BtVS S1E9 The Puppet Show

Buffy and friends deal with the teen struggles of stage fright, and a mystical force killing off their classmates in the school talent show.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, it's Ian from the future. Before we get into
the episode proper, I just wanted to put a little disclaimer.
I was having massive technical difficulties when we recorded this
and ended up having to record it over my phone
instead of my laptop, and boy, can you tell. So
I just want to apologize for my mic quality. We

(00:20):
were doing our best with the resources we had at
the time. My apologies, and enjoy the episode. Oh my gosh,
what's an interesting thing to talk about. Why did I
commit to having these cold opens?

Speaker 2 (00:34):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Recovering Gleek presents.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
A clear Buffy podcast. Hi everyone, I'm Lena and Diamy
and welcome to HIA like we're Buffy podcast. Thanks for
being here. Oh wow, I'm happy to have you.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
I'm happy to have you too. And I'm all stressed
because we're stripping the audio straight from so we had
technical difficulties, and by we, I mean specifically me. Long
story short, the audio.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
We're good on my part.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, Lena is really she's really a hole in it
down with the Wi Fi and I'm really fighting for
my life and I'm gonna have to strip the audio
straight from our riverside recording from our video, and because
we don't pay for Riverside, because we're broke, we are,
I can't export our audios separately. I can only export

(01:41):
them together. So now I'm like, oh my gosh. I mean,
I have edited on the riversite before, and I'm pretty
sure I still can do stuff like if we're talking
over each other, I can like mute one of us
or like spread them apart. So we actually should be fine.
But I'm just in I I'm distressed about it. I'm
just stress. But it's okay because we're gonna have a

(02:02):
great time. We're gonna talk about puppet Master, and everything's
gonna be great.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Should I grab my puppet who Jigsu?

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yes, you should bring Jigsue. What is your history? This
is actually a great question to start puppet Master Season one,
episode nine above the vampires Layer, Lena is joined by
jig Sue, made by friend of the podcast, Brittany. What's
your history with puppets? Lena, Nina?

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Nina my history with puppets. I don't think I really
have a history with puppets. I'm like, not particularly. I
don't think I was as a kid. I'm not afraid
of puppets now, I like did puppet shows for like
church stuff, but it was always like paper bag puppets.
Like it was never like straight up like Marionette or

(02:55):
any sort of Ventriloqui. I mean, growing up that ventriloquist
comedian was really popular, but I thought he was too
raunchy for me, so I didn't really get into ventriloquisition.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, I done them. Was that his name?

Speaker 2 (03:07):
I don't I could not tell you, but.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
I know who you're talking about. Yeah, And I also
felt the same way. I was like so scandalized by him.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, I did not think that was appropriate, And honestly,
I look back at shit of his and I'm like, honestly,
good for me for being scandalized by that.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah, a lot of it, if I remember, it was
pretty racist.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Super racist, Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
So.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, I didn't really fuck with ventriloquy, but only because
the ventriloquists who were famous when I was a kid
were gross. I really, honestly, I don't know much about puppets.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Hell yeah, dolls do they look content? Oh?

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Hell yeah? But I like, yeah, I like haunted dolls good.
I also I have some haunted dolls myself. I like,
I like stuff but I don't really know about puppets,
so I don't anyway. What's your history of pumps?

Speaker 1 (04:05):
First, I want to say I do one. I've literally
never seen a Jeff Dunham performance ever. I think I've
seen like a ten second clip once, so I actually like, yeah,
don't really know anything about him, but to my memory,
it was pretty racist. And also, like you said, I
remember like hearing kids of school talking about it being
like that sounds so raunchy. I do want to shout

(04:27):
out that I think it is very funny to be
like the bad boy of ventriloquism, like the nerdiest like.
I'm not defending the racist jokes that done him told,
but I do think it's funny. It's like the bad

(04:50):
boy of chess. I think that's funny and silly.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Come on, I think that thought is funnier than anything
Jeff Dunham has ever done.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
So I love that I was the bad boy of puppetry.
As a kid, I was a big Muppets kid, as
you know, I loved the puppets. Yes, my mom, Oh yeah, wait,
what video have you seen just.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Like showed us all your mom's puppets.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Oh no, this is fully from Props. This is from
the Props episode when I recorded it from my bedroom,
I think, and I.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Just like had yes, oh my god, Yeah, let's run
that back.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
And I was showing you because of Props, the episode
of Glee. Yes, because I recorded that from my childhood bedroom,
because we recorded over Thanksgiving, which might be the jenf
genesis of a certain running bit we have and you
can find on our defunct YouTube channel that like, there's
a video of me showing stuff in my bedroom and

(05:51):
I find an old puppet of my mom's. My mom
was a child had a ventriloquis dummy much like in
this episode named Chester that was like the same deal
where it's like wooden Head with the job of like
Matt Matt, Matt Matt. And then he was in a

(06:12):
just a shirt with no arms, so that you would
stick one of your human hands through the sleeve like
you were the Swedish chef, and he'd have like a
human hand. And I played with Chester a lot as
a kid, to the point that I broke the mechanism
that controls his jaw, sorry moms. And then when I
was in fifth grade, we went to San Francisco and

(06:37):
there was a puppet store on Fisherman's Wharf, and I
bought a like hippies monkey puppet that had like a
bandanna and like purple sunglasses, and I don't remember I
named him Charlie. And I used to do at my
elementary school on Friday mornings, we would have video announcements

(07:00):
and I would do the video announcements as Charlie the Monkey,
so I wouldn't be I didn't never learn ventriloquism. I
wasn't about to like pretend I wasn't moving my voice.
I was into Muppets, and Charlie was like the Muppets
where he had the rods under his arms, and so
I would control them. I actually, like for like a

(07:21):
ten year old, got pretty good at it, and so
my friend, I think it was one of my friends,
would be one of the co hosts and she would
just be sitting there and then I would be laying
on the ground under the desk and hold up Charlie
and do the other announcements as Charlie the Monkeys. And
I did get bullied, but not by other kids, by
my own siblings, and so I still so I stopped

(07:47):
doing this is like me me in fifth grade I
would wear shorts to school with knee length argyle socks.
I would wear newsboy caps, and then I had like
a monkey puppet that I would carry around.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
You are so precious to me. You are my best friend.
I love you. That's so awesome.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
And I was the coolest kid there. And I was
the coolest kid there.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
So that's my cool. There was a period of my
life when I was like nine to eleven years old
where if you asked me what my dream job was,
it was to work at Jim Henson Studios and be
one of the puppeteers for the Muppets. Yeah, and then
it did kind of get bullied out of me a
bit by my.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
Words.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
But that's my puppet history.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
I love that. I love that. I feel like my
most of my puppet history, I would say, is like
as an adult, like I like horror stuff, and I
like appreciate like Chucky and Song stuff like that. And
I was like learning more about movies, like I appreciate
like a practical like monster puppet stuff like that. I

(09:08):
we know it was not a Muppet kid, but I
think all that is really sick.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
Hey, I to this day, you know, I think puppeteering
is cool. I think puppetearing is fun and cool, and
obviously I'm I'm a muppet adult. But then beyond that,
like you said, I will take a practical monster over
a CGI monster any day. The artistry in a puppet monster,

(09:33):
I'm obsessed. I love so impressive.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
I just think it's even like in like Jurassic Park,
like you know the dinosaurs that they make breathe, like
the one this Jurassic World I don't remember, but the
one that's like the Stegosaurus that's like lying down and like, no,
that is practical puppet that is the original. Oh yes,

