Ep 235: AEW Dynasty Recap-New Champs Crowned, Osprey vs Danielson Even Better Than Expected.

Episode 235: We look back at AEW Dynasty....Swerve Strickland wins the world title, Jack Perry returns, Osprey vs Danielson was crazy good. Plus, all the latest news. 




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Episode Transcript

(00:06):
What's up everybody. Welcome back toPro Wrestling After Hours. It's Michael Carlisle,
joined as always by Micah frankl Micah. I was shaking, man,
everything's swerving, man, nothing isshaking. The whole world is swerving when
they drive. Now, well,that can't be safe. Be careful out

(00:26):
on the roads. But yes,a new AW World champion crowned this past
weekend at Dynasty. Swerve Strickland defeatsSamoa Joe for the title. We'll talk
about that, We'll talk about thecard. Say what you want about AWTV,
but AW knows how to do payper views. That was an effing

(00:47):
awesome pay per view really for me, with the exception of just one match.
But what we can get in thatis we go overall. Though curious
your thoughts on AW Dynasty. Ourfirst thought is that we got an incredible
two days back to back of wrestlingof a lot of wrestling. I mean,

(01:12):
no twenty minute intros, no thirtyminute waits to get to the first
match. There was a lot ofgreat wrestling over Saturday and Sunday. I
know we're not going to get deepinto it. Hey, Rob Van Dan
won a four to twenty match whwould have ever thought he could outsmoke everybody

(01:33):
in a four way That was kindof cute and funny, but overall,
when we get to die, Idecide to make you laugh to Dynasty.
Yeah, I thought that most ofthe matches delivered. And something I brought
up that we haven't really talked about, like MMA After Hours, our other
show that we do, UFC threehundred was the greatest card ever, and

(01:57):
I've seen some people almost talking abouthow you wish you could structure an MMA
card after that MMA card, likea pro wrestling card where you're sometimes able
to have ebbs and flows, whereyou're able to let the crowd recruperrate,
because something like UFC three hundred wasNonStop pedal on the gas, and when
you do that for seven hours,it's exhausting. So five hours here of

(02:23):
aaw content because let's get rid ofthat first thirty minutes of the pre show,
and from that point on we justhad match after match made like eleven
matches of five hours, I believe. So when you say that there was
one that disappointed you, do youthink that was maybe some ebbs and flows
also in there, just meticulous sleepannedwhere not every match can be that attention

(02:44):
grabber. No, that match sucked. Which match you're talking about? Hooking
Jericho? That match was terrible.That had nothing to do with placement,
It had nothing to do with ebbsand flows. Now I will use an
example or two of a match aswe go that does fit that description.
But no, the bill to thatmatch was terrible. The match itself was

(03:04):
terrible to me, and I sayall it to me, and if anybody
else feels differently, more power ifyou thought Hook was the star of that
show, wheor Jericho, more powerto you. To me, shit was
the reason that that match was awful? Why? No, not you?
Why? But why what they did? Why Jericho at FTW champion? Why

(03:27):
bashing Hook in the head with awith the with a bat for him to
lose? I understood the first timewhen he kicked out. I I guess
the adversity to come up again.But Hook has already lost the FTW title
and regained it. Remember a coupletimes, whether it be pay per views
or Big Dynamites, and Hook's takingabuse and we're kind of like, wow,

(03:49):
why does Tash just sit there andlet this happen? Why does he
get up and go down and dosomething. Well. I think we got
our answer on Sunday because it makesHook look like a weak ass putts when
Daddy comes down to protect him.So not only for me, did you
have a really not good match therethe end of it with Jericho winning.

(04:10):
You mentioned the bat and old manBig Round Taz had to come down and
protect baby boy. I don't thinkthey did Hook any favors at all.
And look, if some of therumors out there are true, maybe that
was done by design. I don'tthink Hook's going anywhere, at least not

(04:30):
yet, but there is talk thatWWE is interested in him once he becomes
available. Maybe Tony Kahan knows thatand they're true. But again, I
think you just do this on arampage or dynamite and get the belt off
Hook and have Jericho beat him downand do all that. You don't have
to take up valuable pay per viewtime. But that's just me real quick,

(04:55):
Let's go back the pre shows asgood as they do with pay per
views, their paper the pre shows. Honestly, I'd rather listen to more
Rene and RJ City than Matt SidelTrimperetta. I guess Cassidy and Shebata versus

(05:15):
Shane Taylor and Lee Moriarty was wasfine. And I guess you needed sidel
And and Bretta right before that tokind of further along. Barretta Orange Cassidy
deal a little bit. That wasfine. I guess the the so you
put hook in Jericho on the payper view, But the unification of the

(05:35):
six man in trios titles, that'sjust pre show. That's pre show fodder.
But Bullet Club Gold beats the Acclaimedand Daddy ass so they are the
unified ae W World Trios Champions,I think is what we're calling it.
I believe that sounds like what Isaw. Yeah, all right, so

(05:58):
you just eliminated a tie. Ican only assume that means Tony CON's about
to add two new titles. Butmore on that in a second. We
get to the pay per view.Are you hearing rumors of new titles?
Uh no, but that doesn't meanI'm just spculating. Tony Kahan loves him
some titles. He does. I'mof an active trios division, so we're

(06:21):
gonna unify the titles. I thinkthat's better because there's only so many trios
in AW exactly and most of themare just thrown together. So you did
in the Ring of Honor six manand aw trios titles. But yeah,
it's fine. We kick off themain card trios match. Look at that

(06:41):
Adam Copeland, Mark Brisco, EddieKingston versus House of Black. I was
a little surprised, Micah, butI thought it was the right move.
You know, a trios that's actuallya legit trios gets the win in House
of Black, and hopefully this advancesus further towards Malaclive Black versus Adam Copeland
one on one and Copeland having hisfirst nemesis for the TNT title. I

(07:05):
feel like those seeds were planted,but a couple of times I feel like
Malachi Black having a individual rivalry seedshave been planted, and then he's been
redacted back to just kind of beingattack team with one of them. I
see. I yeah, And whileI think all three of them could be

(07:26):
really great singles wrestlers, I'd rathersee Malachi as the solo guy and Buddy
and Brody being the tag team andthen when you need the trios, you're
all together. Makes all the sensein the world, I think so,
but we'll see. But House ofBlack gets the wind there, then we

(07:46):
get to hooking Jericho. I justthere was nothing. And I'm not anti
Jericho like a lot of people seemto be these days. But this hasn't
interested me at all. And Idon't think I'm alone in the now for
a variety of different reasons. Butone of the things about Chris Jericho that's
been a hallmark for him, He'salways been one step ahead, reinventing himself.

(08:09):
The list, the o Cho,lion Hart, not today's lion Heart,
but Lionhart back in the day towhy to Jay and this and that,
this seems like Jericho and maybe thisis part of the Grand planet all
this, I don't know, butJericho chasing his tail, trying to hold

(08:31):
on rather than being innovative. Didyou get that feeling or is that just
me? I thought it was bored. I don't know. This felt really
awkward from the Jericho perspective. Lookingaround it just even deeper to me,
signs a light on. It wasa rash decision to break up the Jassa.

