In this episode of Solving Healthcare, hosted by Dr. K, we're joined by Dr. Mike Hart to explore the evolving therapeutic landscape of cannabis. The conversation covers the effects of cannabinoids like THC, CBD, CBG, and CBN on sleep, pain management, and mental health, along with their applications for youth and considerations for mitochondrial health. Dr. Hart also shares insights into emerging research and the importance of proper dosing for safety and efficacy.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The views expressed in the following program are those of
the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of
Saga nine sixty am or its management. My music ha
ha ha, sure I do.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm from the street.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Sweare to frocast Nation.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We got a special guest today, doctor Mike Hart. He
is a specialist when it comes to cannabis, and we
learn a lot on this topic. And as you'll hear
my ignorance on this episode, there's a lot that we
needed to unpack because to me, this is a bit
(00:45):
of a mysterious area. You hear about these CBD to
THC the ratios. Is it good for sleep? Is it
good for anxiety? Is it good for PTSD? Are you
going to be reliant on it? Are you gonna be hooked?
Are you going to be uh you know stone based
on which ratios you're taking? Like so many questions and
(01:05):
Mike clarifies all of this, and he's fantastic. He's a podcaster,
fellow Canadian out of London. He's got huge social media
following links in the show notes. But yeah, this is
a very informative episode. So before jumping into it, we're
(01:26):
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That's twenty eight day Reboot dot co. All right, folks,
without further ado. Doctor Mike Hart Cannabis specialist, physician, freaking
(03:42):
beast of a man too. I haven't met you in
the flesh, but you look like you're jacked as all held.
But Mike, welcome to the show. Thank you so much
for having me here.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Brother. I'll try to live off to that introduction, but
we'll see what happens. Okay. Oh man, it's.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Been like we've got to know each other for a
bit now, and it's funny that we've never met in
the flesh, but it's I feel like we're cut from
the same cloth, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
One hundred percent, man, one hundred percent. And we'll definitely
make it happen in the flesh at some point. You know,
got just all the way in Ottawa. I'm in London,
so we're probably about eight hours away or something like that. Yeah,
but we'll have to make it happen someday. I'm sure
we'll meet up in too or something like that.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Exactly exactly. So we're going to talk about something that
is we've never covered in the five years of having
this podcast, is the landscape of cannabis. And maybe even
before we start, Mike like, how did you get into
that space?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, sure, I can. I can't answer that question. So
you know, initially, you know, the reason why I got
into it was because there was a lot of people
coming to me that couldn't sleep well. You know, that
was kind of the big thing. And they were using
drugs like you know, zopa, clone, trazodone, Sarah. Like, there's
there's lots of different ones out there. And I'm not
(05:02):
saying that, you know, those medications aren't effective for some people.
For some people they're incredibly effective. They're they're life savers.
But other people want other options, you know, and some people,
you know, they just have an aversion I guess to pharmaceuticals.
So I'm not one of those people, like you know,
I think that you should just make your decision based
(05:23):
upon you know, risks and benefits. And sometimes there are
some pharmaceuticals to take when you know, the risks do
out weigh the benefits. But you know, some people really
just want to try something natural and they want to
have something that's you know, non pharmaceutical based. And so
that was kind of the big reasons a lot of
people were not sleeping well and sometimes not getting the
(05:44):
results that they want it With the prescription drugs that
I just mentioned, I mean, obviously there's other ones as well,
but those are kind of probably the big three that
I just I just mentioned, And so because of that,
you know, I wanted to be able to offer something else.
And I knew that, you know, using cannabis can be
effective for sleep. You know, I had not used cannabis
(06:07):
like medicinally at that point in my life, like I
had used it, Like I was certainly not like a
like by any means of the stretch imagination, like a
pothead by any like when I was in high school
or university. Like it was just like, you know, if
my friends had it on the weekend, like I might
kind of use it with them sort of thing, but
(06:27):
I wouldn't didn't have it like on me all the
time or anything like that. But you know, I had
used it, and other people I know had used it,
you know, for sleep, like successfully. So it was something
I wanted to offer to patience. And so I started
practicing twenty thirteen, and then in twenty fourteen, Right at
the beginning of twenty fourteen was when they introduced this
MMPR program where it kind of became easier for physicians
(06:51):
to prescribe cannabis because at that point, the only way
in Canada you could prescribe cannabis is that basically have
someone grow it for you or you could grow at yourself.
And so it was a little bit cumbersome and kind
of difficult and how to manage, and you couldn't order
things like CBD oil and that kind of thing now.
And so from there, I you know, delved into that
(07:13):
program and just had a lot of success with people
who really struggled a lot with sleep. But it is
used for you know, so many different you know, conditions
right now. And uh, you know, when people think of cannabis,
they think of THC, and I understand that because you know,
that's what you know, people use in high school and
university to you know, get high. But there's so many
(07:36):
other cannabinoids that are incredibly effective, and we can certainly
chat about those today. But you know, basically, you know,
the roundabout answer was, I just knew that there was,
you know, some treatment like like cannabis was a good
treatment for some of these conditions that people have, particularly
with insomnia, but certainly for chronic pain and sometimes for
(07:58):
anxiety as well. But like I said that, I'm totally
willing though to talk about the negatives of tcs today
as well, and I think that we should discuss that
at some point to have like a full discussion about it.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
We'll be right back on Solved Healthcare Radio with doctor
Mike Hart.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Stream us live at SAGA nine sixty am dot c A.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
We are back on Solved Healthcare Radio with doctor Mike
I got I'm just going in a bit naive, like
I hear a lot about many of these benefits, sleep,
some chronic pain. We see it a bit of my
wearing my pietive care hat. But the effectiveness the other
indications I think are a bit of a mystery. And
(09:08):
I think a lot of people also worry about if
there's like some chronic side effects or long term of
impacts of you. So maybe at a high level mic
like we could just cover where you think people would
get benefit and then also not to load the question
too much, but if and are these impacts mostly from
(09:34):
a cannabinoid perspective, wars it some of those impacts related
to THHC. This is to me a bit of a
mystery too.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Yeah, So why don't we maybe chat about, you know,
a couple of different cannabinoids. I think that may just
make the discussion a little bit easier. So, see, we
know is the one that gets people high and it
does have some you know, therapeutic benefits, but it also
has a lot of drawbacks as well. And so the
therapeutic benefits that people get is, like I said, for
(10:05):
some people that can really help them with sleep, for
some people that really help them with pain control as well,
and so those are sort of like the bigger ones.
And a lot of people too do find it helpful
for anxiety. But you do have to be careful with
that because if you do use high TC cannabis all
the time, which I don't advise to do, eventually you
(10:26):
will develop a dependency on it and you're going to
need more and more THC to get the same effect. So,
you know, I really think that TC should be used
really methodically, So you should be measuring and you should
be knowing exactly how much you use, how much cannabis
are using, Like I don't like the answer when someone says,
you know, I'll use like two or three joints a day, Like,
(10:48):
I don't know what that really means, because I don't
know how much you know cannabis is the needs joint.
I don't know what the percentage of TC is any
showing I don't know if they're putting CBD in that
with it. So there's a lot of different you know,
things that can you know, impact the way someone can
can use cannabis, right, and so you want to use uh,
(11:08):
you want to know exactly how you are using it.
And so TAC, like I said, is the one that
can get people high. But let's talk a little bit
about CBD as well. So CBD is non intoxicating cannabinoid,
so it's not going to get you high. A lot
of people also find this to be incredibly effective for sleep.
They also find it to be helpful for anxiety, and
(11:30):
they also find it to be helpful for muscle spasms
and for pain. I find with multiple scross As patients,
actually that's almost like their number one drug for muscle
spasms is CBD. It's very very effective for that. And
then coming back to the other indications, so you know sleep,
you know, I mentioned now several times, so some people
(11:51):
will can get away with just using CBD only for sleep,
and some people will need a little bit of TC
with the CBD to help them sleep at night. And
what I'll say about using the combination is that you're
less likely to develop a tolerance to THC if you're
using more of a higher CBD content. So say if
(12:12):
you use you know, ten milligrams of THC on your own,
and then eventually you may need to use fifteen, twenty thirty,
they may just keep going up. But I find that
with a lot of my patients that they use say
like ten milligrams of CBD and then say only five
milligrams of CBD maybe in that combination, and sometimes you
do need to move you know a little bit up.
(12:33):
But if you use a combination where it's more favored
in the CBD than the THC, then you're less likely
to get to dealt the dependence or tolerance to it.
And then the other aspect of that there is that
you know you're getting the benefits of both those cannabinoids
and so and just going back to you know, TC
(12:55):
for a second, and how you know that works so
for sleep in particular, like for people who have nightmares,
like veterans. You know, she has been shown to be helpful,
and there actually is a medication if you can get
a shopper's drug mate around any pharmacy in Canada called nabylone,
and nabylone is basically just teach in a pill form
(13:15):
now doesn't have all the other cannabinoids and terpenes in it.