(10:01):
then I remembering right. But it's just so oh my god,
it's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
It's so impressive.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
Shut me, so beautiful.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
I love a puppet and that's and that's why I
don't like this dumb ass trend in theme parks where
they're like put on these three D glasses and look
at these screens. It's like you're in the movie. I
don't fucking care if it's the actual actor in front
of me on a TV screen. I would rather have
a shitty statue of Harrison Ford that can only move

(10:31):
its neck back and forth. That's so much more exciting
to me than like Harrison Ford came into a studio
for five hours and recorded some lines, and now I'm
seeing it in these three D glasses. I will always
take something that looks less believable but is tangible over
some CGI or screen nonsense. There is a reason that

(10:53):
Peter Pan has been open for sixty years, bitch, is
because those statues are in the room with you. It's cool.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Peak on it. King, that was awesome.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Bring back puppets.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
I will tell you I while I'm not afraid of puppets,
I really am afraid of animatronics. Okay, And to talk
about Jurassic World, the Jurassic Jurassic Park, the Jurassic Park
ride in Universal.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Oh, one of the best of all time, one of
the best to ever do. It is the Jurassic Park.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
You can't get my ass on that ride over again.
I saw a Dinosaurs are another irrational fear of mine.
Why am I so afraid of dinosaurs? Jurassic Park really
scared me as a kid, But I hate that ride.
It's so scary. And I saw a video of people
going through it with the house lights on or the
worklights on, so you just see Oh my god. It literally,

(11:52):
I'm serious, makes me sick. Like you see the big
t rex.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
And it's just like a disbot of your head.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah yeah, just with its little arms just hanging there
and then he wakes. Oh, oh my god, it makes
me sick.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
Girl. I did so a Disneyland, no disney World. Part
of me an Animal Kingdom obviously, like this ride is
actually it's kind of intense. So I take back what
I was gonna say. But there was a ride that
is tragically closed called Dinosaur in Disney World and Animal Kingdom.
I not only did it with the lights on, I
walked it with the lights on. They took the ride

(12:28):
vehicles out and they had the if you were there,
was like a special like I won a little lottery,
a cast member lottery, and we got to like walk
through it with the lights on. Yeah, and it's me
like the carnosaur's head is just like on a metal
rod and it's like just lying there dead and then
it wakes up and the rod swings in. I was

(12:49):
eating it up. I was like, this is magic, this
is incredible.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
I loved it because the jaws at universal when he
gets he Oh my god, that makes me sick it really,
I think animatronics.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
What are we talking about? Like the Jaws ride, what
are we talking about here?

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Like the Universal backlot?

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah yeah, where you see and he like jumps out
but you got it? Yeah, yeahtronic. I love it. Animatronic.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
No, I hate him. And I also hate like abandoned
animatronics to like in basements where they were people's like
Disney and like post pictures like it genuinely makes me sick.
Or when you see them like the Stitch, I like,
I don't know why these keep finding me. Probably Jenny
Nicholson videos or something, but like like like Stitch without
his fur on, so it's just like a Stitch skeleton

(13:39):
or something. Oh my god, makes me. I hate shit
like that.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
I love shit like that. This is where you and
I are diametrically opposed. And one of my favorite things
is seeing reused animatronics where like the ride closed down
and so they just rebranded it in some way. So
like on Star Tours, when you're walking in the line
of Star Tours, there's that little robot guy who's like

(14:03):
checking the bags and just like saying one liners as
you walk past them in line. And that's an old
Goose animatronic that they just ripped the skin off of
and that's just like the skeleton. There's also like a
in Rise of the Resistance there. I think it is.

(14:23):
I think it's Finn. I think it is a thin
animatronic that is fully just re skinned Sigourney Weaver from
the Great Movie Ride so funny.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
Also scares me? What scares me?

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah? See, this is a former dream job of mine.
Also is I wanted to be an imagineer for a
long time, and then I was like, that's a lot
of math, and I don't really enjoy doing math, and
so I I gave up that dream. But I wanted
to be I wanted to operate puppets and I wanted
to make animatronics. Yeah, and look at me now talking
about with the Vampire Slayer instead. Kind of awesome, kind

(15:05):
of awesome this episode.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
No, no, not about how much anatronics scare me. So
we should probably stop.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
Let's talk about Bubby the Vampire Slayer. Puppet Master? Is
that what it's called? Puppet show? I keep saying puppet Master.
I think it is not show. It's puppet show.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
I swear to god it's puppet I kept writing a puppet.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
It's because we're thinking of the episode of Glee called
puppet Master, Babe.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
That's so fucking funny. I don't think I knew it
was called show at all.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
That's called called the puppet Show. There's no Blaine getting
high off of gas on this episode. Okay, here are
your flacks. The Puppet Show is an episode of The
Vampire Slayer. It is the ninth episode of season one.

(15:55):
It was written by Rob des Hotel and Dean Batali,
who wrote you may remember Never Kill a Boy on
the First Date. Hey, And they write a few more
episodes throughout season two, and then they write that video
game as well. It was directed by Ellen s Pressman,
her first episode directing for The Vampire Slayer. It was
released on May fifth, nineteen ninety seven. Okay, so this

(16:22):
episode features the first appearance of a soon to be
a recurring character named Princeill Snyder, someone who's very important
to Lena and I. He's played He's played by Armand Shimmerman.
Long time listeners to the podcast may remember that Lee

(16:45):
and I are Arman. Armand Arman worked with Armine Shimmerman
once I Love. We talked such a big game about
how we worked with armand Shimerman. We talked to him
one time period we.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Were so we were at the closing night a party
because it was our last chest. Yes, we worked with
him for like six seven months, you guys.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
And literally all that would happen is we would just
every company party be like, do you think Armon will
be there? And then we would just look at him
from across the room, never spoke to him. And then
on the closing night, like Lena said, we finally it
was frankly Alex. Yeah, So I'll give some more context.
So we were in a repertory theater season that he

(17:32):
was in, but it was like eight shows happening at once, yes,
and we were not in a single show that Armon
was in. He was he was.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
A musical kid that summer.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, he was Polonius in Hamlet, which we were not in.
But Alex was in Hamlet, my brother he was the
night Watchman and Macbeth what's the character's name, doesn't matter,
the night Watchman. And then he was a character in
The Price who I don't remember the name of, but
not one of the brothers. He's like the guy who

(18:04):
comes to buy the stuff. Anyway, So he was in
those three shows. We were in none of those shows,
so we didn't interact with him at all, and we
would literally just bother Alex constantly be like what does
armand like is he cool? Whatever? Whatever, And finally it
got to the point where Alex was like, I think
you should introduce yourselves. He's really nice. And also because

(18:26):
our fear was we didn't want to be annoying, which
I can't understand, but I was just like, no, he
actually like someone brought up like Cork and Star Trek Cork,
and he was really cool about it and like really
gracious and excited to talk about being in Star Trek.
So I think he actually would be flattered. And so
the closing night party, we came up to them fully,

