January 21, 2025 • 54 mins
In this episode of Soul CPR, we explore the profound connection between trust and betrayal and how they influence every aspect of our lives, including our workplaces. Can trust truly exist without the risk of betrayal? It’s as if they are two sides of the same coin. Join Ann and Yasemin for a conversation about the emotional layers and how our experiences with trust and betrayal shape our sense of self, our relationships, and impact team dynamics and overall workplace culture. Learn the essential ingredients of trust for personal relationships, teams, and leadership.
#SoulCPR #trust #trustissues #betrayal #workplacedynamics #healingjourney #emotionalresilience #workplaceculture #personalgrowth #leadership #boundaries
Connect with Dr. Gokalp
https://www.thesupremeperformance.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/inspireperformance/
#SoulCPR #trust #trustissues #betrayal #workplacedynamics #healingjourney #emotionalresilience #workplaceculture #personalgrowth #leadership #boundaries
Connect with Dr. Gokalp
https://www.thesupremeperformance.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/inspireperformance/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Are you ready to untangle from your past, recover from
heartbreak and revive your life? This is Soul CPR with
your host and Papa Yode. We've all had soul crushing
experiences and lost ourselves in our pain, but there is
a way out. On this podcast, Amazon best selling author,
award winning life coach and advice columnist and Papa Yode
(00:27):
helps us navigate the path from heartbreak to healing. So
now please welcome the host of Soul CPR and Papa Yode.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hello, and thank you for tuning in today. I'm curious
what is your relationship with trust? Is it something that's
been easy or difficult, tentative or broken even? How would
you label or describe it? And have you ever experienced betrayal?
(01:06):
If so, how has that impacted your ability or willingness
to trust in general? While you think about your personal
relationship with trust and whether a betrayal experience may have
any influence on it, I'd like to introduce you to
my special guest today, Doctor Yasmin Gokhalp is an expert
(01:31):
in leadership development and inclusive culture building with a PhD
in Performance psychology, a master's in organizational and industrial psychology
and a Lean SI Sigma Master black belt.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
She blends performance.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Psychology with process improvement. She has fifteen years of HR experience,
eight years of professional coaching expertise, and is an ICF
mentor coach. Doctor yasmin As, she's known to all who
know and love her, is also is also launching an
i SEEF accredited life coaching school to train coaches who
(02:08):
are experts in leadership performance enhancement across high stakes fields.
And when I say high stakes fields, she is currently
working with the United States Navy to enhance leadership capabilities
as well as with the Internal Revenue Service to foster
organizational inclusivity. So, as you can hear, she's highly educated
(02:34):
and accomplished, but I also happen to know her as
a pretty phenomenal human being. I am proud and blessed
to call her my friend, doctor yasmin Or. Yesman, I'm
probably just gonna call you Welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Thank you so much. Thank you. Hearing from your mouth,
I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Well, of course, I am so delighted that you are
here today.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
This is a hot topic.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
That we're going to talk about in my world with
my clients, with my support groups. And we're going to
get to that shortly, but first I really want everyone
to hear how we know one another. So when you
think back to twenty fifteen, it's already been ten years, right,
we at our Professional Coach Certification training school, right, And
(03:33):
actually Gracey McDonald was with us as well, who's been
on the show with us. She's my co author of
the Gift of Shift. And actually the three of us
just sort of gravitated into one another and we've all
collaborated in different ways since. But what's important about that,
I believe is that I often talk to my clients
(03:54):
about who they hang out with and about finding people
who inspire and help elevate them and just based on
shared values and having the ability then to communicate and
share ideas. And it's just by sharing time, right. I
(04:16):
think that's something that three of us all did and
still do.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Absolutely absolutely me have a lot of fun and mirror together, right,
And you're very like minded since day one. I don't
know the universe put us together, but did a great job.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I'm grateful. I'm very grateful too.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
And something else that I would say that grabbed my
attention about you and pulled me in. Was not just
your commitment to excellence that really stood out when we
were going through this intensive training, which was close to
a year long for all of us. I mean, we
chose a really intensive coach training program, and I'm so
(04:59):
glad that we did because I think it made us
the professionals that we are today in that field.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
But it was also I.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Learned that you were a hard working single boy mom,
which I had also been at one time in my life.
And I also learned that you'd been in an Olympic athlete.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Not Olympic level, but I run in twenty fourteen European Championship.
It was a track and field, you know events, and
all my life I'm in I was in athletics, in
track and field, in basketball. You know. You said dedication
(05:45):
for performance excellence. I think that was something that was
built from the you know, my secondary school years, elementary
school years started with sports, you know, and I'm I'm
grateful that I had experience. I had that experience because
you said, well, who you hang out with shapes your life,
(06:08):
and I was around with high performer athletes. When I
was growing up, and then you powerful ladies leader in life, right,
So what a blessing choices makes a great difference of
you live your life, the quality of your life.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Another thing that we had in common is your country
of origin is Turkey, and I had a country of
origin is Greece. Yet his family on his father's side
were Greeks from Turkey, so we found some commonalities there.
And I finally got to visit your beautiful homeland and
(06:50):
I just I fell in love with it. And anyway,
we've had more and more to share in common throughout
the years, and I have just loved that.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Anyway, we are here together today.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Because of a LinkedIn post that you made that grabbed
my attention, and in this post you had conducducted a
development a leadership development session with the United States Navy,
as I was talking about before, where you had a
very insightful discussion on this topic trust and betrayal, and
(07:26):
you said something to the effect of understanding how to
build trust requires a deep understanding of betrayal and the
profound way it shapes us as leaders. And when the
conversations turn to trust, it inevitably leads to discussions about
betrayal and that post yasmin is when I reached out
(07:50):
and asked if you could please come onto the show
and talk about these concepts because often in coaching sessions
and of course in support groups for separation and divorce,
these topics are quite common and hot. As I said,
because as you can imagine, when people share experiences of
(08:11):
betrayal and of course broken trust in their intimate relationships,
there's a lot of trauma behind all of that, and
then they want to learn about So I'm curious. I'm
very curious about this topic. Coming from your perspective and
your leadership and your training, how does this subject play
(08:34):
a crucial role in leadership development training for such high
stakes groups and high performance organizations like the United States Navy.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Oh, it plays a huge role. There is no high
performance in a team environment if you do not trust
one another. And I think high performance environments like in Navy.
Right when I say Navy, not all navyes warfighters or
different different levels, different groups that supports the warfighters. But
(09:12):
I want to give an example from a warfighter perspective.
I think it's easier for everyone to understand. Let's say
you and I we are in a you know, a
vulnerable area and you're trying to go somewhere. Right, If
I touch my back to yours and if I trust
that you are watching my back and I'm watching your front, right,
(09:34):
then together between our preperapheral vision, we have a three
sixty view. It's less vulnerable and you're more complete together
versus you try to take care of your front and
back all at the same time, you're more vulnerable. So
I think, you know, organizations like Navy, they do understand
(09:58):
trust is extreme important to build high performance teams right
in organizations. In corporate environments, though people are more individual individualistic,
have more individualistic approach to trusts. You know me first
than us versus it's us, you know. But the funny
(10:25):
thing is, you know me, I don't usually post on
social media at all. A day before, you know, we
had that trust section, I was having panic attacks because
you know, who am I to talk about trust while
I'm having hard time trusting people, you know, and betrayal
(10:50):
does that to you, right, So I had this thing
and I couldn't sleep that night. And the reason why
I post that was my Oh my god, this section
is over. I'm so glad that it's over. And you know,
also it was an emotional experience because I'm not alone
(11:10):
in this, I know right whenever I say that, And
this is not the first time that we were teaching
that subject so far, we had different cohorts I think
six seven already. Every time this subject is up, first
thing that they think about is betrayal. It's like, you know,
(11:32):
and someone says that, you know, and you're doing this, this,
this amazingly, you know a million things, but this one
thing we need to work on. All you think of that,
you know, whatever you need to work on. It's the
same thing with trust. As soon as you say trust,
they're like, oh, just like me, right, So they remember
(11:54):
their betrayal stories. So as you know, we coached as coaches,
we catch that energy. So I started asking betrayal stories
first before we start digging into trust.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
So that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
That makes a lot of sense because and that's why
at the top of the show I asked people to
think about their relationship with trust and if they'd ever
experienced betrayal and if that had any fluence, any influence
at all on how they think of trust. It's interesting
that you had said in that post that inevitably the
(12:39):
discussion would go to betrayal, so so much so that
you start leading this topic of trust with betrayal and
typing into that. I think we all know what betrayal is,
and it is considered one of the most hurtful human
(12:59):
emotions experiences. It is trauma. I think some people don't
know that it is considered trauma, but it is.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
What would you.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Say, from a psychologist standpoint, are some of the layers
of that trauma or the layers of betrayal if you will.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
It is trauma, and after betrayal that comes the grief.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
I want to share a lot of things about this,
but I want to start with this number one thing.
