BtVS S1E11 Out of Mind, Out of Sight

Sometimes at school you can feel invisible, and then you use that invisibility to torture and mutilate the people who ignored you.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Should I col open just be a preview that we're
going to be talking about Pride, even though I don't
think this releases until like mid August, I.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Think so, like, sorry, guys, we're coming at you from
the past, and Pride is year round, so get excited
for our Pride stories.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Every day that we're gay is Pride, and that's on period.
And we're gay today.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm gay today, I was gay yesterday. Well, I mean
I am bisexual, So I'm like, I have to like
pick twelve hours of the day, so I usually pick
noon to midnight.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
So m hm. So if you're listening to this in
the PM, if days in the AM, you gotta posit.
You gotta wait until day hours.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, if you're in the PM, you're in the clear.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Recovering Gleek presents.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
A clear Buffy Podcast. Hi everyone, I'm Lena and I'm
Ian and welcome to What a Queer Buffy Podcast, And
we are genuinely very happy to have you in real time.
Today is the last day of Pride, June thirtieth. God
knows this is coming to you in the middle of

(01:12):
August because we are over it.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
I think it's coming out July twenty third. I'm trying
to look it.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Up right weed, Okay, well not like too far away,
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Well, then you're pride descended exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
It's still Pride, Pride July exactly exactly anyway. But so
we're going to talk to you about our prides today
before we talk about out of mind, out of sight.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, we're going to have a little celebratory pride and
review on July twenty third. So buck up, Lena, how
is your bride?

Speaker 2 (01:45):
My pride was so good. I had such a nice month.
I had such a nice month, lots of uh, lots
of celebrating, lots of tons of queer joy, tons of
I lived it up. I was having fun.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Heh. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
I went to a parade, I went to a market,
I went to a festival. I got a lot of stickers.
I got a lot of queer books. I went clubbing twice.
I went to a pool party. Honestly, I love to
shake ass, and I think that queer people who don't
like to shake ass, I think that's fine. But also

(02:21):
queer people shake ass like no one like. I go
to like straight clubs, and I'm like, what the fuck
am I doing here? You guys are boring is all helped.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Nothing is more miserable to me then going to a
straight club and it's just a bunch of people holding
a drink in one hand and looking around. No, No,
I'm like, what are you looking for?

Speaker 2 (02:42):
I barely drink at all.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
The joy of the music is in you. No, I
need to search for it.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Don't we Like there is a there is a child
that lives in you that wants to dance, you know
what I mean? Like, And there also is a they're
not they're two separate things to dance and the other one,
one wolf wants to I feel weird about making it

(03:08):
sexual after I said that a child, but I'm telling
you lives you and wants to grind, bump and no,
I get you. Yeah, and that's okay too.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, and that's okay too.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
I'm an adult. I contain multitudes. Hello, so and yeah.
I go to a street club and I'm like, the
grinding here is weird. You look ridiculous. And also it's
like the girlies are all awesome and I love I
love every woman who's ever lived. It's like they're straight
boyfriends being really rigid and weird, and I hate to

(03:44):
behold them. And the music is always weird.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Reduced them with that yeah music. At straight clubs, it's
like what this.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
I need to talk to a gay person. I went
to the club the other day and it was brat Night,
which was super random, which I loved that. So it
was like remixes and of like Charlie XCX all night
and it was so fun. They were also like Love
Island was playing on the wall and I was like,
my people, my people. It was so fun. It was

(04:15):
really really fun. Oh yeah, Ian, how is your Pride?

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Who was good? As I mentioned last week? Actually, I
like went to that Glee drag show that was fun.
My Pride weekend where I'm gonna take you on a journey. Okay,
So every like Pride weekend since moving to New York,
I have either been working all day or I have

(04:40):
been fully out of town for work. I just like
have never had a weekend where I could do anything.
And so then this year I was like, oh my gosh, hey,
I actually can do something, and then classic me, because
I could do something, I then put too much pressure
on making sure that I did something, and then I
just got depressed about it because I was like, I'm
not making the most of this. So oh but don't worry,

(05:01):
there's a happy ending. So anyways, Saturday was good. Saturday
I went our friend Andrew Maguire. He had he had
a camp party that was camp as in we were pretending.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
We were camping No I love.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
And we also watched Camp Rock to the Final Jam,
which I have so many thoughts on that movie. Anyways,
so that was nice. But then on Sunday, like the
day of Pride, I was just like I woke up
and was like, I have nothing to do today, and
I have no one to hang out with because like
all of my gay friends either like don't live in

(05:37):
New York City or like all have significant others that god, yeah,
they have no interest in like hanging out with friends anymore.
So I started the day I will be so transparent,
pretty depressed. I did know. I was like, I'm gonna
take charge of my day. I went. I did the
Queer Liberation March, which was nice. I like watched part

(05:59):
of the parade and then was like, so this is
actually like kind of a bummer, and then I left.
It was also like, I know there are people online
were like so nervous that the parade was going to
turn violent this year because of the way that everything
is going in the country, so at least where I
watched it, and maybe that's not true of other places,
but there was like no one there. Also was kind

(06:21):
of sad because there was like thirty people watching, and
that made me be like, what's happening? And then I
went and saw the closing performance of Stephen Sometimes Old
Friends on the Eye, and I cried so hard. I'm
not kidding. I was shaking to a point that I
was like, the poor woman next to me is gonna

(06:42):
like talk to an usher and be like, I think
something's going on with this. Oh, we didn't check on him,
I sincerely. I was like they were singing being Alive,
of course from the musical company, and I was like, like,
like con voles sang. And then I went to When

(07:03):
I did Friends, the musical parody. Longtime listeners will remember
when I first moved to the city three years ago
and I was Chandler Ban the guy who was Joey
just had his last show. Yes ah oh, he was
the last remaining member of the original cast, and so
he invited a bunch of like former cast members to go.
So I went to that performance, and that was really

(07:24):
fun and it was nice to see people again and
we all got to hang out and that was lovely
and I genuinely had like a great time, but I
was like, none of this was like specifically Pride related.
And then that ended, and then I was like, screw this,
I'm just gonna go by myself and make my own friends.
And I went out dancing and I went to a
club and I like just went to the dance floor

(07:49):
and was like, I am the tallest person here and
everyone can see me. But also I'll never see any
of these people again in my life. And I danced
and had a great time, and I made I like
joined a little group of like five that it turned
out that only two of them knew each other and
the rest of us were all similar. Both really there
alone and danced until three in the morning, and then
went home and had a grandle time.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
That's awesome, it was really nice. That's really cool. Hey,
I'm glad you did that. And speaking of I could
take a change out of your book too, that's really
I'm glad you did that.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
I was not to like too my own horn. I
was very proud.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah, I think that takes a lot of break see.
I think that's lovely.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
I sincerely was so close to just going home, and
then I was like, no, screw it, Like, who the
heck cares? The worst case scenario is that you feel
embarrassed in front of a bunch of strangers, like who cares?
And speaking of the two wolves inside of you, I
walked into that bar and the dude came up to
me and was talking to me, and we danced together
for like fifteen minutes, and then he was like, Okay,

(08:46):
do you want to go home with me? And I said,
I'm not here to feed the wolf that wants to
be a slut tonight. I'm here to feed the wolf
that wants to dance, my inner child that wants to dance.
And I said, I've been here for twenty minutes much love,
I am just keep dancing. Have a good night bye.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
To reach I have to dance longer than this.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah. And then as soon as he heard that I
was not interested in going home with him, he not
surprisingly immediately lost all interest in dancing. I was like, okay,
well you have a good night bye. Thing. Well, that
was the thing is I was feeling so lonely all weekend,
and I was like, frankly, going home with a stranger