(18:46):
like Lena said, we've been working in the same company
with him for like six months, We've.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Shared space with him for a long time.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
We called We're like, hi Aremond. We just wanted to
say we I think we were like, you've done a
great job in your show's this season, which he did
in fairness, he was amazing, and we were like, we
just want to say we're really big fans of Buy
the Vampires.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
I think I even said like Buffy changed my life,
and we we were like, we just love Principal Snyders
so much. We think he is so fun and so awesome,
and we're so glad you were such a big character.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
And he was. He was like incredibly gracious. He was
so nice.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
I frankly don't remember most of the conversation, but it
wasn't like, oh thank you, that's so sweet, Like he
did sit and talk to us for a bit about
the TV show and how much like how proud he
is to have been a part of it.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah, it was really sweet. And it was also it
was closing night, so it was also like everyone was
like packing up to leave the next day. And I
remember watching him as he left and he turned to
like look at the theater and like take it all
in before he left, and I was like, arman, I
love you.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
I love.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
He was serious. I don't that he ever saw our shows.
He's a he's a big deal. He's a big gap
from the festival. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, yeah, you don't think he was. He was sap
for Joseph in The Amazing Dream Code.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
He's like loss in Joseph an Amazing Technical or dream code.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah right.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Anyway, all this to say, we're huge principal Snyder heads
Snyder Snyder.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
Welcome to the Snyder Verse. This Snyder question principal the.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Only Snyder Verse that I recognize.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
So shout out armand Shimmerman. He's on this TV show
Finally Love You Forever and the other st about this episode.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
I was like, do you think we could get him
on the podcast because I don't think we could.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Be like, hey, m so we spoke once were years ago.
We have a podcast about this TV show that you
were in twenty was five years ago.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
Ask him.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
We have to go much love, We have to go
higher than Alex.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Okay, we can get the guy who played Hamlet to
do it. Yeah, yeah, peace and love. We were not
huge part. I'm talking. I'm talking to someone on Hinge
who saw Joseph and they were like, who were you?
And I was like, you're not, And.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
You're like, you're not gonna know one of the ishmaelights.
You heard, the hairy ishmael eights, one of them with
the camel I bought Joseph. That's every time, not lights.

(21:46):
Every time I listened to Joseph with anyone I always
go I was here, yes, no, when we did to
the brothers in Egypt, I was going, be quiet. It's
my line because literally my only line of dialogue that
entire show was and if we have the time, we

(22:07):
could see the sphinx. That was it. So I was like,
everyone shut up, it's my soul, it's my solo. Arvin
Shimmerman saw me do this. He loved it.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
I was wearing blue.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Hey, you were one of the fairwets I was.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
I mean, like an average watcher of the show six
years ago doesn't remember that.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
You said you don't remember a pharaoh story.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Remember that it was Mesten. They should remember. But that's
the thing is I was in the show like a lot,
Like I was doing a lot in the show. I
was running around.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
But you didn't say, when we have, if we have
the time, we can see the sphinx.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
And you know what, and you know what, I'm talking
to a star over here, and I need to remember
my plan.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Put some respect on isakas name.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
I know you know who else played is a car
at the Utah Shakespeare put.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
It all comes back, it all comes back. I think
I think we could get him on the podcast. Yeah, Anyways,
tune in soon. We're gonna have our mention for Min
and map Over on the pod to talk about Okay,
we do have to talk about these slacks. So because
there are as always so many of them, it's just

(23:27):
a treasure trove of background information. So the Puppet Show
was the lowest watching episode of all time for the
Vampire Slayer, lowest watching numbers of the entire series, shout out.
There are a few moments in this episode that are
ad libbed. Xander with the puppet going ram with an

(23:50):
ad lib, and then Willow during the Oedipus rec scene
at the very end during the credits when Willow runs
off stage, that was an ad lib. Also, that Oedipus
Rex scene during the credits is the first and only
credit scene in the entirety of Buffy the Vampires there

(24:10):
at one time and they said, love it perfect, we
don't have any to do it again, and that scene.
That scene was included in the original airing of the
episode and then was cut from subsequent airings until the
show left the WB and moved to UPN, and then
it got put back in during subsequent airrings.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
I think it's funny.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
I think the reason it was cut is there is
a note that the network was like, hey, we realized
that that scene at the end is from Shakespeare, but
we don't think it's appropriate that he's talking about sleeping
with his mom, and it's like one not from Shakespeare,
it's from Oedipus Rex.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
We know because we've worked at Shakespeare.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Come. We know because we worked with Armine Shimmermann out
of Shakespeare Festival.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
What hamlets Hamlet?

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Something is rotten in the state of Denmark and it is.
It's a WB's pit attitude. So I think that the
WB was uncomfortable with the oedipal complex of it all,
and so they cut it.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Is interesting they picked Oedipus. I thought that was weird,
but I mean I learned about Oedipus in like eighth grade.
Like it's whatever.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
Well, originally they were doing Streetcar and the original script
is Streetcar. Hella, that would be awesome, and Xander is Stanley,
of course, and then Willa Stella and Buffy is Blanche,
which hear me out across the board, perfect casting, genuinely.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, no, I think that's great, but.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
I think I don't know, I mean, is funnier.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
It's like It's totally like these kids don't know about theater.
They probably read about Oedipus last exactly and they just
like picked like literally the expert the excerpt from their
textbook like this exactly. To me, I think this is like,
like they don't know about theater. If they don't know
shit about Oedipus, they're just doing They just like kind

(26:01):
of picked something.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
I love it. I think it's that's one hundred percent
like Streetcar. You need to know like a little bit
about theater to pick street Car. But I so agree.
That's why I love Oedipie is it's like, huh, everything
you just said. Some pop culture references in this episode
is Cordelia the song that she's into the Talent show
is the Greatest Level of All made famous for Witen

(26:23):
Houston Xander at one point when when they were suspecting
Sid but then Sid ends up being innocent, but then
Sid goes missing and Xander says, does anyone feel like
they got Kaiser Sosid? Which is a reference to the
Usual Suspects. Some non pop culture references is This episode

(26:45):
sets up a long running theme in this show, which
is Willow's fear of stage fright. It is something that
comes up or at least like has joked about a
couple of times. A cut joke from this episode that
I thought was funny so I stuck in is in
the scene where Buffy is interrogating the tuba player. Buffy

(27:05):
says to her but tells her about her act, that
it was pretty good. I never heard flight of the
Bumblebee on the tuba before, and the tuba player says,
most people aren't up to it.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
I think that's awesome funny. That tuba player was funny.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
I know, I liked her and Sid.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
Answer rivalry, you know.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
I love that joke, and then Buffy's response being I
heard about that so much. It's such a perfect just
a perfect little joke I love. I love a line
like that that just so casually opens up the most

(27:51):
ridiculous lore we've ever heard about, and that it's immediately
acknowledged by the other player, by the other person as
like this is the most normal thing ever, Like we
all know the dancers and the band kids hate each
other and they're not allowed to speak to each other. Ah.
I think that is so funny. I'm Sid the ventriloquist
dummy does not return obviously he got released, but he

(28:15):
makes a non canon appearance in the non canon video
game Buffy the Vampire Slayer Chaos Bleeds, in which Buffy
visits a hell dimension and Sid is possessing a Ventrilocus
dummy in this hell dimension and apparently his soul in
this video game when it got released just got sent

(28:36):
to a hell dimension. So sucks for him, mega bummer.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, and he spends his whole life hunting demons and
doing good and fighting alongside slayers to go to a
hell dimension.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
I know, rude. Well, it's because a big old demon
was pissed at him so like intercepted and sent him
to the other.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah, that's just my Christian brain going, oh, he must
have done bad.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah he went in front of God's tribunal in Godwin.
Yeah no, I didn't think so. Alternate titles for this
episode in finish it it is puppet in chains.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
In Hungarian, that does kind of give it away. Think's
were the twist? Well maybe not, because like the demon
would be in chains, he's chained to being a puppet
and he wants to be even The Hungarian title is
demonic Puppet And then once again the Germans win with Buffy,

(29:33):
Lets the Puppets dance Germany, Germany. These names you are
good at naming episodes.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Oh my god, incredible title.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Those are your those are your slacks, your slayer facts.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
Why I have to tell you the plot of this
episode was lost on me last night, so I had
to watch it. I mean, I like to watch these
episodes twice, but I literally had to watch it this
morning and be like, Okay, what the fuck? And I,
of course now I understand, okay, okay. To write this
recap took a ton of brain power. Correct me if