You know, if you lose someone, if there's a death
in your family, someone you lose, you know, someone you
love that you lost, it's painful. You know that it's painful.
People around you will know that it's painful, and they
(13:54):
will do their absolute best to make sure that you
return back to yourself.
Speaker 5 (13:59):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Yeah, with betrayal, it's not like that because it's shame
inducing and you feel alone in the journey. So you're
betrayed and now you're alone. It's like double the trauma
and people have a hard time understanding this, but I'm
going to share from the experience. I feel like it
(14:22):
is harder to recover from betrayal because of that, because
you don't share it with somebody. You know, what are
your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I think it grief is part of it, and I
think it looks and sounds a lot like grief some
as stages that people will go through, the emotional impact
is very different and the way people experience the emotional
impact is very different. And I think you described it beautifully.
And there's a very isolating element a betrayal and the
(15:05):
fact that so many people do minimize it, not even
recognizing it as trauma. There it betrayal trauma is a
real thing, and that's that's a real thing, right And
I mean that's that's a term in psychology, and there's
betrayed betrayal, trauma, recovery and there is a path to
(15:26):
healing and I want people and listeners to understand that.
And without that healing, then trust cannot ever really be
rebuilt and to come back will be a you know,
irreparable forever, which is going to impact life and we'll
talk more about that later, but thank you for sharing that,
because I think people need to have that validated for them,
(15:49):
that how betrayal is. And then to compare that to that, uh,
the grief of death, I think is very important, just
even wreckgnizing that the person who betrayed you is someone
who is still around somehow and that you might have
(16:10):
to face that that whether you hold on to the
hope that they may try to repair the relationship with you,
can create some ongoing trauma, whereas in death there is
eventually an easier place of acceptance.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Right absolutely, you know reality absolutely, and I want to
add you know, yes, all that is going on, and
on top of that, you have these feelings of well,
I am the one that he didn't want ry what
(16:53):
is wrong with me? You know? Comparisons and feeling that
foster imposter syndrome? And do you think that you only
have that in your personal life? You carry it around
everywhere you go, like am I enough? Or you know?
What is what is wrong with me? Why am I?
(17:16):
What did I do wrong? All those years that I
invested my life my heart? Why did I do it
to myself? It's just self beating and self damaging. If
you don't control it. Well, right, you're been. You didn't
(17:36):
get to help, you need you deserve. Right, then that
is an additional you know, load that you carry around
all your life.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Right, and then it self betrayal as you're describing that,
that self imported punishment of that blame game, and I
what was wrong with me?
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Why was I not yet enough?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
It is?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
It is so punishing, and we create suffering, ongoing suffering.
It is time for our first break. I know there's
so much more we could say, and we are going
to say a lot more on this subject. So yas man, hay,
tight listeners, don't go far.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
We'll be back with more. Sel CYPR.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
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Speaker 2 (20:42):
Welcome back everyone, Thank you for joining me today.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I'm in Papillote.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I'm here with my special guest and friend, doctor Yasmin
go Kelp, and we are talking about trust and betrayal,
and we were just wrapping up a little bit about betrayal.
I'm sure it's going to be a running theme through
out today. I do want to say that the experience
of betrayal trauma will be different for everyone, and but
(21:08):
healing is possible, piece is possible, and trust can be rebuilt.
But we will talk more about that as we go on.
What exactly is trust though, yes, men, when we talk about.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Trust so in I think in every environment it's a
little different, depending on you know, the social environment that
you're in, organizations or at home. But my favorite description
came from Charles Friedman, and I didn't want to mess
(21:42):
it up. I wrote it here, I'm going to read
it to you. Trust is choosing to make something important
to you vulnerable to the actions of others in a way.
You know, my heart this crystal, very fragile. Here, I'm
giving it to you, and it's open to the actions,
(22:03):
whatever the actions you choose to have to your actions.
You know, will you save it and you know, protect
it it's your life, or will you just crash it
into pieces? You know, it's up to you. I think
that is trust, and it's such a vulnerable act.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah, woll just I was visualizing that, you know, handing
almost this glass heart. You know that could be broken
into pieces. So how do you build trust between two
people so much so that you're willing to hand over
(22:47):
that vulnerable part.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
There are so many factors that goes into it, and
in the trainings that be put together, be go through
that in a two hour section. It's hard to fit
it in in a short period of time. But I
think the most important thing is that you need to
(23:12):
understand the boundaries of people around you, and you need
to be so firm about the boundaries of yourself you
want to hold them and they will respect those boundaries.
And this is reciprocal right. They will hold they will
(23:34):
have their own boundaries and you will respect them, and
they will also keep on to their own boundaries, meaning
that those boundaries are the rules of the game. And
if there are no rules, I think that's the foundation.
There is no trust because I don't know what I'm
(23:54):
doing with you, you know, And if you don't have
any boundaries, and if I accidentally push your boundary, you know,
how would I know that I did because I didn't
know there was one. It built upon that, and research
shows us that trust is built in small actions. It
(24:21):
doesn't require big action, you know, in these little small actions,
you know, you being reliable over and over and over again,
you make decisions with integrity, You're accountable, you're keeping your word,
(24:42):
you're keeping my word, and you don't care other people's
word to me. Right, So if you can consistently practice
these non judgmentally and have the best generous assumptions about me,
thinking that you know, whatever I do, I'm not trying
(25:04):
to do it to betray you. You have the best
and true You believe that I have the best in
trust that I heard for you, and you do that repeatedly.
I think that's how you build trust.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Beautiful.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I want to ask about within a team, but first
because we were just talking about betrayal, and the most
common question that I get from clients and from support
group participants who've experienced betrayal in an intimate partner relationship
is how do you rebuild trust after betrayal? Whether it's
(25:43):
with the same person and probably not, but just how
do you ever? What I hear is how do I
ever trust?
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Again?
Speaker 4 (25:54):
That's very heavy right there, right so, because we said
at the beginning, you just experience the trauma, and you know,
in society it doesn't even recognize that as trauma. And here,
you know, you put a little piece of your soul
on the table. Let's say it's dark chocolate, you know,
(26:16):
and your partner puts a piece of your soul on
the table white chocolate. They merge due to the warmth
of those warm feelings into each other. Right after betrayal,
Try clean up the white chocolate out of your dark chocolate.
It's so messy, right, and it's you're never complete, You're
(26:38):
never you're never the same person. After a betrayal, A
piece of you dies with the betrayed and you have
to rebuild it from scratch. You need to relearn how
to love again, how to trust again, how to put
yourself out there again. It's health. It's not easy. Yeah,
(27:05):
And you know, to build trust, there are three things
needs to happen. First, you have to have someone in
front of you that is trustworthy, right, it makes sense. Second,
the environment is supposed to be available for you to
(27:26):
trust one another. In corporations, we do some, we see some,
you know, terrible corporate culture. It's hard to trust anyone.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
The third thing is the most important thing, your ability
to trust someone. If black thereof tripod is not complete,
so nothing holds up. So if you have hard time
trusting people, do not label it as there are no
people around me that I can trust.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Maybe it's you, you know.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
I know it's me, and that's why I knew. You know,
who am I to teach about trust?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
You know?
