm just kind of being transparent and
saying I heard all the things that women share with
me now, so I get how frustrating that can be.
And so now the rest of my lifetime is really
devoted to helping women in this unique stage of life
and reminding people that the really cool thing about our
(05:50):
medical training is that it translates into so many other
things that you can do that still utilize your training,
but utilize it and amplification of your messaging. And especially
I know both of us really narrow, like Niche down
on talking about the role of lifestyle and why that's
so important. And I think if more people understood the
(06:11):
importance of sleep and stress management, and the proper human
diet is ken Barry likes to call it, but I
like to call it nutrient and dense whole foods diet
and really moving our bodies every day. I mean, a
lot of those lifestyle things would solve a lot of
the problems that we're seeing. And so kind of getting
back to basics is a lot of what I focus
(06:32):
on now. And to be honest, it's incredibly gratifying and
I feel very grateful and appreciative. Then I'm able to
do it.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
So, Cynthia, how did you come to the realization that
lifestyle modifications, these changes will be effective, Because, let's be honest,
we don't talk about it in medical school. I'd imagine
in p school this is not a flavor. So how
did you come to the realization that this is a possibility.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Well, I think, you know, life kind of imitates art,
and I have a child who has life threatening food allergies.
Only thirty percent of kids will outwear their food allergies,
and unfortunately Jack is not. And when he was diagnosed
as a toddler he was two at the time, the
allergist looked at my husband and I and said carry
an EpiPen and prey. I mean, honest to God, that's
(07:22):
what I was told. And I was terrified. And so
that got me started really thinking differently about nutrition and
wanting to learn as much as possible. And so I
was kind of an early adopter to really making all
the food. I didn't feel like it was safe to
take him to restaurants. This wasn't you know, almost twenty
years ago. They just didn't have the access to nut free,
(07:45):
peanut free, and he has peanut and try nut allergies.
Just feeling like if I took him to a restaurant,
I wasn't sure if there wasn't cross contamination. And the
thought of giving my young child and EpiPen was terrifying,
even though I've seen plenty of anaphylaxis, like the worst
case scenario that happens when you've come in contact with
something that you're allergic to. So I think that initially
(08:05):
got me interested in nutrition, And in fact, my colleagues
lovingly would tease me. They're like, this is the NP
that likes to talk about food, and so they would
refer patients to me, I want you to do an
nutrition consult I want you to talk to patients. And
I would say, of the people that referred to me,
maybe half of them were open to talking about nutrition.
So the ones that were really validated for me that
(08:28):
there was a need for this. And then that kind
of branched out into how often we eat, how frequently
we eat, so it got me interested intermint fasting, and
then it branched out into other things. Dare I say
talking to patients about things as simple as do you
sleep enough? How are you managing your stress? I lived
in a very hustle bustle part of the United States.
I lived in Washington, d C. My patients had horrific commutes.
(08:51):
The cost of living is very high. Around two thousand
and eight timeframe. That was the first of you know,
the kind of you know, housing market ashes, and I
had patients that were telling me just terrific stories trying
to manage paying their mortgage and not losing their homes.
And so for me, it just became kind of a
natural extension based on what I had gone through as
a parent with a child with life threatening food allergies
(09:14):
that he has never outgrown, to you know, shifting this focus.
And one of the things that I would say to
anyone listening, is that I trust my gut. I know
that that's you know, some people might say, well, that
isn't per se away to lead your lifestyle, But I've
come to find that life will sometimes give me little
opportunities to change my perspective on things, and so I
(09:36):
always say, like Jack was an incredible is an incredible gift.
But the gift of his food allergies was that it
got me thinking differently about nutrition, and then well, I
got me thinking differently about nutrition, got me thinking differently
about how frequently we eat, and then that opened up
the whole other side of how I practiced, And certainly
now like lifestyle as medicine is at the forefront of
(09:56):
what I do. But Jack, my oldest, is the reason
why I probably pivoted so substantially. But most of my
colleagues thought it was weird. And now they tell me
when they look back retrospectively, you were way ahead of
the curve, And I said, yes, but you still made
fun of me back then, So hopefully some of that's
worn off on them. Some of them are hopefully talking
to their patients about nutrition. But you're right, we get
(10:19):
little to know information, and most of it is under
the false GUIs of it. Used to be the food
guy pyramid. I'm dating myself, but now it's you know,
my plate, which is even more garbage nonsense that goes on.
So I humbly always say that our kids are our
greatest teachers, and certainly Jack and my other son definitely are.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Who are listening to Prevention over Prescription with Doctor.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
K H Today is v today is a shizuo used
to drivele down nbaight. What's turbing them in a home?
And it's urbans their cheap foot them. Plus if they
would show what cheese that will work with.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Themas Dreamers live at SAGA nine sixty am dot C.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
A welcome back to Prevention over Prescription with Doctor k Wow.