So a lot of the you know, cannabis purists, you know,
don't really think that it's you know, a good medicine
in some ways. But regardless of what other people think,
if you do look at some trials of using nablon
with the patients of PTSD, it does help reduce nightmares. Now,
(13:36):
the issue there is like some people will say that
a cane reduce REM sleep. And so I've asked you know,
doctor Ethan Russo, who's sort of like the godfather cannabis.
I asked him about this in my podcast and he said, like,
you know, the reduction in REM sleep is so incremental
that like it's not really much to worry about, you know.
(13:56):
That being said, you know, if you are worried about it,
you know, you can use one of these trackers like
or our whoop or anything like that to see if
it's you know, making a difference. And again, you know,
that just comes back to being more aware and being
careful about how you're using it and being methodical with it.
So you know, if you can have something you know
to track it, then that would be beneficial. And then
(14:18):
you'll really know for sure. And then the other thing
with THC with regards to pain control is so you know,
I talked about as CBD can be effective for muscle spasms,
and CBD is more of like an anti inflammatory, so
it's helpful for like repetitive injuries and that kind of thing.
It's not as helpful unfortunately for neuropathic pain sometimes, so
(14:40):
like diabetic neuropathy, you know, numbness and tingling sciatica, these
kinds of things. So the way THHC works is that
it kind of blocks a signal that goes, say from
your knee to your brain, that telling that tells you
that you're in pain. So a lot of my patients
will say that, you know, they can kind of still
feel the pain a little bit, but it just doesn't
(15:00):
bother them, and they will report that, you know, overall,
can have a pretty drastic reduction. Like some people it
may only be you know, ten to twenty percent, but
for some people it could be like eighty percent to
one hundred percent. So you know, a lot of different
ways that it can it can help. And then you know,
coming back to the anxiety component, so you know, I'm
(15:21):
well aware of the fact that you know, if someone
who is a naive TC user you know, consumes TCHC,
then it will increase your heart rate and it may
make you feel paranoid, and it may make you, you know,
feel uncomfortable and like you have like you're having an
unpleasant experience. So you do have to be comfortable with that. So,
(15:42):
you know, that's why I always suggest to people that
you know, to try CBD initially because it's a non
intoxicating cannabinoid. And then if you want to add and
you know, TATC later, do it very very incrementally and
you can get you know, two and a half milligram
pills and that would be you know, a very good
starting dose for a lot of people to introduce. And
(16:03):
just one thing that I wanted to mention there too,
So I advise against smoking cannabis. Like, you know, don't
smoke cannabis. You should try to, you know, use it
through an oral form. It's definitely best, you know, second best,
you know, would be vaping. But you know, again, vaping
is just less harmful than smoking, and it just doesn't
(16:26):
mean that it has you know, no risks at all,
and there could still be some you know, acute lung
injury risk with it, so you do have to be
a little bit careful with that. So I would advise using,
you know, more of the oral form and then also
making sure that you're you know, being methodical about your
dose is and that you know exactly how much you use,
(16:47):
so you know, if you're going to use cannabis medicinally,
treat it like another medicine. Like treat it like the
medicines that you have in your medicine cabinet, where you
know exactly how much is any dose and you know
exactly how much to take each day. You know, that's
the way that it should be done properly. That's the
way to use it medicinal.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
We'll be right back on Solving Healthcare Radio with doctor
Mike Hart. Out of the night, into the water. We
push the boat from shore, breaking the air and the
stillness of the vain.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
No radio, No problem stream is live on SAGA ninety
sixty AM, dot C A Run AM Jewels Fast Run
and one Dam Jewels Fast Run and the Slow Mo.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
We are back on Solving Healthcare Radio with doctor Mike Hart. Incredible,
that's a beautiful summary. I's all like I'm four years old. Mike,
the reason to add THHC then for for folks, so
say whether you're gonna highlight sleep, pain or anxiety, it
(18:00):
sounds like there's a different Like in terms of the pain,
there's a different area that it's packing like more and
more improvement from a neuropathic perspective, as you mentioned. But
in terms of the other stuff, whether it's sleep or anxiety,
is there a reason to tell yourself, yes, I'll need
to add some THC.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
I wouldn't add THC unless you need to. You know,
like if you can get away with just using CBD,
then just used CBD. You know, don't add in something
that you know could potentially you know, get you, you know,
addicted to something you know. You only want to add
it in if you feel like the risks are going
to outweigh the benefits. And you know, when you're like
(18:40):
a veteran who's you know, been overseas and you've come over,
you know, back to Canada and you can't sleep and
you're just kind of going crazy, then obviously, you know,
using a little bit of THC to help calm you down,
to help you sleep throughout the night, you know, is
going to be beneficial for you and then in that instance,
you know, the benefits will outweigh the risks. But even
(19:00):
in that you know instance, you want to be methodical
with it. You know, you don't just want to like
smoke high t sea weed and you know kind of
like hope for the best, you know. And I'm not
saying that like you have to go to you know,
a doctor or anything like that. But you know, when
you do go to a doctor, hopefully they'll be a
little bit more methodical and tell you how to use
(19:21):
it properly and how to use it mediictally in certain
specific dosages. And so you know, like I said, if
you can stay away from TAC, then you know, stay
away from it, but if you are going to add
it in, do it very incrementally. And like I said,
you know, there's plenty of you know, two and a
half milligram tablets out there, and that dose seems to
(19:42):
be you know, incredibly helpful for for for a lot
of people, and it doesn't cause generally any intoxicating effects.
So even if you you know, haven't used to see
before and you take two and a half milligrams, I'm
not saying you'll have zero psychoactive effect. But it'll be
fairly animal overall.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
And you mentioned a couple of the side effects or
things of concern. Do you want to go through some
of the other areas that make you anxious or people
should be aware of in terms of that they're going
to explore taking a cannabinoid.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Yeah, I mean again, like I'm really only concerned about
you know, TC in terms of like an addictive type
of property, like the other cannabinoids. Like I did mention CBD,
but some people you know may have been are asking
themselves why you know I haven't mentioned things like CBN
or CBG, And I can talk about those you know
(20:40):
a little bit as well, because as I think, that's
help with the discussion. So you know, CBD, as I mentioned,
is sort of like the one that a lot of
people are very very aware of now, And I guess
and as I mentioned earlier, you know, it helps a
lot with anxiety, can help with sleep, help with pain control,
help with muscles, basms. You can even help kids you
(21:02):
know who have seizures. Lots of people are you know
listening to this has probably seen the Sander Gupta documentaries
on CNN that he put out starting maybe like ten
years ago, I think they were literally just called like weed.
We'd one, we two, we three put out a few
of them. But you know, it can be helpful for
those for those for those types of of kids who
(21:23):
you know have irretractable seizures. But maybe even you know
more so, Matt, I think one underrated uh place or
one underutilized place is probably in children who have behavioral disorders,
So kids with like autism, and you know kids even
with just like with anxiety and with with depression and
(21:43):
with ADHD. You know a lot of in my opinion,
you know, trying CBD first before like an s SRI
I for someone like that is in my opinion, you know,
safer and likely well probably induce better results in many
in many ways as well. And so I think that
(22:04):
like for you know, kids who are and because you know,
I I'll admit, like I don't really prescribe you know,
SSRIs and that kind of thing to like team to
like teens and you know, adolescents and kids because and
it's outside of kind of like my scope of practice. Anyway,
if someone want to do that, I would refer them
(22:24):
to to a pediatrician or maybe a psychiatrist. But you know,
I think that there is an opportunity or a way
for people to utilize CBD for a lot of these kids,
you know, instead of putting them on stimulants are instead
of putting them on an SSRI. You know, I think
that using CBD may be more effective. And you know,
talking about you know, the developing brain, and I completely
(22:46):
agree that you shouldn't be using you know, high teac cannabis,
especially before the age of like twenty one, but probably
even twenty five before u you know, your brain is
fully developed. But you know what effects are these ssri
and you know, all these amphetamines having on kids as well,
you know, during that age group. So you know, I'd
like to see some some data on that as well.
(23:08):
And you know, that has to be impacting the brain
at some level. You know, CBD seems to be a
little bit less benign. So I think that you know,
introducing that into having that as more of like a
mainstream kind of medicine or accept it for that age
group would be helpful. And then but I didn't mention,
you know, the other connabloids I was going to get into.
(23:29):
So CBG is kind of bigger all So that's another cannabinoid,
and that's very interesting. It was actually a study done recently,
maybe just two to three months ago. One of the
authors on was doctor Ziva Koopa, who I know a
little bit, and she administered twenty milligrams of CBG and
this is two healthy volunteers and they had better verbal
(23:53):
memory at the end of the study and decreased and
anxiety and just overall better performance. So, you know, I
think that you know, there's other cannabinoids that are you know,
on the way that can also be extremely helpful for people.