(08:52):
I mean, Daddy Magic now getsto be a part of a trio's
that got to winning the Rampage mainevent. But outside of breaking off Sammy
Gavara and maybe breaking off cool Hand, like, maybe you could have still
played the Him and Ruby Soho loveangle up. I think that Jericho still

(09:16):
needed the group still something with JakeHager, Jack Swagger whatever being near him.
I think there was a lot moreoomph behind that character than Jericho putting
on a rendition of his old tightsand trying to be a force mentor to
Hook that has turned sideways. Thisfelt like a bad storyline from the get

(09:39):
go, and Jericho every time Isee him and you can I feel like
the gears are turning, like he'seven trying to think his way through what
he's doing. Well, he's doingit because what was pitch feels so awkward.
Yeah, and it was so bad. I felt the need to move
it up into talking about it becausewe skipped over about three matches. But
we'll go back to him. Ijust didn't This one did not connect for

(10:01):
me at all. I don't thinkit did Hook any favors. Even in
defeat, Jericho didn't need the FTWtitle. I don't think it did him
any favors. So if you're notadvancing at least one of the people I
think you have to question why you'redoing it, and maybe there's something that
we're not seeing yet, and inthe coming weeks we'll see it and then

(10:22):
we'll be like, oh, nowit makes sense. But watching that on
Sunday, it just seemed like atime filler, and you know, you
could have given another five minutes toPack an Okada or another match on the
card rather than shoehorning this in therejust for the sake of he It did
nothing for me, Micah, butanybody who did enjoy it, hey,

(10:46):
more power to you. Completely steppedover the opening match on the pay per
view, and that's a shame becauseit was really good and that was the
Okada Pack match. Okada gets thewin, as he should have. But
you know, we talk about andhell I just mentioned it, Micah,

(11:07):
you got to advance someone. Andin a perfect world, even in defeat,
the losing wrestler can be bigger comingout of it than going in.
I think that was the case inthis match. Pack always brings it.
The problem is his availability, andthere's been injuries and this and that and
COVID and coming back and forth andall that. But if Pack's going to

(11:30):
be around for a while, thiswould be the time to really utilize the
heck out of him. Okata getsthe win, but I thought both these
guys put on a really good show, a really good match, good enough
that on any most any other show, this might be the match everybody's talking
about. Obviously it's not, butit was really good. Okada is living

(11:50):
up to the hype. Pack isa phenomenal worker. I thought both guys
are better for it because they wentso hard. The finish was absolutely love
the match, and I don't thinkI'm stepping over by. Like you said,
it's the second best match, butprobably on most cards, it would

(12:11):
have been the show stealer and themost talked about match of the night.
So after that, then we hadCopeland Kingston brisco versus House of Black.
We talked about that, Willow NightingaleJulia Hart for the TBS Championship. Yeah,
felt like this was the way theywere going. But Willow Nightingale gets

(12:33):
the win. Mercedes Monette comes outat the end, sad to see Julia
Hart's title reign come to an end, but that being said, she's probably
gonna be better for it in thelong run. I know she's been beat
up, she's been dealing with someinjuries and stuff, so get her rest
up a little bit, and youhad the big win by House of Black

(12:54):
a little earlier in the show.So even though in defeat here with Julia,
still a good night for House ofBlack, but Willow Nightingale. I
didn't love this match, Micah,but I didn't hate it either. I
thought it was fine for what itwas, and Willow gets to win and
we inched closer to Willow and Mercedes. I guess they made that official for

(13:16):
a double or nothing in Vegas inthe end of May. It's a story
that has some legs to it,has some background to it. We know
what happened in New Japan with Mercedesbreaking her ankle. I believe it was
yep. So it did make alot of sense. It seemed to be
the obvious way to go. Ithink that Julia Hart really did advance over

(13:39):
the last year, and I thinkthat she is better off for the title
reign. It made her look alittle more serious, and I think all
that played out well. I thinkthe crowd, especially the hometown aspect of
it being Saint Louis, it's probablythe biggest reaction as you're gonna get for
Willow nightingal anywhere, so she gother moment. I liked all of it.

(14:03):
Yeah, Like I said, Ididn't hate it. I just didn't.
I didn't love any of it,but I didn't hate any of it
either. I mean it was fine. Look, you were also following up,
you know, the House of Blackmatch and as well as Pack and
Okada. So you talk about ebbsand flows. You gotta come down a

(14:24):
little bit before you can go backup again, so that this match might
have been a little bit of avictim of some of those ebbs and flows.
But again I thought it was finefor what it was. Then you
come right back with the International Championshipmatch. Kylo O'Reilly Roderick Strong. I'm
gonna be completely honest, Micah.For me, this was the second best

(14:45):
match on the show. I likethis one better than Pack and Okada.
If you tell me differently, Iget it. I ain't gonna argue with
you. I thought they were bothreally good. This was a little different
as well, more of a notso much the high flying spots but more
of a ground and pound vicious butit was still an exciting match. I

(15:09):
enjoyed this one a lot Roddy Stronggets to win and retains the belt.
Ground and Pound Vicious. Their stylesmatch up well. Both have the MMA
esque kind of introductions. Thought itwas played out perfectly as a match.
I was. I think I evensaid to you when we were watching it
that unfortunately this match was on thiscard because I thought it was overshadowed by
the other the match we haven't gotto and that first match. I'm like,

(15:33):
Oh, I love the performers somuch, it's hard for me to
not say they overshadowed it. Butif you don't see the value in Kyle
O'Reilly and Roger Strong at performers,it's on Youah. It also felt like
this match kind of got thrown together. Yeah, in the last minute.
But yeah, but look that beingsaid, yeah, you're putting Roddy Strong

(15:56):
and Kyle O'Reilly in the ring.They're gonna find a way to deliver.
Now. You did also have somepostmatch stuff. Hallelujah praised the Lord Adam
Cole can walk out of the wheelchair, no crutches, no boot. He
had on a full pair of tennisshoes Micah sneakers if you will, kicks,

(16:18):
I think is what the kids callhim these days, but Adam Cole
can walk. We also had somelooks back and forth between Coal and Wardlow.
It just seems like they were planninga lot of seeds on Sunday night
that Wardlow may not be long forthat group. Wardlow may not be long
for that group because Wardlow has notlived up to the expectations. He did

(16:42):
not go and get the aw worldtitle like he was told. That was
his mission. He was there toget it, and he has failed.
And the Devil is back, andyou could see that he has some iyre
towards his muscle failing. Here's theproblem with Micah for me, And look,

(17:02):
I love the devil storyline, andI know some didn't, some got
tired of it. I enjoyed itall. And Adam Cole really wanted the
world title that badly, and hewas the devil. Why did they set
all that up to have Samoa Joein it? Why didn't Cole set that
up for Roddy or for somebody elsefor Wardlow then and have Wardlow give him

(17:27):
the title or whatever. But pointbeing, you were in control of your
own destiny to a certain degree,Adam Cole, and you helped Samoa Joe
beat MJF. Why didn't you helpsomebody else who was gonna give you what
you wanted in the first place.It's anger. Anger will make you do

(17:48):
desperate things, and he desperately justwanted to screw over MJF. That was
his desire. And then the worldtitle came into play, and he thought
about that later. But the worldtitle was at play there, Why not
screw over MJF and get the worldtitle that you so desperately? What you
could have done both at the sametime, someone Joe was around, and

(18:10):
he had no way to get intothe title fight. I don't know sure
he did. Look how many times, even if you see Micah, come
on, you're better than this,how many times did Adam Cole manipulate MJF
into defending the world title into defendingthe Ring of Honor tag team titles while
Cole was hurt? He absolutely Again, I get it, you're telling a

(18:33):
story, but to me, therewas some whatever. But yeah, holes,
But also, Adam Cole has neverbeen healthy enough. Saw all we
have is cmpunk two point zero.Even if he did win the world title,
he broke his damn ankle like twodays later. Well yeah, but
he's not healthy now, and we'rebuilding this tension between he and Wardlow over

(18:56):
Wardlow's inability to win the title forhim. But that's building tension, that's
not actually walking around with the belt. I don't understand. I don't feel
like I feel like it would bejust it's dead. Like the whole storyline
changes and everything is weirder if ifhe wins the world title and then I

(19:17):
have to give it right back,so because it got it, I don't
know, Okay, okay, soso so, so what happened? What
happens two months ago? If Wardlowhad beaten Joe and handed the title to
Adam Cole, well now, well, no, two months ago when they
were doing that, when they weredoing that story, well, the expectation
for that story would have been thatWardlow had the title till now, and

(19:37):
like Wednesday, we'd be expecting himto hand it to Adam Cole because Adam
Cole could finally walk. Maybe youwould have also had Michael al Adam Cole
as Christian two point h And maybethat's why they stopped it, because maybe
they already did this with Lucasaurs andthey're like, oh shit, we're we'rey
rewriting what we already did. Nevermind, we can't have Wardlow defending the

