May 28, 2025 • 45 mins
Hey Angels! Feeling trapped in the endless pursuit of more?
In this powerful episode of Quality Queen Control, Asha Christina sits down with Keren Eldad, author of Gilded, to explore her incredible journey from the Israel Defense Forces to a top C-suite coach. Keren shares raw insights on why external success can leave you empty and how to break free from the relentless chase for more. Ready to find true fulfillment and live authentically? Tune in for faith-fueled wisdom and practical tips to redefine success on YOUR terms!
In this powerful episode of Quality Queen Control, Asha Christina sits down with Keren Eldad, author of Gilded, to explore her incredible journey from the Israel Defense Forces to a top C-suite coach. Keren shares raw insights on why external success can leave you empty and how to break free from the relentless chase for more. Ready to find true fulfillment and live authentically? Tune in for faith-fueled wisdom and practical tips to redefine success on YOUR terms!
- What You’ll Learn: How to stop chasing hollow victories, embrace authenticity, and find peace beyond external success.
- Join the A-Team: Rate, review, and follow on Spotify or Apple Podcasts! Connect with Asha @ashachristinafoster on Instagram for more inspo.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You want the husband, you want the nice things, you
want the house, you want, the promotions. Unfortunately, we have
to maintain them. And because every time you crack a
next level, it requires the next level. And so you
have to start understanding that the external pursuit is never ending.
It is its own cage.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Heaybabe, it's Nasha, Christina. This is Quality Queen Control. What
is happening?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Everyone, Welcome Karen to Quality Queen Control. Thank you so
much for joining us.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Thank you so much for having me. It's been worth
the waight already.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yes, we definitely had a bit of a interesting start,
very delayed technical difficulties, but nonetheless we are here. So
your background is actually very remarkable. Doing my research on
you from Israeli defense.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
You know, forces to C suite like coach.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I want to know what personal experiences of yours shaped
your approach around leadership and what ultimately led to your
fulfillment in that way.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I'm so happy that you started with this question, Asha,
because no one, I mean literally only one person has
asked me about my experience and the IDEF, and it
gives me an opportunity to say that I believe that
everything I learned about leadership. I learned in the army.
I learned humility, and I learned service to something bigger
than myself. And those are truly the two biggest things
that you can learn as a leader. It's not about you,
(01:35):
It's about something bigger than you, and it is an
honor to serve. It is a privilege to be in
that position, not an entitlement, and that has truly informed
my mindset and my understanding of not only leadership, but
even my work as a coach. This is not about me,
and this is about service to something bigger than myself,
(01:55):
and it is an honor and a privilege to get
to walk beside you on your journey.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I love that approach because it's so funny.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I feel like right now where we're at in the
social climate is people are realizing the difference between like
selfish content and also offering value, and oftentimes people tend
to view leadership sometimes like a dictatorship, as opposed to
actually serving what it's really ultimately about. So, was there
a defining moment where you would say that you realize
(02:28):
that traditional success wasn't necessarily enough, right, it was actually
time to break out of the gilded page.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Nice plug there, sister, a new book, Gilded. I want
to say two things. The first is yes, there was
a big breakthrough moment for me. And number two I
lived that breakthrough moment again and again and again. I'll
start by the breakthrough moment that led to my practice
and led to Gilded. I am a classic overachiever, like
many of your listeners. What I mean by classicalver achiever
(02:59):
is super intense, obsessive type a a student, go get
him type personality. We are born this way. Any freak
show out there who is like this knows this. We
don't need to be told to do stuff. We go
out and we do it and we give ten thousand percent. Unfortunately,
(03:19):
that produced a very relentless pursuit of ambition that went
out of control. By the time I was in my
very early thirties. I had to achieve the absolute best.
I had to have the C suite position. I had
to have the tall husband. This was very important to me.
I have to have the the low one hundred and
twenty pounds weight class and esthetic control. I'm five foot five,
(03:46):
so one hundred and twenty pounds is quite low. Just
letting you know out there and so I do this
for a very aggressive period of my life. At least
fifteen years of my life were dedicated to this hustle,
to this climb. And then it produces in me what
it produces in all other of achievers, not only relentless, obsessive,
anxious pursuit, but also lying the facade, not dictatorship, what
(04:09):
you said in leadership, but lying to maintain that appearance,
subsuming my kindness and my lovingness and my warmth in
order to maintain that position, telling people nonsense on Instagram
about how cool and awesome my life was in order
to maintain that position of awesomeness. And I realized very
(04:32):
quickly that this was a gilded cage. I realized it because,
first and foremost, while I was living in a gorgeous
house and had a CCPE position, I liked neither of them.
The house was in Zurich, which is a terrible and
boring city. The marriage was a complete cham I was
in an abusive relationship, and while the job was pretty good,
I was at the head of the marketing team of
(04:52):
a luxury brand sensational, very devil worse product. It was
also very devil worse product. Which, let me remind you
what's kind of a nightmare and definitely not living my
soul's purpose here on earth, right, like just exhausting myself,
burning the candle that burned both ends, and kind of
behaving in an aggressive social climbing way, and at the
(05:14):
end of the day going home to someone I legit
could not stand. This is a gilded cage. This is
a cage that is very shiny and very pretty from
the outside, but is actually fake gold. No you tell me,
do you prefer real gold or fake gold?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Real gold, real gold all the way.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Real gold, all the way. So one day I thought
I can't do this anymore. I'm done with this nonsense illusion,
and I burned it all to the ground, which was
super grave of me. And today I help people do
this again and again, which brings me to the part
where I talk to you about how I rejected this
now on the fly, listen in the coaching industry, the
podcasting industry, a lot of it's an entertainment industry, sitch right.
(05:54):
In other words, people are lying to you all the time,
all day every day. I just saw somebody just talk
about I don't know, there's six hundred thousand dollars a month,
and I was sitting there going, I feel like that's
not accurate, not because I have never seen it and
people are not sensationally successful. It just makes no sense
to be in that stance constantly and to talk about
(06:15):
self promotion constantly, rather than to be in what we
talked about in the initial phase of this talk, which
is service to something bigger than yourself. And it is
an honor to be here. Not look at me, look
how awesome I am. You should be like me to
be here, which is a completely different stance. This is it,
this is my mindset. Now, this is my religion. Now
(06:37):
we're here.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
There are just so many gems with everything that you
just said.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Actually, I do understand that culture that you're speaking of,
where you see the certain individuals they post online.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
And something I think it's a gift.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
That maybe like you and I have and other individual's
possess that same gift. But something about it just feels
intuitively like I don't think that that's the case.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I don't buy it, Yeah, absolutely don't.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
And so it's just it's funny, how you know, great
minds really genuinely do think alike. Now, speaking of the
Gilded Cage, I mean, this is so perfect and on
brand for me being in my early thirties and just
navigating through life. A lot of the things that I
thought that I wanted things are manifesting for me in
(07:32):
a completely different way than I entirely imagine. And so
what I thought was this perfect thing or said thing,
I'm realizing is nothing of the sort. And so navigating
through those challenges and whatever, you know, life is throwing
at me, I'm learning, like wow, authenticity one speaks for itself,
(07:53):
and that you being true to yourself and showcasing that
is one of the best things that you can do,
and true leadership people will follow you when you are
genuinely confident. At the end, the facade is always going
to fall down. So I want to say even kudos
to you for burning that down and building something authentic
(08:16):
to you. I honestly hats off to.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
You, and I really really admire.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
That, so thank you. I couldn't live a lie any longer.
I just wanted to underline this. So there's a quote
that opens my book that I truly love and it
breaks my heart at the same time. It's by Matthew Perry,
who played Chandler Bing in Friends. He said, I think
you actually have to have all your dreams come true
to realize that they're the wrong dreams. In some cases,
we don't anticipate it and really go about discovering what
(08:44):
our genuine preferences are asia and then create and cultivate
a life of our own preference. In some cases, it's
like what happened to me? You get everything you want,
You look around and you go, You've got to be
kidding me with this nonsense, and you have to burn
it down. Either way, I want everybody listening and anybody
will read my book to just find the courage to
find that authenticity. It does take enormous courage in a
(09:07):
world that wants something from you and wants to dictate
to you what life really is about, and the smallness
that you need to accept in order to line up
with society, to have the courage and the kutzba frankly,
the audacity to say no, I will discover who I am,
and I will do it on purpose.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Oh my goodness, I will discover who I am and
I will do it on purpose. Intentionality is everything, And
I can imagine too you know, having the perfect marriage
and having all these things, and then people thinking that
this is how it's going and they're viewing you on
social media and all the things, and then all of
a sudden you burn everything down. That takes an immense
(09:49):
amount of courage. It's easier said than done. It's easy
to listen to this story and be like, yeah, gro go,
But if you actually think about wow, like ending a
men and swift, you know, switching gears in a new career,
and I imagine people are looking at you like, are
you crazy?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Everybody thought I was insane, Like my best friend called
and asked me if I needed money. My old boss
felt really sorry for me, actually said you look really pathetic,
and I still went, I'm sorry you feel that way,
and kept going.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Because there's an intuitive knowing that certain individuals possess, like yourself,
when you know that you have to continue to go
after what you know you were going after it. Yes, relision,
it's I on the prize.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Exactly, exactly, I on the prize. And also I didn't
care because I knew that what I was walking away
from was false.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yes, alignment and authenticity will always matter more, and there's
a way greater.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Sense of fulfillment. So I know you mentioned a little
bit about your upbringing.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So how did your upbringing in your early career teach
you about the value of overachievement and what would you say?