And so we're grateful that you made that pivot, even
though it was under some unfortunate circumstances. So you start
(11:22):
to learn more. And I'll echo this too, just to
recognize that a lot of judging people when it comes
to this, a ton of judging people. I mean, I
still get it now even though we're in twenty twenty
five covering a lot of these topics. But when I
think of cyndia, I think of intermin fasting. I think
(11:45):
of the clinician that uses this tool, leverages this tool
to reverse disease, to get people into healthy lifestyle living again.
And so, yeah, you give us a bit of a
lens on why you were drawn to it, But realistically,
(12:05):
what what who do you think about uh prescribing intermnt
fasting too? What are some of the concerns that you
have and what kind of impact have you seen when
it comes to involving or prescribing uh intermint fasting.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Well, it's such a great question because despite what social
media or you know, the late press would like us
to believe, intermint fasting has been part of our lives
for thousands of years. It is not newer novel. It
dates back to biblical times. It's how we have evolved
as a species because if we could not go without food,
we would have we would have we wouldn't be here.
(12:46):
Let's be completely honest. We are designed to be able
to utilize stored energy as fuel in periods of time
we don't have food, don't have food or access to food.
So when I think about that, the talking about intermint fasting,
it's with the understanding that we're eating less often. A
lot of people have been conditioned to believe and clinicians
have propagated this. We eat to stoke or metabolism, so
(13:10):
we eat snacks and mini meals in between meals. And
I'm here to share with anyone if you haven't already
been taught this that that's one of the reasons why
we are so metabolically unhealthy. Where we are actually designed
to eat, go several hours in between meals, get hungry,
eat again. That is what we are designed to do.
So when I'm thinking about intermitt and fasting, it's defining
(13:31):
what it is. It's eating less often, it's defining, you know,
what period of time that you are not eating versus
the period of time in which you are eating. And
just to simplify things, an easy way to think about
is that we have an eight hour feeding window with
sixteen hours fast and so the bulk of the time
that you were actually fasting, you are sleeping. And I
think people are convinced that they are going to be
(13:52):
miserable when they are not eating, and I remind them,
you know, if you eat dinner at seven o'clock at
night and you don't eat again until ten or eleven,
and I mean the bulk at that time you were
actually asleep, so it isn't quite so overwhelming. But I
think for a lot of metabolically healthy and metabolically unhealthy individuals,
talking to them about eating less often is terrifying. So
(14:14):
if we're going to talk about it from the perspective
of how do we go about doing it? I a
would say twelve hours of digestive breast is a great
way to think about it. You have dinner at seven pm,
you don't eat again until seven am. That is twelve
hours of digestive reast. Is that fasting per se? No,
but you're still conferring benefits. I have all teenagers. All
my teenagers go at least twelve hours without eating, which
(14:34):
is unbelievable, but they do. You have teenage boys, so
you understand. When I think about who is best suited
for urnmentent fasting, I always remind people it's not children,
it's not teenagers. It's people who are done growing. Obviously,
young men can continue to grow into their twenty young
women are usually done growing by the time that they
(14:56):
start having a menstrual cycle. But I typically will say,
when you are an adult, it is certainly something that
you can entertain the possibility of engaging in. I would
actually argue that menopausal women and men have an easier
time with fasting than women who are still in their
peak fertile years, defined is before the age of thirty
five versus women in perimenopause thirty five to fifty ish.
(15:20):
I just find that the menstrual cycle, there's time in
our menstrual cycles to fast, there's times when not to fast.
I do discuss this quite a bit in my book,
The intermitt Fasting Transformation. But when I think about who
does best with intermin fasting, most people do really well
with interminfasting. And I would argue that if you have
high blood pressure, diabetes, fatty liver, you are dealing with
(15:44):
weight loss resistance, you are dealing with sleep apnea, you
are very likely, in conjunction with discussing this with your
licensed healthcare provider, would benefit from some degree of eating
less often. And that might be fourteen hours fast, and
it might be fifteen hours fast. There are some of
you that like to fast two days a week and
the rest of the time you want to have a
wider feeding window. So I think in many many ways
(16:08):
this is where if you are on chronic medication, I
always say have a conversation because when you start intermint fasting,
you may at some point need less blood pressure medicine,
you may need less diabetes medication, you may need an
alteration in your lipid management, you may need to take
some preventative measures. And that's why I always encourage people
to have a conversation with their providers. I have so
(16:30):
many patients that have been pre diabetics who reverse their
pre diabetes. I've had patients who were on multi drug
therapy to treate their high blood pressure, who are coming
off of their anti hypertensives, and so from my perspective,
this is where looping in your healthcare provider is important
so they can keep a close eye on you. Now,
it always begs to have the conversation around who should
(16:52):
not be fasting, Well, it kind of alluded to this
already children, people who are still growing should not be fasting.
I would say I would loop in people who are
trying to conceive, pregnant or breastfeeding. It is not a
time to restrict chloric intake. And actually I remember doctor
Terry Walls and I were having conversation around this, and
she was saying she's absolutely opposed to intermitt and fasting,
(17:15):
especially in pregnancy or in the trying to conceive timeframe.
