June 12, 2025 • 60 mins
Art at Outsiders and Others with Redrum the Sticker Artist
“Outsiders and Others is a non-profit art Society with a focus on bringing non-traditional artists to the forefront. Their artists identify as outsider, folk, self-taught, visionary, intuitive, and artists with disabilities.” Outsiders and Others defines outsider art as the work of those who have no formal training, create art for themselves to record their life experiences or document historical events (not necessarily for an audience), and use non-traditional materials (like found objects). In May, Mental Health Awareness month, Outsiders and Others presented Brain Child featuring artworks from Caro Embling, REDRUM, and Gabriel Ostapchuk. We had the opportunity to speak with Yuri Ajars. Artistic Director and Curator, about this exhibit and the gallery. We also chatted with Redrum, the sticker artist (@redrum_ays_crew). Redrum describes the different neurodiverse and disability issues he copes with daily but also how important art has been to his process specifically in inspiration around images and topic. You can find Outsiders and Others In Vancouver and at
https://www.outsidersandothers.com/
Music by Shari Ulrich
“Outsiders and Others is a non-profit art Society with a focus on bringing non-traditional artists to the forefront. Their artists identify as outsider, folk, self-taught, visionary, intuitive, and artists with disabilities.” Outsiders and Others defines outsider art as the work of those who have no formal training, create art for themselves to record their life experiences or document historical events (not necessarily for an audience), and use non-traditional materials (like found objects). In May, Mental Health Awareness month, Outsiders and Others presented Brain Child featuring artworks from Caro Embling, REDRUM, and Gabriel Ostapchuk. We had the opportunity to speak with Yuri Ajars. Artistic Director and Curator, about this exhibit and the gallery. We also chatted with Redrum, the sticker artist (@redrum_ays_crew). Redrum describes the different neurodiverse and disability issues he copes with daily but also how important art has been to his process specifically in inspiration around images and topic. You can find Outsiders and Others In Vancouver and at
https://www.outsidersandothers.com/
Music by Shari Ulrich
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
You're listening to Vancouver co Op Radio cfr OH one
hundred point five FM. We're coming to you from the
unseated traditional territories of the Squamish, muscream and slighway tooth
nations around Vancouver, BC. I'm your host, Bernadine Fox, and
this is this show that dares to change how we
think about mental health. Welcome to Rethreading Madness.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
We have ever been fir No, what the hell I'm
gonna do when I can't see the fine away under over.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
You're listening to Rethreading Madness on Vancouver co Op Radio
cfr OH one hundred point five FM. I'm Bernardine Fox
and right now on the phone, I have Carl. You
know what, Carl, I didn't get your last name. What's
your last name? Dacres Thede here with the bee. I
only know you as Carl. The sticker Guy's kind of bad,
(01:08):
but not really because what you do is make stickers.
So can you tell us a little bit about who
you are and what you do?
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Well? I go by the artist's name Red Rum, and
I just I make stickers and I put them up
and I just, yeah, express myself that way.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
And what's the content of your stickers.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
It varies from images of myself as a child, to
feelings that I'm having at the time, statements I want
to make collaboration images with other artists. I just really
want to add layers of texture to the city, and
stickers are a nice way.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Would you say your stickers are political in any capacity?
Speaker 4 (01:54):
I wouldn't have thought so, but they mine aren't. Well,
that's a really good question, Bernie, because I try not
to be political, but I believe in some things that
I guess become political. So I've made some transgendered rights,
gay rights, First Nations Right stickers, and I guess that
(02:18):
would be considered political, but I'm I'm just trying to
say everyone deserves love and respect.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Yeah, it's odd that that would be political. I get it. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I often tell people that getting up every day as
a woman and continuing on with the day whatever comes,
is a political act. I do it every morning because
you have to deal with these things on a daily basis,
and it's you know, you're talking about the same thing.
How long have you been making stickers?
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Oh, let's see, twenty five years, but only really hard
for the last like five years, So.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
You kind of are that's burgeoning out there that I'm
seeing more and more.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Well it's actually quite old, but it's more burgeoning because
of the sticker community online. I believe, like I was
making stickers and putting them up for the longest time,
and I used to show my stuff on Flicker, like
I don't even know if that's a websit anymore, and
that's where I used to post my stickers and wheat pastes.
And then it just got to be too difficult carrying
(03:29):
around stencils and spray paint and wheat paste buckets and
all sorts of this equipment. So then I just finally
started making these little quick stickers to throw up, and
I just made little homemade stickers, and then I upgraded
to a thermal printer, and then after a thermal printer,
I just got a home printer, and yeah, I haven't
(03:50):
turned back. I don't like to get my stickers made
from outside sources. I mean, I don't have a problem
with that. They do an amazing job. I just I
like the actual act of making my sticker. So it's fun.
You have to cut it out, you have to got
a layer, you gotta it's just a whole process is
fun for me.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
And where do you put your stickers up?
Speaker 4 (04:14):
I try to put them up on places where they're
going to have some steam power. So I put them
up on the backs of signs, electrical boxes, whole posts.
I don't put them on anyone's property or the side
of stores. I try not to put them on public
trands and stuff, because they just get taken down immediately.
(04:35):
You want the sticker to stay up and people to
see it, right, You want to have a little bit
of life.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yeah, absolutely, But we're not here to talk about stickers,
although I will make sure people know where to find
your stickers by the end of this interview. We're here
to talk about the fact that you are somebody who
lives with seizures. Can you tell us about what that
means in your life? Sort of sort of a general
(05:01):
week is, what do seizures mean to your week?
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Ah, seizures mean I am unreliable and I don't I
don't know. I just you have no idea what's going
to happen, and because of that, you just feel very
unreliable and very I can't even think of the word
(05:27):
right now. I've had quite a few seizures this week.
So my word recall is a little off right, justly
just feeling empty and it feels like you're disappearing.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Can you tell us the mechanics of what actually happens
in your brain when you have a seizure.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I'm not really sure, but from what I understand, my
seizures take place in a part of my head that
we're like all your negative emotions and stuff to take place.
So when I do have a seizure and I come
to I feel like and being hit with waves of
just negative feelings about myself, just the waves and waves
(06:09):
of this self doubts of guilt, just you're not just
anything you can think about yourself and just yeah, and
I have to try and logically get myself out of
that space because I'm just like, that's not true. Your
brain's just telling me things that aren't real. Don't fall
for it. And yeah, it's a it's a it's a
lot of work. And then there's the physical part of
(06:32):
it too.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I'm going to get to that in a minute. But
do you always know that you're having a seizure?
Speaker 5 (06:37):
No?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
And so if you don't always know you're having a seizure,
and your experience of having that seizure is negative stuff
coming forward to you out of your own brain. That
could feel real, that could feel like like like you
need that's something you need to deal with in order
(07:00):
to be a better person or and I'm want to
give it. Yeah. And so an example I can sort
of pull forward is if you have a panic attack.
A panic attack is kind of the same thing. It's
completely irrational thoughts of you know that you conspiral you
down and you know, if you try, that's it. If
(07:20):
you try. And yeah, if you try and actually, you know,
engage with the panic attack and make sense out of
it and try and figure it out or rationalize it
or you know, work it through or process that you
are in cat and yeah, you're intensifying it and.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Engaging it more.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yes, And so to deal with a panic attack, you
literally have to get up and walk away from it.
And so, but at least you know you're having a
panic attack. If you don't know you're having a seizure,
you're just left with feeling crappy about yourself.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Yeah, and you just come to and it's you know,
only because of the post seizure victims that it's happened, right,
I mean, I do have an Apple Watch now that
tells me like when my heart rates spikes and it
recorded and stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
But before that, I just had to guess, well, yeah,
And I think that's probably something people misunderstand about seizures
is that they assume, because maybe they've seen somebody have
a seizure, that it's quite dramatic, right, or it can
be just nothing. You could just zone out, I suppose,
but these are the really dramatic ones where you drop
(08:27):
to the ground and you convulse and all of that stuff.
People don't realize that your brain isn't necessarily recording that
or registering that, So when you come out of a seizure,
you're you're not recalling like you said that you had
any one.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
And in the city like Vancouver, I've had a seizure
laid on the sidewalk and nothing's happened. People did walk by.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Well I understand, like it's not that it's right, but
I've seen people just walk by other people just laying
on the ground from other problems, mental health, addiction issues,
So it's not like anything special. It's it's terrible for
a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, terrible. If you have uh diabetes, and you're having
a low blood sugar reaction, and could you know, have
serious harm because and.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Die Because there's lots of reasons.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
So are your seizures such that you would die from them?
Speaker 4 (09:28):
I'm not sure. I hope not. I'm not sure. I've
had a lot of head is sheet head trauma, so
I'm trying to figure out that's part of the reason.
I've got a lot of pressure in my head. I
have headaches all the time. But I'm I'm a multi
symptom medical person. I don't think I've epilepsia. I have
fibromyalgia and chronic post to my extress in the room,
(09:53):
and I've got a bunch of other issues physically. And yeah,
it's it's a painful, painful life. But art and family
are what get you through it.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
How does the seizures impact on your mental health other
than being bombarded with a lot of negative stuff?
Speaker 4 (10:17):
But they leave me feeling inadequate, They leave me feeling
like I'm not contributing enough in my partner's life, in
my son's life, in my community. I just it just
makes you feeling really alienated. It's like you're alone all
the time. And because it could happen in any moment.
(10:39):
You never know when you're just going to become that.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Does having the seizures and not knowing when it's going
to happen tend to exasperate your PTSD. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
I'm just at a high level of all the time
that I just I'm not sure. I have to ask
my wife. I just right now at this point in
my life, I thought I was calm for a while,
but it's been, like I said, the last couple of
weeks have been really uh caesar stressed out. So but
I'm hoping that uh, I just got some new mens
and I'm hoping that it'll help level things out for
(11:18):
a while. That would be nice, because Caesars are not fun.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
No, I'm met sure to add an art talk where
you were talking about your stickers. It was at the
Outsider and Others Gallery here in Vancouver, BC, and one
of your pieces of art included all the names of
all the medication you take basically on a daily basis.
(11:44):
Can you can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Yeah, I'm actually very lucky to have a family doctor
who's been with me. Well she's not my kindly doctor,
but I have my doctor who has been with me
for so years on this journey, and I wouldn't be
here without her. But it's a lot of pills I take.
(12:09):
And thank Goodness or God or whoever you want to
thank that we live in Canada, because I would definitely
be deeply in debt with all the medications I need.
I take a wide variety of pills and just to
try and get through the day and try and hold
off a seizure, keep one at day, and just to
(12:33):
try and keep my mental health at a good place too,
because I also suffer from ADHD pretty severely. So if
I don't take my ADHD meds, then it's also that
they are shot. It's hard to focus. It's like, yeah,
it's all over the place. Seizures and ADHD don't go
(12:54):
there together too well.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
And I would imagine fibromiologia as well, because they know
that fiber mile and chronic I have chronic pataste are
a central nervous system problem.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
That's what I also have, is central nervous and de sensitivity.
That was the thing I couldn't remember. That's the other
condition I have, which means once my body healed, I'm
still feeling the residual like pain effects. Even though it's
the muscles of heels, I'm still feeling like they're torn, right. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Yeah, So your central nervous system doesn't know I call
it not knowing how to shut it off. Like once
it's activated, the shut off vowel is broken, and you
just end up cycling through it and through it and
through and through it as the real Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
And then once you the pain, I think the pain
induces the seizures, then the seizures induces pain, and then
it's just like a NonStop handster.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
And also if your muscles are contracting, that's a part
of pain cycle.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Tare.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Yeah, I'm on a lot of muscle pain pill. Sorry
to say on so many kinds. It's just, uh, there's
so much here going on. There's a lot of pills,
a lot of pain. But I'm just trying to really
focus on things.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Right, And you're doing with depression and anxiety as well, correct, Yeah?