(09:26):
will make me feel worse. It was like, what I'm
looking for in this moment is like a feeling of
friendship and community, and then finding this group of people
where we just like dance together and there was like
no underlying like anyone trying to hit on each other,
anyone like trying to you know, score it all. It
was just like we're all like dancing together and having
a good time. Was exactly what I needed, and it

(09:46):
was so nice. I'm so glad it ended up being
good in the end.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Good. I'm so glad nice.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
I keep meeting gay people who like want to hook
up and and I'm like, listen, there is a wolf
in me that wants to be of course, but also
like I want a friend, just want a friend, and
I don't want a friend where there's like underlying sexual tension,
Like I just want a friend.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Anyways, I'm at a point too where I meet people
who like I can certainly hook up with, but I'm like,
I feel a little more like I'm kind of in
a serious mood where like I like my brain and
body like do not kind of respond well to hooking
up and moving on, Like I really, it's not a

(10:38):
thing that works for me. I've tried, so I'm like,
you know, I'm trying to date more seriously, and I'm like,
oh my god, there is a wolf in me that
wants to be a slack right now. But I'm like,
for me, I want friends and I also want the
community of a partner as well. Yeah, honestly, this kind
of ties in, I think kind of well to this

(10:59):
episode the Lonely.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Honestly watching I was like, and I have been miss
Marcy before, and I have felt like miss Marcie before.
This is why when I was watching Old Friends, they
saying being alive and I sincerely they all sang, but
alone is alone, not alive, and I was like.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Call a medico. And also in this episode, when when
Cordelia says like, just because I'm in a room full
of people, doesn't I'm not alone? Like I can't remember
exactly what she said, but I was like, I literally
started snapping. I was like, oh my god, oh my god,

(11:35):
Like I told I felt that way too.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
You that's such a Lena. You're such a good podcast.
It's such a great segue. We should talk about this episode.
And I do agree. I think that everything we said
I so, I mean, I'll make some cut, make some cuts, yeah,
but I'll keep some of it in. So if you
want to join our Patreon to hear the whole unfiltered conversation,

(12:01):
oh my god, welcome, out of mind, out of sight,
out of mind, out of site. I do have some
slacks that I can share it if you want to
get into it.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Hey, oh yeah, it's time.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
So this is season on Up eleven. It came out
May nineteenth, nineteen ninety seven, right before I turned two
years old.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Really please birthday Please, birthday Please.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Birthday pace birthday hey, twelve years prior. It was written
by Joss Whedon along with Ashley Gable and Thomas A. Swideon.
Ashley Gable and Thomas A. Swiden previously co wrote I
Robot Jane together, and this is the last episode that
those two right. And it was directed by Reza Bade

(12:45):
And this is the only episode that they ever directed
of Buffy. You know, they they've directed other.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Stuff, so their first time trying directing.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
And they say they put it down.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Thanks for letting me try, Joss.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Actually, I think I'll let it go into something else. Okay,
here's just like some miscellaneous fun facts about this First
and foremost, this episode stars gay icon Clia Duval.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
Gay icon clear. I literally have written in my recap
gay icon Clia do.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Ball, Yes, holy shit, Hi. Clia KLi Duvall, and Sarah
Michelle Geller would go on to star co star in
The Grudge in two thousand and four is The Grudge,
although they never actually share a scene in this episode
because all of Clia's lines are pre recorded, so I
don't even know if they met during the filming of

(13:40):
this episode, and in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if
they didn't. Are they on screen together in The Grudge?
Because I'm gonna be so honest, I don't remember Clea
being in that movie.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
I actually haven't seen The Grudge. I know, I know.
It's like it was one of those movies that I
remember thinking about a lot as a tween, and so
it became really scary in my head. So it's one
of those like insurmountable horror movies to me, I would like.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
To watch it. I watched The Grudge around the time
that I was watching Buffy, and it was the same
where like I remember when the Grudge came out, yeah,
and I was and everyone was talking about it, and
I was like, that sounds so scary. And then I
actually watched it in high school and immediately was like,
that's Buffy Summers. Like, wait, Buffy Summers is in this movie.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
That's my mom.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
So that's my mom in there. I don't though, I've
only watched it the one time, and I don't remember
clee Ji Ball's part, So sorry girl. Okay, this is
the second episode to feature Harmony Kendle.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
But literally I saw her on screen and I was like,
Ian is gonna love this?

Speaker 1 (14:41):
Oh you know, I was throwing ass. I love you
Harmony Kendall. I seriously, it's so weird how important she
is to me as a character. It is the first
time she's given a name. Okay, in the Harvest, she's
just like blonde Cordett, and now her name is definitively Harmony.
At the end, when Marcy goes to that like school

(15:01):
for Invisible people that the FBI has, she opens the
manual and they're at there on a lesson about assassination
and infiltration, and then if you look at the text
under that heading, the text is just the lyrics to
Happiness as a Warm Gun by the Beatles. That's funny,
except that they changed the title lyric from Happiness is

(15:23):
a Warm Gun to joy is a Hot Revolver.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Oh okay, And I think we've mentioned.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
This before in the podcast. In fact, I'm pretty sure
it's in our Bennie in the listener feedback episode that
Buffy got re released on HD and they did like
a really piss poor job and everyone was really mad.
And now if you watch it, at least in the
United States on streaming, it's the original version and not
the re release because people are so mad about the

(15:51):
re release. One of the ways that the re release
was terrible is they trying to take it from this
square aspect ratio and make it wide screen, but they
did it in the laziest way possible, where they just
like either cut down the square so you're like missing
parts of the shot, or they extended the sides without

(16:11):
really taking into account what was being added into the shot.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
One of those cases was in this episode, in that
Invisible Kids class, they widened the shot of the book
pages flipping and you can see on the HD release
the hand that is.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
O Lord, you're fucking kidding me. There's a scene in
a re release You Are My Enemy.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
There is a scene in season two from the re
release where they widen a shot and you can fully
just see the crew standing on the slide.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Oh my god. Yeah, I've seen so many clips of
like just Creuse sitting on furniture of crew like holding
boom mics.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
Stupid, stupid, and like, I mean, to be fair, I
think Buffy is like the most egregious. Yeah, but that's
not uncommon because it's the same for like the Friends
when they try to change the aspect ratio of Friends,
and they would have stand ins because you know, like, yes,
Courtney Cox is off doing something else, but we need
someone for Lisa Cutro to talk to. And then now