At what point did you start to feel like it
was really like, Okay, this is a trap.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah, well, I think all of us grow up in
a certain degree of trap. I have been, you know,
very richly blessed. I have very wonderful parents who fully
love me. That is the luckiest blessing in all of life.
I think something that many people overlook. And a great education,
a world class education, and an exceptionally rich upbringing. These
(11:35):
are things I don't scoff at. At the same time,
I grew up in the exact same society you grew
up in, and that society will tell you that you're
good if you achieve a certain amount of grades, accolades, status,
and if you hit certain benchmarks which are the same
no matter which culture you grew up in. You're not
married by the time I don't know, you're twenty seven,
(11:57):
you're missing the boat here. And if you haven't bought
a house by the time you're thirty five, you're missing
about here, And if you haven't found your purpose or
you're calling, then you're clearly a drifter or an aimless
person who doesn't know what to do with their life.
In other words, society has lots of expectations of us.
By a time I'm thirty one, I've done everything chech
(12:17):
check check quote unquote right, and I didn't get what
I wanted. I was unhappy, I was miserable. I felt trapped.
I felt like the confines of this were a complete joke.
And I didn't just get the par results. I got
bad results. An abusive relationship is a nightmare of a life.
It's truly hell on earth. So I started to get
(12:38):
the confidence to defy the societal expectation because I knew
the expectation to be wrong. I got lucky in that sense.
Many people sort of kind of get away with it, right,
like they get boredom. They don't get misery. Boredom many
people can deal with really very hard to deal with.
I got misery. I got lucky. At that point, I
(13:00):
start going, You've got to be kidding me with this nonsense,
and I'm way too good for this, frankly, and that's it.
I started to apply my same bravado, my same excitement,
my same overachieving enthusiasm in the direction of my dreams.
And it took a couple of years. But what I
like to say to people when they're about to transition
their life is it does take courage, but it also
(13:23):
takes enormous faith. And to that end, I can help you.
I can tell you that if you saw the size
of the blessing that was coming, you would go running.
You would let God do his thing, and you would
understand that he really does have your back and just go.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
I love that so much.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
And how would you even say you find strength and
navigating the naysayers? Because I can just relate to you
in so many ways, and it's difficult sometimes when you're
in a transitional period in space, sometimes that noise feels
like it's a little too loud, and so it can
(13:59):
easily feel discouraging where people are You're already trying to
figure out the direction that you're going, yeah, and it's
a scary change, and then you have people that are
questioning you along the way. How did you find strength
in keeping your eye on the prize in moments like that?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
There are two ways. The first is to understand what
faith is. Faith is certainty beyond reason. When you start
to make it about reason, you are in fact rejecting faith.
So certainty beyond reason is the most important thing. And
this is a cultivated practice. I am lucky. I am
a person of faith, so it's easier for me. But
(14:42):
even in those moments when my faith was tested, I'm
Lieutenant Dan this. Of course, you remember the movie Forrest Gump. Yes,
in the movie Forrest Gump, there's a big storm, and
instead of freaking out, Lieutenant Dan goes up to the
mask and starts yelling. You call this a storm. That
is ultimate faith, That is making peace with the universe.
(15:03):
That is ultimate faith. The second thing I want to
say is, and this might bump some people out who
are in the transition, it's that you will actually have
to lose some people. I'm sorry, but it's true. On
the climb up, there can be absolutely no non cheerleaders.
The Great Oprah herself said this, and it took me
a while to listen to her, but she was right,
(15:25):
Which is, if there is even a hint of suppression,
of insulting or of jealousy, you must have the discipline
to say thank you very much. Your company is not
good for me right now. We are going only on
one direction, and that direction is up cheerleaders only. And
that's pretty much it. That doesn't mean sick of fans,
(15:47):
it doesn't mean people who will say yes to everything
you do. It just means in general, people who are like,
I believe in you, and I'm ready to support you
in any way I can. That's just how it is.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
That was very, very revelatory for me.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I feel like that's exactly where I'm at in my
life where I had that revelation recently and I was like, honestly,
cheerleaders only. I have no time in my life for
any sort of nonsense, doubt or anything. I have to
keep my eye the prize. So hearing you say that,
it was just so much confirmation. So in your book Guilded,
(16:27):
you described that the gilded cage, right which obviously many
high achievers we do tend to live in it. Can
you know, can you actually break down that metaphor? Ye,
what that looks like from the inside.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Here's what it looks like. It looks like you started
to pursue things you want, the husband you want, the
nice things you want, the house, you want the promotions. Unfortunately,
they turn into their own cage because you have to
maintain them, and because every time you crack a next level,
it requires the next level. Has that ever happened to you?
Of course it has. I've worked with so many entrepreneurs.
(17:03):
They crack seven figures. Now let's go to eight eight figures?
What next? What's the next creative project? In that sense,
one of the most hilarious things I've ever seen was
Mindy Kaling's show called All My Problems Solved Forever, which
was one episode in which she got engaged. It was
hilarious because obviously she meant that all your problems being
(17:25):
solved forever by this one thing actually will create an
entire new set of setle that you desire. And so
you have to start understanding that the external pursuit is
never ending. It is its own cage. And that's why,
in the metaphor my book, the golden cage is actually open.
It's open because you are the one who could break
yourself free. And you could break yourself free by tuning
(17:46):
instead of to the external chase, to the internal chase,
the internal, the knowing of self, the development of faith,
the cultivation of true resilience and mindset. They are never
ending and they will never disappoint you. They will set
you free. That's where we want to turn.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Oh my gosh, that wow, that actually makes so much sense.
You know, me, being a woman of faith myself, I
totally resonate with that, and I understand that so well.
Why do you think that high performers who seemingly have
it all, why do you think that they struggle with
fulfillment more than most people?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Because we get rewarded for it more than most people.
Because we achieve more than most people. You achieve more
than most people. People are going to reward you disproportionately.
If you're a person of extreme beauty, you will find
accolades for your beauty very very young. That means you
will become truly possessed by the need to maintain that beauty.
This becomes your own cage. This is why it becomes
(18:45):
so much harder than to lose the beauty, to maintain
the beauty, and to lose inevitably with age as we
all do. The beauty exactly the same with the attainment
of any other form of external power like money. The
number one thing that I hear from wealth managers? Is
that really, really rich people are terrified of losing the money.
This is hilarious to me, absolutely hilarious. Instead of focusing
(19:09):
on enjoying the prosperity, expanding the prosperity, living well with
the prosperity, no, no, no, let's defend it, let's freak
out about it. Let's worry about it again, because your
ego has become tied to it. This is not good.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Wow. Wow, your ego has become tied to it.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Okay, So what would you say are some surprising signs
that someone might be living in a gilded cage even
if they are successful on paper?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Well, the most I think surprising signs are the feelings.
The feelings that come with this are not exhaustion and
sobbing and depression. They're actually much much more subtle. Aimlessness, boredom,
numbing seven hours on Instagram, shopaholism, any form of relentless,
(20:06):
aimless fidgeting, essentially is the biggest sign that you're there,
you're screwed. Wow.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Wow, Okay, that is definitely food for thought. I'm sure
many of us listening can definitely resonate with that.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Wow, this is just well.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
I always tell people like you, You're gonna be very
likely to ignore that and think that's nothing. And I
was going to be the first person to say, that's
not what life's supposed to feel like. You're supposed to
have a really, really good time. You're supposed to have
fun around here. There's no time for scrolling. This is awesome.
You don't actually need the hits. If you do, then
there's something there. And you would do very well to
(20:46):
inquire your mind and to sit with it and to
understand what's there so that you can crack through that
upper limit that's keeping you in this trap.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Frankly, wow, I love that. Okay, So along those lines,
let's talk about burnout.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, and how do we pretty much redefine our success.
So you've coached Olympi you know, Olympic athletes.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Fortune five hundred executives.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
How do these high performing clients typically describe burnout for them?
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Well, yeah, so I told you before that in my case,
I got lucky, which is trauma. Trauma and misery are burnout.
