BtVS S1E7 Angel

It's a big one! Buffy discovers the mysterious older man she's been dating has a big secret, and an ex girlfriend who wants to kill her. First love man.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On Saturday. I went to a gay bar. I went
to cubby Hole in Greenwich Village. Maybe heard of it.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Oh I missed her.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Oh my god, my friend invited me.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
I missed her.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
I did. I walked out. I put my hand on
the door and I said, MANA miss you. I do,
and then she burst into tears. Yeah, I'm sure, I
love but my friend invited me. It was like me,
it was me and my friend and then all of
her friends who I've never met in my life, and
literally she kept introducing me to everyone by going, this

(00:34):
is my friend I and we met an improv class
and he has a Glee podcast, which like, it's not
a Glee podcast anymore. But that was splitting Harris. I
wasn't gonna shoot her down, but first and foremost two
of her friends were like, wait, what Glee podcast? And
I said Recovering Gleek and I said, oh, I've listened
to that, and I said that's me. And then these

(00:57):
other two random women who were not even in our group,
just we're like, oh, a Glee podcast and started talking
and we're chatting with me about it, and then one
of them said I'm gonna listen, and you know, lesbians
are the most dedicated fan base out there, so we're
really gonna ride for your podcast. So if you cubby

(01:18):
hole girls are out there listening, yeah, we're happy to
have you. Welcome to the part.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
And if you are looking for a wife, I know
Ali who is wife.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Of Ball Recovering Gleek presents.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
A clear Buffy podcast. Hi. My name is Lena. I'm
Ian and welcome to Slay, a Queer Buffy podcast. We're
happy to have you, especially the lesbians. Yes, we love
the lesbians. The l's first for you all.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
That's okay. We don't I mean like, we don't not
need to get into this. It's just random. There is
this push because the entire world is going conservative. No, yeah,
which pisses me off, but it double pisses me off.
And it's queer people and I'm like, they don't like you,
like they don't like you, and there's this push to
make it GLBT again. Oh my god, that literally it

(02:25):
like makes my blood boil. Learn your queer history. Yeah.
The reason the the L is first for a reason,
As you said, Yeah, the reason there weren't more deaths
in the AIDS crisis is literally because.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Of us lesbian stepped up.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, yeah, they earned their spot as the first letter
in that acronym. Eh.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
That like gives me chills in the really gross way.
I don't understand that.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
I have a I have a picture. Maybe maybe we'll
cut this out. I don't know. I have a picture
saved on my phone of all of these gay men
in the I think it's like early nineties, and they're
holding up hosters and they say like cocksuckers for carpet lunchers. Yes,
I love that, and like fags love dykes. I love that.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Day without sunshine exactly.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Come on, Oh my god, if you're getting conservative, oh
my god, they don't like you.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
They don't like you, they don't what are you doing.
I remember very clearly in college, like the first time
in my life I let myself tell people out right
that I was queer, go like and also I went
my first year of college was twenty sixteen, like, so
I was like incredibly politically involved. I like went to
every like every Wednesday for lunch, I would go to

(03:43):
the politics center at our college and like go to
debates and like try and participate as much as I could.
And I was trying to like get involved. I remember
I met this guy and he was really nice and
I learned he was gay. And then I saw him
again at pizza in politics this game, this like event,
and he was like the most die hard trumper I've

(04:05):
ever met in my life. And I was like, what.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
Are you doing?

Speaker 2 (04:14):
From inside the house? It was insane and I was like,
I was like, I can never trust anyone ever again.
Oh it was a rude awakening. The horror your voice,
the horror that I fell.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
So funny. I don't know Bubby the Vampire Sler. I
guess so I'm really.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Excited to talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Can you
tell how excited we are to talk about this show.
Ian has been sending me tiktoks a week that he's
been making because he is an incredibly hard working father
and we love him. I was watching them and I
was like, I cannot believe how happy I am doing this.
I cannot believe how lucky we are to be doing

(05:04):
this together and to be talking about the show I
love so god damn much. I feel like we're having
a blast, a blast.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
I keep also like watching YouTube videos like YouTube discourse
about the TV show I was watching This was suggested
by Patron. Shout out, I'll give her, I'll say her name.
Talking with Yourselves by Lexi Patron, Lexi, I was watching
a video the other day that was about like, what

(05:32):
does vampirism mean in the Buffy verse? And is it possession?
Is it like a parasite? Is it something else? I'm
so in it. I'm really having a great time. The
show is so good. Oh my gosh, oh my Gosh're
so lucky and more lucky if I was at the
cubby hole right now a close second. I did talk

(05:55):
to someone about Buffy there as well, because I told
exactly one person that it wasn't a Glee podcast anymore,
was a Buffy cast and she was like, oh my gosh,
I love Buffy. And she said, who's your who's your
favorite and least favorite character? And she said, I think
I have a good idea of what you're going to say.
And I said favorite characters, Anya, And she said that's
what I thought you were going to say. And I said,

(06:17):
I'm a brand. And then I said, and you think
I'm going to say Xander for least favorite and she
said yes, And I said, controversial opinion, not my least
favorite who.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Did I said, I do know a person, I said,
but I I know you're looking for who did?

Speaker 1 (06:33):
I say it was my least favorite character.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Angel? Oh?

Speaker 1 (06:37):
I did say Angel topical? I said Angel, I said
Angel for reasons we will get into in this episode.
I said, he's too brooding. I can't take it. He's
too brooding, and I stand by that and watching this episode,
watching this episode, he's too brooding. Okay, let's talk about
his episode. That ended up being a much better segue
than I anticipated. Wow, that really worked out for me.

(06:59):
I really, I'm very pleased. So do you want some slacks?
I all right, cue the jingle, keeping with tradition, there's
not many.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
It's so interesting. Buffy has such a rich, rich past
and like so many like think pieces, so many like
YouTube like deep dives, so many articles. I've read, not
a lot on the Buffy wiki.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
This is the issue. Is like the early Internet is
like the Library of Alexandria. You know, like most of
buffy discourse was on a chat room called the Bronze,
and then the Bronze went defunct and all of the
chats disappeared with it, so just like it all went
up in flames. We lost so much history there, whereas Glee,

(07:57):
those tweets are still you can still find the tweets. Yeah,
so like there's plenty to see from that TV show. Anyways,
here's the information we do have on this episode. We
know for a fact historians are positive that it was
the seventh episode of the first season, in the seventh
episode overall. After much theorizing, most historians do agree that

(08:17):
it was written by David Greenwaldt, who previously wrote the
episode Teacher's Pet if you remember that one and Teacher's Pet,
Thank you, Doris. And it was directed by Scott Brazil.
This is a one and done for Scott. He directed
this episode and he said that's enough for me. See ya, Okay,

(08:37):
now here's where the glacks, the slacks part of me
get a little. We're grasping for Straws. Angel's Hugo Boss
Duster that he wears in this episode. Is worth over
is worth over one the thousand dollars? Hell yeah?

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Is it like leather?

Speaker 1 (08:59):
I think so. And also he's a vampire. He's not
spending money on food.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
He's not spending money on food.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
He's got plenty on it. He spent recently people have
been like, how to vampires.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
I wasn't spending money on yeahod.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah, No. Vampires are always rich for a reason, I know,
like they can't go out during the day, but you
don't actually have many expenses, and you live for so
long that you're just a mass wealth, and then you
buy your own generational wealth exactly. The generational wealth starts
and ends with Liam what's his face? What's his last name?

(09:33):
I don't remember? Angel? And then you go and you
buy yourself thousand dollars. Hu could boss dusters?

Speaker 2 (09:39):
Dusters?

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yeah, this is the first episode. According to Buffy Wiki,
this is the first episode that had the like once
in a Generation, a Chosen One is born prologue, which,
if that's true, must mean that it got added into
the episode's previous and like syndication or on streaming or something.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
I bet, I bet it is the.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
First episode with a previously on for sure, but apparently
also be so fun and exciting. I was thrilling. I
thought there's plot about to happen where this is in
the pack anymore, Honey, stuff's actually gonna go down in
this episode.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Episode get out of here no more.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Not a standalone, not a monster, a week.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
We're talking about Monster of the month.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Yeah. David greenwaldt who wrote this episode. He's a big
Angel fan. He's such a big Angel fan that he
would go on to be the co creator of the
Buffy spinoff show Angel, which centered around Angel. Shout out

(10:43):
David Greenwalt, he knows what makes this guy tick. And
Cordelia in this episode, this is literally, you guys, such
a lame fun fact. It's just a fact, no fun.
But I'm trying to fill the time. That scene when
Cordelia's at school and the girl's wearing the same dress
as her, and she's like, oh my gosh, that has

(11:04):
to be a knockoff. This is one of a kind.
And she says, this is what happens when you get
these free trade agreements. This is a reference to the
North American Free Trade Agreement or NAFTA, which went into
effect in nineteen ninety four, which removed most tariffs in
trade between the United States, Canada, and Mexico. I know,

(11:27):
topical right now?

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Wait topical? Yeah, topical, that's all fact and no fun truly.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, I mean NAFTA got defunct in twenty twenty. It
hasn't been around for a few years. It got replaced
by the US MCA, and that's why Canada's mad at
us because they're like, you're breaching the USMCA by doing
this to us. It's a whole thing. I don't know
a lot about it. I know probably three percent about it.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
It is so embarrassing to be from America. It is
from the States. Jesus.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah, it's a very wild time. Okay, here's the other.
This is the other fact. I don't know if it's fun.
This episode is viewed by two point three million households
on its original airing. We have like tiptoed around in
previous episodes that were like, we don't really know how
much that is for the year. So I said, enough enough,

(12:22):
the internet is at our disposal. I'm gonna we're gonna
have the Nielsen's rating chat. Now we're gonna find out.
I did the research because obviously the state of TV
live TV was very different in nineteen ninety seven and nowadays,
two point three million would be great. In nineteen ninety seven,

(12:42):
two point three million households made you the one hundred
and forty second ranking TV show that was airing on television,
which is where Buffy ranked that year. Okay, for reference,
the top ranking TV show that year was Seinfeld, with
an average of twenty two million viewers a week. Oh
oh my god, so about ten times as much in

(13:05):
ten Yeah, no live TV wash, that's yeah, that's what
everyone was doing.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Baby.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
So just a view of like Buffy in its entirety
in the Nielsen's rating to give us some perspective, Buffy
when it peaked as a TV show ratings wise, with
season three the highest Nielsen's rating it ever got. Like
over over the art, an overarching rating for a season