I would say the other thing is, you know, if
you're someone who's not a healthy weight, if you're underweight,
if your BMI's under like eighteen, your body needs the
additional food intake to be able to stabilize. I think
if you've recently been hospitalized, I always share that. You know,
when twenty nineteen, I spent thirteen days in the hospital,
(17:37):
I didn't fast for a long time because I just
had lost too much weight and I couldn't regulate my
blood shugar, and so that wasn't a good idea. But
in more instances than not, I think most individuals can
benefit from a compressed feeding window and or at least
twelve hours of digestive reast. And I think that for
a lot of individuals, the more metabolically healthy you are,
(17:59):
the easier it will be to go without eating. The
less metabolically healthy you are, the more you are going
to struggle with those symptoms. Many people don't like the
sensation of feeling hunger. They just don't. It makes them uncomfortable.
Emotionally uncomfortable, and for those individuals, I always say, you know,
you put our training wheels on. Maybe we're going from,
(18:19):
you know, twelve hours of not eating to twelve and
a half. And maybe in the you're feeding window, you're
starting off with you know, you're starting off with MCT
oil in your coffee to kind of potentiate and kind
of buffer the effects of what you're experiencing. But I
remind people that the freedom of intermitt and fasting far
(18:40):
outweighs any of the potential unpleasant side effects. Like I
know you and I do quite a bit of business travel,
and I tell people there's nothing better than getting on
a plane and the junk cart goes by and you
don't ever even think about you don't want the junk cart.
You don't want the cookie, you don't want the processed
carbi junk that they're handing out. Maybe I'll have some water, maybe,
(19:03):
you know, occasionally I might, I might have some beef jerky.
But in most instances, I fast while I'm traveling because
to me, it's just an opportunity to kind of upregulate
some of the key benefits of intermittent fasting without having
to worry about junkie seed oils or ultra process foods,
which is what you find in most airports. Unfortunately, there
are a couple standouts in the United States. There are
(19:23):
a couple airports I've been in that I've been humbly
impressed by what they serve, but most are serving crap
and junk. So from my perspective, intermint fasting is something
that we can consider, we can engage in and certainly
discuss with our healthcare practitioners to see if it's right
for us.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I love it. I love it, Cynthia, And just to
give you some context for me, it was I started
to get excited about it when I found that people
were reversing disease with it. As you mentioned, type two
diabetes are hypertension. Like, once again, you were not doing
similar train. You weren't hearing this as a possibility. So
(20:03):
when hearing that using this lifestyle modification tool to improve
outcomes for our patients, it was to me it was
such a huge lever. So one question that has come
up repeatedly online and even people come to me with
(20:25):
this too, is why does it work? Like is there
something magical about fasting? Is it just the caloric restrictions
that make it effective. What's your take on why it works.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah, I mean if it were just about cicco calories
and calories out, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So would you call it sequel?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Yeah, calories and calories Out's what the Jim Bros say,
And so I kind of coined it just to say
cicco because that's overly simplistic and reductionistic. So when we're
talking about the benefits of it or mint fasting, you know,
mental clarity is up there. You know, there's neurocognitive improvement.
Suddenly people because they're booch, sugar is stabilized and they're
(21:08):
able to tap into fat stores as a source of energy.
We back up and talk about there's different forms of
energy in the body. There're stored carbohydrate is glycogen, there's
stored fats, it's fatty acids. Fatty acids are a long
burning it's like a big log on the fire. You know,
if you're using fatty acid, you're going to have a
lot of mental clarity, You're going to have sustained energy
(21:29):
versus like most individuals, at least here in the United
States that are sugar burners, they're burning glycogen. You know,
you're being chased by a saber tooth tiger. You're going
to burn glycogen up front because it's a fast source
of energy, but it is not a sustained source of energy.
It is not going to get you from morning to
night exactly. It's Kinley on the fire, and so helping
(21:50):
people understand that, you know you are going to get
a degree of mental clarity while you're in a fasted
state that you probably didn't even consider would be one
of the best benefits. So number one from top down
neurocognitive improvement, mental clarity, and some of that can also
be from the keytones that are produced. You know, beta
hybriddroxy but rate in particular diffuses across the blood brain barrier.
(22:11):
That's why we feel good. But I think about digestive
rest less bloating, maybe less constipation, less diarrhea. A lot
of middle aged women deal with those symptoms. I think
about improvement in biophysical markers. So if we're eating less often,
we're probably going to get improvement in blood pressure, lipids
and particular triglycerize and HDL, especially if someone is not
(22:31):
metabolically healthy. I think about improvements in inflammation. You know,
we talk about inflammating that inflammation gets turned up, especially
in perimenopause and menopause for women, that can lead to
joint pain, can lead to digestive distress. I also think about,
you know, some of the other benefits. There's one scientific
principle called atophagy, which is upregulation of diseased and disordered organelles.
