July 13, 2025 • 26 mins
We cue the dramatic music and rewind the tape as Warner Bros brings HBO back into the Max mix. Was the name change a bold move—or a branding blunder?
Get show notes for this episode and check out past episodes of the Speaking Human podcast by visiting speakinghuman.com.
#Podcast #SpeakingHuman #VO #Branding #Marketing #Advertising #Business #SmallBiz #Brands #Ads #simplify #popculture #art #Brands #Taglines #hbo #hbomax #max #streaming
Get show notes for this episode and check out past episodes of the Speaking Human podcast by visiting speakinghuman.com.
#Podcast #SpeakingHuman #VO #Branding #Marketing #Advertising #Business #SmallBiz #Brands #Ads #simplify #popculture #art #Brands #Taglines #hbo #hbomax #max #streaming
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Speaking Human Today. On Speaking Human, we cue the dramatic
music and rewind the tape as Warner Brothers brings HBO
back into the Max Mix was the name change of
Bold move or a branding blunder. Speaking Human.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to Speaking Human, where we simplify the world of
marketing for humans. I'm Shad calmly and with me is
my co host Patrick Jebber.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Welcome, Shad.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Welcome friend, Sir Patrick, Me and you. We have you know,
a few things in common. One of probably the most
important thing we have in common. We are both children
of HBO.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Hm hm, Yes, that is true. We've talked about it
on the cast before. We both grew up in a
world before HBO, which not a lot of people can
say that's true, but.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
You know, we were kids who were touched by HBO,
so it kind of made us cooler than a lot
of other people and gave us this unspoken bond where
we have things embedded in our brains, like the HBO
feature presentation hmmm, you know intro that they would play
before the movies that triggers something in us, like a
(01:31):
Pavlovian response where other people would be like, I don't
know what that is for us, that's automatically like, ah,
there it is.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, we all have them, right, the thing you remember
as a child, it just made an impact in your
life for some reason. It's like this was just television really.
I mean, we didn't realize it was making an impact,
but you saw it so many times that now looking back,
you go, ah, you know this familiar feeling and it's
(01:59):
a it's generally positive.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, oh yeah, definitely. So for us, you know, I
don't know how many what percent of the American population
grew up with a little bit of HBO in their lives.
We have, you know, we're connected. So if you're listening
and you're one of us, welcome. But let me take
you back Patrick and ask you some trivia questions about
(02:24):
HBO's early days of original programming. How do you feel
about that? Do you feel good about that?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
My track record on trivia lately has been failure after failure.
I get one right every maybe ten, So we'll see.
I don't know. I mean I feel like I remember
things from that time period, but then again, you know,
out of context, will I maybe not?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, I mean this is a mixed bag. I got
a few for you, so we'll see what happens. But
you know, you never know. You just got to lower
the bar on your expectations from trivia. I think a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, gonna win Jeopardy, but you know I have fun
doing it, right, I mean that's the idea.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, maybe you'll get on to Jeopardy. All right, So
a true Daily Devil here for your first question. HBO's
first ever series was Inside the NFL. This is a
sports show that launched in nineteen seventy seven. I think
it's still going. I'm not sure, maybe in some iteration.
(03:27):
But the network also launched this football set sitcom in
the nineteen eighties. Do you know what it is? Comedy
set in the world of football? Nineteen eighties?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Can you give me a hint on that one. It's
on the tip of my tongue, I think, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Can give you a few hints. So the title is,
you know, it's a football term. Starting this show, we
had oj Simpson was on it for a while. We'd
ogre from Revenge of the Nerds. If you remember that guy.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, and I literally remember this show. But I in
my head, like, I don't just escaping you, it's excaping me.
It's like right on the tip of my tongue.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Ran from nineteen eighty four to nineteen ninety one. It
also started Delta Burke for a while, which I didn't
remember who was designing women.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah, I remember all those people. Like, that's so crazy
to think, because I it's it's something that people I
don't think talk about today. But yeah, I can't. I
can't remember the name of it escapes me.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Well, it'll all come flooding back to you a minute.
The name of it is.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
First in ten, okay, Yeah, yeah, first and ten Okay, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Think they show some like you know, you know it
was HBO. They because they would swear and they'd have
like some locker room nudity or something like that.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, that was an early That was an early show.