(13:31):
was five point three. So season three of Buffy had
an average of five point three million people tuning in
every week. And you know, when you think of like
Seinfeld's twenty two million, that doesn't seem like a lot. However,
Buffy was not airing on a Big four network. It
was not airing on NBC, ABCCBS or Fox. For the WB,

(13:57):
Buffy was kind of their first quote unquote successful show.
Very cool because like five point three for the WB
was a big deal. To put it in perspective of
the WB, the biggest hit show the WB ever had
was Dawson's Creek and Dawson's Creek at its peak was
getting six point six. Buffy at its peak was getting
five point three. So like for the WB, Buffy was

(14:19):
a huge success. And in fact, Buffy was such a
big success for the WB that it inspired them to
retool their entire production and start making content for teenagers. So,
like we talked about how Buffy influence Charmed, which was
on the WB, it also influenced Dawson's Creek. They literally

(14:40):
greenlit Dawson's Creek because they were, like, teenagers are watching Buffy,
we need another teen show. Yeah. To put in perspective
of Glee, Glee at its peak was getting ten million viewers,
which is in season two of Glee. Also, exactly, Glee
is on one of the Big Four, so it gets
advantage although like the Big Four weren't as prevalent in

(15:05):
like twenty ten. Yeah, you know, a lot more people
were having access to these other TV stations, but still
it's still a boost. But yeah, so that's that's a
perspective of where Buffy was falling in the Nielsen's ratings
back in the nineties.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Okay, telling us that was actually a fun fact, thank.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
You, thank you. Yeah, it is, like, obviously on Buffy
is big ratings for the WB but overall, like not
very impressive ratings, but massive cultural impact because it was
a show for teens that teens loved. All right, Now,

(15:48):
our final slacked is here's some fun alternate titles in
alternate languages. Most of them these, most of them, of course,
are just angel. In Finnish it's Angel of Doom, Polish
it's Angel of Darkness. Okay, okay, In Italian it's the
Guardian Angel. And in German. Interesting, it's in German it's

(16:10):
Angel hyphen Bloody kisses.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
I love that. Oh my god, the Germans know how
to name it episodes Stoody Kisses, Bloody.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Kisses really strong. That's awesome. Well, yeah, those are your slacks.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
That's very cool, thank you for those slacks. I totally
thought for sure you'd tell me that the Master was
referencing Spider Man, which he totally did.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
No, he does that stuff. I'm like, literally, who cares.
I'm like, yeah, I've I've seen that was funny. No,
I think it's funny. I'm just like, is that a
fun fact? Everyone knows that that's Spider Man?

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Okay? Cool.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
There was another fun fact that I left out that
was like, in this episode the Master says from the
Mouth of Babes about something that Colin says. Zan later
says this about Blank, but there's no evidence that he's
referencing the Master, and I'm like, yeah, no, shit, he's
referencing the popular English idiom from the Mouth of Babes

(17:11):
like he's not that's not a Master original.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
Or when the Master said this when I wasn't around,
I love that.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
I say, what they're trying to do, They're just trying
to connect them.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
I'm connection. And when the Library of Alexandria aka the
Bronze chat Room went up in fire, you're really grasping
at straws for like special information to put on Buffy Wiki.
I understand, but some of it, I'm like, that's a reach,
so I'm gonna leave it out. Or that's common sense.
We all know that that's Spider Man, so I just

(17:47):
don't bring it up.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
Sure, I hear you, I hear you. Was that on.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Buffy Wiki the Spider Man one? Yes?

Speaker 2 (17:53):
It was okay?

Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah. And instead instead of writing that down, I went
and did about thirty minute it's of my own research
on Nielsen's ratings.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Wow, look at you, you're dedicated to our cause and
I love you for it. We just make this. Uh,
the recap is kind of long. I like, don't episode
it is last week.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
It's the most important episode of season one besides the
premiere and finale.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah, so I have a lot to say and like
so much happens in this episode. It's plot and I
have Also I have to tell you, I have more
friends who want to tune in. And maybe it's just
because we're starting something new, but like I I have
a book club, which I love very much, and you know,
they love and respect me, and they were like, do
I need to watch the episode to tune in? And

(18:43):
I'm like, yes, you totally should, but also detail yeah,
and I do know that, like people who have never
seen that Buffy before are tuning in, including my friends.
But I just.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
Think you should. I mean, I love but my hope
is that you listen to the podcast.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
I'm not sure podcast in exactly, I'm not trying to
convert you to with the podcast. It's for Buffy. The
Vampires lay spread the good word.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
We're being missionaries here exactly.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Speaking of I really almost called the three the three
knee fights in this weekend, and I need you to
know that before I start. I didn't, but I need
you to know before I start that any year it
should say the three knee fights, but it only says
the three.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
I'm gonna cry over that? Okay?

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Heard? Okay? Heard? Do you want to hear the recad?

Speaker 1 (19:44):
I do?

Speaker 2 (19:45):
I Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Buffaly, Jesus.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Christ, Buffally, can I take that again?

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Okay? Okay? Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Buffy is
struggling with her history class and with her weird not
boyfriend avoiding her and being creepy all the time, Like,
what's his deal? Anyway, The Bronze is closed for the
week to fume the roaches. The Master sends the three
to finally stop put a stop to the Slayer, but
Angel comes in and helps Buffy get away. They have
a sleepover at her house. Darla kills the three. Angel

(20:19):
goes over to Buffy's again and they totally make out.
It starts to get hot and heavy, and then Angel's
face totally reveals that he's been a vamp this whole time?
What the fuck? Garla goes over to Darla goes over
to the Summer's house onto the guise of helping Buffy study,
and she totally bites Joyce and then Angel comes in
to stop her, and then Darla quickly passes Joyce off

(20:41):
to him, just as Buffy comes in to see her
vampire boyfriend totally feeding on her freaking mom. She throws
Angel out and tells him that if she ever sees
him again, she'll kill him. Buffy takes Joyce to the hospital,
and she is none the wiser to the vampire attack.
Buffy shows up to the Bronze to open a can
of whoop pass on Angel. Angel reveals that he is

(21:02):
different than the other vampires that Buffy knows because he
was cursed and his soul has been restored, so he
feels remorse and hasn't fed on a human sense. Darla
shows up with two frickin' guns and reveals that they
totally used to go together. Angel duests Darla to protect Buffy,
and they decide that they cannot be together anymore. They
make out and Buffy's cross burns. It burns Angel's neck,

(21:24):
and it's super crazy. And that's what you missing, Buffy
the Vampire's Layer.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
You referring to Angel and Buffy's like Sato masochist vampire
sex murderer spree, as they totally used to go together,
as if they were like me going steady. Oh what
did I say.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
He's a buffy?

Speaker 1 (21:44):
I meant, Darla, let me take them again. Let me
take that again, let me take that again. You referring
to Angel and Darla's Sato massocresm vampire murders sex spree
as they used to go together as if he like
pinned Hern they were going study in high school.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
That's what I was going.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
It's very funny. Thank you, Darla whipping out the pistols.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Oh, I was gagged. I was gagged. I screamed. I
knew it was gonna happen, But even the way it
happens like so awesome. She holds them so silly. I
don't know anything about gun, she holds them so silly.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
Ah, so much love. I genuinely like love Julie Ben's.
I think she's very good in this role.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
Never shot a gun in her life, I know it well.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
And also you mentioned during the Harvest that when they
had to get the Jesse actor into the prosthetics for
the teeth, they realized that the prosthetics were weird, and
they gave them a lisp. So from that point onward
they started making the prosthetics differently, but Julie Benz's prosthetics
were made for the pilot, and you can tell this episode.

(22:58):
There's this moment where she's like it she can't kill
a vampire.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
Shit.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
It was her with the two pistols in a shootout
like she's in an Old West movie, and then talking
with a lisp. I was like, this is television. This
is the greatest piece of film in a history.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
I was screaming. It is so iconic in a way
that nothing can ever touch.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
When she when Buffy pushes her back on the pool
table and then kicks it, and Darla lying on her
back on a sliding pool table is shooting the pistol,
shooting the glasses on the fire. I'm gonna be straight up,
I don't love this episode as much as I should

(23:49):
because it's so brooting. It's so brooding. But the moment
that Darla whips up those pistols, I was like, and
I'm on board. And the rest of the episode I
was on the edge of my seat.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
It was crazy. The way she like box jumps onto
the pool table God, it's everything.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
Darling gone too soon. I'm so serious.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
And he's always been.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Sick, Angel sick, and he's always been shick.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
And she holds those guns. Is so great right by the.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Up it's tits up. She said, remember these and jealous, go.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
And go for her, and good for her. Darling, you
will always be famous. This is some of the most
iconic stuff I've ever seen in my whole fucking life.
Two guns.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
And I know and I know, Okay, there's a long
history in Buffy. I'll say this and I won't say
what characters this is about so that it's not a spoiler.
There's a long history in Buffy of characters being added
onto the show specifically because there's supposed to die at
a certain point, and then realizing, oh my gosh, this

(25:03):
actor in this role is electric and rewriting the story
so that they don't die anymore. And I know that
if Darla had been introduced like one season later, that
would have happened for her. Yeah, tragically, they were so
married to the fact. However, it's not true for Dahla
because Darla was supposed to die in the pilot and
they liked Julie Ben's so they had her last through here, which.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
I'm so glad they did. They gave her such amazing stuff.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
But like Darla, as as we said in the Harvest,
is a big bat of Buffy. She literally dies six
episodes in. She's the big bad at this TV show.
I loved Darla so thankfully, and now this is okay.
A weight has been lifted now that we're at this episode.

(25:51):
Because we have been going around we couldn't mention the
fact that Angel's a vampire. We was like, and you
can't talk about that time aout the fact that he's
a vampire yea, and not being able to reveal that information,
we couldn't reveal so many other thoughts. And I mentioned
once again a few episodes ago that I'm like, in

(26:11):
my mind, Darla is such a big part of this show,
and then when I watched the show back, I'm like,
she's barely in it. But the reason she's such a
big part of the show in my mind is although
we just saw her die, she's a crucial part of
Angel's origin story. And as we learn more about Angel
now that we know that he's a vampire, we will

(26:32):
in turn learn more about Darla. Yes, and we will.
In fact, she Julie Ben's again on our screen. We will,
and so like in my mind, I'm like, but Jonah's
always there, but like, no, she fully is dead. Six
episodes totally.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Oh my god. When the Master said she was my favorite,
me too, me too something. I was sad to see
her go. I honestly, when she was dusted, I was,
you know, I was like, no, Darla, please go, no go.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
It's really tragic. Yeah, she I loved her this so much.
Psychosexual queen. She is crazy the way she orgasms when
Angel dusts her. Oh, I like, are you gonna tell
me I'm wrong?