(22:55):
Now you could make the argument that you have to
fast for a longer period of time to get improved
men in utophagy or mitophogy, which is recycling disease disordered mitochondria,
which are the kind of the battery cells in our cells,
little battery packs, kind of the ATP production. So I
remind people that there are a lot of benefits, but
(23:16):
those are some of the high points. The other thing
that I'll see in a lot of my female patients,
all of a sudden, their menstrual cycles have improved, especially
if they've got polycystic ovarian syndrome, which we know at
the basis of PCOS is inflammation, oxidative stress, and insular resistance.
And so you'll see this multiplicity of improvement. But those
are some of the things that we'll see up front,
But I would say the mental clarity, and then people
(23:39):
come to Innermint fast and because they want to lose weight,
and they stay for all the other benefits. They just
come to it because they're like, Okay, I'm weight loss resistant.
I want to lose weight. And then all of a
sudden they're like, I have more energy, I'm sleeping better.
I have more energy to interact with my kids, my dogs,
my significant other. My sleep is better. So I think
of it as a very well rounded opportunity to improve
(24:02):
and optimize. And that's what we're talking about, optimization as
opposed to kind of the mindset that I certainly experienced
ten years ago, was you're in your forties, this is
just the way things are. Suck it up, accept this
and that. And I'm here to tell you that and
your listeners that it doesn't have to be that way.
Internment fasting can be something that you utilize a few
(24:25):
days a month, a few days a week, could be
that you're doing it five days a week. I think
it's ultimately that flexibility piece for renderment fasting is really important.
But as I always say, people come tournamit fasting out
of the curiosity to lose weight. They stay for all
the other benefits.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
We're listening to Prevention over Prescription with Doctor K.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
No Radio, No Problem stream is live on Sugay ninety
sixty AM dot CA.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Welcome back to Prevention over Prescription with Doctor K. So
two things. One, when it comes to my line of work,
my patients don't speak, so they are it's when people
just coming to me with seeking wellness advice or lifestyle
modifications that improve their usually because they're overweight, or sometimes
(25:29):
even the perimental pausal women looking for some support. And
I say, it's harder to Number one, it's harder to
get those calories when you have a smaller window. So, like,
I think there's an aspect there, but I also think
this is my theory and I have nothing to prove it,
or I'm not haven't read anything to prove this theory.
(25:50):
I think when you have spikes in your insulin when
you're more poor inflammatory, it would be like taking that
calories in and calories out, equation and amplifying components. So
if you are if you're eating something that is more
insologenic made up that word. If something is going to
be more pro inflammatory, if it was a hander calories.
(26:12):
Now it's going to be one hundred and fifty calories
to your body as and vice versa. Like if something
was on the books that's been one hundred calories, but
you've been fasting and you had a bunch of protein
with it, then you get less of an insolent spike.
So you're getting less perceived calories in terms of your
in terms of how your body responds. That's the way
(26:34):
I've always kind of looked at it because I agree
like I've seen too many people on the keto side.
I've seen too many people that have focused, Like you know,
they're having the same amount of calories, are more, yet
they're still losing weights, their body comp is still improving.
So I'm a believer that it's not as simple as
(26:55):
you mentioned. It's there's more to that story. But I
always like pushing people like us because it's not like
I don't know if there's a RCT or I don't know,
like like even bench model study to kind of prove
(27:17):
what we're saying.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
That's yeah, well, I think you're right that you know,
the average American eats anywhere from eat to ten times
a day, and each time you're eating. If you're eating
what most Americans are eating, you're eating a lot of
processed carbohydrates. And if we just even look at macros,
the impact on blood sugar dysregulation is highest with carbohydrates.
(27:41):
And then you know protein, but protein tends to buffer it.
And then fat has almost a negligible impact on insulin.
So it goes back to this nutrition piece. The choices
that we are making still have an impact on our
blood sugar. But if you were just eating a bowl
of rice, a bowl of pasta, a pop tart, I
can that's going to have a very different effect on
(28:02):
your blood bluecose, insulin, cortisol as opposed to having a
steak with broccoli. And so I have kids that lift
very heavy, and so they know exactly the levers they
need to pull around lifting. But they're very metabolically healthy
and athletic, and so I sometimes am humored when they make,
you know, two cups of rice with their chicken, and
(28:23):
I'm like, that's great that you can eat that. I
probably wouldn't fare so well if I did. However, with
that being said, just helping people understand that the choices
we choose to make when we eat can have a
really profound net impact on our metabolic health. And this
is where when I talk to women in particular about fasting,
helping them understand your feeding window needs to be wide
(28:44):
enough to consume one hundred grams of protein a day,
and if you can't, then we need to work on that.
And this is why, you know, we talk about how
as we get older that impetus for muscle protein synthesis.
I would say my kids can sneeze with ten grams
of protein and I need thirty to fifty. We know,
based on the research that we need more stimulus to
(29:06):
grow our muscles as we get older. That's why we
have to lift heavier weights. That's why we have to
eat more protein. Otherwise we're succumbing to sarcapedia. So it
goes back to that conversation about, yes, we want to
eat less frequently so we keep insulin and blow gluco stable,
but we also want to make sure when we are
eating that we're eating the right combinations of foods. And
(29:28):
you know, it's interesting, I just submitted my book manuscript
about the gut microbiome and the changes that occur in
middle aged women, and you know, I was looking at
like why the ketogenic diet doesn't work for some women,
and a lot of it has to do with the
composition of the gut microbiome, and so be touched on keto,
and I know keto for some people is incredibly powerful.
