The Turner Diaries Part One (with Greg Hall)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
So dear call It conspiracy.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to the Some Dear Callic Conspiracy podcast, hosted by
Brentley and Neil Sanders. After nearly twenty years exploring the
world of conspiracy culture, we are taking our guests and
listeners on a guided tour of the rabbit hole, our
mission to discover where the truth lies.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Awesome, Yeah, man, keen to get into this and keen
to like, this is going to be brutal. This is
going to be what are two part of them?

Speaker 4 (00:51):
Probably because because I've written about twenty seven thousand words
about it. So let us begin. So the Turner diar
is this is going to be fucked up. I do apologize, like,
this is a horrific, horrific book. We're going to go
through sort of a bit of the background of it
before we actually start. But it's one of these things

(01:12):
where lots of people might have heard of it, and
very very few people have read it for good reason,
because well for several good reasons. One it's horrifically racist.
Two it like has inspired many and many acts of
terrorism and murder. And three it's appallingly written. It's really
really shit, and it's just it's just a bad book

(01:33):
in sort of every sense of the word. The fear
that I have as well is that we don't want
to we don't want to sort of glorify this. We
don't be kind of gaulish about it and stuff like that, because,
as I said, like, it is a really grim text
and stuff. So this is going to require a degree
of sensitivity. And luckily enough, I am a very sensitive guy,

(01:55):
particularly when it comes to political correctness and stuff like that.
So I think we're going to be okay, We'll be fine. Yeah,
be absolutely fine. So what is The Turner Diaries? Right?
The Turner Diaries was first published in nineteen seventy eight,
And I know what you're thinking, Oh, right in the
middle of punk. No, no, it's not. It's a novel

(02:18):
that's very popular among the far right extremists and Nazis.
It was written by a man called William Pearce, although
he used the pseudonym Andrew McDonald, And just so people
get a background to what the plot is, it portrays
the violent overthrow of the federal government and the systematic
killing of Jews and non whites in order to establish
an Airyan only world. So that's what we're talking about now.

(02:43):
This first came out. It was syndicated by this far
right group called National Alliance, and they had a magazine
called Attack, and from nineteen seventy five to nineteen seventy
eight this was put out as like a serial in
the in the magazine and then eventually was published by

(03:05):
National Alliance's publishing house, National Vanguard, which was in nineteen
seventy eight. So it's not a brilliant bestseller. It's sold
about well. In two thousand and one it was said
to have sold an estimated three hundred thousand copies, so
it's yeah, yeah, that's more than it should have sold.

(03:29):
But you know, it's this is the thing. It is
quite an obscure text. So this is why we're sort
of looking at it because, as I say, a lot
of people would have heard about it. A lot of
people probably want to know what's in it, but don't
want to read it, because yeah, why would you. In
nineteen ninety six, it was republished by now this is
really Grim Barricade Books. They put it out in nineteen

(03:53):
ninety six. Anyone can guess why they decided to issue
this book in nineteen ninety six.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
Was this off the back of the Oklahoma, my bombing.

Speaker 4 (04:02):
It was Yeah, that's the classy reason, isn't it Like? However,
they put a forward in the book that said that
they completely denounced this book, the book that they were
selling off the back find them, Yeah, off the back
of the terror attack that it inspired.

Speaker 5 (04:25):
It's like literally literally disaster capitalism.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
Oh very much. Yeah. So. Lyle Stewart was the owner
of Barricade Books. Was criticized by several organizations and individuals,
Among others, the Southern Poverty Law Center, Maurice d'es who's
the founder of the SBLC, and the Simon Weisenthal Center
de stated that they had found the book in almost
every single case of white supremacy neo Nazi klu klux

(04:52):
Klan type activity that resulted in violence that caused deaths
and injuries to many innocent people. Now, Larles of the
book completely defended his decision to republish the book by saying,
I felt it was important that the average Americans see
how sick these minds are and how dreadful and perverted
their thinking processes. And the book is widely available for

(05:15):
free online. It used to be sold in book show,
gun shows, Sorry, and bizarrely used to be advertised in
a Soldier of Fortune magazine. You know, I don't remember
that it was. That magazine was just it's for like
militia types. It's basically about guns and ammunition and survivalists

(05:38):
sort of shit. It was, yeah, that kind of stuff, Yeah,
basically like and you could get it through by ordering
it through those types of books, which gives you an
idea of the sort of demographic that it might be
aimed at.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
I mean I first kind of heard about this book.
I don't know if you guys remember the kind of
Louis through documentaries where he kind of went to and
it was off the back of kind of the Oklahoma
bombing and explored these kind of militia men and these
far right groups. And that's where I kind of first
heard about this kind of book in kind of the

(06:14):
popular kind of culture. It was through that and again
that link with the gun shows gun rights and the
NRA kind of far right stuff.

Speaker 4 (06:24):
Yeah, totally. I mean it was it used to say
on the back of the book that this book was
labeled the Bible of the racist right by the FBI.
Now here's the twist. It wasn't that was a marketing
stunt by William p.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
Of course, the fact.

Speaker 4 (06:43):
That he proudly labels his book that the FBI have
called this the Bible of the racist right shows you
where he's coming from. He's not afraid to be called
a racist by any now. The FBI actually described it
as a significant work and foundation document, closely embraced by
the leadership as well as rank and file members of

(07:04):
the right wing and white supremacist movement. And as I
said before, it's influenced quite a lot of people. Timothy
McVeigh was an avid reader, and you also used to
sell copies of it at gun shows. And there's remarkable
similarities between the bombing of the Alfred P. Murra Federal

(07:25):
Building in Oklahoma, and there's a scene in the Turner
Diaries which basically graphically describes the preparation of a bomb
which is used to destroy the national headquarters of the FBI. Also,
the Turner Diaries is seen as the inspiration for this
violent extremes group known as the Order. There's a film
that's recently come out. It's got Jude Law in it.

(07:46):
I think as yes, and that is about this particular group.
They committed a series of murders, robberies, counterfeiting, and also
they bombed a synagogue and the order is named after us. Well,
we'll come to that as we go through through the book.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
Basically, well, I always found interesting. I hope you don't
mind me kind of I might be leaping ahead here, Neil,
it's just in terms of and again I'm no kind
of expert in kind of fascism. But what was really
interesting about this book and how it came out in
America at that kind of time, how it became so popular,
was it kind of and I know Pierce himself he
kind of left the American Nazi Party and kind of

(08:26):
because he didn't want to have schwastikas and stuff like that.
He wanted to move away from that. And it's just
weird how often in fascism Hitler, all the kind of
big examples of fascism fascism is they kind of come
to power through the democratic system and it was about
building a political party, whereas this is very uniquely American

(08:50):
because it's so closely tied with the idea of gun rights.
And I know it certainly did influence even things like
David Copeland, which oh yeah, we might we might talk
about bit so American, and it's so it moved fascism
away from being about building a political party and taking
the state system to suddenly fascism being almost a revolutionary underground.

(09:15):
So it's always fascinated me. Like I've never read it.
I've avoided ever reading it. So I'm frightened for how
deep you're going to go into this. Nil but just
as a pivotal text and how it's influenced the far
right globally and the whole kind of lone wolf phenomena
is frightening.

Speaker 4 (09:35):
You know. Well it's it's estimated to have influenced the
perpetrators of over two hundred murders. Wow. Yeah, so interesting
And yeah, just to alleviates the wrong word to reinforce
your fears. Yeah, we're going to go pretty deep into this. Yeah,
Like we're going to go through the entire book chapter

(09:57):
by chapter. I'm going to explay the entire plot, and
we're going to be reading paragraphs that that give you
a flavor of what the book is like basically. So yeah,
we're going to be pretty familiar with it by the end.
I would say, So, this one's probably not for the
faint heritage, No, absolutely not now again, So William Pierce,

(10:19):
who wrote the book, he he's actually a teacher Oregon
State University for a time, and he was briefly a
member of the anti communist John Birch Society, but he
left them because he didn't think that they were quite
racist enough. Yeah, this is it. He's he has at

(10:41):
various times been affiliated with George Lincoln rock Rolls American
Nazi Party, but as you say, moved away from that
and Willis Carto's National Youth Alliance. Now Carto published the
American Free Press, and some very familiar people in the
conspiracy world were in the American Free Press, publishing articles

(11:02):
quite regularly. Ron Paul, Paul Craig Roberts, who used to
appear on Info War was quite a lot, Eustace Mullens,
who holocaust denier, and Jim Tucker, who was popularized the
concept of the builder Berg Group. He also started a Winnipier.
So Carto started the far right think tank Liberty Lobby,

(11:25):
which published Spotlight magazine, which that popularized the idea that
La Trail from Apricott Stones is anti cancer, which is
something that I've seen David Ike talk about, and I
wonder if he realizes that that came from a right
leaning Nazi affiliated think tank. They also were the first

(11:48):
people to publish the idea that he Howard Hunt, who
was the Watergate burglar, was the real assassin of JFK,
although he sued them for this and so he probably wasn't.
But Piers the other thing, as you were saying earlier,
he didn't want to join the American Nazi Party until
it was renamed the National Socialist White People's Party in

(12:11):
nineteen sixty seven. But it was also a trustee of
the Cosmotheist Church, which is a Christiane identity group which
shares membership with National Alliance, which is the Nazi group. Now,
this Cosmotheist Church, it holds the pseudo religious it is

(12:33):
pseudo religious identity church, and it holds that white people
are the chosen people of the Bible and that Jews
and people of color are the tainted children of Satan.
And interestingly, Mormons used to think exactly the same thing,
which you know is grim basically, so what Pierce has

(12:57):
also written another book, or the the Turner Diaries. It's
actually a prequel and it's called Hunter. Now. Hunter is
the story of a drive by killer who begins murdering
interracial couples and assassinating Jews in order to cleanse America.

(13:17):
And the book is dedicated to Joseph Paul Franklin, who
fire bombs several synagogues and is serving multiple life sentences
for murdering two black men with a sniper rifle. So
this is the sort of this is what we're going
to be dealing with. So this is the blurb on
the back of the book. What will you do when

(13:41):
they come to take your guns? Earl Turner and his
fellow patriots face this question and are forced underground when
the US government bans the private possession of firearms and
stages the massed gun raids to round up suspected gun owners.
The hated Equality police begin hunting them down. The patriots

(14:01):
fight back with a campaign of sabotage and assassination. An
all out race war occurs. As the struggle escalates, Turner
and his comrades suffer terribly, but their ingenuity and boldness
in devising and executing new methods of guerrilla warfare lead
to a victory of cataclysmic intensity and worldwide scope. The

(14:23):
FBI has labeled the Turner Diaries the bible of the
racist right. If the government had the power to ban books,
this one would be at the top of the list.
The Turner Diaries is the most controversial book in America
today and it's unlike any you've ever read. So, yeah,
so are we ready? Because we are? Are we sitting comfortably?

Speaker 3 (14:46):
I'm dumb struggle already, But mate, this is going.

Speaker 4 (14:52):
To be a journey him.

Speaker 5 (14:58):
I was like, Oh, that's an American name.

