March 28, 2025 • 29 mins
As warehouse operations grow more complex, organizations face increasing pressure to maintain process transparency, document systems effectively, and adapt to changing business needs.
In this special episode recorded live at LogiMAT 2025, guest host Christina Schühle (Head of Logistics Management Systems at Miebach) is joined by Philipp Wüst (Head Process Data Analyst) and Ben Pamperrien (SAP Solution Architect) from Westernacher Consulting to explore how SAP Signavio is being used to support end-to-end warehouse optimization.
They walk through the full lifecycle of an EWM implementation—from early project phases to post-go-live assessments—highlighting how process mining, modeling, and insights from Signavio can support better decision-making. The conversation also covers real-world challenges around data quality, system complexity, and cross-team collaboration.
Discussed in this episode:
In this special episode recorded live at LogiMAT 2025, guest host Christina Schühle (Head of Logistics Management Systems at Miebach) is joined by Philipp Wüst (Head Process Data Analyst) and Ben Pamperrien (SAP Solution Architect) from Westernacher Consulting to explore how SAP Signavio is being used to support end-to-end warehouse optimization.
They walk through the full lifecycle of an EWM implementation—from early project phases to post-go-live assessments—highlighting how process mining, modeling, and insights from Signavio can support better decision-making. The conversation also covers real-world challenges around data quality, system complexity, and cross-team collaboration.
Discussed in this episode:
- The difference between Signavio’s Process Insights and Process Intelligence modules
- Applying process mining during key project phases like Discover, Prepare, and Explore
- What a “Warehouse Health Check” involves—and when it’s worth doing
- Technical hurdles tied to legacy systems and slow data extraction
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to Speaking of Supply Chain, a meboch podcast.
This is a show for logistics professionals looking to learn
more about the latest innovations in supply chain. Each episode
will feature a conversation on topics such as mitigating supply
chain disruption and reducing risk, current automation trends, sustainability initiatives,
and more. Let's dive right in.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hello, and welcome to Speaking of Supply Chain, where we
explore trends, current events, and innovations impacting the logistics and
supply chain industries. I'm your host, Ellen Wood. Process optimization
isn't just theory, it's real rold action. Join us as
we sit down with my guest host, Christina Schulea at
Logimat to explore how SAP Signavio supports smarter decisions at
(00:52):
every project phase. You'll hear firsthand use cases, honest insights
about common implementation hurdles, and a warehouse health chain that's
redefining what long term success can look like. If you're
ready to connect design with reality, this one's for you.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
So Philip, Day three of Logimat, it's been exhausting, at
least we're sitting doing.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
This podcast finally I'm sitting.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yes, sir, Yeah, We've seen a lot of different things here,
but I think one of the most interesting things, obviously
is signavio. So yeah, so let's talk a little bit
about process optimization, warehouse optimization, and sap zignavio. And we've
brought some or you have brought some very interesting use cases,
(01:40):
but I think before we dive into the use cases,
let's talk a little bit about what is signavio and
what can it do for you.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
First of all, I want to say thank you for
having me, thank you that I'm allowed to sit. I've
been standing for three days at my feet hurt, but
thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Okay, So tell us a little bit about signavio before
we dive into any use cases and what what it
can do for.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
If you, if you remember the logo that I brought,
that I opened up with, like you have this circle.
And I always always when I when I talk about
process analysis and when I try to lean into okay,
what is actually signavio, I always have to define what's
the vocabulary? Like what are we talking about? Because each
of these modules is so different in its use case
(02:32):
and so different in expectations that I always have to
they are. They are all basically called signavio signo, but
they always do so different things. And that's why I
spent the first ten minutes defining, Okay, what is Signavio,
what are we talking about, and how can it help?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Sounds perfect?
Speaker 4 (02:54):
So yeah, you basically the circle that I that I
open up with, and I keep calling it a circle.
I know it's a keyhole. It's supposed to be a keyhole.
The circle is then defined in like your you have
your free categories, your your outside areas, and they all
gather in the middle you. You have your collaboration hub.
(03:16):
It's like your your entry point to to think now
you when you log in, you you land on the
collaboration hub. You land on the first page of your
of your process house, and then you can dive into
the into each module and get to where you want
to be. The modules are categorized as you have your
(03:38):
modeling and your process management, which is where signal you're started.
You have your technical analysis things. You have your process insights,
process intelligence which where I feel at home where you
do the process analysis what we talked about earlier. And
you have your process covenance things like when you have
your system house set up, and you have your you
(04:00):
are happy with the value chains, with the BP menst
you define, then you can define workflows on Okay, what
happens when I want to make changes? How many eyes
do where I need to have the things approved?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Sounds good? So, and then can you elaborate a little
bit on the process analysis, because I think that's kind
of what we focus here. One thing that I had,
I admit I had a little difficulty to understand in
the beginning was the difference between insights and intelligence. And
I built this little bridge for me. So insights is
(04:37):
when you analyze all the data that is inside of SAP,
but you don't necessarily have to have the whole suite
of SAP to make use of signavio, right, so you
can also you can also pull in data from other systems,
and that's when process intelligence comes to place, comes into play.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
Right.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
So exactly, the signavio wasn't very useful in its naming
because insights and intelligence they are roughly the same vocabulary.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
Right, Your bridge is actually very useful.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Like, as long as you're moving in SAP standard content,
process insights is.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Your go to.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
It gives you your broad overview Okay, how is my
SAP system performing, How is my e C c AS
for E W M t M.