(17:15):
in the re release they've widened the shots so you
can see that it's clearly not Courtney Cox. It's just
like some extra in a brown way.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
That's so funny. I mean to me, if I were
to be an HD re releaser, if that was my job,
I just don't know why people go for the aspect ratio.
Is that just something that like immediately dates, like uh,
like a Filmore TV show like I got I like
the aspect ratio. I don't think I would fuck with that.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
If it was made to be this, then I'm fint exactly.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
And the cameras and the blocking and everything in the
editing doesn't go with what you're going for. Maybe just
do away with that. Just color graded nicely.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
Yeah, just like try to make the visual crisper. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
I don't know. Anyways, you and I could all of
the world just with with just our podcast. I don't
know why people don't listen to us.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Hello, if the world governments were listening to our broadcasts.
There are three wolves we have world peace. There is
the wolf that wants to dance, the child like what
they wants to dance, that wants to be a slut,
and the wolf that wants to solve the world's problems. Specifically,
HT re releases Hello, HDV releases Hello.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
So I'm gonna do that bit all the way into
the ground.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Get ready, the three wolves, it's gonna be.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Watch out. I'm gonna annoy your ass. There are full wolves.
There are four wolves that live in me. You know
what they are? They don't know. This is kind of hard.
They are.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
It's like that improv exercise. It's like I'm going on
a vacation and I'm gonna pack a toothbrush. I'm gonna
pack Rachel's toothbrush, Jeremy shoes and Liijahs glasses and my yearbook.
It's like that.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Here it is. There's the wolf who lives in me,
who is the child who wants who I want was,
the wolf who wants to be a slut, the wolf
who wants to solve all the world's problems, specifically h
she re releases. And the fourth one is the wolf
that wants to run bits into the fucking ground and
annoy your ass.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
Hell yeah. So the scene where Angel is talking to
Giles in the library about like the research that Giles
is doing on the Slayer, Giles is reading a book
called Tales of Vishnu, which is not a real book,
but likely the reason that that's the book he's reading
is because Vishnu is a member of the Hindu Trinity,

(19:35):
and one of the beliefs about Vishnu is that they
have a universal form or I'm going to try my
best to say this word properly, and if I mispronounce it,
I apologize. Vishvarupa, which is the name of the universal
form and this universal form can is beyond the limits
of human sense and perception. In other words, humans cannot

(19:55):
see the universal form of Vishnu, and so you know,
like Giles was studying that in case what they were
dealing with was something like Vishni total. The scene of
Marcy watching her hand fade away in the flashback in
the classroom is based on a vivid dream that Joss
Whedon had as a child. Willa Rosenberg wears a Scooby
Doo T shirt and love someone in this main cast

(20:16):
went on to star is Daphne in the Scooby Doo movies.
I wonder who?

Speaker 2 (20:19):
I wonder who?

Speaker 1 (20:20):
Maybe the same one who was in the Grudge. Of
course I'm talking about the uh how do I word this?
The lines of Giles telling Buffy like when it's about like,
how am I supposed to fight an invisible person? And

(20:41):
he's like, maybe you should learn to listen? That was
not in the original script. If you watch the episode,
it's very clearly eighty yard in. I think they were like,
oh her listening did fight Marcy at the end is
a little unclear. So they had the coach and record
that so that it's set it up better. And the
final slacked is when Willow sees the two men in black,

(21:06):
the two government agents who are like watching Cordelia give
them a queen speech. It just shows the exact same
shot twice's it shows them and then will was like,
who's that? And then it shows them again and you
can see the same girl walk behind them twice because
it is the same shot. Here's some alternative titles. Tragically no,
actually one of them is incredible and it's not the
German this time. Yeah, Armenian invisible girl okay, cool, Yeah,

(21:31):
finish the invisible threat. Yeah, French missing okay, Hungarian losing
sight okay, okay. And then Spanish, but specifically in Latin America,
not in Spain. It is loca ian vesibre, which means
crazy and invisible.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
I love that and invisible America. You when when Buffy
says I didn't realize you were fucking crazy, I don't.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
Remember what she says, but yeah, you, I didn't realize
you were a thundering looney. I love Marcy.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
Crazy and inbhysical crazy.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
I didn't realize you were crazy and invisible. You know,
I felt that for you, but I didn't take that
into account.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
That's good. These alternative titles. I oh my god, I'm obsessed.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
They're fun. Well, that's it.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Nobody died in this episode.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Also, nobody died. Also, we keep forgetting to do the killing.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Snyder is pumped.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
We didn't do a kill count last week. Forever damn.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
That was my fault.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
No, I think it's both of our faults, both our farts.
I think it's both our faults. It just like keeps
escaping my mind. Yeah, that's something we're doing. We didn't
do one for puppet mass puppet show. That's what we did.
We did Jane puppet Show. Emily miss Ballerina got killed
rip and then Morgan, mister owner of sid all So

(23:00):
got killed Rip and then the demon in the Magician
kid also got killed. So that's also oh and Sid
Yeah and sid so four. So we're at thirty four. Emily, Morgan,
Mark and Sid got added a total count of thirty four.
There we go, and then there's no one to add
this episode. So there you go.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Great thirty four.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
All right, cool bing.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Bing, Okay, you ready for a ready we have no idea.
Previously on Buffy the Vampire's Layer, it's time for the
Spring dance, and Cordy is a shoe in for the
may Queen. She's the most popular girl in school after all,

(23:42):
but something unexplainable has started happening to cowards cronies. Her
date to the dance gets beat up with a bat
and Harmony gets thrown down the stairs by who you ask?
Girl Nobody saw? Turns out an invisible girl named Marcy
played by gay icon Clia Duval was so invisible at
school that she literally became invisible, and honestly, that probably

(24:05):
fucks with a person heavy because Marcy is on a
refrange spree and she wants you to look, listen, and learn.
Marcy traps Xander, Willow and Giles in a gaff Field
room and kidnaps Buffy and Cordelia and goes to cut
up Chort's face and then using Buffy's sligher sense, she
gets her. The FBI turns up and takes Marcy away

(24:26):
to a classroom full of other invisible teens to become
a team of assassins. I gather and that's what she
missed on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Harmony gets thrown
down thrown.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
That shot of her sitting behind Cordelia and then going whoo,
it is like, honestly kind of funny.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
She must like kicks the chest through three hundred style.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yes, it was. Honestly, Mercedes mcna really went for it.
I really appreciate it is Sparta. This is Sparta for real.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
Wow, okay, you think of out of mind, out of sight.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
I have to say I enjoyed this episode. I thought
this episode was fun. I saw someone's video essay about
it that they were like, frankly, we think this guy
was He was like, I think that, uh, the Pack
does this what this episode is trying to say better?
And I'm like, first of all, I think they're saying

(25:25):
two separate things, and second of all, I think that
this does it better. Hello, I know what I know. Well,
I think it's in terms of like popularity, Like they're
both like kind of involved in popularity. But I would
say that, yeah, sure they have something to do with popularity,
both of them, but this has way more to do

(25:46):
with like teen loneliness than popularity.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Like the Pack is about peer pressure exactly, and I
agree with you, and this is about teen loneliness.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah, And frankly I like this better than the Pack.
I think it's lovely. I think it is tons of fun.
I think it is like really interestingly paced. And I
think the idea of a girl that is so invisible
to the people around her that she mystically becomes invisible
and then starts trying to like kill the popular girls,

(26:17):
I think that's so funny. I think it's also like
a beautiful character study on Cordelia Hello, and I love
that and also like to learn about like how the
ways that Buffy feels lonely as well. I was like,
really into it. I really like this episode a lot.
But I think this episode is fairly divisive, is what
I gather from Buffy discourse. I know, yeah, which I mean,

(26:38):
that's okay. I can enjoy it and other people can
not enjoy it. I really genuinely enjoyed it, and that's
why I had to go first, because I enjoyed it
that much. Before you tell me that you don't like it,
which you can feel however you feel, That's what I mean.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
I respect everyone's opinion. I'm so surprised because I was like,
is this the best episode so far? Who absolutely love
this episode?