And even now you know, you can get CBG. It
is commercially available, like through various different licensed producers on
(24:16):
the on the Canadian websites, you know, even through like
o c S you can get CBG oil. It's often
actually used in combination with CBD. And so some people
you know then ask, okay, well, what's you know better,
you know, CBD or CBG. And so they have some
overlapping but distinct mechanisms of action that are that are
(24:38):
actually a little bit different. So c b D mostly
acts we think on the five H T one A receptor,
but CBG also has some drenergic component to it as well,
and so because of that, you know, it seems to
help a little bit further even with anxiety in a
in a different mechanism, in a different way. And so
(24:59):
you know that extremely exciting and extremely helpful for a
lot of people. And like I said, not even for
people who have anxiety. You could almost look at as
like a nootropic or something to take like before even
something like this like a podcast to just like you know,
improve your verbal memory or your verbal fluency. Right, I
(25:20):
should have taken it before this one. But yeah, and
then the other one I mentioned too, so CBN, So
a lot of people are using this one for sleep.
You know, Doctor Ethan Russo indicated to me that he
thought it was a little bit overhyped, and we don't
have too too much data on it right now in
(25:42):
terms of like randomized control control trials and so most
of the end of the evidence on that is a
lot of like anecdotal stuff. But most people use CBN
for sleep. And so you know, these are just like
four cannabinoids that were kind of talking about. They say
there could be like eighty to one hundred in cannabis,
(26:03):
which is like crazy, so like there's going to be
more and more coming out the one that's like super
exciting or I don't know why it hasn't been developed
more commercially because you know, I think it would be
very successful. So it's called TCV and SOCV yeah THCV,
(26:26):
so just tc with with a V at the end
of it. And so that was shown in a study,
like a randomized control trial in twenty sixteen to reduce hunger.
And so you know, we know how popular ozentpic is
and so you know, it's just kind of strange that
this has become commercially available or hasn't been really like
isolated where you could get like you know, TCV oil.
(26:49):
But from my understanding, like I've chatted with a couple
like growers and stuff like that, and you know, I'm
just a doctor. I'm not like a grower. I don't know,
like you know, how to grow cannabis and you even
if it's possible. But people kind of have mentioned to
me that with TCV it's just like harder to extract
for some reason. So I don't know, but I mean
(27:11):
someone's eventually going to figure it out. I mean they
got to, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Yeah, No, that's a nice summary because to me, once again,
a lot of this has been just like a mystery.
So a couple of questions that just going back a
little bit, so with the kids, is there data to
support that I'm just because this is like a first
for me, like in terms of utilizing it for some
(27:36):
of the mood disorders and so forth.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Is yeah, So there's there's definitely data on I mean,
we have epidolics, say for like seizure control and that
kind of thing. And then there is you know, some
data as well. There's only like a few trials that
indicate that, you know, when you give it to kids
who have autism, they have improved behavioral control. And then
there's is some studies indicating that you know, when you
(28:00):
give it to adolescence, it's me safe and effective as
well for things like anxiety. So there is you know,
some evidence on it. I do think that you know,
we do need like more robust evidence for sure, but overall,
like we have, you know, some scientific evidence, we have
you know, quite a bit of anecdotal evidence. And then
(28:21):
the other third thing component of this is you know,
when you compare CBD to some of the other things
that you would give, it just seems to be a
lot a lot more safe, you know, and so.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Really like with the with the youth, there didn't seem
to be any like as far as you know, like
any long term implications of like just CPD.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
No, not not at all, Like I mean now, like again,
like if you look at something like SSRIs, like a
lot of doctors will probably tell you, you know, the same
thing that like, you know, giving it to kids, there's
no long term side effects and that kind of thing.
You know, I don't necessarily know if I agree with
that statement, so some people you know may push back
(29:07):
and say the same thing to me about CBD. But
in terms of like the studies that you know, I've seen,
at least in the short term, it seems to be
you know, very very well tolerated, very safe. And then
the other part too that I should mention too, they
have done studies where they've you know, given people like
a decent dose of CBD, like I think in the
range is like one hundred and fifty milligrams a day
(29:29):
for you know, a few weeks, and then just abruptly
stopped it and there was no withdrawal effects. And so
that's important to know. But the other part of that
too is that like you know, I say there's no
withdrawal effects, and that's and that's true. But if you
take CBD and then it makes you feel better and
you're less anxious, you're more social, you don't just feel
(29:50):
better overall, and then you stop taking it, you know,
you'll return to baseline, right, so you you won't get
the effects of it anywhere. But that's not withdrawing from it.
That's just you know, returning to baseline. So sometimes people
can get you know, confused with that. You know, you
know what I mean. So it is something to kind
of consider.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
And when it comes to like when I look and
look back at some of my friends in high school
that were heavy users, they had the you know, the
they had the munchies, they seemed to be a motivated,
like they really didn't seem to want to get going
with life. Is that the THC component or CBD or
(30:31):
what what? What part of the cannibal cannab anoids is
that part of well?
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I think mostly like laziness is mostly just from like
your own personality and like a choice for the most part,
am I in my opinion, like cannabis can can make
you high, but like you know, and if you find
that you know, getting high makes you lazy, then you
can say, you know, cannabis makes you lazy for sure.
But you know there's other people like you know, SNeW
(31:00):
Dog and whiskally if it seemed to be working sixteen
hours a day, who are constantly high all the time,
who are doing okay. But you know that's not everyone.
And I you know, don't advise against that. And I
just don't like the idea of being you know, dependent
upon anything. And you know, I'm from the same boat.
Like I can think of people in my high school
who you know, smoked pot when they were you know, teenagers,
(31:22):
and it kind of seemed like it mess them up forever.
They never really you know, got going again. And so
you know again like you have to be really careful
about using this when you're you know, under twenty five,
especially when you're under you know, twenty one years old.
But you know, in terms of like the uh, the
like the laziest component and all that kind of stuff,
(31:42):
Like if you look at all like every single study,
like literally every single study that shows that cannabis users
have lower BMIs than non cannabis users. Like the last
time I looked, I think there was nine different studies
and they all showed the same thing, and so you know,
what's the reason for that, Like, you know, I'm not
(32:03):
entirely sure, you know, Uh, some people have these these
interesting theories on it. Like there's one on on PubMed
where it thinks that if you're using high t see
that this is sort of an odd one. It says
that like basically it fixes the omega three to omega
six ratio somehow, and so because of that, you know,
(32:25):
people are less inflamed and they're able to you know,
carry on and live healthier lives. But and then some
people think that there may be like a slight like
healthy user bias to it. Like I don't know if
that's you know, true or not, because I know lots
of people with smoke pot who are healthy, but I
know lots of people smoke powder aren't healthy too. So
(32:47):
you know, I'm kind of I don't know if I
buy the healthy user bias one or not. But yeah,
something that we need to need to kind of tease
out because if you look at the literature, like it
basically says again that like can users always have lower
BMIs than non canvas users.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
And but I'm sorry the the the quote unquote munchies
for different forgive me for lack of a better word.
Is that is that a THC thing or is it
a like CBD thing that's a THC thing. That's the
thing thing. Yeah, I'm a little bit.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I haven't reviewed this too much recently, but I think
it's it's the increase in grilling that it does that
makes your uh, you know, that's that's a as you know,
a you know, signal to your body then to start
eating more. And so you know, we know that that exists.
I'm not saying that the monkey doesn't exist. It definitely,
it definitely exists. And if you're someone who's sensitive to that,
(33:45):
you know, you gotta be careful with it because obviously
over eating has a lot of a lot of consequences.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Be right back on Solid Healthcare Radio with doctor Mike Hart.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Better do your time and grown up. The sew be
grown up.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Then I take the totally thing hopefully it's so news
take a take streamers live at SAGA nine sixty am,
dot C.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Up Bill with Israelies, Wrap the Babius job Box.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
We are back on Solid Healthcare Radio with up Mic.
So what I'm hearing though, Mike, is that a lot.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Of the the associations that we had as at least
when I was younger.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
With with cannabis is a lot of it was related
to teach seed. Now that I'm hearing this, it's like
the high.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
The.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Giggles and munchies like that, and so like that's a
lot different than taking some CBD or derivative of CBD
in terms of implications. So this is like, I know,
maybe I'm sound like a bit ignorant to a lot
of people, but this is very enlightening to me because
(35:05):
you know, it's that landscape, especially as uh, like I mean,
I have some credentials for this, but I found it
very challenging to work through because like you hear about
these ratios, you hear about these uh you know, you
know something only has CBD, it doesn't have THC. So
(35:25):
like I think that to me, Mike, this has been
this is super super clarifying. And so just a couple
of questions about some of the other versions. So when
you mentioned the CBG you said, you know, to improve memory.
It showed that it could improve memory. Is that something
that would people would take during the day, Like, because
(35:46):
like if I took CBD during the day or I'll
say CBG. Now would I be sleepy? Well, you know
what I mean, Like, wouldn't that affect like my alertness.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Generally No, So if you use a low dose of TC,
I know, it's odd that like, okay, some people are
taking the same thing during the day and that they're
using to sleep at night. And so you know, if
you take a low dose of CBD, it seems to
be a little bit activating, but if you take higher doses,
then it seems to be a little bit more sedating.