(19:57):
title, and Adam Cole's just rollingaround in a wheelchair with the title saying
I'm the world champion. The wholetime They're like, oh shit, we
just already did this. Maybe wellyeah, no, look I do understand
that, but I'm talking so you'reAdam Cole at any point in time,
this this title that you so valuethat you bring Wardlow into your group to

(20:21):
win it for you, and nowyou're giving him the evil eye because you
can't win it. Yeah, whenyou were that close to MJF, why
didn't you orchestrate all this then andget the title rather than set it up
and help Samoa Joe beat MJF andJoe damn sure wasn't going to turn around
and hand you. That's my pointin all this. I understand injuries and

(20:41):
the esthetics of handing crippled coal abelt that he can't defend. I'm talking
about so Adam Cole the devil himself. So we're going back to all in
basically, and Tony Khn screwed upwhen they should have had Adam Cole turn
on MJF when he had a worldtitle fight with MJF. So Adam Cole

(21:07):
wants this belt so bad, buthe also wants to screw MJF over.
Why would you help someone beat MJFfor the belt who's not going to cooperate
with you and give you that beltthat you want, that you to do
right? So like that, that'swhy he's got Wardlow right. He expected
Wardlow to win the title and handit over to him, so so so

(21:29):
it would have been a lot easierto f MJF over storyline wise and get
the belt from him and get whatyou want, rather than help Samoa Joe
someone who is going to be harderto get the belt from. Okay,
So storyline wise, it's because don'tyou remember Adam Cole was injured and he's
watching MJF defend the world title andthe tag team Talles. He's watching MJF
beat up two people. No Iknows he can't beat MJF. So he's

(21:52):
going to get the title off ofMJF and to a guy that he thinks
he can be in Somemoa Joe.Bullshit, that's why. Bullshit, Because
if you think if you can't beatMJF, then you goddamn sure can't beat
Samoa Joe. But no, I'mtalking about what he was thinking in the
story. No, no, no, it was terribly flawed, But I
digress whatever. Like I said,it feels like they needed him to turn

(22:12):
when he had a title fight becauseif his object is the title. No,
no, I understand that, Iunder a long time ago was my
point. No, no, Iunderstand that, and the rest of this
is just trying to make up forthat. But but but why not?
Why did after that you were totallyright a long look when he has the

(22:32):
opportunity, right, I understand thedifference in Roddy Strong and Samoa Joe,
But why not if you're Adam Cole, canive get MJF to agree to defend
the title against Roddy Strong, whoyou're secretly in cohoots with. Roddy Strong
wins Adam Coles revealed as the devil. Riddy Strong presents him with the belt
that seems a lot easier than Iwant to screw MJF over, I really

(22:56):
want this belt. Let's help thisbig ass monster who none of us have
a chance of beating, beat MJF. And then We'll just figure it out
later that that's what I'm talking about. But I hear you, but it's
not like MJF wrestles on Dynamite,and it's not like anyone would have bought
that as a real pay per view, you know, like, why this
shit is this happening? No,No, I understand, I understand.

(23:17):
So I understand your point. Froma storyline, it looks right, but
from everything else, it's harder tosell. I think that's kind of why
you ended up with Samoa Joe insome of these spots, because Somemojo is
a bigger name and easier to sell, instead of we're just gonna do Adam
Cole and MJF and back to backpay per views so that Adam Cole can
screw MJF this time, Right,that would have made more sense, right,

(23:40):
Just put Adam Cole back in thewar in Joe's spot. He just
wrestled on that pay per view andthen the devil screws him. Point being,
Adam Cole made it harder on himselfto get what he wants. That's
that is the whole model. Though, you can how this skuy bar injuress
himself constantly well, look, youcan't help injuries. No one and in
real life would have done anything AdamCole did for the end result. Now,

(24:03):
you might have screwed over your friendthings like that, or pretended you
were his friend and all that,but let's just move on because it doesn't
matter, and all this talk isactually overshadowing again what I thought was the
second best match on the show.My guess is you probably had it third
maybe fourth best and strong and oldRiley. I really enjoyed that. So,
no matter how about the writing,is, are we in line that

(24:25):
at some point it feels like Warlowis out of the Undisputed Kingdom and this
is going to segue into the returnof MJF and we'll have the adversaries for
the Undisputed Kingdom and try to makethem relevant. If that happens, then
Wardlow may as well just change hisname to Lucasaurus, because that's basically what
he is without the mask he's butmaybe at least for a short time,

(24:49):
because I don't think that you Okay, Warlow doesn't look better for any of
this, because what does he dois he the first victim of the Undisputed
king We probably see is he thefirst victim of the Undisputed Kingdom, or
does he become an ally of thetrue threat to the Undisputed Kingdom? Because

(25:10):
I don't think we're getting Warlow's notgoing to be in the group when MJF
comes back, so he can't defeatthe group because we need MJF to have
some kind of atam Cole payoffs.So the group is sticking around until MJF
comes back, right, maybe,yeah, probably so Warlow's worse for all
this, probably, Okay. Justnext, we had a hook in Jericho,

(25:33):
and I know we already talked aboutit, but no, no,
a couple of other things. It'snever a good thing when the fans are
chanting, go home, Jericho,go home. See what they were saying
I couldn't do. Yeah, okay, it's also hang on, I got
to contemplate. I got Angel onone shoulder, Devil on the other.

(25:55):
All right, Devil wins ex Caliberwho if you listen to the show at
all, you know I'm not afan of you probably didn't catch this micup
while we were watching it the firsttime around, but it happened. You
can go back during this stupid asshook Jericho match ex Caliber live on pay

(26:15):
per view in a microphone compared thatmatch to the original ECW. Now,
my first thought was, well,ex caliber without actually saying it, just
told everyone he never saw a matchduring the original ECW, even if he
was fed that line. How inthe fudge can you compare that? Now?

(26:36):
I get it, FTWA. Iunderstand what they were trying to do
there, but say what you wantabout hooking Jericho, And it was a
lot of things. It was nothinglike original ECW. It just wasn't.
I would probably more like in thismatch to a WWE hardcore match, like

(27:00):
the twenty four to seven title versionof the hardcore match exactly. This is
a hardcore like hardcore tested mother approved, I guess. And by the way,
is there anything dumber than the hooksignal? A lot of things annoy
you about hook I just know II don't know if it's a signal.

(27:22):
I I just you don't know ifit's a signal. What the fuck does
Tony Kah, Tony Shamanni say everytime they say it's the hook signal?
Every single time they showed up insketches like the goddamn backs. How can
you say, oh, I didn'tknow it's the Hook signal. Come on,
Micah, don't insult my intellig You'renot Tony Kahan. Don't insult my
intelligence. I hear Hook's music start, and I kind of stopped paying attention

(27:48):
for two minutes. Yes, andI really want to like Hook. I
want to overlook the fact that he'sfive ft two and one hundred and ten
pounds. I do, But theymake it so damn hard. Don't make
it so hard for me to likesomebody that you want me to like.
You don't make it hard for meto like Tony Storm. She defended the
AW Women's Championship against thunder rosa OKmatch, not a bad match. I

(28:14):
thought it was better than Julie Hartwelland Nightingale. Tony Storm gets to win
here. I was a little concernedthey might pull the trigger here. I'm
glad they did. Not Tony Storm. She truly is timeless. And I
don't even say that to be funnytrying to make a pun. She's that
damn good. Oh, she's thatdamn good. She's that damn good.

