Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Are you ready to untangle from your past, recover from
heartbreak and revive your life. This is soul CPR with
your host and Papayote. We've all had soul crushing experiences
and lost ourselves in our pain, but there is a
way out. On this podcast, Amazon best selling author, award
winning life coach and advice columnist and Papa Yode helps
(00:28):
us navigate the path from heartbreak to healing. So now
please welcome the host of Soul CPR and Papa Yode.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
What wounds are unhealed in your life and do you
recognize the source of your pain? Could they possibly be
from that deepest cut betrayal? Welcome to soul CPR everyone,
Thank you for tuning in today and Papayote and have
a very special guest who's here to talk to us
about betrayal and healing from it. Doctor Debbie Silber, founder
(01:05):
of the PBT, the Post Betrayal Transformation Institute and National
Forgiveness Day. I love that. I can't wait to talk
to her about that, which is celebrated annually on September first.
Is an award winning speaker and a two time number
one international best selling author. Her podcast from Betrayal to
(01:25):
Breakthrough is also globally ranked within the top one and
a half percent of podcasts. Her recent PhD study on
how we experienced betrayal made three groundbreaking discoveries that changes
how long it takes to heal. And that's important because
so many people get stuck for years and even decades,
(01:47):
I found in my work. In addition to being on
Fox CBS, The Doctor aw showed Ted X twice and more,
she's dedicated to helping people move past their betrayals as
well as any other blocks preventing them from the help work, relationships, confidence,
and happiness. Happiness that they most want, and I'm going
to add that they deserve. So Welcome to the show,
(02:10):
Doctor Debbie Silver, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
So much, looking forward to our conversation.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I am as well, Debbie. I feel like we're soul
sisters already. I know when we spoke a month ago
or so about the show and about the topic, I
was like, I feel like when you are talking, I've
listened to your Ted talk and you're going through people's journeys.
I'm like, me too, that was me, that was me. Yes,
(02:37):
you've definitely figured all of this out, so let's help
my audience understand betrayal and all of its forms. So
how do you define betrayal?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
You know, I define it as the breaking of a
spoken or unspoken rule, and every relationship has them. And
the way it works is the more we trust and
the more we depend on someone, the deeper, the bigger
the betrayal. So for example, child who's totally dependent on
their parent and the parent does something awful, that's going
to have a different impact than let's say you're best
(03:07):
friend sharing your secret, your coworker taking credit for your
idea still betrayals. Different level of cleanup left in the.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Wake, right right, and different level of pain perhaps or
a different level or different how long it lasts, perhaps
the hurt, and perhaps how we deal with it. Some
like with the coworker, perhaps we would confront them, but
with someone else more intimate, maybe not.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
It's very it's very very challenging, and it's interesting, and
I know we'll get to my study. But originally I
was studying the betrayal of a family member, partner, or friend,
and I actually had to drop the friend part because
while they were they will infuriate us, just like a coworker.
Let's say, if they betray It doesn't bring us to
(03:59):
our knees. It doesn't break us. Of course, we're never
broke and bent like a family member or a partner.
Those are the ones that get us the most interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So tell me what led you to actually study betrayal. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I don't think anybody says, oh, you know, that's an
interesting topic. I think I want to study it. I
started it was health, and then mindset and personal development.
I had a really painful betrayal for my family. I
thought I did all I needed to do to heal
from that, and then a few years later it happened again.
This time it was my husband. So that was the
deal breaker. Anybody who's been through it your shocked, blindsided, devastated.
(04:40):
So got them out of the house and looked at
the two experiences, thinking well, what's similar to these two?
Of course me what else? And I realized I never
took my need seriously. It was always about everybody else.
And I'm one of those people that believes if nothing changes,
nothing changes. Usually I go to books, I go to courses.
There wasn't anything that I could find that could help me.
(05:00):
So here it was four kids, six dogs, a thriving practice,
and I went back for a PhD because I had
to study this at the PhD level, Like this was
so big for me that only a PhD could this
sort of you know, give me the healing and the
health that I needed. While I was there, I did
a study, a study betrayal, and that study led to
(05:22):
three groundbreaking discoveries which changed my family and my health,
my work.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
My life amazing. And I know you talk about the
lessons of betrayal. So I heard you say there was
something in common with these two betrayals, your family and
your partner, one of them being you, but also how
you showed up perhaps in these relationships. So is not
what you mean by the lessons of betrayal.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
There's always a lesson waiting to be learned. I'm not
suggesting for a minute that it's our fault. It's our opportunity.
There's a gigantic lesson. Maybe the lesson is that you
are lovable, worthy and deserving. Like believe that already. You
know you need better boundaries, whatever it is. You will
have opportunities in the form of people to teach you.
(06:11):
And we keep going through these things until we get
the mother of all experiences, and then we say that's it.
I'm changing this that the other thing lesson learned. So
that's why one of the classic signs of an unhealed
betrayal is a repeat betrayal. The face has changed, but
it's the same thing. So that's one of the ways
(06:33):
that we see it. We see it in health and
work in relationships. But in relationships, classic sign that it's
unhealed is that it's repeating.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yes, and that is exactly my story. And it started
with a friend, but then it became the boyfriend, and
then it became the husband and other friends in between.
But it did start that way, and I recognized that
was repeat betrayals until I, you know, I think went
back and did the work of healing. I've heard you
(07:03):
say that time does not heal all wounds.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
No, and you know we're taught that time. We're taught
that time heals all wounds. And I can tell you
from the research, and this was actually a part of
the second discovery that time won't heal it, even a
new relationship won't heal it. Healing heals it. And I'm
happy to go through that was the second discovery. I mean,
(07:29):
we can go through all of them and you'll see
it exactly what.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, we will definitely do that. I think the key
to that when I speak about time healing all wounds,
time is a catalyst. Perhaps we need time, but we
need to cooperate with time, right, And I think that
will show up in what you're going to talk about.
So let's talk about those discoveries. We understand now you
had your own obviously very deep and very personal betrayals
(07:56):
that led you now to go back to the PhD level,
say I have to understand this, and it sounds like
I also understand yourself, and in that you did make
some what's been labeled groundbreaking discoveries. So let's talk about
what those are.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, So the first one was, you know, originally I
was studying betrayal and post traumatic growth. And for those
who aren't familiar, I look at post traumatic growth. It's
sort of the upside of trauma. Hew whatever that trauma
is death of a loved one, disease, natural disaster leaves
you with a new insight, awareness, perspective you didn't have.
But I had been through death of a loved one,
(08:32):
I've been through disease. I was like, betrayal feels different.
I didn't want to assume it was the same for
everyone in my study, so I asked them, if you've
been through other traumas besides betrayal, does it feel different
for you? Unanimously, they said, it's so different, and here's why,
because it feels so intentional and you'll remember from your
own experience. Right, we take it so personally, so the
(08:56):
entire self get shattered, rejection, abandoned, and belonging, confidence worthiness, trust.
Like when we lose someone we love, we grieve, we're sad,
we more in the lost life will never be the same.
We don't question that relationship, We don't question our ability
to trust, we don't question our sanity. Right with betrayal,
you do. So that betrayal is a different type of
(09:19):
trauma that needs a different way to heal. That was
the first discovery.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Wow, Yes, that word intentional, I think resonates immediately. That's there,
you go, just summon up in one word. All right,
what's the second discovery?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yeah, So the second one was that there's actually a
collection of symptoms physical, mental, and emotional so common to
betrayal is now known as post betrayals syndrome. And we've
had over one hundred thousand people take our post Betrayal
Syndrome quiz to see to what extent they're struggling. And
I'm happy to share some of the stats because they're
mind blowing. Yes, please do okay, because it would have
(09:59):
been an awkward moment, Anne if you said no. Okay,
So as much as you're going to hear these symptoms,
listen for these numbers. Okay. This is over one hundred
thousand people, men, women, just about every country is represented.
Seventy eight percent constantly revisit their experience. Eighty one percent
(10:22):
feel a loss of personal power. Ninety four percent deal
with painful triggers, and if you've had a trigger, you
know how painful they are. These are the most common
physical symptoms. Seventy one percent have low energy. Sixty eight
percent have sleep issues, so you've trouble falling asleep staying asleep.
(10:43):
Sixty three percent of extreme fatigue, so you can go
to sleep all night, you wake up, you're exhausted. Your
adrenals have tanked. Forty seven percent have weight changes, so
in the beginning maybe you can hold food down. Later on,
you're emotionally eating, you're using food for comfort. Forty five
percent have a digestive issue, and that could be anything Crohn's, IBS, diverticulitis,
(11:05):
you name it. Some of the most common mental symptoms.
Seventy eight percent are overwhelmed. Sixty eight percent can't focus,
sixty two percent can't concentrate. Let's just take these numbers.
Imagine you can't concentrate, you have a gut issue, You're exhausted,
you still have to raise your kids, you still have
(11:25):
to go to work. Right, that's not even emotionally. So emotionally,
eighty eight percent experience extreme sadness. Eighty three percent are
very angry. And you can bounce back and forth between
those two all day long. Just a few more. Seventy
nine percent are stressed. This one killed me. Eighty four
percent have an inability to trust. Think about what an
(11:49):
inability to trust would do as far as your work,
your relationships, right, Sixty seven percent prevent themselves from forming
deep relationships because they're afraid of being heard again. So
here's where the big wall goes up. You're like, nope,
been there, done that. No one's getting near me again.
And we think it's coming from a place of strength.
It's not. That's coming from fear. Uh, eighty two percent
(12:11):
finds it hard to move forward. Ninety percent want to
move forward, but they don't know how.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yes, yeah, absolutely, So I was like taking notes, I'm
going okay, which one were me? Right? Which ones were
part of that percentage when I went through this, and
there were several and the revisiting, the triggers, the sleep issuesses,
the digestive issues, the inability to trust, and the preventing
(12:43):
deep relationships for a while. So all of this until
I healed. So I'm hearing physical, I'm hearing cognitive, I'm
hearing psychosocial, I'm hearing you know. There's no gamut of
it hits everything in every aspect of your life exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
And here's what's even I just want to just mention
this one other thing. You didn't hear me say, twenty percent,
thirty percent. These numbers are just super high. This is
what's crazy. They're also not even representative of a recent betrayal.