Like yeah, I don't even know, like today you wouldn't
show kids of our age something like that, probably, but
because it it was so new and times were different
back then, we were watching stuff that you know, was
probably should have been rated r.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah. That was one of the joys of having HBO
in your household. You're getting to see a lot of
things you probably shouldn't see. Yeah, all right, next question though,
the Hitchhiker came before it. You might remember that show
on HBO. What other horror anthology series did HBO air
in the eighties and nineties.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Creep Show?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Not Creep Show. But you're on the right track. The
best hint I could give you is, oh, Tales from
the Crypt. There you go. Yeah, I know that's what
you're thinking of. Yeah, but similar it was. It was
like three different tales of you know, horror.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah it was. It was a little bit scary. It
was a little bit scary for you when you're a kid.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, all right. Though not HBO's first prison show. That
would be Maximum Security in nineteen eighty four. Produced by
Ron Howard. This nineteen ninety seven show kicked off HBO's
move into quality hour long dramas.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I'm sure I will know the name, but I think
ninety seven, you know, out of your timeframe, mm hmmm hm.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
That was OZ.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, I remember the name of that show, and I
remember it being popular, But that was I'd never watch
an episode of that because it was kind of after
my you know, you're out of the house or whatever.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I remember an exciting time was I like moved into
a place after college and they had like free HBO
for like a year.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Or something like that, and I was like, yes, it's
the best. I'm back baby, wow, live in the high life.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Man. All Right, I got one more for you. Let's
see if you can finish strong here. Okay, can you
name one of the after midnight sex focused docuseries HBO
aired in the nineties and early two thousands. There were multiple,
You just have to name one.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I mean the one that I'm thinking about was the
one where they had like people who had like sex
fetishes and stuff like that, and it was real sex.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Real sex. Yeah, we will accept. I also would have
taken taxicab confessions or cat house real sex. I think
had like you know, there was like real sex twenty five.
So they did it like a new version every year.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
It wasn't really scripted, right, it was. It was very
like raw. It was like they were interviews and they
would interview people and then they would like show scenes
from their like real life.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
This was the good thing about like early HBO. They
were just trying things. They were not afraid to like
kind of throw things out there, and.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
They had the ability to do that. There weren't the
restrictions that regular cable had.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, they didn't have the limitations that some of the
networks or even the cable networks did.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
So in case you didn't get it by now from
all the trivia we've gone through, we're talking about HBO today.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
HBO in the news lately a little bit, a little
bit yep of.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Their own making, mm hmm. But we thought it was
a good time to talk about them and some of
the big news.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Ah, yes, oh yes. HBO Home Box Office, what started
as a way to bring these uncut movies into your
home without commercials, eventually became the prestige TV powerhouse, right.
I mean, that's kind of what we're talking about at
the beginning there, with like the shows that nobody else
(08:42):
was doing. But we're also talking about shows like The Sopranos,
Game of Thrones succession, which are you know, fairly recent.
But at its peak, HBO wasn't just a channel, it
was a cultural force. Then came the streaming era. First
there was HBO Go for subscribers and HBO Now for
(09:05):
the chord cutters like us, you know, we were chord cutters,
shan yep. Then came HBO Max, which combined HBO with
a wider Warner Brothers Catalog, Cinemax, and then they dropped
the HBO from HBO Max and just went with Max.
Why because apparently clarity is overrated, so everybody knows HBO anyway,
(09:28):
Warner Brothers Discovery, which is the conglomerate that owns it,
is putting HBO back in Max. So it's going to
be HBO Max again, not officially in the name, but
very much in the branding. So that raises the obvious question,
which is is this a good idea good or bad move?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Good or bad move. It's a good move, it's also
kind of a duh move, and I guess a better
late than never move. They obviously, it seems to me,
didn't realize the value of what they had. You know,
they undervalued the HBO brand where they're just like, ah,
we can strike this out. We can just kind of
tuck it away. We don't really need to put it front.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
And center, which is weird, right, Let's just say that
up front. That's weird that they didn't recognize that.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Super weird. And I would say maybe they're not good
at business.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Right, I mean yeah, and I mean we're not geniuses
over here, We're not claiming to be like, oh, we're
these gurus who know stuff that nobody else knows. I mean,
I think everyone probably said the same thing, like why
did they do that?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, I think it's pretty straightforward. People are like HBO
is what people know. Keep HBO front and center, So
it seems pretty obvious. So I guess the fact that
now they kind of see the light a little bit
is a good thing, even though, you know, probably later
than it should be.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I look at this though, and I'm like, the news
probably says more about what's going on with streaming than
it actually does. Maybe Warner Brothers, Discovery or even HBO.
You know, I think a couple of years ago, they're like,
we're gonna be Netflix, We're gonna be this streaming service.
We're shoving all this stuff in here. It's kind of
been these past years like the gold rush streaming. You know,
(11:18):
everybody wants to be this thing. Everybody wants to be
the streamer and like pile on the subscribers. This seems
to me like Warner Brothers is backing away from that,
or like maybe realizing this isn't where the gold is
and they're figuring out like HBO and the content itself
is probably where we're gonna find our gold. Rather than
being the platform that everybody comes to. We can like
(11:41):
have HBO the quality content. We can sell out the
content if we need to, or put it on other platforms,
which they've done because it's been popping up on Netflix.
I think that's kind of more the realization here than
them actually being like, oh, HBO people people are into that.
Seems like they've kind of come back around one as
a brand and as a content creator because they seem
(12:03):
to be cranking that out more than they were a
year ago too.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
But I mean it has literally been two years. It's
not very long.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, you know, it's a full reversal. They're just kind
of like going back to the exact thing that obviously
probably shouldn't have changed in the first place. Even looking
at you know, reading through their press release, looking at
some of the language and the way they talk about it,
they kind of try to spin it a little bit.
