October 2, 2025 • 50 mins
The warehouse labor gap isn’t going away.
Turnover is high, workers are hard to find, and the demand for faster fulfillment keeps climbing. Robotics and AI aren’t just about efficiency anymore—they’re reshaping how companies keep people safe, engaged, and focused on the work that matters.
In this episode, Ellen Wood sits down with Dr. Jan Zizka, CEO of Brightpick, to explore how automation is transforming the warehouse floor. From reducing injury risk to opening up new career paths in robotics, Jan shares how technology is helping facilities build resilience in the face of ongoing labor shortages.
In this episode:
Turnover is high, workers are hard to find, and the demand for faster fulfillment keeps climbing. Robotics and AI aren’t just about efficiency anymore—they’re reshaping how companies keep people safe, engaged, and focused on the work that matters.
In this episode, Ellen Wood sits down with Dr. Jan Zizka, CEO of Brightpick, to explore how automation is transforming the warehouse floor. From reducing injury risk to opening up new career paths in robotics, Jan shares how technology is helping facilities build resilience in the face of ongoing labor shortages.
In this episode:
- Why warehouses face growing labor shortages and turnover challenges
- How Brightpick’s automation makes work safer and more sustainable
- The new roles emerging as humans and robots collaborate inside facilities
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Everybody wants to push the innovation further, and that is
also creating, you know, a lot of interesting opportunities. Robot
technician will be as common as plumber or electrician in
your house is the same.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I agree, and I think one of the things that
draws an interesting parallel here if we look back at production,
and we look back historically over the last hundred years,
we had people, usually men, who were in these facilities,
and they were the engineers or the repair guys, or
the guys who worked on the machines, and they were
the ones who were in charge of maintaining this equipment
(00:34):
and making sure that it worked. So I think that
this is just the next evolution of that. Hello and
welcome to Speaking of Supply Chain, where we explore trends,
current events, and innovations impacting the logistics and supply chain industries.
I'm your host, Ellen Wood. Labor shortages, high turnover and
(00:55):
safety risks continue to challenge warehouses, with some facilities seeing
annual turnover rates above forty percent. At the same time,
demand for faster, more reliable fulfillment has never been greater.
I'm joined today by doctor jan Jishka to explore how
bright pick is using robotics and AI not just to
boost efficiency, but to create safer, more sustainable, and more
(01:18):
engaging workplaces for the people who keep supply chains moving.
Welcome ya, thank you. It's great to have you here today.
Before we get started, let's jump into our icebreaker, and
today's question is as a child, what did you want
to be when you grew up?
Speaker 1 (01:36):
So I don't remember exactly, but my mother told me
that when I was really young, I told something like
I was very impressed by, you know, trash man and
the you know, I think that the mechanical car was
very interesting to me or something like that. So the
very first one later, I think I promised to my
(01:58):
parents that I will I will paint a picture and
solid for one million. The second so it looks like,
you know, the ambition was up and down.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, you know what, I can understand that I have
little boys myself, and anything with a big truck that
moves big things, whether it's construction equipment or the trash truck,
they are very excited about that. So I feel like
that seems pretty reasonable for all little boys they want
to drive the big trucks. Let's see for myself when
I was really little. I mean, of course, when you're
(02:33):
when you're very small, you have all sorts of dreams.
But once I was actually thinking about realistically what I
wanted to do, I wanted to be an art teacher
at the at the elementary or you know, an primary
school level. I wanted to be an art teacher, and
I started pursuing that career and then realized very quickly
(02:54):
that I would not be I don't have the patience
to be a teacher. I love art and I love kids.
I love my kids. I love doing art, but trying
to turn it into a profession was just not going
to work for me. So I had to abandon that
fairly early. And then I thought I might be a
marine biologist for a while. But yeah, I don't know
(03:17):
why that kind of fell by the wayside. I think
life just, you know, started taking me in a different direction,
and I really enjoyed some of the other things I
was doing, so I just kind of dropped that one.
There wasn't any you know, big dramatic thing like there
was with trying to be an art teacher. But yeah,
I've explored a lot of different careers over over the
(03:38):
time that I've been working. But now I think that
what we what were interested in as small children gives
a lot of insight into where our mind is looking.
So let's see if we can get into some of
those technical aspects of big trucks that appealed to you
so early in your childhood. In our discussion today, which
(03:58):
is about robotic picking and using robots within the four
walls of a facility, mostly fulfillment centers, but you know
there is the opportunity in just regular warehouses as opposed
to giant dcs. So let's talk a little bit about
some of the labor issues that are affecting warehouses today.
(04:20):
And I know that my information is mainly about the US,
but I know some of these things are universal and
globally applicable. So labor shortage, I was talking about it
just a minute ago. And sometimes those rates, those turnover
rates are as high as forty percent, and it's becoming
very difficult for especially US companies to employ people who
(04:43):
want to work in a warehouse or a fulfillment center.
And there are a lot of different reasons for it,
and we could get into those, but I think the
net of that conversation is it's not going to change.
We're not going to all of a sudden get this
generation of workers who want these more manual positions, who
(05:03):
want this you know, it's heavy work, it's physical work,
and I think as a society we're starting to move
away from some of those types of professions with the
advent of some of this technology that is available. So
from your perspective, is there anything else that's driving that
gap other than the labor market pulling away from those
(05:26):
more manual types of job positions.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So in general, I would compare it directly to you know,
agriculture and industryal revolution. It's very very similar from some viewpoint, Like,
you know, even one hundred years ago, still there was
a lot of people working in agriculture. Today it's very
little and and yes, people have to invent machines to
kind of solve that issue to some extent. But again,
(05:52):
solving that issue is pulling that those people out of
those jobs even more from some viewpoints. So I would
say it is part actually chicken egg, but definitely the
primary driver is exactly as you're told. It's just people today.
You know, in many cases, I tell that today everybody
wants to be YouTube ery. So that is still you know,
(06:14):
kind of much more attractive job compared to you know, walking.
I think in many cases it's uh, you know, five
even maybe maybe ten miles per day. In many cases
in manual fulfillment centers, it's not really you know, in
principle your boss is hunting that pickerate. There's not much
(06:37):
fun into it. You know. It's probably from like mentally,
it's a pretty simple job from some viewpoint. Physically it's
quite difficult. It's very rapy table and and I just
feel like there's not much sunlight in those warehouses. You know,
there's I would say a lot of aspects and people
don't see it. In many cases warehouses are kind of clean.
(06:58):
It''s not terrible, but it's not exactly fancy office space,
you know. So I would say there's a lot of
small details that simply add up and and it's simply
not attractive, you know. And if we would and we
don't need to do that, but if we would do
some kind of pool like, we would get clearly clear results.
(07:20):
And the result is you know, if you if you
open today, you know, indeed or glass door or whatever,
any of these platforms, probably there's like between fifty to
one hundred thousand open positions, and that is specifically wair
house speaker. You know, it's not a fair house worker
or something, it's warehouse speaker. And it's really high number.
And and this number is so to some extent we
(07:44):
increase automation, but it's still kind of little from some viewpoint.
And I remember I'm checking the number, you know, maybe
each quarter, and it's kind of the same. Of course,
during the peak season is even higher, you know, when
Amazon and Walmart and other companies are hire even more.
But it's simply a huge number of people. And and
(08:05):
as you say, like like it's definitely is not going
to improve, and I would say it's clear it's going
to be worse. You know, it's like it's obviate that
it's going to be worse. And plus there's also different
factors like in many cases you want to have a
warehouse outside of the city, if your last mile allows
that it's outside of the city, potentially quite far around
(08:28):
the city. Again, you know, the other adding another argument
like I have seen actually people really organizing a special
bus tours for those workers to even get them there,
you know, so it's like a special line in principle,
so and and maybe as you said, forst and Plant,
(08:50):
I can compare Asia, I don't know much, but the
Europe and the US I can compare quite well. And
I think it's almost exactly the same. The only difference
I probably see mainly in let's say Central Europe Germany,
is that there's a lot of people from more like
Eastern Europe, you know, because it's more or less free market,
(09:12):
you know, labor market. Of course, there are some limitations,
but it's it's kind of easy, and those people usually
would would earn let's say, half maybe third of the
salary in their original country, so it's kind of simple
to Sometimes they even travel like regularly, you know, for
example to Germany and so on. On the other side,
(09:34):
we see that German companies they are they are moving
their warehouses for example, to each other public or Poland
or whatever, Slovakia and so on. So it's kind of
people are trying to solve that problem, and it's partially
about cost efficiency. But I would say that is in
(09:55):
principle totally secondary. You know, I remember very well, you know,
I have been I don't know, maybe fifty warehouses and
and and maybe warehouse number ten I have ever seen.
I remember the manager telling me that, yeah, I'm so tired.