Speaker 2 (27:08):
So I'm so pleased to hear you say that liked it.
I was like it, am I standing alone in this?
So I'm glad you know me too.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
I don't If you didn't like this episode much love,
please like let us know why, because I'm so lost
us to like what people aren't liking about it. I
really loved this episode one like it's a fun monster
of the week, Like it's fun. You know, this unpopular
girl's out for revenge and she's invisible. But much more

(27:36):
than that, we get such insight into who Cordelia and
specifically the Buffy stuff, into who Buffy is. And I
love an episode we talked about this last week with
Nightmares that instead of instead of compromising characters to like

(27:59):
do a gimmick, it takes a gimmick and goes, what
could this gimmick teach us about our characters?

Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (28:05):
And I think it really fleshes those two girls out
and it starts to build what up to this point.
I guess up to this point it does exist, but
it's less clear, but it really sets up the parallel
paths of Buffy and Cordelia. Yes, and the Buffy at
her old school was Cordelia, Yeah, like she has lost

(28:28):
It is essentially like her becoming a Slayer was a
fall from grace. But like everything that Cordelia now has,
Buffy had, and there is a degree of like maybe
not jealousy, but at least like grief that she feels
when she sees Cordelia in the life that Cordelia leads
and knows that she would still have that life if

(28:49):
she didn't get this responsibility thrown on her. I And
just like, I think this episode, this is something I'd
love about Buffy is when they love to show and
not tell, and two they're like playing the long game, yeah,
and they just have these little moments of I mean,
the really obvious one is when Xander and Willa were

(29:13):
like reminiscing about something that happened when they were kids
and Buffy's like, what are you talking about? That one
I don't think is poorly written, but like it's very obvious,
like yeah, of course, yeah. But even stuff like they're
all sitting with Giles and then Xander is like, Okay, Willa,
do you want to come over for dinner tonight? And
will I was like, oh yeah, what are we having?
And then they like joke about Xander's parents and walk away,

(29:35):
not even taking into consideration, like maybe Buffy would want
to go to dinner. Does Buffy even know Xander's family
at all?

Speaker 2 (29:41):
And it's also like it's not that they don't like Buffy,
it's just they have with each other.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
They don't even take into consideration exactactly that they're like, well,
the two of us always have dinner together, so like
we're gonna have dinner together. It's not exactly what you said.
It's not anything against her. They just like don't even
consider she's so cool, she's so capable.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
Of course, like this twice a week. Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, I really really loved this episode. This was the
episode that I watched it, and I was so into
it that I immediately watched Proxy right after and then
finished Propcy Girl was like I have to keep going,
and then started watching when she was bad as well.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
And then you texted me and I accuse you of
being drunk.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yes, And then I texted Lena it was like two
in the morning.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, frankly in the middle of the night, after misspelling
the word talkies.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
And I said, sincerely, Buffy is the greatest TV show
ever made. And then she texted the next morning and said,
were you drunk? Last night loll and I said, no,
I was that.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Moved honestly, and then you said that, and I was like,
that made my heart really happy. So I'm glad you
watched on because I have watched on since and now
i've I've I've quelled my watch on Craving. I'm so
glad to hear you liked this episode. I'm seeing that

(31:02):
it's pretty divisive, so I would love to hear like
you said what people might not like about it, but
I just feel like it is so lovely, like these
three girls and they're like individual loneliness, but also how
they all connect to each other. I was like, oh
my god, at like so many points in my life
have I felt like these girls and like the isolation

(31:26):
that is growing up and like, you know, oh my god,
I was obsessed. I really genuinely I thought this episode
was lovely.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
And I think it is important that Cordelia was not
bullying Marcy. Yes, it was not that Marcy was bullied.
It was that Marcy was fully ignored. Like I'm not
saying not saying that one is better than the other
at all, no, but they are just completely different things.

(31:54):
Whereas the pack is like the pack is bullying these kids.
This was just like a girl that truly felt like
no one was aware that she existed at all, and
if she were to disappear, no one would notice. Then lo, behold,
she disappeared. No one noticed.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Can we talk about when Buffy? Oh, my god, sweet Buffy,
my literal the my mother and my child. I feel
so I feel such a kinship.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
To her, and one of you is Buffy's mom, and
one of you is Buffy's daughter.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Exactly, I don't. I feel such a like familiar likeness
to her and protectiveness of her. I can't even explain it.
She is okay, She goes up to she is a
kind of also, she's also kind of akin to this

(32:49):
her slayer sense. She's listening, she hears the giggling. She
goes to find this, you know, this giggling entity, and
then goes up to my Arcie's nest, so to speak,
and like finds her yearbook and then shows Xander and
will of the yearbook and they're like, are you kidding?
Like we have never heard of Marcy in our lives,

(33:11):
and then Buffy telling them that they both have signed
her yearbook, like they had four classes with her, like
That moment was so powerful to me because I'm like,
how many how many times have I had like Hags
in my yearbook and felt slided by that or felt
ignored or felt unseen by that? And how many times

(33:31):
have I also maybe done that to others and didn't
think twice about it?

Speaker 1 (33:35):
It?

Speaker 2 (33:35):
Really I was like, oh my god, what a powerful
thing to bring out her yearbook.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
It also makes me feel like the writers of the
show are a little more aware of what it's like
to be a kid, because one, it's a very funny joke,
but also I see this on TV shows where it's like,
and not a single person signed my yearbook, and I
just feel like, having been a teenager, that's not.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
Really you're mindlessly signing everyone exactly.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
I can't imagine a scenario where someone, even if it
was someone I didn't know, asked me to sign their
yearbook and I would say no, no, that would not happen.
And so for the writers to be like, no, a
bunch of people signed, and every single one of them
wrote have a good nothing exactly like that is brutal
and Buffy wording it as it's the kiss of death

(34:23):
like that is so true. It is someone writing have
a great summer in your yearbook, You're like, damn, you
don't know shit about me. You don't care about me
at all.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
I remember too, like in junior high, specifically going through
reading every single entry in my yearbook word for word,
and how like them, they didn't say anything like specific
about me. They didn't say yeada YadA YadA. So I'm like, okay,
so they hate me and they think I'm ugly, and
they like they It would be you know, what the hell?

Speaker 1 (34:56):
You know, when someone wrote have a great summer my yearbook,
I sincerely would be like I just should to mask them.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
I know. Well, I also I got a lot of
hags h A G s And I was like, actually,
I'm gonna block that fucking shit out. Yeah, I didn't think.
I don't think I got any hackis have.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
A kick ass summer.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
No, we were too Mormon. Sorry, I grew up in
rural Utah not so much. I remember even in college
getting into drag race. This is how like ingrained not
swearing is into my brain. You wouldn't think it now,
but in college getting into drag race. And then Rue

(35:36):
was saying at the end of the episode, if you
can't love yourself, how the hell you're gonna love somebody else?
Like that? That struck a chord with me. So I
wanted to like share a screen grab, but then I
was like, oh, what it says hell? Oh but it
says hell, I'm not gonna share it. I'm not gonna
share it anyway. Clean it all kind of eats in
this episode. This episode is really lovely. I also, I

(35:58):
think to learn more about Cordelia in this way, I
was like, Oh, even if this episode was piss poor,
I think, even even if you don't like this episode,
I think the stuff that we learned about Cordelia is like,
oh my god, uh this, I'm so grateful to learn
more about this girl.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
This is also pivotal moment in the series. Yeah, Cordelia
Chase going to the scoobies and asking them for help. Yeah,
like this is this is the moment when Cordelia transitions
from being the one liner character that's just like in
the bathroom, making us laugh in the bathroom, part of

