Ep 305: AEW Forbidden Door Recap. WWE Clash In Paris Preview. Latest News.

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
What's up? Everybody? Welcome back. It is Pro Wrestling after Hours.
I'm Michael Carlisle Joint as always by Micah Franko. Micah,
what's shaken? Man?

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Will Ospray?

Speaker 1 (00:16):
If he's lucky, I guess, I guess poor will Ospray.
They kill me this fuck out of him?

Speaker 2 (00:25):
The fuck? Oh they did a number on that man.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
All right, you brought that upright at the beginning. Damn you, Micah,
for all ae w does. Right, if you're gonna do
the injury angle at the end, maybe not spend the
last two weeks Ospray telling any and everybody who are listening,
my neck is fucked up, but I gotta have surgery.
It kind of cheapens the moment when you do the

(00:51):
stretcher job at the end to explain his absence when
you've already and I get it, you wanted the big
send off in London, so I mean, I understand, but
maybe you don't do that at the end, or if
the plan is to do that at the end, you
don't tell everybody I gotta go have surgery after this.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
You don't do that. I think that it would have
been a better storyline angle to have not said, this
is a blacked out, no holds bars, not because I
can't get cleared, but it needed to be that Darby
Osprey and Death Writers hate for each other had went

(01:31):
to a level that it was uncontrollable. So this is
gonna be without w or without AEW having any kind
of liability. I think that would have been a bitter
angle rather than I'm not here because my neck is
fucked up. You can just went on fucking vacation after
the crazy shit he's done. Came back said, I helped

(01:54):
hang man and now I gotta I guess still finish
off the Death Writers because they won't stop you. There
was no reason to do the angle in the manner
that they did. It did cheap in the moment. The
injury should have been a surprise. I don't think we
needed to know that Will Osprey was injured. I think
he could have just set him banged up from a match.
I'm taking a couple of weeks off, I come back
to fight the Death Riders. The Death Riders nearly kill him,

(02:17):
and that's why he's gone, and you're still gone because
the original injury. It just doesn't cheap in the moment,
Like you said, that we already knew he was going
to be gone, but there was a holy shittness to hey, look,
his teammates are letting him have his moment, and then
Claudio comes in out of nowhere like a fucking train.
But my bigger problem was the fact that the guy

(02:38):
that climbed Everest couldn't climb over the freaking cage. And
it almost seemed like if you saw on the side,
uh Hobb started to climb hopway up and then somebody
told him stop doing it and he jumped down, because
it seemed like the easiest thing would be for all
of them to climb over the cage like Marina just.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Did, right, But the death Riders were there hitting their
hands when they were trying to climb the cage. It actually,
if you go back and watch.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
It, it did make sense, right.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Like almost like the Marina did it just to show
that could be done. But yeah, that they had that
the kindow sticks and whatnot. That, yeah, they were hitting
the face's hands as they were trying to climb up.
In some ways, it made sense. Now again, you could
have split up and went around the cage divide in common,
but maybe they couldn't have gotten all of you. If

(03:24):
somebody could have got over.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Or like the doctor was yelling, left the cage, left
the gauge. The Bucks aren't EVPs anymore. They're not keeping
the cage down. Which the Bucks really had nothing to
do with that last assault. They were just kind of
laying there on the outside, like, what's happening? Guys?

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (03:41):
How worthless are they? Dude?

Speaker 1 (03:44):
No, they were an integral part of that. I had
no problems with them.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
I just don't think it benefits the Death Riders from
teaming with the young Bucks because they continually lose. That
was more my point.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Well, I mean, somebody's got to take the loss.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
No, we just went in saying, you know, we need
these guys to win. But it does make sense.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
You can't make you a part of every match and
have him take the loss.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
It did make sense that will Ospray needed to go
out on top. It was tana Hashi's uk send off.
The man can barely walk, we're trying to give him
a last or off.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Did you see him trying to climb the damn ladder
during the match. Oh my god, I don't know how
he got up to do the splash off the ropes.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Very gingerly, very genus. Yes we're not talking about redheads.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
No no, no, no, no no no.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Let me ask how do you feel about that cage
match though, the new Japan style cage match where it's
like this all encompassing of the ringside area, so you
have that multiman chaos because you can't fit that just
in the ring with the traditional cage match.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Right. I was fine with it. You're gonna have that
many people, give him a little more room to work.
What I didn't understand why they had the whole entrance
ramp lined with the tables on each side of the
railing outside right out. But then you drop the cage
and you can't get to those tables, So what the

(05:11):
fuck's the purpose of the tables?

Speaker 2 (05:13):
And we found out well we did, we did, but
I mean they should have been inside. It should have
been plunder, I guess, just everywhere.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, yea yeah, yeah, yeah, yea yeah, plunder, plunder.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
What's this? Look?

Speaker 1 (05:24):
If there's one knock on aw pay per views and
I'm not gonna knock it, it's Oh, they're too long,
they're too many matches. Counting pre show, you had thirteen
matches and I was there for all of it. But
I bring this up because as I'm looking to this
weekend WWE clash in Paris, as we record right now,
there are five matches announced. I suspect there will be six,

(05:46):
but they're five right now.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
I feel that both events and you can know how
wrong fit the value that then general audience is charged
to watch it. You're not really charged anything to watch
Peacock right now, depending on how you get it, and
at most what you charge ten dollars, ten dollars for
five matches and one month ain't bad. And I mean
you take that on the other side, you get triple

(06:09):
the value and triple the price for me. AW, I
guess I makes sense.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, yeah, because you are still paying your fifty bucks
or whatever for the aw pay per views. So maybe
there's the feeling that we've got to over deliver into it.
But I just feel like five matches, six matches, that's
I got to stop what I'm doing to watch this
for that.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
And it's not five matches. We'll get into it this
weekend with this card. It's specifically those five matches. It's
the guy that texts me earlier this weekend that said,
I think this pre show might have been better than
some WWE Saturday nights. I mean it was. That's the

(06:56):
issue is that it's not that aw just over delivers
in matches. They over deliver in the quality of those matches,
sometimes too, a little more so for this one.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
Not all pre shows are created the same, and sometimes
you do get big Boom aj and other lesser than talents.
This fucking pre show was. You have the damn Ops
in the main event of the pre show defending the
Trios titles against.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
The tiny shawas well. Call them the war Dogs, man,
there's nothing dog about them.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
Dudes. Are the war Dogs the Japanese equivalent of the
Dark Order.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
Oh so, I'm pretty sure you already know this, but
we'll just to break it down for the people that
don't know. There was a Bullet Club in New Japan.
The Bullet Club got infiltrated kind of by evil, and
Evil created his House of Torture. The Bullet Club is
defunct now, and half of them became House of Torture
and everyone else became the war Dogs. The three members
of the War Dogs we got here are more like

(07:57):
the Cruiserweight Division segment the War Dogs. So yeah, they
end up looking like these three are the Dark Order,
but they're slightly stronger than that in New Japan.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
Okay, they sure seem less than on the pre show.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Okay, So we can get into the New Japan conversation
real quick because it's just a shame for them that
over the last decade, I think there's like nineteen high
end talents for what they were doing that had been
lost and it's almost irreplaceable in that echelon when you

(08:32):
think of from Fimn Balory, aj Styles Cody, everything that
the Bullet Club has lost to all just the Japanese
guys that have lost. So when we end up doing
a card like this, you're kind of searching thinking what's
left in New Japan and guys like Tana Hashi, Taka Hashi,
Naito are unfortunately getting older, and we still got some

(08:54):
of the best like Zach Saber Junior that they had
and Gabe Kid, but New Japan has just not been
able to replicate what they lost in Jay White and
Will Ospray and Kazushka Okada and Shinske Nakamura, in Jeff
Cobb and Kyle Fletcher. Kyle Fletcher was a guy that

(09:17):
they were probably looking at as a j White, you
may leave one day, but we're going to get to
see your next level of succession to get to that
star plateau, and AEW has intersected it. It was early
WWE took away a lot of the talent, and now
it's been ae W putting in a place where you're like,
are the war Dogs lesser or not? And they're kind