And is that do you think that that's caused from
the fibro which is impacted your central nervous system the ADHD,
which those are those are things that happen along with
ADHD or do you think those are a side effect
(14:34):
from the seizure or it's all day above.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yeah, from a young age mental health neglected, and then
to and two young teenage years and into adulthood, and
then it's only recently last would you say, fifteen twenty
years that mental health has become an issue, like it's
been acknowledged. Yeah, but before that it was just pretty
(15:00):
much there's something wrong with you. And then that was it.
They would say.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
And were you having seizures as a child as well,
or is this something that came on as an adult.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
These only came on as an adult, I believe. But
I don't have a very good recollection as my childhood
because I lived in foster care and then I was
a ward of the government, and at eighteen, I just was.
Speaker 6 (15:25):
That's it, right.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
And as we discussed, you don't always you're not always
aware that you've had a seizures. It is something that
is not necessarily in your cognitive awareness. Even if you
just had it, you stand up and go on with
your life and not realizing you just had a seizure.
So yes, unless somebody is recording.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
It, like yeah, and I never noticed there was one.
There's waiting in here, Like there's times where I just
thought I was just sitting there and just staring at
something for a while, not realizing that that was a seizure,
and then I would just kind of snap out of it,
and I was just like, oh, I thought I was
just like you only beating at something. But there's more
thans where you can't move, and like you you're like,
(16:06):
you feel paralyzed, but your brain wants to move, but
your body won't move right. It's it's a lot. It's
a lot. Like I'm not looking for sympathy, but it's
a lot.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
No, it is a lot. What you've described is a
life that is impacted on so many levels by so
many things that have to do with mental health but
also have to do with your physical health. And I
think you're doing a tremendous job navigating the whole thing,
and your wife as well. Kudos to her.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
I would be lost without her.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Mm hmm. So where can people find your art?
Speaker 4 (16:42):
It's right now showing at the Outsiders Gallery, and you
could find it on red Rum, Underscore Ays, Underscore Crew
on Instagram, and it will also be seen in the
streets of Vancouver.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
And so they should look at electric boxes behind signs
and but not bus stops and where else you mentioned
another play?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Oh, polls. We like doing polls. Myatet Uben newtant He
and I put up a lot of stickers together. It's
good to have a cruise eight.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yes, absolutely, but if I want to buy your art,
they should contact byers and others.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
And yes, also, my wife has made an exty website
I believe, oh cool, connected to my Instagram accounts.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Okay, so they can find that in your Instagram. So
if the if the show is down by the time
somebody hears this at the Outsider and Others gallery in
Vancouver where they could buy your work. They can also
go through your Etsy account, which they can find on
your Instagram page, and.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
They can message me on Instagram and we can always
set up any sort of private deals.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Okay, that's great, and you're you're open to people contacting
here directly totally, Okay, all right, Well thank you. Carl
the sticker guy also called Carl.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Gay ker Am I saying, yes, appreciate.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Oh, you're welcome. We'll talk soon. Okay, day, We'll be
right back.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Oh you have this.
Speaker 7 (18:16):
A lot of people call this rock and roll.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Swings. This is going the let's see with the left hand.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
Yeah, and the right hand fits in with something like this. Yeah,
here we go now.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (18:33):
It's called rock and roll and you can hear all
about it on Rock Talk Discover the hidden but enchanting
side of the music Friday mornings at nine o'clock.
Speaker 5 (18:46):
Oh that isn't enchanting. Nothing is.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
Go ahead, Jess, dance go crazy.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
You're listening to ruthreading Madness on Vancouver co up Radios,
Yes one point five FM. I'm Bernardine Fox, and today
I have Yuria Rice with me. He's the artistic director
and curator for Outsiders and Others, which is an art
gallery here in Vancouver.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
Welcome Uri, hy berdic Dame. It's pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
I'm glad you're here. We have been talking to Carl
and he's an artist that has has had a show.
It has a show now in your gallery and has
artwork that can be bought.
Speaker 6 (19:29):
For sale there.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
I was hoping that you could tell us a little
bit about what Outsiders and Others is.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Oh, my pleasure, Bernie.
Speaker 8 (19:38):
Outsiders and Others is a nonprofit organization that opened in
Vancouver at the very beginning of COVID, actually in June
of twenty one was our first exhibition. We opened a
window gallery on East Hastings in downtown Vancouver, East Hastings
being in the lowest income postal code in our province,
(20:06):
and we were there for about five years, and then
we moved to downtown Vancouver about six months ago because
our building went up for sale. Our organization specifically focuses
on bringing non traditional artists to the forefront. Non traditional
artists primarily being artists who are self taught, artists who
(20:29):
are with lived experience, artists with disabilities, a variety of things,
but primarily artists that most organizations or most galleries aren't
working with, or artists who have never shown before. In
doing that, we do an exhibition every month. Everything we
do is curated. We pay artists exhibition honorariums. We pay
(20:50):
them seventy five percent of everything that sells. We do
lots of mentoring and things of that nature. And I
don't know if I said this, but we do an
exhibition every month, so we always having new exhibition going on.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
And yeah, in a nutshell, that's that's who we are.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So you are it sounds like you are a non
profit gallery.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
That is that is correct.
Speaker 8 (21:15):
We are in an profit and that's why we are
able to you know, pay honorariums and and and give
artists so much of sale prices for artwork because we're
here to you know, help support these artists that deserve
the support just like any other practicing.
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Artists, as well as to.
Speaker 8 (21:34):
Help elevate them and help their work be seen in
a more professional manner.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
And you know, in working with this with a non.
Speaker 8 (21:43):
Traditional community, one of the biggest challenges I think is
always getting people to not focus on labels and focus
on the work. I mean, it also depends on what
we're doing. Uh now, So May is mental health aware
this month, as we all know, and so every May
(22:03):
we do something honoring the month. And typically what we
do is we do a call for artists. But this
year I did something different in that I wanted to
know select three artists that I'd never worked with before,
who make work that is completely different from each other,
that doesn't necessarily focus on mental health, that we're focused.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
On aesthetics and so forth.
Speaker 8 (22:28):
And Carl or his street or tag name is red Rum,
but I'll prefer name is Carl because it's much more personal.
And Carl is that kind of guy. But Carl is
a is a good example of what we do. Is
that Carl's never worked with a gallery before. Carl wouldn't
(22:51):
necessarily see what he does as art. But he's an
incredible artist. And in I mean he's for people who
don't know or you're hearing in the context of this
the interview with Carl, But he is a sticker slapper
or a sticker artist, and he makes all of his
own stickers. He doesn't have them produced, and he has
(23:14):
thousands of designs and he goes out and he creates
these huge mass areas of stickers with a consortium of
sticker artists from around the world called AYS, which stands
for all you see. But in the exhibition here at
the gallery, everything that Carl has in here is only
his own work, only his own sticker work.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
So there's a.
Speaker 8 (23:35):
Combination of pieces that are you know, like panels that
are completely covered with stickers, that have silk screening on them,
and he does embossed.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
Seals on them.
Speaker 8 (23:48):
It's all about pride in an interesting way.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
That's what I love about Carl's work.
Speaker 8 (23:54):
It's about here and it's about now, and almost all
of the images on the stagies are of himself as
a child as well as just text. And there's a
lot of advocacy work too, I mean from a little
experience point of view he has, you know, he makes
stickers about mental health hotlines and things like that and
(24:15):
have a nice day and if you need help, call
this number, and in the mix of everything that he does,
so there's this balance of incredible creativity and advocacy all
of the same time, and that's kind of something.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
That really excites me.
Speaker 8 (24:31):
One of the pieces in the show here is a
soak screen of his face as a child with a frown,
and it says neuro divergent sticker insurgent, and then drawn
all around it in these red and pink dots is
a list of the twenty eight medications that he currently takes.
(24:52):
And when you're presented with that, like one thing I
love about it, it's like, in the context of a gallery,
you're taking information like that, which is aesthetically beautifully presented.
It's important to really say that you know the work
visually first and foremost is the most important thing, but
it's so personal and you're kind of fooled by what
(25:15):
it is because of the aesthetics of it, but when
you take the time and you're actually reading it and
you think for a minute, it's like the vulnerability that
this artist is putting forward is unheard of, and it's
an opportunity for people to, I think, work like this.
It's an opportunity for people to see how difficult it
(25:37):
is for artists of any label, any identity, any experience
to expose themselves in their art. It's not an easy thing,
and so many artists do that. You know, there's another artist,
Carol Embling who's in this show, who does the exact
same type of work, but it looks nothing like Carl's,
but the work is very open and vulnerable. And the
(26:00):
other artist, Gabriel Rather is a mural artist and his
work is not focused that way. It's about large, powerful images,
you know, that have a lot of presence in space.
But all three of these artists identify with lived experience.
They collaboratively and with the gallery take on an exhibition
(26:22):
like this in a way to show the artwork that
they do, but also to stand proud of who they
are as it's a mission based show and that's how
I look at it. It's not just about the artwork,
even though that's the first thing, but it has a mission,
you know, we want to talk about mental health and
we do that through an opening reception. We had a
great artist talk two weeks ago where all three artists
(26:44):
were there completely open, casual discussions. And that's one of
the great things about what you do as well. It's
these opportunities for people to speak openly and honestly without
hesitation and to not be perfect, and we we don't
have enough of those opportunities nowadays, particular, I think, where
we are very sensitive to language and how people say things,
(27:07):
and we're less forgiving about that, and I you know,
for me, I like doing shows like this because it
allows people to you know, mess up and learn, you know,
and it's really important to do that because that's how
we all just kind of, you know, coexist together, just
by learning from each other. And exhibitions like this, I
think are a really great opportunity to do that. And
(27:29):
it's a real privilege to do things like this because
I see how it affects the artists we work with,
as well as.
Speaker 5 (27:35):
The patrons and the community that comes in to see
the shows.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Can you I think everybody who comes to my program
and listens knows now what lived experience is, and of
course there's all kinds of lived experience. When we talk
about it here, it's about lived experience with mental health challenges.
Can you, though, define what an outsider is when it
comes to art?
Speaker 8 (27:59):
So I can't give you a clear definition only because
it's something that is endlessly changing right now, I think,
and that has so much to do with the change
of language in our communities.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
The mental health connection.
Speaker 8 (28:14):
I'll say this to outsider art is it was first
really recognized in the late eighteen seventies in Switzerland. Doctor Prisborne,
if I'm correct, started this doctor who worked in an institution,
an asylum, collected artworks by his patients. And nowadays the
(28:38):
PRIs Worn collection is revered as one of the world's
most significant collections of outsider art. And if you don't
know it, it's worth looking up because you will see
some of the most incredible artworks you've ever seen by
these individuals who were isolated and the same mistreated is
an understatement, and so there's a kind of an origin
(29:02):
of the outsider art discussion comes from, you know, the story.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
Of mental health.
Speaker 8 (29:07):
It throughout time, you know, there's a history of it
in Europe, where it was referred to as art brute
for a long time, or as an air bracketing art madness,
and in the believe it was in the nineteen seventies
somebody in the United States coined the term outsider art,
and then it started being used that way in North America,
(29:28):
that term outside of art. I'm going to say that
the way that we look at it is I primarily
focus on artists that are self taught, taught being artists
who have not gone to art school in any way,
shape or form, and primarily because the experience that artists
have when they go into an art school. I speak
for myself as a formally trained artist. You know, once
(29:50):
you have one conversation, your perspective has changed, right, You
just see things differently, You just learnt something. You have
language that it's good or bad, it's just different. And
artists who haven't had those experiences, their creativity comes from
a different place and it has a different sponsoraneity that
(30:12):
the majority of formally trained artists aren't able to access
or have anymore because they were trained not to be
that way now. And so that's just what interests me
and in the disability discussion that somehow has fallen into
the realm of outside of art. But for me, it's
about artists who use their disability like they have tools.