Burnout is the same thing. It's extreme exhaustion. It's not
regular endlessness. It's I can't do this anymore, I can't
function anymore. If somebody is there, they're extraordinarily lucky because
you can't ignore it. You just can't. An athlete who
(21:42):
has wiped out cannot function. They have to actually turn
into it. An executive who first of all has just
been slapped with divorce papers and who's lost twenty points
on the market for the company is definitely going to
have a come to Jesus moment in that case. I
always say these are the easiest people for coaching because
(22:02):
they know they cannot not do this. However, if you
have somebody who just doesn't understand why their results are
not improving, and why they're not happy with really big successes,
and why it's never enough, and what's going on with
my team, that's something to look at too. And that
is a form of burnout, but it's preemptive. You're catching
(22:25):
it just a little before you fall off the cliff.
This is ideal. This is ideal because you are now
being proactive about your own life, rather than waiting for
life to do what it did to me, which is
just knock you off to the point where you absolutely
need the help. You can start to engage with the
subtle signs of burnout before burnout actually happens.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Wow, So what would you say your.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Advice is to help them begin to shift that perspective,
because does it? I'm sure the advice is tailored to
that person's specific niche, or would you say that inevitably
it's all principally the same.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
It's all principally the same. There are no exceptions to
the universationial list, and I'd love to meet the exception
to the universe one day, when I do meet Gandhi,
That'll be so total amazed. But for now, most people
are pretty much the same. Early signs of burnout can
be very subtle at first, but catching them early is
really crucial, and I want to give everybody sort of
a roadmap of what to do here. And by the way,
(23:29):
my book is essentially a twelve step program. I was
going to call it like Alcoholics anonymous, workaholics anonymous, but
my husband came up with gilded and I thought that
was much better. My new husband, who is, by the way,
the most delicious person who ever lived, I love that.
The first thing to start watching out for is what
I said, which is emotional or mental fatigue. They are
very subtle. Tiredness is subtle. Anxiety many times is just subtle.
(23:53):
It's just like this weird restlessness, like a hum all
the time. Right, So, if you are to find yourself
sighing a little too much, not really interested in doing
a lot, and numbing with alcohol and pills, of course
is the biggest one, but numbing in all other forms,
shopping and scrolling, those are behaviors that I would start
(24:15):
to really pay attention to, And so is cynicism. Just
being one of those people who is kind of a buzzkill.
You and I obviously are not tolerating buzzkills. But if
you find yourself on the cideber you are a buzkill,
you may want to take a look at the fact
that you're a little more irritable than usual. And then
here comes the first step. It's after you notice this.
(24:35):
The first step is to admit that you have a problem.
Just like an alcoholics anonymous. If you've ever spoken to
a person who suffers from addiction, they usually say the
same thing, which is, I got this, I have this
under control. I can quit whenever I want. Right, Well,
guess what overachievers are the same? I got this, It's fine,
I have it under control. So the first step is
(24:56):
I don't have this under control, and this is very
uncomfortab for me. That's the first thing is this is uncomfortable.
Acknowledge the symptoms. Acknowledge the subtle sign. Acknowledge the physical symptoms.
The second thing is to do something about it. And
here's what you need to do. Fess up. The second
thing I say to do in the book is stop lying.
(25:18):
Name the emotions, name the withdrawal, name the symptoms, and
number three, avoid the compulsion to work harder to resolve it.
This will allow you to really basically follow my book
and the guidance all the way out of this. But
this one is really really important because what will happen
(25:41):
to overachievers is they'll automatically say, all right, I'll solve it.
I'll work harder, and I'll solve it. Right. Well, It's
like I always say, Asha, if you start suspecting that
sex isn't working out for you, don't do it harder.
Exactly the same with burnout. If you start suspecting that
(26:01):
your hustle is not paying off, don't try harder. It's
not going to work. You will have to withdraw, you
will have to go within, you will have to seek help,
and you will have to follow the either inner journey
that I prescribe in the book, or go on an
inner journey with a talented coach or in some cases
a very talented therapist.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Wow. I love that. Yeah, I definitely can say that.
It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I honestly have this other revelation where I realized I
was like, you know what, I really don't feel like
God wants me to feel like I'm going so hard
of trying to pursue, per supersue, because no opportunity that
I feel like God is giving me and that's ordained,
it's going to feel dislike.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yes, that's rights. Tell my clients for are people of faith,
if you really are a faith why are you working
so hard?
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Wow? Trust you?
Speaker 1 (27:01):
What are you doing here?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Okay wow, okay, yeah that was no to self.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
That was not to selll for me.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Okay, so let's I love telling. I love being a
Jewish person telling a Christian that you're smoating God. That
was that was real fast right there?
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Okay, So about perfectionism for so many driven women, yes, no, obviously,
you know myself included. It is oftentimes it is something
that I guess we do tend to wear as a
badge of honor. So how can we begin to kind
of like loosen the grip on that, Because, like you
(27:44):
said earlier, we do get rewarded for the things that
we achieve, So how do we become okay with kind
of just it feels uncomfortable because it feels like you're
just coasting.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
So how do you the balance?
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Only a perfectionist would say such things, my dear friend,
because the opposite of perfectionism is not laziness. It is
not complete, It's not black or white. The antithesis of
perfectionism is to do things very well, but with chill,
you're still going to do them. So the first thing
(28:20):
I want to break free from is teach people the
difference between or to help you break free from perfectionism
is to help people understand the difference between perfectionism and
high standards. High standards are fantastic. Everybody loves them, that
you should have them. I'm a big fan, obviously, I
coach over achievers, but high standards don't hurt perfectionism does.
(28:41):
High standards are the expectancy of the best, doing our best,
allowing ourselves to want the best, and to achieve the
best without hurting ourselves, without breaking yourself over the fact
that your somersault was not a complete ten out of
ten this time. That is the beginning of understanding real achievement,
(29:03):
sustainable achievement, consistency, which is sometimes eighty percent, sometimes twenty percent.
My best varies versus perfectionism, which will blow itself up
if you hold yourself to one hundred percent all day,
every day, I promise you, because the mind cannot tolerate
that degree of punishment, you will run out of steam.
The second thing is the lengthier thing that you can
(29:25):
start to apply to perfectionism, which is self compassion. What
if you assumed that the Bible and the Old Testament
for that matter, were correct, and that we are all
perfectly made in His image, then what exactly are you
perfecting around here? Why wouldn't you work instead on compassion,
on forgiveness. God has never condemned you. Why are you
(29:48):
condemning yourself? Why not instead celebrate yourself? Speak to yourself lovingly,
with compassion, with kindness. When you start that practice cultivating
in addition to your height standards, I'm telling you you're
going to become unstoppable because you're going to become one
of those freak shows like me who's actually nice to themselves.
(30:09):
You did good today, Karen, well done, keep it up.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Oh my gosh, I love that. Like I don't know
why this makes you want to cry like this, I
feel like.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Here's always the opposite most people like you and I
usually do until the age of I don't know thirty,
we beat ourselves up all the time. You screwed up.
I can't believe you're not there yet. Why aren't you
making six hundred grand a month whatever nonsense that is
instead of just doing exact opposite, which I've learned to
do over the last decade. You're doing great, sweetie. As
(30:42):
my real mom Chris Jenner likes to say, you're doing great.
You've got this. You know how much more firepower you
have with with that kind of wind in your back.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
And it's so funny too, because there's such an interesting dichotomy,
how one on one hand, and you know, to put
it in context with myself, I'm like, you know what,
cheerleaders only, but I have to be the cheerleader for
myself too.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
You would be lying if you weren't. You cannot be incongruent.
The universe only hears integrity, it only hears honesty. So
if you're mean to yourself but really nice to other people,
then you're lying.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Mmm, that's true, that's true.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Wow, you're honestly You're incredible, You are absolutely incredible. How
can leaders, especially women in male dominated industries, unlearned the
belief that their worth is tied to their constant output
or their performance.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Well, the reversal of imposter syndrome, which is of course
extraordinarily common, it is to know your leverage. Many people
are just focused on the gap between where they are
and where they think they should be. In the happens
to women all the time. In order to survive in
male dominated industries and have the audacity to thrive, we're
constantly unlike them, by the way, looking at how I
(32:10):
can improve myself to prove myself. But and for those
who are not watching, I just made a goofy face
to make the point that this is a very goofy
way to think. Instead, we should think about our gains.
