The Truth About Stuck Men: Sex, Shame, and Silent Struggles Feat. Dr. Matt Zakreski

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
This is the sign you've been looking for. No, your
feelings are not valid because you're a lunatic. In that
scenario you harping on you made up, but you know what,
I'm not making up. It's time for another episode of
PSA to Mental Health Podcast Track four featuring my guy Matt,
doctor Matt z. So this episode, So, last week we

(00:26):
talked about building right and building the wrong things. How
to build the right things? This one, this is for
the people who feel like they had a crossroads in life.
They keep trying to do something, but they feel like
they're Ben Plat told. So last week we talked about
building the wrong thing. This week we're talking about you
might be in the right space and doing the right thing,
but you didn't kind of plat toad and now you're
like you don't know what to do. It's actually not
the bad thing. This is actually the episode that helps

(00:47):
with that. We talk about being neuro divergent. That may
be some of us, some of us may have been
not diagnosed, some of us may have been diagnosed, and
to stop doing the stuff that we needed to do.
Like I said, I'm not diagnosing nobody. This is not
a man that seals but this is for the people
who want to go to that next level and want
to get break that plateau. So if you are at
a plateau and you feel like you've done everything that

(01:09):
you can, this helps you to laser focus on how
to get to the next step. For example, if you
been going to the gym eating right, but you ain't
losing no weight, you just may need to take more
rest days, or you may need to get more sleep.
So if you plateau, it's probably something minor you're not doing,
and this is the episode perfect for that. So also
overcoming self doubt and negative self talk. So sit back, relax.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
You know this quote is often attributed to Michael Jordan,
but it's like, if you always do what you've always done,
you'll always get what you've always gotten. Right, killing yourself
to work three jobs and hoping to scratch enough money
to make rent is a way to solve that problem.
But it's a way that comes with a lot of
pain and struggle. Right, maybe if you tried something new,

(02:24):
you might unlock some strategy that you've never considered before
that makes your life a little bit better.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
I agree, and you know what, it goes to the
next point. But before I get into that that I
really want to really piggyback off the whole pride thing.
And like I said earlier, and now you're kind of reiterating,
I think a lot of times men suffer with that,
like like you said, well, I'm the man, I'm supposed
to be doing this, and it's like sometimes I believe

(02:51):
you'll be putting a situation to strip you of certain things.
So in that moment, you still recount that and that was.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
How many years that was twenty and twelve?

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Okay, so that was, well what about thirteen years ago?
And even that defining moment changed your whole view on
like you know, yeah, I'm a man. At the same time,
we are still in a relationship, and I was gonna
let my pride cause an unnecessary problem at the beginning
of something that it didn't have to be mental health
or wellness person. And you you know, your LinkedIn content

(03:28):
ain't looking too good, and you worried about if I'm
gonna get the clients I'm looking for, or you know,
you need some white papers done or some articles done
that you haven't had done. It's some pr articles and
you know you may just need something to tighten up
on to somebody to do that for you. You know
it's lacking because you don't have it. A news let
us to push out to your clients, and you just
don't have it, and you know you're not gonna get

(03:49):
the results you want it because you don't have it done.
Of course that's gonna happen, but it can be changed
if you reach out to me Isy Baker for your
mental health and willness content, if you need anything done
as far as white papers, articles, if you're in the
podcast and YouTube description, anything social media written for you. Your
LinkedIn is really important. If you need that, I know
I got the recipe for it. If you need anything

(04:11):
like that done, reach out to me and we could
get something going with that. I'm back and except PSA.
I'm just flick to take off my TSA. Good morning,
good evening. I am my neighbor, and welcome back to

(04:32):
another hot fire episode of PSA to Mental Health Podcast,
Season nine. Can you believe Season nine? I've been doing
this for nine seasons? That is crazy. Now, obviously we've
been in season nine, but it's just when I think
about it, like it's really crazy, Like I've been giving
y'all heal for nine seasons and now, yeah, that's crazy,

(04:53):
and it was something else I was about to say,
but I forgot just that fast. But it's gonna jump
back up to me because I'm giving y'all hell in
this episode too. As always. Now, I have a great
guest today, but before I get into that, I have
to get into a few things. So let's first of
all get into this week's meme. All right. Now, I'm
going to explain it in a Happy Hour segment because

(05:14):
my memes were somewhat like this, but I said, this season,
I'm and beyond because we're not stopping here, but this
season and beyond, I want to make sure they're all
like this. I wanted to really feel like the Justin
Leaboy of mental health podcasts, all right when it comes
to memes. All right, so let's get into this week's meme.
The meme reads, if you are in the gym every

(05:35):
week and the skill has not moved, you are the problem.
It's time to shift. Just wait. Inspiration comes from stand
by Donnie mcclerk. I don't know why this song really
stood out to me when I was just getting this
information together and getting my script together, Like after you've
done all you can that kind of thing. Proverbs sixteen

(05:57):
and three talking about, you know, committee of plans to
the layland establish them. And then another quote that I
have that it says, feeling stuck doesn't mean you fail.
It means you're at a cross roads. Key isn't to
push harder, it is to step back, reflect, find a
new path forward. And that is actually a quote from
my guest today. So we already starting up with some
good stuff. All right, y'all, Now I'm gonna explain it here,

(06:18):
but let's go ahead and jump into the next segment,
which is happy hour. Now in this happy i'man to
talk about a few things. The first question I have
to ask, where are you at with those New Year's goals?
Jesus mean, it's been a little while now, you know
every year is new year, New me. Where are we

(06:39):
at with them? You just you start off strong and
fall off? Are you still going through? You know what
I mean? Only you can answer that. I don't know.
As far as me, I'm still going pretty strong. What
we all fail to realize is, or what people fail
to realize, is the new year actually starts. You know, well,
it's two different new years. Technically, but the new year

(07:00):
of the you know, the normal one at the end
of December whatever, you should be preparing for that before December.
That's what people really don't get. Like I say, at
the latest you should be playing at the latest October.
That's the latest, but really it should be before them.
But either way, I minded going pretty strong. Hopefully yours

(07:23):
are too, and if they're not, you know, you don't
have to assist effort and just wait till next new year.
And I'm not saying do that either, because that's a
waste of time, but it's just something to readjust now,
going back to the mean, because someone would probably be
offended by their mean. That was the goal. But believe
it or not, that mean was actually me so last

(07:45):
what twenty twenty four in the gym, going crazy, you know,
back trying to get my weight loss to stuff together,
and every week for I know, three months, I saw
the same exact weight every day, every Saturday. On that scale.
It was maybe it really wouldn't go up, but it
wouldn't go down. And you might say, well, that's a

(08:07):
good thing. No, it wasn't a good thing because I
was trying to lose weight something like every week it
was the same thing. So finally I got the revelation,
you know, sit back after I you know, pivot, made
a pivot, readjusted and realized my body was overworked and
wasn't able to do what it needed to do because
I wasn't getting I stopped doing rest days trying to

(08:29):
overwork myself. Now, different people's bodies that do different things,
and some people can get away with certain things. And
as of just from experience and playing with my body
out these years now like that, but I've learned that
I'm a person that has to have rest days. Some
people don't, some people don't, but what most of us do,
and I've seen the outcome of I even back in

(08:51):
the day, would notice things and I would say, like,
you know, I've seen better results when I get really
two rest days. I try to at least get for
sure one. But when I've had two rest days, it
seems like I seen much more of a you know,
transformation in my body. So that's something I want to
throw out that to him, Like I said, that post
was hopefully it hit somebody, because like I said, that

(09:11):
was me. So at this point you're laughing at me.
But like I said, if those New year's goals have
fell off, it's time to get back to it. Like
I said, let this be the message. Don't think that
the year is over because, like I said, we still
got plenty more of the year left. And you know,
some people's life shift in January. Some didn't shift till May,

(09:31):
so I might not shift to February, some might shift
in de simple I don't know. But you have to
be in position at all times Jesus. All right, y'all,
So enough of my rant to that. Have a great
guest today. I'm really excited about it, you know, as me.
And sometimes we can be a little headstrong, I believe,

(09:52):
and we can be a little in some cases prideful
and we think we got it. We got it noother
and O. But sometimes you really have to sit back
and readjust and ask yourself if you are not saying
a change in what you're doing. Most times, you know
there's something that you have to fix. So I have
an expert with that, and we'll be talking about a
lot of different things along with that. So let me

(10:13):
go ahead and introduce them, and let's get started with
the interview doctor Matt. What is going on?

Speaker 2 (10:18):
I was just sitting here listening to you, Like I
feel like I'm listening to your podcast, except I'm on
your podcast, but still listening to you. It was like
a very cool moment. I was, yeah, like i almost
lost the plot in the waiting room. I'm like, oh,
what's next?