I was like, okay, well what is wrong? And he's like,
I'm doing interview number I don't know, twenty today or
(10:18):
something like that. You know, looks like his on the
main job was he was like a manager in all
the given very house and looked like he's spending a
lot of time with interviews. And he was really telling
that and it's almost baste of time. Because I hire someone,
the chance they will show up is fifty percent. You know,
(10:39):
it was not fifty you know, he was kidding, but
I think he was. He meant like maybe ten percent
they don't show up, which is still very high. You know,
if you if you have all that effort, maybe you
see ten people. Then you say like and then the
guy is not, you know, showing up. I think it's
really almost you know, you describe it well that the
(11:00):
turnover is forty percent, you kind of you know, replaces
all the people so often. Oh yeah, I would say,
how to tell it from A big part is a
motivation of those managers. You know, of course it's the
owner of the warehouse. But ultimately I think it's just
very difficult for those managers.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, I think there are a number of factors that
affect the volatility of that, whether it's the seasonality where
people people need jobs all year around, not just when
the employers need workers, and so you know, that's a
detriment to an employee for you know, even signing up
for that type of labor knowing that it's temporary, or
you know, knowing that it is that. I don't want
(11:45):
to say that that these types of facilities are are
uncomfortable or or unpretty to work in. I mean, it's
it's a warehouse. It is what it is. But it's
it's honest work. It pays well for those who who
want to, you know, participate in it. But you know,
to your point, when labor is scarce in a particular area,
(12:06):
sometimes that it ought to be a factor when companies
are building their facilities. It's it's clearly something that they
need to address in that location evaluation. However, things change
over time and if that, you know, local community disperses
and then that facility is left without labor, they're kind
(12:29):
of in a tough situation looking at potentially moving their
entire location to where the labor is or having to
come up with a different solution, whether the labor has left,
whether the labor in the area is not interested. Automation
is a solution, and that's where bright pick comes in.
So I think when we start looking at some of
(12:53):
these improvements and reducing that dependence on the manual picking
and we start bringing in some automation, does it allow
them to you know, work alongside the automation. What does
it do in terms of you know, safety and security
or accuracy for that warehouse, Because that is a very
big decision to have to come to to start replacing
(13:15):
part of your workforce with an automated solution. And these
I mean this is not you know, some some small solution.
This is this is a major undertaking. So I know
companies need to do their due diligence and understand what
the costs are going to be. You know, where are
they able to recoup some of that in whether it's
(13:36):
a direct cost or an indirect cost like employee safety.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
I think you know, for me, I have seen it
in many cases. You know, it's either our automation, different
types of automation. Before I work more for automotive. You know,
similar story from some Vipan and I think the major
point for me is that they always keep the best people,
you know, the people who are probably longer with the company,
(14:01):
people who who who had you know, pretty good pickert,
who who was kind of active, engaged, and ultimately I
feel like, okay, that's a that's a great news from
some viewpoint, you know that it's nobody is really I
think the best pickers. You know, it's like it's clearly
the some kind of assets they have, you know, and
they're very proud probably and and and that that means
(14:26):
we are potentially improving that the job for for those
who were engaged and who wanted to help, you know,
in that given warehouse. So from this weep and I
think it's it's it's pretty good in terms of you know,
the all the walking distance and these I would say
it's obvious that they suddenly have to walk muchulized. That's
kind of obvious, you know. Benefit We always explore that
(14:48):
for example, when you have G two P station or
or you do resktock of our system or any of these, uh,
you still have to be there either you know, for
ours with some break or you know, maybe even seven hours.
I'm not sure you know, depends on the country and
then the rules. So you know, in many case we
also explore like it has to be at least somehow ergonomic,
(15:12):
you know, because still it's usually standing, not sitting, you know,
so it's usual standing. So in many cases we even
kind of intentionally introduce few steps between the peaks because
I think just standing, you know, I would hate it.
So in many cases I think doing those you know,
two steps left, two STAPs right. I think it in
(15:34):
principle it's a good thing, you know, because at least
you are moving. And and also I would say you
are probably adjusting your posture or how to tell it,
you know, it's it's kind of because because otherwise you
are probably leaning, you know, in that one spot here
you have to walk, and walking is actually very you know,
good for your you know, how you stand or how
(15:54):
to tell it. So from the oop, and I think
there's a lot of small details that could be of
course improved. You know, It's not like suddenly it's you know,
pure heaven and you like, it's still the same very house.
It's still you know, the same environment and so on,
still not so much sunlight. But but I think what
they really appreciate is I think suddenly they are working
(16:16):
with you know, in our case like really cutting the
high end robot. We also try to be you know,
more more human. Let's call it. You know, every robot
has its name, you know, so they they really like it,
you know, they call it like okay, Carl, you know whatever, James,
you know, and so on and so on, so uh
(16:37):
and and pluss our robots are are you know, collaborative,
so they are really working in the same environment. After
Still you have to be careful. It cannot you know,
jump from the wreck in front of the robot and
similar things. But I think it's still very you know
safe and and and from this viewpoint it's not so visible.
(16:57):
But but again that was another manager telling me once
that they have some kind of injury almost every day
and it's like, okay, what is happening. It's just people walking,
you know, what is what is wrong? And he's like, okay,
but they are pulling or pushing you know, big wreck.
You know, it could be even fifty kilograms maybe even
more so it cannot stop so quickly and it's mainly
(17:19):
you know traffic jam, like it's people suddenly in one
spot you know, someone is behind the corner just jumping
in front of your card, you are hitting him with
the card or you know, just maybe falling. It was
not like you know, mortal you know some some some
crazy things. It was it was really simple things. But
(17:40):
he told that, yes, we have small injuries almost every day. Yeah,
and I was a little surprised. And yes, it's it's
suddenly much easier with robots because kind of the traffic
jam is mostly between the robots. Suddenly, you know, there's
much less humans and they are there, I would say,
much better organized. You know, they are either in the
(18:01):
grip to person station or close to restore station or somewhere.
So it's suddenly, you know, yes, not so not so dense,
and I would say it is definitely lowering the chance
of injury.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
All right, so let's talk a little bit more about
the uh the bright pic Giraffe, which is a new
storage density solution and it increases that density by up
to three times if I have that correct. So what
does that translate into in terms of reduction of labor
(18:39):
needs when you've got that's that robotic, that automatic storage
solution that's going to go and pick from that location
you've got that density. So obviously our listeners out there
probably understand the difference between a manual warehouse and an
automated warehouse. Hopefully they've they've seen an example of both.
I know I have, you know, manual warehouses, you've got
(19:02):
a much wider aisle, so you're spending a lot of
space on you know, the ability to move within that facility,
whether you need a forklift, whether you've got a manual
palette jack or anything of that sort, you have to
be able to maneuver. Whereas within the automated facilities and
these very highly automated facilities, that robot whether it's Carl
(19:24):
or James or whatever you name it, so that you
can make the repair to the right one when it
needs it and differentiate between the various components. You know,
those need a very a much smaller space in order
to go up so that that racking aisle is is
much more condensed and you're able to fit much more
in that in that square footage because you have this
(19:45):
robot that doesn't need all of that maneuverability. So when
we're looking at these and looking at this one specifically,
where are we looking in terms of that labor reduction
or optimizing how much time HU means spend in that area,
and is is that a genuine ROI or is it
(20:07):
just a trade off?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Great question, So how exactly as we described it, it's impressible.
In development of giraffe, the kind of the biggest challenge
was that we wanted to have still the narrow aisle
out topicker is three three meter tall and the aisle
is I think ninety meters or something like the ninety
two ninety four depending on the you know, how flat
(20:32):
is the surface actually the flop floor, I mean, And
here the challenge was that, okay, we want to go
to six meters. So suddenly you see that the base
is compared to to how tall is the robot, it's
one to six, you know, more than one to six.
So but we we we we were able to still
(20:53):
make it. It was not simple, but we were able
to make it. And that means those us are still
very narrow. And I would even say that for humans
it's it's like borderline comfort table, if you if you
can imagine, it's really not not much, but you know,
there's no motivation for people to be there. You know,
mostly you know this part is kind of fully automated.
(21:13):
You know, there's no point for people to be there.
Uh so uh, the kind of im mediate you know,
the outcome is that when when you when you are
two times taller, kind of the era you use is
two times smaller, and and that is of course super
difficult with with humans. Like either you are building completely
(21:36):
new mezzagine and so like another floor which is usually
quite expensive and and not exactly modular. You know, people
tell it's modular, but but usually it's there at least
ten years. Nobody's building you know, mezzagine for one year,
so uh and otherwise simply people cannot reach, you know,
(21:56):
even even three meters it's already challenging, you know, so
and then uncomfortable and then probably not very secure six
meters it's impossible. So so from this viewpoint, we say,
in some cases we tell that one goal could be that, okay,
let's improve efficiency of people. But in some cases you
(22:20):
could tell that, okay, it's it's like let's build superhuman
or out at all. You know, I want to reach
like a giraph you know, this is the name. You know,
there's the logic I want to reach so high, so
you know, sometimes we are kidding that we should build
cheetah now, you know, to be super fast, you know,
and so on. So so I think it is really
you know, now when you see all the humanoids and
(22:42):
you know, the entire trend, sometimes people look at the
problem like like, let's let's be as good as as
humans and or people. And I'm like, okay, I want
to go further, you know, I want to reach higher,
I want to be faster. And ultimately that's yes, it's like,
let's built super humans, you know, and an autopicker, and
(23:02):
you have to some extent, you know, of course, it's
it has some superhuman capabilities, you know. And I think
that's where ah, it's it's different, you know. It's it's
not you are not you are not replacing labor. You
know you are. You are you have solution that is
simply better than the previous one. And of course the
side effect is that you replace some some labor. And
(23:26):
I think that's perfectly fine. You know. We you know,
now you have washing machine, you have you know, dishwasher,
you know, you have all those nations that are improving
your life and and and simply that progress. It's interesting
that you know, people will never stop, you know, me
definitely not. You know, like I it's kind of my
you know, like I have to do it. You know,
(23:47):
when I see that someone could be done better or
more efficient, I want to do it. And nothing's perfectly fine.