(09:40):
of the best of what's left of their young generation
that they're trying to build up.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah, they are in a little bit of a rebuilt phase.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
And you saw that really in the four by four
match wherea youma Are got the victory and you can
see he's already said it, I'm gonna be the next
ton of Hashi. I'm gonna be the ace. I'm taking
that torch and I'm trying to run with it. And
I think that's why he got the victory, because AW
was like, well, if this is gonna be your next guy,

(10:14):
at least let's get a rub to your next guy.
And that stood out for me from the pre show
is that it's a huge transition phase for New Japan
and the war As we said, they came out feeling
less and in Japan they do feel bigger and stronger
because they're against the cruiserweight division. But Joe and Hobbes
just damn how they manhandled them. That was beautiful.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
It was, It was. But yes, the pre show, if
you want to look at it this way, and since
I think I was the person you were talking about,
the pre show was better than any Saturday Night's made
event since that's come back, and if we're being completely honest,
the pre show was probably better than several WWE pls,

(11:00):
not Your Mania's, not your Summer Slams. I'm not suggesting
that it might wind up being a whole lot better
than Clash in Paris is this weekend. I just again,
they don't necessarily load up all the pre shows quite
like this, but this one was effing loaded and I'm
pretty sure they set some sort of record for the
number of wrestlers that actually participated on the pre show.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Michael Oakie gets his moment in front of his home crowd,
walking out in front of eighteen thousand people and then
got absolutely assaulted and flipped out of a ring. That
was beautiful, hallacious Darby Allen level of taking bumps, and
I'm glad to see Ricochet and goa I think this
happened on Collision. I wish hot they got a victory,

(11:45):
and then they come out here and they do it
again on a big stage.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
And then then, as we'll do later, a factor into
the tag title match pretty significantly, so.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Huge for GEO.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, because my first thought was, wow,
poort Ricochet's on the damn pre show, and then I'm thinking, well,
this is a pretty damn loaded pre show. Hell the
ops are on the pre show and then you see
him again. But yeah, I thought that was a really
good match. The opening match with Crew and the don
Kallis family versus El Desperado and uh you were I

(12:19):
thought what was really good as well?

Speaker 2 (12:21):
I wonder what okay? So I love all the storyline
that we're able to build from this because Roder Strong
he's cool with you, Mora, he's cool with El Desperado. Man,
does he get some feelings when he sees ech E?
I wonder what's going on there?

Speaker 1 (12:35):
I get some feelings when I see ech E two.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
You know, I really liked like the opening, like three
notes to his entrance music. Yeah, that's that's about the
best part of it. I thing is that entrance music.
But I think there's a lot to build on with
what's happening here, with the dissension of some sort of
conglomeration in Paragon peril. I don't know, and it's interesting,

(13:00):
just like I don't know if it interests me or not.
Are you ready for another go round of what's gonna
happen with the continuation of this long story m storytelling
of the demise of the friendship of Willow and Statlander.
They end up bumping into each other. This gives Megan
Being the opportunity to kill Harley Cameron with that huge
Liger bomb. And I think that we're still seeing this courtship,

(13:25):
and I know we make a lot of fun of him.
Wheeler Dah's interactions with Chris Statlander crack me up.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
They make me cringe that Now, what did crack me
up on? Collision is? Yeah, stat Lander can't get her
money and John Moxley just walks into the buck dressing room,
comes back out with an envelope.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Here stuff from that stuff down their pants.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
He just don't. I think it's because I want you
to be more like Claudio and to a lesser extent
mox And he's just not so he is like that's.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
About the weather, though, bro.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
I just I don't Maybe it's just not what I
want out of you to. If you like it, I
mean that that's fine. I I could do with I
like Statlander, I like Willow. Look either be friends, don't
be friends to let's not beat around the bush.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Eventually, stat Lander ends up in the Death Riders and
a tag team with Marina Wall. Willow's gonna tag with
Harley Cameron. It's gonna be a pre show tag match.
But I think this is where we're leading to on
another pay per view.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
You're probably right, because sooner rather than later, we're gonna
get women's tag team titles. Tony Kan has already said
not for injuries. We probably already have them. I've had
the belts for a while now. So yeah, and I
think you've seen that with a Triangle of Madness, and
you've seen some of the other women factioning up if
you will a little bit. Yeah, it's probably a foregone conclusion.

(15:05):
I did get a kick also when sat Lader got
her money. Harley Cameron talking about you know, nobody plays
the puppets anymore. Yeah, there's a little dig there, a
little mystery. Iguana and Finn Balor, but I thought it
was funny. Yeah, the women's match on the Zero Hour
was fine for what it was. That is a problem

(15:26):
when you have that many people matches. Well, was that
a sixth person or four and four whatever it was
four and four. There's a lot of shit going on
and everybody's trying to do their stuff. I thought it
was fine. They closed out Zero Hour with the Ops
and Bullet Club war Dogs, who I'm glad they're over,

(15:52):
like Rover in Japan, because now, look, this was also
more about the Ops, so maybe that was it as well.
I was not all that impressed with the Wardogs, though I.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Agree with you big up to the Ops. We'll talk
more about them, I think here later probably. So I
had fun over on the pre show. I loved it.
We get to the main cards starting.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
And.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
I don't know why, but every time the crowd starts
singing Cope's music, it kind of hits me because it
looks like each time he hears it, you can kind
of see the emotion in his face of for so
long that he had lost that due to the injuries,
and how much the appreciation from the fans, Like there's
some guys that we see in boxing or other sports

(16:36):
where they feed off the energy of the crowd, and
I feel like Cope really does that.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Maybe I'm incredibly naive and that's very possible, but it
seems very genuine when the crowd sings his song, whereas
like with Cody, it doesn't for to be fair to
Chris Jericho for a while, it did with Judas then,
but then it was part of the right. Oh, I
guess we got to sing the song now, you know,
but like it was part of the act. It's still

(17:03):
new enough. I guess that it seems genuine, and Cope
plays it off well enough, like he's surprised by it
and touched by it and all that. It'll probably wear
out like every other time, Rolin's whomever. And I'm not
knocking any of those guys, but I'm just saying it's
still fresh enough that it's it seems genuine.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Both of us hate a lot of this because it
was too rushed. There needed to be a lot more
marination for the reunion of Cope and Christian. How do
you feel though, with this odd couple we know each other,
we can't trust each other. Kind of relationship that they're
portraying right now.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Then when they shook hands postmatch, and then Copeland brings
it in for the whole Christian's facial expressions were phenomenal.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Oh it's icky, It's like he had germs like hoodies.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, exactly. I'm fine with all that. This just could
have been done so much much better. I don't know
if we'll get to this this week. Maybe it's not
until next week. We'll see how it goes. But with
Osprey out, swear strickling out, you're short on babyface, main eventters,

(18:17):
this storyline, the reunion and all that could have carried
you if done correctly, through these injuries right a months.
It just they rushed the hell out of this, and
I think they missed a golden opportunity to make a
boatload of money off the reunion of Copeland and Christian. Yes,

(18:39):
you could have done so much more with this, but
look we're past that now. I like that they tease
kill Switch, just kind of doing his own thing. But
I guess now instead of being berated by Christian every week,
he'll just be berated by Mama Wayne and Nick Wayne when
he comes back.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
And so are Kip taking one to the eye get
him busted open and fought through it again. That level
of toughness for Kip. When does Jack Perry come back,
because that was obviously Jack Perry in that shitty corduroy,

(19:19):
Not corduroy but jean jacket, black jean jacket that he
always wears. Who was medicating up and keeping Lucasaurus alive
in that beautifully done vignette.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Holy shit?

Speaker 2 (19:30):
Can we get more vignettes from aaw that vignette with Lucasaurus,
the ones with Bandido.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Holy fuck, Tony Kahn, kill Switch man kill Switch.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Whoever is doing those post backstage produced empower them much more.
That shit is awesome.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
I agree, I agree, And yes, the Jurassic Express needs
to come back. Jack Chuck, bring back what was the
little boy that hung out with them?

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Marco Stunt?

Speaker 1 (19:56):
Marco Stunt, bring him back to damn it and people.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
That's just on this my head because we were talking
about it this past weekend. Don't think I'm stalking Marco Stunt.
I knew that way too fast for any normal wrestling family.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, the T and T Championship, if I'm being completely honest,
I found to be a little disappointing. U Takahashi just
doesn't do it for me, and if he does it
for you, that's great. I realize I'm probably in the
minority on that, but I was just waiting for Fletcher

(20:28):
to be disassed and get it over with.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
That's how I was for the first part of the match.
But there was a couple dives dives outside power bombs,
so I was like, oh, these are some oh shit moves.
Never thought Fletcher was in any danger, but the match
was enough fun and I understand it from the thought
process that this wasn't an AEW event. This was an
ae W New Japan event. This was the New Japan audience.