Speaker 5 (05:29):
How are they how are they doing?
Speaker 4 (05:33):
How are how good is our company in SAP standard
And maybe if you're if you're transforming, like process insights
gives you an analysis on which features you use and
which features are interesting, and maybe you want to get
some insights. Okay, in my ECC I'm doing DCN DSE
transaction codes, and then it can tell you, okay, look
(05:54):
at these as four features that maybe you should start
investigating if you are on that journey, if you want
to step outside s A P or if you want
to start digging deeper instead of just having the broad overview,
and you want to like you you found your pain points,
you found your issues that you want to tackle. Then
(06:15):
you come with process intelligence and you can either plug
it into the process insides data like you don't you
don't need a secondary data trans extraction feature. You can
just plug pros intelligence on process insights and then use
that data to drill deeper. Or you can do like
a true mining where you have your data extraction which
(06:40):
is in the same network as your ecc as for
whatever and basically extract the process data that you want
to look at, and then you can define the rules
and the KPIs the metrics or your or your scripts.
You can define yourself with process insights. You're stuck with
what you get Like it's a click of a button.
(07:01):
It's super easy, but you're stuck with pros intelligence. It
takes a few days to get set up, but then
you can actually use it the way you need it.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Okay, that's interesting. So so bottom line is you don't
need to have the full SAP suite to make use
of this. You could have an external warehouse control system
and you could have other things plugging in and as
long as you can access the data, you can analyze
that data as well.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
To analyze process data, you basically only need an event lock.
An event loock is you have your events that are
taking part like opening a sales document, and that event
has a time stamp and as long as we have
that connection, we can analyze it. Okay, and if that's
an SAP or if that's another system.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Sounds good. So Ben, let's talk about the first use
case where you see big benefits of of using signavio.
Speaker 6 (08:02):
Sure, well, first use case for us is a typical
sap E WM implementation full implementation cycle. So we're going
from discover to in the end to go life before
we dive deep into the different stages or phases of
a project, maybe just you know, to give a hint
(08:24):
on what kind of problems s ap zignavio solves for
WM projects. It's like things or problems that happen during
a project which no one really talks about, but which
are common in every project. Especially we as a consultancy
who do a lot of these projects, notice them basically
in every project, things like, you know, how you get data,
(08:47):
how you can prepare the data to analyze it to
get a result. And then also stuff like documentation, documentation
and every project you know, it's always a it's always
pain let's say it like that. And then yeah, as
the last point is changes to for example, documentation and design,
how do you get it back into the original design.
(09:10):
So all of these things are solved by sapsic navio
or at least supported. This is why you know, for
projects it's extremely useful. The only problem or the fact
that I see today is that since there's at least
according to my knowledge, nothing similar or a combination of
(09:34):
products that are similar to SAPSG navio or that solves
the same problems. It's still something new, but the problem
and the use cases are there. It's you know, it
solved the problems and the use cases that are there.
But since it is new and no one really done
it before, using sapsic navio still feels like a luxury
for a project. So you can do it, but you
(09:57):
don't need to do it. You can work around it somehow.
But I think if more companies will using now you
in the future, and more companies will recognize the what
is useful about SAPSG now You, then it will get
or it will move from a can use it to
a must use it to stay you know, or to
(10:21):
to execute project SAP projects with a lot of quality
and small durations. But yeah, that's just as a as
an introduction to the to the project phases themselves.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Okay, great, So if we look at.
Speaker 6 (10:37):
The different phases in the project, you know, for a
need to BM project, at least start off with a
discover phase where you try to well get as much
data from the from the customer as possible. You try
to get a feel for what the customer wants to
solve and you prepare organization data, et cetera. Here you're
(11:00):
the key fact where s appeasing now you can help
is getting data data mining, because usually we would have
to get that data from customer documentation and interviews. Getting
that data directly from the system is very helpful, especially
since the data is also modeled in a good way
so you can analyze it very quickly and easily.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Would you say that's the most elaborate phase in the
in the entire circle, or well, it sounds like a
lot of work getting this data together, is it, or
is that just my impression?
Speaker 6 (11:32):
Well, this data for a discover phase is usually more
on a high level, so it's actually a good fact
that you brought it up. Where this gets into well
more details is the next two phases prepare and explore.
So yeah, discover is like, well a first step in
a project you just you know, try to get a
feeling for what the customer has.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
But yeah, I mean second phase would be.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
Prepare phase where it gets a little bit more detailed.
This is usually based on the goal to define a scope.
And if you want to have a scope, you need
to have the s is data prepared and you need
to define at least the way or the goal that
you want to achieve for your warehouse. Here also again
(12:24):
we can use the possibilities of sapsic Naviga to get
data but also start and model data in sapsgnawvio.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
So can I imagine it like I just I have
all this data and I just kind of push a
button and then the model is created.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
For me or kind of. That's like at least the
first step.
Speaker 6 (12:47):
So usually you know when you do that, when you
get the data from signavio, and then you can create
process flows documentation in signavio.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
It will be a good start.
Speaker 6 (12:59):
But you know there's always changes or process specifics that
you cannot see in the system. So what you would
have to do is take these processes and then you know,
detail them in interviews with customers.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Right, because I'm only seeing the traces and the system,
and I'm not seeing anything that physically happens or who
does it or when is it done?