And so you know, and like you know, what's the
(36:22):
dose for people? You know, that varies so much, and
so I usually tell people though, to start with about
ten to twenty milligrams and see how that goes. I
find that when people use those kinds of doses, they
don't get sleepy. But yeah, that would be the only
you know, or I guess sort of the biggest side
effect from CBDU would potentially be sleepiness. But like I said,
(36:45):
it's it's it's very low unless you're going like higher doses,
you know what I mean, Like it's like, you know,
twenty milligrams, Like I would compare it maybe to what
like no no data on this kind of you know, spitball,
but maybe something like acting or clariton, like, you know,
those things aren't really supposed to make you tired because
you know, they're they're they're H one and or their
(37:06):
H two antagonists, I forget now which one is, you know,
so they don't make you tired, right, And so for
most people they find that, you know, use using low
doses will not make them, not make them tired. And
for some people it almost you know, I don't want
to say it gives them energy, like it doesn't increase
atp or anything like that. But what happens is that
(37:28):
if you're super anxious, you're always kind of like you know,
burning your energy sort of thing, you know, and then
eventually you can, you know, feel tired. But if you
can kind of just like eliminate that anxiousness, then you
can just feel more like smooth, you know, and then
that just kind of gives you like a more smooth,
sustained like energy throughout the day. Whereas if you're like
(37:49):
super anxious all the time, like you know, you're kind
of burning your energy. And so you know, when people
say it gives them energy, it's not like it's you know,
doing something like super special to the mitochondria to increase
ATP or anything like that. It's just that it's helping
you calm down, so you're probably not burning off as much.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
No, I love it. This is so clarifying, Mike, and
I just yeah, I just really wanted to thank you
for for clarifying some of this. We're we're up against it.
And just because I know you've got a good finger
on the pulse. I know this is going to seem
like a very random question.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
But what any like.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
New approaches to health for you these days, Like, like
any anything that you're excited about that you that you've
been exploring. Like some people might be sawn on, some
people will be uh because I mean hearing you talking
about mitochondria and stuff like, I feel like you have
a finger on the pulse. But any anything that emerging
(38:56):
for you in your in your life currently.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Yeah, a few things coming out actually, so sunlight and
light I've been studying like crazy, so I'm happy to
chat about that. And then yeah, like metochondre health, been
studying a lot as well. And like I had doctor
Casey Means on my on my podcast, we uh we
talked a little bit about you know, mitochondrial health, and
(39:20):
you know, I've been studying that, but maybe I will
just just chat about light first and then we can
chat about mitochondre health if that's what you can show
on light.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
So I'm I'm wondering if you could do maybe dive
a little bit in the mitochondria.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Actually sure, sure, So metochondre you know, we know that's
sort of like someone is like the powerhouse cell or
you know, the powerhouse of our cells that generate atp
and so you know, you want to do anything you
can to you know, make sure that you mitochondra are
functioning optimally. And you also want to make sure that
you're not doing anything detrimental that disrupts your mitochondrial functioning.
(39:57):
And so you know, if you are someone who's you know,
looking to increase energy, and you haven't looked into mitochondrial function,
like this is something that you you could do. And
so with like behavioral things that you can do, like
zone two cardio has actually been shown to help with
mitochondrial function. And I've also seen you know, doctor Ronda
(40:19):
Patrick recently talk about you know, high intensity cardio can
help with mitochondria as well. So you know, it seems
like getting a mix of the two seems to be
pretty good. And so you know, how does that look
like for my routine? So you know, in seven days,
sometimes I get an MMA just once, sometimes it's twice,
(40:40):
and so for that time, you know, there's not too
much you know, low activity. I'm going pretty hard, you
know during those sessions. But when I'm not doing that,
what I do is I just walk on the treadmill.
I put it at the incline at twelve, I put
it on three point three, and then I go for
about forty six or forty seven minutes, ends up being
(41:01):
two and a half miles. I burn five hundred calories.
And you know, that's the way I incorporated into my routine.
And in general what I do is like I'll do
weights one day and cardio the next day, like more
or less. And in the days that I do my MMA,
I just count that as like a cardio day essentially.
(41:21):
But coming back to other things that can help with mitochondria.
So we got cardio. I won't get into it too
much because you said you just did a podcast on it,
but red light can help. Red light and near infrared
light so photobio modulation, and so it's usually from about
six hundred to a thousand nanometers. Is sort of like
(41:41):
the optical windows, so to speak. And so that's why
a lot of these, you know, red lights have they
usually have one, like the red light panels. They'll have
like one and around like six sixty or six fifty
something like that, which is just the red light which
you can visibly see, and then there's the near infrared
light which you can't see, which also penetrates the mitochondria,
(42:03):
which also penetrates deeper. And so once they reach the mitochondria,
they both do the exact same thing, but the near
infrared light does get in deeper and it does seem
to be able to do more overall. So those are
kind of like some some things you can do to
help and also to as we know sleep. You know,
(42:23):
if you don't sleep, everything kind of goes haywire. So
you know, there's a there's a few things that you
can do to kind of minimize it. Minimize alcohol consumption
as well. You know, I'm not saying never, you know,
on Friday and Saturday, you know, sometimes I have a
couple of drinks, I don't you don't have anymore just
because I don't like the way it makes it feel.
I don't want to be productive the next day and
that kind of thing. But you know, make sure that
(42:44):
you're not doing things to damage and mitochondria before I
look at certain medications as well, you like, unfortunately, like
statins you know, have been linked to like some mitochondrial dysfunction.
You know, so you know you do have to be
careful with that. And then you know, there are quite
a few supplements that can help with mitochondrial function. Uh
(43:06):
so doctor Casey means, and I went through these, uh
you know, quite extensively on my podcast. So alcar or
acetyl l carnitine that can be pretty helpful overall. There's
one called eurolithin A, which is a new one. There's
a meta analysis on that recently which was not like
(43:26):
overwhelmingly positive, but still show that it could improve mitochondrial health.
What other what else can improve mitochondria health?
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Can? I ask Michael, like, do people if you improve
your mitochondrial health, Like, do people feel any different? Or
is it more like a longevity like efficiency with energy perspective?
Like what do you like? Do you feel different?
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Yeah? Like some people can feel different literally after taking
like mitochondri Optimized. There's like literally like the first you know,
within like an hour of taking it, they can feel
like they're like their brain is kind of like turned on.
So you know, it's almost like a daily nootropic to
help with your overall energy and vitality. And so you know,
(44:17):
I think that it's something that you know, can be
used over the long term. And you know, anything that
optimizes your mitochondria is going to help with their energy
and like to answer a question like yes, like you're
going to have like more energy to do things, like
to do whatever that you want to do. Like I
do think that is like an untapped resource for some
people for just improving overall energy and health. But again,
(44:40):
like it's just one thing. Like if you take all
these stepplents, do all this stuff, but you don't sleep well,
you're still not going to feel energetic. You know, if
you sleep well and take all these stopplents, but your
testosterones in the boots, you know, you're still not going
to feel energetic. So you know, there's so many different
things that contribute to energy overall, and mitochondri health is
(45:02):
just one of the ones, but it is one that
maybe has been neglected and that a lot of people
could probably improve upon.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Yeah, yeah, this is great because this is, like almost
everything we've talked about today a bit of a mystery
to me, but it's it's great to hear. Well, uh,
this will be version two. Mike will come, we'll come
back on and maybe uh we'll get into the light
stuff a little bit more too. But awesome having you
like you're just I don't know, I feel like you're
(45:31):
all over my I G feed and my x feed.
You just seem to be like on top of everything.
Where can people get a hold of you?
Speaker 3 (45:38):
Well, they can get a hold of me on Twitter, Instagram.
It's doctor Mike Hart on all of this, so it's
just d R M I K E H A R T.
I also have my own podcast called Heart Heart, where
they can they can find me there, so yes, you know,
put in my name online you should be able to
find out a little bit about me pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Amazing, right, Yeah, and the podcast is glorious. We made
a couple of occurrences on that Bad Boy. It's uh,
I didn't really doctor means is on it' that's a
beast of a fine but keep up the great work,
my friend, and you're making this all real. Proud fellow
Canadian folks, thank you, brother dog you zil. If you
(46:21):
enjoyed that, please leave us any comments at quodcast nine
nine at gmail dot com. I want to thank our
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Speaker 3 (49:06):
Talk real soon, peace.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
I remember seeing you when spaghetti strappy napsack hells up
by your back. When I've seen it, I was like,
damn girl, so.
Speaker 3 (49:16):
You have a man, buddy.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
No Radio, no problem. Stream is live on Saga ninety
sixty am dot c
The views expressed in the following program are those of
the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of
Saga nine sixty am or its management. My music ha
ha ha, sure I do.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm from the street.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Sweare to frocast Nation.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We got a special guest today, doctor Mike Hart. He
is a specialist when it comes to cannabis, and we
learn a lot on this topic. And as you'll hear
my ignorance on this episode, there's a lot that we
needed to unpack because to me, this is a bit
(00:45):
of a mysterious area. You hear about these CBD to
THC the ratios. Is it good for sleep? Is it
good for anxiety? Is it good for PTSD? Are you
going to be reliant on it? Are you gonna be hooked?