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Right, I'm like you the plot? So you're next? That
was a plot to us? Why right? Oh?

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Thanks so much for having me. Man, this is this
is awesome. I've been a fan of your show for
a really long time.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Really, Okay, okay, great, great, great. So obviously I've kind
of soft did a soft introduction. But for my audio people,
can you tell the people what's your name, where you're from,
and then where do you live now?

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, so my name is doctor Matt Sukreski. Everybody calls
me doctor Matt. I'm a clinical psychologist and professional speaker
who specializes in neurodivergent people, so people with different brains, autism, adhd, OCD, dyslexia, giftedness,
that sort of thing. I'm born and raised in New Jersey,

(11:23):
but I have lived all over. I went to college
in North Carolina, I lived in Boston, lived in Australia,
lived in Philly. Now we're back in Jersey. You know,
the circle of life is complete, and you know, I
travel all over the country and sometimes the world, helping
people with their mental health and getting the word out there.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
Okay, good stuff. Now this wasn't plan, but I'm going
to ask, so you lived in Australia. How long did
you live in Australia?

Speaker 2 (11:50):
From June from July to December two thousand and four,
so a little over twenty years ago.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
Okay, how was it? Because you know, so many people
I see that, like they always post the negative size
of it, like you know, with the animals and things,
and somebody had a koala in their house and all
these different animals that you won't rarely see. So like,
how was it living there? Because I actually one of
the ones that wants to visit Australia.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
You should go right now, I mean, like you know,
I mean, I guess, maybe finish the podcast, but then go.
I mean, it's the people are amazing, They're so chill,
they're so funny. The the beaches are world class. I
mean I lived in a small apartment and I had

(12:38):
to walk past one of the best beaches in Australia.
It's called Cujie Beach and I had to walk by
the beach to get to the bus that took me
to university. And I'm telling you, man a lot of mornings,
I was just like, that's a hard pass. I can
learn sociology anywhere where else in my life. Am I
going to get this kind of beach? So the beer

(12:58):
is good, the food is good, the people are chill.
The you mean, you can head out to the middle
of the country and go to Ularu, which is just
the most like spiritual gut punch you'll ever have. It's
just a rock, but it's also like so much more
than a rock somehow. If you go, you'll understand talk

(13:19):
about Australia all day. I mean, it's just if it
wasn't ten thousand miles away from everybody I love, I
would live there.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, no, I get I get it. I definitely That's
on my bucal list of places to go. So you
briefly discussed what it is that you do. Now, to
really break it down even further, what would you say
if someone was to ask what did you do for
a living? How would you explain it in like maybe
a sentence?

Speaker 2 (13:47):
So everything I'm about is helping people with different brains
navigate a world that wasn't built for them. That's what
I do. That's what it's all about.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Okay, and a lot of people. We live in a
world where so many people were you know back in
the day. We live in the world now where we
celebrate those things. Where now it was like it was like,
you know, if somebody was gifted, or somebody was you know,
ad HD and all those different things they were kind
of hiding. Now it's almost like a superpower where people

(14:18):
it's like I almost want to have those want to
have those you know things. And I remember recently Amanda
Seals called Flack on Clubs and Sharp's podcast because she
said that she was diagnosed with I forgot what she
said she was diagnosed with, But then it came out
that she wasn't technically diagnosed. She just she went based

(14:42):
on all of the symptoms and signs. And so even
with that, that goes to show you that people really
want to I think it helps people help them to
understand themselves if they say, maybe I do have this.
And I had even learned a few years back, like
I wasn't too old to not go and get diagnosed
for whatever reason. Because what most people don't know this

(15:02):
is a shocker. Well, this is a breaking news story.
I actually would test it for the gifted test. But
I believe I think I failed it on purpose because
I don't know why. I just didn't want to do it.
But I think I failed it on purpose. And then oh,
well maybe we missed it. But in reality, I didn't
miss it. I just failed it on purpose. I don't
know why, y'all. I can't give you an answer for that.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
So yeah, but I see that all the time for
what it's worth, right, Like I just especially with black
and brown boys, like you know, it's like some I mean,
and it's always somebody like me who looks like me
as a white guy comes to me and be like, hey,
is he We're going to have your answer these questions

(15:43):
and you're like, fuck that, I'm not doing that? Is
this guy?

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Right?

Speaker 2 (15:47):
And but the cool thing about that is that if
you were, if you were noted as somebody who could
take that test, even if you've never had that IQ test,
you their brain hasn't gone anywhere, right, So you just
like you know, being assessed with ADHD as an adult,
you could be assessed for giftedness as an adult because

(16:09):
it's it's a neurotype, right, It's just it's a kind
of different brain that you bring with you wherever you go.
We just tend to think about it only from like
K through twelve education, like, oh, you take the gifted
classes in middle school, But it's like being gifted impacts
the relationships you have, the podcast you do, you know,
the kind of food you like, the kind of clothes

(16:29):
you like. I mean, it really is a whole way
to see in the world. So you might be in
the club anyway, man.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yeah, I said, and I appreciate that. But it kind
of caught back up with me because in high school
I was put into the ap english and history classes
and all at first I was like, I don't know
if I should do that. Then my dad was kind
of like, well, it's interesting, you can do it. Then
more than likely they see something you don't see, so
I just want to did it. Obviously it worked out,

(16:56):
so you know, here we are, went and got a
degree in English and have a whole right ghost riding service.
So looking back, okay, now there's a lot of people
you work with who felt stuck, and that's just just
what it is. So what are some common reasons men
in particular feel like they've hit a wall in life?

(17:17):
Oh man?

Speaker 2 (17:18):
So, so there's a so A big part of my
job as a psychologist is really getting people to move.
It's about behavior change, right, And some people don't even
know they need to change. Some people know they need
to change, and they don't know how. Some people think
they know how to change, but it's not working. Most

(17:40):
of those last two are the most of the people
who come to therapy. They're like, listen, man, I want
to lose weight. I can't. Like I've tried weight watchers,
I've tried going on the gym, I can't do it.
And then some people are like, I want a new job,
but how the hell does someone get a new job
in this economy? Like what like what does that even mean?

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Right?

Speaker 2 (17:59):
So, any good behavior change starts with a like an
honest assessment of yourself, your strengths, your weakness. Is what
you've done before, what's worked, what's not worked, what you're
willing to do, and what what I like the hard
nose for you? Right, Like you know, like, if I
want to do this weight be like, oh man, you
know you should do one of those like, uh, tough mutter.

(18:21):
I was like that, No, that's a hard pass for me, dude.
Like I'll ride the bike, I'll climb a wall, but like,
just like this something like I don't do mud. It's
like mud is like a texture thing for me. So
I wouldn't tough mutter right now, if you want to
do I'd be like, great, let's sign Ezio for the
tough mutter and I will do the triathlon that involves
no mud at all. We're both losing weight, we're both
getting fit. It is, we're playing to our strengths right right.

(18:44):
So a lot of times, with men in particular, you
feel like you've got to fit in a particular box
to be successful and do a thing like corporate success
looks like this, you know. Relationship success looks like this.
Kids success looks like this. Car success looks like this.
Lawn success. If you're one of those guys who's into
your line, I am not, but my dad is right, like,

(19:07):
then you're judging your own success, your own journey, on
other people's performance. But that means you're hooking your happiness
to what other people do, right, So, the more we
can realize that we are only in competition with ourselves.
The happier and more successful and more unstuck we're gonna get.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, And like I said, all of last season we
talked about you know, every episode some way, shape or form,
and the topic of people pleasing came up. So clearly
somebody who will binge watch or already binge watch and
listen or listen to that season with just like you
know what, I'm a people please And this needs to
stop today because that's what's keeping a lot on That is,

(19:51):
keeps a lot of people stuck because you're too worried
about what they'll do, think, feel, and you can be
your true authentic self if that is a case, So
good good, All right, Now, before we get too deep,
I have a few words to ask, and I want
you to send me the first thing that comes to mind.
And there's no right or wrong against love it, okay, stuck, pain, plateau.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
Frustration, shift, challenge.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Faith, hope. So the definition that I got for stuck
is unable to move or set in a particular position, place,
or way of thinking. A lot of us can be plateau.
It says reach a state of little or no change
after a time of activity or progress, shift it says
move or cost to move from one place to another,
especially over a small distance. And then faith it says

(20:46):
strong belief in God or the doctors of a religion
based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof. All right, so
keep those in mind because those are going to come
up as the episode goes along. And yeah, all right,
now let's go into the next segment for today, which
is is what does this have to do with mental health?
And as always, we kind of break down how the

(21:06):
topic deals with mental health. But before we get to that,
I have another question. So your work focus is heavily
on neuro divergence and obviously mental health. So what inspired
you to sense a career around these areas?