And as we as we just concluded in the previous topic,
it's kind of in hand, you know, like people don't
want to have those jobs. We have solutions that is
solving that problem. Okay, perfect, how is it? Well?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
No, And you make an excellent point that you know,
as a society, we have automation to do the things
that we feel are drudgery. A dishwasher, a washing machine,
even a clothes dryer, which is even less prevalent because
a lot of people still use you know, lines to
dry their clothing. And but we do embrace those opportunities
(24:31):
to find the automation that releases us from having to
do the work that we don't want to do. And
I feel like that's what the statistics and the trends
are telling us in terms of warehouse labor, is people
aren't wanting to do this particular labor, so it makes
sense to have this automated solution. One thing I would question,
(24:51):
because we talked about it earlier in terms of a
disparity between different regions of the world different markets. For
one thing, in the UA, while we you know, do
have a forty percent turnover labor rate when it comes
to warehousing, we also have a ton of space. So
for companies looking to place a warehouse or a facility
(25:12):
in the US where they're going to manage their distribution,
they have square footage available to them at relatively reasonable cost.
I mean, there's always a cost, but the cost of
going out is typically a lot less than the cost
of going up. Now, in other areas of the world,
that's not as much of an option. We've got the
(25:33):
population density in Europe, we've got the Asian markets where
they're it's super dense, and so you know, when companies
are looking to have a fulfillment center near these largely
densely populated areas, they have to make this trade off.
First of all, they know that the people in the
cities are not as willing to do this type of labor,
(25:54):
and second, land availability is scarce, so going up makes
a lot more sense. And enter the giraffe and being
able to support that facility's aims and goals. So I
think when we talk about the concept of robots taking
jobs away from people, you know, what types of things
(26:16):
do you talk about with your clients when you're discussing
these types of technology implementations. You know, if there is
that pushback of you know, we don't want to take
jobs away from people, because that argument has to come
up more than once again.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Going back to the managers I was mentioning, I think
in many cases, maybe five six years ago it was
maybe a little different. But today I would say every
single manager I see or supply chain office here and
so on, I would say they are nobody's really discussing
(26:56):
if automation is kind of table or or efficient. I
would say we are probably over that period. And I
would say again going back to the hiring and training,
you know, we were not mentioning that all that trending necessary.
Then again, you know the guy is not showing up
and so on. So so I would say, it is
(27:17):
forcing almost everybody into into automation. And isn't that I
think again, maybe maybe ten years ago, five years ago technologies,
maybe we're not so major it was not so clear.
Today you can count it probably probably hundreds of thousands
(27:38):
of robots in their houses. Uh, you know Amazon itself,
it's it's already one million if I remember correctly. You know,
it's kind of funny. They are one of the largest
manufacturers of robots in the world, you know, Amazon, but
if you count all the rest, you know, including US,
it is already hundreds of towns of robots. And simply
(28:01):
it's proven. I feel that there's very little arguments against
the automation. And and even even again, maybe five years ago,
probably common row I was sometimes maybe even ten years
when when it was very complex, you know, big automation,
(28:23):
but probably it was suitable for maybe twenty years, so
it's okay. Then then people started to develop more kind
of compact quickly to deploy solutions and and and I
think that also plus, you know, like technological component motors
PLC is whatever, any any of those components, they are
cheaper riders. All of that is going down. And that
(28:46):
really means that today you can really get I would
say three years is in many cases simple, two years,
it is feasible in many cases. Plus you have robotics
as a service, you know, which is kind of in
mediate ROI from some point. So all of that I
would say, I really, I'm struggling to find, you know,
some some real arguments. I think. Still sometimes it's really
(29:09):
like it integration, you know, because it's for some reason
sometimes companies struggle with them. And and maybe still it
takes some time and some effort, and and and I
would say there's still some small risks connected to that.
I would say, it's pretty small. I like, we have
very good experience, you know, so so I do. But
(29:30):
but I understand, I understand that someone who never did
any automation, he he can still see automation as some
kind of risk. It's it's perfectly fun. And you know
that's why we are here, you know, as other other
players in the industry to convince them. But again, I
and you know, what I wanted to tell is that, honestly,
I haven't heard someone telling me that what we will
(29:53):
do like there was there was one case where it
was more like, let's really talk about you know, ergonomics,
you know, how to make it comfortable, how to and
all these I would say, they still deeply care about
the employees, you know that that is still perfectly fun.
And I would say, this is this is probably something
(30:15):
that we should solve. So long term, you know, like
like it should be still very very human or you know,
it should be and and I mean the collaboration, the
kind of kind of that feeling, you know, because you know,
we don't want people to be seen as a you know,
s kind of you know, terminator whatever you know it
(30:36):
should be. You know, ideally it is perceived as Okay,
this is helping me, is helping company. Uh, you know,
it's it's making that company probably more profitable, so probably
my job is maybe even more safe, and so on
and so on. I would say that's we need to
create good perception. But I think it's it's it's perfectly fun.
You know, over over the last five years, as I said,
(31:00):
it's default, and people really are not questioning aut to
mention anymore.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah, I think I've seen that as well, where the
idea of automation is less controversial in that regard because
it's not so much about the people, although you know,
we do want to make sure that people are employed. However,
I think one of the things that you just brought up,
and it kind of leads into my next question, is
(31:28):
how can companies use those robotics as part of a
broader labor strategy. So they're not just hiring those entry
level unskilled workers, but now they're looking to attract and
retain talent that can help move their organization forward toward
their own goals. So you were mentioning it being, you know,
(31:48):
an area where a lot of times that could be
the sticking point in getting an automated solution is having
the IT infrastructure in place. And this opens up the
opportunity for skilled individuals who who have these capabilities to
be able to come in and work alongside these technologies
in order to move the organization further, you know, in
(32:10):
their own aims. So what other parts of you know,
or what other areas can people be working alongside these
these technologies in these facilities. That's going to open up
the labor market for these companies exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
You know, that's a great question, right. I like this
one because you know, in many cases I talk about
it that you know, I'm really convinced that in the future,
one of the top positions, top jobs we will see
is you know, robot maintenance, robot technician. You know, even
today we have many of them, and and and simply
it's you know, it's like a manager of robots you know,
(32:50):
if you want to talk in human language or how
And partially it's it's really operational, you know, how to
help those robots to solve potentially something that is you know,
complicated or or kind of like h case that they
have never seen. You know. It's all also connected to
all the AI. You know, AI is working, works you
(33:10):
know very well. You know it like we do all
the picking. There's a lot of things where where you
can use it. But still, you know, I remember cases
where I don't know, we have seen you know, it
was a box and usually we are looking for a
box with AI, you know, and it worked very well.
But sometimes I have seen pictures where the box was
(33:31):
flipped and there was a lot of carrot, you know,
the green carrot, and like, yes, AI was a little
confused that you know, doesn't look like a box, you know.
So then then you have to then you have to
kind of employ someone who is really kind of solving
all the EDU cases. And exactly as you said, it's
it's it's a little different, you know, probably you know
kind of maybe it's like more value for the employee,
(33:55):
more valued for the employee, and I think it's seriously,
if you take you warehouses. They are well structured, and
that is one of the reasons why automation is strong.
They're automotively historically you or very strong. But we will
see more and more in potentially you know, restaurants everywhere,
like probably everywhere. When with human it's even more. But
(34:17):
it's still the same, you know, self drawing cars. It's
just different type of robot. You know, it's exactly the
same guys in Google and everywhere. They are solving exactly
the same issues as we are, you know, and there's
usually uh, you know, someone behind the scenes, probably probably
kind of managing entire fleet or fleet of fleets, you know,
(34:38):
or and on and on. So there's someone who is
helping those robots. Not always you know, like in many
cases not needed. In many cases it's simple, but sometimes
you have to do it. And I think that is
how do they like if someone would tell me that
that this would happen, you know, when I was a child, like, yes,
robot technicians would be potentially one of the top job.
(35:00):
It's actually pretty cool. I know that is valuable job,
and I really hope that it will actually happen, you know,
from this viewpoint. And so there's and it's so operational,
then there's more like you know, spare parts, maintenance and
all these so that is even more potentially technical and
that is also needed. You know, it's still mechanics, it's
(35:22):
still you know, electric you know, electrical things and so on.
So so there's a lot of things that can over
time be replaced. You know, it's like all the predictive
maintenance and you could and there's a lot of these,
and I think even now it's happening. You know, all
all the companies that have such a technicians you and
we have them. And again I think it's pretty cool.
(35:44):
And you know, for larger customers, I actually expect that
we have those that they are solving these, you know,
for smaller customers, we provide the service. So I think
from this viewpoint, it is on the operational side and
also on the technical side, and it's creating a lot
of having very attractive jobs. You know, you are working
(36:05):
with cutting technology and and and you know, helping building
those you know, you could imagine that now you see
auto picker to two point oh, you know, that's how
we call it. But fundamentally it is revision number eight
maybe or something like that. You could eveine. We were
improving that over time. Now, so there's still as I said,
(36:29):
it's not only me, you know, is the entire company
an anti industry. Everybody is hunting efficiency. Everybody wants to
push that that that innovation further, and and that is
also creating you know, a lot of interesting opportunities. So yeah,
as I told you, robot technician will be as common
as as you know, plumber or or or I don't know,
(36:50):
like like electrician you know in your house. It's it's
it's the same.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
I agree, And I think one of the things that
that draws an interesting parallel here if we look back
at not necessarily distribution centers, but if we look at
production and we look back historically over the last hundred
years of what that workforce looked like in a production facility.