Are you going to be uh you know stone based
on which ratios you're taking? Like so many questions and
(01:05):
Mike clarifies all of this, and he's fantastic. He's a podcaster,
fellow Canadian out of London. He's got huge social media
following links in the show notes. But yeah, this is
a very informative episode. So before jumping into it, we're
(01:26):
gonna hear a quick word from our sponsors. First off,
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Last one I want to mention is our twenty eight
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So we created a twenty eight day reboot course to
(03:16):
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That's twenty eight day Reboot dot co. All right, folks,
without further ado. Doctor Mike Hart Cannabis specialist, physician, freaking
(03:42):
beast of a man too. I haven't met you in
the flesh, but you look like you're jacked as all held.
But Mike, welcome to the show. Thank you so much
for having me here.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Brother. I'll try to live off to that introduction, but
we'll see what happens. Okay. Oh man, it's.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Been like we've got to know each other for a
bit now, and it's funny that we've never met in
the flesh, but it's I feel like we're cut from
the same cloth, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
One hundred percent, man, one hundred percent. And we'll definitely
make it happen in the flesh at some point. You know,
got just all the way in Ottawa. I'm in London,
so we're probably about eight hours away or something like that. Yeah,
but we'll have to make it happen someday. I'm sure
we'll meet up in too or something like that.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Exactly exactly. So we're going to talk about something that
is we've never covered in the five years of having
this podcast, is the landscape of cannabis. And maybe even
before we start, Mike like, how did you get into
that space?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, sure, I can. I can't answer that question. So
you know, initially, you know, the reason why I got
into it was because there was a lot of people
coming to me that couldn't sleep well. You know, that
was kind of the big thing. And they were using
drugs like you know, zopa, clone, trazodone, Sarah. Like, there's
there's lots of different ones out there. And I'm not
(05:02):
saying that, you know, those medications aren't effective for some people.
For some people they're incredibly effective. They're they're life savers.
But other people want other options, you know, and some people,
you know, they just have an aversion I guess to pharmaceuticals.
So I'm not one of those people, like you know,
I think that you should just make your decision based
(05:23):
upon you know, risks and benefits. And sometimes there are
some pharmaceuticals to take when you know, the risks do
out weigh the benefits. But you know, some people really
just want to try something natural and they want to
have something that's you know, non pharmaceutical based. And so
that was kind of the big reasons a lot of
people were not sleeping well and sometimes not getting the
(05:44):
results that they want it With the prescription drugs that
I just mentioned, I mean, obviously there's other ones as well,
but those are kind of probably the big three that
I just I just mentioned, And so because of that,
you know, I wanted to be able to offer something else.
And I knew that, you know, using cannabis can be
effective for sleep. You know, I had not used cannabis
(06:07):
like medicinally at that point in my life, like I
had used it, Like I was certainly not like a
like by any means of the stretch imagination, like a
pothead by any like when I was in high school
or university. Like it was just like, you know, if
my friends had it on the weekend, like I might
kind of use it with them sort of thing, but
(06:27):
I wouldn't didn't have it like on me all the
time or anything like that. But you know, I had
used it, and other people I know had used it,
you know, for sleep, like successfully. So it was something
I wanted to offer to patience. And so I started
practicing twenty thirteen, and then in twenty fourteen, Right at
the beginning of twenty fourteen was when they introduced this
MMPR program where it kind of became easier for physicians
(06:51):
to prescribe cannabis because at that point, the only way
in Canada you could prescribe cannabis is that basically have
someone grow it for you or you could grow at yourself.
And so it was a little bit cumbersome and kind
of difficult and how to manage, and you couldn't order
things like CBD oil and that kind of thing now.
And so from there, I you know, delved into that
(07:13):
program and just had a lot of success with people
who really struggled a lot with sleep. But it is
used for you know, so many different you know, conditions
right now. And uh, you know, when people think of cannabis,
they think of THC, and I understand that because you know,
that's what you know, people use in high school and
university to you know, get high. But there's so many
(07:36):
other cannabinoids that are incredibly effective, and we can certainly
chat about those today. But you know, basically, you know,
the roundabout answer was, I just knew that there was,
you know, some treatment like like cannabis was a good
treatment for some of these conditions that people have, particularly
with insomnia, but certainly for chronic pain and sometimes for
(07:58):
anxiety as well. But like I said that, I'm totally
willing though to talk about the negatives of tcs today
as well, and I think that we should discuss that
at some point to have like a full discussion about it.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
We'll be right back on Solved Healthcare Radio with doctor
Mike Hart.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Stream us live at SAGA nine sixty am dot c A.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
We are back on Solved Healthcare Radio with doctor Mike
I got I'm just going in a bit naive, like
I hear a lot about many of these benefits, sleep,
some chronic pain. We see it a bit of my
wearing my pietive care hat. But the effectiveness the other
indications I think are a bit of a mystery. And
(09:08):
I think a lot of people also worry about if
there's like some chronic side effects or long term of
impacts of you. So maybe at a high level mic
like we could just cover where you think people would
get benefit and then also not to load the question
too much, but if and are these impacts mostly from
(09:34):
a cannabinoid perspective, wars it some of those impacts related
to THHC. This is to me a bit of a
mystery too.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Yeah, So why don't we maybe chat about, you know,
a couple of different cannabinoids. I think that may just
make the discussion a little bit easier. So, see, we
know is the one that gets people high and it
does have some you know, therapeutic benefits, but it also
has a lot of drawbacks as well. And so the
therapeutic benefits that people get is, like I said, for
(10:05):
some people that can really help them with sleep, for
some people that really help them with pain control as well,
and so those are sort of like the bigger ones.
And a lot of people too do find it helpful
for anxiety. But you do have to be careful with
that because if you do use high TC cannabis all
the time, which I don't advise to do, eventually you
(10:26):
will develop a dependency on it and you're going to
need more and more THC to get the same effect. So,
you know, I really think that TC should be used
really methodically, So you should be measuring and you should
be knowing exactly how much you use, how much cannabis
are using, Like I don't like the answer when someone says,
you know, I'll use like two or three joints a day, Like,
(10:48):
I don't know what that really means, because I don't
know how much you know cannabis is the needs joint.
I don't know what the percentage of TC is any
showing I don't know if they're putting CBD in that
with it. So there's a lot of different you know,
things that can you know, impact the way someone can
can use cannabis, right, and so you want to use uh,
(11:08):
you want to know exactly how you are using it.
And so TAC, like I said, is the one that
can get people high. But let's talk a little bit
about CBD as well. So CBD is non intoxicating cannabinoid,
so it's not going to get you high. A lot
of people also find this to be incredibly effective for sleep.
They also find it to be helpful for anxiety, and
(11:30):
they also find it to be helpful for muscle spasms
and for pain. I find with multiple scross As patients,
actually that's almost like their number one drug for muscle
spasms is CBD. It's very very effective for that. And
then coming back to the other indications, so you know sleep,
you know, I mentioned now several times, so some people
(11:51):
will can get away with just using CBD only for sleep,
and some people will need a little bit of TC
with the CBD to help them sleep at night. And
what I'll say about using the combination is that you're
less likely to develop a tolerance to THC if you're
using more of a higher CBD content. So say if
(12:12):
you use you know, ten milligrams of THC on your own,
and then eventually you may need to use fifteen, twenty thirty,
they may just keep going up. But I find that
with a lot of my patients that they use say
like ten milligrams of CBD and then say only five
milligrams of CBD maybe in that combination, and sometimes you
do need to move you know a little bit up.
(12:33):
But if you use a combination where it's more favored
in the CBD than the THC, then you're less likely
to get to dealt the dependence or tolerance to it.
And then the other aspect of that there is that
you know you're getting the benefits of both those cannabinoids
and so and just going back to you know, TC
(12:55):
for a second, and how you know that works so
for sleep in particular, like for people who have nightmares,
like veterans. You know, she has been shown to be helpful,
and there actually is a medication if you can get
a shopper's drug mate around any pharmacy in Canada called nabylone,
and nabylone is basically just teach in a pill form
(13:15):
now doesn't have all the other cannabinoids and terpenes in it.
So a lot of the you know, cannabis purists, you know,
don't really think that it's you know, a good medicine
in some ways. But regardless of what other people think,
if you do look at some trials of using nablon
with the patients of PTSD, it does help reduce nightmares. Now,
(13:36):
the issue there is like some people will say that
a cane reduce REM sleep. And so I've asked you know,
doctor Ethan Russo, who's sort of like the godfather cannabis.
I asked him about this in my podcast and he said, like,
you know, the reduction in REM sleep is so incremental
that like it's not really much to worry about, you know.