Speaker 4 (15:02):
There, it's a very American name. There's a lot of
things that are very American in this It's yeah, it's
quite a unique book. But as I say, you've got
to shine a light on these things. Like what we
hope to do is point out how fucking stupid this
book is. I'm going to do that by the tactic
of using the book itself. That's why I'm going to

(15:23):
be reading these passages and stuff like that, because it
needs to show you how discussing this book is, how
racist this book is, but also have very stupid this
book is. And so that's that's what we'll do. And again,
this has influenced a lot of people. This is a
book that a lot of people possibly have heard of,
but have never read, because why the fuck would you.
I've read it twice anyway, Yeah, anyway, this is the

(15:54):
forward of the book. There exists such an extensive body
of literally on the Great Revolution, including the memoirs of
virtually every one of its leading figures who survived into
the New Era, and yet another book dealing with the
events and circumstances of that time of cataclysmic upheaval and
rebirth may seem superfluous. The Turner Diaries, however, provides an

(16:16):
insight into the background of the Great Revolution which is
uniquely valuable for two reasons. One, it is a fairly
detailed and continuous record of a portion of the struggle
during the years immediately before the culmination of the Revolution,
written as it happened on a day to day basis. Thus,
it is free of the distortion which often afflicts hindsight.
Although the diaries of other participants in the Mighty Conflict

(16:39):
are existent, none which has yet been published provides a
complete and detailed a record. Two, it is written from
the viewpoint of a rank and file member of the organization,
and although it consequently suffers from myopia occasionally, it is
a totally frank document. Unlike the accounts recorded by some
of the leaders of the revolution. His author did not
have one eye on his place in history, As he wrote,

(17:01):
as we read the pages which follow, we get a
better understanding than from any other source, probably of the
true thoughts and feelings of the men and women who
struggle and sacrifice, saved our race in its time of
greatest peril and brought about the new era. That's nothing
to do with the hats, by the way, I don't
want to smear them.

Speaker 5 (17:19):
Like you know.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
In fact, I'm pretty sure that all involved with the
Turner Diaries would be pretty appalled at the sort of
people that wear those hats. But anyway, So.

Speaker 3 (17:32):
But straight away, this is like a sci fi right,
So this is kind of like it's.

Speaker 4 (17:36):
This topic like so basically it's set in the mysterious
future from nineteen ninety one. So this is it, and
it explains that that Turner. So what it is is
the Diaries of Earl Turner. Earl Turner's alive in the
nineties and this is a time of great upheaval which

(17:58):
will get we explain, and this is the sort of
the point of the book. We are way in the
future and this is going to retell how the Great
Revolution happened, right, And it explains that Turner is thirty
five in nineteen ninety one, right, and he's trained as
an electrical engineer.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Right.

Speaker 4 (18:19):
So here's a guy who was sixteen in nineteen seventy seven.
But I'm guessing that he didn't really like punk, and
he probably thought that heavy metal was a bit raucous.
I think when hair metal came around, he was probably
a ghast. I think he probably thought goth was silly,
is on the wrong continent for Madchester. He missed rave, right,

(18:41):
and he's just a pinch too old to embrace grunge,
So no wonder he's angry. Like now this what turns.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
A lot, explains a lot. Now you've said that whole
for a whole new context.

Speaker 4 (18:57):
Well, this is the thing. And what Turner's music will
taste is one of the topics that the book stubbornly
refuses to address. But I think we can presume it
isn't reggae. He strikes me probably as a prog fan,
to be quite honest, Like, I assume he likes the
song Whiter Shade of Pale by Procolharum, but probably not

(19:18):
for normal reasons. So it continues. The diaries span barely
two years in Earl Turner's life, yet they give us
an intimate acquaintance with one of those whose names is
inscribed in the Record of Martyrs. For that reason alone,
his words should have a special significance for all of us, who,
in our school days were given the task of memorizing

(19:39):
the name of all the martyrs in that sacred record
handed down to us by our ancestors. So, as you
can see, it's fucking ridiculously overblown. It's very very grandiose,
and again it's it's bad sci fi. So it begins

(19:59):
chapter one, September sixteenth, nineteen ninety one. Today it finally began.
After all these years of talking and nothing but talking,
we have finally taken our first action. We are at
war with the system and it is no longer a
war of words. And just to prove my previous point,
September nineteen ninety one is when Nevermind came out, and

(20:21):
also also usually Illusion one and two. So I think
that I think that actually proves my point.

Speaker 5 (20:28):
Basically, wait wait wait, wait wait, use your illusion one
and two came out? Yeah, civil war?

Speaker 4 (20:36):
Oh there you go, Wow, there absolutely that's what's that's
what's peaked his anger very very clearly. So Taylor's hiding
with members of this group, the organization. Now the organization
is a terror terrorist organization that's opposed to the government,
and the government is known as the system. Because this

(20:59):
writer does not do subtlety. Now George, who is another
member of the group, has warned them all that arrests
have begun, presumably of other members of the organization. Now
that we have begun, we must continue with the plan,
the plan that we have been developing so carefully ever

(21:22):
since the gun raids two years ago. What a blow
that was to us, and how it shamed us, all
that brave talk by patriots the government will never take
my guns away, and then nothing but meet submission when
it happened. So again, like this is in the opening chapter,
you can see exactly what audience this is aimed at.

(21:42):
And this is why such books like this are quite
dangerous because basically, like using an issue like gun control
as to sort of soft in to Nazism, essentially, it
doesn't stay soft for very long. Eighteen months ago, all
guns were banned under the in Act, and yes that.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
Is a act. There's no subtlety, no nuance to this
guy's right.

Speaker 4 (22:11):
No, not at all. Now, the Coenacts gave the penalty
of ten years in prison for hiding Wait, Greg, you
have no idea. I'm telling you this is incredible. So
the coen Act basically gives a penalty of ten years
in prison for hiding guns. But many didn't hide a

(22:32):
hand in their guns, and so they were raided by
agents and the system. And Turner describes his house being
raided all the way back in nineteen eighty nine. Now
he has got a load of guns hidden in an
oil barrel buried in the forest miles away from his home.
But he decided that he wanted to have a three
p fifty seven magnum stashed inside the doorframe of his home.

(22:59):
And he's confident that can't be found but in a
police search. But a police search would never uncook, would
never uncover it, and these inexperienced blacks couldn't find it
in a million years. Yeah, Yeah, it's one of those.
Like it's very very open in its idea that black
people are very stupid and also have a predilecge for crime,

(23:22):
which is one of the main themes of the book,
which will come on too shortly.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
And am I right in this that all the police
are black as well?

Speaker 4 (23:30):
Most of the police are black for reasons that are
stupid and racist.

Speaker 3 (23:38):
But yeah, I think that's going to be the answer
to most decisions in this book.

Speaker 4 (23:43):
Yeah, there is a very specific reason that there's a
convoluted law which will come on to you when we
get to it, which is very reminiscent of today. I'll
just give you a hint before we come on to it,
but two tier policing. Keep that in mind. His house
is raided at five a m. By four black police

(24:04):
officers who are armed with baseball bats and knives, because
of course they fucking are. But these are special deputies
for the Northern Virginia Human Relations Council, and they're searching
for guns and Turner hasn't turned in the eight guns
it was previously known to have bought before the gun ban.

(24:24):
So he suspect, which is one of those things. He's like,
that's you were bound to get. That's stupid, like you know,
by illegal guns or something.

Speaker 5 (24:33):
Also, why aren't you sending armed police if you're going
to look for someone who has gone.

Speaker 4 (24:38):
Who's got a gun? Yeah, yeah, I think it's basically
because they want to just well, we know what the
reason is. It's they want to pick black men as
thugs that would use melee weapons. Yeah, but it's he
initially thinks it's a robbery. My first thought was that
they were robbers. Yeah, robberies if this sort of has

(25:04):
become all too common since the coen Act, with groups
of blacks forcing their way into white homes to rob
and rape, knowing that even if their victims had guns,
they probably would not dare use them, which obviously raises
the question then why keep them like It explains the
reason for that later. But at the minute, you.

Speaker 6 (25:26):
Telling me there's going to be plot holes in this nil, Well, yeah,
this is huge and when it by the time it finishes,
you'll be astonished what they have to do to achieve
their white utopia.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
But no spoilers. And but yeah, there is certain laws
that explain why they potentially wouldn't shoot people. But they
come onto that later. So a white man called Tepper
arrives and he's in charge of the raids, and he
uses a stud finder, you know, like builders use, and
he finds Turner's hidden gun really really quickly, and Turner's

(26:05):
neighbors are also arrested, and the Raiders they keep referring
to Turner as a known racist. Racist is a term
that is used a lot in this book, and every
single time it seemed inverted commas every single time, like
as if to say, well, it's exactly to say that

(26:27):
racist is racist. That's this is racist. This is just
I mean, you know, we hate black people and all
non whites, Jews and Muslims and everybody. Really, but it's
it's racist. Such a stupid, woke term. And this was
in the seventies as well, you know, it's it's ridiculous.
But again this shows him to be an over confident idiot. Right,

(26:50):
they did find his gun really easily, which basically shows
that it's a very badly written book. Now, these raids
lead to over eight hundred thousand arrests. So these eight
hundred thousand white people labeled as racists who've been keeping
these guns. But due to the vast numbers, they basically

(27:12):
release everybody after a few days because they haven't really
got anywhere to put them. And the book continues. One
of the details which bothered people was that the raiders
had for the most part exempted black neighborhoods from the searchers.
The explanation given at first was this was that since
racists in inverted commas were the ones primarily suspected of

(27:33):
harboring firearms, there was relatively little need to search black homes.
And this is very much stated in the book as
if it's unreasonable, But in literally the previous fucking paragraph
he's explained that nearly a million white people were in
fact actually hiding guns, thus nullifying his point completely, and

(27:56):
that will.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
Be a theme that goes on in this book.

Speaker 4 (27:58):
Basically, so back in the present day of the future,
which is nineteen ninety one, which is our past, obviously,
the organization is torn between lying low and using the
sympathy garnered from the public after these seemingly unfair raids
and assassinating federal judges and newspaper editors and legislators and

(28:20):
other system figures. And they're very possibly triggered also by
the recent release and subsequent success of Boys in the
Hood by John Singleton, which was released just prior to these.
To this the start of this book.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
You need to stop pegging this against real cultural events,
because there's such a golf.

Speaker 4 (28:47):
You're going to be very very disappointed too.

Speaker 5 (28:51):
It keep doing it, So the public.

Speaker 4 (28:54):
Mood shifts right and they decide not to act. Yet
by act they mean kill a load of like police
and stuff like that. And the book continues. As soon
as the public had been reassured by the media that
they were in no danger, that the government was cracking
down only on racists, fascists, and other anti social elements
who had kept illegal weapons, most relaxed again and went

(29:17):
back to their TV and funny papers. Now again, this
is depicted in the book as completely unreasonable, except he
is a racist. He is a fascist, he's open about it,
and he did have illegal weapons, as did all of
the other people that he knows who have joined this
terrorist organization that is explicitly racist. So again, but it continues.

(29:39):
As we realize this, we were more discouraged than ever.
We based all our plans, in fact, the whole rationale
of the organization on the assumption that Americans were inherently
opposed to tyranny, and when the system becomes oppressive enough,
they could be led to overthrow it. We had badly
underestimated the degree to which materialism had corrupted our fellows

(29:59):
to as well as to the extent to which their
feelings could be manipulated by the mass media feelings, which
are to not hate black people or Jewish people simply
for existing. That's the brainwashing that he's talking about in
this particular portion of the book. So basically they're all

(30:21):
a bit concerned because the threat of rearrest for the
guns is hanging over them, and also it makes it
difficult for Turner to get work. So what they do
is they decide to start increasing their attempts to recruit
new members. Early last year, we began putting a number
of new members, unknown to the political police, into police

(30:43):
agencies and various quasi official organizations such as the Human
Relations Council. They served as our early warning network and
otherwise kept as generally informed of the systems plans against us.
So they've got like sleeper agents in the police, a
bit like in the film They Departed where you know,
Matt Damon is that although I can't imagine Mark Wahlberg

(31:07):
being involved in racially motivated violence, you know, never, No,
not Mark, Mark. Absolutely. So that's chapter one of the
Turner Diaries. It's It's quite the thing, isn't it. And
I'm telling you we're not you See, it's so bad.

