July 10, 2025 • 41 mins
Labor shortages, high turnover, and outdated training methods are holding back warehouse and distribution center performance across the supply chain. As logistics operations grow more complex, many teams still rely on static SOPs and outdated LMS systems, leaving managers unequipped to coach and retain their teams effectively.
This week, host Ellen Wood speaks with Tim Regnier, CEO and Founder of Smart Access, about a smarter approach to frontline coaching. Tim shares how real-time feedback, behavior-based insights, and modern coaching tools are helping logistics teams close skill gaps, improve safety, and build stronger, more resilient operations.
In this episode:
This week, host Ellen Wood speaks with Tim Regnier, CEO and Founder of Smart Access, about a smarter approach to frontline coaching. Tim shares how real-time feedback, behavior-based insights, and modern coaching tools are helping logistics teams close skill gaps, improve safety, and build stronger, more resilient operations.
In this episode:
- Why training alone won’t fix execution gaps
- How Smart Access cut ramp time by 64%
- What real frontline visibility looks like
- The key to keeping warehouse teams engaged
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to Speaking of Supply Chain, a meeboch podcast.
This is a show for logistics professionals looking to learn
more about the latest innovations in supply chain. Each episode
will feature a conversation on topics such as mitigating supply
chain disruption and reducing risk, current automation trends, sustainability initiatives,
and more. Let's dive right in.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello, and welcome to Speaking of Supply Chain, where we
explore trends, current events, and innovations impacting the logistics and
supply chain industries. I'm your host, Ellen Wood. High turnover
rates and labor shortages remain pressing challenges in the warehousing industry,
further complicated by declining interest and persistent turnover. Given the
ongoing expansion of e commerce and the demand for efficient
(00:52):
distribution networks, strategic workforce planning is more critical than ever before.
Here to speak with me today about a platform seeking
to support companies facing these types of challenges is Tim Renier,
CEO and founder of smart Access.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Welcome Tim, Hello, thanks for having me. Exciting stuff to
talk about.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Of course, great to have you on the show today.
We're here to talk about warehousing industry and staffing and
training challenges. So what are some of the primary challenges
that distribution centers specifically face in terms of productivity, workplace
management and what's going on because this is a huge
(01:34):
topic right now.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Yeah, Well, I think the thing is is that people
think it's a training conversation. And what I have experienced
and what I've seen is when I go into buildings
and I think about these people in these buildings trying
to move the boxes and the volume of goods they
need to move, is there's a burden of execution that
(01:57):
is on the floor. And so you have these walls
and the burden of execution lands on the shoulders of
these wonderful people that are general managers, assistant general manager,
ops managers, frontline leaders and supervisors. And then you have
the frontline workers. And what we see is their job
is to scale individual performance and a lot of the
(02:19):
things that they've been given and the tools have said, well,
we ran them through the program that said that they
should know what to do. Now you go and make
it happen, and then they have to do that and
there's just like for us as we see it, we
just like that's the hard part of the work, Like
thanks for the program that I went through, and it
took me, I don't know, a couple of days at
a computer screen. Like now I go to go out
(02:41):
there and actually get the job done. And that is
the hard part, honestly. I mean, that's what they all
exist for. That's why continuous improvement exists, is can we
actually do the work at scale in a sustainable way.
So their challenges are all those things you said at
the beginning, like I got turnover, I got people not
that interested in the work. It's hard work, like all
that stuff. It's getting more and more complicated, and now
(03:04):
I have to make do with what I have and
with the people that are there and willing to work,
and I don't really have the tools to get the
job done. So I think that's the biggest issue is
actually executing the job.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
So these outdated training methods, I mean obviously getting a
new job and sitting in front of that computer to
go through the orientation module and you know, seeing all
the things that you can be doing is not it's
not that old, but it is. That's been training modules
and that's how training happens and onboarding happens for you know,
twenty thirty years. That's a little bit outdated by now,
(03:38):
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
I think so, I think, I mean, it's part of it.
It's kind of like you go to get your drivers.
I have young teenage have teenage kids, and they had
to go and they had to do a written test,
and that's what we've stopped at. There's the written test,
but to get your drivers, actually do a road test.
And so when you get out on the floor, it's
in the doing that matters. The reason. Like, it hit
(03:59):
me like a ton of bricks. We used to sell
to like learning and development people and I went to
an operator and I said, oh, like, proficiency is someone
that has went through the training. And he laughed at me.
He said, that means nothing. That doesn't help me at all.
Proficiency is can they do the job or not? And
that's that's the hard part. And so lots of people
(04:21):
do tricks. I see some tricks like let's gamify it,
let's treat these people like you know, like candy crush addicts,
Like what's like to bring them in and let's like
throw stuff in front of them and say let's just
do that. I'm like, that's kind of insulting to their intelligence.
These people like they're not We're not trying to sell
ads to these people. I know it works for Facebook
or Twitter, like they want to keep you engaged, but
(04:44):
these people there, this is hard and it's meaningful work.
So let's treat it that way. And so let's talk
about the work on the floor. So that's how I
see it, and I think that's where training probably misses
the point a little bit.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So with smart Access, and you're mission in the supply
chain and logistics sector specifically, tell us just a little
bit about it in general.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
So in general, we're trying to drive operational outcomes. Okay,
so that's the start put, not learning outcomes, operational outcomes,
and that's productivity, accuracy, safety, Those are like the main things.
There's more to it, but that's the main performance. And
so smart Access the way we look at it is
(05:27):
if you can take the standards and the behaviors on
the floor and make sure that those are working together,
then you have the outcomes that you're looking for. Someone
has designed this work specifically, and most people have designed
it to be sustainable, and we want to be able
to get out on the floor and make sure that
the behaviors are matching and supporting the standards, and so
(05:51):
smart access brings in the information to first of all,
gather that information what are the behaviors from the floor,
using supervisors and using leaders that are on the floor,
gather that information, expose the gaps where that behavior isn't
matching to SOP, and then scale the gap closing. And
so to do that, there's mechanisms within the platform to
(06:14):
expose the gaps and then close the gaps. And then
we bring in all the data that you would need
to actually have an engaging conversation with that frontline associate
that you can see the data and bring it together.
So there's lots of tactics within the platform, but essentially
we're scaling individual performance.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Okay, so how is this different than another off the
shelf LMS, you know, labor management solution.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yeah, labor management. Well, we'll start with learning management. Learning
learning management has drives learning outcomes. We drive operational outcomes.
So that's the main difference. It's not really on the floor,
it's it's in the doing, so that it's where the
work happens, is where we want to be. So that's
where that when it comes to labor management, I would say,
labor management is like the score in a basketball game.
(07:03):
The score is fifty to sixty eight or something like that. Great,
we know what these people are supposed to be doing
in the timeframe, we know what they're trying to hit.
But what happens if we're losing? What happens when things
are accuracy goes up? It In some ways, I would
look at it like that is like a EKG. One
(07:24):
customer said this to me, it's like smart access. There's
an EKG that tells you, like, that's the score. That's
like a labor management system. Smart access is the blood test. Okay,
Like these are the actual things that we need to
change so that the score goes up into the right
So things that work out, And so that's kind of
and that's actually where we fit on the floor, is
that we're not we take labor management data that those
(07:47):
are good pieces of data to have when you talk
to someone like what's your performance, your CPH, your UPH
your direct time, indirect time, all those things matter, scan
times and everything. But when you bring it together with
behavior information, then you have something to work with. You
actually have meat on the bone.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
All right, So what ways does this smart access equip
those managers to support I mean you said, you know,
they've they're entering the information as they're you know, observing,
How does it help them, especially when you're looking at
all different kinds of levels of ability amongst employees, how
(08:24):
does that help them support and improve their teams?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
So, first of all, the big thing is you have
a lot of battlefield promotions out there, right, Like, there's
people that have been in the job. They show up,
they're nice people and they're willing to work, and sometimes
they get to be the managers. And that means that
that doesn't necessarily mean they know the job inside and out.