(30:35):
They have gifts in their toolbox that I don't have.
So many artists are able to hone that tool and use.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
It in a way that nobody else can, and that
is an amazing thing to see accomplished in creativity.
Speaker 8 (30:51):
You know, like there's artists out there that can do
things that nobody else can, and if I have the
opportunity to bring light to that, I'm going to do
it without a question, because there's not enough of that
kind of stuff that's interesting. I do like to think
that we show a lot of artists that you'll just
not see anywhere else. But outsider art for us is
(31:12):
generally working with artists that are self taught. You know,
there's exceptions to that. You know, when we do mission
based shows, it's more open. One are the artists in
our current show is a formerly trained artist. But again
it goes back to the work and the artwork, and
that's most important.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Mission based art.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
Sorry, yeah, that's a term that I just kind of use.
Speaker 8 (31:34):
It's you know, it's when you do a show that
is honoring, you know, mental Health Awareness Month, I'm focusing
on mental health, So it's kind of a mission show.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
It's like, I have a mission.
Speaker 8 (31:44):
Here and show artists with lived experience to have those discussions.
Not to take away from the art again, but it's
just it's a mission. In December, you know, sometimes we
do an International Day of Persons with Disability show.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
I would consider that a mission based show. But at
the same time, Bernardine, I would.
Speaker 8 (32:03):
Say, the majority of the artists that we work with
identify with.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
Some label, do you know what I mean? In their life?
Speaker 8 (32:10):
And I think the more that we how we present
the work and talk about the work and what we
share with the public about the artists becomes less important
because it's the work is the most important thing, you know,
Like in the discussion of to remove from mental health,
I mean art.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
When we're talking about art, you know.
Speaker 8 (32:33):
Where you've gone to school, who you've taught with, who
you've learnt with.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
All of that is nobody cares. Nobody cares. I don't.
They just don't.
Speaker 8 (32:43):
All they care about is what's in front of them
and whether or not they connect to it or not,
and whether or not they want to make a lifetime
commitment of spending money on something that you've made, which
is huge. I don't take selling artists on one thing.
It's such a big deal. But anyway, that's a whole
other discuss.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
But we could talk about Carl's art. That's there. We
talked about it with Carl. But you you have some
pieces there that I find extraordinary just because of the
form that they're in.
Speaker 5 (33:13):
Can you talk about that completely?
Speaker 8 (33:15):
So Carl I mentioned before, he's done some pieces that
are you know, two dimensional framed on a wall, that
are all stickers with silkscreen on them. But at the
same time, we have a twelve cabinet locker that is
completely covered with thousands of his stickers.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
Within that cabinet.
Speaker 8 (33:32):
Each one of those cabinet doors, you can open it
and he has something like a large medication bottle where
he's made a custom label on the front of it
that has says it has.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
No refills and take is needed.
Speaker 8 (33:45):
And you open the bottle and there's fifteen stickers inside
and a button of his. There are packages of one
hundred stickers. There are recycling miniature recycling bins that have
you know, one hundred stickers in them and things of
that nature. He's made, you know, twelve by fourteen inch stickers.
He has a faux spraycand that you take a part
(34:07):
and you open it up and it's stashed with two
hundred stickers and buttons and stuff like. It's just it's
this interesting combination of merchandise and art. And when you
buy a package of his stickers, the whole point is
for you to go out and have some fun and
put them somewhere with joy, in a legal place. And
it's just about joy, I mean, And that really exemplifies
(34:30):
so much of what Carl represents.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
You know, like he's you know, he's a really positive force.
Speaker 8 (34:37):
I think, like I've only worked with him for a
couple of months now, SE's new to my world, but
he's a real positive forces the way he's able to
talk about his work as well as he lives it.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
You know.
Speaker 8 (34:52):
It's like at the opening reception, it was funny because
and this is not a negative, but you know, Carl
left like fifteen minutes early because he has to go stickering,
and it was just what it was. And you know,
it's fine, right, you do what you need to do.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
It's all good.
Speaker 8 (35:06):
He lives it, you know, and that's one of the
things that so many artists that fall into the outside
are realm. Do they live their work right? You know,
They're not going in the studio and painting. They're just
living it, and it's a very different experience. And Carl
is a really good example of that. But after this show,
(35:27):
I mean, we're going to continue.
Speaker 5 (35:28):
To work with Carl for sure. People really like his work.
Speaker 8 (35:32):
His work is sold and I think what he's doing
is great, so we'll always carry his work for sure.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Can you give us an idea or sense of the
shows that you have coming up, not necessarily dates and stuff,
but just to give us an idea of what outsiders
and others completely.
Speaker 8 (35:52):
So the show that we have, the current show is
actually called Brainchild.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
Was the name of the show. They've had a longer title.
It was called Brainchild and an idea or an invention,
which is considered a particular person's creation. That was the
name of this show. That show ends.
Speaker 8 (36:12):
Today, unfortunately, but you can still see Carl's work after
that if you want to come in, and we always
have access to the other artists work too. But our
next show opens in June seventh, and it's a solo
exhibition with an artist named Scotti. Colin Scotty's an artist
that we've worked with for a few years now, an
(36:32):
artists with lived experience as well. Then after that, in August,
Scotty show is a month and a half closed for
a few weeks. And then in August we have a
show with an artist named Sema Shaw who is also
a writer. Seema has a solo show called Missing Pieces
and it's all based on what she would consider a
(36:53):
life of trauma, and she is exploring the idea that
trauma is not something that goes away, it's kind of
something that you have with you forever. It's a it's
a really interesting show. Another artist in September are Arnatson,
who makes huge objects out of sculptural pieces that have
(37:13):
found objects like plane wings.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
And you know, aren't y yeah yeah.
Speaker 8 (37:22):
After that we have a show called The Long Fan
or the Family Long and it's a family of artists
who live on Vancouver Island. November, we have an amazing
show from France. Three self taught sorry, three self taught
artists working and living in France right now. And France
is an important country and the discussion of outsider art,
(37:44):
because France is the number one concentrated place in the
world for recognized outsider art, artists and environments. And then
to end the year out in December, we're doing a
show called Postcards from the Edge, and basically it is
a fundraise for the gallery. But anybody who takes a
four x six postcard, makes a piece of art on it,
(38:06):
puts a stamp, and puts it in the mail. It's
going to go on our wall and every card will
be for sale for twenty dollars and the gallery receives
the proceeds and you can find information about that on
our website. There's a call for artist page on it.
I'll just say it quickly. It's www dot outsiders and
others dot com all spelled out and a low.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Do people pick up the postcards, Well.
Speaker 5 (38:31):
You can just make it yourself.
Speaker 8 (38:32):
I mean We've been getting i mean legitimately in the
last two weeks, I've received cards from Malaysia, Japan, Europe, and.
Speaker 5 (38:40):
The United States. How it happens, how people find out
is amazing, right, But yeah, it's great, and so you
just have to put it in the mail, you know. Okay,
I'm really worried about the card and stuff like it
getting damaged. It's kind of part of the point. You know,
there's a long history of mail art where kind of
embraced that with this.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah, you're right, there is a long history. So really
what you're saying is just because somebody has a mental
health challenge that they live with does not mean that
their art is therapy.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
So I think art therapy is a different discussion.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah, it is, I mean, and that's not what we're
discussing here.
Speaker 5 (39:22):
That's that's all it's not.
Speaker 8 (39:24):
I mean, it's and it's not that I have any
issue with art therapy. But the thing is is that
when you're experiencing therapy, that is not something I think
for the general public to experience.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
It's yours. And of course, from.
Speaker 8 (39:37):
An art therapeutic experience, you know, there's great things that
happen there, but the magic is really about you, and
it is not necessarily you know, created in a way
that's to be shared with everybody, because it's more powerful
to the maker than it is to anybody else.
Speaker 5 (39:54):
You know.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
I do think that there are some people who think
that when art is made by anyone who has a
disability or mental health challenge that it's not really art,
it's just therapy. It's kind of what I was getting at,
and so you are proving that that is in fact
not correct. So people can get a hold of you
through Outsiders and Others on your website is Outsiders and
(40:17):
Others dot com all written.
Speaker 5 (40:19):
Out, Yes it is. And we are on Instagram and
we're on Facebook and we are just at Outsiders and Others. Okay,
we post every day so you always know what we
have going on. On our website. We have calls for artists.
Speaker 8 (40:32):
You can see all of our past exhibitions and things
of that nature, and we're easy to contact.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Right well, thank you Youuri.
Speaker 5 (40:39):
This is the privilege. Thanks for the time.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
It's really You're welcome and we'll be right back, folks.
Speaker 9 (40:45):
Tanna up qui get euons Queen sna Hi, everybody. My
name is Quate Yuon's. I'm a member of the Squamish
Nation and the Yagolanis Klan of the Hyda Nation. You're
listening to co Op Radio cfro O one hundred point
five FM. We live, work play and broadcast from the
traditional ancestral and unseeded territories of the Musk Wiham, Squamish
(41:06):
and Sleave with tooth Nations.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
You're listening to Rethreading Madness on Bancruter co Op Radios
yep R one hundred point five FM. I'm Bernardine Fox
and I am talking with Paul Vincent and Mark Sheehan
from the Crisis Center of BC. Welcome you guys, Thank.
Speaker 10 (41:22):
You, thank you for having us.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Mark.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Can you tell us a little bit about who you
are in terms in relationship to the Crisis Center of
BC and what that is.
Speaker 6 (41:33):
Yeah, absolutely so. I'm currently the program director of our
Community Learning and Engagement department the firm die Head. Yeah,
we have youth programs for youth program for people who
are suicide brieves, and we also have our adults education
and training programs. So we focus mostly on supporting those
people who are have lost them into suicide. We focus
(41:56):
on building up the mental health literacy skills of youth.
But NBC which polity to talk about. And then we
also train organizations, communities and individuals all across the province
and how to do suicide prevention and mental health kind
of support work.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, you have a program called I Believe the Youth Educator.
I'm certainly bastardizing that name. But you have a program
that teaches youth about mental health. Can you tell us
a little bit about where that program came from. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (42:28):
Absolutely, So we used to have a full suite of
wellness programs for the crisis Center that we would provide
free to you know, different communities and things like that.
We've ritten a lot of interest about programs for youth
and we had the staff at the time who were
very much experts in youth mental health. So they created
(42:50):
our first program, which is called Self Care for Mental
Health that's designed for any age youth and we provide
that for free to high schools all over the Lower Mainland.
And then recently the I guess the base knowledge of
youth in general and when it comes to mental health
then it comes to crisis prevention has increased over the
(43:12):
last couple of years just with access to you know,
information and it being more but topicly that's less to
talk about in some ways. So we have recently added
another program called It's Okay Not to Be Okay, which
focuses on kind of older youth in high schools and
goes into a little bit more depth on you know,
how to support your friends in crisis and a little
(43:32):
bit more kind of real and in depth about the
mental health issues that can come up and how to
deal with them. Moving around for a number of years
now and have trained thousands and thousands of youth across
hundreds of different schools in the Lower Mainland, and yeah,
plan to keep it going for as long as it's needed,
which I'd imagine it will be quite a number of years.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
I've noticed that your programs start at grade six. Is
there a reason why you don't do programming for children
in elementary school, well, younger grades anyway, because six is
still elementary here.