(29:48):
And then I have other patients that do keto and
they gain ten pounds on keto and they're like, wait
a minute, this wasn't supposed to happen. But if you
actually look at the research, the gut microbiome has a
tremendous amount to do with how much calories are extracted
and how your body processes things. And so sometimes a
higher fat, lower protein diet may not be the right
diet for you. And that's why, you know, working with
(30:10):
clinicians that have knowledge of nutrition and neal frequency is
so important.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, there's so much here I want to hit on
because I think I alluded this, alluded, this tear when
we first met. The gut bic or biome is an
absolute mystery to me. But I'm going to leave this
fairly open and let you go where you want to
go with it. But when it comes to the middle
aged woman, you touch on some strong points and I've
(30:37):
learned just through conversations, not through clinical experience, that there
is nuance there like I you know, I saw even
in fact, I don't know if you found this, I
bought some even women struggle with fasting in general, like
you know, in terms of and my theory was that
maybe I should leave this for you. But you know,
(30:58):
trying to extend those fat too long and so they're
getting a more of a cortisol stress response, so they're
retaining fluid, retaining their weight. So I'm curious one like
nuances when it comes to a perimenopausal middle aged women
because they're large part of the audience that are listening
(31:19):
now to the levers that you want to touch on,
like you mentioned protein, mentioned weight training, and three if
the gut microbiome is a large part of what we're
having to manipulate or adjust or it's just something that
we should be keeping in the back of our minds.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yeah, all such important questions. I would say that, you know,
one of the things I see with frequency is women
in their twenties and thirties, they have a certain way
that they can dial in on calories and they can
dial in on exercise, and they effortlessly lose weight well
that changes as you get older. And so I think
for a lot of women, the mindset is if a
little bit of fasting is good, more is better. A
(32:00):
little bit of exercise is good, more is better. If
a little bit of cloric restriction is good, more is better.
And I call it the triad. And these are women
who are so their bodies are so stressed. We know,
we become less stress resilient as we are navigating early
perimenopause with that loss of progesterone signaling from the ovaries,
and so a lot of these women are just it's
(32:21):
too much stress on the body. You know, we use
a term hormesis, but too much hormontic stress. And so
in some instances, these women would be better off doing
twel hours of digestive rest, dialing back on the intensity
of exercise, eating more food, which seems completely counterintuitive when
they're trying to lose weight. So, you know, Number one
is like having an honest discussion with yourself. Are you
(32:44):
over taxing your body? And I can tell you when
I was probably forty two forty three, I was still
doing very intense CrossFit like classes and my gym and
I was doing spin and I was just doing a
lot of intense exercise and I just hit a wall.
I completely hit a wall, and I went through an
entire year. Well, all I did was walk. I'm not
(33:04):
kidding an entire year because my adrenals were so thrashed.
I don't like the term adrenal fatigue because I don't
think that's a real term. But we can speak to
the fact that we know that women become less stress resiling,
and part of that are some of the hormonal changes
that are occurring. But we have to do the right
kind of exercise, the right kind of nutrition, the right
(33:26):
kind of intermittent fasting around our cycle, and only if
we're in a position where we can successfully fast. I
agree with you that a lot of times what I
see is women really wanting to push the fasting. Maybe
they've dialed in on the exercise and the stress and
the macros, but they're still fasting two three days every week.
I'm like, what are you doing. Like, there's a very
(33:47):
well known bio hacker who's in his twenties, super nice guy,
really smart, and he does like too long fasts every month,
and I was trying to explain to my husband. He's
like twenty five, it's different. He can get away with
that then. But what I get is women in their forties,
fifties and sixties that want to fast all the time, relentlessly,
(34:07):
and so it's helping them understand like are you honoring
your body and really having a frank discussion with yourself?
And I think you know the other piece of that is,
you know, the macro's piece is so important. It's like,
can you get your macros in in your feeding window?
And if the answer is no, then you need to
widen your feeding window or not fast at all. I
do a lot less fasting at this stage of life
(34:28):
than I did five ten years ago, and that is
because I'm trying to build muscle and it's a lot
harder at the stage of life. It's not impossible, but
you have to be very diligent. And I would say
the other thing is when we're looking at the gut microbiome. Yes,
we know there are benefits from eating less often on
the gut, but again it's all about that hormetic stress.
Is it the right amount of stress at the right time.
(34:49):
It's not when you're going through a divorce, you've lost
your job, you're going through a big move, you're not sleeping,
you're super stressed out, you can't even get through a
workout because you're so tired. You know, you're irritated, you're irritable.