You know. This evolution has also been influenced by changing
(12:33):
consumer needs, has it, And the fact that no consumer
today is saying they want more content, but most consumers
are saying they want better content. That's I think a
little bit what I was talking about. They're more realizing, Okay,
it's not about just like piling discovery and everything in
there and making it max with other services, filling the
(12:55):
more basic needs with volume. WBD has clearly distinct wished
itself through its quality and distinct stories, and no brand
has done that better and more consistently over fifty plus
years than HBO.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
There's a longevity to it. There is equity equity in
that name, positive equity, not negative equity. There's positive equity
in that name. You don't just blow that off. I
guess you don't just blow it off is a statement
that is incorrect in this case because they just blew
it off originally, you know, But I mean you shouldn't
(13:32):
do it.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, which again seems like super obvious, but was not
obvious to them. Maybe after they lost eleven billion dollars
last year they're like, well, maybe we should uh think
about this HBO thing a little more. But I give
them a little credit for going back to something they changed.
You know, it takes a little it takes a little
bit of stones to eat it publicly like that, to
(13:54):
just say all right, we were wrong, we shouldn't have
changed in the first place. Not many brands to do that.
I think most would like tweak it in a slightly
different way, you know, Max plus HBO or try to
do something like that, to just steer it away from that.
But they're just like, now we're going back. You know,
even that playful marketing where it's like how does it go?
(14:15):
It's like same app, new ish name.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, it does, it does take. It does take some goal.
It is also one of those things is completely avoidable,
you know what I mean, Like they could have avoided
this if they'd maybe done a focus group or asked us,
we would have told them. We would have told them
it was a bad idea. So what do you think, like,
in terms of all time brand reversals, does it crack
(14:40):
your top ten? If we were to make let's say Quickster.
If you remember Netflix and Quickster, when Quickster was going
to be there with let's say that's number one, is
that number one?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I think it's probably a pretty clear number one. When
I think about brands being like, we're gonna do this
thing and then they're like, whoa, I guess we're not
gonna do this thing. I think Quickster takes the top
spot if you're thinking about that.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Right, Yeah, they changed course on that quicker than the
name itself. Before they even finished saying the name, they
were like, uh, just kidding.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
They released it on the Internet and immediately regretted it.
It was like waking up the next day after, you know,
a drunken night, and they're like, oh god, what have
we done?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
The Internet still in its youth of trolling brands. But man,
they did not take that lightly.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
So yeah, where does this one fall? Obviously it's not
QUICKSTERR level. It's a good brand about face, you know,
it's a fun one. I mean, my first reaction when
you shared this with me was, you know, I was like,
oh my god. No, they didn't do it. They didn't
go back.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
But here's the thing with this, they kind of did
it of their own volition.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
It wasn't one of those things where people were like rioting.
It wasn't like a quick star where like the crowd
reaction was so bad it forced them into it. They
kind of chose the move, you know, it was like
new Coke. They didn't put it out there and then
people were like so angry with them they had to
change it. They did it because they tried something else
it wasn't quite working, or maybe they're like HBO people
(16:20):
kind of like that. I don't know why they did it,
but they made this choice on their own. So for
that reason, it doesn't rank as high as some of
these other things, but maybe like a number ten because
it still is pretty funny. What do you think?
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I agree it's not quick star level because that was epic,
you know, but it's up there. You know. It's like
they walked a room and said, let's make the name simpler,
which all branding people love to do. You know, let's
cut everything away that's not necessary. But you know, then
you realize you accidentally deleted the part that people really
(16:54):
care about.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
It is funny. You can imagine the meeting where they're
like on a board they have like HBO max and
they're like, we need we need to simplify and make
it easy. Which words should we cut? Yeah, they're like,
it's got to be HBO.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I mean, you know, nobody knows what that is. It's
an acronym. Just do you think that that was a
room full of people who didn't grow up on HBO?
That's what I feel like.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Maybe there probably was not one HBO kid in the room.
There are probably a lot of Discovery kids.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Yeah, because it seems that way. And we talked about
this in the show. When they changed the name, we
were kind of confused by it then if I remember correctly,
and I still go back to this, like if if
you had any knowledge of HBO, maybe it's because we
grew up on it.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
No, that's not it. Because they had the Sopranos and
Game of you know, all these shows later that are
very associated with the HBO brand that made it super strong,
you know, in these later years. So it's not just that.
It's not just like the history or anything like that.
It's built this like Prestige TV, this era that we're
(18:03):
in now, we were in I don't know where we
are exactly with TV, but I mean it kickstarted the
whole thing. So it's got a very strong reputation with
streaming and with streaming series. Yeah, well let's think about that.
Let's do a little mind thundering.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I love mind thundering.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Potential future names for HBO Max because we know it's
going to change. We know this isn't gonna last forever, right.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah, they're gonna play the branding hokey pokey if you will. So, yeah,
I expect to see some different names in the future.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
So let's let's help them out. Let's throw throw around
some ideas here. What about if they want to keep
the same thing but switch it up a little bit.
Do you think they could go with HBO to the max?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Hmmm yeah, yeah, like Cradle to the Grave that movie?