And there's some that know it inside and out that
are not so warm and fuzzy, and you know, like
(08:49):
there's there's different people. Fundamentally, where we start is you
have a job function. What is the outcome of that
job function? And so what we do when we meet
new customers is we ingest all of their SOPs using AI,
so if not hard, we take it into our system
and from there when we generate an observation based on
SOPs so that when they walk out on the floor,
(09:11):
they're going to observe someone. So observation is a great
tool to engage someone on the floor, and when you
get out there, it's job function specific, it's prompt level.
It's prompting that person to look for something, and even
the responses are telling you how the job is done.
So are they putting the labels in the right place?
(09:31):
Yes or no? Bad prompt? Are they putting the label
in the bottom right corner as of the palette? Are
they applying it in a is it sticking the right
way or whatever? So it's specific to that and so
then they're looking reading the prompt, watching the behaviors and
their response, and the back end is getting graded and
(09:52):
also being put into such a fashion that when the
system says now it's time to talk and coach that
frontline meter, it gives them all of the things to
think about, all of the things to talk about, and
it's all generated from the system. So we give them
the ability to walk it on the floor with confidence
and have that engaging conversation with that frontline associates. I've
(10:15):
seen it once. I walked out with a guy and
he was observing someone and he said, well, this person
used to work at Walmart. Says, well, at Walmart, we
used to park our equipment on the right side and
get off on the left. And he said, well, we
get off park on the left and get off on
the right, like whatever, just for him to have the
confidence that that's the difference, like, I appreciate what you
did at Walmart, but because of the we're set up,
(10:37):
we're not Walmart or something different. You need to do
it this certain way because it matters. If that guy
didn't have that information with him, then maybe he wouldn't
have been successful in saying no, we do it this
way because of this reason. And so even also within
our platform, there's you can insert videos at every prompt
level of how things you know, like if you want
(10:57):
to do a pace walk, like this is what pace
looks like, you could do it, or you can like
if there's a video right there, it says, well, this
is what it looks like. And you have videos and
you can have articles that support the entire job function.
So it's quite comprehensive, so that leader is armed when
they go it on the floor to have that conversation.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I mean, that's huge to have all of that frontline
visibility right there in the moment as you're doing it
into where those skill gaps are and as I understand,
you know, once you've entered the information, it does give
you prompts to then say, oh, well, then this is
how you need to coach, or this is what you
need to say, or here's a video that you can
(11:35):
use to demonstrate. So how is that like really driving
that continuous improvement? Is that working to help develop those
team members into the more valuable team members that are
getting the work done? I mean, is it better than
(11:56):
traditional methods of just you know, having the shift meeting
at the end of the day and here's where we
were and oh I saw this and I saw that.
I mean, this feels a lot more personal and intentional.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yeah. I think the first thing is when we think
about the operation. Let's say you have two hundred people
on the floor. If you look at a bell curve
of their performance, it's going to be a bell curve
like there's people that fit there, and if we can
move that whole thing up into the right, we're winning.
And that's the results we see. We see productivity performance
(12:28):
depending on how you look at it. We've seen buildings
grow to ten percent improvement across the building. And what
we do see is we can see individuals improving fifteen
to twenty percent. Especially new people where their productivity goes
up that much, that's amazing. And the other thing that's
surprised us when we started doing this is the even
high performance performing people, their productivity went up six to
(12:51):
seven percent performance productivity depending again how you look at it.
And so that is that's meaningful to organizations where they've
invested hundreds of millions of dollars onto the labor on
the floor and it increases that return on invested capital.
It's like the most important thing that they do because
(13:13):
it's usually sixty to seventy percent if their spend is
on the labor. And that's just on productivity. We we'll
probably talk about retention and ramp time, but driving that
is just I mean, that's what they're looking for. That's
why these continuous improvement engineers are at these buildings, is
to support that execution and increasing that productivity from every
(13:35):
person on the floor.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
So you've given us a couple of examples of measurable outcomes.
What is like a standout, like the best customer significant
change that you've experienced with this tool.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
There was a large retailer. We started out with them
and we did three buildings and used the system, and
we were able to compare before and after, and there
was a couple of things that mattered. One is that
we saw buildings improve performance by ten to fifteen percent,
so that was huge. Then the other thing that was
exciting for them was retention, and retention increased before we
(14:20):
were there, they were at about forty eight percent retention
at one hundred and eighty days. And so this study
actually was over two years, thirty five hundred people. Okay,
so it was a big study. So forty eight percent
at one hundred and eighty days quick quits. They're just tough, right,
Like you lose people. If you can keep them using
to one hundred eighty, they're going to stay, right, So
(14:41):
that that's the goal. I mean, there's a lot of
ninety day quick quits, but we're thinking how do we
get them to one eighty because then they stay and
they are valuable to you've recouped your investment to get
that person's skill after using smart access. Again, this is
a two year study, thirty five hundred people. That retention
at one hundred eighty days was eighty five percent, so
they're only losing fifteen percent rather than fifty two percent.
(15:04):
So yeah, and we attribute that to a scaled engagement.
People know what they talk about when they get on
the floor, and they have that engagement across that network.
And you've been in these buildings. Some of them are dark.
Sometimes you're in the back corner in the stacks. It's
not like some people love it, like just don't talk
(15:24):
to me. But people are human. I treat them like humans.
They want to like, what does my boss even think
about me? Like? Am I going to get fired? And
what did I do? I didn't hit my goals? I
might like. So it just don't treat the people in
these buildings like just a number and just a unit
per hour, Like we got to think a little bit
differently about them. So anyway, that that was pretty exciting
(15:45):
for them, and they've since rolled across their entire network
and they spend about twenty five thousand hours a month
in the platform. They have a big network, so it's
a big deal.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Oh wow, that's huge. Well, and so I guess that
that leads to kind of a follow up question of
you know, yes, we do have workers who care and
who want to do a good job. We want to
treat them like humans. But we all know that there
are those employees that don't care, that are just there
(16:16):
because they need a paycheck or because lots of reasons.
My father worked in a production facility of food production
facility and warehousing in the Deep South, and there are
different attitudes toward work and especially toward manual, blue collar labor.
(16:36):
So how does this help when you're when you're dealing
with those individuals that are only there because they have
a bill to pay that would normally just you know,
make enough money to get to get by that month
and then say, Okay, well I don't want to work here,
so I'm not going to anymore.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yeah, well, sometimes just having a bill to pays enough
to keep you there. So that's a real like we
have all been there where it's like I got to
do this thing I don't like because I need, you know,
to pay my electricity bill. I think the way I've
always tried to build the software is to think about
the human that's on the other side, both the supervisor,
(17:17):
leader and the frontline worker. And when you engage I believe,
I mean, this is what I believe is that people
want to do meaningful work and if you can be
good at your job, even if it's just because I
need to pay the bills, I think that gives you,
I don't know, maybe a level of joy or completeness
(17:37):
as a human. So I think helping people be even
masters of the work, even if it's like a creuddy job,
I think is really important. Every one of us wants
to succeed in life, like we want to like make
progress and learn and be better. I think that's something
that's human. And so helping someone be excellent at work,
(17:57):
I think is a really noble thing. And these organizations,
if they can do that, that's the hard part is
like how do you make people care? And you see
it in these buildings, wonderful people that really do care
about these workers. Like you've been to their stand ups.
You've seen the way they congratulate each other, how they
help each other out. It's a really lively environment. And
(18:18):
sometimes people, you know, you just want to I've seen it,
like that guy's in the like odd shaped section of
shipping and like packaging and we just leave them be
and whatever, and that there's people like that and you
just need to me. But ultimately, if people can do
good work, I think that's what you can offer them
is that they can get their job done and do
(18:39):
it well. People will go through what they will. So
that's the way I see it.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I don't know well, and it reminds me. I don't
know if you've ever read the book Gung Ho. It
was really popular about twenty years ago. Was the first
time I was introduced to it, and it's a great book.
I've got it on my desk actually, and that was
one of the things I forget. It goes through a
couple different examples of animals, and one's the spirit of
(19:05):
the squirrel and then another one's a beaver. But one
of them is that, you know, people need to feel
like their work matters at the end of the day.