Speaker 2 (27:24):
No? No, no, She's like, I would never know wrong.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
Not.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
She's crazy too when when she like shows up to
Angel's apartment and he like throws her up against the
wall and her arms are up, I was like, first
of all, I think I've seen you do this dance,
but I just know that they've like that was that
was just crazy, Like, I just I can tell they've
done this before. I see the I see the I
see the romance here and also herving like and you're

(27:53):
hurting me. I like that you're hurting me. That's good too,
that's good too, Darling, You're crazy.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
I love you.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Oh my god, I'm obsessed with her.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
You need to watch Angel, Okay, I will, because.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
I feel like a huge fucking fraud that.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
We're here to talk about We're tight here to talk
about Buff.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
We're taking a Buffy.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
But like, if you want psychosexual buff, Buffy and angelous
Shenanigans Darla, I keep saying Buffy. I'm sorry, these blondes,
they they're the same, Darla. If you want psychosexual Darla
and jealous, you gotta check on Angel. They were wild,

(28:37):
they were crazy, they were young, dumb. But we're here
to talk about this episode, which is also I said
episode six a few times. I'm an episode seven. It's
just because it was a six episode of air, because
the first two were like a two parter, one night thing.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
So we learned that Angel is a vampire this episode,
and I, of course have always known that he's a vampire.
I can't remember not knowing that he was a vampire.
But I I enlisted a friend I have. I've I've
only converted one person into watching Buffy ever, and my
good friend Stephanie, and I talked to her last night

(29:22):
and I said, did you how did you feel did
you like guess that Angel was a vampire, which, like,
you know, I'm sure some people did, but she she
said she was like I had like a thought in
the back of my head, but she said she was
like not clocking that she was that Buffy was only
meeting Angel at night. She just thought that like Angel

(29:43):
was like a watcher type guy who like had more information, yeah,
than he was like letting on And she was like,
she was like she told me that she was like
wilfully ignoring the signs and was very gagged to learn
that Angel was a vampire, which I was very excited
to hear because honestly, watching the episode last night, I

(30:04):
of course have seen this episode, Oh my god, probably
two hundred times, and every time I watch it it
is such a fun reveal.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yes, it is. They do a good job of yes, obviously,
like you only meet him at night and he's like
very mysterious, but they give you evidence that he isn't
a vampire. Like his first meeting with Buffy, he gives
her a cross necklace, which how would he be able
to do that if he's a vampire, But we see
in this episode he gets burned by her cross necklace

(30:36):
and just like doesn't really care. He's just like, if
it's you know what she needs, I'll put up with
the pain. And then also a reveal I think is
so good in this episode as we learn the crucial
part of vampire lore that I love that so few
vampire stories make use of, which is they can't come

(30:57):
into your home unless they're invited. And we learn we're
in this piece of lore from Angel as he's standing
in Buffy's home. So then we're like, oh, well, he
walked into her house, but it's very like blink and
you'll miss it. Whereas they're running from the three said,
she throws open the door and she says come on
or like come in or something super quickly they just

(31:17):
like do they do little like hints like that to
make kind of throw you off the seant. I also
when I first watched this, did not think he was
a vampire. I think I was about in Stephanie's lane
where I was just like, he's like a mysterious I
don't know, like watch your esque individual.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yeah totally, yeah, and like maybe the thought was there,
but Buffy likes him so much.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
I also think too, Angel has is really different than
the other vampires, Like they all are like murderous and
you know, evil, and Angel is not evil, and we
learn that he does he feels remorse, and he like
you know, is different than all the VAMPI she knows.

(32:00):
So I mean that is probably really different to watch
as an audience member, to see the different behaviors in them.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah, which is brings me to my next point, which
is something that I have also been wanting to talk
about but I couldn't talk about until now. Angel is
proto Edward Colin. The popularity of Edward Colin, the character
of Edward Colin is just a consequence of the popularity

(32:28):
of Angel exactly. I was watching YouTube vidy the other
day because I remember when Twilight was big that all
the Twilight haters there was a T shirt that was
going around that would be like Buffy would have staked Edward.
And I was watching YouTube VideA the other day where
they were like, I love both the vampires player so much,
but let's be real, No, she wouldn't. Angel is Edward. Yeah,

(32:50):
she would have been in love with them. There are
so many edwardisms the whole like I drink blood but
like it doesn't count. You know, Edward only drinks animal blood,
whereas Angel's like stealing blood from blood drives. Yeah, and
the whole I'm in, you know, in love with this person,
but I also what they're a danger to me. And

(33:14):
then specifically that I keep spying on this person Angel
just watching Buffy from across the bronze. I said, I've
seen this before. This is Edward watching Bell sleep. Oh
my god, I've been here.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
I'm here today in my Twilight T shirt to represent
I'm also a twyhard And also like I feel like
like Edwards styling even them casting Robert Pattinson like they
he just looks like David Boreanis. To me this picture,
you couldn't tell me this isn't David Boriana's from Afar pulling.

(33:46):
I'm just showing him my T shirt.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
But also, and I love Robert Pattinson genuinely, and I
think he's incredibly talented. The acting choice to just be
like constantly looking a little pained and constant pay and
ever you take very Angel codd very the whole Like
I have one emotion I'm giving you, and that emotion

(34:07):
is repression and pain.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
And pain. Yeah, it's so interesting too, I mean, obviously
I've never been a vampire, but like what you know,
in like so many vampire stories, like the act of
kissing and like being sexual becomes feeding, which I'm always like,
what this is delicious romantic because.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
Is very just feeding sexual, you know, like the whole,
the whole, like vampire mythos, mythos how do you pronounce it?
I think it's mythos me like a myth like mythology. No,
I like that, like in the vampire mythology, you know,
all of these very speaking of repressed pain, all of

(34:57):
these very repressed kind of like Thectorian people when a
sex and everything was taboo. Bram Stoker was like, oh
and then this dude bites their necks and everyone's like oh,
I felt a quiver down under reading about that. Like
it's purposely extremely sexual. It is all a fable for
like sexuality and how enticing it is to have sexual

(35:21):
relations with this alluring figure, and then also like the
danger that that brings. So of course, well, kissy, kissy
brings out your vamp face.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
Damn, I've been there.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
You ever been making out and then you're like, oh,
the vamp face came out, like gigs up, I'm ugly.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
How did you feel seeing him in the vamp face
for the first time? I know you hate that.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
I mean, I'm watching Angel, so I'm used to it.
I'm seeing him in the vap face every episode.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
So oh my god, it's so awesome. I'm so glad
he's a vampire.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
I do like, I don't know when, And I'm this
is not a critique because, first of all, Darla gone
too soon, mastermind the way she puppet mastered this situation.
That's that Buffy would walk in on Angel full vamp face,
holding an unconscious Joyce with two bite marks in her neck. Yeah, Darla,

(36:19):
you're an icon. You're so smart. You were gone too soon? Yeah,
But the way that Angel is it immediately like, let
me explain and said, he just what it looks like.
He's just like snarling and growling at her, which I
believe is, you know, not to make a sexual analogy again,
but also to make a sexual analogy again, because this
is what they're going for. It is kind of supposed

(36:41):
to be like vamped faces when you are like the
horniest you ever are where then once you're not horny anymore,
you're like, why did I do that, and so it
is kind of like he's like so vamped over. He's
so hungry in that moment that he's not thinking rationally
to be like this isn't what it looks like. Yeah,
it is just like everything in him is like I

(37:03):
want to drink this woman's blood.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
But also and it's like probably the first time he's
been near like a person's blood.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
Yes, yeah, that's also you go no, go ahead, Okay,
well I will go ahead. I feel like I'm talking
a lot.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
No, I like what you're saying. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
This episode is also it takes us the Angel story
takes us on a journey, specifically, with the vampire impulses
being an analogy a metaphor for Libido. It takes us
on a journey of like Buffy knows this guy and
it's like really cool that he's mysterious and older, and

(37:48):
she like, really that's she finds out very exciting and like,
oh my gosh, these guys at my school so lame,
but like this mysterious adult man finds me attractive and
that makes me really excited. And then specifically like she
has to invite him into her home, which feels, you know,
there's many interpretations, but like she is in inviting this
man into her life, and then the moment that she

(38:09):
kisses him, the moment things turn into sexual and nature.
She finds out he's not what I thought, he's a monster. Yeah,
and it that the whole like being a vampire is
being horny, I think is intentional for that story. Yes,
that it's like, you don't actually sometimes mysterious is cool

(38:30):
and sexy. Sometimes mysterious is actually dangerous and scary, and
you don't actually know who that person is until you're
in a compromising situation with them.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good thought.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yeah, hey, hey, and they try and kill your mom
and then they try and kill your mom, and that
I don't like. I mean, it's always rough when you like,
make out with someone, have sex with someone, whatever, and
they're not who you thought, that's always rough. But the
amount of times that immediately after they try and kill

(39:01):
your mom, it's like, again.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
I know, it's like why am I? Why do I
keep being in this situation?

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Seriously, it's like outweaking. At what point am I the problem?
If I'm bringing all these men home and they're consistently
trying to kill my mom? At what point do I
look in the mirror and I say, we need to
work on ourselves for a bit. Yes, what am I
putting into the world that is attracting men who want
to kill my mom?

Speaker 2 (39:25):
What is it about you.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
That attracts I don't get it. I don't get it.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Wow, we even they need to unpact this.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
I keep I find all these men on Craigslist. We meet, excite, unseen. Okay,
I go into misconnections, I say, searching someone, uh, preferably unattached,
preferably someone with abandonment issues, who has a bad relationship
with their mother, old or mysterious watches me from afar. Yeah,

(39:54):
I'm not never says more than five second. I know.
I don't get it.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
I'm not seeing it.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
I just don't want to go on the apps. It's
just hookup culture. On the apps and craigslist. People are
actually looking for meaningful connections.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
No, they're looking for meaningful connections. Even when you're looking
for unattached to people.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
They're actually looking because I can fix them. Because I
can fix them.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
We talk about Angel, Buffy walking in on Angel like
feeding on her mother. She handles that like a champ.
I cannot I feel like, I'm always saying this, I
would have killed him. I can't. I don't think I'm

(40:38):
the murderous man from Craigslist, but maybe I am. I
would have killed I would have killed Angel. And I
understand she likes him so much, she feels so deeply
for him to have him. And I know that, of
course she doesn't have a whole story, but even just
to see that, I was like putting myself in that situation.