We had you know, people usually men who were in
(37:15):
these facilities, and they were you know, the engineers or
the repair guys, or the guys who worked on the machines.
And it wasn't robotic, but it was mechanical, and so
you know, they were the ones who were in charge
of maintaining this equipment and making sure that it worked throughout.
You know, the industrial boom in the twentieth or nineteenth
(37:36):
and twentieth centuries. So I think that this is just
the next evolution of that, where we're working on a
different type of machine. Maybe there's a different skill set needed,
but the crux of the matter is still the same
that we still need those individuals to help with industry.
It's not a replacement. It's simply a shift in roles
(38:00):
a little bit or a shift in responsibility that instead
of doing the function of the machine, they're maintaining the
machine so the machine can do the function and be
more efficient at it and safer because if the machine
is going up and picking up these heavy items, for instance,
you're you're mentioning the size of these pickers, they can
pick something that is much larger than a human or
(38:22):
even a team of humans could do safely on a
repeated basis.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
No, imagine forklift. You know, it's some kind of robot
from some viewpoint, you know of because you are usually
in control. They are also cell driving forklift, But ultimately
it's it's superhuman you know lifting, you know two tone ballet,
you know easily and yes, there's a I think from
some new point it's exactly the same as industry or revolution.
(38:50):
You know, there's like something that I think we should
study is kind of speed of change because with ailet's
much robotics, robotics is I think let's go it slow
enough for now, you know, But but I think AI
AI and and kind of software improvement software robots, you
(39:12):
know agents, those are software robots, you know. I think
that could be that could be quite fast. You know,
it's not the topic of today's discussions, but I like
to talk about it because I feel that, you know, what,
what if Microsoft Excel will be suddenly or people will
be suddenly five times faster, do we need all of
(39:32):
those people working with Excel spreadsheets? Maybe no, you know. So,
so I think this digital revolution actually could be because
in many cases people talk about robotics and how how
how you know, how they are worried about the labor
I would say I wouldn't be worried about that one
that you know that that is that is slow enough
from some viewpoint. But but but here I think it
(39:53):
could be pretty quick and people have to think about it. Well.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
I think we have a great outlook on what the
labor market is going to be looking like and how
robotics and automation will will play a role in that.
Let's say that labor availability continues to shrink, We're facing
these same issues in the next five years. So what
role will the autopicker two point zero the giraffe play
(40:19):
in ensuring resilience and that operational continuity through you know
hills and valleys of that labor uh shortage availability ups
and downs. How are how our business is going to
achieve continuity with this type of technology?
Speaker 1 (40:37):
From many viewpoints, you could tell that humans are extremely flexible,
you know, the most flexible you can get. You know
that that is with robotics. I think you have to
understand the system to some extent. But if you understand it,
then you can you can you are probably safer and
(40:58):
and kind of kind of each just easier to predict
because you know, if you know the system next time
is doing the same what it did yesterday, you know,
there's no surprises mostly no surprises. And and there are
you know, features like for example, we introduced last year.
We call it overnight picking. So there are some human
pickable items, but okay, we can pick them in the morning.
(41:22):
You know, when pickers are coming to the to the
G two P stations, but all the robotic pickable items
in many cases, you know, like we have seen examples
where it's ninety five percent. We see examples when it's
sixty five percent. You know, typically I would say, let's
say seventy seventy five percent it's robot pickable. We can
still run those robots overnight, and you could imagine this
(41:43):
is helping you quite a lot, you know, suddenly in
the morning, potentially let's say, I know, sixty seventy percent
of the job is done. From some viewpoints, you know,
you just kind of top all the all the all
the orders with the human peaks. So there's there's a
lot of tricks that and you know that is really
lights out the warehouse, you know, during the night, like
there's potentially zero people, you know. So so from this viewpoint,
(42:06):
I think this is giving you again some kind of superpower,
you know, and as we know that it is very
common super power of robots. Yes, they can work free shifts,
and they are not you know, kind of peace or
how to tell it. You know, they are not angry,
they are not you know, they're very happy with with it.
(42:27):
Of course, there are some weird or something you know, yes,
but but still that is very very small text you
have to pay for having, you know, potentially potentially lights
out the warehouse over free shifts. Yes, that is you know,
I would say, still we are not there. You know,
you need still someone there. But I think I think,
(42:47):
like again, if you know the tool, you can use
it very well, and probably you are you are, it's
much safer and and and also also you mentioned you
know ups and downs, so I think easily what can
happen is that for some reason the season is not
as good as we expected and so on. So then
there's this is more like a business innovation. I would
(43:10):
call it. You know, all the robotics as as service
and all these, but you have sometimes, you know, pretty
good flexibility. You can tell that, Okay, I'm going to
rent additional ten robots. Now, you know you can probably
if you if you estimate at least somehow well, you
can pretty much match your your rate, you know. And
(43:30):
and in principle you know another thing above the rate,
probably you overpaid. So if you are able to exactly
match that curve over the entire year, let's say, yes,
you are saving money, you know, because because probably you
you can predict let's say three months period should be okay,
you see some trend and that really means that, yes,
(43:53):
you are again saving and kind of your company is
more robust. You know you you you are not you
are paying for their performance you really needed. You're probably
or abidized slightly better. Great.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Yeah, and I so I've been in a facility that
you're talking about where they're they've got the picking taking place,
the robotic picking taking place at night, and then the
workers arrive in the morning and they've, like you said,
sixty percent of the work is done. All they have
to do is finish off the processing of these orders
and you know, get them over to you know, whether
it's it's cartonizing or palletizing these orders, you know, getting
(44:30):
them sent out. But all of the heavy work is done,
and so then you've got the humans for the more
dynamic things, the things that need a thinking, breathing person
paying attention to this order. Because you know, that's I
think there's a balance there when it comes to robotics
and automation within these types of facilities. Is when when
(44:51):
companies are trying to find a solution to solve whatever
problem in their facility, one of the things that they're
always trying to do is improve their customer satisfaction. At
the bottom of everything is serving their customers better and
more efficiently. And sometimes efficiency is not the better solution.
(45:13):
Sometimes you need more hands on human customer service. And
I think that this hybrid approach of having robots picking
throughout you know, a third shift or even a second
shift when it's more expensive to have humans on site,
this is a great way to show how that can
balance you maintain your your customer service rigor and having humans,
(45:38):
you know, participating in the in the work that's being done,
but you leave a lot of the heavy, repeatable and
non value add to the technology that's capable of achieving that,
and freeing up your human capital for the things where
humans are truly required.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
I just came to my mind, you know, for example,
misspeaks with humans, it's it's it's very difficult to make
sure that you are not sending wrong items to the customers,
and and again it's a training and so on and
so on. But just again, we are not machines. We
do mistakes, you know, and it's it's natural, you know,
(46:19):
when you pick item number ten thousand in the given day. Yes,
it's okay to do a mistake, you know, it's perfectly fine.
But again here, you know, we have seen customers who
were able to improve these by some combination, you know,
and and robots in principle they do very little systematic
(46:41):
mistakes or how to tell, you know, they are not
going to pick wrong items. But we have seen, you know,
things like there are two boxes glued together, so we
pick one, the one is below so you don't even
see it, so you actually pick two, you know, you
do double pick yes, and then pecker, you know, picker
probably can understand, Okay, this looks a little suspicious. You know,
(47:02):
it's two boxes good together, so he's checking and probably
you know, fixing that. And ultimately we have seen that
easily people can do four to five times lower amount
of misspeaks, which is a big deal if you know
all the returns and all the costs. The reality to that,
and plus I would say even probably bigger piece of
it is that your customer is not a happy emailer.
(47:23):
So from this viewpoint, I would say it's obvious choice,
you know, like, there's there's no better combination.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
So beyond automation, which we've talked about, a lot today.
What strategies do you see some of these companies using
to mitigate the labor challenges over the next five to
ten years besides robotic picking.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
That I think the difficult question because I would naturally
answer that, you know, automated one more. But but I
would say that exactly as we already told it. I
think if there's any chance to attract better talent, it
will always help that company, you know, Like I'm always
(48:04):
telling that that, you know, there's I'm always telling everybody
like hire ten out ten out of ten. You know,
people you know like that, if you hire nine out
of ten, you are still perfectly fine, you know, but
but you have to have that very high standard. And
I think this is very important also for the future
that you know, technology and AI is going to penetrate
(48:29):
more and more. It's it's super clear. And and I
think having that talent that that can utilize these tools
automation AI, you know, better w M as anything connected
to these, I think that is what is going to
grow those companies. And and and ultimately it is competitive market.