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Those who cannot do teach it?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Yeah? I do.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
One thing that that that I do work with people
when they've gone through something with light betrayal and and
it's led to divorce or dissolution of a of a
very important relationship in their life, is I say the
first person that you have to learn to trust again
is yourself, and then that leads to discernment in trusting others,
(28:46):
and that allows you then to do those or allow
those little, small, consistent, reliable actions you were describing before.
You'll know right away, uh, that it's that they're unreliable
or that they're inconsistent in those actions, And you won't
allow yourself to end up in a relationship that was
(29:09):
not trustworthy. You won't get that far down the road.
So it's building that trust within oneself that I find
is paramount to being able to be in those future
trustworthy mutual relationships.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
But having said.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
That, how do you build trust within a team. You've
got all these people coming from these different backgrounds of
different relationships with trust and different experiences with betrayal. Because
I can tell you I wouldn't if I took a
poll of people that I've met, how many if we
ask them to raise their hands, how many of you
(29:51):
have experienced betrayal? I don't know that anyone would not
raise their hand. And I'm not limiting this to intimate partners.
I would say people have been right by family, by
close friendships, by co workers. It's not limited to intimate
partners by any means. So what about in the workplace
(30:14):
within a team?
Speaker 4 (30:16):
So in a way, what you're asking is how do
you turn a group of people into high performance teams?
Because the trust factor is the factor that glues everyone
together to make them them team. Right, So that's the
(30:39):
corporate culture everything you know that try the tripod that
I talk about, you know a few minutes ago. If
the environment is right, right, if you know, just let's
let's look at a family unit, right, if the environment
is right, if the family members, if the you know,
(31:00):
if there are good values that are practiced, not professed,
but practiced right, and there are you know, love cherish
between the members of the family. If you know, if
it's a warm, nice environment for a family to be
(31:23):
everyone in the family. The you know, first reaction is
trust and cooperation. That's how you create trust and corporation.
So it starts with the corporate values, leadership values. Who
am I as a leader? And then you know, well
(31:44):
what am I reflecting to my team? Because they look
up to you? Right, leaders set the tone in any team.
So it starts with the leader and then creating the
right culture. So the the thing is in team environments.
No matter what. If you place a group of individuals
(32:08):
into one group that's a project group, right, a culture
will merge, but it may not be the one that
you want. So it has to be controlled in a
way that it is a trusting, warm, value based culture
(32:28):
that leaders actually understand you know, or dictate that you know,
or practice that every day with their decisions and all,
and the natural reaction is trust and corporation.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
I love that cultures emerge from groups regardless, So pay
attention to how you lead yourself. And then, however, in
a group where there is a designated leader, whether it's
the parent or in a family, or whatever it may be,
(33:02):
or it's the CEO at work or whatever it may be,
the designated leader on a project team, as you say,
paying attention to that because the culture is going to emerge.
It's just what kind of culture will it be?
Speaker 4 (33:19):
May not be what you want right.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
What you want exactly. It is time for our second break.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Don't go far. When we come back, we're going to talk.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
About how this molds us these type of experiences with
trust and betrayal, So don't go far.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
We'll be back with more sol CPR.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
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Speaker 2 (35:41):
Thank you for tuning in today. I have doctor Yasman
here with me today and we were talking about trust
and betrayal. So Yasmin, how do our experiences with trust
and betrayal shape our sense of self and end up
impacting our relationships?
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Work in home, our brain Even from this today experience,
you know, at least for me, you know, because this
is one of the first podcasts that I'm doing, will
not be the same tomorrow. Our brain changes with experience
(36:22):
all the time. We know that even you know a
day learning your your brain changes. We can see it
in the brain scans. An experience like betrayal changes brain
as well in a bad way. Right, and then it
creates these pathways. You know, a little baby, If a
little baby touches on the soow hot stow, the first
(36:45):
reaction is grab the hand back right, and will that
baby touch that? So again no, even the baby knows, right,
So we have this strategy, or we have these pathways
in our head. If it is unconscious, it creates unconscious
behavioral patterns in our brain. So if this happens, I
(37:09):
will do this type of thing.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
If I have hard time trusting others because of the pathways,
because of the experience I had, you know, I don't
want to burnt like that again. I'm having hard time
trusting people. Let's say that if I'm leading a team.
Possible outcomes that we see is micromanaging, not being able
(37:35):
to delegate right, not being able to say no to
the projects because they feel like no one else can
do it. They just have to trust themselves over trusting themselves. Right,
schedules are packed, they don't have time for themselves anymore.
That leads to burnout. So a little experience with betraying. Here,
(38:00):
I am dealing with leadership issues like micromanaging very common,
you know, having hard time trusting team members. Therefore burnout.
They're experiencing burnouts, and you know, they have less generous
assumptions about people around them, so they expect bad rather
(38:25):
than trying to hear the good in any project or
any news. In return, people start leaving the positions surrounding
this person. So it impacts leadership behaviors dramatically, and usually
that's the root cause.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
So I wouldn't assume that's the same in personal life.
So let's say, for a parent, maybe they become overprotective
of their child, or they don't allow their spouse or
their children to certain chores. There they don't trust that
(39:04):
something will be done to a certain standard, or or
some I'm just hearing, I'm translating it into something at home.
But then that can lead to burnout too. But yeah,
so it changed our brain in the subconscious or the
unconscious as we say, and created these behaviors that are
(39:26):
impacting our overall well being, that's what I'm hearing. And
the relationships, our external relationships.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
Okay, because your brain is your brain you carry your
brain and those behavioral patterns from one relationship to another.
So you know, unless you soul resolved those issues in you,
both of the world will be affected your work life
and your personal life as well.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Right right, So all right, so it's start shaping how
we show up in all these other different areas that
we may not have associated.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
All came from betrayal.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Or trust in our inability to trust. So it's very
important that we heal this source wound, this origin wound,
so that we can because what does it cost us
to not be able to trust?
Speaker 3 (40:26):
What does it cost us.
Speaker 4 (40:29):
Well, not being able to reach to your potential as
a work performance or life performance, life fulfillment. You know,
we're wired for connection. Our survival depends on it. You know.
I hear that one of the leading causes of that
in the United States is loneliness. Well, lack of trust.
(40:54):
Not being able to trust leads to lack of connection
with people because no trust, no connection. It's the pre
requisite for any social relationship.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Sure so, so when when I first asked you the
definition of trust, you use the word choice. That we
had it was a choice. So what about when people
get stuck in maybe this seemingly choice to not trust.
Let's say they get stuck in some kind of negativity
about distrust. What would you say about that? Is there
(41:30):
choice involved even though there's a subconscious level.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
Well maybe not at first, right when you find out
that you're betrayed. Not that day is the first day,
you know, leading to your healing journey. You know, let
your emotions. Experience your emotions fully before you move on.
But if if it is excessive, you know, it's been
(41:56):
a year and you're still so angry just like day
one about what's happening, and your life hasn't changed yet,
you know, because you're supposed to. It's supposed to change you.
You know, these things happen so that you know you
reborn from this as a different version of yourself and
(42:20):
start living again. Right, all these anxiety, all these bad feelings,
you know, emotions, Certain hormones leads to these emotions. Cortisol
is you know, one of the leading hormone or negative emotions.
You know, at some point nobody is dripping courtisol to
(42:44):
your ear, your self generate that. You know, it becomes
a choice, So you're choosing to induce courtisol hormone by
your thoughts, which leads to your emotions, which leads to
your behaviors. So after a while, it's a choice to
(43:06):
live like that.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Yeah, So choosing to heal is important, and as we
said before, betrayal trauma, while it's real, there's also a
pathway to healing, and that acceptance stage that we know
happens with grief also can happen with betrayal trauma. And
there's a word that is used that integration comes and
(43:31):
that's that reintegrating and you're talking about connection, how important
it is, and it's reintegrating into relationships. And I think
then that choice to trust and those little I loved
your definition and it's that consistency and those small actions,
the reliability being proven over and over and then if
(43:52):
you can trust yourself to discern if that is happening
or not, then you walk away from a relationship loving that.