Maybe your hormones are taking a nose dive. And we
all know that our hormones govern everything that we do
in our bodies, and so I really think it speaks
(35:11):
to every woman's experience and perimenopause and menopause is as
unique as they are. So what works for me may
not work for you. Not you, but I'm saying you
like proverbiably you or any other person. And it's really
doing a little bit of the experimentation of the end
of one So for each one of us figuring out,
like what makes our bodies feel good and being honest
(35:32):
about it, what makes our bodies feel terrible, and avoiding
those things or saying no to those things. And I
think that has been my experience over the last ten years.
You know, working with patients is really seeing like encouraging
women to tap into their own intrinsic wisdom of their
bodies and determining what feels good. And a lot of
(35:53):
people don't like having a thing for themselves. They've been
conditioned to believe that we listen to these influencers online
or we follow one ideology and we aren't willing to evolve.
And I tell everyone just be open to the possibility
that what you did two years ago might not be
what works now, and that's okay, and so just throughout
the rest of our lives, we may course correct to
(36:16):
find what works for us. And so I share openly.
I lost my dad last year, and I promised myself
that I would not succumb to sarcopenia and frailty, which
is what contributed to my father's death. And one of
the things that made sure I was in alignment with
that was that I needed to widen my feeding window.
So doesn't mean that I never fast know, but I
(36:38):
day to day, I'm very conscientious about three boluses of protein,
enough protein every day, lifting heavy weights and being consistent
about it, and helping women understand that you know, you
don't have to do the same thing forever. You can
course correct and that applies to men as well, like
figuring out what works for you. What works today may
not work tomorrow, and that is okay.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
We're listening to Prevention over scripture with doctor.
Speaker 5 (37:01):
K you live where the street is in the basement,
partner with one of your friends and the tapships all
night water Torture in.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Stream us live at SAGA ninety sixty am dot C A.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Welcome back to Prevention over Prescription with Doctor K once again,
just wanted to express how sorry I was to hear
about your dad. I know it was around you didn't morning.
I think it was before your didn't MOONI by February
twenty twenty, Oh my god, time is flying or November,
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
It all runs together.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
It all runs together. And just wanted to express the
admiration too, of pivoting and wanting to be strong, and
as you mentioned, I know you do to work in
the cardiac units, since like that's what we're trying to avoid,
is like that frailthy element. It's it's it's as I
think I mentioned this on your podcast, how it's actually
(38:13):
hard to die. It's it's the machines work, It's it's
about that quality of life. It's like, how are you
going to function afterwards? So I commend you for not
being dogmatic. It's one of the things I look for
and leaders and people that I admire is that ability
to to pivot when appropriate as knowledge that you acquire
(38:36):
knowledge as you go through experience. What are you going
to do to change and improve your situation? But I
am curious because I've been going against my own advice.
I've been pretty dogmatic about fast and like, I like, uh,
it's some of you could tell I went to the dentist.
So I'm only speaking for one side. So I was
(38:58):
trying to power down a shake before or I'm on
Eastern time, so it's you know, I've only had a
shake today. It's two forty five over here was my question.
My question was, yeah, so I've been for the last
six years. I don't eat breakfast occasionally depending on that.
That what the scenario is. So what have you How's
(39:22):
your window changed? Because you mentioned like you've expanded your window,
So I'm really curious to hear how that is pivoted.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Yeah, I know, it's it's interesting. My dad passed in June,
and without overburdening your community, my dad's frailty contributed to
his death. And it was actually really incredibly sad because
we lost my stepmother last year as well. But you know,
they're in a better place and they're probably you know, thriving,
(39:54):
thriving now. But I think for me that was such
a powerful experience to go through. I think when you
lose a parent, and to lose it in a way
where my brother and I had to make some very
difficult decisions, honor what my father wanted and make some
very difficult decisions in the neurow I see you and
the trauma surgeon, and you know, it left enough of
an impression on me that I walked away saying, what
(40:16):
am I going to do differently? Because I am my
father's daughter. We are both kind of English, smaller body
habitist people. My dad was not a big person, and
I was like, I could be just like my father
and be his age and falling and hit my head.
And so I was like, right away, the thing I
need to do is really get serious about storm training,
and I really need to be serious about my protein intake.
(40:40):
And so from that point forward, I hired the most
amazing personal trainer who is wonderful and she is not
a fan of internet fasting, and so we have these
very vivid conversations, and she wasn't the reason why I
stopped fasting regularly. It was with the understanding that I
can't get enough protein in, and it was like a consistence.
(41:00):
The issue. It's different when I'm traveling. I do anticipate
it's going to be harder for me to get protein in.
But the day to day, and I'm privileged that I
have the ability to work from home, so I mean
I can stop and eat. And so I said, if
I want to be serious about a strong body as
I get older, to avoid tarcipedia, I have to get serious.
And so that meant a twelve hour feeding window. So
(41:23):
in most instances, I'm breaking my fast fairly early, usually
with thirty to forty grams of protein. And the other
things that I've changed is that I eat before I exercise.