(48:50):
You know, they you know, three pls, all of them,
like they have to they have to have the best
customer service, the fastest possible fulfillment, you know, all of
those parts. It's clear that you know, in ten years,
I can easily imagine that you would expect the Amazon
in five hours. I think it will happen, you know,
(49:11):
probably not the entire portfolio, but I think it will happen,
probably maybe even three hours. And companies will need a
kind of kind of you know, people who can utilize
those tools. And I think I would always recommend that
that you know, it is it is not so simple
(49:33):
to attract the talent, but you have to do anything
you can to get the best talent. I would say
that that is the best guidance.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
I guess well, I agree. Thank you so much John
for joining us today for this discussion. As labor pressures persist,
the future of warehousing will hinge on finding that ideal
balance between human talent and intelligent automation. So thank you
for showing us how some of these innovations and technology
can ease today's workforce challenges while building stronger and more
(50:03):
resilient operations for the future. To our listeners, if you
found today's episode valuable, be sure to hit the subscribe
button so you never miss an episode and If you're
interested in being a guest on our show, you can
reach me at podcast at meboch dot com at any time.
Thanks for listening to speaking of supply chain
Everybody wants to push the innovation further, and that is
also creating, you know, a lot of interesting opportunities. Robot
technician will be as common as plumber or electrician in
your house is the same.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I agree, and I think one of the things that
draws an interesting parallel here if we look back at production,
and we look back historically over the last hundred years,
we had people, usually men, who were in these facilities,
and they were the engineers or the repair guys, or
the guys who worked on the machines, and they were
the ones who were in charge of maintaining this equipment
(00:34):
and making sure that it worked. So I think that
this is just the next evolution of that. Hello and
welcome to Speaking of Supply Chain, where we explore trends,
current events, and innovations impacting the logistics and supply chain industries.
I'm your host, Ellen Wood. Labor shortages, high turnover and
(00:55):
safety risks continue to challenge warehouses, with some facilities seeing
annual turnover rates above forty percent. At the same time,
demand for faster, more reliable fulfillment has never been greater.
I'm joined today by doctor jan Jishka to explore how
bright pick is using robotics and AI not just to
boost efficiency, but to create safer, more sustainable, and more
(01:18):
engaging workplaces for the people who keep supply chains moving.
Welcome ya, thank you. It's great to have you here today.
Before we get started, let's jump into our icebreaker, and
today's question is as a child, what did you want
to be when you grew up?
Speaker 1 (01:36):
So I don't remember exactly, but my mother told me
that when I was really young, I told something like
I was very impressed by, you know, trash man and
the you know, I think that the mechanical car was
very interesting to me or something like that. So the
very first one later, I think I promised to my
(01:58):
parents that I will I will paint a picture and
solid for one million. The second so it looks like,
you know, the ambition was up and down.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, you know what, I can understand that I have
little boys myself, and anything with a big truck that
moves big things, whether it's construction equipment or the trash truck,
they are very excited about that. So I feel like
that seems pretty reasonable for all little boys they want
to drive the big trucks. Let's see for myself when
I was really little. I mean, of course, when you're
(02:33):
when you're very small, you have all sorts of dreams.
But once I was actually thinking about realistically what I
wanted to do, I wanted to be an art teacher
at the at the elementary or you know, an primary
school level. I wanted to be an art teacher, and
I started pursuing that career and then realized very quickly
(02:54):
that I would not be I don't have the patience
to be a teacher. I love art and I love kids.
I love my kids. I love doing art, but trying
to turn it into a profession was just not going
to work for me. So I had to abandon that
fairly early. And then I thought I might be a
marine biologist for a while. But yeah, I don't know
(03:17):
why that kind of fell by the wayside. I think
life just, you know, started taking me in a different direction,
and I really enjoyed some of the other things I
was doing, so I just kind of dropped that one.
There wasn't any you know, big dramatic thing like there
was with trying to be an art teacher. But yeah,
I've explored a lot of different careers over over the
(03:38):
time that I've been working. But now I think that
what we what were interested in as small children gives
a lot of insight into where our mind is looking.
So let's see if we can get into some of
those technical aspects of big trucks that appealed to you
so early in your childhood. In our discussion today, which
(03:58):
is about robotic picking and using robots within the four
walls of a facility, mostly fulfillment centers, but you know
there is the opportunity in just regular warehouses as opposed
to giant dcs. So let's talk a little bit about
some of the labor issues that are affecting warehouses today.
(04:20):
And I know that my information is mainly about the US,
but I know some of these things are universal and
globally applicable. So labor shortage, I was talking about it
just a minute ago. And sometimes those rates, those turnover
rates are as high as forty percent, and it's becoming
very difficult for especially US companies to employ people who
(04:43):
want to work in a warehouse or a fulfillment center.
And there are a lot of different reasons for it,
and we could get into those, but I think the
net of that conversation is it's not going to change.
We're not going to all of a sudden get this
generation of workers who want these more manual positions, who
(05:03):
want this you know, it's heavy work, it's physical work,
and I think as a society we're starting to move
away from some of those types of professions with the
advent of some of this technology that is available. So
from your perspective, is there anything else that's driving that
gap other than the labor market pulling away from those
(05:26):
more manual types of job positions.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So in general, I would compare it directly to you know,
agriculture and industryal revolution. It's very very similar from some viewpoint, Like,
you know, even one hundred years ago, still there was
a lot of people working in agriculture. Today it's very
little and and yes, people have to invent machines to
kind of solve that issue to some extent. But again,
(05:52):
solving that issue is pulling that those people out of
those jobs even more from some viewpoints. So I would
say it is part actually chicken egg, but definitely the
primary driver is exactly as you're told. It's just people today.
You know, in many cases, I tell that today everybody
wants to be YouTube ery. So that is still you know,
(06:14):
kind of much more attractive job compared to you know, walking.
I think in many cases it's uh, you know, five
even maybe maybe ten miles per day. In many cases
in manual fulfillment centers, it's not really you know, in
principle your boss is hunting that pickerate. There's not much
(06:37):
fun into it. You know. It's probably from like mentally,
it's a pretty simple job from some viewpoint. Physically it's
quite difficult. It's very rapy table and and I just
feel like there's not much sunlight in those warehouses. You know,
there's I would say a lot of aspects and people
don't see it. In many cases warehouses are kind of clean.
(06:58):
It''s not terrible, but it's not exactly fancy office space,
you know. So I would say there's a lot of
small details that simply add up and and it's simply
not attractive, you know. And if we would and we
don't need to do that, but if we would do
some kind of pool like, we would get clearly clear results.
(07:20):
And the result is you know, if you if you
open today, you know, indeed or glass door or whatever,
any of these platforms, probably there's like between fifty to
one hundred thousand open positions, and that is specifically wair
house speaker. You know, it's not a fair house worker
or something, it's warehouse speaker. And it's really high number.
And and this number is so to some extent we
(07:44):
increase automation, but it's still kind of little from some viewpoint.
And I remember I'm checking the number, you know, maybe
each quarter, and it's kind of the same. Of course,
during the peak season is even higher, you know, when
Amazon and Walmart and other companies are hire even more.
But it's simply a huge number of people. And and
(08:05):
as you say, like like it's definitely is not going
to improve, and I would say it's clear it's going
to be worse. You know, it's like it's obviate that
it's going to be worse. And plus there's also different
factors like in many cases you want to have a
warehouse outside of the city, if your last mile allows
that it's outside of the city, potentially quite far around
(08:28):
the city. Again, you know, the other adding another argument
like I have seen actually people really organizing a special
bus tours for those workers to even get them there,
you know, so it's like a special line in principle,
so and and maybe as you said, forst and Plant,
(08:50):
I can compare Asia, I don't know much, but the
Europe and the US I can compare quite well. And
I think it's almost exactly the same. The only difference
I probably see mainly in let's say Central Europe Germany,
is that there's a lot of people from more like
Eastern Europe, you know, because it's more or less free market,
(09:12):
you know, labor market. Of course, there are some limitations,
but it's it's kind of easy, and those people usually
would would earn let's say, half maybe third of the
salary in their original country, so it's kind of simple
to Sometimes they even travel like regularly, you know, for
example to Germany and so on. On the other side,
(09:34):
we see that German companies they are they are moving
their warehouses for example, to each other public or Poland
or whatever, Slovakia and so on. So it's kind of
people are trying to solve that problem, and it's partially
about cost efficiency. But I would say that is in
(09:55):
principle totally secondary. You know, I remember very well, you know,
I have been I don't know, maybe fifty warehouses and
and and maybe warehouse number ten I have ever seen.
I remember the manager telling me that, yeah, I'm so tired.
I was like, okay, well what is wrong? And he's like,
I'm doing interview number I don't know, twenty today or
(10:18):
something like that. You know, looks like his on the
main job was he was like a manager in all
the given very house and looked like he's spending a
lot of time with interviews. And he was really telling
that and it's almost baste of time. Because I hire someone,
the chance they will show up is fifty percent. You know,
(10:39):
it was not fifty you know, he was kidding, but
I think he was. He meant like maybe ten percent
they don't show up, which is still very high. You know,
if you if you have all that effort, maybe you
see ten people. Then you say like and then the
guy is not, you know, showing up. I think it's
really almost you know, you describe it well that the
(11:00):
turnover is forty percent, you kind of you know, replaces
all the people so often. Oh yeah, I would say,
how to tell it from A big part is a
motivation of those managers. You know, of course it's the
owner of the warehouse. But ultimately I think it's just
very difficult for those managers.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, I think there are a number of factors that
affect the volatility of that, whether it's the seasonality where
people people need jobs all year around, not just when
the employers need workers, and so you know, that's a
detriment to an employee for you know, even signing up
for that type of labor knowing that it's temporary, or
you know, knowing that it is that. I don't want
(11:45):
to say that that these types of facilities are are
uncomfortable or or unpretty to work in. I mean, it's
it's a warehouse. It is what it is. But it's
it's honest work. It pays well for those who who
want to, you know, participate in it. But you know,
to your point, when labor is scarce in a particular area,
(12:06):
sometimes that it ought to be a factor when companies
are building their facilities. It's it's clearly something that they
need to address in that location evaluation. However, things change
over time and if that, you know, local community disperses
and then that facility is left without labor, they're kind
(12:29):
of in a tough situation looking at potentially moving their
entire location to where the labor is or having to
come up with a different solution, whether the labor has left,
whether the labor in the area is not interested. Automation
is a solution, and that's where bright pick comes in.