So tell me a little bit about the training curriculum
that you've developed, because I hear and I've seen that
you're using it at the government level, at the military level,
and at the corporate level. So tell me a little
bit about the components of it.
Speaker 4 (44:15):
So this curriculum started as a high performance team's leadership curriculum.
But then we adapted with my business partner Lewi Searles,
who's a retired Navy him and I we made it
created this thing that is includes a lot of stories.
(44:38):
Especially those who has extremely technical minds, engineers, scientists, finance professionals,
they learn social behavioral learning. Their social behavioral learning is
a little different than those you know, social butterflies. So
(45:00):
it's this curriculum to their environment. And between Levi and I,
we share a lot of stories. And the whole training,
the whole we have three levels of forty hours training
and many versions of it. The whole experience is when
(45:21):
learners leave the week long training, they feel like they
had a week long conversation with their friends and family
about some serious stuff. So that's the that's the you know,
feeling that we wanted them to have at the end
of this experience, and we wanted to make it memorable moving,
(45:45):
you know. So it's a self awareness journey for leaders
in you know, one on one, two on one, and
three on one level top.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
Level amazing, what kind of feedback are you getting?
Speaker 4 (46:01):
Awesome feedback like we have just I'm going to call
one person several of them. Actually, they said, we've been
in navy for twenty years. By far, hands down, this
is the best experience we had, you know, regular leadership teachings.
(46:22):
It's like trying to put you know, square tub in
a you know, around hole. You know, sometimes it doesn't
you know, it doesn't reach to them. We designed this
just for this particular group, very very very stem oriented
technical minds, so it just lends very beautifully with them.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
I'm glad to hear that it is time for our
third and final break, and when we come back, I'm
going to ask you about a key takeaway for our
audience today and how they can connect with you.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
So don't go far, will be right back with more
sol CPR.
Speaker 5 (47:04):
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Do you wonder if being a caregiver is making you sick?
Are you worried about taking time off work to care
for elderly parents and balance work life and caregiving? Has
caregiving become exhausting and emotionally draining? Are you an aging
adult who wants to remain independent but you're not sure how.
(47:24):
I'm Pamela d Wilson join me for the Carrying Generation
Radio show for caregivers and aging adults Wednesday evenings, six Pacific,
seven Mountain, eighth Central, and nine Eastern, where I answer
these questions and share tips for managing stress, family relationships,
health wellbeing, and more. Podcasts and transcripts of The Carrying
Generation are on my website Pamela Dwilson dot com, plus
(47:47):
my caregiving library. Online caregiver support programs and programs for
corporations interested in supporting working caregivers. Help, hope and support
for caregivers is here on The Carrying Generation and Pamela
d Wilson.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Mike Zorich a three time California state champion in Greco
Roman wrestling at one hundred and fourteen pounds. Mike blind
SI's birth was born in Hartford, Connecticut. He was a
six time national placer, including two seconds, two thirds, and
two fourths. He also won the Veterans Folk Style Wrestling
(48:23):
twice at one hundred and fifty two pounds. In all
these tournaments, he was the only blind competitor. Nancy Zorich
a creative spirit whose talents have taken her to the
stage and into galleries and exhibitions in several states. Her father,
a commercial artist who shared his instruments with his daughter
and helped her fine tune her natural abilities, influenced her
(48:46):
decision to follow in his footsteps. Miss Zorich has enjoyed
a fruitful career doing what she loves. Listen Saturday mornings
at twelve Eastern for the Nancy and Mike Show for
heartwarming stories and interesting talk on the BBM Global Network.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
We have reached the closing segment of our show today, yesman,
and again thank you for joining me. Based on everything
that we've talked about when it comes to trust and betrayal,
if you had one key takeaway for our audience, what
would it be?
Speaker 4 (49:23):
I think moving forward is you know that part is
very important. Right, If you experience something like this, I
know that it is shame inducing and shame cannot survive
if you share it with the right people, the people
who loves you, cares for you no matter what.
Speaker 5 (49:46):
Right.
Speaker 4 (49:48):
And also other things like, we need to change your brain.
You need to change your brain, reverse it in a
way that and we know that sleep, well, you know
eight hours a sleep a day helps with that. You
know apparently that rebuilding happens during sleep, So sleep hygen
(50:11):
is extremely important, eat well, take good care of yourself,
and you know, get help. Coaching is amazing. Right, You're
not mentally ill, You're just going through a humanly hardest
possible one of the hardest possible experiences, So get help.
(50:34):
There's no shame in that, right, It's sometimes hard to
fix that alone.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
That's right. Thank you for that. I love what you said.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
Shame cannot survive if you share it. I read that's
it because it is a very lonely place to be.
Thank you so much for that. So if someone wants
to reach out and contact you, may they have an
organization or a team that they are like, gosh, we
could benefit from learning how to trust one another, room,
(51:11):
change our culture, and how can they reach you.
Speaker 4 (51:15):
I'm available on LinkedIn. If they send me a message
through LinkedIn, I would return to your message right back. Currently,
we're rebuilding our website, so I want to make sure
that we receive all the communication through LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
And speak that out loud in case someone's listening. What
is your LinkedIn address?
Speaker 4 (51:39):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Yeah, it's been go cap or is I think it's
Performance Solutions.
Speaker 4 (51:44):
Performance and now I don't remember it by heart, but
maybe we can place the link under this video in
the show notes.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
For sure your website and your LinkedIn contact with low
notes where people can grab that and reach out to
you if they have an opportunity to tap into your expertise.
I highly recommend it. You're an excellent facilitator.
Speaker 4 (52:08):
I had the.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Privilege of joining one of your college she's a college
professor to guys, are so much more. And I got
thak to one of her graduate level classes that she
teaches at Grand Canyon University. I believe it is and
I was a guest speaker along with Tracy. So anyway,
(52:32):
the multi talented woman here. But I do know how
she facilitates and it's amazing, so firsthand knowledge there. So again,
thank you Yasmin for being here with me today and
sharing with my audience. I greatly appreciate it. Trust and
betrayal again such a hot topic with my people now,
(52:52):
Thank you so much. As this episode of Soul CPR
comes to a close, remember that healing is not a
linear it is a process of profound transformation. If today's
episode resonated with you, then please share it with others
who may need a lifeline of their own. We greatly
appreciate it, subscribe, rate and leave a review to help
(53:15):
us reach more hearts. You can always connect with me
on social media, and if you can't find Yasmin, I'll
help you connect with her as well. I'm on Facebook
at Skyview Coaching and I'm on all the other platforms
at ann Papa Yode. Let me know your thoughts as well,
your stories and the topics that you'd like to explore
(53:37):
more in future episodes. This show is for you and
we're going to make that happen on screen. You can
see my QR code and you can scan that, or
you can find me at Skyviewcoaching dot com. Thank you
for listening. Until next time, May you find strength in
your vulnerability and courage in your journey. Read deeply, love openly,
(53:59):
and live selfward way.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
Good day.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
This has been sole CPR with host and Papa Yode
breathe life back into your spirit with each episode where
she and special guests explore the relationships that hurt us
and discover that healing can only begin with you. Tuesdays
at three pm Eastern on the Bold Brave TV Network
Are you ready to untangle from your past, recover from
heartbreak and revive your life? This is Soul CPR with
your host and Papa Yode. We've all had soul crushing
experiences and lost ourselves in our pain, but there is
a way out. On this podcast, Amazon best selling author,
award winning life coach and advice columnist and Papa Yode
(00:27):
helps us navigate the path from heartbreak to healing. So
now please welcome the host of Soul CPR and Papa Yode.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hello, and thank you for tuning in today. I'm curious
what is your relationship with trust? Is it something that's
been easy or difficult, tentative or broken even? How would
you label or describe it? And have you ever experienced betrayal?