(28:34):
She elevates the division. She bestAW Women's champion outside of Britt Baker,
Like we've had those two. AndI think they've outdone everyone else in the
division when we had DMD at itspeak, when now that we've had Timeless
Tony Storm, probably the two bestworld champions for women at AW has had

(29:00):
and believable full characters. You neverthought that somebody in a full singlet,
black boots and way too much powderedmakeup sometimes would be over like this and
not to mention it. I wastold her best work is even done on
the pay per view. You sayher best work is done in the post

(29:22):
pay per view media scrums. Sheis fantastic, fantastic you s I do?
I say, fan Now, unfortunatelyonly a handful of people bother to
watch those. You know, youtalk about TV ratings and things like that,
Well those numbers just go down furtherand further and further because not as
many people are gonna buy pay perviews as tune into free TV. And

(29:44):
then even less of those people aregoing to tune in after a four hour
pay per view and watch an hourlong media scrum done mostly in storyline.
But that is a shame, becauseI mean this is a common implement.
A lot of her best work hasdone in those media scrubs. She is
really really good. She also thecolorful language he used. She could never

(30:08):
do most of that stuff on TVanyway, but it is a shame that
a lot of her best work isprobably wasted in the post fight media scrums.
But definitely timeless. Speaking of timeless, the match we should be spending
the longest amount of time talking aboutand I don't know if I can my
k it just because I'm not surewe can do it. Justice will Ospray

(30:30):
and Brian Danielson was effing awesome.How do you describe holy freaking shit big
time impacts Daniel O'Brien's ability to sellBrian Danielson. Come on, Mike,
I'm surprised we got through Adam Copelandwithout me calling him edge. So I

(30:52):
get it. The little goat lookingdude's an American dragon. American dragon there.
I just won't mess that one upanymore. Are uh? The meshing
of the two styles where you're stillable to have the aerial magistry from will
Ospray, the ground and submission basedoffense of Danielson, The two big moments

(31:18):
of almost that anime feeling of thetwo coming out of the corner colliding at
each other. That was That wasspecial. I feel bad for anybody else
who would like to figure out away to give themselves in contention for Match
of the Year, because you're gonnabe really hard pressed to top this.

(31:44):
Now, assuming we get Osprey Danielsonagain at all in in Wimbley, the
two of them might have a chanceto try to top themselves. I think
I think any and everybody's gonna havea hard time trying to top that match
for Match of the Year twenty twentyfour. That's how good it was.

(32:05):
And I'm not one to get intothe hyperbole. Oh, greatest AEW match
ever, one of the greatest wrestlingmatches, and look, it was a
lot of great things. It wasnot the greatest AW match of all time.
Now it's probably up in the conversation, but I do think it's been
the best match of twenty twenty fourso far by a long shot. And
if anybody thinks they can top it, I hope I get to see it.

(32:32):
Can you raise the bar? Canyou catch the bar? Can you
believe that a match like that thatwas hyped up? And let's be honest,
it's a little bit over taught tosay what it was. Oh,
this is going to be one ofthe greatest matches of all time. Blah

(32:53):
blah blah. When you put theexpectations on them and for those to get
close enough to touch, expectation tohands down be match of the year,
Like just bra Vo for going outthere and being able to match the high
bar that we have set for thosetwo gentlemen. Given Brian Danielson's concussion history,

(33:14):
seizure history. You have a problemwith the ending of this match where
they do the oh Ospray missed thereferee trying to stop the match so the
doctor could check out Danielson, andOspray finishes the match, and then Danielson
goes into his little convulsions for singingfrom another headshot. I don't think I

(33:37):
had a problem with it, Okay. I they play up the Danielson injuries
quite a bit, and I wasalmost surprised to not see them go that
step further. Why don't we havethe gurney the rest of the medical staff.
I when you see the backstage footageand they're carrying Danielson off, it's

(34:00):
good, by the way, it'snot good. He looks injured, but
I think they could have made theinjury look even worse. She could have
sent him off in an ambulance.I mean, we've seen I'm talking about
Roman Reigns, Bronze Stroman going throughlike a wall. Remember they were bof
on stretchers getting wheeled out. Ithink that Danielson looked more injured than those

(34:22):
guys. It felt real, butyou could tell it wasn't because of the
lack of commotion. But I couldsee if you felt it was in bad
taste and too close to reel.I personally I didn't have a problem with
it, but anybody who says whatyou just said poor taste maybe shouldn't have

(34:43):
done that. I totally get it, and I wouldn't even though I didn't
have a problem, I wouldn't disagreewith you. I don't know that I
would have done it either if itwere my decision to make, just because
I think a lot of fans dofear something happening to Brian Danielson. There's
a re and he took all thetime off he did. There's a reason
he's not in WWE right now.If we're being completely honest, and to

(35:07):
use that may not be in thebest taste. That being said, I
don't think it took away from thismatch at all. And yeah, you
know, Ospray said he wasn't gonnado the move anymore because of it.
We'll see how that plays out.But yeah, the backstage thing, and

(35:29):
I'm glad they didn't show this onTV. If I were them, i'd
pull it down off the social media. But where the doctor and Ospray are
carrying danielsonto the medical room and Ospreyscreaming at people to get out of the
way, like Danielson had been shotor something like he was fucking JFK and
Dallas or some shit. That wasa bit much, but whatever, you

(35:51):
know what, you have a matchlike that, I guess you can f
around in the postmatch Shenan against alittle bit and get a little bit of
lee way there. But hell ofa match. What are we gonna do
about the don Kallis situation, Micah, because seems to me is plainly obvious
that Ospray ain't gonna be a partof the family. Callus was out there

(36:13):
on commentary, and to his credit, he was planning those seeds, questioning
what Ospray was doing and his compassionand things like that. But the sooner
we just pulled the trigger on thisand separate them. I think the better
because the look as much as thefans love Ospray, Now go ahead and
make that official. If that meanswe got to sit through Ospray and Okada

(36:37):
at double or nothing or some othermember of House of Black, then poor
us, we'll just have to sufferthrough that. Let's get going. Let's
do that, and let's get towork on making Will Ospray what I think
is going to be the biggest startof this company. Yes, I agree
with you, he's over the micskills are more impeccable than we all could

(36:59):
have predicted. I think there wassome concern about it. We know that
he is among the best wrestlers whenwe get in the ring, contriving a
match, getting the psychology going,his ability to produce aerial moves, ground
based offense, and then also traditionalwrestling moves. Everything you want is in

(37:21):
Will Ospray. I look at thewinners of this pay per view and like
Olcotta Ospray, well, they're gettingthese new guys introduced. I see AEW
being in a really good place andtaking these new japan talents to a level
that Japan wrestling was not able todo. Yeah, all right. Next

(37:45):
we had the ladder match for theaw Tag Team Championships FTR of the Young
Bucks. Here's first thing with thismatch, the unenviable task of following Ospray
and Danielson. That is hard foranybody. Don't let anybody tell you this
wasn't a good match, because notonly was it a good match, it
was a very good match. Ithought that they even played the psychology out

(38:08):
very well with the slow start forthe first ten minutes building up to give
everybody that opportunity to rehydrate. Well, they were smart enough to understand we
could come out and go bass tothe wall and it's still going to come
off as slow coming off of Danielsonospring So yeah, go the psychological route.

(38:28):
You're telling a story here. Youtalked earlier about ebbs and flows of
a show. Yes, you hadto have that slow, methodical start the
build. And look, that's notto say that they were just doing step
over toe holds and and things likethat. They were doing their stuff,
but they were smart about it,and as the match went along, things

(38:50):
got crazier and crazier and crazier.I thought both teams here did a really
good job. All four in ofputting this match together, of laying it
out, and I thought they tolda really good story, really good story.
I liked the mix of where theywent high risk where they didn't.

(39:13):
It felt like I was surprised actuallyfrom a point standpoint, that the Bucks
were just laying into FTR for thefirst half of the match. I mean,
at that point I was pretty heavyon if we could live bed,
I'd be like, FTR FDR,FDR back out. There is no way
the Bucks are just gonna look thisdominant. And it did sway a little

(39:36):
bit more back to even, butthe EVPs looked a lot more physically offensive
than I expected. Towards the endof the match, a dude in a
sting match and a mask and ahoodie comes into the ring and lays out
FTR security comes in and immediately takeshim to the corner, right into the

(40:00):
camera so they can pull his hooddown and take his mask off, and
Shock of Shocks. It's Jack Perry, Shock of Shocks. Jack is back.
And a lot of this again washorribly played out by AW because if
you're in the Internet and you're inthe now, maybe it makes a little

(40:22):
more sense that they were pulling JackPerry out because he's is he suspended?
Was he ever suspended? This madeno sense from the standpoint of it was
a AW wrestler running in on AAWmatch, so from the standpoint that they
tackled him made all the sense inthe world. But when they took off

(40:44):
the mask, I was fully expectingfor security to back away and like slide
under the ring ropes and walk awaybecause Jack Perry is an AW wrestler.
Now, I understand if he wasa you were scared, you made it
look like you were scared. Butwhen he was a wrestler that you knew,

(41:06):
why don't you just back away becausehe works for the show. If
you think I go long sometimes onthis show about things I don't like,
imagine poor Micah having to listen tome bitch and moan about this for the
remainder of this match and the firstpart of Swerve in Samoa Joe. He's
just trying to enjoy the show,and I'm just pointing out how stupid this
is and here's why. And lookagain, maybe sometimes I'm overly critical on

(41:31):
some things, but to the pointyou just made, all right, I
get it. Outside interference, youmake Jack go to the back, but
security not only is escorting him out, You've got stupid ass ex caliber who
in defense of him is probably beingtold to say this by Tony Kah.
This man is trespassing at this payper view. This is an arrestable offense.