(31:32):
I couldn't even think of a word. I just had
to use a noise. So we're onto chapter two Turner
with Henry, Catherine and George have managed to find a
small apartment to rent under a fake name, and they've
only got about fifty dollars as their bank accounts have
been frozen, and they've got limited supplies, and they've only

(31:54):
got a bike, a bicycle for transport. And I did
wonder whether it was a rally racer, because that would
be quite fitting. Anyway, we just be a new law
which requires a landlord to furnish the police with a
social security number of every new tenant, just like when
a person opens a bank account. And so again this
is playing on fears that actually still sort of like

(32:15):
a pervasive within conspiracy circles, and also sort of like
you know, privacy advocate advocacy groups and stuff like that,
that governments have too much data on you and require
too much information that could be used to track and
follow you. But it continues. George has met up with
Unit nine, and Unit nine is this other group from

(32:38):
the organization, and they're planning to create a network of groups,
and George meets with Unit nine and they sell him
a car. So the network will be established in ten days,
but until then we're on our own. Furthermore, when our
joint units, when our unit joins the network, it is
expected to have already solved its supply problem and be

(33:00):
ready to go into action in concert with other units.
If we had more money, we could solve all our problems,
including the fuel problem. Gasoline is always available on the
black market, of course, at ten dollars a gallon, which
is nearly twice what it costs as a filling station. Now,
I don't know whether you spotted that, but basically so
that they're creating this sort of network and they have

(33:21):
to be able to sort of function and sort of
kick up and stuff like that, and like you know,
it's almost like a sort of mafia thing where basically
they are expected to do stuff, or like a pyramid scheme,
which is more pyramids specist pyramid scheme. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
Basically, now what's interesting is, like the seeds, this is
kind of laying even like you know, we laughed at
this idea of like within the police and within the
army that they have people within the system to give
them like a heads up, And actually the reality is
in America there are cases of people in the middle
tree and people in the police.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
And the prison services.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
With links to the far right.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
You yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, well this is the thing again,
this is what we're going to see as we go
through this book. It's like, not only has it sort
of influenced a lot of the you know, horrific acts,
but it's also one of these things we're going to
be going hang on, that's a bit familiar. That sounds
very much like something that Alex Jones is said. That

(34:27):
sounds remarkably similar to what David I was saying.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
Wasn't this book linked with QAnon? When Amazon got rid
of a load of books that is sold it, we have.

Speaker 4 (34:38):
Been like, I'm not surprised because it's a similar sort
of thing. It's, you know, we're an underground going against
an evil government and you know, so so I could
certainly see why it would. It's it's illegal in France
and it's illegal in Germany. I'm not sure if Amazon
does carry it or not, but it's yeah, I wouldn't

(35:00):
be surprised if it was band for the connection to queue.
So Turner suggests that they rob a liquor store. My
inclination was just to walk into the first liquor store
we came, to knock the manager on the head with
the brick and scoop up the money from the cash register.
Henry wouldn't go along with that, though, He said that

(35:23):
we couldn't use means which contradicted our ends. If we
began praying on the public to support ourselves, we will
be viewed as a gang of common criminals. Regardless of
how lofty our aims are. You might want to remember that,
let's put a pin in that like that. They don't
want to be viewed as a gang of common criminals,

(35:43):
or to prey on the public. Put a brick on it. Yeah, Worse,
we will eventually begin to think of ourselves the same way.
Henry looks at everything in terms of our ideology. If
something doesn't fit, he'll have nothing to do with it. Anyway.
He convinced me that if we're going to rob liquor stores,
we have to do it in a socially conscious way.

(36:04):
If we're going to cave in people's heads with bricks,
they must be people who deserve it. By comparing the
liquor stores listed in the yellow pages of the telephone
directory with a list of supporting members of the Northern
Virginia Human Relations Council, which had been filched for us
by the girls we sent over there to do volunteer
work for them. We finally settled on Berman's Liquors and Wines,

(36:26):
Saul I. Berman, proprietor. And yes, that does sound Jewish,
and it never explains why exactly he deserves robbing or
why his shop is a socially conscious target other than
his name.

Speaker 5 (36:45):
His name, that's his description, is it right?

Speaker 4 (36:50):
So they decided to go in there armed with soap
bars in socks, so very much like that scene in
Full Metal Jacket Jacket. Yeah. And they go in there
and there's a black man working there, and so they
knock him out and they steal eight hundred dollars from
the till three stores down. Henry suddenly stopped and pointed

(37:11):
on at the sign on the door Berman's Deli. Without
a moment's hesitation, he pushed open the door and walked in.
Spurred on by a sudden, reckless impulse, I followed him
instead of trying to stop him. Berman himself was behind
the counter at the back Henry lured him out by
asking the price of an item near the front of

(37:31):
the store, which Berman couldn't see clearly from behind the counter.
As he passed me, I let him have it in
the back of the head as hard as I could.
I felt the bar of soap shatter from the force
of the blow. Berman went down, yelling at the top
of his lungs. Then he started crawling rapidly towards the
back of the store, screaming loudly enough to wake the dead.

(37:51):
I was completely unnerved by the racket and stood frozen.
Not Henry, though he leaped onto Burman's back, seized him
by the hair and cut his throat ear to ear
in one swift motion. Why there was really no needs
to do that, like at all? Right, like anyway, it continues.

(38:12):
The silence lasted about one second. Then a fat, grotesque
looking woman of about sixty, probably Berman's wife, came charging
out of the back room, waving a meat cleaver and
emitting an ear shrieking piece. Henry let fly at her
with a large glass jar of kosher pickles and scored
a direct hit. She went down in a spray of

(38:32):
pickles and broken glass. That's a sixty year old woman.
It's just smashed her in the face, like honestly, like
this is mental, This is very cleanly.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
It's the detail that the pickles were kosher as well.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:44):
Yeah, now he's.

Speaker 3 (38:47):
Really driving home a point here, isn't he?

Speaker 4 (38:50):
It is, But it is absolutely nothing compared to where
it will go into, how extreme it will get, so
you know, buckle up. So Turner's quite frightened, and he
chastises himself. I was terrified. It was more than an
hour before I'd stopped shaking and I had got enough
a grip of myself to talk without stuttering. Huh, some terrorist.

(39:12):
So Turner and George they plan to drive to Pennsylvania
to collect their hidden guns, and so they buy bootleg petrol,
and Turner explains that the system is both, which is,
the government is both oppressive and corrupt, partly due to
the number of non whites in positions at every level
of the bureaucracy. Yeah, it's not a subtle The silence

(39:37):
about us in the newspapers is worrisome. The Berman thing
the other day wasn't connected to us, of course, and
it was given only a paragraph in today's post. Robberies
of that sort, even where there is a killing involved,
are so common these days that they merit no more
attention than a traffic accident. But the fact that the
government launched a massive roundup of known organization members last Wednesday,

(39:58):
and that nearly all of us, more than two thousand
persons have managed to slip through their fingers and drop
out of sight, why isn't that in the papers. The
news media are collaborating closely with the political police, of course,
for what is their strategy against us? There was one
small Associated Press article on the back page of yesterday's
paper mentioning the arrest of nine racists in Chicago and

(40:22):
four in Los Angeles on Wednesday. The article said that
all thirteen who were arrested were members of the same organization,
evidently as but no further details were given. Curious. Now,
you may remember that there was a woman living with
them called Catherine, and it turns out that she's really

(40:43):
good at disguises, so and she helps all the members
change their appearance. Yes, that's right, the woman's good at
makeup and clothes. Because because it's not just racist, bigoted
and insane, there's a massive smattering of casual sexism thrown
in for good measure basically, So it's in many ways

(41:06):
it's indiscriminate in its discrimination. So that's chapter two. Chapter three,
Turner and Henry travel to the woods of Pennsylvania to
retrieve their guns buried in an oil drum. But they
can't get the drum out of the ground, so they
decide to just open it and take the guns out.

(41:26):
And they only bring mail bags and the guns are
so heavy, so it takes them three trips, which are
two miles each, to transport the guns to the car. Now,
the thing that struck me is like, why are they
living in the woods, Like, you know, these are supposed
to be sort of militia types and stuff like that.
Evidently these woods are not like bothered by people. They've

(41:47):
been able to dig up these fucking guns and walk
backwards and forwards and stuff like that, go and live
in the woods, but they don't.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
So again, more plot holes.

Speaker 4 (41:57):
Well it's just badly written. Yeah, But on the way
back to Washington, we stopped at a small roadside cafe
near Hagerstown for sandwiches and coffee. There are about a
dozen people in the place, and the eleven o'clock news
was just beginning on the TV set behind the counter.
When we walked in. It was a news broadcast. I'll
never forget. The big story of the day was that
the organization had been up to. The big story of

(42:20):
the day was what the organization had been up to
in Chicago. The system, it seems, had killed one of
our people, and in turn we had killed three of
theirs and then engaged in a spectacular and successful gunfight
with the authorities. Nearly the whole newscast was occupied in
recounting these events. We already knew from the papers that

(42:40):
nine of our members had been arrested in Chicago last week,
and apparently they had had a rough time in the
county jail, where one of them had died. It was
impossible to be sure exactly what had happened from what
the TV announcer had said, but if the system had
behaved true to form, the authorities had stuck our people
individually into cells full of blacks and then shut their

(43:00):
eyes and their ears to what ensued. And again this
is presented as unreasonable in the book, and it would
be had in the previous chapter they not described caving
a black guy's head, slitting the throat of an elderly
Jewish man and beating his wife to death with a
glass jar. So again, there's a bit of a persecution

(43:21):
complex that some might see as a little bias that
runs through this book. So anyway, the Chicago Organization decided
to get revenge. Anyway, the day after our man, the
newscaster said his name was Carl Hodges, someone I've never
heard of before. Oh sorry, anyway, the day after our man,
the newscaster said his name was Carl Hodges, someone I

(43:42):
had not heard of before, was killed. The Chicago Organization
fulfilled a promise they'd made more than a year ago
in the event one of our people was ever seriously
hurting the Chicago jail. They ambushed the Cook County sheriff
outside his home and blew his head off with a shotgun.
They left a note into his body which read, this
is for Carl Hodges. That was last Saturday night. On Sunday,

(44:06):
the system was up in arms. The sheriff of Cook
County had been a political big wig, a front ranch
Shabbas goy, and they were really raising hell yep, mate,
I'm telling you this is nothing. Although they broadcast the
needs only to the Chicago area on Sunday, they trotted
out several pillars of the community there to denounce the

(44:28):
assassination and the organization in special TV appearances. One of
the spokesmen was a Responsible Conservative and another was the
head of the Chicago Jewish community. All of them described
the organize the organization as a gang of racist bigots,
and called on alright thinking Chicagoans to cooperate with the
political police in apprehending the racists who had killed the sheriff.

(44:53):
Well early this morning, the responsible Conservative lost both his
legs and suffered severe internal injuries when a bomb went
to the ignition of his car exploding. The Jewish spokesman
was even less fortunate. Someone walked up to him while
he was waiting for an elevator in the lobby of
his office building, pulled a hatchet from under his coat,
cleave the good Jew's head from crown to shoulder. Blades

(45:14):
then disappeared in the rush hour crowd yep. The organization
immediately claimed responsibility for both acts and again just in
isis mate? Yes, yes, that's a theme that might pop
up later, and no they they simultaneously object to the

(45:36):
term racist whilst being racist and using it as a
term of oppression against white people, like you call us
racist just because we hate all non whites. Can't you
see that it's you that are the real racists. That's
what it was trying to say. And it's it's fucking stupid.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
This is just all like a fascist kind of wet dream,
just kind of esculate very more victim complex escalating.

Speaker 4 (46:04):
It's all of that. Take violence, yeah, and it's all
of that. It's all of that just rolled up to eleven.
When we get onto one of the main plot points,
you'll see how it is basically one of the fears
that is very prevalent today absolutely dialed up to eleven.
And that's again a reason that we're doing this because basically,
like that's where these stupid ideas lead to. They have

(46:25):
to start. No one starts at eleven other than spinal tap, right,
You've got to start and be introduced into these things
and become indoctrinated and before you know it, basically like
very very stupid ideas, I'm telling you, Like, when did
this main plot point comes in? You can be like,
that's like Alex Jones's fucking nightmare, like and yeah, we'll

(46:49):
come onto that. So there's a second shoot out that's
broadcast on TV, and Turner is rather disgusted at this.
He explains that the TV is hungry to see killing,
and what he's trying to imply here is like some
sort of societal sickness, right, well, seemingly forgetting that he's
part of a fucking terror organization that kills people. Yeah,

(47:12):
there's a lot of that, right.