Remember that movie?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Oh yeah with Stephen Sigall and yeah Dmax DX okay
DX I think it was DMX. Yeah that sounds right.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, no, I like that. I think you know, might
as well throw a two in there. What about HBO.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Ish related to their tagline now or their whatever you
want to call.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
That, Yeah, yeah, Or they could totally go way off
the reservation and do WB plus but the B is silent,
really confused people, Oh.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, that would get them. They could do h.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
WBO Oh yeah, whoa bo.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
It's some sort of treatment there, you know. Yeah, so
like the w's in or the WB maybe is in
parentheses or something.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Oh god, yeah, that would that would be People would
be so confused. They'd be like, what is this that
we're watching? What about Max with HBO inside?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Is that the full name or or is that just
how it how it looks?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
It would be Max with HBO inside and you could
do the little TM you know, kind of like intil inside, but.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
It's kind of like Max the one to watch for HBO,
but it's better. Yeah, it sounds like HBO is being
held prisoner though.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah, but it has like a little sound like didn't
you know isn't that the intel?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah? What do you think of HBO beyond? There's one? Hmmm,
like pretty standard? Right, yeah, but here's another one. I
don't know if this is a Warner Brothers movie or
not HBO Beyond Thunderdome.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Oh yeah, no, I like that? Is that? Is that
a Warner Brothers movie?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I don't know. I don't think.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
I don't. It might not be Studio behind Mad Max
Beyond Thunderdome Warner Brothers. It is Warner Brothers road Show
Film Distributors road shows the animation at the beginning. So
I didn't think it was Warner Brothers. But yeah, good
call on that. So that could work HBO Beyond Thunderdome
(21:11):
Thunderdome or just HBO Thunderdome.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Kill It. That'd be good.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
You could do stream the streaming formerly known as Max.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
We always like the Prince treatment.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, they have like just a symbol.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, an unpronounceable symbol.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah. People be like, oh, that's the streaming formally known
as Max or HBO Max or whatever.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
What if they want to take it up a notch? Right?
Want I show people how extreme they are? Hboverdrive?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Oh I like that, so the O here's here's.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Another better version that they would like better Maximum HB
Overdrive Max.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
You got your HBO Can it have a Melio Estevez
as the I mean it has to and there has.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
To be trucks, some sort of trucks smashing into it.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah, the truck with the goblin face. They didn't have
like a like a green goblin.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah face on Maximum Overdrive? Is that a Warner Brothers move?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I mean, is it?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
I don't know, let's find out.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
If it is, they might as well just call it
quits now on HBO Max.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Do you know De Laurentis production, Well, I'm sure they
could buy it.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
They could buy the rights that Warner Brothers got cash.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Oh this is saying. Maximum Overdrive was directed by Stephen King,
produced by Dina de Laurentis, distributed by Warner Brothers. Oh,
you know, internet don't know if it's true, but it
could happen. It could maximum HBO overdrive.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
As long as you get Emilio Estevez, you're golden. What
about HBO box off two point zero colon the reckoning.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I thought you were going somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Final reckoning, that'll be the end.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah, I thought you were going with your favorite colon
electric boogaloo.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I mean that's HBO two colon electric boogloo. I mean
you you can't go wrong if you've got two in
the title. There's a lot of good I mean, there's
a lot of good ones. You have any other good ones?
They all have some potential.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I I don't have any other great ones. I think
probably the best one would just be you know, HBO
would be a good one.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I don't know, you're crazy, that's just crazy talkm right.
But that's the beauty of it is that listen, the
sky's a limit. You just got to keep HBO in
the name. You gotta in some way. You notice all
of them except for WB plus, which the B is silent,
(24:00):
that's the only one that didn't have HBO in the name.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, So even if you add a bunch of crap
around it. At least it still has HBO. Right, it's
got to be the central piece of the puzzle. And
this goes for anybody, right, I think this goes for
anybody who's branding. I mean, you know, you don't get
rid of the thing that is the core of your business,
what everyone enjoys. Just don't get rid of that. Yeah,
(24:25):
And I think that's basically our takeaway from today. Don't
overlook what you got, you know, don't get so fixated
looking at the other side of the fence that you
miss the pile of gold that you're sitting on. As
the old slogan goes, it's not TV, it's HBO. So
why are you trying to just be TV?
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Oh? I love what you did there. You brought it back.
You brought it back to some gold nuggets human wisdom
from HBO.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
I mean, yeah, I can also sing. You know, they
used to use that Tina Turner song in some of
their marketing. I think it was Tina Turner. Y're simply
the best? Do you remember that?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah? Brings back so many memories. It was a simpler time.
It was like, you know, innocence and also a little
bit of that you know, like teenage. Oh, my parents
aren't home, I can watch Real Sex late at night.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
I learned some stuff that I should not be learning about,
probably at my age, but that's okay.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, I'm gonna stay up. I'm gonna watch.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Predator, mm hmm, Commando, Predator, a lot of arnold movies.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Real Sex is gonna be on afterwards. It's gonna be
the best night of my life.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah. So, well, hopefully you enjoyed this, and I'm sure
everyone has. We've heard from listeners they were confused at
the very beginning when we posted that episode about them
eliminating HBO from the name. Now, you probably have some
feelings on this, and maybe you're with us, maybe you're not,
maybe you didn't like HBO to begin with. We're sorry.