Speaker 6 (44:07):
Yeah, there's a couple of other programs in the Vancouver
that covered that age range. And to be honest, when
we were putting this program together, we didn't have the
expertise internally for younger youth and elementary school youth. And
there's a little bit of a difference in how you
talk about crisis and mental health when it comes to
that age, and we just we don't have that knowledge
base within the team, so we focus on the grade
(44:30):
six and up.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Okay, So it's not because there aren't any mental health
issues for children under the age of grade six. Right.
Speaker 6 (44:37):
So no, Unfortunately, quite an unfortunate trend. We are seeing
a mental health crisises are coming up earlier and earlier
for for youth in BC.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
Yeah, so, Paul, welcome. Tell us a little bit about you.
Speaker 10 (44:54):
Well, I'm originally from Newfoundland, so I'm a Newfie. But
I don't have those really wild accents.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
How come would you like leave them behind or did
you just never have them?
Speaker 10 (45:06):
Ask weird questions, but I know it's it's a common question.
I actually worked very hard removing it because I spent
thirty years most of my life in hospitality and I
had to learn how to speak slower and a little
bit better because people really couldn't understand me. So I
actually worked hard to kind of remove it. But I'm
(45:26):
very proud to be a new fee.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Well that's good.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
We should all be proud of where we where we
call home. So tell us about your relationship to the
youth education program that Crisis Center of BC puts on.
Speaker 10 (45:42):
Well, how it originally started. I worked for our community,
the Jeep community in the Lower Mainland, and for three
years we got together and ran a program called jeep
Apalooza over on the Vancouver Atlung where we raise a
quarter of a million dollars for breast cancer. I was
the creator of the website and the master of ceremonies
with my husband for three years. Once I separated myself
(46:05):
from that, it was a couple of years and we
were I decided I needed to do something. I wanted
to get back and give something back. And we were
sitting out just at a local pub with friends and
I just decided I'm going to take a look, and
immediately I found the BC Crisis Center website and it
resonated with me right away that they were looking for
(46:26):
volunteers and there was like adult there were so many
different programs evolved, and I'm very new young at heart,
I resonate very young. I mean, I'm fifty almost fifty five,
but I mentally I'm like eighteen. So I've always been young.
And my personal experiences because I had an attempt at
(46:47):
suicide and growing up, I know from personal experience that
if I had reached and I had the resources when
I was young, I would have been a different person.
So by the time you reach adulthood, a lot of
the damage is already done. So I absolutely said that,
you know, I want to be involved in the youth
programs because I think it's important to reach youth at
(47:08):
an early age.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Hmm, I agree. So you are one of the workshop
educators for I think self care and it's okay not
to be okay.
Speaker 5 (47:24):
Correct.
Speaker 10 (47:25):
I am part of both. I started with originally with
the Self Care Workshop, which I'm still obviously very much involved,
which I love. And yeah, I was honored that because
it was a pilot program this year or that I
was approached and asked to be one of the new
facilitators to get trained and start this new program. And
(47:45):
I love both programs. They both have a special place
on my heart. They're both great, and they both reach
you at a different level and you can see the
reactions you know, at both. Like Mark said, you know,
the Self Care Workshop are offered for both from six
all the way up to high school, so they do
range of both. And yeah, that program I like to
(48:07):
look at it. You know, students learn about what self
care is, they learn about what mental health is, the
importance of self care and finding routines that work for them,
that make them feel good so they can deal with
the day to day struggles. While it's okay, not to
be okay, dealing with a higher I like to say
(48:27):
it almost turns students into many educators. You know, they
learned what a crisis is, so when they finish, they
walk away with the knowledge of you know what a
crisis is, what happens when your day to day dealings
and how you deal with stuff it is just too
much and you enter crisis level. See, they know themselves
(48:49):
and their friends and their family. They can identify what
a crisis is, and now they know that they have
the resources to reach out and even if they can't
deal with it themselves, of course, they know where to
find those resources and the forms they kind of fill out. Afterwards,
we do a pre workshop and a post and the
(49:09):
feedback we're getting from that is just crazy. Like you'll
walk in and they'll all say, do you know where
to locate assistance? You know, if something happens, And most
times it's no, no, not sure. And at the end
of the workshop it's almost ninety nine percent yes, yes, yes, yes,
I now.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Know where to go and where do people go?
Speaker 10 (49:29):
There's I mean, in Canda, we're lucky. We have so
many numbers. We have the BC Crisis Center of course,
and there's so many numbers. I will promote it because
it's such an amazing site. Foundry BC is just an
amazing website. So if anybody listens to this, if they
have any issue, you know, they want to check it out.
It has so many there's so many phone numbers Indigenous
(49:53):
you know, they have the links to the BC crisis there.
It's just a world of resources out there and they
they even have physical locations now all over you know,
the lower main language market can contest to and that's
that's where we always direct them immediately because there's just
such an outreach of so many different things that there's
(50:15):
little videos or maybe I was being bullied at school
or I'm worried about my ways. I mean, it's it's
hard to describe in one interview, but it's it's just
an amazing place to go.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
Do you guys find that bullying is a part of
what happens to kids who are dealing with mental health challenges?
Is bullying? Does that become a part of it as
a part of the stigma, Like you talk about reducing stigma,
and it just occurs to me that one of the
things that could happen to kids who are dealing with
a mental health challenge, is that they end up getting
(50:47):
bullied because of it? Is that what are you Are
you dealing with that in your workshop at all? Or
are you finding that in the populations that you work with?
Speaker 10 (50:57):
So far? No, again, we only get you know, seventy
minutes with them too, and it's and we're dealing with
that information and we want to get all this information
out to them and to the workshop. So so far
I haven't encountered anything yet. But you bring up a
good point because with that's, you know, with that stigma,
I'm not I would not be surprised that bullying is
(51:19):
part of it because that you know, when you that's
what prevents people from getting help, is that stigma?
Speaker 6 (51:25):
Mm hmm, you know, yeah, And go ahead, Mark, so
I can add a little bit to that. So the
where the funding came forward to launch It's Okay not
to be okay last year was actually as part of
not necessarily anti bullying, but like support for those who
are being bullied or are doing the bullying as well.
(51:45):
And how we were able to get that funding was
because while we were great there here, we're not here
seeing it too often, but a lot of times I
know from talking with Lana who Lana is our head
of very programs at the Center, thatking up in these
workshops sometimes can draw attention to yourself and a lot
of people will always answer honestly. But we set it
(52:07):
up that you know, by learning these skills about how
to support yourself or a friend in crisis, if you
or that friend are maybe bullying is the reason for
that crisis, now you have nowhere to go to get
that support before it gets a lot worse, because that's
a lot of what we were seeing with people was
that the initial active bullying maybe has a huge impact,
but it's the consistent ones that go on for a
(52:28):
long time is where the real, like real real negative
effects kick in. So by setting this up now that
people can understand that they're feeling angry or hurt about
that initial active bullying that happened towards them, they now
have somewhere where they can turn to the friend get
support with that, and get advice and help to navigate
through it and make sure that doesn't become you know,
(52:50):
a much larger issue for them.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
I see that you know in your programming and listening
to you that you clearly are tugging about things like
depression and suicide and and you know those kinds of things.
Do you also deal with or explain or bring education
around neuro divergent issues? So the autistic kid who's socially
not in the same place the rest of his friends
(53:13):
are and how that can negatively impact them, are you
able to do that or does that go beyond what
the crisis center is working on.
Speaker 6 (53:23):
I can speak to the community Learning and Engagement department
as a whole in all of our programs and then
maybe all if you want to speak specifically to any
of your experience as well on the carrying out the workshop.
So we worked in twenty twenty four with the Canucks
Autism Network to have our facilitators for adult side programming
(53:45):
and also our managers including Lana who helps put these
BRETH programs together, to get training on how to ensure
at these spaces that where we carry out these trainings
are you know, safe and accessible for people who are
neurodivirgin as well. So we don't teach directly about how
to support someone who's never a divergent. We do in
all of our training programs try to ensure that they're
(54:07):
like accessible for people and have a little bit of
our knowledge running through them through great.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
And Mark, just going back to a statement that you
made that we're recognizing mental health challenges in children that
are younger and younger. Do you think that perhaps that's
happening because as a society as a whole, we are
somehow managing to finally reduce the stigma around mental health
because I would imagine that it's the parents. Well, I
(54:35):
guess kids going to school might be identified as well,
but parents can really step in and prevent their kids
from having access to mental health services. Do you think
that's part of it, that we're actually reducing the stigma.
Speaker 5 (54:50):
A little bit?
Speaker 6 (54:51):
A million dollar question, I suppose, But I think this
is kind of a viewpoint I've always had, and I
think it's really wonderful in society that right now there's
so many campaigns about like, you know, if you're feeling
any sort of way, to speak about it and come
forward and talk to your friends. And I really do
(55:12):
see a huge impact that that's having in terms of
people reaching out for help and getting more support. But
I feel what can sometimes be lacking in those campaigns
is the training and support for those friends that you
turn to. So like, if you have a group of
like five sixteen year old boys, for an example, you know,
I've never talked to a mental health because they haven't
taken any of our programs, and one of their friends
(55:34):
speaks out that like, hey I'm dealing with depression or
hey I'm thinking about suicide right now, it's unfair of
us to think that those other four people in that
group would have the skills to be able to deal
with that right now. So that's what we're trying to
do here with these three or free workshops in schools,
especially the new It's okay enough to be okay, it's
to give them those very big the initial skills of
(55:56):
how to deal with that friend when they come forward
because you know, might have seen the Bellman Talk campaign
or they have seen some sort of campaign about coming
forward about your mental health. Trying to give that support
to those people who are then supporting that person. So yeah,
I think the stigma for sure is it's really helping
to have people come forward. And also in other organizations
(56:17):
like Foundry, lots of other places are also making that
those spaces more easily accessible for people when they need
to help as well, because it's not always about just
talking about it. You also need to get that help
as well.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Well. That's great, And how do people reach the Crisis
Center of BC.
Speaker 6 (56:34):
A couple of different numbers. You can call the three ten, six,
seven eight nine, so that's the mental health support line.
We also answer the nine eight eight, which is a
national emergency suicide crisis line, and there's also the one
eight hundred suicide line, which is a BC specific as well,
So we answer all three of those phone calls. And
you can also text nine eight eight as well, which
(56:54):
is very useful for some younger for teens and even
some adults as well who might not I sarily enjoy
talking on the phone. And you can also text ninety
eight and begin that conversation and to have the whole
thing carried out over text or when you're comfortable, maybe
have them call you then from there, depending on what
support you need.
Speaker 5 (57:13):
And how that's going.
Speaker 1 (57:14):
Great, Thank you guys. So that was Paul Vincent and
Mark Shaheen from the Crisis Center of BC talking to
us about their youth education programs that they put into schools.
Speaker 10 (57:24):
Thank you, guys, Thank you for having us. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (57:27):
You're welcome, thank you, and we'll be right back folks.
Rethreading Madness is coming up to its sixth anniversary of
being on air. We produce an air each week out
of CFR one hundred point five FM on the unseated
traditional territory of the Squamish, Muscreham and Sliwey Tooth nations
around Vancouver. Bc RTM was one of the first radio
(57:47):
programs to focus on mental health issues here in Canada,
in an area swamped with statements from therapists rooted in
colonial ideas about mental health and trained in the DSM.
RTM works to ensure that the voices of those with
lived experience have agency and opportunity to define who they
are and what is true for them who listens to us.
(58:09):
Beyond those with lived experience, our audience includes their friends
and partners, along with therapists, counselors, and students of psychology.
Since twenty twenty two, all of our programs have been
uploaded to the Mental Health Radio Network and can be
downloaded from all podcast platforms. So if this show was
of interest to you, you might find the rest of
(58:29):
our programs informative as well. You can find them by
searching for Rethreading Madness. Wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Speaker 11 (58:41):
Every Sunday night, listen to What's So Funny, the show
that probes the minds, the brains, the psychees and the
brains of the people who make the funny. What's So
Funny Sunday night, eleven PM to midnight.