(13:56):
That being said, you know, if you are worried about it,
you know, you can use one of these trackers like
or our whoop or anything like that to see if
it's you know, making a difference. And again, you know,
that just comes back to being more aware and being
careful about how you're using it and being methodical with it.
So you know, if you can have something you know
to track it, then that would be beneficial. And then
(14:18):
you'll really know for sure. And then the other thing
with THC with regards to pain control is so you know,
I talked about as CBD can be effective for muscle spasms,
and CBD is more of like an anti inflammatory, so
it's helpful for like repetitive injuries and that kind of thing.
It's not as helpful unfortunately for neuropathic pain sometimes, so
(14:40):
like diabetic neuropathy, you know, numbness and tingling sciatica, these
kinds of things. So the way THHC works is that
it kind of blocks a signal that goes, say from
your knee to your brain, that telling that tells you
that you're in pain. So a lot of my patients
will say that, you know, they can kind of still
feel the pain a little bit, but it just doesn't
(15:00):
bother them, and they will report that, you know, overall,
can have a pretty drastic reduction. Like some people it
may only be you know, ten to twenty percent, but
for some people it could be like eighty percent to
one hundred percent. So you know, a lot of different
ways that it can it can help. And then you know,
coming back to the anxiety component, so you know, I'm
(15:21):
well aware of the fact that you know, if someone
who is a naive TC user you know, consumes TCHC,
then it will increase your heart rate and it may
make you feel paranoid, and it may make you, you know,
feel uncomfortable and like you have like you're having an
unpleasant experience. So you do have to be comfortable with that. So,
(15:42):
you know, that's why I always suggest to people that
you know, to try CBD initially because it's a non
intoxicating cannabinoid. And then if you want to add and
you know, TATC later, do it very very incrementally and
you can get you know, two and a half milligram
pills and that would be you know, a very good
starting dose for a lot of people to introduce. And
(16:03):
just one thing that I wanted to mention there too,
So I advise against smoking cannabis. Like, you know, don't
smoke cannabis. You should try to, you know, use it
through an oral form. It's definitely best, you know, second best,
you know, would be vaping. But you know, again, vaping
is just less harmful than smoking, and it just doesn't
(16:26):
mean that it has you know, no risks at all,
and there could still be some you know, acute lung
injury risk with it, so you do have to be
a little bit careful with that. So I would advise using,
you know, more of the oral form and then also
making sure that you're you know, being methodical about your
dose is and that you know exactly how much you use,
(16:47):
so you know, if you're going to use cannabis medicinally,
treat it like another medicine. Like treat it like the
medicines that you have in your medicine cabinet, where you
know exactly how much is any dose and you know
exactly how much to take each day. You know, that's
the way that it should be done properly. That's the
way to use it medicinal.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
We'll be right back on Solving Healthcare Radio with doctor
Mike Hart. Out of the night, into the water. We
push the boat from shore, breaking the air and the
stillness of the vain.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
No radio, No problem stream is live on SAGA ninety
sixty AM, dot C A Run AM Jewels Fast Run
and one Dam Jewels Fast Run and the Slow Mo.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
We are back on Solving Healthcare Radio with doctor Mike Hart. Incredible,
that's a beautiful summary. I's all like I'm four years old. Mike,
the reason to add THHC then for for folks, so
say whether you're gonna highlight sleep, pain or anxiety, it
(18:00):
sounds like there's a different Like in terms of the pain,
there's a different area that it's packing like more and
more improvement from a neuropathic perspective, as you mentioned. But
in terms of the other stuff, whether it's sleep or anxiety,
is there a reason to tell yourself, yes, I'll need
to add some THC.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
I wouldn't add THC unless you need to. You know,
like if you can get away with just using CBD,
then just used CBD. You know, don't add in something
that you know could potentially you know, get you, you know,
addicted to something you know. You only want to add
it in if you feel like the risks are going
to outweigh the benefits. And you know, when you're like
(18:40):
a veteran who's you know, been overseas and you've come over,
you know, back to Canada and you can't sleep and
you're just kind of going crazy, then obviously, you know,
using a little bit of THC to help calm you down,
to help you sleep throughout the night, you know, is
going to be beneficial for you and then in that instance,
you know, the benefits will outweigh the risks. But even
(19:00):
in that you know instance, you want to be methodical
with it. You know, you don't just want to like
smoke high t sea weed and you know kind of
like hope for the best, you know. And I'm not
saying that like you have to go to you know,
a doctor or anything like that. But you know, when
you do go to a doctor, hopefully they'll be a
little bit more methodical and tell you how to use
(19:21):
it properly and how to use it mediictally in certain
specific dosages. And so you know, like I said, if
you can stay away from TAC, then you know, stay
away from it, but if you are going to add
it in, do it very incrementally. And like I said,
you know, there's plenty of you know, two and a
half milligram tablets out there, and that dose seems to
(19:42):
be you know, incredibly helpful for for for a lot
of people, and it doesn't cause generally any intoxicating effects.
So even if you you know, haven't used to see
before and you take two and a half milligrams, I'm
not saying you'll have zero psychoactive effect. But it'll be
fairly animal overall.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
And you mentioned a couple of the side effects or
things of concern. Do you want to go through some
of the other areas that make you anxious or people
should be aware of in terms of that they're going
to explore taking a cannabinoid.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Yeah, I mean again, like I'm really only concerned about
you know, TC in terms of like an addictive type
of property, like the other cannabinoids. Like I did mention CBD,
but some people you know may have been are asking
themselves why you know I haven't mentioned things like CBN
or CBG, And I can talk about those you know
(20:40):
a little bit as well, because as I think, that's
help with the discussion. So you know, CBD, as I mentioned,
is sort of like the one that a lot of
people are very very aware of now, And I guess
and as I mentioned earlier, you know, it helps a
lot with anxiety, can help with sleep, help with pain control,
help with muscles, basms. You can even help kids you
(21:02):
know who have seizures. Lots of people are you know
listening to this has probably seen the Sander Gupta documentaries
on CNN that he put out starting maybe like ten
years ago, I think they were literally just called like weed.
We'd one, we two, we three put out a few
of them. But you know, it can be helpful for
those for those for those types of of kids who
(21:23):
you know have irretractable seizures. But maybe even you know
more so, Matt, I think one underrated uh place or
one underutilized place is probably in children who have behavioral disorders,
So kids with like autism, and you know kids even
with just like with anxiety and with with depression and
(21:43):
with ADHD. You know a lot of in my opinion,
you know, trying CBD first before like an s SRI
I for someone like that is in my opinion, you know,
safer and likely well probably induce better results in many
in many ways as well. And so I think that
(22:04):
like for you know, kids who are and because you know,
I I'll admit, like I don't really prescribe you know,
SSRIs and that kind of thing to like team to
like teens and you know, adolescents and kids because and
it's outside of kind of like my scope of practice. Anyway,
if someone want to do that, I would refer them
(22:24):
to to a pediatrician or maybe a psychiatrist. But you know,
I think that there is an opportunity or a way
for people to utilize CBD for a lot of these kids,
you know, instead of putting them on stimulants are instead
of putting them on an SSRI. You know, I think
that using CBD may be more effective. And you know,
talking about you know, the developing brain, and I completely
(22:46):
agree that you shouldn't be using you know, high teac cannabis,
especially before the age of like twenty one, but probably
even twenty five before u you know, your brain is
fully developed. But you know what effects are these ssri
and you know, all these amphetamines having on kids as well,
you know, during that age group. So you know, I'd
like to see some some data on that as well.
(23:08):
And you know, that has to be impacting the brain
at some level. You know, CBD seems to be a
little bit less benign. So I think that you know,
introducing that into having that as more of like a
mainstream kind of medicine or accept it for that age
group would be helpful. And then but I didn't mention,
you know, the other connabloids I was going to get into.
(23:29):
So CBG is kind of bigger all So that's another cannabinoid,
and that's very interesting. It was actually a study done recently,
maybe just two to three months ago. One of the
authors on was doctor Ziva Koopa, who I know a
little bit, and she administered twenty milligrams of CBG and
this is two healthy volunteers and they had better verbal
(23:53):
memory at the end of the study and decreased and
anxiety and just overall better performance. So, you know, I
think that you know, there's other cannabinoids that are you know,
on the way that can also be extremely helpful for people.
And even now you know, you can get CBG. It
is commercially available, like through various different licensed producers on
(24:16):
the on the Canadian websites, you know, even through like
o c S you can get CBG oil. It's often
actually used in combination with CBD. And so some people
you know then ask, okay, well, what's you know better,
you know, CBD or CBG. And so they have some
overlapping but distinct mechanisms of action that are that are
(24:38):
actually a little bit different. So c b D mostly
acts we think on the five H T one A receptor,
but CBG also has some drenergic component to it as well,
and so because of that, you know, it seems to
help a little bit further even with anxiety in a
in a different mechanism, in a different way. And so
(24:59):
you know that extremely exciting and extremely helpful for a
lot of people. And like I said, not even for
people who have anxiety. You could almost look at as
like a nootropic or something to take like before even
something like this like a podcast to just like you know,
improve your verbal memory or your verbal fluency. Right, I
(25:20):
should have taken it before this one. But yeah, and
then the other one I mentioned too, so CBN, So
a lot of people are using this one for sleep.