(40:58):
And if I saw some when doing that to my mother,
their asses Grass, She's she handled it like obviously, I'm
glad she handled it how she did, because there's more
to learn here. It wasn't the full story. Darla did
set this up, and you know, I was like, oh
my god, she just threw them out and she's like,

(41:19):
if you come around here again, I'll kill you. I
would be like, your ass is, Grass, I'll see you
at the flagpole. I don't know. It was insane and
that she has the wherewithal to even like call an ambulance.
And thank god, Joyce doesn't remember what happened, and oh
my god, I would have killed Angel. I would have
killed Angel.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
Joyce comes back from the hospital and she's like Okay,
I must have slipped and I poked my neck and
I blot out, how did our window get broken?

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Now?

Speaker 1 (41:52):
What happened there?

Speaker 2 (41:53):
What happened? Well, she hasn't seen it yet, but she's
going to when she comes home.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
I'm like, what that explanation?

Speaker 2 (41:59):
I wonder if I wonder if Giles has connections.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
He was like, get that window fixed.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
Yeah, he's getting.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
He probably does. I imagine the Watcher's Council. That's probably
like a big part.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
Of their job. Oh yeah, it's like clean up.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
It is like, yeah, cover up stuff. And then they
plant they plant a barbecue fork on the floor of
the kitchen, like you just forgot buying it, Joyce, you've
always had it.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
You don't have one right there, it's on the ground.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
This is like not a spoiler, but it's not something
we've really seen yet. But as the show goes on,
we learned that, like the Watchers Council, it's not just
like Giles, Like there are watchers on the Watchers and
there is one layer. So these dudes have to be
doing something. So they better be cleaning up these messes,
because otherwise, what are they doing sitting on their asses

(42:52):
all day while Giles, while Rupert Giles has to spend
every waking moment keeping this teenage girl alive.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
I have so many thoughts on I can't share with you.
I have so many thoughts on this. I can't share
with you.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
No, we'll get there. Oh my god, Okay, well can
you share with me?

Speaker 2 (43:08):
I love this episode. I think I like Angel brooding
in this episode. Obviously it gets grading after some time,
but even like there's the shot where like Darla comes
into his apartment and he is like, what are you
doing here? Get out of my apartment? You know, he
is like being really mysterious and crazy, and Dave Pranas,
you're kind of a bad actor sometimes.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Oh, I'm not gonna say kind of. He gets better
as time goes on.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
He does, and even knows you probably would.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
But let us lest we forget.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
He's picked up. He was hand picked.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
He was hired because he was hot, not because he
was talented.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
And you know what, he's a good actor for someone
who was just walking their dog.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
They didn't see him performing a monologue on that street.
They saw him walking and looking sexy, and they said,
that's our guy.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
But there's this shot, and I'm so interested to hear
that this director never directed again, because there's so many
fun iconic shots here that are like just really I
don't know, just really exciting. But he is like so
intensely side lit and like half of his face is gone.
It's awesome. And then so many like upshots as like
shots from below, many like you know, Dutch angle, whatever

(44:21):
the hell like things are happening, and I was like,
the director is kind of popping off on this episode.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
Yea, if we're talking about the cinematography. My favorite shot
not to bring you back to the gunfight, I'm bringing episode.
There's a shot of Darla with the two pistol shooting
and she's backlit, she's just she's a silhouette, and then
outlined in like green and red light of just her
hair flying as the pistol shoot. The pistols are also

(44:49):
it's like an all timey Western sound effect, so it's
just like the glowing outline of Darla's hair flying, and you're.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Like, it's so, I'm so glad you mentioned the like
the bottles are exploding, we're in a saloon.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
No, it is like a it's like a clint eat
Eastwood like it is a throw back to Old West movies.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
Oh, and I think that's on purpose too, like even
throwing her her crossbow down and like kicking it and
like picking it up. Like this is a shootout.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
It's a shootout. We're at the funny, but.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
It's also so fucking iconic. It's very fun.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
Yeah, and that's what I love about this TV show.
This whole episode is very plot heavy, very dramatic, pretty serious,
and the climax of the episode they like, and then
what if it was a crazy shoot out on a saloon?

Speaker 2 (45:43):
And I love it? Can we talk about we learned
how old Angel is in this episode?

Speaker 1 (45:53):
Oh? Yes, we actually do need to talk about this.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
And so we knew he was older, and she knew
he was older, and Angel says, I'm older and Buffy says,
he's in his first year at community college. She knows
he's older. Buffy's sixteen. Angel, You're disgusting to me. Angel,
you may be sexy, but fuck, are you a pedophile?

(46:17):
It is to learn that he's two hundred and forty
and that she's sixteen, What the fuck?

Speaker 1 (46:26):
And also like to talk about I would call him
for a second, him too. When Edward Colin gets the
hot Rebella. It's also gives me pause. Yeah, but Edward Colin,
he's at seventeen exactly like he was changed at seventeen.
And I'm still like that feels like a loophole and
I don't trust it, like he was changed.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
As a loophole.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
Nonetheless, Yeahah, Angel, Liam wants his face. What is his
last name? He was not? He was fully an adult.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
Born Liam in Galway.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
They're not going to tell me his last name?

Speaker 2 (47:03):
What the hell? It just says Liam.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
There is in Galway, in Ireland, there is a plaque
that says, I'll read it to you, hold me, hold up, Okay.
In Galway, this plaque says O'Malley. We'll say that's true.
There is a plaque that says on this site. In
April seventeen fifty three, Liam O'Malley was bitten by vampire
and went on to become the most feared monster in

(47:28):
all of Europe. He later changed his name to Angel
and found fame in the nineteen ninety seven hit TV
series Buffy the Vampire. It was O'Malley, O'Malley, Liam Omley,
But that was plaque says, they might have just picked
a name. I like it I do.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
Good.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Okay, So Liam O'Malley, Liam O'Malley gotten changed? You know what?
You and I need to personally make it our mission
to go to Galloway. And well, that sounds fun. I
was going to say update Cleveland.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
I was gonna say, under that's we're on different pages there.
Liam was an adult like Edward pre Vampire. Edward pre
Vampire could have fallen in love with Bella and it
would have been like, Okay, cool, It's still creepy because
his mind has been growing, so it's still creepy. But

(48:18):
Liam pre vampire exactly, Liam pre vampire, girl, you're still
like thirty years old?

Speaker 2 (48:26):
I am. Do you know how old.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Is twenty eight? I believe in twenty eight?

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Okay in this episode, Okay, do you think he was
like twenty eight when he was changed?

Speaker 1 (48:36):
I think so. Like we see in the Gosh no spoilers,
we see video like flashbacks of Liam, like of Liam,
not of vampire Angel of Liam. And he is an adult.
He's not some kid. They don't tell us like, hey,
he's twenty eight years old, but I do not believe

(48:59):
he's like sixteen seven. He seems to be an adult man.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
He was twenty six according to ATS.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Hey, there you go, there you go. Yeah, so it's suspicious.
Vampire media does this all the time.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
They do, And I mean to put a vampire slayer
in high school, to put her in high school, to
tell us the story that high school is hell, to
tell us the story that growing up as hell, she
has to be this young. But in order for her
to fall in love with a vampire, I mean, he
could be like changes seventeen and now he's actually twenty seven.
But that's not like as fun as showing me, yeah

(49:38):
that he is two and forty. So I understand where
it comes from. But also, what the hell I hate pedophiles,
you know, because of the like.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
It comes with a territory.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
It does territory. If it's vampire media, this is gonna
be the gag. He's gonna be oldest shit. And for
whatever reason, vampire media is always about like a teenage
girl with this man who's because even like and Dracula,
which I mean back in the eighteen nineties, society was
different about this kind of stuff. But I'm pretty sure

(50:16):
that Mina is like seventeen as well. Yeah, and Jackiela
is like a honey bear.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
So also, I mean that's also like kind of across
fantasy as well. Now, I mean I feel like every
fantasy novel I've ever read is always teenage girl plus
five hundred year old man, yes, which and how she
needs to save the world and I love that.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
But you tell me if you feel like this is
true or not, because I don't know what it's like
to be a girl. I feel like observing the girls
around me as a teenager, specifically the theater girls and
how obsessed they were with the Phantom of the Opera,

(51:04):
it is a common fantasy that I saw that. It
was like this older, mysterious man is going to see
that I am special and I am chosen and I'm
different than my peers and they're gonna choose me. Yeah,
And so it is like that wish fulfillment that that is.
That's why I'm saying, Like it comes to the territory.
It is like, obviously this was the real world, Angel

(51:24):
be a pedophile, but also this is the real world.
Angel wouldn't be a vampire because vampires don't exist, and
so it is like I want to acknowledge that, like
what the fuck is that about? But also I don't
actually care that much because it's fantasy and that is
a wish fulfillment. I literally I knew a girl in
high school who would write I've mentioned this before on
this podcast because I'm still like, what was going on

(51:46):
with you? She would write messages to her like right
to herself from the Phantom of the Opera on her
test papers, wishing her good luck on the test. I
love that, which I was like, I mean, if it
works for you, for you. But also he's canonically middle
aged and a murderer. I hope you're aware. So I

(52:08):
think if Buffy Summer's fantasy is that she wants to
be with a man who's thirty years old and a murderer,
and she lives in a fantasy world, who am I
to say? Boo?

Speaker 2 (52:18):
And I'm glad you're saying it too. And I can
also speak to this. I think there is an intense
feeling when you're growing up in general, but especially growing
up as a girl slash the person, where the also
when you're like dating boys as well, boys when you

(52:40):
are seventeen are so stupid it's crazy, yeah, it's and
like you are so far emotionally advanced than the boys
you're dating that it is Honestly, it is an intense
experience and it makes you feel nuts. So I completely lee.

(53:00):
I completely felt that fantasy had that fantasy of no
one gets me at my school. I'm gonna meet some
guy on my college walk through and he's gonna finally
understand me and take me a faraway from this fucking place.
Like of course, I think that that is only normal,
and girls are and I mean I also think that

(53:20):
this is a thing that men used to pray on
young young girls. Is that you know, the boys are
raised don't understand you, but also they don't so I get.
I get what you're saying. And also this is part
of the course with fantasy and vampire media, so I'm
glad we're mentioning it. But it's also like, yeah, this

(53:42):
is a part of the story. Yeah, so we will
continue to talk about it.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
Yeah, I think it's I think it's true that I
used to.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
Think doctor Who was gonna like go like outside my house,
outside my class, and I'd see through the window and
be able to run away finally, finally, and then me
and Matt Smith would have furious, passionate makeout sessions on
the board of the tartis.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
As much as I The annoying part of me is like,
oh my gosh, it's like over the dramatic romantic stuff.
It's just so dumb. I will I have to admit.
She's a vampire slayer. He's a vampire, but they're in
love with each other, like that story of the Ages.
Shakespeare wished he came up with that.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
No he did.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
Captin's versus Montacuese. I don't think so vampires versus vampire slayers.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
I oh my god. Even last night I felt this way.
I was like, shit, she is so obsessed with this guy.
She loves him. He is in some way. She feels
as though he is like the only person who understands her,
and she's met him like four times, like he like

(54:57):
speaks to a part of her that like no one
else understan and maybe that is because he's a vampire
and gets it. She is so obsessed with him, and
then learning that it is the ultimate forbidden love. Oh
my god, I love it. I love it so much.
I'm obsessed. She is literally a vampire slayer. It's her job.