I went many, many years of not fueling my workouts
and what I've come to find and so on Mondays,
I train with my trainer at four o'clock. By the
time I see her, I've had two meals, and I
(41:45):
told her we have another day where we work out
at nine and nine o'clock in the morning. I can't
push as hard as I can in the afternoon. And
I think a lot of it has to do with
the fact that I haven't had two meals. Two good
sized protein boluses and I'm working out with a lot
of fuel on board, and so for me personally, it
has been my end of one experiment that building muscle
(42:06):
and changing body composition. Although I'm not a big person,
you know, when you look at those bioimpedance ratings that
are showing your fat free masks versus your muscle mass,
those don't lie. And so I was like, Okay, I
want to put on muscle. I want to pound five
pounds of muscle, which takes a lot of effort at
this stage of life. I'm on bioidentical hormone replacement therapy,
(42:27):
I'm lifting heavy, I'm eating enough protein, and it's slowly happening,
but it takes a lot of effort. And to your point,
especially as someone who has a platform that's known about
internet and fasting, I was initially very nervous to share
with my community, and I did very transparently this summer,
and I got more positive feedback from people saying I
(42:47):
respect you more because you're willing to change your mind
than being in an echo chamber. Because I had people saying,
you're going to make a mistake. People are going to
stop following you, They're not going to believe in you,
and it's been completely the opposite. I I think people
respect me more for being transparent and encouraging them to say, hey,
if this doesn't work for you anymore, that's okay. And
(43:08):
so I humbly share that experience because I think that
we as clinicians need to set the standard for our
patients and our clients to say it's okay if something
no longer serves you, or maybe it serves you, but
you just do it episodically. So it doesn't mean that
I never fast, but most days I'm eating in a
wider feeding whendow. In fact, my kids think it's funny.
(43:29):
They're like, mommy eats breakfast now, Yes I do. It's
not a big meal, but it's protein and usually some
carbohydrate because my body likes the carbs, healthy carbs. I
ate more carbohydrates now than I ever did in a
long time. I was a long term low carb paleo
carb cycling, and now I'm like days I lift. I
ate more carbohydrates. It could be potato, it could be fruit,
(43:51):
it could be a little bit of both, you know,
root vegetables. And so I encourage people that are listening
to not be rigidly dogmatic, because if we let our
pride get in the way of doing what's ultimately best
for us, that doesn't serve us. And that's not how
you lead.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
You know what you're you're describing being an unapologetic leader.
That's what you're describing. Because I know, I know this
must have been hard for you.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
It's very hard.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Like even just seeing you bust that bust this out
right now, I can see that it's it's it's a challenge.
And I'll say this too, like I've had people approach me.
I'm close with the personal trainer and dietitian crossfitter name
is deb Sloan. She told me this early on, and
(44:43):
I told her, you know, I'm not saying you're wrong.
I just said, like, I love working out fasted. I
got good results fasted, And and the more I thought
about it, is like I have no problem getting my
protein goals into two meals, Like no problem I could
get anyway, like I'm two or five getting one hundred
and fifty grands of protein. I could do that in
(45:05):
one meal. To be honest with you, So like, I
you know, not everyone can do that though, right, So
I really like the idea of personalizing it. Ultimately, we
say to every to our clients and to our listeners,
it's what's your goal, right, and so when you when it,
(45:27):
when it goes down to that, I don't care how
you get to your goal because usually it's a health
cool obviously, and I want to teach you or guide
you on how you can achieve that. And that's exactly
what you're doing. Because there's some people, like you said,
they're still going to benefit from frequent fasting. But you know,
it just depends on what your goal is and what
(45:48):
stage your life you're in. And I've been thinking about
this too, cent to be honest with you, like I was.
You know, we both got supplement companies. I'm thinking about
throwing the shake in pre meal and seeing how it goes.
Like I don't I don't feel hired during my workouts.
I feel like I could still like my workouts are
still on point when I work out in the mornings,
but maybe I could be pushing more. And to be
(46:10):
honest with you, I wouldn't love to put on an
extra couple pounds of lead muscle mass because I know,
like you get that body armor now because it's going
to be harder to do that, you know, as we age.
So yeah, I think there's a lot of truth to
what you're saying, and once again just admiring your courage
and your willingness to hibot.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
Thank you. No, I mean, what's ironic is I think
I was talking to Stacy Simms after Stacy Simms and
we weren't even recording at that point, and I said,
I just wanted to let you know because I know
she's not a fan of internet fasting, and I said,
I wanted to give you like the end of one experiment,
and I told her the whole story, and she's like,
I'm so proud of you, Like it gives me chills
(46:53):
because I have so much respect for her. And she said,
you know, what you're choosing to do right now has
so much long term impact on the trajectory of your
frailty index. Like we talk about it isn't just a
muscle loss. It's that you then become frail. And then
when you become frail, you're more likely to fall, whether
(47:14):
you break a hip, whether you hit your head, which
is what happened with my dad. And I just keep saying,
like I'm thinking about that strong lady body like even
my husband. My husband lifts pretty regularly, and I'm like,
both of us we do not want to be you know,
we've got like teenage boys. You know, eventually they're gonna
get married and have kids. I'm like, I want to
be on the floor with my grandkids. I want to
be able to run around with them. I want to
(47:35):
be active, and I want to be neurocognitively intact, like
I don't want to be a burden to my family.