Speaker 1 (59:04):
And that's our show. My thanks to Carl Dakers, sticker artist,
Urie Rice from the Outsiders and Others Gallery here in Vancouver,
and Mark Sheehan and Paul Vincent from the Crisis Center
of BC for chatting with us about what they do.
And as always, our gratitude goes out to you for
joining us today. Stay safe out there. You've just listened
to Rethreading Madness, where we dare to change how we
(59:26):
think about mental health. We air live on Vancouver co
Op Radio CFRO one hundred point five FM every Tuesday
at five pm or online at co opradio dot org.
If you have questions or feedback about this program, I
want to share your story or have something to say
to us, we want to hear from you. You can
reach us by email Rethreading Madness at co opradio dot org.
(59:50):
This is Berndine Fox We'll be back next week. Until then,
will ever been fir
You're listening to Vancouver co Op Radio cfr OH one
hundred point five FM. We're coming to you from the
unseated traditional territories of the Squamish, muscream and slighway tooth
nations around Vancouver, BC. I'm your host, Bernadine Fox, and
this is this show that dares to change how we
think about mental health. Welcome to Rethreading Madness.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
We have ever been fir No, what the hell I'm
gonna do when I can't see the fine away under over.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
You're listening to Rethreading Madness on Vancouver co Op Radio
cfr OH one hundred point five FM. I'm Bernardine Fox
and right now on the phone, I have Carl. You
know what, Carl, I didn't get your last name. What's
your last name? Dacres Thede here with the bee. I
only know you as Carl. The sticker Guy's kind of bad,
(01:08):
but not really because what you do is make stickers.
So can you tell us a little bit about who
you are and what you do?
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Well? I go by the artist's name Red Rum, and
I just I make stickers and I put them up
and I just, yeah, express myself that way.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
And what's the content of your stickers.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
It varies from images of myself as a child, to
feelings that I'm having at the time, statements I want
to make collaboration images with other artists. I just really
want to add layers of texture to the city, and
stickers are a nice way.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Would you say your stickers are political in any capacity?
Speaker 4 (01:54):
I wouldn't have thought so, but they mine aren't. Well,
that's a really good question, Bernie, because I try not
to be political, but I believe in some things that
I guess become political. So I've made some transgendered rights,
gay rights, First Nations Right stickers, and I guess that
(02:18):
would be considered political, but I'm I'm just trying to
say everyone deserves love and respect.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Yeah, it's odd that that would be political. I get it. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I often tell people that getting up every day as
a woman and continuing on with the day whatever comes,
is a political act. I do it every morning because
you have to deal with these things on a daily basis,
and it's you know, you're talking about the same thing.
How long have you been making stickers?
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Oh, let's see, twenty five years, but only really hard
for the last like five years, So.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
You kind of are that's burgeoning out there that I'm
seeing more and more.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Well it's actually quite old, but it's more burgeoning because
of the sticker community online. I believe, like I was
making stickers and putting them up for the longest time,
and I used to show my stuff on Flicker, like
I don't even know if that's a websit anymore, and
that's where I used to post my stickers and wheat pastes.
And then it just got to be too difficult carrying
(03:29):
around stencils and spray paint and wheat paste buckets and
all sorts of this equipment. So then I just finally
started making these little quick stickers to throw up, and
I just made little homemade stickers, and then I upgraded
to a thermal printer, and then after a thermal printer,
I just got a home printer, and yeah, I haven't
(03:50):
turned back. I don't like to get my stickers made
from outside sources. I mean, I don't have a problem
with that. They do an amazing job. I just I
like the actual act of making my sticker. So it's fun.
You have to cut it out, you have to got
a layer, you gotta it's just a whole process is
fun for me.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
And where do you put your stickers up?
Speaker 4 (04:14):
I try to put them up on places where they're
going to have some steam power. So I put them
up on the backs of signs, electrical boxes, whole posts.
I don't put them on anyone's property or the side
of stores. I try not to put them on public
trands and stuff, because they just get taken down immediately.
(04:35):
You want the sticker to stay up and people to
see it, right, You want to have a little bit
of life.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yeah, absolutely, But we're not here to talk about stickers,
although I will make sure people know where to find
your stickers by the end of this interview. We're here
to talk about the fact that you are somebody who
lives with seizures. Can you tell us about what that
means in your life? Sort of sort of a general
(05:01):
week is, what do seizures mean to your week?
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Ah, seizures mean I am unreliable and I don't I
don't know. I just you have no idea what's going
to happen, and because of that, you just feel very
unreliable and very I can't even think of the word
(05:27):
right now. I've had quite a few seizures this week.
So my word recall is a little off right, justly
just feeling empty and it feels like you're disappearing.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Can you tell us the mechanics of what actually happens
in your brain when you have a seizure.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I'm not really sure, but from what I understand, my
seizures take place in a part of my head that
we're like all your negative emotions and stuff to take place.
So when I do have a seizure and I come
to I feel like and being hit with waves of
just negative feelings about myself, just the waves and waves
(06:09):
of this self doubts of guilt, just you're not just
anything you can think about yourself and just yeah, and
I have to try and logically get myself out of
that space because I'm just like, that's not true. Your
brain's just telling me things that aren't real. Don't fall
for it. And yeah, it's a it's a it's a
lot of work. And then there's the physical part of
(06:32):
it too.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I'm going to get to that in a minute. But
do you always know that you're having a seizure?
Speaker 5 (06:37):
No?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
And so if you don't always know you're having a seizure,
and your experience of having that seizure is negative stuff
coming forward to you out of your own brain. That
could feel real, that could feel like like like you
need that's something you need to deal with in order
(07:00):
to be a better person or and I'm want to
give it. Yeah. And so an example I can sort
of pull forward is if you have a panic attack.
A panic attack is kind of the same thing. It's
completely irrational thoughts of you know that you conspiral you
down and you know, if you try, that's it. If
(07:20):
you try. And yeah, if you try and actually, you know,
engage with the panic attack and make sense out of
it and try and figure it out or rationalize it
or you know, work it through or process that you
are in cat and yeah, you're intensifying it and.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Engaging it more.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yes, And so to deal with a panic attack, you
literally have to get up and walk away from it.
And so, but at least you know you're having a
panic attack. If you don't know you're having a seizure,
you're just left with feeling crappy about yourself.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Yeah, and you just come to and it's you know,
only because of the post seizure victims that it's happened, right,
I mean, I do have an Apple Watch now that
tells me like when my heart rates spikes and it
recorded and stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
But before that, I just had to guess, well, yeah,
And I think that's probably something people misunderstand about seizures
is that they assume, because maybe they've seen somebody have
a seizure, that it's quite dramatic, right, or it can
be just nothing. You could just zone out, I suppose,
but these are the really dramatic ones where you drop
(08:27):
to the ground and you convulse and all of that stuff.
People don't realize that your brain isn't necessarily recording that
or registering that, So when you come out of a seizure,
you're you're not recalling like you said that you had
any one.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
And in the city like Vancouver, I've had a seizure
laid on the sidewalk and nothing's happened. People did walk by.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Well I understand, like it's not that it's right, but
I've seen people just walk by other people just laying
on the ground from other problems, mental health, addiction issues,
So it's not like anything special. It's it's terrible for
a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, terrible. If you have uh diabetes, and you're having
a low blood sugar reaction, and could you know, have
serious harm because and.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Die Because there's lots of reasons.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
So are your seizures such that you would die from them?
Speaker 4 (09:28):
I'm not sure. I hope not. I'm not sure. I've
had a lot of head is sheet head trauma, so
I'm trying to figure out that's part of the reason.
I've got a lot of pressure in my head. I
have headaches all the time. But I'm I'm a multi
symptom medical person. I don't think I've epilepsia. I have
fibromyalgia and chronic post to my extress in the room,
(09:53):
and I've got a bunch of other issues physically. And yeah,
it's it's a painful, painful life. But art and family
are what get you through it.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
How does the seizures impact on your mental health other
than being bombarded with a lot of negative stuff?
Speaker 4 (10:17):
But they leave me feeling inadequate, They leave me feeling
like I'm not contributing enough in my partner's life, in
my son's life, in my community. I just it just
makes you feeling really alienated. It's like you're alone all
the time. And because it could happen in any moment.
(10:39):
You never know when you're just going to become that.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Does having the seizures and not knowing when it's going
to happen tend to exasperate your PTSD. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
I'm just at a high level of all the time
that I just I'm not sure. I have to ask
my wife. I just right now at this point in
my life, I thought I was calm for a while,
but it's been, like I said, the last couple of
weeks have been really uh caesar stressed out. So but
I'm hoping that uh, I just got some new mens
and I'm hoping that it'll help level things out for
(11:18):
a while. That would be nice, because Caesars are not fun.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
No, I'm met sure to add an art talk where
you were talking about your stickers. It was at the
Outsider and Others Gallery here in Vancouver, BC, and one
of your pieces of art included all the names of
all the medication you take basically on a daily basis.
(11:44):
Can you can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Yeah, I'm actually very lucky to have a family doctor
who's been with me. Well she's not my kindly doctor,
but I have my doctor who has been with me
for so years on this journey, and I wouldn't be
here without her. But it's a lot of pills I take.
(12:09):
And thank Goodness or God or whoever you want to
thank that we live in Canada, because I would definitely
be deeply in debt with all the medications I need.
I take a wide variety of pills and just to
try and get through the day and try and hold
off a seizure, keep one at day, and just to
(12:33):
try and keep my mental health at a good place too,
because I also suffer from ADHD pretty severely. So if
I don't take my ADHD meds, then it's also that
they are shot. It's hard to focus. It's like, yeah,
it's all over the place. Seizures and ADHD don't go
(12:54):
there together too well.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
And I would imagine fibromiologia as well, because they know
that fiber mile and chronic I have chronic pataste are
a central nervous system problem.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
That's what I also have, is central nervous and de sensitivity.
That was the thing I couldn't remember. That's the other
condition I have, which means once my body healed, I'm
still feeling the residual like pain effects. Even though it's
the muscles of heels, I'm still feeling like they're torn, right. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Yeah, So your central nervous system doesn't know I call
it not knowing how to shut it off. Like once
it's activated, the shut off vowel is broken, and you
just end up cycling through it and through it and
through and through it as the real Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
And then once you the pain, I think the pain
induces the seizures, then the seizures induces pain, and then
it's just like a NonStop handster.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
And also if your muscles are contracting, that's a part
of pain cycle.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Tare.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Yeah, I'm on a lot of muscle pain pill. Sorry
to say on so many kinds. It's just, uh, there's
so much here going on. There's a lot of pills,
a lot of pain. But I'm just trying to really
focus on things.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Right, And you're doing with depression and anxiety as well, correct, Yeah?
And is that do you think that that's caused from
the fibro which is impacted your central nervous system the ADHD,
which those are those are things that happen along with
ADHD or do you think those are a side effect
(14:34):
from the seizure or it's all day above.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yeah, from a young age mental health neglected, and then
to and two young teenage years and into adulthood, and
then it's only recently last would you say, fifteen twenty
years that mental health has become an issue, like it's
been acknowledged. Yeah, but before that it was just pretty
(15:00):
much there's something wrong with you. And then that was it.
They would say.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
And were you having seizures as a child as well,
or is this something that came on as an adult.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
These only came on as an adult, I believe. But
I don't have a very good recollection as my childhood
because I lived in foster care and then I was
a ward of the government, and at eighteen, I just was.