(26:01):
We are HBO kids though. As Shad said, so yeah,
feel free to send us your feedback. But that's it
for this episode of Speaking Human. You can find current
and past episodes of this glorious podcast on Speaking Human
dot com.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Great site. Go there all the time. We'll be back
in two weeks with another episode of Speaking Human. Catch
it in Humans, Speaking Human
Speaking Human Today. On Speaking Human, we cue the dramatic
music and rewind the tape as Warner Brothers brings HBO
back into the Max Mix was the name change of
Bold move or a branding blunder. Speaking Human.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to Speaking Human, where we simplify the world of
marketing for humans. I'm Shad calmly and with me is
my co host Patrick Jebber.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Welcome, Shad.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Welcome friend, Sir Patrick, Me and you. We have you know,
a few things in common. One of probably the most
important thing we have in common. We are both children
of HBO.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Hm hm, Yes, that is true. We've talked about it
on the cast before. We both grew up in a
world before HBO, which not a lot of people can
say that's true, but.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
You know, we were kids who were touched by HBO,
so it kind of made us cooler than a lot
of other people and gave us this unspoken bond where
we have things embedded in our brains, like the HBO
feature presentation hmmm, you know intro that they would play
before the movies that triggers something in us, like a
(01:31):
Pavlovian response where other people would be like, I don't
know what that is for us, that's automatically like, ah,
there it is.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, we all have them, right, the thing you remember
as a child, it just made an impact in your
life for some reason. It's like this was just television really.
I mean, we didn't realize it was making an impact,
but you saw it so many times that now looking back,
you go, ah, you know this familiar feeling and it's
(01:59):
a it's generally positive.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, oh yeah, definitely. So for us, you know, I
don't know how many what percent of the American population
grew up with a little bit of HBO in their lives.
We have, you know, we're connected. So if you're listening
and you're one of us, welcome. But let me take
you back Patrick and ask you some trivia questions about
(02:24):
HBO's early days of original programming. How do you feel
about that? Do you feel good about that?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
My track record on trivia lately has been failure after failure.
I get one right every maybe ten, So we'll see.
I don't know. I mean I feel like I remember
things from that time period, but then again, you know,
out of context, will I maybe not?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, I mean this is a mixed bag. I got
a few for you, so we'll see what happens. But
you know, you never know. You just got to lower
the bar on your expectations from trivia. I think a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, gonna win Jeopardy, but you know I have fun
doing it, right, I mean that's the idea.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, maybe you'll get on to Jeopardy. All right, So
a true Daily Devil here for your first question. HBO's
first ever series was Inside the NFL. This is a
sports show that launched in nineteen seventy seven. I think
it's still going. I'm not sure, maybe in some iteration.
(03:27):
But the network also launched this football set sitcom in
the nineteen eighties. Do you know what it is? Comedy
set in the world of football? Nineteen eighties?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Can you give me a hint on that one. It's
on the tip of my tongue, I think, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Can give you a few hints. So the title is,
you know, it's a football term. Starting this show, we
had oj Simpson was on it for a while. We'd
ogre from Revenge of the Nerds. If you remember that guy.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, and I literally remember this show. But I in
my head, like, I don't just escaping you, it's excaping me.
It's like right on the tip of my tongue.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Ran from nineteen eighty four to nineteen ninety one. It
also started Delta Burke for a while, which I didn't
remember who was designing women.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah, I remember all those people. Like, that's so crazy
to think, because I it's it's something that people I
don't think talk about today. But yeah, I can't. I
can't remember the name of it escapes me.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Well, it'll all come flooding back to you a minute.
The name of it is.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
First in ten, okay, Yeah, yeah, first and ten Okay, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Think they show some like you know, you know it
was HBO. They because they would swear and they'd have
like some locker room nudity or something like that.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, that was an early That was an early show.
Like yeah, I don't even know, like today you wouldn't
show kids of our age something like that, probably, but
because it it was so new and times were different
back then, we were watching stuff that you know, was
probably should have been rated r.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah. That was one of the joys of having HBO
in your household. You're getting to see a lot of
things you probably shouldn't see. Yeah, all right, next question though,
the Hitchhiker came before it. You might remember that show
on HBO. What other horror anthology series did HBO air
in the eighties and nineties.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Creep Show?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Not Creep Show. But you're on the right track. The
best hint I could give you is, oh, Tales from
the Crypt. There you go. Yeah, I know that's what
you're thinking of. Yeah, but similar it was. It was
like three different tales of you know, horror.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah it was. It was a little bit scary. It
was a little bit scary for you when you're a kid.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, all right. Though not HBO's first prison show. That
would be Maximum Security in nineteen eighty four. Produced by
Ron Howard. This nineteen ninety seven show kicked off HBO's
move into quality hour long dramas.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I'm sure I will know the name, but I think
ninety seven, you know, out of your timeframe, mm hmmm hm.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
That was OZ.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, I remember the name of that show, and I
remember it being popular, But that was I'd never watch
an episode of that because it was kind of after
my you know, you're out of the house or whatever.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I remember an exciting time was I like moved into
a place after college and they had like free HBO
for like a year.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Or something like that, and I was like, yes, it's
the best. I'm back baby, wow, live in the high life.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Man. All Right, I got one more for you. Let's
see if you can finish strong here. Okay, can you
name one of the after midnight sex focused docuseries HBO
aired in the nineties and early two thousands. There were multiple,
You just have to name one.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I mean the one that I'm thinking about was the
one where they had like people who had like sex
fetishes and stuff like that, and it was real sex.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Real sex. Yeah, we will accept. I also would have
taken taxicab confessions or cat house real sex. I think
had like you know, there was like real sex twenty five.