We should think about our leverage. We should think about
what we do have already that already makes us more
than worthy, ten million times more worthy. You know, there's
(32:31):
a very very famous stat that women will not apply
for a job unless they're at least eighty percent or
feel eighty percent qualified, or that they meet eighty percent
of the qualifications for the job. Men will apply if
they meet ten percent of the qualifications. So I like
to say, you're already ahead of the game. You are
already ahead of the game. Sit down, write a list
(32:52):
of why you are qualified and what makes you really
outstanding instead of observing the gap that you think or
receive you have, and watch what happens. You will start
to truly operate from the truth of your worth. The
truth of your worth.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
I love that. Wow.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
So as far as breaking these things down into practical
wisdom for everyone that's listening, what would you say, are
some dilly practices or mindset you know, shifts that you
recommend to women who are starting to question you.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Know, they're always on hustle. I gotta do this, I
got to do that.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
There are two very practical things I can give you,
and know they're not meditate and sleep more, which is
nonsense advice for people who are in this cycle. The
first is to interrupt your reactivity with pausing. In other words,
learn to think slowly and learn to respond slowly. And
(33:58):
one of my main hacs is in the book called
the pause principle, and it's meeting a challenge basically with
the question is that true? Or meeting a challenge with
the question is the problem the problem? Or is my
reaction going to be a bigger problem? In conversation with someone,
when a conversation is triggering you, you can also buy
time and sort through your thoughts by saying, hmm, that's
(34:20):
an interesting point. I'm going to think about that for
a second. In other words, slowing down, because all of
us are very fast paced and very reactive slightly on
the aggressive side, is to learn how to just slow
it down. Either slow down the thought with the first
two questions I offered here, and the second is to
slow down a conversation by buying yourself some time artificially
(34:42):
with a question like I'm going to pray on this
for a sec and I'll get right back to you.
This has been an incredible hack for me because instead
of taking the bait and flipping out and just continuing
to run my nervous system to the ground, I just
try to take a bait, take a moment The second,
very very practical piece of advice I have for you
is read more.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Now.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Read More is not like meditate more. Mediticians quite hard
to do. It's a difficult pursuit, I would say, much
much harder than working out or sleeping well. Instead, what
you can do that's easy and super duper fun is
read books. The best way to do it is get
the audible and play yourself like a podcast, one chapter
(35:26):
per day. There are a couple of things that will happen.
Number one, you'll relax yourself. It's very soothing to listen
to a great book like Gilded like You Are a
Badass by Jensen Chera, which is hilarious, like Martha Beck's
The Way of Integrity. There are masterpieces. They are funny,
they are well written. Even mine is pretty good. And
just one chapter a day is soothing. Number two. The
(35:49):
second thing that's wonderful is it literally rewires your brain.
It starts by osmosis to affect the way you behave,
the way you build, and everything you do. Their four
turns into a completely different, much better outcome. And number three,
it legit makes you smarter. It compounds. Imagine if you
listen to just one chapter a day of a book,
(36:11):
which means that you would finish a book in about
two months easily, by the way, probably actually one month
if you're only doing weekdays, right, sorry, And then you
do ten books twelve books a year, allowing for some breaks.
Do you know how much smarter you would be in
five years than anyone around you? Absolutely? Anyone around you.
That's it. And that's an inner expansion that does not
(36:34):
require hustle or effort anymore, and it gives you the
biggest advantage in life.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Wow. I love that.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Wow. Read, Slow down and read, go down and read.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Okay, for all of you that are listening and watching this,
So what is one small courageous decision that someone can
make you know this week to begin stepping.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Out of the gilded case?
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Oh yeah, I know what to say here. It's to
say no more. This ends now. The most courageous thing
I hope I give you with this book is not
the action plan of what to do next. It's the
decision I made when I reached my own breaking point.
And it wasn't actually an understanding of what to do
next station. It was just this end. Now. That's the
(37:22):
most courageous thing you can do. The most courageous thing
that you can do is say this is not good
enough for me anymore. I'm done here, and we don't
know what we're going to do next, but this is
not good enough for me. And that is a profound
statement to the universe.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Wow, Wow, this is not good enough for me.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Both done, We're done here.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
We're done, We're done here.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
And So for all the listeners that feel like they
are torn between ambition and authenticity, how.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Can they start building a more aligned life.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Oh, if you really want to be the most successful
person in the whole world, don't chase ambition. Chase authenticity.
Authenticity is going to make you very, very rich. Most
people are. That's my main argument in Gilded is you're
chasing the ambition. You're chasing the status, you're chasing the money,
you're chasing all of the certain and earthly things. These
are incorrect because they are repelling other people and they
(38:18):
are exhausting you. They will never work. Just let you
just letting you know. Very finite. Competitive energy is combustible,
but the energy of true faith, true belief and self,
true love of self, true understanding of self, the ability
to unleash your true gifts onto the world. That's really attractive.
That's the one that's going to succeed and succeed fast. Wow.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Competitive energy is combustible.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
I absolutely love that.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
You know, in a lot of your work you often
speak about a kind of fulfillment. And do you see
a spiritual element in breaking free from the performance trapped?
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Absolutely? The spiritual element is the understanding, the ultimate understanding
that we are not flesh and blood, and we are
not mortals who are here for material gain. We are
spirit embodied. We are bigger than this. It is important
to remember that and to live through that because the
(39:23):
gains there are love and compassion and warmth and connection
to others. These are bigger things than you're ever going
to get from Prada. And believe me, I've tried to
find happiness at Prada. It's a really wonderful thing to
start to find union with other human beings and spirit
(39:43):
exaltation in this lifetime because they will never, like I
said before, they will never disappoint you.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
I love that. And how do you personally stay grounded
and aligned?
Speaker 2 (39:55):
You know, especially in this world where we're constantly trying
to get rewards for our external success.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
I catch myself, and I do exactly what I told
you all to do. I slow down, giving myself grace,
give myself peace, giving myself time, and I read a
lot might say in practice.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Wow, I'm actually kind of curious, as a random Cidebard,
how did you initially niche down into c suite coaching?
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Because I'm not even out. I'm actually fairly new to
this term of coaching.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Well, superstar coaching, let's call it. But I mean literally,
that's not it's not the exact description of my audience.
There are young people who are never nowhere near this,
since we were just so exceptional in their in their talent.
They're intensely focused. And it was very easy for me
because it's authentic to me. The best clients you'll ever
have as a former version of yourself, that is exactly
(40:54):
who I was. They are who I was. I am
a high falutint ultra overachiever, and it took me a
while to recognize that. Asha. I used to think of
myself as a golden retriever. Everybody's gonna like me, and
I'm appropriate for everyone, But it's not true. Those of
us who are intensely focused and uh, perhaps a little
(41:15):
more I don't know, status leaning in our previous life
are going to appeal to those who are Now that's it.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Wow, I love that.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
It's so funny you use the word high solute in yeah,
because there was someone that I dated before that literally
used to call me that. I'm like, wait, I have
not heard that word in a while. Okay, So now
let's talk about the book a little bit more. So,
what would you say was the most challenging chapter of
Gilded to write?
Speaker 3 (41:44):
And why was that?
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Well, it's because it's the longest, and it was the
most detailed, and it's the biggest question for people. So
I really wanted to be thorough. This book is half
as long and twice as good. My husband is a journalist.
He always says, make it half as long and twice
as good. So I really wanted it to bite sized
and really powerful. But there is one chapter that's very
long and took a very long time to write, and
that's chapter seven. It's about finding your purpose. Most people
(42:09):
are truly seeking for their life's purpose. They really really
wish to know that they are in their zone of
genius and that they are doing what they are meant
to do around here. And I think. First of all,
most people teach this incorrectly or in a way that
is very hard for people to understand and receive. And
number two, I want it to be thorough enough to
(42:29):
really give people solid glimpse of what it is versus
what it is not. In other words, it's not just
inaccurately taught, it's inaccurately described. So it took a long
time to write that one. It's full of exercises unlike
the other chapters, but it was worth it because everybody
seems to really like that chapter.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
We honestly, I feel like it's genuinely a part of
the human experience is why to figure out why are
we here?
Speaker 1 (42:58):
It's not just part of it, it's the most important
part of the human experience. Without it, you will live
an unfulfilled life.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Yeah, And how do you hope that Guilded impacts the
next generation of leaders, especially women?
Speaker 1 (43:12):
The most important thing I hope they get from reading
Guilded is the desire to not only live a fulfilling life,
but to live a fulfilling life so that they can
be good. The most important thing we can help new
generations be is good. The only thing that will help
us as a humanity as a species is goodness allowing.
Our goodness is dependent upon people with big hearts and
(43:35):
big minds to become as big as possible. And that's
really what this book is about. If you want to
feel good, you should be good, And if you want
to learn how to be good, you should read Guilded.
And that's what I would really love to impart to
younger people.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
And so if readers were to walk away from you know,
with just one truth from the book, what do you
want it to be?
Speaker 1 (44:01):
If you want to feel good, be good?
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Do you want to feel good? Be good?
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Okay, so really quickly just shooting out these questions. What
is one mantra that you live by?
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Easy on yourself for doing way better than you think.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
You're doing? Good?
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Sweetie? I love you're doing good, sweetie? Like my mom
Chris Jennersons. What is one book that changed your life?
The Big Leads by Gay Hendrix?
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Ooh, okay, what is your favorite way to reset after
a stressful week?
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Date with my husband Ryan?
Speaker 3 (44:31):
And what does success look like for you now?