Speaker 6 (15:25):
That's it, right.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
And as we discussed, you don't always you're not always
aware that you've had a seizures. It is something that
is not necessarily in your cognitive awareness. Even if you
just had it, you stand up and go on with
your life and not realizing you just had a seizure.
So yes, unless somebody is recording.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
It, like yeah, and I never noticed there was one.
There's waiting in here, Like there's times where I just
thought I was just sitting there and just staring at
something for a while, not realizing that that was a seizure,
and then I would just kind of snap out of it,
and I was just like, oh, I thought I was
just like you only beating at something. But there's more
thans where you can't move, and like you you're like,
(16:06):
you feel paralyzed, but your brain wants to move, but
your body won't move right. It's it's a lot. It's
a lot. Like I'm not looking for sympathy, but it's
a lot.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
No, it is a lot. What you've described is a
life that is impacted on so many levels by so
many things that have to do with mental health but
also have to do with your physical health. And I
think you're doing a tremendous job navigating the whole thing,
and your wife as well. Kudos to her.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
I would be lost without her.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Mm hmm. So where can people find your art?
Speaker 4 (16:42):
It's right now showing at the Outsiders Gallery, and you
could find it on red Rum, Underscore Ays, Underscore Crew
on Instagram, and it will also be seen in the
streets of Vancouver.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
And so they should look at electric boxes behind signs
and but not bus stops and where else you mentioned
another play?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Oh, polls. We like doing polls. Myatet Uben newtant He
and I put up a lot of stickers together. It's
good to have a cruise eight.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yes, absolutely, but if I want to buy your art,
they should contact byers and others.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
And yes, also, my wife has made an exty website
I believe, oh cool, connected to my Instagram accounts.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Okay, so they can find that in your Instagram. So
if the if the show is down by the time
somebody hears this at the Outsider and Others gallery in
Vancouver where they could buy your work. They can also
go through your Etsy account, which they can find on
your Instagram page, and.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
They can message me on Instagram and we can always
set up any sort of private deals.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Okay, that's great, and you're you're open to people contacting
here directly totally, Okay, all right, Well thank you. Carl
the sticker guy also called Carl.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Gay ker Am I saying, yes, appreciate.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Oh, you're welcome. We'll talk soon. Okay, day, We'll be
right back.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Oh you have this.
Speaker 7 (18:16):
A lot of people call this rock and roll.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Swings. This is going the let's see with the left hand.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
Yeah, and the right hand fits in with something like this. Yeah,
here we go now.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (18:33):
It's called rock and roll and you can hear all
about it on Rock Talk Discover the hidden but enchanting
side of the music Friday mornings at nine o'clock.
Speaker 5 (18:46):
Oh that isn't enchanting. Nothing is.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
Go ahead, Jess, dance go crazy.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
You're listening to ruthreading Madness on Vancouver co up Radios,
Yes one point five FM. I'm Bernardine Fox, and today
I have Yuria Rice with me. He's the artistic director
and curator for Outsiders and Others, which is an art
gallery here in Vancouver.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
Welcome Uri, hy berdic Dame. It's pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
I'm glad you're here. We have been talking to Carl
and he's an artist that has has had a show.
It has a show now in your gallery and has
artwork that can be bought.
Speaker 6 (19:29):
For sale there.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
I was hoping that you could tell us a little
bit about what Outsiders and Others is.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Oh, my pleasure, Bernie.
Speaker 8 (19:38):
Outsiders and Others is a nonprofit organization that opened in
Vancouver at the very beginning of COVID, actually in June
of twenty one was our first exhibition. We opened a
window gallery on East Hastings in downtown Vancouver, East Hastings
being in the lowest income postal code in our province,
(20:06):
and we were there for about five years, and then
we moved to downtown Vancouver about six months ago because
our building went up for sale. Our organization specifically focuses
on bringing non traditional artists to the forefront. Non traditional
artists primarily being artists who are self taught, artists who
(20:29):
are with lived experience, artists with disabilities, a variety of things,
but primarily artists that most organizations or most galleries aren't
working with, or artists who have never shown before. In
doing that, we do an exhibition every month. Everything we
do is curated. We pay artists exhibition honorariums. We pay
(20:50):
them seventy five percent of everything that sells. We do
lots of mentoring and things of that nature. And I
don't know if I said this, but we do an
exhibition every month, so we always having new exhibition going on.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
And yeah, in a nutshell, that's that's who we are.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So you are it sounds like you are a non
profit gallery.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
That is that is correct.
Speaker 8 (21:15):
We are in an profit and that's why we are
able to you know, pay honorariums and and and give
artists so much of sale prices for artwork because we're
here to you know, help support these artists that deserve
the support just like any other practicing.
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Artists, as well as to.
Speaker 8 (21:34):
Help elevate them and help their work be seen in
a more professional manner.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
And you know, in working with this with a non.
Speaker 8 (21:43):
Traditional community, one of the biggest challenges I think is
always getting people to not focus on labels and focus
on the work. I mean, it also depends on what
we're doing. Uh now, So May is mental health aware
this month, as we all know, and so every May
(22:03):
we do something honoring the month. And typically what we
do is we do a call for artists. But this
year I did something different in that I wanted to
know select three artists that I'd never worked with before,
who make work that is completely different from each other,
that doesn't necessarily focus on mental health, that we're focused.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
On aesthetics and so forth.
Speaker 8 (22:28):
And Carl or his street or tag name is red Rum,
but I'll prefer name is Carl because it's much more personal.
And Carl is that kind of guy. But Carl is
a is a good example of what we do. Is
that Carl's never worked with a gallery before. Carl wouldn't
(22:51):
necessarily see what he does as art. But he's an
incredible artist. And in I mean he's for people who
don't know or you're hearing in the context of this
the interview with Carl, But he is a sticker slapper
or a sticker artist, and he makes all of his
own stickers. He doesn't have them produced, and he has
(23:14):
thousands of designs and he goes out and he creates
these huge mass areas of stickers with a consortium of
sticker artists from around the world called AYS, which stands
for all you see. But in the exhibition here at
the gallery, everything that Carl has in here is only
his own work, only his own sticker work.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
So there's a.
Speaker 8 (23:35):
Combination of pieces that are you know, like panels that
are completely covered with stickers, that have silk screening on them,
and he does embossed.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
Seals on them.
Speaker 8 (23:48):
It's all about pride in an interesting way.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
That's what I love about Carl's work.
Speaker 8 (23:54):
It's about here and it's about now, and almost all
of the images on the stagies are of himself as
a child as well as just text. And there's a
lot of advocacy work too, I mean from a little
experience point of view he has, you know, he makes
stickers about mental health hotlines and things like that and
(24:15):
have a nice day and if you need help, call
this number, and in the mix of everything that he does,
so there's this balance of incredible creativity and advocacy all
of the same time, and that's kind of something.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
That really excites me.
Speaker 8 (24:31):
One of the pieces in the show here is a
soak screen of his face as a child with a frown,
and it says neuro divergent sticker insurgent, and then drawn
all around it in these red and pink dots is
a list of the twenty eight medications that he currently takes.
(24:52):
And when you're presented with that, like one thing I
love about it, it's like, in the context of a gallery,
you're taking information like that, which is aesthetically beautifully presented.
It's important to really say that you know the work
visually first and foremost is the most important thing, but
it's so personal and you're kind of fooled by what
(25:15):
it is because of the aesthetics of it, but when
you take the time and you're actually reading it and
you think for a minute, it's like the vulnerability that
this artist is putting forward is unheard of, and it's
an opportunity for people to, I think, work like this.
It's an opportunity for people to see how difficult it
(25:37):
is for artists of any label, any identity, any experience
to expose themselves in their art. It's not an easy thing,
and so many artists do that. You know, there's another artist,
Carol Embling who's in this show, who does the exact
same type of work, but it looks nothing like Carl's,
but the work is very open and vulnerable. And the
(26:00):
other artist, Gabriel Rather is a mural artist and his
work is not focused that way. It's about large, powerful images,
you know, that have a lot of presence in space.
But all three of these artists identify with lived experience.
They collaboratively and with the gallery take on an exhibition
(26:22):
like this in a way to show the artwork that
they do, but also to stand proud of who they
are as it's a mission based show and that's how
I look at it. It's not just about the artwork,
even though that's the first thing, but it has a mission,
you know, we want to talk about mental health and
we do that through an opening reception. We had a
great artist talk two weeks ago where all three artists
(26:44):
were there completely open, casual discussions. And that's one of
the great things about what you do as well. It's
these opportunities for people to speak openly and honestly without
hesitation and to not be perfect, and we we don't
have enough of those opportunities nowadays, particular, I think, where
we are very sensitive to language and how people say things,
(27:07):
and we're less forgiving about that, and I you know,
for me, I like doing shows like this because it
allows people to you know, mess up and learn, you know,
and it's really important to do that because that's how
we all just kind of, you know, coexist together, just
by learning from each other. And exhibitions like this, I
think are a really great opportunity to do that. And
(27:29):
it's a real privilege to do things like this because
I see how it affects the artists we work with,
as well as.
Speaker 5 (27:35):
The patrons and the community that comes in to see
the shows.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Can you I think everybody who comes to my program
and listens knows now what lived experience is, and of
course there's all kinds of lived experience. When we talk
about it here, it's about lived experience with mental health challenges.
Can you, though, define what an outsider is when it
comes to art?
Speaker 8 (27:59):
So I can't give you a clear definition only because
it's something that is endlessly changing right now, I think,
and that has so much to do with the change
of language in our communities.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
The mental health connection.
Speaker 8 (28:14):
I'll say this to outsider art is it was first
really recognized in the late eighteen seventies in Switzerland. Doctor Prisborne,
if I'm correct, started this doctor who worked in an institution,
an asylum, collected artworks by his patients. And nowadays the
(28:38):
PRIs Worn collection is revered as one of the world's
most significant collections of outsider art. And if you don't
know it, it's worth looking up because you will see
some of the most incredible artworks you've ever seen by
these individuals who were isolated and the same mistreated is
an understatement, and so there's a kind of an origin
(29:02):
of the outsider art discussion comes from, you know, the story.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
Of mental health.
Speaker 8 (29:07):
It throughout time, you know, there's a history of it
in Europe, where it was referred to as art brute
for a long time, or as an air bracketing art madness,
and in the believe it was in the nineteen seventies
somebody in the United States coined the term outsider art,
and then it started being used that way in North America,
(29:28):
that term outside of art. I'm going to say that
the way that we look at it is I primarily
focus on artists that are self taught, taught being artists
who have not gone to art school in any way,
shape or form, and primarily because the experience that artists
have when they go into an art school. I speak
for myself as a formally trained artist. You know, once
(29:50):
you have one conversation, your perspective has changed, right, You
just see things differently, You just learnt something. You have
language that it's good or bad, it's just different. And
artists who haven't had those experiences, their creativity comes from
a different place and it has a different sponsoraneity that
(30:12):
the majority of formally trained artists aren't able to access
or have anymore because they were trained not to be
that way now. And so that's just what interests me
and in the disability discussion that somehow has fallen into
the realm of outside of art. But for me, it's
about artists who use their disability like they have tools.
(30:35):
They have gifts in their toolbox that I don't have.
So many artists are able to hone that tool and use.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
It in a way that nobody else can, and that
is an amazing thing to see accomplished in creativity.
Speaker 8 (30:51):
You know, like there's artists out there that can do
things that nobody else can, and if I have the
opportunity to bring light to that, I'm going to do
it without a question, because there's not enough of that
kind of stuff that's interesting. I do like to think
that we show a lot of artists that you'll just
not see anywhere else. But outsider art for us is
(31:12):
generally working with artists that are self taught. You know,
there's exceptions to that. You know, when we do mission
based shows, it's more open. One are the artists in
our current show is a formerly trained artist. But again
it goes back to the work and the artwork, and
that's most important.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Mission based art.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
Sorry, yeah, that's a term that I just kind of use.