(20:50):
This also stream live on the njpworld dot com. For
that audience that remembered Kyle Fletcher as a young boy,
to see him to this match to beat the shit
out of heromu. I think that was a big moment
for him that a lot of us wouldn't recognize, but
I think it didn't mean something in Japan.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
I think you're probably right on that TVs Championship match.
I enjoyed that. Damn Bozilla is imposing.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
I was glad to see everyone get over, get their
stuff in and to be a bigger Mercedes. I think
that Mercedes was a secondary thought, as he should have
been to getting all these young talents over and then,
like the heel should do, She's able to worm in
come out on top, but she did not steal the
show from Bosilla, from Pristephanie really having a moment, even

(21:42):
Alex Wender getting a lot of the love from her
home crowd. I thought that this was really well orchestrated.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
Agreed, I knew I would, but I enjoyed the hell
out of Zach Saber Junior and Nigel McGinnis. It seemed
a little short to me, but again, you had thirteen
matches on the card. No disrespect to either one of these,
but there are a lot more important things happening on
the cards, so I get it. Also, McGinnis at this

(22:09):
point is working once twice a year, so to expect
him to go too long probably asking a bit much.
But I thought it was really good. You did what
you wanted to do. You established Zach Saber Junior for
the American audience who maybe isn't as familiar, and like

(22:30):
you said, this not just an aw event, It's a
New Japan event. It's a CMLLL event. You know, start
am part of this as well and others this It
did exactly what it should have done.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Did everything that it should have done. There was just
one thing that I expected to happen did that did
not happen.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
I'm surprised they didn't as well. I assume you're referring
to why didn't Daniel Garcia turn on Nigel McGinnis.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Shit two things?

Speaker 1 (22:57):
Okay, what'll the other? Takashna.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Takeshna needed to appear because Takeshna won the g one,
he is going to challenge Zach Saber Junior next. I
almost expected Takeshna to attack Daniel Garcia for Takeshna to
come out and face off with Zach Saber Junior. And
you're right the angle of having Daniel Garcia, it looks

(23:20):
like that's now been contrived to put together some friction
between Daniel Garcia and Zach Saber Junior. Tony con did
alude that they will be back in the UK in December.
I wouldn't be surprised if it comes full circle that
we get ahead to head then. But I thought Garcia
would turn on Nigel throwing the towel some way to

(23:42):
bone Nigel because why was he out there just to
draw fiction later with Zach Saber Junior. And also I
thought that the referee made Garcia way too big of
part of the match, and the commentary was in on it.
For I think Garcia needed to be more animated, more
pushing his boundaries over the ropes. I didn't think he

(24:03):
was doing enough to get admonished as much as he was,
but I know that's the story. I just think that
he failed to deliver the necessary energy to get what
they were giving.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Aw has the worst referees in history, more so in
other places in this match, but look, I get it,
it's pro wrestling, but god damn their referees are terrible, terrible.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
We got what I was feeling when the referee is
going out of his way to like Garcia, and I'm like, Bro,
you don't even ever look at stokely.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Backup, we've got new tag team champions, Brodido defeats the
Hurt Syndicate and FTR, and this is where we had
Ricochet and the Gates of Agony show back up, hood
it up to take out the Hurt Syndicate and.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Wearing new Japan Dojo jumpsuits, so we thought Japan was
jumping in and they get unmasked. I love that because
you don't know. Did MJF hire them because he's mad
because we just saw Goa working with MJF in the
Brisco scenario. Or was this just because Hertz Syndickett had
already told rickychet to kind of flip off when he

(25:16):
first met them. There's so much backstory that there could be,
But I think there's a lot of speculation that this
is gonna lead nowhere.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
We might not be seeing the Hurt Syndicate for a while, you.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
Think, like the rest of their contract.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
I don't know. Maybe. I mean, look, there's a lot
of rumors out there about maybe they're not the easiest
to work with, that they didn't want to lose clean
to FTR, so that's why they made this a triple thur.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Oh yeah, because aaw has gone out of their way
to make you look so weak. I mean, they've done
everything that could have been over back where it's to
elevate Shelton to the level of Bobby Lashly. I feel
like in this industry there has to be a I think,
and it's disappoint to hear they're not aligned with that theory.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Right, I think? Dare I say, Sheldon Benjamin at this
point at AW seems like the bigger star than Bobby Lashley.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
Bobby Lashley has been really quiet and withdrawn throughout this
and almost feels like a ward Low presence versus a
superstar presence. You know, more of that? That body goes, oh,
should I bring up some of that return? We didn't
even bring that one up. My bad. We'll get there
in a second. But you know what I mean, that's
the kind of energy I feel like Lashly was giving off.
We kind of said it. The T shirts didn't get

(26:32):
printed without a reason. Broddo, Broddo, Broddo. Do you think
this was always the plan? Do you think that the
friction with the Hurt Syndicate led to this audible? I'm
not upset to see it. This is just like the
last scenario I thought. I thought that Broddo was there
to lose to FTR.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
I think this was the plan. I really do. And
here's what look FTR. I'm assuming it is going to
go into feuding with with Copeland.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
And Christian That woult of sense, right.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
This allows you to establish Brodido as another tag team.
If Hurt Syndicate is sticking around, you've got MJF. You've
now got gates of agony and uh that ricochet. So
you can establish some other tag teams while these other

(27:28):
teams are off doing other things, and you can really
beef up your tag team division.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
So I think they've done a really nice job, even
with Jet Speed with the Outrunners, they've done a nice
job of reassembling the tag team division. Aw in their history,
I think they've done that at least two or three
times now. They've done a good job of re establishing
the division. And I think that overall, and we're gonna

(27:56):
get to this later because of the injuries, but I
think the constant injuries of Bullet Club Goal has really
derailed a lot of plans or what could be plans.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yep Okada defended the Unified Championship against Werth Strickland. They
take out Strickland afterwards because he's off to have surgery.
At least with him, they just talked about he had
been dealing with a knee injury, but they didn't like
Foretel Oh, he's gonna have surgery after this and be
out for a while. So that postmatch beatdown made a

(28:24):
little more sense. We saw the DoD Kallis family grow
by yet another member, with Wardlow making his long anticipated
return to the company.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
They're eleven deep. Now it's eleven men deep.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
I don't know if it's I don't know if it's
not more than that.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
If we still consider Cage and Mark Davis in there
like you think about it Takeshna Fletcher, Ocada, Hetche Zero,
Josh Alexander Archer, Wardlow, now Mark Davis, uh Brian Cage,

(29:02):
Trent Barretta, Rocky Romero, Don Caallus himself in May twelve.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
Are the Bucks part of the don Kallis family or
are they just associates that part?

Speaker 2 (29:13):
We don't know, because then you would go fourteen Octa
does come out to help them on collision. Don Kallis
has hugged them, but they also have to sit in
their own dressing room. It doesn't look like they get
invited to dinner or anything, so I'm unsure. It'd be
nice to know because there's that Bucks connection. Where are