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Ryan?
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Well that I mean, honestly, I have learned so much
in here. I mean This really really resonated with me
so deeply. I'm sure that it has helped so many
of the listeners here that I've tuned in to listen
to this episode. Karen, you are a rock star and
I really really love this conversation. And honestly make sure
(44:58):
that you guys pick up guilded.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
All of the information for Karen's book will be in
the show notes down below, along with all of her
information of how to get in touch with her and
follow her on her socials.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Karen, thank you so much for joining us on the
show today.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Thank you my friend. God bless you, and I wish
you continued success.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Thank you so much.
You want the husband, you want the nice things, you
want the house, you want, the promotions. Unfortunately, we have
to maintain them. And because every time you crack a
next level, it requires the next level. And so you
have to start understanding that the external pursuit is never ending.
It is its own cage.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Heaybabe, it's Nasha, Christina. This is Quality Queen Control. What
is happening?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Everyone, Welcome Karen to Quality Queen Control. Thank you so
much for joining us.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Thank you so much for having me. It's been worth
the waight already.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yes, we definitely had a bit of a interesting start,
very delayed technical difficulties, but nonetheless we are here. So
your background is actually very remarkable. Doing my research on
you from Israeli defense.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
You know, forces to C suite like coach.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I want to know what personal experiences of yours shaped
your approach around leadership and what ultimately led to your
fulfillment in that way.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I'm so happy that you started with this question, Asha,
because no one, I mean literally only one person has
asked me about my experience and the IDEF, and it
gives me an opportunity to say that I believe that
everything I learned about leadership. I learned in the army.
I learned humility, and I learned service to something bigger
than myself. And those are truly the two biggest things
that you can learn as a leader. It's not about you,
(01:35):
It's about something bigger than you, and it is an
honor to serve. It is a privilege to be in
that position, not an entitlement, and that has truly informed
my mindset and my understanding of not only leadership, but
even my work as a coach. This is not about me,
and this is about service to something bigger than myself,
(01:55):
and it is an honor and a privilege to get
to walk beside you on your journey.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I love that approach because it's so funny.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I feel like right now where we're at in the
social climate is people are realizing the difference between like
selfish content and also offering value, and oftentimes people tend
to view leadership sometimes like a dictatorship, as opposed to
actually serving what it's really ultimately about. So, was there
a defining moment where you would say that you realize
(02:28):
that traditional success wasn't necessarily enough, right, it was actually
time to break out of the gilded page.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Nice plug there, sister, a new book, Gilded. I want
to say two things. The first is yes, there was
a big breakthrough moment for me. And number two I
lived that breakthrough moment again and again and again. I'll
start by the breakthrough moment that led to my practice
and led to Gilded. I am a classic overachiever, like
many of your listeners. What I mean by classicalver achiever
(02:59):
is super intense, obsessive type a a student, go get
him type personality. We are born this way. Any freak
show out there who is like this knows this. We
don't need to be told to do stuff. We go
out and we do it and we give ten thousand percent. Unfortunately,
(03:19):
that produced a very relentless pursuit of ambition that went
out of control. By the time I was in my
very early thirties. I had to achieve the absolute best.
I had to have the C suite position. I had
to have the tall husband. This was very important to me.
I have to have the the low one hundred and
twenty pounds weight class and esthetic control. I'm five foot five,
(03:46):
so one hundred and twenty pounds is quite low. Just
letting you know out there and so I do this
for a very aggressive period of my life. At least
fifteen years of my life were dedicated to this hustle,
to this climb. And then it produces in me what
it produces in all other of achievers, not only relentless, obsessive,
anxious pursuit, but also lying the facade, not dictatorship, what
(04:09):
you said in leadership, but lying to maintain that appearance,
subsuming my kindness and my lovingness and my warmth in
order to maintain that position, telling people nonsense on Instagram
about how cool and awesome my life was in order
to maintain that position of awesomeness. And I realized very
(04:32):
quickly that this was a gilded cage. I realized it because,
first and foremost, while I was living in a gorgeous
house and had a CCPE position, I liked neither of them.
The house was in Zurich, which is a terrible and
boring city. The marriage was a complete cham I was
in an abusive relationship, and while the job was pretty good,
I was at the head of the marketing team of
(04:52):
a luxury brand sensational, very devil worse product. It was
also very devil worse product. Which, let me remind you
what's kind of a nightmare and definitely not living my
soul's purpose here on earth, right, like just exhausting myself,
burning the candle that burned both ends, and kind of
behaving in an aggressive social climbing way, and at the
(05:14):
end of the day going home to someone I legit
could not stand. This is a gilded cage. This is
a cage that is very shiny and very pretty from
the outside, but is actually fake gold. No you tell me,
do you prefer real gold or fake gold?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Real gold, real gold all the way.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Real gold, all the way. So one day I thought
I can't do this anymore. I'm done with this nonsense illusion,
and I burned it all to the ground, which was
super grave of me. And today I help people do
this again and again, which brings me to the part
where I talk to you about how I rejected this
now on the fly, listen in the coaching industry, the
podcasting industry, a lot of it's an entertainment industry, sitch right.
(05:54):
In other words, people are lying to you all the time,
all day every day. I just saw somebody just talk
about I don't know, there's six hundred thousand dollars a month,
and I was sitting there going, I feel like that's
not accurate, not because I have never seen it and
people are not sensationally successful. It just makes no sense
to be in that stance constantly and to talk about
(06:15):
self promotion constantly, rather than to be in what we
talked about in the initial phase of this talk, which
is service to something bigger than yourself. And it is
an honor to be here. Not look at me, look
how awesome I am. You should be like me to
be here, which is a completely different stance. This is it,
this is my mindset. Now, this is my religion. Now
(06:37):
we're here.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
There are just so many gems with everything that you
just said.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Actually, I do understand that culture that you're speaking of,
where you see the certain individuals they post online.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
And something I think it's a gift.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
That maybe like you and I have and other individual's
possess that same gift. But something about it just feels
intuitively like I don't think that that's the case.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I don't buy it, Yeah, absolutely don't.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
And so it's just it's funny, how you know, great
minds really genuinely do think alike. Now, speaking of the
Gilded Cage, I mean, this is so perfect and on
brand for me being in my early thirties and just
navigating through life. A lot of the things that I
thought that I wanted things are manifesting for me in
(07:32):
a completely different way than I entirely imagine. And so
what I thought was this perfect thing or said thing,
I'm realizing is nothing of the sort. And so navigating
through those challenges and whatever, you know, life is throwing
at me, I'm learning, like wow, authenticity one speaks for itself,
(07:53):
and that you being true to yourself and showcasing that
is one of the best things that you can do,
and true leadership people will follow you when you are
genuinely confident. At the end, the facade is always going
to fall down. So I want to say even kudos
to you for burning that down and building something authentic
(08:16):
to you. I honestly hats off to.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
You, and I really really admire.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
That, so thank you. I couldn't live a lie any longer.
I just wanted to underline this. So there's a quote
that opens my book that I truly love and it
breaks my heart at the same time. It's by Matthew Perry,
who played Chandler Bing in Friends. He said, I think
you actually have to have all your dreams come true
to realize that they're the wrong dreams. In some cases,
we don't anticipate it and really go about discovering what
(08:44):
our genuine preferences are asia and then create and cultivate
a life of our own preference. In some cases, it's
like what happened to me? You get everything you want,
You look around and you go, You've got to be
kidding me with this nonsense, and you have to burn
it down. Either way, I want everybody listening and anybody
will read my book to just find the courage to
find that authenticity. It does take enormous courage in a
(09:07):
world that wants something from you and wants to dictate
to you what life really is about, and the smallness
that you need to accept in order to line up
with society, to have the courage and the kutzba frankly,
the audacity to say no, I will discover who I am,
and I will do it on purpose.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Oh my goodness, I will discover who I am and
I will do it on purpose. Intentionality is everything, And
I can imagine too you know, having the perfect marriage
and having all these things, and then people thinking that
this is how it's going and they're viewing you on
social media and all the things, and then all of
a sudden you burn everything down. That takes an immense
(09:49):
amount of courage. It's easier said than done. It's easy
to listen to this story and be like, yeah, gro go,
But if you actually think about wow, like ending a
men and swift, you know, switching gears in a new career,
and I imagine people are looking at you like, are
you crazy?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Everybody thought I was insane, Like my best friend called
and asked me if I needed money. My old boss
felt really sorry for me, actually said you look really pathetic,
and I still went, I'm sorry you feel that way,
and kept going.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Because there's an intuitive knowing that certain individuals possess, like yourself,
when you know that you have to continue to go
after what you know you were going after it. Yes, relision,
it's I on the prize.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Exactly, exactly, I on the prize. And also I didn't
care because I knew that what I was walking away
from was false.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yes, alignment and authenticity will always matter more, and there's
a way greater.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Sense of fulfillment. So I know you mentioned a little
bit about your upbringing.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So how did your upbringing in your early career teach
you about the value of overachievement and what would you say?