Speaker 6 (13:26):
Okay, you know, the system is especially if you come
from a legacy.
Speaker 5 (13:31):
System, what is in the system is one thing and.
Speaker 6 (13:34):
Then what actually happens physically in reality is a different thing.
So this is why you have to check them moving
on in our project faces would be the explore phase
where we are moving on from a scope and prepared
definition to really define the two B processes in detail.
(13:56):
Here again, we can use the s IS processes that
we created earlier as a baseline for you know, how
the warehouse, how the processes in the warehouse are going
to look in the future. And then as a second step,
we would.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
Model these two B processes.
Speaker 6 (14:12):
And usually what we like to do when we do
WM projects, especially for form projects and warehouses, we don't
just you know, create a to be process and then
say all right, that's the it concept, that's where we
want to go. We use like a last step in
the explore phase too, basically break our own design, you know, soundest, Yeah,
(14:39):
we basically try to find way too. You know, we
had ideas, we had a design, but you cannot really
be sure that your design works if you you know, don't.
Speaker 5 (14:49):
Try to break it in the end. Okay, So you're
you know.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Basically it's kind of you challenge it or you test it.
Speaker 6 (14:56):
Okay, yes, okay, I see you played Devil's Advocate and
then just you know, try to be more safe and
maybe change some things that you designed. In the beginning,
and that might have changed when you came to the
end of the design.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Okay, reminds me of system testing, and then you you
enter all kinds of weird stuff that you shouldn't be
enter and see what happens.
Speaker 6 (15:18):
Exactly morey on a theory level. So but yeah, it's
something similar, Okay, I understood. Yeah, And then I think,
you know, when we have this discover, prepare, and explore,
you are, like with getting data and modeling data, you
are you have a good baseline for the next phase,
(15:38):
which is the realized face. Where As the name suggests,
we realize what we designed earlier and implement the solution
in the system, customizing of different storage types, the overall
warehouse layout, different process steps, and then also customer or
custom developments for specific needs of the warehouse. Now, when
(15:59):
you do that in an WM project, what always happens
is that when the customer can actually you know, get
a look and feel for the system and do small
functional tests or we do small functional tests, we often
realize that at this stage there will be changes to
the original design. Because designers on a theoretical level and
(16:22):
then you actually see it in the system. Sometimes you know,
that's not coherent. So what we need here from SPC
NOWVIO is a way to get all of these changes
back into the original design where you know the different
modules of SPCC now you can help us to achieve
that goal faster and more easy. Okay, well, I think
(16:45):
from a discovered to realize point, that's about it. In
the last two phases, sapsing now you can help, but
it's not that strong. The last two phases would be
deployed where we have usually like user acceptance tests where
we prepare the goal life and you know, if you
have like automation, you also try to do system integration
(17:07):
testing where you you know, combine different systems together and
then you know, once you have the final confirmation that
the system works as expected, you you know, let the
warehouse become reality and have the goal life, which would
be the last phase to run phase where we have
the go life and then also a small goal life
(17:29):
support phase afterwards for two weeks for example. And yeah,
as I said, in these two phases, we usually see
the advantages of sapsing now vi're from the earlier stages
because if you try to do user acceptance test or
even a goal life training you know, for your users,
it gets much more or much more efficient and easy
(17:53):
if you have a proper documentation, if you build your
solution on existing data, and you can actually you.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Know, benefit from all that has been previously created. And okay,
I see, okay, very interesting.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
And that's I mean, that would show a typical WM
project and the you know, the possibilities that you have
with spz Navia for these and I think it is
a good use case to show and explain customers on
how they can get advantages out of SPC.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Yeah, thank you very much. This was a very detailed
description of all the phases and I think it is
now this was this was great so much for the
implementation of it and using Zignavio. But we also have
another use case which I think is just as interesting
for our customers because this once you have it up
(18:49):
and running, you're not necessarily done yet.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
You brought the example of the e w M health Check.
I really like this example and the name of it.
So yeah, let's talk about the health check.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
Sure.
Speaker 6 (19:08):
So yeah, as you said, we have like a spot
consulting solution that we call the EOBM Warehouse health Check
and same you know, as we talked before, same as
going to a doctor. You go to a doctor if
either you feel pain, if something goes really wrong, or
as we you know, usually suggest you go to the
(19:30):
doctor on a regular basis for a check exactly to
be sure that nothing happened.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
You know. Now, if we, you know, put that to.
Speaker 6 (19:42):
The concept of warehouses or EOBM, you would have, for example,
a project that ended goal life is done, and now
you want to be sure and identify if the expected
goals were achieved. So the warehouse actually does what you want.
It creates the numbers that you want to have and
(20:03):
everything works as expected, and whether.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
You follow the standard process just as you as you
imagined you.
Speaker 6 (20:11):
Would exactly if we as a consultancy together with the partner,
that everything the right way, let's say it like that,
and as I said, that makes sense, same as a
doctor if something is not right and if everything seems
fine and you just want to get a confirmation that
it is fine.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
But it would also make sense. Let's say if your
your business changes or you're I don't know, out of
a sudden, you're shipping way more e commerce orders and yeah,
your your your volumes are are different, et cetera. You
could use this to make sure that everything is still
(20:52):
set up in the best way.