(55:18):
Everyone is like even Xander's like, hello, the writing's on
the wall. Here, you're the Slayer and even Giles is like, yeah,
I feel like it's your duty, dog, And She's like,
I can't have anything good on this planet. The even
the one guy who like made me excited to be
living a life, I can't have him at all. Oh

(55:43):
my god, I'm obsessed. No, girl, I'm obsessed, And I
understand what you're saying. He is broody is all hell,
But oh my god, I love it. I can't stop.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
I find the Buffy angle compelling. I find I just
like Buffy Rack. She's an incredibly well rounded character. So
when Buffy is like extremely emotional or brooding, I'm on
board because I also see her be silly and light hearted,
like she's multifaceted. Angel gets on my nerves because I'm like,

(56:12):
can we try a different flavor? Like, oh my god,
I cannot see you feel the same way for one
hundred straight episodes, but the whole like Buffy's relationship with
Angel and the pain that it causes her and yet
like she still wants to be with him, I find
very compelling. So I'm on board, And specifically, I think

(56:34):
it makes this Xander dynamic very I think that what
I'll say the Xander parallel is very interesting, Yes, where
it is like, here is a guy that is her age,
that is a human that is, for all intents and
purposes in the world of the show, a nice, solid guy. Like, yeah,

(56:54):
he's kind of dumb.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Like the perfect guy for her, maybe.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
Exactly, Like, yes, he's kind of dumb, Yes, he's kind
of a buffoon. He's also seventeen. Every seventeen year old
boy is. But like, she could have a solid, safe
life with this guy, and then here's this guy who
is like mysterious and older and sexy and complicated and

(57:19):
is also the polar opposite of her, and they could
never ever be together. And yet that's the guy that
she's interested in, that's the one that she loves, that's
the one that she is drawn to, and she has
no interest in the safe, reasonable option. And I just
think that's a really fun, interesting parallel to have on
the TV show.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
It is it is to show the differences between like
the way she's like talking to Willow about how much
she loves him and about how much she you know,
she doesn't say she loves him, but how much she
cares for Angel and how excited he makes her. And
then to even cut to and this is like to
show that Willow is also feeling similarly about Xander, but
to cut from Angel too, then Xander being silly and

(58:03):
then stepping on Cordelia's toes and then saying she looks like,
oh my god, what does he say? He says, she
looks like a hooker Sander on my list. But I mean,
you know, it's just like an insane juxtaposition these two characters.
It's very fun. Another trope I love is when they
get to a place and they have to do and

(58:27):
there's only one bed. I've been on a three, I've
had a romance novel of two, and I love it
when there's only one bed. That ship makes me cheer.
That ship makes me jump up and go. I love
when there's only one bed and he's a gentleman he
sleeps on the floor, and I love when that happens too.

(58:47):
But I also love when they Oh my god, I
seriously was like, this is a romance novel. I'm obsessed.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
I can't walk up. They walk up to Buffy's room
and Buffy's like, oh my gosh, there must be some
sort of mistake. The person at the front desk that
there'd be two beads, and he just like, Buffy, this
is your house, is your room, you literally do that
there was going to be a single.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
There's only one room.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
So embarrassing. If I had realized this was going to happen,
I never would have invited you to stay over.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
It's crazy too, because it's also it's always after a
like some sort of big thing that they have to
go hunker down somewhere like after a battle, and that
they literally are read the battle with the three fights.
I was like, I've read, I think I've read this
story before. I really loved I was so excited and
then her like telling everyone that he slept over and

(59:36):
how excited she was, And that was.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
The other thing to make this Xander versus Angel parallel.
Two episodes ago, we had the long conversation about how Xander,
dumb seventeen year old was trying to sneak a peek
when Buffy was changing behind him. Angel two hundred and
forty year old gentleman. He did not attempt to sneak
a peek, not sneak a peek, that is, I do genuinely. Yeah,

(59:59):
I find that parallel between those two characters that will
continue to be present in the show. Very intriguing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
I like it. Why I didn't even notice that part.
That's such a good thought.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Thanks Babe.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
You may be a pedophile, but you're a gentleman.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
You're a gentleman about it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
A gentleman.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
You might be kissing kids, but you will not turn
your back when they're changing. And I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Can I also, I have to make fun of Angel
for something I'm kind of jumping around when I'm just
so excited. I love this episode. I just was. I
remember watching this episode as a kid and as a
teenager and just being so excited. And anyway, there's the
part where they get hot and heavy they start making
out a there was like the most kissing I'd ever
seen to that point when when I watched they are

(01:00:45):
kissing and then he turns into a vamp and then
she screams, and then he dives out of the window
and he swims down the roof in the grossest way.
It does give me the ck. Sorry, Angel, it's disgusting
the way he swims my house.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
He's driving it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
It's great.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
He's tried, Spad.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
He can't go feet first.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
He has to swim well because it was reaction.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
It looked like the mom on the ceiling in hereditary
swimming on the walls.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
It was reactionary. He got embarrassed. He was full ull
go face in front of his girl. He got embarrassed.
He was like, I got a GTFO jumped headfirst out
of the window without thinking. He can't take that. You
know how much time it would take to open the window,
go feet first, and now he's halfway down the roof.
He's already head first. Might as well commit? Might as

(01:01:43):
well commit?

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
You can't. You can't. You're telling me.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
You tell me it would not have given you the
ick for him to dive out feet first, land and
then sit on his butt, turn his body and then
crab walk down the roof. Tell me that's better. You
rather see to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
In my mind, he could like like shove up in
the window, grab the ledge and then like swing out
and like jump out of the window that way.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
Like clear the roof, like jump the roof.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Well, I mean he's like super minikan.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
I mean he doesn't jump through the second floor of
the bronze from the billiard table self can jump.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
I mean, Darla can shoot guns and have no like
power like, no throwback. Yeah, I don't know. I don't
know any guns. Uh so I assume they're strong. He can,
he can jump off a built he can he can
clear a roof in a single bound.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
He was embarrassed. He was embarrassed.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
You know if you you're saying he's embarrassed.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Sometimes if you're uncomfortable, it's hard to perform exactly exactly.
He was like, I swear this is this normally isn't
a problem for me. I normally can clear the roof.
Normally can clear the roof, but I have to scoot
down it above. He's like, it's like, hey, this happens
to every guy. Sometimes you have to scoot on the roof.
It's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
It's okay. We can do other stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
We can go down the stairs. It's fine. We can
clear the roof another night.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
There's another way. I'm not You're not just here to
clear the roof. You can do others stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
I also love my scene because once his vamp face
comes out, it does this intense music like and then
this second the camera cuts back to her after he's
sized on the roof, the music just cuts out. It's
like extremely intense music for four seconds, and then it cuts.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
Out in the silent yeah, and also her.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
Letting out a blood curdling screen, Joyce running into the room.
What's wrong, Buffy? Oh I saw a shadow?

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
I oh.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
I'd be like, oh you had a you got a
vampire in your room? I know it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Yeah, just screwed it down that roof. I'm not I
wasn't born yesterday, Buffy Summers.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
I I am your mother. I can differentiate your scream.
I can tell I can tell that was a Empire
scream that I saw a shadow scream.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Also, earlier that night, she was lying about having a
friend over and that friend was a thirty year old man.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
I do feel like I would be like, Okay, Buffy,
I was not born yesterday. You are owning that man
and he was here. Yeah, this is a bad situation.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
She doesn't tell Joyce that Angel is staying over.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
No, she does the fake out where she's like, let's
do the study thing tomorrow, closes the door and Angel
is standing behind the door. No, Annie, I love you. Joyce.
I do think you fumbled this one. Oh the writing
was on the wall and you did not put the
pieces together.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
No, especially like I would be like Buffy, it's she says,
it's really late to be studying. And also like she is,
where is she studying with this handsome guy from college
alone in their house? My mom would freak the fuck out.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
And specifically, when Joyce comes home, Buffy isn't like, hey, Mom,
I have a friend over. She's like, hey, Mom, you
seem really tired. You should go to bed right now. Yeah, Joyce, girl,
let's open up her eyes. Let's take a look at
the world around us. Let's take a look what's going on?

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Can we also this Angel, I mean Buffy, the way
that she is taking care of this man like he's
a human. It is Honestly, I was like, this is
sad where she is like tending to his wounds, which
I mean his wounds are weird, are real, but like
also bringing him food and like having him sleep at
her house to like protect him. Oh my god, Buffy,

(01:05:58):
you poor girl. This sucks.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
Angel eating the food like, I don't know how this
is supposed to help, but sure, oh whatever, I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
Hey, Edward culinate the pizza once.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
So hey, Darla coming up to the Summer's house. I
love call me basic. I love the trope of villain
goes like visits family member who doesn't know they're the villain.

(01:06:30):
The tension. I love the dramatic irony of it. I
love being in on the secret and the family member
doesn't know that shot of Darla first of all, prank
Queen Darla Dingdong ditching the Summer's house before she knocks
on the front door, just like makes noises in the
back door, just as she can peak to the window
and be like her. I just she's such an artist.

(01:06:53):
So that's what I respect about her. Some vampires they're
just there to get a quick bite. Darla is an arteast.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
I also love when she kills the three bites the three.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
Oh, when she's so excited.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
Oh, she's so excited. And I mean there's something so
interesting too about they make such a big deal about
the three, Like the Master is like, finally we're gonna
We're gonna get Buffy. The Slayer is done for I'm
enlisting to three.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
Literally, there's like a chapter about them in one of
Giles's books. That's how big of a deal they are.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
Oh, they're a huge deal. And then because they failed
in getting Buffy one night, they don't even try again,
like the Master's like, okay, I'll spare you, and then
Darla kills them. I was actually I was like, okay, what, Like,
we were so excited about the three, why are we
killing them?