Speaker 5 (47:14):
And William Pearce is obviously criticizing that while making a
book that also does the same thing.

Speaker 4 (47:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah, it's very, very stupid. So
in the shootout this badcast on the television, the organization
members use a sniper rifle to pick off black cops
and this, you know, this was emanated by several criminals
that were influenced by the Turner diaries. So the TV
announces that their racists get away. And when this is said,

(47:45):
a waitress smiles, indicating to Turner that there's a feeling
of support in the general public, or maybe she wanted
a tip, Like, you know, that reminded me a bit
of the people who are like I think the girl
in the fancies me. She keeps telling me all these
clothes look really good on me, and that I should
buy them. It's like, yeah, all right, mate.

Speaker 3 (48:08):
There's this real kind of vanguardist kind of you know,
just bubbling under the narrative, right that they are the
select few and the people will support them, but they're
the ones that have to push it over.

Speaker 4 (48:21):
That was also the name of the publishing company, National Vanguard. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So the news scene switched to Washington, where the Attorney
General of the United States had called a special news conference.
The Attorney General announced the nation that the federal government
was throwing all of its police agencies into an effort
to root out the organization. He described US as depraved,

(48:42):
racist criminals who were motivated solely by hatred and who
wanted to undo all the progress towards true equality which
had been made by the system in recent years. All
citizens were worn to be alert and assist the government
in breaking up the racist conspiracy. And that's actually a
completely accurate description, even by Earl Turner's own standards. It's

(49:03):
a complete As you said before, this is absolute victimization, pawn.
It's like, oh God, when will I catch a break?
The straight white male like, it's yeah, it's very very dap.
So the system, the government announces that anyone helping these

(49:26):
terrorists will be dealt with severely, and Turner compares this
to Stalin's Russia. And also they are very anti communists
as well, so this is the right way saying that,
and again put a pin in that because that might
pop up later. So these these news broadcasts actually increase
support for the organization. And Turner wants to give leaflets

(49:47):
to everybody inside the restaurant, like, because you know, that's
really a good idea to announce that where what are
the terrorists?

Speaker 5 (49:54):
Like you all to join?

Speaker 4 (49:57):
But he decides not to. He's warned against it, and
they explain how this works.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
R okay.

Speaker 4 (50:03):
The underground unit consists of members who are known to
the authorities and have been marked for arrest. Their function
is to destroy the system through direct action. The legal
units consist of members not presently known to the system. Indeed,
it would be impossible to prove that most of them
are members. In this we have taken a page from
the Communists book. Their role is to provide us with intelligence, funding,

(50:25):
legal defense, and other support. Whenever an illegal spots a
potential recruit, he is supposed to turn the information over
to a legal who will approach the prospect and sound
him out. The legals who are supposed to handle all
the low risk propaganda activities such as leafleting. Strictly speaking,
we should not even have had any organization leaflets with

(50:46):
us now. Anti communism is often a euphemism for Nazism
or a justification for far right beliefs, and also that
the New World Order conspiracy theory has versions where it's
a communist takeover. But also Communist has been tied to
Jews by people like Hitler and also by conspiracy theorists

(51:07):
who talk about Jewish Bolshvism. And this is partly based
on the idea that Lenin and Trotsky were being were Jewish,
although Lenin and Trotsky both denounced that, you know that
you don't have religion in communism. Also a lot of
people go Marx was Jewish, and again he was actually
very opposed to Jews. Do you know that Marx actually

(51:31):
wrote an essay called on the Jewish Problem just before
World War Two? And that's where Hitler got the name
the concept of the Jewish problem because what he was
talking about really was like, is there a you know,
is there a homeland for the Jews? And stuff like that.
But there was a strong streak of anti Semitism, particularly

(51:52):
in early Marx's work, and so again all of these
conspiracy theorists is just nonsense essentially. But so they move
into new safe house and Turner fixes the heating, the lighting,
and the plumbing and to make it livable.

Speaker 5 (52:07):
So the beginning in a chapter, you were asking why
doesn't he live Why don't they live in the forest,
Why don't they live in the woods. I was thinking
about it, and I think it's really a plot hole. No,
to be fair, they are part of the you know,
the takeover. They have to be in the city for it.

Speaker 4 (52:25):
When yeah, that's true, Yeah that is true. Yeah, fair enough.
So chapter four, Turner is setting up this network, this
communications system using radio, human couriers and codes. The system
is arresting anybody that's affiliated with the organization as a
response to Chicago. So Turner explains, one thing on which

(52:49):
they're working is a computerized universal internal passport system. Every
person twelve years or more of age will be issued
with a passport and will be required, under threat of
severe pace penalties, to carry it at all times. Real
ID cards. Ooh, Now, only can a person be stopped
on the street by any police agent and ask to
show his passport that They've worked out a plan to

(53:12):
make the passport necessary for many everyday operations, such as
purchasing an airline, bus, or train ticket, registering in a
motel or hotel, and receiving any medical service in a
hospital or clinic. All ticket counters, motels, physicians, officers, and
the like will be equipped with computer terminals linked by
telephone lines to a huge national data bank and computer center.

(53:32):
A customer's magnetically coded passport number will be routinely fed
into the computer whenever he buys a ticket, pays a bill,
or registers for a service. If there's any irregularity, a
warning light will go off on the nearest police precinct station,
showing the location of the offending computer terminal and the
unfortunate customer. They've been developing this internal passport system for

(53:53):
several years now and have everything worked out in detail.
The only reason it hasn't been put into operation has
been squawked from liberties groups who see it as another
big step towards a police state, which of course it is.
But now the system is sure it can override the
resistance of the Libertarians by using us as an excuse
anything is permitted in the fight, in the fight against racism. Now,

(54:16):
who does that remind you of? It reminds me a
lot of Alex Jones, Old Alex Jones actually the book actually,
to be fair, the book reminds me of Alex Jones
in a lot of ways. But that specifically also a
vaccine passport hysteria, lies about the Chinese social credit system

(54:38):
and stuff like.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
That, And this just resonates with every all the kind
of conspiratorial stuff from the nineties fruits like the present day.

Speaker 4 (54:46):
Yes, exactly. The roots are all there, and that's how
they sort of get people into these sort of militia
groups and stuff like that. And also that's that's the inn,
that's the that's the end, the sort of feeder, so
to speak.

Speaker 5 (55:00):
You did say he was in John Birch, didn't he he.

Speaker 4 (55:03):
Was, He left because it was not racist enough for him.

Speaker 5 (55:07):
But he did continue the conspiracy believe, Yeah, yeah, very much.

Speaker 4 (55:12):
So, yeah, yeah, totally yeah, And as I said, that's
the John Birch were convinced that the New World Order
was a communist takeover. Everything was the communist plot to that.

Speaker 5 (55:21):
So but he wouldn't condemn Jews. That's what it was
with Robert Welch. Well, he said the the insiders are
not Jewish. Basically, the people who run the whole show
are not the Jewish people. Oh, I see, that's probably
where he was like, Oh, you're not racist enough.

Speaker 4 (55:43):
He is, absolutely And.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
It's so funny how this has taken like the language
of the left of communism. It's talking about them as comrades,
as revolutionaries fighting against the system. Yeah, it's again how
the far right is positioned now, especially post kind of
covid as, like the right is the radical alternative to

(56:10):
the mainstream. So yeah, it's fascinating again just seeing how
these routs have come.

Speaker 4 (56:15):
From conservative is the new punk It very much. It
couldn't be more different. So anyway, Turner goes to Maryland
to visit Unit two and help them set up a
transmitter because they're they're absolutely cluelest regarding electrical systems. Now,

(56:36):
this paragraph is going to go on for a long time,
and it will be very clear later why I've done this,
Like this is just a this is to give you
a flavor of the book, and how laboriously he describes
shit and particularly shit that no one's really interested in,
except when he describes how to make the bomb that
Timothinkvy then basically copied the instructions from But these the.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
Easter eggs, you're gonna like pull out from the text.

Speaker 4 (57:03):
Oh yeah, yeah. We when we come to bits that
have influenced the terror organizations, we will talk about that
and how it did and who was connected to it
and that. So this is how he describes this radio
setup or setting up the sort of communication system. Unit
two is reasonably close to two other units, but all

(57:23):
three are inconveniently far from the other nine Washington area units,
and especially from Unich nine, which was the only unit
with a transmitter for contacting WFC. That w f C.
He never explains it until later in the book. It
stands for Washington Field Command. I was reading this book.
If the fuck is WFC like Wrexham like I thought

(57:46):
it was the football club Jesus like they've changed anyway.
So Union nine, which was the only unit with a
transmitter for contacting WFC. Because of this, do we FC
had decided to give Unich to a transmitter, but they
hadn't been able to make it work. The reason for
their difficulty became obvious as soon as they ushered me
into the kitchen with a transmitter, an automobile storage battery,

(58:07):
and some odds and ends of wire were spread out
on a table. Despite the explicit instructions which I had
prepared to go with each transmitter, and despite the plainly
visible markings beside the terminals on the transmitter case, they
had managed to connect the battery to the transmitter with
the wrong polarity. I sighed and got a couple of
their fellows to help me bring in my equipment from

(58:28):
the car. First, I checked their battery and found it
to be almost completely discharged. I told them to put
the battery on the charger while I checked out the
transmitter charger. What charger they wanted to know? They didn't
have one. Because of the uncertainty of the availability of
electrical power from the lines these days, all our communication
equipments is operated from storage batteries which had trickled down

(58:51):
charged from the lines. This way, we're not subject to
the power blackouts and brownouts which have become a weekly,
if not daily, phenomenon in recent years with other public
facilities in this country. The higher the price of electricity
assumed less dependable it has become. In August of this year,
for example, residential electrical services in the Washington area was
out completely for an average of a total of four days,

(59:14):
and the voltage was reduced by more than fifteen percent
for an average total of fourteen days. The government keeps
holding hearings and conducting investigations and issuing reports about the problem,
but it just keeps getting worse. None of the politicians
are willing to face the real issues involved here, one
of which is the disastrous effect Washington's israel dominated foreign
policy during the last two decades has had on America's

(59:35):
supply of foreign oil. I showed them how to hold
up the battery to the truck for the emergency charge,
and then began looking into the transmitter to see what
damage you've been done, But charging for their battery would
have to be found later. The most critical part of
the transmitter, the coding unit which generates the digital signal
from the pocket calculator keyboard, seemed to be okay. It
was protected by a diode from the damage due to
a polarity error in the transmitter itself. However, three transistors

(59:58):
have blown. I was pretty sure w BFC had at
least one more spare transmitter in stock, but in order
to find out I would have to get a message
to them, which meant sending a courier over to the
Unit nine to transmit a query and then arranging to
have someone from WFC delivered the transmitter to us. I
hesitated to b the WFC in view of our policy
of restricting radio transmissions from field units to messages of

(01:00:19):
some urgency. Since Unit two needed a battery charger anyway,
I decided to obtain the replacement transistors from a commercial
supply house. At the same time, I picked up a charger,
and then I installed them myselves. Locating the parts I
needed turn out to be easier said than done, however,
and it was six in the evening when I finally
got back to the farmhouse. I am sorry. I'm so
sorry for that. I could see you both starting to

(01:00:42):
die inside.

Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
I mean, at least, it's probably the least racist bit
of the book I've heard.

Speaker 5 (01:00:50):
But yeah, yeah, that's what I giggle about. Like, well,
I forgot that we were even talking about a tangent
just right in the middle of the.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
Right. So I did that on purpose, because in the
very next paragraph. Well, what he does then is he
drops one of the batteries on his foot and breaks
his foot. And then he drives back to Chicago, and
Catherine is waiting there for him. And I want you
to remember how fucking long and boring that paragraph was
about batteries, and then listen to how briefly he describes

(01:01:26):
this sex scene, because, for reasons that are not explained,
Catherine seduces him. Now, remember that took me about ten
minutes to read that thing about the battery. I undressed,
got a towel and opened the door to the shower,
and there was Catherine, wet naked and lovely, standing under
the bare light bulb and drying herself. She looked at

(01:01:49):
me without surprise and said nothing. I stood there for
a moment, and then, instead of apologizing and closing the door,
I impulsively held out my arms to Catherine. Hesitantly, she
stepped towards me. Nature took her course. That's it, right.