So they did it like a new version every year.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
It wasn't really scripted, right, it was. It was very
like raw. It was like they were interviews and they
would interview people and then they would like show scenes
from their like real life.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
This was the good thing about like early HBO. They
were just trying things. They were not afraid to like
kind of throw things out there, and.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
They had the ability to do that. There weren't the
restrictions that regular cable had.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, they didn't have the limitations that some of the
networks or even the cable networks did.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
So in case you didn't get it by now from
all the trivia we've gone through, we're talking about HBO today.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
HBO in the news lately a little bit, a little
bit yep of.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Their own making, mm hmm. But we thought it was
a good time to talk about them and some of
the big news.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Ah, yes, oh yes. HBO Home Box Office, what started
as a way to bring these uncut movies into your
home without commercials, eventually became the prestige TV powerhouse, right.
I mean, that's kind of what we're talking about at
the beginning there, with like the shows that nobody else
(08:42):
was doing. But we're also talking about shows like The Sopranos,
Game of Thrones succession, which are you know, fairly recent.
But at its peak, HBO wasn't just a channel, it
was a cultural force. Then came the streaming era. First
there was HBO Go for subscribers and HBO Now for
(09:05):
the chord cutters like us, you know, we were chord cutters,
shan yep. Then came HBO Max, which combined HBO with
a wider Warner Brothers Catalog, Cinemax, and then they dropped
the HBO from HBO Max and just went with Max.
Why because apparently clarity is overrated, so everybody knows HBO anyway,
(09:28):
Warner Brothers Discovery, which is the conglomerate that owns it,
is putting HBO back in Max. So it's going to
be HBO Max again, not officially in the name, but
very much in the branding. So that raises the obvious question,
which is is this a good idea good or bad move?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Good or bad move. It's a good move, it's also
kind of a duh move, and I guess a better
late than never move. They obviously, it seems to me,
didn't realize the value of what they had. You know,
they undervalued the HBO brand where they're just like, ah,
we can strike this out. We can just kind of
tuck it away. We don't really need to put it front.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
And center, which is weird, right, Let's just say that
up front. That's weird that they didn't recognize that.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Super weird. And I would say maybe they're not good
at business.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Right, I mean yeah, and I mean we're not geniuses
over here, We're not claiming to be like, oh, we're
these gurus who know stuff that nobody else knows. I mean,
I think everyone probably said the same thing, like why
did they do that?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, I think it's pretty straightforward. People are like HBO
is what people know. Keep HBO front and center, So
it seems pretty obvious. So I guess the fact that
now they kind of see the light a little bit
is a good thing, even though, you know, probably later
than it should be.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I look at this though, and I'm like, the news
probably says more about what's going on with streaming than
it actually does. Maybe Warner Brothers, Discovery or even HBO.
You know, I think a couple of years ago, they're like,
we're gonna be Netflix, We're gonna be this streaming service.
We're shoving all this stuff in here. It's kind of
been these past years like the gold rush streaming. You know,
(11:18):
everybody wants to be this thing. Everybody wants to be
the streamer and like pile on the subscribers. This seems
to me like Warner Brothers is backing away from that,
or like maybe realizing this isn't where the gold is
and they're figuring out like HBO and the content itself
is probably where we're gonna find our gold. Rather than
being the platform that everybody comes to. We can like
(11:41):
have HBO the quality content. We can sell out the
content if we need to, or put it on other platforms,
which they've done because it's been popping up on Netflix.
I think that's kind of more the realization here than
them actually being like, oh, HBO people people are into that.
Seems like they've kind of come back around one as
a brand and as a content creator because they seem
(12:03):
to be cranking that out more than they were a
year ago too.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
But I mean it has literally been two years. It's
not very long.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, you know, it's a full reversal. They're just kind
of like going back to the exact thing that obviously
probably shouldn't have changed in the first place. Even looking
at you know, reading through their press release, looking at
some of the language and the way they talk about it,
they kind of try to spin it a little bit.
You know. This evolution has also been influenced by changing
(12:33):
consumer needs, has it, And the fact that no consumer
today is saying they want more content, but most consumers
are saying they want better content. That's I think a
little bit what I was talking about. They're more realizing, Okay,
it's not about just like piling discovery and everything in
there and making it max with other services, filling the
(12:55):
more basic needs with volume. WBD has clearly distinct wished
itself through its quality and distinct stories, and no brand
has done that better and more consistently over fifty plus
years than HBO.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
There's a longevity to it. There is equity equity in
that name, positive equity, not negative equity. There's positive equity
in that name. You don't just blow that off. I
guess you don't just blow it off is a statement
that is incorrect in this case because they just blew
it off originally, you know, But I mean you shouldn't
(13:32):
do it.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, which again seems like super obvious, but was not
obvious to them. Maybe after they lost eleven billion dollars
last year they're like, well, maybe we should uh think
about this HBO thing a little more. But I give
them a little credit for going back to something they changed.