(01:06):
If so, how has that impacted your ability or willingness
to trust in general? While you think about your personal
relationship with trust and whether a betrayal experience may have
any influence on it, I'd like to introduce you to
my special guest today, Doctor Yasmin Gokhalp is an expert
(01:31):
in leadership development and inclusive culture building with a PhD
in Performance psychology, a master's in organizational and industrial psychology
and a Lean SI Sigma Master black belt.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
She blends performance.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Psychology with process improvement. She has fifteen years of HR experience,
eight years of professional coaching expertise, and is an ICF
mentor coach. Doctor yasmin As, she's known to all who
know and love her, is also is also launching an
i SEEF accredited life coaching school to train coaches who
(02:08):
are experts in leadership performance enhancement across high stakes fields.
And when I say high stakes fields, she is currently
working with the United States Navy to enhance leadership capabilities
as well as with the Internal Revenue Service to foster
organizational inclusivity. So, as you can hear, she's highly educated
(02:34):
and accomplished, but I also happen to know her as
a pretty phenomenal human being. I am proud and blessed
to call her my friend, doctor yasmin Or. Yesman, I'm
probably just gonna call you Welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Thank you so much. Thank you. Hearing from your mouth,
I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Well, of course, I am so delighted that you are
here today.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
This is a hot topic.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
That we're going to talk about in my world with
my clients, with my support groups. And we're going to
get to that shortly, but first I really want everyone
to hear how we know one another. So when you
think back to twenty fifteen, it's already been ten years, right,
we at our Professional Coach Certification training school, right, And
(03:33):
actually Gracey McDonald was with us as well, who's been
on the show with us. She's my co author of
the Gift of Shift. And actually the three of us
just sort of gravitated into one another and we've all
collaborated in different ways since. But what's important about that,
I believe is that I often talk to my clients
(03:54):
about who they hang out with and about finding people
who inspire and help elevate them and just based on
shared values and having the ability then to communicate and
share ideas. And it's just by sharing time, right. I
(04:16):
think that's something that three of us all did and
still do.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Absolutely absolutely me have a lot of fun and mirror together, right,
And you're very like minded since day one. I don't
know the universe put us together, but did a great job.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I'm grateful. I'm very grateful too.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
And something else that I would say that grabbed my
attention about you and pulled me in. Was not just
your commitment to excellence that really stood out when we
were going through this intensive training, which was close to
a year long for all of us. I mean, we
chose a really intensive coach training program, and I'm so
(04:59):
glad that we did because I think it made us
the professionals that we are today in that field.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
But it was also I.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Learned that you were a hard working single boy mom,
which I had also been at one time in my life.
And I also learned that you'd been in an Olympic athlete.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Not Olympic level, but I run in twenty fourteen European Championship.
It was a track and field, you know events, and
all my life I'm in I was in athletics, in
track and field, in basketball. You know. You said dedication
(05:45):
for performance excellence. I think that was something that was
built from the you know, my secondary school years, elementary
school years started with sports, you know, and I'm I'm
grateful that I had experience. I had that experience because
you said, well, who you hang out with shapes your life,
(06:08):
and I was around with high performer athletes. When I
was growing up, and then you powerful ladies leader in life, right,
So what a blessing choices makes a great difference of
you live your life, the quality of your life.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Another thing that we had in common is your country
of origin is Turkey, and I had a country of
origin is Greece. Yet his family on his father's side
were Greeks from Turkey, so we found some commonalities there.
And I finally got to visit your beautiful homeland and
(06:50):
I just I fell in love with it. And anyway,
we've had more and more to share in common throughout
the years, and I have just loved that.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Anyway, we are here together today.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Because of a LinkedIn post that you made that grabbed
my attention, and in this post you had conducducted a
development a leadership development session with the United States Navy,
as I was talking about before, where you had a
very insightful discussion on this topic trust and betrayal, and
(07:26):
you said something to the effect of understanding how to
build trust requires a deep understanding of betrayal and the
profound way it shapes us as leaders. And when the
conversations turn to trust, it inevitably leads to discussions about
betrayal and that post yasmin is when I reached out
(07:50):
and asked if you could please come onto the show
and talk about these concepts because often in coaching sessions
and of course in support groups for separation and divorce,
these topics are quite common and hot. As I said,
because as you can imagine, when people share experiences of
(08:11):
betrayal and of course broken trust in their intimate relationships,
there's a lot of trauma behind all of that, and
then they want to learn about So I'm curious. I'm
very curious about this topic. Coming from your perspective and
your leadership and your training, how does this subject play
(08:34):
a crucial role in leadership development training for such high
stakes groups and high performance organizations like the United States Navy.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Oh, it plays a huge role. There is no high
performance in a team environment if you do not trust
one another. And I think high performance environments like in Navy.
Right when I say Navy, not all navyes warfighters or
different different levels, different groups that supports the warfighters. But
(09:12):
I want to give an example from a warfighter perspective.
I think it's easier for everyone to understand. Let's say
you and I we are in a you know, a
vulnerable area and you're trying to go somewhere. Right, If
I touch my back to yours and if I trust
that you are watching my back and I'm watching your front, right,
(09:34):
then together between our preperapheral vision, we have a three
sixty view. It's less vulnerable and you're more complete together
versus you try to take care of your front and
back all at the same time, you're more vulnerable. So
I think, you know, organizations like Navy, they do understand
(09:58):
trust is extreme important to build high performance teams right
in organizations. In corporate environments, though people are more individual individualistic,
have more individualistic approach to trusts. You know me first
than us versus it's us, you know. But the funny
(10:25):
thing is, you know me, I don't usually post on
social media at all. A day before, you know, we
had that trust section, I was having panic attacks because
you know, who am I to talk about trust while
I'm having hard time trusting people, you know, and betrayal
(10:50):
does that to you, right, So I had this thing
and I couldn't sleep that night. And the reason why
I post that was my Oh my god, this section
is over. I'm so glad that it's over. And you know,
also it was an emotional experience because I'm not alone
(11:10):
in this, I know right whenever I say that, And
this is not the first time that we were teaching
that subject so far, we had different cohorts I think
six seven already. Every time this subject is up, first
thing that they think about is betrayal. It's like, you know,
(11:32):
and someone says that, you know, and you're doing this, this,
this amazingly, you know a million things, but this one
thing we need to work on. All you think of that,
you know, whatever you need to work on. It's the
same thing with trust. As soon as you say trust,
they're like, oh, just like me, right, So they remember
(11:54):
their betrayal stories. So as you know, we coached as coaches,
we catch that energy. So I started asking betrayal stories
first before we start digging into trust.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
So that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
That makes a lot of sense because and that's why
at the top of the show I asked people to
think about their relationship with trust and if they'd ever
experienced betrayal and if that had any fluence, any influence
at all on how they think of trust. It's interesting
that you had said in that post that inevitably the
(12:39):
discussion would go to betrayal, so so much so that
you start leading this topic of trust with betrayal and
typing into that. I think we all know what betrayal is,
and it is considered one of the most hurtful human
(12:59):
emotions experiences. It is trauma. I think some people don't
know that it is considered trauma, but it is.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
What would you.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Say, from a psychologist standpoint, are some of the layers
of that trauma or the layers of betrayal if you will.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
It is trauma, and after betrayal that comes the grief.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
I want to share a lot of things about this,
but I want to start with this number one thing.
You know, if you lose someone, if there's a death
in your family, someone you lose, you know, someone you
love that you lost, it's painful. You know that it's painful.
People around you will know that it's painful, and they
(13:54):
will do their absolute best to make sure that you
return back to yourself.
Speaker 5 (13:59):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Yeah, with betrayal, it's not like that because it's shame
inducing and you feel alone in the journey. So you're
betrayed and now you're alone. It's like double the trauma
and people have a hard time understanding this, but I'm
going to share from the experience. I feel like it
(14:22):
is harder to recover from betrayal because of that, because
you don't share it with somebody. You know, what are
your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I think it grief is part of it, and I
think it looks and sounds a lot like grief some
as stages that people will go through, the emotional impact
is very different and the way people experience the emotional
impact is very different. And I think you described it beautifully.