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
I kind of it irritated me at first, and then
I thought about it, and I think it's kind of
funny and I like it. I like the vibe. I
like the vibe that the Order of Aurelius is like
a college fraternity where they take themselves so seriously, they

(01:08:04):
are so like we are. There was there was a
club at my high school called the Gentleman's Scholars Club,
and it was full of the biggest douchebags you've ever
met in your entire life. And the whole vibe of
the gentleman Scholars Club was it was all these boys
who were like, we are men, and we're so and

(01:08:26):
we're like, you know, old fashion, like all American awesome men,
and we're the backboint of society and we are like
the scream of the crop, YadA, YadA, YadA. And at
the end of the day, it's like, are you really
or are you just a bunch of stupid sixteen year
old douchebags? And I like that the Order of Aurelius
has that vibe that it is they are all pomp

(01:08:49):
and circumstance. They're so self important. They do all of
these rituals. They're so like, we are the rulers of
the demon world. But at the end of the day,
the three literally outnumbered her and were defeated within ten minutes. Yeah,
and then had to give up their lives because of it.
It's just funny to me that they're so self important

(01:09:12):
and then step in it every single episode. I think
it's silly.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
I love that. I think that's I like that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
I like that the gentleman scholars of the demon world.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
You ord never really is a gentleman scholar. I thank
god i've ever heard of that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
That their slogan the slogan of this club, because they
were like, where the I mean, this was their justification
to get it past the school board was where the
tip of society, where the cream of the crop. So
their slogan was just the tip.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
You're kidding. See that ship for a high school baby
so much? That's that ship pisses me off so much,
and I think it speaks to a thing that I
hate so much about toxic masculinity in the patriarchy is
like they are going to tell you to your face
they are better than you, and then like make it
a joke as well, like they don't even oh my god,

(01:10:06):
that oh my god, thank god, that wasn't at my school.
That looks Hey, oh my god. So I get what
you're saying. I think that's kind of fun.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
I think it's stupid.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
They cannot get they cannot get Buffy.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
And the fact that like the three who are these
centuries old warriors who take such pride and what they do,
are so unable to capture Buffy. And then Darla has
to be like, let me do it, let me do it,
let me do it, let me do it. Finally the
Master's like, okay, you can do it, and ultimately Darla

(01:10:41):
is defeated, but she does it with such ease and
she has such an incredible master plan, and she gets
so close to succeeding.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
Does she literally is like these these boys bringing fists,
I'm bringing.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
Guns exactly she said before.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Her Mom You're so right, like no one could get
as close as Darla did, Like I'm wow, that is
powerful and it's these or it really is. I think
you really need to get more women on your council.
You cannot be making decisions without them.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
It speaks a lot to people's bullshit titles and one
am I the word. I can't come up with a
word I'm trying to say, But credentials, That's what I'm
trying to say. People's like bullshit credentials where you can
have there could be one hundred people in the room
and ninety nine of them. There can be two people

(01:11:35):
and they are both equally capable of getting the job done,
or person A could actually be more capable, but because
person B comes from a place of privilege, they're going
to get the job. It's the whole Like, I have
this job title, and so people just assume that I'm smarter.
It really bothers me, you know. I just like see

(01:11:58):
movies and TV shows and I occasionally will see an
actor who is just doing such a bad job. Yeah,
such a bad job, and I'm like, but the reality
is because they had whatever big break back in the day,
or because their parents are connected or whatever, they.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
Will have x amount of Instagram followers exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
They will continue to get the job because they have
the credential. Whereas I know, like fifty people personally who
are such a better actor than them, who are not
even going to get in the room. And I kind
of think it's fun that the Order of Really Is feels,
at least to me, like a commentary on that that
it's like, yeah, the three like have a whole chapter

(01:12:40):
on them. That doesn't mean that they're good. It just
means that they were lucky.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
Yeah, oh my god, I like that a lot. I
like that you are so your takes are awesome. Always
sharing a podcast with you because you're always doing fun
like saying things that are awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
I'm so happy to be doing a podcast with you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
Oh my gosh, Order Really Is? I know, I know
so many of them. I know so many of them.

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
It's like, that's true. That's true. Adulthood is when you
find out that seventy percent of the time people's titles
mean nothing and they actually don't know anything more than
anyone else.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
Yep, totally, you can watch it. I'll watch any commercial
and be like I could do literally any of that,
but because that person did X, y Z, they can. Yeah,
they just get an opportunity.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
Yeah, oh my god, I was speaking Order of Really Is.
I do think it's kind of fun. I love that
it's kind of like a three men in a baby
scenario where it's like, yeah, they're like it is like
it takes a village. They're all amazing the Anointed One.
It's so silly, and I love that they fully call

(01:13:53):
it out where the Master even says like, see, we
are learning and teaching each other. That's what a fail
are you supposed to be?

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
I honestly, there was even the moment where like the
Anointed One like he was like trying to like make
the Master feel better about Darla dying, and then they
walk away holding hands. I was like father and.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
Son, the single father. Yeah, I do I think it was.
I think it's a village situation. But I do think
it was like Darla was the mom, the Master was
the dad.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
And that's a single dad situation. Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
Poor annoyed when he keeps losing parents. I know, I'm
nervous for him.

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
He's gonna end up onst.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
Oh god, I got the he's he's got the funniest voice.
It really jarred me.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
And here's the gag.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
What's the gag.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
This is a little kid. This is a very little ky. Yes,
so I.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
Understand it's it's a baby.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
But as is the case with a lot of little kids,
little Hailey Joel Osmond light, he's not acting, he's just
saying words. I think they put the voice changer on
him to do a lot of heavy lifting and disguise
the fact that he's just reading the words off a
piece of paper. But then when he put a voice,

(01:15:14):
it's like, who's reading the wards off a bruer? Suddenly
he seems menacing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:20):
Hey, it is honestly very jarring to see this. He's
probably five or six. Like I don't know, I can't
tell how old kids are, but this base.

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
Is somewhere between three and fourteen.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
But to have this voice, I was like, oh my god.
And then it took me a second to realize, like, oh,
it's a voice changer. Oh, it's like kind of several voices.
It's kind of fun.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
Yeah, But also I like that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
I think, like, you know, let's help this kid.

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
Yeah, let's give him, let's give him some training wheels,
help him be a little spookier.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
Was like, Hello, what the hell is that? Can you
believe that her necklace burnt his neck? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
No, that very loved that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:01):
Did you hate that? No?

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
I loved that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
I loved it too.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
I like sometimes the gothic drama of Buffy. It's not
like I draw into the show, but moments like that,
I'm like, Okay, no, that was cool and badass. He's
so in love with her that he accepts the cross
burning him just so he can be close to her. Okay, Okay,
you got me. That's cool.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
Sarah Michelle Geller is so short compared to David Bouranis.
I can tell she's on an apple box so that
their necks can touch. It really made me laugh. That's
one thing I love As a tall person. I feel
like I'm especially a tall woman. I feel like I'm
really conscious of people's height differences, and that's something that

(01:16:47):
I notice a lot, like Mulon Rouge.

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
Oh yeah, McGregor is tiny, tiny.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
Youan McGregor is like three inches shorter than miss amc.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
So, like I can always tell when she's on an
apple box by her, So I'm like, I feel like
I have a I have a sixth sense for the
apple box, and they were employing the apple box so
that their necks could touch it. May be I left,
what what other thoughts do I have. Honestly, this episode
is really fun. I it is very a the gothic

(01:17:23):
drama of it all, be the saloon shootout of it all.
I think that there are so many fun, awesome things
happening here. I just and like to like be teasing
this guy to us for seven episodes, and like having
him in the background and helping Buffy but be very
mysterious and exciting, and she's wearing his jacket, and then

(01:17:45):
to reveal that he is the the ultimate forbidden love.
I I'm obsessed. No, I really like it. And I
mean I have complicated feelings about Angel that will contain
you to talk about, but in this moment, I am great.
A You're obsessed, I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
I also like the Bronze is a set piece in
this episode a lot. I think the concept of a
humigation party is very fun. Small town very fun. Yeah,
I love.

Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
They do a pre and post fumigation party.

Speaker 1 (01:18:19):
I think that's really fun.

Speaker 2 (01:18:20):
I'm obsessed.

Speaker 1 (01:18:21):
And then of course having the fumigation party so that
we have justification for the bronze being completely empty for
the shootout. It's just so much more exciting to have
this very personal battle for Buffy, summers happen in a
location that we're familiar with instead of like in some
random mausoleum somewhere.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
Yep, totally.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
And also, because Darla is an artiste, you know that
she wants the shootout to happen somewhere that is traumatic
for Buffy. Yeah, she wants Buffy to go. But this
is my safe place. This is where I come for
Wi Fi and coffee. I can't die here.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
Where will Willow get her reasons after I'm gone?

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
Every time she eats Razor that she's gonna cry.

Speaker 2 (01:19:01):
Now do you happen? Where are we gonna get muffins ruined? Forever?
For everyone? Darla, you will always be famous. You are crazy, psychosexual.
I'm obsessed. I love you.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
I really wish she had got in away.

Speaker 2 (01:19:18):
I know I was devastated when she was jested.

Speaker 1 (01:19:22):
And I get that. It's kind of like that's the
only way for Angel to prove himself to Buffy. From
a storytelling standpoint, If Darla had gotten away, there'd always
be the suspicion of were they working together? Yes, So
for him to kill Darla, it's kind of the only
way that we can move forward with him as one
of our heroes.

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
Yeah, and not to mention, like not even just as
a villain, but also as like an ex of his
as well, like even from like a strictly dating standpoint.
For him to cut that off is very interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
That is a rule that I have anytime I date someone.
I'm like, so, bring your exes in front of me,
and I need to see you kill.

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
I have to. I have to watch you defeat yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
I need to watch you. I need to watch I'm
not doing it. I need to watch you kill your sexes.

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
Okay, so, oh wait, you have an ex.

Speaker 1 (01:20:12):
Okay, kill them.

Speaker 2 (01:20:13):
You know what you need to do? Kill them.

Speaker 1 (01:20:14):
You need to kill them. You're serious about this. You
tried to kill my mom. I forgave you. Now you
need to kill your ex.

Speaker 2 (01:20:22):
Your ex.

Speaker 1 (01:20:23):
Hey, that's called healthy boundary setting. Shout out, Angel, I
think so too.