This could be from the parent who did something awful
when you were a kid. This could be from the
partner who broke your heart in high school. So think
(13:21):
about this. That person may not know care. Remember, they
may not even be alive, and here we are decades
later with symptoms because it's been unhealed. The good news
is you can heal from all of it.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
That was a third discovery, and what a discovery that is,
that you can heal from all of it, and we're
going to talk a lot about that later in the show.
I am just amazed at these I have led separation
of ward support groups for twenty eight years, so I've
done sort of I guess I've done my own studies,
(13:55):
though they're not informal, right, so I can tell you
that this is it's true for so many people. And
what I find is often again it's not their first
betrayal that's led to their divorce, right that or their
separation that I'm now meeting them at this point in
their life, and there's something before that. And often what
(14:17):
we can unearth if I work with them more one
on one later is that there's been a lot of
self betrayal in there between and maybe post and I
know we're going to talk a little bit about that
later on as well. It is time for our first break,
So when we come back, we're going to talk about
the healing that is possible because and I'm going to
(14:40):
tell you, Debbie. I meet people sometimes they come for
divorce support. It's not even fresh for them. Then it
may be seven years. I had one woman in my
group one time it had been twenty years and she's
just now making support and help for that loss and
still in a bit of denial about the fact that
there was even cheating and betrayal in her marriage. So
(15:04):
everything's resonating that you're saying that you've been able to
validate in your studies. Don't go far, everyone, We'll be
back with more soulcypr and with doctor Debbie Silver. See
you soon.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
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Speaker 4 (16:19):
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Speaker 2 (16:55):
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Speaker 2 (17:21):
Welcome back, everyone, and thank you for tuning in to
Soul CPR today here on the Bold Brave TV Network.
I'm in popyote along with my guests, doctor Debbie Silver. Debbie,
please let's talk about the healing part. There is a journey,
and I loved how you said. The good news is
no matter how long ago that this has maybe occurred
in someone's past, and no matter what percentage they may
(17:45):
fall in in any of these things that you mentioned
that somebody may experience, whether it's in their physical wellbeing,
their emotional wellbeing, or even in their mindset. What you
came up with with five stages of healing, actually, what
would you say? What are we experiencing? What do we
need to do to heal?
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Yeah, and just to just to show you how long
this can go on, just a real super brief story,
we had a woman in our community in her mid
eighties and she had a seventy plus year digestive issue
from a family betrayal. She was adopted. They didn't tell her.
It was like one of those seventy plus years with
a digestive issue. Two weeks into the program into healing,
(18:28):
she healed from a seventy plus year digestive issue.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I mean, that's what That's an amazing testimony.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Yeah, when you deal with the symptoms, yeah, you know,
with the root cause versus the symptoms.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah. So yeah, I remember having a medical doctor telling
me when you graduate, when you fall in love, and
when you something anyway, this will go away. And I
had the formation of annult and I had skin issues
and I had all this stuff. Well, of course that
(19:04):
didn't go away when I graduated and fell in love
because I hadn't healed. But it did go away when
I did the work of healing, all right, so talk
to us. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Yeah, So when the third discovery showed up for me,
this was personally the most exciting. And what was discovered
was while we can stay stuck for years, decades, a lifetime,
and so many people do, if we're going to fully heal,
and by fully heal, I mean those symptoms of post
betrayal syndrome that you heard to this completely rebuilt place
(19:34):
called post betrayal transformation, where you've rebuilt your life and yourself.
You're going to move through five proven, predictable stages. And
what's even more exciting about that is we now know
what happens physically, mentally, and emotionally at every one of
those stages, and we know what we need to do
in order to move from one stage to the next.
(19:54):
Healing is entirely predictable and happy to share the stages
if you want to hear them, let's here. Yeah, okay,
So stage one this is actually before it happens. And
if you can imagine four legs of a table, the
four legs being physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. What I
found with everybody mean to was a heavy lean on
the physical and mental thinking and doing. We're so good
(20:16):
at that, right, and kind of neglecting or ignoring the
emotional and the spiritual feeling and being well. If a
table only has two legs, it's going to be easy
for that table to topple over. That's us. Stage two
shock trauma D day discovery day. Everyone remembers their D
day and this is the breakdown of the body, the mind,
(20:37):
and the worldview. So right here you've gotten the news
that forever changes your life. You have ignited the stress response.
You're now headed for every single stress related symptom, illness, condition,
and disease. Your mind is in a complete state of
chaos and overwhelm. You cannot wrap your mind around what
you just learned. This makes no sense. Your worldview has
(21:00):
just been shattered. Your worldview is your mental model. The
rules that govern us, that prevent chaos. Trust this person.
These are the rules. This is how life works. And
in one earth shattering moment or series of moments, every
rule you've been holding to be real and true is
no longer. The bottom has bottomed out and a new
bottom hasn't been formed yet. It's terrifying. And I'm sure
(21:23):
you remember exactly where you were, exactly what happened. Everybody does, right,
But think about it. If the bottom were to bottom
out on you, what would you do. You'd grab hold
of anything or anyone in order to stay safe and
stay alive. That's stage three. Survival instincts emerge and this
is the most practical out of all of the stages.
(21:44):
If you can't help me, get out of my way?
How do I survive this? Where do I go? Who
can I trust? Here's the trap though Stage three, by far,
hands down is the most commonplace. We get stuck, just
like that woman you mentioned earlier. And here's why. Once
we've figured out how to survive our experience, because it
(22:05):
feels so much better than the shock and trauma we
just came from, we think it's good. And because we
don't know there's anywhere else to go. We don't know
there's a stage four or stage five. Transformation doesn't even
begin until stage four. But because we don't know there's
anywhere else to go, we plant roots here we're not
supposed to, but we don't know that, and four things
start to happen. The first one is and you'll you'll
(22:28):
see yourself when you were in this place. We start
getting those small self benefits. We get to be right,
we get our story, we get someone to blame, we
get sympathy from everyone we tell our story to, and
we're not getting much else. So this kind of is
the only thing that feels good, so we take it.
So we plant deeper roots. And now, because we're here
longer than we should be, the mind starts questioning and
(22:50):
doing things like maybe you're not that great, maybe you
deserved it, Maybe that's maybe that. So we plant deeper roots.
And now, because these are the thoughts we're thinking, this
is the energy we start putting out like energy attracts
like energy. So now we start attracting. This is where
that new relationship shows up. We start attracting peo full
and circumstances to confirm this is where we belong. Like,
(23:13):
here's where we'll go to therapy, and if that therapist
isn't highly skilled in betrayal, we'll feel heard, validated, understood.
We're not an inch closer to stage four. Here's where
we'll join some lame support group. And it now we
found our people, so we will sabotage ourselves because we
found our people. Yeah, here's where we're healing, but we'll
(23:36):
sabotage our healing because we're afraid to outgrow our betrayer.
This makes sense so far. Oh yeah, yeah, it gets worse,
but I'll get you out of here because it feels
so bad. But we don't know there's anywhere else to go.
We have to get through our day. So right here,
we start numbing avoid you're distracting. So here's where we
start using food, drugs, alcohol, work, TV whatever, like I'm
(24:00):
sure the client that you saw in order to avoid distract.
So we do it for a day, a week, a
month now to have it a year, ten years, twenty years.
And I can see someone twenty years later and say
that emotional eating you're doing with that drinking, do you
think that has anything to do with your betrayal? And
they look at me like I'm crazy him twenty years
ago all they did was lock themselves in stage three
(24:24):
and see there you see.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I see it? Yeah, clearly I experienced it. I lived it,
and I under and when I came out of it
and understood it. And while I didn't have the training
you have, I was able to put it in a
process to back out of it right and to help
others back out of it in a different way. So
(24:48):
I don't have it labeled this way, but it is
my CPR ultimately. So I'm like, I love it because
Debby's given me validation for what the process that I
came through. But I love the stages and and you're
trying to get you to stage four and five. Yes,
please stay that people do get stuck there. That's where
I meet them. I meet them at that stage. That's
where they come to me at I'm sure. Yeah, And
(25:12):
so here's what they can look forward to. Yes, if
they're willing to grieve more.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
In the loss, get rid of their story, a bunch
of things they need to do, they can move to
stage four. Stage four is finding and adjusting to a
new normal. So here's where you acknowledge I can't undo
what happened, but I control what I do with it.
Just in that decision, you're turning down the stress response.
You're not healing just yet, but that decision stop the
(25:40):
massive damage that was being accumulated in stage is two
and stage three. Stage four feels like and you'll remember
this feels like if you've ever moved, if you've ever
moved to a new house, office, kind of whatever. Your
stuff's not there, it's not quite cozy yet, but it's
like this sort of hopeful excitement.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
But here's what's interesting. If you were you don't take
everything with you, right, you don't take the things that
don't represent who you're now ready to become. And what
I found was there's this one spot as people go
from stage three and stage four. If your friends weren't
there for you, you don't take them with you. That
support group, you're done. That therapist who doesn't understand betrayal,
(26:18):
you're done. The betrayer who's not changing, You're done. And
people ask me all the time, touch Tibby, is it me? Yes,
it is. You're undergoing a transformation. And if they don't rise,
they don't come along. Very compy to question our relationships
in this stage anyway. When we settle into this, we
make it cozy kind of, We make it mentally home.
We move into the fifth most beautiful stage, and this
(26:39):
is healing, rebirth, and a new world view. The body
starts to heal, self love, self care, eating well, exercise.
We didn't have the bandwidth for that earlier. Now we do.