And there's a very isolating element a betrayal and the
(15:05):
fact that so many people do minimize it, not even
recognizing it as trauma. There it betrayal trauma is a
real thing, and that's that's a real thing, right And
I mean that's that's a term in psychology, and there's
betrayed betrayal, trauma, recovery and there is a path to
(15:26):
healing and I want people and listeners to understand that.
And without that healing, then trust cannot ever really be
rebuilt and to come back will be a you know,
irreparable forever, which is going to impact life and we'll
talk more about that later, but thank you for sharing that,
because I think people need to have that validated for them,
(15:49):
that how betrayal is. And then to compare that to that, uh,
the grief of death, I think is very important, just
even wreckgnizing that the person who betrayed you is someone
who is still around somehow and that you might have
(16:10):
to face that that whether you hold on to the
hope that they may try to repair the relationship with you,
can create some ongoing trauma, whereas in death there is
eventually an easier place of acceptance.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Right absolutely, you know reality absolutely, and I want to
add you know, yes, all that is going on, and
on top of that, you have these feelings of well,
I am the one that he didn't want ry what
(16:53):
is wrong with me? You know? Comparisons and feeling that
foster imposter syndrome? And do you think that you only
have that in your personal life? You carry it around
everywhere you go, like am I enough? Or you know?
What is what is wrong with me? Why am I?
(17:16):
What did I do wrong? All those years that I
invested my life my heart? Why did I do it
to myself? It's just self beating and self damaging. If
you don't control it. Well, right, you're been. You didn't
(17:36):
get to help, you need you deserve. Right, then that
is an additional you know, load that you carry around
all your life.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Right, and then it self betrayal as you're describing that,
that self imported punishment of that blame game, and I
what was wrong with me?
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Why was I not yet enough?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
It is?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
It is so punishing, and we create suffering, ongoing suffering.
It is time for our first break. I know there's
so much more we could say, and we are going
to say a lot more on this subject. So yas man, hay,
tight listeners, don't go far.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
We'll be back with more. Sel CYPR.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Mike Zorich a three time California state champion in Greco
Roman wrestling at one hundred and fourteen pounds. Mike blind
six birth, was born in Hartford, Connecticut. He was a
six time national placer, including two seconds, two thirds, and
two fourths. He also won the Veterans Folk Style Wrestling
(18:46):
twice at one hundred and fifty two pounds. In all
these tournaments, he was the only blind competitor. Nancy Zorich
a creative spirit whose talents have taken her to the
stage and into galleries at execus in several states. Her father,
a commercial artist who shared his instruments with his daughter
and helped her fine tune her natural abilities, influenced her
(19:09):
decision to follow in his footsteps. Miss Zurich has enjoyed
a fruitful career doing what she loves. Listen Saturday mornings
at twelve Eastern for the Nancy and Mike Show for
heartwarming stories and interesting talk on the BBM Global Network.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Are you struggling to care for elderly parents or a spouse?
Do you wonder if being a caregiver is making you sick?
Are you worried about taking time off work to care
for elderly parents and balance work life and caregiving? Has
caregiving become exhausting and emotionally draining? Are you an aging
adult who wants to remain independent but you're not sure how?
(19:47):
I'm Pamela d Wilson. Join me for the Caring Generation
Radio show for caregivers and aging adults Wednesday evenings, six Pacific,
seven Mountain, eighth Central and nine Eastern, where I answer
these questions and share tips for manna, stress, family relationships, health,
wellbeing and more. Podcasts and Transcripts of The Carrying Generation
are on my website Pamela Dwilson dot com, plus my
(20:10):
caregiving library. Online caregiver support programs and programs for corporations
interested in supporting working caregivers. Help, Hope and support for
caregivers is here on the Carrying Generation and Pamela Dwilson
dot com.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Welcome back everyone, Thank you for joining me today.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I'm in Papillote.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I'm here with my special guest and friend, doctor Yasmin
go Kelp, and we are talking about trust and betrayal,
and we were just wrapping up a little bit about betrayal.
I'm sure it's going to be a running theme through
out today. I do want to say that the experience
of betrayal trauma will be different for everyone, and but
(21:08):
healing is possible, piece is possible, and trust can be rebuilt.
But we will talk more about that as we go on.
What exactly is trust though, yes, men, when we talk about.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Trust so in I think in every environment it's a
little different, depending on you know, the social environment that
you're in, organizations or at home. But my favorite description
came from Charles Friedman, and I didn't want to mess
(21:42):
it up. I wrote it here, I'm going to read
it to you. Trust is choosing to make something important
to you vulnerable to the actions of others in a way.
You know, my heart this crystal, very fragile. Here, I'm
giving it to you, and it's open to the actions,
(22:03):
whatever the actions you choose to have to your actions.
You know, will you save it and you know, protect
it it's your life, or will you just crash it
into pieces? You know, it's up to you. I think
that is trust, and it's such a vulnerable act.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah, woll just I was visualizing that, you know, handing
almost this glass heart. You know that could be broken
into pieces. So how do you build trust between two
people so much so that you're willing to hand over
(22:47):
that vulnerable part.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
There are so many factors that goes into it, and
in the trainings that be put together, be go through
that in a two hour section. It's hard to fit
it in in a short period of time. But I
think the most important thing is that you need to
(23:12):
understand the boundaries of people around you, and you need
to be so firm about the boundaries of yourself you
want to hold them and they will respect those boundaries.
And this is reciprocal right. They will hold they will
(23:34):
have their own boundaries and you will respect them, and
they will also keep on to their own boundaries, meaning
that those boundaries are the rules of the game. And
if there are no rules, I think that's the foundation.
There is no trust because I don't know what I'm
(23:54):
doing with you, you know, And if you don't have
any boundaries, and if I accidentally push your boundary, you know,
how would I know that I did because I didn't
know there was one. It built upon that, and research
shows us that trust is built in small actions. It
(24:21):
doesn't require big action, you know, in these little small actions,
you know, you being reliable over and over and over again,
you make decisions with integrity, You're accountable, you're keeping your word,
(24:42):
you're keeping my word, and you don't care other people's
word to me. Right, So if you can consistently practice
these non judgmentally and have the best generous assumptions about me,
thinking that you know, whatever I do, I'm not trying
(25:04):
to do it to betray you. You have the best
and true You believe that I have the best in
trust that I heard for you, and you do that repeatedly.
I think that's how you build trust.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Beautiful.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I want to ask about within a team, but first
because we were just talking about betrayal, and the most
common question that I get from clients and from support
group participants who've experienced betrayal in an intimate partner relationship
is how do you rebuild trust after betrayal? Whether it's
(25:43):
with the same person and probably not, but just how
do you ever? What I hear is how do I
ever trust?
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Again?
Speaker 4 (25:54):
That's very heavy right there, right so, because we said
at the beginning, you just experience the trauma, and you know,
in society it doesn't even recognize that as trauma. And here,
you know, you put a little piece of your soul
on the table. Let's say it's dark chocolate, you know,
(26:16):
and your partner puts a piece of your soul on
the table white chocolate. They merge due to the warmth
of those warm feelings into each other. Right after betrayal,
Try clean up the white chocolate out of your dark chocolate.
It's so messy, right, and it's you're never complete, You're
(26:38):
never you're never the same person. After a betrayal, A
piece of you dies with the betrayed and you have
to rebuild it from scratch. You need to relearn how
to love again, how to trust again, how to put
yourself out there again. It's health. It's not easy. Yeah,
(27:05):
And you know, to build trust, there are three things
needs to happen. First, you have to have someone in
front of you that is trustworthy, right, it makes sense. Second,
the environment is supposed to be available for you to
(27:26):
trust one another. In corporations, we do some, we see some,
you know, terrible corporate culture. It's hard to trust anyone.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
The third thing is the most important thing, your ability
to trust someone. If black thereof tripod is not complete,
so nothing holds up. So if you have hard time
trusting people, do not label it as there are no
people around me that I can trust.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Maybe it's you, you know.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
I know it's me, and that's why I knew. You know,
who am I to teach about trust?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
You know?