(41:55):
His exact words, an arrestable offense. Why the fuck didn't the match
stop? Then? Well, whydid the match keep going? Because at
this point in time, to yourpoint, this isn't Cutler or Colt Cabana
running in and handing Matthew Jackson brassknuckles or hitting one of FTR over the
head. At this point in time, this is basically a fan coming in

(42:20):
and dropping people. And if thathad happened in real life, that match
doesn't go on at least without stoppingand letting everybody regroup if they were legit
injuries. So, if you're goingto play the angle, Jack Perry,
he's trespaded. This is arrestable.Why is FTR about to lose this match
because of his interference? That justbugged the shit out of me, As

(42:42):
you know, Mike Kid, becauseyou had to listen to me go on
and on and on and on andon about it. But I was glad
to see Jack Perry back. Hegot a much more favorable reaction than I
thought he did. But then awwho said seemingly sometimes can't get out of
their own way, has to goand fuck it up by having stupid ass
ex calibers say stupid ass things thatmake me start questioning everything. Yeah,

(43:04):
that part was not great. Thatwas a big failure of communication. And
if you weren't in the know,you weren't in the know. So I
do like where they're going because eventhough it was poor execution, this is
where I expected. And I'll throwit out now next blooding guts pack FTR
and Daniel Garcia versus the elite.That sounds so uninteresting, But maybe the

(43:34):
reaction that Jack Perry got does itmake it any better That they showed the
security footage a couple of weeks agoon Dynamite? Do you think that that
helped that you think that had anythingto do with Jack Perry just not getting
booed out of the building. Icannot be for sure. But what we
can't say is it did not hurtJack Perry if you thought he was going
to do any worse for him,No, I just mean if you were

(43:57):
of the opinion this is stupid.They shouldn't showing this. It does nothing
that does the reaction Perry got.Does it at least justify Tony constansation to
use it a little bit or doesit not? I think it does,
And I think you saw enough inthere to say maybe see mpunk was kind
of a little bit of a instigatortowards it. So I think it made
some people feel not as you know, mad at Jack Perry for starting it,

(44:23):
forgetting in Cempunk's face when they're like, you know, people can get
that reaction, and you did seecmpunk. You didn't see Jack really throwing
any hands. I think that alsohelps him where you saw him very much
kind of like the fan his wayout of the submission, out of point.
I think some of it helped himat least with the fans, at

(44:47):
least with the fans that were therein attendance and the fans that have seen
him in Chicago. He's gotten thereaction you would want, so there hasn't
been the silence, there hasn't beenthe like hating him. I think he's
gotten the actual heal reaction. SoI'm guessing the results say that, yeah,
it all worked out fine for Jackbecause of the reaction. Well,

(45:08):
I don't think there was any wayhe wasn't getting a good reaction on Sunday.
I think the bigger test is goingto be Wednesday at Dynamite, Saturday,
at Collision next Wednesday, at Dynamitenext Saturday, and going forward,
because I still think there's the realpossibility of him getting the wrong kind of

(45:29):
heat here again. At the beginningof this match, but before Jack Perry,
anybody even thought he was showing up. What's the crowd chanting when FTR
and the Bucks are staring each otherdown, they're chanting, see him punk,
see him Punk, see him punkSea. I don't think you want
to do anything if you're aew thatentices the fans to chant the name of

(45:52):
a wrestler in a different company thatused to work for you. It had
a falling out and left. Idon't think that's a good look. Now,
in time, you can overcome allthat, because I do think you
you had and probably still have issuesfor Jack Perry. You want him to
be hated, but you want itto be for the right reasons, And

(46:14):
if showing that video winds up beinga help in that then obviously it would
have been worth it, but Iit makes sense, but I think you
you'd have been better off doing somethingelse. So Jack that them putting him
with the Bucks because I think fora lot of people they don't like the
Bucks, but not for the reasons. Aw doesn't want you to not like

(46:34):
them, So I think they're makingit harder. But it's also it makes
a whole lot of sense for himto be with the Bucks, So I
understand why they did that as well. They're gonna bring up seam Punk's name,
They're gonna say it on TV,They're gonna talk about him, the
crimeer river references, the glass references. Sure, I feel like they're gonna

(46:55):
they're gonna pick at him to thepoint where the crowd is gonna consistently be
cheering it. And even though you'refind of thinking is not wrong, I
just feel like they're gonna keep pickingat him. And I understand, well,
why keep picking at him when there'sno payoff? If Jack Perry keeps
getting the right kind of hate towardsbeing a heel that he's getting so far

(47:16):
in New Japan and with this appearance, I think they're just gonna keep doing
it even though psychology and You're probablycorrect they shouldn't be. I think they're
going to though. I think you'reright on that main event world title Swerve

(47:37):
and Samoa Joe. This match hada lot to live up to a based
on everything else we'd seen on thecard and be going back to the three
way at the last pay per view, would Swerve, Joe and Hangman Page.
You could make the argument that Swervemight have peaked in popularity around the

(47:59):
last pay per view you and wasmaybe just the teensy tiny bit on a
downward slide. All that went outthe window with the intros, which were
really cool, by the way,for Swerve. But I enjoyed this match
for what it will look that theywere never gonna go out and try to
out Ospray and Danielson Ospray and Danielson, but they went out and had their

(48:22):
match. Swerve gets the win.He is your AW World Champion. More
importantly, Prince Nana is the managerof the ae W World Heavyweight All right,
maybe that's not more important, Micah, But I'm as happy for Noda
as I am for Swerve. Theydid it. They did it. History

(48:46):
has been made. There's a newworld champion. He's a world champion that
I that I think most of uscan get behind. He's a world champion
that worked hard at it. Thematch was good. One of the things
I'm appreciating with AEW recently has beenin a heightened influence on selling. I

(49:14):
feel like Swerve, Orange Cassidy,you can look around, there's some guys
that can really sell. Brian Danielson, like we've talked about issues just interesting
wide in selling right right, andI think Swerve does a really good job
of selling, like Joe was beingthe best out of him for the first
part of that match. Yeah,So that's one of the things where I

(49:36):
think it's a complete package. Itfeels like the right time. It feels
like that moment where we've said aguy has put everything together. So maybe
you were right that maybe the popularityhas came down. But if Swerve Strickland
was ever gonna be a world champion, he is operating at the highest level
of his career well. And that'swhy I talked about last week going into

(49:57):
this, the little bit of acorner AW had painted themselves in. Swerve
had to win here otherwise there's therebecomes a believability issue, and it's something
WCW had back in the day withlike s Luger. How many times can
you put Luger in with Flair andhim not win before the fans figure out
he's never winning. At the sametime, Joe had done nothing wrong as

(50:19):
champion. As a matter of fact, he had done a fabulous job.
Did you really want to take thetitle off of Joe right now? So?
How how was this going to playout? I think they did the
right thing here. I also don'tthink it hurts Joe. It's certainly not
nearly as much him losing as itcould have hurt and Swerve had he lost,

(50:40):
So all around, I think itwas the right move. It was
time for Swerve to have his moment, and I'm curious to see. Obviously,
Joe's not going to be far fromthe title picture, but I'm curious
where they go over the next coupleof months with with Swerve his champ I'm
assuming we're to see Hangman page backhere pretty soon. As fact, I'm