Speaker 6 (20:56):
I mean, if you know, if if a company grows,
they say, somehow have to you know, I have to
check that everything, every process that they created in the
warehouse still works as expected with the new volume and data.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
So yeah, good point.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah right, I like this. So how often should you
go to the doctor?
Speaker 6 (21:11):
Well, let's not use this example because I'm not a doctor.
Usually what we well suggest this depends on what you
did before. If you had a big project before, try
and do it maybe six months even ten months after
implementation was completed. If you're already running a warehouse for
(21:34):
a longer time, you know, definitely if you see something
goes wrong or on a regular basis, maybe once every
two years. Yeah, this is what we usually suggest to customers.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Okay, thank you very much for this. Yeah, thank you,
detailed description and I think it was very useful.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
Happy to help.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Let's let's see how many customers as we can convince
to to do a health check. And yes, good luck
in the future. And I'm very I'm looking forward to
speaking about any use cases and references and spaghetti plates
that you untangled. Where you made the process look lean
(22:19):
and clean again.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
So, now that we learned about the theoretical approach and
the different steps that you that you go through during
this process, where do you see the biggest challenges and
the biddle the biggest hurdles that you need to overcome
in your projects.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
Well, if you look at reality, you know, at e
WM project or implementation projects, as I said in the beginning,
the problems that we can solve with s a PC.
Now you you know, the customers are also we usually
you know, don't don't focus on these on these problems.
It would be things like the data that you get
(23:02):
from either the customer or the system that is always
you know, problematic because a lot of the time, the
the timelines and deadlines in a project are tight. So
if you need to prepare information, or if you need
to get information as a customer from your colleagues and
(23:22):
so on, and you're running low on time you hit
a deadline, then at some point you don't really focus
on good results of that information anymore. So you know,
just you know, be quick about it, get some information,
just push it over to the consultancy and then we're good.
We as a consultancy base our whole design on the
(23:43):
information that we get.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
So we actually need good exact quality of data otherwise
it makes perfect sense, right, I mean, this is.
Speaker 6 (23:51):
Why it makes sense to focus on this topic and
you know, get support from signal early on and yeah,
but then basically what we get from that data, what
we create as a result, documentation is you know, I
think a lot of people who have done SEP projects
in every module can agree is also, you know, a
(24:13):
thing that I think projects should focus on more in
the future, because documentation is the baseline for a lot
of phaces and things that you do in a project.
Let it be testing, let it be training, or just
you know, in general, if you want to find something,
find some information about the development, you need a good documentation.
(24:34):
And usually without SAPSIC, Novio customers know they have to
document and that's it.
Speaker 5 (24:42):
You know.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
We try to help them in the beginning and try
to set up a strategy for documentation, but there's not
really a focus on it. And if you use SAPSIC
now you don't really need to focus on it because
the system does it for you and it's a great
baseline for everything you know that comes afterwards. So these
two things you know, are in my opinion, problems that
(25:05):
do occur in every project, but which need definitely need
more focus.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Okay, so what do you think are typical challenges when
you first start a project and you dive into the
process analysis.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
And that's a very good question because actually I had
that one in one of my last projects, because, like usually,
the main issue is that when when doing a Signalire project,
it sounds a lot like a business topic because you
have your processes, you want to model them, you want
to put put your center of excellence, you want to
build that up. But for the process analysis, when it's
(25:41):
a it's a data topic, right, you need to invoive
it very early. And we had to issue that. It
was like the last person to get the information. Okay,
we want to install new features here, we need an extractor.
That extractor needs to be connected to our ECC, which
raised a lot of red flags. They were like, we
have to we have to send tickets, we have to
(26:05):
build servers, we have to install things. So you need
to really reach out to it to include them early,
very very early, to.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Let them know about the technical needs that you have
exactly exactly.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Then one of the issues. It depends really on the
age of the system. Like we had a customer who's
in a pre phase four AS four, Like they wanted
to understand what are they doing currently and where do
they need to improve before they can start the transformation.
So they had an ECC. ECC is okay, but that
(26:41):
ECC was running on an Oracle database, which is like
the last update they installed was ten years ago. The
data extraction for process intelligence runs on ESQL scripts. The
Oracle database did not like Western Acher with the ESQUAL scripts,
like they destroyed it, and the extraction scripts, which are
(27:06):
supposed to run for like three hours, suddenly took four days.
Speaker 5 (27:10):
Oh per table.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
And now we're talking about timelines again.
Speaker 5 (27:14):
Now we're talking time exactly.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
In the usual order to cash, you were looking at
like twenty tables with big your your sales ordered tables,
and they take forever. And if you suddenly want extractions
running for like fifteen seventeen days and you have your
workshop scheduled, your ESS's workshops in like three weeks, you
(27:38):
start to.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Sweat, Okay, So you have to pretty much take into
consideration where you're pulling data from and kind of incorporate
this into the timeline that there could be also technical
struggles that I would not make it as easy as
it sounds when we just talked about.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
This exactly and ever since then, I started as the
customers what their database is running on? Okay, I want
to prepare them. If it's OURCA, maybe schedule four weeks longer.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Good, that's good insights here inside haha intelligence. Yeah, thanks
for sharing. You're welcome, all right, Well, thank you very much, Philip,
Thank you very much, Ben for joining me in this
podcast here. I really enjoyed this. I'm looking forward to
another one. Thank you very much for listening, Thanks for
(28:31):
watching this, and talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
That brings us to the end of this episode. Some
great insights today into warehouse process optimization. Thank you so
much to Christina and our guests from Westernoker for sharing
their amazing insights from the show floor at Logimat this year.