The mind is healing. We're making all kinds of new rules,
new boundaries based on the road we just traveled, and
we have a whole new world view based on everything
we see so clearly now and the four legs of
(27:01):
that table. In the beginning, it was all about the
physical and the mental. By this point we're solidly grounded
because we're focused on the emotional and the spiritual too.
Those are the five stages.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I love it. I love that how you've call it
healing and rebirth because I think that's exactly what happens
in the earth. And I love how the analogy of
the move because you don't take everything with you, but
you take the best parts of you. And I think
what people have to do is they have to look
(27:32):
back and remember who they were before before the initial trauma,
whatever the trauma was, and the betrayal was the first
trauma or whether it was a subsequent trauma, because you'd
already started self betraying at some point and it led
you into this wherever it was, and finding those best
parts of you and then making them better and enhancing
(27:53):
them and boundarying them, as you're saying, So being a
people pleaser or something I find that has left people
into relationships where they're manipulated or taking advantage of it
in some way, and then that often leads to it
happens to be with people who then often will betray
you because they can things of that nature. So finding
(28:15):
and going back and remembering who you are and what
are the beautiful parts of you, and not that there's
something wrong with that. Wanting to please people but how
do you do it in balance? And how do you
make that something that can be protected? So I love
the house analogy and the moving analogy and all of
these things, and it's how do we put fences around it?
And how do we have a doormat that says welcome
(28:37):
but wait to be invited in.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Yeah, and I love that you're bringing up the you know,
just taking the parts with you that you love, because
this is where when you're moving to stages four and
stage five, you are intentionally and deliberately recreating yourself where
you are you're looking, you're taking all the parts you love,
and you're leaving behind everything that no longer serves, and
(29:02):
you're creating a version of you that would never have
had the opportunity to be created had the experience not happened.
That's Traumawell served like, here's a silly example, but this
is something that I did. I used to be very
hard on myself, like just always criticizing myself and being
super critical. I wouldn't have a friend in the world
if I spoke to them the way I spoke to myself.
(29:24):
So after my betrayal, when I was deliberately and intentionally
recreating myself. I didn't like that I was doing that,
and I was like, I'm so done with that. I'm
just done. So now, like, for example, I get lost
wherever I go. This is what happens, so I know
to leave extra time. It's just the way it goes.
So I decided that, you know, it's going to be
a far reach to say I'm not going to do
those things again, but if I do going forward, they're
(29:47):
simply adorable and that's it. So I'm going to do
the same things and I'm going to call it just adorable.
And it just one of those things happened just today
and the harsh critic was about to come in and
I was like, no, that was a very adorable thing
that you just did. Like you get to define all
of it, and the beauty is after betrayal, you get
(30:09):
to recreate it, and you create that version of you
that is so confident and healthy and healed and whole
and empowered. That's the gift. That's what's that's who's waiting
for you in stages four.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
And five, and it's so beautiful and it's like it's
like a redesign of your life. If you will, you know,
and it's and it's fun. There's there's something fun about
that and it's super empowering. And I love that you
use the word decision. That Stage four started with the decision.
When people realize the power of choice in their lives
(30:46):
and they claim it and they claim it for themselves,
it allows them to show up in differently in relation
to others. And I love the difference between those prepositions
for yourself and to others. And it's just it can
change your life. There's the smallest things that it starts
(31:06):
with that decision and then the commitment to follow through.
And as you said earlier, people don't know the how.
And it's time for our second break. So when we
come back, I want you to talk a little bit
about the how that you have that maybe you work
with people, how you work with people in your at
your institute to actually implement the house. So everyone will
(31:31):
be back with more sel CPR.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Doctor RC will share extraordinary resources and services that promote
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of children, adolescens, and teens of today. She will have
open discussions addressing many of the issues that we face
about our youth and how being employed in the uniquely
skilled profession of social work for over eighteen years has
(31:57):
taught invaluable lessons through her little experiences. She will also
provide real life facts, examples, and personal stories that will
confirm that why serving as a child advocate is extremely
beneficial when addressing the needs of the whole child. Listen
Live to Dare to Soar Saturdays ten am Eastern on
the BBM Global Network and tune in radio as Doctor
(32:20):
RC will provide thought provoking information that will empower, encourage
and strengthen students, families and communities across our nation. You
can also visit her at soarwith Katie dot Com. Author,
radio show host and coach John M. Hawkins reveals strategies
(32:41):
to help gain perspective, build confidence, find clarity, achieve goals.
John M. Hawkins' new book, Coached to Greatness Unlock Your
Full Potential with Limitless Growth, published by I Universe, Hawkins
reveals strategies to help readers accomplish more people leaves the
book can coach them to greatness. Hawkins says that the
(33:04):
best athletes get to the top of their sport with
the help of coaches, mentors, and others. He shares guidance
that helps readers reflect on what motivates them. We discover
and assess their core values, philosophies, and competencies, find settings
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their progress towards accomplishing goals. Listen to John Hawkins My
(33:27):
Strategy Saturdays one pm Eastern on the BBM Global Network
and tune in radio.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Welcome back to Soul CPR. Everyone. We are talking about
betrayal today, but we are on the upside of that
because the good news today is doctor Debbie has told
us we can heal and it doesn't matter how long
it has been that since we've experienced a major betrayal
in our lives. So Debbie, we make the decision that
(34:38):
we are through just surviving this. We're through being in
that blame game and just having those roots, as you said,
and numbing behaviors perhaps and self sabotaging. So here we go.
We've made the decision to heal. What do we do?
How do we do it?
Speaker 3 (34:56):
And the decision is wonderful. You want to make sure
it's real. And the first thing is I would say,
there are these four questions. I invite everybody to ask
themselves to see if they're numbing, avoiding, distracting, because if so,
it's going to be holding you back. So I invite
you to write these down, which is my way of saying,
write these down. Ready, are you numbing, avoiding, distracting? If so,
(35:18):
how like call yourself on it. Do you walk into
the kitchen You're not the least bit hungry there you
are in the cabinets. The second question, what am I
pretending not to see? My pretending not to see my
relationship is in trouble, My pretending not to see that
health issue that needs my attention?
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Right?
Speaker 3 (35:34):
What am I pretending not to see? The third question,
what's life going to look like in five to ten years?
If I keep this going? We don't want to play
it out, but you need to take a look dealing
with it or not dealing with it exactly as you are,
play that out over five to ten years, and what
does that look like? And the fourth question, what can
life look like in five to ten years if I
(35:55):
change now? Right, I'm not saying it's easy. Transformation begins
when you tell you the truth, So that would be
the first thing that i'd recommend. The second thing is
I would check your willingness. You know, when I was
doing this study, I thought, well, you know, the ones
who were the hardest hit would grow the least because
they had the most overcome. That had nothing to do
(36:16):
with it. It was the ones who were willing blew the
doors off of the others. And in fact, there were
three groups who didn't heal. So again I invite everybody
to see if you're doing this, because it will prevent
you from your healing. One this was the group that
was numbing, avoiding, distracting. They ran to the doctor who
put them on a mood stabilizer or anti anxiety medication.
(36:37):
They emotionally ate. Whatever they did may have made the
day a bit easier to get through, not without a price.
They didn't heal. The second group, this was the group
they had their story and they were sticking with it,
like the woman you said right with the divorce. They
refused to let go of their story. They didn't heal.
The third group, this was the group where the betrayer
(36:59):
had very little consequences. So whether it was out of
religious reasons that was a big one, financial fear, whatever
it was, they did all they could to look the
other way, turn the other cheek. I saw two things
with this group. Number one, a further deterioration of the relationship.
And two, this group was the most physically sick. Brokenheart
(37:19):
can't handle that. So I invite everybody take a look
and see if you're preventing your healings. So check that
willingness and see if you say you're ready, but are
you really because you have to let go of that story,
you have to let go of certain things. So a
lot of people, I've had people who said, doctor Debbie,
(37:42):
I'd love to work with you, but can you get
my mind so that I'm okay with my partner who's
going to keep betraying me. I mean, I've actually had
people come to me with this, like they want me
to do some kind of mind work on them, so
they're okay with that. No, no, no, no. So check
your willingness and then know what stage you're in, because
(38:05):
if you know what stage you're in, then there are
certain things you do just to move from one stage
to the next.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, there's a difference between being willing and being able.
So perhaps the inability to heal might require a different
kind of therapy. Would you agree maybe there really are
in a deep depression or something of that nature, and
so maybe there's a different ladder for them to have
(38:33):
to climb before they can get to this stage or
this process. What would you say about that?
Speaker 3 (38:38):
You know, especially when you're in stage two shock trauma
therapy is a beautiful place. It could be very complimentary.
It's but when you are only working on the same
thing year after year and you're feeling just like I
said before, heard, validated, understood, and that's it, that's when
you want to try something in addition to And also,
(39:00):
because betrayal hits us on every level, every level needs
to be addressed, somatic, the body based activities needs to
be done too. The issues are in the tissues. Betrayal
hits us everywhere.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yes, I have members of my own family that have
been in therapy for years and years and years for
the very same issues. And you know, and as a coach,
it's very frustrating for me to want to say, let's
find something action oriented and future focus to add to
what you're doing and to the medications. As you're saying,
(39:33):
there's just so much more healing that could happen or
healing that could begin, I'd like to say that has
not been even been initiated. And it's sad to see
people get lost and stuck, as you say, in this
way and miss the opportunity to live their best lives
and to enjoy their most rewarding relationships and to move forward.
(39:56):
And speaking of that, you have a very incredible personal
story of out your journey of betrayal that I find
very few people end up at this place, and you
have this Forgiveness Day. So where does forgiveness play in
the role of healing and how did it play out
war life specifically? Sure?
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Well, first of all, the BBT Institute founded National Forgiveness
Day September first. Forgiveness has nothing to do with the
other person. It doesn't mean you're weak. It doesn't mean
you're a sucker. It doesn't mean you're setting yourself up
for it to happen again. It doesn't mean you're a pushover.