(30:18):
I got anything wrong. I was like, am I I
fear it may be stupid? I just was like, really,
I was like, in my mind, I was like, the
puppet couldn't. I was like, the puppet is tricking them,
Like he's not actually a demon hunter. He must be
a demon and in my mind he was the bad

(30:40):
guy all along. I also, I'm telling you, I watched
this episode like a couple of months ago. I was like,
I fear I might be stupid. I know, girl, I know.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
He literally gives the detective monologue, the Murder Mystery Detective
monologu where he.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Says I thought he was lying last night.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
I was like, well, he's a liar, you say, I know,
an evil puppet. When I see what you that's what
I thought.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
And you know what, maybe that's in my inherent biases
against puppets.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Like yeah, yeah, it's because you were up at kid.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
I'm sorry, and I'm paying for it every day. I'm
paying for it every day.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Anyway, you're one of the people who got Muppet Vision
three D closed at Jesse's Hollywood studio.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
That sucks.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
I'm really sorry. Okay, but I do feel like I
do have a handle on the plot now, but please
let me got it. I just I think I was
thinking way too hard about it last night.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
You were like, but there's gonna be a twist on
the twist, the twist on the twist. The twist is
that he's actually good. But then the other twist is
that no, he was actually.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yeah, because also in my mind I remember him stabbing.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
The demon that was trying to kill Giles.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, but he needed to get the heart. So I
was like, no, that he stole like Hannah's heart, but
he yeah, because that was the other kid who was stealing.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
The only way the demon will die is if you
stab its heart. If you harmon any other way, we'll regenerate.
You have to stop its heart for it to die.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yeah, and that's that's true for Buffy as well. Okay,
so let me tell you about puppet Master, No puppet,
Jesus puppet. What is this episode called?

Speaker 1 (32:24):
Show? Puppet show?

Speaker 2 (32:26):
Okay? Anyway. Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer its talent
show WEEKND. Giles is in charge and the Scoobies are
ready to mock from the audience until Snyder Snyder Snyder
Snyder principal Snyder newly hired principle. It's cracking down on
the bad kids, and his punishment for skipping class and

(32:47):
general rebel behavior is making the Scoobies participate in the
talent show alongside a dancer, some band kids, Cordelia, a
terrible magician, and a boy named Morgan in his raunchy
puppet sid Hey Jrgan is pretty good at being a ventriloquist.
Emily is found in the locker room with her heart
carved out of her chest with a whole knife. I

(33:08):
hate this school. Buffy and the Scoobies investigate as they
learn that Morgan has been acting really weird recently and
seems to have a really intense relationship with his puppet.
Sid ends up pouncing on Buffy while she's sleeping. Little creep,
so Xander goes and buys Buffy some time to get
some alone time with Morgan and steals Si. Steals Sid

(33:29):
away from him. Turns out Sid is actually alive and
not the demon that they suspect him to be, and
actually a demon hunter and they're all looking for the
same guy, Morgan Wheelern has brain cancer, and then not
another word is spoken about him the rest of the episode.
Turns out the Magician Kid is the demon who wants
to be a human and tries to kill Giles with

(33:50):
literally a guillotine. Sid and Buffy tag team to take
the Magician out, and then the curse put on Sid
is finally broken and he can finally pass on. The
Scoobies do really bad in their oedic scene and the
day is saved.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Oh yeah, another word is not spoken about Morgan because
he got murdered.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
You're murdered murdered.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Okay, you did a good job, genuinely, you did a
good job. You're just missing a crucial piece of information.
So the demon which ends awake.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
What the heck.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Do you not remember when Buffy finds the dead body
and they're like, oh my gosh, the demon must have
gone home. And then she finds the brain up in
like the brain, yes, yes, and that's that's that's Morgan's brain.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
That's Morgan's brain. So the demon he's been sick and
so the demon can't have his brain. Okay, yes, I remember.
I don't think I put together that that brain was
Morgan's brain.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
And I'm so I'm not even a.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Weak at all. So I've just really caught up in
the I was nervous there was going to be anotherert
twist that I wasn't even watching.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
What was it?

Speaker 2 (35:08):
What it was showing me? Oh my god?

Speaker 1 (35:11):
So the demon needs this is this is for an
audience in case they haven't watched the episode, so for me.
So they're looking for a demon who needs to harvest
organs so that they can become they can have a
human body. And this demon is disguising themselves in some way,
and they think the demon is Morgan or is in

(35:34):
Morgan's puppet. And then Buffy comes across Morgan and his brain.
He's dead and his brain has been harvested, and they're like,
oh my gosh, the demon has the brain. The demon
is free. Now we'll never know who it is because
they're just going to be a normal person and they're
going to run away. But then they find out Buffy
like finds Morgan's brain discarded, and they find out that

(35:58):
Morgan had brain cancer, and so the demon ok realize
that and is looking for a healthy brain and is
sticking around. And they have assuming that the demon has
left the premises premises, they've abandoned the talent show and
left Giles alone. And then since the Demon didn't abandon
the premisses, it's actually marked the Magician and he captures
Giles and tries to.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Kill Okay, okay, so you're saying all this, and I
do remember watching it, so yes, perfect, yes, yeah. I
don't know why this episode confused me so much. I
fear it will be stupid. This episode has written to
be a who Done It? Which I think is really fun,
But a lot of Buffy episodes are pretty straightforward. It's

(36:42):
here's the monster, and the monster is evil, and we're
going to defeat the monster. I the first time watching
this episode, because I haven't seen this episode in over
ten years. The first time watching this episode, I forgot
about the twist entirely, so I was taking the whole
thing at face value and was like, Okay, the puppets evil.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Okay, the puppets evil. Okay, the pupets, and then Gag
upon gags, the puppet's not evil. He's the spirit of
a demon slayer that's been trapped in the puppet and
he and Buffy want the same thing. I was shocked,
and then I enjoyed From that reveal onwards, I enjoyed
the episode much more. Okay, but yeah, the episode is
written to be a like murder mystery, who done it?

(37:18):
And we have we have the suspects. The puppet is
obviously the main red herring. Principal Snyder is a very
large red herring, where it's like, once we find out
that the puppet is actually good, then it's like, oh
my gosh, obviously it's Principal Snyder who is evil. And
then even like when they realize that the demon must

(37:44):
still be around or that like the demon wasn't in
the show circle, it like cuts immediately to Principal Snyder
and then they show us Mark in the episode just
enough that like, we know who Mark is, but he
is just the silly kid who bad at magic tricks.
And then it's like, oh my gosh, twist ending Mark
was the demon the whole time. Yeah, I thought it

(38:05):
was fun and cool.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
No, I honestly you explaining it, it is fun and cool.
I think I was just following the wrong string so
hard that I was like, they can't pull a fast
one on me. When it's like, no, they.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
The demon is in the puppet. See, I don't care
what you tell me. The demon's in that puppet. I
know he's.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Yes, I was like, he's a creeper. Oh my god,
that's actually I'm kind of embarrassed. But anyway, anyway, anyway, okay,
did you have so you liked the episode, especially after
the reveal.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
I liked the episode a lot more on second watch
because I do. I love watching a twist ending the
second time to see all the seeds that are planted,
and I especially like in a mystery. This is like
I like to watch the screen movies over and over
because I like to see the people, all of them,

(39:07):
all the ways that they're trying to make the audience
think it's different. People like, obviously it's fun to see
the hints as to who the killer actually is, but
I find it more fun to see the hints that
they're intentionally putting in to throw us off the track.
I love so Once I knew that it was Mark,
I thought it was very fun to like watch all

(39:29):
the Snyder hints and then to watch the Sid hints,
and yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah, I did enjoy that, especially watching it the second time,
because I was like, Okay, what was it that made
me think it was Sid? The puppet so hard? And
I was like, especially like him wanting to be flesh.
I was like this demon in my mind, I was like,
has flesh. So I'm like, it has to be the
puppet because that is made of wood. So I did