(01:02:13):
Do you see what I'm saying? Do you see how
like he's spent so long talking about fucking and batteries
and stuff like that, and then his sex scene is
Nature took her course.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
Clearly, Some relationship between sexual repression and like fascism potentially.

Speaker 4 (01:02:28):
I mean it's not it's not easy to write a
Nazi tinged fascist sex scene, like if we're being fair, true,
but it's not impossible. His generative order rose like Hitler salute.
He could feel the racial purity coursing through him, and
the pride of generations of white ancestors swelling within him.

(01:02:51):
He trapped her in a pincer movement. His western front
stood exposed. He swung around like the turret of a Panza,
and he invaded herritory in blitz Creek fashion, efficient, ruthless,
crushing her defensive barriers. He gripped his stick grenade and
slung it in the direction of her foxhole. She felt
the mystical power of his spear of destiny. They became

(01:03:13):
iron volk and he declared victory. And I did try
and get a fokker in there as well, but I
just couldn't think how to cram it in. But so
as you can see, it's it's not impossible to write
a fascist sexy and.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
He's just did you write that?

Speaker 4 (01:03:29):
Yeah? That's me. Yeah. I wanted to show William Pearson that, yeah,
you can write a sexy Nazi scene.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
About three lines in.

Speaker 5 (01:03:41):
I was like, holy shit, it's Neil.

Speaker 4 (01:03:43):
He's done it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
Yeah, so beautifully poetic, and I was quite pleased with
that cryptid with fascist imagery, like it's.

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
Not impossible, like you know, so, yeah, you want to
see my hitler Gerbel's slash fiction. That's that's incredible anyway. Catherine,
her previous life is described. It says four years ago

(01:04:16):
before the gun raids, she was a congressman's secretary, because
obviously that's the sort of jobs that women.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
Do, women too, right, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:04:25):
She lived in her Washington apartment with another girl who
also worked on Capitol Hill. One evening, when Catherine came
home from work, she found her apartment mate's body lying
in a pool of blood on the floor. She had
been raped and killed by a Negro intruder. He doesn't
explain exactly how he knows that, like, but you know, again,
just that's in there. And that's why Catherine bought a

(01:04:48):
pistol and kept it even after the coen act made
good ownership an Eagle. Then, along with nearly a million others,
she was swept up in the gun raids of nineteen
eighty nine, it's so reasonable when he explains it, though
idiot anyway. Although she'd never had any previous contact with
the organization, she met George in the detention center and

(01:05:10):
where they were both held after being arrested in the
gun rates right, and she'd been a political and if
anyone had asked her during her time that she was
working for the government, or before that, when she was
a college student, she would have probably said that she
was a liberal. But she was a liberal only in
the mindless automatic way that most people are without about
it or trying to analyze it. She superficially accepted the

(01:05:32):
unnatural ideology peddled by the mass media and the government.
So she's very much the Dave Rubin of the group.
She didn't leave the left the left, and then obviously,
you know, she joined a terror organization dedicated to eradicating
people of color. It's a tale as old as time,

(01:05:54):
so so it goes on. She had none of the bigotries,
none of the guilt and self hatred that it takes
to make a really committed, full time liberal. After the
police released them, George gave us some books on race
and history and some organization publications to read for the

(01:06:16):
first time in her life, she began thinking seriously about
the important racial, social, and political issues at the roots
of today's problems. She trued that she learned the truth
about the system's equality hoax. She gained an understanding of
the unique historical roles of the Jews as the ferment
of the decomposition of race and civilization. More importantly, she

(01:06:39):
began acquiring a sense of racial identity, overcoming a lifetime
of brainwashing aimed at reducing her to an isolated human
atom in a cosmopolitan chaos. Right, so they're brainwashing her
whilst claiming that she's been brainwashed. They're literally using cult tactics,

(01:07:00):
explained how nothing was her fault, how the world really was,
what her place in the world is, and then they
surrounded with like minded people who loved her and give
her an identity after she's gone through a massive trauma. Now,
I don't think that was on purpose. Again, I just
think that like that, this is fucking that, this is

(01:07:20):
the whole whole thing, basically, it's it's astonishing. Right, then
the unit receives orders. Now see if you can spot
who this next bit might have influenced. For the time being, However,
there are problems to worry about, big ones. When George

(01:07:42):
and Henry finally got back this evening, we found out
what they've been doing all day, casing the FBI's national
headquarters Downtown. Our unit has been assigned with the task
of blowing it up. The initial order came all the
way down from Revolutionary command and a man was sent
from the Eastern Command Center to the WFC briefing. George
tended Sunday to look over the local unit leaders and

(01:08:02):
pick one for the assignment. Apparently, Revolutionary commanders decided to
take the offensive against the political police before they arrest
too many of our legals or finish setting up their
computerized passport system. George was given the word after he
was summoned by WFC for a second briefing yesterday. A
man from Unit eight was also at yesterday's briefing. Unit
eight will be assisting us. A plan roughly is this

(01:08:25):
Unit eight will secure a large quantity of explosives between
five and ten tons. Our unit will hijack a truck
make a legitimate delivery to the FBI headquarters Wondervous at
the location where Unit eight will be waiting with the explosives.
And switch loads. We will then drive into the FBI's
buildings freight receiving area, set the fuse, and leave the truck.
While Unit eight is solving the problem of the explosives,

(01:08:46):
we have to work out all the other details of
the assignment, including the determination of the FBI's freight delivery
schedules and procedures. We've been given a ten day deadline.
My job will be to design the construction and the
mechanism of the bomb itself. Yeah, that's starting the bit
that heavily influenced Timothy McVay. It will go on and

(01:09:06):
you will explain in graphic detail how to make a
bomb out of fertilizer, which is exactly what Timothy McVay did.
And so chapter five begins and Turner spends about three
pages explaining how fucking security system works. I'm not going
to read it to you because it's terrible.

Speaker 3 (01:09:28):
But again, this is just so fascinating. How because originally
you said this was put out like in a magazine,
right like in chapter form, and how they've kind of
like I wonder if there was almost legal reasons why
they've dressed up this story, which effectively is like a
manual for their ideology and then offering ways of building bombs, etc.

(01:09:53):
They can basically put this out through their payper Well it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:56):
Was yeah, they probabish it themselves basically, so this was
the thing. But yeah, absolutely right. It's a trojan horse
of proper Ganda. Yeah, when I said that I had
missed out a bit about the security system, I've not
missed all of it out, but just most of it.
So it continues October third, nineteen ninety one, which is

(01:10:18):
actually five days before the release of Bad Motorfinger by
a Sound Garden and also Cool as Ice by Vanilla Ice. Anyway,
Turner continues, I've been breaking up my work on the
FBI project with some handyman activity around our building. Last
night I finished our perimeter alarm system. Today I did
some rough and very dirty work on our emergency escape tunnel.

(01:10:38):
Along both sides of the back of the building. I
buried a row of precious sensitive pads which are wired
to a light and then alarmbers are inside. The pads
are the sort of which are often installed underdoor mats
inside stores to signal the arrival of the customer. They
consist of two foot long metal strips sealed inside a
flexible plastic sheet and they're waterproof. They're covered by an
inch of soil, and they're undetectable, but they will see

(01:11:00):
signals if anyone steps on the ground above them. This
method could not be used in front of our building
because nearly all the ground there is covered by the
concrete driveway in the parking area. After considering and rejecting
an ultrasonic detective for the front, I settled on a
photoelectric beam with between two steel fence posts on either
side of the concrete area. In order to keep the
light source and photos sell unnoticeable, it was necessary to

(01:11:21):
place them inside the fence post on one side, with
a very small and inconspicuous reflector mounted on the other.
I had to drill several holes in one post, and
quite a bit of tinkering was necessary to make everything
work properly. Fucking ner in it, like you remember how
like briefed that sex scene was like Jesus Christ, Like,
I'm telling you the book is full of a shit

(01:11:43):
like that. It's it's a chore to get through. So
Turner completes the detonator for the planned the FBI building bomb.
The plan is to destroy the building with a truck
bomb and thus stop the coming passport scheme. I ever
told you my FBI building story. No, No, I was
on holiday, was about fifteen, and we went to Washington

(01:12:06):
and went to the FBI building. And before you go in,
you have to go through like metal detectors and like
a scanner, and then you have to put you have
to put all your belongings on one of those conveyor
belts with an X ray machine like in an airport.
So it's really strict security. And when we went in there,
the man in front of me had his wallet stolen

(01:12:28):
by the person's by somebody at the other end of
the conveyor belt.

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (01:12:33):
Yeah. So yeah, so in the FBI building for five
minutes had his wallet stolen. What year was this then, uh,
nineteen ninety five six something like that.

Speaker 5 (01:12:46):
So a few years after Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:12:48):
Yeah, luckily I missed this, like it was yeah, lucky,
like particularly because yeah, I was in New York for
a bit. And you don't want to I don't want
to spoil it, but it doesn't end well for New
York anyway. Six or seven years ago, when they first
started releasing trial balloons to see what the public reaction
to the new passport system would be. It was said

(01:13:09):
that its main purpose would be to detect illegal aliens
so that they could be deported. Now, I just want
to jump in there and say that this is exactly
how currently Alex Jones is defending Palenteer. Palenteer is trying
to make it us the data mining tool, and they're
trying to consolidate all different data streams into one sort

(01:13:30):
of place where essentially Paneteer will have what kind of
is a database of American citizens and essentially all their
data in one place, so there's no privacy. And Alex Jones,
because he's basically Trump's ass at the minute, and he's
trying to sort of court Peter Teel is explaining that
they're not going to do it to normal citizens. They're
only going to do it to track the legal immigrants

(01:13:52):
and to punish the deep state. And I just thought
that was interesting that that was what Earl Turner fears,
and that's what Alex own has tried to promote at
the minute. What a strange world we live in. Although
some citizens were properly suspicious of the whole scheme, most
swallowed the government's explanation of why the passports were needed. Thus,
many labor unions, who saw illegal aliens as the threat

(01:14:13):
of their jobs during a time of high unemployment, thought
it was a fine idea, while liberals generally opposed it
because it sounded racist, illegal aliens being virtually all non wide. Later,
when the government granted automatic citizenship to everyone who had
managed to sneak across the Mexican border and remain in
the country for two years, the liberal opposition evaporated, except

(01:14:34):
for a hardcore of libertarians who were still suspicious. All
in all, it has been depressively, depressingly easy for the
system to deceive and manipulate the American people, whether the
relatively naive Conservatives or the spoiled and pseudo sophisticated liberals.
The libertarians, inherently hostile to all government, will be intimidated

(01:14:57):
into going along when Big Brother announces that the new
passport system is necessary to find and root out racists,
namely US. Also, there's a massive flaw in this as well, Right, Okay,
he's saying, oh, illegal immigrants like bring down wages. Well,
you know, now they've naturalized all them. That problem has

(01:15:17):
been solved. So it appears again that the problem seems
to be the just their existence and not actual economic
strife or anything like that. Now Turner laments on how
America was lost, and see see how similar this sounds

(01:15:42):
to the totalitarian tiptoe which is presented a lot by
David Ike. If the freedom of the American people were
the only thing at stake, the existence of the organization
would hardly be justified. Americans have lost their right to
be free. Slavery is the just and state for people
who have grown as soft, self indulgent, careless, credulous, and

(01:16:04):
befuddled as we all have. Indeed, we are already slaves.
Fucking our steady on, Kanye. We've allowed a diabolically clever
alien minority to put chains on our souls and our minds.
These spiritual chains are a true mark of slavery than
the iron chains which are yet to come. We did.
Why didn't we rebel thirty five years ago when they

(01:16:26):
took our schools away from us and began converting them
into racially mixed jungles. Why didn't we throw them yet?
Why didn't we throw them all out of the country
fifty years ago? Instead of letting them use ers as
can and fodder in their water, subjugate Europe. I don't
know what, and I have no idea it's something racist.