(29:34):
the death writer Bucks Callus family one big faction.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
I promise I'm not going to hijack the show, but
you mean to tell me with the eight hundred and
twelve members of the fucking Don Kallis family. You couldn't
squeeze Dan Housen's ass into that family. You couldn't remove
Rocky Romero and Trimp Barretta in favor of Dan Housen.
I mean, every God somebody else in the promotions are
part of the family.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
I don't think Don Kallas is going to accept someone
into the family who would be constantly trying to punch
him in the nuts.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
But he wouldn't because they'd be on the same side.
He'd be out there cursing their opponents, doing groin punches.
But I look, I digress, and I'm only kind.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
Of kroom for a funnier character than yo soy hetshay Serro.
I know that you are Housing at heart.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
You see, I'm holding my uh my dad Housing autograph
led the easy for me to say lithograph.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
But so, guys, we do have the sketch drawn up.
It's probably I think it's gonna be the left calf
where you're gonna end up seeing the Dan Housen face
paint outline on the back of Carlisle's leg. One day,
let's actually say Dan Housen just.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Let's let's not get crazy. But yeah, I mean fun
fuck rocket Romeiro's only got one. Goddamn I for crying out.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
Danils has got two where Bretta I.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
Don't know, but stopped but stopped saying his name because
you might beatle juice him into appearing and Mark da
or Joe Hendry him into appearing.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
I don't believe in that anymore. Yeah, I don't know that,
but yeah, there's a lot of callous family members and
now includes Wardlow too, who randomly repaired. So I guess
that means that American Gladiators we knew that because of
the miser's return to w W E is done filming.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
I would assume so more don kallus family members or
more different people on commentary on Sunday at Forbidden Door.
God damn, they rotated a bunch of people in and
out right we have the new Japan commentator.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Jim Ross got to sit down Brian Danielson and was there.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
I think Cabani Travanni ex caliber callous, like you said,
sits down.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
I think my favorite was Brian Danielson. I'm not even
fucking playing. I loved the good He's a different role,
except for when he tried to say that the new
Japan title was the most prestigious prize in wrestling, thank
you Excalibur for I would debate, well, what do.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
You expect him to say the title that the company
I work for as is the second best time, you know,
one of.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
The richest prizes in all of pro wrestling.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Danielson is different than a lot of color commentators. I
think I told you this in a text, and that
he doesn't seem like he's out there to get himself over.
He's actually trying to get over the guys in the
ring and the storyline.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
WUL need more of that because it was beautiful the
way he was hyping them up. He called people professional wrestlers,
he was talking about their strategy and mindsets. I really
did enjoy his commentary in a way that I haven't
anybody's in a while.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Now, as an homage to Taz. If he had worked
in a cheap shot Jones or something, I could have
appreciated that. But yes, he's actually just trying to further
storylines along and not try to bring the attention to himself.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
When Kallos was on commentary and they asked him to
do the Taz breakdown of a souplex. I was expecting
to just hear Scoop slam Jones. I thought he was
gonna go infringement right there, just Scoop slam Jones. You
want my an Elsies.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
Used to write Tony Storm retained the aw women's title,
meaning Athena.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Uh yes, because I don't know where we go from here. No,
because she's the biggest start in the company. Keep the
belt on her everything she dos his fucking goal. She
can dress up like a nineteen fifties fucking clown and
it's still amazing. Isn't that the attire that she was dawning.
Wasn't it wow? Or was that mime? I don't know

(33:41):
either way. I thought that match was amazing. It lived
up to the hype. But each of the last two
pay per views, I've thought if Tony Storm was going
to drop the title, Mercedes and Athena are adequate replacements
because they're ready to hold the belt for us to
do something with Tony's Storm. I'm just not sure where

(34:03):
the next story comes from, because in the Hangman MJFF story,
MJF still has the contract. Tony Storm is so far
above everyone. I'd rather see everyone else that is on
the roster in the tag team division. It's hard to
tell me where we go next for Tony Storm. That's
not her problem, that she's so much better than everybody,

(34:24):
but this match was great.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
The problem I think that aaw has on the women's side, like,
you don't have to have the belt on the men's
side and still be a feature if hypotheticaluse, Here's where
I think happens. Mercedes beats Tony Storm, Mercedes is forced
to relinquish the TBS title. You have a tournament crowned
new TBS champion, thekla Omegan Bain. Whoever's the next person

(34:48):
you want to build. What do you do with Tony
Storm at that point other than Chase Mercedes Monet? Uh, Like,
I don't know that you can put her in meaningful
things without the title being involved. I don't and maybe
I'm wrong on that. So I think it is an
interesting dilemma that they have. But I think that's how

(35:10):
you solve two problems. If you've got complaints about the
two women's singles titles being held up for so long, Well,
Mercedes wins and she's got a releakish one, and I
realize she's nine belts monette at this point, but in
aw you can't have two singles titles for the sake
of this argument. Now, on the men's side, you just
call them the unified Champion, right, but you get my point, Yeah,

(35:35):
it's I don't know what's who's next to challenge Tony
Storm because also we got like, we have a wealth
of women, but.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
You went through the best of them. Right now, there's
a lot of green in there. It feels like with
having thunder Roast that come down a level. Nyla Rose
is an afterthought. H Britt Baker no longer there.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
I mean she's still there.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Well, she's there, but she's there.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Like Dan Housen, Right, I don't know if she's there
like that. That was that thought right through my head
as well. And I wasn't gonna say I don't know
what the deal is there. I think they're on better terms.
I don't know why she's not being used. Maybe they're
not a.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Better chopportunity to have her come in and be a
ready made entity that can challenge and be believable to go.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Don't you think of either? Do on debuting on debuting
on collision.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
I think she's a good worker. I thought it was
all right. Megan Bain looks strong. There's someone you could
build around.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
We had Jamie Hayter return, Uh, we kind of skipped
over that at the pay per view she might be
in line for either Monette or Tony Song.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
I could see more money just because they bring her
back as a face, and I don't know if you
go face versus face unless she just kind of wins
a tournament to get at Tony Storm. But I kind
of missed the more aggressive Jamie Hayter that we used
to have when she was the heavy for Britt Baker.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
I miss Luthor. Please heal up, sir and come back soon.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
He was such a additive, never a negative.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yes, the Storm he adds to the whole package. She
doesn't need him when she's in the ring, obviously, But
so little surprised, although the way the show ended, I
get it now, but a little surprised the World title
match was not your main event because I mean, even

(37:44):
with anarchy and the arena back at double or nothing,
your main event was still the title match. But we
the title match goes on next to last. MJF hang
Man Adam page.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
How did you feel let's just go back. Let's let's
go back to was that collision or was that dynamite?
How did you feel about Tony Khan allowing GA and
MJF to take poor Mark brisco as a hostage and
threatened to engulf his body in flames. We know that

(38:17):
Tony Khan has a if it's not charged by the authorities,
I don't care kind of mentality when it comes to
Arson Tarby Allen's try to set people on fire. Heck,
Hangman Page burned down a whole house, So who fucking
cares if we set Mark Briscoe on fire?

Speaker 1 (38:33):
I think Mark bisco cared well, he did, But.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
I don't understand why AW allowed such a heinous act
of vitility a.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
A single not a single security person to be found
or remember.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
The goddamn coomeration, paragnation.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Until it's over it. Hangman runs to the back right,
smack dab, same spot with damn twenty security people standing
and they're holding him back. Yeah, the fuck's going on here.
I hated that just because hang Man setting a house
on fire. Aside, they weren't going to set Mark Briscoe
on fire. You were not going to touch it. This
ain't fucking Rikishi's promotion here, Okay, yeah, I'm sorry you went.

(39:17):
I don't Ron Simon's damn Yeah, I get it. Look,
it's wrestling, you suspend, disbelieve. I know they weren't setting
a grown man on fire. I did not like that.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
Tony Kahn has agreed to all the MJF stipulations because
hang Man agreed, we don't want to see Mark Brisco
on fire. No one will have any repercussions towards MJF
for what most people would call attempted murder.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
The match itself was really good. Yeah, it was until
the end. I'm fine that page one. I think we
kind of knew that. Yeah, we expected it. Here's the problem.
The fucking referee counted three. He was out cold. He

(40:03):
counts to three, immediately passes out again. When he wakes up,
he's like, you know, ten minutes later, Oh, hang Man's
legs on the rope, it must have been there when
I counted the pin. The match can't possibly be the
fuck is this shit.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
The same shit where the ref jumps all the way?
I fucking hate that ref. What is with his hopping? Well,
he counts it's a continual thing where he hops away
from the actual pin fall and he ends up like
in a position where he's like over here and the
pins behind the pin is behind him. It kills me

(40:41):
that he continually does it, and I do understand why
you would hate it. And I do understand also the
storytelling callback of oh MJF one by pulling a foot
off the rope that he never detected, so now he
loses because the referee finally detects it. Like you said,
the overacting, the passing out the foots on the fucking rope,

(41:04):
just acknowledge it when you're normally counting three. We didn't
need that over dramatic bullshit, agreed.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Now, look, this was different than most, especially pay per
view world title matches, where you get something that resembles
a clean finish. Now I'm okay with it because at
least in their world title matches, AW typically doesn't overdo
it with blatant cheating and stuff or chicanery. So so
I mean, I'm I was okay with it. I just thought,

(41:32):
do it in a way that's actually believable. It makes sense.
I thought they ruined a really good effort from Hangman
Adam Page and from MJF with a goofy fucking finish.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
It was a goofy finish, but I understood like the
dramatization of what they were trying to get across. And hey,
remember MJF didn't have to use this contract as we
allow Arson, so he's not like done with Hangman Page.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Well now and the post show media scrum, Tony Kain
did announce that from now on, when you have a
contract like that, you have to give a week's notice.
You can't just cash in. And it was for what
that's worth, which, by the way, also doesn't explain why
Athena had to use hers to get her match, but
never JF didn't have to. Now Athena didn't threaten to

(42:21):
set anybody on fire either, so I mean, maybe she
just doesn't have the drive and the desire to get
what she wants. I don't know. But whatever lights out,
Steel Cage, Tmospray versus the death Writers and the young Bucks,
some of this wasn't going to be for everybody, and
you probably should have expected that. I'll admit even I

(42:44):
was a little taken aback with the fork into the
ear of Darby Allen I'm like, I don't know that
we needed that.