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Those who cannot do teach it?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Yeah? I do.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
One thing that that that I do work with people
when they've gone through something with light betrayal and and
it's led to divorce or dissolution of a of a
very important relationship in their life, is I say the
first person that you have to learn to trust again
is yourself, and then that leads to discernment in trusting others,
(28:46):
and that allows you then to do those or allow
those little, small, consistent, reliable actions you were describing before.
You'll know right away, uh, that it's that they're unreliable
or that they're inconsistent in those actions, And you won't
allow yourself to end up in a relationship that was
(29:09):
not trustworthy. You won't get that far down the road.
So it's building that trust within oneself that I find
is paramount to being able to be in those future
trustworthy mutual relationships.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
But having said.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
That, how do you build trust within a team. You've
got all these people coming from these different backgrounds of
different relationships with trust and different experiences with betrayal. Because
I can tell you I wouldn't if I took a
poll of people that I've met, how many if we
ask them to raise their hands, how many of you
(29:51):
have experienced betrayal? I don't know that anyone would not
raise their hand. And I'm not limiting this to intimate partners.
I would say people have been right by family, by
close friendships, by co workers. It's not limited to intimate
partners by any means. So what about in the workplace
(30:14):
within a team?
Speaker 4 (30:16):
So in a way, what you're asking is how do
you turn a group of people into high performance teams?
Because the trust factor is the factor that glues everyone
together to make them them team. Right, So that's the
(30:39):
corporate culture everything you know that try the tripod that
I talk about, you know a few minutes ago. If
the environment is right, right, if you know, just let's
let's look at a family unit, right, if the environment
is right, if the family members, if the you know,
(31:00):
if there are good values that are practiced, not professed,
but practiced right, and there are you know, love cherish
between the members of the family. If you know, if
it's a warm, nice environment for a family to be
(31:23):
everyone in the family. The you know, first reaction is
trust and cooperation. That's how you create trust and corporation.
So it starts with the corporate values, leadership values. Who
am I as a leader? And then you know, well
(31:44):
what am I reflecting to my team? Because they look
up to you? Right, leaders set the tone in any team.
So it starts with the leader and then creating the
right culture. So the the thing is in team environments.
No matter what. If you place a group of individuals
(32:08):
into one group that's a project group, right, a culture
will merge, but it may not be the one that
you want. So it has to be controlled in a
way that it is a trusting, warm, value based culture
(32:28):
that leaders actually understand you know, or dictate that you know,
or practice that every day with their decisions and all,
and the natural reaction is trust and corporation.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
I love that cultures emerge from groups regardless, So pay
attention to how you lead yourself. And then, however, in
a group where there is a designated leader, whether it's
the parent or in a family, or whatever it may be,
(33:02):
or it's the CEO at work or whatever it may be,
the designated leader on a project team, as you say,
paying attention to that because the culture is going to emerge.
It's just what kind of culture will it be?
Speaker 4 (33:19):
May not be what you want right.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
What you want exactly. It is time for our second break.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Don't go far. When we come back, we're going to talk.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
About how this molds us these type of experiences with
trust and betrayal, So don't go far.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
We'll be back with more sol CPR.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Doctor RC will share extraordinary resources and services that promote
educational success as well as making a difference in the
lives of all social workers as well as the lives
of children, adolescents and teens of today. She will have
open discussions addressing many of the issues that we face
about our youth and how being employed in the uniquely
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(34:01):
taught invaluable lessons through her personal experiences. She will also
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(34:23):
rc will provide thought provoking information that will empower, encourage
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radio show host and coach John M. Hawkins reveals strategies
(34:45):
to help gain perspective, build confidence, find clarity, achieve goals.
John M. Hawkins new book, Coached to Greatness Unlock your
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(35:08):
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their progress towards accomplishing goals. Listen to John Hawkins My
(35:31):
Strategy Saturdays one pm Eastern on the BBM Global Network
and tune in radio.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Thank you for tuning in today. I have doctor Yasman
here with me today and we were talking about trust
and betrayal. So Yasmin, how do our experiences with trust
and betrayal shape our sense of self and end up
impacting our relationships?
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Work in home, our brain Even from this today experience,
you know, at least for me, you know, because this
is one of the first podcasts that I'm doing, will
not be the same tomorrow. Our brain changes with experience
(36:22):
all the time. We know that even you know a
day learning your your brain changes. We can see it
in the brain scans. An experience like betrayal changes brain
as well in a bad way. Right, and then it
creates these pathways. You know, a little baby, If a
little baby touches on the soow hot stow, the first
(36:45):
reaction is grab the hand back right, and will that
baby touch that? So again no, even the baby knows, right,
So we have this strategy, or we have these pathways
in our head. If it is unconscious, it creates unconscious
behavioral patterns in our brain. So if this happens, I
(37:09):
will do this type of thing.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
If I have hard time trusting others because of the pathways,
because of the experience I had, you know, I don't
want to burnt like that again. I'm having hard time
trusting people. Let's say that if I'm leading a team.
Possible outcomes that we see is micromanaging, not being able
(37:35):
to delegate right, not being able to say no to
the projects because they feel like no one else can
do it. They just have to trust themselves over trusting themselves. Right,
schedules are packed, they don't have time for themselves anymore.
That leads to burnout. So a little experience with betraying. Here,
(38:00):
I am dealing with leadership issues like micromanaging very common,
you know, having hard time trusting team members. Therefore burnout.
They're experiencing burnouts, and you know, they have less generous
assumptions about people around them, so they expect bad rather
(38:25):
than trying to hear the good in any project or
any news. In return, people start leaving the positions surrounding
this person. So it impacts leadership behaviors dramatically, and usually
that's the root cause.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
So I wouldn't assume that's the same in personal life.
So let's say, for a parent, maybe they become overprotective
of their child, or they don't allow their spouse or
their children to certain chores. There they don't trust that
(39:04):
something will be done to a certain standard, or or
some I'm just hearing, I'm translating it into something at home.
But then that can lead to burnout too. But yeah,
so it changed our brain in the subconscious or the
unconscious as we say, and created these behaviors that are
(39:26):
impacting our overall well being, that's what I'm hearing. And
the relationships, our external relationships.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
Okay, because your brain is your brain you carry your
brain and those behavioral patterns from one relationship to another.
So you know, unless you soul resolved those issues in you,
both of the world will be affected your work life
and your personal life as well.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Right right, So all right, so it's start shaping how
we show up in all these other different areas that
we may not have associated.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
All came from betrayal.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Or trust in our inability to trust. So it's very
important that we heal this source wound, this origin wound,
so that we can because what does it cost us
to not be able to trust?
Speaker 3 (40:26):
What does it cost us.
Speaker 4 (40:29):
Well, not being able to reach to your potential as
a work performance or life performance, life fulfillment. You know,
we're wired for connection. Our survival depends on it. You know.
I hear that one of the leading causes of that
in the United States is loneliness. Well, lack of trust.
(40:54):
Not being able to trust leads to lack of connection
with people because no trust, no connection. It's the pre
requisite for any social relationship.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Sure so, so when when I first asked you the
definition of trust, you use the word choice. That we
had it was a choice. So what about when people
get stuck in maybe this seemingly choice to not trust.
Let's say they get stuck in some kind of negativity
about distrust. What would you say about that? Is there
(41:30):
choice involved even though there's a subconscious level.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
Well maybe not at first, right when you find out
that you're betrayed. Not that day is the first day,
you know, leading to your healing journey. You know, let
your emotions. Experience your emotions fully before you move on.
But if if it is excessive, you know, it's been
(41:56):
a year and you're still so angry just like day
one about what's happening, and your life hasn't changed yet,
you know, because you're supposed to. It's supposed to change you.
You know, these things happen so that you know you
reborn from this as a different version of yourself and
(42:20):
start living again. Right, all these anxiety, all these bad feelings,
you know, emotions, Certain hormones leads to these emotions. Cortisol
is you know, one of the leading hormone or negative emotions.