It means you value yourself enough to let go of
(40:36):
all that pain that this power has over you. So
that's really what it's about. It's not about the other person,
it's about you. Healing is always a choice whether you
rebuild yourself and move along. That's what I did with
my family. It just wasn't an option to rebuild with them,
(40:57):
or if this situation lends itself, if you're willing, if
you want to, you rebuild something from the ground up
new with the person who hurt you. And that's what
I did with my husband so not long ago as
to completely transform people. We married each other again, new rings,
new vows, new dress, and our four kiss is our
(41:17):
bridal party. You know, betrayal will show you who someone
truly is. It actually can also wake them up to
who they temporarily became. Not that you need to do
anything with that, but there's tremendous opportunity there if you choose.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Yeah, what an incredible story, and so happy for you
and your family that that is the outcome that you
all experience. But again that's because of the healing work
that was done by both you and your husband obviously
to come back together. You mentioned your family you had
to let go up. And I have clients who are
(41:54):
dealing with estrangements in their families and that's a very
difficult cult thing for them, but I think this applies
to them as well, is getting to that point getting
out unstuck from that place where they're holding onto the
story and being able to value themselves as well.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Right, it's tremendously painful because these were the people that
gave you a sense of safety and security. So when
this is the person, these are the people to take
that very sense of safety and security away, it's shattering.
It's absolutely shattering. But when you realize that they're just
coming from their lens, their perspective, doing the best they
(42:35):
can with their limited tools. And I'll tell you, I mean,
this is going to sound so crazy, but we had
six dogs at one time, and I'll never forget one day.
It's like, you know when you just have like this
aha moment, and I remember looking at and looking at
all of them. They're just playing, and it struck me
and I said, you know, it's interesting because I would
never look at them and not expect them to act
(42:57):
like dogs. They're dogs. That's what dogs do. Why am
I looking at my family to do anything other than
what they consistently show. That's on me.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Yes, Expectations right expectations lead to disappointments. Thank you for
sharing that. I'm sure people will relate to that and
hopefully benefit from that. Now, when we get back to
that word trust, I wrote, Dan, you said eighty four
percent from your study had anability to trust again, and
(43:27):
that of course impacted more than just their intimate relationships.
It was going to their their jobs and beyond. What
about the ability to trust oneself again and then be
able to find discernments like to be able to trust
other relationships. What do you have to say to that, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
That's such a great question because when trust is shattered,
this is the way it works. Here's the person you
trusted the most who just proved untrustworthy. So then the
next step of that is where was I How did
I not see? How did I not know? Now we
don't trust ourselves. So if we don't trust the person
(44:08):
we trusted the most, and we don't trust in ourselves,
how in the world can we trust in that boss,
that cowork or that collaborative partner, anybody on the outside.
So it all has to be rebuilt, but it has
to be rebuilt from the ground up. And what we
tend to do is we don't necessarily work to rebuild
the trust in ourselves or in the person we trusted
(44:30):
the most. We just want to give it back and
that's a setup for really some heartbreak. And trust has
a similar timeline to forgiveness. It takes a bit. I mean,
of course, you know when you're forgiving for yourself, not
for someone else. It's but it still takes a bit
of time. And even when I was doing this study,
(44:53):
I remember reading one study that said, when you forgive
and you don't feel safe and value, you feel worse.
When you forgive and you feel safe and valued, you
feel better, right, And that's because the way it works
is like with trust, every opportunity someone has to show
(45:14):
that they're trustworthy. That's like a brick building a brick wall.
So you could see how it takes time. Now, imagine
over time this brick wall is built. Now the person
who built the brick wall shatters the whole thing. You're
looking at, that rebel of bricks. You can say, I
don't have the least bit of interest in watching that
thing get rebuilt. Totally fine, walk away. However, if you
(45:36):
choose to watch that brick wall be rebuilt, that would
be your role. The person who tore it down has
to be a really good brick layer and put the
bricks down the same way as they went up. The
first time, brick by brick by brick, every opportunity they
have to show that they're trustworthy. That's one brick in
that brick wall. But here's what I so often see.
(45:58):
The brick wall that's taken time is built, it shattered.
The person who shattered the brick wall doesn't have much
of an interest in rebuilding it. So the other person
who's been betrayed, they're like, fine, I'll do it. No,
it's not your job. That's why they're hypervigilant. That's why
they don't feel safe. That's why they don't they don't trust.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, amazing, thank you for that. It is time for
our third and final break, Debbie. And when we come back,
I'm going to ask you to please share how people
can get in touch with you, your key takeaway for them,
and a little more about your institute, Doug Go far.
We'll be back with more, soel CP.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
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six birth, was born in Hartford, Connecticut. He was a
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(47:03):
twice at one hundred and fifty two pounds. In all
these tournaments, he was the only blind competitor. Nancy Zurich
a creative spirit whose talents have taken her to the
stage and into galleries and exhibitions in several states. Her father,
a commercial artist who shared his instruments with his daughter
and helped her fine tune her natural abilities, influenced her
(47:26):
decision to follow in his footsteps. Miss Zorich has enjoyed
a fruitful career doing what she loves. Listen Saturday mornings
at twelve Eastern for the Nancy and Mike Show for
heartwarming stories and interesting talk on the BBM Global Network.
Speaker 4 (47:43):
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Do you wonder if being a caregiver is making you sick?
Are you worried about taking time off work to care
for elderly parents and balance work life and caregiving? Has
caregiving become exhausting and emotionally draining?
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Now?
Speaker 4 (48:00):
Are you an aging adult who wants to remain independent
but you're not sure how. I'm Pamela d Wilson. Join
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and nine Eastern, where I answer these questions and share
tips for managing stress, family relationships, health, wellbeing, and more.
(48:21):
Podcasts and transcripts of The Carrying Generation are on my
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Speaker 2 (48:51):
Welcome back, and we are at the conclusion portion of
our show, and Debbie, I would love to know what
would your key takeaway be for our audience for people
who are listening and relating to the concept of betrayal, betrayal,
trauma and transformation.
Speaker 3 (49:09):
Absolutely, the first thing I'd want them to know is
if you have to repeat this a million times, it's
worth it. Even though it happened to you. It's not
about you. It's not about you. And we even have
a program for the betrayer and they tell me all
the time, it's not about my partner. This was me
(49:29):
and not making an excuse. This was their issue. It's
never never your fault.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Right and while they're maybe in a state, they may
assign blame to their partner, but when they finally do
their healing work, they will admit that right. So absolutely yes,
So tell us about the institute, tell us about how
people can connect with you and find you online and
(49:58):
all your social media.
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Thank you. So everything is at the PBT as in
Post Betrayal Transformation Institute dot com. The PBT Institute dot
com we have. It's really everything the research proved works.
So I certify a lot of coaches, the best of
the best get to work with in PBT. We teach
daily live classes, they have private sessions. Members have private
(50:21):
sessions where there are coaches. They're all certified in moving
you through the five stages, but they specialize in everything
having to do with what you'd experience after betrayal. So
we have someone who's great for stage two because she's
a somatic, body based coach mindset. As we get further
along reconciliation, separation, and divorce, self growth, I mean I
(50:42):
have a coach for everything. Our Stignature program, which literally
moves you through the stages and everything's everything's numbered according
to what stage you're on, and you have a way
to self assess takes a minute. And this way, you
do everything for stage two until you're in stage three.
Then you do everything for stage three until you're in
stage four. So it's just it's a way to fast
(51:03):
track your healing. And then, like I said, we have
a program for the betrayer as well. We have a
lot of couples who one goes through that are rebuild
for the betrayer, reclaim for the betrayed, and they just
come out as just a beautiful new couple.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
I love that rebuild and reclaim. That's beautiful. So, Debbie,
so my understanding it correctly. This literally is a linear
journey of healing, whereas grief we know cycles through and
it's not linear. But this is what you've learned in
your research, is a linear process.
Speaker 3 (51:39):
That everything happens at a certain place. I mean, there's
a reason why our signature program is mapped out the
way it is. Like for example, you know we mentioned forgiveness.
If we bring up forgiveness too early, it's going to
backfire every single time. We're not ready for it, you know,
So everything is in the order that it's that the
research proved works in that order in that way, And
(52:03):
like I said, if the research proved it works, it's
in there. If the research proved that it's not really
that effective, it's not. So it's it's it's already been curated.
And like you know, it's three months. So if you
want to move through the stages, and if you are
intentional and deliberate, deliberate, you will beautiful.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
I love that. So I like to try to have
a key takeaway too, and I think what I've learned
from you that I would would say is my key
take takeaway is that with the right support and the
right process, that you can't you don't just survive betrayal,
you can thrive because of it.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
Oh yeah, absolutely. I love how you said that it
is one of the most painful of the human experiences.
And you don't go through something like that just to
get back to where you were. You go through something
like that to create a version of you that the
version of you now is going to love meeting.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
Absolutely well said. Well, with that, it is time for
us to close out today's show, and Debbie, thank you
so much for being a guest on sol CPR. I'm
so grateful and I know my guests will benefit so
much and I encourage them to reach out to you
and to connect with you. So as we as we
close out today's episode of sol CPR, please everyone remember
(53:24):
that healing is not always super linear, so don't beat
yourself up if you don't find yourself going one, two, three.
But it is a process of profound transformation, as Debbie
has so graciously shared with us and eloquently as her
process offers. If today's story and episode resonate with you,
then please share this podcast with someone who may need
(53:47):
a lifeline of their own, and please subscribe, rate, and
leave a review to help us reach more hearts. All
the connection for Debbie will be in the show notes,
and as always, you can also connect with me at
skybew Coaching on Facebook and at and papayote on all
the other social media channels. So let me know your thoughts,
(54:07):
your stories, and what you'd like us to discuss more
of here in soul CPR. The shows for you, and
we're going to make it happen. So thank you for listening.