Speaker 4 (42:50):
No.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
Look, it wasn't staple guns, it wasn't drinking anybody's blood,
it wasn't stabbing anyone in the mouth of the syringe.
But I don't know that I needed to see Moxley
jamming the fork into Darby Allen's ear.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
It definitely gave an optic the blood, the crimsworthiness. Oh
my god, they killed Darby throwing him around while he
was taped to the chair. How did the match not
end right there? And like a screaming out submission? I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
How do you go from dumping out the gummy bears
and doing the slam onto the gummy bears to I'm
going to fork you in the ear, mother forker.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
Gory to take it to a next level. By the way,
you gotta do something new.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
By the way, real gummy bears, crimea.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
River, freaking Moxley diving through a table that had barbed
wire attached to it. He's the man.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
If you're into those types of matches, he gave you
everything you wanted. If you're not, then it gave you
everything you didn't want. But you probably had that idea
going into it.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
I'm glad that Darby Allen only weighs eighty pounds. If
you weigh any more, he might have killed poor Gabe
Kid when he landed on when they went through those tables,
Like if that wasn't a lighted that light and slight
of a person that might have actually hurt gave Kid
when he hit the ground.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
There was a lot of things that probably hurt a
lot of people in that match.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Gave Kid's awesome. Oh well, yeah, I don't think him
away from New Japan. Is he on like a fifty
to fifty contract? How does he keep showing up?

Speaker 1 (44:25):
I think it's a fifty to fifty contract, but I
don't know. I don't know. Well I keep showing up
those forbidden door for crying out loud, Mike, come on.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
But he's a regular henchman of the of the Bullet Club,
which again I'm surprised that we didn't get like Choto
Yumeno showing up because he was the death writer apprentice
of John Moxley and just it being forbidden door, that
was one surprise I was looking for. Didn't see him
show up and play a role. So we lose the
heroes again prevail, but the Death Riders get to look

(44:55):
like some badasses because they basically maime will Ospray at
the So you got everything. We got our heroic moment,
our cheering moment. Ospray's entrance was epic, and then we
still could throw garbage and hate the moment at the
end because well, the Death Riders just horrendously went and
destroyed will Ospray's neck, will Ospray's neck, spur Strickland's knee,

(45:18):
ae W faces have been kicked in the junk.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Metaphorically speaking, Yes, that's gonna be an issue for aw
as well. I'm going to assume just because it's next
surgery Ospray, you're probably looking at roughly a year. You're
probably shooting for all in next year for his triumphant return,
maybe just before then, to build to it.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
Shit, I'd have him in a gauntlet match next year
in Wimbley.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
I think he's probably in a world title match next
year if he's healthy and comes back. Us are the
swerve six months.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
It's mcl or meniscus six to nine.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
Months, probably six to nine months. But you are light
at the top of the card for babyfaces.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
Just think about this, Adam Cole, j Whye, Orange Cassidy,
and Eddie Kingston also all on the shelf. Just to
add to the names that we're mentioning.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
I believe Kingston is probably somewhat close to coming back.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Thought he was going to return here at Forbidden Door.
He had been throwing a couple things out on social media.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
Orange Cassidy is a torn peck that's been months into April.
I think early May.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
I'd be surprised if he's four to five months out.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Probably, Uh. Jay White doesn't sound like he's very close
to coming back. Who knows if we see Adam Cole again.
And at this point, I don't know that Adam Cole
is in that upper echelon anyway.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Now he's a mid card guy.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Yeah, so yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
So what we have left on the table is Hangman, Cope,
Christian or tweenery Face I guess. And Darby Omega you
have he brings around with Bushi when he's there.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
But Omega this point is basically a pay per view wrestler.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Well, that's where I question. We're talking about Swerves gone
for six months, nine months? Can Omega do a little
bit more? Maybe promos? I'm not really thinking Max but
stuff to enhance storylines and to take up some TV
time just to be there because they're gonna need a presence.
But you're more likely, right. I think that the guys

(47:34):
that we need to look at Darby, Mark Brisco, and Brodido.
Brody and Bandido broken up or together, I think are
the next four guys to ascend to an upper echelon position.

(47:54):
And I got two wild cards if you want to hear.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
I agree with you on Brody King and Bandido by
the way, but yeah, I think you're gonna Wardlow. Had
he been brought back differently, maybe could have been that guy.
I actually like bringing him back with the Kallis family
a little more. Yeah, you said you had a couple

(48:21):
of wild cards, go for it.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Okay, I got three wild cards, and these first two
are much more likely to me one because he's obviously
getting over with the fans, even though he turns heel
midway through his promos. Max Caster seems to be kind
of getting in there, and I don't think he could
be a top guy. But if we're gonna elevate Adarby
a Brody somebody like that, he need the next guy

(48:42):
to take their mid card position. And I do think
that Max Caster could ascend a little bit higher than
where he is. Also throw out I don't know if
you could turn him face. But man, big Bill, when
he's overseas with those UK audiences, he connects, and there's
so many mos that are heels. There's so many guys

(49:02):
that haven't connected. I know that he's supposed to be
the heel in the in the story with the bulletup gold,
but could Big Bill tap in and go that other side?
And I don't know if we're ready for Scorpio Sky
to take on more as he's just coming back, but
those might be the next three guys I think of.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
I think Scorpio Sky is completely out of that. I
think how they're using him is probably how they're going
to use him. The idea of Big Bill is very intriguing.
I think you just got to be careful because you
don't want to expose the limitedness that he has in
the ring. I think it's easier to conceal that as

(49:40):
a badass heel, especially as part of the tag team.
But I don't hate that idea. The Max Caster best
case scenario low end of the conglomeration.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
Also high end of the conglomeration. Like I said, a
high and mid carter is my expectation on he He's
going to.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
Be somewhere below below is maybe on par with Ish
in the conglomeration.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Any chances you said them O'Reilly a strong? Could they
become a main event man? Or they too far down there?
Because I don't think that Kevin Knight or.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
Mike be able to can do it.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
I think maybe Kevin Knight a little could have a
higher than I think Mike Bailey, I unfortunately think there
are some limitations to his character.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think so, damn limited.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
Also the same thing with Hobbes, if he was even
a blaker way from the concom.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Hobbes and Joe Joe seems like it comes back for
two months, then least for three months. Now I know
he's wrapped up at least this latest season of Twisted
Metal or Awesome. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, So maybe
you got him for a while that the ops. It's
especially if it means you're doing more with Shabbata, who

(51:06):
outside of Okata, outside of Takeshka, might be the best
thing they've brought over from New Japan, but he doesn't
quite get used quite like that, so more op Man.
Yes that the Opskate can certainly and have that. They
were part of the double or nothing main event right
or Comaine the anarchy of the arena, So yeah, they

(51:30):
could certainly slide in there.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
They're an anarchy in the arena, and then they were
trying to come out to help well Osprey at that end.
So you do see a fringe in corporation, Yes, of
the ops. Are we gonna cringe and are we gonna
get way too much hologram and hook coming up? Uh?