(36:39):
me in the background, in the bathroom. Girl, She's always
in the bathroom, bathroom. No, it is the moment that
she goes from being like as much as I love
this stereotype and thinking that the archetype, I should say,
she goes from being the archetypal like main girl character
in the background and to actually starting to have more

(37:01):
dimensions and interacting with our main characters in a substantial way. Yeah,
I love love her going to the Scoobies for help.
I especially love we learned so many like you're saying,
the things we learned about Cordelia in this episode are
so important. The most obvious is like she feels lonely,

(37:23):
and even in a crowd of people, she can feel lonely,
and yet she still keeps all those people around her
because she'd rather be alone in a group than alone
by herself. And I think all that is really beautiful.
But we even learned stuff like she takes school seriously
to a degree she is like talking to their English
teacher trying to get help on her own. She also
is smarter than she lets on one her taking school seriously,

(37:46):
but two she goes to the Scoobies for help because
she's like, I have picked up on the fact that
you're always around when weird stuff is going on, Buffy,
and you've seem very capable and personally. I was hoping
that you were secretly in a gang. But like she
just like as much as she's pretends to be this
like DITSI doesn't really care about anything. She is perceptive
and she's clocking things that are happening around her totally,

(38:10):
and it's still it doesn't go fully the other way
where it's like it's all in act. Like, No, she's
still a self centered she still is oblivious to the
feelings of other people. We still have when she asks
them for help. There's the moments of like, oh my gosh,
what is Giles ask her about, like if she wants

(38:33):
to come back to the library and she's like, oh, no,
I'm not a loser.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
She doesn't say it to be mean, she's so sincene
well life, yeah, something like that, and she's, oh, oh
it's she walks into the library I have written down
and Jiala says, Cordelia, I don't remember seeing you here before,
and she goes, oh, no, I have a life and
it's not supposed to be a dig. She is sincerely like, well,
this is a misunderstanding. I wouldn't be in here because

(38:58):
I'm yeah, exactly. It's it does a very good job
of showing she has more depth than we thought, but
that she all of the like self centered stuff is
not fully an act. She is also just that way.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
She's genuinely self centered. But it's also like I think
she's like also not as aware of how she is
like coming off to other people. I think she's genuinely honest.
She's like, why why the fuck would I come here?
I don't I have a life fully sincerely. I loved that.
I Oh my god, I I hesitate to bring this

(39:38):
up now because I would rather like have like bullet
points and like proof not proof, but like case, I'm
forming a case. But I have seen online that people
like to view her as an autistic character, and I
like moments like that. I love where it's like, you know,
she is not like moments like she les buffy, but

(40:01):
she also just like is sincerely, like you know, she's
just telling she's just and she's like also like just
saying what she's seeing. She's perceptive, she notices patterns. She
is like, you know, she has a role to fulfill.
She is may queen. She has to be crowned, like
that's the fucking rules. And I'm like, I love that
about Cordelia. So I love to view her this way

(40:23):
and we can keep like talking about that more. And
if people hate that, I hear you.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
That's why.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
That's why I wanted to I'm going to court to
tell the audience, but I mean, I like to view
her this way. And I think moment's in this episode too,
where she is like sincerely being true, like she is
like speaking her truth, like I'm not gonna come here.
I have a life. I I love it. And also
the moment where oh my god, I'm jumping all around

(40:53):
because I just love Corey. It's so bad at the
end where her friends are back in school and things
are things are back to normal, and she goes and
sees the scoopies and she's like, hey, guys, and then
the guy he's like, why the fuck would you hang
out with those losers? And she's like, oh, okay, I
guess that. Yeah, why the hell would I do that.

(41:14):
I'm not gonna do that. Like to see the oh
my god, like the spark in her eye where she like,
those are the people like Buffy really saved her ass
and like she sees like maybe a potential friendship with
these people. To jump back back around the moment too,
where Buffy has revealed kind of in passing to other
people that she was may Queen, that she was Cordelia

(41:37):
at her old school, and then to see Cordelia's heart
in I'm only all the time, I can be in
a room full of people and feel so alone, Like you, like,
you can't take that feeling away from me. I feel
that all the time. And she's like, well, you're so
Buffy says, you're so obsessed with being popular, and she's like, well, yeah,
wouldn't you rather be alone with other people around. I

(42:00):
can't even remember exactly what she says, but it just,
oh my god, it hit so hard. I literally groaned
and started snapping. I was just so moved by what
she said, Like, how many times in my life have
I like gone somewhere felt so lonely? But at least
I went somewhere and was like with other people, because like,
loneliness plus isolation would fuck with your head. And then

(42:25):
maybe I turn invisible and maybe.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
I try and kill people.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Yeah, I'm trying to scale back on the murderous of
course stuff that I say. People get mad at that,
do they? Well, no, not so much.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
You know me.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
No. I saw on the TikTok people were mad that
I was going off on Xander.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Oh, that you should kill Xander.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Yeah, that's where they were like, that's tired. And I
was like, okay, but I'm being silly.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
You are were being silly, and I think that they
were overreaching, But that was that was less that you
said you wanted to kill someone and more that I
think it's understandable in the last few years. It is,
you know, the pendulum swings both ways. Where the pendulum
swung very anti Xander. Yeah, and now long time every thing,
Yeah there are they're now like, Okay, I'm actually which

(43:16):
this is why I have like been a Xander defender
of this podcast, where it's like I'm not saying that
like I love everything Xander does, but like I feel
like the Xander hate is to a degree that it's
like this is a nuanced character that we are purposely
ignoring the nuance of, Like we're ignoring any depth he
has because we just want to because he has like

(43:37):
these things that genuinely do really suck, and we are
maximizing those things and then completely disregarding anything else about Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Totally, yeah, and I totally hear that, and I think
that's good too, because I am I definitely live in
the camp of Xander is not my guy, So I
think it's good for us to have a new, more
nuanced conversation about it. Any You know me, I'm just
sensitive and I'm trying to either way, there are wolves
that live in me, and I'm trying to tone down
the murderous one.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
Hell yeah, gul Do you have a favorite Cordy moment?
Do I have a favorite Cordy moment? I mean, my
favorite Cordy moment is that scene in the library. I
think that scene is really really excellent. Also, this episode
is genuinely frightening, which I appreciate.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
Yeah, oh my god, it's really scary.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
The fact that Marcy's plan is to rip apart Cordelia's
face so that she will be and the way that
Marcy talks about it, where she's like, well, you should
be so lucky, Like no one will ever forget your face.
Children will dream about you, you know, your classmates, the
vision of you of his a make queen and something

(44:52):
they're going to take into their graves, like they make
Marcy so evil and twisted. It's oh, really fun and
watch frankly and the image of Cordelia in her May
Queen dress tied to the may Queen throne so that
Marcy can cut her up. I just like, I love
when Buffy does horror movie stuff like that. I think
it's really fun too. My favorite Quarity moment, oh is

(45:16):
when they're talking about Merchant eventicse we're talking about Shylock.
Oh yeah, and she's talking about like, well, I think
Shylock is just like pretty self involved, like me me me, me, me,
me me, just kind of ignoring the pain of other people,
Like this time I sort of ran over this girl
on her bike. It was the most traumatizing event of
my life. And she's trying to make it about her leg,