At what point did you start to feel like it
was really like, Okay, this is a trap.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah, well, I think all of us grow up in
a certain degree of trap. I have been, you know,
very richly blessed. I have very wonderful parents who fully
love me. That is the luckiest blessing in all of life.
I think something that many people overlook. And a great education,
a world class education, and an exceptionally rich upbringing. These
(11:35):
are things I don't scoff at. At the same time,
I grew up in the exact same society you grew
up in, and that society will tell you that you're
good if you achieve a certain amount of grades, accolades, status,
and if you hit certain benchmarks which are the same
no matter which culture you grew up in. You're not
married by the time I don't know, you're twenty seven,
(11:57):
you're missing the boat here. And if you haven't bought
a house by the time you're thirty five, you're missing
about here, And if you haven't found your purpose or
you're calling, then you're clearly a drifter or an aimless
person who doesn't know what to do with their life.
In other words, society has lots of expectations of us.
By a time I'm thirty one, I've done everything chech
(12:17):
check check quote unquote right, and I didn't get what
I wanted. I was unhappy, I was miserable. I felt trapped.
I felt like the confines of this were a complete joke.
And I didn't just get the par results. I got
bad results. An abusive relationship is a nightmare of a life.
It's truly hell on earth. So I started to get
(12:38):
the confidence to defy the societal expectation because I knew
the expectation to be wrong. I got lucky in that sense.
Many people sort of kind of get away with it, right,
like they get boredom. They don't get misery. Boredom many
people can deal with really very hard to deal with.
I got misery. I got lucky. At that point, I
(13:00):
start going, You've got to be kidding me with this nonsense,
and I'm way too good for this, frankly, and that's it.
I started to apply my same bravado, my same excitement,
my same overachieving enthusiasm in the direction of my dreams.
And it took a couple of years. But what I
like to say to people when they're about to transition
their life is it does take courage, but it also
(13:23):
takes enormous faith. And to that end, I can help you.
I can tell you that if you saw the size
of the blessing that was coming, you would go running.
You would let God do his thing, and you would
understand that he really does have your back and just go.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
I love that so much.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
And how would you even say you find strength and
navigating the naysayers? Because I can just relate to you
in so many ways, and it's difficult sometimes when you're
in a transitional period in space, sometimes that noise feels
like it's a little too loud, and so it can
(13:59):
easily feel discouraging where people are You're already trying to
figure out the direction that you're going, yeah, and it's
a scary change, and then you have people that are
questioning you along the way. How did you find strength
in keeping your eye on the prize in moments like that?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
There are two ways. The first is to understand what
faith is. Faith is certainty beyond reason. When you start
to make it about reason, you are in fact rejecting faith.
So certainty beyond reason is the most important thing. And
this is a cultivated practice. I am lucky. I am
a person of faith, so it's easier for me. But
(14:42):
even in those moments when my faith was tested, I'm
Lieutenant Dan this. Of course, you remember the movie Forrest Gump. Yes,
in the movie Forrest Gump, there's a big storm, and
instead of freaking out, Lieutenant Dan goes up to the
mask and starts yelling. You call this a storm. That
is ultimate faith, That is making peace with the universe.
(15:03):
That is ultimate faith. The second thing I want to
say is, and this might bump some people out who
are in the transition, it's that you will actually have
to lose some people. I'm sorry, but it's true. On
the climb up, there can be absolutely no non cheerleaders.
The Great Oprah herself said this, and it took me
a while to listen to her, but she was right,
(15:25):
Which is, if there is even a hint of suppression,
of insulting or of jealousy, you must have the discipline
to say thank you very much. Your company is not
good for me right now. We are going only on
one direction, and that direction is up cheerleaders only. And
that's pretty much it. That doesn't mean sick of fans,
(15:47):
it doesn't mean people who will say yes to everything
you do. It just means in general, people who are like,
I believe in you, and I'm ready to support you
in any way I can. That's just how it is.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
That was very, very revelatory for me.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I feel like that's exactly where I'm at in my
life where I had that revelation recently and I was like, honestly,
cheerleaders only. I have no time in my life for
any sort of nonsense, doubt or anything. I have to
keep my eye the prize. So hearing you say that,
it was just so much confirmation. So in your book Guilded,
(16:27):
you described that the gilded cage, right which obviously many
high achievers we do tend to live in it. Can
you know, can you actually break down that metaphor? Ye,
what that looks like from the inside.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Here's what it looks like. It looks like you started
to pursue things you want, the husband you want, the
nice things you want, the house, you want the promotions. Unfortunately,
they turn into their own cage because you have to
maintain them, and because every time you crack a next level,
it requires the next level. Has that ever happened to you?
Of course it has. I've worked with so many entrepreneurs.
(17:03):
They crack seven figures. Now let's go to eight eight figures?
What next? What's the next creative project? In that sense,
one of the most hilarious things I've ever seen was
Mindy Kaling's show called All My Problems Solved Forever, which
was one episode in which she got engaged. It was
hilarious because obviously she meant that all your problems being
(17:25):
solved forever by this one thing actually will create an
entire new set of setle that you desire. And so
you have to start understanding that the external pursuit is
never ending. It is its own cage. And that's why,
in the metaphor my book, the golden cage is actually open.
It's open because you are the one who could break
yourself free. And you could break yourself free by tuning
(17:46):
instead of to the external chase, to the internal chase,
the internal, the knowing of self, the development of faith,
the cultivation of true resilience and mindset. They are never
ending and they will never disappoint you. They will set
you free. That's where we want to turn.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Oh my gosh, that wow, that actually makes so much sense.
You know, me, being a woman of faith myself, I
totally resonate with that, and I understand that so well.
Why do you think that high performers who seemingly have
it all, why do you think that they struggle with
fulfillment more than most people?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Because we get rewarded for it more than most people.
Because we achieve more than most people. You achieve more
than most people. People are going to reward you disproportionately.
If you're a person of extreme beauty, you will find
accolades for your beauty very very young. That means you
will become truly possessed by the need to maintain that beauty.
This becomes your own cage. This is why it becomes
(18:45):
so much harder than to lose the beauty, to maintain
the beauty, and to lose inevitably with age as we
all do. The beauty exactly the same with the attainment
of any other form of external power like money. The
number one thing that I hear from wealth managers? Is
that really, really rich people are terrified of losing the money.
This is hilarious to me, absolutely hilarious. Instead of focusing
(19:09):
on enjoying the prosperity, expanding the prosperity, living well with
the prosperity, no, no, no, let's defend it, let's freak
out about it. Let's worry about it again, because your
ego has become tied to it. This is not good.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Wow. Wow, your ego has become tied to it.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Okay, So what would you say are some surprising signs
that someone might be living in a gilded cage even
if they are successful on paper?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Well, the most I think surprising signs are the feelings.
The feelings that come with this are not exhaustion and
sobbing and depression. They're actually much much more subtle. Aimlessness, boredom,
numbing seven hours on Instagram, shopaholism, any form of relentless,
(20:06):
aimless fidgeting, essentially is the biggest sign that you're there,
you're screwed. Wow.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Wow, Okay, that is definitely food for thought. I'm sure
many of us listening can definitely resonate with that.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Wow, this is just well.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
I always tell people like you, You're gonna be very
likely to ignore that and think that's nothing. And I
was going to be the first person to say, that's
not what life's supposed to feel like. You're supposed to
have a really, really good time. You're supposed to have
fun around here. There's no time for scrolling. This is awesome.
You don't actually need the hits. If you do, then
there's something there. And you would do very well to
(20:46):
inquire your mind and to sit with it and to
understand what's there so that you can crack through that
upper limit that's keeping you in this trap.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Frankly, wow, I love that. Okay, So along those lines,
let's talk about burnout.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, and how do we pretty much redefine our success.
So you've coached Olympi you know, Olympic athletes.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Fortune five hundred executives.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
How do these high performing clients typically describe burnout for them?
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Well, yeah, so I told you before that in my case,
I got lucky, which is trauma. Trauma and misery are burnout.
Burnout is the same thing. It's extreme exhaustion. It's not
regular endlessness. It's I can't do this anymore, I can't
function anymore. If somebody is there, they're extraordinarily lucky because
you can't ignore it. You just can't. An athlete who
(21:42):
has wiped out cannot function. They have to actually turn
into it. An executive who first of all has just
been slapped with divorce papers and who's lost twenty points
on the market for the company is definitely going to
have a come to Jesus moment in that case. I
always say these are the easiest people for coaching because
(22:02):
they know they cannot not do this. However, if you
have somebody who just doesn't understand why their results are
not improving, and why they're not happy with really big successes,
and why it's never enough, and what's going on with
my team, that's something to look at too. And that
is a form of burnout, but it's preemptive. You're catching
(22:25):
it just a little before you fall off the cliff.