Speaker 1 (51:48):
Well Hologram is twenty nine and oh or something.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Hey, you just get a promo and some Frank Sinatra
sounding music.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
We'll see, I don't know, we'll we'll see.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
Also, just throwing it out there that lower end, i'd
like to see more Michael Oku.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
I think we probably will, okay, And he's had some
appearances with the Ring of Honor. I think we probably
continue to see that. By the way, if you got
wider distribution for your Ring of Honor TV, like on
Max or something, you're Roddy Strong's in the world, you'r
Kylo Riley's that that's much like they've done with Athena

(52:32):
without the benefit of TV other than your honor club stuff,
you could really elevate that, you know, that talent to
the next level to come back in where there are
injuries or when it's time to freshen things up and
have people in higher spots instead of people that you're
having to do fifty to fifty booking with now at

(52:53):
best just because of the you know, the way the
roster is and everybody can't go out and win every week.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Can you remember where New Japan used to have Omega Codey,
the Bucks, j White, Okada, Ospray, she bought a Boosh,
She Fletcher, Davis, Cobb, Knockamore of the Good Brothers, Finn
Balor aj Styles and all the tongs look much better
over there.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Damn.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
New Japan really did have a lot that they did
for like a decade, and now that's flourishing all over
AW and.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
WW now Tony Khan has most of them.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Half those dudes I mentioned are also in WW. This
has been pulaged throughout the world. But there was a
moment where New Japan had done so much and and
now they're left with Zach Saber, Junior, Hiroki Goto, Evil Sonata.
It's a rebuild. They are. They are the NBA franchise
proverbally on a constant rebuild right now.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Yep, yep, yep, yep. All in all, I enjoyed the
heck out of all in a couple things that just
really forbidden him. For me, I mean forbidden door. I'm sorry,
thank you.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
I would open that door and rewatch it again now happily.
I enjoyed the whole experience. Yeah, no, I did as well.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
I'm curious how much I'm going to enjoy Clash in
Paris this weekend on Premium Live Events. This is this
gonna be the last Peacock show, No, I.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Thought, Okay, so I believe that they are good through
the rest of the year.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
I think. No. The show they invented to go against
All Out is the first show audio, and everything going
forward is audio.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
Oh, everything going forward. See, I thought that first one
invented was just to you know, stick some aw and a.
Because we just invented it, we get to take this
to a new company because we're not gone. This is
the end of Peacock already.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Yep yep that there might Now, there might be another
show before that. I'm not sure. But yeah, the the
the show going up against All Out is the the
first show of the esp of deal. Everything going forward
is on ESPN.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Yeah for WWE, Oh, I guess I do have to
figure out how to watch that.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
WWE September twentieth, so if we're in August, this might
be the last one then yeah, I don't. I don't
know if there's another PN Now, Saturday Night's made event
staying on Peacock as matter, right, they did a new deal.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
For that, and then that's exclusive on NBC.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
Right, Nope, that's exclusive on Peacock. Oh, it will not
be on ESPN, and I'm not on ESPN on NBC anymore. Oh,
it will be exclusive to Peacock.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
So we're reducing the audience that could see it.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Okay, you're making it a Peacock exclusive. Well, I know,
one man's exclusive is another man's shrinking audience.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Shrinking audience, limitations to be able to see it, A
couple different ways to put that up there. But they're
going to Paris. Paris has proved to love the WWE audience.
They pack out arenas, and I'm sure they're going to
and WWE's banking on it with what they're offering us
this weekend. I my first question is, actually no, I

(56:07):
don't even got a first question. I don't want to
go there.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
I don't even know what my first question is. Clash
in Paris PLA Peacock as we record five matches announced, now,
maybe that is it. I bet we get a six match.
A sixth match though, maybe Becky Lynch versus Nicky Bella

(56:29):
for the WWE Women's Intercontinental Championship. I'm going to assume
Becky Lynch is winning here, just because I don't know
that Nicky Bella is going to be back for anything
that resembles full time, so I don't know if you're
putting a belt on her. But regardless, I bet we
get a pretty good match here.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
I just really hope that they were not the ones
writing their lines on Monday Night. Becky Lynch not enduring
herself to the Osborne and family well, or the people
of Birmingham and well, all of the lame jokes that
Bella had written felt really beneath anyone's comedical ability.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
Well, yeah, I bet we get a pretty good match
in the ring. Michaeh Yeah, I hear you.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
I bet we get a match where Becky Lynch heavily
has to carry a BELLA let's go Becky.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
Probably so Seamus versus Russev in a good old fashioned
Donnybrook match, which I think would be the equivalent of
an aew meat match.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
Did you pay the ransom?

Speaker 1 (57:45):
I have paid no ransoms.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
I kind of note that we all needed to chip
in a little bit to pay the ransom to get
the gun away from Seamus's head that was held there
when he had to cut that god awful promo on
Monday Day night. Did this man actually say they're gonna
steal the show? He's now acknowledging it. It's a show.

(58:08):
That promo felt rough, and I'm not just talking about
the white room that highlighted that Seamus's skin blended in
with his white T shirt. But it all just felt
rough to me.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
I Oh, I got no problems with saying you're gonna
steal the show. Hell, you've never heard of UFC fighters
say that.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
No, I did, But you don't really hear. WWE performers
look at their spot on the card as an opportunity
to steal the show. They usually are more focused on
their storyline, the entanglement to competition.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
He's wrestling Ruseph Man. There's no storyline there exactly that.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
There's some there's some problems with this, and I feel
like the promo highlighted it, and the match is probably
gonna be better than everything I'm feeling about it because
there's a part of me that says it has to be.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
I hope to hell rusef wins, but I bet he doesn't.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
I really don't care. That's messed up.

Speaker 4 (59:01):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
You got Seth Rollins versus c and Punk versus Jay
Uso versus.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
La Knight Fatal four way Seth La Knight.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
I bet he pins see and Punk.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
I just feel like La Knight keeps coming up on
the short end of the stick. He's a forgotten man
and all of this.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
I guess Roman Reigns versus Bronson Reid it is not
a sneaker on a pole match, although it should be.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
I'll acknowledge that.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
If there's go ahead.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
Besides from a couple of sneak attacks, which I know
that's WWE'SMO to build up a character and to make
them look tough. There is nothing that they have done
with Bronson Reid that leads me to believe he can
at all compete with Roman Reigns, who's beat him a
couple of times. Good for Bronson Reed. I mean, I
told you for a long time I saw some Bam

(01:00:02):
Bam Bigelow and I think that even wwecs a lot
more you've been on the outs with him. I don't
know if this helps, but uh.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Get Bam Bam Bigelow's name out your mouth. Uh, Bronson
Reid could not carry Bam Bam Bigelow's shoes.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Well, he now gets to get the rub because he's
working with the greatest performer of our lifetime, Roman Reigns.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
If WWE was smart, they come up with a way
for Bronson Reed to win. Here that being said, no
matter who interferes in this match, I fully expect Roman
Rains to come out on top.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Yes, I agree with you totally. And that's why I
don't really give this much thought because it just feels
like another squatch mashed. And I'll mean in a good way,
in a bad way. I tweeted out on Monday, the
Bronson Reid Roman Reigns brawl gave me real bronze Stroman
Roman Reigns vibes.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
What did you mean by that?

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
No, Look, Romans having a monster come out to him.
Oh look they're getting pulled apart. Oh look they came
back together. Oh look, we've never seen Roman do this before,
except him and braunz Stroman did it for years. So
it's just one of those things where we feel like
WWE goes to a well and they keep pulling the
water from that same well. Like how we said this

(01:01:23):
guy is a poor man's version of this woman is
a poor man's version of this. It feels like this
rivalry is a poor man's version of what at one
point was Roman versus a Monster that was the biggest
focal point of WWE. That's what this is. That's what
this felt like to me. It has a lot of
characteristics of that rivalry that we've already seen. It did

(01:01:47):
nothing for braunz Stroman, and roman reigns is already established,
So this just kind of felt like, Hey, Roman's back,
and we're doing something with him because he's back right now,
But it doesn't feel like there are a ton thing
to really creatively expand on what they've done with Roman before.
This just feels like a speed bump of something they've
already done to get to Roman versus seth Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
You also get and we just didn't go in any
sort of order here. I'm not sure one hundred percent
of what the actual match order is gonna be, although
I assume the title match is going to be the
main event, but who knows? Might be this one, uh,
the one we haven't talked about yet. John Cena versus
Logan Paul. Sina only got a handful of matches left.