I'm sure there are many listeners out there who found
this discussion hugely beneficial. If you have a suggestion for
(29:01):
a topic, or I would like to be a guest
on the show, we'd love to hear from you. Contact
me at podcast at mebok dot com at any time.
As always, Thank you for listening to Speaking of Supply Chain.
If you've enjoyed our show, please rate and review us
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You're listening to Speaking of Supply Chain, a meboch podcast.
This is a show for logistics professionals looking to learn
more about the latest innovations in supply chain. Each episode
will feature a conversation on topics such as mitigating supply
chain disruption and reducing risk, current automation trends, sustainability initiatives,
and more. Let's dive right in.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hello, and welcome to Speaking of Supply Chain, where we
explore trends, current events, and innovations impacting the logistics and
supply chain industries. I'm your host, Ellen Wood. Process optimization
isn't just theory, it's real rold action. Join us as
we sit down with my guest host, Christina Schulea at
Logimat to explore how SAP Signavio supports smarter decisions at
(00:52):
every project phase. You'll hear firsthand use cases, honest insights
about common implementation hurdles, and a warehouse health chain that's
redefining what long term success can look like. If you're
ready to connect design with reality, this one's for you.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
So Philip, Day three of Logimat, it's been exhausting, at
least we're sitting doing.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
This podcast finally I'm sitting.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yes, sir, Yeah, We've seen a lot of different things here,
but I think one of the most interesting things, obviously
is signavio. So yeah, so let's talk a little bit
about process optimization, warehouse optimization, and sap zignavio. And we've
brought some or you have brought some very interesting use cases,
(01:40):
but I think before we dive into the use cases,
let's talk a little bit about what is signavio and
what can it do for you.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
First of all, I want to say thank you for
having me, thank you that I'm allowed to sit. I've
been standing for three days at my feet hurt, but
thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Okay, So tell us a little bit about signavio before
we dive into any use cases and what what it
can do for.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
If you, if you remember the logo that I brought,
that I opened up with, like you have this circle.
And I always always when I when I talk about
process analysis and when I try to lean into okay,
what is actually signavio, I always have to define what's
the vocabulary? Like what are we talking about? Because each
of these modules is so different in its use case
(02:32):
and so different in expectations that I always have to
they are. They are all basically called signavio signo, but
they always do so different things. And that's why I
spent the first ten minutes defining, Okay, what is Signavio,
what are we talking about, and how can it help?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Sounds perfect?
Speaker 4 (02:54):
So yeah, you basically the circle that I that I
open up with, and I keep calling it a circle.
I know it's a keyhole. It's supposed to be a keyhole.
The circle is then defined in like your you have
your free categories, your your outside areas, and they all
gather in the middle you. You have your collaboration hub.
(03:16):
It's like your your entry point to to think now
you when you log in, you you land on the
collaboration hub. You land on the first page of your
of your process house, and then you can dive into
the into each module and get to where you want
to be. The modules are categorized as you have your
(03:38):
modeling and your process management, which is where signal you're started.
You have your technical analysis things. You have your process insights,
process intelligence which where I feel at home where you
do the process analysis what we talked about earlier. And
you have your process covenance things like when you have
your system house set up, and you have your you
(04:00):
are happy with the value chains, with the BP menst
you define, then you can define workflows on Okay, what
happens when I want to make changes? How many eyes
do where I need to have the things approved?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Sounds good? So, and then can you elaborate a little
bit on the process analysis, because I think that's kind
of what we focus here. One thing that I had,
I admit I had a little difficulty to understand in
the beginning was the difference between insights and intelligence. And
I built this little bridge for me. So insights is
(04:37):
when you analyze all the data that is inside of SAP,
but you don't necessarily have to have the whole suite
of SAP to make use of signavio, right, so you
can also you can also pull in data from other systems,
and that's when process intelligence comes to place, comes into play.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
Right.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
So exactly, the signavio wasn't very useful in its naming
because insights and intelligence they are roughly the same vocabulary.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
Right, Your bridge is actually very useful.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Like, as long as you're moving in SAP standard content,
process insights is.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Your go to.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
It gives you your broad overview Okay, how is my
SAP system performing, How is my e C c AS
for E W M t M.
Speaker 5 (05:29):
How are they how are they doing?
Speaker 4 (05:33):
How are how good is our company in SAP standard
And maybe if you're if you're transforming, like process insights
gives you an analysis on which features you use and
which features are interesting, and maybe you want to get
some insights. Okay, in my ECC I'm doing DCN DSE
transaction codes, and then it can tell you, okay, look
(05:54):
at these as four features that maybe you should start
investigating if you are on that journey, if you want
to step outside s A P or if you want
to start digging deeper instead of just having the broad overview,
and you want to like you you found your pain points,
you found your issues that you want to tackle. Then
(06:15):
you come with process intelligence and you can either plug
it into the process insides data like you don't you
don't need a secondary data trans extraction feature. You can
just plug pros intelligence on process insights and then use
that data to drill deeper. Or you can do like
a true mining where you have your data extraction which
(06:40):
is in the same network as your ecc as for
whatever and basically extract the process data that you want
to look at, and then you can define the rules
and the KPIs the metrics or your or your scripts.