And I can see from a from a company's perspective,
of course you have you have goals, you have operational goals,
you have you know, throughput goals, But what does that
mean to the person and really personalizing that information and
(19:26):
not just you know, yeah, you hit the goal, congress,
you know you did your job, or you didn't hit
the goal. Now we're going to have corrective you know,
corrective action. And so I feel like this tool gives
them at least a little bit more insight into Okay,
not only how to do this more effectively or more efficiently,
(19:47):
but why it's important to or you know, there's probably
a safety concern. I know we're going to get into
that subject in just a minute, but it feels like
this this really gives that that supervisor, and to your point,
might be someone who doesn't necessarily have supervisory or managerial
training or expertise, but it gives them the ability to
(20:08):
put that that work into perspective for the employee.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yes. Yes, And it's such an interesting at least in
these buildings, is that it's an ecosystem, Like what you
do matters. Like if you don't clean as you go,
that means the next person does. If you don't level pick,
that means that the next person's got to reach in
to pick. You know, like it all matters. And if
you can work together and see that, I think it
(20:33):
makes a difference, then you feel like you're actually part
of a team. But if you don't have a mechanism
to bring that thinking in and scale it, then I
mean I had a customers say to me, you know
we did what smart Access did. We can't We tried it,
like we tried to get this done and maybe we
can find a good manager and a good couple of agms,
(20:55):
oms or whatever to do the work. But to scale
that across our network, we've tried and we can't do it.
And so this is just a tool to scale what
they already do. They all know that this stuff is important,
but now let's make it easier for them. Let's give
them the tool so they can stand on the tool
and just actually be engaging in connect with the people.
And these numbers that I was sharing, that's the proof
(21:17):
in it, and that's I think. We've talked to our
frontline workers and say, well, what do you think of
this observation, like we are observing you every ninety days,
and they say they really like it because it's like
someone's talking to me about my work. They're helping me
get better. And it's hard as a manager to get
off your seat you're looking at all these dashboards and
(21:37):
data points in their office, get out on the floor
and talk to the people that are producing for the business.
And so that retention number says to me a lot
about it's one thing to keep people, but it means
that we're doing the right things and helping them because
if they don't like it, they're out of there. Like
it's not it's their choice, like they have opportunities.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah, so does the platform interface with other functions of
personnel and employee retention, like you know, HR timekeeping or
even I mean we're talking about warehousing and distribution like
the WMS or the ERP system.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, so we bring the system is an open architecture,
so we love taking data and it's kind of the
place that data should reside because this is where the
rubber hits the road, right, it's on the floor. So
we take HRS data for your rosters and we push
information into learning management system. So almost every one of
our customers has a learning management system and uses us
(22:39):
as well because we're just we're at different angle on it.
We take in LM data if they don't have it.
Sometimes we'll take in WMS data. Time and attendance is
something that I think we're working on right now to
bring in. It's not that it's complicated, but we're using
that to make sure we know who's on shift so
that we can say, okay, like here's your labor, here's
(23:01):
your volume for the day, here's the people you have
on shift. Let's make sure that we have the right
people in the right places. And if we need to
move people, like if thing some conveyor goes down and
you've got to go fast and you've got to get
your cut time, we've got to move the right people over.
Sometimes you want to bring your best people. Sometimes you
want to bring those that need to become the best people,
and that decisions made on the floor. So giving that
(23:22):
visibility to frontline leadership is really valuable.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Yeah, which which asset, which individuals not assets? Which individuals
are available at any time?
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah, So I had touched on safety a little while back.
What types of what types of safety awareness or improvements
are ingrained or or a part of smart access. I
mean obviously you were you were talking about the the
forklifts or the machinery and getting out on the right
(23:55):
versus on the left, and you know that that comes
down to it's it's a safe safety issue because everyone
knows what the expectations are and when we're in these
large facilities, there's a lot of heavy moving equipment, there's
a lot of heavy palettes, and it's a dangerous working environment.
So safety has to be top priority for not only
(24:19):
the employees, but the managers and so what kind of
safety I guess awareness or learning and education is built
into these these standard operating procedures that you are showing
and evaluating.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
So there's two ways. One is consistently bringing a top
of mind. So there's organizations use smart access to do
safety observations, audits, and and because of the system manages compliance,
it helps you because it's easy to do. You pull
up your mobile device or a laptop or whatever, a
tablet and it's like you need to get your coverage.
(24:58):
It will tell you like who you need to speak
with and observe and coach people on. So that's a
very specific part of it that helps deliver the way
we need to behave to be safe on the floor,
and that's just scaling that and being consistent. That's number one.
But the other thing that happens is that sometimes we
(25:21):
think that we've told everyone how to be safe, but
we haven't. And so there is an interesting situation organization
they were doing breakpack and the person was not using
kevlar gloves to open up right, So that's a safety issue.
So the person raises it. They raised it within smart
(25:41):
Access or feedback loop and it goes back and we
have the sop and the doesn't say that you need
to use kevlar gloves. So nobody is saying use kevlar gloves. Well,
obviously that's an oversight. Let's fix that, right. So what
happened it was actually fascinating. So this was in Dallas,
someone says, we don't have the sop for using flour gloves. Well,
change it in the sop immediately in smart access. That
(26:05):
then changes it in the observation. The very next day
in Sacramento, the same observation was completed and they said
we don't, oh, we need to use kevlar gloves. We
actually don't have kevlar gloves on site. We need to
get Keller gloves. And so from the fundamental way of operating,
(26:26):
because the system is on the floor pulling in information
from the floor and has all of the standards inside
of it, we can now change and so for safety,
the change just happened organically. Everyone just like, oh, now
we need gloves and let's get that going. And then
the platform also does. This is something new for us
is that this is a funny example in some ways
(26:48):
is we have what are called action plans where we
can roll out change to the buildings. So now we
have an action a way to build in the platform
to say, okay, everyone, Kevler gloves are coming to your building.
Do you have it? Now that you have it? Is
it on the floor now that program's running SOPs change observations.
It's our new standard we use Kevler gloves in this area.
(27:10):
So it does everything because we're trying to think like, well,
what are these this is the job of these execution,
these people to execute. The burn of execution is on them.
How do we scale that? And that's one thing the
platform does, and it helps with the change management as well,
because it's all about getting the sustainability out of the
front line. So that's how we care about.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
That's huge.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
That is that is so huge.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
So what really brought about the inspiration for this, because
you seem incredibly passionate about it. Is this something that
you saw the problem and decided to develop a platform
or was it something that was just always kind of
in the back of your head getting percolating and working on.
(27:53):
Was it one horrendous incident.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
No, it was more of I think I'm interested in
systems and when you go into any process driven labor market.
What you see is there's things happening on the floor
and there's management, and management says they just need to
do this thing, and the front line says, if management
(28:20):
understood how things really work, they wouldn't ask us to
do that one thing. So you just see that and
it's like an age old problem, like this is around forever.
And I was it was a weird thing. I was
reading about Napoleon and it was just a small thing
about his rise to power. And the reason why Napoleon
rose to power is he allowed his armed forced people
(28:43):
to have backpacks. And I believe they'd never backpacks were
never used until this moment. I may not be like,
I might be remembering it wrong, but essentially it gave
everyone backpacks. So there's these people and they were fighting
the Prussians, and the Prussians were very like in line,
executed to perfection, and Napoleon said, here's a backpack. Take
(29:05):
everything you need so when you're on the battlefield you
can make the changes and you can address the enemy.
And so they would hide because they didn't do it
like the Prussians. They would hide behind fences and go
on rooftops and they decimated them. And what happens is
you brought down the information to the level of the battlefield.
You gave them the power to make changes and to
attack the problems as they saw. And so that was
(29:27):
the inspiration. I was like, Oh, all these software systems
are top down pushing, pushing down. What happens And the
experiment was, what happens if you give the power to
the floor and will they push up? And that's exactly
what they do. The truth is on the floor, it's
in the execution, it's in the behaviors. So let's give
them the ability to see the behaviors and then the
(29:51):
feedback loop to make the changes. And that is what
is so powerful about smart access. It's not the software,
it's the frame and the system of pushing from the
bottom up into from the floor up, and that's where
the power is because that's where all these people are
there for one reason is to support the front line,
and that's why we built the software. So there's a
(30:12):
long story on how we got there. We were working
with a retailer and they just introduced us to distribution.