Speaker 2 (01:20:29):
You do the right thing. Ian. Please tell me your
worst part of this episode.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
My worst part is I just find Angel to be
a little too brooding. And I find this episode obviously
compelling and interesting, but at times I was like, oh
my god, and also, like David borrianis gets better as
the show goes on. I'm not talking about his current
caliber as an actor, but very green David Boranis is

(01:21:03):
not helping matters. Yes, yeah, what about you.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
I meant to bring this up earlier, but I mean,
I'm only going to half bring it up now because
it is a conversation we're going to continue to have.
But we learned that Angel was cursed by a group
of Romani people, and I think it like perpetuates some
harmful stereotypes about Romani people and like including like saying

(01:21:33):
the Giesler. But this is a conversation we're going to
continue to have. We have characters who we're we're going
to continue to talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:21:41):
It continues to be in this TV show, and the
curse that has put on Angel continues to be discussed.

Speaker 2 (01:21:46):
Exactly so, And I want the listeners to know and
the listeners who love Buffy to know that we're going
to be talking about it and it's not something I
like about this show, and to reference it now, but
also to tell you that we're going to continue talking
about it. We can't say it all right now, but
just you know it is on our radar and we
will be talking about it as much as is appropriate.

(01:22:06):
Isn't my worst part My worst part is Joyce. You
need to wake up. Joyce. I know we're on a
hell mouse Joyce.

Speaker 1 (01:22:13):
I know, I know you're a single mom. I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:15):
It's really come in, come talk to me, Joy's. I
know it's your single mom. You work really hard. You're
at the you run this gallery even and even though
it's a small town, you're working your fucking ass off.
You're wrestling with the I R s in the middle
of the night. I know you're working hard. Joyce. You
need to wake up, Joyce. There is a man in
your house, Joyce. The woman you let in bit you.

(01:22:36):
She bit you.

Speaker 1 (01:22:37):
Joyce was.

Speaker 2 (01:22:40):
Critically no, it wasn't a nice shot. There were so
many moments. I feel like you dropped the ball today, Joyce,
and I need you to pick it up and do
better next time.

Speaker 1 (01:22:49):
Not a not an episode for Joyce.

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
Summery and I mean, Joyce. I love you, Joyce. I'm
telling you this. I have never yeted a girl like
this with my life. And I'm saying this because I
love you.

Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
Learn something from when my mother, Joyce, when my mother
spoke to me like this is because she loved me.
It's because she loved the choice as a mother. I
love you. I did. A pro Joyce moment is when
she wakes up at the hospital and Giles is there,
obviously to.

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
Like information Buffy that moment, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:17):
And then she's like, why are you Why are you here?
And he says, so, I'm just here a pair of respects,
and she's like, wow, the teachers really care at the
school and.

Speaker 2 (01:23:26):
The way that she's like asking him questions and she's
like and then and then she says, well, her friend
Darla was here earlier, and he goes, Darla was here
and he's like and then then she was like, oh, yeah,
she saw me faint. She's probably feeling really someone should
check on her. And he's like, yeah, I'm gonna go
drag on her. And she's like, oh my god, that's
so nice, Joyce. Were you guys scared? Raise your hands?

(01:23:50):
I mean too, I was really scared. Raise your hands
if you were scared. No, that's my worst part. Yeah,
what's your best part?

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
My best person to shoot out? I love literally the
moment Darla whips out those guns until the moment Darla
is dusted. I am not even blinking. I'm staring eagle
eyed at that TV. I don't want to miss a second.
It is television, it is camp, it is silly. I'm
so obsessed Julia Ben's holding in full vamp face, holding

(01:24:23):
two pistols at her tits and speaking with a lisp.
It does not get better than that. You been sick.
Bullets can't kill vampires like hell. I also love Julie Ben's,

(01:24:43):
which she has said in an interview. This is one
of the reasons that she got cast as Darla because
they thought it was fun for someone with this kind
of speaking voice to be evil. But she has this
like cartoony doll voice where she kind of says everything
up here and like, I'm up.

Speaker 2 (01:25:03):
I'm helping Buffy with her revolutions.

Speaker 3 (01:25:08):
Her.

Speaker 1 (01:25:09):
My gosh, she's so cool. She's so funny.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
That's good.

Speaker 1 (01:25:15):
You're hurting me, that's good too, Like girl, I'm obsessed
with you. Darling Sentry, big bad above.

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
The I love her so much, we will miss you. Excited.

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
Also her believe she was dusted, also anti grooming her
seeing that Angel is hitting on a high schooler and
the face by being like I noticed dressing as a
Catholic school girl and being like, I noticed you're into
high schoolers. You like bitch. She said, I see you.

Speaker 2 (01:25:50):
She said, I see you. You look ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (01:25:58):
M Darla.

Speaker 2 (01:26:03):
I will miss you. So Michael Mars, your family misses you.

Speaker 1 (01:26:09):
Darla. We still talk about you.

Speaker 2 (01:26:12):
Darla. I can't believe.

Speaker 1 (01:26:15):
Can I tell you? Can I tell you something?

Speaker 2 (01:26:18):
This is.

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
The show her in harmony. I do want to say
one final joke speaking of Dara that I forgot about,
which is full lisp Darla in the Bronze going up
to Buffy and saying, do you know what the fattest
thing in the world is? And Buffy saying bad hair
with that outfit.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
I love Buffy Summers so much the way that she
can't help but read the people that she's.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
About to murder a fast gay icon.

Speaker 2 (01:26:48):
Genuinely, I know I And that's the thing too, is
I'm so glad we're doing the Buffy podcast because the
Gleeks need to be watching.

Speaker 1 (01:26:56):
I agree, I agree, and.

Speaker 2 (01:26:59):
Buffy is gay famous, that's true. But I think to
the younger.

Speaker 1 (01:27:03):
Generation, we're losing queer history.

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
Yes, and we need to pay a restart.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
You need to remember why the L comes first and
lgbt Q, and you need to remember Buffy Summers. We
are losing queer history.

Speaker 2 (01:27:14):
Okay, number one, number two exactly, those are the two things.
The l is first, Buffy Summers, Fuck you guys. My
best part, if you want to ask, sorry, okay, and
I got just I distracted. I got distracted too because

(01:27:35):
I was so excited. So don't you worry. Don't you worry. Okay,
My best part is and I'm sorry, I'm sorry. You're
gonna hate it. Oh my god, the gothic drama of Angel.
I love it. I love it. I love there's only
one bed. I love the bird and the neck. I

(01:27:55):
love the killing your ex to prove your loyalty. And
also just like it is interesting. I'm always very interested
in a vampire who who is remorseful and then becomes
like some you know, like who feels bad about you know,
the self hating vampire. I always just love that. I
always love that, and this one is just the most

(01:28:16):
iconic to me. I think, obviously my feelings about Angel
are complicated as a character, but this is awesome and
I'm obsessed. Yeah, I was just I was so excited
to watch this episode, and I hope that the people
who are watching it along with us were as excited.
By these reveals as I was, so heck.

Speaker 1 (01:28:37):
Yeah, heck yeah, that's Angel the episode, not the TV show,
not the character. If you want more of our podcast,
first of all, there's a whole back dialog. Did you
hear we cover Glee all one hundred and twenty episodes. Also,
we had a Patreon and a Patreon. We do have
a lot of a bonus episodes. We just did one

(01:29:00):
last month on Tictoking Boom or maybe two months ago
if it's coming out in July. I honestly don't know
when this is coming out. I've lost track. Yeah, we
got a ton of bonus episodes on there. If you
become a best friend of the podcast, you can vote
on what bonus episodes you want us to cover. You
can also see videos of the podcast that have little
pre shows beforehand, and if you're best on the podcast,

(01:29:21):
you get a special shout out. So we're gonna stick
that shout out in now. Hi, answers on the podcast,
here's your shout out, thanks for being patrons. I'm gonna
try and give Kate Bush. We'll see how it goes well.

Speaker 3 (01:29:33):
I'm side of Jack Anna. Can there's Eliza get depressed?
Bob Lasaid and Nicky Come. I had a Muti pre
on Ajp, Tanya, Katherine, Rachel Drugerstein, Canaan Play, Rachel Allison, Meghan, Audrey, Meghan,
Alexandra Kyney, Dustin Aza, Jayden, Paul and Julia Chas In

(01:29:55):
a While, Donna to Lane, Dianga, tost Hey, Reagan, Baby Poop,
Joel Madela, Ammoni, Elie's London, Anie's Page Nan, I'm the
call Lobbing, Christen Story Early the Mamali Hamada, Rebecca Lassata,
call him Frank Game, More's Beina, Emily phoebe Only, I

(01:30:17):
have a Hennie Emily Shall check the love with Hey,
I'm a stuff mother, be Cat, Charlie Kelsey, Thomas, charge
Child bred Me, Kensey, Michael, Cannie, Elsbon Freddy.

Speaker 1 (01:30:30):
I think that was giving tiny tim mostly no ding
ding ding great job to whichever one of us is
whose turn it is, I don't remember. It's yours great
job to me.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
I always remember, because it's whoever is doing the fun.

Speaker 1 (01:30:47):
Facts, the fun fact see, and you're smart about that
kind of stuff. I'm always find by the pants on that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:52):
Hey, I'm a pattern girl, I love pattern.

Speaker 1 (01:30:55):
I remember slacks I'm odds your events, I keep that straight.
But Patrion, I'm always like, whichever whatever vibe I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:31:04):
Feeling, well, it's that, it's that too, it's I'm even
z your odds.

Speaker 1 (01:31:10):
Yeah, I just have never put that together.

Speaker 2 (01:31:13):
Also, hey, but that's that's the truth here.

Speaker 1 (01:31:15):
If you're enjoying this podcast one, follow us on social
media at Recovery at RG presents, Underscore Podcast, pardon Me, insacrip, TikTok,
Send us an email if you got thoughts Recovering Week
at gmail dot com. We'd love to hear thoughts specifically
first time watchers. Did you know he was a vampire?
What did you think was going on? I genuinely have
to know.

Speaker 2 (01:31:34):
I have to know. I literally had to call a
friend last night because I had to know.

Speaker 1 (01:31:38):
She had to use one of her lifelines. She had
to phone a friend.

Speaker 2 (01:31:40):
That's the only one to get this season. Yeah, please
let me know, don't let me, don't make me phone
a friend, email me instead.

Speaker 1 (01:31:47):
Also, I would love to know your thoughts on Queen
Mother Darla. I'm obsessed with her. Let us know. Hello, everyone,
this is Ian and Lena from the Future. Can you
believe we're starting a new thing in lieu of Benni's
We're just gonna have a little like email segment in
the episode's proper. So this is recorded weeks weeks after

(01:32:09):
we recorded this episode on the pack that you, I
mean an Angel part of me that you're listening to.
It's old news that he's a vampire. But we're gonna
share some thoughts that people sent us, either about just
the show generically or about last week's episode the pack.