(51:05):
kind of afraid that's what we're gonnaget at double or nothing is Swerve and
Hangman. But we'll see how thatplays out. But I enjoyed this match.
I thought it was a really goodmatch and very happy for swarre Stricly,
very happy for Serve the right timeto pull the trigger. Joe can
come back into the title mix wheneverhe's an imposing figure. He could go

(51:27):
start a feud with any random hero. You're annoying me because of your face.
I'm Samoa Joe, so I thinkit works out for both of them.
Here was my big question coming outof this match, Micah, did
you at all feel vindicated for pissingaway your hard earned money on that dumb

(51:47):
ass Keith Lee Swerve Strictly shirt thatyou happen to be wearing Sunday night as
well while you're watching the pay perview and seeing Swerve in all his lory
with his hand raised and that beltaround his waist, did it all make
it worthwhile for you? That shirt'sbeen worthwhile since they served in their glory

(52:07):
the first time and won the attacktingtitles. That is a memory of a
moment that is endeared to me.Now I gotta get a new Serve shirt.
I was expecting you to come backwith, Wait, you're making fun
of my shirt. Weren't you wearingone of your thirty Dan Housen shirts.
And I was easy on me WrestleManiaa week when I wore nothing but Cody
Rhoads. So yeah, that's that'sall right, That's that's all good.

(52:30):
But look, I say what youwant. AW knows how to do pay
per views. The problem for themis the weekday show. Look, you've
got workers AAW is the worker company, and that's great, but it doesn't
always make for compelling television in termsof attracting fans. It makes great pay

(52:52):
per views. Hell, even OspreyDanielson, there wasn't a ton of build
for that. Yes, they announcedit several weeks back, but it was
kind of thrown together on the guysof hey, we're doing this dream match
at the pay per view. Everybodytune in. A lot of people need
more than that to entice them tothrow down their hard earned money. I

(53:12):
think that's something AW needs to improveon. But when we talk about,
oh, another great pay per viewfrom AW, and I don't remember the
last time we've been overly critical ofa pay per view, because they typically
deliver on those I'd like to seemore. Giving us a reason on Dynamite
Collision Rampage, each week to wantto know why we're doing these matches at

(53:37):
the pay per view, or whywe're bringing in these guys and things like
that. Obviously, Dynamite a bigshow, excuse me, Dynasty a big
pay per view, a great payper view, But you've got to capture
that momentum and build on your TVshows. So I used to have some
friends that were in the film departmentof the local universe that we live by,

(54:00):
and one of them was this reallycreative dude who could come up with
these great over stories. Right.He could come up with the concept.
He can tell you what the storyis gonna be about, work out the
story. But when you would getlike into the bar and the two guys
are having dinner for the movie andthey're gonna pan over what's the dialogue and
the conversation, He's like, fuck, I could tell you like the thoughts

(54:22):
of where the conversation is supposed tobe about, but you know, what
are you actually saying? Like wordfor word was failing him. So there
was another girl that we know andand she ended up she's like, oh,
I know how to do that.Like I'm not great at writing like
the overall story, but I coulddo a conversation, so you had to
match that together. Well, thatwriter is what Tony Kahan is missing.

(54:42):
He has these great story ideas andthe dialogue is what we need help with.
It's kind of like the not ConvinceRusso back in the day. He
can come up with these great ideas, but how are we getting there?
Why are we getting there? What'sthe purpose? Yep? And you had
Vince McMahon in WWE or f atthe time that Vince filtered those ideas through

(55:07):
Russo, filter those ideas through McMahon, shape them and all that. It
worked great. When Vince McMahon orwhen Vince Russo left and went to WCW,
it didn't work because there wasn't thatfilter. Hopefully Tony Kahan continues to
rely on more of the people hehas around him, whether it's people he's

(55:28):
recently brought in in front office positions, whether it's your Danielson's and people like
that, to help flesh these thingsout, give these stories meaning and purpose,
and to give the fans more ofa reason to care other than well
you should care. It's a dreammatch. Now. Obviously that worked perfectly
for Danielson Osprey more times than not. That doesn't work the way you want

(55:52):
it to in terms of whether it'stelevision ratings or pay per view bys.
So you do need that mix.You need more than just great athletes putting
on great matches. And even onthat I was wondering the show structure.
If we could simply change some showstructure with Dynamite Collision Rampage. Do we
elevate Rampage because Rampage is the redheadedstep child, the forgotten entity and all

(56:17):
of this, and you look atthe show structure and that's what screams out.
Like this past week, you hadthe four to twenty match, you
had the Kingdom versus Kyle O'Reilly andFriends trios match, and you had Emmy
Soccer in a women's singles match.If you just slightly changed the card up,

(56:38):
and I'm not even talking about nothaving those matches. If you literally
took the soccer match and put iton Dynamite and you moved Mariah May versus
Deanna Parrazzo and you just quickly havelike Parazzo put out the challenge for Mariah
and you moved that to Rampage.We've now put a less desirable match on

(56:58):
a bigger show. Where can probablytake that lull and moved a slightly more
desirable match because Mariah May is comingup to a bigger show. Just like
I would have slightly changed Saturday Nightwith Adam Copeland, Eddie Kingston and Briscoe
winning their match and that was Ibelieve are clothes to Collision. I would

(57:23):
have moved that to Rampage and putthe Kingdom winning at the end of Collision.
So you just slightly move some ofthis around, and I think it
looks better like the end of thatthree hours if you have the Faces going
over and you had the Kingdom atthe end of the second hour, I
think that you probably looked at theRampage main event as it wasn't so much

(57:45):
of a lesser, especially on anight where it's all live like that.
They have a hard enough time figuredout how to format the two hour shows,
and never mind the one hour rampage. Now, look last week and
this week, by the way,a little different because they were live rampages
on Saturday, not the usual Fridaynight slot. I agree with you there,

(58:07):
if you've got a three hour block, do a little bit better job
there. But as far as theregular Friday night slot, Rampage is always
going to be seen as less thanbecause it's a Friday night and it's only
an hour, whereas your other twoshows are two hours, and it's always
going to be different because you're justnot going to be able to do as

(58:27):
much. So I think that isa challenge that might also be a prime
prime spot for an all female showwith that loaded s women's roster you have
and nowhere to put them. Ido feel like if you look at those
matches the four twenty one, theSoccer and Kingdom, they just look a
little less then than what you werehaving on Collision. And overall, if

(58:50):
you were like, well, thesematches that are slightly less than can probably
be put on Rampage or I meancould be put on Dynamite or Collision,
and let's take one real good matchand actually put it on Rampage. That's
really the whole basis of my thought. Like I do like how cool Hand
and Ruby that storyline against the Soreafamily hit has progressed through Rampage and you've

(59:13):
seen them kind of kick up alittle, But have another main storyline or
main character have some interaction with thatshow might help it not feel just so
blat you mean cheating by putting Jerichoon the announced team most weeks for rampages
and enough in terms of star power, Oh, could we take him off?
Plaser's more than enough announcers. Butthen again, I'm gonna beat them

(59:35):
up. It's not like when wejump over to WWE. I'm watching SmackDown
and I'm sitting here saying, Wow, the star power in these matches knocking
my my shoes off. I'm amazedwith the talent that we're having here on
Friday night, Because with Cody Rhodesaway with the Raw European Tour, I
felt a little bit lack of starpower this past week. Uh, that's

(01:00:00):
because you hate Solo so CoA.No, that's because I recognize Solo so
CoA for a guy that is usuallyon the opposite end of getting his hand
raised at the end of a match, and to me, that is usually
detrimental to a star because we pointthat out a lot. If Swerve kept
losing, we're gonna lose the momentum. Well, I feel like Solo so

(01:00:21):
CoA kept losing and losing and justlost my momentum. Solo and Swerve are
nothing alike. And here's why Swerveis out there, was out there on
his own. His success was predicatedon wins and losses in a worked business.
Solo was part of a group.He was the low man on the