And so the choices we're making now have long term impact.
It's hard to see that. Like you and I know
what happens when people get frail, but I think the
average person, unless they've been directly impacted by a loved
one falling, breaking a hip, hitting their head and getting
(47:57):
a head bleed in my circumstances, you've seen that impact.
It's very hard to understand why muscle is so important.
Is of course, it's a body composition thing. I mean,
that's that's not the reason why we do it, but
I mean it feels good when you've got a muscle
suit on, but it's more about loc emotion stability. Like
my trainer. Actually, it's funny, she gets me on and
(48:19):
off the floor constantly, because she's all about functional fitness.
And she said, if you go to a stand up gym,
sometimes all the trainers do is they just have you
walking from one machine to another. But I am on
and off the floor constantly, you know, doing dead hangs,
which if anyone's listening, the first time I tried to
do that, I was shocked. I was like, oh, I'm strong,
(48:41):
We're slowly working up to two minutes. But the first
time I did it, it was like fifteen seconds, and I
was like.
Speaker 5 (48:46):
What was that.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
I think, yeah, that's my goal, that's our goal. That's
our goal. But I can tell you the first time
I did it, I was fifteen seconds and I was like,
oh my god, this is so hard. But like helping
us all understand that we want these abled body bodies
to be able to remain strong, not just skinny, Like
there was so much focus on women in particular just
(49:10):
being skinny, and I'm like, skinny does not get you
that strong body, and so thinking differently about how we
want to age, and I know for both of us,
i'd be incouraged. You you have to send me a
message and let me know if you eat before your
workout if it's any different. But I can tell you
Mondays are my really hard workout, and my trainer knows this,
so she I walk in there knowing I'm going to
(49:32):
get my butt kicked, but I'm like, it's nots of
bad because I've got two meals on board, so I've
got lots of fuel to work through.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Wow. Yeah, I struggle with I always find I'm a
little bit lacklustered in the afternoon work. I was relative
to the interesting. Yeah, so I always alluded to that
because I have food in my stomacher and I try
not to have to have your cargo in me for
my first meal. But you know, a lot of variables there.
(50:01):
But I'm going to try. I'm going to try next
time I do a hard work and I'm going to
try to shake before and I'll report back.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
And yeah, definitely let me know. I'd love to hear.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
So, Cynthia, this has been as usual. I feel like
we're so aligned. I feel like we were if we
were in the same city, we'd be doing more hangouts.
Like you're just a genuine, wonderful person that's like impacting
so many lives and this is what the magic is
of what you do because that message of how to
(50:34):
get healthy. Yes, you're an MP that was seeing people
on the one on one, but your messages through your podcast,
through your books, to your social media content has been
impacting lives now for multiple years. So I just want
to first of all, just celebrate you and how do
people eat more of Cynthia the.
Speaker 3 (50:57):
Well Thank you. It's always an honor to connect with you,
and hopefully we'll both be invited back to you Pneumonia
for twenty twenty five because it would be great to
hang out with you and your lovely wife again. The
easiest way to connect with me is on my website,
so it's www dot Cynthia Thurlow dot com. Obviously, doctor
K has been a guest on Everyday Wellness, which is
my favorite thing I do in my business, along with
(51:18):
speaking speaking at events. Those are my top things that
I love to do. But we have programs. We have
a supplement line that's totally dedicated to middle aged women
call the Midlife Pause. That is the working title of
the second book, although my editor's already told me she
wants to adjust it, and I'm humbly open to the
possibility of changing it. Like I say about everything, everything
(51:39):
is flexible because I think that's so important. But if
you listen to the podcast and you end up checking
things out, make sure you send me a DM. I'm
most active on Instagram. I'm a little snarky on Twitter,
so before warned. Although lately I've been less vested in
getting into discussions on Twitter that are anything less than
just straightforward.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
Let me tell you a hell there, I guess I
lose my mind with that step. Cynthia, thank you so
much for joining us and I can't wait to see
you again.
Speaker 3 (52:07):
Sounds good.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
If you enjoyed that, please leave us any comments at
quodcast ninet nine at jmail dot com. Leave a five
star rating. Follow us on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter
at quodcast, Jump on our newsletter, jump on our community,
check out guid a nutrition. We've got put in podcasts
fifteen for your fifteen percent off, the bundles and the supplements,
(52:32):
all these things that we're promoting, all these things that
we're getting behind is on that preventative side, on that
proactive side, so that you show up as your best self,
show up guide a strong baby. Here we go. Let's
do this all right, people. I hope you're feeling a
little bit more jumping your step after that episode. Thanks
for listening, talk real so peace.
Speaker 4 (52:55):
Yeah, it's like, if you want to ride with me,
you don't even know what is books.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
If you want to get you want to get thirty,
you want to go left right. This is what we
don't want us to knock ups.
Speaker 3 (53:04):
That's just rock US
Speaker 1 (53:05):
Forty one, no radio, no problem, stream us live on
SAGA nine sixty am dot c a
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!