I was like, oh my gosh, these people really need
this help because it's a really defined and necessary work,
like we really actually need you to do it this
way because it matters to us. And trying to do
that to a person is very hard. No one, I'm
not easy to Like, maybe you're the same, but if
(30:33):
someone tells me to do something exactly a certain way,
I don't want to do that.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Naturally, Absolutely, there's that just don't. I don't know if
it's it's some sort of edo something, just pushing back
and saying no, why why.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
I don't want to do it that way.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
I'm smarter than the exactly that would be my sixteen
year old pushing back and say saying why do I
need to do this this way? And so then you
have to go through the whole explanation of well, if
you do it your way, this is the result, and
if you do it my way, this is the result.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, And it's a great example. And that's what it's
like in these buildings, Like we meet organizations and it's like, well,
at our building, we do it this way, and then
the continuous improvement person's going, are you kidding me? That is?
I get it, but that doesn't like we have the
whole picture. And so that's the struggle. And so we
(31:34):
want to bring that information down to the floor so
that everyone can see what's happening, so we can make
it make it work for everyone. So that's the inspiring.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Do you get a lot of pushback from employees who
are who are in these situations where they're like, yeah,
there's there's what said, and then there's what's done. You know,
this standard operating procedure is not standard in the least.
This is not the way we do it here. But
it's because this is the way we've always done it.
Overcoming that objection and that that attitude that just straight now,
(32:10):
how does how does that work?
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Because yeah, I built this software. I wish I could
experience it more, but I'm in buildings a lot. I
think that there is that part. But that's what we
built into the software to surface that information. So anywhere
along when you're observing or skill building someone or certifying someone,
(32:34):
there's places in the software to feedback in and we
get it a lot. This doesn't apply to us, We
don't do it here. All that that information is rich
for continuous improvement and industrial enginey they what do you mean
you don't do it that way? This is the way
we need you to do it well why, and they
can actually collaborate and dialogue within the platform to surface
those things that are like and people learn like there's
(32:57):
there's people on the floor can tell you how to
do it better, and if they listen to it, they're
going to improve their organization. It's just there's all these
minds out there that could be helpful. You might as
well leverage them. You're paying them to be in your building.
They are a resource for you on how to make
things better, and so it goes both ways, of course.
But yeah, we've been we really were conscious that in
(33:19):
the platform, let's allow them to feedback that we need
to hear from them.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
And that's huge because there are a lot of in
the logistics industry. There's there's a lot of especially in
the past few years, we lost a lot of people
through COVID just because you know, the world shut down.
Some of this work was deemed necessary, some of it wasn't,
and people just decided, I mean a lot of the
(33:43):
older workforce just decided this is this is not worth
my effort anymore. I'm just going to retire now, retire
a little early and just be done with work. And
we lost a lot of tribal knowledge and just a
lot of historical data that went with them because it
was their way of doing it and not the standard
operating procedure that's outlined in a dusty binder somewhere on
(34:06):
the shelf. So I feel like this gives at least
the opportunity to capture some of that while it's still there,
while these people are still on the floor, at least
from the ones who are still around, to not lose
potentially good information because the reason they're doing it differently
(34:29):
may not make sense to management, but it does make
sense to those people on the floor. They do it
that way for a reason. They buck the system for
a reason, because whatever they've decided to do or however
they've decided to do it was born out of a
necessity somewhere along the line.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
And it's either I need to be faster, I got
to get my job done, or this doesn't hurt my
back to do it this way, and the way you
told me to do it might hurt, like you know
what I mean. There is a reality to execution that
isn't in the binder, and that's why we built our
SOP module. We weren't thinking about it, but we're just like, oh,
like this is a dead document. If it became a
(35:08):
living document with inputs from the floor all the time,
it gets better, like it becomes stronger, and it helps
everyone in the whole chain of operations make better decisions.
And so we see people and sometimes people will chase
the dollar and the pay, like, let's give them more
money to do that, and I think you should like
(35:29):
pay them really well, like this is hard work and
they deserve it. But chasing people with the dollar is
one way to do it. But also chasing them but
let's do excellent work, I think is more sustainable and
long lasting. And we all part of the stories of
certain organizations that if you don't hit your number, you're out,
and those people end up at other organizations and they
want to be in a rich environment where they can
(35:50):
do their work. And so if you can make that
a better place for them to work, they can do
good work. They aren't going to chase the dollar. They're
going to chase being part of the team. And that
does not mean that we're just trying to drive down
the pay, like we need to be able to make
a living here. But it maybe brings the wrong behavior
if you're chasing that potentially.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yeah, possibly, So what other trends? I mean, we've seen
a decline in the amount of labor in this sector,
so people are not looking for these jobs. They're not
searching for them, they're not interested in them. In many cases,
they tend to just go to whoever's available in that
(36:34):
geography who needs jobs. And it's even that's declining because
better and more fun jobs are available out there. Like
you said earlier, you know, standing around in a warehouse
is not the most glamorous job. So I mean that's
one trend that's on the horizon, is we're losing labor
force in this area. But what other.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Trends are you seeing?
Speaker 2 (36:57):
I mean you see fulfillment centers and distribution centers and warehousing.
What's happening there that we need to get ahead of
and what is smart access trying to get ahead of there?
Speaker 3 (37:09):
I think number one is we're trying to not I
think we're starting from a position is this is valuable,
important work and we need to respect the effort. I
think that's like the fundamental part of it. And that
doesn't mean it's not hard and that we don't have
high expectations, but we make sure that and I see
that in the people and the folks in the buildings.
(37:31):
I think that automation is coming. It's getting more and
more prevalent, and so I think people's jobs may become Again,
this is all active theory. I would say, I'm not
an expert on labor markets or anything and how they
really work, but I think that automation will change the
work that's done in these buildings and people will interact
(37:51):
more with machines and help those machines run. And so
I think that's a positive thing. Like if a machine
can do the work, the heavy lifting, so to speak,
then you can be part of that that that's a
good thing. I think that I know that we're bringing
a lot of AI into the work, into the leadership
on the floor, and that's supporting the work. And then
(38:16):
of course, I mean people think about robots and they
think that they're coming and they're going to replace people
and different things, and I would just I get the
sense of expansion. If AI increases GDP by ten percent.
I heard someone say, well, what do you think is
going to happen? Just more so there's going to be
more demand, more complexity, more like I want my stuff
(38:36):
delivered faster, and I want it done more precise, Like
it just becomes more so that I think that the
work is actually going to get harder to satisfy that
end user, your SLA, if you're a third party logistics company,
it's just it's going to get harder. So we're going
to need more systems, more automation. I think overall it's
just expansion, and we're going to need even more people too.
(38:59):
I don't think it's going to be less people. I
think it's gonna be more. Like I was on site
with an organization. They're putting in this huge like hive
cold storage hive and they're moving everything. It's like a
dark place. That building is going to double in size
headcount to support that. So it's not like it's shrinking
now the work they're doing the stream they need less
of this certain thing, but more people managing the robots
(39:22):
and the thing. So I guess I would just my
belief in transit. It's more expansion, bigger, faster.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
That's great in our industry.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Yes, absolutely, yeah it is. It is so, and I
think this group is really resilient, like they're getting hit
like tariffs are happening. And this is just a comment,
but the tariffs are happening. And I asked them what
do you think? What do you think? And they just say,
We're just going to keep executing. We know how to
do this. We've been through COVID. We figured out how
to survive difficult times and there was more resilient than ever.
(39:54):
So more change, they're going to be able to handle it.
I'm excited about watching these people figure it out. It's exciting.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Absolutely, Just like me sleeping in the Miami Airport at eighteen,
I learned how to manage to get through anything.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
That's fine, that's right, absolutely absolutely well.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
That brings us to the end of our episode. Thank
you so much, Tim for joining me today and telling
us a little bit more about this tool and what
you've seen going on in these types of facilities. It's
been great to have you on the show.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Thank you so much. This has a great conversation.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Thanks Ellen to our listeners. If you've found today's episode valuable,
please be sure to follow Speaking of Supply Chain on
whichever platform you get your podcasts and share it with
someone who's shaping the future of operations.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Meeboch Consulting is one of the largest and most globally
recognized supply chain consulting, engineering, and advisory firms. For nearly
fifty years, we've helped clients achieve supply chain excellence and
sustainable competitive advantage across the entire spectrum of the supply
chain by delivering improvements and innovation strategically, tactically, and digitally.