(45:36):
like my pain meant nothing.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Yeah, I think that, I know, I really honestly, I
liked that moment so much. I was like, a like
talking about Merchant Eventice here, I was like, I like
that it has something I can tell we're gonna work.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Like thematically ties into the episode.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
Yeah, and like, you know, while I don't agree with
her on her views on the Merchant of Venice, I
can see that, but her English teacher is genuinely so
excited to talk with her, and that even if she
has weird, fucked up views on the Merchant of Venice,
like at least she she knows it and has an
opinion about it. And I was like, I bet she's

(46:14):
just such a joy to have in class. Genuinely, I
was like, Oh my god. And I could see too,
the English teacher and her like having like a lovely,
like helpful relationship. I was like, oh my god. Cordially, yeah,
there's a wolf in me who needs to be loved
and accepted by my English teacher. And I love that
about Oh, she's got that too.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Oh. I think every queer person in the world I
need my English teacher to like me, so I do.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
Also, I love the queer people who have that relationship
with their math teacher. I didn't have that.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
I had a tumultuous relationship with my math teachers. It
was my English teachers that I was obsessed with.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Yeah. I had a few Math teachers that I got
along with, but most of them it was either antagonistic
or most are just apathetic. I want to highlight you
talking about the the use of the Shylock quote, which
I didn't take too long to really think about watching
the episode. But you are so correct. Marcy is Shylock. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
She's trying to get a pound of flush.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Yeah, she's trying to get a pound of flush. And
in the same way that, like, you watch Merchant of
Venice and you're like, Okay, so Shylock is doing this
really like frankly fucked up thing where he's like, I
want to literally cut a pound of skin off of
you if you don't pay me back. But then when
you really look at the anti Semitism that he subjected
to and what's going on in his life, and you know,

(47:45):
his daughter being taken, I mean his daughter like fully
rejecting him. Then although you're still like what you're doing
is fucked up, I also empathize with you and understand
what drove you to this point exactly. You're so correct,
Marcy is Shylock. At the end of the day, what
she wants to do is fucked up, And yet I
understand everything that drove her to want to do this

(48:07):
thing from the way that society treated her.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Yeah, and I mean, Marcial of Venice is.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
Such a a problem play.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
It is. It's a problem play, and people feel like
so many different ways about marchand Venice. Like, I feel
like every person you talk to will have like a
different take on it, and I think, like it has
so much to say about I love I love Marchial
of Venice. I do. It's a problem play.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
I mean, we also did see maybe the world's one
of the world's best productions Helloa.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
Ex Professional twenty nineteen. I'll shout it out.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
I think so twenty eighteen, Yes, twenty eighteen, because I
always forget I just like talk about Merchant of Venice,
but I always forget that, Like one of the big
issues with Merchant of Venice is like it ends with
romantic comedy, yes, or that, like and Shylock has lost
his and now he's being forced to convert to Christianity

(49:03):
and lose his religions heritage, and now we're gonna have
a little funny moment about these two Christian couples and
how they were secretly tricking each other by dressing up
as a man and ha ha ha ha ha ha,
And like the Shatlock stuff just gets brushed out of
the rug, and I forget that that happens because that
production was so good for those of you who didn't

(49:25):
for for all of you, because I don't any of
you saw this.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
He did shout the hell out I want to.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
It was directed in a way where that you know,
the script was the script, and the final scene with
the whole like oh I found the ring and oh
my gosh, you were actually the lawyer in hahaha, was
all playing out on stage on a lower level of
the stage, and then on an upper level of the
stage you were watching Shylock get baptized. And Shylock getting

(49:56):
baptized was like he was very up said about it.
He was very like beside himself. And then his daughter
Jessica like has a moment where she can like essentially
realizes that the baptism is happening now and then breaks
away and starts of crying and praying in Hebrew, and
the like rom com scene is playing out, but instead

(50:19):
of it being like an actual comedy, it then becomes
comedically ironic, where it's like these two couples are so
oblivious to what they have done to this man and
his family that they're just like getting their laughs in
and like, oh, all's well, that ends well, ha ha ha.
Meanwhile we are watching the consequences of their actions play

(50:41):
out in real time while they remain oblivious to them.
It was very good.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Yeah, honestly I saw that and I was like, oh
my god, I have not been thinking deep enough about
the Merchant of Ennis. It really it was. It was
very effective. But yeah, I think starting the episode with that,
I think it was just it set me off. I
was like, I know this is going to be It's
going to be a powerful a problem play in and

(51:07):
of itself.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
And I do like that Marcy's fucked up. Like, I
think the episode does a good job. It could have
very easily been like Marcie's just the victim and she
just wants to be understood. But I like that the episode.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
And gives her a hug and it's all saved.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
Yeah, exactly, But I like that the episode was like, no,
Marcie is a victim, but then she also snapped yeah,
and is now like genuinely a danger.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
Alone by herself, invisible, can't see herself in the mirror,
six months in the ceiling of the school, Like that
can't be good for a person. Yeah, I'm glad she
can use her her new found powers.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
For you think that they're going to be used for good?

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Oh, I immediately backtracked. I didn't say a word.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
I don't think that's all.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
It's it somewhere, I will say.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
I talked during Teacher's Pet about how I was frustrated
that so many this season one episodes end on cliffhangers
that never amount to anything, and this is another one.
We never see Marcia again. Yes, but acually.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Invisible, I got you freaking good.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
But I have been thinking more about that, and I
like it more now because this whole season is an
homage to these like B horror movies sci fi movies
of the like fifty sixties, and so many of those
movies ended with like one last scare, with like the

(52:50):
monster isn't defeated, and then a lot of them had
a sequels, a lot of them didn't. It just like
was the way to end the movie. Ye, so I
actually en reach respectum, like, Okay, it's kind of fun
because I feel like it's on purpose.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
I also think that that's a horror movie tactic in
the way that like in this theater, like it could
come to you as well, like watch your phone.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
If you don't know that was a little shop of
horror's reference.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
But yeah, I just mean like I think it's a
way to like kind of leave the audience with a
feeling of like, oh, this is an unfinished story. Maybe
I'm going to find some eggs under my desk, Like
you know, I think it's just like kind of leaves
you a little uneasy, less visible.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Marci is going to rock up to my house and
assassinate me.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Hey who knows? Hey, who knows? Rock up? I love that.
But yeah, I mean I'm not so worried about it
not going anywhere because I I, like you just said,
it's like a horror movie trope and I dig that
kind of stuff. Yes, and I like a sequel as
much as anyone. But you know what we have to mention?

Speaker 1 (53:56):
What do we have to mention?

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Angel's back back back again.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
Angel is Oh yeah, first time since his titular episode.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Since his titular episode, and he saves the day. Thank god.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
I really do like see Buffy at fun I like
that too, all working with him in secret.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
Yeah, and like Giles and the Scoobies are like, we
can't tell.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
Her like she is like it was a janitor who
saved that.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Yeah, And honestly, I couldn't imagine all that shit going
down and then also hearing that like Angel was in
the mix, I feel like I would be like I'd
feel some type of way about it. So I thought
it was funny and I loved seeing Giles meet him
for the first time. I was like, oh my god,
he's obsessed. Like has Giles ever like hung out with

(54:39):
a with a vampire before? I'm right, probably not, but
he spent his entire life, his entire lineage is so
obsessed with vampires, and like only in like an antagonistic way.
So I'm like, I wonder if this is kind of
a really exciting moment for him, like even as like
an intellectual to like get to see that Angel can't

(55:00):
see himself in the reflection of the class like Angel
like kind of telling him some things and like giving
him an inn. I bet, oh my god, I bet
his fangirl heart was a fucking blaze. I was like,
I can tell Giles is pumped as shit to be
talking to Angel. I was like, okay, and I'm sure, like, okay,
what don't you kiss?