(01:02:34):
I don't know that I see him losing to Logan
Paul here. Should they meet up again before Seena hangs
it up? Maybe, But it feels like Sina last time
in Paris, he's gonna get that. You're gonna make up
for some of the fuck ups you did earlier by
turning him here and then going overseas for his last
appearances in a lot of places where people wanted to

(01:02:55):
cheer him but couldn't. I feel like Senah's gonna get
the win here.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
I've seen has had more appearances overseas on this last tour,
you have to correct me if I'm wrong, than he
ever did during his other twenty years with w WE.
Or maybe it's just because we actually televise these tours more.
John Cena and Logan Paul are really good friends. They've
done podcasts together, they've tagged together. One's a heel, one's

(01:03:24):
a face. They're gonna go out there and perform, and
I'm sure it's gonna be good because Logan Paul is
there is solid. John Cena's John Cena. He's gonna get
the victory. I just can't get out of my mind
the sight of that really odd setup to the AA
that happened on Monday, where I thought that was kind

(01:03:45):
of beneath both of their athleticism, that it looked clunky,
and I'm so sorry it looked like Jade trying to
pull off a move rather than Logan Paul and John Cena.
It was below my expectations. I'm sure the match is
gonna be fine. I just can't find a way to
get invested in this sudden story where I'm kind of

(01:04:07):
a little bit more on Logan Paul's side. Dude, we
hung out together, we did a podcast, we were friends.
Fuck all these people. You were right there with me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
And then you changed.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
You changed, bro I as John Cena, expect more from you, Logan,
and you could offer so much more to these people.
I just see John Cena projecting himself onto Logan Paul
in his own values rather than actually knowing the guy
that you're friends with.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
Logan Paul couldn't even attack John Cena in the back.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Correctly where they had to do the It also doesn't
doesn't help the the my involvement in the story or
caring more about it. Also, though I did get a
kick out of Logan Paul calling Drew McIntyre sir, because
that was totally out of character.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
I'd probably call Drew McIntyre sir too.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Yeah, you would, but this is a pompous asshole. Well
that's not us.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Well that's that's a fair point, I suppose.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
Yeah, that was totally out of character for me. Whereas yes,
sir jffing talking to nobody like that, and that's basically
the same archetype that you are, just with hang Man's
move set.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
Yeah, so unless they add something, that's your card for
Clash in Paris.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
Hey, you get half of the star power more, you
get see them Punk, you get Cody, you get John Cena,
you get Roman Reigns. I mean, you get Roman, you
get Sena, you get Seth you have to see him
Punk you're only missing really, Cody, you get most of
the Star Power.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
This was on Sunday, by the way, not on Saturday.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
Sunday Sunday during the day, right midday.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Ah sure.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
I think it's like a two pm Eastern start time
something like that, more in the middle of the day,
giving it a primetime feel for that French audience.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
I guess a couple other things real quick. While we're
talking about John Cena, only a handful of matches left,
and we know his last match will be December thirteenth.
It will be Saturday Night's main event, which will be
exclusively on Peacock. One more ride for John Cena. Were

(01:06:11):
you a betting man, who do you think his final
opponent's going to be?

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
See him Punk? We already did the Randy Writon thing.
We're about to do the Rock Lesner thing. I don't
know if dew he comes back to do his thing, I.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
Would bet you anything. It's Logan Paul and John Cena
does the favor you see him. Punk doesn't need the rub,
rock Lester doesn't need the rub. Seth Rollins doesn't need
the rub. Gunther might need the rub, but I don't

(01:06:54):
know that you give a fuck about gun Through at
this point. I mean, I guess you can talk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
Yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
I think I think you're I think Sena loses his
last match.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
That's more than Paul. It's more than possible it's Logan Paul.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
If that's the case, I think it's Paul.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
Logan Paul, I would say, doesn't need it. From this standpoint,
he's the third biggest star in WWE. There's Roman Reigns,
there's Johnson that there's Logan Paul. If you look at
social media traction numbers, if you look at the viability
of his podcast, if you look at the reach of
his outside endorsements, I think that Jake, that Logan Paul
is probably the third biggest entity on a WWE roster,

(01:07:37):
if not four. Sorry if I disrespect brock Lesner. You
want to bring him into that equation, maybe top five
with Cmpung, But Logan Paul from a WWE perspective, I
agree with you. There's a lot to gain from a
John Cena win, from an overall global popularity, though I
don't know how much bigger he could become.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
But Logan Paul isn't the third biggest WWE star, and
that's what you're trying to build now. I think you're right,
social media all that bigger outside ww celebrity. I agree
with one hundred percent of that. He's not the third
biggest WW East star. I think Sena does right the

(01:08:17):
time honor tradition, losing on the way out, putting somebody over.
There's no need to do that with Cody, with Seth,
with Brock, with Punk, with Roman, So Logan probably is
the only one that makes sense. Like I don't know

(01:08:38):
why and not that Solo would still have the belt then,
but I don't know why John Cena's last match would
be for I guess the US Champion or the IC
Champion and a Dominic Mysterio, although if done right, Dominic Mysterio,
Raymus and John Cena might be kind of interesting. But
Dominic can go out and beat his own damn legend

(01:08:59):
whenever they decide to do that in Rayma Stereo in
hell he has. I don't know, We'll see how it
plays out, but if I were a betting man, I
would put my money on Logan Paul being the final
opponent for John Cena at Saturday Night's main event on
December thirteenth.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Closing out on a couple WWE things. A manager is
supposed to be an enhancement to a character, right Usually,
WWE has done a really good job of not making
me care about the Women's US title or Julia. I
don't give a flying fucking shit about them. And the

(01:09:44):
hardest thing about this me am chasing a US title
match is that when anyone wanted to face Chelsea, they
just walked up to Nick all this and we've just
eliminated that element with this manager that constantly gets in
the way, And I feel like has done nothing but
taken away from a performer that was looking fierce and

(01:10:07):
gaining hatred just by beating up everybody that the kids liked.
So I feel like that's been a shitty waste of time.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
Probably I'm trying to figure out a respectful way to
respond to that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
To me or am I wrong?

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
Or oh no, no, no, no no, I'm not saying
you're wrong, but why I don't care?

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
Oh hey, did you ever think you'd see the day
that Charlotte Flair loses to Piper Niffn Talk about shit,
I can't actually get through Charlotte Flair is now just
a regular tag team wrestler. That's interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
Okay, do you think this is them blaming her for
the whole build up to the Tiffany Stratton match at
Mania going sideway.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
Quite possibly that you're now relegated to being like gold
Dust and Booker T. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
Yeah, maybecause Tiffany Stratton is still your w W Women's
Champion and Charlotte Flair is teaming with someone storyline wise
she doesn't even really like in the tag team division
and alluding.

Speaker 2 (01:11:17):
To lesser people because her tag team partner bailed on her.
I don't know how to, uh, how to rectify any
of that. It's it's a little mind boggling.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
Oh, it's a little mind boggling. Yeah, I don't worst
holders of tag team championships in WWE Finn balor JD McDonough,
the Wyatt six or Charlotte Flair Alecta Bliss.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
It's hard to have a three way tile, but somehow
the photo finish still says it's a three way tie.
It's all horrible WWE coming up short on so many
ways for me in the tag team division and and
even with a lot of the women's storylines as they're
trying to perpetuate, I just don't feel they're hitting and

(01:12:06):
the j Tiffy Force thing. I'd rather see them as
a tag team and on the other side the Charlotte
Alexa thing. Plus, it feels like real Ripley Edosky are
one step above Bailey right now, and even I've seen
publications running with it that are usually pretty kind to

(01:12:29):
WWE that Bailey. What did Bailey do to piss everybody off?
Because she's becoming Natalia and Natalia gets these random bella
uses where she's more active for NWA and GCW, but
as the WWE performer, help me understand what's going on
in the women's division.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
I I don't think she's done anything to hate to
upset anyone, But if she has, maybe it's publicizing the
fact that she's backstage taking pictures at AW events for
Mercedes Monet, or she's in the crowd. Why now she
also hasn't been the only ww talent to go watch