You know, Doctor Ethan Russo indicated to me that he
thought it was a little bit overhyped, and we don't
have too too much data on it right now in
(25:42):
terms of like randomized control control trials and so most
of the end of the evidence on that is a
lot of like anecdotal stuff. But most people use CBN
for sleep. And so you know, these are just like
four cannabinoids that were kind of talking about. They say
there could be like eighty to one hundred in cannabis,
(26:03):
which is like crazy, so like there's going to be
more and more coming out the one that's like super
exciting or I don't know why it hasn't been developed
more commercially because you know, I think it would be
very successful. So it's called TCV and SOCV yeah THCV,
(26:26):
so just tc with with a V at the end
of it. And so that was shown in a study,
like a randomized control trial in twenty sixteen to reduce hunger.
And so you know, we know how popular ozentpic is
and so you know, it's just kind of strange that
this has become commercially available or hasn't been really like
isolated where you could get like you know, TCV oil.
(26:49):
But from my understanding, like I've chatted with a couple
like growers and stuff like that, and you know, I'm
just a doctor. I'm not like a grower. I don't know,
like you know, how to grow cannabis and you even
if it's possible. But people kind of have mentioned to
me that with TCV it's just like harder to extract
for some reason. So I don't know, but I mean
(27:11):
someone's eventually going to figure it out. I mean they
got to, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Yeah, No, that's a nice summary because to me, once again,
a lot of this has been just like a mystery.
So a couple of questions that just going back a
little bit, so with the kids, is there data to
support that I'm just because this is like a first
for me, like in terms of utilizing it for some
(27:36):
of the mood disorders and so forth.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Is yeah, So there's there's definitely data on I mean,
we have epidolics, say for like seizure control and that
kind of thing. And then there is you know, some
data as well. There's only like a few trials that
indicate that, you know, when you give it to kids
who have autism, they have improved behavioral control. And then
there's is some studies indicating that you know, when you
(28:00):
give it to adolescence, it's me safe and effective as
well for things like anxiety. So there is you know,
some evidence on it. I do think that you know,
we do need like more robust evidence for sure, but overall,
like we have, you know, some scientific evidence, we have
you know, quite a bit of anecdotal evidence. And then
(28:21):
the other third thing component of this is you know,
when you compare CBD to some of the other things
that you would give, it just seems to be a
lot a lot more safe, you know, and so.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Really like with the with the youth, there didn't seem
to be any like as far as you know, like
any long term implications of like just CPD.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
No, not not at all, Like I mean now, like again,
like if you look at something like SSRIs, like a
lot of doctors will probably tell you, you know, the same
thing that like, you know, giving it to kids, there's
no long term side effects and that kind of thing.
You know, I don't necessarily know if I agree with
that statement, so some people you know may push back
(29:07):
and say the same thing to me about CBD. But
in terms of like the studies that you know, I've seen,
at least in the short term, it seems to be
you know, very very well tolerated, very safe. And then
the other part too that I should mention too, they
have done studies where they've you know, given people like
a decent dose of CBD, like I think in the
range is like one hundred and fifty milligrams a day
(29:29):
for you know, a few weeks, and then just abruptly
stopped it and there was no withdrawal effects. And so
that's important to know. But the other part of that
too is that like you know, I say there's no
withdrawal effects, and that's and that's true. But if you
take CBD and then it makes you feel better and
you're less anxious, you're more social, you don't just feel
(29:50):
better overall, and then you stop taking it, you know,
you'll return to baseline, right, so you you won't get
the effects of it anywhere. But that's not withdrawing from it.
That's just you know, returning to baseline. So sometimes people
can get you know, confused with that. You know, you
know what I mean. So it is something to kind
of consider.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
And when it comes to like when I look and
look back at some of my friends in high school
that were heavy users, they had the you know, the
they had the munchies, they seemed to be a motivated,
like they really didn't seem to want to get going
with life. Is that the THC component or CBD or
(30:31):
what what? What part of the cannibal cannab anoids is
that part of well?
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I think mostly like laziness is mostly just from like
your own personality and like a choice for the most part,
am I in my opinion, like cannabis can can make
you high, but like you know, and if you find
that you know, getting high makes you lazy, then you
can say, you know, cannabis makes you lazy for sure.
But you know there's other people like you know, SNeW
(31:00):
Dog and whiskally if it seemed to be working sixteen
hours a day, who are constantly high all the time,
who are doing okay. But you know that's not everyone.
And I you know, don't advise against that. And I
just don't like the idea of being you know, dependent
upon anything. And you know, I'm from the same boat.
Like I can think of people in my high school
who you know, smoked pot when they were you know, teenagers,
(31:22):
and it kind of seemed like it mess them up forever.
They never really you know, got going again. And so
you know again like you have to be really careful
about using this when you're you know, under twenty five,
especially when you're under you know, twenty one years old.
But you know, in terms of like the uh, the
like the laziest component and all that kind of stuff,
(31:42):
Like if you look at all like every single study,
like literally every single study that shows that cannabis users
have lower BMIs than non cannabis users. Like the last
time I looked, I think there was nine different studies
and they all showed the same thing, and so you know,
what's the reason for that, Like, you know, I'm not
(32:03):
entirely sure, you know, Uh, some people have these these
interesting theories on it. Like there's one on on PubMed
where it thinks that if you're using high t see
that this is sort of an odd one. It says
that like basically it fixes the omega three to omega
six ratio somehow, and so because of that, you know,
(32:25):
people are less inflamed and they're able to you know,
carry on and live healthier lives. But and then some
people think that there may be like a slight like
healthy user bias to it. Like I don't know if
that's you know, true or not, because I know lots
of people with smoke pot who are healthy, but I
know lots of people smoke powder aren't healthy too. So
(32:47):
you know, I'm kind of I don't know if I
buy the healthy user bias one or not. But yeah,
something that we need to need to kind of tease
out because if you look at the literature, like it
basically says again that like can users always have lower
BMIs than non canvas users.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
And but I'm sorry the the the quote unquote munchies
for different forgive me for lack of a better word.
Is that is that a THC thing or is it
a like CBD thing that's a THC thing. That's the
thing thing. Yeah, I'm a little bit.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I haven't reviewed this too much recently, but I think
it's it's the increase in grilling that it does that
makes your uh, you know, that's that's a as you know,
a you know, signal to your body then to start
eating more. And so you know, we know that that exists.
I'm not saying that the monkey doesn't exist. It definitely,
it definitely exists. And if you're someone who's sensitive to that,
(33:45):
you know, you gotta be careful with it because obviously
over eating has a lot of a lot of consequences.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Be right back on Solid Healthcare Radio with doctor Mike Hart.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Better do your time and grown up. The sew be
grown up.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Then I take the totally thing hopefully it's so news
take a take streamers live at SAGA nine sixty am,
dot C.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Up Bill with Israelies, Wrap the Babius job Box.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
We are back on Solid Healthcare Radio with up Mic.
So what I'm hearing though, Mike, is that a lot.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Of the the associations that we had as at least
when I was younger.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
With with cannabis is a lot of it was related
to teach seed. Now that I'm hearing this, it's like
the high.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
The.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Giggles and munchies like that, and so like that's a
lot different than taking some CBD or derivative of CBD
in terms of implications. So this is like, I know,
maybe I'm sound like a bit ignorant to a lot
of people, but this is very enlightening to me because
(35:05):
you know, it's that landscape, especially as uh, like I mean,
I have some credentials for this, but I found it
very challenging to work through because like you hear about
these ratios, you hear about these uh you know, you
know something only has CBD, it doesn't have THC. So
(35:25):
like I think that to me, Mike, this has been
this is super super clarifying. And so just a couple
of questions about some of the other versions. So when
you mentioned the CBG you said, you know, to improve memory.
It showed that it could improve memory. Is that something
that would people would take during the day, Like, because
(35:46):
like if I took CBD during the day or I'll
say CBG. Now would I be sleepy? Well, you know
what I mean, Like, wouldn't that affect like my alertness.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Generally No, So if you use a low dose of TC,
I know, it's odd that like, okay, some people are
taking the same thing during the day and that they're
using to sleep at night. And so you know, if
you take a low dose of CBD, it seems to
be a little bit activating, but if you take higher doses,
then it seems to be a little bit more sedating.