(41:10):
To learn more, visit meeboch dot com. You've been listening
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the show that helps us to keep delivering the latest
in supply chain information. Thanks for listening. Until next time.
You're listening to Speaking of Supply Chain, a meeboch podcast.
This is a show for logistics professionals looking to learn
more about the latest innovations in supply chain. Each episode
will feature a conversation on topics such as mitigating supply
chain disruption and reducing risk, current automation trends, sustainability initiatives,
and more. Let's dive right in.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello, and welcome to Speaking of Supply Chain, where we
explore trends, current events, and innovations impacting the logistics and
supply chain industries. I'm your host, Ellen Wood. High turnover
rates and labor shortages remain pressing challenges in the warehousing industry,
further complicated by declining interest and persistent turnover. Given the
ongoing expansion of e commerce and the demand for efficient
(00:52):
distribution networks, strategic workforce planning is more critical than ever before.
Here to speak with me today about a platform seeking
to support companies facing these types of challenges is Tim Renier,
CEO and founder of smart Access.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Welcome Tim, Hello, thanks for having me. Exciting stuff to
talk about.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Of course, great to have you on the show today.
We're here to talk about warehousing industry and staffing and
training challenges. So what are some of the primary challenges
that distribution centers specifically face in terms of productivity, workplace
management and what's going on because this is a huge
(01:34):
topic right now.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Yeah, Well, I think the thing is is that people
think it's a training conversation. And what I have experienced
and what I've seen is when I go into buildings
and I think about these people in these buildings trying
to move the boxes and the volume of goods they
need to move, is there's a burden of execution that
(01:57):
is on the floor. And so you have these walls
and the burden of execution lands on the shoulders of
these wonderful people that are general managers, assistant general manager,
ops managers, frontline leaders and supervisors. And then you have
the frontline workers. And what we see is their job
is to scale individual performance and a lot of the
(02:19):
things that they've been given and the tools have said, well,
we ran them through the program that said that they
should know what to do. Now you go and make
it happen, and then they have to do that and
there's just like for us as we see it, we
just like that's the hard part of the work, Like
thanks for the program that I went through, and it
took me, I don't know, a couple of days at
a computer screen. Like now I go to go out
(02:41):
there and actually get the job done. And that is
the hard part, honestly. I mean, that's what they all
exist for. That's why continuous improvement exists, is can we
actually do the work at scale in a sustainable way.
So their challenges are all those things you said at
the beginning, like I got turnover, I got people not
that interested in the work. It's hard work, like all
that stuff. It's getting more and more complicated, and now
(03:04):
I have to make do with what I have and
with the people that are there and willing to work,
and I don't really have the tools to get the
job done. So I think that's the biggest issue is
actually executing the job.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
So these outdated training methods, I mean obviously getting a
new job and sitting in front of that computer to
go through the orientation module and you know, seeing all
the things that you can be doing is not it's
not that old, but it is. That's been training modules
and that's how training happens and onboarding happens for you know,
twenty thirty years. That's a little bit outdated by now,
(03:38):
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
I think so, I think, I mean, it's part of it.
It's kind of like you go to get your drivers.
I have young teenage have teenage kids, and they had
to go and they had to do a written test,
and that's what we've stopped at. There's the written test,
but to get your drivers, actually do a road test.
And so when you get out on the floor, it's
in the doing that matters. The reason. Like, it hit
(03:59):
me like a ton of bricks. We used to sell
to like learning and development people and I went to
an operator and I said, oh, like, proficiency is someone
that has went through the training. And he laughed at me.
He said, that means nothing. That doesn't help me at all.
Proficiency is can they do the job or not? And
that's that's the hard part. And so lots of people
(04:21):
do tricks. I see some tricks like let's gamify it,
let's treat these people like you know, like candy crush addicts,
Like what's like to bring them in and let's like
throw stuff in front of them and say let's just
do that. I'm like, that's kind of insulting to their intelligence.
These people like they're not We're not trying to sell
ads to these people. I know it works for Facebook
or Twitter, like they want to keep you engaged, but
(04:44):
these people there, this is hard and it's meaningful work.
So let's treat it that way. And so let's talk
about the work on the floor. So that's how I
see it, and I think that's where training probably misses
the point a little bit.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So with smart Access, and you're mission in the supply
chain and logistics sector specifically, tell us just a little
bit about it in general.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
So in general, we're trying to drive operational outcomes. Okay,
so that's the start put, not learning outcomes, operational outcomes,
and that's productivity, accuracy, safety, Those are like the main things.
There's more to it, but that's the main performance. And
so smart Access the way we look at it is
(05:27):
if you can take the standards and the behaviors on
the floor and make sure that those are working together,
then you have the outcomes that you're looking for. Someone
has designed this work specifically, and most people have designed
it to be sustainable, and we want to be able
to get out on the floor and make sure that
the behaviors are matching and supporting the standards, and so
(05:51):
smart access brings in the information to first of all,
gather that information what are the behaviors from the floor,
using supervisors and using leaders that are on the floor,
gather that information, expose the gaps where that behavior isn't
matching to SOP, and then scale the gap closing. And
so to do that, there's mechanisms within the platform to
(06:14):
expose the gaps and then close the gaps. And then
we bring in all the data that you would need
to actually have an engaging conversation with that frontline associate
that you can see the data and bring it together.
So there's lots of tactics within the platform, but essentially
we're scaling individual performance.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Okay, so how is this different than another off the
shelf LMS, you know, labor management solution.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yeah, labor management. Well, we'll start with learning management. Learning
learning management has drives learning outcomes. We drive operational outcomes.
So that's the main difference. It's not really on the floor,
it's it's in the doing, so that it's where the
work happens, is where we want to be. So that's
where that when it comes to labor management, I would say,
labor management is like the score in a basketball game.
(07:03):
The score is fifty to sixty eight or something like that. Great,
we know what these people are supposed to be doing
in the timeframe, we know what they're trying to hit.
But what happens if we're losing? What happens when things
are accuracy goes up? It In some ways, I would
look at it like that is like a EKG. One
(07:24):
customer said this to me, it's like smart access. There's
an EKG that tells you, like, that's the score. That's
like a labor management system. Smart access is the blood test. Okay,
Like these are the actual things that we need to
change so that the score goes up into the right
So things that work out, And so that's kind of
and that's actually where we fit on the floor, is
that we're not we take labor management data that those
(07:47):
are good pieces of data to have when you talk
to someone like what's your performance, your CPH, your UPH
your direct time, indirect time, all those things matter, scan
times and everything. But when you bring it together with
behavior information, then you have something to work with. You
actually have meat on the bone.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
All right, So what ways does this smart access equip
those managers to support I mean you said, you know,
they've they're entering the information as they're you know, observing,
How does it help them, especially when you're looking at
all different kinds of levels of ability amongst employees, how
(08:24):
does that help them support and improve their teams?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
So, first of all, the big thing is you have
a lot of battlefield promotions out there, right, Like, there's
people that have been in the job. They show up,
they're nice people and they're willing to work, and sometimes
they get to be the managers. And that means that
that doesn't necessarily mean they know the job inside and out.
And there's some that know it inside and out that
are not so warm and fuzzy, and you know, like
(08:49):
there's there's different people. Fundamentally, where we start is you
have a job function. What is the outcome of that
job function? And so what we do when we meet
new customers is we ingest all of their SOPs using AI,
so if not hard, we take it into our system
and from there when we generate an observation based on
SOPs so that when they walk out on the floor,
(09:11):
they're going to observe someone. So observation is a great
tool to engage someone on the floor, and when you
get out there, it's job function specific, it's prompt level.
It's prompting that person to look for something, and even
the responses are telling you how the job is done.
So are they putting the labels in the right place?