(01:00:42):
total pole. When they had tolose. It wasn't gonna be Roman who's
getting pinned. It wasn't gonna beJimmy, although it could have been so
so so Solo was the odd manout. He is a low man on
the total pole, and that's whatI see him for it, and that's
how they built it to me,right, But but the dynamic has changed
now, whether that's because the restof the totem pole's gone for right now

(01:01:02):
or whatever. Right now he's nowat the top of the bloodline total pole.
All I see is a stump,though, is the problem? You
call it a totem pole. Andthey're bringing in new stumps Tonga, and
it looks like Jacob Fotuoz will beingin a week or two that they will
be your new stumps. That's awesomethat they're getting them. And that was

(01:01:23):
the other thing that disappointed me.What do I love most about pro wrestling?
Carlisle? Long matches with no storyline, actual physicality, right okay,
yes, yes, And what dowe get from Conga busting up Kevin Owens.
We didn't get to see it.He rolled out there already bothered,

(01:01:43):
bloody. I understand that we aremaking Tomatga out to look fierce and how
he was so fierce, but Iwould have loved to have seen Kevin Owens
get busted up, like actually,did you know who wouldn't have left to
have seen that? And that's whyit didn't happen the network fucking Fox exactly.
Yeah, No, you can't gobust the guy open on our damn

(01:02:04):
TV. This is network TV.Now he's busted open in the back and
comes out and he's already bleeding.And I know it's a little silly,
right, Oh that's okay, Butyeah, you can't actually bust him open
a tee. It is a littlesilly. I agree with you. But
my guess would be that's why thathappened the way it did. No,
you're probably right. I'm still sayingit looks silly, and it just didn't

(01:02:24):
give me the extra oomph that Ineed for Tomatonga that I felt like they
were trying to achieve. And that'sme also just trying to wipe the plate
of understanding that I know how greathe is already, but if you don't
tell people while he's great, nobodyknows or cares that eything again, much

(01:02:45):
like all the New Japan people thatTony Khan keeps signing so he can put
on dream matches and that's fine,but like, okay, they've done a
really good job since will Osprey joinedaw full time of letting you know why
everybody says he's as good as heis. With Tonga, you had to

(01:03:06):
have things like the beat there.You can't just come in, oh Bullet
Club in Japan, this and thatpart of the bloodline, you know,
kind of like they did with Solo, minus the New Japan stuff. He's
big, he's Samoan, so he'sgot to be a badass. Well,
no, you got to show mewhy he's a badass, And like you
pointed out, for a long timethey did a really poor job of that.

(01:03:27):
They're trying to change it now,but you're also having to undo some
of the things you had done withhim before, which makes the job a
little harder. I don't disagree withyou on it would have been nicer if
Kevin Owens had come out and thenthey attack him and beat him down and
leave him a bloody mess. Thatprobably wasn't an option for them or help.
Maybe they just felt like it waseasier to cut him up backstage and

(01:03:50):
have him come out already bleeding.But they went about it the way they
did. But I think the reasonfor it is, well, we can
tell you he's a badass. Wecan have McAfee or whomever screaming, oh,
he's a badass, he's this,he's that, Graves whoever. But
having people tell you it is onething. You have to see it as

(01:04:11):
well. My guess is that's whatthey're trying to do there. Did it
work to perfection? Yeah? Probablynot. But another few weeks of beatdowns
in other ways of telling you,whether it's just dominating matches of why he's
a bad ass, why this newbloodline is more intimidating than the old blood
like, rather than just throwing themall together. All right, they're better

(01:04:36):
now. Look Look how big Solois. Look he brought in Tonga.
Oh my god, here's another Samoancoming in. Here's Jacob Fatu, Holy
crap. Yeah. Yeah, that'sjust kind of how I feel about it,
is Ah and and maybe I describedthis wrong. It's like Shinsky Nakamoura
came over from Japan, right,would you say that Shinsky Knackimoor today is

(01:04:58):
recognizable from sin Sky Nakamura New Japan. No, that's why I try to
forget who Tomatonga is, because wouldyou say that Shinsk and Nakamura today is
recognizable to the Shinsky Nakamora they madeus get used to in NXT. WWE
has a repeated pattern of recreating thesepeople as their own entity from the feetus

(01:05:21):
stage. Basically, that's why Isaid I was trying to forget who he
is because you could tell me he'sa badass. You could have told me
that these other guys were badass,but they like to recreate from the ground.
So I almost now looking at aww new signee try to have a
Blake's slight, not knowing nothing aboutthem, so I'm not disappointed if they

(01:05:44):
are radically different than everything we've seengetting to know them for decades. And
that's probably smart because I would alsotell you that WWE Shinsk Nakamura is a
bigger star than any version of himanywhere else, including New Japan and where
he was putting on better matches andgetting more stars beside his name and those

(01:06:05):
matches and all that. But he'sa bigger star even and I hate what
they've done to him. He's abigger star being a Putts in WWE than
he ever was in New Japan.Oh, yes, because people like WW
more than New Japan. WW makesmore money than New Japan. All of
that is business stuff. It's froman artistic perspective that I'm speaking of.

(01:06:28):
It's unrecognizable. And did he winthe other night or did he lose?
He lost? You're fine with winsand losses because they don't matter, and
it's a theatrical sport. It's justwhen you saw a guy that was headlining
wrestler kingdoms having five star matches,you didn't expect him to come over and

(01:06:49):
long for that guy because that artistryis gone. Wins and losses do matter,
and I know you know that atthe end of the day. Yes,
it is a work sport. You'renot going out trying to but somewhere
along the way, wins and lossesdo matter. For a perfect example,

(01:07:09):
we were just talking about Solo.Why don't you like Solo because you never
see him beat anybody he doesn't haveto win every match, but every now
and again he's got to get awin or he's just no good. That's
the mindset you get. It's theway I feel with Nakamora, you know,
because he never beats anybody, andthen you bring him back and you

(01:07:31):
expect me to take him seriously.I've seen this before, I know how
it plays out. I can't takethis seriously. And also just right now
me with Solo Soka, take awaythe physical look of Solo Soca, and
just think of the operation that we'retalking about, Like the x's and o's,
this is JD McDonough all of asudden leading the judgment day. It's

(01:07:56):
the lowest guy on the totem pole, all of a sudden is the man
because we said he's the man,and and and they did a lot of
detriment to me for Solo Soca.And I understand. I agree with you
on that Jimmy should have did it. Jimmy should have did it. I'm
sorry. Main event, Jauso.I think Jimmy should have taken a lot
more l's in this whole period thanwhat he did. I don't I don't

(01:08:18):
disagree at all Micah. I thinkthe reason he didn't is because you split
the usso's well, j right,Jay's main event. Jay. Well,
we can't have Jimmy just be aPutts now, so he can't be the
guy taking all the pens. ButI agree with you, there's enough family

(01:08:39):
members this is a bad idea.They really just needed to dig one more
up to make a loser. No, no, no, but yeah,
and then that's where it's hard tosay wins and losses do matter. Because
you flip a switch and WW SoloSoca three wins after twenty losses, he's

(01:08:59):
gonna be a prime position. No, but this is why wins and losses
do matter, because if enough fansfeel the way you do. And by
the way, while I disagree withyou, you're not wrong. Everything you
said is one hundred percent accurate,and it's something I complain about with different
wrestlers at different night. If youkeep telling me someone doesn't matter by having
them lose every week, then youcan't expect me to care when you put

(01:09:24):
them in a big, bigger position. So you're not wrong at all.
But if enough people feel like that, it won't get over and at some
point in time, no, matterhow bad they wanted to get over,
they don't have to pivot. Anddoes it also And this is in a
direction that we never talk about becauseI don't watch an XT, You don't
watch an XC that much. Isaw a highlight the other day of Final

(01:09:45):
Testament ruling over the tag team divisionand NXT does it also just at some
point bury an act when you loseon WrestleMania and the next time we see
them show up as NXT. Yeah, yeah, Like, why are you
storming NXT after losing at WrestleMania.I think that, Well, there's a

(01:10:05):
lot of great things that Triple Hhas done. I don't think that moving
some of the stars so much backand forth from NXT that have main card
aspirations has been a good thing forthem, like specifically authors of paying carrying
gross stick them there, let themfloat, sink. I think out a
point with you on that. Howdo you tell me a title doesn't matter