(01:13:13):
Mercedes in AW But but that will be the only
thing that I could think of that maybe she's done wrong.
If she's I think it's just more of the nature
of the business.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
And we have this really odd area itedo or enemies
their frenemies that's obviously gonna lose lead to the Koubuki
Warriors versus Edo and Rhea, and there's a lot of drama,
but I don't feel like it's pulling me in to
care about it because Itto keeps telling her friends don't

(01:13:53):
help me. But when Ria comes out to help, she says,
thank you for helping me, because no one helped me. Well,
because your friends respecting you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
Also, with Bailey, they might already know that win. Her
contract's up somewhere near the end of next year. She
doesn't plan on resigning, so maybe that's part of it
as well. Also, this is a problem on both sides,
but I'm gonna highlight it since this is what we're
talking about a little more on the women's side. Outside

(01:14:22):
of your top storyline or your top two storylines, WWE
doesn't always do a good job with your mid card
booking and storylines and lower mid card storylines and bookings,
so that's probably part of it as well. I also,
just in general, don't think they do nearly as good
a job on the women's side of things as they

(01:14:43):
do on the men's side, so that plays into it
as well. But whereas and look to be fair, I
think AW does a much better job with the mid
card storylines, maybe to the point of where they should
focus a little more on the main event stuff. So
you can go too far both ways, But yeah, I
think WWE actually does not do a very good job

(01:15:06):
with your mid card storytelling.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
Is there truth too that WWE is too focused on
the future in the eschelon? That Bailey is a superstar,
Becky is a superstar, Riea is a superstar, and they
just don't want to stop making superstars, and it feels
like you become an afterthought. Charlotte's a superstar. There's many
a superstars live Alexa that they almost get concerned with

(01:15:29):
making the next one because it feels like all those
names that we just mentioned that are established superstars. Our
secondary thoughts to how can we get over Lyra Valkyria,
how can we get over Jade? How can we get
over Tiffy, rather than saying, well, we already have our
established bunch, let's let this group mature. Because there was

(01:15:50):
one thing that I really took away from the Jade
match on SmackDown, Corey Graves was like, look at how
much Jade has improved, how much she's improved, and I
feel like they should ride with what's already established. There's
too much of a trying to put over the next
big thing.

Speaker 1 (01:16:07):
Well, I think you're always trying to put over the
next big thing. The problem to me is that if
you're not in the main event picture, you win one week,
you lose, the next week, you win, one week, you
lose the next week, then you lose again, then you win,
so you never gain any traction and at some point
in time fans just stop caring. Now, that's not the

(01:16:32):
case with every one of those people you just mentioned.
I think in the case of Jade, fans might be
realizing she's just not that good of a worker, so
WW should figure out a better way to use her
to situate her strengths.

Speaker 2 (01:16:46):
Do you think there's a resilience also from WWE to
utilize AW booking like we know better than you, Because
I'm sorry, the j thing has not worked. At some
point I might have just been like, shit, what were
they doing? All right, you're gonna start being a heel,
You're gonna be an asshole, and you're gonna start squashing
bitches because that's what got you over in AW.

Speaker 1 (01:17:08):
I'm gonna say no, because excuse me, I mean Ethan
page is basically the same guy he was in AW.
He did well. Now he gets a lot more TV times,
you get to see it more.

Speaker 2 (01:17:22):
Starks is the same guy.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
Yeah, different name, same guy. I generally speaking, I think
there is something to that that. Yeah, I don't think
that's the case here, and it certainly shouldn't be because look,
say what you want. AW did a really good job
of making Jade look like a monster. She looks really

(01:17:48):
ordinary here, so does the former Mariah May in X.
I don't think she seemed a lot more special in
AAW than she does in NXT. Now, if you want
to tell me what big fish small pond now small fish,
big pond, I don't know that I totally buy that.
But I listened to you, well it's WWE. Yes, it

(01:18:10):
is specifically an XT, but it's but yeah, I don't
think they've done it, and look, you can always change that.
But I don't think they've done a good job with
her either.

Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
No, I would agree. That's where I'm like, I don't
think they highlighted her strengths. There, there's been some faults.
I feel like you could even extend that to Jordan Grace,
who I was like, she had some fucking moments when
she used to show up on the main roster for
her one off from TNA, and I kind of felt
like she's also just kind of fallen into the mix
in NXT.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
Yeah, I think that's different and maybe and here's why,
maybe I'm wrong here, but I think she's still a
TNA contracted talent. So maybe you're not willing to go
all the way and maybe she's not. Maybe I'm wrong
on that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
I thought she signed.

Speaker 1 (01:18:55):
I thought I might be wrong. I don't think so,
but you could be right on that. But yeah, I just.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
Wwe. I mean, they're the big dog right now, but
I don't know if I see the eye with all
that trash talking and still really the announcement we did lose.
Maybe you're right, we do get a six match because
we did lose Stephanie Vancore versus Naomi, and I felt

(01:19:25):
that whole situation to be lackluster, that we didn't have
some kind of triple threat match already set up with
Ito with Rhea Ripley, with something, so that you had
an opponent for Stephanie Vancore because it had already been
advertised Big Jimmy, Little Jimmy, No Jimmy, just screw that
all up.

Speaker 1 (01:19:46):
Jordan Grace, by the way, is signed to a WW country.

Speaker 2 (01:19:49):
Okay, I thought she had crossed that line.

Speaker 1 (01:19:56):
Do we want to talk about line crossing or just
call it a day.

Speaker 2 (01:20:01):
I don't know if we can pile on anymore than
anyone else has said. Pro wrestling is a delicate art form.
You have to be very cautious. Do you know what's
not a delicate art form? Smashing a beer counts.

Speaker 1 (01:20:14):
Someone's beating the ever loving fuck out of somebody in
the ring because you felt disrespected.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
The poisons of social media, quite a few things you
cannot take into just waste the account of what cooperation
goes into putting on these performances.

Speaker 4 (01:20:35):
I guess, I guess, uh, that's probably good at it,
and you probably lose your WWE I D when you
still continue they work after things got serious and real.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
I could only hope to think if I was ever
in that scenario, We're all just hitting the ring, pulling
the apprehend the guilty party out of it, and medics
are getting in there as quick as possible, and you're
just calling off the show at that point, not continuing it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:05):
You mean you don't pin the guy after he's had
the fuck beat out of him and is unconscious and
his teeth are laying there on the mat.

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
And possibly choking on blood. Yeah, yeah, all of that. No,
you're rustling to get the authorities in there that the
proper help, and you're trying to clear out the room,
bring down the ring ropes, make this as safe as
exit for the falling party as possible. There was so
much of that that it felt like it was mishandled.

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
That probably more than anything, is why they lost their
wwe ID accreditation.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
You couldn't helped the incident. It's everything you.

Speaker 1 (01:21:43):
Could help the incident, I atrate it. You could have
not taken something that happened in the back and tried
to turn it into a story. But more so if
with that accreditation you're telling young up and coming wrestlers
this is a good place to go train, this is
a place you can get seen, learn your craft. They
just let that man get the ever loving shit beat

(01:22:03):
out of him, and then while he's there choking, you
went ahead and pinned him.

Speaker 2 (01:22:09):
The story like exactly right.

Speaker 1 (01:22:13):
Had you had to pull your wwe ID accreditation after now,
maybe at some point in time you rectify all that
and it comes back. But if for no other reason
than that you had to pull it, Otherwise that whole
program is a joke and you can't listen to if

(01:22:35):
you're out there trying to find a place to hone
your skills and a place to work and learn the craft.
If you can't trust what the fuck the ww EAST
telling you, then who can you trust that they were
in a situation that they had to pull that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
And Yeah, I'd say, just not necessary to take a
social media incident and then try to transform it into
a work, especially with someone that's that's not worker.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
True.

Speaker 2 (01:23:02):
True, There was so many faults in my opinion on
the professional side of how that should be carried out
with pro wrestling. Uh, hopefully we got a better week
of pro wrestling ahead of us. Shout out to GCW two.
They had a back to back weekend with some good wrestling.
Their fans seemed to be into it and really appreciating

(01:23:24):
what they're doing. There's anything else on pro wrestling that
you're loving, Hit me up on X tell me about it.
It's at Frank Olmiicah last name on the.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
First Get the show on X at PW After Hours
get me at Real, Mike Carlisle. We will talk to
you next week for another episode of Pro Wrestling After
Hours here on the After Hours Podcast Network.

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