You can define yourself with process insights. You're stuck with
what you get Like it's a click of a button.
(07:01):
It's super easy, but you're stuck with pros intelligence. It
takes a few days to get set up, but then
you can actually use it the way you need it.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Okay, that's interesting. So so bottom line is you don't
need to have the full SAP suite to make use
of this. You could have an external warehouse control system
and you could have other things plugging in and as
long as you can access the data, you can analyze
that data as well.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
To analyze process data, you basically only need an event lock.
An event loock is you have your events that are
taking part like opening a sales document, and that event
has a time stamp and as long as we have
that connection, we can analyze it. Okay, and if that's
an SAP or if that's another system.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Sounds good. So Ben, let's talk about the first use
case where you see big benefits of of using signavio.
Speaker 6 (08:02):
Sure, well, first use case for us is a typical
sap E WM implementation full implementation cycle. So we're going
from discover to in the end to go life before
we dive deep into the different stages or phases of
a project, maybe just you know, to give a hint
(08:24):
on what kind of problems s ap zignavio solves for
WM projects. It's like things or problems that happen during
a project which no one really talks about, but which
are common in every project. Especially we as a consultancy
who do a lot of these projects, notice them basically
in every project, things like, you know, how you get data,
(08:47):
how you can prepare the data to analyze it to
get a result. And then also stuff like documentation, documentation
and every project you know, it's always a it's always
pain let's say it like that. And then yeah, as
the last point is changes to for example, documentation and design,
how do you get it back into the original design.
(09:10):
So all of these things are solved by sapsic navio
or at least supported. This is why you know, for
projects it's extremely useful. The only problem or the fact
that I see today is that since there's at least
according to my knowledge, nothing similar or a combination of
(09:34):
products that are similar to SAPSG navio or that solves
the same problems. It's still something new, but the problem
and the use cases are there. It's you know, it
solved the problems and the use cases that are there.
But since it is new and no one really done
it before, using sapsic navio still feels like a luxury
for a project. So you can do it, but you
(09:57):
don't need to do it. You can work around it somehow.
But I think if more companies will using now you
in the future, and more companies will recognize the what
is useful about SAPSG now You, then it will get
or it will move from a can use it to
a must use it to stay you know, or to
(10:21):
to execute project SAP projects with a lot of quality
and small durations. But yeah, that's just as a as
an introduction to the to the project phases themselves.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Okay, great, So if we look at.
Speaker 6 (10:37):
The different phases in the project, you know, for a
need to BM project, at least start off with a
discover phase where you try to well get as much
data from the from the customer as possible. You try
to get a feel for what the customer wants to
solve and you prepare organization data, et cetera. Here you're
(11:00):
the key fact where s appeasing now you can help
is getting data data mining, because usually we would have
to get that data from customer documentation and interviews. Getting
that data directly from the system is very helpful, especially
since the data is also modeled in a good way
so you can analyze it very quickly and easily.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Would you say that's the most elaborate phase in the
in the entire circle, or well, it sounds like a
lot of work getting this data together, is it, or
is that just my impression?
Speaker 6 (11:32):
Well, this data for a discover phase is usually more
on a high level, so it's actually a good fact
that you brought it up. Where this gets into well
more details is the next two phases prepare and explore.
So yeah, discover is like, well a first step in
a project you just you know, try to get a
feeling for what the customer has.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
But yeah, I mean second phase would be.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
Prepare phase where it gets a little bit more detailed.
This is usually based on the goal to define a scope.
And if you want to have a scope, you need
to have the s is data prepared and you need
to define at least the way or the goal that
you want to achieve for your warehouse. Here also again
(12:24):
we can use the possibilities of sapsic Naviga to get
data but also start and model data in sapsgnawvio.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
So can I imagine it like I just I have
all this data and I just kind of push a
button and then the model is created.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
For me or kind of. That's like at least the
first step.
Speaker 6 (12:47):
So usually you know when you do that, when you
get the data from signavio, and then you can create
process flows documentation in signavio.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
It will be a good start.
Speaker 6 (12:59):
But you know there's always changes or process specifics that
you cannot see in the system. So what you would
have to do is take these processes and then you know,
detail them in interviews with customers.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Right, because I'm only seeing the traces and the system,
and I'm not seeing anything that physically happens or who
does it or when is it done?
Speaker 6 (13:26):
Okay, you know, the system is especially if you come
from a legacy.
Speaker 5 (13:31):
System, what is in the system is one thing and.
Speaker 6 (13:34):
Then what actually happens physically in reality is a different thing.
So this is why you have to check them moving
on in our project faces would be the explore phase
where we are moving on from a scope and prepared
definition to really define the two B processes in detail.
(13:56):
Here again, we can use the s IS processes that
we created earlier as a baseline for you know, how
the warehouse, how the processes in the warehouse are going
to look in the future. And then as a second step,
we would.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
Model these two B processes.
Speaker 6 (14:12):
And usually what we like to do when we do
WM projects, especially for form projects and warehouses, we don't
just you know, create a to be process and then
say all right, that's the it concept, that's where we
want to go. We use like a last step in
the explore phase too, basically break our own design, you know, soundest, Yeah,
(14:39):
we basically try to find way too. You know, we
had ideas, we had a design, but you cannot really
be sure that your design works if you you know, don't.