Until next time, may you find strengthen your vulnerability encourage
in your journey. Breathed deeply, love openly, and live soulfully
good to everyone.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
This has been Soul CPR with host and Papa Yode
breathe life back into your spirit with each episode where
she and special guests explore the relationships that hurt us
and discover that healing can only begin with you. Tuesdays
at three pm Eastern on the Bold Brave TV Network.
Are you ready to untangle from your past, recover from
heartbreak and revive your life. This is soul CPR with
your host and Papayote. We've all had soul crushing experiences
and lost ourselves in our pain, but there is a
way out. On this podcast, Amazon best selling author, award
winning life coach and advice columnist and Papa Yode helps
(00:28):
us navigate the path from heartbreak to healing. So now
please welcome the host of Soul CPR and Papa Yode.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
What wounds are unhealed in your life and do you
recognize the source of your pain? Could they possibly be
from that deepest cut betrayal? Welcome to soul CPR everyone,
Thank you for tuning in today and Papayote and have
a very special guest who's here to talk to us
about betrayal and healing from it. Doctor Debbie Silber, founder
(01:05):
of the PBT, the Post Betrayal Transformation Institute and National
Forgiveness Day. I love that. I can't wait to talk
to her about that, which is celebrated annually on September first.
Is an award winning speaker and a two time number
one international best selling author. Her podcast from Betrayal to
(01:25):
Breakthrough is also globally ranked within the top one and
a half percent of podcasts. Her recent PhD study on
how we experienced betrayal made three groundbreaking discoveries that changes
how long it takes to heal. And that's important because
so many people get stuck for years and even decades,
(01:47):
I found in my work. In addition to being on
Fox CBS, The Doctor aw showed Ted X twice and more,
she's dedicated to helping people move past their betrayals as
well as any other blocks preventing them from the help work, relationships, confidence,
and happiness. Happiness that they most want, and I'm going
to add that they deserve. So Welcome to the show,
(02:10):
Doctor Debbie Silver, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
So much, looking forward to our conversation.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I am as well, Debbie. I feel like we're soul
sisters already. I know when we spoke a month ago
or so about the show and about the topic, I
was like, I feel like when you are talking, I've
listened to your Ted talk and you're going through people's journeys.
I'm like, me too, that was me, that was me. Yes,
(02:37):
you've definitely figured all of this out, so let's help
my audience understand betrayal and all of its forms. So
how do you define betrayal?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
You know, I define it as the breaking of a
spoken or unspoken rule, and every relationship has them. And
the way it works is the more we trust and
the more we depend on someone, the deeper, the bigger
the betrayal. So for example, child who's totally dependent on
their parent and the parent does something awful, that's going
to have a different impact than let's say you're best
(03:07):
friend sharing your secret, your coworker taking credit for your
idea still betrayals. Different level of cleanup left in the.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Wake, right right, and different level of pain perhaps or
a different level or different how long it lasts, perhaps
the hurt, and perhaps how we deal with it. Some
like with the coworker, perhaps we would confront them, but
with someone else more intimate, maybe not.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
It's very it's very very challenging, and it's interesting, and
I know we'll get to my study. But originally I
was studying the betrayal of a family member, partner, or friend,
and I actually had to drop the friend part because
while they were they will infuriate us, just like a coworker.
Let's say, if they betray It doesn't bring us to
(03:59):
our knees. It doesn't break us. Of course, we're never
broke and bent like a family member or a partner.
Those are the ones that get us the most interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So tell me what led you to actually study betrayal. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I don't think anybody says, oh, you know, that's an
interesting topic. I think I want to study it. I
started it was health, and then mindset and personal development.
I had a really painful betrayal for my family. I
thought I did all I needed to do to heal
from that, and then a few years later it happened again.
This time it was my husband. So that was the
deal breaker. Anybody who's been through it your shocked, blindsided, devastated.
(04:40):
So got them out of the house and looked at
the two experiences, thinking well, what's similar to these two?
Of course me what else? And I realized I never
took my need seriously. It was always about everybody else.
And I'm one of those people that believes if nothing changes,
nothing changes. Usually I go to books, I go to courses.
There wasn't anything that I could find that could help me.
(05:00):
So here it was four kids, six dogs, a thriving practice,
and I went back for a PhD because I had
to study this at the PhD level, Like this was
so big for me that only a PhD could this
sort of you know, give me the healing and the
health that I needed. While I was there, I did
a study, a study betrayal, and that study led to
(05:22):
three groundbreaking discoveries which changed my family and my health,
my work.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
My life amazing. And I know you talk about the
lessons of betrayal. So I heard you say there was
something in common with these two betrayals, your family and
your partner, one of them being you, but also how
you showed up perhaps in these relationships. So is not
what you mean by the lessons of betrayal.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
There's always a lesson waiting to be learned. I'm not
suggesting for a minute that it's our fault. It's our opportunity.
There's a gigantic lesson. Maybe the lesson is that you
are lovable, worthy and deserving. Like believe that already. You
know you need better boundaries, whatever it is. You will
have opportunities in the form of people to teach you.
(06:11):
And we keep going through these things until we get
the mother of all experiences, and then we say that's it.
I'm changing this that the other thing lesson learned. So
that's why one of the classic signs of an unhealed
betrayal is a repeat betrayal. The face has changed, but
it's the same thing. So that's one of the ways
(06:33):
that we see it. We see it in health and
work in relationships. But in relationships, classic sign that it's
unhealed is that it's repeating.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yes, and that is exactly my story. And it started
with a friend, but then it became the boyfriend, and
then it became the husband and other friends in between.
But it did start that way, and I recognized that
was repeat betrayals until I, you know, I think went
back and did the work of healing. I've heard you
(07:03):
say that time does not heal all wounds.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
No, and you know we're taught that time. We're taught
that time heals all wounds. And I can tell you
from the research, and this was actually a part of
the second discovery that time won't heal it, even a
new relationship won't heal it. Healing heals it. And I'm
happy to go through that was the second discovery. I mean,
(07:29):
we can go through all of them and you'll see
it exactly what.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, we will definitely do that. I think the key
to that when I speak about time healing all wounds,
time is a catalyst. Perhaps we need time, but we
need to cooperate with time, right, And I think that
will show up in what you're going to talk about.
So let's talk about those discoveries. We understand now you
had your own obviously very deep and very personal betrayals
(07:56):
that led you now to go back to the PhD level,
say I have to understand this, and it sounds like
I also understand yourself, and in that you did make
some what's been labeled groundbreaking discoveries. So let's talk about
what those are.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, So the first one was, you know, originally I
was studying betrayal and post traumatic growth. And for those
who aren't familiar, I look at post traumatic growth. It's
sort of the upside of trauma. Hew whatever that trauma
is death of a loved one, disease, natural disaster leaves
you with a new insight, awareness, perspective you didn't have.
But I had been through death of a loved one,
(08:32):
I've been through disease. I was like, betrayal feels different.
I didn't want to assume it was the same for
everyone in my study, so I asked them, if you've
been through other traumas besides betrayal, does it feel different
for you? Unanimously, they said, it's so different, and here's why,
because it feels so intentional and you'll remember from your
own experience. Right, we take it so personally, so the
(08:56):
entire self get shattered, rejection, abandoned, and belonging, confidence worthiness, trust.
Like when we lose someone we love, we grieve, we're sad,
we more in the lost life will never be the same.
We don't question that relationship, We don't question our ability
to trust, we don't question our sanity. Right with betrayal,
you do. So that betrayal is a different type of
(09:19):
trauma that needs a different way to heal. That was
the first discovery.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Wow, Yes, that word intentional, I think resonates immediately. That's there,
you go, just summon up in one word. All right,
what's the second discovery?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yeah, So the second one was that there's actually a
collection of symptoms physical, mental, and emotional so common to
betrayal is now known as post betrayals syndrome. And we've
had over one hundred thousand people take our post Betrayal
Syndrome quiz to see to what extent they're struggling. And
I'm happy to share some of the stats because they're
mind blowing. Yes, please do okay, because it would have
(09:59):
been an awkward moment, Anne if you said no. Okay,
So as much as you're going to hear these symptoms,
listen for these numbers. Okay. This is over one hundred
thousand people, men, women, just about every country is represented.
Seventy eight percent constantly revisit their experience. Eighty one percent
(10:22):
feel a loss of personal power. Ninety four percent deal
with painful triggers, and if you've had a trigger, you
know how painful they are. These are the most common
physical symptoms. Seventy one percent have low energy. Sixty eight
percent have sleep issues, so you've trouble falling asleep staying asleep.
(10:43):
Sixty three percent of extreme fatigue, so you can go
to sleep all night, you wake up, you're exhausted. Your
adrenals have tanked. Forty seven percent have weight changes, so
in the beginning maybe you can hold food down. Later on,
you're emotionally eating, you're using food for comfort. Forty five
percent have a digestive issue, and that could be anything Crohn's, IBS, diverticulitis,
(11:05):
you name it. Some of the most common mental symptoms.
Seventy eight percent are overwhelmed. Sixty eight percent can't focus,
sixty two percent can't concentrate. Let's just take these numbers.
Imagine you can't concentrate, you have a gut issue, You're exhausted,
you still have to raise your kids, you still have
(11:25):
to go to work. Right, that's not even emotionally. So emotionally,
eighty eight percent experience extreme sadness. Eighty three percent are
very angry. And you can bounce back and forth between
those two all day long. Just a few more. Seventy
nine percent are stressed. This one killed me. Eighty four
percent have an inability to trust. Think about what an
(11:49):
inability to trust would do as far as your work,
your relationships, right, Sixty seven percent prevent themselves from forming
deep relationships because they're afraid of being heard again. So
here's where the big wall goes up. You're like, nope,
been there, done that. No one's getting near me again.
And we think it's coming from a place of strength.