This is ideal. This is ideal because you are now
being proactive about your own life, rather than waiting for
life to do what it did to me, which is
just knock you off to the point where you absolutely
need the help. You can start to engage with the
subtle signs of burnout before burnout actually happens.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Wow, So what would you say your.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Advice is to help them begin to shift that perspective,
because does it? I'm sure the advice is tailored to
that person's specific niche, or would you say that inevitably
it's all principally the same.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
It's all principally the same. There are no exceptions to
the universationial list, and I'd love to meet the exception
to the universe one day, when I do meet Gandhi,
That'll be so total amazed. But for now, most people
are pretty much the same. Early signs of burnout can
be very subtle at first, but catching them early is
really crucial, and I want to give everybody sort of
a roadmap of what to do here. And by the way,
(23:29):
my book is essentially a twelve step program. I was
going to call it like Alcoholics anonymous, workaholics anonymous, but
my husband came up with gilded and I thought that
was much better. My new husband, who is, by the way,
the most delicious person who ever lived, I love that.
The first thing to start watching out for is what
I said, which is emotional or mental fatigue. They are
very subtle. Tiredness is subtle. Anxiety many times is just subtle.
(23:53):
It's just like this weird restlessness, like a hum all
the time. Right, So, if you are to find yourself
sighing a little too much, not really interested in doing
a lot, and numbing with alcohol and pills, of course
is the biggest one, but numbing in all other forms,
shopping and scrolling, those are behaviors that I would start
(24:15):
to really pay attention to, And so is cynicism. Just
being one of those people who is kind of a buzzkill.
You and I obviously are not tolerating buzzkills. But if
you find yourself on the cideber you are a buzkill,
you may want to take a look at the fact
that you're a little more irritable than usual. And then
here comes the first step. It's after you notice this.
(24:35):
The first step is to admit that you have a problem.
Just like an alcoholics anonymous. If you've ever spoken to
a person who suffers from addiction, they usually say the
same thing, which is, I got this, I have this
under control. I can quit whenever I want. Right, Well,
guess what overachievers are the same? I got this, It's fine,
I have it under control. So the first step is
(24:56):
I don't have this under control, and this is very
uncomfortab for me. That's the first thing is this is uncomfortable.
Acknowledge the symptoms. Acknowledge the subtle sign. Acknowledge the physical symptoms.
The second thing is to do something about it. And
here's what you need to do. Fess up. The second
thing I say to do in the book is stop lying.
(25:18):
Name the emotions, name the withdrawal, name the symptoms, and
number three, avoid the compulsion to work harder to resolve it.
This will allow you to really basically follow my book
and the guidance all the way out of this. But
this one is really really important because what will happen
(25:41):
to overachievers is they'll automatically say, all right, I'll solve it.
I'll work harder, and I'll solve it. Right. Well, It's
like I always say, Asha, if you start suspecting that
sex isn't working out for you, don't do it harder.
Exactly the same with burnout. If you start suspecting that
(26:01):
your hustle is not paying off, don't try harder. It's
not going to work. You will have to withdraw, you
will have to go within, you will have to seek help,
and you will have to follow the either inner journey
that I prescribe in the book, or go on an
inner journey with a talented coach or in some cases
a very talented therapist.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Wow. I love that. Yeah, I definitely can say that.
It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I honestly have this other revelation where I realized I
was like, you know what, I really don't feel like
God wants me to feel like I'm going so hard
of trying to pursue, per supersue, because no opportunity that
I feel like God is giving me and that's ordained,
it's going to feel dislike.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yes, that's rights. Tell my clients for are people of faith,
if you really are a faith why are you working
so hard?
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Wow? Trust you?
Speaker 1 (27:01):
What are you doing here?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Okay wow, okay, yeah that was no to self.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
That was not to selll for me.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Okay, so let's I love telling. I love being a
Jewish person telling a Christian that you're smoating God. That
was that was real fast right there?
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Okay, So about perfectionism for so many driven women, yes, no, obviously,
you know myself included. It is oftentimes it is something
that I guess we do tend to wear as a
badge of honor. So how can we begin to kind
of like loosen the grip on that, Because, like you
(27:44):
said earlier, we do get rewarded for the things that
we achieve, So how do we become okay with kind
of just it feels uncomfortable because it feels like you're
just coasting.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
So how do you the balance?
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Only a perfectionist would say such things, my dear friend,
because the opposite of perfectionism is not laziness. It is
not complete, It's not black or white. The antithesis of
perfectionism is to do things very well, but with chill,
you're still going to do them. So the first thing
(28:20):
I want to break free from is teach people the
difference between or to help you break free from perfectionism
is to help people understand the difference between perfectionism and
high standards. High standards are fantastic. Everybody loves them, that
you should have them. I'm a big fan, obviously, I
coach over achievers, but high standards don't hurt perfectionism does.
(28:41):
High standards are the expectancy of the best, doing our best,
allowing ourselves to want the best, and to achieve the
best without hurting ourselves, without breaking yourself over the fact
that your somersault was not a complete ten out of
ten this time. That is the beginning of understanding real achievement,
(29:03):
sustainable achievement, consistency, which is sometimes eighty percent, sometimes twenty percent.
My best varies versus perfectionism, which will blow itself up
if you hold yourself to one hundred percent all day,
every day, I promise you, because the mind cannot tolerate
that degree of punishment, you will run out of steam.
The second thing is the lengthier thing that you can
(29:25):
start to apply to perfectionism, which is self compassion. What
if you assumed that the Bible and the Old Testament
for that matter, were correct, and that we are all
perfectly made in His image, then what exactly are you
perfecting around here? Why wouldn't you work instead on compassion,
on forgiveness. God has never condemned you. Why are you
(29:48):
condemning yourself? Why not instead celebrate yourself? Speak to yourself lovingly,
with compassion, with kindness. When you start that practice cultivating
in addition to your height standards, I'm telling you you're
going to become unstoppable because you're going to become one
of those freak shows like me who's actually nice to themselves.
(30:09):
You did good today, Karen, well done, keep it up.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Oh my gosh, I love that. Like I don't know
why this makes you want to cry like this, I
feel like.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Here's always the opposite most people like you and I
usually do until the age of I don't know thirty,
we beat ourselves up all the time. You screwed up.
I can't believe you're not there yet. Why aren't you
making six hundred grand a month whatever nonsense that is
instead of just doing exact opposite, which I've learned to
do over the last decade. You're doing great, sweetie. As
(30:42):
my real mom Chris Jenner likes to say, you're doing great.
You've got this. You know how much more firepower you
have with with that kind of wind in your back.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
And it's so funny too, because there's such an interesting dichotomy,
how one on one hand, and you know, to put
it in context with myself, I'm like, you know what,
cheerleaders only, but I have to be the cheerleader for
myself too.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
You would be lying if you weren't. You cannot be incongruent.
The universe only hears integrity, it only hears honesty. So
if you're mean to yourself but really nice to other people,
then you're lying.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Mmm, that's true, that's true.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Wow, you're honestly You're incredible, You are absolutely incredible. How
can leaders, especially women in male dominated industries, unlearned the
belief that their worth is tied to their constant output
or their performance.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Well, the reversal of imposter syndrome, which is of course
extraordinarily common, it is to know your leverage. Many people
are just focused on the gap between where they are
and where they think they should be. In the happens
to women all the time. In order to survive in
male dominated industries and have the audacity to thrive, we're
constantly unlike them, by the way, looking at how I
(32:10):
can improve myself to prove myself. But and for those
who are not watching, I just made a goofy face
to make the point that this is a very goofy
way to think. Instead, we should think about our gains.
We should think about our leverage. We should think about
what we do have already that already makes us more
than worthy, ten million times more worthy. You know, there's
(32:31):
a very very famous stat that women will not apply
for a job unless they're at least eighty percent or
feel eighty percent qualified, or that they meet eighty percent
of the qualifications for the job. Men will apply if
they meet ten percent of the qualifications. So I like
to say, you're already ahead of the game. You are
already ahead of the game. Sit down, write a list
(32:52):
of why you are qualified and what makes you really
outstanding instead of observing the gap that you think or
receive you have, and watch what happens. You will start
to truly operate from the truth of your worth. The
truth of your worth.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
I love that. Wow.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
So as far as breaking these things down into practical
wisdom for everyone that's listening, what would you say, are
some dilly practices or mindset you know, shifts that you
recommend to women who are starting to question you.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Know, they're always on hustle. I gotta do this, I
got to do that.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
There are two very practical things I can give you,
and know they're not meditate and sleep more, which is
nonsense advice for people who are in this cycle. The
first is to interrupt your reactivity with pausing. In other words,
learn to think slowly and learn to respond slowly. And
(33:58):
one of my main hacs is in the book called
the pause principle, and it's meeting a challenge basically with
the question is that true? Or meeting a challenge with
the question is the problem the problem? Or is my
reaction going to be a bigger problem? In conversation with someone,
when a conversation is triggering you, you can also buy
time and sort through your thoughts by saying, hmm, that's
(34:20):
an interesting point. I'm going to think about that for
a second. In other words, slowing down, because all of
us are very fast paced and very reactive slightly on
the aggressive side, is to learn how to just slow
it down. Either slow down the thought with the first
two questions I offered here, and the second is to
slow down a conversation by buying yourself some time artificially
(34:42):
with a question like I'm going to pray on this
for a sec and I'll get right back to you.