Speaker 5 (14:49):
Try to break it in the end. Okay, So you're
you know.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Basically it's kind of you challenge it or you test it.
Speaker 6 (14:56):
Okay, yes, okay, I see you played Devil's Advocate and
then just you know, try to be more safe and
maybe change some things that you designed. In the beginning,
and that might have changed when you came to the
end of the design.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Okay, reminds me of system testing, and then you you
enter all kinds of weird stuff that you shouldn't be
enter and see what happens.
Speaker 6 (15:18):
Exactly morey on a theory level. So but yeah, it's
something similar, Okay, I understood. Yeah, And then I think,
you know, when we have this discover, prepare, and explore,
you are, like with getting data and modeling data, you
are you have a good baseline for the next phase,
(15:38):
which is the realized face. Where As the name suggests,
we realize what we designed earlier and implement the solution
in the system, customizing of different storage types, the overall
warehouse layout, different process steps, and then also customer or
custom developments for specific needs of the warehouse. Now, when
(15:59):
you do that in an WM project, what always happens
is that when the customer can actually you know, get
a look and feel for the system and do small
functional tests or we do small functional tests, we often
realize that at this stage there will be changes to
the original design. Because designers on a theoretical level and
(16:22):
then you actually see it in the system. Sometimes you know,
that's not coherent. So what we need here from SPC
NOWVIO is a way to get all of these changes
back into the original design where you know the different
modules of SPCC now you can help us to achieve
that goal faster and more easy. Okay, well, I think
(16:45):
from a discovered to realize point, that's about it. In
the last two phases, sapsing now you can help, but
it's not that strong. The last two phases would be
deployed where we have usually like user acceptance tests where
we prepare the goal life and you know, if you
have like automation, you also try to do system integration
(17:07):
testing where you you know, combine different systems together and
then you know, once you have the final confirmation that
the system works as expected, you you know, let the
warehouse become reality and have the goal life, which would
be the last phase to run phase where we have
the go life and then also a small goal life
(17:29):
support phase afterwards for two weeks for example. And yeah,
as I said, in these two phases, we usually see
the advantages of sapsing now vi're from the earlier stages
because if you try to do user acceptance test or
even a goal life training you know, for your users,
it gets much more or much more efficient and easy
(17:53):
if you have a proper documentation, if you build your
solution on existing data, and you can actually you.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Know, benefit from all that has been previously created. And okay,
I see, okay, very interesting.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
And that's I mean, that would show a typical WM
project and the you know, the possibilities that you have
with spz Navia for these and I think it is
a good use case to show and explain customers on
how they can get advantages out of SPC.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Yeah, thank you very much. This was a very detailed
description of all the phases and I think it is
now this was this was great so much for the
implementation of it and using Zignavio. But we also have
another use case which I think is just as interesting
for our customers because this once you have it up
(18:49):
and running, you're not necessarily done yet.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
You brought the example of the e w M health Check.
I really like this example and the name of it.
So yeah, let's talk about the health check.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
Sure.
Speaker 6 (19:08):
So yeah, as you said, we have like a spot
consulting solution that we call the EOBM Warehouse health Check
and same you know, as we talked before, same as
going to a doctor. You go to a doctor if
either you feel pain, if something goes really wrong, or
as we you know, usually suggest you go to the
(19:30):
doctor on a regular basis for a check exactly to
be sure that nothing happened.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
You know. Now, if we, you know, put that to.
Speaker 6 (19:42):
The concept of warehouses or EOBM, you would have, for example,
a project that ended goal life is done, and now
you want to be sure and identify if the expected
goals were achieved. So the warehouse actually does what you want.
It creates the numbers that you want to have and
(20:03):
everything works as expected, and whether.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
You follow the standard process just as you as you
imagined you.
Speaker 6 (20:11):
Would exactly if we as a consultancy together with the partner,
that everything the right way, let's say it like that,
and as I said, that makes sense, same as a
doctor if something is not right and if everything seems
fine and you just want to get a confirmation that
it is fine.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
But it would also make sense. Let's say if your
your business changes or you're I don't know, out of
a sudden, you're shipping way more e commerce orders and yeah,
your your your volumes are are different, et cetera. You
could use this to make sure that everything is still
(20:52):
set up in the best way.
Speaker 6 (20:56):
I mean, if you know, if if a company grows,
they say, somehow have to you know, I have to
check that everything, every process that they created in the
warehouse still works as expected with the new volume and data.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
So yeah, good point.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah right, I like this. So how often should you
go to the doctor?
Speaker 6 (21:11):
Well, let's not use this example because I'm not a doctor.
Usually what we well suggest this depends on what you
did before. If you had a big project before, try
and do it maybe six months even ten months after
implementation was completed. If you're already running a warehouse for
(21:34):
a longer time, you know, definitely if you see something
goes wrong or on a regular basis, maybe once every
two years. Yeah, this is what we usually suggest to customers.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Okay, thank you very much for this. Yeah, thank you,
detailed description and I think it was very useful.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
Happy to help.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Let's let's see how many customers as we can convince
to to do a health check. And yes, good luck
in the future. And I'm very I'm looking forward to
speaking about any use cases and references and spaghetti plates
that you untangled. Where you made the process look lean
(22:19):
and clean again.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
So, now that we learned about the theoretical approach and
the different steps that you that you go through during
this process, where do you see the biggest challenges and
the biddle the biggest hurdles that you need to overcome
in your projects.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
Well, if you look at reality, you know, at e
WM project or implementation projects, as I said in the beginning,
the problems that we can solve with s a PC.