Speaker 2 (21:21):
So I think, like a lot of people in the
mental health world would say, a lot of research is mesearch. Right.
So I grew up as a gifted kid, and I
really had the whole gifted experience, right, Like they thought
I was going to Harvard, they thought I was some
sort of prodigy. And then like then all the social
and emotional stuff that comes up with being gifted kicked

(21:43):
my ass in middle school and like, wait, how come
no one told me about those were parts of it,
and then I was so smart that no one knows
I had ADHD until high school. And then it was like, oh,
that explains a lot. So, like I remember saying to
my parents, I was like, if I ever get to
work with kids, I want to work with kids. Like
I didn't think that journey would take me to like
having a fancy doctorate, but like here I am right,

(22:05):
and it allows me to help more people, so like,
let's do it. But I grew up as a remarkably
privileged person, right, like from a you know, affluent small
town in Jersey with good public schools. Both of my
parents are psychologists as well, So like I had basically
every advantage, and I still got my ass kicked. So

(22:27):
it's like if I had all those advantages right of
race and socioeconomic status and privilege in like location in
the country, and I still struggled. What's it like from
somebody from a poor part of the country or somebody
who doesn't say skin color or gender identity that I
do Like damn, Like we got like let me, let

(22:47):
me use my privilege to build a bigger table, not
a higher fence, right, Okay, you know, so that's you know,
that's a big part of what I do because, like
to who much is given much as exp Right, I'm
not going to take that. I'm not some dragon, right,
I'm not trying to hold off the gold for me. Man, Like,
let's share. Let's share that out because the world is

(23:09):
a better and richer place when more people are seated
at the right tables.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Oh. I think that might be the thing for this season,
about finding your place at that table, whatever table that
that is career wise, you know, spiritually, you know, emotionally,
you know, it's just it's time. I think, like I
said last it's crazy because everything is kind of like alignment.
But like last season, even though it wasn't every episode,

(23:34):
well most like somewhere people came up in some way.
I feel like this one is going to be about
making sure you're at the right table, because sometimes you
can be at a great table, but it's one that
you shouldn't be at, whether it's that season of your
life expired or you're you're you've compromised and you're at
a table doing things that you probably don't want to

(23:54):
do and you're like, well I need this, and it's like, no,
that's not right. But this goes into the first point
for today, which comes, well, it's just the first one
as far as how does is align with mental health,
which is emotional toll of stagnation. According to the psychological
effects of feelings stuck in life by Psychology Today, stagnation
can lead to heightened feelings of frustration, anxiety, and depression.
This emotional toll arises because people often equit being stuck

(24:17):
with failure with it, which exasperate self doubt and decreases
overall mental well being. Breaking through from this cycle requires
reframe and challenges its opportunities for growth, and using mindfulness
to identify actionable next steps. So I like that part
about the actionable next steps because people will get stuck
and sometimes they'll go into a depression from being stuck.

(24:39):
And now you're stuck and you're upset about it too.
So it's like, you know, because sometimes you can be
stuck and realize you think you're like I'm stuck, but
you don't think nothing another of being stuck and depressed.
It's just like it's a lot.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah. Now, I mean, like I had a moment in
my life right like, so I just started dating my
wife and you know, we were talking about moving in
together and we were in grad school, so we're making
like six nickels a year. Like it was. It was tough,
and you know, I had expected my paycheck for my

(25:14):
work study job to come through and it didn't. For
some reason, I realized I didn't have enough money to
pay rent. Right, like I like and like you know,
like traditional gender norms, like I'm the guy, man, it's
my like, this is my like my name was on
the lease, so it's like my apartment, Like I got
to pay for this. And my wife was like, let
me write you a check. She's like, I my name

(25:35):
is not on leasia, but I basically live here. And
I was like, no, I am a man, right. I
was like, I'm gonna go one of those check cashing
places and she's like for thirty percent interest. Come on.
She's like, she's like, I'm going to write you a check.
You are going to deposit it in the bank, and
then you'll write your landlord to check. And it will

(25:55):
be fine because we're going to be together for a
long time and this will be one of the times
I help you out and you will help me out
in a million times. And that's just what a relationship is,
and like I remember, like I remember like realizing deep
in my gut that I didn't have a good reason
to say no to her other than the fact that

(26:15):
it just like, but that's not what you do. And
I realized in that moment that like, if my best
explanation for that is that's just not what you do,
then that's not a good enough explanation, right, and like
swallowing my pride and allowing a different kind of move
to get me unstuck, Like, oh my gosh, Like if

(26:36):
I had only used the tools and strategies I had
used to that point, I probably would have been like
evicted or like, you know, I'd be on the streets
of Philly, right instead of like, I took some help
when I needed it, I paid her back, I got
to keep living in that cool apartment, and it became
just a footnote in the giant chapter book that is
my life. Right. So part of that getting unstuck is thinking,

(27:02):
you know, you know that this quote is often attributed
to Michael Jordan, but it's like if you always do
what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten, right,
Killing yourself to work three jobs and hoping to scratch
enough money to make rent is a way to solve
that problem, but it's a way that comes with a
lot of pain and struggle. Right, maybe if you tried

(27:25):
something new, you might unlock some strategy that you've never
considered before that makes your life a little bit better.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
I agree, And you know what, it goes to the
next point. But before I get into that that, I
really want to really piggyback off the whole pride thing.
And like I said earlier, and now you're kind of reiterating,
I think a lot of times men suffer with that, Like,
like you said, well, I'm the man, I'm supposed to
be doing this, and it's like, sometimes I believe you'll

(27:54):
be putting a situation to strip you of certain things.
So in that moment, you still recount that and that
was how many years ago?

Speaker 2 (28:03):
That was twenty and twelve?

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Oh my, okay, so that was well what about thirteen
years ago? And even that defining moment changed your whole
view on like, you know, yeah, I'm a man, but
at the same time, we are still in a relationship,
and I was gonna let my pride cause an unnecessary
problem at the beginning of something that it didn't have

(28:27):
to be, you know, because that would have been a thing,
and you know, it just could have came up later.
So the fact that you kind of just said, Okay,
I'm gonna let you take care of it worked out
and then you after a while, you like, what was
I even worried about? It was just money, as many
things as I paid for and you know what I'm saying.
So it just it's just one of those things. But
this goes to the next point, which talks about impact
on self esteem and motivation according to how life stagnation

(28:50):
impacts self work. This comes from the nationalists to the
mental health Prolonged feelings are being stuck, condemning self esteem,
reducing one's motivation engaging activities they previously about them joy.
This creates a feedback loop where avoid its behaviors further
entrench feelings of helplessness, highlighting the importance of therapyal counseling
to re establish goals and rediscover purpose. Go back to that,

(29:12):
like the point about helplessness. In that moment you were
you felt helpless, but you weren't, yea, So it was
an illusion. Yeah, And it just kind of goes to
the point of a lot of things and the issues
we created in our minds. Sometimes, especially those neuer divergent
people and those people who are gifted and think everywhere

(29:34):
at once. It's like sometimes they'll unnecessarily create fires when
it wasn't even a smoke smell.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Stop calling me out like that, dude, Come on.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
What I'm saying. I mean, like I said, I even't
been diagnosed, but it's just a lot of things that
I do. Like I said, I don't need nobody sending
me an email saying you're an undiagnosed You're a liar.
I know because I saw how they told hubb y'all
not gonna tell me up like that. But yeah, yes,
So then the next point is neurological and physical stress.
According to the Science of Stress and Perceived Stagnation by

(30:07):
American Psychological Association, chronic feelings of feeling being stuck activate
the brain's stress response, leading to increased cortisone levels. This
prolonged stress not only impairs decision making and problem solving abilities,
but also can manifest physically through headaches, fatigue, or weakened immunity.
Addressing these symbols through stress management techniques is vital for
mental health recovery. So again more information about you know,

(30:32):
just neurological and physical stress and how that all you
know plays into everything and how your mind can affect
everything else. I remember reading which is actually about time
I read that book again to So Fast by Cindy
Trimp and tab of Writer. So the tagline is it's
not what you're eating, is what's eating you? But she
recounts the situation where a lady talked about the power

(30:54):
of your mind and how she was blindfolded and they
told her that they were going to put that she
was they were putting an ice cube in her hand.
She didn't know it was an ice cube, and so
they told her it was hot or something something, a
fire or something, and so they put the ice cub
in her hand, and she thought and she got burned
from the ice because they said, because of her mind,

(31:16):
believed that it was fire when it was ice, and
that it was actually a burn mark to show. I
don't know how true that is, but I've heard stories
like that before, to where your mind can really create
situations and things that weren't there.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Oh yeah, I mean, like I do a whole workshop
on like how neurodivitinal people have different sensory needs the
neurotypical people. And usually all I'll do is I'll like,
all right, guys, do you see here in my hand,
how I have this porcelain bowl. And they're looking at me.
I was like, guess I don't actually have a porcelain bowl.
I just have an imaginary one. I was like, and
here in my other hand, I have this metal fork.