(01:16:48):
Why didn't we rise up three years ago when they
started taking our guns away? Why didn't we rise up
in righteous fury and drag these arrogant aliens into the
streets and cut their throats? Then? Why didn't we roast
them over bonfires at every street corner in America? Why
didn't we make a final end to this obnoxious and
eternally pushy clan, this pestilence from the sewers of the East,

(01:17:12):
instead of meekly allowing ourselves to be disarmed. The answer
is easy. We would have rebelled if it all of
that had been imposed on us in the last fifty years,
if it had all been attempted at once. But because
the chains that binders were forged imperceptibly, link by link,
we submitted. The adding of any single new link in
the chain was never enough for us to make a

(01:17:34):
big fuss about it. It always seemed easier and safer
to go along, And the further we went, the easier
it was to just go one step further. One thing
that historians will have to decide if any men of
our race survived to write the history of this era
is the relative importance of deliberation and inadvertence in converting
us from a society of freedmen free men to a

(01:17:55):
herd of human cattle. That is, can we justly blame
what has happened to us entirely on deliberate subversion carried
out through the insidious propaganda of the controlled mass media,
the schools, the churches, or the government. Or must we
place a large share of the blame on the inadvertent
decadence in the spiritually debilitating lifestyle into which the Western

(01:18:17):
people have allowed themselves to slip in the twentieth century.
Probably the two things are intertwined, and it would be
difficult to blame either use separately. Brainwashing has made decadence
more acceptable to us, and decadence has made us less
resistant to brainwashing. In any event, we're too close to
the trees now to see the outline of the forest.
But one thing that is quite clear is that much

(01:18:37):
more than our freedom is at stake if the organization
fails in its task now everything will be lost, our history,
our heritage, or the blood and sacrifice and upward striving
of countless thousands of years, the enemy we are fighting
fully intends to destroy the racial basis of our existence. Now,
aside from the racist angle of it, doesn't that sound

(01:18:58):
exactly like David Ike?

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:19:01):
Yeah, seriously, it sounds like most kind of yeah narratives,
territorial narratives.

Speaker 4 (01:19:08):
Yeah. I'm not suggesting that that David Aikers has copied this,
or or even that he was influenced by it, just
simply that basically, like two things, One this book is
consciously using that conspiratorial thing, and two that sort of
thing has spread again into the conspiracy through far right organizations.

Speaker 5 (01:19:28):
Basically, can you also can we go back to that
bit that you and I were both confused about with
the Europe and the war a bit m I was
thinking about it, and I think he might be talking
about like Jewish people who came over.

Speaker 4 (01:19:43):
Yeah, I think that's what. Yeah, there is a bit
later where he makes references to well, there's several bits
later he makes references to Hitler, and so yes, I
think you're absolutely right there. I think that that is
just like and here's the stip thing, right, Okay, this
again shows you what the point of this book is.

(01:20:05):
There's a certain demographic of people who will go, I
know exactly who's fucking talking about yeah, And then there'll
be other people yeah, yeah, quite, and then there'll be
other people who go who have to think about it.
But the thinking about it in some way sort of
legitimizes it, because you're sort of putting a certain like
a quasi academic slant on it. You've reasoned it out, Oh,

(01:20:27):
it must be Jewish people. And that's why this book
is dangerous again, because people will go, shit, it makes sense,
like you know, not bright people obviously, but like you
know people. So Turner and Henry invited to a meeting
of Revolutionary Command to discuss the planned bombing, but they're

(01:20:50):
concerned about not having enough explosives. As carefully as we could,
we calculated that we should have at least ten thousand
pounds of TNT or an equivalent explosive to destroy a
substantial portion of the building and rep the new computer
center in the sub basement. To be on the safe side,
we asked for twenty thousand pounds. Instead, what we have
is little under five thousand pounds, and nearly all of

(01:21:12):
that is ammonium nitrate fertilizer, which is much less effective
than TNT for our purposes. So Timothy mcbay's bomb was
also made with fertilizer in a very similar way. And
so I'm just going to just come away from the
Book of in it now just to talk about a

(01:21:32):
lot of the things that have been influenced by the book.
In nineteen eighty three, inspired by the Turner Diaries, three
members of this group called the Covenant the Sword and
the Arm of the Lord plotted to bomb the Alfred P.
Murra Federal Building using a truck bomb. So they were
going to do it nearly ten years or twelve years

(01:21:54):
before Timothy invaded it, but the plan didn't go into action.
They never fulfilled it. The Covenant of the Sword in
the Arm of the Lord was a far right survivalist
anti government militia group which advocated Christian identity and was
active in the United States during the nineteen seventies and
early nineteen eighties. Member Richard Wayne Snell, who died in

(01:22:18):
April nineteen ninety five, was an American white supremacist convicted
of killing a pawn shop owner whom he mistook for
a jew, and a black police officer in Arkansas on
November the third, nineteen eighty three and June the thirties
nineteen eighty four, respectively, so he could claim that he's
copying the killings in the Turner diaries. So the CSA

(01:22:39):
believed that doomsday was imminent, and they had this two
hundred and twenty four acre compound in a place called
Elijah that it had acquired from Campus Crusade, and they
basically had like a commune there where it trained its
members in paramilitary operations. The group was believed in white
supremacy and was also very very anti Semitic. They believed

(01:23:04):
that the United States government was what's called zog, which
is a Zionist occupied government. Yes, yeah, so essentially that
is hidden influence from Israel and Jewish people essentially. So
in nineteen eighty two, the military leader of the group
who ran its end time overcome a survival training camp

(01:23:26):
and used the name Randall Raider during his stay at
the compound, left the group along with thirty of his
followers in a rift with the leader, whose name was
James Ellison, following the latter's attempt to take a second
wife basically, and so he went off and formed and
joined another group which was called the Order, and the
Order is the one we spoke about earlier anyway, So

(01:23:50):
the CSA initially professed that the United States government would
dissolved to its corruption, whereas the Order advocated revolution, and
that was the differences basically. However, basically that changed in
nineteen eighty three, after this split, the CSA published a
manifesto called Attack Atta c k Aaryan Tactical Treaty for

(01:24:12):
the Advancement of Christ's Team Oh Dear Like, which declared
war on the government. So they started to copy the
Turner Diaries, and they had assassins, and they basically practiced
mock assassinations with sniper rifles, so very much like in
the Turner Diaries. And they also had like a like

(01:24:35):
a mock residential center on the compound where they do
like sort of swap tactic training and stuff like that. Yeah,
And basically it all started to go downhill in the
mid eighties and the CSA stopped basically paying the mortgage
on this ranch, and the bank foreclosed on them and

(01:24:57):
in the mid eighties to back control of it, except
the group decided to squat on the land and sat.
There were a lot of guns essentially trying to sort
of trying to like provoke a sort of Waco come
Ruby Ridge type siege essentially by the sounds of it.
But the ATF did eventually sort of raid and they decided,

(01:25:21):
so the FBI sort of raided in nineteen eighty five,
and the ATF found there one hundred and fifty five
krue grands, one live anti tank rocket, ninety four long guns,
thirty handguns, thirty five sword off shotguns, machine guns, one
heavy machine gun, and a quantity of C four plastic explosive.

(01:25:45):
So they were stockpiling weapons and they had plans to
attack the government, but essentially were raided by the FBI
due to due to financial mismanagement. Essentially not a particularly
organized group, thankfully. The Oklahoma City bombing occurred on the
tenth anniversary of the start of the siege of that compound.

(01:26:07):
How McVey actually stated that he chose the date of
the ninety of the veyhool because he wanted to perpetrate
the Oklahoma City bombing on the second anniversary of the
violent end of the Waco siege, but it's not clear
what the motivation was. He may have just said that
to sort of like just distance himself from the group
once he got caught, basically, But on the other hand,

(01:26:28):
they did actually travel to Waco, and he did cite
that and Ruby Ridge as events that motivated him. So
Tim thinkmvey prefer petraate to the Oklahoma City bombing killing
one hundred and sixty eight people. And he was found
with pages of the Turner Diaries in a plastic bag
in his car after the attack, and several fate phrases

(01:26:50):
were highlighted, including but the real value of all of
our attacks lies today in the psychological impact, not in
the immediate casualties. And we can still find them and
kill them.

Speaker 1 (01:27:04):
So hmm.

Speaker 4 (01:27:06):
Now, mc vey stated that while he did disagree with
the book's racism, he agreed with its message on gun rights.

Speaker 1 (01:27:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:27:14):
I don't know, to be quite honest, but the book
was actually the first piece of evidence that was shown
during his trial, and witness has testified that he was
obsessed with the book and sold it at gun shows.
And his attack was obviously very similar to the bombing
of the FBI headquarters. He actually originally plans to bomb
the FBI headquarters and then changed his mind, so after

(01:27:40):
the bombing, obviously that that barricade really re released the
book or released the book to the general public, and
Mark Talk of the Southern Poverty Law Center said in
the aftermath that William Pierce doesn't build bombs. He builds bombers. Now,
Pierce actually stated that his opinion on the bomb Pierce

(01:28:01):
at different times said that he supported the bombing, and
then at other times he denounced its desperate and foolish
and foolish basically, but then he sort of softened and
said that he didn't think that it had happened at
the right time, and then at other times he said
that basically approved of the bombing. Now, Tim, I think
Thatvey was one of the people that basically the Oaklama

(01:28:21):
boone was one of the things that they've got. Alex
Jenes started because he felt that the guy was friend exit.
The problem was that McVeigh confessed to it afterwards, and
he also told his friend Michael Fortier of his plans
to blow up the building, but forty eight didn't want
to get involved, and he later told his wife and
then they were both sort of like questioned after the

(01:28:42):
thing after the bombing and said, yeah, yeah, he's been
talking about this rages. He also composed two letters to
the ATF, the first which titled Constitutional Defenders, and the
second which just said an ATF read And he announced,

(01:29:02):
he denounced the government as fascist, tyrants and stormtroopers. And
he warned, and this will become clear. The swing bit
will become clearer towards the end of the book. ATF all,
you tyrannical motherfuckers will swing in the wind one day
for your treasonous actions against the Constitution of the United States,
remember the Nuremberg War trials. And now he and a

(01:29:24):
man called Terry Nichols constructed an ammonium nitrate fuel oil
explosive device mounted in the back of a rented rider truck.
The bomb was five thousand pounds of ammonium nitrate, which
is exactly the amount that was stated in the previous paragraph.
So on April the nineteenth, nineteen ninety five, McVeigh drove
his truck to the front of the Alfapree Mura building
just as his office is open for the day. Before arriving,

(01:29:48):
he stopped to light a two minute fuse. Nine oh two,
a large explosion occurred in the north half of the building,
killing one hundred and sixty eight people, including nineteen children.
In the daycare center and injured six hundred and eighty
four others. Now, McVeigh did say that he had not
known that there was a daycare center on the second floor,
that he might have chosen a different target if he'd

(01:30:12):
ha known about that, But Terry Nichols said that both
he and McVeigh knew that there was a daycare center
there in the building, and they didn't care. In fact,
they felt that that would be more effective. So, and
this is a man that alex Change continually defends. Now
when he was asked about killing people, particularly killing the

(01:30:33):
children later Timothy, they.

Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
Used this.

Speaker 4 (01:30:39):
Analogy. Is it metaphor? I don't know. Think about the
people as if they were stormtroopers in Star Wars. They
may be individually innocent, but they're guilty because they work
for the evil Empire. Has everyone seen Clark's Yeah, Clarks
the same joke, A long bit about how in Jedi

(01:31:03):
there would be independent contractors working on the death stops,
and I have a conversation about whether the terrorist organization
would be ethical or not to kill these people, and
they come to the conclusion that a contractor chooses jobs
with his heart, not with his wallet, and so they
would be they would be justified in killing these people.