(09:31):
Yes or no? Bad prompt? Are they putting the label
in the bottom right corner as of the palette? Are
they applying it in a is it sticking the right
way or whatever? So it's specific to that and so
then they're looking reading the prompt, watching the behaviors and
their response, and the back end is getting graded and
(09:52):
also being put into such a fashion that when the
system says now it's time to talk and coach that
frontline meter, it gives them all of the things to
think about, all of the things to talk about, and
it's all generated from the system. So we give them
the ability to walk it on the floor with confidence
and have that engaging conversation with that frontline associates. I've
(10:15):
seen it once. I walked out with a guy and
he was observing someone and he said, well, this person
used to work at Walmart. Says, well, at Walmart, we
used to park our equipment on the right side and
get off on the left. And he said, well, we
get off park on the left and get off on
the right, like whatever, just for him to have the
confidence that that's the difference, like, I appreciate what you
did at Walmart, but because of the we're set up,
(10:37):
we're not Walmart or something different. You need to do
it this certain way because it matters. If that guy
didn't have that information with him, then maybe he wouldn't
have been successful in saying no, we do it this
way because of this reason. And so even also within
our platform, there's you can insert videos at every prompt
level of how things you know, like if you want
(10:57):
to do a pace walk, like this is what pace
looks like, you could do it, or you can like
if there's a video right there, it says, well, this
is what it looks like. And you have videos and
you can have articles that support the entire job function.
So it's quite comprehensive, so that leader is armed when
they go it on the floor to have that conversation.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I mean, that's huge to have all of that frontline
visibility right there in the moment as you're doing it
into where those skill gaps are and as I understand,
you know, once you've entered the information, it does give
you prompts to then say, oh, well, then this is
how you need to coach, or this is what you
need to say, or here's a video that you can
(11:35):
use to demonstrate. So how is that like really driving
that continuous improvement? Is that working to help develop those
team members into the more valuable team members that are
getting the work done? I mean, is it better than
(11:56):
traditional methods of just you know, having the shift meeting
at the end of the day and here's where we
were and oh I saw this and I saw that.
I mean, this feels a lot more personal and intentional.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yeah. I think the first thing is when we think
about the operation. Let's say you have two hundred people
on the floor. If you look at a bell curve
of their performance, it's going to be a bell curve
like there's people that fit there, and if we can
move that whole thing up into the right, we're winning.
And that's the results we see. We see productivity performance
(12:28):
depending on how you look at it. We've seen buildings
grow to ten percent improvement across the building. And what
we do see is we can see individuals improving fifteen
to twenty percent. Especially new people where their productivity goes
up that much, that's amazing. And the other thing that's
surprised us when we started doing this is the even
high performance performing people, their productivity went up six to
(12:51):
seven percent performance productivity depending again how you look at it.
And so that is that's meaningful to organizations where they've
invested hundreds of millions of dollars onto the labor on
the floor and it increases that return on invested capital.
It's like the most important thing that they do because
(13:13):
it's usually sixty to seventy percent if their spend is
on the labor. And that's just on productivity. We we'll
probably talk about retention and ramp time, but driving that
is just I mean, that's what they're looking for. That's
why these continuous improvement engineers are at these buildings, is
to support that execution and increasing that productivity from every
(13:35):
person on the floor.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
So you've given us a couple of examples of measurable outcomes.
What is like a standout, like the best customer significant
change that you've experienced with this tool.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
There was a large retailer. We started out with them
and we did three buildings and used the system, and
we were able to compare before and after, and there
was a couple of things that mattered. One is that
we saw buildings improve performance by ten to fifteen percent,
so that was huge. Then the other thing that was
exciting for them was retention, and retention increased before we
(14:20):
were there, they were at about forty eight percent retention
at one hundred and eighty days. And so this study
actually was over two years, thirty five hundred people. Okay,
so it was a big study. So forty eight percent
at one hundred and eighty days quick quits. They're just tough, right,
Like you lose people. If you can keep them using
to one hundred eighty, they're going to stay, right, So
(14:41):
that that's the goal. I mean, there's a lot of
ninety day quick quits, but we're thinking how do we
get them to one eighty because then they stay and
they are valuable to you've recouped your investment to get
that person's skill after using smart access. Again, this is
a two year study, thirty five hundred people. That retention
at one hundred eighty days was eighty five percent, so
they're only losing fifteen percent rather than fifty two percent.
(15:04):
So yeah, and we attribute that to a scaled engagement.
People know what they talk about when they get on
the floor, and they have that engagement across that network.
And you've been in these buildings. Some of them are dark.
Sometimes you're in the back corner in the stacks. It's
not like some people love it, like just don't talk
(15:24):
to me. But people are human. I treat them like humans.
They want to like, what does my boss even think
about me? Like? Am I going to get fired? And
what did I do? I didn't hit my goals? I
might like. So it just don't treat the people in
these buildings like just a number and just a unit
per hour, Like we got to think a little bit
differently about them. So anyway, that that was pretty exciting
(15:45):
for them, and they've since rolled across their entire network
and they spend about twenty five thousand hours a month
in the platform. They have a big network, so it's
a big deal.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Oh wow, that's huge. Well, and so I guess that
that leads to kind of a follow up question of
you know, yes, we do have workers who care and
who want to do a good job. We want to
treat them like humans. But we all know that there
are those employees that don't care, that are just there
(16:16):
because they need a paycheck or because lots of reasons.
My father worked in a production facility of food production
facility and warehousing in the Deep South, and there are
different attitudes toward work and especially toward manual, blue collar labor.
(16:36):
So how does this help when you're when you're dealing
with those individuals that are only there because they have
a bill to pay that would normally just you know,
make enough money to get to get by that month
and then say, Okay, well I don't want to work here,
so I'm not going to anymore.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yeah, well, sometimes just having a bill to pays enough
to keep you there. So that's a real like we
have all been there where it's like I got to
do this thing I don't like because I need, you know,
to pay my electricity bill. I think the way I've
always tried to build the software is to think about
the human that's on the other side, both the supervisor,
(17:17):
leader and the frontline worker. And when you engage I believe,
I mean, this is what I believe is that people
want to do meaningful work and if you can be
good at your job, even if it's just because I
need to pay the bills, I think that gives you,
I don't know, maybe a level of joy or completeness
(17:37):
as a human. So I think helping people be even
masters of the work, even if it's like a creuddy job,
I think is really important. Every one of us wants
to succeed in life, like we want to like make
progress and learn and be better. I think that's something
that's human. And so helping someone be excellent at work,
(17:57):
I think is a really noble thing. And these organizations,
if they can do that, that's the hard part is
like how do you make people care? And you see
it in these buildings, wonderful people that really do care
about these workers. Like you've been to their stand ups.
You've seen the way they congratulate each other, how they
help each other out. It's a really lively environment. And
(18:18):
sometimes people, you know, you just want to I've seen it,
like that guy's in the like odd shaped section of
shipping and like packaging and we just leave them be
and whatever, and that there's people like that and you
just need to me. But ultimately, if people can do
good work, I think that's what you can offer them
is that they can get their job done and do
(18:39):
it well. People will go through what they will. So
that's the way I see it.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I don't know well, and it reminds me. I don't
know if you've ever read the book Gung Ho. It
was really popular about twenty years ago. Was the first
time I was introduced to it, and it's a great book.
I've got it on my desk actually, and that was
one of the things I forget. It goes through a
couple different examples of animals, and one's the spirit of
(19:05):
the squirrel and then another one's a beaver. But one
of them is that, you know, people need to feel
like their work matters at the end of the day.
And I can see from a from a company's perspective,
of course you have you have goals, you have operational goals,
you have you know, throughput goals, But what does that
mean to the person and really personalizing that information and
(19:26):
not just you know, yeah, you hit the goal, congress,
you know you did your job, or you didn't hit
the goal. Now we're going to have corrective you know,
corrective action. And so I feel like this tool gives
them at least a little bit more insight into Okay,
not only how to do this more effectively or more efficiently,
(19:47):
but why it's important to or you know, there's probably
a safety concern. I know we're going to get into
that subject in just a minute, but it feels like
this this really gives that that supervisor, and to your point,
might be someone who doesn't necessarily have supervisory or managerial
training or expertise, but it gives them the ability to
(20:08):
put that that work into perspective for the employee.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yes. Yes, And it's such an interesting at least in
these buildings, is that it's an ecosystem, Like what you
do matters. Like if you don't clean as you go,
that means the next person does. If you don't level pick,
that means that the next person's got to reach in
to pick. You know, like it all matters. And if
you can work together and see that, I think it
(20:33):
makes a difference, then you feel like you're actually part
of a team. But if you don't have a mechanism
to bring that thinking in and scale it, then I
mean I had a customers say to me, you know
we did what smart Access did. We can't We tried it,
like we tried to get this done and maybe we
can find a good manager and a good couple of agms,
(20:55):
oms or whatever to do the work. But to scale
that across our network, we've tried and we can't do it.