(31:52):
I'm going to take my metal metal fork and put
it in the porcelain bowl, and then I'm gonna do this,
and like I just moved my hand and back and
forth real fast, like I'm like scrambling eggs, and people
fall out of their chairs. Man, people scream, and it's
like and like and once the room calms down, like
nothing actually happened, but to just to amplify your point, right,

(32:14):
that's how powerful our brains are. Our brains. If our
brains think something bad is going to happen to us,
our bodies prepared as though that thing is actually happening
to us.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
And I don't know if you saw my face kind
of scramble like as like I heard.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
That's why I saw it.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
And it was like I heard a sound, That's why
I was like but I'm like, nothing's right there, so
that yeah, and not like I heard it that's wow.
But this goes to the next point. So the title
of your book, the Neurodivergent Playbook, is compelling. I like
the title. I saw the cover and everything. So there's
a concept of breaking the cold. And so for neu
divergent people, how does this align with me and feeling

(32:55):
stuck in their lives currently?

Speaker 2 (32:58):
So so if you think, like, like, so for instance, right,
I was in the town I grew up in, right, Like,
we didn't have the arts. We just had sports. So
like soccer in the fall, hockey in the winter, basketball
in the spring, baseball in the summer. Like, and you know,

(33:18):
I was pretty good at soccer, I was okay at hockey,
I'm okay at basketball. I suck at baseball, right, But
like as a dude growing up in the nineties, I
mean like, there wasn't really a lot of other options, right,
And I like to draw and stuff, so like I
took the occasional art class. But like, you know, and
then I got to high school and my buddy that

(33:39):
I met playing soccer was like, you should join the
musical theater, that you should the musical with us, and
I was like, yeah, I don't know what that is.
He's like, well, do you want to play basketball? I'm like, well,
not really, Like you know, I was like, I like
shooting hoops with my dad in the driveway. But I
know if I get on the team, I'll be like
the eighth guy and like I might play a little

(34:00):
little bit, but like, why am I gonna like kill
myself all season like to not play a lot of
basketball on the freshman team? Come on? Like so I
so I joined the musical theater and like, while it
was a steep learning curve, it was the most fun
I had ever had in my life. I made lifelong friends.
So like, I think about how stuck I felt in

(34:22):
my life then, having plumbed, like plumbed the depths of
all those pools of sports, being like how much more
joy can I get from this shocker? Bro? There wasn't
any more joy to get, But they were all these
other ponds and pools out there. They were deeper and
richer for me, right, doing musical theater, becoming a stand

(34:42):
up comedian, doing improv, Like you know, now that I'm
a professional speaker, I can see how all those things
helped me. You know, now I use them as my profession.
Back then, I just did them to feel unstuck, right
because I was someone who could pivot. When I was
feeling tapped out with like the arts scene, I could go.
You know, I still played soccer, so I could just

(35:03):
like lean into like the sports world. But when I
felt like I didn't fit in the sports world, which
I didn't really like, then I knew I could always
call it my buddies from musical theater and we could
sing Broadway show tunes and a diner at two in
the morning, right like, you know, I could live all
those different aspects of my life. And you know, I
think a lot of men in particular feel like there

(35:25):
are very few pathways available to them, right, Like masculinity
looks like one thing, right, you know, and like, oh
my godness. But I think the more you talk to guys,
the more you realize like under that like did you
see the local sports team, game boy? They sure did sports, right, Like,

(35:48):
the more you get past that level, and I love sports,
I can talk sports about with anybody. Yeah, you're like,
oh man, this guy skateboarded back in the day, or
this guy did murals, or this guy was in a
average tap dancer until somebody in middle school told him
tap dancing was gay, so we stopped tap dancing, you know.
And it's just like, but there are men in whatever

(36:11):
field who are showing their masculinity through the things they do.
Whether it's somebody like you know, staying in the dance world,
like somebody like you know, you know, Twitch when he
was still with us, or something like Alvin Ailey, you know,
you know, I mean you think about like actors, singers, artists, right,
I mean chefs. I mean, like Bobby Flay is just

(36:34):
a badass, right, and like you know, like he's a
guy who spends his life in the kitchen, right, which
is not a thing that like is traditionally associated with masculinity.
So like, you know, a lot of what I say
to men when I see them in therapy is like,
think back to when you were eight years old, right,
what did you want to be when you were eight?

(36:55):
And like I wanted to be a palaeontologist. I wanted
to be a firefighter. I wanted to be a marine
biol I'm like, cool, what are you now? Like I'm
an account representative for a local insurance agency. I'm like,
cool with eight year old, do you punch you in
the nuts right now? And they're like, yeah, probably right now.
I'm not saying you can quit your job and become
a marine biologist, but like, even if you volunteer at

(37:19):
the local zoo on weekends, you're scratching that, it's enough.
You are tapping into another source of joy and engagement
in your life. If you give yourself permission to do that,
you're gonna find A you've got more joy and B
you're much more unstuck.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
So interesting, because you've made the comment about going back.
You made a lot of points first of all, but
you know, one thing that really stuck out for me
was the comment about going back to what you wanted
to do when you were eight years old. Now, going
into this year, y'all revealed to me that this next season,
for me and many other people, was about going back

(38:00):
to your roots, whatever that means for you. And this
is even before the new year started, and I'm definitely
in that phase of like, and I was just thinking
about that even before as I was getting this script together.
Just like you know, now, remember you're supposed to be
going back to your roots. It's something back there that
you need to do now. For me, since I was
a little boy, I remember, you know, I kind of

(38:20):
got into being a lawyer because I was told I
had the skill set for a lawyer, but I didn't
want to be no lawyer. I just kind of just
went along with it. But I didn't want to since
I was a you know, I was never little. When
I was smaller, I wanted to be entertainment, which obviously
that's what I'm doing now. So you know, it's entertainment
with a twist because I didn't see it like this,

(38:41):
and although this is just the beginning, of course, it's
still going to you know, it's layers, but I definitely
know for a fact that was one of the things.
And so a lot of people out there, like he said,
you might be a accountant, but we live in a
world where you could be an accountant. Watch this and say,
for instance, you do like to talk sports a lot,

(39:04):
and you can still start a YouTube channel with that,
still keep your accounting job, or.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
A podcast or a blog.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
You know, there's so many things you can do to
scratch that each and not just that in this world,
still get a check for it, you know, what I'm
saying everybody might not live off of their creative endeavors
full time. There's a lane for it if you want to,
and there's also a lane for if you want to
do it part time and just get a little side money.
So you know, it's so many things that we can do,

(39:32):
and somebody needed to hear that instead of I think
sometimes we get caught up and creating, especially as men,
and the whole thing, with the whole rent thing. I
think as a man, we've all been there where you
have to have some form of safety because I'm the man.
I can't be out here going outside and not pay
my rent and pay my bill. What kind of man
are you? You're not a man, You're a Yeah. So

(39:52):
it's like it's just something to keep in mind.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
There's a point about that you speak about the concepts
of the three prisons. This is self, social, occupational, and
so this obviously kind of going back to the roots.
This contributes to feelings of stagnation. What could you know?
How does realize a self awareness in recognizing the true

(40:21):
cause of feeling stuck and how can they start building it?

Speaker 2 (40:26):
So self awareness comes from a place of really looking
at what we're doing and why we're doing it. Right. So,
like when I was when I was single in my twenties,
like you know, a lot of my friends were like,

(40:47):
let's go to the club, right, Let's go to the club.
And I hated clubs. Like whatever game I've got is
not based on me being very good looking, even though
actually I am a pretty good dancer. But like whatever
game I have is based on me being clever and
witty and you know, charming in that sort of socially

(41:07):
offbeat way. None of that shit works at the club
because you're trying to give like a piffy one liner
and it's like, I mean, you can't hear yourself. So
I would like, but being single, thinking that's where the
girls are at these clubs, So I would go to them,
strike out all night, leave feeling miserable, like cool, I

(41:29):
just spent two hundred dollars to get shot down for
three hours, yeay. And so like I started intentionally, like
my friends would go to the club. I'm like, nah, man,
I'm going to go to the sports bar, or I'm
going to have a house party, or I'm going to
do some other sort of thing, and None of those
things were like the slam dunk. Oh, here's where I'm

(41:51):
going to find a girlfriend. But I found that every
time I went to those, even if I didn't leave
with somebody's phone number, I had a better time. Right,
So giving myself permission to do the things that worked
for me Matt as a guy in his twenties was
like part of like getting that unstuck because you're not