It's not. That's coming from fear. Uh, eighty two percent
(12:11):
finds it hard to move forward. Ninety percent want to
move forward, but they don't know how.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yes, yeah, absolutely, So I was like taking notes, I'm
going okay, which one were me? Right? Which ones were
part of that percentage when I went through this, and
there were several and the revisiting, the triggers, the sleep issuesses,
the digestive issues, the inability to trust, and the preventing
(12:43):
deep relationships for a while. So all of this until
I healed. So I'm hearing physical, I'm hearing cognitive, I'm
hearing psychosocial, I'm hearing you know. There's no gamut of
it hits everything in every aspect of your life exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
And here's what's even I just want to just mention
this one other thing. You didn't hear me say, twenty percent,
thirty percent. These numbers are just super high. This is
what's crazy. They're also not even representative of a recent betrayal.
This could be from the parent who did something awful
when you were a kid. This could be from the
partner who broke your heart in high school. So think
(13:21):
about this. That person may not know care. Remember, they
may not even be alive, and here we are decades
later with symptoms because it's been unhealed. The good news
is you can heal from all of it.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
That was a third discovery, and what a discovery that is,
that you can heal from all of it, and we're
going to talk a lot about that later in the show.
I am just amazed at these I have led separation
of ward support groups for twenty eight years, so I've
done sort of I guess I've done my own studies,
(13:55):
though they're not informal, right, so I can tell you
that this is it's true for so many people. And
what I find is often again it's not their first
betrayal that's led to their divorce, right that or their
separation that I'm now meeting them at this point in
their life, and there's something before that. And often what
(14:17):
we can unearth if I work with them more one
on one later is that there's been a lot of
self betrayal in there between and maybe post and I
know we're going to talk a little bit about that
later on as well. It is time for our first break,
So when we come back, we're going to talk about
the healing that is possible because and I'm going to
(14:40):
tell you, Debbie. I meet people sometimes they come for
divorce support. It's not even fresh for them. Then it
may be seven years. I had one woman in my
group one time it had been twenty years and she's
just now making support and help for that loss and
still in a bit of denial about the fact that
there was even cheating and betrayal in her marriage. So
(15:04):
everything's resonating that you're saying that you've been able to
validate in your studies. Don't go far, everyone, We'll be
back with more soulcypr and with doctor Debbie Silver. See
you soon.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
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(15:39):
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(16:02):
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Speaker 4 (16:19):
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(16:39):
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Speaker 2 (16:55):
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Speaker 2 (17:21):
Welcome back, everyone, and thank you for tuning in to
Soul CPR today here on the Bold Brave TV Network.
I'm in popyote along with my guests, doctor Debbie Silver. Debbie,
please let's talk about the healing part. There is a journey,
and I loved how you said. The good news is
no matter how long ago that this has maybe occurred
in someone's past, and no matter what percentage they may
(17:45):
fall in in any of these things that you mentioned
that somebody may experience, whether it's in their physical wellbeing,
their emotional wellbeing, or even in their mindset. What you
came up with with five stages of healing, actually, what
would you say? What are we experiencing? What do we
need to do to heal?
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Yeah, and just to just to show you how long
this can go on, just a real super brief story,
we had a woman in our community in her mid
eighties and she had a seventy plus year digestive issue
from a family betrayal. She was adopted. They didn't tell her.
It was like one of those seventy plus years with
a digestive issue. Two weeks into the program into healing,
(18:28):
she healed from a seventy plus year digestive issue.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I mean, that's what That's an amazing testimony.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Yeah, when you deal with the symptoms, yeah, you know,
with the root cause versus the symptoms.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah. So yeah, I remember having a medical doctor telling
me when you graduate, when you fall in love, and
when you something anyway, this will go away. And I
had the formation of annult and I had skin issues
and I had all this stuff. Well, of course that
(19:04):
didn't go away when I graduated and fell in love
because I hadn't healed. But it did go away when
I did the work of healing, all right, so talk
to us. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Yeah, So when the third discovery showed up for me,
this was personally the most exciting. And what was discovered
was while we can stay stuck for years, decades, a lifetime,
and so many people do, if we're going to fully heal,
and by fully heal, I mean those symptoms of post
betrayal syndrome that you heard to this completely rebuilt place
(19:34):
called post betrayal transformation, where you've rebuilt your life and yourself.
You're going to move through five proven, predictable stages. And
what's even more exciting about that is we now know
what happens physically, mentally, and emotionally at every one of
those stages, and we know what we need to do
in order to move from one stage to the next.
(19:54):
Healing is entirely predictable and happy to share the stages
if you want to hear them, let's here. Yeah, okay,
So stage one this is actually before it happens. And
if you can imagine four legs of a table, the
four legs being physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. What I
found with everybody mean to was a heavy lean on
the physical and mental thinking and doing. We're so good
(20:16):
at that, right, and kind of neglecting or ignoring the
emotional and the spiritual feeling and being well. If a
table only has two legs, it's going to be easy
for that table to topple over. That's us. Stage two
shock trauma D day discovery day. Everyone remembers their D
day and this is the breakdown of the body, the mind,
(20:37):
and the worldview. So right here you've gotten the news
that forever changes your life. You have ignited the stress response.
You're now headed for every single stress related symptom, illness, condition,
and disease. Your mind is in a complete state of
chaos and overwhelm. You cannot wrap your mind around what
you just learned. This makes no sense. Your worldview has
(21:00):
just been shattered. Your worldview is your mental model. The
rules that govern us, that prevent chaos. Trust this person.
These are the rules. This is how life works. And
in one earth shattering moment or series of moments, every
rule you've been holding to be real and true is
no longer. The bottom has bottomed out and a new
bottom hasn't been formed yet. It's terrifying. And I'm sure
(21:23):
you remember exactly where you were, exactly what happened. Everybody does, right,
But think about it. If the bottom were to bottom
out on you, what would you do. You'd grab hold
of anything or anyone in order to stay safe and
stay alive. That's stage three. Survival instincts emerge and this
is the most practical out of all of the stages.
(21:44):
If you can't help me, get out of my way?
How do I survive this? Where do I go? Who
can I trust? Here's the trap though Stage three, by far,
hands down is the most commonplace. We get stuck, just
like that woman you mentioned earlier. And here's why. Once
we've figured out how to survive our experience, because it
(22:05):
feels so much better than the shock and trauma we
just came from, we think it's good. And because we
don't know there's anywhere else to go. We don't know
there's a stage four or stage five. Transformation doesn't even
begin until stage four. But because we don't know there's
anywhere else to go, we plant roots here we're not
supposed to, but we don't know that, and four things
start to happen. The first one is and you'll you'll
(22:28):
see yourself when you were in this place. We start
getting those small self benefits. We get to be right,
we get our story, we get someone to blame, we
get sympathy from everyone we tell our story to, and
we're not getting much else. So this kind of is
the only thing that feels good, so we take it.
So we plant deeper roots. And now, because we're here
longer than we should be, the mind starts questioning and
(22:50):
doing things like maybe you're not that great, maybe you
deserved it, Maybe that's maybe that. So we plant deeper roots.
And now, because these are the thoughts we're thinking, this
is the energy we start putting out like energy attracts
like energy. So now we start attracting. This is where
that new relationship shows up. We start attracting peo full
and circumstances to confirm this is where we belong. Like,
(23:13):
here's where we'll go to therapy, and if that therapist
isn't highly skilled in betrayal, we'll feel heard, validated, understood.
We're not an inch closer to stage four. Here's where
we'll join some lame support group. And it now we
found our people, so we will sabotage ourselves because we
found our people. Yeah, here's where we're healing, but we'll
(23:36):
sabotage our healing because we're afraid to outgrow our betrayer.
This makes sense so far. Oh yeah, yeah, it gets worse,
but I'll get you out of here because it feels
so bad. But we don't know there's anywhere else to go.
We have to get through our day. So right here,
we start numbing avoid you're distracting. So here's where we
start using food, drugs, alcohol, work, TV whatever, like I'm
(24:00):
sure the client that you saw in order to avoid distract.
So we do it for a day, a week, a
month now to have it a year, ten years, twenty years.
And I can see someone twenty years later and say
that emotional eating you're doing with that drinking, do you
think that has anything to do with your betrayal? And
they look at me like I'm crazy him twenty years
ago all they did was lock themselves in stage three
(24:24):
and see there you see.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I see it? Yeah, clearly I experienced it. I lived it,
and I under and when I came out of it
and understood it. And while I didn't have the training
you have, I was able to put it in a
process to back out of it right and to help
others back out of it in a different way. So
(24:48):
I don't have it labeled this way, but it is
my CPR ultimately. So I'm like, I love it because
Debby's given me validation for what the process that I
came through. But I love the stages and and you're
trying to get you to stage four and five. Yes,
please stay that people do get stuck there. That's where
I meet them. I meet them at that stage. That's
where they come to me at I'm sure. Yeah, And
(25:12):
so here's what they can look forward to. Yes, if
they're willing to grieve more.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
In the loss, get rid of their story, a bunch
of things they need to do, they can move to
stage four. Stage four is finding and adjusting to a
new normal. So here's where you acknowledge I can't undo
what happened, but I control what I do with it.
Just in that decision, you're turning down the stress response.
You're not healing just yet, but that decision stop the
(25:40):
massive damage that was being accumulated in stage is two
and stage three. Stage four feels like and you'll remember
this feels like if you've ever moved, if you've ever
moved to a new house, office, kind of whatever. Your
stuff's not there, it's not quite cozy yet, but it's
like this sort of hopeful excitement.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
But here's what's interesting. If you were you don't take
everything with you, right, you don't take the things that
don't represent who you're now ready to become. And what
I found was there's this one spot as people go
from stage three and stage four. If your friends weren't
there for you, you don't take them with you. That
support group, you're done. That therapist who doesn't understand betrayal,
(26:18):
you're done. The betrayer who's not changing, You're done. And
people ask me all the time, touch Tibby, is it me? Yes,
it is. You're undergoing a transformation. And if they don't rise,
they don't come along. Very compy to question our relationships
in this stage anyway. When we settle into this, we
make it cozy kind of, We make it mentally home.