And so this is just a tool to scale what
they already do. They all know that this stuff is important,
but now let's make it easier for them. Let's give
them the tool so they can stand on the tool
and just actually be engaging in connect with the people.
And these numbers that I was sharing, that's the proof
(21:17):
in it, and that's I think. We've talked to our
frontline workers and say, well, what do you think of
this observation, like we are observing you every ninety days,
and they say they really like it because it's like
someone's talking to me about my work. They're helping me
get better. And it's hard as a manager to get
off your seat you're looking at all these dashboards and
(21:37):
data points in their office, get out on the floor
and talk to the people that are producing for the business.
And so that retention number says to me a lot
about it's one thing to keep people, but it means
that we're doing the right things and helping them because
if they don't like it, they're out of there. Like
it's not it's their choice, like they have opportunities.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah, so does the platform interface with other functions of
personnel and employee retention, like you know, HR timekeeping or
even I mean we're talking about warehousing and distribution like
the WMS or the ERP system.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, so we bring the system is an open architecture,
so we love taking data and it's kind of the
place that data should reside because this is where the
rubber hits the road, right, it's on the floor. So
we take HRS data for your rosters and we push
information into learning management system. So almost every one of
our customers has a learning management system and uses us
(22:39):
as well because we're just we're at different angle on it.
We take in LM data if they don't have it.
Sometimes we'll take in WMS data. Time and attendance is
something that I think we're working on right now to
bring in. It's not that it's complicated, but we're using
that to make sure we know who's on shift so
that we can say, okay, like here's your labor, here's
(23:01):
your volume for the day, here's the people you have
on shift. Let's make sure that we have the right
people in the right places. And if we need to
move people, like if thing some conveyor goes down and
you've got to go fast and you've got to get
your cut time, we've got to move the right people over.
Sometimes you want to bring your best people. Sometimes you
want to bring those that need to become the best people,
and that decisions made on the floor. So giving that
(23:22):
visibility to frontline leadership is really valuable.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Yeah, which which asset, which individuals not assets? Which individuals
are available at any time?
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah, So I had touched on safety a little while back.
What types of what types of safety awareness or improvements
are ingrained or or a part of smart access. I
mean obviously you were you were talking about the the
forklifts or the machinery and getting out on the right
(23:55):
versus on the left, and you know that that comes
down to it's it's a safe safety issue because everyone
knows what the expectations are and when we're in these
large facilities, there's a lot of heavy moving equipment, there's
a lot of heavy palettes, and it's a dangerous working environment.
So safety has to be top priority for not only
(24:19):
the employees, but the managers and so what kind of
safety I guess awareness or learning and education is built
into these these standard operating procedures that you are showing
and evaluating.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
So there's two ways. One is consistently bringing a top
of mind. So there's organizations use smart access to do
safety observations, audits, and and because of the system manages compliance,
it helps you because it's easy to do. You pull
up your mobile device or a laptop or whatever, a
tablet and it's like you need to get your coverage.
(24:58):
It will tell you like who you need to speak
with and observe and coach people on. So that's a
very specific part of it that helps deliver the way
we need to behave to be safe on the floor,
and that's just scaling that and being consistent. That's number one.
But the other thing that happens is that sometimes we
(25:21):
think that we've told everyone how to be safe, but
we haven't. And so there is an interesting situation organization
they were doing breakpack and the person was not using
kevlar gloves to open up right, So that's a safety issue.
So the person raises it. They raised it within smart
(25:41):
Access or feedback loop and it goes back and we
have the sop and the doesn't say that you need
to use kevlar gloves. So nobody is saying use kevlar gloves. Well,
obviously that's an oversight. Let's fix that, right. So what
happened it was actually fascinating. So this was in Dallas,
someone says, we don't have the sop for using flour gloves. Well,
change it in the sop immediately in smart access. That
(26:05):
then changes it in the observation. The very next day
in Sacramento, the same observation was completed and they said
we don't, oh, we need to use kevlar gloves. We
actually don't have kevlar gloves on site. We need to
get Keller gloves. And so from the fundamental way of operating,
(26:26):
because the system is on the floor pulling in information
from the floor and has all of the standards inside
of it, we can now change and so for safety,
the change just happened organically. Everyone just like, oh, now
we need gloves and let's get that going. And then
the platform also does. This is something new for us
is that this is a funny example in some ways
(26:48):
is we have what are called action plans where we
can roll out change to the buildings. So now we
have an action a way to build in the platform
to say, okay, everyone, Kevler gloves are coming to your building.
Do you have it? Now that you have it? Is
it on the floor now that program's running SOPs change observations.
It's our new standard we use Kevler gloves in this area.
(27:10):
So it does everything because we're trying to think like, well,
what are these this is the job of these execution,
these people to execute. The burn of execution is on them.
How do we scale that? And that's one thing the
platform does, and it helps with the change management as well,
because it's all about getting the sustainability out of the
front line. So that's how we care about.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
That's huge.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
That is that is so huge.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
So what really brought about the inspiration for this, because
you seem incredibly passionate about it. Is this something that
you saw the problem and decided to develop a platform
or was it something that was just always kind of
in the back of your head getting percolating and working on.
(27:53):
Was it one horrendous incident.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
No, it was more of I think I'm interested in
systems and when you go into any process driven labor market.
What you see is there's things happening on the floor
and there's management, and management says they just need to
do this thing, and the front line says, if management
(28:20):
understood how things really work, they wouldn't ask us to
do that one thing. So you just see that and
it's like an age old problem, like this is around forever.
And I was it was a weird thing. I was
reading about Napoleon and it was just a small thing
about his rise to power. And the reason why Napoleon
rose to power is he allowed his armed forced people
(28:43):
to have backpacks. And I believe they'd never backpacks were
never used until this moment. I may not be like,
I might be remembering it wrong, but essentially it gave
everyone backpacks. So there's these people and they were fighting
the Prussians, and the Prussians were very like in line,
executed to perfection, and Napoleon said, here's a backpack. Take
(29:05):
everything you need so when you're on the battlefield you
can make the changes and you can address the enemy.
And so they would hide because they didn't do it
like the Prussians. They would hide behind fences and go
on rooftops and they decimated them. And what happens is
you brought down the information to the level of the battlefield.
You gave them the power to make changes and to
attack the problems as they saw. And so that was
(29:27):
the inspiration. I was like, Oh, all these software systems
are top down pushing, pushing down. What happens And the
experiment was, what happens if you give the power to
the floor and will they push up? And that's exactly
what they do. The truth is on the floor, it's
in the execution, it's in the behaviors. So let's give
them the ability to see the behaviors and then the
(29:51):
feedback loop to make the changes. And that is what
is so powerful about smart access. It's not the software,
it's the frame and the system of pushing from the
bottom up into from the floor up, and that's where
the power is because that's where all these people are
there for one reason is to support the front line,
and that's why we built the software. So there's a
(30:12):
long story on how we got there. We were working
with a retailer and they just introduced us to distribution.
I was like, oh my gosh, these people really need
this help because it's a really defined and necessary work,
like we really actually need you to do it this
way because it matters to us. And trying to do
that to a person is very hard. No one, I'm
not easy to Like, maybe you're the same, but if
(30:33):
someone tells me to do something exactly a certain way,
I don't want to do that.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Naturally, Absolutely, there's that just don't. I don't know if
it's it's some sort of edo something, just pushing back
and saying no, why why.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
I don't want to do it that way.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
I'm smarter than the exactly that would be my sixteen
year old pushing back and say saying why do I
need to do this this way? And so then you
have to go through the whole explanation of well, if
you do it your way, this is the result, and
if you do it my way, this is the result.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, And it's a great example. And that's what it's
like in these buildings, Like we meet organizations and it's like, well,
at our building, we do it this way, and then
the continuous improvement person's going, are you kidding me? That is?