(42:13):
being slavish to what society tells you to do, you know,
And like even now, you know, I'm forty one and
I've got a wife and two kids in our house.
Like I do all the cooking, I do all the
grocery shopping, I do all the laundry. You know, I
do a lot of the cleaning. My wife does all
the construction. Like when we get like deliveries and like,

(42:33):
oh it's a power drill and a new bakewear setups,
Like I will take the bakewear, thank you very much,
And my Mofe's like, ah, power drill, let's go right,
And and it's the sort of thing like early in
our relationship we realized like she wasn't happy cooking dinner.
I hated fixing things she loved fixing things, and I

(42:55):
enjoy being in the kitchen, so like, why not be
the version of you that feels better in your soul
that it's aligned with your values? Right. But a lot
of that stuckness we feel is like, well, I'm not
allowed to do this because of who I am, right
to which I say, you know, well, if the only

(43:17):
person is telling you to do that, or the only
person that tells you can't do that is giant Air
quotes society. I can find you an example of someone
who's living that life, and I guarantee you they're happier
than you are. A lot of stuckness is wanting joy
but being afraid of the cost it would take you

(43:38):
to get that joint, and the fear keeps us stuck.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
I think that, like I said, and even when everything
about stagnation and being stuck in those three prisons, like
I never looked at it that way, you know, And
and a lot of the issue with the three persons,
as you mentioned, and recognizing self awareness and being stuff,
it's all about people pleasing to an extent because if

(44:05):
it was. You know, one question I've heard before is
what could you do with your life right now that
would make you just happy, and you wouldn't have to
worry about finances, you wouldn't have to worry about time,
You wouldn't even have to worry about what people thought
about you. People's lives will probably look drastically different. So
all right, good stuff. Now, let's go to the next segment.

(44:27):
This is where we get a little more spicy, and
this is the I challenged that section. Here come to
a new challenge. Yes, and in this section we challenge
kind of what's going on now. Before we get into that,
I have to ask you. So obviously you've done work
with neurodivergence. You've grown up, how you've grown up. You
talked about the things that have happened, you know, the

(44:49):
little pitfalls in life that are all needed, especially for
a man. So, as a speaker and a psychologist, how
has your experience with your mental health in general, like
just your whole mental health, mental illness, any of that
influenced your approach with helping others?

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Oh Man, So, I really think that a lot of
people are suffering in silence, right, And there's a lot
of societal stuff around mental illness, right. There's mentals who
are allowed to talk about mentals we're not allowed to
talk about. And those rules are different for men, and

(45:28):
they're different for white men versus men of color, right, Like,
that's they're just different rules here. So I when I'm
in a position to talk about mental health stuff, I'll,
you know, listen, I'll say, like, not only have I
taken medication for ADHD in the past, right, you know,
I've struggled with depression, I've struggled with anxiety. You know,

(45:49):
when I was a kid, I said no to everything
because I was like, I was scared. Like I'm like, listen,
I'm a really bright kid. I'm good at these seven things.
If the thing you want to do one of these
seven things, I'm your guy. If it's eight or nine
or ten or God help you, thirty seven hard pass,
I'm out right. And actually was taking classes in improv

(46:12):
where the fundamental rule of improv is we always say yes,
And that actually shifted my brain to like, well, what
happens to the world when you say yes? Like being
open to the world gives you more opportunities, gives you
more like moments of growth, moments of joy, and moments
of experience. They haven't all worked out for me. You know,
but but more way more have worked out for me

(46:35):
than haven't worked out for me, and I'm you know,
I'm benefit from that. So when one person says like, yeah, man,
there have been times where the idea of getting out
of bed was so overwhelming that I burst into tears
because I've been there. Like, if you say that story,
I guarantee you there's another person in that room who's like,

(46:57):
somebody else gets this, And I guarantee you there's somebody
else in that room who's like, I didn't know anybody
else ever felt that way, right, So there's you can
create community in the abstract. Even if those people don't
walk up to you and hold your hand and be like,
I'm with you, brother, it's they know that through that

(47:20):
story you've shared that they're not alone. Because if we
distill mental illness down to one thing, mental illness makes
us feel alone, like nobody else is this broken, nobody
else is this damage, nobody else struggles like I do,
And that's crap. That's our brain lying to us. But
if you don't have a counter narrative, if you don't
have something else, whether it's my voice or your voice

(47:42):
or your best friend's voice or God's voice saying to you, like, no,
you are beautiful and wonderful and have so much value
if the only voice in your head tells you you
suck and you don't believe you suck. And that's language
I think that all people benefit from. But take early men, right.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
It's interesting because so many people and that's why I
love this podcast, from different walks of life, from different experiences,
different races, different ages, you know, all come together and
there are so many people who've all felt the same
and different points, you know, whether it was not wanting
to get out of bed, Like a lot of us
are more common than we realize, like have more common

(48:27):
we realize, you might all. I've had a few people
say different backgrounds from X adult film actors to you
know X, you know, gang bangers and just all of
the sorts of people who grew up like yourself and
all having the same battles in some cases. And it's
like we have much more common people realize. And I
think that if we actually sat and listened to each

(48:47):
other a lot more, a lot more often now, we
would actually get more get along more than we realize.
And it also makes you kind of for me, I
just have a brain, and like I think and analogies,
especially with media. So like I think about those like
those shows where it's like those people from those social
experiment TV shows where all those people come together and
then the people who are the most not the least

(49:10):
the like tend to be the most the closest. And
it's always seems to work like that, no matter what show,
what network, what year, you even go back to years past,
you know, and it's just crazy how that works. I
want to commend you on building a brand that's built
around accessibility because you're very accessible. It's clear that you
can just get that, you're very personal. So I like that.

(49:31):
And just even from this little conversation, you can tell
you give a lot of practical advice. Something that I've
noticed between both of us, we can turn complex topics
and kind of make them well it's just like easier
to digest. So how do how do you make this happen?
Especially when it comes for actionable steps for me?

Speaker 2 (49:53):
So yeah, I also like a. I also like a
you know, a matter of for and you know, an analogy,
and it's usually pop culture, right, you know, for a
lot of like, so if I'm working with a nerdier guy.
But I'm like, you're gonna read You're gonna reach your
Sam Wise moment right where in you know, the first movie,

(50:13):
The Fellowship of the Ring. They're leaving and Sam stops
and he's like, this is as far as I've ever
been from my home. If I take one step further,
I'll have been further than I've ever been for my
home in my life. And that's scary. He's scared, right,
But photos like, but if you take one step further,
then that's the firtht you've ever been. If you take
one step further, that's the furthest you've ever been. Right,

(50:36):
We've never done anything until we've done it. But the
the way we co create reality by doing the things
we do, it's there's something very empowering about that. Because
we're we're we are not We don't have to be

(50:56):
the thing that we're trying to be. We are becoming
the thing we're to be. It's an active process, right.
They don't just show up in mortar, They walk to mortar.
Walking's an active verb, right. And you know, if you
think about somebody like you know, if I'm working with
a guy who's like more sports guy, like a golfer,
you know, like Tiger Woods is a great example of

(51:17):
somebody who got very far on raw natural talent and
then realized that like this stuff underneath his raw natural
talent wasn't sustainable. Right, He's like, I got to hire
a swing coach. I gotta figure out how to have
like a repeatable motion that works for my body and people.
When he had a swing coach, people like you're Tiger

(51:38):
freakin Woods. This is like Michael Jordan hiring like a
shot coach, Like why do you need this? And he's like,
because I'm just getting by on raw talent. I need
to get by on good practice. And a lot of
us out there are getting by just on raw talent, right,
And that's amazing, that's so cool. But imagine how much
easier your life could be if your raw talent was

(52:01):
supported by better practice.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
Right.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
As a speaker, now, like I go back and listen
to my tapes like Monday Morning Quarterback, having done professional
talks over almost a thousand times now and having taken
speaker dreaming, I can hear how much better I am now, yeah, right,
Versus those first talks where it's like good lord, it's
like bad improv, like you don't really want to listen

(52:25):
to it. Yeah, you can't get to where you are
now if you weren't willing to start.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
Then.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
See, I'm sure if you went back and listened to
the first episode of this podcast, like like I know
where you go, don't do that, don't.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
I hate him. I hate him. I'm not gonna lie.
Go ahead, I hate him so much.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Oh my god, I mean me too, right, But think
about how you sound now, think about how amazing you
are now, Like you don't get to be that guy
throughout So what equity without the war? And if you're
doing something you love doing, if it's towards a thing
that is aligned with your values, the work's always gonna

(53:10):
be there. But the work sucks a lot less if
it's something you're you're really enjoying doing.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Yeah, And that's the thing. Like, even go back to
those old episodes like I'm not gonna lie. It's a
handful that are deleted, but I couldn't delete the whole season,
Like the very first episode is still there, and I
hate that for me, but it's there. And you know,
I just believe some people. I know I have a friend,
he said, he listens to them, but he doesn't listen
to them when they drop. He says, he actually kind

(53:38):
of goes He's like I think he said he's around
like season five now, like he's like literally went from
the beginning and just kind of played them through. I'm
like me, I kind of say, it's not a TV show.
You don't have to do it that way, but you
know whatever, But I get it. And there are some
people who even gonna find me today, you know, or
tomorrow or you know, in the future, who will do
that and see the growth from the audio to the

(53:58):
topics to the conversation to things I said. I used
to curse every other word. Now I don't even curse
any Like, it's so many things that you will hear differently,
so it's needed. But it is kind of like, you know, now,
I got a question because we are in the challenge section.
I just need a short yes or no. But I'm
gonna go into details. So can being stuck be a
good thing?