We move into the fifth most beautiful stage, and this
(26:39):
is healing, rebirth, and a new world view. The body
starts to heal, self love, self care, eating well, exercise.
We didn't have the bandwidth for that earlier. Now we do.
The mind is healing. We're making all kinds of new rules,
new boundaries based on the road we just traveled, and
we have a whole new world view based on everything
we see so clearly now and the four legs of
(27:01):
that table. In the beginning, it was all about the
physical and the mental. By this point we're solidly grounded
because we're focused on the emotional and the spiritual too.
Those are the five stages.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I love it. I love that how you've call it
healing and rebirth because I think that's exactly what happens
in the earth. And I love how the analogy of
the move because you don't take everything with you, but
you take the best parts of you. And I think
what people have to do is they have to look
(27:32):
back and remember who they were before before the initial trauma,
whatever the trauma was, and the betrayal was the first
trauma or whether it was a subsequent trauma, because you'd
already started self betraying at some point and it led
you into this wherever it was, and finding those best
parts of you and then making them better and enhancing
(27:53):
them and boundarying them, as you're saying, So being a
people pleaser or something I find that has left people
into relationships where they're manipulated or taking advantage of it
in some way, and then that often leads to it
happens to be with people who then often will betray
you because they can things of that nature. So finding
(28:15):
and going back and remembering who you are and what
are the beautiful parts of you, and not that there's
something wrong with that. Wanting to please people but how
do you do it in balance? And how do you
make that something that can be protected? So I love
the house analogy and the moving analogy and all of
these things, and it's how do we put fences around it?
And how do we have a doormat that says welcome
(28:37):
but wait to be invited in.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Yeah, and I love that you're bringing up the you know,
just taking the parts with you that you love, because
this is where when you're moving to stages four and
stage five, you are intentionally and deliberately recreating yourself where
you are you're looking, you're taking all the parts you love,
and you're leaving behind everything that no longer serves, and
(29:02):
you're creating a version of you that would never have
had the opportunity to be created had the experience not happened.
That's Traumawell served like, here's a silly example, but this
is something that I did. I used to be very
hard on myself, like just always criticizing myself and being
super critical. I wouldn't have a friend in the world
if I spoke to them the way I spoke to myself.
(29:24):
So after my betrayal, when I was deliberately and intentionally
recreating myself. I didn't like that I was doing that,
and I was like, I'm so done with that. I'm
just done. So now, like, for example, I get lost
wherever I go. This is what happens, so I know
to leave extra time. It's just the way it goes.
So I decided that, you know, it's going to be
a far reach to say I'm not going to do
those things again, but if I do going forward, they're
(29:47):
simply adorable and that's it. So I'm going to do
the same things and I'm going to call it just adorable.
And it just one of those things happened just today
and the harsh critic was about to come in and
I was like, no, that was a very adorable thing
that you just did. Like you get to define all
of it, and the beauty is after betrayal, you get
(30:09):
to recreate it, and you create that version of you
that is so confident and healthy and healed and whole
and empowered. That's the gift. That's what's that's who's waiting
for you in stages four.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
And five, and it's so beautiful and it's like it's
like a redesign of your life. If you will, you know,
and it's and it's fun. There's there's something fun about
that and it's super empowering. And I love that you
use the word decision. That Stage four started with the decision.
When people realize the power of choice in their lives
(30:46):
and they claim it and they claim it for themselves,
it allows them to show up in differently in relation
to others. And I love the difference between those prepositions
for yourself and to others. And it's just it can
change your life. There's the smallest things that it starts
(31:06):
with that decision and then the commitment to follow through.
And as you said earlier, people don't know the how.
And it's time for our second break. So when we
come back, I want you to talk a little bit
about the how that you have that maybe you work
with people, how you work with people in your at
your institute to actually implement the house. So everyone will
(31:31):
be back with more sel CPR.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
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(31:57):
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(32:20):
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(32:41):
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Speaker 2 (34:17):
Welcome back to Soul CPR. Everyone. We are talking about
betrayal today, but we are on the upside of that
because the good news today is doctor Debbie has told
us we can heal and it doesn't matter how long
it has been that since we've experienced a major betrayal
in our lives. So Debbie, we make the decision that
(34:38):
we are through just surviving this. We're through being in
that blame game and just having those roots, as you said,
and numbing behaviors perhaps and self sabotaging. So here we go.
We've made the decision to heal. What do we do?
How do we do it?
Speaker 3 (34:56):
And the decision is wonderful. You want to make sure
it's real. And the first thing is I would say,
there are these four questions. I invite everybody to ask
themselves to see if they're numbing, avoiding, distracting, because if so,
it's going to be holding you back. So I invite
you to write these down, which is my way of saying,
write these down. Ready, are you numbing, avoiding, distracting? If so,
(35:18):
how like call yourself on it. Do you walk into
the kitchen You're not the least bit hungry there you
are in the cabinets. The second question, what am I
pretending not to see? My pretending not to see my
relationship is in trouble, My pretending not to see that
health issue that needs my attention?
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Right?
Speaker 3 (35:34):
What am I pretending not to see? The third question,
what's life going to look like in five to ten years?
If I keep this going? We don't want to play
it out, but you need to take a look dealing
with it or not dealing with it exactly as you are,
play that out over five to ten years, and what
does that look like? And the fourth question, what can
life look like in five to ten years if I
(35:55):
change now? Right, I'm not saying it's easy. Transformation begins
when you tell you the truth, So that would be
the first thing that i'd recommend. The second thing is
I would check your willingness. You know, when I was
doing this study, I thought, well, you know, the ones
who were the hardest hit would grow the least because
they had the most overcome. That had nothing to do
(36:16):
with it. It was the ones who were willing blew the
doors off of the others. And in fact, there were
three groups who didn't heal. So again I invite everybody
to see if you're doing this, because it will prevent
you from your healing. One this was the group that
was numbing, avoiding, distracting. They ran to the doctor who
put them on a mood stabilizer or anti anxiety medication.
(36:37):
They emotionally ate. Whatever they did may have made the
day a bit easier to get through, not without a price.
They didn't heal. The second group, this was the group
they had their story and they were sticking with it,
like the woman you said right with the divorce. They
refused to let go of their story. They didn't heal.
The third group, this was the group where the betrayer
(36:59):
had very little consequences. So whether it was out of
religious reasons that was a big one, financial fear, whatever
it was, they did all they could to look the
other way, turn the other cheek. I saw two things
with this group. Number one, a further deterioration of the relationship.
And two, this group was the most physically sick. Brokenheart
(37:19):
can't handle that. So I invite everybody take a look
and see if you're preventing your healings. So check that
willingness and see if you say you're ready, but are
you really because you have to let go of that story,
you have to let go of certain things. So a
lot of people, I've had people who said, doctor Debbie,
(37:42):
I'd love to work with you, but can you get
my mind so that I'm okay with my partner who's
going to keep betraying me. I mean, I've actually had
people come to me with this, like they want me
to do some kind of mind work on them, so
they're okay with that. No, no, no, no. So check
your willingness and then know what stage you're in, because
(38:05):
if you know what stage you're in, then there are
certain things you do just to move from one stage
to the next.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, there's a difference between being willing and being able.
So perhaps the inability to heal might require a different
kind of therapy. Would you agree maybe there really are
in a deep depression or something of that nature, and
so maybe there's a different ladder for them to have
(38:33):
to climb before they can get to this stage or
this process. What would you say about that?
Speaker 3 (38:38):
You know, especially when you're in stage two shock trauma
therapy is a beautiful place. It could be very complimentary.
It's but when you are only working on the same
thing year after year and you're feeling just like I
said before, heard, validated, understood, and that's it, that's when
you want to try something in addition to And also,
(39:00):
because betrayal hits us on every level, every level needs
to be addressed, somatic, the body based activities needs to
be done too. The issues are in the tissues. Betrayal
hits us everywhere.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yes, I have members of my own family that have
been in therapy for years and years and years for
the very same issues. And you know, and as a coach,
it's very frustrating for me to want to say, let's
find something action oriented and future focus to add to
what you're doing and to the medications. As you're saying,
(39:33):
there's just so much more healing that could happen or
healing that could begin, I'd like to say that has
not been even been initiated. And it's sad to see
people get lost and stuck, as you say, in this
way and miss the opportunity to live their best lives
and to enjoy their most rewarding relationships and to move forward.
(39:56):
And speaking of that, you have a very incredible personal
story of out your journey of betrayal that I find
very few people end up at this place, and you
have this Forgiveness Day. So where does forgiveness play in
the role of healing and how did it play out
war life specifically? Sure?
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Well, first of all, the BBT Institute founded National Forgiveness
Day September first. Forgiveness has nothing to do with the
other person. It doesn't mean you're weak. It doesn't mean
you're a sucker. It doesn't mean you're setting yourself up
for it to happen again. It doesn't mean you're a pushover.
It means you value yourself enough to let go of
(40:36):
all that pain that this power has over you. So
that's really what it's about. It's not about the other person,
it's about you. Healing is always a choice whether you
rebuild yourself and move along. That's what I did with
my family. It just wasn't an option to rebuild with them,
(40:57):
or if this situation lends itself, if you're willing, if
you want to, you rebuild something from the ground up
new with the person who hurt you. And that's what
I did with my husband so not long ago as
to completely transform people. We married each other again, new rings,
new vows, new dress, and our four kiss is our
(41:17):
bridal party. You know, betrayal will show you who someone
truly is. It actually can also wake them up to
who they temporarily became. Not that you need to do
anything with that, but there's tremendous opportunity there if you choose.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Yeah, what an incredible story, and so happy for you
and your family that that is the outcome that you
all experience. But again that's because of the healing work
that was done by both you and your husband obviously
to come back together. You mentioned your family you had
to let go up. And I have clients who are
(41:54):
dealing with estrangements in their families and that's a very
difficult cult thing for them, but I think this applies
to them as well, is getting to that point getting
out unstuck from that place where they're holding onto the
story and being able to value themselves as well.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Right, it's tremendously painful because these were the people that
gave you a sense of safety and security. So when
this is the person, these are the people to take
that very sense of safety and security away, it's shattering.