You know, it takes a little it takes a little
bit of stones to eat it publicly like that, to
(13:54):
just say all right, we were wrong, we shouldn't have
changed in the first place. Not many brands to do that.
I think most would like tweak it in a slightly
different way, you know, Max plus HBO or try to
do something like that, to just steer it away from that.
But they're just like, now we're going back. You know,
even that playful marketing where it's like how does it go?
(14:15):
It's like same app, new ish name.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, it does, it does take. It does take some goal.
It is also one of those things is completely avoidable,
you know what I mean, Like they could have avoided
this if they'd maybe done a focus group or asked us,
we would have told them. We would have told them
it was a bad idea. So what do you think, like,
in terms of all time brand reversals, does it crack
(14:40):
your top ten? If we were to make let's say Quickster.
If you remember Netflix and Quickster, when Quickster was going
to be there with let's say that's number one, is
that number one?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I think it's probably a pretty clear number one. When
I think about brands being like, we're gonna do this
thing and then they're like, whoa, I guess we're not
gonna do this thing. I think Quickster takes the top
spot if you're thinking about that.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Right, Yeah, they changed course on that quicker than the
name itself. Before they even finished saying the name, they
were like, uh, just kidding.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
They released it on the Internet and immediately regretted it.
It was like waking up the next day after, you know,
a drunken night, and they're like, oh god, what have
we done?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
The Internet still in its youth of trolling brands. But man,
they did not take that lightly.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
So yeah, where does this one fall? Obviously it's not
QUICKSTERR level. It's a good brand about face, you know,
it's a fun one. I mean, my first reaction when
you shared this with me was, you know, I was like,
oh my god. No, they didn't do it. They didn't
go back.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
But here's the thing with this, they kind of did
it of their own volition.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
It wasn't one of those things where people were like rioting.
It wasn't like a quick star where like the crowd
reaction was so bad it forced them into it. They
kind of chose the move, you know, it was like
new Coke. They didn't put it out there and then
people were like so angry with them they had to
change it. They did it because they tried something else
it wasn't quite working, or maybe they're like HBO people
(16:20):
kind of like that. I don't know why they did it,
but they made this choice on their own. So for
that reason, it doesn't rank as high as some of
these other things, but maybe like a number ten because
it still is pretty funny. What do you think?
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I agree it's not quick star level because that was epic,
you know, but it's up there. You know. It's like
they walked a room and said, let's make the name simpler,
which all branding people love to do. You know, let's
cut everything away that's not necessary. But you know, then
you realize you accidentally deleted the part that people really
(16:54):
care about.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
It is funny. You can imagine the meeting where they're
like on a board they have like HBO max and
they're like, we need we need to simplify and make
it easy. Which words should we cut? Yeah, they're like,
it's got to be HBO.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I mean, you know, nobody knows what that is. It's
an acronym. Just do you think that that was a
room full of people who didn't grow up on HBO?
That's what I feel like.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Maybe there probably was not one HBO kid in the room.
There are probably a lot of Discovery kids.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Yeah, because it seems that way. And we talked about
this in the show. When they changed the name, we
were kind of confused by it then if I remember correctly,
and I still go back to this, like if if
you had any knowledge of HBO, maybe it's because we
grew up on it.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
No, that's not it. Because they had the Sopranos and
Game of you know, all these shows later that are
very associated with the HBO brand that made it super strong,
you know, in these later years. So it's not just that.
It's not just like the history or anything like that.
It's built this like Prestige TV, this era that we're
(18:03):
in now, we were in I don't know where we
are exactly with TV, but I mean it kickstarted the
whole thing. So it's got a very strong reputation with
streaming and with streaming series. Yeah, well let's think about that.
Let's do a little mind thundering.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I love mind thundering.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Potential future names for HBO Max because we know it's
going to change. We know this isn't gonna last forever, right.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah, they're gonna play the branding hokey pokey if you will. So, yeah,
I expect to see some different names in the future.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
So let's let's help them out. Let's throw throw around
some ideas here. What about if they want to keep
the same thing but switch it up a little bit.
Do you think they could go with HBO to the max?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Hmmm yeah, yeah, like Cradle to the Grave that movie?