And so you know, and like you know, what's the
(36:22):
dose for people? You know, that varies so much, and
so I usually tell people though, to start with about
ten to twenty milligrams and see how that goes. I
find that when people use those kinds of doses, they
don't get sleepy. But yeah, that would be the only
you know, or I guess sort of the biggest side
effect from CBDU would potentially be sleepiness. But like I said,
(36:45):
it's it's it's very low unless you're going like higher doses,
you know what I mean, Like it's like, you know,
twenty milligrams, Like I would compare it maybe to what
like no no data on this kind of you know, spitball,
but maybe something like acting or clariton, like, you know,
those things aren't really supposed to make you tired because
you know, they're they're they're H one and or their
(37:06):
H two antagonists, I forget now which one is, you know,
so they don't make you tired, right, And so for
most people they find that, you know, use using low
doses will not make them, not make them tired. And
for some people it almost you know, I don't want
to say it gives them energy, like it doesn't increase
atp or anything like that. But what happens is that
(37:28):
if you're super anxious, you're always kind of like you know,
burning your energy sort of thing, you know, and then
eventually you can, you know, feel tired. But if you
can kind of just like eliminate that anxiousness, then you
can just feel more like smooth, you know, and then
that just kind of gives you like a more smooth,
sustained like energy throughout the day. Whereas if you're like
(37:49):
super anxious all the time, like you know, you're kind
of burning your energy. And so you know, when people
say it gives them energy, it's not like it's you know,
doing something like super special to the mitochondria to increase
ATP or anything like that. It's just that it's helping
you calm down, so you're probably not burning off as much.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
No, I love it. This is so clarifying, Mike, and
I just yeah, I just really wanted to thank you
for for clarifying some of this. We're we're up against it.
And just because I know you've got a good finger
on the pulse. I know this is going to seem
like a very random question.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
But what any like.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
New approaches to health for you these days, Like, like
any anything that you're excited about that you that you've
been exploring. Like some people might be sawn on, some
people will be uh because I mean hearing you talking
about mitochondria and stuff like, I feel like you have
a finger on the pulse. But any anything that emerging
(38:56):
for you in your in your life currently.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Yeah, a few things coming out actually, so sunlight and
light I've been studying like crazy, so I'm happy to
chat about that. And then yeah, like metochondre health, been
studying a lot as well. And like I had doctor
Casey Means on my on my podcast, we uh we
talked a little bit about you know, mitochondrial health, and
(39:20):
you know, I've been studying that, but maybe I will
just just chat about light first and then we can
chat about mitochondre health if that's what you can show
on light.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
So I'm I'm wondering if you could do maybe dive
a little bit in the mitochondria.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Actually sure, sure, So metochondre you know, we know that's
sort of like someone is like the powerhouse cell or
you know, the powerhouse of our cells that generate atp
and so you know, you want to do anything you
can to you know, make sure that you mitochondra are
functioning optimally. And you also want to make sure that
you're not doing anything detrimental that disrupts your mitochondrial functioning.
(39:57):
And so you know, if you are someone who's you know,
looking to increase energy, and you haven't looked into mitochondrial function,
like this is something that you you could do. And
so with like behavioral things that you can do, like
zone two cardio has actually been shown to help with
mitochondrial function. And I've also seen you know, doctor Ronda
(40:19):
Patrick recently talk about you know, high intensity cardio can
help with mitochondria as well. So you know, it seems
like getting a mix of the two seems to be
pretty good. And so you know, how does that look
like for my routine? So you know, in seven days,
sometimes I get an MMA just once, sometimes it's twice,
(40:40):
and so for that time, you know, there's not too
much you know, low activity. I'm going pretty hard, you
know during those sessions. But when I'm not doing that,
what I do is I just walk on the treadmill.
I put it at the incline at twelve, I put
it on three point three, and then I go for
about forty six or forty seven minutes, ends up being
(41:01):
two and a half miles. I burn five hundred calories.
And you know, that's the way I incorporated into my routine.
And in general what I do is like I'll do
weights one day and cardio the next day, like more
or less. And in the days that I do my MMA,
I just count that as like a cardio day essentially.
(41:21):
But coming back to other things that can help with mitochondria.
So we got cardio. I won't get into it too
much because you said you just did a podcast on it,
but red light can help. Red light and near infrared
light so photobio modulation, and so it's usually from about
six hundred to a thousand nanometers. Is sort of like
(41:41):
the optical windows, so to speak. And so that's why
a lot of these, you know, red lights have they
usually have one, like the red light panels. They'll have
like one and around like six sixty or six fifty
something like that, which is just the red light which
you can visibly see, and then there's the near infrared
light which you can't see, which also penetrates the mitochondria,
(42:03):
which also penetrates deeper. And so once they reach the mitochondria,
they both do the exact same thing, but the near
infrared light does get in deeper and it does seem
to be able to do more overall. So those are
kind of like some some things you can do to
help and also to as we know sleep. You know,
(42:23):
if you don't sleep, everything kind of goes haywire. So
you know, there's a there's a few things that you
can do to kind of minimize it. Minimize alcohol consumption
as well. You know, I'm not saying never, you know,
on Friday and Saturday, you know, sometimes I have a
couple of drinks, I don't you don't have anymore just
because I don't like the way it makes it feel.
I don't want to be productive the next day and
that kind of thing. But you know, make sure that
(42:44):
you're not doing things to damage and mitochondria before I
look at certain medications as well, you like, unfortunately, like
statins you know, have been linked to like some mitochondrial dysfunction.
You know, so you know you do have to be
careful with that. And then you know, there are quite
a few supplements that can help with mitochondrial function. Uh
(43:06):
so doctor Casey means, and I went through these, uh
you know, quite extensively on my podcast. So alcar or
acetyl l carnitine that can be pretty helpful overall. There's
one called eurolithin A, which is a new one. There's
a meta analysis on that recently which was not like
(43:26):
overwhelmingly positive, but still show that it could improve mitochondrial health.
What other what else can improve mitochondria health?
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Can? I ask Michael, like, do people if you improve
your mitochondrial health, Like, do people feel any different? Or
is it more like a longevity like efficiency with energy perspective?
Like what do you like? Do you feel different?
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Yeah? Like some people can feel different literally after taking
like mitochondri Optimized. There's like literally like the first you know,
within like an hour of taking it, they can feel
like they're like their brain is kind of like turned on.
So you know, it's almost like a daily nootropic to
help with your overall energy and vitality. And so you know,
(44:17):
I think that it's something that you know, can be
used over the long term. And you know, anything that
optimizes your mitochondria is going to help with their energy
and like to answer a question like yes, like you're
going to have like more energy to do things, like
to do whatever that you want to do. Like I
do think that is like an untapped resource for some
people for just improving overall energy and health. But again,
(44:40):
like it's just one thing. Like if you take all
these stepplents, do all this stuff, but you don't sleep well,
you're still not going to feel energetic. You know, if
you sleep well and take all these stopplents, but your
testosterones in the boots, you know, you're still not going
to feel energetic. So you know, there's so many different
things that contribute to energy overall, and mitochondri health is
(45:02):
just one of the ones, but it is one that
maybe has been neglected and that a lot of people
could probably improve upon.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Yeah, yeah, this is great because this is, like almost
everything we've talked about today a bit of a mystery
to me, but it's it's great to hear. Well, uh,
this will be version two. Mike will come, we'll come
back on and maybe uh we'll get into the light
stuff a little bit more too. But awesome having you
like you're just I don't know, I feel like you're
(45:31):
all over my I G feed and my x feed.
You just seem to be like on top of everything.
Where can people get a hold of you?
Speaker 3 (45:38):
Well, they can get a hold of me on Twitter, Instagram.
It's doctor Mike Hart on all of this, so it's
just d R M I K E H A R T.
I also have my own podcast called Heart Heart, where
they can they can find me there, so yes, you know,
put in my name online you should be able to
find out a little bit about me pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Amazing, right, Yeah, and the podcast is glorious. We made
a couple of occurrences on that Bad Boy. It's uh,
I didn't really doctor means is on it' that's a
beast of a fine but keep up the great work,
my friend, and you're making this all real. Proud fellow
Canadian folks, thank you, brother dog you zil. If you
(46:21):
enjoyed that, please leave us any comments at quodcast nine
nine at gmail dot com. I want to thank our
sponsors Betterhelp dot com largest online canceling platform. Got to
check out better Help dot com backslash Solving Health. Can
you get ten percent off? Check out Element? This is
what I use anytime I gotta do some exercise post exercise,
when I'm fasting sugar free electrolyte, drink the ball it.
(46:44):
Go to drink Element dot com backslash quadcast and get
your free sample pack. That's drink Element dot com backslash quodcast.
Also make sure to check out our twenty eight day
reboot course those that are trying to get into the
health kick. We keep it simple, highly effective ways such
as increasing your protein into getting your ten thousand steps
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for all the support, and let's continue to show up
as our best selves. It's all about staying guy at
a strong baby. If you want to sign up for
our newsletter, that's quadcast dot substack dot com. Quadcast dot
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(48:54):
TikTok threads at quadcasts. You can leave any comments at
Quadcasts nine nine at Gmail. We'd love to hear from you.
We constantly want to improve on the show's content. Don't
be shy. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (49:06):
Talk real soon, peace.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
I remember seeing you when spaghetti strappy napsack hells up
by your back. When I've seen it, I was like,
damn girl, so.
Speaker 3 (49:16):
You have a man, buddy.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
No Radio, no problem. Stream is live on Saga ninety
sixty am dot c
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