Speaker 2 (54:20):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (54:22):
I agree. Now I'm gonna say this and I'm gonna explain.
So being stuck can be a good thing because it's
a time to reassess. There won't always be a time
when you will always just go up, you know what
I'm saying. A great example, I used weight loss all
the time because I lost what's fifty now six sixty
five seventy pounds and you know, have kept it off.

(54:44):
But before then I had lost around forty and it
was just plateau for a long time because I kept
doing what I was doing, thinking okay, this work. Then
the next week, okay, what happened? You know what I'm saying,
and realizing it was time to reassess, and also sometimes
being stuck and being good thing because you've done all
that you can and now this is the point where

(55:05):
you have to let God step in. So I have
Isaiah sixty four to fourth states that since the beginning
of the world, no one has heard, proceeds or seen
any God besides the one who asks for those that
wait on him. So with that and what I've learned
in my life personally, when you say, for example, throwing
myself out there again, and I brought this up last

(55:26):
season about how I was went full time entrepreneur and
there were days I was like in times and applications
where I went back, tried to go back to education
and tried this and applications here and there, and you
see my resume, you're thinking, oh, well, you're gonna go
right back. No, these people would not hire me, they

(55:47):
wouldn't call me back. They would get me to the final.
Watch this the final, look at the camera, the final round,
the final round, multiple times, say thanks forving with somebody else,
and then I will always see that job is open
again in three to six months. So I'm like, if
you had just picked me, I would have been there.
But boom, that's the problem because you would have been there.

(56:09):
It's been stuck there and got comfortable there, and that's
not where you were supposed to be. And that's the
problem that a lot of people have. We get stuck,
we get comfortable, yep, because men don't want to fail.
So when it comes to the topic of failure, that's
a nice segue. And why do you think it's so

(56:30):
hard for men to tolerate failure and how can they
learn to embrace it for their growth?

Speaker 2 (56:38):
I mean, I think society tells us that failure's weakness, right,
and men aren't allowed to be weak, right. Men don't
get sad, they get angry. They don't get scared, they
get angry. They don't get overwhelmed them. They get angry, right,
you know what I mean? You know, take about like
think about all those holes punched in the drywall all
over this country, right, I mean, it's it's not some

(57:00):
that's just raw anger, a lot of that though. His
anger is the mask other feelings wear.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
Right.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
So, and the idea is that we see failure as
this end point. I failed the end, right, but everybody
has failed, and failure is an unavoidable concept. And actually
the more mental energy we spend trying to avoid failure,
the more likely we invited into our lives. And you know,

(57:30):
and they found in a they did, they had Shaquiloneo
come out on to sports science or as you know,
guy famously struggled shooting free throws in basketball, and they
found that the more anxious he was about missing the shot,
the tighter his muscles got. Like his body was literally tighter,
and a tighter body is harder to shoot. So the

(57:52):
more anxious he was, he was actually creating a self
fulfilling prophecy, right, Like he was making his body less
able to do the thing that would have made him
less anxious.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
Right.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
So if you shoot and you miss, it's like you know,
I'm going to quote the patron saint of gifted kids here,
Miss Frizzle. You know, if at first you don't succeed,
find out why, right, And I think that's the question.
Men aren't taught, right, We're not taught to learn from

(58:25):
our mistakes. Right. If you miss that free throw, well
maybe you shouldn't shoot it that way. Maybe you should
shoot it a different way. You know, if you strike
out with these girls at the club, maybe you should
be flirting with different kinds of girls. Like you know,
it applies to all aspects of life, from finance to
fitness and everything in between. But you've got to be

(58:45):
willing to think about those other pathways.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
So that's a good question. And this is something I'm
definitely gonna clip. So was Miss Frizzle Drives in a
bus of gifted children?

Speaker 2 (58:59):
Miss Frizzle's death only gifted? I think some of the
kids in that class are gifted. I think Da is usually,
you know, she's like the book smart kid, you know, Arnold,
I know he's just an anxious mess, right, But there's
a I'm.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
Sorry, that's a neuro diversion.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
But I always thought that, uh, I think it's uh Frankie.
I think, you know, Frankie's like the kid who's like,
you know, like who just knows a lot about the
science of things but doesn't really talk to anybody else.
I was like, man, that's my whole case load. That's
Monday through Friday for me. So yeah, there's a lot
of Nerdi virgin kids at Miss Frizzles school, So you know.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
What that was like, it's memes that have gone around
over the years that will be like somebody like imitating
going off on like Miss frizzle for taking their kids out.
But you know what if that would make sense, if
that if that was the you know, like those TV
shows have the secret theories behind them, like on the Rug,
West has One and Curis Cowari all of them have

(01:00:01):
like those secret like theories. Maybe the secret theory is
that all those kids were gifted and that was her
way of taking these neurodivergent kids on so they can
learn because they had to learn in a different way
than just paper and pin. So that's interesting. I wonder
if that could be the case that we might have
cracked that case to that. I didn't plan on that,
but no, you're gonna end up here either. Yeah, but

(01:00:25):
here we are and I love it all right a
lot of times, and like we have to be humbled.
It is better to stay humble than to get humbled,
because a lot of times being humble means you get embarrassed.
Sometimes that's needed. Though, what do you think the connection
is between being humbled and finding breakthrough?

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
I think being humble means not only understanding you can't
do everything yourself, but it's also it's also being willing
to accept the advice and support that comes from people
outside yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
Okay, now you often say life SAYNS harder and me,
well we are to talk about that one. Okay, No, no,
I know what I said, Life SAYNS harder than needs
you on the right track?

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Yeah, I mean like, so is he do you? Do
you play video games? Though?

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Absolutely?

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
I mean actually knew the answer to that, but you
know it's like it's so like you're playing a video game, right,
you know, you're doing a fighting game, or you're doing
a you know, a side scroller. Like if the bad
guys are getting harder and you're in a dungeon and
the music's changed, are you in the right direction or
the wrong direction?

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
You're hitting in the right direction. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
The the idea here is that failures, instructive failure, means
we're going the right direction. The great irony is that
the more you fail, the better you're getting it something
because you're pushing yourself towards the right direction. My father
in law's musician, he always says, he's like, you never
want to be the best musician in your own band, right,
Like that's like you're always pushing for like like you know,

(01:02:00):
to be in that next group, that next table, and
you know, and there's a humility that comes with that
because you know, you think about you know, like you
know about like these super teams in basketball, right, Like
you know, Lebron could be the alpha dog on his
team until he's fifty, or he teams up with Dwayne
Wade and Chris Bosh, or he teams up with Kevin

(01:02:23):
Love in Cleveland, or he teams up with Anthony Davis
in LA Like he's a guy who understands that like,
if you want to go fast, go alone, If you
want to go far, go together, right, And and then
you know that wings back to that humility thing, because
it takes a lot of humility to understand that that
there is there is more joy for all of us

(01:02:46):
if you get the right team around you. Then if
you just say, like no, I'm a lone wolf, alpha male,
solo dog, whatever words you want to use, like man,
that doesn't help us, right because then when you and
ever fail, and you will inevitably fail, you don't have
anybody sitting there like, hey, here's what we learned from this,
here's what we can do different next time. You are

(01:03:09):
handcuffed by the limits of your own experience and the
biases and blind spots that come with that experience.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
Okay, I think I like that too, because you know,
dangerously not dangerously, but I got a nasty flash like
I used to play Resident Evil games a lot back
in the day. Yes, and I just think about you.
You hear nothing, and I know you're like, dude, oh
my god, and just like here we go, like you
know something about the time of corner.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
The liquer is coming, man, the liquors.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
Yeah. No, I was just like here we go, here
we go now, okay, Okay, So going back to your book,
the book highlights the challenges of navigating a neurotypical world.
So in this time, you know a lot of neurodivergent
me and just people people in general. You know, they
hear the terms strange, weird, odd, awkward, difficult, what's another

(01:04:08):
one they hear? People don't sometimes they want to be
around them. Uh hear that like here they come like,
you know, you gotta you know, so when dealing with that,
what is the biggest misconception people have about me is
mental health and neurodivergence together.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
So that neudi virgence is more than just autism, and
it's more than just hyperactive ADHD. Right. Men can have OCD,
Men can be gifted, men can be dyslexic. Right, Men
can have all sorts of those things put together. Men
have sensory needs, you know. And I think that if

(01:04:48):
mental health is just part of health, right, then actually,
you know what, so like I had I think many
years ago, I saw a guy who he he was
at like a fancy event with his wife and his
best friend. They were sitting on the table together. He's
he was like, I'm not feeling so hot. I'm gonna
go home. His best friend's like, oh cool, I'll drive you.