Now you you know, the customers are also we usually
you know, don't don't focus on these on these problems.
It would be things like the data that you get
(23:02):
from either the customer or the system that is always
you know, problematic because a lot of the time, the
the timelines and deadlines in a project are tight. So
if you need to prepare information, or if you need
to get information as a customer from your colleagues and
(23:22):
so on, and you're running low on time you hit
a deadline, then at some point you don't really focus
on good results of that information anymore. So you know,
just you know, be quick about it, get some information,
just push it over to the consultancy and then we're good.
We as a consultancy base our whole design on the
(23:43):
information that we get.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
So we actually need good exact quality of data otherwise
it makes perfect sense, right, I mean, this is.
Speaker 6 (23:51):
Why it makes sense to focus on this topic and
you know, get support from signal early on and yeah,
but then basically what we get from that data, what
we create as a result, documentation is you know, I
think a lot of people who have done SEP projects
in every module can agree is also, you know, a
(24:13):
thing that I think projects should focus on more in
the future, because documentation is the baseline for a lot
of phaces and things that you do in a project.
Let it be testing, let it be training, or just
you know, in general, if you want to find something,
find some information about the development, you need a good documentation.
(24:34):
And usually without SAPSIC, Novio customers know they have to
document and that's it.
Speaker 5 (24:42):
You know.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
We try to help them in the beginning and try
to set up a strategy for documentation, but there's not
really a focus on it. And if you use SAPSIC
now you don't really need to focus on it because
the system does it for you and it's a great
baseline for everything you know that comes afterwards. So these
two things you know, are in my opinion, problems that
(25:05):
do occur in every project, but which need definitely need
more focus.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Okay, so what do you think are typical challenges when
you first start a project and you dive into the
process analysis.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
And that's a very good question because actually I had
that one in one of my last projects, because, like usually,
the main issue is that when when doing a Signalire project,
it sounds a lot like a business topic because you
have your processes, you want to model them, you want
to put put your center of excellence, you want to
build that up. But for the process analysis, when it's
(25:41):
a it's a data topic, right, you need to invoive
it very early. And we had to issue that. It
was like the last person to get the information. Okay,
we want to install new features here, we need an extractor.
That extractor needs to be connected to our ECC, which
raised a lot of red flags. They were like, we
have to we have to send tickets, we have to
(26:05):
build servers, we have to install things. So you need
to really reach out to it to include them early,
very very early, to.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Let them know about the technical needs that you have
exactly exactly.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Then one of the issues. It depends really on the
age of the system. Like we had a customer who's
in a pre phase four AS four, Like they wanted
to understand what are they doing currently and where do
they need to improve before they can start the transformation.
So they had an ECC. ECC is okay, but that
(26:41):
ECC was running on an Oracle database, which is like
the last update they installed was ten years ago. The
data extraction for process intelligence runs on ESQL scripts. The
Oracle database did not like Western Acher with the ESQUAL scripts,
like they destroyed it, and the extraction scripts, which are
(27:06):
supposed to run for like three hours, suddenly took four days.
Speaker 5 (27:10):
Oh per table.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
And now we're talking about timelines again.
Speaker 5 (27:14):
Now we're talking time exactly.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
In the usual order to cash, you were looking at
like twenty tables with big your your sales ordered tables,
and they take forever. And if you suddenly want extractions
running for like fifteen seventeen days and you have your
workshop scheduled, your ESS's workshops in like three weeks, you
(27:38):
start to.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Sweat, Okay, So you have to pretty much take into
consideration where you're pulling data from and kind of incorporate
this into the timeline that there could be also technical
struggles that I would not make it as easy as
it sounds when we just talked about.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
This exactly and ever since then, I started as the
customers what their database is running on? Okay, I want
to prepare them. If it's OURCA, maybe schedule four weeks longer.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Good, that's good insights here inside haha intelligence. Yeah, thanks
for sharing. You're welcome, all right, Well, thank you very much, Philip,
Thank you very much, Ben for joining me in this
podcast here. I really enjoyed this. I'm looking forward to
another one. Thank you very much for listening, Thanks for
(28:31):
watching this, and talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
That brings us to the end of this episode. Some
great insights today into warehouse process optimization. Thank you so
much to Christina and our guests from Westernoker for sharing
their amazing insights from the show floor at Logimat this year.
I'm sure there are many listeners out there who found
this discussion hugely beneficial. If you have a suggestion for
(29:01):
a topic, or I would like to be a guest
on the show, we'd love to hear from you. Contact
me at podcast at mebok dot com at any time.
As always, Thank you for listening to Speaking of Supply Chain.
If you've enjoyed our show, please rate and review us
on whichever podcast platform you prefer. We're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
and Apple Music, and be sure to tune in next time.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
You've been listening to Speaking of Supply Chain, a meboch podcast,
keep connected with us by subscribing to the show in
your favorite podcast player. If you like what you've heard, please.
Speaker 5 (29:36):
Rate the show.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
That helps us to keep delivering the latest in supply
chain information. Thanks for listening. Until next time.
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