So I think when we start looking at some of
(12:53):
these improvements and reducing that dependence on the manual picking
and we start bringing in some automation, does it allow
them to you know, work alongside the automation. What does
it do in terms of you know, safety and security
or accuracy for that warehouse, Because that is a very
big decision to have to come to to start replacing
(13:15):
part of your workforce with an automated solution. And these
I mean this is not you know, some some small solution.
This is this is a major undertaking. So I know
companies need to do their due diligence and understand what
the costs are going to be. You know, where are
they able to recoup some of that in whether it's
(13:36):
a direct cost or an indirect cost like employee safety.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
I think you know, for me, I have seen it
in many cases. You know, it's either our automation, different
types of automation. Before I work more for automotive. You know,
similar story from some Vipan and I think the major
point for me is that they always keep the best people,
you know, the people who are probably longer with the company,
(14:01):
people who who who had you know, pretty good pickert,
who who was kind of active, engaged, and ultimately I
feel like, okay, that's a that's a great news from
some viewpoint, you know that it's nobody is really I
think the best pickers. You know, it's like it's clearly
the some kind of assets they have, you know, and
they're very proud probably and and and that that means
(14:26):
we are potentially improving that the job for for those
who were engaged and who wanted to help, you know,
in that given warehouse. So from this weep and I
think it's it's it's pretty good in terms of you know,
the all the walking distance and these I would say
it's obvious that they suddenly have to walk muchulized. That's
kind of obvious, you know. Benefit We always explore that
(14:48):
for example, when you have G two P station or
or you do resktock of our system or any of these, uh,
you still have to be there either you know, for
ours with some break or you know, maybe even seven hours.
I'm not sure you know, depends on the country and
then the rules. So you know, in many case we
also explore like it has to be at least somehow ergonomic,
(15:12):
you know, because still it's usually standing, not sitting, you know,
so it's usual standing. So in many cases we even
kind of intentionally introduce few steps between the peaks because
I think just standing, you know, I would hate it.
So in many cases I think doing those you know,
two steps left, two STAPs right. I think it in
(15:34):
principle it's a good thing, you know, because at least
you are moving. And and also I would say you
are probably adjusting your posture or how to tell it,
you know, it's it's kind of because because otherwise you
are probably leaning, you know, in that one spot here
you have to walk, and walking is actually very you know,
good for your you know, how you stand or how
(15:54):
to tell it. So from the oop, and I think
there's a lot of small details that could be of
course improved. You know, It's not like suddenly it's you know,
pure heaven and you like, it's still the same very house.
It's still you know, the same environment and so on,
still not so much sunlight. But but I think what
they really appreciate is I think suddenly they are working
(16:16):
with you know, in our case like really cutting the
high end robot. We also try to be you know,
more more human. Let's call it. You know, every robot
has its name, you know, so they they really like it,
you know, they call it like okay, Carl, you know whatever, James,
you know, and so on and so on, so uh
(16:37):
and and pluss our robots are are you know, collaborative,
so they are really working in the same environment. After
Still you have to be careful. It cannot you know,
jump from the wreck in front of the robot and
similar things. But I think it's still very you know
safe and and and from this viewpoint it's not so visible.
(16:57):
But but again that was another manager telling me once
that they have some kind of injury almost every day
and it's like, okay, what is happening. It's just people walking,
you know, what is what is wrong? And he's like, okay,
but they are pulling or pushing you know, big wreck.
You know, it could be even fifty kilograms maybe even
more so it cannot stop so quickly and it's mainly
(17:19):
you know traffic jam, like it's people suddenly in one
spot you know, someone is behind the corner just jumping
in front of your card, you are hitting him with
the card or you know, just maybe falling. It was
not like you know, mortal you know some some some
crazy things. It was it was really simple things. But
(17:40):
he told that, yes, we have small injuries almost every day. Yeah,
and I was a little surprised. And yes, it's it's
suddenly much easier with robots because kind of the traffic
jam is mostly between the robots. Suddenly, you know, there's
much less humans and they are there, I would say,
much better organized. You know, they are either in the
(18:01):
grip to person station or close to restore station or somewhere.
So it's suddenly, you know, yes, not so not so dense,
and I would say it is definitely lowering the chance
of injury.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
All right, so let's talk a little bit more about
the uh the bright pic Giraffe, which is a new
storage density solution and it increases that density by up
to three times if I have that correct. So what
does that translate into in terms of reduction of labor
(18:39):
needs when you've got that's that robotic, that automatic storage
solution that's going to go and pick from that location
you've got that density. So obviously our listeners out there
probably understand the difference between a manual warehouse and an
automated warehouse. Hopefully they've they've seen an example of both.
I know I have, you know, manual warehouses, you've got
(19:02):
a much wider aisle, so you're spending a lot of
space on you know, the ability to move within that facility,
whether you need a forklift, whether you've got a manual
palette jack or anything of that sort, you have to
be able to maneuver. Whereas within the automated facilities and
these very highly automated facilities, that robot whether it's Carl
(19:24):
or James or whatever you name it, so that you
can make the repair to the right one when it
needs it and differentiate between the various components. You know,
those need a very a much smaller space in order
to go up so that that racking aisle is is
much more condensed and you're able to fit much more
in that in that square footage because you have this
(19:45):
robot that doesn't need all of that maneuverability. So when
we're looking at these and looking at this one specifically,
where are we looking in terms of that labor reduction
or optimizing how much time HU means spend in that area,
and is is that a genuine ROI or is it
(20:07):
just a trade off?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Great question, So how exactly as we described it, it's impressible.
In development of giraffe, the kind of the biggest challenge
was that we wanted to have still the narrow aisle
out topicker is three three meter tall and the aisle
is I think ninety meters or something like the ninety
two ninety four depending on the you know, how flat
(20:32):
is the surface actually the flop floor, I mean, And
here the challenge was that, okay, we want to go
to six meters. So suddenly you see that the base
is compared to to how tall is the robot, it's
one to six, you know, more than one to six.
So but we we we we were able to still
(20:53):
make it. It was not simple, but we were able
to make it. And that means those us are still
very narrow. And I would even say that for humans
it's it's like borderline comfort table, if you if you
can imagine, it's really not not much, but you know,
there's no motivation for people to be there. You know,
mostly you know this part is kind of fully automated.
(21:13):
You know, there's no point for people to be there.
Uh so uh, the kind of im mediate you know,
the outcome is that when when you when you are
two times taller, kind of the era you use is
two times smaller, and and that is of course super
difficult with with humans. Like either you are building completely
(21:36):
new mezzagine and so like another floor which is usually
quite expensive and and not exactly modular. You know, people
tell it's modular, but but usually it's there at least
ten years. Nobody's building you know, mezzagine for one year,
so uh and otherwise simply people cannot reach, you know,
(21:56):
even even three meters it's already challenging, you know, so
and then uncomfortable and then probably not very secure six
meters it's impossible. So so from this viewpoint, we say,
in some cases we tell that one goal could be that, okay,
let's improve efficiency of people. But in some cases you
(22:20):
could tell that, okay, it's it's like let's build superhuman
or out at all. You know, I want to reach
like a giraph you know, this is the name. You know,
there's the logic I want to reach so high, so
you know, sometimes we are kidding that we should build
cheetah now, you know, to be super fast, you know,
and so on. So so I think it is really
you know, now when you see all the humanoids and
(22:42):
you know, the entire trend, sometimes people look at the
problem like like, let's let's be as good as as
humans and or people. And I'm like, okay, I want
to go further, you know, I want to reach higher,
I want to be faster. And ultimately that's yes, it's like,
let's built super humans, you know, and an autopicker, and
(23:02):
you have to some extent, you know, of course, it's
it has some superhuman capabilities, you know. And I think
that's where ah, it's it's different, you know. It's it's
not you are not you are not replacing labor. You
know you are. You are you have solution that is
simply better than the previous one. And of course the
side effect is that you replace some some labor. And
(23:26):
I think that's perfectly fine. You know. We you know,
now you have washing machine, you have you know, dishwasher,
you know, you have all those nations that are improving
your life and and and simply that progress. It's interesting
that you know, people will never stop, you know, me
definitely not. You know, like I it's kind of my
you know, like I have to do it. You know,
(23:47):
when I see that someone could be done better or
more efficient, I want to do it. And nothing's perfectly fine.