Remember that movie?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Oh yeah with Stephen Sigall and yeah Dmax DX okay
DX I think it was DMX. Yeah that sounds right.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, no, I like that. I think you know, might
as well throw a two in there. What about HBO.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Ish related to their tagline now or their whatever you
want to call.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
That, Yeah, yeah, Or they could totally go way off
the reservation and do WB plus but the B is silent,
really confused people, Oh.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, that would get them. They could do h.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
WBO Oh yeah, whoa bo.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
It's some sort of treatment there, you know. Yeah, so
like the w's in or the WB maybe is in
parentheses or something.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Oh god, yeah, that would that would be People would
be so confused. They'd be like, what is this that
we're watching? What about Max with HBO inside?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Is that the full name or or is that just
how it how it looks?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
It would be Max with HBO inside and you could
do the little TM you know, kind of like intil inside, but.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
It's kind of like Max the one to watch for HBO,
but it's better. Yeah, it sounds like HBO is being
held prisoner though.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah, but it has like a little sound like didn't
you know isn't that the intel?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah? What do you think of HBO beyond? There's one? Hmmm,
like pretty standard? Right, yeah, but here's another one. I
don't know if this is a Warner Brothers movie or
not HBO Beyond Thunderdome.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Oh yeah, no, I like that? Is that? Is that
a Warner Brothers movie?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I don't know. I don't think.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
I don't. It might not be Studio behind Mad Max
Beyond Thunderdome Warner Brothers. It is Warner Brothers road Show
Film Distributors road shows the animation at the beginning. So
I didn't think it was Warner Brothers. But yeah, good
call on that. So that could work HBO Beyond Thunderdome
(21:11):
Thunderdome or just HBO Thunderdome.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Kill It. That'd be good.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
You could do stream the streaming formerly known as Max.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
We always like the Prince treatment.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, they have like just a symbol.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, an unpronounceable symbol.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah. People be like, oh, that's the streaming formally known
as Max or HBO Max or whatever.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
What if they want to take it up a notch? Right?
Want I show people how extreme they are? Hboverdrive?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Oh I like that, so the O here's here's.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Another better version that they would like better Maximum HB
Overdrive Max.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
You got your HBO Can it have a Melio Estevez
as the I mean it has to and there has.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
To be trucks, some sort of trucks smashing into it.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah, the truck with the goblin face. They didn't have
like a like a green goblin.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah face on Maximum Overdrive? Is that a Warner Brothers move?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I mean, is it?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
I don't know, let's find out.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
If it is, they might as well just call it
quits now on HBO Max.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Do you know De Laurentis production, Well, I'm sure they
could buy it.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
They could buy the rights that Warner Brothers got cash.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Oh this is saying. Maximum Overdrive was directed by Stephen King,
produced by Dina de Laurentis, distributed by Warner Brothers. Oh,
you know, internet don't know if it's true, but it
could happen. It could maximum HBO overdrive.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
As long as you get Emilio Estevez, you're golden. What
about HBO box off two point zero colon the reckoning.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I thought you were going somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Final reckoning, that'll be the end.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah, I thought you were going with your favorite colon
electric boogaloo.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I mean that's HBO two colon electric boogloo. I mean
you you can't go wrong if you've got two in
the title. There's a lot of good I mean, there's
a lot of good ones. You have any other good ones?
They all have some potential.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I I don't have any other great ones. I think
probably the best one would just be you know, HBO
would be a good one.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I don't know, you're crazy, that's just crazy talkm right.
But that's the beauty of it is that listen, the
sky's a limit. You just got to keep HBO in
the name. You gotta in some way. You notice all
of them except for WB plus, which the B is silent,
(24:00):
that's the only one that didn't have HBO in the name.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, So even if you add a bunch of crap
around it. At least it still has HBO. Right, it's
got to be the central piece of the puzzle. And
this goes for anybody, right, I think this goes for
anybody who's branding. I mean, you know, you don't get
rid of the thing that is the core of your business,
what everyone enjoys. Just don't get rid of that. Yeah,
(24:25):
And I think that's basically our takeaway from today. Don't
overlook what you got, you know, don't get so fixated
looking at the other side of the fence that you
miss the pile of gold that you're sitting on. As
the old slogan goes, it's not TV, it's HBO. So
why are you trying to just be TV?
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Oh? I love what you did there. You brought it back.
You brought it back to some gold nuggets human wisdom
from HBO.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
I mean, yeah, I can also sing. You know, they
used to use that Tina Turner song in some of
their marketing. I think it was Tina Turner. Y're simply
the best? Do you remember that?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah? Brings back so many memories. It was a simpler time.
It was like, you know, innocence and also a little
bit of that you know, like teenage. Oh, my parents
aren't home, I can watch Real Sex late at night.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
I learned some stuff that I should not be learning about,
probably at my age, but that's okay.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, I'm gonna stay up. I'm gonna watch.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Predator, mm hmm, Commando, Predator, a lot of arnold movies.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Real Sex is gonna be on afterwards. It's gonna be
the best night of my life.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah. So, well, hopefully you enjoyed this, and I'm sure
everyone has. We've heard from listeners they were confused at
the very beginning when we posted that episode about them
eliminating HBO from the name. Now, you probably have some
feelings on this, and maybe you're with us, maybe you're not,
maybe you didn't like HBO to begin with. We're sorry.
(26:01):
We are HBO kids though. As Shad said, so yeah,
feel free to send us your feedback. But that's it
for this episode of Speaking Human. You can find current
and past episodes of this glorious podcast on Speaking Human
dot com.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Great site. Go there all the time. We'll be back
in two weeks with another episode of Speaking Human. Catch
it in Humans, Speaking Human
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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.