It's absolutely shattering. But when you realize that they're just
coming from their lens, their perspective, doing the best they
(42:35):
can with their limited tools. And I'll tell you, I mean,
this is going to sound so crazy, but we had
six dogs at one time, and I'll never forget one day.
It's like, you know when you just have like this
aha moment, and I remember looking at and looking at
all of them. They're just playing, and it struck me
and I said, you know, it's interesting because I would
never look at them and not expect them to act
(42:57):
like dogs. They're dogs. That's what dogs do. Why am
I looking at my family to do anything other than
what they consistently show. That's on me.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Yes, Expectations right expectations lead to disappointments. Thank you for
sharing that. I'm sure people will relate to that and
hopefully benefit from that. Now, when we get back to
that word trust, I wrote, Dan, you said eighty four
percent from your study had anability to trust again, and
(43:27):
that of course impacted more than just their intimate relationships.
It was going to their their jobs and beyond. What
about the ability to trust oneself again and then be
able to find discernments like to be able to trust
other relationships. What do you have to say to that, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
That's such a great question because when trust is shattered,
this is the way it works. Here's the person you
trusted the most who just proved untrustworthy. So then the
next step of that is where was I How did
I not see? How did I not know? Now we
don't trust ourselves. So if we don't trust the person
(44:08):
we trusted the most, and we don't trust in ourselves,
how in the world can we trust in that boss,
that cowork or that collaborative partner, anybody on the outside.
So it all has to be rebuilt, but it has
to be rebuilt from the ground up. And what we
tend to do is we don't necessarily work to rebuild
the trust in ourselves or in the person we trusted
(44:30):
the most. We just want to give it back and
that's a setup for really some heartbreak. And trust has
a similar timeline to forgiveness. It takes a bit. I mean,
of course, you know when you're forgiving for yourself, not
for someone else. It's but it still takes a bit
of time. And even when I was doing this study,
(44:53):
I remember reading one study that said, when you forgive
and you don't feel safe and value, you feel worse.
When you forgive and you feel safe and valued, you
feel better, right, And that's because the way it works
is like with trust, every opportunity someone has to show
(45:14):
that they're trustworthy. That's like a brick building a brick wall.
So you could see how it takes time. Now, imagine
over time this brick wall is built. Now the person
who built the brick wall shatters the whole thing. You're
looking at, that rebel of bricks. You can say, I
don't have the least bit of interest in watching that
thing get rebuilt. Totally fine, walk away. However, if you
(45:36):
choose to watch that brick wall be rebuilt, that would
be your role. The person who tore it down has
to be a really good brick layer and put the
bricks down the same way as they went up. The
first time, brick by brick by brick, every opportunity they
have to show that they're trustworthy. That's one brick in
that brick wall. But here's what I so often see.
(45:58):
The brick wall that's taken time is built, it shattered.
The person who shattered the brick wall doesn't have much
of an interest in rebuilding it. So the other person
who's been betrayed, they're like, fine, I'll do it. No,
it's not your job. That's why they're hypervigilant. That's why
they don't feel safe. That's why they don't they don't trust.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, amazing, thank you for that. It is time for
our third and final break, Debbie. And when we come back,
I'm going to ask you to please share how people
can get in touch with you, your key takeaway for them,
and a little more about your institute, Doug Go far.
We'll be back with more, soel CP.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Mike Zurich a three time California state champion in Greco
Roman wrestling at one hundred and fourteen pounds. Mike blind
six birth, was born in Hartford, Connecticut. He was a
six time national placer, including two seconds, two thirds, and
two fourths. He also won the Veteran's Folk Style Wrestling
(47:03):
twice at one hundred and fifty two pounds. In all
these tournaments, he was the only blind competitor. Nancy Zurich
a creative spirit whose talents have taken her to the
stage and into galleries and exhibitions in several states. Her father,
a commercial artist who shared his instruments with his daughter
and helped her fine tune her natural abilities, influenced her
(47:26):
decision to follow in his footsteps. Miss Zorich has enjoyed
a fruitful career doing what she loves. Listen Saturday mornings
at twelve Eastern for the Nancy and Mike Show for
heartwarming stories and interesting talk on the BBM Global Network.
Speaker 4 (47:43):
Are you struggling to care for elderly parents or a spouse?
Do you wonder if being a caregiver is making you sick?
Are you worried about taking time off work to care
for elderly parents and balance work life and caregiving? Has
caregiving become exhausting and emotionally draining?
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Now?
Speaker 4 (48:00):
Are you an aging adult who wants to remain independent
but you're not sure how. I'm Pamela d Wilson. Join
me for the Carrying Generation Radio show for caregivers and
aging adults Wednesday evenings, six Pacific, seven Mountain, eighth Central,
and nine Eastern, where I answer these questions and share
tips for managing stress, family relationships, health, wellbeing, and more.
(48:21):
Podcasts and transcripts of The Carrying Generation are on my
website Pamela Dwilson dot com, plus my caregiving library. Online
caregiver support programs and programs for corporations interested in supporting
working caregivers. Help, hope and support for caregivers is here
on The Carrying Generation and Pamela Dwilson dot com.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Welcome back, and we are at the conclusion portion of
our show, and Debbie, I would love to know what
would your key takeaway be for our audience for people
who are listening and relating to the concept of betrayal, betrayal,
trauma and transformation.
Speaker 3 (49:09):
Absolutely, the first thing I'd want them to know is
if you have to repeat this a million times, it's
worth it. Even though it happened to you. It's not
about you. It's not about you. And we even have
a program for the betrayer and they tell me all
the time, it's not about my partner. This was me
(49:29):
and not making an excuse. This was their issue. It's
never never your fault.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Right and while they're maybe in a state, they may
assign blame to their partner, but when they finally do
their healing work, they will admit that right. So absolutely yes,
So tell us about the institute, tell us about how
people can connect with you and find you online and
(49:58):
all your social media.
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Thank you. So everything is at the PBT as in
Post Betrayal Transformation Institute dot com. The PBT Institute dot
com we have. It's really everything the research proved works.
So I certify a lot of coaches, the best of
the best get to work with in PBT. We teach
daily live classes, they have private sessions. Members have private
(50:21):
sessions where there are coaches. They're all certified in moving
you through the five stages, but they specialize in everything
having to do with what you'd experience after betrayal. So
we have someone who's great for stage two because she's
a somatic, body based coach mindset. As we get further
along reconciliation, separation, and divorce, self growth, I mean I
(50:42):
have a coach for everything. Our Stignature program, which literally
moves you through the stages and everything's everything's numbered according
to what stage you're on, and you have a way
to self assess takes a minute. And this way, you
do everything for stage two until you're in stage three.
Then you do everything for stage three until you're in
stage four. So it's just it's a way to fast
(51:03):
track your healing. And then, like I said, we have
a program for the betrayer as well. We have a
lot of couples who one goes through that are rebuild
for the betrayer, reclaim for the betrayed, and they just
come out as just a beautiful new couple.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
I love that rebuild and reclaim. That's beautiful. So, Debbie,
so my understanding it correctly. This literally is a linear
journey of healing, whereas grief we know cycles through and
it's not linear. But this is what you've learned in
your research, is a linear process.
Speaker 3 (51:39):
That everything happens at a certain place. I mean, there's
a reason why our signature program is mapped out the
way it is. Like for example, you know we mentioned forgiveness.
If we bring up forgiveness too early, it's going to
backfire every single time. We're not ready for it, you know,
So everything is in the order that it's that the
research proved works in that order in that way, And
(52:03):
like I said, if the research proved it works, it's
in there. If the research proved that it's not really
that effective, it's not. So it's it's it's already been curated.
And like you know, it's three months. So if you
want to move through the stages, and if you are
intentional and deliberate, deliberate, you will beautiful.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
I love that. So I like to try to have
a key takeaway too, and I think what I've learned
from you that I would would say is my key
take takeaway is that with the right support and the
right process, that you can't you don't just survive betrayal,
you can thrive because of it.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
Oh yeah, absolutely. I love how you said that it
is one of the most painful of the human experiences.
And you don't go through something like that just to
get back to where you were. You go through something
like that to create a version of you that the
version of you now is going to love meeting.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
Absolutely well said. Well, with that, it is time for
us to close out today's show, and Debbie, thank you
so much for being a guest on sol CPR. I'm
so grateful and I know my guests will benefit so
much and I encourage them to reach out to you
and to connect with you. So as we as we
close out today's episode of sol CPR, please everyone remember
(53:24):
that healing is not always super linear, so don't beat
yourself up if you don't find yourself going one, two, three.
But it is a process of profound transformation, as Debbie
has so graciously shared with us and eloquently as her
process offers. If today's story and episode resonate with you,
then please share this podcast with someone who may need
(53:47):
a lifeline of their own, and please subscribe, rate, and
leave a review to help us reach more hearts. All
the connection for Debbie will be in the show notes,
and as always, you can also connect with me at
skybew Coaching on Facebook and at and papayote on all
the other social media channels. So let me know your thoughts,
(54:07):
your stories, and what you'd like us to discuss more
of here in soul CPR. The shows for you, and
we're going to make it happen. So thank you for listening.
Until next time, may you find strengthen your vulnerability encourage
in your journey. Breathed deeply, love openly, and live soulfully
good to everyone.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
This has been Soul CPR with host and Papa Yode
breathe life back into your spirit with each episode where
she and special guests explore the relationships that hurt us
and discover that healing can only begin with you. Tuesdays
at three pm Eastern on the Bold Brave TV Network.
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