And as we as we just concluded in the previous topic,
it's kind of in hand, you know, like people don't
want to have those jobs. We have solutions that is
solving that problem. Okay, perfect, how is it? Well?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
No, And you make an excellent point that you know,
as a society, we have automation to do the things
that we feel are drudgery. A dishwasher, a washing machine,
even a clothes dryer, which is even less prevalent because
a lot of people still use you know, lines to
dry their clothing. And but we do embrace those opportunities
(24:31):
to find the automation that releases us from having to
do the work that we don't want to do. And
I feel like that's what the statistics and the trends
are telling us in terms of warehouse labor, is people
aren't wanting to do this particular labor, so it makes
sense to have this automated solution. One thing I would question,
(24:51):
because we talked about it earlier in terms of a
disparity between different regions of the world different markets. For
one thing, in the UA, while we you know, do
have a forty percent turnover labor rate when it comes
to warehousing, we also have a ton of space. So
for companies looking to place a warehouse or a facility
(25:12):
in the US where they're going to manage their distribution,
they have square footage available to them at relatively reasonable cost.
I mean, there's always a cost, but the cost of
going out is typically a lot less than the cost
of going up. Now, in other areas of the world,
that's not as much of an option. We've got the
(25:33):
population density in Europe, we've got the Asian markets where
they're it's super dense, and so you know, when companies
are looking to have a fulfillment center near these largely
densely populated areas, they have to make this trade off.
First of all, they know that the people in the
cities are not as willing to do this type of labor,
(25:54):
and second, land availability is scarce, so going up makes
a lot more sense. And enter the giraffe and being
able to support that facility's aims and goals. So I
think when we talk about the concept of robots taking
jobs away from people, you know, what types of things
(26:16):
do you talk about with your clients when you're discussing
these types of technology implementations. You know, if there is
that pushback of you know, we don't want to take
jobs away from people, because that argument has to come
up more than once again.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Going back to the managers I was mentioning, I think
in many cases, maybe five six years ago it was
maybe a little different. But today I would say every
single manager I see or supply chain office here and
so on, I would say they are nobody's really discussing
(26:56):
if automation is kind of table or or efficient. I
would say we are probably over that period. And I
would say again going back to the hiring and training,
you know, we were not mentioning that all that trending necessary.
Then again, you know the guy is not showing up
and so on. So so I would say, it is
(27:17):
forcing almost everybody into into automation. And isn't that I
think again, maybe maybe ten years ago, five years ago technologies,
maybe we're not so major it was not so clear.
Today you can count it probably probably hundreds of thousands
(27:38):
of robots in their houses. Uh, you know Amazon itself,
it's it's already one million if I remember correctly. You know,
it's kind of funny. They are one of the largest
manufacturers of robots in the world, you know, Amazon, but
if you count all the rest, you know, including US,
it is already hundreds of towns of robots. And simply
(28:01):
it's proven. I feel that there's very little arguments against
the automation. And and even even again, maybe five years ago,
probably common row I was sometimes maybe even ten years
when when it was very complex, you know, big automation,
(28:23):
but probably it was suitable for maybe twenty years, so
it's okay. Then then people started to develop more kind
of compact quickly to deploy solutions and and and I
think that also plus, you know, like technological component motors
PLC is whatever, any any of those components, they are
cheaper riders. All of that is going down. And that
(28:46):
really means that today you can really get I would
say three years is in many cases simple, two years,
it is feasible in many cases. Plus you have robotics
as a service, you know, which is kind of in
mediate ROI from some point. So all of that I
would say, I really, I'm struggling to find, you know,
some some real arguments. I think. Still sometimes it's really
(29:09):
like it integration, you know, because it's for some reason
sometimes companies struggle with them. And and maybe still it
takes some time and some effort, and and and I
would say there's still some small risks connected to that.
I would say, it's pretty small. I like, we have
very good experience, you know, so so I do. But
(29:30):
but I understand, I understand that someone who never did
any automation, he he can still see automation as some
kind of risk. It's it's perfectly fun. And you know
that's why we are here, you know, as other other
players in the industry to convince them. But again, I
and you know, what I wanted to tell is that, honestly,
I haven't heard someone telling me that what we will
(29:53):
do like there was there was one case where it
was more like, let's really talk about you know, ergonomics,
you know, how to make it comfortable, how to and
all these I would say, they still deeply care about
the employees, you know that that is still perfectly fun.
And I would say, this is this is probably something
(30:15):
that we should solve. So long term, you know, like
like it should be still very very human or you know,
it should be and and I mean the collaboration, the
kind of kind of that feeling, you know, because you know,
we don't want people to be seen as a you know,
s kind of you know, terminator whatever you know it
(30:36):
should be. You know, ideally it is perceived as Okay,
this is helping me, is helping company. Uh, you know,
it's it's making that company probably more profitable, so probably
my job is maybe even more safe, and so on
and so on. I would say that's we need to
create good perception. But I think it's it's it's perfectly fun.
You know, over over the last five years, as I said,
(31:00):
it's default, and people really are not questioning aut to
mention anymore.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah, I think I've seen that as well, where the
idea of automation is less controversial in that regard because
it's not so much about the people, although you know,
we do want to make sure that people are employed. However,
I think one of the things that you just brought up,
and it kind of leads into my next question, is
(31:28):
how can companies use those robotics as part of a
broader labor strategy. So they're not just hiring those entry
level unskilled workers, but now they're looking to attract and
retain talent that can help move their organization forward toward
their own goals. So you were mentioning it being, you know,
(31:48):
an area where a lot of times that could be
the sticking point in getting an automated solution is having
the IT infrastructure in place. And this opens up the
opportunity for skilled individuals who who have these capabilities to
be able to come in and work alongside these technologies
in order to move the organization further, you know, in
(32:10):
their own aims. So what other parts of you know,
or what other areas can people be working alongside these
these technologies in these facilities. That's going to open up
the labor market for these companies exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
You know, that's a great question, right. I like this
one because you know, in many cases I talk about
it that you know, I'm really convinced that in the future,
one of the top positions, top jobs we will see
is you know, robot maintenance, robot technician. You know, even
today we have many of them, and and and simply
it's you know, it's like a manager of robots you know,
(32:50):
if you want to talk in human language or how
And partially it's it's really operational, you know, how to
help those robots to solve potentially something that is you know,
complicated or or kind of like h case that they
have never seen. You know. It's all also connected to
all the AI. You know, AI is working, works you
(33:10):
know very well. You know it like we do all
the picking. There's a lot of things where where you
can use it. But still, you know, I remember cases
where I don't know, we have seen you know, it
was a box and usually we are looking for a
box with AI, you know, and it worked very well.
But sometimes I have seen pictures where the box was
(33:31):
flipped and there was a lot of carrot, you know,
the green carrot, and like, yes, AI was a little
confused that you know, doesn't look like a box, you know.
So then then you have to then you have to
kind of employ someone who is really kind of solving
all the EDU cases. And exactly as you said, it's
it's it's a little different, you know, probably you know
kind of maybe it's like more value for the employee,
(33:55):
more valued for the employee, and I think it's seriously,
if you take you warehouses. They are well structured, and
that is one of the reasons why automation is strong.
They're automotively historically you or very strong. But we will
see more and more in potentially you know, restaurants everywhere,
like probably everywhere. When with human it's even more. But
(34:17):
it's still the same, you know, self drawing cars. It's
just different type of robot. You know, it's exactly the
same guys in Google and everywhere. They are solving exactly
the same issues as we are, you know, and there's
usually uh, you know, someone behind the scenes, probably probably
kind of managing entire fleet or fleet of fleets, you know,
(34:38):
or and on and on. So there's someone who is
helping those robots. Not always you know, like in many
cases not needed. In many cases it's simple, but sometimes
you have to do it. And I think that is
how do they like if someone would tell me that
that this would happen, you know, when I was a child, like, yes,
robot technicians would be potentially one of the top job.
(35:00):
It's actually pretty cool. I know that is valuable job,
and I really hope that it will actually happen, you know,
from this viewpoint. And so there's and it's so operational,
then there's more like you know, spare parts, maintenance and
all these so that is even more potentially technical and
that is also needed. You know, it's still mechanics, it's
(35:22):
still you know, electric you know, electrical things and so on.
So so there's a lot of things that can over
time be replaced. You know, it's like all the predictive
maintenance and you could and there's a lot of these,
and I think even now it's happening. You know, all
all the companies that have such a technicians you and
we have them. And again I think it's pretty cool.
(35:44):
And you know, for larger customers, I actually expect that
we have those that they are solving these, you know,
for smaller customers, we provide the service. So I think
from this viewpoint, it is on the operational side and
also on the technical side, and it's creating a lot
of having very attractive jobs. You know, you are working
(36:05):
with cutting technology and and and you know, helping building
those you know, you could imagine that now you see
auto picker to two point oh, you know, that's how
we call it. But fundamentally it is revision number eight
maybe or something like that. You could eveine. We were
improving that over time. Now, so there's still as I said,
(36:29):
it's not only me, you know, is the entire company
an anti industry. Everybody is hunting efficiency. Everybody wants to
push that that that innovation further, and and that is
also creating you know, a lot of interesting opportunities. So yeah,
as I told you, robot technician will be as common
as as you know, plumber or or or I don't know,
(36:50):
like like electrician you know in your house. It's it's
it's the same.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
I agree, And I think one of the things that
that draws an interesting parallel here if we look back
at not necessarily distribution centers, but if we look at
production and we look back historically over the last hundred
years of what that workforce looked like in a production facility.
We had you know, people usually men who were in
(37:15):
these facilities, and they were you know, the engineers or
the repair guys, or the guys who worked on the machines.
And it wasn't robotic, but it was mechanical, and so
you know, they were the ones who were in charge
of maintaining this equipment and making sure that it worked throughout.