(01:05:09):
He's and my kind's like, yeah, I'm gonna say here,
I'm another drink, right, has another drink when something of
the raffle gets an uber home, gets home, his wife's asleep, he's,
you know, getting undress up. But he looks at and
sees his best friend's watch on the table in his bedroom. Right,
what does his brain go.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
To, Oh, hey, he loves his watch. Oh no, cheating, cheating, cheating.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
I was like, oh man, that's adorable. Yeah. Yeah, like no,
my my wife is you know, messing around with my
best friend. Right, And he's like, and for two years,
he's like, I struggled with executive a rectile dysfunction. And
he's like, I could not get an erection for two years.
And he saw every specialist on the East Coast. He
saw cardiovascular, he saw you know, pulmonary, he saw digestive,

(01:05:57):
he saw urinary, he saw everybody. And finally somebody's like,
go see a mental health professional, go see a shrink.
Talk to me. He tells me that story. I was like, so,
is it possible that you've been so anxious on whether
your wife is cheating on you for two years that
you can't get a direction. He's like, well, yeah, I
guess that makes sense. I was like, so, can we
talk to your wife about it. He's like, well, but

(01:06:19):
what if what if it's true? I'm like, that'll suck,
But like, but what if it's not true. I was like,
because in this situation, you're either gonna win and like,
oh cool, my wife isn't cheating on me, or you're
turn that my wife is cheating on me, and you'll
make decisions based on that information.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
So we brought her in and you know, and like
we explained the situation and she bursts into tears and
I was thinking, like, oh damn, it's like that. She's like,
you've been sitting on this for two years. She's like,
you know what happened two years ago? I said I
wasn't feeling well right, And he's like yeah, She's like
I came home and I was gonna throw up. He's like,
she's like, you're her best friend held my hairback as

(01:07:02):
I vomited, got vomit on his watch. She's like, take
it off. I'll have it cleaned for you. She passed
out right, like so unwittingly, this guy comes home an
hour and a half later sees this makes a reasonable
conclusion based on the evidence prevented to him. Right, But
you know, she's like you haven't talked to your best

(01:07:24):
friend in two years, and he's like, yeah, that's that's all.
That's also true, right, So like it's the sort of
thing like the truth may not set us free, but
the truth will absolutely help us make better decisions. Right,
there's an empowerment that comes with that. But this gets
back to once again the idea of humility, Like it
takes a lot of humility to ask that question, takes

(01:07:46):
a lot of humility to ask for help. And every
time men like us have this conversation, especially in a
public forum where other people can hear us, we're hopefully
inspiring other men out there to say, yeah, you know,
that is help I would benefit for and making the
world a better place.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
That man didn't talk to that man for two years
for that and not saying it wasn't a reason. But
you could have just easily to sit on there for
two years. Two months maybe, but two years that's.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
A long years. Well, And it was like the longer
I waited, the harder it got to say it, The
harder it got to say it, the longer I waited,
I'm like that that's anxiety, man, That's what anxiety does
for us. But like the problem is only gets bigger
in our head. The only way out is through you
gotta face it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
But you know, it makes me think about like when
you talk about Rick t how dysfunction in this generation.
Of course, a lot of us were not of me
hold on, but a lot of drugs and stuff, and
you know that'd be messing with the you know, the
other brain as well. But a lot of times you
can't do nothing because it's anxiety. You might've got too
anxious and you couldn't do anything. And it's just so
funny once again, how the mind works for your something

(01:08:57):
that your body naturally does. So you can't even get
into a direction because you were so like, that's crazy,
how like the powerful the mind is so somebody out
here you might need to go talk, You may can't
get it up. It may be because of drugs, alcohol
and diet. It could just be because you anxious or something.

(01:09:17):
All right, let's go into the next segment, which is
a final segment for this great conversation today, and this
is the weekly sabbatical, and then this time we kind
of reflect. Now before I get into my questions about
your personal experience, I have to think about something, well,
I have to ask you a question, but I'm basing
it off me so growing up, like I said, I've
eve been diagnosed. I'm gonna keep reiterating that although the

(01:09:39):
signs are kind of there. On Mom's a speech with
their speech pathologists. She always said she thought it was
something because you know she diagnoses people. You know that
they do. So have you always found it that people
misinterpreted things that you would do and say, where you
would do something one way and they took it in

(01:10:00):
negative way, And you're just as confused because you're like, now,
I didn't mean for it to come off that way.
And then I know for me, I spen times when
you be called selfish or you're an evil person, it's like, wait, no,
I didn't mean it that. You know, I didn't mean
it that way. Why are you taking it that way? Okay,
so you as well? Oh yeah, So another theory about

(01:10:20):
a TV show. I'm sure you've heard of the old
show Everybody Hates Chris. I wonder if that was his
case too.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
Oh, I I mean Chris, Chris Rock is a wildly
gifted person, like he's like he's in mensa, Like I
think he's got like a one sixty four IQ something
like that, Like it's he's super high and like and
I mean, yeah, part of that is just like he's
so off beating. He was so observational, he was you know,

(01:10:50):
he wasn't picking up on the same social cues as
everybody else. So he's the guy who would say that thing, right,
and people would get upset with him. And I can't
tell you how many of my kids say to me,
it's like, why did people get mad at me when
I answer their questions honestly? Or why did people get
mad at me when when everyone seems to be following

(01:11:12):
some rule I don't know existed, Right, there's all these unspoken,
unwritten rules that neurotypical people tend to know and pick
up on. Neurodivision people tend to struggle with a right.
That's actually why the subtitle of my book is, you know,
breaking the code of a world not built for you, right,
because that's the thing, Like there's a lot of you know,

(01:11:32):
I tell the story of my book when I lived
with my grandparents for a little while and one day
my grandmother she you know, she's she's not well right now, unfortunately,
but you know, she she came up to me. I
was sitting in the kitchen. She's like, oh, it's it
might rain today. I was like, oh, thanks, Dana, you know, okay, right,
and I'm sit there, keep reading my paper, I have

(01:11:54):
my coffee. I got a text message from my mom.
She's like, hey, Nana's upset. I'm like, why is Dana upset?
She said, well, she asked you to take in the
laundry off the clothes and I'm like, no, she didn't.
She only told me it was gonna rain today.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
And I used to get in trouble for stuff like that.
And I'm like, I show you that. And I was like,
you didn't say that, And they're like, well, I just thought.
I said, well, no, let's be a little more direct.
Let's stop just saying you know, like, how do you
get like you should just say that? But okay? But
either way, well, right now, going back to this this time,
we kind of think about you. You just spoke congratulations

(01:12:30):
speaking over four hundred stages, and I'm sure four hundred
more coming. What's the most impactful story moment you've experienced
during your career?

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
The most impactful there was? So is that my favorite
story to tell? Or is it like the most, the
thing that's shaped me most.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
We really could do both, honestly.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
Yeah, all right, so I will so I will, I
will say this. So there was I got to speak
at the Grant Haliburton Foundation conference a couple of years ago,
and they support you know, they're trying to raise awareness
of teen suicide in particular, and they had me come

(01:13:18):
in and you know, talk about mental health and how
it you know, shapes us and you know, different people's
experiences with it. But I got to tell a story
about a kid who I worked with, and this ties
it nicely to like, you know, what we call pragmatic
language use, right, so like what people say us what
they mean. So this kid, you know, gifted and autistic.