(39:56):
enjoy seeing the moments where I was like, Okay, this
is how, this is how I got to where I was.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yeah. Well, I also like because one of the reasons
you think Sid is evil is because Sid wants to
kill Buffy. Like Sid is in her bed with a knife.
Sid is telling Morgan just one more and I'll be free.
We have to go after her, and Morgan, you've seen
how strong she is. It has to be her, and

(40:22):
Morgan's like, I want to do it, I won't do it,
And so I enjoy that a lot more on second watch,
because it's hard to put those pieces together the first
time with the twist. And then on second watch, we
are told that the demon that we are all hunting,
that Sid and Buffy A is hunting, will look human
most likely, but will be extremely strong. And then we

(40:42):
find out that Sid is under a curse where he
is trapped in this puppet until he can kill all
seven of these demons, and he's killed six of them,
so he is telling so like we think that he's saying,
if I can harvest like she's so strong, we have
to get her organ and then once I have her organ,
I will be human. But it's him saying she's so strong,

(41:02):
she must be the demon. And then once I killed
that demon, I then I'll be free from this curse.
Yeah mm hmm. And I find that stuff. I find
that stuff fun to see the double meaning.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
And especially watching it the second time, I was like, Okay,
I'm getting this. I did not get that the brain
was Morgan's brain. That's on me.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
That's much love that is on you. They do fully
say that it is Morgan. It is.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
I'm actually genuinely embarrassed.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
The brain cancer at all is crazy to me that
they're just like, I don't know, brain cancer is incredibly serious. Yeah,
oh my god. And it's not even like it's in remission,
like he actively is having massive headaches because of it,
and they're just kind of like, oh, he has brain cancer. Bummer. Anyways,

(42:04):
the demon won't want his brain. It's just like I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Yeah. It's also like everyone talks about Morgan in such
a nice way. They're like, Morgan is the smartest guy
in school. He's really awesome, and then like everyone is like,
but he's not a really weird and erratic and then
he dies and they're like whatever.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
I mean in my mind when everyone dies.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
You know, and that's true. But in my mind, I
like couldn't even put together that he died because I
was like, that's I don't know, and that's on me.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
It's just crazy to me that he would have brain
cancer and no one would know about it. Yeah, I'm like, he's.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Going to school, missed a lot of school.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
Well, like, wouldn't he Also, like I don't know, maybe
he decided to not do treatment for it. It's it's
just it is an extremely and extremely what is the
word dire sickness to give him for this plot point
that I'm like, it then raises all these questions like

(43:04):
how does no one know that he has brain cancer?

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Even his teachers? And like the teacher was such a
bitch to him. She's like, it seems like you're not
all there. I was like, okay, teacher, you're actually such
a bitch.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah he yeah, no seriously, And like everyone's like, I
don't know. He's like weird and erratic, and he always
rubs his head, Like how is this not just common
knowledge that he's going through this thing? Yeah? I guess
maybe he wants it to be top secret. But then also,
like much love, maybe he loves school. Yeah, why is
he still going to school?

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Why is he still going to school?

Speaker 1 (43:37):
It was just crazy to me. It was crazy to me. Anyways.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
I was like, Sid is so mean to Morgan, he
can't be good.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Yeah. It just turns out that Sid is a an
old nineteen thirties curmudgeon who's like really mean and really
horny and objectifies teenage girls, but in a chart way.
Because it's the thirties.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
M I genuinely fir. I can't help it. I'm just
a ditzy blonde. Okay, you guys, chill.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
I'm watching the show for vibes, and this episode, this episode.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Vibes, it's really fun. I also think the whole premise
is just really exciting. Yeah, like these kids who are
so pumped to make fun of everyone putting themselves out
there to do this talent show, having to do it
and doing such a piss, poor fucking job. I think
it's so damn funny. I love it. I love that

(44:45):
Giles somehow gets roped into it and he like has
no he like he has no handle on the situation
at all. Like he does a show circle and that
is like, I okay, love like doesn't even have fun.
He's like, okay, circle up. He's like, okay, it's the
opposite of Will Schuster. It's awesome. I also love like

(45:07):
you said, he doesn't understand what a show circle is
supposed to be. So they're like, we need to find
out who's missing, so do a show circle and he's like, okay,
we're doing a show circle. They all get in a
circle and then he's like okay, thank you you're free,
like no, like tell him do a good job, like.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
Like no, pump up, no, nothing, just like we all
circle up and that was a show. Circle Ever dismissed
something I love about Buffy the Vampire Slayer, specifically the
first season. But I feel like this is true through
all the high school years is high concept shows get
so wrapped up in their high concept that then you're like,
are they attending school? Like much love, I do love

(45:47):
Stranger Things, but stranger And maybe this isn't really a
knock on Stranger Things, but like Stranger Things gets to
a point where their everyday lives are not even considered,
like you're not seeing anything about them at school. Mostly
like once it gets pretty deep into the season, it's
just like the supernatural elements are so important that we're

(46:07):
losing the every day, which once again is not a
knock on Stranger Things. Yeah, but I think what's fun
about Buffy is the every day and the school is
always central. Yes, like, yes, there is a demon in
the school who is killing off students and harvesting their organs,
but also our principal just told us that we have
to do the talent show or will be suspended. And

(46:29):
that's going to be so embarrassing, Like both those things
been treated with equal importance. Is so campy and fun.
I love it, and.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
It's also like it felt it felt true to me
watching it growing up as well, because I mean I
was watching shows where like they were in high school
and it was barely considered. But like, I still have
to go to fucking class at six am, Like I
still have to do everything and also hold everything else
that I have going on as well. So I always

(46:59):
think it's so fun where like a constant of this
show is Buffy has to go to history class, doesn't
matter if she has she has to stay up all night,
she has to go to history class because also so
do we. We have to go to history class. And I
love it.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
I love how they also illustrate this in kind of
the the one liners that Joyce says about whatever she
has going on in her life that Joyce obviously has
an extremely stressful life, but it is an extremely ordinary, ordinary,
stressful life. Yeah, where it's.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
Buffy, Joyce, You're just like me for real.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Buffy just woke Joyce up screaming because there was a
puppet in Buffy. Buffy's bed trying to murder her, and
she woke Joyce up from a dream about bills, and
then like in the episode Angel, I don't remember what
what the conversation is, but Buffy's in this situation where

(47:55):
you know, the guy she's dating is a vampire and
there's this lesion of vampires trying to kill her, and
Joyce is like, sorry, honey, I've been on the phone
all day battling with the I r s like just
everyday issues. I think it's so funny. I really love it. Yeah,
and then sorry, continue, No.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
I just think that's just that's so true to life,
Like if we were in like a superhero movie, I
still have to go to work. I still have to
pay my bills. Like that, there's so much else happening.
I don't like. It just is so funny to me
when like that kind of stuff isn't considered where it's like, Okay,
they're just like gonna not go to school for a week.
I guess, like, what are you fucking talking about. Yeah,

(48:40):
of course she's gonna still have to pay taxes. It
doesn't matter that her daughter like just brought a vampire
in the house.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
Hello. I also love that it further illustrates why Buffy
feels like she can't confide in Joyce about anything. That
It's like, how could her mom ever understand what she
was going through when her Mom's like, I had a
really stressful day, the irs is really on my ass,
and Buffy's like, my boyfriend just tried to kill me,

(49:09):
kill me. Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
She was talking about Cordelia.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
We can talk about Cordelia Chase hell yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Oh my god, ah, I love you Cordelia. Her singing
Whitney Houston's song and absolutely eating this shit up. I
just love her, and then her being so invested in
this talent show that like Giles in order to get
her to go away, has to like tell her hair

(49:42):
is fucked up. Oh my god, I'm just obsessed with her.
I'm just oh my god.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
It is also a beautiful another beautiful illustration my word
of the week of just like no one having any
concept of what's going on, and also just personal stakes
being so different for every person that there is like
a d plot in this episode of Cordelia going to

(50:11):
do the talent show and being so confident about it
and then getting really nervous and then being afraid that
it's gonna ruin her whole social reputation and should she
even be doing this talent show? And it is happening
in the background of a plot about like a demon
murdering students, and all of the Cordelia scenes are just
this like standalone plot of her being like, oh my gosh,

(50:33):
what if I forget the words? What if I sound bad?
Is everyone gonna laugh at me? It's so silly. And
I also shot at a.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
Girl just got fucking murdered.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
Seriously, a girl yesterday.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Eighty six, real quiet like and like she's like, oh
my god, what is this gonna do for the talent show?