You know, the industrial boom in the twentieth or nineteenth
(37:36):
and twentieth centuries. So I think that this is just
the next evolution of that, where we're working on a
different type of machine. Maybe there's a different skill set needed,
but the crux of the matter is still the same
that we still need those individuals to help with industry.
It's not a replacement. It's simply a shift in roles
(38:00):
a little bit or a shift in responsibility that instead
of doing the function of the machine, they're maintaining the
machine so the machine can do the function and be
more efficient at it and safer because if the machine
is going up and picking up these heavy items, for instance,
you're you're mentioning the size of these pickers, they can
pick something that is much larger than a human or
(38:22):
even a team of humans could do safely on a
repeated basis.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
No, imagine forklift. You know, it's some kind of robot
from some viewpoint, you know of because you are usually
in control. They are also cell driving forklift, But ultimately
it's it's superhuman you know lifting, you know two tone ballet,
you know easily and yes, there's a I think from
some new point it's exactly the same as industry or revolution.
(38:50):
You know, there's like something that I think we should
study is kind of speed of change because with ailet's
much robotics, robotics is I think let's go it slow
enough for now, you know, But but I think AI
AI and and kind of software improvement software robots, you
(39:12):
know agents, those are software robots, you know. I think
that could be that could be quite fast. You know,
it's not the topic of today's discussions, but I like
to talk about it because I feel that, you know, what,
what if Microsoft Excel will be suddenly or people will
be suddenly five times faster, do we need all of
(39:32):
those people working with Excel spreadsheets? Maybe no, you know. So,
so I think this digital revolution actually could be because
in many cases people talk about robotics and how how
how you know, how they are worried about the labor
I would say I wouldn't be worried about that one
that you know that that is that is slow enough
from some viewpoint. But but but here I think it
(39:53):
could be pretty quick and people have to think about it. Well.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
I think we have a great outlook on what the
labor market is going to be looking like and how
robotics and automation will will play a role in that.
Let's say that labor availability continues to shrink, We're facing
these same issues in the next five years. So what
role will the autopicker two point zero the giraffe play
(40:19):
in ensuring resilience and that operational continuity through you know
hills and valleys of that labor uh shortage availability ups
and downs. How are how our business is going to
achieve continuity with this type of technology?
Speaker 1 (40:37):
From many viewpoints, you could tell that humans are extremely flexible,
you know, the most flexible you can get. You know
that that is with robotics. I think you have to
understand the system to some extent. But if you understand it,
then you can you can you are probably safer and
(40:58):
and kind of kind of each just easier to predict
because you know, if you know the system next time
is doing the same what it did yesterday, you know,
there's no surprises mostly no surprises. And and there are
you know, features like for example, we introduced last year.
We call it overnight picking. So there are some human
pickable items, but okay, we can pick them in the morning.
(41:22):
You know, when pickers are coming to the to the
G two P stations, but all the robotic pickable items
in many cases, you know, like we have seen examples
where it's ninety five percent. We see examples when it's
sixty five percent. You know, typically I would say, let's
say seventy seventy five percent it's robot pickable. We can
still run those robots overnight, and you could imagine this
(41:43):
is helping you quite a lot, you know, suddenly in
the morning, potentially let's say, I know, sixty seventy percent
of the job is done. From some viewpoints, you know,
you just kind of top all the all the all
the orders with the human peaks. So there's there's a
lot of tricks that and you know that is really
lights out the warehouse, you know, during the night, like
there's potentially zero people, you know. So so from this viewpoint,
(42:06):
I think this is giving you again some kind of superpower,
you know, and as we know that it is very
common super power of robots. Yes, they can work free shifts,
and they are not you know, kind of peace or
how to tell it. You know, they are not angry,
they are not you know, they're very happy with with it.
(42:27):
Of course, there are some weird or something you know, yes,
but but still that is very very small text you
have to pay for having, you know, potentially potentially lights
out the warehouse over free shifts. Yes, that is you know,
I would say, still we are not there. You know,
you need still someone there. But I think I think,
(42:47):
like again, if you know the tool, you can use
it very well, and probably you are you are, it's
much safer and and and also also you mentioned you
know ups and downs, so I think easily what can
happen is that for some reason the season is not
as good as we expected and so on. So then
there's this is more like a business innovation. I would
(43:10):
call it. You know, all the robotics as as service
and all these, but you have sometimes, you know, pretty
good flexibility. You can tell that, Okay, I'm going to
rent additional ten robots. Now, you know you can probably
if you if you estimate at least somehow well, you
can pretty much match your your rate, you know. And
(43:30):
and in principle you know another thing above the rate,
probably you overpaid. So if you are able to exactly
match that curve over the entire year, let's say, yes,
you are saving money, you know, because because probably you
you can predict let's say three months period should be okay,
you see some trend and that really means that, yes,
(43:53):
you are again saving and kind of your company is
more robust. You know you you you are not you
are paying for their performance you really needed. You're probably
or abidized slightly better. Great.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Yeah, and I so I've been in a facility that
you're talking about where they're they've got the picking taking place,
the robotic picking taking place at night, and then the
workers arrive in the morning and they've, like you said,
sixty percent of the work is done. All they have
to do is finish off the processing of these orders
and you know, get them over to you know, whether
it's it's cartonizing or palletizing these orders, you know, getting
(44:30):
them sent out. But all of the heavy work is done,
and so then you've got the humans for the more
dynamic things, the things that need a thinking, breathing person
paying attention to this order. Because you know, that's I
think there's a balance there when it comes to robotics
and automation within these types of facilities. Is when when
(44:51):
companies are trying to find a solution to solve whatever
problem in their facility, one of the things that they're
always trying to do is improve their customer satisfaction. At
the bottom of everything is serving their customers better and
more efficiently. And sometimes efficiency is not the better solution.
(45:13):
Sometimes you need more hands on human customer service. And
I think that this hybrid approach of having robots picking
throughout you know, a third shift or even a second
shift when it's more expensive to have humans on site,
this is a great way to show how that can
balance you maintain your your customer service rigor and having humans,
(45:38):
you know, participating in the in the work that's being done,
but you leave a lot of the heavy, repeatable and
non value add to the technology that's capable of achieving that,
and freeing up your human capital for the things where
humans are truly required.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
I just came to my mind, you know, for example,
misspeaks with humans, it's it's it's very difficult to make
sure that you are not sending wrong items to the customers,
and and again it's a training and so on and
so on. But just again, we are not machines. We
do mistakes, you know, and it's it's natural, you know,
(46:19):
when you pick item number ten thousand in the given day. Yes,
it's okay to do a mistake, you know, it's perfectly fine.
But again here, you know, we have seen customers who
were able to improve these by some combination, you know,
and and robots in principle they do very little systematic
(46:41):
mistakes or how to tell, you know, they are not
going to pick wrong items. But we have seen, you know,
things like there are two boxes glued together, so we
pick one, the one is below so you don't even
see it, so you actually pick two, you know, you
do double pick yes, and then pecker, you know, picker
probably can understand, Okay, this looks a little suspicious. You know,
(47:02):
it's two boxes good together, so he's checking and probably
you know, fixing that. And ultimately we have seen that
easily people can do four to five times lower amount
of misspeaks, which is a big deal if you know
all the returns and all the costs. The reality to that,
and plus I would say even probably bigger piece of
it is that your customer is not a happy emailer.
(47:23):
So from this viewpoint, I would say it's obvious choice,
you know, like, there's there's no better combination.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
So beyond automation, which we've talked about, a lot today.
What strategies do you see some of these companies using
to mitigate the labor challenges over the next five to
ten years besides robotic picking.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
That I think the difficult question because I would naturally
answer that, you know, automated one more. But but I
would say that exactly as we already told it. I
think if there's any chance to attract better talent, it
will always help that company, you know, Like I'm always
(48:04):
telling that that, you know, there's I'm always telling everybody
like hire ten out ten out of ten. You know,
people you know like that, if you hire nine out
of ten, you are still perfectly fine, you know, but
but you have to have that very high standard. And
I think this is very important also for the future
that you know, technology and AI is going to penetrate
(48:29):
more and more. It's it's super clear. And and I
think having that talent that that can utilize these tools
automation AI, you know, better w M as anything connected
to these, I think that is what is going to
grow those companies. And and and ultimately it is competitive market.
(48:50):
You know, they you know, three pls, all of them,
like they have to they have to have the best
customer service, the fastest possible fulfillment, you know, all of
those parts. It's clear that you know, in ten years,
I can easily imagine that you would expect the Amazon
in five hours. I think it will happen, you know,
(49:11):
probably not the entire portfolio, but I think it will happen,
probably maybe even three hours. And companies will need a
kind of kind of you know, people who can utilize
those tools. And I think I would always recommend that
that you know, it is it is not so simple
(49:33):
to attract the talent, but you have to do anything
you can to get the best talent. I would say
that that is the best guidance.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
I guess well, I agree. Thank you so much John
for joining us today for this discussion. As labor pressures persist,
the future of warehousing will hinge on finding that ideal
balance between human talent and intelligent automation. So thank you
for showing us how some of these innovations and technology
can ease today's workforce challenges while building stronger and more
(50:03):
resilient operations for the future. To our listeners, if you
found today's episode valuable, be sure to hit the subscribe
button so you never miss an episode and If you're
interested in being a guest on our show, you can
reach me at podcast at meboch dot com at any time.
Thanks for listening to speaking of supply chain
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