You know, at some point nobody is dripping courtisol to
(42:44):
your ear, your self generate that. You know, it becomes
a choice, So you're choosing to induce courtisol hormone by
your thoughts, which leads to your emotions, which leads to
your behaviors. So after a while, it's a choice to
(43:06):
live like that.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Yeah, So choosing to heal is important, and as we
said before, betrayal trauma, while it's real, there's also a
pathway to healing, and that acceptance stage that we know
happens with grief also can happen with betrayal trauma. And
there's a word that is used that integration comes and
(43:31):
that's that reintegrating and you're talking about connection, how important
it is, and it's reintegrating into relationships. And I think
then that choice to trust and those little I loved
your definition and it's that consistency and those small actions,
the reliability being proven over and over and then if
(43:52):
you can trust yourself to discern if that is happening
or not, then you walk away from a relationship loving that.
So tell me a little bit about the training curriculum
that you've developed, because I hear and I've seen that
you're using it at the government level, at the military level,
and at the corporate level. So tell me a little
bit about the components of it.
Speaker 4 (44:15):
So this curriculum started as a high performance team's leadership curriculum.
But then we adapted with my business partner Lewi Searles,
who's a retired Navy him and I we made it
created this thing that is includes a lot of stories.
(44:38):
Especially those who has extremely technical minds, engineers, scientists, finance professionals,
they learn social behavioral learning. Their social behavioral learning is
a little different than those you know, social butterflies. So
(45:00):
it's this curriculum to their environment. And between Levi and I,
we share a lot of stories. And the whole training,
the whole we have three levels of forty hours training
and many versions of it. The whole experience is when
(45:21):
learners leave the week long training, they feel like they
had a week long conversation with their friends and family
about some serious stuff. So that's the that's the you know,
feeling that we wanted them to have at the end
of this experience, and we wanted to make it memorable moving,
(45:45):
you know. So it's a self awareness journey for leaders
in you know, one on one, two on one, and
three on one level top.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
Level amazing, what kind of feedback are you getting?
Speaker 4 (46:01):
Awesome feedback like we have just I'm going to call
one person several of them. Actually, they said, we've been
in navy for twenty years. By far, hands down, this
is the best experience we had, you know, regular leadership teachings.
(46:22):
It's like trying to put you know, square tub in
a you know, around hole. You know, sometimes it doesn't
you know, it doesn't reach to them. We designed this
just for this particular group, very very very stem oriented
technical minds, so it just lends very beautifully with them.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
I'm glad to hear that it is time for our
third and final break, and when we come back, I'm
going to ask you about a key takeaway for our
audience today and how they can connect with you.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
So don't go far, will be right back with more
sol CPR.
Speaker 5 (47:04):
Are you struggling to care for elderly parents or a spouse.
Do you wonder if being a caregiver is making you sick?
Are you worried about taking time off work to care
for elderly parents and balance work life and caregiving? Has
caregiving become exhausting and emotionally draining? Are you an aging
adult who wants to remain independent but you're not sure how.
(47:24):
I'm Pamela d Wilson join me for the Carrying Generation
Radio show for caregivers and aging adults Wednesday evenings, six Pacific,
seven Mountain, eighth Central, and nine Eastern, where I answer
these questions and share tips for managing stress, family relationships,
health wellbeing, and more. Podcasts and transcripts of The Carrying
Generation are on my website Pamela Dwilson dot com, plus
(47:47):
my caregiving library. Online caregiver support programs and programs for
corporations interested in supporting working caregivers. Help, hope and support
for caregivers is here on The Carrying Generation and Pamela
d Wilson.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Mike Zorich a three time California state champion in Greco
Roman wrestling at one hundred and fourteen pounds. Mike blind
SI's birth was born in Hartford, Connecticut. He was a
six time national placer, including two seconds, two thirds, and
two fourths. He also won the Veterans Folk Style Wrestling
(48:23):
twice at one hundred and fifty two pounds. In all
these tournaments, he was the only blind competitor. Nancy Zorich
a creative spirit whose talents have taken her to the
stage and into galleries and exhibitions in several states. Her father,
a commercial artist who shared his instruments with his daughter
and helped her fine tune her natural abilities, influenced her
(48:46):
decision to follow in his footsteps. Miss Zorich has enjoyed
a fruitful career doing what she loves. Listen Saturday mornings
at twelve Eastern for the Nancy and Mike Show for
heartwarming stories and interesting talk on the BBM Global Network.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
We have reached the closing segment of our show today, yesman,
and again thank you for joining me. Based on everything
that we've talked about when it comes to trust and betrayal,
if you had one key takeaway for our audience, what
would it be?
Speaker 4 (49:23):
I think moving forward is you know that part is
very important. Right, If you experience something like this, I
know that it is shame inducing and shame cannot survive
if you share it with the right people, the people
who loves you, cares for you no matter what.
Speaker 5 (49:46):
Right.
Speaker 4 (49:48):
And also other things like, we need to change your brain.
You need to change your brain, reverse it in a
way that and we know that sleep, well, you know
eight hours a sleep a day helps with that. You
know apparently that rebuilding happens during sleep, So sleep hygen
(50:11):
is extremely important, eat well, take good care of yourself,
and you know, get help. Coaching is amazing. Right, You're
not mentally ill, You're just going through a humanly hardest
possible one of the hardest possible experiences, So get help.
(50:34):
There's no shame in that, right, It's sometimes hard to
fix that alone.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
That's right. Thank you for that. I love what you said.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
Shame cannot survive if you share it. I read that's
it because it is a very lonely place to be.
Thank you so much for that. So if someone wants
to reach out and contact you, may they have an
organization or a team that they are like, gosh, we
could benefit from learning how to trust one another, room,
(51:11):
change our culture, and how can they reach you.
Speaker 4 (51:15):
I'm available on LinkedIn. If they send me a message
through LinkedIn, I would return to your message right back. Currently,
we're rebuilding our website, so I want to make sure
that we receive all the communication through LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
And speak that out loud in case someone's listening. What
is your LinkedIn address?
Speaker 4 (51:39):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Yeah, it's been go cap or is I think it's
Performance Solutions.
Speaker 4 (51:44):
Performance and now I don't remember it by heart, but
maybe we can place the link under this video in
the show notes.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
For sure your website and your LinkedIn contact with low
notes where people can grab that and reach out to
you if they have an opportunity to tap into your expertise.
I highly recommend it. You're an excellent facilitator.
Speaker 4 (52:08):
I had the.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Privilege of joining one of your college she's a college
professor to guys, are so much more. And I got
thak to one of her graduate level classes that she
teaches at Grand Canyon University. I believe it is and
I was a guest speaker along with Tracy. So anyway,
(52:32):
the multi talented woman here. But I do know how
she facilitates and it's amazing, so firsthand knowledge there. So again,
thank you Yasmin for being here with me today and
sharing with my audience. I greatly appreciate it. Trust and
betrayal again such a hot topic with my people now,
(52:52):
Thank you so much. As this episode of Soul CPR
comes to a close, remember that healing is not a
linear it is a process of profound transformation. If today's
episode resonated with you, then please share it with others
who may need a lifeline of their own. We greatly
appreciate it, subscribe, rate and leave a review to help
(53:15):
us reach more hearts. You can always connect with me
on social media, and if you can't find Yasmin, I'll
help you connect with her as well. I'm on Facebook
at Skyview Coaching and I'm on all the other platforms
at ann Papa Yode. Let me know your thoughts as well,
your stories and the topics that you'd like to explore
(53:37):
more in future episodes. This show is for you and
we're going to make that happen on screen. You can
see my QR code and you can scan that, or
you can find me at Skyviewcoaching dot com. Thank you
for listening. Until next time, May you find strength in
your vulnerability and courage in your journey. Read deeply, love openly,
(53:59):
and live selfward way.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
Good day.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
This has been sole CPR with host and Papa Yode
breathe life back into your spirit with each episode where
she and special guests explore the relationships that hurt us
and discover that healing can only begin with you. Tuesdays
at three pm Eastern on the Bold Brave TV Network
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!