Speaker 1 (50:51):
Also shout out to Christmal Carpenter because she does a
really great job at singing poorly. And I mean that
sincerely because one of my pet peeves is when someone
has to be a bad singer and a TV show
and they sing in a way that no one would
ever think was good. Ever, they'll be like, and I'm like, no.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
I think it takes that kind of a trained singer
like bad, like just sound like you're trying.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
It takes I so agree it.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
To have a kind of a handle on what's going on.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
Exactly to be believably bad is a talent, and she
is believably bad in this episode. Shout out Christmy Carpenter because.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
It totally looks like she is like like giving it her.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
All loved this episode and it's a great Monster the
Week episode. It is.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
It's fun.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Most of the things that are coming to mind are
just like I think, it's a very funny episode. I
have like a million quotes.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Like a quote, Oh, tell me all the quotes. I
love it.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
I think this episode. Yeah, I think this episode. Of
of course I didn't know her too well. There's that
whole dancer band rivalry, you know. I heard about that.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
Oh, I heard about that.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
I think.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
This episode is really sitting in the comedic environment of
this show, and the characters all feel very realized in
this episode. The way they bounce off each other. There's
just this one exchange is such an incredible encapsulation of
who these three characters are, which is Princeill. Snyder has

(52:30):
told them that they have to do the Talent Show
and Willow is having them rehearse the scenes from Olipus
Rex for the Talent Show, and Xander has the great
line where he's like, I can't do this. I have
my pride. I don't have a lot of my pride,
but I have enough, so I can't do this, And
then Willow says a dramatic scene is perfect because it's

(52:50):
the one thing you can do for a talent show
that doesn't require any talent, and Xander says, well, we
do have talents, shouldn't we do something that requires talent?
And Buffy says, what am I gonna do? Slave vampires
on stage? And a Willow so earnestly goes in like
a funny way, in like a funny way. I just yeah,

(53:10):
Buffy's like quippy sarcasticness Chandler. I literally said Chandler because
it's Chandler bang Xanator's Chandler bingism, and then Willow Willow's
like oblivious earnestness are in full display in that exchange.
I think it's a very very funny episode, and I
normally I hate for this. Xander's so fucking funny in

(53:32):
this episode. I'm sorry everyone, he's very funny in this episode.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Sorry him saying red rum and then slamming the puppet
on the table. I was like, it was I was gooped.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
When they find out that Emily was killed with a knife,
so it was likely a human that killed her. And
then he goes, have I ever mentioned I hate this school?

Speaker 2 (53:56):
Really? They are all They're like sitting right in their
bag here.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
Oh right.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
I also think like everyone is just really funny in
this episode, and I love to see like the kids
of Sunnydale and like, you know what they're like. I
love the interrogation scene, like you know, where they go around,
they talk to the magician, they talk to the band girl,
but they talk, you know, they're just like all going

(54:21):
They talk to Cordelia and like a doing this as
very funny Xander scene where like Cordelia is walking across
and Xander's like, oh my.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
God, and she is She's literally could have been me.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
I could have died and He's like we could only
Oh really. It's really funny, but also it made me think,
like a girl has literally just had her heart carved
out in the middle of the school and the cops
come in, they take the evidence, and they leave, and
then they it leaves the Scoobies to do all the investigating.

(54:54):
I came up with a new acronym last night. This
is why I didn't get any of the information because
I was too I was too worried about like making
a new acronym to tell you that all sunny Dale
cops are dumbasses.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Okayta escata, I love it. Wait scata. That's so good
a scata And that's.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
Why I couldn't get any red herrings are really getting
into my head because I'm I was trying to make
a new acronym to make fun.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Of like and hear me all it was worth it
because it's a great acronym.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Dumbasses, dumb ass. These children are investigating, They're in the trenches,
like trying to help these kids. They are trying to
keep everyone safe. All sunny Dale cops are dumbasses. Where
the fuck are they?

Speaker 1 (55:49):
I also like that this episode walks a fine line
of ignoring all the traumatic stuff that happens and also
acknowledging it. Where Joyce here's Buffy screen and goes into
her room and she's like, Darling, is something bothering you?
A girl got murdered at her school, oh yesterday, like
got her heart carved out.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
I'm so surprised that the talent show would continue. I mean,
of course, these people live on a hell mouth this
kind of shit happens all the time. But I'm like,
this happened during rehearsal for the Talent Show, you guys.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
And she was in the Talent Show. And then Morgan
gets killed. He's also in the Talent Show.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
The Talent Show.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
And then when professor professor, when Principal Snyder is first
introduced and he says, I he was gonna shape up
the school, and he says, a lot of you know,
a lot of stuff keeps happening at the school. Suicide,
missing persons, spontaneous cheerleader combustion, and that genuinely is what
I want. I think it's so fun instead of like
no one has any idea what's going on. I love

(56:52):
the attitude of people know what's going on, but it's
so normal that no one really cares that. Like they
talk about people getting murdered like we would talk about like, oh,
a lot of kids are playing hooky, Like the school's
having a real murder problem, so we had a.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
Crack down, equalized out.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Yes, I think that's so funny. He has another line.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Kids are skipping school and he's like threatening them, but
like girls are having their hearts carved out and he's like.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
Mmmm, he has another line when he's talking to Buffy
at the locker. I'm trying to find it. It is
maybe my favorite joke in the entire episode.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
Oh hell yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
There are things I will not tolerate, students loitering after school,
horrible murders with hearts being removed, and also smoking. That
is a perfect joke. It's perfect. It's so good.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
It's genuinely like everything here the world is topsy turvy
in a way. It's I'm just so obsessed with it.
I really love it. Oh my god, Armin Shimmerman, you're
a really good actor. We love you very much.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
Which I said this last week, which like, is this
a spoiler? I did say this last week. I said
this when Fluty got killed three weeks ago. Is this
a spoiler?