Speaker 2 (01:32:24):
Let's hear from Celia, shall we? Also, I have to
tell you, guys, I've had some mic troubles. Okay, I
know you just heard them, and I'm sorry, And hopefully
this sounds better. I am on a journey, Okay, be
gentle with me. I thought so bad too, because like
Angel is such a huge episode, and I know that

(01:32:45):
even people who like are just trying to like tune in,
are going to tune into that one, and I was like, God,
I really fucked it. So hopefully this sounds a little better.
And be gentle with me, you guys, I love you.

Speaker 1 (01:32:58):
We're trying our best. Be nice, Celia says hi Leena
and Ian. I've been listening on and off since twenty
twenty because I go through phases where I cannot consume
Glee content for my mental well being lol. But ever
since Minnisode six, The Buffy Long Con, I have been
hoping and wishing and praying for you guys to do
a Buffy podcast because it is my favorite show of

(01:33:22):
all time, and I'm obsessed with your podcast dynamic. I've
genuinely never found your podcasting equal. Oh Celia, my god,
Hello waitness second, Hi, thank you. I'm emailing because I
have some interesting information about the whereabouts of the surfer
dude guying computer class on IMDb from episode two The Harvest.

(01:33:46):
I love your head canon that Buffy fully murdered him,
but I also feel compelled to let you know that
his actor, Jeffery Stephen Smith, comes back in episode six.
The Pack Buffering interviewed him in their covered of the
episode back in twenty sixteen, and he mentions that his
line in The Harvest is not his actual voice, but
another actor is dubbed over. With this knowledge, I feel

(01:34:09):
like there's two possibilities. Either it's the same character both times,
or the difference in voices delineates two separate characters, and
your theory that he dies is correct. Anyways, I'm a
huge friend of the podcast, and I can't wait for
you to get to season two, episode three, School Hard,
where two of the most iconic vampires ever make their debut.

(01:34:29):
I'm sure that I'll continue to email in my thoughts
because I have thousands. Keep on slaying Celia, she her Celia.
I also can't wait to get to Schoolheart, Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
My god, and I can't wait to hear all your thoughts.
Keep sending them.

Speaker 1 (01:34:42):
Oh hell yeah. But for the time being, Computer Guy
he appears in the pack. For those who don't know,
he appears in the pack when the titular Pack is doing,
in Lena's words, their Saint Trinian Slama walk, and then
they start like that movie mess. I have not seeing
that movie. I'm gonna I'm gonna let you go on

(01:35:02):
a secret. That entire episode, I was like, I have
no clue what they Then after the slow moll walk,
they start like messing around with someone's lunch table and
that's when they smell Herbert and then they run and
they eat Herbert. And Surfer Dude is the dude at

(01:35:24):
the lunch table who's stuff they're messing with, and he
has like one line is yeah, yeah, yeah, So that's
that's it. So he's computer guy who talks to Cordelia,
Harmony and the Harvest, and then he's kid at the table.
What are your thoughts? Is it same guy? Is a
two separate guys?

Speaker 2 (01:35:42):
I love this. I think it's I like the other
idea that it's two separate guys. Like that makes me
excited and like maybe they're like maybe their brothers, maybe
their cousins.

Speaker 1 (01:35:53):
Yes, I love it. I'm seeing a twin situation. One
had the dubbed in voice, Twin two gets his lunch
fucked with, and Twin one is dead. Buffy did stab
him at the Bronze, and that's why Twin two is
like so emotional about the messing with his lunch. Is

(01:36:14):
He's like, haven't I.

Speaker 2 (01:36:14):
Been had a tough couple months.

Speaker 1 (01:36:17):
He's grieving, he's in the process of grieving, and now
someone's gonna take his lunch. That's not fair.

Speaker 2 (01:36:22):
No, it's fucked up it.

Speaker 1 (01:36:24):
Yeah, it is crazy to me one that they dubbed
in his voice in The Harvest. I'm glad they did
because it's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (01:36:30):
Oh it's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:36:32):
I do find it funny that whoever directed that episode
was like, yeah, do it this way, and then they
saw the tapes and they were like, this isn't fucking
stupid enough. Someone else in He needs to sound stupider.
We need someone in the boof. We're gonna ad r this.
So he sounds like a moron to.

Speaker 2 (01:36:51):
Have a conversation with the person who decided that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:53):
Oh my god, I love it too. I love it.
And also it's interesting because Buffy is a show hasn't
happened really yet, but it is a show that loves
to bring people back and loves to have just kind
of like characters that fill out the world. So it
feels like if they brought it back for the pack,
that they were going that route. But then he never
shows up again.

Speaker 2 (01:37:13):
I wonder.

Speaker 1 (01:37:15):
I think the pack kills him. Oh his brother died
in the harvest. He dies in the pack.

Speaker 2 (01:37:21):
Damn, this poor family going.

Speaker 1 (01:37:24):
Through it really unlucky. Really, it's a shame.

Speaker 2 (01:37:28):
Yeah, I know, Well that's the hell malf you.

Speaker 1 (01:37:33):
That's the hell maul for you. And then his sister
was in that bus crash.

Speaker 2 (01:37:37):
From shut up. Has this family been through enough?

Speaker 1 (01:37:42):
Stop? That's that's tragic. Anyways, Celia, think for your thoughts
thank you for joining us for these five years of podcast.
I'm so happy to have you up.

Speaker 2 (01:37:52):
Next, let's hear an email from Haley. Shall we hi, babies?

Speaker 1 (01:37:57):
I started Buffy when y'all announce this new chapter of
the pod, and I actually I need to take that
back because I need this to sink in with everyone. Yeah,
I started Buffy when y'all announced this new chapter of
the pod. Let's all remember we announced this in what
was it like? April? And I just finished literally three

(01:38:21):
minutes ago, and all I have to say is wow,
thank you both so much. This show has changed my life.

Speaker 3 (01:38:30):
Ah.

Speaker 1 (01:38:31):
It is also making me upset that I have to
wait years for y'all to discuss seasons five through seven,
So I am proposing a Patreon spoiler filled bonus episode.
It can be a completely different tier. I would pay
so much money to hear y'all's expedited thoughts on the
series as a whole, and it would also be so
interesting to see how your opinions on things change after

(01:38:54):
you're done with the rewatch. Anyway, I love you guys
for enriching my life and countless ways. I'm rooting for
y'all every step of the way. And Okay, fine, I'll
be patient. Buffy is just so lean and ian and
also very me coded and it is the perfect show
and I'm about to be so annoying about it. Consensual
hugs and kisses, Haley.

Speaker 2 (01:39:15):
Okay, Hailey, you don't know how much this email means
to Ian and I. Yeah, this fills my heart with
love and joy. You have no idea what you said
to us. Thank you literally so much for telling us.
And I am so deeply pleased to hear that you

(01:39:39):
feel like Buffy is you coded because I feel that too,
and it is so lovely to hear that you know
us cleeaks in us, like we like share that, and
then also we can like share Buffy as well. Like

(01:40:02):
I cannot tell you how much I love to hear this.
Thank you so much, and I'm sincerely so glad that
you enjoyed Buffy.

Speaker 1 (01:40:14):
It's so ridiculous whenever someone like watches Buffy for the
first time and absolutely loves it. Yeah, I feel pride
as if I had.

Speaker 2 (01:40:23):
As if I wrote it, as if I wrote it.

Speaker 1 (01:40:27):
But it's just like you had the same experience we
were not. We're too young to have watched it live.
So like we were watching it alone. Like I did
not know a soul who was watching Buffy, and the
friends I had who were watching Buffy were only watching
it because I had to convince them to watch it,
and then, much like Hayley, they loved it. So it's

(01:40:49):
so nice to hear that it's hitting and that people
love it.

Speaker 2 (01:40:55):
I that that is my exact, like my exact experience
right now. Like A, I remember finding out that you
liked Buffy and like you were like one of my
first friends ever who liked Buffy, and I was just
so excited and like, Buffy has been my comfort by
myself thing for so long, and it feels so crazy

(01:41:16):
to share it like this, but also it feels so good.
It feels awesome. Oh my god, I'm having such a
good time and I'm so glad.

Speaker 1 (01:41:27):
As far as like a spoiler thoughts Patreon, I'm not
gonna I like, who knows, maybe we'll do that. I
don't know. But we did. When we were wrapping up
Glee and we knew we were going on to another show,
we did a series of like pilot episodes of different
TV shows we were thinking about that we released straight

(01:41:48):
onto Patreon, and each of those episodes, we were not
like we like watched the pilot and we're talking a
little bit about the pilot, but it was fully spoiler filled.
We were just talking about our thoughts on the show
as a whole. And so we're chatting about some season
five through seven stuff on our Buffy episode on our Patreon,

(01:42:08):
So we do that could set your appetite a little bit,
me talk about some stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:42:14):
Oh and also if you want, if you want spoilers
right now, we were on the Swift Floor podcast talking
Buffy and Taylor Swift and we talked this is very
fucking crazy hell of spoilers on that episode. So if
you want spoilers r M and just quick thoughts of ours,
you can also tune into that as well. But also,
I'm so excited to talk about everything with you.

Speaker 1 (01:42:37):
I'm very excited to get to all that. I'm excited
for the journey, excited to do this with you. Excited
have you listening, and thanks for emailing in. If you
have thoughts, send them to our covering Greek at gmail
dot com. And now back to the episode proper.

Speaker 2 (01:42:50):
Bye bye, love you.

Speaker 1 (01:42:54):
If you like this podcast, you guys, it'd be really
cool if you rated and reviewed it. Yeah, we genuinely
love doing this podcast. We have a great time. We
love spending time together, we love this TV show, We
love hearing from all of you. This podcast is a
lot of work and we would love it to reach
more people. And one of the best ways to get

(01:43:15):
it to reach more people is for it to get
more ratings, because then it gets recommended to more people.
So if you're having a good time, we'd really appreciate
it a little. Rate and review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
Shout out, shout out, shout out, and love you guys,
Love you, Thanks for listening.

Speaker 2 (01:43:31):
We'll see you later. We'll see you next week. For you, Jane,
here is a kiss on your forehead. If you accept it,
We'll see you later.

Speaker 1 (01:43:43):
Thank you for listening. Follow us at Recovering Gleek Underscore podcast.
Email us at Recovering Gleek at giba dot com, join
our Patreon Patreon dot com, slash Recovering Gleek, Rate and
review us and tell your friends.

Speaker 2 (01:43:54):
Please.

Speaker 1 (01:43:55):
I'm so so glad they brought out pistols. If I
am pro gun control, I don't like guns. I'm so
glad Darla had a gun.

Speaker 2 (01:44:05):
Give darla a gun, Give Darla a gun.