(01:13:39):
He's in high school. His school counselor says to him, like, hey,
you want to make more friends, you should talk to
boys about what you have in common with them. And
he was like, cool, that makes sense, that's a logical
thing to do. He's a very concrete kid. So he
leaves the school counsel's office, he walks down the hallway,
he goes to the bathroom. Right he's at the urinal
door opens, another dude comes in, so it's being in

(01:14:00):
the arral next to him, my client thinks, I'm supposed
to talk to boys about things that we have in common.
You can probably guess where this is going. Is he right?
And he's like, Oh, I really like your let's just
say boxers, right, And the kids like, yo, dude, what
the And my client was like, oh my god. We
go and like he ran and hit in the bathroom

(01:14:22):
and when a school resource officer came to get him,
he said he was suicidal. And the Garoninal Hospital that's
where he met me. I was working in patient at
the time, and I got to do the transition planning
back to school and we were sitting in there and
we're talking to this the principal and the councilor, and
we brought the other kid in and he was like,
you know, my client was like, I'm just just trying

(01:14:44):
to connect with you. He's like, I'm really sorry, I'm
trying to talk about things we have in common. And
this kid, God bless him, was like, dude, we have
so much in common. He's like, we're in like three
of the same classes. And I know you really like legos?
Do you know I do legos too? And my client
was like, I didn't know you like legos and he's like, yeah, man,
you should come over play legos time. Right, it was
the most beautiful moment, right, But this is a kid

(01:15:06):
who then like it was not his first time feeling suicidal,
let's say it that way, right, And now he had
a friend and that kid convinced him to go to
homecoming and then convinced him to go to prom later
that year, and then he left. He was a year older,
so he went to college. My client followed him to college.

(01:15:28):
This kid was in a fraternity. My client joined a fraternity,
and I was like, this kid is in a frat,
are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
And like you know when he just graduated from a
pretty great university with a degree in education and he's
going to be a teacher. He was actually teaching. Now
he's a teacher, and it's I gotta stop talking about
that in the past tense and like, the thing that
blows my mind about this is that this story could
have gone so many different ways. It could have gone

(01:15:56):
off the rails, it could have ended in tragedy, and
through some hard work from a lot of great adults
in this kid's life. You know, this kid is not
only just surviving but thriving.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
So, like I always get choked up when I tell
this story because like it's so their ner nerd divergent
kids go through those moments all the time. It's not
always that exact moment, right, just to feel like you're
broken and different and no one gets you and no
one will ever get you. Like I just say this
to them, it's like, you're not alone. You know, you

(01:16:32):
know twenty percent of people are neuro divergent. There's all
you have community out there, and if this is the
podcast that gets you to look for that community, then
then you're well then welcome, like we're here for you. Yeah,
that's what's going to save the world. It's not going
to be do it alone. It's going to be doing together.
Just like to say to echo what you said earlier
is it's like found the right table to sit at.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
Right. So that's a great story, Like I say that
will probably you said the most. Definitely that's a success
story for sure, because like I said, a lot of times,
those type of kids and being the ex educated myself,
you see the ones in my case, I wonder like
whatever happened to this one or whatever happened, and some
of them are actually still follow me on Instagram, But

(01:17:15):
some of the older ones, I'm like, do you know
from back in the day, I'm like, wonder how they doing,
you know, because now I know that some of them
either in college or about to go and when I
meet them, they were fourth and fifth grade. So a
lot of my last few questions actually kind of been
answered because I can answer, like I know something about
the social prison. It was like, if you're isolating and

(01:17:35):
building meaningful connections, is finding things in common with people
and the world we live in now is so much
more easier to do that. Maybe this is maybe you
add more fuel to the fire of your case study
on me. But I've always found made friends online, and
so since I was like fifteen, and so one of
my my friends kind of make the joke like, oh,

(01:17:56):
you always got those ten piles. I was like, and
they said, you need a lot of free so fruits
and creeps online. Honestly, I've never met him. I'm even
more in real life than online. So that's just my thing.
But that's something I've always done. What everyone thought was
a little strange, like I talked to people in real life,
but I don't want to talk to people online, but
it's because of me talking to people online one platforms
like this can thrive. But also it's allowed me to

(01:18:19):
make connections and different things, you know, that's why, you know.
So I just think that's something that another norm or
that's not deemed normal, is my norm, and I've actually
encouraged people to do it, but so many people are
hesitant to do it. And I think it's just about
finding those connections and jumping out of that box. You
know that people are afraid to what you talk about
the man box that people are. Can you briefly describe

(01:18:42):
that for us?

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
So the box is really just it's the combination of
what we hear from other people, what we believe about ourselves,
and what we perceive and the way we perceive the
world through all or nothing thinking. Right, So, like if

(01:19:05):
you wanted to be a marine biologist when you were
eight and now you're an accountant, Yeah, man, you probably
can't go and become a marine biologist right now. I
don't know if you can do that, but you can
absolutely go to lectures on marine biology and you can
volunteer at an aquarium or you can you know, like
join the park Rangers at the local lake and walk

(01:19:25):
around the lake and enjoy the lake. You know, I'm
never going to play professional soccer, but I am a
better and happier person when I play soccer in the
men's league. It's way too cold to do it right now,
but we'll start back up in the spring. Right, So,
like the box is a lot of bad messaging, but

(01:19:46):
it's a lot of also defeating self beliefs. That's like, oh,
I'm never going to be d one basketball player, so
I shouldn't shouldn't hoop. It's like, dude, you know how
many guys are with the why just hooping right now?
Like just like just pick up a ball, Like that's it.
We got to give our permissions to do what I
like ourselves permission to do what I call bottom up thinking. Right,

(01:20:07):
if you think top down, it's the best, and anything
worse than the best is bad. Bottom up thinking is
the default is we do nothing. Everything we add is value.
So if you take one dribble of a basketball today,
if you run ten steps today, if you do one
push up today, that's all value added. If you do
It's like I have to be good at basketball or
physically fit, those things are gonna seem his failures. We're

(01:20:29):
gonna be like, so, look how far I awhere I
am for my goal. I like to think about it
is look how far I've come from doing nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:20:37):
So let me ask this before I ask the final
last question for real. So he talked about playing basketball
at the YMCA. Now I'm a little bit of a
a aa heretic. I guess when you come to this topic,
if they're playing basketball at the YMC at an old age,
which I'm all for health and wellness and doing whatever
you know, fulfilling that void, do you think they should

(01:20:58):
be still considering themselves an athlete.

Speaker 2 (01:21:03):
I mean, I don't know if I'm in a position
to pine on anybody being an athlete. You know, I've
bodied by craft beer, you know. I mean listen, if
you if you're taking care of yourself and you were
adjusting your levels for the state of life you're in
right now, then I think, yeah, you're an athlete. It's
just like just be smart about it. Like you know,

(01:21:23):
all the guys I see who get hurt playing sports
are when like the fifty year old's like yo, I
used to be good at skiing. I'm gonna go down
this double black diamond. I'll see you in the er
bro Like you know, I mean, like I can't do
this stuff at forty one that I could do with
twenty one. But I know I'm doing my best to
come to peace with that. My back hurts all the time,
you know. So you know that's like, you know, I

(01:21:46):
can't drink like when I was when I in my twenties.
I can't hoop like I was in my twenties. That
doesn't mean I can't drink. It doesn't mean I can't hoop.
It just means just be smarter about it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:56):
Right, So yeah, all right, final question. If there's one
thing me and should take away from this conversation, what
do you think it would.

Speaker 2 (01:22:04):
Be that there are more resources and supports out there
than you could possibly imagine. Like, getting unstuck doesn't look
like one thing. It can't look like one thing. It
shouldn't look like one thing. Mental health is the same way, right,
you could talk to somebody like me in an office,
you could do zoom, you could do text, you could

(01:22:24):
go to support groups. There's so many things out there,
and so you know, so talk to somebody like me
and we'll paint you a picture of what the options
are and we'll find one that works for you, because
your life is worth living in a way that makes you,
that brings your joy.

Speaker 1 (01:22:44):
All right, good stuff. Final thing for the audience, all right,
question the challenge for the week. Do you still feel
stuck after this episode? And the other question is did
you realize what you needed to adjust? All right? Lord,
I didn't kind of fell off with paying y'all for
answering those questions and challenges, but this season we own it.
So yeah, Remember you win money the cash app of

(01:23:06):
either the first person wins ten dollars, second person fifteen,
third person twenty five. So remember, the more chances you answer,
the more chance you have to win. So make sure
you answer those questions and challenges and then tag me
at psad me into a podcast or underscore eazy like
Oven and make sure you do that. Thank you again
for coming on. Anything else you want to give to

(01:23:28):
the people pluggain before you go to that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:31):
I mean, that's just you know, if you want to
follow me on the socials, it's you know, Dr Manskreski
on Instagram and Facebook. I'm sortin TikTok, but I haven't
really gotten that up and running yet. And my book
is available on Amazon, The Neudiversity Playbook. You also can
get on my website doctor Mantecreski dot com. I hope

(01:23:51):
you'll find it helpful.

Speaker 1 (01:23:53):
All right, y'all, So thank you all for tuning in
and thank you for coming on. And next week we
got another great episode so PSA. Now, I always remember,
keep your head of like in that curve, Remember who
you are, make your mind up, don't let it make you,
and remember, as always, I love us for real

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