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Yeah, no, we're obsessed with them.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
It was supposed to be that every principle would get
killed after a few episodes and it would be the
running gag. And then they liked Principal Snyder so much
that they were like, actually, he's principal, and watching this episode,
I can see why. And I love Fluty and especially
rewatching season one, I love Fluty, but Snyder is such

(58:29):
a good antagonist for the Scoobies.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
He also has a sense of humor that both fits
the world but then also is so dry that it
adds an exciting new dynamic to the world. And whereas
Fluty was like his number one priority is to be
seen as a good person, his number one priority is
to have his hands clean in every single situation, regardless

(58:58):
of like what actually is the best option for the
student's well being. He's like, I just need to get canceled. Yeah,
he's exactly, He's just trying not to get canceled. Princell
Snyder is the opposite end, where his number one priority
is that everything be orderly and he doesn't care how
big of an asshole he will come.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Off woke culture.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Exactly, he's rejecting woke culture. If Flutie wasn't such a
bleeding heart liberal, he wouldn't have gotten eaten. No, I'm
cracking down on everything. It's very fun dynamic. It is
really fun.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
And like also like to see him next to Giles,
and like Giles, while maybe like being a librarian at
a school is not his like his favorite gig, he
like cares so deeply for the students of Sunnydale and
especially the Scoobies, and like has such a father figure
that's my king, Like, I love him so much. Happy

(59:55):
Father's stage, Giles, I love you, and like to see
him next to Principal Stider being like a fucking hate kids.
I hate him so much.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
I think that dynamic was also really funny to me
in this episode, like he just has like zero empathy
for any of these kids and like kids kipping skipping school.
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Also the fact that Armine Shimmerman is like the height
of Sarah Michelle Geller. Oh my god, no, him being
such a tyrant and also being so small is very
visually appealing. This episode also at its heart has an

(01:00:38):
element that is so important in this show, which is
it's stupid. It's really dumb.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Oh it's really dumb. Oh it's super dumb.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
The ending is literally a puppet, like one of the
crew members on their knees operating a puppet so it
can hold a knife a monster, and then after the
puppet dies, it plays us like swelling dramatic music and
Buffy like lovingly is carrying the dead body of this

(01:01:11):
ventriloquis dummy. I was obsessed. That is camp as hell.
It's so incredibly stupid.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Also, like the Curtains opening, Buffy carrying this puppet like
Audrey and little Shaw, Yeah, and she is Seymour and
then like you know, Willow is like holding an axe
and Xander's doing whatever and.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
There's a beheaded monster on the guillotine.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Literally guillotined, and just like, oh my god, and then
Sander being like I don't get it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
Oh my god, so dumb. I also love they're like
everyone like practicing their talents for like a week straight,
all with each other in the room. Like that is stupid.
These talents are bad and awesome. I've really enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
I like, I like, actively don't ever want to bring
up Joss on this podcast unless we absolutely have to,
but I do like this is a quote I keep
thinking of, and he's the one who said the quote,
which is I don't remember the exact wording, but I

(01:02:24):
say it in the first the first ever Slacks and
the pilot, something about how he had a desire to
like pay homage to be horror movies and that there
is like a fun and how bad they are. But
then also there is like a beauty and an artistry

(01:02:44):
and how bad they are. And that is one of
my favorite things about this show is it is so
not prestige. It is it does not think too highly
of itself. It is thrilled to revel in the stupidity
and the stupidity of this puppet might be evil and
what are like all the fun things we could do

(01:03:06):
with an evil ventriloquist puppet, and also to revel in
the fun of what are all of the comedic scenarios
we could get out of a school talent show. It
is so happy to explore these very campy and ridiculous premises,
premises premises I don't know. And it's a lot of fun.
I really like it. It's fun. There's a demon in the
computer and the vents holding a night yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
And like the teacher is a is a bug? I think,
especially like this first what episode around nine?

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
Uh yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Nine, like these first I don't know, like just to
talk about what we've watched so far, it's so vast,
and to like tell you we're going to tell you
a story about like Buffy killing vampires like she is
she's doing that so consistently, but also to show you
that like, that's not all you're in for. In fact,
we're gonna have some fucking fun. Is I think really

(01:04:02):
genuinely very very very exciting, and this monster of the
week fun. It's just like I think it's just ribboning
into like any kind of monster you can make. In
these first nine episodes, I just think they could have
easily just done vampires the whole time, and I think

(01:04:22):
that would have been fun. But it's also like, how
many times can I say fun? I'm so sorry? That
would have been fine, But this is so fun. This
is so exciting. Like every week, I'm like so surprised
at what they choose to do. I am just I
really love it and it's just silly and I love
to have fun.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
I also something we have in common. I also love
to have fun. To have fun, Wow, I hate to
do this.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
That's something interesting about us?

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
Is something unique about us? Fun? You love to have fun?
Do you have other big thoughts about the Puppet Show? No,
I like feel bad.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
I don't feel bad. Well, I just like, honestly, I
never feel bad because if you look at any other
podcast so literally on Earth, they're all like forty five
minutes long. You and I have just set up a
weird precedent for ourselves that we record for like two
hours at a time, and god knows when these get
more plot heavy, we're going to get there. But like,
if we just say that we like it, I'm not

(01:05:23):
too worried.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
And I was. I was going to say, there's nothing worse.
Once again, the worst thing that a TV show can
be is boring. There's nothing worse than like hearing podcasters
regurgitate their same thoughts over and over again, when it's like,
we know, like it's okay, got it. So we liked
the episode. It was very funny. The show is can't
be silly? You want to share? It was cool? Who

(01:05:46):
done it? Oh? I have a moment that I think
is funny, which is okay. When they piece together that
the demon is likely going after Giles and they're like,
oh my gosh, and they run out of the library
and they're screaming for their live screaming Jiles's name, sprinting
in the hallway. There's just an extra playing a janitor

(01:06:06):
in the background who's mopping the floor, who just like
looks up at them running screaming bloody murder for the
librarian and then continues cleaning.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
I thought that was very silly.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
Shout out Buffy's outfits in this episode. Also, Willow's outfits
are really cute too. But Buffy is wearing one of
my favorite Buffy outfits of all fucking time, this mini
dress in the leopard print with the leather coat over
top and her long boots. Plus she's wearing a banana
clip hair piece. Oo it is oh, oh my god,
bungles really really really lovely like Sasha Colby ponytail awesome,

(01:06:42):
Like it is so cute, it is so obviously a
hair piece, and I'm like, okay, how do I get one?
Stat I love it? And then I also I'm wearing
a shirt that kind of looks like her her all
black outfit because I loved that outfit so much. She's
wearing like a little like Halter tank top moment and
like her long black pants and like kicking ass. Oh
my god, very amazing Buffy office in this episode.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
Also, apparently, I don't know if you noticed this, Apparently
her hair is blonder in this episode than it's been
in previous episodes.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
Oh sure, sure, sure, yeah definitely.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
And that's because she had started filming. I know what
you did last summer. Great film, great film until the ending.
I don't love the ending of that movie, but great
film until the ending. That's that's our episode. Sorry everyone,
that's that's puppet Master starring Blaine Warbler.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
The worst part.

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
What is your worst part of the episode?

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Okay, my worst part. My worst part is that I
suffer from literalism and sometimes I take things too literally
that I can't enjoy who done it? And that sucks
for me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
What were you taking literally.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
That the puppet was evil? I'm just taking things at
its value. I'm not seeing the the But that's my fault.
That's not a That's not the worst part of this
my worst part. I genuinely think this episode is really good.
There's not much that I would like do to improve it,

(01:08:24):
and I mean, I feel like it always comes down
to me saying something like this. But it's also something
that I kind of like about the show, where I mean,
Morgan has literal brain cancer and passes away and no
one knows that he has brain cancer or like cares
and that doesn't really that I couldn't even make sense

(01:08:46):
of that in my mind, that I like, didn't even
fucking gauge. I couldn't even hear the words they were
saying that. It just didn't make sense to me anyway anyway,
So maybe that. But also I like that this show
kind of doesn't take things too seriously. Do you know

(01:09:07):
what I mean? Does that make any sense?

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
Yeah, I'm I don't want them to take these deaths seriously.
I don't want a moment of silence for Morgan's death
because then we have to have a moment of silence.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
For every death for everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
Yeah. Then I don't even know that he has brain cancer.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
I know that his teachers. I understand maybe keeping that
from your and I'm I'm intensely fortunate I have not had,
you know, been sick like this. But I feel like
if I would tell you of a kid, I'd be like, okay,
you can. You are allowed to not tell whoever you
want to not tell. But if your teachers are gonna

(01:09:47):
look you in your fucking face and tell you that
you're not all there, quote unquote, like we should let
them know that you are. You're not doing well. Yeah,
that is my opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
Maybe I'm taking that too seriously. I don't know, what
do you think, what's your worst part?