(01:31:26):
Clark's came out in nineteen ninety four. Did Clarks influence
the ideology of the Oklahoma City Bomber? Because if he did,
I have to say that I suspect that he's probably
misunderstood the message of the film. I love Clark's I

(01:31:47):
like Maurets, I like Clark's Too, Chase, an Amy, Dogma, Jane,
Silent Bob, Strike Back, Clark's animated series. I like Tusk,
I like Red State, I like Hollywood Babylon, I like
Jane and Silent Bob get Old. I like the James
Sign Bob comics. I've never wanted to blow up a crash,

(01:32:07):
so I think it's unfair to blame Kevin Smith. Now
what's interesting, right, okay, is that later he found a
copy of a book called Unintended Consequences, which is a
similar theme book about a war against the government after
people's guns are taken off of them, but it's less
over the top than the Turner Diaries. And he actually

(01:32:28):
said that you wish he'd read that book instead, because
of what he would have done was carried out a
campaign of individual assassinations instead of bombing but he decided
the message would be more powerful if lots of people
were killed. Now, his criteria for the attack site was

(01:32:49):
that it should hold at least two of the three
federal law enforcement agencies, the ATF, the FBI, and the DEA,
and all three of those when the Alfred Murrah Building.
So he also considered types of Missouri, Arizona, Texas, and Arkansas.
But he said that he wanted to minimize non governmental casualties.

(01:33:12):
So he decided the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, which
is it basically had fourteen federal agencies. He had the DA,
the ATF, the Social Security Administration, recruiting officers for the army,
and recruiting officers for the Marine Corps. And he also
chose it because he expected the glass front to shatter

(01:33:35):
and to look good essentially. And he also he says
that he thought because of the shape of it that
other buildings would be protected. I don't know he blew
up a crash to give a foot what he says
about that. To be quite honest, he's foregone any sympathy obviously.

Speaker 3 (01:33:56):
I think, yeah, just to kind of come in that Neil,
like I think, like looking at the real consequences from
the book is really sobering. Like, I know, we've kind
of been laughing as we're kind of picking it apart,
and I think you have to laugh at it because
it is so ludicrous. But then also on the flip
side is like this book is actually a dangerous piece

(01:34:21):
of kind of propaganda, and we actually see like the
real consequences of how it's dehumanized and kind of politicized
people that they're willing to blow up crushes as some
part of some kind of revolutionary kind of act. So yeah,

(01:34:42):
it just really kind of heightens how dangerous and that
this book is a piece of propaganda.

Speaker 4 (01:34:49):
Now you may have noticed the date April nineteen. It
is nineteen ninety five. He said that it was to
coincide with the second aniversary of the Waycoa Siege also
there and twenty aniversary of the Battles of Lexington and
Concord during the American Revolution. But it also happened on
the day or the planned execution date of Richard Snell,

(01:35:11):
who's the white supremacist from the Covenant of the Sword
in the Arm of the Lord. He was basically due
to be executed on that day and prior to his execution,
Snell predicted that a bombing would take place on the
day of his execution. How he knew this, people don't know.
So Also, Snell had made threats to blow up the

(01:35:37):
very same building as revenge for the Irs raiding his home.
So whether they were connected is debate, but could well be.
Now Twuthan McVeigh was caught in a traffic stop fleeing
the bombing with because his car had no license plate.
Now he had a gun on him and yeah, I

(01:36:01):
think he had a T shirt on that said sick
temperess like death to tyrants basically. And anyway, there is
a very good reason why he was caught because you're thinking,
you know, he's killed all these people, why don't you
shoot the policeman. Do you know why he didn't shoot
the policeman?

Speaker 5 (01:36:21):
I do, Yeah, I know this one because he well
allegedly that he went and saw William Cooper, yes, and
was speaking to him about stuff, and they talked about
what would you do if you got like stopped by
the car? Yeah, And Timothy McVay said, I'll shoot them,

(01:36:42):
and Bill Cooper was like, no, that's like the worst
thing to do. Don't ever like just shoot the policeman, like.

Speaker 4 (01:36:48):
Yeah, just take the ticket and go.

Speaker 5 (01:36:50):
Basically, yeah, yeah, so he influenced him not to actually
shoot someone. Absolutely ironically, Bill Cooper then goes and shoots
fucking policeman.

Speaker 1 (01:37:03):
In his own death.

Speaker 4 (01:37:05):
And for people that don't know, Bill Cooper wrote, Behold
a Pale Horse, which has contains the protocols of the
Elders of Zion silent weapons for Quiet Wars, and what's
the other fucking one that's in it, the Report for
My Mountain, Like, all three of which are fake documents,

(01:37:26):
but all three of which have heavily, heavily influenced conspiracy
culture ever since. Basically, now do you know Alex Jones
gets around the idea that to me think mc veigh
has continually confessed to the bombing mind control because he
claimed he claimed to have had a tracking chip implanted

(01:37:50):
into his buttocks. Yeah, whether he did or not, it's
difficult to know, basically, but yeah, he also.

Speaker 3 (01:38:02):
Was that before or after he was arrested.

Speaker 4 (01:38:05):
Oh, this is when he was in the army. So
he's previously in the arm Oh okay, yeah, okay, basically, so.

Speaker 3 (01:38:10):
Pretty paranoid guy, oh very much so.

Speaker 4 (01:38:13):
Yeah, he wrote a one thousand, two hundred word essay
from prison, and in this he claimed that the bombing
was morally equivalent to US military actions against Iraq and
other foreign countries, which it isn't so. And on April
the twenty six, two thousand and one, McVeigh wrote a

(01:38:34):
letter to Fox News. I explained herein where I why
I bombed the Mura Federal Building in Oklahoma City, and
it explicitly laid out his reasons for the attack. He
read the novel Unintended Consequences in nineteen ninety six after
he'd been arrested and said basically he wished he'd read
it earlier because he he wouldn't have blown up the building.

(01:38:58):
He had just gone on a campaign of asassination instead.
So it's yeah, it's grim.

Speaker 3 (01:39:05):
Easily swayed kind of guy.

Speaker 4 (01:39:06):
Certainly seems that way. Like, yeah, they very much say so. Anyway,
back to the exciting tales of Earl Turner. So if
you remember, they're plotting to blow up the FBI building
in the way that Timothy McVeigh would go on to
and two of the organization go missing, presumably arrested, but

(01:39:31):
they decide to go ahead with the bombing anyway, but
they worry that the original plan will only kill hundreds
and not necessarily damage the building or the computer system enough.
So what we finally decided is to attempt to get
our bomb directly into the first level basement, which also
has a freight entrance on Tenth Street next to the
main freight entrance. If we designate to our bomb in

(01:39:54):
the basement underneath the courtyard, the confinement will make it
substantially more effective. It will almost certainly collapse basement flow
into the sub basement, burying the computers. Furthermore, it will
destroy most, if not all, the communications and paraquin for
the building, since those are in the basement levels. The
big unknown is whether it will do enough structural damage
to the building to make it uninhabitable for an extended period.

(01:40:17):
So yeah, class act basically, So we're now on to
chapter six and Chapter six starts October thirteenth, nineteen ninety one,
which they don't mention, but is two days before as
ugly as they want to be by ugly Kid Joe
redefines rock and roll, and it was really well welcome,

(01:40:40):
because again I don't know if people remember that this
was an era when in the UK Brian Adams single
Everything I Do from the Robinhood Prince of These soundtrack,
but on this point spent fourteen weeks at the top
of the singles charts. It is unclear if that influenced
the organization, but it would be almost impossible for it

(01:41:01):
not to have been quite a major factor somehow.

Speaker 5 (01:41:04):
It was definitely the soundtrack to it.

Speaker 4 (01:41:07):
Rocking up from playing there. At nine fifteen yesterday morning,
our bomb went off in the FBI's national Headquarters building.
Our worries about the relatively small size of the bomb
were unfoundered. Our thank guard. The damage is immense. We
have certainly disrupted a major portion of the FBI's headquarters
operations for at least the next several weeks, and it

(01:41:28):
looks like we've also achieved our goal of wrecking their
new computer complex. So how they do it is they
follow and steal a delivery a delivery truck. They killed
the black driver, obviously, and they fill it with fertilizer
and dynamite. Overturned trucks and automobiles smashed off his furniture
and building. Rubble was strewn wildly about, and so were

(01:41:49):
the bodies of shockingly large numbers of victims over everything,
hung the pool of black smoke, burning our eyes and lungs,
and reducing the bright morning to semi darkness. So Henry
calls the Washington Post and says, three weeks ago, you
and yours killed Carl Hodges in Chicago, and we're now

(01:42:12):
settling the scores with your pals in the political police.
Soon we'll settle the score with you and all other traitors.
White America shall live. And in case everyone had forgotten,
Carl Hodges had been involved in the killing of three policemen,
they also killed two other people after that, So it's

(01:42:33):
not really settling the score, is it. So you know,
they were concerned that the bomb wasn't going to kill
enough people. It killed over seven hundred people. And the
organization concludes that in order to smash the system and
hear them out, what are they're going to have to

(01:42:55):
do is start killing innocent people, just a few innocent people,
thousands of innocent people. And they rationalize that they've been
forced into this position by Jewish liberal democratic equalitarian plagues
and feminine infantile liberals. And they explained that the concept

(01:43:16):
of racers living together in harmony is an alien oriental idea.
And now I've got no fucking clue what that means either.
But remember, like just a few chapters earlier, when they
were like, we can't just kill people willy nilly, And
now they've decided that the best a genocides. Yeah, yeah,
they've decided that they could to kill thousands and thousands

(01:43:39):
of innocent people. Even those who do not consciously accept
the liberal doctrines have been corrupted by them. Decade after decade,
the race problem in America has become worse. But the
majority of those who wanted a solution, who wanted to
preserve a white America, were never able to screw up
the courage to look to the obvious solution in their face,

(01:44:02):
mass murder. That's the obvious solution, mass murder of not
only non whites, but also of innocent people for reasons
it continues. All the liberals and the Jews had to
do was begin screeching about inhumanity or injustice or genocide,
and most of our people, who had been beating around
the edges of the solution, which I'll remind you is

(01:44:24):
mass murder, took to their heels like frightened rabbits because
there was never a way to solve the race problem
which would be fair for everybody, or which everyone concerned
could be politely persuaded into accepting without any fuss or unpleasantness.
They kept trying to evade it, hoping that it would
go away by itself. And the same has been true

(01:44:45):
of the Jewish problem, and the immigration problem, and the
overpopulation problem, and the eugenics problem and a thousand related problems.
Now two things, this is uncomfortably close to the rhetoric
of Reform UK and gb news right. And also they

(01:45:06):
have preserved the white race. They're all fucking white. The
terror organization is white, right. And when there's say, like
to solve the problem, there would never be a solution
that was that was satisfactory to everybody. They mean them,
and the reason that they're not satisfied is because they
don't want black people to exist like. They then decide

(01:45:31):
to complain about the media, and it is already terribly
clear that the controlled media intend to convince the public
that what we are doing is terrible. They're deliberately emphasizing
the suffering we have caused by interspersing gory close ups
of the victims with tearful interviews with their relatives. They're
killing in some people have just killed seven hundred people,

(01:45:53):
Like okay, like.

Speaker 3 (01:45:54):
That damn liberal media.

Speaker 4 (01:45:56):
Now at this point, one or both of you might
start to it quite cross. They complained. They complain that
the media was always sympathetic to other terrorist organizations like
the Black Panthers because they were both black and Marxists.

(01:46:18):
And I'd like to point out that the media were
never sympathetic to the Black Panthers, certainly not because they
were black or Marxists. Now, he goes on.

Speaker 3 (01:46:30):
That's so far from any kind of historical truth or reality.

Speaker 4 (01:46:36):
That that might be a themes the book continue.