Speaker 8 (31:34):
It's you know, it's when you do a show that
is honoring, you know, mental Health Awareness Month, I'm focusing
on mental health, So it's kind of a mission show.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
It's like, I have a mission.
Speaker 8 (31:44):
Here and show artists with lived experience to have those discussions.
Not to take away from the art again, but it's
just it's a mission. In December, you know, sometimes we
do an International Day of Persons with Disability show.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
I would consider that a mission based show. But at
the same time, Bernardine, I would.
Speaker 8 (32:03):
Say, the majority of the artists that we work with
identify with.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
Some label, do you know what I mean? In their life?
Speaker 8 (32:10):
And I think the more that we how we present
the work and talk about the work and what we
share with the public about the artists becomes less important
because it's the work is the most important thing, you know,
Like in the discussion of to remove from mental health,
I mean art.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
When we're talking about art, you know.
Speaker 8 (32:33):
Where you've gone to school, who you've taught with, who
you've learnt with.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
All of that is nobody cares. Nobody cares. I don't.
They just don't.
Speaker 8 (32:43):
All they care about is what's in front of them
and whether or not they connect to it or not,
and whether or not they want to make a lifetime
commitment of spending money on something that you've made, which
is huge. I don't take selling artists on one thing.
It's such a big deal. But anyway, that's a whole
other discuss.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
But we could talk about Carl's art. That's there. We
talked about it with Carl. But you you have some
pieces there that I find extraordinary just because of the
form that they're in.
Speaker 5 (33:13):
Can you talk about that completely?
Speaker 8 (33:15):
So Carl I mentioned before, he's done some pieces that
are you know, two dimensional framed on a wall, that
are all stickers with silkscreen on them. But at the
same time, we have a twelve cabinet locker that is
completely covered with thousands of his stickers.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
Within that cabinet.
Speaker 8 (33:32):
Each one of those cabinet doors, you can open it
and he has something like a large medication bottle where
he's made a custom label on the front of it
that has says it has.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
No refills and take is needed.
Speaker 8 (33:45):
And you open the bottle and there's fifteen stickers inside
and a button of his. There are packages of one
hundred stickers. There are recycling miniature recycling bins that have
you know, one hundred stickers in them and things of
that nature. He's made, you know, twelve by fourteen inch stickers.
He has a faux spraycand that you take a part
(34:07):
and you open it up and it's stashed with two
hundred stickers and buttons and stuff like. It's just it's
this interesting combination of merchandise and art. And when you
buy a package of his stickers, the whole point is
for you to go out and have some fun and
put them somewhere with joy, in a legal place. And
it's just about joy, I mean, And that really exemplifies
(34:30):
so much of what Carl represents.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
You know, like he's you know, he's a really positive force.
Speaker 8 (34:37):
I think, like I've only worked with him for a
couple of months now, SE's new to my world, but
he's a real positive forces the way he's able to
talk about his work as well as he lives it.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
You know.
Speaker 8 (34:52):
It's like at the opening reception, it was funny because
and this is not a negative, but you know, Carl
left like fifteen minutes early because he has to go stickering,
and it was just what it was. And you know,
it's fine, right, you do what you need to do.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
It's all good.
Speaker 8 (35:06):
He lives it, you know, and that's one of the
things that so many artists that fall into the outside
are realm. Do they live their work right? You know,
They're not going in the studio and painting. They're just
living it, and it's a very different experience. And Carl
is a really good example of that. But after this show,
(35:27):
I mean, we're going to continue.
Speaker 5 (35:28):
To work with Carl for sure. People really like his work.
Speaker 8 (35:32):
His work is sold and I think what he's doing
is great, so we'll always carry his work for sure.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Can you give us an idea or sense of the
shows that you have coming up, not necessarily dates and stuff,
but just to give us an idea of what outsiders
and others completely.
Speaker 8 (35:52):
So the show that we have, the current show is
actually called Brainchild.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
Was the name of the show. They've had a longer title.
It was called Brainchild and an idea or an invention,
which is considered a particular person's creation. That was the
name of this show. That show ends.
Speaker 8 (36:12):
Today, unfortunately, but you can still see Carl's work after
that if you want to come in, and we always
have access to the other artists work too. But our
next show opens in June seventh, and it's a solo
exhibition with an artist named Scotti. Colin Scotty's an artist
that we've worked with for a few years now, an
(36:32):
artists with lived experience as well. Then after that, in August,
Scotty show is a month and a half closed for
a few weeks. And then in August we have a
show with an artist named Sema Shaw who is also
a writer. Seema has a solo show called Missing Pieces
and it's all based on what she would consider a
(36:53):
life of trauma, and she is exploring the idea that
trauma is not something that goes away, it's kind of
something that you have with you forever. It's a it's
a really interesting show. Another artist in September are Arnatson,
who makes huge objects out of sculptural pieces that have
(37:13):
found objects like plane wings.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
And you know, aren't y yeah yeah.
Speaker 8 (37:22):
After that we have a show called The Long Fan
or the Family Long and it's a family of artists
who live on Vancouver Island. November, we have an amazing
show from France. Three self taught sorry, three self taught
artists working and living in France right now. And France
is an important country and the discussion of outsider art,
(37:44):
because France is the number one concentrated place in the
world for recognized outsider art, artists and environments. And then
to end the year out in December, we're doing a
show called Postcards from the Edge, and basically it is
a fundraise for the gallery. But anybody who takes a
four x six postcard, makes a piece of art on it,
(38:06):
puts a stamp, and puts it in the mail. It's
going to go on our wall and every card will
be for sale for twenty dollars and the gallery receives
the proceeds and you can find information about that on
our website. There's a call for artist page on it.
I'll just say it quickly. It's www dot outsiders and
others dot com all spelled out and a low.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Do people pick up the postcards, Well.
Speaker 5 (38:31):
You can just make it yourself.
Speaker 8 (38:32):
I mean We've been getting i mean legitimately in the
last two weeks, I've received cards from Malaysia, Japan, Europe, and.
Speaker 5 (38:40):
The United States. How it happens, how people find out
is amazing, right, But yeah, it's great, and so you
just have to put it in the mail, you know. Okay,
I'm really worried about the card and stuff like it
getting damaged. It's kind of part of the point. You know,
there's a long history of mail art where kind of
embraced that with this.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah, you're right, there is a long history. So really
what you're saying is just because somebody has a mental
health challenge that they live with does not mean that
their art is therapy.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
So I think art therapy is a different discussion.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah, it is, I mean, and that's not what we're
discussing here.
Speaker 5 (39:22):
That's that's all it's not.
Speaker 8 (39:24):
I mean, it's and it's not that I have any
issue with art therapy. But the thing is is that
when you're experiencing therapy, that is not something I think
for the general public to experience.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
It's yours. And of course, from.
Speaker 8 (39:37):
An art therapeutic experience, you know, there's great things that
happen there, but the magic is really about you, and
it is not necessarily you know, created in a way
that's to be shared with everybody, because it's more powerful
to the maker than it is to anybody else.
Speaker 5 (39:54):
You know.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
I do think that there are some people who think
that when art is made by anyone who has a
disability or mental health challenge that it's not really art,
it's just therapy. It's kind of what I was getting at,
and so you are proving that that is in fact
not correct. So people can get a hold of you
through Outsiders and Others on your website is Outsiders and
(40:17):
Others dot com all written.
Speaker 5 (40:19):
Out, Yes it is. And we are on Instagram and
we're on Facebook and we are just at Outsiders and Others. Okay,
we post every day so you always know what we
have going on. On our website. We have calls for artists.
Speaker 8 (40:32):
You can see all of our past exhibitions and things
of that nature, and we're easy to contact.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Right well, thank you Youuri.
Speaker 5 (40:39):
This is the privilege. Thanks for the time.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
It's really You're welcome and we'll be right back, folks.
Speaker 9 (40:45):
Tanna up qui get euons Queen sna Hi, everybody. My
name is Quate Yuon's. I'm a member of the Squamish
Nation and the Yagolanis Klan of the Hyda Nation. You're
listening to co Op Radio cfro O one hundred point
five FM. We live, work play and broadcast from the
traditional ancestral and unseeded territories of the Musk Wiham, Squamish
(41:06):
and Sleave with tooth Nations.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
You're listening to Rethreading Madness on Bancruter co Op Radios
yep R one hundred point five FM. I'm Bernardine Fox
and I am talking with Paul Vincent and Mark Sheehan
from the Crisis Center of BC. Welcome you guys, Thank.
Speaker 10 (41:22):
You, thank you for having us.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Mark.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Can you tell us a little bit about who you
are in terms in relationship to the Crisis Center of
BC and what that is.
Speaker 6 (41:33):
Yeah, absolutely so. I'm currently the program director of our
Community Learning and Engagement department the firm die Head. Yeah,
we have youth programs for youth program for people who
are suicide brieves, and we also have our adults education
and training programs. So we focus mostly on supporting those
people who are have lost them into suicide. We focus
(41:56):
on building up the mental health literacy skills of youth.
But NBC which polity to talk about. And then we
also train organizations, communities and individuals all across the province
and how to do suicide prevention and mental health kind
of support work.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, you have a program called I Believe the Youth Educator.
I'm certainly bastardizing that name. But you have a program
that teaches youth about mental health. Can you tell us
a little bit about where that program came from. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (42:28):
Absolutely, So we used to have a full suite of
wellness programs for the crisis Center that we would provide
free to you know, different communities and things like that.
We've ritten a lot of interest about programs for youth
and we had the staff at the time who were
very much experts in youth mental health. So they created
(42:50):
our first program, which is called Self Care for Mental
Health that's designed for any age youth and we provide
that for free to high schools all over the Lower Mainland.
And then recently the I guess the base knowledge of
youth in general and when it comes to mental health
then it comes to crisis prevention has increased over the
(43:12):
last couple of years just with access to you know,
information and it being more but topicly that's less to
talk about in some ways. So we have recently added
another program called It's Okay Not to Be Okay, which
focuses on kind of older youth in high schools and
goes into a little bit more depth on you know,
how to support your friends in crisis and a little
(43:32):
bit more kind of real and in depth about the
mental health issues that can come up and how to
deal with them. Moving around for a number of years
now and have trained thousands and thousands of youth across
hundreds of different schools in the Lower Mainland, and yeah,
plan to keep it going for as long as it's needed,
which I'd imagine it will be quite a number of years.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
I've noticed that your programs start at grade six. Is
there a reason why you don't do programming for children
in elementary school, well, younger grades anyway, because six is
still elementary here.
Speaker 6 (44:07):
Yeah, there's a couple of other programs in the Vancouver
that covered that age range. And to be honest, when
we were putting this program together, we didn't have the
expertise internally for younger youth and elementary school youth. And
there's a little bit of a difference in how you
talk about crisis and mental health when it comes to
that age, and we just we don't have that knowledge
base within the team, so we focus on the grade
(44:30):
six and up.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Okay, So it's not because there aren't any mental health
issues for children under the age of grade six. Right.
Speaker 6 (44:37):
So no, Unfortunately, quite an unfortunate trend. We are seeing
a mental health crisises are coming up earlier and earlier
for for youth in BC.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
Yeah, so, Paul, welcome. Tell us a little bit about you.
Speaker 10 (44:54):
Well, I'm originally from Newfoundland, so I'm a Newfie. But
I don't have those really wild accents.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
How come would you like leave them behind or did
you just never have them?
Speaker 10 (45:06):
Ask weird questions, but I know it's it's a common question.