Speaker 1 (55:22):
It'd be less of an age gap, not much, but
still less. And I bet the Watcher's counsel is very
anti fraatenrization.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
Oh my god, totally.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
So like any vampire that Giles has ever come across,
it's like, you got to kill him right away. We're
not here to study, we're here to kill. And so
for I agree, I think probably Angel, where it's like okay,
well this one, you know, there's proof that he's different.
I agree. I think it was probably very exciting.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Yeah, hey, especially to see him see he can't seem
like Angel in the glass. I was like, oh my god,
he Oh my god, I bet his journal, Oh my god.
His journal entry after that was oh my god. Crazy.
He was pumped.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Also, Marcy's so crazy for trying to gast him.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
Oh I know that was Marcy. Oh we have to
have a chat. That was crazy.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
The Cordelia stuff is obviously evil and deranged, but like
she had a vendetta against Cordelia.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Yeah, it's like why the librarian sister. You don't know him.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
See he got here after you were invisible. He's got
no dog in this fight. He has no wolf in
him that hates Marcy hasn't met you.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Yeah, and even Xander and Willow I was like, is
it I you know, I know, it's just that they
are preppy to what's going on and trying to keep
them away, but to literally like turn on the gap.
It was crazy.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
But I do think she just like Xander and willow Fully.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
They both throw.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
It was the kiss of death, but not for her,
for them. She said, everyone who wrote hags, that's actually
a philosophy that I do.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Oh my god, No, totally.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
If you wrote hags, you have to die. I have
to kill you all.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Sorry, Sorry, I have a list. No I don't. That's
a joke.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
It's not a joke for me.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
I do.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
And I'm coming for you, and I'm coming for you
the Marcie flashbacks. As I said, I appreciate that Marcy
was not bullied, that she was just ignored. That scene
of her in the bathroom trying to join in on
the conversation with the Cordetts and then fully ignoring her,
and then Cordelia repeating the joke that Marcy said and

(57:39):
everyone laughing. I was like, I have I lived this,
I have lived this exact scenario.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
I mean, honestly, Marcy's better than me, because I'm one
of those people where I'll say something and people ignore
it and then I mean, I mean, Marcy's in a
different situation than me, but people would be like, wait,
what did you say? And I'll go nothing, it doesn't matter.
I like become a drama queen about it, and I
like hate when other people do that. I don't know
why I do it, Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
But yeah, yeah, well Mercy. No one even asked. She
never spoke and then cordially said it I want to.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
She thought she came up with it.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
I went to camp one time with a friend of
mine and he used to do that ship or I
would say something. I would like say it to him
and then he would repeat it to everyone and they
would laugh. But he would not credit me. He would
just like act like he was came up with it.
And I was like, sincerely, I'm gonna punch you in
the face. Oh my gosh. I everyone need to stop complaining.

(58:43):
I'm sorry, this is I love. It's just me complaining.
I feel like to listen to I'm gonna go full
Marcy after this episode. Actually, I'm gonna start hunting people.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
There's that is a complainer.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Oh, there's majorly a wolf in me that there is
a complainer, and I the main one, the main one.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
When I was in high school, I remember I had
a good friend in my French class, and she was
just like really quiet but really funny, really funny. So
she would say things and I would laugh my ass off,
and a part of me was like, I have to
say this louder so other people hear it. And then
people would laugh and I'd be like, Alison said that. No,

(59:25):
it wasn't me, you said that, So I.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
Try to do it.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
Is like, so, it's such an intense experience to have
someone say something so damn funny. I gotta share it.
I gotta share it with the world. Call me a plagiarizer,
but no, God, damn, I have to let the people know.

Speaker 1 (59:43):
You gotta get the word out.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
I'm just loud.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
I'm kind of loud. I'm pro spreading the joy around.
But you got a credit where the joy came from.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
No totally, but then.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Like, hell, yeah, now more people know that Alison's funny exactly. Yeah. No,
those are two separate things. And I think what you
did is what you should do.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
You atta, because also, like these quiet, funny people, they
need they need the louder a lotder boost.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Yeah, they need a ltder boost.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Hey, okay, what else do we have to say about
this episode?

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
That's the thing. And this is why the wolf that
loves to complain keeps getting fed is because I'm like this,
that's so perfect. I'm kind of just like it's amazing,
and I said that it's amazing. I We've already mentioned it,
but the reveal that Buffy was May Queen at her
old school is fantastic. It's very well done. Xander in

(01:00:35):
a willow trying to like trash talk Cordelia and like
what kind of shallow person would want to be May Queen?
And then Buffy's like, I was, ah, so good. I
just think we are peeling back layers to these characters
that are going to continue to be peeled back as
the show continues on. I just really enjoyed it that

(01:00:57):
I just have.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
To volley it and say it again because I loved it.
Is like that Buffy was the quarity of her old
school and how like becoming the Slayer has been like
kind of like a social fall from grace and how
that feels like a grief and also a sadness to her,
and how even like Cordelia being mean to Buffy is
like so hurtful where it's like, you know, we don't

(01:01:22):
know too much about Buffy from her last school, but
like how much of this is even like maybe even
a metaphor for like the feeling the bad feeling she
even has for herself. Like I just think it's so
powerful to learn more about Buffy and how she was
on the cheerleading squad she was really popular, and how
becoming this slayer has like taken her identity from her, yeah,

(01:01:45):
and how she has to like come to terms with
that and like what that that's what that's doing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
To her, Yeah, which is also like it makes sense
why she was so angry in the first episode. It
wasn't just I got kicked out of school, it was
the anger started long before that, and it's like, yeah,
everything about my identity has been stolen from me because
of this.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Yeah, and yet.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
She's too good a person. She keeps doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Yeah, and even like Xander and Willow like making fun
of Cordelia and how that is like also kind of
hurting her and making her feel more isolated from her
friends and her friends like barely know her and she's
not She's like in the group, but she's not of
the group, and like how like she like doesn't really
have many true friends, like of course Willow and Xander

(01:02:32):
are her true friends, but like they don't understand her
or get her in the way that she needs to
be understood and got in this episode.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
And they have like ten years of history that you'll
never exactly oh oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
And she can never she can never be a part
of that. That's something that's so interesting too, about like
going to a new school, where it's like I will
never catch up on all this lore. I'll never catch
up on like this the depth of y'ell's friendship, like
even if I try, but also you have to keep going,
you know, powerful, powerful stuff. I really really really enjoy

(01:03:08):
this episode, and I think it's I think it is
so different. I cannot even deal with like someone come
bearing it to the pack because they feel so different.
They feel so different.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
They very much agree. They feel like they're talking about
extremely No part of the pack was it was like
Exander's doing this because he's so lonely.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
No, it's like, no, he is literally possessed right now. Yeah,
And it's also it's peer pressure. It's not peer.

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
Pressure exactly, which like obviously peer pressure stems from like
you want to fit in, but just it feels they
feel like very separate.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
Yeah, and even like fitting in and being understood and
like feeling closeness and understanding and not loneliness, Like, oh
my god, those are they are two separate things. Sometimes
they hold.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Hands, Sometimes they are separate things.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Sometimes they guess, but they're separate.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
I have too, just like random thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
Okay, tell me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
One is is the Brons having another fumigation party. I
realize they're having the dance at the prom at the
dance to the Bronze that is mentioned, But they show
us an establishing.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
The coffee shop in town. It's not only a bar
in town, it's also their events center.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Yeah, seriously, it's their civic center. Like, goodness sakes, don't
you have a gym?