This has been an incredible hack for me because instead
of taking the bait and flipping out and just continuing
to run my nervous system to the ground, I just
try to take a bait, take a moment The second,
very very practical piece of advice I have for you
is read more.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Now.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Read More is not like meditate more. Mediticians quite hard
to do. It's a difficult pursuit, I would say, much
much harder than working out or sleeping well. Instead, what
you can do that's easy and super duper fun is
read books. The best way to do it is get
the audible and play yourself like a podcast, one chapter
(35:26):
per day. There are a couple of things that will happen.
Number one, you'll relax yourself. It's very soothing to listen
to a great book like Gilded like You Are a
Badass by Jensen Chera, which is hilarious, like Martha Beck's
The Way of Integrity. There are masterpieces. They are funny,
they are well written. Even mine is pretty good. And
just one chapter a day is soothing. Number two. The
(35:49):
second thing that's wonderful is it literally rewires your brain.
It starts by osmosis to affect the way you behave,
the way you build, and everything you do. Their four
turns into a completely different, much better outcome. And number three,
it legit makes you smarter. It compounds. Imagine if you
listen to just one chapter a day of a book,
(36:11):
which means that you would finish a book in about
two months easily, by the way, probably actually one month
if you're only doing weekdays, right, sorry, And then you
do ten books twelve books a year, allowing for some breaks.
Do you know how much smarter you would be in
five years than anyone around you? Absolutely? Anyone around you.
That's it. And that's an inner expansion that does not
(36:34):
require hustle or effort anymore, and it gives you the
biggest advantage in life.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Wow. I love that.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Wow. Read, Slow down and read, go down and read.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Okay, for all of you that are listening and watching this,
So what is one small courageous decision that someone can
make you know this week to begin stepping.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Out of the gilded case?
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Oh yeah, I know what to say here. It's to
say no more. This ends now. The most courageous thing
I hope I give you with this book is not
the action plan of what to do next. It's the
decision I made when I reached my own breaking point.
And it wasn't actually an understanding of what to do
next station. It was just this end. Now. That's the
(37:22):
most courageous thing you can do. The most courageous thing
that you can do is say this is not good
enough for me anymore. I'm done here, and we don't
know what we're going to do next, but this is
not good enough for me. And that is a profound
statement to the universe.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Wow, Wow, this is not good enough for me.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Both done, We're done here.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
We're done, We're done here.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
And So for all the listeners that feel like they
are torn between ambition and authenticity, how.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Can they start building a more aligned life.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Oh, if you really want to be the most successful
person in the whole world, don't chase ambition. Chase authenticity.
Authenticity is going to make you very, very rich. Most
people are. That's my main argument in Gilded is you're
chasing the ambition. You're chasing the status, you're chasing the money,
you're chasing all of the certain and earthly things. These
are incorrect because they are repelling other people and they
(38:18):
are exhausting you. They will never work. Just let you
just letting you know. Very finite. Competitive energy is combustible,
but the energy of true faith, true belief and self,
true love of self, true understanding of self, the ability
to unleash your true gifts onto the world. That's really attractive.
That's the one that's going to succeed and succeed fast. Wow.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Competitive energy is combustible.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
I absolutely love that.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
You know, in a lot of your work you often
speak about a kind of fulfillment. And do you see
a spiritual element in breaking free from the performance trapped?
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Absolutely? The spiritual element is the understanding, the ultimate understanding
that we are not flesh and blood, and we are
not mortals who are here for material gain. We are
spirit embodied. We are bigger than this. It is important
to remember that and to live through that because the
(39:23):
gains there are love and compassion and warmth and connection
to others. These are bigger things than you're ever going
to get from Prada. And believe me, I've tried to
find happiness at Prada. It's a really wonderful thing to
start to find union with other human beings and spirit
(39:43):
exaltation in this lifetime because they will never, like I
said before, they will never disappoint you.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
I love that. And how do you personally stay grounded
and aligned?
Speaker 2 (39:55):
You know, especially in this world where we're constantly trying
to get rewards for our external success.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
I catch myself, and I do exactly what I told
you all to do. I slow down, giving myself grace,
give myself peace, giving myself time, and I read a
lot might say in practice.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Wow, I'm actually kind of curious, as a random Cidebard,
how did you initially niche down into c suite coaching?
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Because I'm not even out. I'm actually fairly new to
this term of coaching.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Well, superstar coaching, let's call it. But I mean literally,
that's not it's not the exact description of my audience.
There are young people who are never nowhere near this,
since we were just so exceptional in their in their talent.
They're intensely focused. And it was very easy for me
because it's authentic to me. The best clients you'll ever
have as a former version of yourself, that is exactly
(40:54):
who I was. They are who I was. I am
a high falutint ultra overachiever, and it took me a
while to recognize that. Asha. I used to think of
myself as a golden retriever. Everybody's gonna like me, and
I'm appropriate for everyone, But it's not true. Those of
us who are intensely focused and uh, perhaps a little
(41:15):
more I don't know, status leaning in our previous life
are going to appeal to those who are Now that's it.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Wow, I love that.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
It's so funny you use the word high solute in yeah,
because there was someone that I dated before that literally
used to call me that. I'm like, wait, I have
not heard that word in a while. Okay, So now
let's talk about the book a little bit more. So,
what would you say was the most challenging chapter of
Gilded to write?
Speaker 3 (41:44):
And why was that?
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Well, it's because it's the longest, and it was the
most detailed, and it's the biggest question for people. So
I really wanted to be thorough. This book is half
as long and twice as good. My husband is a journalist.
He always says, make it half as long and twice
as good. So I really wanted it to bite sized
and really powerful. But there is one chapter that's very
long and took a very long time to write, and
that's chapter seven. It's about finding your purpose. Most people
(42:09):
are truly seeking for their life's purpose. They really really
wish to know that they are in their zone of
genius and that they are doing what they are meant
to do around here. And I think. First of all,
most people teach this incorrectly or in a way that
is very hard for people to understand and receive. And
number two, I want it to be thorough enough to
(42:29):
really give people solid glimpse of what it is versus
what it is not. In other words, it's not just
inaccurately taught, it's inaccurately described. So it took a long
time to write that one. It's full of exercises unlike
the other chapters, but it was worth it because everybody
seems to really like that chapter.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
We honestly, I feel like it's genuinely a part of
the human experience is why to figure out why are
we here?
Speaker 1 (42:58):
It's not just part of it, it's the most important
part of the human experience. Without it, you will live
an unfulfilled life.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Yeah, And how do you hope that Guilded impacts the
next generation of leaders, especially women?
Speaker 1 (43:12):
The most important thing I hope they get from reading
Guilded is the desire to not only live a fulfilling life,
but to live a fulfilling life so that they can
be good. The most important thing we can help new
generations be is good. The only thing that will help
us as a humanity as a species is goodness allowing.
Our goodness is dependent upon people with big hearts and
(43:35):
big minds to become as big as possible. And that's
really what this book is about. If you want to
feel good, you should be good, And if you want
to learn how to be good, you should read Guilded.
And that's what I would really love to impart to
younger people.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
And so if readers were to walk away from you know,
with just one truth from the book, what do you
want it to be?
Speaker 1 (44:01):
If you want to feel good, be good?
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Do you want to feel good? Be good?
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Okay, so really quickly just shooting out these questions. What
is one mantra that you live by?
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Easy on yourself for doing way better than you think.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
You're doing? Good?
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Sweetie? I love you're doing good, sweetie? Like my mom
Chris Jennersons. What is one book that changed your life?
The Big Leads by Gay Hendrix?
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Ooh, okay, what is your favorite way to reset after
a stressful week?
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Date with my husband Ryan?
Speaker 3 (44:31):
And what does success look like for you now?
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Ryan?
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Well that I mean, honestly, I have learned so much
in here. I mean This really really resonated with me
so deeply. I'm sure that it has helped so many
of the listeners here that I've tuned in to listen
to this episode. Karen, you are a rock star and
I really really love this conversation. And honestly make sure
(44:58):
that you guys pick up guilded.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
All of the information for Karen's book will be in
the show notes down below, along with all of her
information of how to get in touch with her and
follow her on her socials.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Karen, thank you so much for joining us on the
show today.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Thank you my friend. God bless you, and I wish
you continued success.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Thank you so much.
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