I actually worked very hard removing it because I spent
thirty years most of my life in hospitality and I
had to learn how to speak slower and a little
bit better because people really couldn't understand me. So I
actually worked hard to kind of remove it. But I'm
(45:26):
very proud to be a new fee.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Well that's good.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
We should all be proud of where we where we
call home. So tell us about your relationship to the
youth education program that Crisis Center of BC puts on.
Speaker 10 (45:42):
Well, how it originally started. I worked for our community,
the Jeep community in the Lower Mainland, and for three
years we got together and ran a program called jeep
Apalooza over on the Vancouver Atlung where we raise a
quarter of a million dollars for breast cancer. I was
the creator of the website and the master of ceremonies
with my husband for three years. Once I separated myself
(46:05):
from that, it was a couple of years and we
were I decided I needed to do something. I wanted
to get back and give something back. And we were
sitting out just at a local pub with friends and
I just decided I'm going to take a look, and
immediately I found the BC Crisis Center website and it
resonated with me right away that they were looking for
(46:26):
volunteers and there was like adult there were so many
different programs evolved, and I'm very new young at heart,
I resonate very young. I mean, I'm fifty almost fifty five,
but I mentally I'm like eighteen. So I've always been young.
And my personal experiences because I had an attempt at
(46:47):
suicide and growing up, I know from personal experience that
if I had reached and I had the resources when
I was young, I would have been a different person.
So by the time you reach adulthood, a lot of
the damage is already done. So I absolutely said that,
you know, I want to be involved in the youth
programs because I think it's important to reach youth at
(47:08):
an early age.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Hmm, I agree. So you are one of the workshop
educators for I think self care and it's okay not
to be okay.
Speaker 5 (47:24):
Correct.
Speaker 10 (47:25):
I am part of both. I started with originally with
the Self Care Workshop, which I'm still obviously very much involved,
which I love. And yeah, I was honored that because
it was a pilot program this year or that I
was approached and asked to be one of the new
facilitators to get trained and start this new program. And
(47:45):
I love both programs. They both have a special place
on my heart. They're both great, and they both reach
you at a different level and you can see the
reactions you know, at both. Like Mark said, you know,
the Self Care Workshop are offered for both from six
all the way up to high school, so they do
range of both. And yeah, that program I like to
(48:07):
look at it. You know, students learn about what self
care is, they learn about what mental health is, the
importance of self care and finding routines that work for them,
that make them feel good so they can deal with
the day to day struggles. While it's okay, not to
be okay, dealing with a higher I like to say
(48:27):
it almost turns students into many educators. You know, they
learned what a crisis is, so when they finish, they
walk away with the knowledge of you know what a
crisis is, what happens when your day to day dealings
and how you deal with stuff it is just too
much and you enter crisis level. See, they know themselves
(48:49):
and their friends and their family. They can identify what
a crisis is, and now they know that they have
the resources to reach out and even if they can't
deal with it themselves, of course, they know where to
find those resources and the forms they kind of fill out. Afterwards,
we do a pre workshop and a post and the
(49:09):
feedback we're getting from that is just crazy. Like you'll
walk in and they'll all say, do you know where
to locate assistance? You know, if something happens, And most
times it's no, no, not sure. And at the end
of the workshop it's almost ninety nine percent yes, yes, yes, yes,
I now.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Know where to go and where do people go?
Speaker 10 (49:29):
There's I mean, in Canda, we're lucky. We have so
many numbers. We have the BC Crisis Center of course,
and there's so many numbers. I will promote it because
it's such an amazing site. Foundry BC is just an
amazing website. So if anybody listens to this, if they
have any issue, you know, they want to check it out.
It has so many there's so many phone numbers Indigenous
(49:53):
you know, they have the links to the BC crisis there.
It's just a world of resources out there and they
they even have physical locations now all over you know,
the lower main language market can contest to and that's
that's where we always direct them immediately because there's just
such an outreach of so many different things that there's
(50:15):
little videos or maybe I was being bullied at school
or I'm worried about my ways. I mean, it's it's
hard to describe in one interview, but it's it's just
an amazing place to go.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
Do you guys find that bullying is a part of
what happens to kids who are dealing with mental health challenges?
Is bullying? Does that become a part of it as
a part of the stigma, Like you talk about reducing stigma,
and it just occurs to me that one of the
things that could happen to kids who are dealing with
a mental health challenge, is that they end up getting
(50:47):
bullied because of it? Is that what are you Are
you dealing with that in your workshop at all? Or
are you finding that in the populations that you work with?
Speaker 10 (50:57):
So far? No, again, we only get you know, seventy
minutes with them too, and it's and we're dealing with
that information and we want to get all this information
out to them and to the workshop. So so far
I haven't encountered anything yet. But you bring up a
good point because with that's, you know, with that stigma,
I'm not I would not be surprised that bullying is
(51:19):
part of it because that you know, when you that's
what prevents people from getting help, is that stigma?
Speaker 6 (51:25):
Mm hmm, you know, yeah, And go ahead, Mark, so
I can add a little bit to that. So the
where the funding came forward to launch It's Okay not
to be okay last year was actually as part of
not necessarily anti bullying, but like support for those who
are being bullied or are doing the bullying as well.
(51:45):
And how we were able to get that funding was
because while we were great there here, we're not here
seeing it too often, but a lot of times I
know from talking with Lana who Lana is our head
of very programs at the Center, thatking up in these
workshops sometimes can draw attention to yourself and a lot
of people will always answer honestly. But we set it
(52:07):
up that you know, by learning these skills about how
to support yourself or a friend in crisis, if you
or that friend are maybe bullying is the reason for
that crisis, now you have nowhere to go to get
that support before it gets a lot worse, because that's
a lot of what we were seeing with people was
that the initial active bullying maybe has a huge impact,
but it's the consistent ones that go on for a
(52:28):
long time is where the real, like real real negative
effects kick in. So by setting this up now that
people can understand that they're feeling angry or hurt about
that initial active bullying that happened towards them, they now
have somewhere where they can turn to the friend get
support with that, and get advice and help to navigate
through it and make sure that doesn't become you know,
(52:50):
a much larger issue for them.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
I see that you know in your programming and listening
to you that you clearly are tugging about things like
depression and suicide and and you know those kinds of things.
Do you also deal with or explain or bring education
around neuro divergent issues? So the autistic kid who's socially
not in the same place the rest of his friends
(53:13):
are and how that can negatively impact them, are you
able to do that or does that go beyond what
the crisis center is working on.
Speaker 6 (53:23):
I can speak to the community Learning and Engagement department
as a whole in all of our programs and then
maybe all if you want to speak specifically to any
of your experience as well on the carrying out the workshop.
So we worked in twenty twenty four with the Canucks
Autism Network to have our facilitators for adult side programming
(53:45):
and also our managers including Lana who helps put these
BRETH programs together, to get training on how to ensure
at these spaces that where we carry out these trainings
are you know, safe and accessible for people who are
neurodivirgin as well. So we don't teach directly about how
to support someone who's never a divergent. We do in
all of our training programs try to ensure that they're
(54:07):
like accessible for people and have a little bit of
our knowledge running through them through great.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
And Mark, just going back to a statement that you
made that we're recognizing mental health challenges in children that
are younger and younger. Do you think that perhaps that's
happening because as a society as a whole, we are
somehow managing to finally reduce the stigma around mental health
because I would imagine that it's the parents. Well, I
(54:35):
guess kids going to school might be identified as well,
but parents can really step in and prevent their kids
from having access to mental health services. Do you think
that's part of it, that we're actually reducing the stigma.
Speaker 5 (54:50):
A little bit?
Speaker 6 (54:51):
A million dollar question, I suppose, But I think this
is kind of a viewpoint I've always had, and I
think it's really wonderful in society that right now there's
so many campaigns about like, you know, if you're feeling
any sort of way, to speak about it and come
forward and talk to your friends. And I really do
(55:12):
see a huge impact that that's having in terms of
people reaching out for help and getting more support. But
I feel what can sometimes be lacking in those campaigns
is the training and support for those friends that you
turn to. So like, if you have a group of
like five sixteen year old boys, for an example, you know,
I've never talked to a mental health because they haven't
taken any of our programs, and one of their friends
(55:34):
speaks out that like, hey I'm dealing with depression or
hey I'm thinking about suicide right now, it's unfair of
us to think that those other four people in that
group would have the skills to be able to deal
with that right now. So that's what we're trying to
do here with these three or free workshops in schools,
especially the new It's okay enough to be okay, it's
to give them those very big the initial skills of
(55:56):
how to deal with that friend when they come forward
because you know, might have seen the Bellman Talk campaign
or they have seen some sort of campaign about coming
forward about your mental health. Trying to give that support
to those people who are then supporting that person. So yeah,
I think the stigma for sure is it's really helping
to have people come forward. And also in other organizations
(56:17):
like Foundry, lots of other places are also making that
those spaces more easily accessible for people when they need
to help as well, because it's not always about just
talking about it. You also need to get that help
as well.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Well. That's great, And how do people reach the Crisis
Center of BC.
Speaker 6 (56:34):
A couple of different numbers. You can call the three ten, six,
seven eight nine, so that's the mental health support line.
We also answer the nine eight eight, which is a
national emergency suicide crisis line, and there's also the one
eight hundred suicide line, which is a BC specific as well,
So we answer all three of those phone calls. And
you can also text nine eight eight as well, which
(56:54):
is very useful for some younger for teens and even
some adults as well who might not I sarily enjoy
talking on the phone. And you can also text ninety
eight and begin that conversation and to have the whole
thing carried out over text or when you're comfortable, maybe
have them call you then from there, depending on what
support you need.
Speaker 5 (57:13):
And how that's going.
Speaker 1 (57:14):
Great, Thank you guys. So that was Paul Vincent and
Mark Shaheen from the Crisis Center of BC talking to
us about their youth education programs that they put into schools.
Speaker 10 (57:24):
Thank you, guys, Thank you for having us. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (57:27):
You're welcome, thank you, and we'll be right back folks.
Rethreading Madness is coming up to its sixth anniversary of
being on air. We produce an air each week out
of CFR one hundred point five FM on the unseated
traditional territory of the Squamish, Muscreham and Sliwey Tooth nations
around Vancouver. Bc RTM was one of the first radio
(57:47):
programs to focus on mental health issues here in Canada,
in an area swamped with statements from therapists rooted in
colonial ideas about mental health and trained in the DSM.
RTM works to ensure that the voices of those with
lived experience have agency and opportunity to define who they
are and what is true for them who listens to us.
(58:09):
Beyond those with lived experience, our audience includes their friends
and partners, along with therapists, counselors, and students of psychology.
Since twenty twenty two, all of our programs have been
uploaded to the Mental Health Radio Network and can be
downloaded from all podcast platforms. So if this show was
of interest to you, you might find the rest of
(58:29):
our programs informative as well. You can find them by
searching for Rethreading Madness. Wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Speaker 11 (58:41):
Every Sunday night, listen to What's So Funny, the show
that probes the minds, the brains, the psychees and the
brains of the people who make the funny. What's So
Funny Sunday night, eleven PM to midnight.
Speaker 1 (59:04):
And that's our show. My thanks to Carl Dakers, sticker artist,
Urie Rice from the Outsiders and Others Gallery here in Vancouver,
and Mark Sheehan and Paul Vincent from the Crisis Center
of BC for chatting with us about what they do.
And as always, our gratitude goes out to you for
joining us today. Stay safe out there. You've just listened
to Rethreading Madness, where we dare to change how we
(59:26):
think about mental health. We air live on Vancouver co
Op Radio CFRO one hundred point five FM every Tuesday
at five pm or online at co opradio dot org.
If you have questions or feedback about this program, I
want to share your story or have something to say
to us, we want to hear from you. You can
reach us by email Rethreading Madness at co opradio dot org.
(59:50):
This is Berndine Fox We'll be back next week. Until then,
will ever been fir
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