I get it, but that doesn't like we have the
whole picture. And so that's the struggle. And so we
(31:34):
want to bring that information down to the floor so
that everyone can see what's happening, so we can make
it make it work for everyone. So that's the inspiring.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Do you get a lot of pushback from employees who
are who are in these situations where they're like, yeah,
there's there's what said, and then there's what's done. You know,
this standard operating procedure is not standard in the least.
This is not the way we do it here. But
it's because this is the way we've always done it.
Overcoming that objection and that that attitude that just straight now,
(32:10):
how does how does that work?
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Because yeah, I built this software. I wish I could
experience it more, but I'm in buildings a lot. I
think that there is that part. But that's what we
built into the software to surface that information. So anywhere
along when you're observing or skill building someone or certifying someone,
(32:34):
there's places in the software to feedback in and we
get it a lot. This doesn't apply to us, We
don't do it here. All that that information is rich
for continuous improvement and industrial enginey they what do you mean
you don't do it that way? This is the way
we need you to do it well why, and they
can actually collaborate and dialogue within the platform to surface
those things that are like and people learn like there's
(32:57):
there's people on the floor can tell you how to
do it better, and if they listen to it, they're
going to improve their organization. It's just there's all these
minds out there that could be helpful. You might as
well leverage them. You're paying them to be in your building.
They are a resource for you on how to make
things better, and so it goes both ways, of course.
But yeah, we've been we really were conscious that in
(33:19):
the platform, let's allow them to feedback that we need
to hear from them.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
And that's huge because there are a lot of in
the logistics industry. There's there's a lot of especially in
the past few years, we lost a lot of people
through COVID just because you know, the world shut down.
Some of this work was deemed necessary, some of it wasn't,
and people just decided, I mean a lot of the
(33:43):
older workforce just decided this is this is not worth
my effort anymore. I'm just going to retire now, retire
a little early and just be done with work. And
we lost a lot of tribal knowledge and just a
lot of historical data that went with them because it
was their way of doing it and not the standard
operating procedure that's outlined in a dusty binder somewhere on
(34:06):
the shelf. So I feel like this gives at least
the opportunity to capture some of that while it's still there,
while these people are still on the floor, at least
from the ones who are still around, to not lose
potentially good information because the reason they're doing it differently
(34:29):
may not make sense to management, but it does make
sense to those people on the floor. They do it
that way for a reason. They buck the system for
a reason, because whatever they've decided to do or however
they've decided to do it was born out of a
necessity somewhere along the line.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
And it's either I need to be faster, I got
to get my job done, or this doesn't hurt my
back to do it this way, and the way you
told me to do it might hurt, like you know
what I mean. There is a reality to execution that
isn't in the binder, and that's why we built our
SOP module. We weren't thinking about it, but we're just like, oh,
like this is a dead document. If it became a
(35:08):
living document with inputs from the floor all the time,
it gets better, like it becomes stronger, and it helps
everyone in the whole chain of operations make better decisions.
And so we see people and sometimes people will chase
the dollar and the pay, like, let's give them more
money to do that, and I think you should like
(35:29):
pay them really well, like this is hard work and
they deserve it. But chasing people with the dollar is
one way to do it. But also chasing them but
let's do excellent work, I think is more sustainable and
long lasting. And we all part of the stories of
certain organizations that if you don't hit your number, you're out,
and those people end up at other organizations and they
want to be in a rich environment where they can
(35:50):
do their work. And so if you can make that
a better place for them to work, they can do
good work. They aren't going to chase the dollar. They're
going to chase being part of the team. And that
does not mean that we're just trying to drive down
the pay, like we need to be able to make
a living here. But it maybe brings the wrong behavior
if you're chasing that potentially.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yeah, possibly, So what other trends? I mean, we've seen
a decline in the amount of labor in this sector,
so people are not looking for these jobs. They're not
searching for them, they're not interested in them. In many cases,
they tend to just go to whoever's available in that
(36:34):
geography who needs jobs. And it's even that's declining because
better and more fun jobs are available out there. Like
you said earlier, you know, standing around in a warehouse
is not the most glamorous job. So I mean that's
one trend that's on the horizon, is we're losing labor
force in this area. But what other.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Trends are you seeing?
Speaker 2 (36:57):
I mean you see fulfillment centers and distribution centers and warehousing.
What's happening there that we need to get ahead of
and what is smart access trying to get ahead of there?
Speaker 3 (37:09):
I think number one is we're trying to not I
think we're starting from a position is this is valuable,
important work and we need to respect the effort. I
think that's like the fundamental part of it. And that
doesn't mean it's not hard and that we don't have
high expectations, but we make sure that and I see
that in the people and the folks in the buildings.
(37:31):
I think that automation is coming. It's getting more and
more prevalent, and so I think people's jobs may become Again,
this is all active theory. I would say, I'm not
an expert on labor markets or anything and how they
really work, but I think that automation will change the
work that's done in these buildings and people will interact
(37:51):
more with machines and help those machines run. And so
I think that's a positive thing. Like if a machine
can do the work, the heavy lifting, so to speak,
then you can be part of that that that's a
good thing. I think that I know that we're bringing
a lot of AI into the work, into the leadership
on the floor, and that's supporting the work. And then
(38:16):
of course, I mean people think about robots and they
think that they're coming and they're going to replace people
and different things, and I would just I get the
sense of expansion. If AI increases GDP by ten percent.
I heard someone say, well, what do you think is
going to happen? Just more so there's going to be
more demand, more complexity, more like I want my stuff
(38:36):
delivered faster, and I want it done more precise, Like
it just becomes more so that I think that the
work is actually going to get harder to satisfy that
end user, your SLA, if you're a third party logistics company,
it's just it's going to get harder. So we're going
to need more systems, more automation. I think overall it's
just expansion, and we're going to need even more people too.
(38:59):
I don't think it's going to be less people. I
think it's gonna be more. Like I was on site
with an organization. They're putting in this huge like hive
cold storage hive and they're moving everything. It's like a
dark place. That building is going to double in size
headcount to support that. So it's not like it's shrinking
now the work they're doing the stream they need less
of this certain thing, but more people managing the robots
(39:22):
and the thing. So I guess I would just my
belief in transit. It's more expansion, bigger, faster.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
That's great in our industry.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Yes, absolutely, yeah it is. It is so, and I
think this group is really resilient, like they're getting hit
like tariffs are happening. And this is just a comment,
but the tariffs are happening. And I asked them what
do you think? What do you think? And they just say,
We're just going to keep executing. We know how to
do this. We've been through COVID. We figured out how
to survive difficult times and there was more resilient than ever.
(39:54):
So more change, they're going to be able to handle it.
I'm excited about watching these people figure it out. It's exciting.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Absolutely, Just like me sleeping in the Miami Airport at eighteen,
I learned how to manage to get through anything.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
That's fine, that's right, absolutely absolutely well.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
That brings us to the end of our episode. Thank
you so much, Tim for joining me today and telling
us a little bit more about this tool and what
you've seen going on in these types of facilities. It's
been great to have you on the show.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Thank you so much. This has a great conversation.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Thanks Ellen to our listeners. If you've found today's episode valuable,
please be sure to follow Speaking of Supply Chain on
whichever platform you get your podcasts and share it with
someone who's shaping the future of operations.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Meeboch Consulting is one of the largest and most globally
recognized supply chain consulting, engineering, and advisory firms. For nearly
fifty years, we've helped clients achieve supply chain excellence and
sustainable competitive advantage across the entire spectrum of the supply
chain by delivering improvements and innovation strategically, tactically, and digitally.
(41:10):
To learn more, visit meeboch dot com. You've been listening
to Speaking of Supply Chain, a meboch podcast, keep connected
with us by subscribing to the show in your favorite
podcast player. If you like what you've heard, please rate
the show that helps us to keep delivering the latest
in supply chain information. Thanks for listening. Until next time.
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