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
Don't have a gym.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
But they give us an establishing shot of the outside
of the Bronze and it has a little chalkboard that
says fumigation party, and like we just had one of
these episode seven. It's only episode eleven.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
The estah is just like not they're not up to
date on their signage. I guess the manager is going
to be pissed.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
Yeah, goodness sakes, he's like that when you wrote that
sign Darla was still alive, it should be erased by
now she is long turned to dust. Come on, Arla,
I miss you. Also. My other thought is I love
you Cordelia Chase. I love to learn more about her
and find out that she is deeper than we thought.

(01:05:04):
But then more than that, I love to find out
that she is still shallow. Yeah, and her finding Buffy
in the library and like Buffy is in there with
Xander Willow and the librarian. Yeah, and they're all like, so, buddy, buddy,
and they all together.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
Are like feet up on the desk and they're kiki yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
And then they're all like, oh my gosh, it's an
invisible girl, and they like know all this shit. And
Cordelia literally could not care less. She does not ask
a single question. She's so just like, Okay, I guess
you guys all hang out with the librarian and like,
no supernatural stuff, that's fine. Can you help me? I
just think that's so funny, Like she no curiosity whatsoever.

(01:05:49):
All she's concerned about is will you guys be able
to save me? I think that's very funny.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
It's very funny these episodes that I feel like sometimes
people are like I could take her leave these episodes,
and maybe you can, like personally, but I'm so grateful
that it exists to get to know Buffy Moore, to
get to know Cordelia more. Do you even get to
know like Xander and willowmore to see their the depth
of their friendship? Like, I god, I think this episode
is lovely?

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
No, I agree? Hell yeah? And that's out of Mind
out of Site?

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
The worst part best?

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
What's your worst part of out of Mind? Out a Site?

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
I think this episode is awesome if I had to
give it a worst part, Like I don't know the
clear adr that yeah that Giles has, but I don't know.
I sure, hell yeah, that's the worst part of the
episode of.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
The worst part, the worst part?

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
What's your worst part?

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
I really had to think about it, but I do
have one, but it's because I wrote it beforehand, so
like I already know what it is, which is at
the end, Marcy does a few things that I'm like,
Marcy just does stuff that's against her own best interest
so that she can be defeated, which one of them

(01:07:10):
is she monologues towards Cordy for literally my fucking but
I was like, cut her face up like what are
you doing? Cut her face up? It just like she
spends so long, and she even says like doing She
even says like, well, we better get started. I don't
want the anesthetic to wear off. And then like starts
talking for another ninety seconds, and I'm like, girl, let's

(01:07:31):
start moving.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
I know what you're saying, but like, let's like put
ourselves in Marcy's shoes for a second. This girl was
so ignored by her friends and also probably her family
for however long fifteen years and then she has been
straight up ignored so hard that she went invisible. She
probably hasn't spoken to another person.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
Someone gonna hear me, Hey, she has a.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
Captive ass audience. Yeah, I think I would monologue too,
but I hear what you're saying, like get get to stepping.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
My other thing is one you're literally invisible. So like
once you punch Buffy, and Buffy then like falls in
is a way, then start carving up Cordy again, like
why do you then like run away Buffy can't see you.
And then when Buffy knocks the curtain onto her, why
would she not immediately rip the curtain off, Like the

(01:08:23):
curtain gets falls on her and she's like, oh, well,
I'm caught. I would just immediately tear it off and run.
This is like, nit, I don't actually care.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
I know you don't actually care, but I am gonna
say she is also just the teen girl I would.
I'd be down for the count for months.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Yeah, I can't take a bunch, and she does. She
does go oh my jaw yea hey, hey, all right.
Now we're adding a news segment, which is we're gonna
talk about.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
The gayest the episode.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
Gay part of the episode, ode Lena, what's the gayest
part of the Easy Easy is the same one I have?

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
Well? Mine is literally Giles wants to kiss Angel on
the mouth. There was tension there. Hey for real, I
was like, Giles is so excited to talk to this
guy for one reason or another, but it's turning sensual
and I really dug it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
It was awesome. Hell yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
What's the gayest part of the gaze bar the episode?
To you?

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
My guest part is gay icon of the week? Oh
my god, the episode is the one of the episode.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
I love this segment. Cordelia being obsessed with their English teacher.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
Hey, hell yeah too.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
Hell y'all all right, fun app I hope you'll like it.
If you don't, let.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
Us know well if you don't, or if you do,
or if you have whatever thoughts, send them to us.
A recovering gig dot com. You can find our Instagram
at RG Presents on score podcast that's our TikTok as well. Yeah,
you can find our patre on patro dot com. Slush
are covering gleek, find videos, find bonus episodes. If you're
best friend on the podcast, you also get a special

(01:10:12):
shout out which will be here. Hi, It's me, Thank
you too, m J Lissai and Jan and l Olivia
or excided, Jack Hammick carros A, lisbon To Prestovis he did,
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Jamie Rachel, Allison, meg And Andrey Megan, Alexandra Colly, Chamanava, Jayden,
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(01:10:34):
and BBC Patras, Joe Moby's Goats Page, I N club Anaby, Christin,
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B B B L A A and I hate Animal
Michelle Jack and I Am, Charlie Kelsey Thomas Cho, Choe
Brady and Michael Katie Lisby. Okay, bye, and tune in

(01:10:58):
next week for can you Believe this season? In one
finale Prophecy Girl.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
Oh my god, are y'all excited?

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
You guys? I rewatched it a few days ago and
I was so moved that Lena thought I was drunk.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
I thought he was drunk.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
It's a very good so buckle up, you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:11:17):
I love this show. It also is like Buffy only
gets more and more and more and more complicated, which
I think is a good thing and a thing I
love about it. But there's something so lovely about like
this season. I really have gained such a beautiful appreciation,

(01:11:39):
like an intense appreciation for I think it's so beautiful
and like, oh my god, love you guys. Thank you
so much for being here. Have a lovely rest of
your week, and keep on saying, here is a kiss
on your forehead if you accept it. Bye bye.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
Thank you for listening. Follow us at Covering Gleek Underscore podcast.
Email us at Recovering Gleek at giba dot com. Join
our Patreon patreon dot com, slash recovering gleek, rate and
review us and tell your friends please, what was the
moment of your life when you felt the most like
Marcy and like, if you want to make it sad,
you can. Yeah, I realized as I asked it. I

(01:12:20):
was like, that could be like a mega.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
Downer, Yeah, it could be. I remember there was this
kid that I had a crush on and I wrote
our names on like I was a little vandall and
I wrote our names on the like stall door, like
Lena plus what's his face?

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
Redacted?

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Yeah, redacted? And then I was on the playground with
a girl that I like kind of you know, I
like knew I knew her, like we really kind of friends.
And we were talking about that guy and I was like,
well did you see that it said Lena plus what's
his face on the stall door? And she went Lena

(01:13:00):
And I said, isn't that so sad? I literally was like, no.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
One wasted by your own bitrd I know.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
And I watched myself into that one too. That is
so crazy because I was trying to like, is so crazy,
like someone in the school chips us.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
You should be together for her to go.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
Oh my god. I literally it humbled my ass bad.
You have never recovered. I've never recovered