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
I mean, I think one. I don't know. Do I
have anything to add to that? Probably not. It's hard
to have worst parts for like, it's just like a
clean Monster of the Week episode. It was fun, it
was cool. It does lift right out. You could easily
skip this episode not really miss anything. But also that's

(01:10:31):
not a complaint. I thought it was fun that it
was a one off little murder mystery, so I wouldn't
say that my worst part is that it lifts right out.
I think it's fine that it lifts right out. So
I guess my worst part is I was hoping that
if I talked long enough, one would come to me,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
I mean, this episode is great. This episode is really fun,
and it is inconsequential to everything else that's going on,
So like, what's there to complain about having fun?

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
Yeah, because this is another like I just don't want
to like be virtue signally, like the the puppets hitting
on teenage girls and they're teenagers and he's clearly an
adult man, and like yes, obviously, like that's fucked up. Also,
like it's an incredibly heightened, ridiculous show and like he's

(01:11:25):
possessing a ventriloquis dummy, So I don't. I never want
to get to the point where it sounds like we're
trying to like be virtual signally really good people and
it's like, you, guys, it's like a fantasy, ridiculous show.
Oh yeah, but like truly, I don't really have a
worst part for this episode. I thought it was fun
and enjoyable, So yeah, I don't know, Hey, hey, what's.

Speaker 3 (01:11:54):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
My best part, honestly, maybe a worst part of mine
can be that the WB took out the Oedipus scene
at the end, because the hell is so fun. I
love that part so much.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
And I love that all three of them have very
different takes on it. Where's Zander, my god, Xander is
trying to be good but is clearly awful, but you
can tell that he wants to be good. Willow is
fully dissociating.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
Eating right now, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
And then Buffy is the girl who's so pissed that
she has to do this and she's gonna let you
know through her performance that she's pissed off and doesn't
want to be here, and that both that both captures
the essence of those three characters so well. And then
also is just a very entertaining watch. It is.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
I also feel like this is the most like sixteen
year old they have ever been to me, Like they
are little tiny children in this Like it is so
funny and these kids are all so different from each other,
and I I love that part so much. I just
think it's so silly. Yeah, oh my god, where's my

(01:13:08):
best part? My best part, I think is the interrogation
moment when all of them are going to everyone in
the talent show and the girl letting us in on
the dancer the band kids drama, I stupid. I need
to hear more about that, Like they're not allowed to
talk to each other, but band girls also, like she

(01:13:32):
chatted with Emily, but they're not allowed to talk.

Speaker 1 (01:13:35):
To each other.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
Okay, what's the tea?

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
It really made me giggle. I really loved that this
episode is really funny. What's your best part?

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
My best part is the who Done An? Aspect? I
love Who Done It? I love red herrings, I love
a mystery. I love putting together clues. So I liked
that it was not straightforward and then I had a twist,
and honestly, I I think I would like this episode
a lot less less part of me if it was
straightforward the dummy is evil, Like, I think that twist

(01:14:09):
is what really elevates it to another level. And then
I had a footnote to that. I don't know if
I remember what it is. Oh, and then I just
appreciate them acknowledging the murders. I like that tone setting
of Snyder being like murders, suicide, spontaneous, two leader combustion.

(01:14:31):
That just setting it straight, like it's not that we
don't know these things are happening. It's that literally, it's
so common, no one cares. And I think that is
seems so fun and silly. Yeah, shout out the puppet Master,
the puppet Show, the puppet Show, the Buffy episode. You

(01:14:52):
were good, Ride, You were good Ride. And next week
we're gonna be talking about nightmares, So tune in.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
I'm excited. I like that episode.

Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
Hell yeah, I mine. Okay, Well you all.

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
Thank you all for being here. If you want to
follow us on social media, I hope you do. We're
at RGIE Presents Underscore Podcast. If you want, if you
have thoughts on this episode, if you like have experience
with puppets and a fun interesting win and you want
to share that with us, you can send us an
email at Recovering Gleek at gmail dot com if you want.

(01:15:23):
We have a Patreon where you can support us. You
can listen ad free, and you can also watch the
video of the recordings that we do. We chat and
show you our jigsup puppets, the one I'm showing you
right now, and we also do bonus episodes every month.
In June we did an episode on Bottoms.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
I believe it is Bottoms.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
Yeah, we haven't done it yet, so anything.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
It like literally the pull ended like two hours ago, so.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
Who knows, but I assume it was Bottoms. But yeah,
you can do that. We're uh patreon dot com slash
Recovering Gleek and we love you guys. At the end
of every episode, we like to give our patrons a
special shout out, and this week it's Ianstern.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
Hello, It's time for the patron shout out. Can you believe?
I texted Lena earlier today and I said, Okay, be
so honest. Are the patron shout outs fun or cringe?
And her response was, quote, it is definitely corny, but
I don't think that means it's bad unquote. So here's

(01:16:29):
another one for you. Buckle up, Baby, Shannon, Olivia, Jack,
Hannah cars Miter Press, Bubblesmoji, Brianna, JP, Tanya, Catherine, Rachel.

Speaker 3 (01:16:40):
Drul Christine, Chayleen Blake, Rachel, Alison, Megan, Audre, Megan, Alexandra, Kylie,
Dustin as I dated and Paula, Julia Kili, Jasmine While, Dennica, Calaine,
Dianald Hoast, kay Reagan, p Poo, Joelo, Madeline, al Lani,
Alise Blantanalys, Paige, Nandia, Nicole, Labne, christ and Shorty, Eileen Malory,

(01:17:02):
I Met Rebecca Hai, Orresa, Taylor, Carlin, Frankie, Margaret has Been, Emily,
Phoebe are Ya hey By Haley, Emily, Michelle, Jacqueline, el Si, Laslo,
Ray ms Step, I'm a big hat Charlie, Kelsey, Thomas, Jojo, Britney, Kenzie, Michael, Katie, Elizabeth, Freddy.

Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
Wow, Brian under the wire on that one, Oh wow,
I really killed that. I ate that up job, I
turned it and burned up. Shout out. Well, thank you
for being Thank you patrons for being patrons. You can
rate Spotify and Apple Podcast. See you next week.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
A comment on Spotify as well. I'm learning super fun.
I love to read the comments.

Speaker 1 (01:17:40):
True true Sam Sam same same, All right, love y'all, love.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
Y'all, see you LATERA bye bye. Oh here's a slakes
on your sleigh forehead? Do I still I still do
that you do? In fact, I've never stopped.

Speaker 1 (01:17:55):
There's been no there's been no SAT for like two
episodes and someone was like, hey, bring bye bye. Thank
you for listening. Follow us at Recovering Gleek Underscore podcast.
Email us at Recovering Gleek at giba dot com, Join
our Patreon Patreon dot com, slash Recovering Gleek, rate and

(01:18:16):
review us and tell your friends. Please.

Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
You know what animatronic I would kiss though the Kyler
ran animatronic girl.

Speaker 1 (01:18:23):
He's got a mask on. It's just roboskeleton down there.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
Remember we went when we went on that ride and
you were like, girl, wake up.

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
He's right there, and you like missed. You were so worried.
I was just so scared that the ride was gonna drop,
and it does, it does, but you were so concerned
that a drop was coming that you were missing what
was right in front of your eyes.

Speaker 2 (01:18:49):
Most girl, and I did this during this episode of
Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I'm looking out for Selena so
hard that I'm missing what's right the fuck in front
of me. What's wrong with my brain?