Speaker 3 (01:46:41):
Truly through the looking glass of ideology.

Speaker 4 (01:46:44):
Well, he explains his complaints about how the media treated
the Black Panthers like heroes and when it belonged to
the Communist Party, helped plan a court room shootout and
even supplied the shotgun for which are Judge was murdered.
The press formed a cheering section at her trial and

(01:47:04):
tried to make a folk hero out of her. Now
this is a reference to Angela Davis like who was
put on the FBI's ten most wanted list and called
a terrorist by Nixon in the media, right, Okay, what
happened was the reason that there was a cheering section
at a trial, and it wasn't from the media. It

(01:47:25):
was because she was found not guilty. There was this
these brothers caulled the soul, the Dad brothers, and they
were accused of killing a prison guard. And two people
who she was friends with stole the shotgun that she'd
or I forget whether she'd bought it for them or
whether it's her shotgun, but they stole her shotgun and
used it to try and break these people out of jail.

(01:47:47):
But she wasn't involved in any way. And John Lennon
actually wrote a song about her called Angela. But that's
that's what they're referring to then, and as you quite
rightly said, it's a complete through the looking glass in
regards to the reality of the situation. Now they start
to stockpile bombs, grenades, land mines and ammo, and Catherine

(01:48:11):
starts to complain that she doesn't she wants to be
involved in all of this because basically they've just had
her at home cooking and cleaning because she's a woman. Now,
we were all under a bit of tension following the
big bombing, and Katherine came across a bit shrill, almost

(01:48:31):
like a woman's liver. A note to the reader. Woman's
live was a form of mass psychosis which broke out
during the last three decades of the Old Era. Women
affected by it denied their femininity and insisted that they
were people, not women. This aberration was promoted and encouraged
by the system as a means of divining our race

(01:48:53):
against itself. Like that insane, But it's also the it's
the chad wives attitude. Yeah, you know, that's what they want,
that women are basically objects and you know things that
you own. Now, this next bit is quite telling because

(01:49:13):
Turner writes that there is a potential problem that might
be happening in the house. We have not flaunted our relationship,
but it is not likely that either Henry or George
has failed to guess by now that Katherine and I
are lovers. This creates a rather awkward situation for all
of us. Completely, aside from the fact that Henry and

(01:49:35):
George are both healthy males and Katherine is the only
female among us, is the problem of organization or discipline. Now,
let's unpack that two things. One he's saying that basically
women are simply sexual objects for men. And two and
I don't know whether I've misread that, but it seems
to be saying that Henry and George might very well
rape Catherine because they are healthy men. That's how he

(01:50:03):
comes across to me, basically, and they might even do
it just out of jealousy that he's in a relationship
with her, which is yeah, it's it's crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:50:15):
I don't know where this is going.

Speaker 4 (01:50:17):
Oh oh, it goes some places. It goes some some bizarre, stupid,
and ultimately quite ironic places, but you know, we'll get there.
Chapter seven. Our unit has carried out three missions in
the last six days. Altogether, the organization is held responsible
for more than two hundred separate incidents in different parts

(01:50:39):
of the country, according to news reports. We are really
into the thick of the gorilla war. Now that's ironic
because in the real world it's responsible for at least
two hundred murders. So Turner decides to throw a grenade
and an anti tank bomb through the window of the
Washington Post press room. But they don't actually really disrupt

(01:50:59):
the paper that much, so they decided to kill an
editorial writer. After looking over the newspaper. We settled on
the editorial page editor who had written a particularly vicious
editorial against us. His words dripped with talmudic hatred.

Speaker 3 (01:51:15):
Racist, never letting it go.

Speaker 4 (01:51:24):
Oh, no, racists like us, he said, deserved no consideration
for the police or any decent citizen. We should be
shot down on site like mad dogs, which is quite
a contrast with his usual solicitude for black rapists and
murderers and his tirerades against police brutality and overreaction. And

(01:51:45):
they also destroy a TV transmitter, and they they complained
that the media is biased against them, and they use
a specific person as an example of someone that was
persecuted by the media. Would you like to take a
guess at this spectacularly bad example. It's somebody that you

(01:52:07):
both know, not personally, and shall we say he's a
bit of a hero to some on the far right.
We're gonna have to invoke Godwin's law. I'm afraid it's Hitler.

Speaker 3 (01:52:19):
Oh of course, Okay, Earl says. What I'm trying to
finger right, loads of people from.

Speaker 4 (01:52:27):
The sixties, something sensible, weren't you? Yeah, not fucking ridiculous?
Who has been persecuted by the media. Oh, that fucking Hitler.
He had a high of a time with media, so
Earl says in the Turner Diaries, what's happening now is

(01:52:48):
reminiscent of the media campaign against Hitler and the Germans
back in the nineteen forties. No stories about Hitler flying
into rages and chewing carpets, phony German plans for the
invasion of America, babies being skinned alive to make lampshades
and then boiled down into soap, girls kidnapped and sent
to Nazi stud farms. The Jews convinced the American people

(01:53:12):
that these stories were true, and the result was World
War II, with millions of the best of our race
butchered by us and all of butchered by ours, and
all of Eastern and Central Europe turned into a huge
Communist prison camp.

Speaker 3 (01:53:28):
Now, let's uh, let's unpacked a lot of historical.

Speaker 4 (01:53:35):
There isn't there, Like, it wasn't stories of persecution of
the Jews that started World War II. Let's just start
with that. That's not how it happened at all. Was
it like what he's referring to there is the concept
of this was like it was actoutely Russian propaganda, the
idea that they were making lampshades and furniture and soap

(01:53:56):
out of Jews. I don't think it was true, certainly,
not any mass scale, but there was plenty of atrocities
against the Jews. But this all again came out in
the latter part of the war. But this idea about
how I love this bit at the beginning, how they
the media campaign against Hitler, against Hitler by suggesting that

(01:54:21):
he flew into rages. Yeah, because when I think of
all the terrible things that that Hitler's done, like that,
that's what I think of, Like, oh, he had a
right temper on him.

Speaker 3 (01:54:34):
He's always losing his ragget.

Speaker 4 (01:54:37):
And the next bit flying into rages and chewing carpets.
Is he suggesting that? Is he suggesting that it was
a bocat? Is that really what he's saying. I don't know,
But anyway, stud Farms refers to a concept called joy division.

(01:54:58):
Joy division brothels. Actually there were there were sort of
labn's around. The living space was increased in order to
do that. They were having a lot of sex to
try and create a lot of babies. But the concept
of the joy division actually came from fictional book called
The House of Dolls. Now, a huge amount of rape,

(01:55:22):
no doubt occurred, but there's no real evidence of forced prostitution. Also,
the USA was it war because of the Japanese attack
on Pearl Harbor. Like this idea of other Nazis to
invade Americans. This is again, it's just bizarre, a historical bullshit.

Speaker 3 (01:55:43):
It's just the fascist kind of trying to retell the
story of World War Two and trying to get around
the patriots. This is fought against Nazis to.

Speaker 4 (01:55:53):
Try about facts. It's about feelings. But ironically, you know
what's stupid about this is when this has been put
out and stuff. Right, then this is one of the
reasons why sort of anti Semitism didn't sort of pick
up as early as it might have done in a
lot of places because the Holocaust, specifically because there were
people alive that they've been in camps. Mm hmm, right,

(01:56:16):
you know, a lot a lot of people were like, no,
this actually fucking happened, Like do you know what I mean? So, like,
it's it's bizarre that they would put out such ahistorical ship.

Speaker 5 (01:56:25):
Basically, it's not really that bizarre for far right. Holocaust
or people to yah history revision is pretty much their
things there.

Speaker 4 (01:56:37):
Yes, is there bread and butter? Isn't it really just yeah,
But it's just amazing that they could get away with it.
So it's so close to the actual time because it's
just like, you know, there's people there will have vivid
memories of the reality of it. So anyway, Turner has
to execute a traitor. Harry Powell was Unit five's leader.
Last week when Washington field command. That's the first fucking

(01:57:00):
time that the manasion Washington feel command. Like, I couldn't
believe it. It's like, that's what it means. Why do
you mention that earlier? Like and why did he say
Washington feel command? He said, WFC never mind. It gave
his unit the assignment of assassinating two of the most
obnoxious and outspoken advocates of racial mixing in the area,

(01:57:22):
a priest and a rabbi. He tried to get them
as they walked into a bar. The priests of the
rabbi were co authors of a widely publicized petition to
Congress requesting special tax advantages for racially mixed marriage married couples.
Powell refused the assignment. He sent a message back to WFC,

(01:57:43):
saying that he was opposed to the further use of
violence and that his unit would not participate in any
acts of terrorism. His basic complaint was that all our
acts of terror against the system were only making things
work by provoking provoking the system into taking more and
more oppressive measures. Well, of course, we all understood that,
or at least I thought we all understood it. Apparently

(01:58:06):
Powell didn't. That is, he didn't understand that one of
the major purposes of political terror, always and everywhere is
to force the authorities to take reprisals and to become
more repressive, thus alienating a portion of the population and
generating sympathy for the terrorists. And the other purpose is
to create unrest by destroying the population's sense of security

(01:58:27):
and their belief in the invincibility of the government. Someone
asked him whether he'd forgotten what the organization has repeated
over and over, namely that our struggle is to secure
the future of our race. Now, what does that remind
you of? David Lane in the fourteen Words, Yeah, David Lane,

(01:58:48):
where American domestic terrorists, white separatists, Neo Nazi convicted felon
who was a former clansman who later joined the neo
Nazi Christian identity group Areaan Nation, and he was also
a member of the terrorist organization The Order. And he
was convicted and sentenced to one hundred and ninety years
in prison for racketeering, conspiracy, and the violation of the

(01:59:08):
civil rights of Alan Berg, a Jewish radio talk show
host who prosecutors claim was murdered by a member of
the group via drive by shooting with Lane acting as
the driver. Though they didn't actually get a conviction for
the murder, but they did get him on reco essentially.
And he coined the fourteen words in.

Speaker 5 (01:59:26):
That movie in the Order, and you see him like
reading the book and reading it to his kid like
for a fit time stories.

Speaker 4 (01:59:33):
Hmm, crazy, yeah, insane. Like the primary slogan of the
fourteen Words is we must secure the existence of our
people and a future for white children. And the secondary
slogan is because the beauty of the white Arian woman
must not perish from the earth. And Lane also wrote
the eighty eight Precepts, and this is a treatise on

(01:59:56):
his views on race, politics and philosophy. In eighty eight
is basically Oh Hitler, Kyle Hitler. Yeah, yeah, quite, it's
not a reference. It's a reference to the actual Hitler,
not to the Kanye west Side. So but Lane viewed
these as the principles behind that of the two fourteen

(02:00:16):
words slogan. And you know what Lane also came up with.
He came up with the idea that immigration is white genocide.
So this concept that basically forced immigration is is white genocide.
There is akin to white genocide. The Great Replacement there
was Reynard Camu, but the concept of calling immigration white

(02:00:39):
genocide came from David Lane. So if anyone ever uses
the phrase white genocide, they're using hardcore Nazi propaganda from
a Nazi that was influenced by the Turner Diaries. And
a huge amount of people used the concept of white genocide.
It's almost interchangeable with the Great Replacements, both both of

(02:01:01):
the Nazi concepts obviously, but that specifically is connected.

Speaker 3 (02:01:07):
I mean even Donald Trump was amplifying the ideas of
white genocide in South Africa and stuff.

Speaker 4 (02:01:13):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, very much so, which is also
again not true, Like basically it's it's ridiculous. So Turner
executes the mutineer. There was one way to deal with
such a situation. The eight male members present present Drew Straws,
and three of us, including me, ended up on the

(02:01:33):
execution squad. When Power realized that he was going to
be killed, he tried to make a break. We tied
his hands and feet, and then we had to gag
him when he began shouting. We drove him to a
wooded area off the highway about ten miles south of Washington,
shot him and buried him killing. Very descriptive. Yeah, absolutely,

(02:02:01):
f

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