(01:10:28):
without actually telling me a title doesn'tmatter? Uh ww does that in a
lot of different ways with the women'stag team titles not being a part of
WrestleMania, with the women's is itworld title or is it the women's WWE
title just being up for grabs ina Battle Royal, a Battle Royal when

(01:10:49):
you need to crown a new championand you're like, ah, fuck it,
let's just do a Battle Royal,which is what they did on Raw
this week after Rhea had to vacateher title due to injury. Hey,
great, Becky Lynch is back aftertaking all three weeks off, and that's
great. But battle roy that that'sreally how we're gonna deciding. It's just

(01:11:13):
Battle Royal. It felt weird wedid Becky just kind of showing back up.
I felt like there needed to besome more announcement of her presence and
not to mention this speaks to theoverall not lack of depth, but what
they've done to make that depth matter. We had all these women in this

(01:11:36):
Battle Royal, and you didn't knowit was coming down to Nayah Jacks,
Live Morgan and Becky Lynch, Likethere were only three women in that match
that mattered. It was. Iwould have rather them just done a three
way match, but between those three, you know. But yeah, whatever
it played out how it did.Becky Lynch getting wrecked outside was interesting for

(01:11:59):
a little little bit. Being ableto take some time off probably wasn't fully
expecting to be back in the ringthis quickly. Becky Lynch was the obvious
choice because she's the obvious one thatlooks like a champion and can hold this
belt. It just now ponders thequestion, what do you do with this
Naya Jacks Live Morgan situation? Doyou make this, say a three way

(01:12:23):
situation for Becky Lynch going forward aboutthe belt that she regressed right back to
fighting Naya Jacks because you would justvisit this, or do we quickly have
this insane Live Morgan take out NayaJack somehow so that we get a little
freshness in this drink and it's liveversus Becky Because again, for as many
women are we're in that match,there's not a lot of story, a

(01:12:45):
lot of build, a lot ofcharacter to go off of forward for all
You're right, and therefore I donot care about the answer to your question.
My guess I will answer your question. My guess would be, yeah,
they're gonna go back to Naya Live. Morgan will be in the mix
as well, but yeah, it'sgonna be more the same. But without
telling me, wwe told me theydon't really care about this title because they

(01:13:08):
crowned a new champion in about Royal, So same way with a look the
tag team titles, and that's greatthat everybody's getting new belts. But when
you just randomly separate the unified tagteam titles at WrestleMania and make no mention
of the fact that that could orwould happen until it actually happened, it

(01:13:28):
tells me you didn't put a lotof thought into it, so you didn't
care, So I don't care either. Just like we need to clarify.
I now believe I heard Cody Rude'sRhodes undisputed WWE champion. According to Corey
Graves. I've heard him carled theWorld's champion, and as far as I
remember going in for months for thelongest title reign ever, Roman Reigns was

(01:13:54):
the WWE Universal Champion. We hadrawch Champions and SmackDown Champions. We now
appear to have a WWE Tag TeamChampion and a WWE World Tag Team Champions.
But if Cody Rose is the undisputedWWE Champion, shouldn't Damian Priest dispute

(01:14:15):
that because he's the WWE Heavyweight Championof the World. So some is disputed
here in these titles, and wehaven't even clarified what the women's champions are
because one is probably the undisputed WWEchampion and one is the women's heavyweight champion,
but they haven't went far enough totell us what which one's what.

(01:14:35):
You're not wrong on any of this. I refuse to participate because it's so
absurd. Your point is incredibly valid. It drives me crazy as well.
That's that's why I can't get intothis is because for stupid again, right,
because it will, it will driveme crazy. And you thought I
rant and raved at your house theother night watching the pay per view over

(01:14:57):
ex Caliber talking about this isn't alistable defense. He's trespassed, Now,
why the fuck's the match continuing?And I went on and on and on
about that same thing could happen hereand we probably don't need another half hour
of the podcast me doing that,so but WWE went and hit the big
reset button once again, is whatwe got told, basically, and that

(01:15:18):
leads us into this week where Ibelieve on SmackDown, does is it this
week or next week? We dostart the ww draft? I believe coming
up we do have the draft comingup. Yeah, that'll be great.
Wrestlers get drafted to do brands thatthey don't stay on. Again, I
see what you're trying to do here, Micah. I'm not falling for it
all. All I'm trying to sayis is there's times that we've talked about

(01:15:41):
Damn you, Tony Kahan, youcan't call it stupid. At a point,
enough is enough. Look, theratings are hurting, and it's still
this this this magic that you andI could have this conversation and let's leave
the existence of w of AEW evenout of this, but wwe could do
this stuff and they do this stuffand you can say it hurts our head.
Does it hurt the ratings? Doesit hurt the general consumer? No?

(01:16:04):
Not really. It probably lies don'tactually matter in all of pro wrestling,
and we have to start to rememberthat bad storylines and all of this
is not making sense. You arecorrect. Excuse me. That seemed like
a good segue as far as thingsdon't matter. U. Sorry, that

(01:16:28):
was so mean of me. ButTNA had whatever the fudge their pay per
view was on Saturday. Not thatthat didn't matter. The point I was
getting to the return of broken downMatt Hardy to TNA broken Matt Hardy.
Oh no, I'm pretty sure Isaid it right the first time. But

(01:16:49):
yes, broken Matt Hardy, Iapologize. Is back in TNA. Moose
did get past Nick Nemeth, soyou all have that to look forward to,
not to mention. Mike Santana comesout and answers the call from Maclin,
so we have his return, andthen Sammy Callahan also back in the

(01:17:12):
building. Sean Merriman getting involved helpingJoe Hendry defeat I mean helping aj Francis
and Rich Swan defied jo Hendry.TNA. Man, If I'm TNA,
I'm changing Sammy Callahan's name to TommyCallahan. I'm curious if you get that
or not. I do, okay, because that's who the fuck he looks

(01:17:34):
like. He looks like fucking ChrisFarley and Tommy Boy. If you can
only pump the brakes and sell themto Yes, yes, I expect him
to be stuck on a sailboat inthe middle of the damn pond the lake
and there's no wind blowing, andthen he has to ask his dad to

(01:17:56):
send some wins so he can getback to shore. Sammy Callahan really didn't
like it. Offers to only bea producer and not get in the ring.
He wanted to be back in thering. He's back in the ring
TNA Access TV. It's still goingon. And at this point I can't
even understand the Matt Hardy appeal becauseit looked like it I with the part

(01:18:20):
in the hair that's now more partedbecause it's so thinning, and he didn't
look crazy. He kind of lookedlike he didn't know which way he was
looking out a hard camera. Istill like mustaf Allie and he is still
do not forget and Allie we believe. I guess I don't uh. For

(01:18:42):
the record, Matt already says don'tworry. I'm still a free agent.
If WW wants me, I canbe there. They've probably truth to that.
He probably didn't sign anything long termor anything exclusive with TNA, although
he may have. I will saythis for Matt, he is a promoter
of himself, and I actually meanthat. I realized that that could also

(01:19:04):
come off as a backhanded compliment.I actually mean it as a compliment compliment.
But in twenty twenty four, firstof all, T and A might
be the right place if you're featuringMatt Hardy in a significant role, don't.
I don't fault Tony khanfor not wantingto do that in aew I don't

(01:19:24):
see WWE being that interested in doingit now. There could be some business
with both the Hardy's for a shortperiod of time somewhere else, but this
is at this point, this isprobably as good as it gets for Matt
Hardy. Wake me up when wecan just celebrate the Hardy is going to
the WWE Hall of Fame. Andthat's enough Matt and Jeff for me for

(01:19:46):
now. All right, anything elsewe need to hit on a Micah.
That's everything for me this week.You want to talk more pro wrestling,
hit me up on Twitter or theX depending on your old school and new
school what you call it. Andthat's at frankel My the last name and
then the first. The show isat PW After Hours. I am at
real Mike Carlisle. We will talkto you next week for another episode of

(01:20:09):
Pro Wrestling After Hours. You're onthe After Hours podcast network.